May 23, 2024 • 28 mins
Joe Biden is standing alone next to Israel, and the rest of the world is taking notice. Who else is taking notice are Democratic voters, and today Danielle talks with Jonathan Metzl about the urgent need to show up to fight Donald Trump regardless.
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, Keeps, and welcome to wikate F Daily with
me your Girl, Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
I want to talk about before we jump into our
conversation with our friend Jonathan Metzel, just recent polls that
have come out and this idea that there is growing
(00:31):
descent inside of the Democratic tent. And what I want
to say is that I get it right. I'm the
first person to say on a regular basis that Joe
Biden is really ruining his chances of re election because
of his staunch, quote unquote ironclad support of Netanyahu's genocide.
(00:56):
And what we are seeing take place around the world
are countries that are recognizing, one by one Palestine as
an independent state, with three this week, Norway, Spain, and
Ireland in a United press conference recognizing Palestine as a state.
(01:17):
There are now one hundred and forty two of the
one hundred and ninety two countries inside of the UN
that are making this decision, and the United States is
becoming increasingly isolated in this area. And while I'm looking
at these numbers, and I'm looking at the fact that
these countries have been changing their position right when they
(01:40):
are polling on this issue, people are changing their position
to where you know, prior to October seventh, but prior
to nearly forty thousand depths in Palestine, you know, people
were this was not top of mind and top of conversation.
Now the situation has drastically changed. And the more death
(02:01):
and the more feminine, the more despair that we are
seeing play out on our screens, the more that other
countries outside of the United States are putting a stake
in the ground. And I'm wondering where the United States
is going to be left right if they are standing
alone next to Israel, right, And this is something that
(02:23):
this president is going to really need to take into consideration,
you know, moving outside of our foreign affairs, massive like
fucking disaster. I want to take a look at where
the polls are and we'll dig into this with Jonathan
with a recent Vanderbilt pole, where people are in terms
(02:44):
of their stances on abortion, particularly in these redder states
like Tennessee where Vanderbilt University is. And what we are
seeing is that since the overturning of Roe v. Wade,
since the Dobbs decision, that people that were readily referred
to themselves as pro life quote unquote are now pro
choice right because what they believe in what we are
(03:09):
seeing with every single headline that now is not just
sufficient that we have overturned abortion rights in twenty states
in this country, but that you see governors like Virginia's
Glenn Youngkin who is not trying to have people have
access to contraception, and you see signals coming from MAGA
(03:31):
that contraception is next. And I just want folks to
think about, just think for a fucking moment, what this
country will look like if women and people with uteruses
no longer have access to contraception right, if the birth
control after pill like condoms, all of these things are
just readily off the market and unavailable and become illegal
(03:56):
in this country, what will happen to the prospects in
the future of women. So go back to the fucking,
you know, nineteenth century where Republicans are looking for legislation
to uphold their draconian policies, because that's what the fuck
it will look like. And again for folks to say, well,
that can't happen. So I'm gonna, you know, move with
(04:17):
my protest vote come November. Think fucking again, because after
fifty years of access to abortion. We never thought that
that would be overturned in our lifetimes, and yet here
we sit. So just as you think that things can't
get any worse, I want to promise you they fucking will.
Coming up next my conversation with our friend, our in
(04:40):
house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks, you know that whenever
we have the opportunity to speak with our in house doctor,
doctor Jonathan metzil, we are always thrilled. And Jonathan, you
have some news and updates for us, so please share.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, Hey, everybody, I've been I've been really burning it
last couple of weeks. I'm just back from DC. I
was at a conference. You and I have talked about
this a little bit, but I coined this term structural competency,
which I developed with some other people to look at
how you can engage anti racist health education, not just
(05:17):
about like changing people's identities or attitudes, but actually changing
the structures that promote inequity. And it turned out that
was just a term that I came up with at
the end of my Protest Psychosis book, and then a
bunch of scholars and I developed some papers and we
found out that it's now going to be a requisite
part of training for all medical students in the United
(05:38):
States that actually this has been picked up by the
Crediting Board, and so we had a meeting right now.
This has obviously been in the works for a couple
of years, but what does it mean to train all
medical students? In other words, if you think of all
medical students graduating, and there's caveats from history, you know
(05:58):
where culture competency was this big thing, and then when
it became something that everybody had to do, it just
became like a checkbox thing that you just did to
fill out the paperwork.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
And so we had this.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Meeting to kind of figure out why, you know, what's
the state of social justice and medicine and equity in
this moment.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
And I'll be keeping people updated.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
On that, and so lots going on because of course
it's also a serious moment because of the Supreme Court
affirmative action decisions and what would happen to education if
Trump won and all these kind of things, and so
a lot of ballancing about how to further those things.
And then next week I will say hi to everybody
from Hawaii if anybody wants.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
To join me.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
The very tough place.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
You know, It's funny.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I read the reservation, I'm like at the plannerser raised,
I'm like you, And then I was looking at my
itinery yesterday.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
You know how long it takes to get to Hawaii.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
From New York, like seven hours?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
It's eleven hour flight. Uh, you know why?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I really did not know that I've ever been, so
I had.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
No idea, and maybe I picked the slow flight that
like goes, do you have a connection. No, it's straight flight.
