October 3, 2024 • 22 mins
The Republican party is dangerous, deceptive, and disgusting...and Democrats continue to cede ground to them. Dr. Jonathan Metzl returns to Woke AF Daily to discuss the road ahead.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ook F Daily with
me your girl, Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
by now you have seen the headlines with regard to
the vice presidential debate that took place on October first,
and hopefully you were able to catch me on Mary
(00:32):
Trump's Live on Debate night as well as my immediate
thoughts that went up yesterday with the new abnormal. You know,
here's the thing, and I got a lot of pushback
on social media, and I was actually kind of surprised
by it. Not surprised to get pushedback, because everybody doesn't
always agree with me, and that's totally fine. I think
(00:53):
that the reality here to me how I saw that
debate is one I've said this before. Debits are nothing
more than political theater. Therefore, certain class of folks like
myself who really are into the nitty gritty of politics, right,
I do not think that the average voter turns into
(01:14):
a debate and says to themselves, well, I'm going into
this undecided. Even though we know that CNN and MSNBC
and others love to put up these voter panels after
the fact that say, oh, have you been swayed because
they say that they're undecided. I believe that that also
is part of the political theater. I think that most
people tune in because you know, they want to see
(01:36):
a good head to head, They want to see a matchup.
But most people go in with like you would go
into a sporting match, right, like you have your team
that is in mind, and you you know who you're supporting,
and you just want to see if they do well.
So last night, for me, I mean, what I will
say is that Tim Walls has said before that he
(01:56):
was not a good debater. Do I think that he
was not good? Do I think that there were any
disastrous moments? No, but I do think that he absolutely
left things unsaid. He treated Advance as if he is
normal and normalized and sinewashed, helped to sainwash his extremism.
And what do I mean by that? We all have
(02:17):
heard the tapes of JD. Vance going on these right wing, misogynistic,
toxic white male podcasts where he has said the infamous
lines of about childless cat ladies and postmentalpausal women and
the need to be ruthless in your pursuit of power
(02:39):
and banning abortion and IVF and all of these things
that we know. So when you're going head to head
with JD. Vance and you're asked questions about reproductive care
and what your administration is going to do about that,
like this is an opportunity for you to remind regular
(03:01):
voters who are not necessarily like watching cable news twenty
four hours a day or following what is going on
by every moment, that this man is not to be trusted.
He may speak in complete sentences right and have an
even tone, but he is the polished up version of
Donald Trump and Project twenty twenty five. What he did
(03:24):
successfully was give a normalized face to extremist ideology.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
JD.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Vance didn't answer any direct question. So when he's asked
about abortion, and it's Tim Walls's turn, right, and he
was asked Tim Walls was asked a fucking stupid question
with regard to what about babies being aborted at nine months?
It's just like, on that face, I would have said,
that question is preposterous. You know that that does not
(03:54):
ever happen, and that is a Republican talking point that
we know is a lie, So why is it being
repeated here tonight? Would have been my response. That being said,
you lay out what your plans on and just say,
let me remind the viewers at home the jd Vance
absolutely did call for an abortion ban. Jd Vance has
absolutely spoken demeaning ways about women, about childless women, that
(04:20):
the only value that you can have as a woman
in this society is to procreate. Right, ask him right
now what he has said that we have all heard
on various podcasts. That is the kind of energy. And
those are the responses that I wanted because I wanted
to make it very clear that although he is younger
(04:44):
and more coherent than Donald Trump, that he is actually
a lot more dangerous. And so when I see articles
from New York Magazine like he is smart and slick
with regard to jd Vance and the and I know
that Republicans have won. And why do I say that?
(05:04):
Because how would you applaud somebody for being smart and
slick when nothing that came out of their mouth was
the truth. Anyone can sound smart and slick if in fact,
you don't fact check, and you don't dig deeper, and
you don't ask any follow up questions, and you allow
what they say to just stand and leave it up
(05:26):
to the American people to be the sleuths, to be
the detectives, to unpack the things that the media should
be doing for them. He had the audacity in the
middle of that debate to say, after he's once again
smeared legal immigrants that are living in Springfield, Ohio and
was told that, yeah, they're actually here on temporary protective passes,
(05:49):
so they are here legally, and that his response was,
I thought you weren't going to fact check, so you
just got up here expecting to be able to lie
because nobody is going to check you. And therein lies
the strategy of the Republican Party. So when given an
opportunity to show the American people who JD. Vance is,
(06:12):
I think that Tim Walls did not do that job.
