Construction of a Dictatorship

Will Ragland joins from CAP Action to discuss the very real threats of Project 2025 and a Trump election.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, peepsend. Welcome to WIKP Daily with me your girl,
Danny Almody recording from a nondisclosed location because I'm actually
not in the home bunker. Dear friend, I am excited
for today's conversation that I'm bringing to you today, which
is with Will Ragland, who is the vice president for
research at the Center for American Progress Action. And we

(00:36):
get into a conversation today about Project twenty twenty five,
the plans that are in store for America if in
folks five days, Donald Trump is re elected President of
the United States, and Will and I kind of go
through the ways that Project twenty twenty five will up
end democracy, will up end our social safety nefts, will

(00:59):
up end American life as we know it. And you
think you know to yourself, well, it's five days until
the election. Fifty million people have already voted. A lot
of folks still vote on election day, so there is
still time for this conversation, still time to alert those
in your life to how important and consequential this election

(01:22):
and this moment is. We need everyone engaged, we need
everyone educated. And this conversation with Will provides us with
a little more in depth plans of what the future
of America will look like. And I'll tell you what.
If you've listened to Elon musk recent comments about America

(01:44):
needing to face hardship in the short term in order
for there to be prosperity in the long term. That
coming from an effing billionaire who's not going to give
up a damn thing, but tells the rest of us
that we are going to need to sacrifice under the
Trump regime and get rid of social safety nets, get
rid of entitlement programs, get rid of all of the

(02:07):
things that allow for the most vulnerable among us to
be able to thrive in this society. Yeah, the future
under Donald Trump and Elon Musk looks dark. The future
under twenty twenty five looks star five days, friends, and
we're either moving forward or we're going back to the
nineteenth century. Take a listen to this interview with Will Ragland,

(02:32):
vice president of Research at the Centate for American Progress. Folks,
I am very happy to welcome to WOKF Daily, the
vice president for Research at the Cene for American Progress action,
Will Ragland, to talk to us today about Project twenty

(02:54):
twenty five, Donald Trump and how he wants to go
even further than what has been out lined in this
over nine hundred page manifest So will welcome talk to
us about what it means to go further. Being as
how I thought this was the cliff.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, yeah, no, I think broad the twenty twenty five's
outline and move toward an authoritarian state is what people
should take away from this nine hundred page play. There's
a whole host of policies in there, but at its
core is a roadmap, a manual to eliminate any hurdles,

(03:31):
any person anything, any policy that would be able to
restrict or tell the president no on a particular policy
they want to enact. Probably twenty twenty five. That's their
first priority. That's exactly what they try to lay out.
Donald Trump laid that out in the first administration and
wasn't able to get it done because of the people

(03:52):
that were able to tell them no or pump the breaks.
And a lot of those folks were career officials, career
federal employees, climate scientists, attorneys, doctors, Department general counsels who
basically said, you can't do this because it's against the law.
The number one priority that he has made clear in
his administration, and that probably twenty twenty five in the

(04:14):
other plants have outlied is a way to eliminate any
of those physicians that can tell them nough and replace
them with loyalists. They're planning right now to replace up
two fifty thousand career staff experts and folks that could
be a hurdle to him and were in the first administration,
to make sure he can start implementing some of the
policies that you may have heard about, whether it's weaponizing

(04:37):
the Department of Justice or a mass deportation plan, or
eliminating the Department of Education, eliminating public sector unions and
being able to spend appropriated dollars in a much freer
way than Congress and Ted's. So they lay that out
and he takes it a step further. We have seen
him talk repeatedly about his plan for the judiciary and

(05:02):
his appointments and court shopping. So he has worked and
it had actually made a lot of progress, and that
during his first term. His second term will take it
even further. And we saw the Supreme Court with their
immunity decision basically get rid of any accountability for the
president as long as he can figure out a way

(05:23):
to defend his actions in his official capacity. That is
the overarching thing that's in Project twenty twenty five. It's
what he tried in his first administration and what he's
outlining again. We saw it last night at Madison Square Garden.
We've seen it with this top policy folks, whether it
be Russ Boat, who is his omb director, or Steven
Miller really laying this out and admitting that they are