I don't think they are in the carpool lane maybe
or something. I don't know, Oh my god. But yeah,
so it's eleven hour lifting flight. But then you layand
and it's like, hey, here's your you know why tie
and all this stuff. But I'm going for that. I mean,
let's be out someone. But I'm also going because the
(07:23):
national it's called the ENCORE Conference, the Conference for Diversity Educators,
is now and this is again the last of these
meetings before the twenty four election. And so the question
is what kind of mobilization do we want to do,
what's the state of equity education? And what would happen
if Trump won? It would be dramatic effects to things
(07:44):
like accrediting boards and things like that, and so a
lot coming from me about the state of equity, education
and politics and how we can kind of get involved
and think about things going up to November.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Awesome, awesome, so well, exciting, all those exciting things, and
you will keep us posted and let us know how
that conference goes and we can talk about some of
the outcomes from there as we close out one semester
in school year and begin another in just a handful
of months, and what that means for the upcoming election.
(08:22):
One of the things that I want to turn turn
the attention to, even though folks know that when I
discuss polls, I want people to take them with a
grain of salt, But there are sometimes polls that come
out that I think offer us a better window into
how the climate, how the culture is actually moving. And
(08:43):
one of those polls, Jonathan, you brought my attention to
that comes out of your university, the Vanderbilt Pole majority
of Tennessee voters now pro choice, gender gap developing on
key issues, and I just to read a couple of
these stats and then we can we can jump in.
(09:04):
So about a little over a thousand people were polled
for this and this is what came out of this poll.
Some of the top top high highlighted points. One, the
majority of Tennessee registered voters consider themselves definitely or somewhat
pro choice, including ninety three percent of Democrats, fifty four
(09:27):
percent of Independence and thirty percent of non MGA Republicans.
There is a vast differing of attitudes between men and
women on key state issues that they're saying could prove
influential on public policy. IVF and proposed gun control legislation
have bipartisan approval, and sixty percent of Tennessee voters favor
(09:50):
legalizing marijuana for recreational use. So let's dive into I
think what is the most interesting, which is the abortion
piece as well as the gun piece, right, because when
we think about Tennessee, we do not think of it
as a bastion for progressivism, right, and particularly since what
(10:13):
has happened. Oh my god, Jonathan has been it's over
a year since the shooting at the religious school.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, it's a little it's about fourteen months style, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah, So about fourteen months since that shooting, we have
seen marches on the state capitol. We have seen the
two justices in the State House have to fight for
their right to represent their constituents, and special elections have
been censured. We've seen mothers thrown out of the gallery.
(10:47):
But this poll seems to be giving us a different
window and picture into how things have been moving since
this Republican controlled legislature has basically bucked the will of
the people. Were you surprised by some of the things
that you were seeing in this poll come out? And
what trends do you see as we go forward across
(11:07):
the country.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Well, it's great.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
My colleagues and political science do this poll regularly, and
so it's kind of a barometer, especially of attitudes in Tennessee.
And I think there are several important things to note. First,
it is surprising how many people identify as pro choice
even now, even after all this, you know, it's surprising
(11:29):
that that is something that I think Democrats have rightly illustrated.
In other words, if the election was held which Democrats
wanted to be on women's reproductive choice, Democrats would win.
And that's why you hear Kamala Harris and other people
talking about this, because it's just something that people have
accepted as a woman's choice, and that's been the law
(11:52):
for quite a long time in this country, and I
think in Tennessee, people are wary of a right being
taken away, and so I think that you know, when
you hear Democrats repeatedly go back to this, and I've
seen some commentators here talking about, you know, why did
Democrats keep talking about it? I'm like, dude, this is
why keep talking about it is because actually it's something
(12:13):
that people feel. It's something feel is pretty strongly. So
that's part part of what I think we saw. The
other thing is there's been a concerted move in red
state Tennessee, especially after the Commonwealth shooting. We've got we've
got candidates running for state house. The mom of the
one of the victims of the waffle house shooting, Shandel Brooks,
(12:36):
is running for a state house Covenant moms are running
for state house. And so that shooting really, I think
mobilized really a new kind of gun safety mobilization in
what had been a relatively dormant issue.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
And I think that's important.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
As I've said many times in our conversations, I think
that the answer to the gun issue is going to
come through red state. It's not like blue states. We're
not going to take blue state laws and just apply
them to red states. Used to think that, but I
don't believe that anymore. So that's the positive is there's
a lot of mobilization going on. I think the three
caveats that are big national caveats for.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
People to worry about.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Number one is just because somebody says something on a
pole doesn't mean they're going to vote for it as
a wedge issue. And that's the trap that I think
we fall into. A lot, like eighty five percent of
people have always supported background checks, for example, but that
doesn't mean if somebody doesn't support it as a candidate,
they're going to vote that person out of office. And
so part of the trick is how can you create
(13:39):
this into a wedge issue which is not the same
as supporting it in a poll. So that's very important
Number one.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Important.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Number two is a lot of these things are wedge
issues for Republicans but not for Democrats. And so, for example,
overwhelmingly Republicans will vote on gun issues, but Democrats, you know,
you ask them what's your key voting issue, and it'll
give you twenty different answers. As it's harder to mobilize
around these kind of polls. When I see Republicans all
(14:08):
support something, I get much more concerned because it's like, man,
we're in trouble.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And then the third is.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
The Republicans have created a system that's immune to popular opinion.
