May 7, 2024 • 25 mins
Have you ever been given a second chance, or even a third? What about a TENTH? That's what Donald Trump is currently being given by the American "justice" system.
Skye Perryman, President & CEO of Democracy Forward, returns to discuss recent Supreme Court cases and what's on the horizon in the current session.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wik f Daily with
me your girl, Danielle Moody, recording from the home bunker.
I have a question to start out today's show. What
was the last time that any of you received a
tenth try at anything? You know, you get a first try,
(00:33):
you get a second try, maybe sometimes you even get
a third try. What was the last time? Somebody said
the last nine, but here you go, here's number ten.
I'm pretty sure that the answer is going to be.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Never.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But if your name is Donald Trump, then you get
as many tries as there are humanly available, and even
after that, we'll just keep manufacturing them. But Judge Merchant,
the judge in the hush money bribery case, has now
(01:14):
held Donald Trump in contempt of court for the tenth time.
For the tenth time, Donald Trump has violated the gag order.
For the tenth time Donald Trump has violated a court order.
And Judge Marshan, you know, directly addressing Donald Trump, says,
(01:35):
you know, I'm not basically above threatening jail time. And
here's my thing. Can we just stop with the fucking
threats and just get to the doing. And if you're
gonna say that, holding Donald Trump in prison would be
a logistical nightmare because of the Secret Service, because of this.
Because of that, then I have another idea. Maybe you
(01:57):
start finding Donald Trump in a way that is actually
fucking painful and on par with however much money he
lies about having in the bank. So we know that
the appeals judge in his you know, other fraud trial
with in terms of how he ballooned the costs of
(02:18):
his real estate properties, he was supposed to pay out
half a billion dollars and there wasn't going to be
a bank that was going to give him that money.
And then, of course an appeals court comes back and
they lower it and then he's able to pay it off.
My thing is start making it actually fucking hurt, and
then maybe Donald Trump will shut the fuck up. So
(02:40):
if for every time that he violates the court's gag order,
it is going to cost him one hundred thousand dollars,
and we know that that is going to happen on
a weekly basis, then you're talking about by the end
of the month him racking up somewhere between four hundred
and five hundred thousand dollars. That to me makes fucking sense.
(03:02):
But if you're just gonna roll out and say, oh, well,
I'm gonna find you one thousand dollars. What the fuck
Donald Trump spends that at McDonald's for lunch. So I'm
just like, I'm tired of the consistent finger wagging at
Donald Trump and the empty threats that are never going to,
(03:22):
you know, measure up to anything, or like the moments
that we think that the justice system has finally caught
up to him, only to make an entire u turn
and start the erase over again. I'm just fucking over
it because you all know that if it were any
of us that were on trial, we would have been
in jail. Oh I don't know. Nine times ago people
(03:43):
are thrown in contempt of court folks for showing up
late to their trial by a few minutes. Do you
know what I'm saying, in order to teach them a lesson.
So if you want to teach Donald Trump a lesson
and it's too much of an obstacle to throw him
in jail, then I I say that you start making
it financially painful for him to shut the fuck up.
(04:07):
Like I you know it, just like in so many ways,
everything is just beyond exhaustion. I don't know what we
go beyond exhaustion. Is it burnout, is it a coma?
I have no fucking idea, But I do know that
I'm completely and totally over every single one of these
lawsuits that are never going to see any outcome before
(04:28):
twenty twenty four, the election. And the fact is that
I continue to say that the only thing that is
going to hold Donald Trump accountable are the American people
voting to end his political career, to end the political party. Finally,
that's it. You know, After that, then the justice system
will be clear to actually treat Donald Trump the way
(04:51):
that he should be treated, because you won't be running
for a political office and won't be able to say
that this is some type of political witch hunt. It'll
just be another fucking old, privileged white dude on trial
for shit that shit caught up to him four decades ago.
I digress, folks. Coming up next, I'm gonna be in
(05:13):
conversation once again with friend of the show, and you
know someone who I think provides a great deal of
clarity to us, which is Sky Perriman, who is the
CEO of Democracy Forward, is going to join me to
(05:33):
discuss you know, where we are right now, in this moment,
as we make the slow march to the election, and
what they think is necessary to make the American people
aware that this election is not the most consequential, it
is going to be the last election of the United States,
if in fact people decide to either sit out or
(05:54):
vote for Donald Trump. That conversation is coming up next, folks.
I am so excited to welcome back to ook f Daily,
the president and CEO of Democracy Forward, Sky Perryman, to
give us kind of you know, Sky, Democracy Forward. What
(06:15):
is it's kind of like Democracy Forward? Question mark. I
feel like you need you need to add to the
to the organization website and branding. But I don't know
what's happening. I don't you know, you tell me because
between right now, following the Supreme Court, following h Donald
(06:35):
Trump's cases before the Supreme Court in Manhattan, you know,
and and following what is happening with the Biden campaign,
It's just it's a lot. So I want to start
off with asking you what are you all keeping track of?