By agreeing with JD. Vance, by trying to seem reasonable, right,
you made it seem as if the Republican Party is reasonable,
and we know that they are not. They are an extremist,
white nationalist cult that is weaponized religion and fear in
order to build and spread their agenda. They have taken
(06:36):
hold of the Supreme Court, of Federal judgeships, of classrooms
of governorships, and have in many cases in states like Tennessee, Florida,
Alabama and others have operationalized Project twenty twenty five. What
they're trying to do with this election is nationalize it.
(06:58):
So any opportunity where you are given to showcase to
the American people just how dangerous this group is, but
instead you're offering like some nice guy sentiments, I think
is problematic. And that's what I said, and I stand
by that. Do I think that it was a disaster. No.
(07:20):
Do I think that it swung the election, you know,
one way or the other. Absolutely not. But I think
that any time that any Democrat, particularly during this heightened
election season, has an opportunity to be in front of
a microphone, you need to remind the American people how
fucking dangerous this Republican Party is and not sit there
(07:40):
and normalize it as if this is just oh well,
if we lose, you know, we'll just get them again
in four years. That is not what's going to happen.
And so if you were watching last night and you
knew nothing about Project twenty twenty five, and you knew
nothing about any of JD Vance's stances, then you think that, ah,
you know, this is just an election between I mean, like,
(08:00):
you know, the Romney type of Republicans and like Obama Democrats.
That's not what the fuck this is. So I think
that it was a missed opportunity on the part of
Tim Walls to showcase just how dangerous, deceptive, and disgusting
the Republican Party is. Coming up next, dear friends, my
(08:21):
conversation with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks,
you know that whenever we have the opportunity to speak
with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, who apparently
has needed his own doctor because has had an unfortunate
accident recently with softball. Jonathan, welcome back. What has happened?
(08:44):
Did you break it your wrist? I broke it.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah. I play in a men's league and a night league,
and I'm out there to burn off some calories so
i can eat more mcgrib But other people think they're
in the major leagues. And so I was playing catcher
and I had the ball. The guy was running in
and I'm just like, I'm like, I don't care if
you score, good for you. But he ran into me.
(09:08):
Oh no, I'm not trying to knock the ball out
of my glove. But it turned out he knocked my
bone out of my hand, not out of it, but yeah,
so I cracked a metacarpal one of the bones in
your hand. As you know, I love sports like more
than anything, and now you're I can't do sports for
two months. And so I'm open to any listener's suggestions
(09:31):
about like, should I do dual lingo? Should I?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yes? Do a lingo is actually a really good addictive
thing to do. I will say that. Well, I am
sorry to hear that, and I hope that you have
a speedy recovery.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It happened so quickly, so anyway, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So here we are talking today at the time of
this recording, we're thirty four days until the election, and
I have a overwhelming sense of anxiety and dread that
is building, that is rebuilding that had been deterred for
a couple of weeks, a couple of months, and I
(10:10):
wanted to get a sense from you how you are feeling,
what you were thinking about with regard to the handful
of people in a handful of states that are going
to decide whether or not democracy as a project continues
as imperfect as it is.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I think in general, for what it's worth. The Harris
campaign has been doing a fantastic job and so I
feel very assured of the competence of the campaign. But
the variables are just massive right now. So part of
the anxiety, if that's the right word, is just that
there are uncontrollable things. I mean, as we're speaking today,
(10:46):
that dock workers are going on strike, it's going to
be potentially a four point five billion dollar a day
blow to the economy, and all this stuff happening with
the teamsters and where they stand, and are they trying
to hurt Harris with some of their actions and things
like that, and so you know, of course support the
(11:06):
rights of labor to better wages and conditions and security,
but just doing this right now to me is just
like such a variable that undercuts the economic message, which
is such a core message for Harris. And so I
hope that that resolved because that's a variable. And then
it feels like there's a very real chance that that
(11:29):
Iron Israel situation is going to escalate considerably as we
speak today, and that is another variable that is just
you know, massive, and so all of these things are
there are just so many things that can happen honestly
in the next two hours, let alone the next thirty days.
