July 18, 2024 • 25 mins
Bridget Todd, host of There Are No Girls On The Internet, returns to Woke AF Daily to talk about the consolidation of the few big social media sites, generative AI, and the other technological developments that have impacted our society over the last year.
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OKF Daily with Me
your Girl. Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker Today.
I woke up and did not want to get out
of bed, and so I laid there for at least
forty five minutes. I am feeling incredibly heavy, incredibly low,
(00:34):
and doing all that I can to muster the energy
to keep pushing forward. We've all been dealing with just
non stop havoc on our nervous systems for the last
two weeks. But if we're really honest, the last eight years,
(00:57):
and so, if you do find yourself like I do,
where you are at a very low point, you find
yourself at a very low moment. I want to offer
to you to just give into what your body needs,
which is rest, which is a social media break, which
(01:17):
is a news break, and go and do things that
nourish you. Because what I think is happening right now
with this inundation of just bad judges, bad decisions, bad
people gaining power and reverence on social media, in corporate media,
(01:40):
the fall of our democracy, of places like MSNBC who
now have pretty much shown and revealed who they are
with inviting Eric Trump on air, Katie Turr really with
removing Mourning Joe from the air and lying to the
(02:01):
hosts about why really like, that's what we're doing, all
to comply and be complicit in the anointing of Donald
Trump as king. It's vile and it's disgusting, and I
think that more and more people are recognizing that they
are not to be trusted. And so I just woke
(02:23):
up feeling really heavy and also more committed to telling
the truth, to doing the work, to uplifting the truth,
and trying to wake as many people up as humanly
fucking possible. The announcement of jd Vance as Donald Trump's
(02:46):
running mate tells you everything that you need to know
about Republicans. Donald Trump could have, if he was interested
in actually gaining voters, chosen Nikki Haley. Now, I think
Nimroda is a piece of shit, But what it would
have indicated at least two Republican women is that you
(03:07):
believe in their power and their purpose as well. Donald
Trump said, yeah, Nah, she don't have the complexion.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
For that, right.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Remember, but you saw her just this week on the
stage at the RNC, bending the knee, kissing the ring
and doing what she can to stay relevant inside of
a party that sees her as nothing more than the
fucking help. So choosing jd Vance a man that has
said that he believes in abortune one hundred percent. No,
(03:38):
there is no cause in his mind that rape or
incest or anything horrific would constitute a second thought. He said, no,
just rape is inconvenient right. But two wrongs don't make
a right, which is what he said. Tell that to
victims of sexual assault. He has said that women should
(03:59):
stay in the side of abusive relationships because it's for
the better men of the children. He has said that
LGBTQ plus people are an abomination and wants to roll
back any protections that the community has gained in the
past several decades. He is a white supremacist. He is
(04:23):
a liar. He is a man that said in twenty
sixteen that Donald Trump was America's hitler, and now in
twenty twenty four is Shooken and Jivin on the stage
with him. These people are not to be trusted, and
they're also to be taken.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
At their word.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So do not sit this election out. Do not think
that you're going to get another bite at the apple.
Do not waste your vote on a third party. Use
your power, your platform, your treasure, your talents to secure
our democracy over the next three and a half months.
Because where who we have been withh wait for coming
(05:02):
up next, dear friends, my conversation with friend of the
show bridget Todd, the host of the pod There Are
No Girls on the Internet. We get into a great
conversation about tech, about democracy, about this upcoming election, and more, folks.
I am so excited to welcome back to WOKF Daily
(05:25):
bridget Todd, the host of There Are No Girls on
the Internet, which is launching its fourth season on iHeart
On Outspoken, and I'm so excited to have you. Every
time that I have you on, we have such rich
conversations about the world, the culture, society that we are
living in right now. The last time we spoke last year,
(05:47):
these are some of the things that hadn't happened that
have happened in that timeframe, which is kind of wild.
When I was like looking at this, so since then,
Twitter has become extreads hadn't taken off yet, and TikTok
was not facing a federally mandated ban just those three things,
(06:09):
and AI was still I think being talked about on
the margins, you know, within the industry, but not in
a mainstream type setting, and now it's everywhere and it's
in every conversation. So bridget jump in. Let's start with
threads and the ban on TikTok and kind of the
(06:29):
politization of information disinformation and kind of what were you
thinking about as these platforms were shifting and bands were
being announced.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, I do feel like we are in a really
specific moment for somebody that has been on the Internet
for a very long time, sort of covering and thinking
about the Internet and how we get our information, how
we connect. I can't recall a time that we were
ever in a moment like this one where you have
made sure, you know, communications platforms like Twitter essentially completely
(07:04):
being disrupted because of one billionaire that's new. You have
other companies trying to sort of fill that gap with threads.