So one hundred percent of people could support a lot
of these things, and yet because of the super majority
jerimandering that's happened over the past couple of decades, which
we're just now beginning to ship way up, but it
took them fifty years to get there. One hundred people,
one hundred percent of people could support something, and it
(14:36):
doesn't mean anybody is going to lose the election. And
so to me, those are the meta points. I'm happy
to dig down into the specific gun points, which I
think are pretty interesting, but I think those are the
big metapoints.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
You know, I want to talk about the mobilization of
a new kind of group of candidates. Right when you're
talking about the Covenant moms, the moms of those students
who were either killed or affected right by a school
shooting happening there, as well as the waffle house, which
(15:09):
you cover in your new book, What We've Become. I wonder, again,
just digging into kind of the gender divide right and
this idea that you have two issues that I think
are really important issues to women and two progressives, which
is abortion, access to abortion and gun safety. And when
(15:30):
we look at abortion, I think that what's most surprising
to me is that I believe that Republicans thought that
they will have a slam dung in terms of overturning
Roe v. Wade, and then everyone just kind of going
quietly into the night when if people were saying, because
what they've said in this poll, they were pro life
(15:50):
until the Dobs decision was overturned, and now they're pro choice.
So I'm curious as to I'm going to use a
word that is the all always used in the negative,
but I actually think that we need to reclaim it.
What is it?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Okay, you're going to say, you're going to say diversity.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
No, that diversity. I was going to say, what is it?
Speaker 2 (16:17):
It's going to be something about the alliance that keeps
us all together?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
No, I'm going to go with radicalization. And I think,
yeah that I think that, you know, the more that
these school shootings happen in communities that think that they
are insulated or protected from these types of shootings, which
(16:41):
we've seen more and more happen in suburbs. I believe
that this Covenant School was one of the first religious
schools that we've seen it happen, although we've seen shootings
at synagogues and at churches and this abortion issue. I'm
just curious for you because again, we saw mothers be
thrown out of the state House for holding up a sign,
(17:02):
right for doing things like that. So what do you
make of this kind of this radicalization that I think
is happening with more women seeking to run for public
office and more women essentially on the front lines, which
they largely have been. But I'm specifically kind of talking
(17:22):
about white women here. Black women have always been on
the front lines of marches in protests, but you're seeing
it happen now with white women who have largely aligned
themselves with the Republican Party.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, we'll have to see how it matters electorally. And
so I think what we're seeing is an important movement,
right And the question is, when you use the term
radical is the radicalization that that they are switching parties?
Is it that they are rethinking things? I mean, I'll
tell you that from the it seems pretty obvious just
(17:57):
take five minutes on social media. The Republican strategy is
to make Dobbs old news, to say, oh, yeah, that's
the latest. Thank people are tired of that. We're seeing
in some elections, some of the elections that were yesterday
as we record this, that some people who were totally
totally pro choice didn't win just based on that issue
in places like Oregon and other places and so. But
(18:22):
the other thing is what's coming next. So the question
is we'll be able to mobilize people on November or
will there be many other issues which are you know,
look over here, look over here, look over here, or
will we be united? Now I can say that I've
interviewed Republicans for a long time and they were unbelievably
united about pro life. Like I mean, I would interview
(18:44):
people on the ground in the middle of nowhere who
like that was their voting issue. And Democrats need their
voters to just vote on this issue and not based
on divisions about about Gaza for example, or not divisions thinks.
So the question is the question here is will the
Democrats will be able to mobilize a coalition that will
vote on this as a wedge issue?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
In light of all the other issues.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
About Gaza, about policing, about capitalism, about all these kind
of things. If that's the case, Democrats win. And I
think the stakes are pretty darn high for a lot
of reasons. I mean, Trump, you know, the guy who
had the first Reichick advertisement the other day, has said
in an interview kind of hinted that that regulations are
(19:28):
coming for contraception for IVF obviously, and all these things.
So Dobbs is just the beginning of what could happen
under Alito and Thomas and and in the Supreme Court.
And so the question really that I have for you
is will the Democrats be able to unify and mobilize
Because polls like Tennessee show a possible way forward. They
(19:49):
actually don't show it for guns, right, if you dig
down into that data. For guns, it's really divided about stuff,
except for as always, should mentally ill people be full taxes? Guy,
That's always the thing that people always agree on. But
they're divided about guns. For teachers, they're divided about I think.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
They're also divided on what constitutes of mental illness.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I'm saying, like, for me,
the gun, the gun the gun. Honestly, looking at the
date of the gun the gun answer was not super surprising,
except that I know that they're different. There are different
political agendas right now, and I think if depending on
how the election turns out and who shows up, that issue.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Could potentially shift.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
You'd never know if if the minute Republicans start losing
on an issue in a gerimander area, that's when all
of a sudden you'll see the change. But I think, really,
I think that the Democrats and best bad is mobilizing
around the really justifiable real fear. I mean, Trump is
looking at the birth control pill and looking at obviously
IVF for that was not a mistake, and things like that.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And so.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I guess the question I have for you is knowing
everything you know and thinking about this tennessee pull as
one example of why that might be this strategy, But
there are many other strategies, some of which are exactly
against unifying Democrats across ideology, and I think a lot
of people that I know can't decide whether they want
(21:11):
to support the Democrats or quote unquote burn the Democrats down.
