The Moment that Should’ve Broken Tim Howard

Ashlyn sits down with former USMNT goalkeeper and soccer legend, Tim Howard. Tim takes us through his life and career from his Tourette’s diagnosis, to living an ocean away from his family, to trying to make an impact in this new chapter of his life. And he asks the important question: what do you want your legacy to be?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Ashland Harris. I'm so excited to welcome you
to episode one of my new podcast, Wide Open in Sports.
Being wide open means you're ready to seize the moment
a chance to make a game changing impact in life.
It's about embracing vulnerability, showing up with honesty, and finding

(00:21):
the courage to face challenges head on. We've all had
moments that cracked us wide open times when life tested us,
broke us down, and made us question what's next. But
it's in those moments that we discover what we're really
made of. I've been there, I've felt the weight of

(00:43):
tough times, but every setback has taught me something. Resilience.
It's what fuels us to rise stronger and more determined
than ever. For a long time, I've wanted to share
the conversations I've been having about those moments with my friends,
with people I admire and the people I'm just getting

(01:06):
to know. Each episode, I'll sit down with trailblazers from sports, music, fashion, entertainment,
and politics to explore their toughest moments and the incredible
comebacks that followed. I'm excited to start this journey with
you all. It's time for honest conversations, unforgettable stories, and

(01:28):
a front row seat to the moments that changed everything.
In this first episode of Wide Open, I want to
share the beautiful conversation I had with my friend and
fellow goalkeeper, Tim Howard. Tim is not only a great goalkeeper,
but a dedicated advocate for women's sports and mental health.

(01:50):
He was a role model for me during a time
when being a professional women's soccer player wasn't widely accepted.
We came from a similar background and we have faced
a lot of the same obstacles pursuing a professional career
in sports. But more than that, Tim is an exceptional
human with a lot of wisdom to share about moving

(02:11):
through life with dignity and integrity. Welcome to Wide Open.
Welcome everyone. I am so excited to introduce our guests
for this show this week, the one and only Tim Howard. Tim,

(02:35):
Welcome to Wide Open, my new podcast and show. We're
so happy you're here today.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Thank you. It is an honor to be with you.
We've been friends for quite a while and I was
starting to wonder if I was to get the invite,
so I'm happy.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Absolutely you are the invite. My friend and for those
of you who do not know who Tim Howard is,
which I find that very impossible. Your history in the
sport of soccer is legendary. You're recently a Hall of Famer,
which congratulations so well deserving. Arguably the best men's national

(03:10):
goalkeeper of all time, in my opinion, of all time.
You have a rich history in the sport of greatness
and that is why you're here today. But more importantly,
what I love so much about you is who you
are and how you show up. And with this show
Wide Open is clearly we are much more than what
we do, and peeling back those layers and really showing

(03:35):
why we tick the way we tick, why we move
the way we move, why we choose to be exceptional
every single day, and why we are able to sit
at the top where the air is so thin for
so long and I'm curious. I always start the podcast
and the show with this one question. What happened in
your life that really split you wide open, whether in

(03:59):
your personal life, whether it's in football soccer, what split
you wide open that changed everything for you?

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah? So I think that there's two different answers. One
is professional and one is personal. And I think on
a professional level. My move to Manchester United was widely
covered globally and had some had some ups there. I
had some downs, and as an athlete, you're ridiculed and

(04:29):
torn down, it beats you up. And that was a
big moment for me because it was it was a
moment that should have broken me, but I was just
because of how I was raised and my bullishness and
arrogance to want to be great. I was. I thought, well,
to heck with them, I'm gonna I'm going to succeed somehow.

(04:49):
And so I'm really thankful for that criticism at the
time because it hardened me and it allowed me to
It gave me a platform to to be so singularly
focused on greatness. You know, when everyone's talking about you
in the tablets, you're talking about you and people don't think
you're good enough, and you're like, all right, I'm circling

(05:09):
the wagons. This is like me versus me. It actually
did me a disservice in life, that mentality. After playing,
I had to kind of relearn some things. But while
I was playing, just that arrogance and that ability to
block everything out and be great. And then on a
personal level, I was playing in I was still in England,
spent thirteen years there, and my ex wife and I

(05:29):
got divorced and I had two young kids and they
went back to the States. And sadly, because it's the
Premier league, it's what we do, there's no days off.
And I would have to bet, you know, kind of
beg my coach, who was brilliant at the time, to
give me one or two days off every month or
sixty days. I know that sounds crazy, and by the way,

(05:51):
it was crazy. And I'd hop on a flight across
the Atlantic and i'd connect in Atlanta, I'd go to
Memphis to see the kiddos for thirty six hours, and
I'd hop back on a plane and do it all again.
And at the time you think it's impossible, but you'll
do anything for your kids. And so I remember thinking
if that didn't break me, like nothing would. And so
it served me well. You know, just this week and

(06:11):
I took my daughter plays the CNL and her teams
in Birmingham, Alabama. So hopped in a car, drove four hours,
watched her game for two hours, and drove back and
I complained once or twice along the land. I thought
Tim He dreamed of these days of being close enough
to hop in a car and grab a water and
drive to see your kid play, you know, like so
it gave me.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Perspective as well, and I think that's exactly who you are.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
And it's weird too, because I looked up to you
a lot, and I picked number twenty four because of you.
I mean, I have my rank here, it best number.
When I was growing up, we didn't have female role models,
and lucky enough Ali gets that, who's your daughter. I
looked up to people like you, and I was like,
if I'm going to do this, I have to be him,
and I have to move like him, and I have

(06:58):
to commit this same level that he did whatever it
took to get there, I need to do. And then
when I met you, I was like, oh my god,
he's the coolest fucking human, like peel away all of
the success and you know, forward facing, you know, in
the spotlight. You're just a good human And a lot
of that is a product of our youth and our

(07:20):
environment and how we're raised, the decisions we make. So
I want to start there. Who was Timmy? You know,
five six seven year old boy grew you know, you
grew up in New Jersey with a single your mom
was raising you. You start discovering a lot of things
about yourself at a young age, like Tourette's or o

(07:43):
c D. And so I'm curious how your youth, your childhood,
shaped you into this lovely human.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
I adore thank you, Yeah, I mean I appreciate the
wonderful words, and that the fact that you looked up
to me and now, my you've paved the way for
my daughter to do the things and be great in
the game. And you know, she looked at me the
other day and said and said, uh, you know, I
want to I want to after college, I want to
pursue professional soccer. And you know it dawned on me

(08:17):
at that moment. I knew it. I know you, and
I know some man of your teammates and friends of mine,
and I knew that that's a reality. But when your
daughter says it, you're like, okay, because fifteen years ago
you and I wouldn't have been having that conversation. So like, wow, amazing.
And you know I think that I think that who
so much of who I am, when you take away
the brashness, is just that little kid from New Jersey.

