February 10, 2025 • 58 mins
Ashlyn catches up with journalist, artist, author, and long time friend Brooke Baldwin. They talk about the mental health journey Brooke went on after leaving her job as an anchor at CNN and separating from her ex-husband. Brooke discusses the steps she took to get back to what she really loved after years of deprioritizing her own wants and needs.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey girl, Hey, welcome to my show.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I hope. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Thank you honey so much.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You're such a baller and all the ways, all the
good things.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Thank you everyone. The one and only Brooke Baldwin, the sweetest,
genuine human. I know that I was so lucky. Well,
I am so lucky to call you a friend, but
I was so lucky to host Late Night Late Never
Roy go heels, Everyone go heels, And I feel like
(00:45):
we were meant to be there.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It was a couple of years ago when we were,
for those who are not familiar with the best university
on the planet, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
where this one obviously crushed it on the soccer field,
and I just enjoyed going there, and so like we
invited to go co host this. Basically it's like the
beginning of basketball season, which is like the biggest.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
You wait late Night with Roy's like the second the
clock hits, these boys can train. Yeah, you just like
it's almost like an old school pep brow it is.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
We're like we're the pep rally leaders. And I just
remember meeting you and you have this like you had
those amazing off white Carolina high tops, which obviously I
went out and bought and literally laced orange and blue
because if Adelin Harris does, I did. And we just
bonded that night, like eating pizza late night we did
(01:36):
in China, Franklin Street, late night Franklin Street.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Also, I was so terrified. That's like the first time
I was ever really hosting anything. And You're like, yes,
oh girl, you got this, blah blah blah. I was like,
there are thirty thousand people here. I am uncomfortable. How
am I supposed to get everyone?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You're amazing, you were a natural.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, it's easy to have you by my side. Let's
just say that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
So what should we discuss.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Let's start from the beginning. Let's start from the beginning,
because you were such an important personality on CNN, and
I feel like you were You were in my living
room before I even knew you, and when we became
friends and you, you know, told me your story and
I got to read your book, Huddle. I think a
(02:20):
lot of parallels in our life in terms of what
you were doing and how you felt in a very
male dominated industry and Jesus Chris identity and then Trump
and all of these fucking things piling up. I just
want you to kind of bring me to the start
(02:45):
before we even get to CNN, and I like to
before we dive into the start of who Brooke Baldwin is.
I always say this, and I always ask this to
my guest, what was the moment in your life that
really split you wide open?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Ooh, coming in hot with the good questions.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It's just like, we gotta go there because I really
find that when people know the breaking point or the moment,
then you can really start unpacking the why.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Okay, so I'm going to tell the story I've definitely
never told in my life out loud. But when you
say broken wide open, you know, you know so much
goes back to childhood. And I remember, I think I
was like shopping in a mall with my mom. I'm
from Atlanta, and it was Christmas time and I was
maybe like in the fifth or the sixth grade, and
we were, you know, shopping for whatever head of Christmas.
(03:40):
And I remember there was this whole you know, Santa
Claus was in the mall. Santa Claus, the y Elves,
everyone else. And I remember seeing a little friend of
mine at the time who was an elf. And I
remember sitting on a bench not too far from her
with our shopping bags and looking over and then just
(04:00):
having this I don't know how else to describe it,
but this like deep knowing in my twelve year old,
thirteen year old body of I want to do big things.
I don't want to be the elf in the Santa
Claus mall setup like bless her for you know, wanting
(04:22):
to do that, but like I don't know what the
thing is going to be. But I know I'm going
to have a voice, and I know I want to
do big things. And my mother to this day still
references the part at the mall and the Santa Claus
and she was like, Brook, you knew, and I knew
you knew. I just didn't know what it was going
to be. And so from then I ended up at
(04:45):
Carolina to go to journalism school. That is why I went.
I mean, I'm from Atlanta, you know, CNN was like
two miles from my house. Ted Turner loom Large, I'd
go to the Braves games. We'd bring binoculars, not just
to see like you know that such a baseball fan,
like that whole team of ninety five when they won
the series. But all so, you know, looking for like
Jane fond On, Ted Turner, Turner Stadium, well icons total
(05:06):
and so it was like, okay, TV news. And then
I went to j school at Carolina and that just
like ripped me wide open. And I interned at CNN
and then interned at a couple of different TV stations
while I was there. I worked at the ABC affiliate
in Durham while we were seeing while I was a senior,
And that was the beginning of wanting to become a
TV news reporter, not having any clue. You know, when
(05:28):
you start on soccer, it's like, God, do you have
all these huge goals. I want to play, I want
to I want to win gold, I want to be
on the national team. But you never know. You just
have to have that faith in yourself. And I did
the same thing.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
There's no plan B. Everyone always talks about that. No,
I mean, when you're on a mission, nothing else matters.
And what I'll say is weirdly enough, so many of
my mentors were pushing me to go to the journalism school,
were they and I don't I don't think people realize
(05:59):
how first, how difficult it is to get into it,
and how prestigious it is and how well known it is.
It was like that. And the Business School, yeah, it
was like a big, big deal.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
And amazing it is.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I remember because Chris Dukarr, my goalkeeper coach at the time,
they would show up to my classes to make sure
I actually went. And I had this public speaking class
because honestly, it was just an easy elective for me. Yes,
I was up there and I had these note cards
and I was walking up and down the aisles of
(06:37):
the classroom and touching the desk and so performative. And
the teacher was just like, oh my god, this bitch
is wild. And then she was like I sat down
and she looked at me after class and she goes, well,
you have to turn in your note cards. It's twenty
percent of your grade, following like exactly what. And I
gave her like three blank note cards and she said,
(06:58):
you stood up there and pretend the whole time. I said, yeah,
I did.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Oh wow, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
You knew then.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I knew I would be sitting here, not really, but
here we are God.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Because these were planted there were you know, you're inner sparkle.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
You knew it, you had it and you're such a
natural though, Like that's right, It's just you're such a natural,
warm personality where you make people feel safe, and I
think that's invaluable.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Thank you, And I'd like to.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Hope that I give off that vibe. And I think
maybe that's why we are really really similar. So you
you land the job at CNN. Yes, and that's like
a big deal. That's a big deal. You said you
were down the road, you always knew that was the vision. Yeah,
once you got in there.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yes, Yes, what was it?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Like?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I stuck the landing. I worked in local news all
through my twenties and rolled the teleprompter with my foot
under the desk and worked all the holidays and really
sort of you know, sacrificed and then landed at CNN
in I was like twenty nine maybe, And I think
I got my own show around the age of thirty.
Like I was a thirty thirty year old young woman
hosting two live hours to myself literally like I'm going
(08:15):
to tell you all this now, but literally like learning
about the world. As I was sitting at the anchor desk.
Shit would flare up in Israel, shit would flare up
in the Middle East. Stuff would happen in you know,
in Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan, and it was like boof, teleprompter
goes blank. I need to be read in on what's
going on. And then I also, like you, like I
(08:36):
know how to channel the people who are watching. I'm
not the expert. I'm about to talk to a bunch
of experts. I need to know enough to you know,
connective tissue, to get from person AB to Z and
to just guide people through what's happening around the world.
And it was such a frickin' honor to be able
to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
But it had to be digestible for everyone to understand
and follow. And I think that's what people don't understand enough.
And how great you were at your job, thank you,
But what separates you is it's not like when you're
breaking things down for the general public who has no idea.
(09:15):
You do make it digestible where it's easy to understand
and follow, which is not always easy to do.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Right. Well, I think the audience is really smart, so
I never ever would think, oh, you know, this whole
notion of dumbing it down, it's just make it How
would I want to explain this thing that's happening with
Isis and Syria to my to my mother or my
best friend. Yeah, you know, how can I make it
palatable digestible? And why should they care about something that's
happening half a world away, you know, or what's been happening,
(09:44):
you know, in the United States. So like it was
an honor and a privilege to do that. I sat
in that seat all by myself and did that every
day for almost eleven years. Wow, almost eleven years, and
we covered everything. And I've been to the DMZ, I've
landed on an aircraft carrier. I've been on the Willie
Nelson tour bus and gotten some souvenir the few times. Okay,
(10:06):
you know, I've met some cool people and it was
amazing until it wasn't. Kind of wasn't.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
So talk to me about that. And not only that,
I'll say this before you even dive into that, because
I think what people I think what people are now
starting to realize. I know you're not necessarily in that
type of profession in this moment, but you carry it
with you in everything you do. You are an EmPATH.
(10:37):
I feel it every time I'm around the path, So
am I so that's why I really really connect with you.
And I think the vulnerability lately of journalists who are
finally just breaking and showing exactly who they are on air.
It's it's a breakthrough for me. It's exactly what you
(10:58):
and I are talking about. Just totally be wide open
and think about what you had to go through as
a journalist in a really, really difficult time, whether it's
the election, whether it's right before you know, the pandemic demic,
whether it was the war in Iraq, like so much
(11:18):
was going on in such a short amount of time.
You're young, you're in this new profession, like there has
to be a part of you that brought that home
with you all the time, and it had for someone
who's twenty nine and thirty years old, who I would
consider doesn't really know themselves that well yet they're not
in the best years of their life, and it's got
(11:40):
to be so fucking hard to go home who you
feel all of that for sure, and then you have
to button everything up and you have to play neutral
and you have to play about the you know, you
have to present the facts and it's not opinionated. It
can't be right, ye, I can't imagine the toll that
takes on a young woman.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Ooh ooh. Yes, I happened to anchor the two hours
in the late afternoon when kids would be getting out
of school, and I sat in that seat so many
times when there would be school shootings and mass shootings,
and I was always I became the person. I think
because of my empathy in my humanity that I became
(12:25):
the person I was always sent to like the worst
disasters involving, you know, the loss of human life, and
it was I I could feel it. It's like coming
up in my body right now. I can feel it,
you know. I can feel if I close my eyes
and think about going down to Parkland, Florida, or going
to Sandy Hook. And I mean, I have to say,
(12:46):
my colleagues, when you go to a place where that
many first graders are murdered and you're with such professional
colleagues who are all like, we're all wiping tears and
trying to be professional as we're interviewing firefighters and the
daughter of the principal who was murdered, and parents and
friends of parents and teachers and standing in front of
(13:07):
you know, I would have a producer say to me,
can you get to the can you get to the more?
