April 23, 2024 • 30 mins
Danielle's Democracy-ish cohost Wajahat Ali joined her for a very real discussion about who does and does not have the right to defend themselves and whether Biden's unwavering support of Israel is worth risking our own democracy.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, Peeves, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
you know. Over the weekend, I posted a tweet of
mine on Instagram and since that posting, it is up
(00:33):
to about like ninety three comments. And here's what I posted.
I posted in response to the White House making a
statement on the student protests that are happening at Columbia University,
and I wrote this at potus weighing in on the
(00:55):
rights of students to protest is not good. The way
that our democracy is being undermine all to uphold the
rights of another country to oppress without repercussions is unconscionable.
While I will continue to push for Dems, this makes
me sick. This is a piece of what the White
(01:17):
House's statement was quote. While every American has the right
to peaceful protest, calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting
Jewish students and Jewish community are blietantly anti Semitic, unconscionable,
and dangerous. They have absolutely no place on any college
campus or anywhere in the United States of America. And
(01:39):
echoing the rhetoric of terrorist organizations especially in the wake
of the worst massacre committed against the Jewish people since
the Holocaust, is despicable. We condemn these statements in the
strongest terms. That is not what is happening at Columbia.
Students have set up tents that were forcibly removed by police.
(02:02):
The university has decided to criminalize the act of protests
and bring on police and the FBI. We are seeing
students be thrown out of school for protesting against their
university's funds being sent to Israel. And the fact is
(02:25):
is that, like, while you can't control how other people
may protest outside of said university, and if there is
violence that has happened, and I know that there is,
and if there's intimidation that has happened, which I know
that it has, we have the right to protest. It
is said stated clearly in the Constitution. That does not
(02:51):
mean that you only have the right to protest when
your ideas align with my own. For instance, I have
reported on this show and on others that white supremacist
groups have been organizing and marching down city streets across
this country. Have they been arrested, No, they haven't, even
(03:13):
though by their sheer presence. They are trying to intimidate
and oppress those around them, but they're allowed to do
that because that is their constitutional fucking right. Do I
think it is gross and disgusting, apps of fucking lutely,
(03:36):
But do I want to live in a country that
says that only certain people have a right to protest?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
No?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I fucking don't. And so once again to deny the
reality that six months after these horrific attacks started in October,
that over thirty thousand Palestinian peace people, children and women
have been fucking killed, that there has been absolutely a
(04:09):
breakaway from the Geneva Convention by Israel on a number
of occasions, that our tax dollars continue to go to
fund murder. It is not something that people are just
(04:29):
going to forget about. And I think that this administration
was thinking that, like with other foreign affairs and other incidents,
that Americans, after a little bit, would get tired and
just go back to business as usual. Well guess what
they fucking aren't. They're continuing to organize, they're continuing to protest,
they're continuing to march, They're continuing to use their voices
(04:55):
as thus given to them by the constitution of these
United States, and so for this administration to not fucking
get it that these young people are pissed and rightfully so.
And then on top of that, you the only thing
(05:18):
that our politicians seem to want to agree about is
the banning of TikTok, which is an organizing tool and
an information tool for this generation and others. You can't
agree on an assault rifles ban, you can't agree on
affordable housing, you can't agree on a child tax credit,
(05:41):
but you all get together and want to agree on Oh,
TikTok is dangerous. Give me a fucking break. You look stupid,
and this generation sees it. But you want their vote
in less than two hundred days, but are in take
their demand seriously whatsoever? And instead are equating the grief
(06:07):
and heartache that they have with watching a genocide unfold
on their screens and saying that because their hearts are breaking,
that they're sympathizing with terrorists. Give me a fucking break now.
While I said in my statement that I will continue
(06:28):
to support Democrats because I know what a final Trump
administration will do to our democracy into this country, this
administration is continually making it more and more difficult for
me to do so, and I know that if I
have difficulty, then I know that there are lots of
folks that do and that instead of swallowing it, we'll
(06:53):
just decide to stay home. So at some point the
Biden administration needs to decide what is more important to
them met and Yahoo or our democracy, because two things
can't exist at the same fucking time. Coming up next,
my conversation with the co host of my other show,
(07:16):
Democracy Ish author and columnist, activist, speaker, brilliant mind Waja
hot Ali, where we get into this conversation and much more, Folks,
I am so excited to welcome back to WOKF Daily,
(07:39):
my co host over at the other eleven thousand pod
that I do democracy Ish Wajahat a Lee who is
the author of Go Back To Where You Came From.
He is a writer, he is a speaker, he is
a prolific tweeter. Waj We are we are in extraordinary times.
