August 8, 2024 • 20 mins
Gillian Kane of Ipas joins Danielle to discuss how many cornerstones of the right wing extremist Project 2025 plan are already being enacted by global governments outside of the United States.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WOKF Daily with Meet
your Girl Daniel Moody. Pre Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
I'm taking a little bit of a respite before we
head into the craziness of convention at the end of August,
and so I'm leaving you, as always with some really
good interviews. Coming up on today's episode is my conversation
(00:36):
with Jillian Kin, who is the director of Global Policy
and Research at IPASS, the leading organization working to increase
access to sexual and reproductive healthcare globally. In this conversation, friends,
we talk about Project twenty twenty five and how Project
twenty twenty five is already underway in countries like Guatemala,
(00:58):
and what we can learn about how these conservative policies
are being tested outside of our borders. And you know,
while Donald Trump wants to distance himself from Project twenty
twenty five, while you know, they just fired one of
the leaders of Project twenty twenty five, and Trump campaign
(01:23):
wants to release a statement and say that it's disbanded.
We know that that is let me think about it, bullshit,
because they have no platform outside of that and they
can call it whatever the fuck name that they want
to call it, But the reality is this is what
Republicans want. And there is leaked audio that is now
going around of Kevin Roberts, who is the president of
(01:44):
the Heritage Foundation, who says that it's totally fine if
Donald Trump wants to distance himself publicly from Project twenty
twenty five. But guess what, they know what it is,
and so they're good to go with the fucking pr
game that they're trying to run on the American people.
Right now, all I have to say wants a liar,
always a liar, don't fall for the robodote. Coming up next,
(02:04):
my conversation with Jillian Kane, Folks. I am very happy
to welcome to OKF Daily. Gillian Kane, who is the
director of Global Policy and Research at IPASS, the leading
organization working to increase access to sexual and reproductive healthcare globally,
(02:26):
monitors the rise of anti abortion and anti LGBTQ movements
across the world and has been on the front lines
looking at how Project twenty twenty five has been tested
globally before making its way into the United States. Jillian, first,
talk to us about your organization and how you came
(02:50):
to understand or see firsthand Project twenty twenty five in
action outside of the United States.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Sure, thanks so much for having me on the shows.
So Project twenty twenty five came to our attention via
Valerie Huber. So Valerie Huber used to be in the
Trump administration. She worked in the Health and Human Services Department,
and we were quite interested in what she was doing
because she had initiated during her time in the Trump
administration this initiative, an anti abortion initiative called the Geneva
(03:20):
Consensus Declaration in twenty twenty So we were following her
and that because this project was interesting for us because
it brought together about thirty six countries to sort of
stand together and make a statement that was anti abortion.
So as an organization that really cares about access to
reproductive health, sexual rights, and abortion in particular, we really
(03:40):
wanted to pay attention. So that's how it first came
across our sitelines.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So now Project twenty twenty five is probably one of
the scariest documents that I think in a long time
that have been created. A nine hundred page policy agenda
to essentially reimagine America, reimagine what we understand and as
our democratic values and norms, taking on everything from the environment,
(04:06):
to reproductive health, to public education, so on and so forth.
What your organization has seen is that this pieces of
Project twenty twenty five have been tested, are being tested,
have been rolled out globally. Talk to us about that
where and where you have seen it and what information
(04:28):
it can provide for us as we are now less
than one hundred days away from the election.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So again, the starting point, and I think for this conversation,
the ending point really is the Geneva Consensus Declaration and
then Valories Huber's work to implement it. So give a
little bit more detail. Launched in the waning days of
the Trump administration, twenty twenty not enforceable, it's pretty much
just a piece of paper and acts as a manifesto,
(04:55):
but it's being used by the signatory countries to really
sort of data position against abortion, against diverse families, and
for national sovereignty. So a lot of these elements are
also a part of Project twenty twenty five. Moreover, the
link is very clear between Project twenty twenty five and
Geneva Consensus Declaration and then this project that Valerie Huber
(05:19):
has started as part of her new work since leaving
the previous administration. So she opened up this new shop.