Can you can you try to talk to someone you
know who's having to handle these these children, and you
know you have to say no at some point. But
I remember standing outside of this one building and seeing
this tiny white casket be rolled out. I was standing
with my photographer, my producer, and we just we just
stood there, and like, you know, it does take a toll,
(13:32):
and you do have to be a professional, and you
do go home and are flat on the floor. And
I would also add to that, even covering certain White Houses,
and I happen to be on for those four years
when those Sean Spicer White House briefings would be going on,
(13:52):
we'd have to ditch our show and go straight to
the White House and he'd be spewing lies. And I
covered this a liar for really five years, and it
definitely takes a toll. You know. I start to twitch
a little bit when I hear his voice. And it
was my whole life. But I'm proud of the work
(14:13):
I did. I'm proud of my professionalism and also now
like I'm proud to be amongst everyone else and be
able to be out and be myself and be free
and you know my have my outsides match my insides?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah? Absolutely? And after you left, which I can imagine
wasn't exactly the easy yeah, the easiest journey after dedicating
and sacrificing so much to your craft, How did you
handle that? Is that why you wrote huddle?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Is?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
What was? What was it like? You know, your identity
for so long was wrapped up in that, and then
all of a sudden, it's like the rugs pulled out
under you because you stopped being this yes woman that
everyone wanted you to be in this toxic culture that
you know that I can relate to. Is the shut
(15:12):
up and dribble? Yes, right, yes, So talk to me
about that because I can't imagine that was easy, but
I think it's important because you and I are disruptors.
You and I are trying to.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Never knew I was. I thought I was the good girl.
I'm from the South, Yes, I color in the lines,
and I never thought I would be a disruptor. And
now I like, thank you?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
How did you find your voice?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I wrote Huddle in the throes of covering the Trump
White House and feeling like I needed to do something
to fill my soul. And so I started running around
the country and my free time, which was not a
lot of free time, you know, and interviewing folks who played,
you know, some of the women on the NAT team,
(16:01):
you know, subirds, some of the Necho Gumake, some of
the women who play professional basketball. I talked to women,
congress women, more moderate women, congress women. And I talked
to teachers. I talked to Stacy Abrams, I talked to moms.
I talked to a lot of women. And what I
realized in sitting in those spaces was this word no.
(16:24):
And I started showing up differently at work, and the
expectation was to shut up and dribble a hondo. And
I was never this. I never was a squeaky wheel,
heaven forbid. But I definitely started speaking up a bit more.
And when the expectation is to shut up and dribble
and I instead want a different play, it's very easy
(16:47):
to be replaced. Let me just say that there's a
line of women and men as far back as you
can possibly see who'd be willing to, like, you know,
cut off their left arm to have the position I had.
And in the end, I knew, I knew I wasn't
in full alignment, just based upon how we were covering news.
I missed more traditional journalism. I missed a variety of
(17:07):
stories instead of like myopically covering this one man and
the way we did over and over and over and
over and over. And kudos to all the people who
remained there and who were going to have a lot
of work to do these next couple of years. I
have all the respect for them. But like in the end,
I knew I needed to go. But the way in
which I was essentially drop kicked out of my job
(17:29):
without cause, yeah, well I was a wreck. I was
a wreck. The way it was handled was abhorrent. And yeah,
that's why I wrote that piece finally in Vanity Fair
because I needed to like risk sort of everything and
a lot, like, you know, some money i'd made from
my own salary there and I wasn't supposed to speak up,
(17:50):
and I took a really fucking big risk and was
literally on my knees, not pouring out of my nose
like two days before they hit published at Vanity Fair
over that piece that I wrote. But I'm a truth teller, yeah,
and I had to tell the truth.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And I love that about you, and I think anyone
who is lucky enough to sit five minutes in your
presence knows that. And it's interesting having a front row
seat lately to your life and what you've done in
the past. I can't help but draw the parallel between
you writing Huddle Yes, which was the story of other people,
(18:29):
to finding your voice and writing about your own. This
is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris. We'll
be right back, So talk to me about that. Why,
(18:53):
what was the journey, what was the breaking point? What
was it that you needed to do, the soul searching
that took to really be confident enough to really put
it all out there, because that's a really brave thing
to do. And how did that impact your life, your
(19:14):
self worth, your relationship, the way you moved in the world.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
My God, you're gonna make me cry.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Oh sorry, honey.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I was always a journalist first and foremost for twenty years,
and when you're a journalist, you are not the center
of the story. It was my job for those years
to shine the light on someone else, to speak up
on behalf of someone else, and in doing so I
so rarely spoke up for myself. And after what happened
(19:49):
at CNN, and I was suddenly out after these twenty years.
I could have had a choice, you know, I guess
I could stayed in news. I could have taken a
different job. I could have kind of kept the status quo,
stayed in my marriage, stayed stuck, stayed unaligned. And I really, though,
(20:12):
felt so missionized, Like I was like, fuck, okay, I
need to get to the bottom of who I really
am and fucking take off my armor, you know, all
of my like you know, I'd roll around like I
was seeing it in his Brooke Baldwin, and I had
fancy flows and I had hair extensions, and I, you know,
(20:33):
like sort of rested on being associated with that that
company and what an what a privilege, but also like
m like who was just Brooke? And in doing so,
I got really quiet and still and read a lot
of books Martha Beck's Way of Integrity became my bible,
(20:56):
and spent a lot of time with myself and in nature,
and did some a lot of spiritual shit, does some psychedelics, yeah,
which we can talk about. And I then realized, you know,
I put my my dog of nineteen years. It's like, okay,
universe it was like it was like my job, my
(21:17):
career closed out the way I knew it. My dog
of my pug of nineteen years, you know that that
chapter completed. I was a mess for so long. My
husband at the time hated New York City, and so
I like did the thing that women do. It's like, okay, honey,
like I want your happiness. I'm going to leave the
place that I am in my most joy in New
(21:39):
York City, and I'm going to help you buy this
house in the middle of nowhere, Connecticut where I know
no one. I'm going to do that for you because
that's what we do, because I want your happiness.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
And so I was just like teetering without solid ground
under me, and then just kind of started coming home
to myself and finding myself and that then led to
knowing I needed to love my husband but let him go.
I think had I not left CNN, had that frying
pand to the forehead not happened, I would have been
(22:10):
fine with like just going through the motions. And I
knew I needed to shit got blown up for me,
and then I needed to blow some shit up to
then like find my fucking.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Path and I love that, and I think it's I know,
you know, Oh, I know, and I feel it and
it gives me goosebumps because what people don't know it's
the hardest and most brave thing you'll ever do in
your life is choosing yourself. I feel it in my
bones when you just say fuck enough is enough? What
about me? What about what I want? What about my
(22:43):
hopes and dreams? Do I have to compromise in Kate
and Caven belittle myself to fit this narrative of this
person that I'm really just not? Yeah, And I know
the pain in which and the journey to go through
it because you can only go through it, can't go
(23:04):
around it. You can't avoid it. You have to go
through it.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And you love that person, Yes, you love that person dearly,
and you know that if you're not happy, like like
who's kidding themselves? Like they're not happy either, But there
always has to be the one person who finds the
courage to do the hard thing.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Do the hard thing. And with that is that when
it took you to your mental health process and your
physical wealth process of going on, was it like a
where did you I remember you talking to me about this?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I went to the Hoffin Institute.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Hoffman Institute is that when you decided it is really
fucking dark and I need to put myself first and
I'm going to go.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
That was my That was my AHA. I had had
like all these moments leading up to it. I had
gone on you know, retreats. I've been around amazing women.
Thank God for the friends in our life. Vis I
had read a bunch of books. I'd really gotten into
meditating really sort of daily. I'm a journaler. I was
just doing all these things. And then I signed. I
(24:12):
had two really wise friends didn't know each other. I
was literally leaving like the Women's Final four, and a
buddy in Minneapolis was like, have you ever heard of
the Hoffmin Institute? And the next day I flew to
Cabo for Domini Krin's wet like birthday, and her you know,
former partner was like, have you ever heard the Hoffmin Institute.
So anyway, it was like boof the universe was bang
(24:32):
Like it wasn't just a whisper. They were like boom,
boo boom. And so I went to this place in Pedaluma, California,
and you know, I don't recommend it everyone, but if
you're ready, if you've done the work and you're ready
for big change and really upgrades in your life. But
you know you have to handle all the ripple effects
of the choices you're gonna make. And so I went,
(24:55):
and I don't want to for anyone. I don't want
to talk about the specifics of this one day, But
there's this one day sort of four days in out
of seven you've headed in your electronics. You know, you
can't you can't read. They even are like you can't masturbate,
Like wow, you can't do anything that takes you your brain,
your body out of the work that you're doing every day.
(25:16):
And I don't.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Know, but now I'm gonna ask. You know, she's probably
probably like y'all's jam.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
It really does. And so on this day I had this,
I had this giant aha. After you know, it's a
lot to do with like patterning of your parents and
your childhood and how that manifest in your current life.
And for sure I was thinking about my own husband
and how I was repeating so many of these patterns
and how to break free of them. And then at
the end of the day, I don't know how spiritual
(25:44):
you are, but I have become. I'm not religious, but
I'm deeply spiritual and I'm wide awake. I look for signs,
and one sign for me as a rainbow. And I
had this moment where I was like outside and they
had us essentially imagine like our death, like our death
taking one road, which would be the ego driven not
(26:04):
taking the hard choices, you know, and eventually you die
and who comes to who comes to say goodbye to you?
And the point being like not a lot of people
because they're sick of your same fucking complaints your whole life.
And then you imagine essentially your death when you are
being courageous and you're being brave and you're putting yourself first,
but not an egotistic way, but you know, like you're
(26:26):
not wearing the arm or you're showing, you're showing up
and being seen. So it's pouring rain in Pedaluma. They
have you outside and I'm imagining my death, and I'm
imagining my I was still married, my then husband, and
I imagine and there are all these pug puppies running
around because I just lost my dog and it was
a celebration, and so I imagine my husband off to
(26:46):
the side, and then I imagine another woman with him.
This is all just my eyes are closed in my imagination.
I imagine this and there's this man standing in the crystal
blue waters. I'm in the Caribbean in my head, and
there's this man holding my ashes. And I don't know
who this man is, but it's not my husband. And
in the end, there is this giant and my eyes
are closed. There's this giant rainbow that appears over the
(27:08):
Caribbean sea and Ashland, I open my motherfucker eyes. In Petaluma, California,
the rain stops and there is an actual rainbow that
forms in the distance over the hills and I at
this point, I am just weeping buckets of tears. And
(27:30):
my first instinct is to like look around, like does
anyone else see the rainbow? Like does anyone? Does anyone know?