And so again, part of the anxiety is like the
(11:50):
things you can't control, and so I just want to
roofy myself and wake up in two months, you know.
But I know that right now everybody needs to be
focused and present.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I think that that's the difficulty that I'm having right now,
is the focus and be present, because I think to
your point, like we've had so many conversations over the
years where you and I both were giving it to Democrats, right.
Their messaging sucks, their strategies suck, all of these things,
and the fact is is that we've gotten everything that
we've wanted to a large extent fixed with the Vice
(12:23):
president and Tim Walls's team, right. They are not reactive.
They are combative. They are thoughtful and strategic and funny,
and they're using all different modes. She's on podcasts, they're
on social media, they're doing an HBCU tour, They're doing
all of the right things. And I think that where
my anxiety and my frustration lies right now is that
(12:46):
the concerted effort by both corporate mainstream media, different entities.
Elon Musk on Twitter, like there are so many powerful
forces that do not want demandocracy to continue. And I
think that for me, it's like the people. It isn't
(13:07):
just about Oh, people need to get out and turn
out the vote. Yes they do, but the forces that
are at play it's like nothing I've ever seen. I
think that both people are energized to do the work,
and you're seeing that, but there's also the reality that
the Peter Tiels and the Elon Muss and the Heritage
(13:29):
Foundation are all on the side of ending democracy.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
For me, even more scary than that is the everyday
logics that kind of support this. I have a couple
of colleagues who come from places like Hungary for example,
that turned away from democracy, and I always ask them like,
was it just like you woke up one day in
democracy was gone? And they're like, no, actually it's just
(13:53):
chip by chip by chip. People start to think in
a way that is more a therapy than they're daily logic.
And so for me, the scary part, I mean, beyond
like all these huge forces, is like, what's happening in
a place like Italy, for example, where like people slowly,
Oh of course we imprison protesters. Oh of course we
(14:16):
don't give birth certificates to kids of gay parents. Like,
just every little thing that's happening in Italy right now
is leading to more power for authoritarians. They're changing the
judicial system, they're changing the way that prime ministers are elected.
It's very similar to what Nittanyahu has been trying to
do over the past year in Israel, which is changing
(14:37):
the judicial system, cement power for extremists in Russia, which
is a totally different example, but there's a rise of
kind of nationalism among youth, and so it's kind of
like the everyday ness of this that I also find
like we're a moment now where the US can either
lead to turn back against these bigger trends, which I
(14:58):
sure hope we do, or we're going to succumb to
all these larger currents, which is people understanding the world
in a way that they haven't understood it in a
way that hasn't been the case since the thirties, right,
that hasn't really been the case in our lifetimes.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, I'm fucking terrified, and I think that I would
feel less so if we didn't have the electoral college,
if it were up to the people, one vote, one voice,
and it was about majority wins. Whoever gets the most
votes wins. I would be overconfident right now, probably, and
I would say, of course she's going to win. They're
(15:37):
going to win, We're going to win. But given the
fact that we're just talking about six or seven states
where Republicans are governors, do you even think that it
matters right now? Jonathan, Like, one of the things that
is striking me is the fact that we just had
(15:57):
Hurricane Helene that devastated Asville, North Carolina. That is a
mountain city that is elevated well above sea level and
has now succumbed to the forces of climate change. And
yet there are people inside of that state that readily
(16:17):
vote for representation from people who don't believe in climate change.
And so I keep coming back as we get closer
to the election to your book Dying of Whiteness, because
I'm just like, I don't think that there is a
way to convince white women in the Midwest that the
Handmaid's Tail doesn't have to be their future, like that
(16:40):
they can choose to actualize their own power. If I'm
relying on democracy to survive by convincing racist white people
and white women with internalized misogyny to choose their own power.
I think we're fucked. I don't know your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I always think about the dying of vice. An example
of when I interviewed the people who lost kids to
gun suicide and accidental shooting, and I would ask them,
did this change your view about guns? And they would
always say, no, we're actually more progun than we were before.