It's called the Institute for Women's Health, and within that
she designed what she's calling a women's health project to
attend to women and family and their holistic health. So
these are all very nice words, but it's really absent
any detail about what it includes. But she has said
(05:41):
that Protago, and that's the name of this project, is
the implementing sort of element for the Geneva Consensus declaration.
So there's a lot of details here, but just to
step back, Geneva Consensus Declaration also makes several cameos in
Project twenty twenty five and so in what we wanted
to do and really sort of understand how it sits
in this Project twenty twenty five, And as you were saying,
(06:03):
and how we have identified is that the pieces are
ready being put in place. If the protagoes to be
the implementing instrument for the Geneva Consensus declaration, well they've
already started and they've started it in two countries, Guatemala
and Uganda.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So talk to us about the Geneva consensus. Unpack it
for us. What are the elements that we see in
Project twenty twenty five, and why, in your opinion do
you think that it is dangerous and something to be
of note in the US.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So unpacking it, it's a very short document, it's one page,
the Geneva Consensus Declaration, and it has a set of
four pillars which I mentioned, our family, anti abortion, and
national sovereignty. The reason that this, you know, creates concern
for US is that obviously, you know, abortion access is
something that we believe firmly you should be available to
all people, and this is setting it up as something
(06:56):
you know, that they're explicitly going after. So the lands
in Project twenty twenty five is that they say that
US foreign policy should align with sort of the pillars
of the Geneva Consensus Declaration, so saying, okay, when we
make foreign policy decisions and specifically around overseas development aid,
and also thinking about how do we fund multilateral institutions
(07:18):
like the United Nations, like the sort of the technical
bodies like UNFPA, unisef UNESCO. As we look at these
entities or foreign policy, we have to look at it
through the lens of the Geneva Consensus Declaration. That is
very clear in Project twenty twenty five. So again, what
are these pillars. Is this idea of national sovereignty, the
idea of anti abortion, the idea of a heteronormative family.
(07:40):
These are all things that are contained within the Geneva
Consensus declaration. And they're saying this should be the guiding
post for our foreign policy and what it does, especially
around the issue of national sovereignty. And we're talking about
foreign policy, is it setting up human rights versus national sovereignty.
So they're saying sovereignty takes precedent over international human rights,
and human rights that we do believe in are the
(08:02):
ones that are listed here in this one page document.
But also we can refer back to the previous administration
who put together this Commission on Unalienable Rights. I don't
know if you remember that from back in the day,
where again they put together this commission to look and
review US priorities around human rights and sort of land
on what are the priority of human rights, which in
and of itself contravenes internetia. Human rights Human rights are
(08:25):
holistic right. You don't privilege one human right over now
that you don't privilege religion over reproductive rights. Like everything
has to be examined and continuum. So again there's a
lot of detail, but I think it's important to note
how all of these different angles are coming together with
a really clear idea of how they're going to address multilateralism,
overseas development aid, and women's rights in particular.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So, for instance, you would look at a country, if
we're living in a Trump two point zero administration, you
would potentially look at whether or not you're going to
be providing aid, providing resources, which we know that the
United States does to foreign nations based on whether or
not they have access to abortion, based on whether or
(09:11):
not they recognize LGBTQ people as you know people. So if,
in fact, let's just start there, these two things are
present in the country that is seeking aid right or
seeking assistance, then in the eyes of a Trump administration
two point zero, you would be denied across the board.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, I'm not sure it necessarily works that way. I
think it's a little bit in the reverse. So US
money can't go to fund those pieces. So we have
the global Gag rule for example, right, So this is
the implementing policy to restrict funding for overseas development aid
as it relates to abortion. So the threat, as it
were from Project twenty twenty five, is that they're going
(09:52):
to cut off funding for projects that support these issues.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
What would the damage be in doing that? Can you
walk us through what a possible scenario would be and
how that would be damaging to said country.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So we know, for example, the Global Gag Rule, which
is this policy piece that gets shelved around with each
new administration, Democratic Republicans, right, so Democrats get rid of it,
Republicans reinstated. So we know from previous administrations that when
the Global Gag Rule is implemented, it cuts off aid
from certain technical organizations that are providing health services, and
(10:33):
they cut it off on the grounds that are not
even on the ground saying that like if you even
say the word abortion, so even talking about abortion is
something that will eliminate you from getting funding. So that's
something that we can anticipate in the future. And we
also know there's been many studies because this policy has
been around since Reagan, the harms that happen once the
Global Gag Rule is reinstated, so you lose funding, unwanted
(10:55):
pregnancies increase, and so you know the whole host of
bad effects that happen when you start defunding health organizations.