I'm like making these crazy gestures and and then I
realize that, like maybe this rainbow is for me, and
I'm worthy of the rainbow all to myself. And I
had these rings made. This is Drew Jewelry, shout out
(27:52):
to thea here in La and it's I had her
right on the inside of these rings. It goes from
dark black diamonds to white, and it says I'm worthy
of the rainbow all to myself on the inside, and
I say that out loud to myself every single day
I wear these because that's when I knew that I
was so supported and I knew that I would be
(28:14):
okay leaving my marriage and being on my own. And
that was my moment. Wow, that was my moment.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
That is beautiful and I appreciate you sharing that because
I think that the universe will always present something to us. Yes,
I am a firm believer that things happen for us,
not to us. Yes I do. I really think that
(28:44):
your journey and your process led you to that moment, yes,
to show you that you are worthy and that you
are enough and all of these things. But you chose
to go. You chose to open your heart when it
could have easy been shut off from the trauma and
the pain and the constant just whiplash of every turn
(29:08):
you took, something was met with like a brick wall
in front of your face, and you were still open
to receive. And I think that's beautiful and I think
that's special, and I think that is why you are
on the other side of things right now. Like I
what I will say is your physical appearance has absolutely changed.
(29:32):
You look fit, you look vibrant. You're just really investing
in your spirituality, your physicality, your emotional well being. And
then I know you do you look in here. But
happiness looks good on people, and it's not performative, Brooke.
No one knows it more than I do. You know,
(29:55):
like you and I are public figures. We have to
perform in terms of showing every everyone everything's good, We're good,
we're strong women. So I think the difference is you're
no longer performing. You drop the rope, put the bucket down,
and you're open to receiving the kind of love and
(30:15):
kindness and tenderness you always imagined.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I love you for that, thank you for seeing me. Yes,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
But you were willing to receive and someone walked into
your life that probably changed it forever.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
It was like the heavens parted and the and as
if on cue. And at first I was like I
could my body felt it before my sort of intellect,
and I just was. I was just open to it
and was listening and needed to, Like you know, I
(30:50):
needed to close out one chapter and open the next
and there was a little bit of overlap and and
just in terms of like me saying I love you,
but I've got to let you go and then pursuing
this other potential, beautiful human and and that's okay, Like
I'm okay with that. And yeah, his name is Peter,
(31:14):
and he is if I was sort of coming from
a spiritual desert. He is a motherfucking rainforest.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
He is so lucky a thank you, but he's just
so genuine and so sweet, and.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
So he's a man.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
He is a I mean when I first met him,
I like wrapped my arms around him because I know
I've lived it. I've lived the same pain. I've lived
the same sacrifices. I've lived the hardship of saying I
can't do this anymore. And I know the pain it's
(31:57):
going to cause someone, and it's really really hard. And
I think what people don't realize and what I'll say
is the best thing I ever did in such a
broken state was still open my heart to receive because
I would have never I was in the darkest moment
(32:18):
of my life. I did not deserve Sophia at all.
I don't know why she stayed around when I was
half of a human and broken because I couldn't offer
the things I wanted to offer at my best. So
I want to talk about that because it was I
think for a lot of us, we talk about, well,
I'm not ready for this? Are you ever really ready?
(32:41):
Is it ever? The perfect timing? And I think back
and I talked to my therapist a lot about this
because I kept being like, this feels very early and
soon to feel this way, yes, And I was so
scared about how everyone else receive it and how this
and that.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Because you've been so public facing as another couple.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yes, And as much as I was set on fire
for how quickly, I really knew that this was important
for me and special. So the greatest thing I ever did,
because if I would have said no, my life would
have been so different. And I'm finally experiencing the joy
I always imagined. And I'm not going to apologize for that.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
As I'm listening to you, I want to share it.
So I was up in Toronto a couple weekns again
for this like magic and Creativity workshop with the goddesses
who is Liz Gilbert and Martha Beck Okay, and one
of them I literally wore my phoenix ring because for
us and for our journeys and because of this story,
(33:47):
and so one of them was essentially saying, like, the
difference between feeling stuck and feeling free, which is where
we are right now, is telling the truth. And imagine
a bonfire in front of you. There are two ways
it's gonna go. You Either are gonna step into the
bonfire and you're like, oh, this doesn't hurt, like this
(34:08):
is kind of a nothing burger, like I'm fine, doesn't
leave any marks. The other option is you step in
the bonfire and it burns you to pieces and you
become dust, and then you emerge like a fucking phoenix. Yes,
this ring, I wear it to remind myself of this,
but no matter what, in order to be free, you
(34:29):
have no choice but to step into that bonfire. And
we stepped into the bonfire willingly. No one coerced us,
but we knew we were not living these aligned, truthful lives.
We were not. We just weren't. And everyone knows that
feeling when you're like trying to convince yourself every day
(34:49):
and you're trying to get up out of bed and
you're like, is this how it's supposed to feel and
you don't have evidence. I'm such like a journalist. I'm like,
I need information, I need data, like what is this
going to be if I do X or why? And
you just know that feeling. It's the opposite of uigui.
And once you acknowledge the truth to yourself of what
(35:11):
is not okay and what is not acceptable about your
own life, and you you you like, we did burned
the fuck up.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, you know, Brooke, It's so crazy to me. It's
so fucking crazy to me that you and I not
only are we so aligned and so similar, but we
use the same language and we're not around each other
that much. Because there was a moment where Sofia was
just absolutely in tears because everything went public and everyone
(35:42):
destroyed me and turned on me and made everything very
a false And no one knows this more than you.
It's like everyone wanted clickbait. I was the easy yes target. Yes,
you know she is this person, you know my ex
is this person, and then all of us I became
this bad boy cheater and this and that, and it
(36:04):
just was so far from the truth and it was
so hurtful, and Sophia kept being like, you have to
tell your truth, you have to say something, and I
was like, I have two kids, like I want to.
It was hard enough waking up every day through the unravelings,
which we're going to get to. I had to put
(36:27):
I had to realize waking up was enough, and I
was raising two kids alone and I had to put
one foot in front of the other every day, and
I was fucking burning alive. The media was torturing me.
My teammates and friends wanted because of cancel culture. They
wanted fucking nothing to do with me. It was the
best thing that could happen to me. Yes, because it's
(36:50):
so fucking interesting. The few times I went to friends
to talk about my experience about why I left in
my marriage to justify it, which is fucking ridiculous I
have to do anyways, everyone projected their own experience on me,
not surprised, and I just went I shut everyone out
(37:13):
because it had to be my choice. It had to be.
I didn't want to be swayed. I didn't want to
want one person to tell me this and want based
on their own experience. And it was so fucking clear
to me that every person I peeled apart the layers
and became wide open with just really inserted their own
(37:34):
experience on mine and weirdly enough made it about them
and I shut everyone out. And Sophia was like, you
need a support system, you need these people. Just tell
them the truth. People know you at your core, they
know you're a good human and finally you know now
(37:56):
that we're on the other side. I told her not
long ago, Sofia. Yes, I told Sophia not long ago.
And that's where I'm circling back. I said, I'd gladly
burn alive again to have you and have this life
because I shed the fat. Yes, I found out who
my fucking friends were and who the who weren't. And
(38:18):
now I burnt everything to the fucking ground. And now
I am growing these beautiful parts of me that were
so restricted, that were it felt impossible to achieve right.
And I say this often.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I had to.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I had too two realizations. I guess when I was
unraveling and I was in the thick, it was I
was going to drop the rope or I was going
to put it around my neck. Yes, And I felt
like the second I dropped it and I ran, I
felt like everyone from my community and my ex wife
(39:01):
at the time, put it around my neck, torched me,
set me on fire, and kicked the chair from underneath me.
And when I sat and struggled in my most darkest moments,
people just watched and it became blood sport. And it
was so hard for me to understand because I did
the bravest thing I ever could have done, and I
chose myself.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Right, Like, where's my tick or tape parade?
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Not only that, but where's my aunt Grace? Yeah, where's
the understanding of you don't know the life I lived
within those walls.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
I'm so sorry you went through all that.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
And also and now I'm a motherfucking phoenix.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yes, your motherfucking phoenix.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
And there's no playbook people think that, Oh you know,
this is what I got a lot. I didn't like
how you did it. I didn't like how it went down.
I didn't like it was my choice, Like there's a
perfect time to drop the rope.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
And like they knew what it was like to be
in your shoes. Yeah, yeah, let it burn, baby, that's
what it says on the inside of my fings ring.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
God, it lets you speak to my soul in a
way that like I just can't even exp rest sometimes.
But I want to hear about the unraveling. I want
to hear about because your writing is so beautiful and
it's so real and it's so raw, and I I
you know, if anyone you know our listeners out there,
(40:15):
go check it out clearly, But I want you to
talk about it because even why that why unraveling? Why
Because it's such a powerful word and it's so clear.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Why for me?
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Because I've been around? Yes, but tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I love you for asking. I mean I am very
much so still unraveling. I think my unraveling started with
the dropkick out of CNN, out of my dream job
and moving me into where I am. But the unraveling continues.
And you know, people think of an unraveling, it's an
un it's a it's a it's to come apart. But
to me, it's to actually free yourself and to tell
(40:53):
your truth. And so I refer to my own unraveling
coming out of CNN. I'm writing the Substack, which is
bringing me so much joy for everyone listening, if you
just go to it's unraveling with me, Brooke Baldwin And
so I write every Sunday and I write about various
pieces of my unraveling and how I've been able to
unravel because I believe that everyone is either wants to unravel,
(41:13):
is in the throes of unraveling, or has unraveled, and
it can be and unraveling can be at the frying
pan to the forehead is what I refer to, or oprah.
It talks about like the brick and the wall, or
you know, something that you choose, or something that feels
that's done to you that you are definitely not asking for,
that feels like some sort of existential crisis. It can
(41:33):
be marriage, it can be work, it can be health,
you know, illness, et cetera. And how we respond when
life hands us a shit sandwich. I can't get enough
from people and their own stories. And I so appreciate
you being so open about your own about like, and
we're all unraveling local what's happening in America. Look at
(41:56):
what we're being handed. How are we going to hand?
Like instead of making decisions from fear, Let's make decisions
from curiosity, Let's like lean into our goodness. Let's you
know when you unravel. When I've unraveled, and I know
you've experienced this too. It's like you think you have
this whole set of friends that you've had for forever,
and you realize suddenly, like, oh, those people aren't actually
(42:20):
my friends, and these are the ones who stood by me,
and I'm going to collect some of these friends over here.