(05:48):
working to craft work arounds, loopholes to make sure that
there is no friction between what a President Trump wants
to do and what rules of regulations will allow him to.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
So talk to me about this, because these are things
that we've been talking about on WOLLKF for well over
a year, right, talking about the dangers of Project twenty
twenty five, talking about Steven Miller, talking about Steve Benn
and talking about the construction of a dictatorship that can
move outside of the bounds of the Constitution in order
to give the executive branch aka Donald Trump, full and

(06:23):
complete power. You remove fifty thousand civil servants from their post,
you institute an entire regime shift and change. How do
you upend the constitution? Or do they just not even care, Like, basically,
who's going to stop them. They're going to go before
a bunch of there'll be a bunch of lawsuits that
will run them up. They'll be put in front of

(06:45):
federal judges that will just what Rubbert Stamp, Donald Trump
kick it up to the Supreme Court. They'll say it's
presidential and keep it moving. What does pushback then actually
look like?

Speaker 2 (06:57):
That's a great question. So, I mean, at its core, democracy,
democratic governance requires trust in our institutions, trust in general
things that are factual. This requires a baseline of trust
in our election systems, in our courts, in our media,
in our churches to some extent, and what we've seen

(07:18):
over the last several decades is an increase of distrust
in a lot of these bedrock institutions that help us
live a normal and orderly life. To make sure we're
driving on the right side of the road, to making
sure that school lunches are made, all the way up
to making sure whether something's constitutional or not. There are

(07:40):
a lot of facets to this that could come to play,
but at its core, people us have to have a
baseline trust in those institutions. And while that had been
declining up until twenty sixteen, twenty fifteen, really when Trump
came on the scene, he tried to light that on fire.
He tried to destroy any sort of trust in institutions

(08:02):
that we rely on that give us the constructs, the
balaries that you will to live our normal lives. So
addictatorship relies on terra. He moved to a fear based narrative,
a fear based way of governing, and tried to take
everything that was not going well in people's lives and

(08:22):
place that blame on others, immigrants, the media, LGBTQ Committee,
tres community, you name it, any other thing they said
last night. I mean, I think this was a direct
quote from one of the speakers. We have to slaughter
these other people, right, So step one is tearing down
that trust to a place where there isn't this sort

(08:44):
of social contract that binds us anymore. And at step two,
it's to scare the daylights out of people and offer
what that he thinks will be the only alternative, which
is a strong hand. And if people get out of line,
we have the military to put them back in line.
We have a doj that would be the president's personal attack.
Do that's creating lists of people to monitor and watch?

(09:08):
Are we going to pull certain news outlets license this
FORFCC licenses? Are we going to threaten reporters for daring
to tell the truth and investigate certain things? Create this
level of disorientation and distrusting of the way we choose
our leaders and how we're represented with the election system.
We saw it in twenty sixteen, it was even more

(09:28):
in twenty twenty, and they're doing it again in twenty
twenty four.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
So let me ask you this, because these are things
that were made very clear at the hate rally at
Medicine Square Garden. It's something that the media, corporate media
has been ignoring for roughly nine years and doing a
piss poor job of highlighting the dangers that Donald Trump
and the MAGA Republicans pose on our normal way of

(09:56):
life in America. And you know, I have said it
that the reason for this fifty thousand group of loyalists
on their right wing LinkedIn is so that they can
institute these changes within the first one hundred days of
a Trump administration, because people love to believe that they
have more time than they do. So can you talk

(10:17):
to us about this timeline that we're working on. If
in fact, the worst comes to fruition and Donald Trump
is able to become president again, which will be the
last presidency this country we'll ever see. What does the
timeline for you look like? What do folks at CAP
what do you think about how quickly things will shift?