So that's what we can anticipate. And also we know
that looking at Project twenty twenty five, they want to
expanded global gagrill. They want to go even further.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
When we're looking and examining Project twenty twenty five and
we see the dangers that this could potentially cause women
and people with uteruses in this country. And you said
currently in Guatemala and remind me of the other country, Uganda, Uganda.
Can you talk to us about what is happening in
Guatemala and Uganda and things that we should be paying
(11:36):
attention to, because oftentimes here in the United States we
don't really pay attention to those two countries in particular,
but I mean in general, we're very American centric in
our news coverage. So tell us what are some of
the things that have been happening in those two countries
and where do you see possible similarities into how these
policies could be rolled out in the United States.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So Valerie Huber, when she launched the for Women's Health,
she started this protago project, and during her time during
the previous administration, she had fostered really good relationships with
the previous president of Guatemala, jama Te. They had cultivated
this friendship relationship. A couple of years ago, jama Te
had a big ceremony where he declared Guatemala the pro
(12:21):
life capital of the Americas. Valeri Huver flew over there,
she celebrated that event. So they go way back anyway.
She starts this parteco project, which is again ostensibly to
attend to women's holistic health, and she piloted in Guatemala.
So this is a partnership that is done with the
Guatemalan government. So again, mind you, we don't have a
whole lot of details about what is included. But what
(12:42):
we do know is Valeriy Huber's background. We know her
background when she was in the previous administration. We also
know when she worked at the state level in Ohio
where she's from, and she has always led on abstinence
only as sort of the driver for sexuality education. So
we know that. We know she led on Giva Consensus
declaration anti abortion, so we can fairly with some certain
(13:03):
de assume that protago will include those elements. So what
happens is they piloted in Guatemala, and if you look
at her materials, and this is quite interesting and kind
of circumvents normal protocols about how health projects are implemented,
especially when support from outside of the country is she said,
the way do we do it six steps. The first
step is to get buy in from the executive, from
(13:25):
the president. Now, I've never heard of a health project
that runs through a president. That's just simply unheard of.
And so again it really suggests that there is sort
of a political element to what should be a health project.
But you know, and she said, we have to have
buy in. She did the same thing in Uganda. She traveled,
she met the first lady, Janet mu seventy, same thing.
They build up a partnership and then what's unclear is
(13:47):
sort of what are the financial implications of this. What
we also do know in both those countries is that
high rates of sexual violence exist. Teen pregnancy is also
a problem. And so what we know is we have
and this kind of ties into the multilateralism piece, is
we have un organizations, technical bodies like UNESCO and UNICEF
(14:09):
who partner with the government to do projects health projects
that are grounded in science, that are grounded in research. So,
for example, we know comprehensive sexuality education is proven to
attend to, you know, educating youth and children about empowerment
about prevention. This suggested if she's coming in she valued
Hubert Institute for Women's Health. What happens to the previous
(14:32):
partnership that the country has set up with these un
bodies and then sort of looking bigger with Project twenty
twenty five. What happens if in a future administration funding
is cut off for these entities. So we know that's
going to happen. That's very clear in Project twenty twenty five.