It's about what I do for my body to continue
to be healthy and at peace, unraveling how I live
my life, the company I choose to keep. It's so
many pieces of it, and I'm just so interested in
people's stories and how in their life pivots and because
(42:44):
everyone stands to learn something, I think there are a
lot of people who feel stuck. I think COVID is
a huge part of this in ways like we still
have yet to really figure out, Like we had these
quiet still moments in the middle of the pandemic, and
you know, I had my own sort of come to
Jesus with certain ways I was living my life that
I wanted to change. But then life went back and
(43:08):
just like little ants, we went back to our lives
and we went back to our old choices. And I
think only now a couple of years removed, or at
least some women in my friend group are like, fuck,
I'm ready to I feel on the precipice of real change,
and I just want to talk to women and men
about those changes and their courage and what the other
(43:30):
side looks like.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, I'll be back in just a moment after this
brief message from our sponsors. When you talk about the
other side, I'm curious to know, once you burned everything
(43:55):
to the ground, who is this new Brook? What have
you learned and about her? What are you now not
willing to compromise? What has changed in you now to
receive such a healthy relationship and open relationship, your physical health.
You know, I see you all the time doing yoga
(44:15):
and you're now spiritual, like more than ever. Like, who
is this new Brook? What did you What has really
changed inside you?
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Who is just Brooke? Just Brook is someone who has
no tolerance for inauthenticity. If I smell it, I can't
be around it. And I know that's hard because sometimes
you have to work with people who aren't their best selves.
And I've definitely done that in my past, and sometimes
(44:50):
we can't choose, But as best as I can, I
surround myself with people who are as authentic as humanly possible,
who who live in full integrity. Martha Beck truly changed
my life when I read her book about you know,
not telling a single lie, like she talks about going
on this integrity cleanse, meaning like how many days in
a row, how many months in a row, how many
(45:11):
years in a row can you go without telling even
a single fucking lie? And so I subscribe to that
theory of like just being in full integrity. That's my
prayer every day, So being an integrity, not being around
in authenticity and saying yes to things that feel in
full alignment with me. And also like realizing that some
(45:32):
of that means moving slower. I don't run at ninety
miles an hour like I used to. I would look
at this girl and be like, girlfriend, what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (45:41):
You know?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
But I have slowed down to be able to open
my aperture and make wiser decisions. I say no a
lot more. I feel like I let my hair go wild,
like girlfriend, I had to do like blowouts and all
the things like mandatory for my old job. And now
(46:04):
it feels like some sort of you know, like lame
rebellion that I'm letting my hair be naturally curly, but
you know, having my outside to match match my inside,
Like wearing clothes. I want to as simple as like,
you know, putting on pants and cool shoes and the
things that I really want to wear that feel right
for me, and not putting on what felt like maybe
a costume, and being super curious, always asking the questions.
(46:33):
My circle is never closed. I always want to meet
new people and bring them into the fold. Dying to
have a double date. We have so much to discuss,
so much to discuss, and yeah, just deepening my spiritual
practices and being with a partner who meets me there
and then some ooh that's a big one, like someone
(46:56):
I fucking respect. And the sexiest part of about my
man is his wisdom.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Oh I love that, it really had. You're so light,
like you're just light, You're moving like you're happy, and
it's it's so beautiful to see. But also like you
put so much work into yourself, into choosing yourself. And
(47:24):
I think that's something that our audience can always take
away is we are so branded as women to say yes, yes, yes,
yes yes and sacrifice ourselves we can. The first fucking
thing I heard from everyone is what about your kids?
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (47:44):
What about me?
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Can't even get out of bed. I'm driving my car
figuring out how I could flip it every day because
I just wanted it to end.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Where you were going there, I was, Oh, I was there.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
I was there. And that's the heart part is you
know when people are like, this is so sudden, this
is so have you really thought through it? Have you
done this? Like I have thought about every option, even
that point of I'm so scared to get out. I'm
so scared to do the hard thing. It's so selfish
(48:23):
and how do I just end it? And it's like,
that is why we have these conversations. That is why
I am doing this show. That is why it's called
wide Open, because our pain can be turned into light.
And it was really, really dark, and I'm sure it
(48:44):
was very dark for you, and the Phoenix part is
so true. It's I got really comfortable in the dark
and I didn't run from it, and when I needed
to rest, I rested. And the most the biggest thing
I'm proud of is I didn't make my storm my
(49:04):
children's mmmm, well done, mom. And I'll never get credit
for that, clearly, and I'm not looking for credit. But
when a world judged me based on doing the hardest thing,
and I was in such a dark, broken place and
I had no one or anything. I chose to show
(49:25):
up and be the best possible parent I could, and
that probably was life saving.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
As I'm listening to you, I think it's worth like
telling if I may be the journalist for a second
and ask you the question, Mash, because once you are
wide open and you have or maybe we are constantly unraveling,
to just let people know what it tastes like to
be living the life you're living now, Like why becoming
(49:56):
this phoenix? Like what it really feels like, because by
the way, everyone listening deserves it can feel it. It
is out there for everyone, like when you like when
I wake up in the morning, when I go to bed,
I am so excited to drink coffee with my man
on our front steps. I have never been more excited
to just sit and drink coffee with someone in my
entire life. I get so much joy, and that is
(50:17):
just the beginning of my day. Yep. What is the joy?
What are those little moments that y'all enjoy so much
that you would have never experienced had this never happened
for you.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
I never thought I think I was brainwashed by culture.
And what people always told me is you can't have
it all. You have to compromise this. No one has
a perfect relationship. It takes work, it takes this. And
I had this idea of how I wanted to be loved,
(50:51):
and I love hard, and I got to a point
where I just gave up. I gave up that that's
not the type of love I'm gonna receive, which made
me shrink, which made me have shame, which made me
feel unlovable, unwanted. And now I wake up and two
(51:14):
days ago I wake I woke up next to Sophia,
and I looked at her and I said, I missed
you like I missed you. Slept next to me and
I couldn't hang out with you for eight hours and
I missed you. And it is that kind of love
I love I never thought was possible. Yes, Yes, I
(51:35):
used to self medicate. As soon as my kids went down,
I put I smoked as much as I could, I
ate as many gummies as I could because I was
just it was so painful. I numbed and it was
like I had sleep doctors come in with the national team.
(51:56):
I never could sleep I had this really hard, hard
issue with insomnia. The second I started really feeling safe
with Sophia and the second I slept next to her.
I think at one point I slept sixteen hours. Damn
my I woke up and she thought she woke me
(52:20):
up because she was like, are you okay? For three
straight days, I just slept And I looked at her
and I said, it's the first time in my life
I feel safe, and it's the first time in my
life I could sleep.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Hellelujah and Sophia Bush, she does your body good.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
I just thought I had, you know, an issue with sleeping.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Yes, I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
My issue was the.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Person in your bed, yeah, and the person you were
with the person in your bed yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
And that to me, I am I moved differently. I
look different, Like I have so many people reaching out
to me being like I haven't seen you spy smile,
Like I'm posting pictures of me smiling. I'm like, who
is this happening?
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Who is she?
Speaker 1 (53:07):
But like I'm different, and that's the thing, Like, you know,
I I do feel that I have lost a lot
choosing myself.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yes I have.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
I've lost a lot of friends yes, I feel like
in my small the world, yeah, yes, in my small world,
people felt the need to choose aside. And I let
it go because if you feel like you're that invested
where you have to choose a side, you never were
(53:40):
my friend in the first place. And you know what
it is. It allowed me to open my heart to
new people. And it's the greatest fucking thing I've ever done.
I will say this, I would have never met Renee
Stubs and she is a gift to this world. Was
a Renee. It's just she didn't have to. She didn't
(54:01):
know me well. And you know one thing, and I
sobbed at her birthday. We were all talking about a
story about Renee and I. Last Thanksgiving was the first
time I didn't have Thanksgiving with my family and my
ex wife had the kids and I was alone. And
she goes, pack your shit. I'm driving to pick you
(54:24):
up in New Jersey. We're going to Pennsylvania. I'm taking
you to Carson's Farm. I'm gonna we're just gonna.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Go for walks.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
We're gonna have animals. It's just gonna be like us.
Oh she's the best, and I oh gosh, I cried.
I woke up.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
I cried, You'll never forget that.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
I'll never forget the way she showed up for me.
But it took so many people turning their back on
me for me to receive that kind of love and
be open to it. And I have some of the
best friends in the world who are new friendships that
I'll have forever. This love I have with this woman,
(55:03):
I mean, she is the you know, she always says this,
I am the sun to her, and now she is
absolutely the sun, the stars she is at all. I
genuinely mean, I genuinely mean this, Brook. I knew this
woman in another lifetime. I yes, I had to go
to I had to go through this pain to find
(55:23):
her against and I'm living the life I always imagined.
And fuck was it hard to get here what I
got here? And so did you? So what's next? What's next?
Brooke Baldwin?
Speaker 2 (55:37):
Take us home?
Speaker 1 (55:38):
What's next?
Speaker 2 (55:39):
So I'm writing this substack about unraveling. I'm hoping to
parlay it into a book. I am hoping to also
host a podcast around the similar themes. So sister, get
ready to be on the other side of the microphone
with me, gladly, and you know, one thing I did
after leaving CNN, which I was like, I couldn't say
(56:00):
these words out loud for a minute. But I hosted
a reality show and by the way, it was so
much funticks. It was so fun. I got to smile
on TV again. It's called the Trust If anyone wants
a good, good binge, and you know that show isn't
getting reupped, and that's okay. It just like opened the
door for me in a whole other way. And so
I'm kind of obsessed with the Golden Bachelorette. I'm just
gonna manifest something right now on this show. I'm not
(56:22):
saying I want to host The Golden Bachelorette again or
whenever it comes out, but I would love I used
to I used to say I would never do a
dating show. I'd never host a dating show. I want
to manifest a grown ass like finding love later in
life for women and men in their forties, fifties, sixties,
to show that it's possible to talk about like the
(56:44):
uey guy feelings, to also talk about sex and pleasure
and you know, like how we deserve it, even if
after you've been married once twice three times, like we
all deserve to have our dessert and I would love
to host something like that because I am living that
and I want to show other people that they can
(57:04):
live it to I love that. So that's on my
shelf of manifestation and the rest, you know, I think
is in process. So that's what I'm up to.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
We are all a work in progress. Yes, we are
all unraveling. And thank you for being so vulnerable and
wide open. Thank you for coming on my show.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
I love you, girl.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
I love you so much to see the joy in
your eyes and.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
The way you got it. You got it as they say.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
And we're really doing it. And I'm proud of us
because it wasn't easy to get here and we're still
learning in real time.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
I'm proud of us too.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
Thanks for being here. Love you, I'm done. Wide Open
with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen Borca, Coreo, Maronoff,
(58:01):
and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive
producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our
editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder, and I'm your host,
Ashlyn Harris.
