June 24, 2024 • 28 mins
We are in the hottest part of hell - depending on where you're living, you may be feeling that literally - but GLSEN executive director Melanie Willingham-Jaggers joins to discuss why it's so important to believe in and fight for a better future.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, Peeves, and welcome to ok F Daily with
Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
you know, as I record this today, I'm certain that
you have seen the news of what is happening in Louisiana,
(00:33):
and it is the State of Louisiana. Governor Landry has
decided that he wants to be Dysantis light, I guess
or Dysantis tough for this most Southern Dassantis. I don't
fucking know.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
But he's passed.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
He signed a bill that would require that every classroom
in Louisiana's public schools show the Ten Commandment. This is
not about educating kids. These people don't give a fuck
about children. It is all about their way to own
the Libs. And since the bill was signed, ACLU has
(01:15):
said that they are going to sue, and of course
Landry welcomes being sued because it's going to have his
name in the headlines, because that's what this is about
for Republicans. And the fact is is that in ACLU's
post on social media about them preparing to sue the
State of Louisiana, they said public schools are not religious schools.
(01:39):
You don't get to put press your religion on other people.
If you want your kids the only thing that you
want them to be able to read is the Bible,
and you want them to follow the ten Commandments, and
that is the most important thing to you, then enroll
them in a religious fucking school. That is your choice.
(02:04):
But if I'm sending a child to public school, I
want them to get an education that prepares them to
be global citizens, that prepares them to be critical thinkers
in the workplace, that prepares them to be good people,
that prepares them to ask questions right, not one where
one kind of religion is pressed upon them. America is
(02:30):
not a Christian nation. It is a nation that is
filled with a lot of fucking people from all over
the world. That used to be a point of pride,
it is now a point of contention. People used to
flock to this country because of the opportunities that it
(02:52):
afforded and the freedoms that it afforded people. And now
I see more people in my comments section looking for
other places to live, People being forced to move out
of their home states in order to give birth, in
order to educate their kids, in order for their kids
(03:13):
to feel safe from bullying and harassing, not just from
their own peers, but from the administration and from the
fucking governors of these red states. It's appalling, it's ridiculous.
It's shit that was litigated back in the sixties and
the seventies where we stopped allowing prayer in school because
(03:34):
guess what if I'm an atheist or agnostic, or I'm
Muslim or any myriad of religions, are you allowing me
to pray the way that I want to pray in school?
Are you dictating to me how I'm going to pray?
If the Ten Commandments mean something to you, it doesn't
mean something to me. Again, you can do whatever it
(03:54):
is that you want with your child, put them in
schools or homeschool them in places that live up to
your moral compass, but that is not the place for
public education. It is about recognizing the needs of the public,
not one community, class group, or race. Coming up next
(04:17):
on today's WOKF, I am in conversation with Melanie Willingham Jaggers,
who is the CEO of Glisten, the only organization in
the country that focuses on creating safe, stable, uplifting environments
for LGBTQ youth in schools, and so Melanie and I
(04:38):
get into a very rich conversation about the myriad of
anti LGBTQ and anti trans bills that have come out
and what the movement is up to next, folks, I
am very happy to welcome back to WOKF Daily the
(04:58):
executive director of Glisten, Melanie Willingham Jaggers, to join us
as we do our Pride coverage for the month and
we get the low down on all things LGBTQ.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Plus.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You know, Melanie that I talk about education a lot
on my show because I'm a former teacher, former lobbyist
for education policy work, and I believe that education matters.
I also think it's the reason why the opposition is
banning books and firing teachers and shutting down libraries, because
(05:33):
they too know how fundamental education is to a functional democracy.
You at Glisten focus on creating educational environments that are safe,
that are uplifting for our LGBTQ youth, and just recently,
the Biden administration has put forth more guidance around doing
(05:55):
what they can to support LGBTQ youth than there are
six states that have said yeah, now We're good, We're okay.
We don't care about them, Melanie, A happy pride to you.
And what what do you even begin begin to take
on the behemoth that is the attacks on LGBTQ plus
(06:17):
a youth in our schools.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah? No, absolutely, And you know, the good news and
the bad news keeps coming. Right. So, the last I
heard is actually up to ten states who have moved
forward and gotten injunctions on Title nine implementation and rollout. Right.
So these are states, largely in the South and the Midwest,
who have gone to court and said we need your
(06:40):
help to make sure that our right to discriminate against
children in a system where we require them to be
is not infringed. And the court said, you got it.
So you know, the fight continues. As I understand that
folks are teeing up for a Supreme Court fight on
Title nine on a shorter timeline than usual. And what
we're being faced with is really I think we have
(07:03):
the benefit of seeing exactly what the opposition wants to do. Right.