(08:04):
We are living in extraordinary times. I think it was
Charlotte Klember on social media who said I miss living
in non historic times, and I said I would like
to go back to precedented times. I sat on a
couch with a friend as we watched the drones from
(08:27):
Iran enter over the dome in Israel, and we're sitting
there and we're watching this happen in real time, and
I'm thinking to myself, Holy shit, is this it? What
were you thinking as you're watching this? And it's been,
(08:50):
you know, several days since, But is this it? Is
this the beginning of World War three? Have we been
in the beginning of it for some time? What are
your reactions?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I had two thoughts which I held at the same
time that might appear to be completely opposite. Is number one,
it revealed the tinderbox that is the Middle East and
how all will take is one moment, one flash of violence,
to potentially God forbid, trigger an international crisis, you know,
which is oftentimes how world wars begin, right because multiple
(09:27):
actors with their own because each actor, each state, actor,
has their own interests, and they'd always align with the
United States, folks. And so you saw a retaliation by
Iran for Israel's strike that we don't talk about because
Israel also struck the world's central kitchen convoy and killed
(09:48):
seven people, but we talked about it on another podcast
that Israel had also that weekend struck the Iranian embassy
in Syria and killed a leading Iranian general. So naturally,
when it comes to these two reckless actors, they have
to save face. So even though as a tinderbox was
about to potentially explode, I also said on the X
(10:09):
or the Twitter, whatever the hell this neo Nazi website
is called, that this is going to be highly dangerous,
reckless theater. My prediction was that Iran has to save
face because their embassy got attacked by Israel, a highly
provocative act that, by the way, our national security experts
said that would not only increase threat assessment for Israel
but also the United States. So we were just sitting
(10:32):
there in pens Needo. How will Iran respond? So Iran
sent these drones, these slow moving drones that took six
hours to get there, which was kind of a signal
Danielle that like, yep, hey, we're sending these drones. They
will arrive in six hours. And then later on Iran said, okay,
we're done, which just goes to show you that in
(10:52):
order to then save face and show that it has
responded to Israel, it sent this provocative act which made
the rest of us be like, holy crap, what's happening right?
And def Con like Defcon three and everyone's tweeting World
War three, And then you're sitting there thinking to yourself,
why oh why has the Biden administration allowed unconditional aid
(11:13):
to this reckless rogue actor named Netan Yahoo that has
always for nearly two decades wanted war champion the war
came to America and said, warrant Remember that we're old
enough to remember. He was one of the champions of
the failed warran Terror. One of the worst foreign policy
decisions of our lifetime, for sure, but perhaps in modern
(11:34):
US history, in which US democracy did not blow him
Across the Middle East. We invaded Iraq, invaded Aganistan. It
was a complete pluster. F who loved it? Nen Yaho?
And what would nan Yaho? And the warhawks love nothing
more than to eliminate Iran. Iran and Israel not suicidal actors,
even though they're dangerous and reckless. But the rest of
US are held hostage by this crisis. And the United
(11:56):
States because it is the number one partner of Israel,
because it gives financial aid to Israel, because it gives weapons,
is still giving weapons to Israel, because Without US support,
Israel cannot continue occupying Gaza of the West Bank or
continue its war. I ask myself, Joe Biden, is it
worth it? Is it worth it to your reputation, to
(12:19):
your legacy, to your election chances, to humanitarian cause, to
global security, to keep with unconditional aid supporting Netanyahu, a
guy who literally wants you to lose. Who's struck not
just the World Central Kitchen which killed an American, also
Al Shaffah hospital no one talks about, and also the
Iranian embassy And we knew the second day they did it. Whoops,
(12:43):
this is going to be threatening for US and Israel.
Iran responded. Everyone else is like, holy shit, this is
World War three. And then everyone's like, oh, don't worry,
it's no, it's not world War three. We're okay? Are
we okay? Do you feel better? Are you calm?
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Do I feel better? Do I feel colm?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
No?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Would be the answer to that. And I think that
you know what else, I noticed as we were all
watching and hashtag world War three was trending. And I
don't know if you saw this. I'm gonna assume that
you did. Wash the comments from Americans for the first
time about Iran. We're not talking about Iran as our
(13:30):
mortal enemy. The comments in the comments section that I
saw on Instagram on TikTok said, so who has the
right to defend themselves? There you go and I and
I'm talking about this was posted on people one of people,
one of one of No, no, no, this was this
(13:51):
was it was? It was Iran sends drones to Israel.
Was posted on a site called the Shade Room, which
is largely a black entertainment and culture site on Instagram
and occasionally they post news and politics and just kind
(14:13):
of put it up there, and then I go to
see what folks are thinking, and it was black folks
that said, well, who has a right to defend themselves?
Israel attacked Ron first, like they just attack their embassy,
so don't they have the right to respond in kind.
This was the first time was in my life that
(14:36):
I'm seeing Americans ask a very real question about the
actions of who has been labeled one of our most
dangerous adversaries. What do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
The conversation around Israel has radically shifted in a way
that I have not seen in my entire life, and
it's thanks to not just pousting and activists, Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims,
but like you said, people of color, black folks, and
also young people. And I think the majority of the
world that is witnessing an ongoing genocide. And if you
don't like the word genocide, collective punishment, war crimes, unjust, unfair, unbalanced,
(15:15):
cruelty against Palestinians, which has claimed the lives of thirty
three thousand Palestinians, mostly civilians, injured more than seventy thousand.
And when we say the word injured, Daniel, you know,
oftentimes when we talk about injuries, you kind of just
casually say, oh, just injuries. We're talking about amputations, kids
without limbs, right, people who we don't even know if
they're going to survive, right who. Now we're seeing starvation
and famine for the population of Gaza, displacement, and we're
(15:39):
seeing what we saw the deaths of humanitarians, the just
blatant murders, journalists, murder of WCK World Central Kitchen Convoy
that was working in conjunction with Israel still wasn't safe.
Shepherds who were just killed today, like you know, just
just murdered by Israel. And then the question then comes
to folks, well, who has the right to self defense?