(08:39):
I was raised by an incredible woman. You know, my
mom was an immigrant, she came over. She was born
in nineteen fifty King Too States and fifty six during
during the Hungarian Revolution in Budapest, and you know, struggled
through life, didn't have a ton of money. My grant,
my grandparents, you know, work their butts off. And so

(09:02):
I always had that kind of inner drive to like,
you don't have a lot, you're gonna you have to
work for what you have. And you know, for me,
the hard work was easy because I had I was
given a gift and a passion for sports in general,
but soccer. And you know, I could always remember my
dad was a long haul truck driver. I wasn't around

(09:22):
a whole lot, and I just always remember like when
when things got tough for and you've been in the
same boots that I have. When things got tough for me,
I was like, man, my mom and dad would kill
for for this, Like this ain't hard work, you know
what I mean, Like it hurt, yeah, but it was
like this ain't hard work. And so I was. I
was raised the right way, and you know, coming up
in New Jersey, had a great childhood, lower socioeconomic household.

(09:46):
My mom worked a couple of jobs. And again at
the time, that's normal. Divorce was normal, you know, A
mixed race kid was normal. Like I didn't even know
what it was. I mean, I would tell a funny
story in the mid mid eighties. I was in grade
school and some and commented on the color of my skin,
and they weren't being mean, and I said, yeah, my
family goes to Florida every every Christmas. And in my head,

(10:08):
I was like, I go to Florida, I get a
sun tan. I had no idea why my skin was
that color, and so I had a really I had
a really good upbringing about I was about nine years old,
so you're looking late eighties, you know, I started having
some things going on with me, and it was when
you were a kid, it's just kind of who you are.

(10:30):
And I knew something fell off. My OCD and my
counting and my touching door handles and counting steps and
all the things that I was doing seemed weird and
we're a little bit annoying to a young my young self,
but I didn't really know what it was. I just
got on with it. I went to school, and played soccer.
It wasn't debilitating as the word is. And then and

(10:52):
then my ticks started to arrive shortly thereafter. Again felt different.
Was it felt a little bit odd, but it wasn't
as if I was like in my room in a
dark corner crying about it. It was like, this is kind
of weird, but can I go out and play? You know?
And so as a parent, as you know, that's when
my mom starts going, hmmm, something's not quite adding up

(11:15):
with my son. So I often tell a story God
bless her. She went to the library, and I tell
young kids today the libraries that thing that has a
bunch of books in it, because they don't quite get
what that is. And there was no internet, and so
my mom's pulling books off the shelf and writing notes,
and we kind of had this bit of a self diagnosis.
And once she kind of got a grip of what

(11:38):
she thought was going on with me, we went and
saw a specialist and a neurologist and they confirmed it.
And at the time I think it was like I
think my family exhaled and they were just like, all right, cool,
we got we got a name for this thing. Now
we can figure out treatments or whatever that is. And
I was kind of like, cool, there's a name to it.
But I don't really change anything. Soccer was my sports,

(12:01):
but soccer was my my haven. Soccer was you know,
I was a rambunctious kid, clearly OCD and ADHD, and
I was hyperactive and I was ticking in twitch and
I had all this stuff going on. And my mom
was like, pick a sport, get out of the house.
And so I was like, all right, it's fall in
New Jersey, so we go play soccer. And then I
went to was basketball and then baseball in spring, but
I gravitated towards soccer and I loved it, and it

(12:21):
was just it became you know, we talk about passion,
what does that mean. It became like I cried when
the games got rained out. I had my shint guards
on and my jersey and I'm like, well, why can't
we play soccer? And I wanted to be on the
field and sliding around and doing all the things. And
so that part for me, it's like, no wonder I
ended up playing soccer at the level I did. But

(12:43):
I have to say even in my even in my youth,
I wouldn't say I had it easy. But I talked
to so many young people with TS, and I hear
their story. I'm just motivated by them. You know, they're
going to tell me they're they're motivated by me, but
I'm inspired by them. And you know, I was. I
was a popular kid. I was athletic, I had popular friends.

(13:06):
Not too popular as everything, but to a fourteen year
old Tim Howard, popular was everything. And so I kind
of had I kind of had this opportunity to just
allow myself to to be normal, whatever that normal looked like.
I didn't get made fun of, per se. And I
just when I work with some of these young kids
and groups on the neurodiversity level and the treat syndrom level,

(13:29):
I'm just like floored by how far we've come. We've
got a long way to go, but how far we've come.
And you know, and even even back then, I was
so nervous to show who I was and to hide
my tics. And as I got older, you know, in
my late teens and early twenties, it was about like, no, like,

(13:50):
put a face to this thing and be a voice
for the voiceless. And and I'll always continue to do that.
And I spoke to a I spoke to a young
girl last night, part of the New Jersey Trets and
Drum associate and she's fourteen years old. She's a freshman
high school and she was telling me all about she's
going to Congress to speak and she speaks to assemblies
at a school and I'm just like, who are you?
Like you're on my team now? Like I mean, she

(14:12):
was just so incredibly passionate about her TS, and I
was like, that is like, that's amazing because I was not.
And I just there's this like full circle moment with her.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Not everyone has, I'm sure the luxury of being the
popular kid, and I'm sure so many young kids with
TS and OCD are really getting picked on and harassed.
And I'm very much an advocate of you know, talking
about the bullying that goes on in schools and now

(14:43):
having social media, and I'm curious, is this why it
became such a big deal to you? And is this
why you became you know, a voice to what TS is?

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, Look, they always remember two odd different conversations. But
my mom would always say to whom much is given,
much is required. And people say, like, what's the best
advice you've ever gotten. That's it and and I remember
hating it. I'm like, why I didn't ask for all this,
you know, and she would say, well, listen, this is
the way it goes. And I go okay, and so

(15:19):
I think, you know, I think me championing that cause
for TS is exactly what you said, like, not everyone
gets to be popular or good at sports and can
kind of like have TS b the secondary thing people
talk about. It's always the first thing. And so I, yeah,
I was. I was fortunate there and so and so
I immediately felt like, not everyone gets this. So I'm

(15:39):
not going to be naive enough to think that people
don't need help and need a voice and need to advocacy.
And so that was that was huge, And I think
the legacy part is really I remember it distinctly. I
was probably I was at Everton Stills in one of
my last year is probably about thirty five years old.
I have a wonderful agent who I've had I still
have today, and I've had him, say and I was

(16:00):
twenty two years old or something like that, and we've
had We've gone from agent, player, mentor friend coy. He's
just he's amazing and I remember him saying, and I
was thirty five and I was on the phone. He said,
what do you want your legacy to be? And I
scoffed at him and I don't ever, very rarely keep
up with him and vice versa. But I was like,
I don't what do you mean, I don't know legacy.