Like it becomes people's framework, it's their religion, and so
(17:23):
I think the idea that a horrible climate thing is
going to happen and then they're going to change their
identity to somebody who then believes in climate change. I
came to understand, like how how that was my expectation
because I already believe in climate change. But people would
ask me when I was doing the research for the
gun stuff, if something happened to you, would you start
(17:44):
carrying an AAR fifteen every day? And I'd be like, no,
there's nothing. There's nothing that would make me carry an
air fifteen every day. And so these issues are so deep.
There's such identity issues for a lot of people that
I think part of the issue. And I'm not trying
to sound like overly simplistic or whatever. But it's almost
like you think about it, like somebody gets cancer or
(18:05):
gets hit by lightning or something like that, they become
more religious. They don't become atheists or something like that.
Like people fall back on their belief systems in moments
like this, and so I don't know, it's hard to say,
like what does it take to get people to change
their mind at a time like this. So I guess
I'm just saying that my research makes me realize, like
(18:25):
the more desperate people become, the more ideological they become
a lot of times, and so I'm not surprised that
something like a massive catastrophic flood like this doesn't mean
that people are going to change their view. They're probably
going to double down on what their view was before.
But it is just sad because I mean not just sad,
it's horrible and it's catastrophic. I don't know. I guess
(18:46):
I idealize other points in time, But it's just that
all of our political issues are such deep identity issues,
Like it's just so predictable that the whole country is
deadlocked on their identity issues. And then there's like forty
five people in the metal who are kind of decide
the entire damn thing. So I know we're all feeling
(19:07):
like beat down, but man, the next month is a
really important month. So everybody, like, you know, drink a
protein drink and keep fighting because it's really there's so
much at stake, and so I just think picking ourselves
up off the floor right now and continuing the fight.
It's really a tug of war right now, and we
got to all show up for it.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Have you thought about what happens if he wins.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
If Trump wins?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I've done a lot of
work and other places where something comparable happens, not nothing
at this scale or something, But I just I've done
so many interviews in Israel where people thought that their
liberal centrist world was going to go on forever. And
the day after Nisan Yahu won, well before October seventh,
(19:54):
a couple months before, people realized their life was changing forever.
So it's that kind of day after where all of
a sudden it hit people how different their life was
about to be in a orse sense. And what I
learned from that Israel research before was that centrists showed
up and liberals at the rate that they always had,
but the right was really energized and all these hidden
(20:17):
ways because they smelled power and owning the libs and
all this kind of stuff. And so it's just that
feeling of just a chemical feeling that your life is
never going to be the same, that the paradigm and
the framework that has governed the way you see the
world and the way you understand it is never going
to be the same. And I imagine that beyond any
day to day thing, it would just be something like that,
(20:38):
we're living in a totally different paradigm right now.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
But we've been, you know, Like That's the other point too,
is that I just realized, I don't know, I'm feeling
very existential this morning, But it was this idea that
everything has already shifted. People proselytize about the end end
of days, But when you're in the end of days,
would you actually know that you're in the end of days?
I don't think so. And so I just think to
(21:04):
the degree at which ideologies and identities have already shifted
over the last eight years, it's already churning. That's where
I feel right now, which is there's an opportunity to
stop it, but I don't think even I have recognized
how many billions of dollars and forces there are to
(21:28):
push against the will of the people.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Well, listen, I think those are all real things. They
are certainly real. But we need your voice right now.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
So I mean, I'm not going anywhere. Why God, I'm
not leaving, but I'm just like, that's the place that
I'm thinking about, which is, Yeah, we have thirty four
days and then the election is over, and so thirty
four days from the time that we're recording this, we
need to do as I'll use a sports analogy as
we close out, leave it all on the field.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yep, that's sure.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
As they say, Jonathan, my friend, thank you so much.
