July 8, 2024 • 26 mins
Last week Danielle spoke with Skye Perryman, President and CEO of Democracy Forward, about this rogue Supreme Court, Representative Ocasio-Cortez's recent comments regarding judicial impeachment, and the importance of not giving in to cynicism.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Me your Girl Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks.
On today's show, I get into conversation with our friend
Sky Perryman, this CEO of Democracy Forward, and Sky and
I recorded this interview when the decision came down from
(00:35):
the Supreme Court. It is a dark conversation, but Sky
offers some light way forward and what I'm going to say,
as it is evident now where this country is headed.
This week's episodes, I'm sorry to say, have been utterly
(00:57):
and completely depressing and really hard to do, frankly, because
I don't understand how we are still in a place
of indecision, or still in a place of people saying
stupid fucking things like they're not going to vote or
there's no difference between these two parties. I don't know
(01:17):
what else I can possibly do and offer, but I
know that for as long as I have WOKF, I
am going to tell the truth until the truth becomes illegal.
And those are the things that I have been thinking about.
I have been thinking about what must it have been
like to live inside of Germany and Austria, as Hitler
(01:39):
was making his way across Europe. What must it have
been like to live inside of South Africa during apartheid?
What must it be like to be in Gaza, to
be occupied the way that the Palestinians are in Israel?
What must it be like to live inside of Iran
(02:02):
and Turkey and Hungary. So many places around the world
have dealt with or are dealing with authoritarianism and dictatorships.
It never occurred to me in my entire life, in
my entire life, that America could be one of them.
(02:23):
I have always believed in the possibility of this country.
I've always believed in its creed, even if it has
never lived up to it entirely. I've always believed what
Bill Clinton once said, that there is nothing that is
wrong with America that can't be fixed with what is
right by America. But we are in danger. The forces
(02:45):
of evil have conspired to drag this country back into
the darkest, darkest depths of itself, to a time when
white supremacy was the law of the land, where patriarchy
was the law of the land, where black people had
(03:06):
no rights, women had no voice and no protection, where
people who were queer had no safe space except in
dark basements and dark bars where workers had no protections
(03:27):
and no rights and were subjected to the will of
their employers, which were pretty much like they're enslavers. That
is the future, that is Project twenty twenty five. There
are many people who are still alive because Jim Crow
was not that long ago. That remember that time in America.
(03:53):
It is why black people have been and black women
in particular have been the foundation of the Democratic Party
because so many remember Ruby Bridges is only sixty five
years old, the first young black girl to integrate schools
(04:13):
following Brown versus the Board of Education. Folks, that wasn't
so long ago. And these white supremacist bastards have had
the desire to bring us back. And like you know
what has been said by Kevin Roberts, by Donald Trump,
(04:34):
by so many Republicans, they got more guns on their side.
Oh it'll remain bloodless so long as we are complicit
in our own subjugation. They are ready to rock, folks,
They are ready to turn this country into a nightmare.
They get off on fear and terror. So you want
(04:59):
to spend time fighting for your life after or fighting
for yourself right now with your vote those are the
decisions that we have in front of us, and coming
up next, Sky Perryman and I will get into deeper
conversation about what is at stake, folks. I am so
(05:23):
happy to welcome back to wok F Daily Sky Perryman,
who is the President and CEO of Democracy Forward, a
non partisan national legal organization that promotes democracy and process
through litigation, regulatory engagement, policy, education and research, and has
made many appearances on Sky. Today, we are recording at
(05:48):
a time when the Supreme Court gave what I am
effectively as many people are calling, one of the last
major blows to our democracy by granting a president absolute
immunity so long as they can prove that whatever acts
(06:10):
they were committing were done so officially. In the descent
to that decision, Sonya, so to Mayor Justice KBJ. Kagan,
they all basically said, in fear of our democracy, we dissent.
Give us your thoughts and reactions to this egregious move
(06:34):
by the Supreme Court to effectively give a president the
same rights and privileges as a king.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, it is egregious, and it's especially a twist of
harmful irony. Of course, that this is happening just a
few days before July fourth. But you know, in the
United States, we don't have kings and or queens, and
yet the Supreme Court is seeking to act that way
as itself, and this is a very harmful decision. It
(07:06):
was also harmful that the court delayed the decision for
so many months, essentially ensuring and delaying accountability in the
criminal trial. We are urging, of course, the trial court
to act swiftly and to move towards that trial. No
one is above the law. But this is a very
(07:26):
devastating day for our democracy. This occurs against the backdrop,
as you know, we've talked about it before on your show,
but in twenty twenty one, the United States was added
to the list of backsliding democracies after the rampant election
denialism and the attempted insurrection at the Capitol. And so
(07:48):
this is really a very unfortunate and harmful and very
highly concerning, dangerous step that could accelerate that backsliding. Further said,
we know that people in this country do have a voice,
and it's going to be very important, as we always
emphasize when we talk together, Danielle, that people and communities
(08:09):
understand what's going on, be vigilant and demand better from
their elected leaders and also from the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
You know, your organization its mission is to uphold democracy,
to push for policy that is about all of us
and that some of us. Where are you all in
your thinking about next steps? I mean, I like, I
feel like a lot of organizations are disaster planning in
(08:41):
a lot of ways. Right what are we going to
look like in twenty twenty five? What are we going
to look like five months from now? So what does
it look like to have this decision come forward and
then be thinking about where we go from here in
terms of your own organization and then as a society.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, let me say the first thing, and we say
this all the time, but we cannot give into cynicism.