What do we need to be you know, honestly paying
attention to because as of the time of this recording,
(06:59):
we are are less than two hundred days away from
election day, which every day I'm not going to provide
my audience with a countdown because I don't want them
to lose their mind. But it's wild where we are,
So talk to me. Where is democracy forward and where
are you? Well?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
We are both fighting for democracy and fighting to move
the country forward, not backward, and that is a real
fight right now. So thanks for having me on. I
think you know, in terms of what to pay attention to,
I always like to ground ourselves in what we know,
which is that the vast majority of the American people
(07:37):
are pretty fair minded people, that they believe in the
promise of democracy. They may not agree on everything, that
there are some basic things that we believe in the
promis of democracy. That our country has changed a lot
since it was founded, and that there are a lot
more people that look like you, there are a lot
more people that look like me, There are a lot
more people that look like all of our friends and neighbors.
(07:58):
And that we are a real multi race, multi generational,
diverse society. And that there is a movement to seek
to push us back to a time where that was
not the case, or where power structures sought to undermine
the ability of so many people to be able to
determine who governs them, to be able to determine their
(08:19):
lives and their futures. And so that's what we're fighting for.
So just yesterday I was at the Supreme Court where
the Court heard a case concerning access to abortion in
emergency situations, with people who literally go into an emergency
room with life and health threatening conditions. This extremism has
(08:39):
gone so far extreme that we are having to basically
beg at the Supreme Court as women to be treated
as fully human to be able to approach an emergency
room like everyone else in this country and be given
the care that we need in emergent situations. And that
we saw that on display yesterday at the Supreme Court.
(09:01):
There was literally a debate about how many organs a
woman has that needs to be threatened before she can
obtain an IDAHO, for instance, the care that she needs.
We have women in this country being life flighted out
of hospitals because they cannot get the care to save
their health and their life or even their fertility. And
that was yesterday at the Court, and then today at
(09:22):
the Court we have seen questioning that suggests that there
is a movement in this country that believes that a
person who has held political office can engage in all
sorts of unlawful activity and it's just their prerogative. And
that is really not what a democracy is. So we
are watching a lot. We're watching what's in the courts,
(09:44):
we're watching what is in communities across the country. But
we're also watching, you know, the hope that we can
have in this moment, if we all use our lives
and if we all do what we can in this
moment to say that this narrow, rigid, back words vision
for the country does not represent you, it doesn't represent me,
(10:04):
and it doesn't represent the vast majority of people in
this country. And we need to use all the tools
we have to fight back. So I'll start maybe I'll
just start with that, that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It is. It is a lot, you know, and it's
and it's hard. I think it's hard even for us
whose job it is right to pay attention to all
of the things that are happening and to try and
make them digestible, to try and encourage people to engage
that for lay people to understand and keep track, right,
it's nearly impossible I want to go to the Idaho
(10:38):
case and lift that up that you were just discussing,
because I have to tell you that listening to the
five men on the Supreme Court, particularly Justice Alito, just
glossing over the health, the safety and well being of
women and pregnant people is wild to me. And I
(10:58):
honestly think you know, and I you know this is
me saying this and not you, that cruelty really is
the point, right, Because if a group of doctors recently
sent an open letter to the Supreme Court saying, how
many seces of blood does a woman have to lose
before we can proceed with an abortion? How much oxygen
(11:23):
right to your point, how many organs need to be
in failure? Right? How far along does the sepsist need
to be? These are people that went to law school,
they didn't go to medical school. They didn't swear an
oath to do no harm, because all they're doing is harm.
So I wonder when we're thinking about how we move
democracy forward sky and democracy not only does it it's
(11:46):
not stuck, it's being rolled backwards. What does it look
like in the next you know, less than two hundred
days to galvanize people to the severity of the situation
that we're in.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, I'm glad you asked that question. I'll just say,
you know, in the in the Iaho case, I'm a
counsel for the nation's medical associations doctors from her doctors
to obg I N's to internal medicine physicians that are
coming to the court to say this is really contrary
to our medical ethics and it's not why we got
into this business, and it's not the way you treat patients,
(12:23):
and there's real harm. But to your question about galvanization
of people, I think we need to be able to
look at this reality in the face and to not blink.
And so it's telling stories about what we saw yesterday
and not trying to make people feel better about it.