Heal get better and do Dualinka.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It'll be good for you all right, bye everybody.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
As a reminder, friend, I am live every Monday through
Thursday on my YouTube channel at five pm Eastern, So
do make sure that you head over to YouTube, type
in the Daniel Moody channel and subscribe so that you
never miss an episode and never miss the an opportunity
to build community over there in our live chat. That
(22:35):
is it for me today, dear friends on wokf as always,
power to the people and to all the people power,
get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ook F Daily with
me your girl, Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
by now you have seen the headlines with regard to
the vice presidential debate that took place on October first,
and hopefully you were able to catch me on Mary
(00:32):
Trump's Live on Debate night as well as my immediate
thoughts that went up yesterday with the new abnormal. You know,
here's the thing, and I got a lot of pushback
on social media, and I was actually kind of surprised
by it. Not surprised to get pushedback, because everybody doesn't
always agree with me, and that's totally fine. I think
(00:53):
that the reality here to me how I saw that
debate is one I've said this before. Debits are nothing
more than political theater. Therefore, certain class of folks like
myself who really are into the nitty gritty of politics, right,
I do not think that the average voter turns into
(01:14):
a debate and says to themselves, well, I'm going into
this undecided. Even though we know that CNN and MSNBC
and others love to put up these voter panels after
the fact that say, oh, have you been swayed because
they say that they're undecided. I believe that that also
is part of the political theater. I think that most
people tune in because you know, they want to see
(01:36):
a good head to head, They want to see a matchup.
But most people go in with like you would go
into a sporting match, right, like you have your team
that is in mind, and you you know who you're supporting,
and you just want to see if they do well.
So last night, for me, I mean, what I will
say is that Tim Walls has said before that he
(01:56):
was not a good debater. Do I think that he
was not good? Do I think that there were any
disastrous moments? No, but I do think that he absolutely
left things unsaid. He treated Advance as if he is
normal and normalized and sinewashed, helped to sainwash his extremism.
And what do I mean by that? We all have
(02:17):
heard the tapes of JD. Vance going on these right wing, misogynistic,
toxic white male podcasts where he has said the infamous
lines of about childless cat ladies and postmentalpausal women and
the need to be ruthless in your pursuit of power
(02:39):
and banning abortion and IVF and all of these things
that we know. So when you're going head to head
with JD. Vance and you're asked questions about reproductive care
and what your administration is going to do about that,
like this is an opportunity for you to remind regular
(03:01):
voters who are not necessarily like watching cable news twenty
four hours a day or following what is going on
by every moment, that this man is not to be trusted.
He may speak in complete sentences right and have an
even tone, but he is the polished up version of
Donald Trump and Project twenty twenty five. What he did
(03:24):
successfully was give a normalized face to extremist ideology.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
JD.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Vance didn't answer any direct question. So when he's asked
about abortion, and it's Tim Walls's turn, right, and he
was asked Tim Walls was asked a fucking stupid question
with regard to what about babies being aborted at nine months?
It's just like, on that face, I would have said,
that question is preposterous. You know that that does not
(03:54):
ever happen, and that is a Republican talking point that
we know is a lie, So why is it being
repeated here tonight? Would have been my response. That being said,
you lay out what your plans on and just say,
let me remind the viewers at home the jd Vance
absolutely did call for an abortion ban. Jd Vance has
absolutely spoken demeaning ways about women, about childless women, that
(04:20):
the only value that you can have as a woman
in this society is to procreate. Right, ask him right
now what he has said that we have all heard
on various podcasts. That is the kind of energy. And
those are the responses that I wanted because I wanted
to make it very clear that although he is younger
(04:44):
and more coherent than Donald Trump, that he is actually
a lot more dangerous. And so when I see articles
from New York Magazine like he is smart and slick
with regard to jd Vance and the and I know
that Republicans have won. And why do I say that?
(05:04):
Because how would you applaud somebody for being smart and
slick when nothing that came out of their mouth was
the truth. Anyone can sound smart and slick if in fact,
you don't fact check, and you don't dig deeper, and
you don't ask any follow up questions, and you allow
what they say to just stand and leave it up
(05:26):
to the American people to be the sleuths, to be
the detectives, to unpack the things that the media should
be doing for them. He had the audacity in the
middle of that debate to say, after he's once again
smeared legal immigrants that are living in Springfield, Ohio and
was told that, yeah, they're actually here on temporary protective passes,
(05:49):
so they are here legally, and that his response was,
I thought you weren't going to fact check, so you
just got up here expecting to be able to lie
because nobody is going to check you. And therein lies
the strategy of the Republican Party. So when given an
opportunity to show the American people who JD. Vance is,
(06:12):
I think that Tim Walls did not do that job.