And there is a lot of cynicism right now, and
including cynicism frankly from the Supreme Court term and we'll
talk about some other decisions that are also quite cinample
that are part of this far right effort to undermine
a functioning society, to undermine a democracy that works for
(09:19):
all of us. But we are not going to give
into cynicism. And so what that looks like is first
of all, understanding what's going on and demanding more. It
turns out that while our Constitution wasn't perfect and didn't
include everybody when it was drafted, there are tools in
that constitution that can in fact bring about a better society.
(09:40):
Our Congress, our elected branch of government, has a role
to play with respect to courts, when justices are acting
out ethically, when justices have conflicts of interest, and when
the courts are not functioning in the way they should
function in a democracy. Our Congress has power there or
state legislation at the state level, and elected representatives at
(10:02):
the state level have state based power and state based
disputes and vites, And so I think it's really important
that we look at all of the avenues and use
all the tools that our democracy can provide. It is
pastime for Congress and for the American people to hold
the Supreme Court accountable and to hold federal judges accountable
if they are not going to defend democracy and fully
(10:25):
execute their obligations under the Constitution. But also we can
be prepared, and we can be prepared in courts across
the country. So maybe we'll talk a little bit about
what else we saw the suppose sure, and how we
have been anticipating this and have tools for communities to
be able to use their voices at this time to
build for the democracy that we all know the American
(10:45):
people want, believe in and deserve.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So let's go over go you know for us where
where we are.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah. So, at the same time that the Court and
like headline breaking news, was providing the president more power
than even our founders contemplated, right making the President of
King It's Justice Sodomyora and others so verbalize in their descent,
the Supreme Court was also hypocritically taking powers away from
(11:15):
federal agencies, which are part of the executive branch that
do the work of the American people. When Congress passes laws.
Congress passes broad laws to help solve problems for folks
in the country, but it's really the executive branch, that
presidential branch and all the federal agencies that have to
execute the laws. But this term the Supreme Court dealt
(11:36):
a devastating blow, including today, by the way, and the
other decision it issued in Corner Posts versus Federal Reserve,
but then also in two other cases known as Low
or Bright and relentless, delta devastating blow to that system
of government, essentially consolidating power in itself. The Court as
opposed to the way for more than forty years, and
(11:57):
you can even go back for decades before that government
has functioned, where when Congress passes the law that protects people,
it's our federal agencies that interpret and implement that law
in accordance with their expertise setting policy and regulation. The
Court really delta devastating below to that system by overturning
something known as Chevron defference, which of course I think
(12:19):
your viewers are probably our listeners are probably hearing about.
And so this is a really hypocritical moment, right because
you have the Supreme Court deciding against the federal executive
with respect to routine policy making that it has been
doing for decades, but then consolidating just really unprecedented amounts
of almost keen like power with respect to this immunity decision,
(12:41):
which is incredibly unfortunate. So a democracy forward, we understood
that these cases were going to be coming down, and
so we've been really building a lot of resources where
we can track what far right organizations that others might
seek to do with these new developments in the law,
to enable people and communities to go into the courts
early on and to be able to explain why these
(13:03):
are horriful decisions that should not be expanded further, and
to be able to really push back.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So what does it look like to push back? Because
I have to tell you that today is one I
know that you said we don't have time for cynicism,
and you know, and in some ways I absolutely agree
with you, But that is in a lot of ways
where people are they are you know, for some have
been tracking this news and have been following the decisions
coming down from the Supreme Court. For others, you know,
(13:32):
I just alerted my own family to the decisions that
have been coming down, and they are beside themselves and
they're just like, what was like, what was the point
of us voting for Biden? What was the point of
us being told that we were going to hang on
to democracy in this next election when four years later,
this is where we are, We're worse off than we
(13:54):
were in twenty twenty. So what does democracy moving forward
actually look like?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well, first of all, we're not going to let extremists
have the last word, and so what that pushback looks
like is it first of all, looks like doing exactly
what you did, calling your friends and family and talking
about what's going on, and making sure people are getting
educated and are able to use their voices in the
way they can. That is through voting, but it is
also through being members of communities, talking and speaking out.