Speaker 2 (10:40):
I think there are a number of factors. It depends
on what the setate in the House look like. Ay,
But you know, I do think that as you know,
part of Project twenty twenty five. You've got your nine
hundred page policy volume, you've got your conservative LinkedIn. But
then there's this secret playbook, this one hundred and eighty
day playbook, which is essentially what we know about it
a set of draft executive orders that will allow them

(11:03):
to create goopholes and get as much done via executive
fiat instead of having to work with Congress. So I
think the timing depends on what Congress looks like. But
I think they're looking to move at a very fast speed,
and they're trying to put the personnel in place to
make that go as quickly as possible. Are they going

(11:24):
to be able to get all that und pages done
on the first hundred days. I seriously doubt it, but
there is a lot in there that they're going to
move on, and I think probably one of the first
orders of business will be best deportation. Of what that
looks like. We're hearing everything from going after folks that
are here legally under whatever visas, going after undocumented folks

(11:46):
who may be part of a family and removing that
entire family. They're talking about getting rid of a lot
of the naturalization processes, and they're talking about, you know,
if you're born here, whether you should be a citizen.
They're talking about all of this, and one of their
biggest proponents of this is Elon Musk, who we found
out over the weekend was here initially illegally as well

(12:06):
under a student visa, and started his first business as
an adocumented immigrant. I don't think they care too much
about that. I think they're probably looking for a certain
type of immergrant. But I don't think they understand either,
just how impactfulness will be on our economy. And you
know how much folks rely on people who are coming
here to work and take care of jobs that a

(12:29):
lot of Americans know.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
So you know, the funny thing is, well, I don't
think they give a damn. The fact is is that
this has everything to do with racism, It has everything
to do with xenophobia, It has everything to do with hate.
And so I don't think that they care how the
economy works for everyone else. They care about how the
economy will work for the top one percent. And so

(12:50):
I think that you have nobel economists that have come
out and have said that Donald Trump's economic plans will
cause probably the steepest recession, if not just a full
blown depression that we have seen since like the twentieth century,
and the biggest crash that this country experienced. I wonder, then,

(13:12):
what does the recourse look like here. Let's now pivot
and present the other worldview, which is that of Kamala Harris,
the Center for American Progress and all of us who
actually believe in democracy if she manages to win. And
I come to you today as ballot boxes were just
set on fire in Washington and Oregon that we are

(13:33):
seeing all over the news today in another act of
domestic terrorism, that we have officials like Speaker of the
House Mike Johnson, who Donald Trump says he has a
little secret with that they will reveal after the election,
because I don't believe that he's going to go ahead
and certify the election. If in fact, Kamala Harris wins,

(13:53):
what does recourse look like, because these people and their
plans for this country don't just go away with one election.
And if she is elected and somehow is able to
get sworn in in January, I don't even know if
we can call what is needed a rebuild because there
is so much friction and Donald Trump is priming his

(14:16):
audience right now for violence. So you know, in your mind, like,
how does this play if in fact we quote unquote win.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
No, that's an excellent question. I think we all have
to be ready for this to be an ever present fight.
You know, especially in the next decade. This is not
going to go away. If Vice President Harris wins. There's
going to be a number of a large number of
people in this country that are going to continue to
be distrustful of institutions. There have been people talk about
the death of deliverism, right the fact that inflation reduction

(14:47):
I've really delivered for a lot of red areas in
the country. The fact that our job's numbers an unemployment
are as good as they are and yes, the one
challenge with inflation. It's up everywhere, but you know we've
handled that better than any other developed country. So it's
going to be hard, and this is going to have
to be something that we face square in the face.
We have to look at ourselves in the mirror. We
have to be honest and transparent with the other side,

(15:10):
and we have to hold that actor accountable. And I
think that's really the best path we're going to do.
It's going to be a long, hard battle even if
we win, but I think we have to show them
that show everyone in the country that this job can
be done, and we're better as a nation when we
come together. But there's no neat trick that we're going
to be able to do on the first day, let
alone the first six months or of those four years.