They are not slow walking, they are not pretending, they're
not writing in footnotes. They are putting everything they want
to do as a headline. They are being very clear,
and I think that the job for folks on our side,
and our side is the side that believes in democracy,
believes that children should be able to go to school,
(07:25):
both free from the encumbrances of discrimination, but also supported
right by actual supports. What does it mean to see
them as young people, to see them as people who
are part of communities, who have histories, and who are
vital and contributing members of our society now and in
the future. We at Lisson believe that education is the
(07:46):
cornerstone of democracy. You said as much yourself, and I
think our opposition understands that to be true as well,
which is why they are attacking public education generally speaking,
and using queer and trans kids as the boogeyman face
to put on it, but are generally an overall attacking
American democracy. And so when we have an educated populace,
(08:06):
we are unfit for authoritarianism, We're unfit for fascism, and
they know that and we know that. So that's where
the that's where we are right that's the battle that
we're in right now at Glisten. We continue to work
with the current administration in order to make sure that
as much can be that can be done in this moment,
can be done. And frankly, we've had four years to
(08:27):
get a lot of stuff done, and I wish we
would have gotten more done. And you know, I hear
the arguments that people are doing what they can and
also you know, there is actually no excuse for not
showing up for and not delivering the most you can
for our young people. And glisten, you know, our work
is both We do both policy advocacy, but really our
(08:47):
bread and butter is working with young people, working with educators,
and working in communities. And so that has never stopped
on our part, right whether it's five hundred and sixteen
anti LGBTQ plus bills introduced this year across the country,
we continue to understand that it is the people who
have the power, and our work continues to be to
connect with our folks to ensure that we are building
(09:10):
safety with and for each other, and also pushing at
every level of intervention in the education system to make
sure that at every single level we are putting the
policies and practices in place to make sure that every
young person's lived experience in schools is as good as
it can be.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
You know, one of the things that I think is
important and I would like you to enlighten our listeners,
is that we see a lot of headlines, and I
think that when we see a lot of headlines, those
headlines can oftentimes become white noise right where we see
these headlines that say there have been five hundred plus
anti LGBTQ bills that have been approved and are introduced
(09:53):
over the last year. So we hear, okay, it's bad,
but we don't actually get a real, true, on the
ground understanding of what it is like to, let's say,
I don't know, be a middle schooler who is queer
living in the Midwest in a hostile state, Like, what
(10:14):
does it feel like to go to school and have
no safe space and not only have young people your
peers that are bullying you, but an entire administration that
has the ability to bully you. So can you kind
of give us some context to the behind the scoop
to the headlines that we see of real young people.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah. Absolutely, I actually want to cover a couple points
on this specific question. One I want to lift up
for everyone listening that yes, five hundred and sixteen anti
LGBTQ plus bills were introduced. That doesn't mean that they
were pass right. And actually what the reality is is
that Listen, along with other organizations and other movement partners
(10:59):
and collaborate have worked tirelessly right to defeat more than
ninety percent of these bills. So just so we know, right, yes,
terrible bills coming in an avalanche of bad ideas number one. Two,
Listen along with others in coalition, have defeated the vast
majority of these bills. And three I just want us
to and this is the official recommendation, right, which is
(11:21):
to guard your joy. Right. One of what happens is
that you know everybody's terrible idea, they can call into
a news they understand. Let me say it this way.
Our opposition are a bunch of stut queens, not in
a good way, not in a good way, stuck queen.
Let me just say that I personally love a stuck queen,
(11:41):
but these bulls are stunt queens in the worst way. Right.
What they understand is actually that when you can bombard
people with terrible news, when you can lift up introduce
a bill, even if you know there's not a snowballs
chance in hell that it gets past what you are
doing is making sure that people who are impacted by
that proposed law feel the attack right on their spirit,
(12:02):
on their mind, and their attention, and is added to
a list of a thing of the things that we
all worry about, right, So that's number one. Like stunt
queens on the other side, have a bunch of terrible ideas,
they write them down, they get introduced, and then suddenly
we have a media ecosystem that feels obligated to report
on it, and as a result, we are overwhelmed by
the bad news, even though the part that is not
(12:25):
reported is that we are winning on so many of
these levels. We are beating back so many of these
terrible bills. Any one bill that gets passed is a
bill too many, and so I don't want to we
are not winning. We're not batt in a thousand, but
we're batten, but we're batten pretty close, right. And the
other thing is that so many of these are copy
and paste bills, and so what works in back states, right,
(12:45):
just bashtrack it in another state. And that is I
think also their core of vulnerability. Right, once we figure
out what actually is illegal or doesn't work or whatever
in one bill, it really points toward the weakness and
all of them, and a thing that is often not
is a critical win that our movement has gotten in
Florida right by gutting that don't say gay legislation, fundamentally
(13:07):
gutting it. The core pieces have been struck down in court.
That is not getting a lot of news right. That
also means there's significant vulnerabilities in these other copy and
paste states right where people just are passing on bad ideas.
That's part one, right in terms of like what's happening
with slatively, I think part two really is around like
(13:29):
what's the effects on young people at this moment is
having And again it's like, you know, not to use
a big old word, but really thinking about the psychosphere, right,
the economy of our attention and who is influencing it.
So you know, I'm going to go ahead and say
the thing, which is to say that we've got a
lot of terrible actors internally in our own country, and
(13:51):
we also have folks who are over We are all
washed over every single day with headlines some of which
are true, some of which are not right. There's a
way in which the fake news and the kind of
and what terrible information is kind of coming at us
in order to distract us, discourage us, get us to
panic or freak out, or lose hope or stop trying.