(16:02):
Don't the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves? If
this was happening to me, what do you do? Do
you just die? And I think black folks in particular
in this country, right, resisting white supremacy has always been
met with civility. Right, don't use violence. You can never
use violence, even if for being whipped and enslaved and
killed and lynched. Okay, you can't arm yourself, God forbid
(16:23):
if you do that. Buying panthers did it. And then
the NRA for the first time, teaming up with Ronald
reg and the governor of California, said oh, let's have
gun control.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So no arm are you in an American city like
they did in Philadelphia in the nineteen eighties, Go ahead,
can do that.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
No problem. Tanks rolling through the streets, right, Tulsa. So
you can't use violence, got it? Can't protest, can't march
and literally Supreme Court now is suggesting that you can't
have mass protests in three states. Okay, got it. Can't
say black lives matter, So can't say some words or
wear some t shirts that offend the economic anxiety of
(16:56):
folks got it. Can't silently kneel during the national anthem.
Can't do that because if you do that, you get
black balled, your NFL career is gone, and then your
jerseys are burned. So the only option that you have
is to just die, just take it and die. And
I think, Danielle, that's why you're seeing, especially with black
(17:17):
people and people of color, indigenous people, and especially young people,
they're finally asking themselves, first and foremost, why are we
giving unconditional aid to an ally that does not act
like an ally, acts like an enemy? Come on, what
interest is it of the United States to expose itself
and expose Americans to a reckless like Like people are
finally asking, wait, why are we giving money to Israel?
(17:39):
Like how does this help me? How does this help
the United States? It doesn't like what's the what's the answer?
Can you tell me the answer? I have a tough
tough time coming with the answer.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Like, here's what I'm told in response, because I say
these things, and I say them, you know, I say
them on air, I say them in you know, in
conversation with friends. But what I'm told I said, So
what happens if the United States decides not to just
continue writing a blank check to Israel. What if there
(18:10):
is actually God forbid some conditions that are put in place,
that require humanitarian aid, that require pathways, that require a
two state solution, that require like all of these things.
And folks tell me was that the United States will crumble.
(18:32):
That without the security that has been created around Israel
in the Middle East, that everything that we know to
be true will vanish. That without the United States securing Israel,
then all bets are off. That's what I'm told.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You call the security the rise in anti Semitism, the
rise in Islamophobia. You call the security where because of
israel reckless attack on Iranian embassy, the threat assessment against
the United States has increased. You call the security where
world nations are angry at the United States for being
the number one supporter of Israel during its occupation and
siege of Gaza. What security you call this security? You
(19:15):
call this friendship when at present buying the most powerful
person on earth, the commander in chief of our country,
says I believe in a two state solution, and the
next state Nanio says, no, I don't believe in two
state solution. When Biden says there should be no more
settlements in the West Bank, in Israel says he there's
gonna be thirty four hundred new settlements in the West Bank.
Where President Biden says, hey, hey, reduce the civilian casualties,
(19:36):
and NANNIEO says, eh, I'm going to kill the WCK
kitchen staff, which includes an American, And hey, this happens
in war? What security? What respect? What mutual reciprocity is
there in this relationship? What do we get out of it?
Why are my tax payer dollars going to the occupation
of Palestinians and to the bombing of Palestinians which is
(19:56):
increasing world hatred against America and also in Muslim majority
countries we have seen going back to the war and
terror that one of the grievances that people like Osama
Milan al Kaya the ISIS have used against the United
States is exactly this, the support for Israel AND's occupation.
So if anything, it emboldens our enemies against us. Tell
(20:16):
me how it helps, Tell me how it helps.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I mean, I can't tell you. I can't tell you
because I agree with everything that you just said. So
like I can't tell you, Daniel.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I think it's madness for any country to be given
unconditional aid. No country is given unconditional aid except Israel.
That's absurd. That's like saying, I'm gonna give you these rockets.
You could go blow up kids unconditional aid, Like why,
But with Israel unconditional aid, you know, iron clad support.
(20:48):
That's what President Biden said a few days ago, and.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
That's what Vice President Howris repeated, iron clad support.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
And I'm like why, And then people are finally asking
why why unconditional support for a reckless actor named Benjamin
Naniah who in an extremist government that have shown nothing
but contempt towards you, President Biden, your administration, your policies,
and also to humanitarian aid, to democracy, to justice, like
(21:14):
the person who is his National security minister. For those
who don't know, is Itamar ben Gavier? An extremist according
to Israel standards, who's giving out machine guns to settlers,
and who's openly saying, you know, President Trump would be
better than Biden and is openly saying, yeah, we want
it all, we want everything river to the sea completely.
In contrast to the alleged policies of President Biden, and
(21:36):
you know, it reminds me of this. It's like I
think maybe Biden is a masochist at heart, and I
don't want to kink shame that like Nan Yahoo just
like slaps him around and Biden says, thank you, might
have another. But what it does is it makes Biden
look weak. It weakens him before a monumental election where
I think you and I agree that our democracy is
at stake. As you and I have said on our
(21:56):
other podcast, Democracy Ish that this will end up hurting
him with some Democratic voters. And when you and I
say it, no one listens. But when white dudes say
they will. There's an article out in the Atlantic this
week showing exactly that that this issue now Democrats are
afraid might hurt them in the upcoming election. And it's
not just Muslims and Arabs.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I want to ask you this too, with regard to
the continued coverage and what we're seeing in mainstream media
and in cable news, because what I thought was really
interesting as I was watching the drones as you were
a couple of weekends ago head to Israel, I noticed
who wasn't on air during their hour and that was
(22:44):
Aim in Mohedeen and instead on MSNBC it was Jose
Diaz Bolart and I thought to myself, and I go
on Jose's show. I enjoy Jose, but you know what,
I know, he's not an expert in the Middle East.