And we know what happened from the previous administration when,
for example, during the pandemic they pulled funding from the
World Health Organization, the pre eminent body that would you know,
(14:54):
support global health. So again we had there is a
pattern that has played out which Project twenty twenty five
is picking up and it's also it's amplifying it. And
so those to us are our reasons for concern it
and for being alert.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
It's so fascinating, right because as you're talking, I think
back to COVID in the United States, and I think
back to the way that the Trump administration politicized public
health and now, when we think about public health, even
for those of us who understand the importance of public health,
we see it through a very political lens because of
(15:28):
how it was weaponized. And so when you hear things
like women's holistic treatment, right, it's all of the right
buzzwords in the right order, but has nothing to do
with actual health.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
And so when we talk, I guess, how do you
think that we regain the messaging or the understanding around
public health where it needs to be moved outside of
the arena of politics and back into the arena of
medicine and health.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I mean, I'm not sure how to answer it, just
because given you know what you're saying in COVID, I mean,
you had all the experts, you had all the evidence,
and then these crack pops show up and they tug
on people's emotions, they tug on people's fears, and so again,
you know, one can write all the reports, get them
peer reviewed, have them in you know, leading journals, it
seems to not make a difference. So you know, I'm
not sure what the answer is, but I do know
(16:20):
that what the harm is. And so, you know, replacing
science and evidence with you know, ideology right, yeah, right, yeah,
you know, and that's that's the zone that we're going into.
And again, I mean, I think this has been said
many times Visa v Project twenty twenty five, but really
it's a it's a handbook for a certain person, right.
(16:41):
It privileges the rights of a certain person. It's generally white,
it's generally a man, and it's generally someone of the
Christian faith. And so you know, all of this is
so alienating to everybody else who happens to populate the world,
that happens to populate the United States. So yeah, what
would you.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Say then needs to be the alone arm that goes
off that people truly understand, because I think that in
this country, right with the overturning of Roe v. Wade,
I think it was the first time in said fifty
years where women and people with uteruses understood that the
possibility that a right could be taken away, that bodily
autonomy could be taken away, that now you have young
(17:20):
girls who have less rights and less autonomy than their
parents and their grandparents did. And so you know, unfortunately,
it takes the loss of something so major like Roe v.
Wade in order to awaken the masses to what the
larger agenda is. And so when you see that these
(17:42):
things are readily being accepted and unfolding globally, you know,
what is the alarm that should go off for people
in the United States as they look abroad for either
a guidance or in fear of what could possibly be.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, I mean, I think all of these pieces are
a bit abstract to most people, you know, even the
fact that the fall of Row was something that came
to a shock to a lot of people. I mean,
I think, you know, there's certainly you know, folks like
ourselves who are watching this and it wasn't such a surprise.
So I think, you know, talking about the export of hate,
the export of anti feminism that is all embedded in
(18:19):
this Project twenty twenty five. I mean, I'm not sure
how to realise alarm. I think I would maybe invert
the question and say, how can we alert our partners
overseas that this is what's coming down the pipeline. I
think that's where we can sort of, you know, get
the right attention and sort of this this again in
previous administrations, we know how this plays out, and Project
twenty twenty five is promising that it's going to be
a whole lot worse. You know, it's going to be
(18:40):
tur road charge. And so what are the pieces? The
pieces are funding for Multila, the United Nations. Right, So
already the UN is an all liquidity crisis, you know,
recently there's literally like shutting the lights out early to
save money. I mean, it's bad. And the US is
one of the biggest contributors to the UN, if not
the big guess so what happens to that? I mean,
(19:02):
and not to say that like, you know, the UN
is the end all on the b all. It's very problematic,
but it's what we got and it's what we're working with.
So if that goes away, what are the dangers and
who's going to come in and sort of save us?
So in the previous administration, when the Global Gag Rule
was introduced, immediately there was a lot of global solidarity.
A lot of you know, northern countries who supply you know,
(19:22):
development aid came and said, okay, so the funding loss
that's going to happen from this Global Gag rule, we're
going to make it up and we're going to set
up I don't think that's going to happen this time, right,
So I think you start at the beginning of the conversation.
You know, the global shift to the right, the elections
in the European Parliament, you know, the elections at the
national level in Europe's all of that is changing the
(19:43):
dynamic that we counted on in twenty sixteen. So I
think that's another red flag, if you will coming down
the pipeline.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Jillian, I really appreciate you coming on and providing these
insights and kind of raising the alarm globally at a
time when we're very much focused domestically. Tell folks how
they can learn more about IPASS, you know, get involved,
et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, I say, plug into our website ipass dot org.
We have a lot of information and ways to get
in touch with us, and we have a dedicated page
of research that addresses the questions around Project twenty twenty
five and Protego and ye feel free to email us too.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Thank you so much for making the time for woke.