I was in the courts in the courtroom watching this
(12:43):
exchange about how severe something needs to be. Are people
looking down at their papers on the dais when when
Justice Sodomayor was reading the accounts that have been filed
with the court. And we need to be able to
sit in this reality and not really. In twenty twenty one,
the United States was added to a list of backsliding
(13:05):
democracies in the world, and we're the only country that's
not part of the Global South, and that was not
a former USSR affiliate country that is on that list.
We are a complete outlier for that list. And that
was the state of democracy in twenty twenty one before
we started looking at the threats and seeing the threats
(13:26):
we have today. One of the things we need to
galvanize around that. If your listeners are tuning in, please
go google it, learn about it, talk about it is
something called Project twenty twenty five YEP, which is a
project that has been put out. It is nine hundred pages.
I have read it, so I'm happy to come on
and talk about that at some point in more detail.
But it is a man asserted effort, a manifesto, a
(13:50):
concerted effort of a society that they want a society
where we are not prioritizing our climate, we're not prioritizing
our workers in our workforce. We're criminalizing women's health on
a national basis, as opposed to now where we have
a lot of states that are seeking to criminalize women's health.
And all I could think about yesterday in the courtroom,
(14:10):
that's how powerful it was that the United States was
who was there, represented by our Solicitor General was there,
and they were there on the side of the federal government,
and they were there on the side of women who
need emergency care. And that doesn't happen right if we're
looking at Project twenty twenty five. We don't have that
(14:31):
Solicitor General, and we don't have the United States government,
at least the federal government putting its full full force
behind some of these issues. And so I think the
stakes are really high. But for galvanizing, we've got to
be able to sit in this reality. We've got to
be able to have these conversations and talk to people
about it. And if it makes you uncomfortable, it should,
(14:53):
and that discomfort should get you motivated to do anything
you can do at this moment in our country.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Let's switch gears to the presidential immunity case, which is
extraordinarily dangerous. I think that sky it goes beyond just
dangerous for democracy. What the Trump lawyers are arguing is
that presidents are absolutely one hundred percent above the law.
(15:25):
And I thought about something before we even started recording,
and I said, my god, how bleak of the times
that we are living in. With the argument that the
Trump lawyers are putting forward basically, the president of the
United States could kill the first lady in the White
House and nothing would happen to them, could order the
(15:46):
Secret Service protection to kill the first lady in the
White House and in less according to the Trump attorneys,
they were convicted under impeachment, and then it went to
a lower court and a court isci you know, it
would basically be okay, your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Well, I think this is one of the most critical
representations of how this moment that we're in the country
where you have you know, one day, we're debating about
how many organs women have to lose at the Supreme Court.
At the other day, we're hearing arguments about how a
country that was founded on the idea that there are
no kings and queens, on the idea that no one
(16:28):
is above the law, we're now in a situation where
we're having and seeing this being given, you know, and
seeing this extremism. So, you know, I think this is
definitely something to pay attention to. But I want to
make sure your listeners because we've been talking with a
lot of media and you know, everybody's very they're following this,
(16:48):
They're following the trial in Manhattan. That's very important and
it symbolizes where we are in the country. But you know,
last year we had over four thousand fans and communities
throughout the country. We have access to healthcare issues. There
are still people that are making such low wages that
they can't put food on their table, and the price
(17:10):
of food is where it is. And so I just
want to also ground us in not falling for thinking
about the very tip of the headline and not really
looking at how we can be part of a change
and holding people accountable to the American people, not just
on one or two issues, but on all the issues
(17:32):
that are so critical and so intertwined and under attack
at this moment. So that's one thing I'll say. But
I do think you know, the other thing we know
from history is that when democracies fall, you can go
look at it. They often fall because people take for
granted they think, well, that could never happen here. And
(17:55):
so I really want your listeners to just and I
think you do a good job of it on your show.
Oh but we've got to come to the reality. This
is what was happening in the Supreme Court today, this
is what people are suggesting, and we had questioning from
the justices suggesting that you know, if you hold the
president accountable to the laws, well then the president may
(18:16):
not we may not want to like move on from
a peaceful transition of power. That is, you know that
this is the kind of situation that we're seeing, which
is just an extremism from from some of the justices
as well as from Council in that case. And so
we have power in this country. We don't have to
stick with courts that are rigged. We don't have to
(18:37):
stick with a rig gain. We don't have to coordinate
our leaders as kings and queens, and we need to
be thinking about in using all the tools our democracy provides.
