February 3, 2025 • 62 mins
Ashlyn sits down with reality TV personality, former pro football player, and good friend, Colton Underwood. Colton surprised audiences in 2021 when he came out as gay after appearing on three seasons of The Bachelor. With Ashlyn, he talks through the process of accepting his sexuality, from being a closeted football player in locker rooms, to trying to find a wife on national television, to eventually choosing a better life and opening himself to love, marriage, and fatherhood.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Colton's thank you so much for being here, welcome to
my show, Wide Open. Having you are such a dream.
I immediately was like, God, I just want to like
pick his brain because so much of like our stories
are so similar and parallel, quite nice, and our journeys
of making us into the parents we are today, which
(00:33):
is another exciting thing I want to talk about New Daddy. Congratulations.
I actually started really diving into your story the last
week and I got to watch the Netflix doc and
I just learned so much about you that I had
no idea, and like, I consider you you endured and
such dear friends, and I was like, wow, give me
(00:55):
so much perspective of you know, who you were as
a young boy, who you were as an athlete, who
you were as a football player, and now on this
beautiful journey of parenthood. I like to ask everyone to
kind of break the ices. What moment in your life
really split you wide open? And it could be sports related,
(01:17):
it could be life related. Yeah, what was that defining
moment in your life?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Oh? Heavy?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I know, quite heavy, very quickly, but my.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Gut I instantly went to the first time when somebody
asked me, are you gay? And I said yes for
the first time. I think like that that is my
moment that I felt the most vulnerable. Wow, where like
I had always always always said no, scritted around, the
answer had some sort of curveball, and for whatever reason,
(01:49):
I was really struggling, and it was my publicist at
the time, and wow, there were some things going on
and it wasn't really making sense to him and he's
like and he just asked it. And for whatever reason,
I remember I was in my grandma's driveway in Illinois
on the phone with him, pacing nervously outside because I,
like I didn't know what was going on. Like I
was like frantic, and he's like, I'm going to ask
(02:12):
you something and like I just need you to know.
He was a gay man himself. He's like, I need
you to know you're safe, but like are you gay?
And for whatever reason I said yes, And it was
the first time, you know. And immediately after that, he's like,
Everything's going to be okay, and I was like, oh,
I was like what I immediately was like, how do
I take that back? And I didn't, but I was.
(02:33):
I just remember feeling so.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Vulnerable and probably so safe to even answer it truthfully.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah. I think I was just numb after I said it, though, too,
because I was like in shock that I actually like said.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
It, and that like brings me to really want to
dive into your story, because I do, Colton. I think
you have a really beautiful story, and there's so much
beauty in the struggle, and I think we don't see
that until we look at life through the lens as
being a parent. And I think it's this beautiful journey
of struggle and beauty that build us into the humans
(03:07):
we are now to really be able to be good
humans for young children, and our perspective of life changes
so quickly it is a little bit like whiplash. I
want to hear about Colton as a young boy, who
he was, what made him pick up that football? What
(03:29):
was it about the sport that made you feel like
it was what you wanted to do for the rest
of your life.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, you know, I think I had this baby infant
photo of me wearing a seventy seven football jersey. Seventy
seven was my dad's number, and so I just think,
like it's always been in my DNA. I used to
joke that I was bred, not born, because my mom
was a D one volleyball player and my dad was
a D one football player, and they met in college.
(03:57):
They're both D one athletes scholarship athletes, and so I
always sort of had that joke that like, my parents
knew what they were doing by like getting together and
making my brother and I and I always sort of
knew sports were going to be in my future. And
you know, my parents created a household in which they
were like, you do not have to have a job
(04:17):
if you play sports you around, So in a weird
way as a kid, that was in my brain, I
was like, oh, I don't have to work, and like, also,
I can have some extra perpse if I play sports.
So I'm going to play sports. And I quickly fell
in love with basketball, track and field Baseball for a
little bit wasn't my end all where, but then football
came and I just loved being able to transform once
(04:43):
I put the helmet on, Like I was a completely
different player, completely different persona completely different man when I
had the helmet and the pads on, and I just
fell in love with that. And whether I don't whether
that's the right reasons or wrong reasons to fall in
love with the sport, I fell in love with it
because I was able to hide and I was able
to somewhat release my anger in a healthy legal way.
(05:06):
Yea of like hitting people like him and mother's sport
that you can like violently hit people and like release
built up aggression. And football allowed me to do that,
and it was something that I, like, looking back, I
probably think kept me alive. Like it just kept me
going and ended up being you know, my high school, college,
(05:28):
my life. And you know all that to be said,
I had incredible teammates, incredible coaches, Like there was so
much more than just like the release and like that
part of it that I took away from the sport.
And I would like, you know, this sports and football
specifically for me, I feel like parallels the ups and
downs of life. Oh yeah, and every you know what
(05:50):
is it? Average football plays four or five seconds, Like
sometimes it goes great, sometimes it doesn't, and you have
to get up and go to the next play. Yeah
that's life. Like things are going to happen and you're
going to fall short of expectations that people have for
you and you have for yourself. But then you like
get up and dust yourself off and keep going and
(06:11):
that's what I feel like. You know, I keep trying
to do with my life and I wouldn't. I don't
think I would have that same perspective if it was
in football.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It is so unique and so interesting how our sports
really do shape us. Yeah, and we have this unwavering,
undenying competitive spirit that is so magnetic, and you chase it,
You chase that thrill. And it's interesting when you say
I love football and I love putting the helmet on
(06:42):
so I could hide.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
You know, my escape for like through sport is because
I lived in a very toxic, troubling home as a kid.
There was a lot of fighting, There was a lot
of alcohol and addiction and mental health issues, and it
was my escape. It was a place where and I
played with boys and I smashed the shit out of
(07:07):
people all the time. And they finally were like, you
can't have any more red cards or yellow cards, like
you're breaking people's legs, were putting you in goal. But
you're right. It was such an escape for me to
get away from something that made me feel so small.
And I know it's totally different topics, and I would
(07:29):
assume yours had to be about your sexuality, at some
point when you were figuring out along the way. I
am curious, is that true to you? Is it where
you when you say you put that helmet on you
felt like a different person. Is it the one place
you could escape all of those thoughts of feeling alone
(07:50):
and ashamed? Or did you really not know why you
were different? You just knew you were different? No?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I knew why I was different once I hit high
school with pubertyreshman year. I think I definitely like started
to figure out what it was. But I think, you know,
looking back, you know you don't really like process. The
terminology that's loosely thrown around, and you and I have
(08:16):
spoke about this briefly before, too. Is like the male
sports sports culture for sure, And I'm sure I can't
speak to women's locker rooms and women's sports culture, but
homophobic slurs and also sexist slurs are like thrown around
in a negative way a lot in football, you know,
(08:36):
and even I mean baseball, like you play ball like
a girl, like from like our childhood, like famous lines
and movies. So I think for me, you know, I
could I never feel comfortable standing up or like, you know,
if anything I joined, I just wanted to blend it
in and I didn't want to like yeah, so like I
was part of the problem. I was contributing to it.
(08:57):
And I think I couldn't really process my emotions at
that time. I wasn't mature enough, and I don't think
a lot of kids at that age are mature enough
to like figure out how to process. So like disguising
myself and or venting through big hits or being able
to like be aggressive in my sport was the way
that I processed. And you know what always hurt the
(09:20):
most was the coaches because I was like, you know better,
like you are supposed to be like a role model
or somebody I look up to. Why are you using
that as like you know, a knock on me? Or
the way that I just play, Like if I had
a bad play, you know, why are you telling me?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
You know it's just tell me elaborate, like what I will?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I mean, like the like I have early memories of
you know, messing up a play and you know them saying, oh,
you're taking it up the butt or you're doing like
it was very aggressive like that is and that's like.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
A mild one locker room talk.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
That's like coaches to players. That's like thirty forty fifty
year olds talking to sixteen seventeen. I'm not even fourteen fifteen,
sixteen year olds. You know, being called you know, pussy
quite often is another one. You know, coaches saying that
(10:18):
you know, the player has a vagina instead of a pin,
Like that's real everyday locker room. And some people are
gonna laugh and roll their eyes and be like, yeah, right,
it's it's true, and like as innocent or I don't
even want to say innocent as like people like are like, oh,
you can't take it that personal, Like when it's done
one hundred plus times a day or a practice, it
(10:39):
gets to you.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
But it also is personal, is absolutely fucking because.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It's it was a private it's a private battle that
like I had to go through and the people who
were supposed to be there to protect me and like
look out for me as a person and as a
player were the ones contributing to it. That's like that
was the hardest part.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
That's hard for me to hear because it's not the
same clearly, and women's sports and you and I we
talk about this all the time. It really drives me
crazy that in the women's game. So many of us
are identify on some spectrum of queerness. I would consider
(11:22):
well over half of us are gay. So that type
of language just doesn't exist. That type of communication from
coaches or fans just doesn't exist because a majority of
the people tuning into our games also identify as queer
or a part of the community. So it's just always
(11:42):
been a really hard topic that I always talk about
in the rooms I walk into. It's twenty twenty fucking
four and we still do not have active gay male
athletes saying this is who I am. I am A,
it's none of your fucking business. But B it doesn't
(12:03):
affect the player and person I am and how I
show up in this locker room. So it's just it's
so sad for me to see and hear stories that
minimize and shrink people and make people fearful. Colton, I,
if I heard that in a locker room, I would
never be able to be like, yeah, I'm gay, Like
(12:26):
that's just I would be like I would get smaller
and smaller and smaller. And it's a testament what I
will say. It's a you know, for you to show
up in the level in which you did, because I
consider us one percenters. Yeah, people do not live the
life we did. We were built to be machines and
we were built to suffer, which I'll get back to
(12:48):
because I'm trying to learn unlearn that, which is one
of my hardest things in there.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
We had that in common when we were talking with
My husband brought that to my tess. He goes, do
you know you do this thing like you don't say
when something hurts, like you just like take the pain
and like I can clearly see like it's hurting you,
but you like laugh it off. And I'm like, oh, no,
I never knew that, But like that's me being an athlete.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Like you're built to suffer. Yes, I just can't imagine
showing up into my locker room space and only presenting
half of myself to my team because so much of
it is based on trust and chemistry and you didn't
even fucking trust the people in that locker room while
they use terms like fagot and homo and getting it
up the butt and being the butt of a joke,
(13:33):
like I just can't imagine. And and forget having your
dad come from football, right your dad was a coach, ye,
dad coached you most of your life. You come from
extreme religious background. Yeah, like to see where you are
today is such a gift. And I'm so happy, Like
(13:54):
we're both sitting here and I'm so lucky to have
our friendship because I consider you like so near and
dear to my heart. What a fucking journey, Like, what
a journey for you?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I know, I I I always try to like say,
I live life with no regrets, but like one one
big one that I have, and look, I had. I
truly believe I had to go on the journey that
I went through. I had to make the mistakes that
I'm made so that my kids and other people don't
have to go through that. But I wish that I
would have been out when playing because I would have
(14:28):
loved because trash talks part of the game. Yeah, I
would have loved, love, loved love to put somebody on
their ass and then tell them that you know that
derogatory mark, just put him on his or like be
able to just have a comeback or a whip and
just be able to like level the playing field a
little bit, Like you're going to keep using words that
(14:50):
you feel like are going to tear me in my
community down and like here, I am kicking your ass
every single day. I would have just loved to have
that moment, to be able to like talk some trash
back to them as an out player, because then their
words mean nothing. Then they're like their insults aren't insults
because who they're implying is weaker and lesser than them.