(14:25):
We know that people really have a voice in this moment.
I will also say that our elected representatives have work
to do. Congress has power to fix the court to
ensure that justices are operating ethically. It is absolutely absurd
that we have, years after we are dealing with rampant
election denialism denihalism, by the way, that started in twenty
(14:48):
sixteen when former President Trump did not win the popular
vote and sought to dispute facts and evidence. But we
still see this movement now throughout the country, not associated
with any particular candidate, and we see this movement throughout
the country. It's really important we have Supreme Court justices
that have been seen with insurrection as symbols flying outside
(15:08):
of our homes and so here are you know, our
constitution provides the tools. It is time for Congress to
take a much closer look than it has been taking
at the Court, and to use its power to demand
that the Court be subject to binding ethical codes, to
think about court reforms that are a number of them
(15:29):
that have been proposed by people like Jamie Raskin, by
others in the Senate as well, and the House, the
Incenate as well, And so I think that there are
these tools. The other thing I would say is that
there has been a lot of progress made in the
past few years. We have seen the economy start doing better.
We've seen people and communities be able to thrive in
(15:52):
certain ways. But we have also seen, as a result
of I think the rising tide of a more inclusive,
more vibrant of allocracy for all people, this extreme pushback
which you see with things like Dobbs and the overturning
of Rogie Wade. And we'll get to the Court's abortions
decisions this time and other things. And so it's important
to know who's behind these This is not a majority
(16:14):
of Americans. This is a well funded, highly coordinated extremist
movement that is seeking to be louder and will power
over everyone. And part of it is making up our
minds that we're not going to let them have the
last word. We're going to do the work. We're going
to be able to look this destruction in the eye
and not blink and speak out. And I know that
people are very tired in this moment, but think about
(16:35):
what people that came before us did in times of
pail and we would not be where we are today
without the persistence in the fight for a true democracy.
And so that's what we're really trying to focus our
work on and using the tools under these new legal
frameworks in order to push back.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I want to read on this post by Alexandria Cassier
Quortez with regard to Congress's role, as you're saying, yes,
she tweeted this, the Supreme Court has become consumed by
a corruption crisis beyond its control. Today's ruling represents an
assault on American democracy. It is up to Congress to
(17:13):
defend our nation from this authoritarian capture. I intend on
filing articles of impeachment upon our return. What is your
response to that?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I mean, I think it is important that members of Congress,
and we've seen her, we've seen Jamie Raskin, we've seen
senators as well, really start reminding the American people of
the power and the obligation that Congress has with respect
to court reforms, with respect to transparency, with respect to
ethics reform, and a variety of other reform measures that
(17:45):
are out there. Several years ago when the far right
really started, it didn't start, but really several years ago
when we started seeing the first evidence of really how
far the spar right capture had gone with respect to
some of our courts. I think the American people didn't
really know how serious it was, or it was hard
to understand it. We have now seen YEP with dog
(18:07):
YEP with decisions last summer, with decisions that are undermining
the environment. This term, we're having a decision that's going
to make it easier for people to obtain automatic weapons.
I mean, these are distructive decisions for our people and communities.
And so I think the American public is there. If
you look at the pulling people in our country right
now are very dissatisfied with the extremism of the US
(18:28):
Supreme Court and of the movements behind it, and so
it is important that everyone do, including Congress, the part
of this time.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I want to switch gears for a moment to the
abortion decisions that we just had as well. But the
thing that I just thought of when you reminded us
of the easier to obtain automatic weapons and the ability
to use magazines. I just can't help but think of
the fact that this Supreme Court has really set up
(18:58):
the ability for milicious like to embolden militias, for Donald
Trump to tell folks to stand back and stand by
and to be immune from anything that they do. And
that is just like again, the seriousness and the connecting
of the dots of where we are and what was
just decided mif of pristone and Mtala, two major decisions
(19:21):
that came down. Talk to us about where we are
on that, because the Atala decision in a lot of
ways was still, according to Justice Katanji Brown Jackson, a
dawdling continuing dawdling of the Supreme Court in the permission
structure that is necessary to save people's lives in Idaho.
So tell us about where we are there.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yes, I mean, we're heavily involved in both of those cases.