(16:22):
I was like, I'm focused on one in the next
Premier League game. I want, I want, I want to
continue to be great, like I have time to think
about legacy. And then it hit and then you know,
he obviously stirred something in me. And over the next
few years that's ten years ago, and over the next
few years it was like, right, what what what do
you want to let your legacy be? And like how
important is that to you? And it's everything to me

(16:42):
because I think you realize when you leave the game
that was so much. You know, you go back to
young timmy young Ashton kicking a ball like that was
that's all you ever wanted to do. And in order
to be great, and I sincerely believe this, in order
to be great at soccer or any sport, but for
us it soccer, you have to be so singularly focused.
You have to be so vulnerable and selfish an area

(17:03):
you can't get to the top by being like the
aw shucks person. I don't believe that. I think you
have to give and take a lot. And so when
I thought about legacy, particularly now, it was like I
had a great career, like, it doesn't do it doesn't
It stands there and it's in the hall, and it's

(17:25):
hung on a wall and you can read it. And yes,
I think it inspires some people, but I didn't really
and this is different from you and your teammates. I
didn't really necessarily create change. I think I created a
legacy of some sort and some inspiration. But now that
I'm done, my focus in terms of legacy is how

(17:46):
can I create a lasting change. How can I create
change in the game, because soccer is important to me
that that is going to change people's lives. Like, yes,
you can cheer for a team, and that's exciting, but
when I you know, in the conversations that I'm having,
particularly which is basically one of my big passions at
the moment, is around HBCU women's soccer right and talking

(18:10):
to organizations and programs that have women's soccer programs at
their at their universities and some that don't, and how
do how do we make that change? Because I look
at my daughter who has worked her butt off. She
comes from very privileged background, very privileged parents, and she's
put the hard work in and she's going to University

(18:30):
of Tennessee go Valls and they have everything, and that's amazing.
That's what I want for my daughter. But I look
at some of these young women who are going to
HBCUs who want to pursue soccer careers, and they're no
different than my daughter. They have the same want, same desires.
They want to save space to play, they want to
be supported financially and otherwise they don't have all of that.
And so I'm looking into that space of trying to
figure out how do I make a change. You know
when I when I looked at investing in football clubs

(18:55):
and I kicked the tires with teams in Europe and
MLS and NWSL. You know, when we got to the
conversation with the Houston Donmo and Dash, such a major
part of the poll for me was being able to
have a hand, a helping hand in women's sports that
it's already been driven to near astronomical levels, But how
can I be a part of the conversation from an

(19:17):
investment but also supporting role and empowering people to continue
to drive women's soccer forward. So that for me was
like that's what legacy is, Like I do and I
don't mean to downplay my career. My career was amazing.
I'm so thankful, Like it couldn't have gone better. It
really couldn't have. But like now what you know, Like
it's like, now what because I can I can no
longer add to that, Like that's there was the whistle

(19:39):
blew and it was done, like quite literally, I cannot
add to that anymore. So it's like, you know, I
took so much from the game and I was and
I've always kind of thought like how how can I
give back? I probably never give back equal measures to
what I've taken, but I it's like, what can I
do outside of the game to affect real part, like

(19:59):
real positive change, And like that's my driving force.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
I love that And because that was going to be
one of my next question questions where it was when
you were growing up you had success very early? Yeah,
what was your why how did you know? You know?
High school? You're playing with you know, by high school
you were already a pro. Let's just call it what
it is. Was there a moment where you thought, hmm,

(20:25):
I can really do something here. I can provide for
myself in a way that nothing else probably can. And
I can help my parents, and I can do all
these things, and I want this better life for myself.
Was that a part of it or were you just
a young kid having fun?

Speaker 2 (20:43):
I think I think the former.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
I was.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
I was brash, and I was arrogant. I remember, like
I was sitting on the bench for the Metro stores
behind tonme all the great times. I mean, you want
to talk about icons. He became a dear friend and
I'm so thankful for his friendship, but a real mentor.
And I just remember sitting on the bench and like
I looked back and like, what an idiot. I think
I went to the GM at the time and I said, well,

(21:08):
I wouldn't be playing, and he like looked at me,
and I can't even imagine the conversation. I was guys
looking at me like, but Tony Meola is stuff like
he barely not to catch a ball at the moment,
And I just remember being arrogant enough to feel like
I believe in myself and you know, God rest his soul.
Kobe Bryant, you know, he's a similar age of mine,
and I remember at the time he like went from

(21:30):
high school to the pros and I was not Kobe Bryant,
but I remember thinking like, well, yeah, well he did it,
so why can't I, Like, I want to be a starter.
I want to be a superstar too, Like I don't know,
just these like probably you know, at the time a
little silly and crazy, but as you know, became prophetic
that helped me along the way of like I wanted

(21:52):
to be great. I want you know, there was a
time when I wanted to be the greatest US goalkeeper
of all time. And I remember Bruce Arena, who is
one of my favorite coaches. And I've had some great
ones along the way, you know. I had Casey Keller
and and Brad Friedel were established premier leagu goalkeepers. And
I just went to Man United. I was playing and

(22:12):
I was feeling myself and We're going into qualifying or
World Cup or something, and I was like I should
be playing, and he was like, no, you shouldn't, and
I was like, well, Brad plays at Blackburn and Casey
plays it. Todd him I played Manion, that best team
in the world. As we playing, I canna have this
conversation with Bruce Arena, and I'm like, like, god, if
I if I, if I knew then what I know now.

(22:35):
But you know, there was just this arrogance and it
wasn't it wasn't hollow. It was backed up by by eating, sleeping,
waking up every single day and driving myself to exhaustion
and feeling like I was the greatest. And I think
I always had that brashness. Soccer at a certain point
became it wasn't fun anymore. I know you can attest

(22:57):
to that, and I don't mean, I don't mean that
to sound they Ultimately, in order to achieve greatness on
the level that you and I did, it has to
become it has to become this no holds bar dark business.
It just the fun is out of it becomes competition.