(15:14):
Just beat them. Yeah, So that's that would be like
the one thing that I wish, if I can go back,
I would have like, well had had that. You know,
I'm I'm confident that eventually there will be a stud
quarterback or a stud college player that is openly by
or openly gay. And it's just sort of like, yeah,
(15:34):
it's somewhat like I'm but I'm like, it just does
this thing. Yeah, and it's not a big deal, but
it is a big deal to so many people. I
think it's just all it's gonna take is one.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Well, I think that's it, right, So the visibility piece,
And I know we talk about this a lot, especially
in our community, you know, I know there's so many
things that we would love to do different. And I
wish if I saw more female athletes who looked like me,
who had my sexual identity. Like if I had more
(16:07):
visibility of what was possible, fuck, it wouldn't have taken
me so long to figure it out, And like I
wouldn't have I lived this life almost like a paperbag.
I kind of just fucking went like with this group
and I'm like, oh, I don't really fit in this,
and then it was like a chameleon. Yeah, I just
go and blend with all. I was so good.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
But that's the locker room, right, We're so good at
blending in so I could get into Like that's the
one thing I do miss. Everybody say, do you miss it?
I missed the locker room. And as painful as a
locker room was for me at times, I missed the
melting pot of cultures. Like one of my best friends
grew up in the hood of Milwaukee, and then I
(16:48):
have another guy who's from a rich Chicago suburb, and
then all of a sudden, you're playing with somebody from
South Florida, and then you have so like I got
slight more life experience in that locker room than any
part of my life and just got to hear their
stories and their struggles and what they went through and
gave me a whole new perspective because I grew up
in like a cornfield and the beanfield, Illinois. I didn't
(17:12):
have like we had like one hot kid in our
high school. So I didn't get to educate myself on
culture until I really got to college. And it was
such a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, And that's like, that's why we love it. That's
why it's so important. That's why sports teach young kids
so much. It's like, that's why it's so valuable total
being this incredible athlete, incredible young man. How did you
keep it so quiet? How did you walk into that
(17:45):
locker room? This masculine, handsome, big beefcake you are and
you still are clearly Like how did you hide that?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Like how how did you not get outed? How did you?
I mean, fuck, I went on one date with Sophia
and it was like headlines, hello, tabloids.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well there's no hiding that, And I think we live
in a different era.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Well that's true too, That's I'm just like, how did
you do it? Were you ever scared?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Were you like, oh, I was living I was living
in a spiderweb of lies. No, It's like for real,
in college, this is like a perfect example, in college,
I basically compartmentalized my high school friends, which I went
to college forty five minutes away from my high school,
so and there's a lot of people from my high
school who went to my university. I would never let
(18:36):
my high school friends really get to know my college
friends because when I wanted to explore my sexuality physically,
I would lie. They'd be like are you coming home
for the weekend. I'm like yeah, or no, I'm staying
at college. And my my friends at college where are
you going home? And I'm like, yeah, I'm going home.
And then I would like, you know, have yeah, have
my free time. But I never I never wanted them
(18:59):
to compare notes. So but then on top of it,
as I really learned and I don't love this character
trade about me, but like I really learned how to
control situations and all the way down to like I
had a folder and I'm not proud of this either,
but like I had a folder of topless women on
(19:21):
my phone ready to go to prove that I was straight.
And because that was very much the locker room of
like who, like who are you into? Now? Check this out?
And like it's very show offy and it's very if
you don't have that, something's wrong with you, like something's weird.
I just remember how proud they were that they were
like exploiting people, and then I felt really gross and
(19:41):
like changed the way that I went about it. But
like that was one of the ways that I sort
of felt like I needed to protect myself. It's like, oh,
if these other straight guys are acting this way, I
guess that's how I have to to like fit in.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So do you feel at that time? And I can't
imagine putting myself in that situation. However, when I was
in college, I would have a boyfriend and I would
be physically intimate with and then I would crawl out
of bed and go sleep in my roommate's bed because
I felt more emotionally safe. And that's when like I
(20:16):
started flirting a little bit with HM, Why do I
physically feel like I have to do this but emotionally
feel safe on this side?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And it see, I was the opposite really of you.
So I was more emotionally connected to women and physically
connected to me connected to men, So like I like
physically I can could separate. Like when I started to
first took up with men. I wouldn't talk, I wouldn't
(20:45):
ask their name, I wouldn't like. But that's also gay
culture is easier to get away with that. Yeah, for
any of our straight listeners or viewers out.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
There, like that you had an image to keep up.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I did, and like I even remember. So it's so
like my first tattoo that I got was this cross,
and I'm a Christian gay man, but like when I
was closeted, I really prayed to not be gay. I
wanted to be so straight, and part of it, I
think when I got this. I don't know if I
ever really talked about this, but part of the reason
I got across was I was like, Okay, this will
(21:18):
stop me from hooking up, because then people are going
to be able to identify me for my tattoos. Wow,
all I did was cover it up when I went
to go like do things. But it's so the mental
gymnastics that you have to do to justify the shame
that you have when you're in the closet and trying
to figure yourself out. Like that's the other thing is
like I truly just wish that I would have been
(21:40):
able to say, like, I'm confused about my sexuality. I'm
going to need a minute to figure it out, versus
going the route that I did of like a lot
of pain and suffering for myself and people in my life.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
We'll be right back. What makes me so proud of you,
and I have to say this is the fact that
you leverage your platform now to help because there's someone
right now who's dealing with the same things you did,
who still feel that that locker room is not safe
(22:21):
enough to be themselves. Yeah, and we are still being
I mean, men are losing their jobs when they actually
say the hard things, which it's not a hard thing,
it's a beautiful thing. It's who you are.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Well, can I tell you this after my show came out. Yeah,
there's a lot of people in my hometown that were
not happy that I aired the conversation that I aired
between the coach and me. And at first I felt
really guilty, and I was like, why did I do that?
Like I really just feel like I messed up friendships,
and like, the more I sat with it, and then
(22:56):
I started getting messages and messages from four kids on
tea on the team from my town who were out,
like not publicly out, but like who basically came out
to me and my dms. It's like, thank you so much,
Like I haven't told anybody, but like I'm on the
team and this is exactly how I feel right now.
That made it all worth it in my head. It's
(23:18):
like as much as much as people were sort of
coming from me, like how dare you trap him? Or
how dare you come for this program and these coaches
and all this, I mean, I suffered for how many
years of my life and not solely because of those people,
but like they definitely didn't help, but they're continuing to
do it and get away with it up until this day,
(23:42):
and like that's not okay. Yeah, So that that made
me feel better. And I do think, you know, when
the show first came out, it caught a lot of backlash,
and I obviously have learned so much more and I
have a completely different perspective now. But I do think
a lot of people from Middle America, in the middle
of our country are going to watch that and know
(24:04):
that they're not alone sports wise, because there isn't there
isn't you know, that much representation yet.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Well, Colton, Statistically, there are gay men out there.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I mean there were supposed to be. There was rumors,
there was rumors that there were supposed to be like
this group of gay NFL players that we're going to
jointly come out and like try to help. But then
one or two All it takes is one or two
people to back out, and then they don't feel ass safe.
So you know, I know there's gay people in the NFL, Well,
I'm sure you do, and they're just like waiting for
(24:37):
their careers to be done to come out.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Will we ever create change if we continue doing that?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
No males and once. The only reason I'm saying male
sports is because I feel like that's what I can
still do. I'm not going to ever speak for women.
But like, the male sports culture right now is so
homophobic that it's going to take a lot to change.
I have faith it can, but it is going to
take a lot to change it. And it is going
(25:04):
to take a five star, high score recruit that's maybe
openly by or openly gay, or it's going to take
a first round draft pick out of college to enter
into the NFL as an out gay out by man
to really change people's, you know, view and perspective of
(25:24):
queer men in sports and queer people in sports in general.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, I like I just I'm so hopeful for it
because I can't. And this is a genuine question. Do
you feel that and we don't. It's not that I
want you to feel like you have to go back
and you have to change anything. I genuinely want to
know if you, if you are the person you are now,
(25:50):
the Coulton you are now, the dad you are, the husband,
you are so sure of every part about you and
the growth you've had, if you, if you were to
go back, do you think your football career would have
been different? To bring your whole fucking self to the picture,
exactly who you wanted to be, exactly how you wanted
(26:11):
to show up for that locker room and your teammates
and your coach. Do you think your career would have
been different? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I would have been better, I truly believe. I mean,
and I had two All American seasons in college. Like,
I would have played much looser, I would have practiced harder,
I would have felt more mental clarity. I just would
have brought a whole different level to me. That's like
it's sort of like that last gear that I never unlocked. Yeah,
(26:40):
and while I was playing both, you know, because my
story is I played a D one double a college
and then I went to the NFL for three years
and was on practice squads and I felt like I
was just spinning my tires. And I know why I
was spinning my tires because like, I couldn't level up,
I couldn't kick it to the next year, and I
couldn't do that because I couldn't be fully myself and
(27:01):
I sort of had to live this double life and
this shame and this stigma. So my answer to your
question is yes, but it would have been better. My
life and my career would have been better.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, And I hope that we can definitely get to
the point. And I love that you use your platform
to continue to push for change, and I mean, I
hope I see that in my lifetime as well, because
I want. It's such a beautiful gift to be at
such an elite level, and the emotional toll it takes
(27:32):
to be at the top is exhausting. Forget battling an
internal battle about showing up, exactly who the fuck you
want to show up to be. I can't imagine the
exhaustion and the energy you had to put in other
parts of your life instead of just focusing on your job.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, it's just yeah, there was a lot of like
I said, like I said, a lot of spiderwebs, Yeah,
that I had to. And it's just the other thing
that really sort of surprised me is after I publicly
came out, I had a lot of players that I
used to play with and teammates from college and pros
and coaches reach out to me and come out in
(28:13):
a different way of like just opening up about something
they felt shame or stigma around, from you know, drug
addictions to cheating on their wives and sort of like
find the safety with me that I really realized. You know,
the sports culture isn't very vulnerable. We all are built
for pain, and we're built with this armor to like
(28:36):
not let people know that they're getting to us. So
why would we ever be emotional or vulnerable with our
teammates Because we're weak, That's what they tell you. And
I think that hopefully has changed. I like to think
that's changed a little bit, and I think that has
to do a lot with people feeling more comfortable talking
about their mental health because that it's also a bridge
(29:00):
to like communicate openly with like what's leading to those
mental health challenges. You know, for me it was my sexuality.
For other people, that can be a handful of other things.
And I think we're slowly getting better there.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, I definitely agree, And I think, you know, mental
health is such a valuable part of this. And I
know you and I are both very big advocates in
the mental health space for a reason because we've been
through it, and we've been through a ton of pain
and hardship, and I think it's so admirable and important
(29:34):
for a very masculine man to be able to be
vulnerable and show that you have scars and you want
to share those scars so other people, you know, maybe not,
they don't have to take the same journey and pain
you did if you use your voice for good. You know,
we're on this whole topic about football and the NFL.