Hey girl, Hey, welcome to my show.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I hope. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Thank you honey so much.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You're such a baller and all the ways, all the
good things.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Thank you everyone. The one and only Brooke Baldwin, the sweetest,
genuine human. I know that I was so lucky. Well,
I am so lucky to call you a friend, but
I was so lucky to host Late Night Late Never
Roy go heels, Everyone go heels, And I feel like
(00:45):
we were meant to be there.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It was a couple of years ago when we were,
for those who are not familiar with the best university
on the planet, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
where this one obviously crushed it on the soccer field,
and I just enjoyed going there, and so like we
invited to go co host this. Basically it's like the
beginning of basketball season, which is like the biggest.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
You wait late Night with Roy's like the second the
clock hits, these boys can train. Yeah, you just like
it's almost like an old school pep brow it is.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
We're like we're the pep rally leaders. And I just
remember meeting you and you have this like you had
those amazing off white Carolina high tops, which obviously I
went out and bought and literally laced orange and blue
because if Adelin Harris does, I did. And we just
bonded that night, like eating pizza late night we did
(01:36):
in China, Franklin Street, late night Franklin Street.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Also, I was so terrified. That's like the first time
I was ever really hosting anything. And You're like, yes,
oh girl, you got this, blah blah blah. I was like,
there are thirty thousand people here. I am uncomfortable. How
am I supposed to get everyone?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You're amazing, you were a natural.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, it's easy to have you by my side. Let's
just say that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
So what should we discuss.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Let's start from the beginning. Let's start from the beginning,
because you were such an important personality on CNN, and
I feel like you were You were in my living
room before I even knew you, and when we became
friends and you, you know, told me your story and
I got to read your book, Huddle. I think a
(02:20):
lot of parallels in our life in terms of what
you were doing and how you felt in a very
male dominated industry and Jesus Chris identity and then Trump
and all of these fucking things piling up. I just
want you to kind of bring me to the start
(02:45):
before we even get to CNN, and I like to
before we dive into the start of who Brooke Baldwin is.
I always say this, and I always ask this to
my guest, what was the moment in your life that
really split you wide open?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Ooh, coming in hot with the good questions.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It's just like, we gotta go there because I really
find that when people know the breaking point or the moment,
then you can really start unpacking the why.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Okay, so I'm going to tell the story I've definitely
never told in my life out loud. But when you
say broken wide open, you know, you know so much
goes back to childhood. And I remember, I think I
was like shopping in a mall with my mom. I'm
from Atlanta, and it was Christmas time and I was
maybe like in the fifth or the sixth grade, and
we were, you know, shopping for whatever head of Christmas.
(03:40):
And I remember there was this whole you know, Santa
Claus was in the mall. Santa Claus, the y Elves,
everyone else. And I remember seeing a little friend of
mine at the time who was an elf. And I
remember sitting on a bench not too far from her
with our shopping bags and looking over and then just
(04:00):
having this I don't know how else to describe it,
but this like deep knowing in my twelve year old,
thirteen year old body of I want to do big things.
I don't want to be the elf in the Santa
Claus mall setup like bless her for you know, wanting
(04:22):
to do that, but like I don't know what the
thing is going to be. But I know I'm going
to have a voice, and I know I want to
do big things. And my mother to this day still
references the part at the mall and the Santa Claus
and she was like, Brook, you knew, and I knew
you knew. I just didn't know what it was going
to be. And so from then I ended up at
(04:45):
Carolina to go to journalism school. That is why I went.
I mean, I'm from Atlanta, you know, CNN was like
two miles from my house. Ted Turner loom Large, I'd
go to the Braves games. We'd bring binoculars, not just
to see like you know that such a baseball fan,
like that whole team of ninety five when they won
the series. But all so, you know, looking for like
Jane fond On, Ted Turner, Turner Stadium, well icons total
(05:06):
and so it was like, okay, TV news. And then
I went to j school at Carolina and that just
like ripped me wide open. And I interned at CNN
and then interned at a couple of different TV stations
while I was there. I worked at the ABC affiliate
in Durham while we were seeing while I was a senior,
And that was the beginning of wanting to become a
TV news reporter, not having any clue. You know, when
(05:28):
you start on soccer, it's like, God, do you have
all these huge goals. I want to play, I want
to I want to win gold, I want to be
on the national team. But you never know. You just
have to have that faith in yourself. And I did
the same thing.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
There's no plan B. Everyone always talks about that. No,
I mean, when you're on a mission, nothing else matters.
And what I'll say is weirdly enough, so many of
my mentors were pushing me to go to the journalism school,
were they and I don't I don't think people realize
(05:59):
how first, how difficult it is to get into it,
and how prestigious it is and how well known it is.
It was like that. And the Business School, yeah, it
was like a big, big deal.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
And amazing it is.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I remember because Chris Dukarr, my goalkeeper coach at the time,
they would show up to my classes to make sure
I actually went. And I had this public speaking class
because honestly, it was just an easy elective for me. Yes,
I was up there and I had these note cards
and I was walking up and down the aisles of
(06:37):
the classroom and touching the desk and so performative. And
the teacher was just like, oh my god, this bitch
is wild. And then she was like I sat down
and she looked at me after class and she goes, well,
you have to turn in your note cards. It's twenty
percent of your grade, following like exactly what. And I
gave her like three blank note cards and she said,
(06:58):
you stood up there and pretend the whole time. I said, yeah,
I did.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Oh wow, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
You knew then.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I knew I would be sitting here, not really, but
here we are God.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Because these were planted there were you know, you're inner sparkle.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
You knew it, you had it and you're such a
natural though, Like that's right, It's just you're such a natural,
warm personality where you make people feel safe, and I
think that's invaluable.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Thank you, And I'd like to.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Hope that I give off that vibe. And I think
maybe that's why we are really really similar. So you
you land the job at CNN. Yes, and that's like
a big deal. That's a big deal. You said you
were down the road, you always knew that was the vision. Yeah,
once you got in there.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yes, Yes, what was it?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Like?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I stuck the landing. I worked in local news all
through my twenties and rolled the teleprompter with my foot
under the desk and worked all the holidays and really
sort of you know, sacrificed and then landed at CNN
in I was like twenty nine maybe, And I think
I got my own show around the age of thirty.
Like I was a thirty thirty year old young woman
hosting two live hours to myself literally like I'm going
(08:15):
to tell you all this now, but literally like learning
about the world. As I was sitting at the anchor desk.
Shit would flare up in Israel, shit would flare up
in the Middle East. Stuff would happen in you know,
in Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan, and it was like boof, teleprompter
goes blank. I need to be read in on what's
going on. And then I also, like you, like I
(08:36):
know how to channel the people who are watching. I'm
not the expert. I'm about to talk to a bunch
of experts. I need to know enough to you know,
connective tissue, to get from person AB to Z and
to just guide people through what's happening around the world.
And it was such a frickin' honor to be able
to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
But it had to be digestible for everyone to understand
and follow. And I think that's what people don't understand enough.
And how great you were at your job, thank you,
But what separates you is it's not like when you're
breaking things down for the general public who has no idea.
(09:15):
You do make it digestible where it's easy to understand
and follow, which is not always easy to do.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Right. Well, I think the audience is really smart, so
I never ever would think, oh, you know, this whole
notion of dumbing it down, it's just make it How
would I want to explain this thing that's happening with
Isis and Syria to my to my mother or my
best friend. Yeah, you know, how can I make it
palatable digestible? And why should they care about something that's
happening half a world away, you know, or what's been happening,
(09:44):
you know, in the United States. So like it was
an honor and a privilege to do that. I sat
in that seat all by myself and did that every
day for almost eleven years. Wow, almost eleven years, and
we covered everything. And I've been to the DMZ, I've
landed on an aircraft carrier. I've been on the Willie
Nelson tour bus and gotten some souvenir the few times. Okay,
(10:06):
you know, I've met some cool people and it was
amazing until it wasn't. Kind of wasn't.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
So talk to me about that. And not only that,
I'll say this before you even dive into that, because
I think what people I think what people are now
starting to realize. I know you're not necessarily in that
type of profession in this moment, but you carry it
with you in everything you do. You are an EmPATH.
(10:37):
I feel it every time I'm around the path, So
am I so that's why I really really connect with you.
And I think the vulnerability lately of journalists who are
finally just breaking and showing exactly who they are on air.
It's it's a breakthrough for me. It's exactly what you
(10:58):
and I are talking about. Just totally be wide open
and think about what you had to go through as
a journalist in a really, really difficult time, whether it's
the election, whether it's right before you know, the pandemic demic,
whether it was the war in Iraq, like so much
(11:18):
was going on in such a short amount of time.
You're young, you're in this new profession, like there has
to be a part of you that brought that home
with you all the time, and it had for someone
who's twenty nine and thirty years old, who I would
consider doesn't really know themselves that well yet they're not
in the best years of their life, and it's got
(11:40):
to be so fucking hard to go home who you
feel all of that for sure, and then you have
to button everything up and you have to play neutral
and you have to play about the you know, you
have to present the facts and it's not opinionated. It
can't be right, ye, I can't imagine the toll that
takes on a young woman.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Ooh ooh. Yes, I happened to anchor the two hours
in the late afternoon when kids would be getting out
of school, and I sat in that seat so many
times when there would be school shootings and mass shootings,
and I was always I became the person. I think
because of my empathy in my humanity that I became
(12:25):
the person I was always sent to like the worst
disasters involving, you know, the loss of human life, and
it was I I could feel it. It's like coming
up in my body right now. I can feel it,
you know. I can feel if I close my eyes
and think about going down to Parkland, Florida, or going
to Sandy Hook. And I mean, I have to say,
(12:46):
my colleagues, when you go to a place where that
many first graders are murdered and you're with such professional
colleagues who are all like, we're all wiping tears and
trying to be professional as we're interviewing firefighters and the
daughter of the principal who was murdered, and parents and
friends of parents and teachers and standing in front of
(13:07):
you know, I would have a producer say to me,
can you get to the can you get to the more?