(14:14):
We are in you know, several months out, a couple
months out from the general election. We're in the hottest
part of hell right now. When it comes to.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Tell me about the hottest part of hell, because I'm
like a, I don't have enough sunscreen. There is not
enough internal air conditioning to be dealing with Dante's in
fucking inferno that we are living in right now.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Listen, you know, my hope is that we get to
the suburbs of Hell as soon as possible. All, yes,
we don't have to be right here, which is where
we are right now, but in this but to say that,
like we're in this moment where things are hot and
getting hotter, and that our attention is so deeply important
for us to guard our join not only for ourselves,
(14:55):
but in order for us to provide context and clarity
and truth to those around us who don't have as
much power as we do, as much access to information,
as much ability to you know, parse through what is
true what is false. It's really important that we actually
get in the business in our own networks and helping
to fortify ourselves in each other, because one thing that
(15:19):
will guarantee defeat and I don't mean and I don't
mean kind of electorally, but I mean kind of in
our hearts right where our movement is able to go
is if we think that we are losing. And let
me just say to all the listeners, you don't fight
this hard to destroy, to erase, to disempower a community
that doesn't have any power, right, Why would you erase
(15:42):
history that doesn't matter? Why would you ban books that
aren't elaminating and liberating in their both in their existence
and their impact. And so the thing I want to
make sure your listeners here is the I want to
remind us of our own power and that yes, we
have to act on it, and we have to be
with others in our action on our path. But like,
let's just reset the frame for a second. You don't
(16:03):
pass five hundred and sixteen bills, or you don't introduce
five hundred and sixteen bills around someone's identity if you
aren't afraid of who they are and actually what they
do in community right and with power and with inclusion
and in public life. So I want us to be
grounded in our own power and the fact that we
are actually turning the tide and winning.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And I appreciate that so much. I appreciate several of
the points that you made, particularly around fortifying and centering
your joy right, which I think I talk about a
lot on this show because I tell people that they
need to take breaks so that they don't have breakdowns.
Right Like, you don't need to be in the twenty
four hour news cycle twenty four hours a day. It
is unhealthy for you to do.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
It's the same thing I say about doom scrolling on
social media. You do not need to like and click
and share every horrific story in order to show how
conscious you are, how woke you are. Two injustices. You
need to safeguard yourself. But I also think that it
is incredibly important to lift up the winds because what
ends up happening, I think, Melanie, is that the media,
(17:04):
corporate media, does a wonderful job at telling us all
the terrible things that are happening, and then when there
are fight backs or when there are losses that happen
on the right side, somehow the media is nowhere to
be found like they were all over Florida. Every single
piece of legislation that DeSantis is pushing out is a
front story news. But what's not front story is who
(17:27):
is pushing back against him and actually winning. And so
I really appreciate you bringing that to the forefront because
it's easy too, I think when you were inundated with
this cycle of despair to become really hopeless and to
say that I might as well not fight, I might
as well not do the thing, because what does it matter?
And I think that you know, you tell me. But
(17:49):
what I have recognized over the last you know, eight
to nine years under Trumps and in particular, is how
vital local elections are, how vital school boards are, whether
or not you have a child that is in said
school or not. That these people are looking out at
(18:11):
every single touch point that they can have to move
their ball to their side. And I think that we
have always been so laser focused on the federal level
and don't pay attention to the power that has had
at these local levels, where when these pieces of legislation
are coming out in city councils, that folks are able
(18:32):
to say not today, satan and knock it back, and
so talk to us about the important ways that you
all at Glisten and with coalition partners are seeding ground
in places that we don't often pay attention to and
that we overlook, but we recognize that no impacts start
(18:53):
small and then it spreads out.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, that's right, and I appreciate your framing on this.
You know, there are it's like sixteen thousand school districts
across the country, right, so when you think about our
American school system, really you're thinking about sixteen thousand different
systems that roll up kind of on the front line,
that roll up into a big old pipeline that goes
(19:16):
through the state and then goes up into the federal level.
And what is true is that the other side has
succeeded in making every single classroom affront for this culture
war that they have started and are waging without any remorse,
right using our children as ponds in this foolishness, right
(19:36):
that they're doing, which again, let me remind the folks
who are listening, is actually not about queer kids. It's
now anti democratic future. It's a vision of anti democratic
future for our country. And they figured out where coalitional
solidarity is soft in this country is around queer and
trans issues, particularly trans issues, and frankly, there are major
(19:58):
publications in this country who holds significant responsibility for amplifying
the lies and the faulty transphobic logic of this side,
laundering it as a reasonable part of the public discourse
when it has never been and it absolutely is not
and won't ever be. So I think that there's a
(20:19):
lot of complexity here which is around how these extreme
far right ideas around gender, as one example, have been laundered.