(29:55):
And then you retire and you decide to do The Bachelor, Yeah,
a part of the franchiser and three different parts of
The Bachelor, Bachelorette, Bachelor Paradise, your own show. Do you
feel that was your breaking point and how hard was
the transition of now you're this big public figure. Yeah,
(30:17):
you know, because football you can hide. You got a
helmet on, especially football, no one, you know, not many people.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
The Bachelor was my helmet. Yeah, I think, I mean,
it definitely wasn't my breaking point. If anything, it was
false hope. It was. It was contributing to the same
sort of logic of I'm going to pray the gay away,
I'm gonna make this show is going to convert me,
I'm going to be straight, I'm going to fall in love.
And it was also confusing, and I think it's important that,
(30:45):
like I I've done a lot of therapy and work
through this, and at first I didn't really want to
talk about it because I didn't want to confuse people.
But like it was confusing to me, and I think
you'll relate to this. It's like I was attracted to
some of the women. Yeah, but I'm a big energy guy.
Like a lot of the way I'm on my season
had masculine energy, and like it just like we vibed.
There was like there was nothing. I don't know how
(31:06):
else to explain it. I was in the back of
my mind physically knew I was missing something. Yeah, but
I was going in it with pure intentions of like
I'm going to be come straight and this show is
going to help me. And I obviously was wrong with that,
but like that was my mask, that was my helmet,
you know. I just jumped from one crutch to another. Yeah,
(31:27):
that's all I did. And now I realize that, but
I just you know, and as far as like adrenaline
goes to like I sort of matched the same. Like
it's hard to recreate sports adrenaline, right, like when you
step on to the green and like you step onto
that field and all of a sudden you're flooded. Oh yeah,
(31:47):
that that spike.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Right, Oh god, you're.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Chasing that for the rest of your life when you're
done playing. When I got in front of a camera
and they miked me up and I knew, like we're recording, I.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Got the same, only just fucking explore.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I love this. I love the entertainment industry, Like this
is gonna be this is sort of my hit, Like
I like.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Pressure, yeah, and I could see that.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, I mean it's just a whole different you know.
The one thing I'll say is like it was just
a whole new level of fame, like playing football, I
had a name for myself in the sports community. But
then all of a sudden, now you're on ABC. You know.
For me, I recorded three shows in one year, and
I'm on back to back to back hit shows. All
it did was make it more difficult for me to
(32:34):
physically explore then and explore my sexuality when I was
single and not dating anybody in between shows, which I
was doing. It just made it a little bit more challenging.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I I mean, I can imagine because you were everywhere and.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah it was on I mean when I had my
show too, it's like Times Square, billboards and like out here,
but like I'm I don't know how you know somebody
at some point it's like wait, you know. But yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Also think what's very important is, and I say this often,
is like you don't have a playbook. You don't have
a playbook to come out, you don't have a playbook
to live out a very public separation, divorce, split from Cassie. Like,
there's no playbook. And when when I saw you take
(33:28):
off running on that fucking show, it made me think
about my life and my situation and my relationship. Because
as soon as I knew as soon as the aha
moment hit, I fucking ran and I ran so fast,
(33:50):
and I hurt a lot of people in the process,
but it was literally life or death. It was literally
life or death for me. There was no for me.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
People will never understand that. And I think that that's
something like I it took me a while to be
able to vocalize it, and it's incredible that you already can.
But like, was it good? No? Was it harder than
hell for me to like go through what I did?
And yeah, and I made a ton of mistakes and
I did a ton of things that I never wanted
(34:22):
to and I like it just makes my skin cross
even like look back, but I had to go through that,
like it was a life or death situation, and like
I had to figure myself out. I just yeah, it's
just it came at the expense of a lot of people,
and you and I have to take the accountability and
like like own that. But now I'm just like I
(34:44):
look back, and I mean, you're obviously the healing journey
never stops, like you're you're gonna be on it for
a long time, but like you're well on your way,
and I just know that, and it's I'm really excited
for myself and excited for you too, but like, yeah,
it's it's a challenging thing.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
It really is beautiful because you've gone through this incredible
journey and I appreciate you sharing so much of it
with me, and then you decide to come out.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, to be completely transparent. It's like I I was
publicly the reason why it was sort of backwards my
coming out process. I came out to my team and
for people like my business team. Yeah, like my publicist
was the first person. Then I came out to my management,
and then I came out to my agents, and I
(35:39):
had to do that because there was I was being blackmailed.
So I was like trying to figure out, Okay, if
this goes to the press, I need somebody to help me.
And I'm not ready. Like the thing that I think
people are like, well, why didn't you just ask you?
I wasn't ready to come out to my mom and
my dad yet, and like I have gone to them
for everything in my life, but like, for whatever reason,
I trusted my gut. I wasn't ready to come out
(36:00):
to my family. It would have been too much for
them to process, I think because like I just put
them through three television shows about finding a wife and
I could not do that to them where I was
like I was not ready and I just didn't feel it.
So I had to come out to them and they
had to like help guide me, and they did, and
the show opportunity for the Netflix part came up and
(36:23):
we had I had gone back and forth if I
was going to do it several times and I finally
said yes. And ultimately the reason why I decided to is,
like I live such a you know, I lived such
a straight life on camera and like through my straight
sexuality into the universe that I needed to try to
(36:46):
fix it was the way that I justified it in
my head of like, Okay, like now I have to
really own who I really am. As hard as this
is going to be, I have to do this and
it's going to be messy and it's going to be
ugly at times, but like I have to let people
in on that, Yeah, because they got to see this
polished suit and tie bachelor who you know wasn't the
(37:07):
most authentic and was like really confused in trying to
like fix himself. It's important that they see this version too.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah. So wow, is this why you became such a
big advocate in the mental health space because I can't
imagine Colton this was easier.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, yeah, I think when and for me, where I
specifically focus on is advocating for college athletes, college level athletes,
because when I go back and sort of put a
finger on where it was, where it started was in
the locker room, whether it was you know, my senior
(37:44):
year of high school and or college, a lot of
my pain and a lot of my suffering could have
been prevented or minimized if I would have started to
get help in college and trusted a therapist, because a
lot of these athletes struggle to feel safe enough to
(38:06):
tell somebody who is part of the university, who controls
their playing time, who controls their scholarship, who controls their life,
Like when you're on scholarship and playing at the collegiate level,
that is your life that you're struggling mentally because you're
afraid that since you are going through depression and or anxiety,
(38:30):
you're going to be benched. And that's just the reality.
And I think that's what a lot of athletes feel.
So advocating for more resources and to get rid of
the stigma and just say, somebody with anxiety and depression
could still go out there and kick assah and just
because they're going through that right now does not make
(38:51):
them less of a player or less of a human.
I think that's why I've become such an advocate is
because you know, my own experience, and also I hear
from and see a lot of athletes out there today
that are struggling.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And it's not just their sexuality, No.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
It's everything. That's one thing too that really shocked me.
It is, like, like I said before, people slide into
my dms and come out in different ways like hey,
I know, like I'm not gay, but this is what
I'm going through and it's and it's similar like the
coming out journey and like owning. It's it's all rooted
in shame. Like just people working through their shame and
(39:31):
the stigmas and our you know, culture and the societal norms.
Is something that I really realized is very common.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, once you finally drop the rope and you said,
you know what, even though you were forced a little
bit to do it, sometimes we just need a little nudge.
It was the best I like, did it change everything
for you?
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Did it?
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Just the weight of the world and the.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Eyes I never I sort of dropped it after I
came out of like pursuing who the emails came from,
who the pictures were threatened from, because I got so
obsessed with that, because it was like, I need to
find who's doing this to me and make sure it
doesn't get out. Like I'm sort of like, I dropped it,
and I was like, I'm sort of grateful they pushed me. Yeah,
(40:16):
I really am. I might not have been ready, but
like what I was ready for was like I had
the right team and people around me who protected me
and helped me and were there for me. And I'm
proud of that and I'm glad that they gave me
a little nudge.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it led you to
meeting Jordan and real it really feels that it changed
your life for the best. Stay tuned.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
So how did these challenges lead you? Because I adore
you and Jordan. I am like the smile that goofy
grin on your face right now tells me everything. I
need to know because he's the fucking best I The
second I met both of you, it was like immediate.
(41:18):
I just remember walking in you both walked into the kitchen,
and we just like wrapped our arms around each other.
I think, because it's not like a painful hug, it's
a I see you. We understood each We understood each
other right away.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I met him at the rap party of my Netflix
show Wow, so like I and I very vocalate you
to people too, is like I'm not looking for a relationship,
and all of a sudden I meet him and then
two months later we're on the same trip and he
helps me through it. And then like we go to
release the show and it's met with a ton of
backlash and I've like I had been through it, but
(41:57):
like I never experienced that, and experience it from the
gay community too, where like they were condemning me and
coming for me, and obviously the Bachelor fans were confused
to why I was like so publicly coming out, and
all of a sudden, I had this rock of like Jordan,
and it just made us obviously even stronger, and I
(42:21):
just fell more in love with with him more than anything.
And I think like that's like what I can see
with you two is like as hard as it's been,
you have a rock in Sofia. Absolutely, I mean it
doesn't get much better. And the thing that I can
say is like Sophia and Jordan are very good friends too,
so like they're from the same cloth, yes where their
(42:42):
writer dies, and you don't want to get on their
their bad side, because they will stick up for the people,
like their family and the lives they love heart, the
love heart. I get to watch that every single day
with him.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
The universe presents you with a beautiful gift and it's yours,
even in your most broken, vulnerable, suffering state, whether you
take it. And you know, you always talk about this
life that you've always wanted with children, you know, being married,
(43:17):
really living with full purpose and as your full self.
And I really feel like you're doing that. And I'm
so happy that you now are this new father and
I'm sure it gives you such a different perspective. And
you know, as you said in the in the Netflix
special about your dad, was very much so a coach
(43:42):
a lot in your life. And not that he wasn't
the best father figure, he just was coach right and
now that you're a father, because I say this a
lot being a parent and looking through the lens as
being a mom. I forgave my parents immediately, because even
though it's the greatest thing I've ever done in my life,
(44:03):
it is the hardest and people don't realize it until
you start becoming a parent. And lucky enough for both
of us, we do live privileged lives where we have
access to things our parents never dreamed of and they
still managed, worked it out, worked two jobs, did all
(44:23):
these things so we would have the best. And I'm
just wondering, has your perspective on life now that you're
married and you have beautiful bishop, has it changed? Is
there anything now that you're like, I want to be
this kind of dad because I know what it's like
(44:44):
on this side, and I want to give this world
to my child where he is safe enough to be
in a locker room potentially one day and be exactly
who he wants to be. Like, just do you think
about that now being a father?
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, I think I have a responsibility, and I think
I've always known that I've had a responsibility, but like
in a way, you know, I have a husband to
hold me accountable. And also to like help me take
the higher road at times. I mean, I'm sure you
can relate to this too, Like it's hard, like you
sometimes let the emotions and we did this as athletes too.
