August 7, 2024 • 25 mins
The last couple of weeks have been a reminder of what we can have from Democratic campaigns: Hope. Excitement. Faith. Remember that 2008 feeling of a joy-based campaign? We can have that again.
Jennifer Taub returns to Woke AF Daily for a conversation recorded before Kamala Harris's choice of Tim Walz as her running mate; keep up with Danielle on social media @DeeTwoCents and @DanielleMoodie_ to get her reactions to that news.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OOKF Daily with Meet
Your Girl Daniel Moody. Pre Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
I'm taking a little bit of a respite as we
prepare to barrel into the Democratic Convention at the end
of this month, but as always, I'm leaving you with
some juicy episodes to dig into. Coming up. On today's episode,
(00:35):
I interview my friend and friend of the show, Jennifer Tobb,
who is, as you know, a law professor. She is
the host of Morning with Jen on the Mary Trump Network.
She is also the host of Legal Nerds on the
Mary Trump Network and is just a mind that I
love to tap into. And on today's episode, we discuss
(00:59):
the momentum that is the vice president's campaign. At the
moment of this recording, we do not yet know who
the vice presidential pick is, but we are talking about
all of the people powered calls and organizing that it's
happening at the grassroots level that are bringing in millions
and millions of dollars for the campaign. And Jen joined
(01:22):
two of the calls and gives us some insight into
what is being said, how people are feeling. But her
and I for the first time in a very long time,
talk about this little thing called hope, this little thing
called excitement and faith that we are feeling in this
very moment, and hopefully by the time that y'all are
listening to this, that feeling is continuing to roll in.
(01:47):
So coming up next my conversation with the incomparable Gentile Friends.
Whenever I get to chat with our friend friend of
the show, gent Tobb, I am always always so delighted
and grateful. You know her. She's a law professor. She's
the author of Big Dirty Money and Other People's Houses.
(02:10):
She is also the host of Morning with Jim on
Mary Trump's new network, Mary Trump Media. She's also a
nerd Avenger, which I am so happy to say that
I am also a nerd adventurer and the host of
Legal Nerds. I mean, you're giving me a run for
my money. I was supposed to be the one with
the most podcasts and shows and now you have seventeen.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I'm trying to cut back, but you know, it's
like potato.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Chips, just keep eating them, just keep getting shows. So, Jen,
since the last time we spoke, dare I say we
are in a better place as Democrats. Dare I say
that we may be feeling a bit more hopeful than
the place we were several weeks ago when we spoke.
(02:57):
Let's start off. You tell me how you were feeling
since the seismic shift in our election cycle, with Joe
Biden making the courageous and brave decision I think, to
step aside and his vice president Kamala Harris taking the reins.
It has been, you know, just a short period of time.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Days.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yes, at the time of this recording, it's been eight days.
How are you feeling.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I tend to traffic in metaphors when words don't suffice
to describe something as seismic as we're going through, and
so it reminds me of the Hollywood film classic The
Wizard of Oz when Dorothy exits the world, you know,
the black and white world in Kansas and steps into technicolor.
(03:48):
I mean, this is emotionally feels like an awakening. Of course,
you know, you were and I were going to support
whoever was at the top of the Democratic ticket, and
I was someone who would say, no, it's not lesser
of two evils. Joe Biden's had an incredible record, and
that's true, but I also know how people operate in
(04:09):
the world who aren't in the Amtrak don't live in
the Amtrak corridor. And now that I'm back in Michigan,
I get that people live their lives and not everybody
is fully focused on things. And the drama of Biden
stepping down and endorsing Kamala Harris the energy and expertise
that she brings into the conversation, and it's sort of
(04:34):
like the opposite of PTSD. It's PTJD post wait, PJTD
post joy, I do, can't do it whatever. It's the
reminder of joy we all feel like two thousand and eight,
and more so because it feels like maybe if we
can actually do this, we're still moving forward. And Donald
(04:57):
Trump was that last gasp, and not the authoritarian movement that's,
you know, the right wing, white supremacist authoritarian movement that
is kind of sweeping the globe, like maybe we are
going to be like France. Maybe we are going to
be like the UK that's rejecting Brexit now and so
on and is now moving left. But we don't know.
(05:19):
So most of me is filled with joy and hope
while also knowing that the stakes have not changed. And
knowing that we have a dangerous, lawless, rapist, fraudster who
has before instigated insurrection using the violence of mobs, does
(05:39):
not want to lose, So I don't know when we
get to exhale. So you know, it's like I feel
filled with joy and at the same time, my stomach
is still in knots.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, I think that I feel the same way, and
you put good imagery to it, because you know, I
tell my listeners all the time that I walk around
with a mustard seed of hope, right, and that what
has happened over this last several days is that that
seed has multiplied one hundred times over in a way
(06:15):
that I never thought would happen. I have been talking
on WOKF and other shows about just how devastated this
country will be if Donald Trump takes the reins again
and never lets go. And what we just saw recently
with his interview with what's her name ingram over at
(06:37):
Fox is even when spoonfed the right thing to say,
did you really mean Donald Trump to tell Christians that
if they vote in this election, they'll never have to
vote again? Is that I don't think that that's what
you meant, But that's what you know the lefties are saying.