Not only is the bad news amplified by corporate media,
but it's also laundered in a way has been laundered
over the last number of years, in a way that
is truly disgusting, and that I think that folks will
(20:41):
absolutely history will not look kindly on their actions and
they will absolutely need to be held account before. So
that's I just want to say that. I mean, I
think that the other piece here is that again Glisten,
we are thirty four years old this year, Happy birthday. Right,
I'll take being in my mid thirties again. You know,
(21:01):
one thing that we understand at Glisten is the education
system right in every single point of leverage they are
in and where there are points of intervention, where there
are points of leverage, and what pieces of leverage work
in those at those points. And so one thing I'm
actually really excited about that's ongoing right now that's current,
is that we have launched our National School Climate Survey,
(21:23):
which is a survey of young people who are in
schools in this country grades eight and above, so eight
to twelve, to see what their experiences are. This goes
back to your initial question, but I think leads in
here as well, right, which is to say, both what
is like, what is happening the good and the bad? Right?
What are you experiencing the bad and the good. And
(21:43):
it's from this research that we have come up with
our solutions over the last since nineteen ninety nine we
started the survey. And so all this to say that
the work to find solutions always starts with the people
who are most impacted by the system, and so listens.
Work in this way continues by capturing seeking to capture, hey, hey, kids,
(22:04):
what's going on right grades eight and up? What are
you all experiencing? What could help and what needs to
be different. So there's that that we're gathering data from
young people because data is the language that systems speak,
and so we speak to the systems and the language
they understand, and that information comes directly from young people.
The other piece of it is that we continue to
(22:25):
work with educators, right, We've got educators all over the country.
We had one point five million downloads this year alone
of our materials. So there's a way in which it's
like our opposition is going hard. We have a level
of relationships and credibility within the system that is so
deeply resilient, and so our people continue to come to
(22:45):
us for the latest and greatest. We continue to train
folks all over this country in schools and school districts
and institutions right and other associations on best practices for
making sure that your classroom and also your school community
is safe and affirming for our kids. And so you know,
they're going hard, but we're going harder. And the thing
(23:08):
is is that there's actually more of us than there
are of them. Right. They've got different levels of infrastructure
on their side, and we've got more people on our side.
So our work continues, and you know, Kate, stop won't stop.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Last question for you is you know a question that
I ask often, and particularly of like my queer colleagues
and friends, which is, you know, how do you stay
hopeful in this moment? Like how are you continuing to
center joy in your own life and continuing to like
foster pride not just in June, but every month of
(23:45):
the year.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
You know, I just got to I've been on the
road a lot this month. This is like when the
movement puts all of the queer people that exist like
on this like treadmill and just like turns the speed
up to a million. And so, you know, myself and
so many other leaders and activists are just doing so much.
And the one thing that I will say that has
been so amazing about this first two weeks of Pride
(24:09):
that I've been all over the place. I've literally been
all over the country. And one of the places I
was at was Albuquerque and we marched with the contingent
in their Pride parade, which you know, if you had
to march in a Pride parade in June, I might
not suggest being an Albuquerque because it is really hot
in Abuquerque. Yeah, we all had to say that we marched.
(24:32):
Our contingent was you know, one hundred people, right, I
think that the thing that the thing about this moment
is that all of us are so connected to everyone
all the time. We are inundated with information all the time.
We are inundated by a individually right through a device
on our phone that connects us to many other people
(24:54):
right on the other side of that screen. My recommendation
to guarding your joy, to kind of staying grounding, keeping
sane in this moment is to connect with people. So
even though I'm tired and I got so much laundry
to do right or is having had the time to
be hot in the streets of Albuquerque, you know, and
in conversation over a long weekend with folks there in
(25:16):
a community with a lot of folks there, to say like,
how are you doing, how is it going, what helped me?
How we how can we support? And where are your wins?
Because there are wins happening. And I think that again,
when we rely on someone else to tell us what's happening,
what we hear is shaped by the filter of that source.
And when various sources are have proven and continue to
(25:37):
prove to be unreliable and not invested in us understanding
our power, then we have to go to other sources,
and my constant recommendation is to find your people. Always
find your people. When you are feeling discouraged or down,
go find your people. Go find folks who are like
you or who are different than you, who are facing
(25:58):
the world in the same way that you are, and
listen to what they are experiencing, but also also get
with them to strategize around what could and should be
different and find your joy. The revolution will continue on,
and they better be dancing and they're better be glitter, right,
And there's also work in spreadsheets and emails. But if
we don't feel like we are able to live our
(26:19):
lives until we get out of the hottest part of hell, well,
then the other side has already won, right We actually
solid part of our liberation, part of our coalitional leadership
and movement work is serious and it is fun and
it is everything in between. If we can only be
in conflict and only be angry, they have already won
because our understanding what is possible on the other side
(26:42):
of this fight, on the other side of our victory
is going to be limited right by the emotions that
we're feeling right now. And if we don't keep practicing
our emotions of joy along with our emotions of outrage,
along with our emotions of this can happen under on
my watch, not in my name that too, But also
you have to find joy and connection and love, you know,
(27:03):
in this moment.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I appreciate that because I think that oftentimes I'm asked,
you know, to provide guidance and thoughts on you know,
how do people stay sane? What can I do? And
the guilt that is associated with wanting to step away
for a moment, But recognizing that your resistance can look
like a lot of different things. It does not have
to look like one thing. So I really appreciate you
(27:26):
saying that, and for making the time for wokaf in
your busy pride hamster wheel schedule. I deeply appreciate it,
and you.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Happy to do it and always happy to enjoy you.
