The State of Reproductive Care

Danielle Campoamor returns to Woke AF to discuss her experiences since moving to South Dakota while pregnant with her third child.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WOKF Daily with Me
your Girl, Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker, Folks.
Tomorrow is the last date of vote. It is election Day,
and today I wanted to bring you a really hard
conversation with friend of the show Danielle Campomore, who has

(00:36):
been an abortion rights advocate, a repro justice advocate, writer
for a very long time with this show, and Danielle,
in our conversation, will talk about what it is like
for her right now to be pregnant with her third
child in South Dakota, where she is moved to be

(01:00):
closer to family. And there were parts of this interview
and conversation that really just gut punched me because the
fear that Danielle has and what she lays out as
her birth plan, no woman, no person should have to
go through. And it just I appreciated her conversation this

(01:25):
interview so much in really moving what has been happening
in the headlines into a real space with a person
that I've known for years. So as some of you
are listening, you may have already voted. Others are gonna,
you know, be the traditionalist and head to the polls

(01:45):
on Tuesday. For family. For friends that may not have
voted yet, please share this episode with them so they
can understand what the stakes are if they still, for
whatever reason, find themselves on the fence. Coming up next,
my conversation with writer activist Danielle Campomore. Folks, it has

(02:14):
been a while since I've had the opportunity to speak
with our friend, freelance writer reporter Danielle Campomore, who if
you've been listening to WOKF over the years, Danielle has
provided such incredible reporting, analysis, and insight into the abortion
movement and into reproductive justice. And Danielle, we've spoken to

(02:37):
you a number of times since the overturning of Robi Wade,
but not since you have left New York to move
back to South Dakota to be closer to your family.
South Dakota being a just full on abortion band state
and you yourself are currently pregnant with your third congratulations,

(03:00):
Thank you. And I want to start off with how
does it feel to be back and the idea that
you were pregnant in a red state very different than
I'm assuming your other two pregnancies with your sons.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, I mean it's very strange. We didn't take the
decision to move back lightly. My grandfather, the matriarch of
our family, was diagnosed with Alzheimer's last November, and then
he fell and broke his hip, and now he's fallen
and broke his arm and has had surgeries. So when
we kind of realized the state of his health and

(03:36):
what the diagnosis was for him, my husband and I
sat down and made the conscious, difficult decision that, you know,
we can't get that time back with family, and legislators
be damned. We just didn't want to lose that time.
I want my boys to grow up around my grandfather
and I want memories with him. But we knew what
that meant. And I actually found out I was pregnant

(03:56):
the day we flew out to look at houses here,
and so we had to have another really difficult conversation
about is it safe for us to move here? Is
it safe for me to be pregnant here? And the
answer was no, it's not safe, and so we started
looking at places nearby in Minnesota, And so that's what
I do now. As I drive to Minnesota, it's about

(04:17):
an hour away from my home, an hour and a
half from where my children go to school for prenattle care,
and that's where I'll give birth in a state that
I don't call home. And even now, I mean I
told you a little earlier, I'm waiting to hear from
my physician. I'm having a difficult pregnancy. It is my third,
I'm thirty seven. It's automatically a high risk pregnancy. I'm
constantly sick. We've had some pre term labor scares and

(04:40):
incidences where she's trying to make sure that I can
carry this pregnancy further so that it's safer. And so
with all that just comes so much fear and anxiety
that am I going to be able to get to
my doctor on time? Am I going to be able
to have someone come watch my children? Can I drive
my self? Even what does that look like? And I'm

(05:03):
someone of privilege, I actually can leave. People in this
state can't. And so this is the only state with
a total abortion band with no exception for rape and incest,
that has abortion on the ballot this November to reinstate
Roe v. Wade era type protections for abortion care to
bring abortion care back to this state. And so that's

(05:23):
why I'm speaking to you, And so I'm writing so
much about what's what I'm currently experiencing because this should
not be happening, and the anger that I feel, on
top of all the fear and anxiety is making an
already difficult, very wanted pregnancy all the more challenging. And
it really should not be that way.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, Danielle, my heart goes out to you and your
family the decision to go home to South Dakota. You know,
we oftentimes hear a lot of people that sit comfortably
on the coasts saying to people, well, just leave your state,
just leave your state, as if it is something that
is easy. And you knowingly went into this red state