(23:18):
And so what what I, in a very sadistic way,
enjoyed was the competition was the fierceness of it. Would
I say it's fun, No, because I can I compare
fun with like laughing and being jovial and haha, and
like pure enjoyment. That wasn't what soccer was for me.
It was it was competitive, and I enjoy I love

(23:41):
to compete, love to compete. In fact, I don't do
a lot of things now with my friends because I
know that I can't just do something. I'm going to
compete and I'm going to lose friends and so and so.
It was never really fun. And again I don't mean
that as like, oh, you shouldn't do it. I love it.
I do it all over again. But like for me,
it was always about chasing greatness.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, and I can relate to that, and I do
understand it, and I don't think people understand. I think
it's so powerful that you're willing to share that because
people only see the successful beauty of sports, which a
lot and when it comes to men, it's the women,

(24:21):
it's the homes, it's the cars, it's all of these things.
It's the jewelry, and it's the things that don't really
matter and don't give us worth. But no one talks
about the darkness, and no one talks about the pain,
the isolation, the sacrifice. Like I truly believe this, we

(24:44):
were in a lot of ways. You're brainwashed to suffer. Yes,
you are absolutely, Like if I wasn't suffering, I wasn't
doing my job. And this is why so many people
in sports and entertainment turn to substance abuse, turn to depression,

(25:06):
turn because it is the amount you have to give
to be exceptional every single day, and when it fucking
slaps you in the nose, you have to choose to
do it all over again the next morning. And I
think about this because I didn't enjoy it either. I
don't miss the game, and I don't mean that in

(25:27):
a disrespectful way. It's like being chased, right, It's like
being chased by thousands of people. You can't slow down,
you can't cut corners. You have to keep running to
be the best because everyone's chomping at your heels. And
you get to a point where you're just fucking tired.

(25:51):
I just got so tired. I got tired of fighting.
I would literally wake up. I would wake up from
sleeping and think someone was working, Like while I was sleeping,
someone was working harder than me. What did you have
to unlearn? Because you talk about you know the sacrifices

(26:11):
you made, you know how you showed up to be
the best and even talk about your family and not
being able to What things did you have to unlearn
when you became like a normal citizen.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yeah, yes, I mean you so eloquently expressed what we
both have experienced and felt. And you know, I'm a
I'm a fan of I'm an NBA fan. I'm a
soccer fan, but I'm an NBA fan first and foremost,
and I go to these games. I'm entertained, and I'm
so thankful to have this perspective, right because these these

(26:46):
guys at WNBA and women, but they danced to dance
on the court, on the lights, and it's great. And
You're like, I don't know what's going on at home
with them. I don't know what kind of I don't
know how well they slept last night. They got to
get on a plane and they got to they gotta
flyt to Sacramento right now, Like I'm going home, I'm chilling.
I've been entertained, right, and so you never see what
goes on behind the scenes, And I'm thankful that I
have I'm able to be compassionate to that. But I

(27:08):
think what I needed to unlearn most is dovetailing on
what we just talked about for me and other athletes
to be great, to be to be truly great, or
at least chase greatness and try and become the one percent.
Like you said that you always felt like you were
being chased, right, I felt that, And I also felt

(27:30):
because I played in the Premier League and because of
the way the tabloid media is, I always felt around
every corner someone had a knife and they were ready
to they were ready to jab it in me, right
because so I had just been I'd been stabbed in
jabs so many times that it was like, you know,
I can I can remember, and I truly mean this.
You know, you'd have this old granny and grandpa and

(27:52):
in the supermarket in Manchester and in that area you've
got City fans, Manchester United fans, Liverpool fans, whoever. And
I remember coming around the corner and they look at
me and they'd recognize me. They recognize every footballer in
our village or whatever, and I remember thinking they're gonna
say something. They always say something. It might be good
and it might be bad. But my initial thought was
they've recognized me. Get ready, they're gonna say something. What

(28:14):
are you going to say? Back, how are you going
to react? And that's like twenty four hours a day,
and so you then become hard, and you then become
prepared and ready to pull the trigger on a negative
response back to them, right, like, so it's negative all
the time. And again I ashon if I had to
do it all over again, I would. I would. I
had to. I had to go to some dark places

(28:37):
to get ready for games, both physically and mentally, prepared
for the backlash of fans, the opposing fans singing songs
about my Trette syndrome, my own fans. I can hear
the murmurs. So he's not good enough and he let
another goal in, and so like this constant, like I
tell the story all the time, Like David, I played
four hundred and fifteen times for everyon football club. It's

(28:58):
it's the love of my life. I can assure you, right,
And this is so sad to say, but there's the
truth in it. There were times he picked me. I
think I had a run of like almost two hundred
games consecutively. He picked me every weekend. And there was
so many weekends when I was like, put me out
of my misery, Like when you put the team sheet up.
I wouldn't even care today if my name wasn't on it, right,
And that sounds like a revelation and a hot take.

(29:21):
It wasn't. I was like, I was prepared, but I
was scared of death. I was scared to death to
go out there. You know. I can remember having an
injury at one point, and I played through everything, and
I just remember thinking, I went to the physios and saying,
I mean in chection, my knees hanging off, went to
my goalkeeper coach saying, I know he's gonna play me today,
but put a word. And I'm struggling, and I'm just
like desperately hoping he doesn't pick me that day. But

(29:44):
he did, and I went out and played and and
so you get into that negative mind space. Not negative
for me, it was a dark place. It was a
dark in order to compete at that level. I had
to I had to be you know, by by Thursday night.
Don't call it, don't text, don't ask me for anything.
Like it's no wonder I got divorced by the way
I'd said it all the time, like like the kids
need to be fed. Like do you really think I

(30:06):
was trying to make macaroni and cheese, Like I'm just
worried about Chelsea banging another five on me, you know,
like it was so it was so difficult. And then
when you remove yourself from the game, and you know,
I always talk about like, and I mean this, like
the bus didn't leave without me, right, meaning yeah, I
know it was a little behind, but I had something
else to do. And like, what bus ain't leaving. I
know there's thirty people on there, but it'll leave when I

(30:27):
get on it. Like that's like I had the biggest
god complex, and I think so many athletes doing it.
And so the transformation after came when I realized that like, yeah,
I had some clout from the game, but ultimately I
wanted more, like I wanted more for myself. It took
it took a while, but I was like, you can't.
You can't live life that way. Like that's what I

(30:47):
was saying that what truly made me successful was my mindset.
And after I was done playing, it was the biggest detriment.
You can't you can't take that into relationships. You can't
take that into friendships, can't take that into the business world.
I meant on parts of the business world. But I
had to truly like get down next to people and
carry water. And you know, even in my roles, even

(31:11):
in my roles now like with ownership and Houston Dash
and Dynamo, naturally my name goes in the door before
I do, right, So people seeing it like, oh, it's
Tim Howard, And really I don't matter. You matter. You're
the striker on the Dash, You're the striker on the
on the Dynamo. You matter. I don't matter. I'm here
to serve you that served the community, helped the club
grow so that you can be better. And so it's

(31:33):
not only relearning for me, it's also relearning for like
the people who I come in contact with and how
how I present myself and making sure that like the
humility comes first, that I can basically say that, I'm like,
this isn't about me taking a picture of Sig an autograph.
I'll do that for you all day long. So but
this is about me serving you in this role. And
that's a complete one eighty from what it's like as