In the Intala case, which for your listeners, that's the
emergency abortion case where there are people that are experiencing
dire complications in pregnancy where the medical care that is
required is a pregnancy termination or an abortion. Under our
federal law, when you present to an emergency room in
(20:02):
this country, you can't be turned away if you're in
that dire condition. The emergency rooms that take federal funds,
which is the vast majority of them, have to provide
emergency care. Unfortunately, after Dobbs, far right attorney generals working
with these far right organizations that are responsible in many
ways their funding structures, are responsible for the courts that
(20:22):
we have today. They are opposing basic federal law and
saying that state abortion bands can override federal emergency room protections,
which is not what our constitution says. Again, our Constitution
does have some tools there, and it's very clear in
the Constitution that federal law takes precedence over state law
on the two conflict. This got up to the Supreme Court,
(20:45):
and the Supreme Court essentially has delayed its substantive decision
in the matter. It did issue a ruling that will
enable women in Idaho who have been deprived of emergency
care for months of emergency here because the Supreme Court
itself stayed a district court order that was seeking to
(21:05):
protect these women. So again this is a problem of
the Court's own making. The Court is returning this issue
down to the lower courts, and as a result, in Idaho,
women right now will be able to get some of
that emergency care. But the Court declined to rule definitively
as it should have and as our constitution requires. The
(21:26):
Idaho abortion band conflicted with this federal protection. What that
means is for women in Texas, for women in Florida,
for women across the country in these states that a
band abortion where far right attorney's generals and special interest
organizations are seeking to deprive people of an emergency medical care,
They're still going to be deprived of that care apbsent
additional intervention. The cynical part, because we started talking about Seneca,
(21:49):
We're not going to give rise to it. But I
am going to point this out. The cynical part of
this is that you know, we do know this is
an important year in many ways, and we know how
voters are respond to these attacks on our freedoms and
particularly reproductive freedom, and particularly in these situations where these
are moms and women who this is really die or
(22:10):
for their health. And so the cynical part of this
is that the Court, of course has sort of avoided
this issue while all eyes are on it in this gear.
And we already know that there are cases tied up,
for instance, out of Texas and out of the Fifth
Circuit where this could come back up to the Court,
maybe in a quieter year, one where there's not a
major national election, and the Court could could be poised
(22:31):
to deprive people to go further than Daubs, even further
than our constitution permits, and to deprive people of this care.
So this is why I say it's really important that
we all be following this or am I going to
give into the cynicism. We know that we're the majority.
We know the vast majority of people in this country
believe in the promise and potential of democracy, and it
is time to start demanding that of everybody, whether they're
(22:53):
in the judiciary, whether they're elected officials, you know, whoever
they are. But at the same time, we need to
be wise to what's happening here and if a pristone
case where we're really where we have been, you know,
involved there, the Court rejected said that the case ever
belonged in the court, that the special interest organization that
brought the case was not harmed, did not have standing.
(23:14):
But as you see, the chaos is the point of
this because it's been almost you know, it's been over
year that there have been you know, emergency had you know,
emergency every day where people are thinking they're going to
be deprived of or that if a pristone is going
to be restricted. And in that case also we have
far right state attorneys general who have sought to intervene
(23:34):
in the case in a lower course. We don't believe
they should be able to. But again that's another case
that could come back up maybe when the court thinks
that folks aren't paying as close as attention. So so
I think these are really areas to watch. They are
areas where with all of these cases, including the immunity case.
And I say this often on shows right now, but
(23:54):
when extremists, you know, tell you what they're going to do,
it's time to believe them, and it's time to believe
them and get real serious about what we're going to
do in this time, to fight for the democracy that
we know that everyone that the vast majority of people
in this country want and deserve.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
We will leave it there for today. But I know
that we will be calling on you again in the
weeks and months to come, because I feel like Americas
is reaching its final precipice as it pertains to democracy.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Well, this is what I'll say, maybe to end on this.
These are unprecedented of very concerning times, and we're not
going to make light of that. You and I never
make light of that. But we know that this country
has fought dehumanization, extremism, white supremacy, and it has always
been the people that have ordinary people. You don't have
(24:48):
to be a lawyer, you don't need to be a politician,
you don't need to be a radio show host. It
has been ordinary people in their ordinary lives say that
we are better than this. The future that we deserve
is better than this. The present that we live in
needs to be better than this, and we are better
than this, and we will do the work of democracy.
And that has been the thing, not our institutions. It
(25:10):
has been the people that have been the shining light
in American society, pushing for the country that we know
that we can be and what we needed this time.
And so I'll just lead that with your listeners, because
I think that you know there isn't an institution that's
going to swoop in and save us, but that we
do have, we the people, and I will stand by
(25:31):
the fact that our constitution, as imperfect as the circumstances were,
as imperfect as it can be. As Barbara Jordan, late
Congress from Barbara Jordan used to say, over time, through progress,
she became included. We became included in we the people.
And it is up to we the people in this moment.
So happy to always join you and thinking for what
(25:53):
you are doing to make sure that people are informed.
And I do think we cannot give into the cynicism,
but it is we do. Got to go to work
because there's a lot of work to do in this
moment to make sure democracy is not a lofty ideal
but actually something that can we get to live in
in this country.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Amen, Thank you, Sky, appreciate you always making the time
for woke.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Thank you, thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
That is it for me today. Hear friends on wokef
as always power to the people and to all the people. Power,
get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Me your Girl Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks.