It's voting, but it's being informed, it's advocating. We're going
to be in court, you know, arguing for the right things,
but it's we need to be using all of those
tools at this time.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Do you think Sky right now that the average American
is paying attention to the things outside, Like you said
of the tip of the headline, I don't even know
if they're paying attention to the headline. So I'm wondering
because like to me, everything is about civic engagement and
also education. But the Republicans have made it clear exactly
(19:22):
what it is that they want to do. I've talked
about Project twenty twenty five for the last year on
this show. Yep, you know, to raise the alarm and
say it's not something that they're doing behind closed doors,
like it's on their website. You can download it, it's free,
and so I just wonder do you think Americans are
paying attention. Do you think that they recognize that this
(19:45):
election really is the most consequential election or have we
been saying that for too long that it doesn't resonate anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, I think what we know is that people are
concerned and concerned about issues. So they're concerned about how
they're going to afford their life, what the economy is
going to be, like, they're concerned about healthcare, they're concerned
about their kids' education. We know that on those issues,
(20:16):
and what we've got to do is to make sure
that we're educating people about this movement that is afoot
in the country. The Project twenty twenty five early represents
this highly coordinated far right movement that is finding common
cause with other interests and that seeking to normalize this
five alarm fire. I mean, I'm going to say, you know,
(20:38):
the democracy has been under threat for many years for
their entire existence for many people who aren't included in
our nation's founding, and it has been an urgent matter
that needs to be addressed, and it remains urgent. But
what we're seeing now is just on on a wider scale.
(21:01):
Were even even rights of people who have enjoyed more
privileged throughout the country, even rights of people those are
now being threatened, and we're now seeing even you know,
this is just a much It's a much more extreme
version of a lot of a lot of the fights.
And so I think that paying attention really matters. But
(21:22):
educating and making sure that we all understand how this
affects our lives. Dobbs has been devastating. One of the
things that it did, though, was it has forced people
to come to grips in many ways with what this
really means, as the harrowing accounts that Justice Sotomayor and
others were referring to yesterday at the argument. And so
(21:42):
I think we really need to be able to connect
for people where the threats to our democracy are coming from.
And then what tools we have to push back.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
I think that it is incredibly important to remind people
of the two that we do have tools, right, Like,
That's the point of my show and my work is
to remind people that they still have power, even though
they may find themselves in a really dark moment and
place right now in our democracy. You know, just a
last question for you for those people who feel extraordinarily
(22:19):
bleak right, who are thinking and I they're all over
my social media page about not voting or not voting
for democracy, and they're serious about it. They say they
can't stomach it. What do you say, Well, look.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Our country is only as strong and our democracy is
only as real as the people who are going to
keep it that way. And so whether that is volunteering
in your local community, signing up to vote, you know,
getting involved civically listening to the show and then talking
to three friends about these issues. Being willing to sit
with the discomfort and the injustice at this moment and
(22:59):
to voice and to do something about it. It is
going to take all of us. And we have seen
in prior times where people thought, well, it couldn't get that,
you know, it couldn't get worse. I mean, we saw
you know before it was always well everyone was saying
Roby Wade is under threat, and it was like, well,
that's really not going to happen. Well, you know it has,
(23:20):
and we're now having debates at the US Supreme Court
about how many women have to die and how many
organs women have to lose in order to get healthcare.
And so I think that we know that these are
matters that concern the well being of people in communities,
and there should you know, we can't be apathetic and
maybe that there's something that motivates you. There's a lot
(23:42):
of ways that people can get involved, and not everybody
needs to be Not everybody's an activist. Not everybody's going
to show up to a rally or hold a sign.
Not everybody wants to run for office. Not everybody wants
to be a lawyer, not everybody wants to be a journalist.
But there are things that we can do in our
individual lives. Libraries are under attack, schools are under attack,
public servants are under attack. You know, find a way
(24:05):
in your community, in your localized setting to get involved
and get involved civically and to see the people in
communities that are at stake, and then we have to
use our power to try to make things better. And
one of those powers is obviously getting involved in making
sure that we're voting and that we're showing up for democracy.
But there's a lot of other things as well. So
(24:25):
I would just say, you know, I couldn't do my
job if I didn't have hope. And what gives me
hope is seeing the people yesterday. I mean, we had
doctors from across the country, patients from across the country
at the Supreme Court demanding more. We see this in
schools across the country. Is people that are saying, you know,
(24:45):
democracy is not going to fall on my watch, and
I'm going to do what I can in this moment.
I had a cab driver the other day that said
to me he was a former civil servant. He's retired,
he drives in retirement, and he wanted to talk. We
drove past the Washington Monument. He wanted to talk about
our country, and he said, you know, now is the
(25:05):
time that good people need to come to the aid
of their country. And that was a when he was
when he was in civil service in the civil rights movement.
This was something and in the Vietnam War that people said,
and he said that it was a good saying for today,
and I think it is now is the time that
good people need to come to the aid of their country.
(25:26):
And so thanks for having me on, and we all
got our hat to hold on to that home.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yes we are. Thank you, Skuy. Always appreciate you, Thank you.