(45:22):
You sometimes let the emotions get the better of you
where you see something and you want to react quickly
and like defend yourself and like you know, punch back, yeah,
and sometimes having that voice. And for me, it was
Jordan during time, during my hard times of like leveling
me out and calming me down and saying, hey, this
is how we're gonna approach this. We're going to take
(45:43):
the higher road here. And I want to be that
version of myself, this current version with Jordan and like
all of the things he's sort of rubbed off onto
me for my son, and I want to be a
better example. I want to, you know, continue to keep
improving who I am. I want to set a good example,
and I want to I want him just to be
(46:06):
proud of who I am and what I'm putting out there,
especially since he's entered this world. I'm sure at times
he's going to when he's old enough, he can go
back and see what I've done in my athletic career
in the entertainment industry and stuff like that. But I
think it's important that from the moment he entered this world,
(46:29):
he sees like that I'm trying to lead by example
for him.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
It's so enjoyable for me to sit back and see
like how present you both are and how sweet and
kind and gentle, Like you're so gentle even though you
were built to be this machine who has taught to be.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Wait, I was so nervous for newborn. I think I
told you this when you came over here. I was
not expecting to be good because I was like, I
have these big, big hands. I'm I'm like athletic, but
I'm also like a little clumsy. Yeah, I'm like a
bowl in a china shop, right Like, I'm like this
big dude. So I was really scared. And then all
of a sudden he comes out and I'm like swaddling diaper,
(47:15):
like feeding my neck and chin as like I'm trying
to like get his booties back on. Yeah, I was.
I was really nervous, and all of a sudden, I
was like it just kicks in.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
You're natural, yeah, and you and you said, because you
have your own podcast, Daddy, hood, which I love. And
you've said this from the beginning, like you really feel
and you felt like you were born to be a dad.
You just have always wanted to be a dad. Of
course you're gonna like get it right. You're the sweetest,
most gentle human I know. Even though you've been in
(47:49):
this very masculine, very aggressive sports it's sort.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Of been healing to feel like I have some maternal
instincts and same with Jordan. He does too, Like that
was always something. Jordan and I feel like we balance
each other out in our feminine and masculine energies. We
were a really good mix. Yeah, but yeah, like the
parental maternal like whatever people with terminology they want to use, Like,
I just feel like it kicked in. Yeah, and I
(48:15):
was like, oh, we got this, Like this is this
is calming to know that you know you're going to
pick me up when I need you, and I'm going
to pick you up and you need me.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
And you know what I love too is you both
are so open on your podcast about you know, how
you chose to do this, and I think most people
actually don't know. So if you are open to sharing,
because it is such cool the way you and Jordan
went about this was so beautiful and your entire process
(48:44):
actually talking about it, because most men don't talk about yea,
the you know, the fertility process for us as gay,
same sex couples, it's difficult and it is very expensive,
and especially you and I like we're brainwashed a little
(49:05):
bit because we have cared for our bodies in a
way most people don't.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Like.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Trust me, when we walk into a room, people will
know we are athletes, and with that comes we eat right,
we sleep right, we still work out, we do cold plunge,
we do saana, we do all of these things. But
also we've done things to our body to be the
best at our sport that actually hurt, hurt the fertility process.
(49:30):
And you're so open about it because that had to
be hard when you wanted to start having children. They
were like, listen, your sperm count.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Totally is not like that. None like that what you're
alluding to. So when we first started this, and I'll
start by saying, like, oftentimes when you hear about fertility struggles,
immediately I think everybody's mind goes to, oh, she or
her fertility issues. No, men are fifty percent of the equation,
(49:59):
whether you like it or not, if there are if
there is anybody out out there that's struggling with fertility
right now, my number one advice before people get started
is please have the men, the husbands or both men.
If you're in a same sex relationship, go get tested.
Just know where you're at. Because it took us. It
took me six months. Jordan's numbers were good. It took
(50:21):
me six months to rehabilitate my sperm. And the top
contributing factors to my low sperm count slash no sperm
was daily hot tub slash hot bass. I love a
bath and exercising more than four times a week actually
harms your sperm production. I was pelotoning too, which bike
rides tend to do that. Yeah, sawn and steam room
(50:43):
and then taking tiestostrone or TRT replacement so tasosterone. For
those men out there that are taking it. While there
are plenty of benefit, you know, benefits to it, it
actually does work as like it sterilizes you. Essentially, it
tells your you know, your body to stop producing sperm.
So my numbers were really really low.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, and that's like got to be hard because this
is your journey. You're literally like I just.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
Want to be a dad, and anybody who's been on
the fertility fertility journey knows, like these fertility doctors are
very black and white like and they went on to
the next subject, and I was like, wait, hold on,
can someone hold my hand and cry with me for
a second, because I was expecting to like give my
sample today and be pregnant in nine months and like now,
all of a sudden, you know, it took Jordan and
I to over a little over two years to have Bishop,
(51:34):
and it was patience and resilience and like a lot
of start and stops and once again, that's life, that's sports.
And I don't like, I don't know if I hadn't
been an athlete, if I could have gotten through that
as strongly as I did, and what I.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Love the most, and I don't I don't think our
listeners know this, but you and Jordan did a Sarah, Yeah,
but you don't know whose sperm you actually ended up using.
That is so cool and so amazing and so special
(52:11):
because it doesn't make either of you feel like you
weren't a part of the process. It is beautiful. I
think it makes me want to weep because it is.
It's like so special and not many people think of that,
especially with same sex couples. Someone is getting left out
and that's hard.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Yeah, it was, and I think in a way when
we talked about it is we sort of did it
to protect ourselves one because we had been so public
with our journey. But what I noticed is, you know,
a lot of people don't understand when you for us,
for two men, our egg donor is different from our surrogate.
(52:49):
So the woman who gives us her egg her eggs.
We then fertilize with our sperm and then from there
we have our embryos, and then once those embryos are
tested and frozen, we then do an embryo transfer to
a surrogate, which is a completely different lady and woman
who is equally as incredible as their egg donor, and
(53:11):
she carries our baby to term. And we just told
our doctor, we were like, we know how many umbryroos
I have, we know how many embryos he has, And
we just said, hey, you put in whichever healthiest embryo
is and for the next one when we come back
to you, because we want to just put the opposites
in and we didn't really want to know. Because one
(53:34):
thing that bugs me and I talk about this a
little bit on my most recent episode of Daddyhood with Jordan,
was a lot of times people are innocent and curious
when they ask us a question of who. It's an
offensive question to ask sex couples, and honestly, I think
just couples in general, because even straight couples have fertility issues,
(53:56):
and I think people need to be a little bit
more mindful of that, of the question of but whose
is it really or whose child is it? Who's biomateial
because it feels in a way like you're disqualifying one
of the parents, and that's not okay because we both
went through a lot over two years to have baby
(54:17):
Bishop here, and we don't like to hear, you know,
offensive things, and we're sort of protective of our family.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
And I think also, what you're shedding light on, and
I think what people don't talk enough about is there's
two folds here. There's this beautiful thing you're doing with
your husband to bring a sweet human into this world,
(54:45):
and Bishop Kattie's so freaking cute, Yes, But the fucking
process and the money that it takes for people like
you and I. And you know, Sophie and I have
been dating now for almost you know, a year, and
where I'm thirty nine, she's forty two, and we have
to have these conversations now early in a relationship. She's
(55:09):
never had a child. I've never had a biological child,
and the amount of money it costs to do these steps,
not only for our community, but just families going through IVF,
it really opens the door to having this conversation that
why is it only people who have the means financially
(55:32):
to even do this get access to it? Like I
thought about freezing my eggs and I started going through
this loophole process and this hamster wheel of the process,
the time and the money, and I'm just like, who
can afford this? Like I adopted two children, Colton and
(55:55):
I spent a lot of money adopting some of the
most at risk children out there, And I'm just like,
how is this so hard? There's so many beautiful families
out there who just want to be parents like us totally,
who maybe they don't have the financial means to do so.
(56:15):
And do you ever think about that? Do you ever
think of how we can change that? And have you know,
access to bringing beautiful children into this world without having
financially financially.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
It's a huge like a couple of companies online because
I did a lot of research over my season one
of Daddyhood for women out there that are looking to
freeze your eggs, it's very expensive. There is a company
called Cofertility that if you're comfortable enough to donate half
of your eggs, they will freeze the other half for
(56:50):
you to use for free.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
WHOA.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
So it's it's an incredible, incredible company. I had the
founder on my podcast and it's called ho Fertility. So
they just help take the burden off of the expense
of freezing your eggs and so throughout you know, once
you get matched with the you know where your your
eggs are going to and who they're going to. They
(57:13):
schedule your egg retrieval and then the other half will
be frozen for you. So that's an option if you
feel comfortable with it. Another company that's really cool is
called Nordle. It's an app and I had their founder
on as well, and it's a surrogate matching program sort
of like a Tinder where you get to swipe and
(57:36):
it's just I'm just fascinated by innovative and companies that
are trying to change because unfortunately, in my opinion, I
feel like the industry, the fertility industry sees money through
our LGBTQ plus community. Absolutely, they see the dollar signs
(57:57):
and they know that, you know, we can have children
on our own, and they charge us enarnment a leg
and I think that's a problem. So I love all
of these different companies. And then the last one that
I'll shout out for men out there who might not
feel comfortable, and this goes for trans women out there
who are looking to freeze or sperm. There is this
(58:20):
company called Legacy Sperm, which is an at home sperm
testing kit. So if you do not feel comfortable going
into your clinic to get tested and to get your
sperm tested, you can request and get an at home
kit and they freeze your sperm for you as well. Wow.
So just I say that because parts of our country Oklahoma, Texas,
(58:40):
some of the southern states that you might not necessarily
feel comfortable going and getting your sperm frozen at there
is an at home you know, test and kit for that.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
I love that. I love that you've done so much
research and I know, but it's so important because there
are just things we don't know. And it's great that
you've really gone through this process and you're so willing
to continue advocating and sharing and making it easier for
people like myself. And I'm just so lucky to call
(59:11):
you a friend. And I know we're trying to build
our sweet little families out and build a future together.
And I hope we have this dream of being on
a farm.
Speaker 2 (59:21):
I was like, wait, where are we going? Are we
going there with this? Yeah? I just I want my
kids to play in dirt sa And I want them
to have like farm animals as friends. And I want
them to be able to ride their bike. I just
want them to have a really good childhood. Yeah, And
I think, I don't know. I just want them to
have like responsibilities and chores and uh not feel like
(59:43):
they have to, you know, compete for attention. And I
live It's no secret I live in LA and like
it's just people are like, sign up for schools now,
and I'm like, he's one month old, No, you need
to get on the wait list, Like no, I don't.
I need to move, That's what I'm.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
I hope that we continue manifesting this life together and
our kids get to be friends forever, neighbors, building tree forts.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Go cow tipping every once in a while.
Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
So cowtipping get in trouble in a small town where
it's allowed. Like I just feel back in the day
when we were growing up, we played every sport, We
climbed every tree, we had cast on every limb, we
split every chin and head open possible, and you just
don't see that anymore. And I want that for our kids.
Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
I know we're gonna make it happen.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Well. Thank you for being so vulnerable and wide open.
Thank you for coming on the show, and I just
I love your story. I love where you're at. Congratulations
on being a new daddy. Thank you, and tell everyone
where they can go listen to your podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Yeah, anywhere you listen to podcasts at daddy Hood. The
podcast name Season one, I will say, is a lot
about the fertility journey, and they're all pretty clearly titled,
so if like some of them don't apply to you,
feel free to skip around. But we interview anything from
surrogates to egg donors, to donor conceived children from both
(01:01:16):
donor eggs and from donor sperm, so it just gives
you paints of clear picture of what you're getting into.
And then on socials, I'm just cool Wonderwood and you
can see lots of Bishop and Daddy content, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
And you'll see a lot more of us together, ye
riding on a farm.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
In any in Hudson soon.
Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Yes, thanks man, thanks for being here, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen
Borca Coreo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from
Malia Guidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
(01:02:04):
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily
Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris
Colton's thank you so much for being here, welcome to
my show, Wide Open. Having you are such a dream.
I immediately was like, God, I just want to like
pick his brain because so much of like our stories
are so similar and parallel, quite nice, and our journeys
of making us into the parents we are today, which
(00:33):
is another exciting thing I want to talk about New Daddy. Congratulations.
I actually started really diving into your story the last
week and I got to watch the Netflix doc and
I just learned so much about you that I had
no idea, and like, I consider you you endured and
such dear friends, and I was like, wow, give me
(00:55):
so much perspective of you know, who you were as
a young boy, who you were as an athlete, who
you were as a football player, and now on this
beautiful journey of parenthood. I like to ask everyone to
kind of break the ices. What moment in your life
really split you wide open? And it could be sports related,
(01:17):
it could be life related. Yeah, what was that defining
moment in your life?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Oh? Heavy?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I know, quite heavy, very quickly, but my.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Gut I instantly went to the first time when somebody
asked me, are you gay? And I said yes for
the first time. I think like that that is my
moment that I felt the most vulnerable. Wow, where like
I had always always always said no, scritted around, the
answer had some sort of curveball, and for whatever reason,
(01:49):
I was really struggling, and it was my publicist at
the time, and wow, there were some things going on
and it wasn't really making sense to him and he's
like and he just asked it. And for whatever reason,
I remember I was in my grandma's driveway in Illinois
on the phone with him, pacing nervously outside because I,
like I didn't know what was going on. Like I
was like frantic, and he's like, I'm going to ask
(02:12):
you something and like I just need you to know.
He was a gay man himself. He's like, I need
you to know you're safe, but like are you gay?
And for whatever reason I said yes, And it was
the first time, you know. And immediately after that, he's like,
Everything's going to be okay, and I was like, oh,
I was like what I immediately was like, how do
I take that back? And I didn't, but I was.
(02:33):
I just remember feeling so.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Vulnerable and probably so safe to even answer it truthfully.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah. I think I was just numb after I said it, though, too,
because I was like in shock that I actually like said.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
It, and that like brings me to really want to
dive into your story, because I do, Colton. I think
you have a really beautiful story, and there's so much
beauty in the struggle, and I think we don't see
that until we look at life through the lens as
being a parent. And I think it's this beautiful journey
of struggle and beauty that build us into the humans
(03:07):
we are now to really be able to be good
humans for young children, and our perspective of life changes
so quickly it is a little bit like whiplash. I
want to hear about Colton as a young boy, who
he was, what made him pick up that football? What
(03:29):
was it about the sport that made you feel like
it was what you wanted to do for the rest
of your life.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, you know, I think I had this baby infant
photo of me wearing a seventy seven football jersey. Seventy
seven was my dad's number, and so I just think,
like it's always been in my DNA. I used to
joke that I was bred, not born, because my mom
was a D one volleyball player and my dad was
a D one football player, and they met in college.
(03:57):
They're both D one athletes scholarship athletes, and so I
always sort of had that joke that like, my parents
knew what they were doing by like getting together and
making my brother and I and I always sort of
knew sports were going to be in my future. And
you know, my parents created a household in which they
were like, you do not have to have a job
(04:17):
if you play sports you around, So in a weird
way as a kid, that was in my brain, I
was like, oh, I don't have to work, and like, also,
I can have some extra perpse if I play sports.
So I'm going to play sports. And I quickly fell
in love with basketball, track and field Baseball for a
little bit wasn't my end all where, but then football
came and I just loved being able to transform once
(04:43):
I put the helmet on, Like I was a completely
different player, completely different persona completely different man when I
had the helmet and the pads on, and I just
fell in love with that. And whether I don't whether
that's the right reasons or wrong reasons to fall in
love with the sport, I fell in love with it
because I was able to hide and I was able
to somewhat release my anger in a healthy legal way.
(05:06):
Yea of like hitting people like him and mother's sport
that you can like violently hit people and like release
built up aggression. And football allowed me to do that,
and it was something that I, like, looking back, I
probably think kept me alive. Like it just kept me
going and ended up being you know, my high school, college,
(05:28):
my life. And you know all that to be said,
I had incredible teammates, incredible coaches, Like there was so
much more than just like the release and like that
part of it that I took away from the sport.
And I would like, you know, this sports and football
specifically for me, I feel like parallels the ups and
downs of life. Oh yeah, and every you know what
(05:50):
is it? Average football plays four or five seconds, Like
sometimes it goes great, sometimes it doesn't, and you have
to get up and go to the next play. Yeah
that's life. Like things are going to happen and you're
going to fall short of expectations that people have for
you and you have for yourself. But then you like
get up and dust yourself off and keep going and
(06:11):
that's what I feel like. You know, I keep trying
to do with my life and I wouldn't. I don't
think I would have that same perspective if it was
in football.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It is so unique and so interesting how our sports
really do shape us. Yeah, and we have this unwavering,
undenying competitive spirit that is so magnetic, and you chase it,
You chase that thrill. And it's interesting when you say
I love football and I love putting the helmet on
(06:42):
so I could hide.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
You know, my escape for like through sport is because
I lived in a very toxic, troubling home as a kid.
There was a lot of fighting, There was a lot
of alcohol and addiction and mental health issues, and it
was my escape. It was a place where and I
played with boys and I smashed the shit out of
(07:07):
people all the time. And they finally were like, you
can't have any more red cards or yellow cards, like
you're breaking people's legs, were putting you in goal. But
you're right. It was such an escape for me to
get away from something that made me feel so small.
And I know it's totally different topics, and I would
(07:29):
assume yours had to be about your sexuality, at some
point when you were figuring out along the way. I
am curious, is that true to you? Is it where
you when you say you put that helmet on you
felt like a different person. Is it the one place
you could escape all of those thoughts of feeling alone
(07:50):
and ashamed? Or did you really not know why you
were different? You just knew you were different? No?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I knew why I was different once I hit high
school with pubertyreshman year. I think I definitely like started
to figure out what it was. But I think, you know,
looking back, you know you don't really like process. The
terminology that's loosely thrown around, and you and I have
(08:16):
spoke about this briefly before, too. Is like the male
sports sports culture for sure, And I'm sure I can't
speak to women's locker rooms and women's sports culture, but
homophobic slurs and also sexist slurs are like thrown around
in a negative way a lot in football, you know,
(08:36):
and even I mean baseball, like you play ball like
a girl, like from like our childhood, like famous lines
and movies. So I think for me, you know, I
could I never feel comfortable standing up or like, you know,
if anything I joined, I just wanted to blend it
in and I didn't want to like yeah, so like I
was part of the problem. I was contributing to it.
(08:57):
And I think I couldn't really process my emotions at
that time. I wasn't mature enough, and I don't think
a lot of kids at that age are mature enough
to like figure out how to process. So like disguising
myself and or venting through big hits or being able
to like be aggressive in my sport was the way
that I processed. And you know what always hurt the
(09:20):
most was the coaches because I was like, you know better,
like you are supposed to be like a role model
or somebody I look up to. Why are you using
that as like you know, a knock on me? Or
the way that I just play, Like if I had
a bad play, you know, why are you telling me?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
You know it's just tell me elaborate, like what I will?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I mean, like the like I have early memories of
you know, messing up a play and you know them saying, oh,
you're taking it up the butt or you're doing like
it was very aggressive like that is and that's like.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
A mild one locker room talk.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
That's like coaches to players. That's like thirty forty fifty
year olds talking to sixteen seventeen. I'm not even fourteen fifteen,
sixteen year olds. You know, being called you know, pussy
quite often is another one. You know, coaches saying that
(10:18):
you know, the player has a vagina instead of a pin,
Like that's real everyday locker room. And some people are
gonna laugh and roll their eyes and be like, yeah, right,
it's it's true, and like as innocent or I don't
even want to say innocent as like people like are like, oh,
you can't take it that personal, Like when it's done
one hundred plus times a day or a practice, it
(10:39):
gets to you.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
But it also is personal, is absolutely fucking because.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It's it was a private it's a private battle that
like I had to go through and the people who
were supposed to be there to protect me and like
look out for me as a person and as a
player were the ones contributing to it. That's like that
was the hardest part.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
That's hard for me to hear because it's not the
same clearly, and women's sports and you and I we
talk about this all the time. It really drives me
crazy that in the women's game. So many of us
are identify on some spectrum of queerness. I would consider
(11:22):
well over half of us are gay. So that type
of language just doesn't exist. That type of communication from
coaches or fans just doesn't exist because a majority of
the people tuning into our games also identify as queer
or a part of the community. So it's just always
(11:42):
been a really hard topic that I always talk about
in the rooms I walk into. It's twenty twenty fucking
four and we still do not have active gay male
athletes saying this is who I am. I am A,
it's none of your fucking business. But B it doesn't
(12:03):
affect the player and person I am and how I
show up in this locker room. So it's just it's
so sad for me to see and hear stories that
minimize and shrink people and make people fearful. Colton, I,
if I heard that in a locker room, I would
never be able to be like, yeah, I'm gay, Like
(12:26):
that's just I would be like I would get smaller
and smaller and smaller. And it's a testament what I
will say. It's a you know, for you to show
up in the level in which you did, because I
consider us one percenters. Yeah, people do not live the
life we did. We were built to be machines and
we were built to suffer, which I'll get back to
(12:48):
because I'm trying to learn unlearn that, which is one
of my hardest things in there.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
We had that in common when we were talking with
My husband brought that to my tess. He goes, do
you know you do this thing like you don't say
when something hurts, like you just like take the pain
and like I can clearly see like it's hurting you,
but you like laugh it off. And I'm like, oh, no,
I never knew that, But like that's me being an athlete.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Like you're built to suffer. Yes, I just can't imagine
showing up into my locker room space and only presenting
half of myself to my team because so much of
it is based on trust and chemistry and you didn't
even fucking trust the people in that locker room while
they use terms like fagot and homo and getting it
up the butt and being the butt of a joke,
(13:33):
like I just can't imagine. And and forget having your
dad come from football, right your dad was a coach, ye,
dad coached you most of your life. You come from
extreme religious background. Yeah, like to see where you are
today is such a gift. And I'm so happy, Like
(13:54):
we're both sitting here and I'm so lucky to have
our friendship because I consider you like so near and
dear to my heart. What a fucking journey, Like, what
a journey for you?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I know, I I I always try to like say,
I live life with no regrets, but like one one
big one that I have, and look, I had. I
truly believe I had to go on the journey that
I went through. I had to make the mistakes that
I'm made so that my kids and other people don't
have to go through that. But I wish that I
would have been out when playing because I would have
(14:28):
loved because trash talks part of the game. Yeah, I
would have loved, love, loved love to put somebody on
their ass and then tell them that you know that
derogatory mark, just put him on his or like be
able to just have a comeback or a whip and
just be able to like level the playing field a
little bit, Like you're going to keep using words that
(14:50):
you feel like are going to tear me in my
community down and like here, I am kicking your ass
every single day. I would have just loved to have
that moment, to be able to like talk some trash
back to them as an out player, because then their
words mean nothing. Then they're like their insults aren't insults
because who they're implying is weaker and lesser than them.