(15:32):
I think we really have to think about laying the
foundation of transparency, accountability and walk in the wall.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
What do you think that the role is then for
organizations like yours, for the Center for American Progress either way, frankly, so,
to tell me first what you think the role is
of CAP if there is in fact a Trump regime.
Where do you see your organization.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
First and foremost, I think we're working really hard to
make sure that it's progressive vision and values that we
have will have a possibility and that X administration. But
if there is a Trump administration, I think what you'll
see from places like the Center for American Progress is
working like the Dickens to make sure that there's transparency,
that we're calling a spade a spade and making sure

(16:19):
that we have real accountability, that we're showing people what's
going on. And it will be tougher, it will be
harder if things roll out the way he says they
could roll out. But I think that is going to
be a critical rule for places like us to look
at the policies that are happening, to paint a picture
of their impacts, to tell the stories of people who

(16:40):
are workers who are no longer able to join a union,
or are no longer able to get school meals for
their children, or tell the story of the people who's
liger are being impacted day in and day out, people
who are being monitored and threatened for trying to create
environments where there's more access to reproductive health, creating environments

(17:02):
where you know there's more help for people that need
it the most creating environments where there is high quality
education for everybody. You know, one of the things you
mentioned in this paper that trumps moving further, that doesn't
get talked a whole lot about, is with the elimination
of the Department of Education, comes elimination of big primary
funding sources for special education for low income kids. And

(17:24):
there's no real plan or anything in place to replace that.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
There because they don't want to replace it, right, because
those children with special needs, low income children don't matter
in the grand scheme of things, right, so they want
to basically eliminate the progress that was made in the
twentieth century and take us all the way back to
the nineteenth. My last question for you is what do
you think the role is of cap If Kamala is

(17:50):
able to win. And again, like we said, this problem right,
these people, this agenda is not going away. So where
do you see your role?

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Then our role will be to fight first and foremost
to ensure that women have access to reproductive healthcare. Again
our number one priorities, you know, give it away. Congress
is going to be made up. We're going to have
to work with states, We're gonna have to work with
attorneys General to make sure that these rights are put
back in place, and that's going to be a process

(18:20):
as well, But that's one of our biggest priorities. The
second is going to be making sure that we put
economic supports in place, and economic opportunity and jed that
in place for people to thrive, for people to continue
to thrive, to continue to tamp down in place, to
get to make it so people can afford the things
they need, especially healthcare. I think there's a lot left
to do there. We've made a lot of progress since ACA,

(18:43):
but there's a lot more to do.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
And I really love Vice President Harris's proposal for the
Sandwich generation, these individuals who are taking care of their
kids and their parents and working to make sure that
the care that their parents need and the education that
their kids need is accept and affordable.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
She's got a clear cut, an awesome play there. I
think speaks to a lot of people. And you know,
I've said this before and in other interviews. I really
think that's one of the sleeper issues that people should
pay attention to and really resonates with a lot of folks. Meanwhile,
the other side, I just do want to mention this touse.
You brought it up earlier. It really takes a lot
of effort for them to figure out a way to

(19:21):
cut taxes and still increase the taxes on the middle
class while giving massive cuts to the top end. So
what do I mean by that? What he says he
wants to get rid of income taxes, He's going to
replace that revenue with tariffs, which are sales taxes, they're
consumption taxes. And the people that's going to hurt the
most are the middle class, the bottom eighty percent. Who

(19:43):
is that going to help the most? The richest okay,
the richest in corporations. Even some of the proposals he's
put forward that don't go as far as that. For instance,
cutting the corporate ratedown to fifteen percent would mean a
fifty billion dollar able tax cut for just one hundred
largest corporations. So to me, that is something that I
think is resonating with a lot of voters. I think

(20:05):
if you look at issue polls Bloomberg have recently, Vice
President Harris has really closed the gap on middle class economics,
the cost of goods, And to me, that is where
I'd like us to continue to focus on in the
next administration and ensuring debt workers have a voice, a
collective voice, primarily three unions, to make sure that they
can collectively bargain for safe work places and adequate pay

(20:29):
and benefits.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Well, we'll leave it there today. Thank you so much
for the work that you are doing over at cap
Action and cap in general. Really appreciate it. Do you
want to say the name of the report?

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, absolutely so. My co author is Kelly McCoy and
the report that is being released is called five Ways
Donald Trump's plans are even more extreme than Project twenty
twenty five.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Amazing. All right, thank you so much, and we will
see you on the other side of this election.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
That is it for me today. Dear friends, on wo
gay up as always, Power to the people and to
all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke. As
FA