You know what I know that he is not is
(23:04):
somebody that has been doing correspondence in that part of
the world for their entire career, like Am and Mohedeen. So,
you know, I want to ask you, you know, your
thoughts on the invisibilizing that is happening to prominent Muslims
on air and what we need to make of that
(23:27):
and what we need to say about that.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So, I mean, you know, I'm glad you asked this
question because I saw Aman briefly yesterday at the launch
of Zeteo, which is the new media company launched by
maybe Husson and maythe Husson for those of you who
don't know, used to be was the best interviewer MSNBC had,
I would say, the best interviewer on cable news. And
he was let go, his show was canceled and essentially
then he got out of his contract. He can't talk
(23:50):
about it right now. But I can openly say that
it was due to pressure from outside groups due to
his coverage on Guzin and so he saw maybe Husson
get canceled. People are forgetting that the cancelation attempts against
not just Maylie but also Oli Velshi and I am
at MSNBC where some groups are calling them Hamas propagandists.
You're seeing people anyone who's pro Palestini didn't get canceled.
(24:11):
Even Jewish Americans like Jonathan Glazer, the one the director
who won four Zona of Interest the Academy Award, who
gave a very beautiful humanitarian speech, he got canceled, right,
And you just saw. This is coming out in a
few days. But you just saw, and I think you're
going to see more and more coverage of the USC
commencement speaker. I don't know if you've heard about this Danielle.
(24:33):
Her name is Asneta Bassom, and USC and their cowardice
canceled her speedch citing quote unquote security concerns without mentioning
any security concern. And essentially she's a sweet like young,
brown skinned Hijabi girl who minored in resistance to genocide,
and essentially what people are saying is they were afraid
(24:53):
that during her valedictorian speech she might talk about what's
happening in Gaza, so they canceled her speech. Talked me
about cancel culture, Danielle, Talk to maybe about free you know,
free speech. Talk to me about forget safe spaces, the
marketplace of ideas, all this bullshit right wing talking points
that Ben Shapiro talks about. I haven't seen them coming
to defense with mayde Hussan. I haven't seen them come
(25:14):
of the defense of us. I haven't seen the come
to the defense of Iman. Why is that, Danielle, Why
is that? Hmm? Free speech ends with Palestine.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, And I think that free speech is contention upon
your complexion, and that that is something that has always
been the case in the United States, is that when
you start to advocate for yourself, for your group, for
other marginalized communities, if you do not have the complexion
for the protection, then you are canceled or assassinated, which
(25:47):
is you know, another piece right, like we don't when
we talk about the humanitarian workers that have been killed,
hundreds that have been killed in Gaza, well we're not
talking about are the hundreds journalists that have been killed
in their families that have been killed and targeted, right.
And so while we're not currently in the business of
(26:08):
killing journalists in this country, what we are doing is
killing careers and killing character. And I think that that
is worthy of discussion because what they are trying to
do is make an example of these people, right in
saying that if you open up your mouth right in
(26:29):
a certain way and in a certain frame, and we
can't trust what it is that you're going to say,
so we're going to remove you, right. And so this
is when, in all honesty, I call on white allies, right,
who people who continually ask, you know, what can I do?
What can I do? I call on white allies to
be the fucking shield for the people who are getting canceled, right,
(26:52):
and to lift those people up and to have those
conversations and to be provocative and to use their names
and their voices and their power for those that are made
an example of.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Can I give you a quote just to articulate exactly
what you said, because they're admitting it, like the Bond
villains that they are. Christopher Ufo, the right wing activist
who has gone after CRT and diversity, he used this quote,
and so did Elise Stephanic after they railroaded Claudine Gay,
who was the first black president of Harvard Law School.
They said, we have a scalp. We have a scalp,
(27:27):
and we want more scalps. That's exactly it. We got
the scalp, and then you raise the scalp and you say, see, see,
this is what happens. And then they raise it like
trophy is like the predator. And so what I tell
folks is, Okay, you might have gotten your short term victory,
but this is a pyrrhic victory, Danielle and bring things
back full circle. People have woken up. People have realized
(27:50):
that wait a second, this is not the only democracy
in the Middle East. This seems like an occupying, brutal
country whose policies are demonied Palestinian people who need self
determination and freedom, And why is my money paying for
what most people now are saying is an ongoing genocide?
(28:10):
And the polls that are released as of this week
is that Biden and n Yah who have lost independence
in this country. So not just democrats, even independents are like, yo,
why are we supporting this? Like there should be a ceasefire.
So I'm curious, Danielle, as this war goes on, and
the last thing I'll say is nen Yaho needs this war.
He's a deeply unpopular prime minister. Seventy five percent of
(28:31):
the country wants him out. If this war stops, he
will be forced to resigned. So it's in his interest
for this war to go on. It's in his interest
for Iran to retaliate, because then it whitewashes his sins
and Gaza right, the media complex here will just concentrate
on the news of the day and forget about, you know,
the thirty three thousand dead Palestinians. The question is how
(28:54):
much will Biden give up for a man who mocks him,
ridyicules him, humiliates him, and aggressively wants him to lose
the election. How much will Biden give up? And how
come Biden, who has shown some nimbleness in changing in
other aspects of his career, right in his policies. Wise,
he's so ensconced and entrenched in his defense of Naniehu
(29:17):
in Israel as it's committing what many say is an
ongoing genocide. That will be the question that he will
have to answer. And I think there will be a
cost if he does not answer that question in a
way that moves us toward a seiz fire and peace.
That's my prediction.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Oh, my friend, well, we will have to leave it
there today. But that is in fact the question that
is on the table for this administration, but for our democracy.
At what cost? What cost will it take for the
iron clad grip to cease? Thank you, my friend, for
making the time for will k F. I always appreciate you.