(15:14):
Just beat them. Yeah, So that's that would be like
the one thing that I wish, if I can go back,
I would have like, well had had that. You know,
I'm I'm confident that eventually there will be a stud
quarterback or a stud college player that is openly by
or openly gay. And it's just sort of like, yeah,
(15:34):
it's somewhat like I'm but I'm like, it just does
this thing. Yeah, and it's not a big deal, but
it is a big deal to so many people. I
think it's just all it's gonna take is one.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Well, I think that's it, right, So the visibility piece,
And I know we talk about this a lot, especially
in our community, you know, I know there's so many
things that we would love to do different. And I
wish if I saw more female athletes who looked like me,
who had my sexual identity. Like if I had more
(16:07):
visibility of what was possible, fuck, it wouldn't have taken
me so long to figure it out, And like I
wouldn't have I lived this life almost like a paperbag.
I kind of just fucking went like with this group
and I'm like, oh, I don't really fit in this,
and then it was like a chameleon. Yeah, I just
go and blend with all. I was so good.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
But that's the locker room, right, We're so good at
blending in so I could get into Like that's the
one thing I do miss. Everybody say, do you miss it?
I missed the locker room. And as painful as a
locker room was for me at times, I missed the
melting pot of cultures. Like one of my best friends
grew up in the hood of Milwaukee, and then I
(16:48):
have another guy who's from a rich Chicago suburb, and
then all of a sudden, you're playing with somebody from
South Florida, and then you have so like I got
slight more life experience in that locker room than any
part of my life and just got to hear their
stories and their struggles and what they went through and
gave me a whole new perspective because I grew up
in like a cornfield and the beanfield, Illinois. I didn't
(17:12):
have like we had like one hot kid in our
high school. So I didn't get to educate myself on
culture until I really got to college. And it was
such a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, And that's like, that's why we love it. That's
why it's so important. That's why sports teach young kids
so much. It's like, that's why it's so valuable total
being this incredible athlete, incredible young man. How did you
keep it so quiet? How did you walk into that
(17:45):
locker room? This masculine, handsome, big beefcake you are and
you still are clearly Like how did you hide that?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Like how how did you not get outed? How did you?
I mean, fuck, I went on one date with Sophia
and it was like headlines, hello, tabloids.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well there's no hiding that, And I think we live
in a different era.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Well that's true too, That's I'm just like, how did
you do it? Were you ever scared?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Were you like, oh, I was living I was living
in a spiderweb of lies. No, It's like for real,
in college, this is like a perfect example, in college,
I basically compartmentalized my high school friends, which I went
to college forty five minutes away from my high school,
so and there's a lot of people from my high
school who went to my university. I would never let
(18:36):
my high school friends really get to know my college
friends because when I wanted to explore my sexuality physically,
I would lie. They'd be like are you coming home
for the weekend. I'm like yeah, or no, I'm staying
at college. And my my friends at college where are
you going home? And I'm like, yeah, I'm going home.
And then I would like, you know, have yeah, have
my free time. But I never I never wanted them
(18:59):
to compare notes. So but then on top of it,
as I really learned and I don't love this character
trade about me, but like I really learned how to
control situations and all the way down to like I
had a folder and I'm not proud of this either,
but like I had a folder of topless women on
(19:21):
my phone ready to go to prove that I was straight.
And because that was very much the locker room of
like who, like who are you into? Now? Check this out?
And like it's very show offy and it's very if
you don't have that, something's wrong with you, like something's weird.
I just remember how proud they were that they were
like exploiting people, and then I felt really gross and
(19:41):
like changed the way that I went about it. But
like that was one of the ways that I sort
of felt like I needed to protect myself. It's like, oh,
if these other straight guys are acting this way, I
guess that's how I have to to like fit in.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So do you feel at that time? And I can't
imagine putting myself in that situation. However, when I was
in college, I would have a boyfriend and I would
be physically intimate with and then I would crawl out
of bed and go sleep in my roommate's bed because
I felt more emotionally safe. And that's when like I
(20:16):
started flirting a little bit with HM, Why do I
physically feel like I have to do this but emotionally
feel safe on this side?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And it see, I was the opposite really of you.
So I was more emotionally connected to women and physically
connected to me connected to men, So like I like
physically I can could separate. Like when I started to
first took up with men. I wouldn't talk, I wouldn't
(20:45):
ask their name, I wouldn't like. But that's also gay
culture is easier to get away with that. Yeah, for
any of our straight listeners or viewers out.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
There, like that you had an image to keep up.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I did, and like I even remember. So it's so
like my first tattoo that I got was this cross,
and I'm a Christian gay man, but like when I
was closeted, I really prayed to not be gay. I
wanted to be so straight, and part of it, I
think when I got this. I don't know if I
ever really talked about this, but part of the reason
I got across was I was like, Okay, this will
(21:18):
stop me from hooking up, because then people are going
to be able to identify me for my tattoos. Wow,
all I did was cover it up when I went
to go like do things. But it's so the mental
gymnastics that you have to do to justify the shame
that you have when you're in the closet and trying
to figure yourself out. Like that's the other thing is
like I truly just wish that I would have been
(21:40):
able to say, like, I'm confused about my sexuality. I'm
going to need a minute to figure it out, versus
going the route that I did of like a lot
of pain and suffering for myself and people in my life.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
We'll be right back. What makes me so proud of you,
and I have to say this is the fact that
you leverage your platform now to help because there's someone
right now who's dealing with the same things you did,
who still feel that that locker room is not safe
(22:21):
enough to be themselves. Yeah, and we are still being
I mean, men are losing their jobs when they actually
say the hard things, which it's not a hard thing,
it's a beautiful thing. It's who you are.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Well, can I tell you this after my show came out. Yeah,
there's a lot of people in my hometown that were
not happy that I aired the conversation that I aired
between the coach and me. And at first I felt
really guilty, and I was like, why did I do that?
Like I really just feel like I messed up friendships,
and like, the more I sat with it, and then
(22:56):
I started getting messages and messages from four kids on
tea on the team from my town who were out,
like not publicly out, but like who basically came out
to me and my dms. It's like, thank you so much,
Like I haven't told anybody, but like I'm on the
team and this is exactly how I feel right now.
That made it all worth it in my head. It's
(23:18):
like as much as much as people were sort of
coming from me, like how dare you trap him? Or
how dare you come for this program and these coaches
and all this, I mean, I suffered for how many
years of my life and not solely because of those people,
but like they definitely didn't help, but they're continuing to
do it and get away with it up until this day,
(23:42):
and like that's not okay. Yeah, So that that made
me feel better. And I do think, you know, when
the show first came out, it caught a lot of backlash,
and I obviously have learned so much more and I
have a completely different perspective now. But I do think
a lot of people from Middle America, in the middle
of our country are going to watch that and know
(24:04):
that they're not alone sports wise, because there isn't there
isn't you know, that much representation yet.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Well, Colton, Statistically, there are gay men out there.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I mean there were supposed to be. There was rumors,
there was rumors that there were supposed to be like
this group of gay NFL players that we're going to
jointly come out and like try to help. But then
one or two All it takes is one or two
people to back out, and then they don't feel ass safe.
So you know, I know there's gay people in the NFL, Well,
I'm sure you do, and they're just like waiting for
(24:37):
their careers to be done to come out.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Will we ever create change if we continue doing that?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
No males and once. The only reason I'm saying male
sports is because I feel like that's what I can
still do. I'm not going to ever speak for women.
But like, the male sports culture right now is so
homophobic that it's going to take a lot to change.
I have faith it can, but it is going to
take a lot to change it. And it is going
(25:04):
to take a five star, high score recruit that's maybe
openly by or openly gay, or it's going to take
a first round draft pick out of college to enter
into the NFL as an out gay out by man
to really change people's, you know, view and perspective of
(25:24):
queer men in sports and queer people in sports in general.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, I like I just I'm so hopeful for it
because I can't. And this is a genuine question. Do
you feel that and we don't. It's not that I
want you to feel like you have to go back
and you have to change anything. I genuinely want to
know if you, if you are the person you are now,
(25:50):
the Coulton you are now, the dad you are, the husband,
you are so sure of every part about you and
the growth you've had, if you, if you were to
go back, do you think your football career would have
been different? To bring your whole fucking self to the picture,
exactly who you wanted to be, exactly how you wanted
(26:11):
to show up for that locker room and your teammates
and your coach. Do you think your career would have
been different? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I would have been better, I truly believe. I mean,
and I had two All American seasons in college. Like,
I would have played much looser, I would have practiced harder,
I would have felt more mental clarity. I just would
have brought a whole different level to me. That's like
it's sort of like that last gear that I never unlocked. Yeah,
(26:40):
and while I was playing both, you know, because my
story is I played a D one double a college
and then I went to the NFL for three years
and was on practice squads and I felt like I
was just spinning my tires. And I know why I
was spinning my tires because like, I couldn't level up,
I couldn't kick it to the next year, and I
couldn't do that because I couldn't be fully myself and
(27:01):
I sort of had to live this double life and
this shame and this stigma. So my answer to your
question is yes, but it would have been better. My
life and my career would have been better.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, And I hope that we can definitely get to
the point. And I love that you use your platform
to continue to push for change, and I mean, I
hope I see that in my lifetime as well, because
I want. It's such a beautiful gift to be at
such an elite level, and the emotional toll it takes
(27:32):
to be at the top is exhausting. Forget battling an
internal battle about showing up, exactly who the fuck you
want to show up to be. I can't imagine the
exhaustion and the energy you had to put in other
parts of your life instead of just focusing on your job.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, it's just yeah, there was a lot of like
I said, like I said, a lot of spiderwebs, Yeah,
that I had to. And it's just the other thing
that really sort of surprised me is after I publicly
came out, I had a lot of players that I
used to play with and teammates from college and pros
and coaches reach out to me and come out in
(28:13):
a different way of like just opening up about something
they felt shame or stigma around, from you know, drug
addictions to cheating on their wives and sort of like
find the safety with me that I really realized. You know,
the sports culture isn't very vulnerable. We all are built
for pain, and we're built with this armor to like
(28:36):
not let people know that they're getting to us. So
why would we ever be emotional or vulnerable with our
teammates Because we're weak, That's what they tell you. And
I think that hopefully has changed. I like to think
that's changed a little bit, and I think that has
to do a lot with people feeling more comfortable talking
about their mental health because that it's also a bridge
(29:00):
to like communicate openly with like what's leading to those
mental health challenges. You know, for me it was my sexuality.
For other people, that can be a handful of other things.
And I think we're slowly getting better there.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, I definitely agree, And I think, you know, mental
health is such a valuable part of this. And I
know you and I are both very big advocates in
the mental health space for a reason because we've been
through it, and we've been through a ton of pain
and hardship, and I think it's so admirable and important
(29:34):
for a very masculine man to be able to be
vulnerable and show that you have scars and you want
to share those scars so other people, you know, maybe not,
they don't have to take the same journey and pain
you did if you use your voice for good. You know,
we're on this whole topic about football and the NFL.
(29:55):
And then you retire and you decide to do The Bachelor, Yeah,
a part of the franchiser and three different parts of
The Bachelor, Bachelorette, Bachelor Paradise, your own show. Do you
feel that was your breaking point and how hard was
the transition of now you're this big public figure. Yeah,
(30:17):
you know, because football you can hide. You got a
helmet on, especially football, no one, you know, not many people.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
The Bachelor was my helmet. Yeah, I think, I mean,
it definitely wasn't my breaking point. If anything, it was
false hope. It was. It was contributing to the same
sort of logic of I'm going to pray the gay away,
I'm gonna make this show is going to convert me,
I'm going to be straight, I'm going to fall in love.