That is it for me today. Dear friends on woke
ay app as always, Power to the people and to
all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wik f Daily with
me your girl, Danielle Moody, recording from the home bunker.
I have a question to start out today's show. What
was the last time that any of you received a
tenth try at anything? You know, you get a first try,
(00:33):
you get a second try, maybe sometimes you even get
a third try. What was the last time? Somebody said
the last nine, but here you go, here's number ten.
I'm pretty sure that the answer is going to be.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Never.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But if your name is Donald Trump, then you get
as many tries as there are humanly available, and even
after that, we'll just keep manufacturing them. But Judge Merchant,
the judge in the hush money bribery case, has now
(01:14):
held Donald Trump in contempt of court for the tenth time.
For the tenth time, Donald Trump has violated the gag order.
For the tenth time Donald Trump has violated a court order.
And Judge Marshan, you know, directly addressing Donald Trump, says,
(01:35):
you know, I'm not basically above threatening jail time. And
here's my thing. Can we just stop with the fucking
threats and just get to the doing. And if you're
gonna say that, holding Donald Trump in prison would be
a logistical nightmare because of the Secret Service, because of this.
Because of that, then I have another idea. Maybe you
(01:57):
start finding Donald Trump in a way that is actually
fucking painful and on par with however much money he
lies about having in the bank. So we know that
the appeals judge in his you know, other fraud trial
with in terms of how he ballooned the costs of
(02:18):
his real estate properties, he was supposed to pay out
half a billion dollars and there wasn't going to be
a bank that was going to give him that money.
And then, of course an appeals court comes back and
they lower it and then he's able to pay it off.
My thing is start making it actually fucking hurt, and
then maybe Donald Trump will shut the fuck up. So
(02:40):
if for every time that he violates the court's gag order,
it is going to cost him one hundred thousand dollars,
and we know that that is going to happen on
a weekly basis, then you're talking about by the end
of the month him racking up somewhere between four hundred
and five hundred thousand dollars. That to me makes fucking sense.
(03:02):
But if you're just gonna roll out and say, oh, well,
I'm gonna find you one thousand dollars. What the fuck
Donald Trump spends that at McDonald's for lunch. So I'm
just like, I'm tired of the consistent finger wagging at
Donald Trump and the empty threats that are never going to,
(03:22):
you know, measure up to anything, or like the moments
that we think that the justice system has finally caught
up to him, only to make an entire u turn
and start the erase over again. I'm just fucking over
it because you all know that if it were any
of us that were on trial, we would have been
in jail. Oh I don't know. Nine times ago people
(03:43):
are thrown in contempt of court folks for showing up
late to their trial by a few minutes. Do you
know what I'm saying, in order to teach them a lesson.
So if you want to teach Donald Trump a lesson
and it's too much of an obstacle to throw him
in jail, then I I say that you start making
it financially painful for him to shut the fuck up.
(04:07):
Like I you know it, just like in so many ways,
everything is just beyond exhaustion. I don't know what we
go beyond exhaustion. Is it burnout, is it a coma?
I have no fucking idea, But I do know that
I'm completely and totally over every single one of these
lawsuits that are never going to see any outcome before
(04:28):
twenty twenty four, the election. And the fact is that
I continue to say that the only thing that is
going to hold Donald Trump accountable are the American people
voting to end his political career, to end the political party. Finally,
that's it. You know, After that, then the justice system
will be clear to actually treat Donald Trump the way
(04:51):
that he should be treated, because you won't be running
for a political office and won't be able to say
that this is some type of political witch hunt. It'll
just be another fucking old, privileged white dude on trial
for shit that shit caught up to him four decades ago.
I digress, folks. Coming up next, I'm gonna be in
(05:13):
conversation once again with friend of the show, and you
know someone who I think provides a great deal of
clarity to us, which is Sky Perriman, who is the
CEO of Democracy Forward, is going to join me to
(05:33):
discuss you know, where we are right now, in this moment,
as we make the slow march to the election, and
what they think is necessary to make the American people
aware that this election is not the most consequential, it
is going to be the last election of the United States,
if in fact people decide to either sit out or
(05:54):
vote for Donald Trump. That conversation is coming up next, folks.
I am so excited to welcome back to ook f Daily,
the president and CEO of Democracy Forward, Sky Perryman, to
give us kind of you know, Sky, Democracy Forward. What
(06:15):
is it's kind of like Democracy Forward? Question mark. I
feel like you need you need to add to the
to the organization website and branding. But I don't know
what's happening. I don't you know, you tell me because
between right now, following the Supreme Court, following h Donald
(06:35):
Trump's cases before the Supreme Court in Manhattan, you know,
and and following what is happening with the Biden campaign,
It's just it's a lot. So I want to start
off with asking you what are you all keeping track of?