(31:55):
a player.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harre.
Thanks for listening. We'll be right back. It Really it's
it's such a good perspective, and I'm glad that you
started sharing a little bit about the tabloids, because I
don't think people realize the harm it does to people

(32:19):
and the doors it opens up in terms of the
hate and abuse. If people don't know, let me be
very clear, European soccer, especially the EPL, people live and
die by it. This is like generational like people grow
up and their parent, their grandparent, their grandparents parents, Like,

(32:41):
there's so much culture and history in the teams, in
the places they've been born raised, who they choose. The
depth is beyond I just I can't even compare it
to any American sports. I just really can't. And that's

(33:02):
just a fact. How hard was that for you coming
from America stepping into this, you know, literally the best
league in the world, best teams in the world, and
being a target constantly of the tabloids, and you know

(33:23):
you're about you know your divorce plays out. Meanwhile, you
have to show up and be a good teammate, which
is what you're talking about. You have to pick up
the water bottles on days you just want to quit
and give up. I'm curious how you've felt the ability
to continue. I wonder how much the media and the

(33:46):
press impacted your because your private life's your private life.
Him like, it is not like we're not You can
say whatever the fuck you want about me as a goalkeeper,
but you will not talk about my family and my
children and my choices off the field. But tabloids are
entitled too, and they know that's the place to hit

(34:09):
you the hardest. And I'm curious being in that type
of space, being so far away from your safety, which
are your people? How'd you deal with it?

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah, it's a brilliant question because what I had to
learn right away is like when I got over, I
was twenty two years old, right flying high. And what
I learned very quick quickly is like they don't love
you like that, you know, like in America and when
not to say age, but generationally we are And you know,
I came from an MLS started in nineteen ninety six.

(34:41):
You know, I left eight years later. You know, I
think my first season was ninety eight, but I left
a couple of years later, and MLS back then was
one point. Oh. Right, we're playing in NFL stadiums, So
you have a seventy thousand seat stadium with six thousand
people in it. It's a primitive league, it's a fledging league.
And everybody loved me. Everybody loved everybody. Everybody loved all this.

(35:04):
They were just happy to have soccer. Right. So you
go to New York Metro Stars, who are now the
Red Bulls, go to play Kansas City, and everyone wants autograph.
They don't hate you, they're just excited that there's a
soccer game going on. And so here's here's jolly old
American going over to England and it's like, they don't
care if they like they hate you. They don't even
know you. They hate you. You played for a red team.

(35:25):
Well I don't support that Red team. I hate you,
and and so it was. It was a learning curve
and I can talk about it very easily today, but
at the time it filled me with rage and hate
and misunderstanding. And I didn't quite get why. Like I
didn't do anything that bad, like I let a Goland, Like,
what was it that bad? Like? And so as you said,

(35:46):
letting a Goland goes goes or leads to he's not
very good, leads to he sucks, leads to let'say, we
can find in this private life, and so all of
a sudden, I'm like, wait a minute, this spiral out
of control quick. And so the only way that I
knew how was to rain things back in was again,
circle those wagons. And this is the birth of that mentality,

(36:08):
that dark mentality of not really allowing too many people in,
not trusting a lot of people, keeping my circle as
tight as humanly possible, and and not trusting. And once I,
once I was able to trim that fat and get

(36:28):
the circle that I needed, I was okay. But that
took a number of years because people like to said,
are people pleasers? I think ninety percent of human beings
are people pleasers, right, And so you're just trying to
like please a media and please your coach. But I
got to a point where I'm like, nah, I'm gonna
please myself. And by pleasing myself, I'm going to perform really, really,

(36:49):
really well, and I'll be the judge. My goalkeeper, coach
be the judge. My best friend who knows soccer will
be the judge of how I performed, and I'll use
that as my barometer. But it's a tough it's a
tough place to get to and quite Frankly. An add
on to that is not many people make it out
of it. They just don't, you know, they don't when
you're when you look at, particularly in the men's game careers,

(37:13):
being front loaded with money, seventeen eighteen, nineteen year olds
making the majority of their money at that age. Also
then going into a peer group that's not really with
their peers. They're with thirty year old men, thirty five
year old men, right that they have nothing in common
with other than a soccer ball, and they try and
keep up with them, and they try and buy the
Lamborghinis and then the range drovers and all of that.

(37:35):
And so you're trying to keep up with your peers
which actually aren't your peers. And then you go into well,
we're your friends, and if you don't take care of
your friends, you're a sellout. So you got to do
some of this. I mean, I play with guys, you know.
I play with a young French kid I remember, and
I won't name him, but he came over playing in
the premierly making a good living. He was broke. He
was broke. You send them money to gangsters back in Paris.

(37:57):
He's betting. He just never made it out, you know,
you can never get a grip of it, and so
and so it's really it's really difficult because you're just
trying to please so many, so many people. But for me,
it was again, I'm thankful, humble beginnings. I was raised
the right way. I had a good agent who wasn't slimy,
who wasn't out for himself, who is incredibly humble and

(38:17):
took on the role of mentor just as much as
he did agents. So thankful, lucky, appreciative of that I had.
I had my circle.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
I love that, and I I can't imagine like as
someone who cares for you and knows how present you
are as a dad when you talk about that, because
what people don't realize is the sacrifices for these fans
that torch us so fucking quickly and put all of
our worth on a sport, which is just what we do.

(38:47):
It's not who we are. You still, you know, you
go through this really tough time in your life, You
get divorced, and the worst part is is your kids
go back to the States, right and they moved to Memphis.
People people don't know that side, and you don't talk
about that side because this is the life you chose,

(39:11):
and people don't see that, they don't get it, they
don't understand it. And when they're so quick to torch everything,
I'm sitting here choosing to do this life that is
fucking hard, Yeah, and a lot of times unbearable. While
my children are in a different country, who I'm not
seeing every day, who I'm not watching them grow up.