If really appreciate you. That is it for me today,
Dear friends on wokf as always power to the people
and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay
woke as fuck,
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WOKF Daily with Meet
your Girl Daniel Moody. Pre Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
I'm taking a little bit of a respite before we
head into the craziness of convention at the end of August,
and so I'm leaving you, as always with some really
good interviews. Coming up on today's episode is my conversation
(00:36):
with Jillian Kin, who is the director of Global Policy
and Research at IPASS, the leading organization working to increase
access to sexual and reproductive healthcare globally. In this conversation, friends,
we talk about Project twenty twenty five and how Project
twenty twenty five is already underway in countries like Guatemala,
(00:58):
and what we can learn about how these conservative policies
are being tested outside of our borders. And you know,
while Donald Trump wants to distance himself from Project twenty
twenty five, while you know, they just fired one of
the leaders of Project twenty twenty five, and Trump campaign
(01:23):
wants to release a statement and say that it's disbanded.
We know that that is let me think about it, bullshit,
because they have no platform outside of that and they
can call it whatever the fuck name that they want
to call it, But the reality is this is what
Republicans want. And there is leaked audio that is now
going around of Kevin Roberts, who is the president of
(01:44):
the Heritage Foundation, who says that it's totally fine if
Donald Trump wants to distance himself publicly from Project twenty
twenty five. But guess what, they know what it is,
and so they're good to go with the fucking pr
game that they're trying to run on the American people.
Right now, all I have to say wants a liar,
always a liar, don't fall for the robodote. Coming up next,
(02:04):
my conversation with Jillian Kane, Folks. I am very happy
to welcome to OKF Daily. Gillian Kane, who is the
director of Global Policy and Research at IPASS, the leading
organization working to increase access to sexual and reproductive healthcare globally,
(02:26):
monitors the rise of anti abortion and anti LGBTQ movements
across the world and has been on the front lines
looking at how Project twenty twenty five has been tested
globally before making its way into the United States. Jillian, first,
talk to us about your organization and how you came
(02:50):
to understand or see firsthand Project twenty twenty five in
action outside of the United States.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Sure, thanks so much for having me on the shows.
So Project twenty twenty five came to our attention via
Valerie Huber. So Valerie Huber used to be in the
Trump administration. She worked in the Health and Human Services Department,
and we were quite interested in what she was doing
because she had initiated during her time in the Trump
administration this initiative, an anti abortion initiative called the Geneva
(03:20):
Consensus Declaration in twenty twenty So we were following her
and that because this project was interesting for us because
it brought together about thirty six countries to sort of
stand together and make a statement that was anti abortion.
So as an organization that really cares about access to
reproductive health, sexual rights, and abortion in particular, we really
(03:40):
wanted to pay attention. So that's how it first came
across our sitelines.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So now Project twenty twenty five is probably one of
the scariest documents that I think in a long time
that have been created. A nine hundred page policy agenda
to essentially reimagine America, reimagine what we understand and as
our democratic values and norms, taking on everything from the environment,
(04:06):
to reproductive health, to public education, so on and so forth.
What your organization has seen is that this pieces of
Project twenty twenty five have been tested, are being tested,
have been rolled out globally. Talk to us about that
where and where you have seen it and what information
(04:28):
it can provide for us as we are now less
than one hundred days away from the election.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So again, the starting point, and I think for this conversation,
the ending point really is the Geneva Consensus Declaration and
then Valories Huber's work to implement it. So give a
little bit more detail. Launched in the waning days of
the Trump administration, twenty twenty not enforceable, it's pretty much
just a piece of paper and acts as a manifesto,
(04:55):
but it's being used by the signatory countries to really
sort of data position against abortion, against diverse families, and
for national sovereignty. So a lot of these elements are
also a part of Project twenty twenty five. Moreover, the
link is very clear between Project twenty twenty five and
Geneva Consensus Declaration and then this project that Valerie Huber
(05:19):
has started as part of her new work since leaving
the previous administration. So she opened up this new shop.
It's called the Institute for Women's Health, and within that
she designed what she's calling a women's health project to
attend to women and family and their holistic health. So
these are all very nice words, but it's really absent
any detail about what it includes. But she has said
(05:41):
that Protago, and that's the name of this project, is
the implementing sort of element for the Geneva Consensus declaration.