Under the fantasy that a more leftist, radical Democratic party
would emerge in its stead and so I guess the
question is do you see this as an issue that
Democrats could mobilize around in a coherent way that would
sway the election.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I think that Democrats need to get over the idea
that they need to one hundred percent love or support
all of the things that a candidate supports. I think
that we need to move away from this idea that
if I am aligned with Biden on democracy, on abortion,
that like, because I am not aligned with him as
(21:52):
it pertains to Gaza, and you know, and let's say
the economy, then that means I'm not going to vote
for him. But I think that folks need to start
to understand that where we are is do we want
the opportunity to continue to protest and fight for a
better country or do we want that to be one
of the less rights that are taken away? Right? Because
(22:15):
I can continue, I would be happy, right if folks
are like, well, you know, I swallow the pill and
I vote for Biden, but we're getting out and protesting,
you know, the inauguration, go with God. I'll be on
the front lines with you to protest at inauguration. If
in fact, the inauguration is for Joe Biden. But what
folks need to I think that they need to wrap
(22:35):
their minds around is that we're never going to align
one hundred percent of the time on all of the issues.
But are we willing to give up our democracy? Right?
And in with this with the fantasy that not voting
for Joe Biden is going to be the thumb in
the face to the Democratic Party as opposed to the
end of our democracy. So I think that, like, these
(22:56):
are real things that that are happening. I think that
with this poll, the Biden administration does have the opportunity
to kind of rally around this idea, which I think
that they're doing. The place that I do believe that
they're doing a good job is around abortion, Like is
keeping that in the news. But we also have to
understand Republicans are keeping it in the news. You have
(23:17):
Florida that just put in place their six week abortion ban, right.
You have states like Alabama and your state of Tennessee
and all of these places that are tinkering with IVF.
You have Virginia where Governor Younkin just vetoed the right
to access to contraception right. So they're the ones that
(23:39):
are keeping this in the news. So it's up to
Democrats to pound the pavement and say, in this election,
you may need to be a single issue voter because
they're not done with reproductive freedom, with just abortion. They're
coming for every single thing. So what happens to women
and people with uteruses in this country if they no
(23:59):
longer or have access to contraception? I mean, honestly, like
what happens?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, no, we become I mean, if you want to
play it out, you know, the agenda is, it's very
transparent and it's very terrifying. I mean, just look at you.
You read that Project twenty twenty five thing and deporting
a ton of people and creating basically of labor underclass
of Americans who then will do that labor. It's not
(24:28):
going to work out really well for people who you know.
I think we need to get there. I think the
threat is very serious and very real, and the question
is how do you message that given I mean, there
are just so many, so many potential scary areas to
drive around right now. I mean I've been following really
(24:48):
closely the elections yesterday, Progressives across the board relatively lost
to Centrists in a lot of places even like Portland.
So there was a risk thing in those elections of
going too far left for an election. Not that people
shouldn't go too far left, but in a place even
like Portland, which is a lefty paradise that you know,
(25:11):
things like safety and drugs and immigration and things like
that were centric centrist one and so and so I
think that's that's part of the thing, is how do
you bring centrists and progressives back together if that's the goal,
when the fantasy is like, you know, yeah, it's not
just own the Libs. It's like I'm going to own
the Centrists now, or I'm going to own the expre
(25:32):
mess or something like that. Like the idea of like
me against you is it's not just about two parties
and you've got to think like one party. And so
I think that's that's part of it, is like healing
these democratic rifts. But then the other part is, I
can't remember what state did you see this? There were
it was like a massive portion of undecided. They didn't
vote for Biden, they voted for undecided. But it wasn't
(25:54):
people voting protesting Gaza. It was people protesting something else.
That was a a much more far right position in
the Democratic Party. So now a bunch of other candidates
electors are going to the Democratic Party not being committed
to Biden also, but they're not doing it because of
gods that they're doing it because of I can't remember
some other.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I can't remember what the issue is.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I mean, no disrespect anybody, but and so the the
Democratic Convention is going to have protests, yeah, it's going to,
but all these different undecided voters and all these kind
of things. So I don't know, I mean, I just
feel like we should, like with respect everybody. I love,
just frigging roofing myself and everybody else and like get
us all on the same page and then, you know,
(26:38):
or something like. It's just the amount of like not
just real discord. I'm not trying to take away from it.
But also this kind of chaos just serves the Republicans.
And so yeah, sorry.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
That was that was that was a rant. But I'm
just feeling frustrated.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
No, as we close out, Like, I believe in everybody's
right to protest, I believe in everybody's right to you know,
utilize uh these you know, primaries, local elections to have
their voices heard. But I need people that as we
get to November, they get their shit together and recognize
that like, we're not going to have that right to
continue to protest, We're not going to have workers' rights
(27:13):
and protections. We're going to have an underclass, We're going
to have a subjugated female population. And if you think
that things are bad now, I assure you they can
get worse under the United Reich, which is what the
MAGA Republicans want. We'll leave it there today. My friend
Jonathan Safe travels to Hawaii and we'll talk to you
(27:35):
when you're on the ground there.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I will next next week, I'll if anybody wants to
be there not I'll hold up a pineapple next week
when we're talking.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
That is it for me today, Dear friends on willk
F as always Power to the people and to all
the people. Power, get woke and stay work is spot
Good morning, Keeps, and welcome to wikate F Daily with
me your Girl, Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
I want to talk about before we jump into our
conversation with our friend Jonathan Metzel, just recent polls that
have come out and this idea that there is growing
(00:31):
descent inside of the Democratic tent. And what I want
to say is that I get it right. I'm the
first person to say on a regular basis that Joe
Biden is really ruining his chances of re election because
of his staunch, quote unquote ironclad support of Netanyahu's genocide.