(39:36):
I'm interested to know how that affected you and how
much you loved the game.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, it's such a it's such a there's so many
layers to that, you know. When I when I think
about my divorce and that time, it was so difficult
on both the kids and myself and of course my
ex and I remember I remember being in soccer saving.
I remember being around the training ground all day. Wouldn't sleep,
you know, barely sleep, and driving and training ground, get

(40:02):
my breakfast and coffee, and talk to the lunch ladies
in the cafeteria, who are basically like gods at any
football football ground, and they're like the mother hens, you know,
like keeple just keep us all in check. And I'd
go training and then I'd do my rehab and get
my massages and maybe go for a swim and everybody's gone.
Then I go up and have lunch, maybe like five

(40:22):
o'clock afternooner like why don't you go home? Like no,
I mean go home, but the house is empty. My
mom own family's here, right, and so like I swear,
and that sounds funny, like I spent hours at the
training ground, like like making sure that I left a
little bit before the manager, but but not not much
like I was always there because that was like my
home and and my safety net. But the mentality piece

(40:46):
is interesting. I have a friend who's a world class
boxer in Liverpool's name is Tony Bell you and he
would he's an Everton fan and we got a chance
to know him really well, and I remember like he
shed perspective because when you're in it, you don't know
until you, like until other people you're like, oh okay, okay,
like it's gonna be okay. And I remember him saying
he was in a fight. He was bruising batter and

(41:07):
it was it was. It was in between the eleventh
and twelfth round and it's trained to put his stool
out and he's getting a cut, he's getting cuts managed
to his face. He's got ic and he's got one
round to be world champion and I'm getting goosebumps telling
the story and he's like Tim we say, we say
like after the fact, like yeah, I did it because
my kids are watching. I did it because my family.
He's like, f that bro. He's like, I got off

(41:27):
that stool when I could barely walk because I wanted
to be world champion. I did it for me. And
like he's like, is it selfish? Yeah? Does it sound
really great when I say like I did it for
my kids? Afterward? Yeah, He's like the truth of the
matter is I did it because I wanted to be
great and no one else could know, no one else
could get me or propel me there. And I just
remember thinking like yeah, like that was it. Like I

(41:48):
circled the wagons, I got off that stool and I
went in and grind every day because I was chasing
greatness and I was doing it relentlessly. And it is
a drug. And for those who haven't ever had the
opportunity to do it, that drive that fear, like fear,
fear feels like a bad thing, and it is most
times in life, but like that fear is a drug.

(42:10):
That adrenaline is a drug. The desire that chase is
a drug, and that's what like you can never mimic,
and so like for me, even though I was going
through this hellish period in my life, I still was
able to find that like that was that was my
north star, Like had I not had the competition or

(42:31):
I was spiral out of control, like my north star
was like, Okay, I missed my kids beyond belief, crying
myself to sleep while they're crying themselves to sleep on
the phone. But the one thing that continues to carry me,
like on a daily basis is being able to compete.
Because basically what I've learned, what I had learned to

(42:52):
do by that point, and I was probably about thirty
years old, was I had the ability to for moments
shut everything out, not driving, driving in I thought about everything,
not tying my boots, thought about everything. But when I
cross the line and the balls coming at me and
I'm directing traffic, and I was locked in the zone,
and I was able to get my mind to that
place for ninety minutes or for two hours of training,

(43:14):
and then training stopped, and that's why I didn't go
home because I was like, I don't want to go
home and think about it. I want to talk to somebody,
and I want to, you know, chat to my coaches,
and I want to do anything other than think. And
so the game at that point in time saved me
for sure.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
I love that you. You have this incredible career at Everton.
I think about watching you at the World Cup when
you you still hold the record of the most saves
against Belgium. Was it fifteen, fifteen or sixteen?

Speaker 2 (43:43):
I'll I'll take sixty, but they say one of the two.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
And it's interesting because that is really everyone talks about it,
and I know your personality and what people don't realize
is we don't give a shit how we perform if
we don't win. Yeah, right, It's like you had a
great game but you didn't win. But so I'm interested,
how did you handle that moment because it went viral everywhere.

(44:09):
I mean, when we have a term in sports as
a goalkeeper that you stood on your head, I mean
nothing could get past you. Even though you didn't win
the game. That was one of the most dominant performance
of all time. What's your perspective on it. I'm curious
for someone who ticks the way you, who is never settled.

(44:30):
Who nothing is ever good enough. How does that feel
for you?

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, it's a special moment to me. It, you know,
to shed light on it, It's like we didn't win,
but I put in a performance to help my teammates
win a football match in a game we weren't supposed
to win. And if there's anything short of a win,

(44:55):
that's it. I mean. The way that me and my
brothers performed that night against Belgium was epic, and we
had one or two opportunities and extra time to tie
and bring into penalties. It wasn't meant to be, but
we were never meant to be in that game. And
the fact that the eleven of us were out there
on our own, fighting for each other, that was special.

(45:16):
And the game, you know, the game itself, sports is
so freaking weird. I remember I was in my prime.
I was thirty five, and I had a good season
in the Premier League. And like the fact that I
played really well in the group stages and the Belgium
game looking back as no surprise because it was it
was when I was supposed to perform the best that
if you look at a goalkeeper or a player's career

(45:37):
but a goalkeepers career, like that was the moment twenty ten,
two and six. I didn't play twenty and ten. I
was a little bit young and fresh, but that was
my prime two on fourteen and so I did it
and I was I was happy about that. I think
where initially I was, and I think you can appreciate
this initially, like it broke records of memes and it

(45:58):
was like I was now and everybody's consciousness and I
remember thinking like there was this really weird, stupid and
very few people can get it. I remember thinking, like,
you know, you just recognizing what I'm doing, like I've
been doing this thing in the Premier league for years,
Like where was my flowers? Then I know that sounds
a arrogant and selfish, but I'm like, you watched one
game in a World Cup and now like you're a fan,
I'm like, I've been doing this for a long time
at a high level. But that slowly or sorry, quickly

(46:21):
turned to realizing that like I've had a lot of moments,
great moments, but not everyone gets that singular shining moment
to where you know, I talked about the final whistle
for me blue, like it was over and I have
nothing more on the pitch to give to the game.
And I think for me now, I have a connectivity

(46:43):
with so many soccer people, fans and otherwise that always
reflect that one game. So I could be in the supermarket,
I can be in the airport, I can be anywhere
and people will come up to me and reference that
game and want to talk about where they were and
share that, you know, I was in the parking Chicago,
or I was with my boys in the pub or
whatever it was, and I'm like, that's cool, man, Like

(47:04):
I like, I now have a better appreciation of what
that game meant like for my career and for my
interaction with my soccer community throughout the world, throughout throughout
America in particular, and I'm just really thankful. And you know,
as as for the game itself, it was I talked
to I think I talked to Jeremy Shapp after the game.