What do we need to be you know, honestly paying
attention to because as of the time of this recording,
(06:59):
we are are less than two hundred days away from
election day, which every day I'm not going to provide
my audience with a countdown because I don't want them
to lose their mind. But it's wild where we are,
So talk to me. Where is democracy forward and where
are you? Well?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
We are both fighting for democracy and fighting to move
the country forward, not backward, and that is a real
fight right now. So thanks for having me on. I
think you know, in terms of what to pay attention to,
I always like to ground ourselves in what we know,
which is that the vast majority of the American people
(07:37):
are pretty fair minded people, that they believe in the
promise of democracy. They may not agree on everything, that
there are some basic things that we believe in the
promis of democracy. That our country has changed a lot
since it was founded, and that there are a lot
more people that look like you, there are a lot
more people that look like me, There are a lot
more people that look like all of our friends and neighbors.
(07:58):
And that we are a real multi race, multi generational,
diverse society. And that there is a movement to seek
to push us back to a time where that was
not the case, or where power structures sought to undermine
the ability of so many people to be able to
determine who governs them, to be able to determine their
(08:19):
lives and their futures. And so that's what we're fighting for.
So just yesterday I was at the Supreme Court where
the Court heard a case concerning access to abortion in
emergency situations, with people who literally go into an emergency
room with life and health threatening conditions. This extremism has
(08:39):
gone so far extreme that we are having to basically
beg at the Supreme Court as women to be treated
as fully human to be able to approach an emergency
room like everyone else in this country and be given
the care that we need in emergent situations. And that
we saw that on display yesterday at the Supreme Court.
(09:01):
There was literally a debate about how many organs a
woman has that needs to be threatened before she can
obtain an IDAHO, for instance, the care that she needs.
We have women in this country being life flighted out
of hospitals because they cannot get the care to save
their health and their life or even their fertility. And
that was yesterday at the Court, and then today at
(09:22):
the Court we have seen questioning that suggests that there
is a movement in this country that believes that a
person who has held political office can engage in all
sorts of unlawful activity and it's just their prerogative. And
that is really not what a democracy is. So we
are watching a lot. We're watching what's in the courts,
(09:44):
we're watching what is in communities across the country. But
we're also watching, you know, the hope that we can
have in this moment, if we all use our lives
and if we all do what we can in this
moment to say that this narrow, rigid, back words vision
for the country does not represent you, it doesn't represent me,
(10:04):
and it doesn't represent the vast majority of people in
this country. And we need to use all the tools
we have to fight back. So I'll start maybe I'll
just start with that, that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
It is. It is a lot, you know, and it's
and it's hard. I think it's hard even for us
whose job it is right to pay attention to all
of the things that are happening and to try and
make them digestible, to try and encourage people to engage
that for lay people to understand and keep track, right,
it's nearly impossible I want to go to the Idaho
(10:38):
case and lift that up that you were just discussing,
because I have to tell you that listening to the
five men on the Supreme Court, particularly Justice Alito, just
glossing over the health, the safety and well being of
women and pregnant people is wild to me. And I
(10:58):
honestly think you know, and I you know this is
me saying this and not you, that cruelty really is
the point, right, Because if a group of doctors recently
sent an open letter to the Supreme Court saying, how
many seces of blood does a woman have to lose
before we can proceed with an abortion? How much oxygen
(11:23):
right to your point, how many organs need to be
in failure? Right? How far along does the sepsist need
to be? These are people that went to law school,
they didn't go to medical school. They didn't swear an
oath to do no harm, because all they're doing is harm.
So I wonder when we're thinking about how we move
democracy forward sky and democracy not only does it it's
(11:46):
not stuck, it's being rolled backwards. What does it look
like in the next you know, less than two hundred
days to galvanize people to the severity of the situation
that we're in.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, I'm glad you asked that question. I'll just say,
you know, in the in the Iaho case, I'm a
counsel for the nation's medical associations doctors from her doctors
to obg I N's to internal medicine physicians that are
coming to the court to say this is really contrary
to our medical ethics and it's not why we got
into this business, and it's not the way you treat patients,
(12:23):
and there's real harm. But to your question about galvanization
of people, I think we need to be able to
look at this reality in the face and to not blink.
And so it's telling stories about what we saw yesterday
and not trying to make people feel better about it.
I was in the courts in the courtroom watching this
(12:43):
exchange about how severe something needs to be. Are people
looking down at their papers on the dais when when
Justice Sodomayor was reading the accounts that have been filed
with the court. And we need to be able to
sit in this reality and not really. In twenty twenty one,
the United States was added to a list of backsliding
(13:05):
democracies in the world, and we're the only country that's
not part of the Global South, and that was not
a former USSR affiliate country that is on that list.