(00:56):
And what we are seeing take place around the world
are countries that are recognizing, one by one Palestine as
an independent state, with three this week, Norway, Spain, and
Ireland in a United press conference recognizing Palestine as a state.
(01:17):
There are now one hundred and forty two of the
one hundred and ninety two countries inside of the UN
that are making this decision, and the United States is
becoming increasingly isolated in this area. And while I'm looking
at these numbers, and I'm looking at the fact that
these countries have been changing their position right when they
(01:40):
are polling on this issue, people are changing their position
to where you know, prior to October seventh, but prior
to nearly forty thousand depths in Palestine, you know, people
were this was not top of mind and top of conversation.
Now the situation has drastically changed. And the more death
(02:01):
and the more feminine, the more despair that we are
seeing play out on our screens, the more that other
countries outside of the United States are putting a stake
in the ground. And I'm wondering where the United States
is going to be left right if they are standing
alone next to Israel, right, And this is something that
(02:23):
this president is going to really need to take into consideration,
you know, moving outside of our foreign affairs, massive like
fucking disaster. I want to take a look at where
the polls are and we'll dig into this with Jonathan
with a recent Vanderbilt pole, where people are in terms
(02:44):
of their stances on abortion, particularly in these redder states
like Tennessee where Vanderbilt University is. And what we are
seeing is that since the overturning of Roe v. Wade,
since the Dobbs decision, that people that were readily referred
to themselves as pro life quote unquote are now pro
choice right because what they believe in what we are
(03:09):
seeing with every single headline that now is not just
sufficient that we have overturned abortion rights in twenty states
in this country, but that you see governors like Virginia's
Glenn Youngkin who is not trying to have people have
access to contraception, and you see signals coming from MAGA
(03:31):
that contraception is next. And I just want folks to
think about, just think for a fucking moment, what this
country will look like if women and people with uteruses
no longer have access to contraception right, if the birth
control after pill like condoms, all of these things are
just readily off the market and unavailable and become illegal
(03:56):
in this country, what will happen to the prospects in
the future of women. So go back to the fucking,
you know, nineteenth century where Republicans are looking for legislation
to uphold their draconian policies, because that's what the fuck
it will look like. And again for folks to say, well,
that can't happen. So I'm gonna, you know, move with
(04:17):
my protest vote come November. Think fucking again, because after
fifty years of access to abortion. We never thought that
that would be overturned in our lifetimes, and yet here
we sit. So just as you think that things can't
get any worse, I want to promise you they fucking will.
Coming up next my conversation with our friend, our in
(04:40):
house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks, you know that whenever
we have the opportunity to speak with our in house doctor,
doctor Jonathan metzil, we are always thrilled. And Jonathan, you
have some news and updates for us, so please share.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, Hey, everybody, I've been I've been really burning it
last couple of weeks. I'm just back from DC. I
was at a conference. You and I have talked about
this a little bit, but I coined this term structural competency,
which I developed with some other people to look at
how you can engage anti racist health education, not just
(05:17):
about like changing people's identities or attitudes, but actually changing
the structures that promote inequity. And it turned out that
was just a term that I came up with at
the end of my Protest Psychosis book, and then a
bunch of scholars and I developed some papers and we
found out that it's now going to be a requisite
part of training for all medical students in the United
(05:38):
States that actually this has been picked up by the
Crediting Board, and so we had a meeting right now.
This has obviously been in the works for a couple
of years, but what does it mean to train all
medical students? In other words, if you think of all
medical students graduating, and there's caveats from history, you know
(05:58):
where culture competency was this big thing, and then when
it became something that everybody had to do, it just
became like a checkbox thing that you just did to
fill out the paperwork.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
And so we had this.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Meeting to kind of figure out why, you know, what's
the state of social justice and medicine and equity in
this moment.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
And I'll be keeping people updated.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
On that, and so lots going on because of course
it's also a serious moment because of the Supreme Court
affirmative action decisions and what would happen to education if
Trump won and all these kind of things, and so
a lot of ballancing about how to further those things.
And then next week I will say hi to everybody
from Hawaii if anybody wants.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
To join me.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
The very tough place.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
You know, It's funny.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I read the reservation, I'm like at the plannerser raised,
I'm like you, And then I was looking at my
itinery yesterday.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
You know how long it takes to get to Hawaii.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
From New York, like seven hours?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
It's eleven hour flight. Uh, you know why?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I really did not know that I've ever been, so
I had.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
No idea, and maybe I picked the slow flight that
like goes, do you have a connection. No, it's straight flight.