Can you can you try to talk to someone you
know who's having to handle these these children, and you
know you have to say no at some point. But
I remember standing outside of this one building and seeing
this tiny white casket be rolled out. I was standing
with my photographer, my producer, and we just we just
stood there, and like, you know, it does take a toll,
(13:32):
and you do have to be a professional, and you
do go home and are flat on the floor. And
I would also add to that, even covering certain White Houses,
and I happen to be on for those four years
when those Sean Spicer White House briefings would be going on,
(13:52):
we'd have to ditch our show and go straight to
the White House and he'd be spewing lies. And I
covered this a liar for really five years, and it
definitely takes a toll. You know. I start to twitch
a little bit when I hear his voice. And it
was my whole life. But I'm proud of the work
(14:13):
I did. I'm proud of my professionalism and also now
like I'm proud to be amongst everyone else and be
able to be out and be myself and be free
and you know my have my outsides match my insides?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah? Absolutely? And after you left, which I can imagine
wasn't exactly the easy yeah, the easiest journey after dedicating
and sacrificing so much to your craft, How did you
handle that? Is that why you wrote huddle?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Is?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
What was? What was it like? You know, your identity
for so long was wrapped up in that, and then
all of a sudden, it's like the rugs pulled out
under you because you stopped being this yes woman that
everyone wanted you to be in this toxic culture that
you know that I can relate to. Is the shut
(15:12):
up and dribble? Yes, right, yes, So talk to me
about that because I can't imagine that was easy, but
I think it's important because you and I are disruptors.
You and I are trying to.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Never knew I was. I thought I was the good girl.
I'm from the South, Yes, I color in the lines,
and I never thought I would be a disruptor. And
now I like, thank you?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
How did you find your voice?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I wrote Huddle in the throes of covering the Trump
White House and feeling like I needed to do something
to fill my soul. And so I started running around
the country and my free time, which was not a
lot of free time, you know, and interviewing folks who played,
you know, some of the women on the NAT team,
(16:01):
you know, subirds, some of the Necho Gumake, some of
the women who play professional basketball. I talked to women,
congress women, more moderate women, congress women. And I talked
to teachers. I talked to Stacy Abrams, I talked to moms.
I talked to a lot of women. And what I
realized in sitting in those spaces was this word no.
(16:24):
And I started showing up differently at work, and the
expectation was to shut up and dribble a hondo. And
I was never this. I never was a squeaky wheel,
heaven forbid. But I definitely started speaking up a bit more.
And when the expectation is to shut up and dribble
and I instead want a different play, it's very easy
(16:47):
to be replaced. Let me just say that there's a
line of women and men as far back as you
can possibly see who'd be willing to, like, you know,
cut off their left arm to have the position I had.
And in the end, I knew, I knew I wasn't
in full alignment, just based upon how we were covering news.
I missed more traditional journalism. I missed a variety of
(17:07):
stories instead of like myopically covering this one man and
the way we did over and over and over and
over and over. And kudos to all the people who
remained there and who were going to have a lot
of work to do these next couple of years. I
have all the respect for them. But like in the end,
I knew I needed to go. But the way in
which I was essentially drop kicked out of my job
(17:29):
without cause, yeah, well I was a wreck. I was
a wreck. The way it was handled was abhorrent. And yeah,
that's why I wrote that piece finally in Vanity Fair
because I needed to like risk sort of everything and
a lot, like, you know, some money i'd made from
my own salary there and I wasn't supposed to speak up,
(17:50):
and I took a really fucking big risk and was
literally on my knees, not pouring out of my nose
like two days before they hit published at Vanity Fair
over that piece that I wrote. But I'm a truth teller, yeah,
and I had to tell the truth.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And I love that about you, and I think anyone
who is lucky enough to sit five minutes in your
presence knows that. And it's interesting having a front row
seat lately to your life and what you've done in
the past. I can't help but draw the parallel between
you writing Huddle Yes, which was the story of other people,
(18:29):
to finding your voice and writing about your own. This
is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris. We'll
be right back, So talk to me about that. Why,
(18:53):
what was the journey, what was the breaking point? What
was it that you needed to do, the soul searching
that took to really be confident enough to really put
it all out there, because that's a really brave thing
to do. And how did that impact your life, your
(19:14):
self worth, your relationship, the way you moved in the world.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
My God, you're gonna make me cry.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Oh sorry, honey.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I was always a journalist first and foremost for twenty years,
and when you're a journalist, you are not the center
of the story. It was my job for those years
to shine the light on someone else, to speak up
on behalf of someone else, and in doing so I
so rarely spoke up for myself. And after what happened
(19:49):
at CNN, and I was suddenly out after these twenty years.
I could have had a choice, you know, I guess
I could stayed in news. I could have taken a
different job. I could have kind of kept the status quo,
stayed in my marriage, stayed stuck, stayed unaligned. And I really, though,
(20:12):
felt so missionized, Like I was like, fuck, okay, I
need to get to the bottom of who I really
am and fucking take off my armor, you know, all
of my like you know, I'd roll around like I
was seeing it in his Brooke Baldwin, and I had
fancy flows and I had hair extensions, and I, you know,
(20:33):
like sort of rested on being associated with that that
company and what an what a privilege, but also like
m like who was just Brooke? And in doing so,
I got really quiet and still and read a lot
of books Martha Beck's Way of Integrity became my bible,
(20:56):
and spent a lot of time with myself and in nature,
and did some a lot of spiritual shit, does some psychedelics, yeah,
which we can talk about. And I then realized, you know,
I put my my dog of nineteen years. It's like, okay,
universe it was like it was like my job, my
(21:17):
career closed out the way I knew it. My dog
of my pug of nineteen years, you know that that
chapter completed. I was a mess for so long. My
husband at the time hated New York City, and so
I like did the thing that women do. It's like, okay, honey,
like I want your happiness. I'm going to leave the
place that I am in my most joy in New
(21:39):
York City, and I'm going to help you buy this
house in the middle of nowhere, Connecticut where I know
no one. I'm going to do that for you because
that's what we do, because I want your happiness.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
And so I was just like teetering without solid ground
under me, and then just kind of started coming home
to myself and finding myself and that then led to
knowing I needed to love my husband but let him go.
I think had I not left CNN, had that frying
pand to the forehead not happened, I would have been
(22:10):
fine with like just going through the motions. And I
knew I needed to shit got blown up for me,
and then I needed to blow some shit up to
then like find my fucking.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Path and I love that, and I think it's I know,
you know, Oh, I know, and I feel it and
it gives me goosebumps because what people don't know it's
the hardest and most brave thing you'll ever do in
your life is choosing yourself. I feel it in my
bones when you just say fuck enough is enough? What
about me? What about what I want? What about my
(22:43):
hopes and dreams? Do I have to compromise in Kate
and Caven belittle myself to fit this narrative of this
person that I'm really just not? Yeah, And I know
the pain in which and the journey to go through
it because you can only go through it, can't go
(23:04):
around it. You can't avoid it. You have to go
through it.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And you love that person, Yes, you love that person dearly,
and you know that if you're not happy, like like
who's kidding themselves? Like they're not happy either, But there
always has to be the one person who finds the
courage to do the hard thing.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Do the hard thing. And with that is that when
it took you to your mental health process and your
physical wealth process of going on, was it like a
where did you I remember you talking to me about this?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I went to the Hoffin Institute.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Hoffman Institute is that when you decided it is really
fucking dark and I need to put myself first and
I'm going to go.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
That was my That was my AHA. I had had
like all these moments leading up to it. I had
gone on you know, retreats. I've been around amazing women.
Thank God for the friends in our life. Vis I
had read a bunch of books. I'd really gotten into
meditating really sort of daily. I'm a journaler. I was
just doing all these things. And then I signed. I
(24:12):
had two really wise friends didn't know each other. I
was literally leaving like the Women's Final four, and a
buddy in Minneapolis was like, have you ever heard of
the Hoffmin Institute? And the next day I flew to
Cabo for Domini Krin's wet like birthday, and her you know,
former partner was like, have you ever heard the Hoffmin Institute.
So anyway, it was like boof the universe was bang
(24:32):
Like it wasn't just a whisper. They were like boom,
boo boom. And so I went to this place in Pedaluma, California,
and you know, I don't recommend it everyone, but if
you're ready, if you've done the work and you're ready
for big change and really upgrades in your life. But
you know you have to handle all the ripple effects
of the choices you're gonna make. And so I went,
(24:55):
and I don't want to for anyone. I don't want
to talk about the specifics of this one day, But
there's this one day sort of four days in out
of seven you've headed in your electronics. You know, you
can't you can't read. They even are like you can't masturbate,
Like wow, you can't do anything that takes you your brain,
your body out of the work that you're doing every day.
(25:16):
And I don't.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Know, but now I'm gonna ask. You know, she's probably
probably like y'all's jam.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
It really does. And so on this day I had this,
I had this giant aha. After you know, it's a
lot to do with like patterning of your parents and
your childhood and how that manifest in your current life.
And for sure I was thinking about my own husband
and how I was repeating so many of these patterns
and how to break free of them. And then at
the end of the day, I don't know how spiritual
(25:44):
you are, but I have become. I'm not religious, but
I'm deeply spiritual and I'm wide awake. I look for signs,
and one sign for me as a rainbow. And I
had this moment where I was like outside and they
had us essentially imagine like our death, like our death
taking one road, which would be the ego driven not
(26:04):
taking the hard choices, you know, and eventually you die
and who comes to who comes to say goodbye to you?
And the point being like not a lot of people
because they're sick of your same fucking complaints your whole life.
And then you imagine essentially your death when you are
being courageous and you're being brave and you're putting yourself first,
but not an egotistic way, but you know, like you're
(26:26):
not wearing the arm or you're showing, you're showing up
and being seen. So it's pouring rain in Pedaluma. They
have you outside and I'm imagining my death, and I'm
imagining my I was still married, my then husband, and
I imagine and there are all these pug puppies running
around because I just lost my dog and it was
a celebration, and so I imagine my husband off to
(26:46):
the side, and then I imagine another woman with him.
This is all just my eyes are closed in my imagination.
I imagine this and there's this man standing in the crystal
blue waters. I'm in the Caribbean in my head, and
there's this man holding my ashes. And I don't know
who this man is, but it's not my husband. And
in the end, there is this giant and my eyes
are closed. There's this giant rainbow that appears over the
(27:08):
Caribbean sea and Ashland, I open my motherfucker eyes. In Petaluma, California,
the rain stops and there is an actual rainbow that
forms in the distance over the hills and I at
this point, I am just weeping buckets of tears. And
(27:30):
my first instinct is to like look around, like does
anyone else see the rainbow? Like does anyone? Does anyone know?