Thanks for having we.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
That is it for me today, dear friends on wogay
f as always power to the people and to all
the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Good morning, Peeves, and welcome to ok F Daily with
Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
you know, as I record this today, I'm certain that
you have seen the news of what is happening in Louisiana,
(00:33):
and it is the State of Louisiana. Governor Landry has
decided that he wants to be Dysantis light, I guess
or Dysantis tough for this most Southern Dassantis. I don't
fucking know.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
But he's passed.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
He signed a bill that would require that every classroom
in Louisiana's public schools show the Ten Commandment. This is
not about educating kids. These people don't give a fuck
about children. It is all about their way to own
the Libs. And since the bill was signed, ACLU has
(01:15):
said that they are going to sue, and of course
Landry welcomes being sued because it's going to have his
name in the headlines, because that's what this is about
for Republicans. And the fact is is that in ACLU's
post on social media about them preparing to sue the
State of Louisiana, they said public schools are not religious schools.
(01:39):
You don't get to put press your religion on other people.
If you want your kids the only thing that you
want them to be able to read is the Bible,
and you want them to follow the ten Commandments, and
that is the most important thing to you, then enroll
them in a religious fucking school. That is your choice.
(02:04):
But if I'm sending a child to public school, I
want them to get an education that prepares them to
be global citizens, that prepares them to be critical thinkers
in the workplace, that prepares them to be good people,
that prepares them to ask questions right, not one where
one kind of religion is pressed upon them. America is
(02:30):
not a Christian nation. It is a nation that is
filled with a lot of fucking people from all over
the world. That used to be a point of pride,
it is now a point of contention. People used to
flock to this country because of the opportunities that it
(02:52):
afforded and the freedoms that it afforded people. And now
I see more people in my comments section looking for
other places to live, People being forced to move out
of their home states in order to give birth, in
order to educate their kids, in order for their kids
(03:13):
to feel safe from bullying and harassing, not just from
their own peers, but from the administration and from the
fucking governors of these red states. It's appalling, it's ridiculous.
It's shit that was litigated back in the sixties and
the seventies where we stopped allowing prayer in school because
(03:34):
guess what if I'm an atheist or agnostic, or I'm
Muslim or any myriad of religions, are you allowing me
to pray the way that I want to pray in school?
Are you dictating to me how I'm going to pray?
If the Ten Commandments mean something to you, it doesn't
mean something to me. Again, you can do whatever it
(03:54):
is that you want with your child, put them in
schools or homeschool them in places that live up to
your moral compass, but that is not the place for
public education. It is about recognizing the needs of the public,
not one community, class group, or race. Coming up next
(04:17):
on today's WOKF, I am in conversation with Melanie Willingham Jaggers,
who is the CEO of Glisten, the only organization in
the country that focuses on creating safe, stable, uplifting environments
for LGBTQ youth in schools, and so Melanie and I
(04:38):
get into a very rich conversation about the myriad of
anti LGBTQ and anti trans bills that have come out
and what the movement is up to next, folks, I
am very happy to welcome back to WOKF Daily the
(04:58):
executive director of Glisten, Melanie Willingham Jaggers, to join us
as we do our Pride coverage for the month and
we get the low down on all things LGBTQ.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Plus.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You know, Melanie that I talk about education a lot
on my show because I'm a former teacher, former lobbyist
for education policy work, and I believe that education matters.
I also think it's the reason why the opposition is
banning books and firing teachers and shutting down libraries, because
(05:33):
they too know how fundamental education is to a functional democracy.
You at Glisten focus on creating educational environments that are safe,
that are uplifting for our LGBTQ youth, and just recently,
the Biden administration has put forth more guidance around doing
(05:55):
what they can to support LGBTQ youth than there are
six states that have said yeah, now We're good, We're okay.
We don't care about them, Melanie, A happy pride to you.
And what what do you even begin begin to take
on the behemoth that is the attacks on LGBTQ plus
(06:17):
a youth in our schools.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah? No, absolutely, And you know, the good news and
the bad news keeps coming. Right. So, the last I
heard is actually up to ten states who have moved
forward and gotten injunctions on Title nine implementation and rollout. Right.
So these are states, largely in the South and the Midwest,
who have gone to court and said we need your
(06:40):
help to make sure that our right to discriminate against
children in a system where we require them to be
is not infringed. And the court said, you got it.
So you know, the fight continues. As I understand that
folks are teeing up for a Supreme Court fight on
Title nine on a shorter timeline than usual. And what
we're being faced with is really I think we have
(07:03):
the benefit of seeing exactly what the opposition wants to do. Right.