I don't think they are in the carpool lane maybe
or something. I don't know, Oh my god. But yeah,
so it's eleven hour lifting flight. But then you layand
and it's like, hey, here's your you know why tie
and all this stuff. But I'm going for that. I mean,
let's be out someone. But I'm also going because the
(07:23):
national it's called the ENCORE Conference, the Conference for Diversity Educators,
is now and this is again the last of these
meetings before the twenty four election. And so the question
is what kind of mobilization do we want to do,
what's the state of equity education? And what would happen
if Trump won? It would be dramatic effects to things
(07:44):
like accrediting boards and things like that, and so a
lot coming from me about the state of equity, education
and politics and how we can kind of get involved
and think about things going up to November.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Awesome, awesome, so well, exciting, all those exciting things, and
you will keep us posted and let us know how
that conference goes and we can talk about some of
the outcomes from there as we close out one semester
in school year and begin another in just a handful
of months, and what that means for the upcoming election.
(08:22):
One of the things that I want to turn turn
the attention to, even though folks know that when I
discuss polls, I want people to take them with a
grain of salt, But there are sometimes polls that come
out that I think offer us a better window into
how the climate, how the culture is actually moving. And
(08:43):
one of those polls, Jonathan, you brought my attention to
that comes out of your university, the Vanderbilt Pole majority
of Tennessee voters now pro choice, gender gap developing on
key issues, and I just to read a couple of
these stats and then we can we can jump in.
(09:04):
So about a little over a thousand people were polled
for this and this is what came out of this poll.
Some of the top top high highlighted points. One, the
majority of Tennessee registered voters consider themselves definitely or somewhat
pro choice, including ninety three percent of Democrats, fifty four
(09:27):
percent of Independence and thirty percent of non MGA Republicans.
There is a vast differing of attitudes between men and
women on key state issues that they're saying could prove
influential on public policy. IVF and proposed gun control legislation
have bipartisan approval, and sixty percent of Tennessee voters favor
(09:50):
legalizing marijuana for recreational use. So let's dive into I
think what is the most interesting, which is the abortion
piece as well as the gun piece, right, because when
we think about Tennessee, we do not think of it
as a bastion for progressivism, right, and particularly since what
(10:13):
has happened. Oh my god, Jonathan has been it's over
a year since the shooting at the religious school.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, it's a little it's about fourteen months style, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah, So about fourteen months since that shooting, we have
seen marches on the state capitol. We have seen the
two justices in the State House have to fight for
their right to represent their constituents, and special elections have
been censured. We've seen mothers thrown out of the gallery.
(10:47):
But this poll seems to be giving us a different
window and picture into how things have been moving since
this Republican controlled legislature has basically bucked the will of
the people. Were you surprised by some of the things
that you were seeing in this poll come out? And
what trends do you see as we go forward across
(11:07):
the country.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Well, it's great.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
My colleagues and political science do this poll regularly, and
so it's kind of a barometer, especially of attitudes in Tennessee.
And I think there are several important things to note. First,
it is surprising how many people identify as pro choice
even now, even after all this, you know, it's surprising
(11:29):
that that is something that I think Democrats have rightly illustrated.
In other words, if the election was held which Democrats
wanted to be on women's reproductive choice, Democrats would win.
And that's why you hear Kamala Harris and other people
talking about this, because it's just something that people have
accepted as a woman's choice, and that's been the law
(11:52):
for quite a long time in this country, and I
think in Tennessee, people are wary of a right being
taken away, and so I think that you know, when
you hear Democrats repeatedly go back to this, and I've
seen some commentators here talking about, you know, why did
Democrats keep talking about it? I'm like, dude, this is
why keep talking about it is because actually it's something
(12:13):
that people feel. It's something feel is pretty strongly. So
that's part part of what I think we saw. The
other thing is there's been a concerted move in red
state Tennessee, especially after the Commonwealth shooting. We've got we've
got candidates running for state house. The mom of the
one of the victims of the waffle house shooting, Shandel Brooks,
(12:36):
is running for a state house Covenant moms are running
for state house. And so that shooting really, I think
mobilized really a new kind of gun safety mobilization in
what had been a relatively dormant issue.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
And I think that's important.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
As I've said many times in our conversations, I think
that the answer to the gun issue is going to
come through red state. It's not like blue states. We're
not going to take blue state laws and just apply
them to red states. Used to think that, but I
don't believe that anymore. So that's the positive is there's
a lot of mobilization going on. I think the three
caveats that are big national caveats for.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
People to worry about.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Number one is just because somebody says something on a
pole doesn't mean they're going to vote for it as
a wedge issue. And that's the trap that I think
we fall into. A lot, like eighty five percent of
people have always supported background checks, for example, but that
doesn't mean if somebody doesn't support it as a candidate,
they're going to vote that person out of office. And
so part of the trick is how can you create
(13:39):
this into a wedge issue which is not the same
as supporting it in a poll. So that's very important
Number one.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Important.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Number two is a lot of these things are wedge
issues for Republicans but not for Democrats. And so, for example,
overwhelmingly Republicans will vote on gun issues, but Democrats, you know,
you ask them what's your key voting issue, and it'll
give you twenty different answers. As it's harder to mobilize
around these kind of polls. When I see Republicans all
(14:08):
support something, I get much more concerned because it's like, man,
we're in trouble.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And then the third is.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
The Republicans have created a system that's immune to popular opinion.