(30:02):
That is it for me today. Dear friends on woke
app as always, power to the people and to all
the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Good morning, Peeves, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
you know. Over the weekend, I posted a tweet of
mine on Instagram and since that posting, it is up
(00:33):
to about like ninety three comments. And here's what I posted.
I posted in response to the White House making a
statement on the student protests that are happening at Columbia University,
and I wrote this at potus weighing in on the
(00:55):
rights of students to protest is not good. The way
that our democracy is being undermine all to uphold the
rights of another country to oppress without repercussions is unconscionable.
While I will continue to push for Dems, this makes
me sick. This is a piece of what the White
(01:17):
House's statement was quote. While every American has the right
to peaceful protest, calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting
Jewish students and Jewish community are blietantly anti Semitic, unconscionable,
and dangerous. They have absolutely no place on any college
campus or anywhere in the United States of America. And
(01:39):
echoing the rhetoric of terrorist organizations especially in the wake
of the worst massacre committed against the Jewish people since
the Holocaust, is despicable. We condemn these statements in the
strongest terms. That is not what is happening at Columbia.
Students have set up tents that were forcibly removed by police.
(02:02):
The university has decided to criminalize the act of protests
and bring on police and the FBI. We are seeing
students be thrown out of school for protesting against their
university's funds being sent to Israel. And the fact is
(02:25):
is that, like, while you can't control how other people
may protest outside of said university, and if there is
violence that has happened, and I know that there is,
and if there's intimidation that has happened, which I know
that it has, we have the right to protest. It
is said stated clearly in the Constitution. That does not
(02:51):
mean that you only have the right to protest when
your ideas align with my own. For instance, I have
reported on this show and on others that white supremacist
groups have been organizing and marching down city streets across
this country. Have they been arrested, No, they haven't, even
(03:13):
though by their sheer presence. They are trying to intimidate
and oppress those around them, but they're allowed to do
that because that is their constitutional fucking right. Do I
think it is gross and disgusting, apps of fucking lutely,
(03:36):
But do I want to live in a country that
says that only certain people have a right to protest?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
No?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I fucking don't. And so once again to deny the
reality that six months after these horrific attacks started in October,
that over thirty thousand Palestinian peace people, children and women
have been fucking killed, that there has been absolutely a
(04:09):
breakaway from the Geneva Convention by Israel on a number
of occasions, that our tax dollars continue to go to
fund murder. It is not something that people are just
(04:29):
going to forget about. And I think that this administration
was thinking that, like with other foreign affairs and other incidents,
that Americans, after a little bit, would get tired and
just go back to business as usual. Well guess what
they fucking aren't. They're continuing to organize, they're continuing to protest,
they're continuing to march, They're continuing to use their voices
(04:55):
as thus given to them by the constitution of these
United States, and so for this administration to not fucking
get it that these young people are pissed and rightfully so.
And then on top of that, you the only thing
(05:18):
that our politicians seem to want to agree about is
the banning of TikTok, which is an organizing tool and
an information tool for this generation and others. You can't
agree on an assault rifles ban, you can't agree on
affordable housing, you can't agree on a child tax credit,
(05:41):
but you all get together and want to agree on Oh,
TikTok is dangerous. Give me a fucking break. You look stupid,
and this generation sees it. But you want their vote
in less than two hundred days, but are in take
their demand seriously whatsoever? And instead are equating the grief
(06:07):
and heartache that they have with watching a genocide unfold
on their screens and saying that because their hearts are breaking,
that they're sympathizing with terrorists. Give me a fucking break now.
While I said in my statement that I will continue
(06:28):
to support Democrats because I know what a final Trump
administration will do to our democracy into this country, this
administration is continually making it more and more difficult for
me to do so, and I know that if I
have difficulty, then I know that there are lots of
folks that do and that instead of swallowing it, we'll
(06:53):
just decide to stay home. So at some point the
Biden administration needs to decide what is more important to
them met and Yahoo or our democracy, because two things
can't exist at the same fucking time. Coming up next,
my conversation with the co host of my other show,
(07:16):
Democracy Ish author and columnist, activist, speaker, brilliant mind Waja
hot Ali, where we get into this conversation and much more, Folks,
I am so excited to welcome back to WOKF Daily,
(07:39):
my co host over at the other eleven thousand pod
that I do democracy Ish Wajahat a Lee who is
the author of Go Back To Where You Came From.
He is a writer, he is a speaker, he is
a prolific tweeter. Waj We are we are in extraordinary times.
(08:04):
We are living in extraordinary times. I think it was
Charlotte Klember on social media who said I miss living
in non historic times, and I said I would like
to go back to precedented times. I sat on a
couch with a friend as we watched the drones from
(08:27):
Iran enter over the dome in Israel, and we're sitting
there and we're watching this happen in real time, and
I'm thinking to myself, Holy shit, is this it? What
were you thinking as you're watching this? And it's been,
(08:50):
you know, several days since, But is this it? Is
this the beginning of World War three? Have we been
in the beginning of it for some time? What are
your reactions?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I had two thoughts which I held at the same
time that might appear to be completely opposite. Is number one,
it revealed the tinderbox that is the Middle East and
how all will take is one moment, one flash of violence,
to potentially God forbid, trigger an international crisis, you know,
which is oftentimes how world wars begin, right because multiple
(09:27):
actors with their own because each actor, each state, actor,
has their own interests, and they'd always align with the
United States, folks. And so you saw a retaliation by
Iran for Israel's strike that we don't talk about because
Israel also struck the world's central kitchen convoy and killed
(09:48):
seven people, but we talked about it on another podcast
that Israel had also that weekend struck the Iranian embassy
in Syria and killed a leading Iranian general. So naturally,
when it comes to these two reckless actors, they have
to save face. So even though as a tinderbox was
about to potentially explode, I also said on the X
(10:09):
or the Twitter, whatever the hell this neo Nazi website
is called, that this is going to be highly dangerous,
reckless theater. My prediction was that Iran has to save
face because their embassy got attacked by Israel, a highly
provocative act that, by the way, our national security experts
said that would not only increase threat assessment for Israel
but also the United States. So we were just sitting
(10:32):
there in pens Needo. How will Iran respond? So Iran
sent these drones, these slow moving drones that took six
hours to get there, which was kind of a signal
Danielle that like, yep, hey, we're sending these drones. They
will arrive in six hours. And then later on Iran said, okay,
we're done, which just goes to show you that in
(10:52):
order to then save face and show that it has
responded to Israel, it sent this provocative act which made
the rest of us be like, holy crap, what's happening right?