And when spoon fed, Donald Trump spit it out and said, nah,
(06:59):
that's what I meant. They don't ever have to vote again.
Everything will be fixed and it'll be good and they
can just go back to their lives. And so it's
hard to find joy when there is so much on
the line. But somehow Vice President Harris's juxtaposition of the
healthscape that Project twenty twenty five and Donald Trump want
(07:21):
to create and her idea of freedom, her actual video
Beyonce soundtrack of Freedom attached to it just presents like
air at a time when I think that we were gasping.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I mean that is true. I mean I was thinking
of the visual, but you are also talking about the
physical right and it feels it feels not just like
being able to breathe, because I'm someone with asthma and
so I know what you mean, but it also feels
like the weight you know that metaphor the weight lifted
off of us. And the other thing I have to say,
(08:00):
no matter what happens, what I have seen in the
last eight days from Joeteika Edie, someone who was who
should be better known, who wasn't as well known in
the mainstream press, who is organized and started a group
called a Win with Black Women. How she just jumped
right in Sunday night organized a zoom call, which it
(08:24):
basically cut the path. You know, it just created this
momentum the same way that we I was talking about
today on Morning Jen. You know, it's this way that
I know everyone says, you know, social media and Twitter
isn't the real world. But in a way, this is
like the first kind of meme YouTube, Twitter kind of
fundraising campaign effort like shed you know, because people know
(08:47):
each other, because she probably knows Shannon Watts from her
organizing work with Mons Demand. A lot of trust has
been built up across communities over the COVID era. Over
people have learned to trust people they don't know, and
so pretty easy to reach out to Shannon or for
Shannon to reach out to her and say, like, how
do we do this? How do we build on what
you've done and acknowledge what you've done? And then you
(09:09):
see all these other groups doing this and it is
really important. And yes, you know, we're not solely the
identities the various intersexual identities that we each have, but
sometimes that's how we are cut up demographically for voting purposes,
and the reality is it is true when we look
(09:30):
at who actually if we want to elect Kamala Harris,
where we have to bring up the numbers voters have
to turn out, but we also have to convert people
from blindly voting for Republican Canada because they believe these
false stories. And you know, I think that organizing. You know,
I've been on a lot of the calls. I even
(09:51):
last night was on the white Dudes for Harris call
because my sort of way of moving about the world
is sort of like a white male more so than
a white and that's hard to It's not my gender identity,
but it's just I don't always fully identify with the
same struggles that white women go through. Like I'm not
one of the you know how people in the call
were saying, and if you listened in on it, like, hey,
(10:13):
we white women are sometimes you know, staying silent because
it's easier, and I'm like, well, that's not me, you
know what I mean? So if anything, I'm the sort
of like the interrupting male who doesn't let someone get
in a word in edgewise or or whatever it is.
So for me, it was nice to be on both
calls right because I think I have, you know, white
female privilege, which is very different than white male privilege.
(10:34):
And I also think that voting wise, I vote more
like women who are going to be more likely to
support Harris than I would like like a man. But
at the same time, the energy very different energy from
the calls. Loved them both for different reasons. Anyway, I
just I don't know how I got down this path,
but I feel like, well, I guess what I'm saying
(10:54):
is to hear white men, to see black men say
we're support Harris, to see men people identify as male
to say this woman we want as our candidate, and
to put their time and their money behind this. I mean,
that is something in my lifetime I'm not sure I
expected to see, and it feels so f and good.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I want to, you know, remind folks that joeteika Edia,
as you said, launched these efforts, these calls that have
been popping up every single day, multiple a day, happening
with different identity groups, starting with black women, moving to
black men that was led by Roland Martin and Bacari Sellers,
moving to white women answer the call with Shannon Watts,
(11:42):
and then down the line Southeast Asian women, Latino men,
white dudes. All of those things have been happening. The
queer call has happened, a disability call has happened. And
to your point, Jen, when you say, you know, we
are the intersection of so many different identities. But I
think that the power in identifying in a way that
(12:05):
polsters identifies what do the white women think, what do
the rural people think? Right? They pull out these characteristics
and then they wrap stereotypes around them, and I almost
think that these calls help us reclaim pieces of those
identities that have been flattened in our political discourse and
really put some weight and energy and death, which is
(12:28):
needed because voters are not one dimensional, right, So talk
to us Because I have interviewed Shannon has been on
this show throughout the years, and I've always enjoyed our
conversations and think very highly of her, and so I
knew that if there was going to be anyone that
was going to pick up the baton that Joeteika was holding,
(12:49):
it would be Shannon. Talk to us about some of
the things that were talked about that you learned on
that white women answer the call.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I think, I think that I maybe I'll talk
about three different things. I mean, the first thing was
immediately recognizing that Joe Teika did the first call, right,
because we've seen other things like the Me too movement.