I'm like making these crazy gestures and and then I
realize that, like maybe this rainbow is for me, and
I'm worthy of the rainbow all to myself. And I
had these rings made. This is Drew Jewelry, shout out
(27:52):
to thea here in La and it's I had her
right on the inside of these rings. It goes from
dark black diamonds to white, and it says I'm worthy
of the rainbow all to myself on the inside, and
I say that out loud to myself every single day
I wear these because that's when I knew that I
was so supported and I knew that I would be
(28:14):
okay leaving my marriage and being on my own. And
that was my moment. Wow, that was my moment.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
That is beautiful and I appreciate you sharing that because
I think that the universe will always present something to us. Yes,
I am a firm believer that things happen for us,
not to us. Yes I do. I really think that
(28:44):
your journey and your process led you to that moment, yes,
to show you that you are worthy and that you
are enough and all of these things. But you chose
to go. You chose to open your heart when it
could have easy been shut off from the trauma and
the pain and the constant just whiplash of every turn
(29:08):
you took, something was met with like a brick wall
in front of your face, and you were still open
to receive. And I think that's beautiful and I think
that's special, and I think that is why you are
on the other side of things right now. Like I
what I will say is your physical appearance has absolutely changed.
(29:32):
You look fit, you look vibrant. You're just really investing
in your spirituality, your physicality, your emotional well being. And
then I know you do you look in here. But
happiness looks good on people, and it's not performative, Brooke.
No one knows it more than I do. You know,
(29:55):
like you and I are public figures. We have to
perform in terms of showing every everyone everything's good, We're good,
we're strong women. So I think the difference is you're
no longer performing. You drop the rope, put the bucket down,
and you're open to receiving the kind of love and
(30:15):
kindness and tenderness you always imagined.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I love you for that, thank you for seeing me. Yes,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
But you were willing to receive and someone walked into
your life that probably changed it forever.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
It was like the heavens parted and the and as
if on cue. And at first I was like I
could my body felt it before my sort of intellect,
and I just was. I was just open to it
and was listening and needed to, Like you know, I
(30:50):
needed to close out one chapter and open the next
and there was a little bit of overlap and and
just in terms of like me saying I love you,
but I've got to let you go and then pursuing
this other potential, beautiful human and and that's okay, Like
I'm okay with that. And yeah, his name is Peter,
(31:14):
and he is if I was sort of coming from
a spiritual desert. He is a motherfucking rainforest.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
He is so lucky a thank you, but he's just
so genuine and so sweet, and.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
So he's a man.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
He is a I mean when I first met him,
I like wrapped my arms around him because I know
I've lived it. I've lived the same pain. I've lived
the same sacrifices. I've lived the hardship of saying I
can't do this anymore. And I know the pain it's
(31:57):
going to cause someone, and it's really really hard. And
I think what people don't realize and what I'll say
is the best thing I ever did in such a
broken state was still open my heart to receive because
I would have never I was in the darkest moment
(32:18):
of my life. I did not deserve Sophia at all.
I don't know why she stayed around when I was
half of a human and broken because I couldn't offer
the things I wanted to offer at my best. So
I want to talk about that because it was I
think for a lot of us, we talk about, well,
I'm not ready for this? Are you ever really ready?
(32:41):
Is it ever? The perfect timing? And I think back
and I talked to my therapist a lot about this
because I kept being like, this feels very early and
soon to feel this way, yes, And I was so
scared about how everyone else receive it and how this
and that.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Because you've been so public facing as another couple.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yes, And as much as I was set on fire
for how quickly, I really knew that this was important
for me and special. So the greatest thing I ever did,
because if I would have said no, my life would
have been so different. And I'm finally experiencing the joy
I always imagined. And I'm not going to apologize for that.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
As I'm listening to you, I want to share it.
So I was up in Toronto a couple weekns again
for this like magic and Creativity workshop with the goddesses
who is Liz Gilbert and Martha Beck Okay, and one
of them I literally wore my phoenix ring because for
us and for our journeys and because of this story,
(33:47):
and so one of them was essentially saying, like, the
difference between feeling stuck and feeling free, which is where
we are right now, is telling the truth. And imagine
a bonfire in front of you. There are two ways
it's gonna go. You Either are gonna step into the
bonfire and you're like, oh, this doesn't hurt, like this
(34:08):
is kind of a nothing burger, like I'm fine, doesn't
leave any marks. The other option is you step in
the bonfire and it burns you to pieces and you
become dust, and then you emerge like a fucking phoenix. Yes,
this ring, I wear it to remind myself of this,
but no matter what, in order to be free, you
(34:29):
have no choice but to step into that bonfire. And
we stepped into the bonfire willingly. No one coerced us,
but we knew we were not living these aligned, truthful lives.
We were not. We just weren't. And everyone knows that
feeling when you're like trying to convince yourself every day
(34:49):
and you're trying to get up out of bed and
you're like, is this how it's supposed to feel and
you don't have evidence. I'm such like a journalist. I'm like,
I need information, I need data, like what is this
going to be if I do X or why? And
you just know that feeling. It's the opposite of uigui.
And once you acknowledge the truth to yourself of what
(35:11):
is not okay and what is not acceptable about your
own life, and you you you like, we did burned
the fuck up.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, you know, Brooke, It's so crazy to me. It's
so fucking crazy to me that you and I not
only are we so aligned and so similar, but we
use the same language and we're not around each other
that much. Because there was a moment where Sofia was
just absolutely in tears because everything went public and everyone
(35:42):
destroyed me and turned on me and made everything very
a false And no one knows this more than you.
It's like everyone wanted clickbait. I was the easy yes target. Yes,
you know she is this person, you know my ex
is this person, and then all of us I became
this bad boy cheater and this and that, and it
(36:04):
just was so far from the truth and it was
so hurtful, and Sophia kept being like, you have to
tell your truth, you have to say something, and I
was like, I have two kids, like I want to.
It was hard enough waking up every day through the unravelings,
which we're going to get to. I had to put
(36:27):
I had to realize waking up was enough, and I
was raising two kids alone and I had to put
one foot in front of the other every day, and
I was fucking burning alive. The media was torturing me.
My teammates and friends wanted because of cancel culture. They
wanted fucking nothing to do with me. It was the
best thing that could happen to me. Yes, because it's
(36:50):
so fucking interesting. The few times I went to friends
to talk about my experience about why I left in
my marriage to justify it, which is fucking ridiculous I
have to do anyways, everyone projected their own experience on me,
not surprised, and I just went I shut everyone out
(37:13):
because it had to be my choice. It had to be.
I didn't want to be swayed. I didn't want to
want one person to tell me this and want based
on their own experience. And it was so fucking clear
to me that every person I peeled apart the layers
and became wide open with just really inserted their own
(37:34):
experience on mine and weirdly enough made it about them
and I shut everyone out. And Sophia was like, you
need a support system, you need these people. Just tell
them the truth. People know you at your core, they
know you're a good human and finally you know now
(37:56):
that we're on the other side. I told her not
long ago, Sofia. Yes, I told Sophia not long ago.
And that's where I'm circling back. I said, I'd gladly
burn alive again to have you and have this life
because I shed the fat. Yes, I found out who
my fucking friends were and who the who weren't. And
(38:18):
now I burnt everything to the fucking ground. And now
I am growing these beautiful parts of me that were
so restricted, that were it felt impossible to achieve right.
And I say this often.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I had to.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I had too two realizations. I guess when I was
unraveling and I was in the thick, it was I
was going to drop the rope or I was going
to put it around my neck. Yes, And I felt
like the second I dropped it and I ran, I
felt like everyone from my community and my ex wife
(39:01):
at the time, put it around my neck, torched me,
set me on fire, and kicked the chair from underneath me.
And when I sat and struggled in my most darkest moments,
people just watched and it became blood sport. And it
was so hard for me to understand because I did
the bravest thing I ever could have done, and I
chose myself.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Right, Like, where's my tick or tape parade?
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Not only that, but where's my aunt Grace? Yeah, where's
the understanding of you don't know the life I lived
within those walls.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
I'm so sorry you went through all that.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
And also and now I'm a motherfucking phoenix.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yes, your motherfucking phoenix.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
And there's no playbook people think that, Oh you know,
this is what I got a lot. I didn't like
how you did it. I didn't like how it went down.
I didn't like it was my choice, Like there's a
perfect time to drop the rope.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
And like they knew what it was like to be
in your shoes. Yeah, yeah, let it burn, baby, that's
what it says on the inside of my fings ring.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
God, it lets you speak to my soul in a
way that like I just can't even exp rest sometimes.
But I want to hear about the unraveling. I want
to hear about because your writing is so beautiful and
it's so real and it's so raw, and I I
you know, if anyone you know our listeners out there,
(40:15):
go check it out clearly, But I want you to
talk about it because even why that why unraveling? Why
Because it's such a powerful word and it's so clear.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Why for me?
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Because I've been around? Yes, but tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I love you for asking. I mean I am very
much so still unraveling. I think my unraveling started with
the dropkick out of CNN, out of my dream job
and moving me into where I am. But the unraveling continues.
And you know, people think of an unraveling, it's an
un it's a it's a it's to come apart. But
to me, it's to actually free yourself and to tell
(40:53):
your truth. And so I refer to my own unraveling
coming out of CNN. I'm writing the Substack, which is
bringing me so much joy for everyone listening, if you
just go to it's unraveling with me, Brooke Baldwin And
so I write every Sunday and I write about various
pieces of my unraveling and how I've been able to
unravel because I believe that everyone is either wants to unravel,
(41:13):
is in the throes of unraveling, or has unraveled, and
it can be and unraveling can be at the frying
pan to the forehead is what I refer to, or oprah.
It talks about like the brick and the wall, or
you know, something that you choose, or something that feels
that's done to you that you are definitely not asking for,
that feels like some sort of existential crisis. It can
(41:33):
be marriage, it can be work, it can be health,
you know, illness, et cetera. And how we respond when
life hands us a shit sandwich. I can't get enough
from people and their own stories. And I so appreciate
you being so open about your own about like, and
we're all unraveling local what's happening in America. Look at
(41:56):
what we're being handed. How are we going to hand?
Like instead of making decisions from fear, Let's make decisions
from curiosity, Let's like lean into our goodness. Let's you
know when you unravel. When I've unraveled, and I know
you've experienced this too. It's like you think you have
this whole set of friends that you've had for forever,
and you realize suddenly, like, oh, those people aren't actually
(42:20):
my friends, and these are the ones who stood by me,
and I'm going to collect some of these friends over here.