(06:05):
because of family, because of the fact that we don't
have an infinite amount of time and what does it
mean to raise your children and your family in close proximity.
Like you said, you don't get that time back. You
don't get those relationships and those memories back. Talk to
us about what it has been like over the last

(06:25):
several weeks of your pregnancy, having to usher back and
forth between your home in South Dakota and your doctors
in Minnesota. Have you gone to a doctor at all
in South Dakota.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
No, as of right now I've not gone to a
position at all in South Dakota. I've made it a
point to actively do everything that I can to make
sure that I don't have to, especially because in order
for us to make this move as soon as possible
so that I could be here for my grandfather and
my grandmother, my husband still works on the East coast,
gone for four weeks out of the year. So I

(07:02):
am here knowing that I don't have an advocate, kind
of built in via my husband that if I am
going to go to a doctor here under the worst circumstances,
I will not have someone there to make sure that
they advocate for me if I am uncapable of advocating
for myself. So no, I've not seen a South Dkota physician.
And honestly, it's not that easy here. We are close

(07:24):
to Sue Falls. I'm grateful for that, but there are
Objian deserts and Sioux Falls now because of what is
happening or in South Dakota state, excuse me, because of
the abortion band. Physicians, just like in other states, don't
want to come here. They want to go to a
place where they won't face criminal prosecution if they uphold

(07:44):
their hippocratic oath, and South Dakota is one of those
states where if you are seen for miscarriage, mismanagement care,
if you have a complicated pregnancy, doctors are afraid to
treat you, or you can't find a doctor at all.
So in terms of traveling, it's just a lot of driving.
I have created, thankfully again, I'm very privileged network of

(08:07):
the family members that I do have here to call
summer hour two hours away, but can come watch my boys.
And then it's I take my computer with me to
the hospital. I work from there. I've worked from there now,
I think more times than I've worked from home, just
because it eats up, on average, four or five hours

(08:30):
of my day to drive there to have even a
routine prenatal appointment, let alone going there again because I'm
in danger of preterm labor or I'm dealing with nausea,
and they're trying to get certain things under control. So
it's a lot of what I call kind of like
this tetris of moving around my schedule and my children

(08:54):
and making sure that I have childcare is probably the
number one most important thing, and that's kind of what's frustrating,
and I get so angry, and then even from members
of my own family are kind of like, well, is
this really necessary? Do you have to do all this?
You could just go see a doctor, and you know,
chances are maybe I could go to see a physician

(09:15):
here and nothing happens, and I have a totally routine,
normal labor delivery, pregnancy. But that is rolling the dice.
There's no if fans or butts about it, and everyone
will talk about how these are not necessary, these circumstances.
You know that I don't need to be driving, that

(09:35):
I don't need to be this stressed out or this worried,
But when it's your life, the alternative seems like such
an unfathomable risk. I have two children, I have family members,
and it's separate from that, separate from being a mom.
I have my own life, like I would like to
keep living just for myself, you know, separate from being

(09:56):
a parent. And so it was. It's some thing that
I find really frustrating is that we hear all these
stories about women bleeding out, women losing their ability to
ever have children again because of doctors delaying care, denying care,
women dying out of Georgia. For every one of those
horrible stories that should be told. There are also other
stories of this, of people being put under constraints and

(10:22):
more stress that who knows, could very well be affecting
my pregnancy, and they shouldn't be all under the name
of being pro life, and it's the exact opposite of that,
And so I think that's why it's important for these
stories to be told as well, to show the spectrum
of harm that is being caused, from even a routine
prenatal visit that ends up being four hours long because

(10:45):
of travel, to someone being told to go bleed in
the parking lot. All of this is harm being caused
by abortion bands, and none of it is okay.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
What does your word it's too much? Please just say that.
What is the plan for when you go into labor?
Is it for you to be in Minnesota, like around
or before your due date? Or like what does that
look like? Because I can't imagine driving in labor an