They are not slow walking, they are not pretending, they're
not writing in footnotes. They are putting everything they want
to do as a headline. They are being very clear,
and I think that the job for folks on our side,
and our side is the side that believes in democracy,
believes that children should be able to go to school,
(07:25):
both free from the encumbrances of discrimination, but also supported
right by actual supports. What does it mean to see
them as young people, to see them as people who
are part of communities, who have histories, and who are
vital and contributing members of our society now and in
the future. We at Lisson believe that education is the
(07:46):
cornerstone of democracy. You said as much yourself, and I
think our opposition understands that to be true as well,
which is why they are attacking public education generally speaking,
and using queer and trans kids as the boogeyman face
to put on it, but are generally an overall attacking
American democracy. And so when we have an educated populace,
(08:06):
we are unfit for authoritarianism, We're unfit for fascism, and
they know that and we know that. So that's where
the that's where we are right that's the battle that
we're in right now at Glisten. We continue to work
with the current administration in order to make sure that
as much can be that can be done in this moment,
can be done. And frankly, we've had four years to
(08:27):
get a lot of stuff done, and I wish we
would have gotten more done. And you know, I hear
the arguments that people are doing what they can and
also you know, there is actually no excuse for not
showing up for and not delivering the most you can
for our young people. And glisten, you know, our work
is both We do both policy advocacy, but really our
(08:47):
bread and butter is working with young people, working with educators,
and working in communities. And so that has never stopped
on our part, right whether it's five hundred and sixteen
anti LGBTQ plus bills introduced this year across the country,
we continue to understand that it is the people who
have the power, and our work continues to be to
connect with our folks to ensure that we are building
(09:10):
safety with and for each other, and also pushing at
every level of intervention in the education system to make
sure that at every single level we are putting the
policies and practices in place to make sure that every
young person's lived experience in schools is as good as
it can be.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
You know, one of the things that I think is
important and I would like you to enlighten our listeners,
is that we see a lot of headlines, and I
think that when we see a lot of headlines, those
headlines can oftentimes become white noise right where we see
these headlines that say there have been five hundred plus
anti LGBTQ bills that have been approved and are introduced
(09:53):
over the last year. So we hear, okay, it's bad,
but we don't actually get a real, true, on the
ground understanding of what it is like to, let's say,
I don't know, be a middle schooler who is queer
living in the Midwest in a hostile state, Like, what
(10:14):
does it feel like to go to school and have
no safe space and not only have young people your
peers that are bullying you, but an entire administration that
has the ability to bully you. So can you kind
of give us some context to the behind the scoop
to the headlines that we see of real young people.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah. Absolutely, I actually want to cover a couple points
on this specific question. One I want to lift up
for everyone listening that yes, five hundred and sixteen anti
LGBTQ plus bills were introduced. That doesn't mean that they
were pass right. And actually what the reality is is
that Listen, along with other organizations and other movement partners
(10:59):
and collaborate have worked tirelessly right to defeat more than
ninety percent of these bills. So just so we know, right, yes,
terrible bills coming in an avalanche of bad ideas number one. Two,
Listen along with others in coalition, have defeated the vast
majority of these bills. And three I just want us
to and this is the official recommendation, right, which is
(11:21):
to guard your joy. Right. One of what happens is
that you know everybody's terrible idea, they can call into
a news they understand. Let me say it this way.
Our opposition are a bunch of stut queens, not in
a good way, not in a good way, stuck queen.
Let me just say that I personally love a stuck queen,
(11:41):
but these bulls are stunt queens in the worst way. Right.
What they understand is actually that when you can bombard
people with terrible news, when you can lift up introduce
a bill, even if you know there's not a snowballs
chance in hell that it gets past what you are
doing is making sure that people who are impacted by
that proposed law feel the attack right on their spirit,
(12:02):
on their mind, and their attention, and is added to
a list of a thing of the things that we
all worry about, right, So that's number one. Like stunt
queens on the other side, have a bunch of terrible ideas,
they write them down, they get introduced, and then suddenly
we have a media ecosystem that feels obligated to report
on it, and as a result, we are overwhelmed by
the bad news, even though the part that is not
(12:25):
reported is that we are winning on so many of
these levels. We are beating back so many of these
terrible bills. Any one bill that gets passed is a
bill too many, and so I don't want to we
are not winning. We're not batt in a thousand, but
we're batten, but we're batten pretty close, right. And the
other thing is that so many of these are copy
and paste bills, and so what works in back states, right,
(12:45):
just bashtrack it in another state. And that is I
think also their core of vulnerability. Right, once we figure
out what actually is illegal or doesn't work or whatever
in one bill, it really points toward the weakness and
all of them, and a thing that is often not
is a critical win that our movement has gotten in
Florida right by gutting that don't say gay legislation, fundamentally
(13:07):
gutting it. The core pieces have been struck down in court.
That is not getting a lot of news right. That
also means there's significant vulnerabilities in these other copy and
paste states right where people just are passing on bad ideas.
That's part one, right in terms of like what's happening
with slatively, I think part two really is around like
(13:29):
what's the effects on young people at this moment is
having And again it's like, you know, not to use
a big old word, but really thinking about the psychosphere, right,
the economy of our attention and who is influencing it.
So you know, I'm going to go ahead and say
the thing, which is to say that we've got a
lot of terrible actors internally in our own country, and
(13:51):
we also have folks who are over We are all
washed over every single day with headlines some of which
are true, some of which are not right. There's a
way in which the fake news and the kind of
and what terrible information is kind of coming at us
in order to distract us, discourage us, get us to
panic or freak out, or lose hope or stop trying.