We are a complete outlier for that list. And that
was the state of democracy in twenty twenty one before
we started looking at the threats and seeing the threats
(13:26):
we have today. One of the things we need to
galvanize around that. If your listeners are tuning in, please
go google it, learn about it, talk about it is
something called Project twenty twenty five YEP, which is a
project that has been put out. It is nine hundred pages.
I have read it, so I'm happy to come on
and talk about that at some point in more detail.
But it is a man asserted effort, a manifesto, a
(13:50):
concerted effort of a society that they want a society
where we are not prioritizing our climate, we're not prioritizing
our workers in our workforce. We're criminalizing women's health on
a national basis, as opposed to now where we have
a lot of states that are seeking to criminalize women's health.
And all I could think about yesterday in the courtroom,
(14:10):
that's how powerful it was that the United States was
who was there, represented by our Solicitor General was there,
and they were there on the side of the federal government,
and they were there on the side of women who
need emergency care. And that doesn't happen right if we're
looking at Project twenty twenty five. We don't have that
(14:31):
Solicitor General, and we don't have the United States government,
at least the federal government putting its full full force
behind some of these issues. And so I think the
stakes are really high. But for galvanizing, we've got to
be able to sit in this reality. We've got to
be able to have these conversations and talk to people
about it. And if it makes you uncomfortable, it should,
(14:53):
and that discomfort should get you motivated to do anything
you can do at this moment in our country.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Let's switch gears to the presidential immunity case, which is
extraordinarily dangerous. I think that sky it goes beyond just
dangerous for democracy. What the Trump lawyers are arguing is
that presidents are absolutely one hundred percent above the law.
(15:25):
And I thought about something before we even started recording,
and I said, my god, how bleak of the times
that we are living in. With the argument that the
Trump lawyers are putting forward basically, the president of the
United States could kill the first lady in the White
House and nothing would happen to them, could order the
(15:46):
Secret Service protection to kill the first lady in the
White House and in less according to the Trump attorneys,
they were convicted under impeachment, and then it went to
a lower court and a court isci you know, it
would basically be okay, your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Well, I think this is one of the most critical
representations of how this moment that we're in the country
where you have you know, one day, we're debating about
how many organs women have to lose at the Supreme Court.
At the other day, we're hearing arguments about how a
country that was founded on the idea that there are
no kings and queens, on the idea that no one
(16:28):
is above the law, we're now in a situation where
we're having and seeing this being given, you know, and
seeing this extremism. So, you know, I think this is
definitely something to pay attention to. But I want to
make sure your listeners because we've been talking with a
lot of media and you know, everybody's very they're following this,
(16:48):
They're following the trial in Manhattan. That's very important and
it symbolizes where we are in the country. But you know,
last year we had over four thousand fans and communities
throughout the country. We have access to healthcare issues. There
are still people that are making such low wages that
they can't put food on their table, and the price
(17:10):
of food is where it is. And so I just
want to also ground us in not falling for thinking
about the very tip of the headline and not really
looking at how we can be part of a change
and holding people accountable to the American people, not just
on one or two issues, but on all the issues
(17:32):
that are so critical and so intertwined and under attack
at this moment. So that's one thing I'll say. But
I do think you know, the other thing we know
from history is that when democracies fall, you can go
look at it. They often fall because people take for
granted they think, well, that could never happen here. And
(17:55):
so I really want your listeners to just and I
think you do a good job of it on your show.
Oh but we've got to come to the reality. This
is what was happening in the Supreme Court today, this
is what people are suggesting, and we had questioning from
the justices suggesting that you know, if you hold the
president accountable to the laws, well then the president may
(18:16):
not we may not want to like move on from
a peaceful transition of power. That is, you know that
this is the kind of situation that we're seeing, which
is just an extremism from from some of the justices
as well as from Council in that case. And so
we have power in this country. We don't have to
stick with courts that are rigged. We don't have to
(18:37):
stick with a rig gain. We don't have to coordinate
our leaders as kings and queens, and we need to
be thinking about in using all the tools our democracy provides.