And def Con like Defcon three and everyone's tweeting World
War three, And then you're sitting there thinking to yourself,
why oh why has the Biden administration allowed unconditional aid
(11:13):
to this reckless rogue actor named Netan Yahoo that has
always for nearly two decades wanted war champion the war
came to America and said, warrant Remember that we're old
enough to remember. He was one of the champions of
the failed warran Terror. One of the worst foreign policy
decisions of our lifetime, for sure, but perhaps in modern
(11:34):
US history, in which US democracy did not blow him
Across the Middle East. We invaded Iraq, invaded Aganistan. It
was a complete pluster. F who loved it? Nen Yaho?
And what would nan Yaho? And the warhawks love nothing
more than to eliminate Iran. Iran and Israel not suicidal actors,
even though they're dangerous and reckless. But the rest of
US are held hostage by this crisis. And the United
(11:56):
States because it is the number one partner of Israel,
because it gives financial aid to Israel, because it gives weapons,
is still giving weapons to Israel, because Without US support,
Israel cannot continue occupying Gaza of the West Bank or
continue its war. I ask myself, Joe Biden, is it
worth it? Is it worth it to your reputation, to
(12:19):
your legacy, to your election chances, to humanitarian cause, to
global security, to keep with unconditional aid supporting Netanyahu, a
guy who literally wants you to lose. Who's struck not
just the World Central Kitchen which killed an American, also
Al Shaffah hospital no one talks about, and also the
Iranian embassy And we knew the second day they did it. Whoops,
(12:43):
this is going to be threatening for US and Israel.
Iran responded. Everyone else is like, holy shit, this is
World War three. And then everyone's like, oh, don't worry,
it's no, it's not world War three. We're okay? Are
we okay? Do you feel better? Are you calm?
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Do I feel better? Do I feel colm?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
No?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Would be the answer to that. And I think that
you know what else, I noticed as we were all
watching and hashtag world War three was trending. And I
don't know if you saw this. I'm gonna assume that
you did. Wash the comments from Americans for the first
time about Iran. We're not talking about Iran as our
(13:30):
mortal enemy. The comments in the comments section that I
saw on Instagram on TikTok said, so who has the
right to defend themselves? There you go and I and
I'm talking about this was posted on people one of people,
one of one of No, no, no, this was this
(13:51):
was it was? It was Iran sends drones to Israel.
Was posted on a site called the Shade Room, which
is largely a black entertainment and culture site on Instagram
and occasionally they post news and politics and just kind
(14:13):
of put it up there, and then I go to
see what folks are thinking, and it was black folks
that said, well, who has a right to defend themselves?
Israel attacked Ron first, like they just attack their embassy,
so don't they have the right to respond in kind.
This was the first time was in my life that
(14:36):
I'm seeing Americans ask a very real question about the
actions of who has been labeled one of our most
dangerous adversaries. What do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
The conversation around Israel has radically shifted in a way
that I have not seen in my entire life, and
it's thanks to not just pousting and activists, Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims,
but like you said, people of color, black folks, and
also young people. And I think the majority of the
world that is witnessing an ongoing genocide. And if you
don't like the word genocide, collective punishment, war crimes, unjust, unfair, unbalanced,
(15:15):
cruelty against Palestinians, which has claimed the lives of thirty
three thousand Palestinians, mostly civilians, injured more than seventy thousand.
And when we say the word injured, Daniel, you know,
oftentimes when we talk about injuries, you kind of just
casually say, oh, just injuries. We're talking about amputations, kids
without limbs, right, people who we don't even know if
they're going to survive, right who. Now we're seeing starvation
and famine for the population of Gaza, displacement, and we're
(15:39):
seeing what we saw the deaths of humanitarians, the just
blatant murders, journalists, murder of WCK World Central Kitchen Convoy
that was working in conjunction with Israel still wasn't safe.
Shepherds who were just killed today, like you know, just
just murdered by Israel. And then the question then comes
to folks, well, who has the right to self defense?
(16:02):
Don't the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves? If
this was happening to me, what do you do? Do
you just die? And I think black folks in particular
in this country, right, resisting white supremacy has always been
met with civility. Right, don't use violence. You can never
use violence, even if for being whipped and enslaved and
killed and lynched. Okay, you can't arm yourself, God forbid
(16:23):
if you do that. Buying panthers did it. And then
the NRA for the first time, teaming up with Ronald
reg and the governor of California, said oh, let's have
gun control.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So no arm are you in an American city like
they did in Philadelphia in the nineteen eighties, Go ahead,
can do that.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
No problem. Tanks rolling through the streets, right, Tulsa. So
you can't use violence, got it? Can't protest, can't march
and literally Supreme Court now is suggesting that you can't
have mass protests in three states. Okay, got it. Can't
say black lives matter, So can't say some words or
wear some t shirts that offend the economic anxiety of
(16:56):
folks got it. Can't silently kneel during the national anthem.