Oh yes, I mean, you know, we've seen movements started
by black women be co opted by white women. Whether
(13:21):
intentionally or unintentionally doesn't even matter. We've seen so much
of that. So you know, it started out with the designation,
the recognition. And I think also what I noticed, I'm
just trying to remember how to choose my the things.
What I what I noticed is, gosh, it was so
(13:42):
great to hear just different people say it. And I'm
thinking it was Glennon Doyle who said it, but that hey,
are we doing this? Are we calling ourself white women?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Like?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
That's something. You know, there's a generation, a couple of
generations above us, maybe you know, the older baby Boomers
or the silent generation, where white people were trained to
pretend they were colored blind because to designate, first of all,
not even to see whiteness as a race right or
as a category, but also not to really talk about race,
(14:12):
because if you did, then you were trying to harken
back to hierarchies that you pretend don't exist anymore. Right,
So everyone on this call was so beyond that, like,
we get why we're together. The call was open to everybody,
but we I think that everyone who spoke spoke from
a place of saying I guess the subtext was, this
(14:36):
isn't the same feminism that used to be. Like it
really felt like, how do we you know? I remember
taking women's studies classes years ago and feeling like, wow,
the women's movement has always been fractured, you know whether
it was and I don't. There's so many waves of
women's movements. But thinking of like you know, the Betty
for Dan kind of saying when her whole book of like,
(14:58):
you know, women should be able work. It's like some
women have.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Been a right, have been forced to work.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
They're forced to work, and they're working in your home
and they don't get to take care of their own kids.
And what is women's work? Just like what is a
black dot? But this stuff is really super complicated. But
everyone I felt like on this call had been there,
done that, and we're so glad to be together to say, hey,
let's recognize that we're not all in the same place.
Let's recognize that, you know, white women have access to
(15:29):
other white women, to white men to actually have these
hard conversations. I love Glennon Doyle saying something which may
have upset some people, but it made me so flip
and happy. She said, you know what, guys, don't go
write some postcards. I know postcards supposedly change votes. Great,
but what she was saying is, instead of going out
and sending a postcard to some person in a different
swing state you don't know, do the harder work of
(15:52):
getting on the phone or being face to face to
one relative or one friend that you know is planning
to vote for Donald Trump. If you can change that
one person, you've changed the world. And there were at
one point because they were actually trying to zoom people
and not just putting them on the YouTube. And you know,
there were over one hundred and fifty thousand people on
that call. If all of us just converted one person
(16:15):
in a swing state, we've done. And so again, I
don't want to belittle people who write postcards because that's
how you want to do it, But do the hard
work of telling people why we need to support Kamala Harris,
and it felt like that. It also felt like and
there were some people in this I did not resonate
for me, but I think it resonated for others. And
(16:35):
it was Glennon whod said this sort of like that. Well,
maybe I don't know, it's not true. I think it
does resonate in some way that we are so acculturated
and we are raised. And I don't know if this
is true for people who aren't white, but for women
to not have anyone be unhappy with you and so
you don't being liked, being considered polite, not being confrontational
(17:00):
is the way that people get by. Again, you know, me,
that doesn't really fully fit me, but again I have
to recognize that's where most white women actually exist. Yeah, right,
in being a white Jewish woman, maybe that's different, right,
Maybe we're more in your face. I don't know, but
(17:20):
I heard it and I and it makes me understand
better how to deal with other white women. And maybe
I shouldn't come on so strong. Like when I deal
with men generally in my life, it's sometimes easier to
deal with them because you can just be in their
face and just say shit, Like maybe I feel that
way about about you two. But I have noticed to
cunder Green Vine like one of those old old women's
(17:42):
studies classes where no one wants to interrupt everyone ever
and saying I'm sorry. And the call felt a little
bit like that, But at the same time it felt
incredible because we raised on that call and afterward like
eight million dollars. Oh the other thing I got called out,
not directly, but indirectly. I was like, trying to donate
right link isn't working, and so we're all like texting
people or saying on you know, like I did a
(18:05):
mess at DM too while she's trying to run the
flip and call to Shannon saying, you know, we can't
donate because of course I don't want it to fail
because people.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Don't doing it right.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, but they're like, you know what, guys, everything doesn't
have to work out. Stop, you know, don't cry about
the fact you know there's no manager to call. Just
wait and donate, you know what I mean. And so
that felt okay, I don't know, I mean, I felt overall,
it felt good Again. Doing the hard work is harder
for me. It's easy for me to go on Twitter
and mouth off or go on my show and say something.