And it was also confusing, and I think it's important that,
(30:45):
like I I've done a lot of therapy and work
through this, and at first I didn't really want to
talk about it because I didn't want to confuse people.
But like it was confusing to me, and I think
you'll relate to this. It's like I was attracted to
some of the women. Yeah, but I'm a big energy guy.
Like a lot of the way I'm on my season
had masculine energy, and like it just like we vibed.
There was like there was nothing. I don't know how
(31:06):
else to explain it. I was in the back of
my mind physically knew I was missing something. Yeah, but
I was going in it with pure intentions of like
I'm going to be come straight and this show is
going to help me. And I obviously was wrong with that,
but like that was my mask, that was my helmet,
you know. I just jumped from one crutch to another. Yeah,
(31:27):
that's all I did. And now I realize that, but
I just you know, and as far as like adrenaline
goes to like I sort of matched the same. Like
it's hard to recreate sports adrenaline, right, like when you
step on to the green and like you step onto
that field and all of a sudden you're flooded. Oh yeah,
(31:47):
that that spike.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Right, Oh god, you're.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Chasing that for the rest of your life when you're
done playing. When I got in front of a camera
and they miked me up and I knew, like we're recording, I.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Got the same, only just fucking explore.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I love this. I love the entertainment industry, Like this
is gonna be this is sort of my hit, Like
I like.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Pressure, yeah, and I could see that.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, I mean it's just a whole different you know.
The one thing I'll say is like it was just
a whole new level of fame, like playing football, I
had a name for myself in the sports community. But
then all of a sudden, now you're on ABC. You know.
For me, I recorded three shows in one year, and
I'm on back to back to back hit shows. All
it did was make it more difficult for me to
(32:34):
physically explore then and explore my sexuality when I was
single and not dating anybody in between shows, which I
was doing. It just made it a little bit more challenging.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I I mean, I can imagine because you were everywhere and.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah it was on I mean when I had my
show too, it's like Times Square, billboards and like out here,
but like I'm I don't know how you know somebody
at some point it's like wait, you know. But yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Also think what's very important is, and I say this often,
is like you don't have a playbook. You don't have
a playbook to come out, you don't have a playbook
to live out a very public separation, divorce, split from Cassie. Like,
there's no playbook. And when when I saw you take
(33:28):
off running on that fucking show, it made me think
about my life and my situation and my relationship. Because
as soon as I knew as soon as the aha
moment hit, I fucking ran and I ran so fast,
(33:50):
and I hurt a lot of people in the process,
but it was literally life or death. It was literally
life or death for me. There was no for me.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
People will never understand that. And I think that that's
something like I it took me a while to be
able to vocalize it, and it's incredible that you already can.
But like, was it good? No? Was it harder than
hell for me to like go through what I did?
And yeah, and I made a ton of mistakes and
I did a ton of things that I never wanted
(34:22):
to and I like it just makes my skin cross
even like look back, but I had to go through that,
like it was a life or death situation, and like
I had to figure myself out. I just yeah, it's
just it came at the expense of a lot of people,
and you and I have to take the accountability and
like like own that. But now I'm just like I
(34:44):
look back, and I mean, you're obviously the healing journey
never stops, like you're you're gonna be on it for
a long time, but like you're well on your way,
and I just know that, and it's I'm really excited
for myself and excited for you too, but like, yeah,
it's it's a challenging thing.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
It really is beautiful because you've gone through this incredible
journey and I appreciate you sharing so much of it
with me, and then you decide to come out.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, to be completely transparent. It's like I I was
publicly the reason why it was sort of backwards my
coming out process. I came out to my team and
for people like my business team. Yeah, like my publicist
was the first person. Then I came out to my management,
and then I came out to my agents, and I
(35:39):
had to do that because there was I was being blackmailed.
So I was like trying to figure out, Okay, if
this goes to the press, I need somebody to help me.
And I'm not ready. Like the thing that I think
people are like, well, why didn't you just ask you?
I wasn't ready to come out to my mom and
my dad yet, and like I have gone to them
for everything in my life, but like, for whatever reason,
I trusted my gut. I wasn't ready to come out
(36:00):
to my family. It would have been too much for
them to process, I think because like I just put
them through three television shows about finding a wife and
I could not do that to them where I was
like I was not ready and I just didn't feel it.
So I had to come out to them and they
had to like help guide me, and they did, and
the show opportunity for the Netflix part came up and
(36:23):
we had I had gone back and forth if I
was going to do it several times and I finally
said yes. And ultimately the reason why I decided to is,
like I live such a you know, I lived such
a straight life on camera and like through my straight
sexuality into the universe that I needed to try to
(36:46):
fix it was the way that I justified it in
my head of like, Okay, like now I have to
really own who I really am. As hard as this
is going to be, I have to do this and
it's going to be messy and it's going to be
ugly at times, but like I have to let people
in on that, Yeah, because they got to see this
polished suit and tie bachelor who you know wasn't the
(37:07):
most authentic and was like really confused in trying to
like fix himself. It's important that they see this version too.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah. So wow, is this why you became such a
big advocate in the mental health space because I can't
imagine Colton this was easier.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, yeah, I think when and for me, where I
specifically focus on is advocating for college athletes, college level athletes,
because when I go back and sort of put a
finger on where it was, where it started was in
the locker room, whether it was you know, my senior
(37:44):
year of high school and or college, a lot of
my pain and a lot of my suffering could have
been prevented or minimized if I would have started to
get help in college and trusted a therapist, because a
lot of these athletes struggle to feel safe enough to
(38:06):
tell somebody who is part of the university, who controls
their playing time, who controls their scholarship, who controls their life,
Like when you're on scholarship and playing at the collegiate level,
that is your life that you're struggling mentally because you're
afraid that since you are going through depression and or anxiety,
(38:30):
you're going to be benched. And that's just the reality.
And I think that's what a lot of athletes feel.
So advocating for more resources and to get rid of
the stigma and just say, somebody with anxiety and depression
could still go out there and kick assah and just
because they're going through that right now does not make
(38:51):
them less of a player or less of a human.
I think that's why I've become such an advocate is
because you know, my own experience, and also I hear
from and see a lot of athletes out there today
that are struggling.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And it's not just their sexuality, No.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
It's everything. That's one thing too that really shocked me.
It is, like, like I said before, people slide into
my dms and come out in different ways like hey,
I know, like I'm not gay, but this is what
I'm going through and it's and it's similar like the
coming out journey and like owning. It's it's all rooted
in shame. Like just people working through their shame and
(39:31):
the stigmas and our you know, culture and the societal norms.
Is something that I really realized is very common.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, once you finally drop the rope and you said,
you know what, even though you were forced a little
bit to do it, sometimes we just need a little nudge.
It was the best I like, did it change everything
for you?
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Did it?
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Just the weight of the world and the.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Eyes I never I sort of dropped it after I
came out of like pursuing who the emails came from,
who the pictures were threatened from, because I got so
obsessed with that, because it was like, I need to
find who's doing this to me and make sure it
doesn't get out. Like I'm sort of like, I dropped it,
and I was like, I'm sort of grateful they pushed me. Yeah,
(40:16):
I really am. I might not have been ready, but
like what I was ready for was like I had
the right team and people around me who protected me
and helped me and were there for me. And I'm
proud of that and I'm glad that they gave me
a little nudge.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it led you to
meeting Jordan and real it really feels that it changed
your life for the best. Stay tuned.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
So how did these challenges lead you? Because I adore
you and Jordan. I am like the smile that goofy
grin on your face right now tells me everything. I
need to know because he's the fucking best I The
second I met both of you, it was like immediate.
(41:18):
I just remember walking in you both walked into the kitchen,
and we just like wrapped our arms around each other.
I think, because it's not like a painful hug, it's
a I see you. We understood each We understood each
other right away.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I met him at the rap party of my Netflix
show Wow, so like I and I very vocalate you
to people too, is like I'm not looking for a relationship,
and all of a sudden I meet him and then
two months later we're on the same trip and he
helps me through it. And then like we go to
release the show and it's met with a ton of
backlash and I've like I had been through it, but
(41:57):
like I never experienced that, and experience it from the
gay community too, where like they were condemning me and
coming for me, and obviously the Bachelor fans were confused
to why I was like so publicly coming out, and
all of a sudden, I had this rock of like Jordan,
and it just made us obviously even stronger, and I
(42:21):
just fell more in love with with him more than anything.
And I think like that's like what I can see
with you two is like as hard as it's been,
you have a rock in Sofia. Absolutely, I mean it
doesn't get much better. And the thing that I can
say is like Sophia and Jordan are very good friends too,
so like they're from the same cloth, yes where their
(42:42):
writer dies, and you don't want to get on their
their bad side, because they will stick up for the people,
like their family and the lives they love heart, the
love heart. I get to watch that every single day
with him.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
The universe presents you with a beautiful gift and it's yours,
even in your most broken, vulnerable, suffering state, whether you
take it. And you know, you always talk about this
life that you've always wanted with children, you know, being married,
(43:17):
really living with full purpose and as your full self.
And I really feel like you're doing that. And I'm
so happy that you now are this new father and
I'm sure it gives you such a different perspective. And
you know, as you said in the in the Netflix
special about your dad, was very much so a coach
(43:42):
a lot in your life. And not that he wasn't
the best father figure, he just was coach right and
now that you're a father, because I say this a
lot being a parent and looking through the lens as
being a mom. I forgave my parents immediately, because even
though it's the greatest thing I've ever done in my life,
(44:03):
it is the hardest and people don't realize it until
you start becoming a parent. And lucky enough for both
of us, we do live privileged lives where we have
access to things our parents never dreamed of and they
still managed, worked it out, worked two jobs, did all
(44:23):
these things so we would have the best. And I'm
just wondering, has your perspective on life now that you're
married and you have beautiful bishop, has it changed? Is
there anything now that you're like, I want to be
this kind of dad because I know what it's like
(44:44):
on this side, and I want to give this world
to my child where he is safe enough to be
in a locker room potentially one day and be exactly
who he wants to be. Like, just do you think
about that now being a father?
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, I think I have a responsibility, and I think
I've always known that I've had a responsibility, but like
in a way, you know, I have a husband to
hold me accountable. And also to like help me take
the higher road at times. I mean, I'm sure you
can relate to this too, Like it's hard, like you
sometimes let the emotions and we did this as athletes too.