Can't do that because if you do that, you get
black balled, your NFL career is gone, and then your
jerseys are burned. So the only option that you have
is to just die, just take it and die. And
I think, Danielle, that's why you're seeing, especially with black
(17:17):
people and people of color, indigenous people, and especially young people,
they're finally asking themselves, first and foremost, why are we
giving unconditional aid to an ally that does not act
like an ally, acts like an enemy? Come on, what
interest is it of the United States to expose itself
and expose Americans to a reckless like Like people are
finally asking, wait, why are we giving money to Israel?
(17:39):
Like how does this help me? How does this help
the United States? It doesn't like what's the what's the answer?
Can you tell me the answer? I have a tough
tough time coming with the answer.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Like, here's what I'm told in response, because I say
these things, and I say them, you know, I say
them on air, I say them in you know, in
conversation with friends. But what I'm told I said, So
what happens if the United States decides not to just
continue writing a blank check to Israel. What if there
(18:10):
is actually God forbid some conditions that are put in place,
that require humanitarian aid, that require pathways, that require a
two state solution, that require like all of these things.
And folks tell me was that the United States will crumble.
(18:32):
That without the security that has been created around Israel
in the Middle East, that everything that we know to
be true will vanish. That without the United States securing Israel,
then all bets are off. That's what I'm told.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You call the security the rise in anti Semitism, the
rise in Islamophobia. You call the security where because of
israel reckless attack on Iranian embassy, the threat assessment against
the United States has increased. You call the security where
world nations are angry at the United States for being
the number one supporter of Israel during its occupation and
siege of Gaza. What security you call this security? You
(19:15):
call this friendship when at present buying the most powerful
person on earth, the commander in chief of our country,
says I believe in a two state solution, and the
next state Nanio says, no, I don't believe in two
state solution. When Biden says there should be no more
settlements in the West Bank, in Israel says he there's
gonna be thirty four hundred new settlements in the West Bank.
Where President Biden says, hey, hey, reduce the civilian casualties,
(19:36):
and NANNIEO says, eh, I'm going to kill the WCK
kitchen staff, which includes an American, And hey, this happens
in war? What security? What respect? What mutual reciprocity is
there in this relationship? What do we get out of it?
Why are my tax payer dollars going to the occupation
of Palestinians and to the bombing of Palestinians which is
(19:56):
increasing world hatred against America and also in Muslim majority
countries we have seen going back to the war and
terror that one of the grievances that people like Osama
Milan al Kaya the ISIS have used against the United
States is exactly this, the support for Israel AND's occupation.
So if anything, it emboldens our enemies against us. Tell
(20:16):
me how it helps, Tell me how it helps.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I mean, I can't tell you. I can't tell you
because I agree with everything that you just said. So
like I can't tell you, Daniel.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I think it's madness for any country to be given
unconditional aid. No country is given unconditional aid except Israel.
That's absurd. That's like saying, I'm gonna give you these rockets.
You could go blow up kids unconditional aid, Like why,
But with Israel unconditional aid, you know, iron clad support.
(20:48):
That's what President Biden said a few days ago, and.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
That's what Vice President Howris repeated, iron clad support.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
And I'm like why, And then people are finally asking
why why unconditional support for a reckless actor named Benjamin
Naniah who in an extremist government that have shown nothing
but contempt towards you, President Biden, your administration, your policies,
and also to humanitarian aid, to democracy, to justice, like
(21:14):
the person who is his National security minister. For those
who don't know, is Itamar ben Gavier? An extremist according
to Israel standards, who's giving out machine guns to settlers,
and who's openly saying, you know, President Trump would be
better than Biden and is openly saying, yeah, we want
it all, we want everything river to the sea completely.
In contrast to the alleged policies of President Biden, and
(21:36):
you know, it reminds me of this. It's like I
think maybe Biden is a masochist at heart, and I
don't want to kink shame that like Nan Yahoo just
like slaps him around and Biden says, thank you, might
have another. But what it does is it makes Biden
look weak. It weakens him before a monumental election where
I think you and I agree that our democracy is
at stake. As you and I have said on our
(21:56):
other podcast, Democracy Ish that this will end up hurting
him with some Democratic voters. And when you and I
say it, no one listens. But when white dudes say
they will. There's an article out in the Atlantic this
week showing exactly that that this issue now Democrats are
afraid might hurt them in the upcoming election. And it's
not just Muslims and Arabs.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I want to ask you this too, with regard to
the continued coverage and what we're seeing in mainstream media
and in cable news, because what I thought was really
interesting as I was watching the drones as you were
a couple of weekends ago head to Israel, I noticed
who wasn't on air during their hour and that was
(22:44):
Aim in Mohedeen and instead on MSNBC it was Jose
Diaz Bolart and I thought to myself, and I go
on Jose's show. I enjoy Jose, but you know what,
I know, he's not an expert in the Middle East.