(47:25):
He was interviewing you. I think he was in an
interview and he said he asked me about the record.
I was like, what record? You know, I didn't really
know what that meant. We lost. I was exhausted. I
would just talk to some of my buddies and and
I just remember thinking like, wow, I had no idea.
And as a as a kid, I know people debate
there's only one go it's Michael Jordan. But we there's
plenty of time to talk about that. And he talked

(47:46):
about being in the zone and no one in sports
had ever heard what that meant or knew what that meant.
And I think that was early nineties, and he said
I was just in the zone. And he further explained
like things just slowed down and and it was like
slow motion. He was moving freely, but everything else was
in slow motion. And I remember that game, being in

(48:07):
the goal and we were wear in white and playing Belgium.
They were red, and I remember red blurs and blobs,
and I remember some sort of noise. I definitely remember
the smell of the grass, but I don't remember saves.
I don't remember actions. You know, I've never watched the
game back. I've seen highlights, of course, but it was

(48:28):
really a strange feeling to be in that zone because
I'm like, oh, that's a that's a fictional, made up thing,
and so you actually are thrust into it, like whoa,
that's a that's a place where you can physically be
and you know, and from the goalkeeper standpoint, I love
that I'm sitting here with you. Like, people asked me
what that game was like, and I remember saying, like,

(48:49):
as a goalkeeper, your job is to keep a clean sheet.
And then it's a numbers game. If you conceed one goal,
your job is to only concede one goal. You can
see two goals, like, it's not like, oh shocks right,
and so if you can see two goals, your job
is to not worry about the fact I didn't keep
it clean sheeted, to make sure you don't can see
the third right, Like, it's just a simple numbers game.
So this concept of like the saves started adding up

(49:09):
and I was like, yeah, for me, it wasn't about
to save. So I was like, why did Kevin de
Bruyna get in on the angle? I need to fix this.
I need to talk more to the center back, I
need to pull the left back, and I need to
figure out something. So my mind is constantly only how
do I direct this traffic? How do I stop the
next one from coming? The fact that there was sixteen
saves is epic, but I was trying to make sure
that one didn't turn into two or eight saves didn't

(49:30):
turn into nine, which it ended up doing. But from
a psychological standpoint, you know as well as I do,
you're not even Your only focus is those like six
players in front of you trying to organize them, and
that takes on a life of itself. So I don't
even remember much of the game other than you know,
me be rating and yelling at a few of my
players and then trying to hype them up. That's what

(49:50):
we exactly.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
That is exactly what And you nail it there, Tim,
because you are playing chess like your job is to
move of all the pieces before it even happens. And
I think that is the difference between good and great.
There are plenty of good goalkeepers out there, but do
they see it before it even happens. That is the

(50:12):
difference in our position. And I love and I don't
remember exactly what you said, but you have this great quote,
and I believe it was in your book. Your one
goal away from being the villain is that exactly? Yes,
explain that well, because I don't think people get the pressure,
and people don't understand what it's like to be back

(50:32):
there alone. We played a team sport. We're very, very
rarely involved with the masses with the team. Yeah, it's
very isolating.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
It's isolating, and the margins are different. You know, I'm
very thankful my daughter is a striker, and I remember
the first time she when it did the rotational thing
in you socker, she put the gloves and start crying.
I was like, thank god. I think goal gives the
worst position in the world. But the margins are different,
right as a striker. As a striker, if you miss
ten chances in a game and score one, you get

(51:05):
mad of the match, and which is fine. I'm okay
with that because I want my strikers to score. But
as a goalkeeper, it's not the same. You know, you
miss you miss three or four four goals and you
make one save. It's not the same. And so you know,
from from a goal keeping standpoint now is as a
as a commentator and an analyst, I oftentimes try and

(51:26):
in the way I can educate people where we're so
they're so quick to jump on goalkeepers, and I often say,
like the other side of a world class save can't
be a mistake, meaning oftentimes people will say, well the
keeper should have had that and My reference point is
if the keeper did have that, you and I would
be sitting here going wow, what a world class safe.
So then so then the opposite of that by an

(51:48):
inch or two can't be all keepers should have had it,
and it could It can't be a mistake, and so
and so, because you're the last line, because you're the
last hope. Really, even when everything else breaks down, we're
so quick as goepers to be villainized and to be
scrutinized more harshly. You know, you could you could go
through a game, or you could go through a stretch
of five games as a midfielder and never be in

(52:09):
a position to be villainized. One touch, two touch, run, tackle, jump,
you're not really in a position to like affect the game, holy,
where as a goalkeeper, you know, every single minute of
every game, you could be put in a position to
affect the game positively and negatively.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Absolutely, And you said this at the beginning, which I'm
really curious about all of these things happen. You know,
you're thirty five years old, truthfully, at probably top of
your game, and you you feel the sense of hope,
like the country had so much hope for our men's

(52:44):
national team. Was that a contributing factor of why you
decided to go to the MLS?

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah, So again I say, I'm very thankful because my
career wasn't cut short, right, and I was able to
make a lot of decisions and plan a lot of
people can play. And so I was saying, like, Okay,
this contract and my contract Everton ends in twenty sixteen,
I don't really want to renew it. Even though Everton
is the love of my life, It's time for me

(53:11):
to go back home. You know. Certainly the proximity to
my children played the biggest role in that, but I
was also I was also a part of, you know,
a soccer generation and people forget this a little bit.
So I made my debut for the national team full
national team in two thousand and two, went to the
twenty and six World Cup as a second goalkeeper, then

(53:32):
twenty ten in South Africa and then fourteen in Brazil.
People forget that. Twenty ten, essentially, give or take, was
the rise of social media. Right, So I've had nearly
a decade on the national team, you know, applying my trade.
Then we get down to South Africa. Things changed for
our group, for our generation. Right, You're now people are

(53:53):
sharing on social media, right, So people who are casual
soccer fans are leaving the office and they're going in
the pubs and the parks and they're celebrating. They're not
really soccer fans, but they're like, Yo, what is this
I want to see? And that changed the tide for
for certainly for us men that people were recognie we
were all way down South Africa. I mean, the time
difference was crazy, and people were watching and we're we're
seeing it in real time now, right because we don't

(54:15):
have to watch a news program. We're seeing all these
clips on on social media and everyone's new to it.
And so being part of that change and then fast
forward four years, the people who work like kind of
dipping their tone of soccer like, yeah, Brazil, this is
our time, right, God bless the American fan, right, and
so it's our time. We're gonna do it and so
and so I love being a part of that generation.