(14:14):
We are in you know, several months out, a couple
months out from the general election. We're in the hottest
part of hell right now. When it comes to.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Tell me about the hottest part of hell, because I'm
like a, I don't have enough sunscreen. There is not
enough internal air conditioning to be dealing with Dante's in
fucking inferno that we are living in right now.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Listen, you know, my hope is that we get to
the suburbs of Hell as soon as possible. All, yes,
we don't have to be right here, which is where
we are right now, but in this but to say that,
like we're in this moment where things are hot and
getting hotter, and that our attention is so deeply important
for us to guard our join not only for ourselves,
(14:55):
but in order for us to provide context and clarity
and truth to those around us who don't have as
much power as we do, as much access to information,
as much ability to you know, parse through what is
true what is false. It's really important that we actually
get in the business in our own networks and helping
to fortify ourselves in each other, because one thing that
(15:19):
will guarantee defeat and I don't mean and I don't
mean kind of electorally, but I mean kind of in
our hearts right where our movement is able to go
is if we think that we are losing. And let
me just say to all the listeners, you don't fight
this hard to destroy, to erase, to disempower a community
that doesn't have any power, right, Why would you erase
(15:42):
history that doesn't matter? Why would you ban books that
aren't elaminating and liberating in their both in their existence
and their impact. And so the thing I want to
make sure your listeners here is the I want to
remind us of our own power and that yes, we
have to act on it, and we have to be
with others in our action on our path. But like,
let's just reset the frame for a second. You don't
(16:03):
pass five hundred and sixteen bills, or you don't introduce
five hundred and sixteen bills around someone's identity if you
aren't afraid of who they are and actually what they
do in community right and with power and with inclusion
and in public life. So I want us to be
grounded in our own power and the fact that we
are actually turning the tide and winning.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And I appreciate that so much. I appreciate several of
the points that you made, particularly around fortifying and centering
your joy right, which I think I talk about a
lot on this show because I tell people that they
need to take breaks so that they don't have breakdowns.
Right Like, you don't need to be in the twenty
four hour news cycle twenty four hours a day. It
is unhealthy for you to do.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
It's the same thing I say about doom scrolling on
social media. You do not need to like and click
and share every horrific story in order to show how
conscious you are, how woke you are. Two injustices. You
need to safeguard yourself. But I also think that it
is incredibly important to lift up the winds because what
ends up happening, I think, Melanie, is that the media,
(17:04):
corporate media, does a wonderful job at telling us all
the terrible things that are happening, and then when there
are fight backs or when there are losses that happen
on the right side, somehow the media is nowhere to
be found like they were all over Florida. Every single
piece of legislation that DeSantis is pushing out is a
front story news. But what's not front story is who
(17:27):
is pushing back against him and actually winning. And so
I really appreciate you bringing that to the forefront because
it's easy too, I think when you were inundated with
this cycle of despair to become really hopeless and to
say that I might as well not fight, I might
as well not do the thing, because what does it matter?
And I think that you know, you tell me. But
(17:49):
what I have recognized over the last you know, eight
to nine years under Trumps and in particular, is how
vital local elections are, how vital school boards are, whether
or not you have a child that is in said
school or not. That these people are looking out at
(18:11):
every single touch point that they can have to move
their ball to their side. And I think that we
have always been so laser focused on the federal level
and don't pay attention to the power that has had
at these local levels, where when these pieces of legislation
are coming out in city councils, that folks are able
(18:32):
to say not today, satan and knock it back, and
so talk to us about the important ways that you
all at Glisten and with coalition partners are seeding ground
in places that we don't often pay attention to and
that we overlook, but we recognize that no impacts start
(18:53):
small and then it spreads out.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, that's right, and I appreciate your framing on this.
You know, there are it's like sixteen thousand school districts
across the country, right, so when you think about our
American school system, really you're thinking about sixteen thousand different
systems that roll up kind of on the front line,
that roll up into a big old pipeline that goes
(19:16):
through the state and then goes up into the federal level.
And what is true is that the other side has
succeeded in making every single classroom affront for this culture
war that they have started and are waging without any remorse,
right using our children as ponds in this foolishness, right
(19:36):
that they're doing, which again, let me remind the folks
who are listening, is actually not about queer kids. It's
now anti democratic future. It's a vision of anti democratic
future for our country. And they figured out where coalitional
solidarity is soft in this country is around queer and
trans issues, particularly trans issues, and frankly, there are major
(19:58):
publications in this country who holds significant responsibility for amplifying
the lies and the faulty transphobic logic of this side,
laundering it as a reasonable part of the public discourse
when it has never been and it absolutely is not
and won't ever be. So I think that there's a
(20:19):
lot of complexity here which is around how these extreme
far right ideas around gender, as one example, have been laundered.
Not only is the bad news amplified by corporate media,
but it's also laundered in a way has been laundered
over the last number of years, in a way that
is truly disgusting, and that I think that folks will
(20:41):
absolutely history will not look kindly on their actions and
they will absolutely need to be held account before. So
that's I just want to say that. I mean, I
think that the other piece here is that again Glisten,
we are thirty four years old this year, Happy birthday. Right,
I'll take being in my mid thirties again. You know,
(21:01):
one thing that we understand at Glisten is the education
system right in every single point of leverage they are
in and where there are points of intervention, where there
are points of leverage, and what pieces of leverage work
in those at those points. And so one thing I'm
actually really excited about that's ongoing right now that's current,
is that we have launched our National School Climate Survey,
(21:23):
which is a survey of young people who are in
schools in this country grades eight and above, so eight
to twelve, to see what their experiences are. This goes
back to your initial question, but I think leads in
here as well, right, which is to say, both what
is like, what is happening the good and the bad? Right?