On today's show, I get into conversation with our friend
Sky Perryman, this CEO of Democracy Forward, and Sky and
I recorded this interview when the decision came down from
(00:35):
the Supreme Court. It is a dark conversation, but Sky
offers some light way forward and what I'm going to say,
as it is evident now where this country is headed.
This week's episodes, I'm sorry to say, have been utterly
(00:57):
and completely depressing and really hard to do, frankly, because
I don't understand how we are still in a place
of indecision, or still in a place of people saying
stupid fucking things like they're not going to vote or
there's no difference between these two parties. I don't know
(01:17):
what else I can possibly do and offer, but I
know that for as long as I have WOKF, I
am going to tell the truth until the truth becomes illegal.
And those are the things that I have been thinking about.
I have been thinking about what must it have been
like to live inside of Germany and Austria, as Hitler
(01:39):
was making his way across Europe. What must it have
been like to live inside of South Africa during apartheid?
What must it be like to be in Gaza, to
be occupied the way that the Palestinians are in Israel?
What must it be like to live inside of Iran
(02:02):
and Turkey and Hungary. So many places around the world
have dealt with or are dealing with authoritarianism and dictatorships.
It never occurred to me in my entire life, in
my entire life, that America could be one of them.
(02:23):
I have always believed in the possibility of this country.
I've always believed in its creed, even if it has
never lived up to it entirely. I've always believed what
Bill Clinton once said, that there is nothing that is
wrong with America that can't be fixed with what is
right by America. But we are in danger. The forces
(02:45):
of evil have conspired to drag this country back into
the darkest, darkest depths of itself, to a time when
white supremacy was the law of the land, where patriarchy
was the law of the land, where black people had
(03:06):
no rights, women had no voice and no protection, where
people who were queer had no safe space except in
dark basements and dark bars where workers had no protections
(03:27):
and no rights and were subjected to the will of
their employers, which were pretty much like they're enslavers. That
is the future, that is Project twenty twenty five. There
are many people who are still alive because Jim Crow
was not that long ago. That remember that time in America.
(03:53):
It is why black people have been and black women
in particular have been the foundation of the Democratic Party
because so many remember Ruby Bridges is only sixty five
years old, the first young black girl to integrate schools
(04:13):
following Brown versus the Board of Education. Folks, that wasn't
so long ago. And these white supremacist bastards have had
the desire to bring us back. And like you know
what has been said by Kevin Roberts, by Donald Trump,
(04:34):
by so many Republicans, they got more guns on their side.
Oh it'll remain bloodless so long as we are complicit
in our own subjugation. They are ready to rock, folks,
They are ready to turn this country into a nightmare.
They get off on fear and terror. So you want
(04:59):
to spend time fighting for your life after or fighting
for yourself right now with your vote those are the
decisions that we have in front of us, and coming
up next, Sky Perryman and I will get into deeper
conversation about what is at stake, folks. I am so
(05:23):
happy to welcome back to wok F Daily Sky Perryman,
who is the President and CEO of Democracy Forward, a
non partisan national legal organization that promotes democracy and process
through litigation, regulatory engagement, policy, education and research, and has
made many appearances on Sky. Today, we are recording at
(05:48):
a time when the Supreme Court gave what I am
effectively as many people are calling, one of the last
major blows to our democracy by granting a president absolute
immunity so long as they can prove that whatever acts
(06:10):
they were committing were done so officially. In the descent
to that decision, Sonya, so to Mayor Justice KBJ. Kagan,
they all basically said, in fear of our democracy, we dissent.
Give us your thoughts and reactions to this egregious move
(06:34):
by the Supreme Court to effectively give a president the
same rights and privileges as a king.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, it is egregious, and it's especially a twist of
harmful irony. Of course, that this is happening just a
few days before July fourth. But you know, in the
United States, we don't have kings and or queens, and
yet the Supreme Court is seeking to act that way
as itself, and this is a very harmful decision. It
(07:06):
was also harmful that the court delayed the decision for
so many months, essentially ensuring and delaying accountability in the
criminal trial. We are urging, of course, the trial court
to act swiftly and to move towards that trial. No
one is above the law. But this is a very
(07:26):
devastating day for our democracy. This occurs against the backdrop,
as you know, we've talked about it before on your show,
but in twenty twenty one, the United States was added
to the list of backsliding democracies after the rampant election
denialism and the attempted insurrection at the Capitol. And so
(07:48):
this is really a very unfortunate and harmful and very
highly concerning, dangerous step that could accelerate that backsliding. Further said,
we know that people in this country do have a voice,
and it's going to be very important, as we always
emphasize when we talk together, Danielle, that people and communities
(08:09):
understand what's going on, be vigilant and demand better from
their elected leaders and also from the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
You know, your organization its mission is to uphold democracy,
to push for policy that is about all of us
and that some of us. Where are you all in
your thinking about next steps? I mean, I like, I
feel like a lot of organizations are disaster planning in
(08:41):
a lot of ways. Right what are we going to
look like in twenty twenty five? What are we going
to look like five months from now? So what does
it look like to have this decision come forward and
then be thinking about where we go from here in
terms of your own organization and then as a society.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, let me say the first thing, and we say
this all the time, but we cannot give into cynicism.