(54:35):
And then you also have to remember, like my brothers
were back in Molsment, Mikey Bradley, Jose Outadoor, Clint Dempsu
was in Seattle, Bees was in Houston. So like all
of my national team guys were back in most of
them like back in the States, and I was like,
I want to be I want to be a part
of that. Jermaine Jones was in It was in Colorado
at the time, and so I'm like, I want to
be I want to be part of that. Like there

(54:57):
was a there was also a selfish aspect and not
a I had one. But like I told you, when
I went over that, I remember thinking, they don't love
you like that, and they learned to love me certainly
every since then. But coming home, I was like, they
do love you like this. This is going to feel different,
and I want to, Like I think I felt like
I earned that, and I was like, I want to
I want to walk around the streets to Denver and

(55:18):
feel that love and be a part of that community.
And by the way, I was Denver was amazing, one
of the greatest places I've ever lived. But like I
wanted to feel that, I wanted to be a part
of that organization and I'm thankful they brought me there
and I helped set some of the building blocks and
foundation foundational pieces to continue to help that club grow.
And so yeah, I think there was a as as

(55:39):
you spent so much of your career trying to plow
forward and trailblaze. At the time, there was a fair
or not fair. There was like big players don't go
to Colorado, and I was kind of like, you know
they want me, all right, I want to go because
the big player are going to come to Colorado. And
there was a bullishness and we started the conversation in
that way, like there was a bullishness of like we're

(56:00):
gonna We're gonna make Colorado fun and cool and sexy,
and we're gonna do this thing. And we ended up
doing a pretty good job that season and got to
Western Conference Finals. But yeah, that a lot of that
played a role in wanting to come back to the States.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
And I have to ask this, and I know we
touched on it a little bit. Yeah, it's the hardest
thing in a career. When did you know it was over?

Speaker 2 (56:22):
I signed and I signed in twenty sixteen in Denver.
I had like a three and a half four year
contract and I'm like, that's gonna finish what I'm forty.
I'm like that feels good. You're like that's that boy,
Like that's great. I'm done, right, and so it was cool.
I felt like that was and I kind of kept
that close to my family. I didn't announce anything like
when I signed there, like I was gonna on my
last contract, But as I played those years out, I

(56:43):
got to the final year, I remember sitting down with
the media team and the president of our club and
just saying, like, look, I think it's a good time
for me to like announce this. Get it done and
dusted so that when we get to the back end
the season people aren't asking questions. Was put it to bed,
which I think was the right thing anyway, and certainly
high in sight, and I I played through everything. One

(57:04):
of the one of my one of my proudest achievements
is my ability to show up and be available, and
my my number of games played speaks to that. And I,
as you know, sometimes you go out there hobbled, hurting.
I hadn't played a game at one hundred percent in
twenty years, and I just remember in I think it

(57:28):
was late July or August of my final season, we
went to Red Bull Arena in New Jersey and it
was kind of a homecoming because I used to play
for that club and I was I was I was
put together with tape and ice, and I just I
could barely. I barely trained. An amazing goalkeeper coach in Colorado,

(57:48):
one of the best to ever do it, Chris Sharp,
and he's still there now, and he was just so
dedicated to my well being, my fitness, my career, and
I didn't train much that that season. I could train,
I could play barely, and then I could barely get
through the week and got to the Red Bull game
and I remember, you know, going back a year or two,
I had torn my my adductor off the bone in

(58:10):
the US national team game, which should have been career ending,
but I had some great surgeons and so I was back,
and so I was just hanging on. And I remember
taking a goal kick at Red Bull Arena in the
first half, and something didn't feel right. You know, your body,
you know it like you do. One has to tell you, like, like,
that doesn't feel right, and if I keep going, it's
gonna be bad. So now instead of playing with the game,
playing the tactics and clipping balls like listen, just give

(58:32):
it to my center back nice and easy. You deal
with it. And I'm telling him, like, hey, I ain't
got a whole lot, so you got to you gotta
take this off of me here. And then slowly but surely,
as that game went on, I'm like, I can't kick
on my right foot anymore, so I got to kick
my left foot, so I started kicking on my left foot. Everything.
It's just it looks o because I'm like, I can
kick on my left foot, but people like, he's not lefty,
and so now everything starting. Now my calf starts to

(58:54):
like go, and I'm thinking I'm literally gonna like I can't.
I can't get subbed off here like this is like
I'm just a bag of crumbs at this point. And
the team wins and it was our actually our manager,
we had a new manager. It was first game. Everyone
was jubilant and so excited in the dress room and
it's just a party, you know what it's like after
a win, particularly on the road. And I'm sitting in
my locker and I got my towel over my head

(59:15):
and I'm literally sobbing and I'm not trying to be
like the party pooper, but I'm sobbing. And my goalkeeper,
coach again, who I love dearly, sees it and it
comes over to me and he literally just says it's over,
isn't it. And I said, it's done. I said, I
got nothing now. By the way, we still had games
left in the season, but I was like, I'm done.
I have nothing left. And then subsequently the you know

(59:37):
O see, we didn't make the playoff season and ended
in September, and coach was good to me. I basically said, look,
I can't play a whole lot. And what I don't
want to do because you know, I'm forty years old
and our coach is forty five, so we're like peers.
And I said, what I don't want to do is
I'm not going to hamstring you. I'm not going to
put myself out there knowing that I've only got sixty
minutes and so you lose a sub on a goalkeeper,

(59:58):
I'm like, that's going to hurt you as a coach,
I said, So let me put me on a shelf
for a few games. I said, but what I would
like to do is coming the back end this season,
try and get myself fit enough to play our last
home game and certainly our last away game, and then
be done. And he was great to me, and he
did that, and I played my last home game. I
was able to bring my family out and had big
ceremony and then played my last game in La got

(01:00:18):
our butts kicked and walked off the field and that
was it. But yeah, you do know. I think most
people know, whether they admit it or not, because some
of the athletes they go out hobbling. But there's a
singular moment when you look back, you're like, that was
it and that was mine.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
It's so powerful. Thanks for sharing, And I'll say this
to you. You know how much I adore you. I'm
grateful for your commitment to the game because you opened
up doors for people like myself who we do not
look the same. And I don't think sometimes you realize
not only the magnitude you had on young boys, but
young girls, because you were our role model when we

(01:00:57):
didn't have it and we didn't have have the opportunity
to see people like us on TV. So you did
change a lot of things you may not realize. So
let me be the one to tell you you changed
a lot in my career. I picked my number because
of you, before our friendship, before I knew who you
were as a person, and I'm grateful you chose the sport.

(01:01:20):
I'm grateful the sport chose you, and I'm grateful for
a friendship and for you showing up today and being
so open and vulnerable and honest. Because what makes you
is you Off the field, you are special. You are
a light every room you walk in. You make everyone
better than you and that is a special gift. So

(01:01:41):
thank you for being here, Thanks for being on Wide Open.
You have a new podcast with land In Yeah, Oh
my gosh, I can't wait. You have two episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Are you out? Two episodes? Drop one today? Yeah. Unfiltered
Soccer with Landing down and my old partner in crime
on the national teams. I hope they give a listen.
And I know you have some followers as well. So
delighted to be on your show and on your podcast.
I loved watching you, love watching what you're doing off
the field, and glad that I can be a very
small part of your journey.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Thanks Tom. Wide Open with Ashlin Harris is an iHeart
women's sports production. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers
are Carmen Borca Correo, Emily Maronoff and Lucy Jones. Production

(01:02:32):
assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan
and Emily Rudder and I'm Your Host Ashlyn Harris