By agreeing with JD. Vance, by trying to seem reasonable, right,
you made it seem as if the Republican Party is reasonable,
and we know that they are not. They are an extremist,
white nationalist cult that is weaponized religion and fear in
order to build and spread their agenda. They have taken
(06:36):
hold of the Supreme Court, of Federal judgeships, of classrooms
of governorships, and have in many cases in states like Tennessee, Florida,
Alabama and others have operationalized Project twenty twenty five. What
they're trying to do with this election is nationalize it.
(06:58):
So any opportunity where you are given to showcase to
the American people just how dangerous this group is, but
instead you're offering like some nice guy sentiments, I think
is problematic. And that's what I said, and I stand
by that. Do I think that it was a disaster. No.
(07:20):
Do I think that it swung the election, you know,
one way or the other. Absolutely not. But I think
that any time that any Democrat, particularly during this heightened
election season, has an opportunity to be in front of
a microphone, you need to remind the American people how
fucking dangerous this Republican Party is and not sit there
(07:40):
and normalize it as if this is just oh well,
if we lose, you know, we'll just get them again
in four years. That is not what's going to happen.
And so if you were watching last night and you
knew nothing about Project twenty twenty five, and you knew
nothing about any of JD Vance's stances, then you think that, ah,
you know, this is just an election between I mean, like,
(08:00):
you know, the Romney type of Republicans and like Obama Democrats.
That's not what the fuck this is. So I think
that it was a missed opportunity on the part of
Tim Walls to showcase just how dangerous, deceptive, and disgusting
the Republican Party is. Coming up next, dear friends, my
(08:21):
conversation with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks,
you know that whenever we have the opportunity to speak
with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, who apparently
has needed his own doctor because has had an unfortunate
accident recently with softball. Jonathan, welcome back. What has happened?
(08:44):
Did you break it your wrist? I broke it.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah. I play in a men's league and a night league,
and I'm out there to burn off some calories so
i can eat more mcgrib But other people think they're
in the major leagues. And so I was playing catcher
and I had the ball. The guy was running in
and I'm just like, I'm like, I don't care if
you score, good for you. But he ran into me.
(09:08):
Oh no, I'm not trying to knock the ball out
of my glove. But it turned out he knocked my
bone out of my hand, not out of it, but yeah,
so I cracked a metacarpal one of the bones in
your hand. As you know, I love sports like more
than anything, and now you're I can't do sports for
two months. And so I'm open to any listener's suggestions
(09:31):
about like, should I do dual lingo? Should I?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yes? Do a lingo is actually a really good addictive
thing to do. I will say that. Well, I am
sorry to hear that, and I hope that you have
a speedy recovery.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It happened so quickly, so anyway, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So here we are talking today at the time of
this recording, we're thirty four days until the election, and
I have a overwhelming sense of anxiety and dread that
is building, that is rebuilding that had been deterred for
a couple of weeks, a couple of months, and I
(10:10):
wanted to get a sense from you how you are feeling,
what you were thinking about with regard to the handful
of people in a handful of states that are going
to decide whether or not democracy as a project continues
as imperfect as it is.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I think in general, for what it's worth. The Harris
campaign has been doing a fantastic job and so I
feel very assured of the competence of the campaign. But
the variables are just massive right now. So part of
the anxiety, if that's the right word, is just that
there are uncontrollable things. I mean, as we're speaking today,
(10:46):
that dock workers are going on strike, it's going to
be potentially a four point five billion dollar a day
blow to the economy, and all this stuff happening with
the teamsters and where they stand, and are they trying
to hurt Harris with some of their actions and things
like that, and so you know, of course support the
(11:06):
rights of labor to better wages and conditions and security,
but just doing this right now to me is just
like such a variable that undercuts the economic message, which
is such a core message for Harris. And so I
hope that that resolved because that's a variable. And then
it feels like there's a very real chance that that
(11:29):
Iron Israel situation is going to escalate considerably as we
speak today, and that is another variable that is just
you know, massive, and so all of these things are
there are just so many things that can happen honestly
in the next two hours, let alone the next thirty days.