And there is a lot of cynicism right now, and
including cynicism frankly from the Supreme Court term and we'll
talk about some other decisions that are also quite cinample
that are part of this far right effort to undermine
a functioning society, to undermine a democracy that works for
(09:19):
all of us. But we are not going to give
into cynicism. And so what that looks like is first
of all, understanding what's going on and demanding more. It
turns out that while our Constitution wasn't perfect and didn't
include everybody when it was drafted, there are tools in
that constitution that can in fact bring about a better society.
(09:40):
Our Congress, our elected branch of government, has a role
to play with respect to courts, when justices are acting
out ethically, when justices have conflicts of interest, and when
the courts are not functioning in the way they should
function in a democracy. Our Congress has power there or
state legislation at the state level, and elected representatives at
(10:02):
the state level have state based power and state based
disputes and vites, And so I think it's really important
that we look at all of the avenues and use
all the tools that our democracy can provide. It is
pastime for Congress and for the American people to hold
the Supreme Court accountable and to hold federal judges accountable
if they are not going to defend democracy and fully
(10:25):
execute their obligations under the Constitution. But also we can
be prepared, and we can be prepared in courts across
the country. So maybe we'll talk a little bit about
what else we saw the suppose sure, and how we
have been anticipating this and have tools for communities to
be able to use their voices at this time to
build for the democracy that we all know the American
(10:45):
people want, believe in and deserve.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So let's go over go you know for us where
where we are.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah. So, at the same time that the Court and
like headline breaking news, was providing the president more power
than even our founders contemplated, right making the President of
King It's Justice Sodomyora and others so verbalize in their descent,
the Supreme Court was also hypocritically taking powers away from
(11:15):
federal agencies, which are part of the executive branch that
do the work of the American people. When Congress passes laws.
Congress passes broad laws to help solve problems for folks
in the country, but it's really the executive branch, that
presidential branch and all the federal agencies that have to
execute the laws. But this term the Supreme Court dealt
(11:36):
a devastating blow, including today, by the way, and the
other decision it issued in Corner Posts versus Federal Reserve,
but then also in two other cases known as Low
or Bright and relentless, delta devastating blow to that system
of government, essentially consolidating power in itself. The Court as
opposed to the way for more than forty years, and
(11:57):
you can even go back for decades before that government
has functioned, where when Congress passes the law that protects people,
it's our federal agencies that interpret and implement that law
in accordance with their expertise setting policy and regulation. The
Court really delta devastating below to that system by overturning
something known as Chevron defference, which of course I think
(12:19):
your viewers are probably our listeners are probably hearing about.
And so this is a really hypocritical moment, right because
you have the Supreme Court deciding against the federal executive
with respect to routine policy making that it has been
doing for decades, but then consolidating just really unprecedented amounts
of almost keen like power with respect to this immunity decision,
(12:41):
which is incredibly unfortunate. So a democracy forward, we understood
that these cases were going to be coming down, and
so we've been really building a lot of resources where
we can track what far right organizations that others might
seek to do with these new developments in the law,
to enable people and communities to go into the courts
early on and to be able to explain why these
(13:03):
are horriful decisions that should not be expanded further, and
to be able to really push back.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So what does it look like to push back? Because
I have to tell you that today is one I
know that you said we don't have time for cynicism,
and you know, and in some ways I absolutely agree
with you, But that is in a lot of ways
where people are they are you know, for some have
been tracking this news and have been following the decisions
coming down from the Supreme Court. For others, you know,
(13:32):
I just alerted my own family to the decisions that
have been coming down, and they are beside themselves and
they're just like, what was like, what was the point
of us voting for Biden? What was the point of
us being told that we were going to hang on
to democracy in this next election when four years later,
this is where we are, We're worse off than we
(13:54):
were in twenty twenty. So what does democracy moving forward
actually look like?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well, first of all, we're not going to let extremists
have the last word, and so what that pushback looks
like is it first of all, looks like doing exactly
what you did, calling your friends and family and talking
about what's going on, and making sure people are getting
educated and are able to use their voices in the
way they can. That is through voting, but it is
also through being members of communities, talking and speaking out.
(14:25):
We know that people really have a voice in this moment.