(18:36):
Having the conversation with a person I can think of
that I need to have this conversation with in a
swing state to get her to vote for Harris. That's,
you know.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Because that's putting something on the line. Do you know
what I'm saying? Like, that's having a stake, that is
a personal stake in this election and in these conversations,
And I think that too often. The reason why I
was like, yes, Joe Taika, Yes, like you're leading the
way and all of these people are recognizing and uplifting
(19:08):
you because I feel like lessons have been learned since
twenty twenty, lessons have been learned since twenty sixteen, and people,
particularly white women, who gained in numbers for Donald Trump
from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty, which was like, what
the fuck? How does that happen? And so I feel
like there was some deep personal responsibility, but also some
(19:32):
really I'm hopeful that this is the beginning of deeper excavation. Yes,
it felt that way of just how misogyny and patriarchy
are so deeply intertwined and in bed with white supremacy right,
and that these things are not siloed things, and so
it is about an ideology that has been fed since
(19:57):
birth on how to act, how to show up, how
to not take up too much space, how to you know,
align with your man, how.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
To trust men to make the decisions. Yeah, I mean what,
it's really hard, Like our minds are even co opted
in such a way that even lying lying is like
like in other words, women could can go into the
voting booth and vote for Kamala Harris and if their
husband asks, they can say, oh, yeah, I voted for Trump,
but they we wouldn't as a white woman, to do
(20:25):
that would be tantamount to setting fire to your house,
Like we are acculturated that we don't even You're supposed
to be a good girl, right and you can't taking
that step, you know, is hard. And I think I
think in my conversations and maybe other white women might
do this is say to someone I know, like I
know a lot of people who will not vote for Trump,
(20:46):
but they say, well, I'm not going to vote for
Biden or I'm not going to vote for Harris. And
what I want to say is to these folks, especially
to other white women, is would you do this for me?
Would you do this for my daughters? Would you do
this because I'm terrified about where things are going? Would
you trust me because I was right before. I told
you before that they were going to put these justices
(21:06):
on that overturn row versus weight, and you told me no,
you thought they would. Those justices were telling the truth,
and they did. Could you trust me this time around? Like,
how do we crey to people? How are you going
to feel the day after? If I'm right this time
and he starts literally rounding up millions of people and
putting them in camps, there's no going back there. So
take a chance for me, you know. And I'm trying
(21:30):
to figure out those conversations to have with people.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I mean, I think that you know, one, it's just
so important because we're taught from a very young age
to be polite, don't talk about politics at the dinner table,
don't talk about religion. And I'm just like, and these
are two fundamental things that make up who we are,
that make up our character, right, whether or not you
subscribe to a religion or not, whether or not you
(21:57):
have a political affiliation, but there is something and if
we learned how to have hard conversations with each other.
Then a Trump would have never existed in the first place,
because we would have been able to talk about this
in twenty fifteen. And so last thoughts to you, Jen,
which is you've said at the top, this feels like
two thousand and eight but different. Do you think that
(22:22):
in the next ninety some odd days that we have
the ability to do the impossible again? That this isn't
just a flash in the pan because we're just excited
in this week, but that something really does feel different.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yes, And there's two things that are critical. One is,
don't let anyone take away from us the they're weird
and creepy message that resonates so much for people you say, oh,
asoritarian or fascist. Most people I know, you know, not that.
People who listen not you, and I they get you know,
(23:02):
you say to somebody, it's really weird, it's really creepy
that they want to monitor people's periods, that you know
that every woman's eyes are going to pop open on that,
that they don't even think there should be an exception
for rap or incests because carrying your rapist baby to term,
that's a mere inconvenience. When you say this, it blows
(23:26):
people away, and so I know, more intellectual people are
worried that we shouldn't say words like creepy or weird,
that we should be able to give a twenty point
policy treatise. It's that's not how how it works. People
don't want to you know, the whole way I want
to have a beer with him, I don't want to
be in an elevator with him. Is also a way
(23:47):
to get someone not to fucking come for somebody, come on,
I know yep, okay one and two my older you know,
I don't name someone, but I have young people in
my wife and they you know they're age is because
they're young, But it's more like, why are these old
people who older than my grandparents running the country. And
so I don't really care who Harris chooses. We've talked
(24:09):
about that before. You know, I was leaning toward Tim Walls,
but a lot of people like Josh Shapiro because he
seems like a young go getter. I don't know about
the whole you know, stuff about Gaza and how that's
going to counterbalance with the young voters. But you've got
to be thinking about those flipping young voters because they're
(24:29):
excited right now, they're interested with what's going on with Harris.
There's a new Harris here instead of calling her a cop.
I think people are kind of understanding her record a
lot better because they not smearing her with some things.
And also, I mean, I could go on and on
of a why I love her and why she's so
much better than Trump, But we're talking about coalition. We
(24:51):
are a coalition, So I don't know. I think creepy
and weird will win the election, and I will go
to my grave on that point.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
All right, Well, Jen, we will have you back a
number of times as we count down the less than
one hundred days until the election, and you know, let's
continue the excitement and more importantly, let's continue the conversation.