So one hundred percent of people could support a lot
of these things, and yet because of the super majority
jerimandering that's happened over the past couple of decades, which
we're just now beginning to ship way up, but it
took them fifty years to get there. One hundred people,
one hundred percent of people could support something, and it
(14:36):
doesn't mean anybody is going to lose the election. And
so to me, those are the meta points. I'm happy
to dig down into the specific gun points, which I
think are pretty interesting, but I think those are the
big metapoints.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
You know, I want to talk about the mobilization of
a new kind of group of candidates. Right when you're
talking about the Covenant moms, the moms of those students
who were either killed or affected right by a school
shooting happening there, as well as the waffle house, which
(15:09):
you cover in your new book, What We've Become. I wonder, again,
just digging into kind of the gender divide right and
this idea that you have two issues that I think
are really important issues to women and two progressives, which
is abortion, access to abortion and gun safety. And when
(15:30):
we look at abortion, I think that what's most surprising
to me is that I believe that Republicans thought that
they will have a slam dung in terms of overturning
Roe v. Wade, and then everyone just kind of going
quietly into the night when if people were saying, because
what they've said in this poll, they were pro life
(15:50):
until the Dobs decision was overturned, and now they're pro choice.
So I'm curious as to I'm going to use a
word that is the all always used in the negative,
but I actually think that we need to reclaim it.
What is it?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Okay, you're going to say, you're going to say diversity.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
No, that diversity. I was going to say, what is it?
Speaker 2 (16:17):
It's going to be something about the alliance that keeps
us all together?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
No, I'm going to go with radicalization. And I think,
yeah that I think that, you know, the more that
these school shootings happen in communities that think that they
are insulated or protected from these types of shootings, which
(16:41):
we've seen more and more happen in suburbs. I believe
that this Covenant School was one of the first religious
schools that we've seen it happen, although we've seen shootings
at synagogues and at churches and this abortion issue. I'm
just curious for you because again, we saw mothers be
thrown out of the state House for holding up a sign,
(17:02):
right for doing things like that. So what do you
make of this kind of this radicalization that I think
is happening with more women seeking to run for public
office and more women essentially on the front lines, which
they largely have been. But I'm specifically kind of talking
(17:22):
about white women here. Black women have always been on
the front lines of marches in protests, but you're seeing
it happen now with white women who have largely aligned
themselves with the Republican Party.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, we'll have to see how it matters electorally. And
so I think what we're seeing is an important movement,
right And the question is, when you use the term
radical is the radicalization that that they are switching parties?
Is it that they are rethinking things? I mean, I'll
tell you that from the it seems pretty obvious just
(17:57):
take five minutes on social media. The Republican strategy is
to make Dobbs old news, to say, oh, yeah, that's
the latest. Thank people are tired of that. We're seeing
in some elections, some of the elections that were yesterday
as we record this, that some people who were totally
totally pro choice didn't win just based on that issue
in places like Oregon and other places and so. But
(18:22):
the other thing is what's coming next. So the question
is we'll be able to mobilize people on November or
will there be many other issues which are you know,
look over here, look over here, look over here, or
will we be united? Now I can say that I've
interviewed Republicans for a long time and they were unbelievably
united about pro life. Like I mean, I would interview
(18:44):
people on the ground in the middle of nowhere who
like that was their voting issue. And Democrats need their
voters to just vote on this issue and not based
on divisions about about Gaza for example, or not divisions thinks.
So the question is the question here is will the
Democrats will be able to mobilize a coalition that will
vote on this as a wedge issue?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
In light of all the other issues.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
About Gaza, about policing, about capitalism, about all these kind
of things. If that's the case, Democrats win. And I
think the stakes are pretty darn high for a lot
of reasons. I mean, Trump, you know, the guy who
had the first Reichick advertisement the other day, has said
in an interview kind of hinted that that regulations are
(19:28):
coming for contraception for IVF obviously, and all these things.
So Dobbs is just the beginning of what could happen
under Alito and Thomas and and in the Supreme Court.
And so the question really that I have for you
is will the Democrats be able to unify and mobilize
Because polls like Tennessee show a possible way forward. They
(19:49):
actually don't show it for guns, right, if you dig
down into that data. For guns, it's really divided about stuff,
except for as always, should mentally ill people be full taxes? Guy,
That's always the thing that people always agree on. But
they're divided about guns. For teachers, they're divided about I think.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
They're also divided on what constitutes of mental illness.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I'm saying, like, for me,
the gun, the gun the gun. Honestly, looking at the
date of the gun the gun answer was not super surprising,
except that I know that they're different. There are different
political agendas right now, and I think if depending on
how the election turns out and who shows up, that issue.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Could potentially shift.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
You'd never know if if the minute Republicans start losing
on an issue in a gerimander area, that's when all
of a sudden you'll see the change. But I think, really,
I think that the Democrats and best bad is mobilizing
around the really justifiable real fear. I mean, Trump is
looking at the birth control pill and looking at obviously
IVF for that was not a mistake, and things like that.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And so.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I guess the question I have for you is knowing
everything you know and thinking about this tennessee pull as
one example of why that might be this strategy, But
there are many other strategies, some of which are exactly
against unifying Democrats across ideology, and I think a lot
of people that I know can't decide whether they want
(21:11):
to support the Democrats or quote unquote burn the Democrats down.