You know what I know that he is not is
(23:04):
somebody that has been doing correspondence in that part of
the world for their entire career, like Am and Mohedeen. So,
you know, I want to ask you, you know, your
thoughts on the invisibilizing that is happening to prominent Muslims
on air and what we need to make of that
(23:27):
and what we need to say about that.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So, I mean, you know, I'm glad you asked this
question because I saw Aman briefly yesterday at the launch
of Zeteo, which is the new media company launched by
maybe Husson and maythe Husson for those of you who
don't know, used to be was the best interviewer MSNBC had,
I would say, the best interviewer on cable news. And
he was let go, his show was canceled and essentially
then he got out of his contract. He can't talk
(23:50):
about it right now. But I can openly say that
it was due to pressure from outside groups due to
his coverage on Guzin and so he saw maybe Husson
get canceled. People are forgetting that the cancelation attempts against
not just Maylie but also Oli Velshi and I am
at MSNBC where some groups are calling them Hamas propagandists.
You're seeing people anyone who's pro Palestini didn't get canceled.
(24:11):
Even Jewish Americans like Jonathan Glazer, the one the director
who won four Zona of Interest the Academy Award, who
gave a very beautiful humanitarian speech, he got canceled, right,
And you just saw. This is coming out in a
few days. But you just saw, and I think you're
going to see more and more coverage of the USC
commencement speaker. I don't know if you've heard about this Danielle.
(24:33):
Her name is Asneta Bassom, and USC and their cowardice
canceled her speedch citing quote unquote security concerns without mentioning
any security concern. And essentially she's a sweet like young,
brown skinned Hijabi girl who minored in resistance to genocide,
and essentially what people are saying is they were afraid
(24:53):
that during her valedictorian speech she might talk about what's
happening in Gaza, so they canceled her speech. Talked me
about cancel culture, Danielle, Talk to maybe about free you know,
free speech. Talk to me about forget safe spaces, the
marketplace of ideas, all this bullshit right wing talking points
that Ben Shapiro talks about. I haven't seen them coming
to defense with mayde Hussan. I haven't seen them come
(25:14):
of the defense of us. I haven't seen the come
to the defense of Iman. Why is that, Danielle, Why
is that? Hmm? Free speech ends with Palestine.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, And I think that free speech is contention upon
your complexion, and that that is something that has always
been the case in the United States, is that when
you start to advocate for yourself, for your group, for
other marginalized communities, if you do not have the complexion
for the protection, then you are canceled or assassinated, which
(25:47):
is you know, another piece right, like we don't when
we talk about the humanitarian workers that have been killed,
hundreds that have been killed in Gaza, well we're not
talking about are the hundreds journalists that have been killed
in their families that have been killed and targeted, right.
And so while we're not currently in the business of
(26:08):
killing journalists in this country, what we are doing is
killing careers and killing character. And I think that that
is worthy of discussion because what they are trying to
do is make an example of these people, right in
saying that if you open up your mouth right in
(26:29):
a certain way and in a certain frame, and we
can't trust what it is that you're going to say,
so we're going to remove you, right. And so this
is when, in all honesty, I call on white allies, right,
who people who continually ask, you know, what can I do?
What can I do? I call on white allies to
be the fucking shield for the people who are getting canceled, right,
(26:52):
and to lift those people up and to have those
conversations and to be provocative and to use their names
and their voices and their power for those that are made
an example of.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Can I give you a quote just to articulate exactly
what you said, because they're admitting it, like the Bond
villains that they are. Christopher Ufo, the right wing activist
who has gone after CRT and diversity, he used this quote,
and so did Elise Stephanic after they railroaded Claudine Gay,
who was the first black president of Harvard Law School.
They said, we have a scalp. We have a scalp,
(27:27):
and we want more scalps. That's exactly it. We got
the scalp, and then you raise the scalp and you say, see, see,
this is what happens. And then they raise it like
trophy is like the predator. And so what I tell
folks is, Okay, you might have gotten your short term victory,
but this is a pyrrhic victory, Danielle and bring things
back full circle. People have woken up. People have realized
(27:50):
that wait a second, this is not the only democracy
in the Middle East. This seems like an occupying, brutal
country whose policies are demonied Palestinian people who need self
determination and freedom, And why is my money paying for
what most people now are saying is an ongoing genocide?
(28:10):
And the polls that are released as of this week
is that Biden and n Yah who have lost independence
in this country. So not just democrats, even independents are like, yo,
why are we supporting this? Like there should be a ceasefire.
So I'm curious, Danielle, as this war goes on, and
the last thing I'll say is nen Yaho needs this war.
He's a deeply unpopular prime minister. Seventy five percent of
(28:31):
the country wants him out. If this war stops, he
will be forced to resigned. So it's in his interest
for this war to go on. It's in his interest
for Iran to retaliate, because then it whitewashes his sins
and Gaza right, the media complex here will just concentrate
on the news of the day and forget about, you know,
the thirty three thousand dead Palestinians. The question is how
(28:54):
much will Biden give up for a man who mocks him,
ridyicules him, humiliates him, and aggressively wants him to lose
the election. How much will Biden give up? And how
come Biden, who has shown some nimbleness in changing in
other aspects of his career, right in his policies. Wise,
he's so ensconced and entrenched in his defense of Naniehu
(29:17):
in Israel as it's committing what many say is an
ongoing genocide. That will be the question that he will
have to answer. And I think there will be a
cost if he does not answer that question in a
way that moves us toward a seiz fire and peace.
That's my prediction.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Oh, my friend, well, we will have to leave it
there today. But that is in fact the question that
is on the table for this administration, but for our democracy.
At what cost? What cost will it take for the
iron clad grip to cease? Thank you, my friend, for
making the time for will k F. I always appreciate you.
(30:02):
That is it for me today. Dear friends on woke
app as always, power to the people and to all
the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Host
Danielle Moodie
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