So there's a lot of details here, but just to
step back, Geneva Consensus Declaration also makes several cameos in
Project twenty twenty five and so in what we wanted
to do and really sort of understand how it sits
in this Project twenty twenty five, And as you were saying,
(06:03):
and how we have identified is that the pieces are
ready being put in place. If the protagoes to be
the implementing instrument for the Geneva Consensus declaration, well they've
already started and they've started it in two countries, Guatemala
and Uganda.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So talk to us about the Geneva consensus. Unpack it
for us. What are the elements that we see in
Project twenty twenty five, and why, in your opinion do
you think that it is dangerous and something to be
of note in the US.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So unpacking it, it's a very short document, it's one page,
the Geneva Consensus Declaration, and it has a set of
four pillars which I mentioned, our family, anti abortion, and
national sovereignty. The reason that this, you know, creates concern
for US is that obviously, you know, abortion access is
something that we believe firmly you should be available to
all people, and this is setting it up as something
(06:56):
you know, that they're explicitly going after. So the lands
in Project twenty twenty five is that they say that
US foreign policy should align with sort of the pillars
of the Geneva Consensus Declaration, so saying, okay, when we
make foreign policy decisions and specifically around overseas development aid,
and also thinking about how do we fund multilateral institutions
(07:18):
like the United Nations, like the sort of the technical
bodies like UNFPA, unisef UNESCO. As we look at these
entities or foreign policy, we have to look at it
through the lens of the Geneva Consensus Declaration. That is
very clear in Project twenty twenty five. So again, what
are these pillars. Is this idea of national sovereignty, the
idea of anti abortion, the idea of a heteronormative family.
(07:40):
These are all things that are contained within the Geneva
Consensus declaration. And they're saying this should be the guiding
post for our foreign policy and what it does, especially
around the issue of national sovereignty. And we're talking about
foreign policy, is it setting up human rights versus national sovereignty.
So they're saying sovereignty takes precedent over international human rights,
and human rights that we do believe in are the
(08:02):
ones that are listed here in this one page document.
But also we can refer back to the previous administration
who put together this Commission on Unalienable Rights. I don't
know if you remember that from back in the day,
where again they put together this commission to look and
review US priorities around human rights and sort of land
on what are the priority of human rights, which in
and of itself contravenes internetia. Human rights Human rights are
(08:25):
holistic right. You don't privilege one human right over now
that you don't privilege religion over reproductive rights. Like everything
has to be examined and continuum. So again there's a
lot of detail, but I think it's important to note
how all of these different angles are coming together with
a really clear idea of how they're going to address multilateralism,
overseas development aid, and women's rights in particular.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So, for instance, you would look at a country, if
we're living in a Trump two point zero administration, you
would potentially look at whether or not you're going to
be providing aid, providing resources, which we know that the
United States does to foreign nations based on whether or
not they have access to abortion, based on whether or
(09:11):
not they recognize LGBTQ people as you know people. So if,
in fact, let's just start there, these two things are
present in the country that is seeking aid right or
seeking assistance, then in the eyes of a Trump administration
two point zero, you would be denied across the board.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, I'm not sure it necessarily works that way. I
think it's a little bit in the reverse. So US
money can't go to fund those pieces. So we have
the global Gag rule for example, right, So this is
the implementing policy to restrict funding for overseas development aid
as it relates to abortion. So the threat, as it
were from Project twenty twenty five, is that they're going
(09:52):
to cut off funding for projects that support these issues.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
What would the damage be in doing that? Can you
walk us through what a possible scenario would be and
how that would be damaging to said country.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So we know, for example, the Global Gag Rule, which
is this policy piece that gets shelved around with each
new administration, Democratic Republicans, right, so Democrats get rid of it,
Republicans reinstated. So we know from previous administrations that when
the Global Gag Rule is implemented, it cuts off aid
from certain technical organizations that are providing health services, and
(10:33):
they cut it off on the grounds that are not
even on the ground saying that like if you even
say the word abortion, so even talking about abortion is
something that will eliminate you from getting funding. So that's
something that we can anticipate in the future. And we
also know there's been many studies because this policy has
been around since Reagan, the harms that happen once the
Global Gag Rule is reinstated, so you lose funding, unwanted
(10:55):
pregnancies increase, and so you know the whole host of
bad effects that happen when you start defunding health organizations.