Always appreciate you, my friend. That is it for me today,
(25:21):
dear friends, on Woke a f as always, Power to
the people and to all the people. Power, get woke
and stay woke as fuck.
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OOKF Daily with Meet
Your Girl Daniel Moody. Pre Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
I'm taking a little bit of a respite as we
prepare to barrel into the Democratic Convention at the end
of this month, but as always, I'm leaving you with
some juicy episodes to dig into. Coming up. On today's episode,
(00:35):
I interview my friend and friend of the show, Jennifer Tobb,
who is, as you know, a law professor. She is
the host of Morning with Jen on the Mary Trump Network.
She is also the host of Legal Nerds on the
Mary Trump Network and is just a mind that I
love to tap into. And on today's episode, we discuss
(00:59):
the momentum that is the vice president's campaign. At the
moment of this recording, we do not yet know who
the vice presidential pick is, but we are talking about
all of the people powered calls and organizing that it's
happening at the grassroots level that are bringing in millions
and millions of dollars for the campaign. And Jen joined
(01:22):
two of the calls and gives us some insight into
what is being said, how people are feeling. But her
and I for the first time in a very long time,
talk about this little thing called hope, this little thing
called excitement and faith that we are feeling in this
very moment, and hopefully by the time that y'all are
listening to this, that feeling is continuing to roll in.
(01:47):
So coming up next my conversation with the incomparable Gentile Friends.
Whenever I get to chat with our friend friend of
the show, gent Tobb, I am always always so delighted
and grateful. You know her. She's a law professor. She's
the author of Big Dirty Money and Other People's Houses.
(02:10):
She is also the host of Morning with Jim on
Mary Trump's new network, Mary Trump Media. She's also a
nerd Avenger, which I am so happy to say that
I am also a nerd adventurer and the host of
Legal Nerds. I mean, you're giving me a run for
my money. I was supposed to be the one with
the most podcasts and shows and now you have seventeen.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I'm trying to cut back, but you know, it's
like potato.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Chips, just keep eating them, just keep getting shows. So, Jen,
since the last time we spoke, dare I say we
are in a better place as Democrats. Dare I say
that we may be feeling a bit more hopeful than
the place we were several weeks ago when we spoke.
(02:57):
Let's start off. You tell me how you were feeling
since the seismic shift in our election cycle, with Joe
Biden making the courageous and brave decision I think, to
step aside and his vice president Kamala Harris taking the reins.
It has been, you know, just a short period of time.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Days.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yes, at the time of this recording, it's been eight days.
How are you feeling.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I tend to traffic in metaphors when words don't suffice
to describe something as seismic as we're going through, and
so it reminds me of the Hollywood film classic The
Wizard of Oz when Dorothy exits the world, you know,
the black and white world in Kansas and steps into technicolor.
(03:48):
I mean, this is emotionally feels like an awakening. Of course,
you know, you were and I were going to support
whoever was at the top of the Democratic ticket, and
I was someone who would say, no, it's not lesser
of two evils. Joe Biden's had an incredible record, and
that's true, but I also know how people operate in
(04:09):
the world who aren't in the Amtrak don't live in
the Amtrak corridor. And now that I'm back in Michigan,
I get that people live their lives and not everybody
is fully focused on things. And the drama of Biden
stepping down and endorsing Kamala Harris the energy and expertise
that she brings into the conversation, and it's sort of
(04:34):
like the opposite of PTSD. It's PTJD post wait, PJTD
post joy, I do, can't do it whatever. It's the
reminder of joy we all feel like two thousand and eight,
and more so because it feels like maybe if we
can actually do this, we're still moving forward. And Donald
(04:57):
Trump was that last gasp, and not the authoritarian movement that's,
you know, the right wing, white supremacist authoritarian movement that
is kind of sweeping the globe, like maybe we are
going to be like France. Maybe we are going to
be like the UK that's rejecting Brexit now and so
on and is now moving left. But we don't know.
(05:19):
So most of me is filled with joy and hope
while also knowing that the stakes have not changed. And
knowing that we have a dangerous, lawless, rapist, fraudster who
has before instigated insurrection using the violence of mobs, does
(05:39):
not want to lose, So I don't know when we
get to exhale. So you know, it's like I feel
filled with joy and at the same time, my stomach
is still in knots.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, I think that I feel the same way, and
you put good imagery to it, because you know, I
tell my listeners all the time that I walk around
with a mustard seed of hope, right, and that what
has happened over this last several days is that that
seed has multiplied one hundred times over in a way
(06:15):
that I never thought would happen. I have been talking
on WOKF and other shows about just how devastated this
country will be if Donald Trump takes the reins again
and never lets go. And what we just saw recently
with his interview with what's her name ingram over at
(06:37):
Fox is even when spoonfed the right thing to say,
did you really mean Donald Trump to tell Christians that
if they vote in this election, they'll never have to
vote again? Is that I don't think that that's what
you meant, But that's what you know the lefties are saying.