I will also say that our elected representatives have work
to do. Congress has power to fix the court to
ensure that justices are operating ethically. It is absolutely absurd
that we have, years after we are dealing with rampant
election denialism denihalism, by the way, that started in twenty
(14:48):
sixteen when former President Trump did not win the popular
vote and sought to dispute facts and evidence. But we
still see this movement now throughout the country, not associated
with any particular candidate, and we see this movement throughout
the country. It's really important we have Supreme Court justices
that have been seen with insurrection as symbols flying outside
(15:08):
of our homes and so here are you know, our
constitution provides the tools. It is time for Congress to
take a much closer look than it has been taking
at the Court, and to use its power to demand
that the Court be subject to binding ethical codes, to
think about court reforms that are a number of them
(15:29):
that have been proposed by people like Jamie Raskin, by
others in the Senate as well, and the House, the
Incenate as well, And so I think that there are
these tools. The other thing I would say is that
there has been a lot of progress made in the
past few years. We have seen the economy start doing better.
We've seen people and communities be able to thrive in
(15:52):
certain ways. But we have also seen, as a result
of I think the rising tide of a more inclusive,
more vibrant of allocracy for all people, this extreme pushback
which you see with things like Dobbs and the overturning
of Rogie Wade. And we'll get to the Court's abortions
decisions this time and other things. And so it's important
to know who's behind these This is not a majority
(16:14):
of Americans. This is a well funded, highly coordinated extremist
movement that is seeking to be louder and will power
over everyone. And part of it is making up our
minds that we're not going to let them have the
last word. We're going to do the work. We're going
to be able to look this destruction in the eye
and not blink and speak out. And I know that
people are very tired in this moment, but think about
(16:35):
what people that came before us did in times of
pail and we would not be where we are today
without the persistence in the fight for a true democracy.
And so that's what we're really trying to focus our
work on and using the tools under these new legal
frameworks in order to push back.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I want to read on this post by Alexandria Cassier
Quortez with regard to Congress's role, as you're saying, yes,
she tweeted this, the Supreme Court has become consumed by
a corruption crisis beyond its control. Today's ruling represents an
assault on American democracy. It is up to Congress to
(17:13):
defend our nation from this authoritarian capture. I intend on
filing articles of impeachment upon our return. What is your
response to that?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I mean, I think it is important that members of Congress,
and we've seen her, we've seen Jamie Raskin, we've seen
senators as well, really start reminding the American people of
the power and the obligation that Congress has with respect
to court reforms, with respect to transparency, with respect to
ethics reform, and a variety of other reform measures that
(17:45):
are out there. Several years ago when the far right
really started, it didn't start, but really several years ago
when we started seeing the first evidence of really how
far the spar right capture had gone with respect to
some of our courts. I think the American people didn't
really know how serious it was, or it was hard
to understand it. We have now seen YEP with dog
(18:07):
YEP with decisions last summer, with decisions that are undermining
the environment. This term, we're having a decision that's going
to make it easier for people to obtain automatic weapons.
I mean, these are distructive decisions for our people and communities.
And so I think the American public is there. If
you look at the pulling people in our country right
now are very dissatisfied with the extremism of the US
(18:28):
Supreme Court and of the movements behind it, and so
it is important that everyone do, including Congress, the part
of this time.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I want to switch gears for a moment to the
abortion decisions that we just had as well. But the
thing that I just thought of when you reminded us
of the easier to obtain automatic weapons and the ability
to use magazines. I just can't help but think of
the fact that this Supreme Court has really set up
(18:58):
the ability for milicious like to embolden militias, for Donald
Trump to tell folks to stand back and stand by
and to be immune from anything that they do. And
that is just like again, the seriousness and the connecting
of the dots of where we are and what was
just decided mif of pristone and Mtala, two major decisions
(19:21):
that came down. Talk to us about where we are
on that, because the Atala decision in a lot of
ways was still, according to Justice Katanji Brown Jackson, a
dawdling continuing dawdling of the Supreme Court in the permission
structure that is necessary to save people's lives in Idaho.
So tell us about where we are there.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yes, I mean, we're heavily involved in both of those cases.