It's about what I do for my body to continue
to be healthy and at peace, unraveling how I live
my life, the company I choose to keep. It's so
many pieces of it, and I'm just so interested in
people's stories and how in their life pivots and because
(42:44):
everyone stands to learn something, I think there are a
lot of people who feel stuck. I think COVID is
a huge part of this in ways like we still
have yet to really figure out, Like we had these
quiet still moments in the middle of the pandemic, and
you know, I had my own sort of come to
Jesus with certain ways I was living my life that
I wanted to change. But then life went back and
(43:08):
just like little ants, we went back to our lives
and we went back to our old choices. And I
think only now a couple of years removed, or at
least some women in my friend group are like, fuck,
I'm ready to I feel on the precipice of real change,
and I just want to talk to women and men
about those changes and their courage and what the other
(43:30):
side looks like.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, I'll be back in just a moment after this
brief message from our sponsors. When you talk about the
other side, I'm curious to know, once you burned everything
(43:55):
to the ground, who is this new Brook? What have
you learned and about her? What are you now not
willing to compromise? What has changed in you now to
receive such a healthy relationship and open relationship, your physical health.
You know, I see you all the time doing yoga
(44:15):
and you're now spiritual, like more than ever. Like, who
is this new Brook? What did you What has really
changed inside you?
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Who is just Brooke? Just Brook is someone who has
no tolerance for inauthenticity. If I smell it, I can't
be around it. And I know that's hard because sometimes
you have to work with people who aren't their best selves.
And I've definitely done that in my past, and sometimes
(44:50):
we can't choose, But as best as I can, I
surround myself with people who are as authentic as humanly possible,
who who live in full integrity. Martha Beck truly changed
my life when I read her book about you know,
not telling a single lie, like she talks about going
on this integrity cleanse, meaning like how many days in
a row, how many months in a row, how many
(45:11):
years in a row can you go without telling even
a single fucking lie? And so I subscribe to that
theory of like just being in full integrity. That's my
prayer every day, So being an integrity, not being around
in authenticity and saying yes to things that feel in
full alignment with me. And also like realizing that some
(45:32):
of that means moving slower. I don't run at ninety
miles an hour like I used to. I would look
at this girl and be like, girlfriend, what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (45:41):
You know?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
But I have slowed down to be able to open
my aperture and make wiser decisions. I say no a
lot more. I feel like I let my hair go wild,
like girlfriend, I had to do like blowouts and all
the things like mandatory for my old job. And now
(46:04):
it feels like some sort of you know, like lame
rebellion that I'm letting my hair be naturally curly, but
you know, having my outside to match match my inside,
Like wearing clothes. I want to as simple as like,
you know, putting on pants and cool shoes and the
things that I really want to wear that feel right
for me, and not putting on what felt like maybe
a costume, and being super curious, always asking the questions.
(46:33):
My circle is never closed. I always want to meet
new people and bring them into the fold. Dying to
have a double date. We have so much to discuss,
so much to discuss, and yeah, just deepening my spiritual
practices and being with a partner who meets me there
and then some ooh that's a big one, like someone
(46:56):
I fucking respect. And the sexiest part of about my
man is his wisdom.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Oh I love that, it really had. You're so light,
like you're just light, You're moving like you're happy, and
it's it's so beautiful to see. But also like you
put so much work into yourself, into choosing yourself. And
(47:24):
I think that's something that our audience can always take
away is we are so branded as women to say yes, yes, yes,
yes yes and sacrifice ourselves we can. The first fucking
thing I heard from everyone is what about your kids?
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (47:44):
What about me?
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Can't even get out of bed. I'm driving my car
figuring out how I could flip it every day because
I just wanted it to end.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Where you were going there, I was, Oh, I was there.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
I was there. And that's the heart part is you
know when people are like, this is so sudden, this
is so have you really thought through it? Have you
done this? Like I have thought about every option, even
that point of I'm so scared to get out. I'm
so scared to do the hard thing. It's so selfish
(48:23):
and how do I just end it? And it's like,
that is why we have these conversations. That is why
I am doing this show. That is why it's called
wide Open, because our pain can be turned into light.
And it was really, really dark, and I'm sure it
(48:44):
was very dark for you, and the Phoenix part is
so true. It's I got really comfortable in the dark
and I didn't run from it, and when I needed
to rest, I rested. And the most the biggest thing
I'm proud of is I didn't make my storm my
(49:04):
children's mmmm, well done, mom. And I'll never get credit
for that, clearly, and I'm not looking for credit. But
when a world judged me based on doing the hardest thing,
and I was in such a dark, broken place and
I had no one or anything. I chose to show
(49:25):
up and be the best possible parent I could, and
that probably was life saving.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
As I'm listening to you, I think it's worth like
telling if I may be the journalist for a second
and ask you the question, Mash, because once you are
wide open and you have or maybe we are constantly unraveling,
to just let people know what it tastes like to
be living the life you're living now, Like why becoming
(49:56):
this phoenix? Like what it really feels like, because by
the way, everyone listening deserves it can feel it. It
is out there for everyone, like when you like when
I wake up in the morning, when I go to bed,
I am so excited to drink coffee with my man
on our front steps. I have never been more excited
to just sit and drink coffee with someone in my
entire life. I get so much joy, and that is
(50:17):
just the beginning of my day. Yep. What is the joy?
What are those little moments that y'all enjoy so much
that you would have never experienced had this never happened
for you.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
I never thought I think I was brainwashed by culture.
And what people always told me is you can't have
it all. You have to compromise this. No one has
a perfect relationship. It takes work, it takes this. And
I had this idea of how I wanted to be loved,
(50:51):
and I love hard, and I got to a point
where I just gave up. I gave up that that's
not the type of love I'm gonna receive, which made
me shrink, which made me have shame, which made me
feel unlovable, unwanted. And now I wake up and two
(51:14):
days ago I wake I woke up next to Sophia,
and I looked at her and I said, I missed
you like I missed you. Slept next to me and
I couldn't hang out with you for eight hours and
I missed you. And it is that kind of love
I love I never thought was possible. Yes, Yes, I
(51:35):
used to self medicate. As soon as my kids went down,
I put I smoked as much as I could, I
ate as many gummies as I could because I was
just it was so painful. I numbed and it was
like I had sleep doctors come in with the national team.
(51:56):
I never could sleep I had this really hard, hard
issue with insomnia. The second I started really feeling safe
with Sophia and the second I slept next to her.
I think at one point I slept sixteen hours. Damn
my I woke up and she thought she woke me
(52:20):
up because she was like, are you okay? For three
straight days, I just slept And I looked at her
and I said, it's the first time in my life
I feel safe, and it's the first time in my
life I could sleep.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Hellelujah and Sophia Bush, she does your body good.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
I just thought I had, you know, an issue with sleeping.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Yes, I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
My issue was the.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Person in your bed, yeah, and the person you were
with the person in your bed yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
And that to me, I am I moved differently. I
look different, Like I have so many people reaching out
to me being like I haven't seen you spy smile,
Like I'm posting pictures of me smiling. I'm like, who
is this happening?
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Who is she?
Speaker 1 (53:07):
But like I'm different, and that's the thing, Like, you know,
I I do feel that I have lost a lot
choosing myself.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yes I have.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
I've lost a lot of friends yes, I feel like
in my small the world, yeah, yes, in my small world,
people felt the need to choose aside. And I let
it go because if you feel like you're that invested
where you have to choose a side, you never were
(53:40):
my friend in the first place. And you know what
it is. It allowed me to open my heart to
new people. And it's the greatest fucking thing I've ever done.
I will say this, I would have never met Renee
Stubs and she is a gift to this world. Was
a Renee. It's just she didn't have to. She didn't
(54:01):
know me well. And you know one thing, and I
sobbed at her birthday. We were all talking about a
story about Renee and I. Last Thanksgiving was the first
time I didn't have Thanksgiving with my family and my
ex wife had the kids and I was alone. And
she goes, pack your shit. I'm driving to pick you
(54:24):
up in New Jersey. We're going to Pennsylvania. I'm taking
you to Carson's Farm. I'm gonna we're just gonna.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Go for walks.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
We're gonna have animals. It's just gonna be like us.
Oh she's the best, and I oh gosh, I cried.
I woke up.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
I cried, You'll never forget that.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
I'll never forget the way she showed up for me.
But it took so many people turning their back on
me for me to receive that kind of love and
be open to it. And I have some of the
best friends in the world who are new friendships that
I'll have forever. This love I have with this woman,
(55:03):
I mean, she is the you know, she always says this,
I am the sun to her, and now she is
absolutely the sun, the stars she is at all. I
genuinely mean, I genuinely mean this, Brook. I knew this
woman in another lifetime. I yes, I had to go
to I had to go through this pain to find
(55:23):
her against and I'm living the life I always imagined.
And fuck was it hard to get here what I
got here? And so did you? So what's next? What's next?
Brooke Baldwin?
Speaker 2 (55:37):
Take us home?
Speaker 1 (55:38):
What's next?
Speaker 2 (55:39):
So I'm writing this substack about unraveling. I'm hoping to
parlay it into a book. I am hoping to also
host a podcast around the similar themes. So sister, get
ready to be on the other side of the microphone
with me, gladly, and you know, one thing I did
after leaving CNN, which I was like, I couldn't say
(56:00):
these words out loud for a minute. But I hosted
a reality show and by the way, it was so
much funticks. It was so fun. I got to smile
on TV again. It's called the Trust If anyone wants
a good, good binge, and you know that show isn't
getting reupped, and that's okay. It just like opened the
door for me in a whole other way. And so
I'm kind of obsessed with the Golden Bachelorette. I'm just
gonna manifest something right now on this show. I'm not
(56:22):
saying I want to host The Golden Bachelorette again or
whenever it comes out, but I would love I used
to I used to say I would never do a
dating show. I'd never host a dating show. I want
to manifest a grown ass like finding love later in
life for women and men in their forties, fifties, sixties,
to show that it's possible to talk about like the
(56:44):
uey guy feelings, to also talk about sex and pleasure
and you know, like how we deserve it, even if
after you've been married once twice three times, like we
all deserve to have our dessert and I would love
to host something like that because I am living that
and I want to show other people that they can
(57:04):
live it to I love that. So that's on my
shelf of manifestation and the rest, you know, I think
is in process. So that's what I'm up to.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
We are all a work in progress. Yes, we are
all unraveling. And thank you for being so vulnerable and
wide open. Thank you for coming on my show.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
I love you, girl.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
I love you so much to see the joy in
your eyes and.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
The way you got it. You got it as they say.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
And we're really doing it. And I'm proud of us
because it wasn't easy to get here and we're still
learning in real time.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
I'm proud of us too.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
Thanks for being here. Love you, I'm done. Wide Open
with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen Borca, Coreo, Maronoff,
(58:01):
and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive
producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our
editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder, and I'm your host,
Ashlyn Harris.
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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