(45:22):
You sometimes let the emotions get the better of you
where you see something and you want to react quickly
and like defend yourself and like you know, punch back, yeah,
and sometimes having that voice. And for me, it was
Jordan during time, during my hard times of like leveling
me out and calming me down and saying, hey, this
is how we're gonna approach this. We're going to take
(45:43):
the higher road here. And I want to be that
version of myself, this current version with Jordan and like
all of the things he's sort of rubbed off onto
me for my son, and I want to be a
better example. I want to, you know, continue to keep
improving who I am. I want to set a good example,
and I want to I want him just to be
(46:06):
proud of who I am and what I'm putting out there,
especially since he's entered this world. I'm sure at times
he's going to when he's old enough, he can go
back and see what I've done in my athletic career
in the entertainment industry and stuff like that. But I
think it's important that from the moment he entered this world,
(46:29):
he sees like that I'm trying to lead by example
for him.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
It's so enjoyable for me to sit back and see
like how present you both are and how sweet and
kind and gentle, Like you're so gentle even though you
were built to be this machine who has taught to be.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Wait, I was so nervous for newborn. I think I
told you this when you came over here. I was
not expecting to be good because I was like, I
have these big, big hands. I'm I'm like athletic, but
I'm also like a little clumsy. Yeah, I'm like a
bowl in a china shop, right Like, I'm like this
big dude. So I was really scared. And then all
of a sudden he comes out and I'm like swaddling diaper,
(47:15):
like feeding my neck and chin as like I'm trying
to like get his booties back on. Yeah, I was.
I was really nervous, and all of a sudden, I
was like it just kicks in.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
You're natural, yeah, and you and you said, because you
have your own podcast, Daddy, hood, which I love. And
you've said this from the beginning, like you really feel
and you felt like you were born to be a dad.
You just have always wanted to be a dad. Of
course you're gonna like get it right. You're the sweetest,
most gentle human I know. Even though you've been in
(47:49):
this very masculine, very aggressive sports it's sort.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Of been healing to feel like I have some maternal
instincts and same with Jordan. He does too, Like that
was always something. Jordan and I feel like we balance
each other out in our feminine and masculine energies. We
were a really good mix. Yeah, but yeah, like the
parental maternal like whatever people with terminology they want to use, Like,
I just feel like it kicked in. Yeah, and I
(48:15):
was like, oh, we got this, Like this is this
is calming to know that you know you're going to
pick me up when I need you, and I'm going
to pick you up and you need me.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
And you know what I love too is you both
are so open on your podcast about you know, how
you chose to do this, and I think most people
actually don't know. So if you are open to sharing,
because it is such cool the way you and Jordan
went about this was so beautiful and your entire process
(48:44):
actually talking about it, because most men don't talk about yea,
the you know, the fertility process for us as gay,
same sex couples, it's difficult and it is very expensive,
and especially you and I like we're brainwashed a little
(49:05):
bit because we have cared for our bodies in a
way most people don't.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Like.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Trust me, when we walk into a room, people will
know we are athletes, and with that comes we eat right,
we sleep right, we still work out, we do cold plunge,
we do saana, we do all of these things. But
also we've done things to our body to be the
best at our sport that actually hurt, hurt the fertility process.
(49:30):
And you're so open about it because that had to
be hard when you wanted to start having children. They
were like, listen, your sperm count.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Totally is not like that. None like that what you're
alluding to. So when we first started this, and I'll
start by saying, like, oftentimes when you hear about fertility struggles,
immediately I think everybody's mind goes to, oh, she or
her fertility issues. No, men are fifty percent of the equation,
(49:59):
whether you like it or not, if there are if
there is anybody out out there that's struggling with fertility
right now, my number one advice before people get started
is please have the men, the husbands or both men.
If you're in a same sex relationship, go get tested.
Just know where you're at. Because it took us. It
took me six months. Jordan's numbers were good. It took
(50:21):
me six months to rehabilitate my sperm. And the top
contributing factors to my low sperm count slash no sperm
was daily hot tub slash hot bass. I love a
bath and exercising more than four times a week actually
harms your sperm production. I was pelotoning too, which bike
rides tend to do that. Yeah, sawn and steam room
(50:43):
and then taking tiestostrone or TRT replacement so tasosterone. For
those men out there that are taking it. While there
are plenty of benefit, you know, benefits to it, it
actually does work as like it sterilizes you. Essentially, it
tells your you know, your body to stop producing sperm.
So my numbers were really really low.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, and that's like got to be hard because this
is your journey. You're literally like I just.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
Want to be a dad, and anybody who's been on
the fertility fertility journey knows, like these fertility doctors are
very black and white like and they went on to
the next subject, and I was like, wait, hold on,
can someone hold my hand and cry with me for
a second, because I was expecting to like give my
sample today and be pregnant in nine months and like now,
all of a sudden, you know, it took Jordan and
I to over a little over two years to have Bishop,
(51:34):
and it was patience and resilience and like a lot
of start and stops and once again, that's life, that's sports.
And I don't like, I don't know if I hadn't
been an athlete, if I could have gotten through that
as strongly as I did, and what I.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Love the most, and I don't I don't think our
listeners know this, but you and Jordan did a Sarah, Yeah,
but you don't know whose sperm you actually ended up using.
That is so cool and so amazing and so special
(52:11):
because it doesn't make either of you feel like you
weren't a part of the process. It is beautiful. I
think it makes me want to weep because it is.
It's like so special and not many people think of that,
especially with same sex couples. Someone is getting left out
and that's hard.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Yeah, it was, and I think in a way when
we talked about it is we sort of did it
to protect ourselves one because we had been so public
with our journey. But what I noticed is, you know,
a lot of people don't understand when you for us,
for two men, our egg donor is different from our surrogate.
(52:49):
So the woman who gives us her egg her eggs.
We then fertilize with our sperm and then from there
we have our embryos, and then once those embryos are
tested and frozen, we then do an embryo transfer to
a surrogate, which is a completely different lady and woman
who is equally as incredible as their egg donor, and
(53:11):
she carries our baby to term. And we just told
our doctor, we were like, we know how many umbryroos
I have, we know how many embryos he has, And
we just said, hey, you put in whichever healthiest embryo
is and for the next one when we come back
to you, because we want to just put the opposites
in and we didn't really want to know. Because one
(53:34):
thing that bugs me and I talk about this a
little bit on my most recent episode of Daddyhood with Jordan,
was a lot of times people are innocent and curious
when they ask us a question of who. It's an
offensive question to ask sex couples, and honestly, I think
just couples in general, because even straight couples have fertility issues,
(53:56):
and I think people need to be a little bit
more mindful of that, of the question of but whose
is it really or whose child is it? Who's biomateial
because it feels in a way like you're disqualifying one
of the parents, and that's not okay because we both
went through a lot over two years to have baby
(54:17):
Bishop here, and we don't like to hear, you know,
offensive things, and we're sort of protective of our family.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
And I think also, what you're shedding light on, and
I think what people don't talk enough about is there's
two folds here. There's this beautiful thing you're doing with
your husband to bring a sweet human into this world,
(54:45):
and Bishop Kattie's so freaking cute, Yes, But the fucking
process and the money that it takes for people like
you and I. And you know, Sophie and I have
been dating now for almost you know, a year, and
where I'm thirty nine, she's forty two, and we have
to have these conversations now early in a relationship. She's
(55:09):
never had a child. I've never had a biological child,
and the amount of money it costs to do these steps,
not only for our community, but just families going through IVF,
it really opens the door to having this conversation that
why is it only people who have the means financially
(55:32):
to even do this get access to it? Like I
thought about freezing my eggs and I started going through
this loophole process and this hamster wheel of the process,
the time and the money, and I'm just like, who
can afford this? Like I adopted two children, Colton and
(55:55):
I spent a lot of money adopting some of the
most at risk children out there, And I'm just like,
how is this so hard? There's so many beautiful families
out there who just want to be parents like us totally,
who maybe they don't have the financial means to do so.
(56:15):
And do you ever think about that? Do you ever
think of how we can change that? And have you know,
access to bringing beautiful children into this world without having
financially financially.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
It's a huge like a couple of companies online because
I did a lot of research over my season one
of Daddyhood for women out there that are looking to
freeze your eggs, it's very expensive. There is a company
called Cofertility that if you're comfortable enough to donate half
of your eggs, they will freeze the other half for
(56:50):
you to use for free.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
WHOA.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
So it's it's an incredible, incredible company. I had the
founder on my podcast and it's called ho Fertility. So
they just help take the burden off of the expense
of freezing your eggs and so throughout you know, once
you get matched with the you know where your your
eggs are going to and who they're going to. They
(57:13):
schedule your egg retrieval and then the other half will
be frozen for you. So that's an option if you
feel comfortable with it. Another company that's really cool is
called Nordle. It's an app and I had their founder
on as well, and it's a surrogate matching program sort
of like a Tinder where you get to swipe and
(57:36):
it's just I'm just fascinated by innovative and companies that
are trying to change because unfortunately, in my opinion, I
feel like the industry, the fertility industry sees money through
our LGBTQ plus community. Absolutely, they see the dollar signs
(57:57):
and they know that, you know, we can have children
on our own, and they charge us enarnment a leg
and I think that's a problem. So I love all
of these different companies. And then the last one that
I'll shout out for men out there who might not
feel comfortable, and this goes for trans women out there
who are looking to freeze or sperm. There is this
(58:20):
company called Legacy Sperm, which is an at home sperm
testing kit. So if you do not feel comfortable going
into your clinic to get tested and to get your
sperm tested, you can request and get an at home
kit and they freeze your sperm for you as well. Wow.
So just I say that because parts of our country Oklahoma, Texas,
(58:40):
some of the southern states that you might not necessarily
feel comfortable going and getting your sperm frozen at there
is an at home you know, test and kit for that.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
I love that. I love that you've done so much
research and I know, but it's so important because there
are just things we don't know. And it's great that
you've really gone through this process and you're so willing
to continue advocating and sharing and making it easier for
people like myself. And I'm just so lucky to call
(59:11):
you a friend. And I know we're trying to build
our sweet little families out and build a future together.
And I hope we have this dream of being on
a farm.
Speaker 2 (59:21):
I was like, wait, where are we going? Are we
going there with this? Yeah? I just I want my
kids to play in dirt sa And I want them
to have like farm animals as friends. And I want
them to be able to ride their bike. I just
want them to have a really good childhood. Yeah, And
I think, I don't know. I just want them to
have like responsibilities and chores and uh not feel like
(59:43):
they have to, you know, compete for attention. And I
live It's no secret I live in LA and like
it's just people are like, sign up for schools now,
and I'm like, he's one month old, No, you need
to get on the wait list, Like no, I don't.
I need to move, That's what I'm.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
I hope that we continue manifesting this life together and
our kids get to be friends forever, neighbors, building tree forts.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Go cow tipping every once in a while.
Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
So cowtipping get in trouble in a small town where
it's allowed. Like I just feel back in the day
when we were growing up, we played every sport, We
climbed every tree, we had cast on every limb, we
split every chin and head open possible, and you just
don't see that anymore. And I want that for our kids.
Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
I know we're gonna make it happen.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Well. Thank you for being so vulnerable and wide open.
Thank you for coming on the show, and I just
I love your story. I love where you're at. Congratulations
on being a new daddy. Thank you, and tell everyone
where they can go listen to your podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Yeah, anywhere you listen to podcasts at daddy Hood. The
podcast name Season one, I will say, is a lot
about the fertility journey, and they're all pretty clearly titled,
so if like some of them don't apply to you,
feel free to skip around. But we interview anything from
surrogates to egg donors, to donor conceived children from both
(01:01:16):
donor eggs and from donor sperm, so it just gives
you paints of clear picture of what you're getting into.
And then on socials, I'm just cool Wonderwood and you
can see lots of Bishop and Daddy content, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
And you'll see a lot more of us together, ye
riding on a farm.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
In any in Hudson soon.
Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Yes, thanks man, thanks for being here, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen
Borca Coreo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from
Malia Guidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
(01:02:04):
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily
Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris
Host
Ashlyn Harris
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.