And so again, part of the anxiety is like the
(11:50):
things you can't control, and so I just want to
roofy myself and wake up in two months, you know.
But I know that right now everybody needs to be
focused and present.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I think that that's the difficulty that I'm having right now,
is the focus and be present, because I think to
your point, like we've had so many conversations over the
years where you and I both were giving it to Democrats, right.
Their messaging sucks, their strategies suck, all of these things,
and the fact is is that we've gotten everything that
we've wanted to a large extent fixed with the Vice
(12:23):
president and Tim Walls's team, right. They are not reactive.
They are combative. They are thoughtful and strategic and funny,
and they're using all different modes. She's on podcasts, they're
on social media, they're doing an HBCU tour, They're doing
all of the right things. And I think that where
my anxiety and my frustration lies right now is that
(12:46):
the concerted effort by both corporate mainstream media, different entities.
Elon Musk on Twitter, like there are so many powerful
forces that do not want demandocracy to continue. And I
think that for me, it's like the people. It isn't
(13:07):
just about Oh, people need to get out and turn
out the vote. Yes they do, but the forces that
are at play it's like nothing I've ever seen. I
think that both people are energized to do the work,
and you're seeing that, but there's also the reality that
the Peter Tiels and the Elon Muss and the Heritage
(13:29):
Foundation are all on the side of ending democracy.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
For me, even more scary than that is the everyday
logics that kind of support this. I have a couple
of colleagues who come from places like Hungary for example,
that turned away from democracy, and I always ask them like,
was it just like you woke up one day in
democracy was gone? And they're like, no, actually it's just
(13:53):
chip by chip by chip. People start to think in
a way that is more a therapy than they're daily logic.
And so for me, the scary part, I mean, beyond
like all these huge forces, is like, what's happening in
a place like Italy, for example, where like people slowly,
Oh of course we imprison protesters. Oh of course we
(14:16):
don't give birth certificates to kids of gay parents. Like,
just every little thing that's happening in Italy right now
is leading to more power for authoritarians. They're changing the
judicial system, they're changing the way that prime ministers are elected.
It's very similar to what Nittanyahu has been trying to
do over the past year in Israel, which is changing
(14:37):
the judicial system, cement power for extremists in Russia, which
is a totally different example, but there's a rise of
kind of nationalism among youth, and so it's kind of
like the everyday ness of this that I also find
like we're a moment now where the US can either
lead to turn back against these bigger trends, which I
(14:58):
sure hope we do, or we're going to succumb to
all these larger currents, which is people understanding the world
in a way that they haven't understood it in a
way that hasn't been the case since the thirties, right,
that hasn't really been the case in our lifetimes.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, I'm fucking terrified, and I think that I would
feel less so if we didn't have the electoral college,
if it were up to the people, one vote, one voice,
and it was about majority wins. Whoever gets the most
votes wins. I would be overconfident right now, probably, and
I would say, of course she's going to win. They're
(15:37):
going to win, We're going to win. But given the
fact that we're just talking about six or seven states
where Republicans are governors, do you even think that it
matters right now? Jonathan, Like, one of the things that
is striking me is the fact that we just had
(15:57):
Hurricane Helene that devastated Asville, North Carolina. That is a
mountain city that is elevated well above sea level and
has now succumbed to the forces of climate change. And
yet there are people inside of that state that readily
(16:17):
vote for representation from people who don't believe in climate change.
And so I keep coming back as we get closer
to the election to your book Dying of Whiteness, because
I'm just like, I don't think that there is a
way to convince white women in the Midwest that the
Handmaid's Tail doesn't have to be their future, like that
(16:40):
they can choose to actualize their own power. If I'm
relying on democracy to survive by convincing racist white people
and white women with internalized misogyny to choose their own power.
I think we're fucked. I don't know your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I always think about the dying of vice. An example
of when I interviewed the people who lost kids to
gun suicide and accidental shooting, and I would ask them,
did this change your view about guns? And they would
always say, no, we're actually more progun than we were before.