So that's what we can anticipate. And also we know
that looking at Project twenty twenty five, they want to
expanded global gagrill. They want to go even further.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
When we're looking and examining Project twenty twenty five and
we see the dangers that this could potentially cause women
and people with uteruses in this country. And you said
currently in Guatemala and remind me of the other country, Uganda, Uganda.
Can you talk to us about what is happening in
Guatemala and Uganda and things that we should be paying
(11:36):
attention to, because oftentimes here in the United States we
don't really pay attention to those two countries in particular,
but I mean in general, we're very American centric in
our news coverage. So tell us what are some of
the things that have been happening in those two countries
and where do you see possible similarities into how these
policies could be rolled out in the United States.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So Valerie Huber, when she launched the for Women's Health,
she started this protago project, and during her time during
the previous administration, she had fostered really good relationships with
the previous president of Guatemala, jama Te. They had cultivated
this friendship relationship. A couple of years ago, jama Te
had a big ceremony where he declared Guatemala the pro
(12:21):
life capital of the Americas. Valeri Huver flew over there,
she celebrated that event. So they go way back anyway.
She starts this parteco project, which is again ostensibly to
attend to women's holistic health, and she piloted in Guatemala.
So this is a partnership that is done with the
Guatemalan government. So again, mind you, we don't have a
whole lot of details about what is included. But what
(12:42):
we do know is Valeriy Huber's background. We know her
background when she was in the previous administration. We also
know when she worked at the state level in Ohio
where she's from, and she has always led on abstinence
only as sort of the driver for sexuality education. So
we know that. We know she led on Giva Consensus
declaration anti abortion, so we can fairly with some certain
(13:03):
de assume that protago will include those elements. So what
happens is they piloted in Guatemala, and if you look
at her materials, and this is quite interesting and kind
of circumvents normal protocols about how health projects are implemented,
especially when support from outside of the country is she said,
the way do we do it six steps. The first
step is to get buy in from the executive, from
(13:25):
the president. Now, I've never heard of a health project
that runs through a president. That's just simply unheard of.
And so again it really suggests that there is sort
of a political element to what should be a health project.
But you know, and she said, we have to have
buy in. She did the same thing in Uganda. She traveled,
she met the first lady, Janet mu seventy, same thing.
They build up a partnership and then what's unclear is
(13:47):
sort of what are the financial implications of this. What
we also do know in both those countries is that
high rates of sexual violence exist. Teen pregnancy is also
a problem. And so what we know is we have
and this kind of ties into the multilateralism piece, is
we have un organizations, technical bodies like UNESCO and UNICEF
(14:09):
who partner with the government to do projects health projects
that are grounded in science, that are grounded in research. So,
for example, we know comprehensive sexuality education is proven to
attend to, you know, educating youth and children about empowerment
about prevention. This suggested if she's coming in she valued
Hubert Institute for Women's Health. What happens to the previous
(14:32):
partnership that the country has set up with these un
bodies and then sort of looking bigger with Project twenty
twenty five. What happens if in a future administration funding
is cut off for these entities. So we know that's
going to happen. That's very clear in Project twenty twenty five.
And we know what happened from the previous administration when,
for example, during the pandemic they pulled funding from the
World Health Organization, the pre eminent body that would you know,
(14:54):
support global health. So again we had there is a
pattern that has played out which Project twenty twenty five
is picking up and it's also it's amplifying it. And
so those to us are our reasons for concern it
and for being alert.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
It's so fascinating, right because as you're talking, I think
back to COVID in the United States, and I think
back to the way that the Trump administration politicized public
health and now, when we think about public health, even
for those of us who understand the importance of public health,
we see it through a very political lens because of
(15:28):
how it was weaponized. And so when you hear things
like women's holistic treatment, right, it's all of the right
buzzwords in the right order, but has nothing to do
with actual health.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
And so when we talk, I guess, how do you
think that we regain the messaging or the understanding around
public health where it needs to be moved outside of
the arena of politics and back into the arena of
medicine and health.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I mean, I'm not sure how to answer it, just
because given you know what you're saying in COVID, I mean,
you had all the experts, you had all the evidence,
and then these crack pops show up and they tug
on people's emotions, they tug on people's fears, and so again,
you know, one can write all the reports, get them
peer reviewed, have them in you know, leading journals, it
seems to not make a difference. So you know, I'm
not sure what the answer is, but I do know
(16:20):
that what the harm is. And so, you know, replacing
science and evidence with you know, ideology right, yeah, right, yeah,
you know, and that's that's the zone that we're going into.