And when spoon fed, Donald Trump spit it out and said, nah,
(06:59):
that's what I meant. They don't ever have to vote again.
Everything will be fixed and it'll be good and they
can just go back to their lives. And so it's
hard to find joy when there is so much on
the line. But somehow Vice President Harris's juxtaposition of the
healthscape that Project twenty twenty five and Donald Trump want
(07:21):
to create and her idea of freedom, her actual video
Beyonce soundtrack of Freedom attached to it just presents like
air at a time when I think that we were gasping.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I mean that is true. I mean I was thinking
of the visual, but you are also talking about the
physical right and it feels it feels not just like
being able to breathe, because I'm someone with asthma and
so I know what you mean, but it also feels
like the weight you know that metaphor the weight lifted
off of us. And the other thing I have to say,
(08:00):
no matter what happens, what I have seen in the
last eight days from Joeteika Edie, someone who was who
should be better known, who wasn't as well known in
the mainstream press, who is organized and started a group
called a Win with Black Women. How she just jumped
right in Sunday night organized a zoom call, which it
(08:24):
basically cut the path. You know, it just created this
momentum the same way that we I was talking about
today on Morning Jen. You know, it's this way that
I know everyone says, you know, social media and Twitter
isn't the real world. But in a way, this is
like the first kind of meme YouTube, Twitter kind of
fundraising campaign effort like shed you know, because people know
(08:47):
each other, because she probably knows Shannon Watts from her
organizing work with Mons Demand. A lot of trust has
been built up across communities over the COVID era. Over
people have learned to trust people they don't know, and
so pretty easy to reach out to Shannon or for
Shannon to reach out to her and say, like, how
do we do this? How do we build on what
you've done and acknowledge what you've done? And then you
(09:09):
see all these other groups doing this and it is
really important. And yes, you know, we're not solely the
identities the various intersexual identities that we each have, but
sometimes that's how we are cut up demographically for voting purposes,
and the reality is it is true when we look
(09:30):
at who actually if we want to elect Kamala Harris,
where we have to bring up the numbers voters have
to turn out, but we also have to convert people
from blindly voting for Republican Canada because they believe these
false stories. And you know, I think that organizing. You know,
I've been on a lot of the calls. I even
(09:51):
last night was on the white Dudes for Harris call
because my sort of way of moving about the world
is sort of like a white male more so than
a white and that's hard to It's not my gender identity,
but it's just I don't always fully identify with the
same struggles that white women go through. Like I'm not
one of the you know how people in the call
were saying, and if you listened in on it, like, hey,
(10:13):
we white women are sometimes you know, staying silent because
it's easier, and I'm like, well, that's not me, you
know what I mean? So if anything, I'm the sort
of like the interrupting male who doesn't let someone get
in a word in edgewise or or whatever it is.
So for me, it was nice to be on both
calls right because I think I have, you know, white
female privilege, which is very different than white male privilege.
(10:34):
And I also think that voting wise, I vote more
like women who are going to be more likely to
support Harris than I would like like a man. But
at the same time, the energy very different energy from
the calls. Loved them both for different reasons. Anyway, I
just I don't know how I got down this path,
but I feel like, well, I guess what I'm saying
(10:54):
is to hear white men, to see black men say
we're support Harris, to see men people identify as male
to say this woman we want as our candidate, and
to put their time and their money behind this. I mean,
that is something in my lifetime I'm not sure I
expected to see, and it feels so f and good.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I want to, you know, remind folks that joeteika Edia,
as you said, launched these efforts, these calls that have
been popping up every single day, multiple a day, happening
with different identity groups, starting with black women, moving to
black men that was led by Roland Martin and Bacari Sellers,
moving to white women answer the call with Shannon Watts,
(11:42):
and then down the line Southeast Asian women, Latino men,
white dudes. All of those things have been happening. The
queer call has happened, a disability call has happened. And
to your point, Jen, when you say, you know, we
are the intersection of so many different identities. But I
think that the power in identifying in a way that
(12:05):
polsters identifies what do the white women think, what do
the rural people think? Right? They pull out these characteristics
and then they wrap stereotypes around them, and I almost
think that these calls help us reclaim pieces of those
identities that have been flattened in our political discourse and
really put some weight and energy and death, which is
(12:28):
needed because voters are not one dimensional, right, So talk
to us Because I have interviewed Shannon has been on
this show throughout the years, and I've always enjoyed our
conversations and think very highly of her, and so I
knew that if there was going to be anyone that
was going to pick up the baton that Joeteika was holding,
(12:49):
it would be Shannon. Talk to us about some of
the things that were talked about that you learned on
that white women answer the call.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I think, I think that I maybe I'll talk
about three different things. I mean, the first thing was
immediately recognizing that Joe Teika did the first call, right,
because we've seen other things like the Me too movement.