(11:21):
hour and a half.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, as of right now, the plan is to do
just that. If I go into labor early enough, you know,
if I catch it early enough, definitely not a wait
around type situation. But then it's to again call on
family and friends. I have a cousin near and dear
to my heart. She lives two hours away her mother

(11:44):
and father in law who I'm not related to, but
her mother and father in law live closer. They would
perhaps come watch my children so I could drive until
she can come get them, or perhaps one of them
stays and they drive me if I can't drive. So
it's just relying on this patch work of people to
hopefully step in if they can, and the event that

(12:04):
my husband's not here. If my husband's here, then hopefully
either he can help get the kids situated and drive
me and we'll be there together. But that kind of
remains to be seen too, So it's a lot of Again,
you just kind of hope that you have enough time,
and that is pretty indicative of what it's like to
be pregnant in the United States right now in a

(12:26):
post real world. Is whether you are looking to end
your unwanted pregnancy or you're looking to carry a pregnancy
to term and give birth in a safe environment with
a physician who's not going to be criminalized. You just
hope you have enough time. You have enough time to
get to where you need to be, because not every
place is safe anymore. And so in that way, it

(12:47):
is something that can't be understated. Abortion care and prenatal care,
birth care, they're all connected because you are all under
a time constraint in you're all hoping for more time,
buying for more time, especially when people are attacking the
physicians and healthcare providers who could give you the life
saving care that you may need.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Have you had the ability and I know through your freelancing,
talk to either physicians in South Dakota that have left
the state or that are still there about the toll
that it's taken on them. And do you have a
network of other pregnant people in the state that you
kind of because I can hear it in your voice, Daniel,

(13:27):
the emotional toll of all of this. You know, everybody says, oh,
when you're you know you're pregnant, like, you know, try
not to stress the baby out. In both I can't
think of a more stressful fucking time to have, you know,
than now for anyone to be pregnant, regardless of where
they are. But then on top of that, being in
a state that you can't feel safe in. What have

(13:49):
those conversations been, like I have I've.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Talked to a lot of people on the ground, a
lot of grassroots organizers who are fighting for Amendment SHEI
here in South Dakota, that is the ballot measure that
will essentially put Roe v. Wade in the state's constitution.
I've talked to physicians who have not left but are afraid,
who say that they're not sure, just like physicians in

(14:14):
other states, They're just not sure when they can intervene
and it be safe to do so without the risk
of potentially being held in criminal court. It's a felony
here in the state of South Dakota to provide abortion
care in any other circumstance, then if a person is
in danger of dying, But again, how dying is dying
enough is the question now on every physician's mind, which

(14:38):
is absurd, and so it's a scary environment for people.
At the same time, Unfortunately, like I mentioned, you do
have others who aren't awake enough to realize how dire
this is and tell it happens to them their loved one,
or they read about someone actually physically dying from an
abortion band like in Georgia, and it's frustrated that even

(15:01):
in those instances, and I know you saw this too, Danielle.
Then you have the anti abortion movement blame the women
who died for the outcome, and so there's a lot
of denial and a lot of again, this is you
just being hysterical. It really isn't this bad. And that's
what we're combating here in South Dakota, and I think

(15:22):
across the nation. That's what the referendum really is in
this election, is that yes, it really is this bad.
It really does impact people in ways both big and small.
And you're right. I mean again, the stress, the anxiety,
the constant worry, having to plan more, having to travel more,
as you get more pregnant, all those things become more

(15:42):
difficult to handle on top of everyday life. And again,
this is a choice that I made because at the
end of the day too, I want to be there
for my family. I want to be there so that
my sons can remember their great grandfather. I want to
be there so that when the incomes I can say
that I got all the time that I could and
not wishing for time for the rest of my life.

(16:05):
And these are decisions that shouldn't be impacted by a
legislature or a ban, or a Supreme court or a
president of the United States who has no idea who
I am or what my family's going through, and yet
are in the room when these decisions are being made
in a way because we have to take into accountany's laws.