And again, I mean, I think this has been said
many times Visa v Project twenty twenty five, but really
it's a it's a handbook for a certain person, right.
(16:41):
It privileges the rights of a certain person. It's generally white,
it's generally a man, and it's generally someone of the
Christian faith. And so you know, all of this is
so alienating to everybody else who happens to populate the world,
that happens to populate the United States. So yeah, what
would you.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Say then needs to be the alone arm that goes
off that people truly understand, because I think that in
this country, right with the overturning of Roe v. Wade,
I think it was the first time in said fifty
years where women and people with uteruses understood that the
possibility that a right could be taken away, that bodily
autonomy could be taken away, that now you have young
(17:20):
girls who have less rights and less autonomy than their
parents and their grandparents did. And so you know, unfortunately,
it takes the loss of something so major like Roe v.
Wade in order to awaken the masses to what the
larger agenda is. And so when you see that these
(17:42):
things are readily being accepted and unfolding globally, you know,
what is the alarm that should go off for people
in the United States as they look abroad for either
a guidance or in fear of what could possibly be.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, I mean, I think all of these pieces are
a bit abstract to most people, you know, even the
fact that the fall of Row was something that came
to a shock to a lot of people. I mean,
I think, you know, there's certainly you know, folks like
ourselves who are watching this and it wasn't such a surprise.
So I think, you know, talking about the export of hate,
the export of anti feminism that is all embedded in
(18:19):
this Project twenty twenty five. I mean, I'm not sure
how to realise alarm. I think I would maybe invert
the question and say, how can we alert our partners
overseas that this is what's coming down the pipeline. I
think that's where we can sort of, you know, get
the right attention and sort of this this again in
previous administrations, we know how this plays out, and Project
twenty twenty five is promising that it's going to be
a whole lot worse. You know, it's going to be
(18:40):
tur road charge. And so what are the pieces? The
pieces are funding for Multila, the United Nations. Right, So
already the UN is an all liquidity crisis, you know,
recently there's literally like shutting the lights out early to
save money. I mean, it's bad. And the US is
one of the biggest contributors to the UN, if not
the big guess so what happens to that? I mean,
(19:02):
and not to say that like, you know, the UN
is the end all on the b all. It's very problematic,
but it's what we got and it's what we're working with.
So if that goes away, what are the dangers and
who's going to come in and sort of save us?
So in the previous administration, when the Global Gag Rule
was introduced, immediately there was a lot of global solidarity.
A lot of you know, northern countries who supply you know,
(19:22):
development aid came and said, okay, so the funding loss
that's going to happen from this Global Gag rule, we're
going to make it up and we're going to set
up I don't think that's going to happen this time, right,
So I think you start at the beginning of the conversation.
You know, the global shift to the right, the elections
in the European Parliament, you know, the elections at the
national level in Europe's all of that is changing the
(19:43):
dynamic that we counted on in twenty sixteen. So I
think that's another red flag, if you will coming down
the pipeline.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Jillian, I really appreciate you coming on and providing these
insights and kind of raising the alarm globally at a
time when we're very much focused domestically. Tell folks how
they can learn more about IPASS, you know, get involved,
et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, I say, plug into our website ipass dot org.
We have a lot of information and ways to get
in touch with us, and we have a dedicated page
of research that addresses the questions around Project twenty twenty
five and Protego and ye feel free to email us too.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Thank you so much for making the time for woke.
If really appreciate you. That is it for me today,
Dear friends on wokf as always power to the people
and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay
woke as fuck,
Host
Danielle Moodie
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