Like it becomes people's framework, it's their religion, and so
(17:23):
I think the idea that a horrible climate thing is
going to happen and then they're going to change their
identity to somebody who then believes in climate change. I
came to understand, like how how that was my expectation
because I already believe in climate change. But people would
ask me when I was doing the research for the
gun stuff, if something happened to you, would you start
(17:44):
carrying an AAR fifteen every day? And I'd be like, no,
there's nothing. There's nothing that would make me carry an
air fifteen every day. And so these issues are so deep.
There's such identity issues for a lot of people that
I think part of the issue. And I'm not trying
to sound like overly simplistic or whatever. But it's almost
like you think about it, like somebody gets cancer or
(18:05):
gets hit by lightning or something like that, they become
more religious. They don't become atheists or something like that.
Like people fall back on their belief systems in moments
like this, and so I don't know, it's hard to say,
like what does it take to get people to change
their mind at a time like this. So I guess
I'm just saying that my research makes me realize, like
(18:25):
the more desperate people become, the more ideological they become
a lot of times, and so I'm not surprised that
something like a massive catastrophic flood like this doesn't mean
that people are going to change their view. They're probably
going to double down on what their view was before.
But it is just sad because I mean not just sad,
it's horrible and it's catastrophic. I don't know. I guess
(18:46):
I idealize other points in time, But it's just that
all of our political issues are such deep identity issues,
Like it's just so predictable that the whole country is
deadlocked on their identity issues. And then there's like forty
five people in the metal who are kind of decide
the entire damn thing. So I know we're all feeling
(19:07):
like beat down, but man, the next month is a
really important month. So everybody, like, you know, drink a
protein drink and keep fighting because it's really there's so
much at stake, and so I just think picking ourselves
up off the floor right now and continuing the fight.
It's really a tug of war right now, and we
got to all show up for it.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Have you thought about what happens if he wins.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
If Trump wins?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I've done a lot of
work and other places where something comparable happens, not nothing
at this scale or something, But I just I've done
so many interviews in Israel where people thought that their
liberal centrist world was going to go on forever. And
the day after Nisan Yahu won, well before October seventh,
(19:54):
a couple months before, people realized their life was changing forever.
So it's that kind of day after where all of
a sudden it hit people how different their life was
about to be in a orse sense. And what I
learned from that Israel research before was that centrists showed
up and liberals at the rate that they always had,
but the right was really energized and all these hidden
(20:17):
ways because they smelled power and owning the libs and
all this kind of stuff. And so it's just that
feeling of just a chemical feeling that your life is
never going to be the same, that the paradigm and
the framework that has governed the way you see the
world and the way you understand it is never going
to be the same. And I imagine that beyond any
day to day thing, it would just be something like that,
(20:38):
we're living in a totally different paradigm right now.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
But we've been, you know, Like That's the other point too,
is that I just realized, I don't know, I'm feeling
very existential this morning, But it was this idea that
everything has already shifted. People proselytize about the end end
of days, But when you're in the end of days,
would you actually know that you're in the end of days?
I don't think so. And so I just think to
(21:04):
the degree at which ideologies and identities have already shifted
over the last eight years, it's already churning. That's where
I feel right now, which is there's an opportunity to
stop it, but I don't think even I have recognized
how many billions of dollars and forces there are to
(21:28):
push against the will of the people.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Well, listen, I think those are all real things. They
are certainly real. But we need your voice right now.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
So I mean, I'm not going anywhere. Why God, I'm
not leaving, but I'm just like, that's the place that
I'm thinking about, which is, Yeah, we have thirty four
days and then the election is over, and so thirty
four days from the time that we're recording this, we
need to do as I'll use a sports analogy as
we close out, leave it all on the field.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yep, that's sure.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
As they say, Jonathan, my friend, thank you so much.
Heal get better and do Dualinka.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It'll be good for you all right, bye everybody.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
As a reminder, friend, I am live every Monday through
Thursday on my YouTube channel at five pm Eastern, So
do make sure that you head over to YouTube, type
in the Daniel Moody channel and subscribe so that you
never miss an episode and never miss the an opportunity
to build community over there in our live chat. That
(22:35):
is it for me today, dear friends on wokf as always,
power to the people and to all the people power,
get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Host
Danielle Moodie
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