Under the fantasy that a more leftist, radical Democratic party
would emerge in its stead and so I guess the
question is do you see this as an issue that
Democrats could mobilize around in a coherent way that would
sway the election.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I think that Democrats need to get over the idea
that they need to one hundred percent love or support
all of the things that a candidate supports. I think
that we need to move away from this idea that
if I am aligned with Biden on democracy, on abortion,
that like, because I am not aligned with him as
(21:52):
it pertains to Gaza, and you know, and let's say
the economy, then that means I'm not going to vote
for him. But I think that folks need to start
to understand that where we are is do we want
the opportunity to continue to protest and fight for a
better country or do we want that to be one
of the less rights that are taken away? Right? Because
(22:15):
I can continue, I would be happy, right if folks
are like, well, you know, I swallow the pill and
I vote for Biden, but we're getting out and protesting,
you know, the inauguration, go with God. I'll be on
the front lines with you to protest at inauguration. If
in fact, the inauguration is for Joe Biden. But what
folks need to I think that they need to wrap
(22:35):
their minds around is that we're never going to align
one hundred percent of the time on all of the issues.
But are we willing to give up our democracy? Right?
And in with this with the fantasy that not voting
for Joe Biden is going to be the thumb in
the face to the Democratic Party as opposed to the
end of our democracy. So I think that, like, these
(22:56):
are real things that that are happening. I think that
with this poll, the Biden administration does have the opportunity
to kind of rally around this idea, which I think
that they're doing. The place that I do believe that
they're doing a good job is around abortion, Like is
keeping that in the news. But we also have to
understand Republicans are keeping it in the news. You have
(23:17):
Florida that just put in place their six week abortion ban, right.
You have states like Alabama and your state of Tennessee
and all of these places that are tinkering with IVF.
You have Virginia where Governor Younkin just vetoed the right
to access to contraception right. So they're the ones that
(23:39):
are keeping this in the news. So it's up to
Democrats to pound the pavement and say, in this election,
you may need to be a single issue voter because
they're not done with reproductive freedom, with just abortion. They're
coming for every single thing. So what happens to women
and people with uteruses in this country if they no
(23:59):
longer or have access to contraception? I mean, honestly, like
what happens?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, no, we become I mean, if you want to
play it out, you know, the agenda is, it's very
transparent and it's very terrifying. I mean, just look at you.
You read that Project twenty twenty five thing and deporting
a ton of people and creating basically of labor underclass
of Americans who then will do that labor. It's not
(24:28):
going to work out really well for people who you know.
I think we need to get there. I think the
threat is very serious and very real, and the question
is how do you message that given I mean, there
are just so many, so many potential scary areas to
drive around right now. I mean I've been following really
(24:48):
closely the elections yesterday, Progressives across the board relatively lost
to Centrists in a lot of places even like Portland.
So there was a risk thing in those elections of
going too far left for an election. Not that people
shouldn't go too far left, but in a place even
like Portland, which is a lefty paradise that you know,
(25:11):
things like safety and drugs and immigration and things like
that were centric centrist one and so and so I
think that's that's part of the thing, is how do
you bring centrists and progressives back together if that's the goal,
when the fantasy is like, you know, yeah, it's not
just own the Libs. It's like I'm going to own
the Centrists now, or I'm going to own the expre
(25:32):
mess or something like that. Like the idea of like
me against you is it's not just about two parties
and you've got to think like one party. And so
I think that's that's part of it, is like healing
these democratic rifts. But then the other part is, I
can't remember what state did you see this? There were
it was like a massive portion of undecided. They didn't
vote for Biden, they voted for undecided. But it wasn't
(25:54):
people voting protesting Gaza. It was people protesting something else.
That was a a much more far right position in
the Democratic Party. So now a bunch of other candidates
electors are going to the Democratic Party not being committed
to Biden also, but they're not doing it because of
gods that they're doing it because of I can't remember
some other.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I can't remember what the issue is.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I mean, no disrespect anybody, but and so the the
Democratic Convention is going to have protests, yeah, it's going to,
but all these different undecided voters and all these kind
of things. So I don't know, I mean, I just
feel like we should, like with respect everybody. I love,
just frigging roofing myself and everybody else and like get
us all on the same page and then, you know,
(26:38):
or something like. It's just the amount of like not
just real discord. I'm not trying to take away from it.
But also this kind of chaos just serves the Republicans.
And so yeah, sorry.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
That was that was that was a rant. But I'm
just feeling frustrated.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
No, as we close out, Like, I believe in everybody's
right to protest, I believe in everybody's right to you know,
utilize uh these you know, primaries, local elections to have
their voices heard. But I need people that as we
get to November, they get their shit together and recognize
that like, we're not going to have that right to
continue to protest, We're not going to have workers' rights
(27:13):
and protections. We're going to have an underclass, We're going
to have a subjugated female population. And if you think
that things are bad now, I assure you they can
get worse under the United Reich, which is what the
MAGA Republicans want. We'll leave it there today. My friend
Jonathan Safe travels to Hawaii and we'll talk to you
(27:35):
when you're on the ground there.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I will next next week, I'll if anybody wants to
be there not I'll hold up a pineapple next week
when we're talking.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
That is it for me today, Dear friends on willk
F as always Power to the people and to all
the people. Power, get woke and stay work is spot
Host
Danielle Moodie
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