What are you experiencing the bad and the good. And
(21:43):
it's from this research that we have come up with
our solutions over the last since nineteen ninety nine we
started the survey. And so all this to say that
the work to find solutions always starts with the people
who are most impacted by the system, and so listens.
Work in this way continues by capturing seeking to capture, hey, hey, kids,
(22:04):
what's going on right grades eight and up? What are
you all experiencing? What could help and what needs to
be different. So there's that that we're gathering data from
young people because data is the language that systems speak,
and so we speak to the systems and the language
they understand, and that information comes directly from young people.
The other piece of it is that we continue to
(22:25):
work with educators, right, We've got educators all over the country.
We had one point five million downloads this year alone
of our materials. So there's a way in which it's
like our opposition is going hard. We have a level
of relationships and credibility within the system that is so
deeply resilient, and so our people continue to come to
(22:45):
us for the latest and greatest. We continue to train
folks all over this country in schools and school districts
and institutions right and other associations on best practices for
making sure that your classroom and also your school community
is safe and affirming for our kids. And so you know,
they're going hard, but we're going harder. And the thing
(23:08):
is is that there's actually more of us than there
are of them. Right. They've got different levels of infrastructure
on their side, and we've got more people on our side.
So our work continues, and you know, Kate, stop won't stop.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Last question for you is you know a question that
I ask often, and particularly of like my queer colleagues
and friends, which is, you know, how do you stay
hopeful in this moment? Like how are you continuing to
center joy in your own life and continuing to like
foster pride not just in June, but every month of
(23:45):
the year.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
You know, I just got to I've been on the
road a lot this month. This is like when the
movement puts all of the queer people that exist like
on this like treadmill and just like turns the speed
up to a million. And so, you know, myself and
so many other leaders and activists are just doing so much.
And the one thing that I will say that has
been so amazing about this first two weeks of Pride
(24:09):
that I've been all over the place. I've literally been
all over the country. And one of the places I
was at was Albuquerque and we marched with the contingent
in their Pride parade, which you know, if you had
to march in a Pride parade in June, I might
not suggest being an Albuquerque because it is really hot
in Abuquerque. Yeah, we all had to say that we marched.
(24:32):
Our contingent was you know, one hundred people, right, I
think that the thing that the thing about this moment
is that all of us are so connected to everyone
all the time. We are inundated with information all the time.
We are inundated by a individually right through a device
on our phone that connects us to many other people
(24:54):
right on the other side of that screen. My recommendation
to guarding your joy, to kind of staying grounding, keeping
sane in this moment is to connect with people. So
even though I'm tired and I got so much laundry
to do right or is having had the time to
be hot in the streets of Albuquerque, you know, and
in conversation over a long weekend with folks there in
(25:16):
a community with a lot of folks there, to say like,
how are you doing, how is it going, what helped me?
How we how can we support? And where are your wins?
Because there are wins happening. And I think that again,
when we rely on someone else to tell us what's happening,
what we hear is shaped by the filter of that source.
And when various sources are have proven and continue to
(25:37):
prove to be unreliable and not invested in us understanding
our power, then we have to go to other sources,
and my constant recommendation is to find your people. Always
find your people. When you are feeling discouraged or down,
go find your people. Go find folks who are like
you or who are different than you, who are facing
(25:58):
the world in the same way that you are, and
listen to what they are experiencing, but also also get
with them to strategize around what could and should be
different and find your joy. The revolution will continue on,
and they better be dancing and they're better be glitter, right,
And there's also work in spreadsheets and emails. But if
we don't feel like we are able to live our
(26:19):
lives until we get out of the hottest part of hell, well,
then the other side has already won, right We actually
solid part of our liberation, part of our coalitional leadership
and movement work is serious and it is fun and
it is everything in between. If we can only be
in conflict and only be angry, they have already won
because our understanding what is possible on the other side
(26:42):
of this fight, on the other side of our victory
is going to be limited right by the emotions that
we're feeling right now. And if we don't keep practicing
our emotions of joy along with our emotions of outrage,
along with our emotions of this can happen under on
my watch, not in my name that too, But also
you have to find joy and connection and love, you know,
(27:03):
in this moment.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I appreciate that because I think that oftentimes I'm asked,
you know, to provide guidance and thoughts on you know,
how do people stay sane? What can I do? And
the guilt that is associated with wanting to step away
for a moment, But recognizing that your resistance can look
like a lot of different things. It does not have
to look like one thing. So I really appreciate you
(27:26):
saying that, and for making the time for wokaf in
your busy pride hamster wheel schedule. I deeply appreciate it,
and you.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Happy to do it and always happy to enjoy you.
Thanks for having we.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
That is it for me today, dear friends on wogay
f as always power to the people and to all
the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Host
Danielle Moodie
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