Oh yes, I mean, you know, we've seen movements started
by black women be co opted by white women. Whether
(13:21):
intentionally or unintentionally doesn't even matter. We've seen so much
of that. So you know, it started out with the designation,
the recognition. And I think also what I noticed, I'm
just trying to remember how to choose my the things.
What I what I noticed is, gosh, it was so
(13:42):
great to hear just different people say it. And I'm
thinking it was Glennon Doyle who said it, but that hey,
are we doing this? Are we calling ourself white women?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Like?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
That's something. You know, there's a generation, a couple of
generations above us, maybe you know, the older baby Boomers
or the silent generation, where white people were trained to
pretend they were colored blind because to designate, first of all,
not even to see whiteness as a race right or
as a category, but also not to really talk about race,
(14:12):
because if you did, then you were trying to harken
back to hierarchies that you pretend don't exist anymore. Right,
So everyone on this call was so beyond that, like,
we get why we're together. The call was open to everybody,
but we I think that everyone who spoke spoke from
a place of saying I guess the subtext was, this
(14:36):
isn't the same feminism that used to be. Like it
really felt like, how do we you know? I remember
taking women's studies classes years ago and feeling like, wow,
the women's movement has always been fractured, you know whether
it was and I don't. There's so many waves of
women's movements. But thinking of like you know, the Betty
for Dan kind of saying when her whole book of like,
(14:58):
you know, women should be able work. It's like some
women have.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Been a right, have been forced to work.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
They're forced to work, and they're working in your home
and they don't get to take care of their own kids.
And what is women's work? Just like what is a
black dot? But this stuff is really super complicated. But
everyone I felt like on this call had been there,
done that, and we're so glad to be together to say, hey,
let's recognize that we're not all in the same place.
Let's recognize that, you know, white women have access to
(15:29):
other white women, to white men to actually have these
hard conversations. I love Glennon Doyle saying something which may
have upset some people, but it made me so flip
and happy. She said, you know what, guys, don't go
write some postcards. I know postcards supposedly change votes. Great,
but what she was saying is, instead of going out
and sending a postcard to some person in a different
swing state you don't know, do the harder work of
(15:52):
getting on the phone or being face to face to
one relative or one friend that you know is planning
to vote for Donald Trump. If you can change that
one person, you've changed the world. And there were at
one point because they were actually trying to zoom people
and not just putting them on the YouTube. And you know,
there were over one hundred and fifty thousand people on
that call. If all of us just converted one person
(16:15):
in a swing state, we've done. And so again, I
don't want to belittle people who write postcards because that's
how you want to do it, But do the hard
work of telling people why we need to support Kamala Harris,
and it felt like that. It also felt like and
there were some people in this I did not resonate
for me, but I think it resonated for others. And
(16:35):
it was Glennon whod said this sort of like that. Well,
maybe I don't know, it's not true. I think it
does resonate in some way that we are so acculturated
and we are raised. And I don't know if this
is true for people who aren't white, but for women
to not have anyone be unhappy with you and so
you don't being liked, being considered polite, not being confrontational
(17:00):
is the way that people get by. Again, you know, me,
that doesn't really fully fit me, but again I have
to recognize that's where most white women actually exist. Yeah, right,
in being a white Jewish woman, maybe that's different, right,
Maybe we're more in your face. I don't know, but
(17:20):
I heard it and I and it makes me understand
better how to deal with other white women. And maybe
I shouldn't come on so strong. Like when I deal
with men generally in my life, it's sometimes easier to
deal with them because you can just be in their
face and just say shit, Like maybe I feel that
way about about you two. But I have noticed to
cunder Green Vine like one of those old old women's
(17:42):
studies classes where no one wants to interrupt everyone ever
and saying I'm sorry. And the call felt a little
bit like that, But at the same time it felt
incredible because we raised on that call and afterward like
eight million dollars. Oh the other thing I got called out,
not directly, but indirectly. I was like, trying to donate
right link isn't working, and so we're all like texting
people or saying on you know, like I did a
(18:05):
mess at DM too while she's trying to run the
flip and call to Shannon saying, you know, we can't
donate because of course I don't want it to fail
because people.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Don't doing it right.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, but they're like, you know what, guys, everything doesn't
have to work out. Stop, you know, don't cry about
the fact you know there's no manager to call. Just
wait and donate, you know what I mean. And so
that felt okay, I don't know, I mean, I felt overall,
it felt good Again. Doing the hard work is harder
for me. It's easy for me to go on Twitter
and mouth off or go on my show and say something.