(16:25):
And so I think that as a mix of so
many people sounding the alarm, physicians, people on the ground, women,
their partners, and then also people who are plugging their
ears and saying it's not so bad. It really isn't
what I see and hear, and are deciding again to

(16:46):
live in this alternative reality that Trump has continued to perpetuate,
that the GOP continues to perpetuate so that they can
sleep at night while the rest of us just try
to again buy as much time as we can to
make sure that ourselves and our families are safe.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I mean, they sleep at night, why the rest of
us live in the nightmare that they created for us.
I think that what is extraordinary is that people only
thought about abortion, and I think a very siloed manner, like, oh,
that woman over there, she doesn't want to be responsible,
she doesn't want to have a kid. That's why we
need to do away with abortion. I think that we

(17:27):
have done and I mean, like the collective we have
done a terrible job of explaining reproductive care and that
a part of reproductive care is also access to abortion
for a number of reasons, like the fact that there
are women now, one of the most famous being Chrissy
Teagan who realized that when she was miscarrying, the procedure

(17:51):
that the doctor is used on her to save her
life was in fact an abortion. But because you don't know,
because that word is not being said, and because doctors
in blue states are moving in a way or have
always moved in a way where it's just like, we're
going to do what is necessary to save this person
that is in front of us, to save their lives.

(18:13):
So we're not going through the particular saying that what
we're doing is abortion care. Right. Do you find that
that they're needed to or their needs to be still
more encompassing education for all people to understand the necessity
around abortion.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Absolutely, And I think you really hit the nail on
the head is that the collective week, especially those in
the media, have really done a poor job and have
kind of kowtowed to anti abortion narratives using their language
and really kind of hyper focusing on a specific group
of individuals who seek abortion care. The majority of people
who have abortions or parents already they have at least

(18:51):
when child at home. And then yes, abortion care is
also miscarriage management. It's also to save the life of
a person if they have an e topic pregnant, and
see it is also in a lot of instances to
preserve fertility if you have a complicated pregnancy that's going
to end in a catastrophic way. And it also, honestly

(19:13):
is there to provide peace of mind for those like
me who I am carrying a very wanted pregnancy. I'm
very excited about my pregnancy, but I want to know
that when I go and see my doctor that my
life matters and that she will put my life first.
And when your experience a pregnancy, and so much is unknown,
and it is a major medical event, and there can

(19:34):
be complications that arise that no one can foresee, you
search for any peace of mind possible. You get it
in ultrasounds hopefully, sometimes you get it in tests, and
you definitely get it from your physician. And so abortion
care is part of that peace of mind and that
autonomy that a pregnant person desperately clings to. When so

(19:55):
much of what their body is going through is out
of their control. I mean that alone, when you talk
about the mental health of a person living in a
country with a maternal mental health crisis, is also just
as valuable, and yet we don't talk about it in
these ways. So yeah, I think we need to do
a better job. And one of the ways we do
that as centering people who've had abortions and the myriad

(20:16):
of ways in which abortion care exists. We sent our
physicians who've provided abortions and myriad of ways in which
they needed to care for their patients, and we stop
using anti abortion rhetoric in language that has unfortunately been
very very persuasive, and I think that's where you're getting
so many, even Republicans. Well, that's not an abortionate treated
in actopic pregnancy, that's not an abortion. No, it is,

(20:39):
and we need to start speaking correctly and with a
full throat and our chests out about exactly what this
care encompasses, because it is vital to safe pregnancies.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Danielle, I can't thank you enough for all your thoughtful
analysis and like your guidance over the years in educating
me as well as my audience about reproductive justice, about abortion.
That can't thank you enough, and honestly, you know, sending
you prayers and really good vibes for the final weeks

(21:12):
of your pregnancy and for safe delivery.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
No, thank you, my friend, Thank you for always speaking
out about this topic and centering the people that are
impacted by it. We are not an island, as much
as it kind of feels that way right now, and
I think together there is a sea change coming and
I am very very hopeful both for this state via
this abortion amendment, but nationwide so from our lips to

(21:37):
our Lord and Savior Beyonce's years, hopefully things will get
get a little bit.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Better, get a little bit better. Thank you, my friend.
I appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yes, you too.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
That is it for me today. Dear friends on wollkf
as always, power to the people and to all the people.
Power up woke and stay woke as fuck.