It's voting, but it's being informed, it's advocating. We're going
to be in court, you know, arguing for the right things,
but it's we need to be using all of those
tools at this time.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Do you think Sky right now that the average American
is paying attention to the things outside, Like you said
of the tip of the headline, I don't even know
if they're paying attention to the headline. So I'm wondering
because like to me, everything is about civic engagement and
also education. But the Republicans have made it clear exactly
(19:22):
what it is that they want to do. I've talked
about Project twenty twenty five for the last year on
this show. Yep, you know, to raise the alarm and
say it's not something that they're doing behind closed doors,
like it's on their website. You can download it, it's free,
and so I just wonder do you think Americans are
paying attention. Do you think that they recognize that this
(19:45):
election really is the most consequential election or have we
been saying that for too long that it doesn't resonate anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, I think what we know is that people are
concerned and concerned about issues. So they're concerned about how
they're going to afford their life, what the economy is
going to be, like, they're concerned about healthcare, they're concerned
about their kids' education. We know that on those issues,
(20:16):
and what we've got to do is to make sure
that we're educating people about this movement that is afoot
in the country. The Project twenty twenty five early represents
this highly coordinated far right movement that is finding common
cause with other interests and that seeking to normalize this
five alarm fire. I mean, I'm going to say, you know,
(20:38):
the democracy has been under threat for many years for
their entire existence for many people who aren't included in
our nation's founding, and it has been an urgent matter
that needs to be addressed, and it remains urgent. But
what we're seeing now is just on on a wider scale.
(21:01):
Were even even rights of people who have enjoyed more
privileged throughout the country, even rights of people those are
now being threatened, and we're now seeing even you know,
this is just a much It's a much more extreme
version of a lot of a lot of the fights.
And so I think that paying attention really matters. But
(21:22):
educating and making sure that we all understand how this
affects our lives. Dobbs has been devastating. One of the
things that it did, though, was it has forced people
to come to grips in many ways with what this
really means, as the harrowing accounts that Justice Sotomayor and
others were referring to yesterday at the argument. And so
(21:42):
I think we really need to be able to connect
for people where the threats to our democracy are coming from.
And then what tools we have to push back.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
I think that it is incredibly important to remind people
of the two that we do have tools, right, Like,
That's the point of my show and my work is
to remind people that they still have power, even though
they may find themselves in a really dark moment and
place right now in our democracy. You know, just a
last question for you for those people who feel extraordinarily
(22:19):
bleak right, who are thinking and I they're all over
my social media page about not voting or not voting
for democracy, and they're serious about it. They say they
can't stomach it. What do you say, Well, look.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Our country is only as strong and our democracy is
only as real as the people who are going to
keep it that way. And so whether that is volunteering
in your local community, signing up to vote, you know,
getting involved civically listening to the show and then talking
to three friends about these issues. Being willing to sit
with the discomfort and the injustice at this moment and
(22:59):
to voice and to do something about it. It is
going to take all of us. And we have seen
in prior times where people thought, well, it couldn't get that,
you know, it couldn't get worse. I mean, we saw
you know before it was always well everyone was saying
Roby Wade is under threat, and it was like, well,
that's really not going to happen. Well, you know it has,
(23:20):
and we're now having debates at the US Supreme Court
about how many women have to die and how many
organs women have to lose in order to get healthcare.
And so I think that we know that these are
matters that concern the well being of people in communities,
and there should you know, we can't be apathetic and
maybe that there's something that motivates you. There's a lot
(23:42):
of ways that people can get involved, and not everybody
needs to be Not everybody's an activist. Not everybody's going
to show up to a rally or hold a sign.
Not everybody wants to run for office. Not everybody wants
to be a lawyer, not everybody wants to be a journalist.
But there are things that we can do in our
individual lives. Libraries are under attack, schools are under attack,
public servants are under attack. You know, find a way
(24:05):
in your community, in your localized setting to get involved
and get involved civically and to see the people in
communities that are at stake, and then we have to
use our power to try to make things better. And
one of those powers is obviously getting involved in making
sure that we're voting and that we're showing up for democracy.
But there's a lot of other things as well. So
(24:25):
I would just say, you know, I couldn't do my
job if I didn't have hope. And what gives me
hope is seeing the people yesterday. I mean, we had
doctors from across the country, patients from across the country
at the Supreme Court demanding more. We see this in
schools across the country. Is people that are saying, you know,
(24:45):
democracy is not going to fall on my watch, and
I'm going to do what I can in this moment.
I had a cab driver the other day that said
to me he was a former civil servant. He's retired,
he drives in retirement, and he wanted to talk. We
drove past the Washington Monument. He wanted to talk about
our country, and he said, you know, now is the
(25:05):
time that good people need to come to the aid
of their country. And that was a when he was
when he was in civil service in the civil rights movement.
This was something and in the Vietnam War that people said,
and he said that it was a good saying for today,
and I think it is now is the time that
good people need to come to the aid of their country.
(25:26):
And so thanks for having me on, and we all
got our hat to hold on to that home.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yes we are. Thank you, Skuy. Always appreciate you, Thank you.
That is it for me today. Dear friends on woke
ay app as always, Power to the people and to
all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Host
Danielle Moodie
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