(18:36):
Having the conversation with a person I can think of
that I need to have this conversation with in a
swing state to get her to vote for Harris. That's,
you know.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Because that's putting something on the line. Do you know
what I'm saying? Like, that's having a stake, that is
a personal stake in this election and in these conversations,
And I think that too often. The reason why I
was like, yes, Joe Taika, Yes, like you're leading the
way and all of these people are recognizing and uplifting
(19:08):
you because I feel like lessons have been learned since
twenty twenty, lessons have been learned since twenty sixteen, and people,
particularly white women, who gained in numbers for Donald Trump
from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty, which was like, what
the fuck? How does that happen? And so I feel
like there was some deep personal responsibility, but also some
(19:32):
really I'm hopeful that this is the beginning of deeper excavation. Yes,
it felt that way of just how misogyny and patriarchy
are so deeply intertwined and in bed with white supremacy right,
and that these things are not siloed things, and so
it is about an ideology that has been fed since
(19:57):
birth on how to act, how to show up, how
to not take up too much space, how to you know,
align with your man, how.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
To trust men to make the decisions. Yeah, I mean what,
it's really hard, Like our minds are even co opted
in such a way that even lying lying is like
like in other words, women could can go into the
voting booth and vote for Kamala Harris and if their
husband asks, they can say, oh, yeah, I voted for Trump,
but they we wouldn't as a white woman, to do
(20:25):
that would be tantamount to setting fire to your house,
Like we are acculturated that we don't even You're supposed
to be a good girl, right and you can't taking
that step, you know, is hard. And I think I
think in my conversations and maybe other white women might
do this is say to someone I know, like I
know a lot of people who will not vote for Trump,
(20:46):
but they say, well, I'm not going to vote for
Biden or I'm not going to vote for Harris. And
what I want to say is to these folks, especially
to other white women, is would you do this for me?
Would you do this for my daughters? Would you do
this because I'm terrified about where things are going? Would
you trust me because I was right before. I told
you before that they were going to put these justices
(21:06):
on that overturn row versus weight, and you told me no,
you thought they would. Those justices were telling the truth,
and they did. Could you trust me this time around? Like,
how do we crey to people? How are you going
to feel the day after? If I'm right this time
and he starts literally rounding up millions of people and
putting them in camps, there's no going back there. So
take a chance for me, you know. And I'm trying
(21:30):
to figure out those conversations to have with people.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I mean, I think that you know, one, it's just
so important because we're taught from a very young age
to be polite, don't talk about politics at the dinner table,
don't talk about religion. And I'm just like, and these
are two fundamental things that make up who we are,
that make up our character, right, whether or not you
subscribe to a religion or not, whether or not you
(21:57):
have a political affiliation, but there is something and if
we learned how to have hard conversations with each other.
Then a Trump would have never existed in the first place,
because we would have been able to talk about this
in twenty fifteen. And so last thoughts to you, Jen,
which is you've said at the top, this feels like
two thousand and eight but different. Do you think that
(22:22):
in the next ninety some odd days that we have
the ability to do the impossible again? That this isn't
just a flash in the pan because we're just excited
in this week, but that something really does feel different.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yes, And there's two things that are critical. One is,
don't let anyone take away from us the they're weird
and creepy message that resonates so much for people you say, oh,
asoritarian or fascist. Most people I know, you know, not that.
People who listen not you, and I they get you know,
(23:02):
you say to somebody, it's really weird, it's really creepy
that they want to monitor people's periods, that you know
that every woman's eyes are going to pop open on that,
that they don't even think there should be an exception
for rap or incests because carrying your rapist baby to term,
that's a mere inconvenience. When you say this, it blows
(23:26):
people away, and so I know, more intellectual people are
worried that we shouldn't say words like creepy or weird,
that we should be able to give a twenty point
policy treatise. It's that's not how how it works. People
don't want to you know, the whole way I want
to have a beer with him, I don't want to
be in an elevator with him. Is also a way
(23:47):
to get someone not to fucking come for somebody, come on,
I know yep, okay one and two my older you know,
I don't name someone, but I have young people in
my wife and they you know they're age is because
they're young, But it's more like, why are these old
people who older than my grandparents running the country. And
so I don't really care who Harris chooses. We've talked
(24:09):
about that before. You know, I was leaning toward Tim Walls,
but a lot of people like Josh Shapiro because he
seems like a young go getter. I don't know about
the whole you know, stuff about Gaza and how that's
going to counterbalance with the young voters. But you've got
to be thinking about those flipping young voters because they're
(24:29):
excited right now, they're interested with what's going on with Harris.
There's a new Harris here instead of calling her a cop.
I think people are kind of understanding her record a
lot better because they not smearing her with some things.
And also, I mean, I could go on and on
of a why I love her and why she's so
much better than Trump, But we're talking about coalition. We
(24:51):
are a coalition, So I don't know. I think creepy
and weird will win the election, and I will go
to my grave on that point.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
All right, Well, Jen, we will have you back a
number of times as we count down the less than
one hundred days until the election, and you know, let's
continue the excitement and more importantly, let's continue the conversation.
Always appreciate you, my friend. That is it for me today,
(25:21):
dear friends, on Woke a f as always, Power to
the people and to all the people. Power, get woke
and stay woke as fuck.
Host
Danielle Moodie
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