In the Intala case, which for your listeners, that's the
emergency abortion case where there are people that are experiencing
dire complications in pregnancy where the medical care that is
required is a pregnancy termination or an abortion. Under our
federal law, when you present to an emergency room in
(20:02):
this country, you can't be turned away if you're in
that dire condition. The emergency rooms that take federal funds,
which is the vast majority of them, have to provide
emergency care. Unfortunately, after Dobbs, far right attorney generals working
with these far right organizations that are responsible in many
ways their funding structures, are responsible for the courts that
(20:22):
we have today. They are opposing basic federal law and
saying that state abortion bands can override federal emergency room protections,
which is not what our constitution says. Again, our Constitution
does have some tools there, and it's very clear in
the Constitution that federal law takes precedence over state law
on the two conflict. This got up to the Supreme Court,
(20:45):
and the Supreme Court essentially has delayed its substantive decision
in the matter. It did issue a ruling that will
enable women in Idaho who have been deprived of emergency
care for months of emergency here because the Supreme Court
itself stayed a district court order that was seeking to
(21:05):
protect these women. So again this is a problem of
the Court's own making. The Court is returning this issue
down to the lower courts, and as a result, in Idaho,
women right now will be able to get some of
that emergency care. But the Court declined to rule definitively
as it should have and as our constitution requires. The
(21:26):
Idaho abortion band conflicted with this federal protection. What that
means is for women in Texas, for women in Florida,
for women across the country in these states that a
band abortion where far right attorney's generals and special interest
organizations are seeking to deprive people of an emergency medical care,
They're still going to be deprived of that care apbsent
additional intervention. The cynical part, because we started talking about Seneca,
(21:49):
We're not going to give rise to it. But I
am going to point this out. The cynical part of
this is that you know, we do know this is
an important year in many ways, and we know how
voters are respond to these attacks on our freedoms and
particularly reproductive freedom, and particularly in these situations where these
are moms and women who this is really die or
(22:10):
for their health. And so the cynical part of this
is that the Court, of course has sort of avoided
this issue while all eyes are on it in this gear.
And we already know that there are cases tied up,
for instance, out of Texas and out of the Fifth
Circuit where this could come back up to the Court,
maybe in a quieter year, one where there's not a
major national election, and the Court could could be poised
(22:31):
to deprive people to go further than Daubs, even further
than our constitution permits, and to deprive people of this care.
So this is why I say it's really important that
we all be following this or am I going to
give into the cynicism. We know that we're the majority.
We know the vast majority of people in this country
believe in the promise and potential of democracy, and it
is time to start demanding that of everybody, whether they're
(22:53):
in the judiciary, whether they're elected officials, you know, whoever
they are. But at the same time, we need to
be wise to what's happening here and if a pristone
case where we're really where we have been, you know,
involved there, the Court rejected said that the case ever
belonged in the court, that the special interest organization that
brought the case was not harmed, did not have standing.
(23:14):
But as you see, the chaos is the point of
this because it's been almost you know, it's been over
year that there have been you know, emergency had you know,
emergency every day where people are thinking they're going to
be deprived of or that if a pristone is going
to be restricted. And in that case also we have
far right state attorneys general who have sought to intervene
(23:34):
in the case in a lower course. We don't believe
they should be able to. But again that's another case
that could come back up maybe when the court thinks
that folks aren't paying as close as attention. So so
I think these are really areas to watch. They are
areas where with all of these cases, including the immunity case.
And I say this often on shows right now, but
(23:54):
when extremists, you know, tell you what they're going to do,
it's time to believe them, and it's time to believe
them and get real serious about what we're going to
do in this time, to fight for the democracy that
we know that everyone that the vast majority of people
in this country want and deserve.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
We will leave it there for today. But I know
that we will be calling on you again in the
weeks and months to come, because I feel like Americas
is reaching its final precipice as it pertains to democracy.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Well, this is what I'll say, maybe to end on this.
These are unprecedented of very concerning times, and we're not
going to make light of that. You and I never
make light of that. But we know that this country
has fought dehumanization, extremism, white supremacy, and it has always
been the people that have ordinary people. You don't have
(24:48):
to be a lawyer, you don't need to be a politician,
you don't need to be a radio show host. It
has been ordinary people in their ordinary lives say that
we are better than this. The future that we deserve
is better than this. The present that we live in
needs to be better than this, and we are better
than this, and we will do the work of democracy.
And that has been the thing, not our institutions. It
(25:10):
has been the people that have been the shining light
in American society, pushing for the country that we know
that we can be and what we needed this time.
And so I'll just lead that with your listeners, because
I think that you know there isn't an institution that's
going to swoop in and save us, but that we
do have, we the people, and I will stand by
(25:31):
the fact that our constitution, as imperfect as the circumstances were,
as imperfect as it can be. As Barbara Jordan, late
Congress from Barbara Jordan used to say, over time, through progress,
she became included. We became included in we the people.
And it is up to we the people in this moment.
So happy to always join you and thinking for what
(25:53):
you are doing to make sure that people are informed.
And I do think we cannot give into the cynicism,
but it is we do. Got to go to work
because there's a lot of work to do in this
moment to make sure democracy is not a lofty ideal
but actually something that can we get to live in
in this country.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Amen, Thank you, Sky, appreciate you always making the time
for woke.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Thank you, thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
That is it for me today. Hear friends on wokef
as always power to the people and to all the people. Power,
get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Host
Danielle Moodie
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