You've got, you know, as you said, TikTok, which really
was taking up a lion's share of how people were
getting their information on social media facing a fan All
of this happening against the backdrop of the rise of
(07:24):
things like Generator of AI, which we know is really
poised to change our information ecosystem that already has do
things like you know, politically motivated deep fakes and cheap
fakes and things like that. I don't know, it's such
a weird time personally. I really see people experiencing a
lot of fatigue, and I think I'm there myself with like, well,
(07:45):
what platform can I use? Or you know, when something
happens in my community. For the longest time, where you
would go for like a real time update was Twitter, right, Like, yep,
you know, I would go to Twitter to see what my.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Mayor was saying about something.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Now I have no idea, I don't know where to go,
and so I think that we're really in this no
man's land of how you just get access to information
all of that in the lead up to a critical
election year, not just in the United States globally, right,
And so I'm concerned, I guess is the word title use.
(08:18):
I'm a little bit concerned about our information ecosystem online.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, I think that, particularly when you make the point
that our global town square was disrupted by one right wing, racist, misogynist,
transphobic billionaire, shows you how broken our systems of communication
(08:43):
and gathering in media truly are. Right when what we
had seen from let's say, the murder of Trayvon Martin,
the murder of Mike Brown, and I'm just I'm giving
like just specific time points the murder of George Floyd.
So you're looking at, you know, almost seven eight years
(09:04):
of time. In that span, what we saw were people
being able to quickly gather, people being able to organize online,
and then transition that organizing online into organizing in real life.
Then because of the bubbling up that was happening in Twitter,
finally mainstream media was covering what was actually happening on
(09:26):
the ground in these communities where these murders took place.
That was I think a bat signal bridget to the
right wing that was like, Oh, they can't have this,
they can't have this centralized organizing and we need something
and someone to disrupt it. How do you look at
(09:47):
the devolving of an X versus the proposed ban on
a TikTok? How do you look at that on the
spectrum of where we are?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, I mean, so the way that you broke down
that timeline is so I think needed and necessary, because
I do think the reason why Twitter became this battle
ground is because it really was a place where people
who traditionally didn't have access to traditional means of power
were able to build up power. So people like Elon
must saw that and they were like, we need to
disrupt that. Right When I think about TikTok, I think
(10:20):
that TikTok is a platform that it's not surprising to
me that you have a lot of people kind of
fear mongering about TikTok because I do think it's one
of the last places that people can go and just
like express themselves. I think it's interesting how the conversation
around the platform has been demonized. But other platforms that
I could tell you twenty different ways that they're that
(10:42):
they're that they're harming us, it's not similarly demonized. And
so I think that what lawmakers who are trying to
ban TikTok are really saying is that American owned companies
should be able to harm us in this way.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Like that's like, like that's my like big theory.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
And I also think like there's a kind of a like, oh,
you kids with your phones kind of mentality about it,
where because it's a platform that is really taken off
with younger people, it's really easily demonized, and so you
have these lawmakers being like, oh, like, you know, young
people couldn't possibly feel xyz about Palestine, it has to
be TikTok is like rotting their brains, and then they
(11:19):
turn around and want that same demographic to vote for them.
It's like, on the one hand, they are both like
devaluing what young people have to say while also being like, oh,
but we want your votes. And so I just had
the whole conversation around TikTok on the backdrop of how
it's unfolding with X like, it just feels really disingenuous,
and I don't know that it's a conversation that is
(11:41):
really benefiting us and really making us safer. If lawmakers
want to have a conversation about how we make social
media platforms safer, how we stop social media platforms from
profiting from harming people and taking all of our data,
and have an actual conversation about like a robust data
privacy policy, I am.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
All for it.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I don't think just spanning one platform gets us there.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
We can all list off on the top of our
heads the ways in which American platforms, American run platforms
have been abusing our data and abusing us since like
their beginning, what responsibility did Meta take for the twenty
sixteen election they had to pay fines over in Europe
(12:26):
like a slack on the wrisk, but it was at
least like a billion or so, What was the responsibility?
What was the accountability that Meta had to play? YouTube
and others that were you know, for Google, like in
terms of broadcasting and platforming disinformation, misinformation and white supremacy.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And in fact, I would argue that platforms like YouTube
that is owned by Google, in the recent months, they've
actually walked back what very little guardrails they put up
after twenty sixteen and twenty twenty, they've walked back. And
so for a while after the twenty two election they
were like, oh, we won't allow election denihalism on our platform.
They walked that back a couple months ago ahead of
(13:05):
the ahead of the upcoming election. So not only is
it a lack of accountability, I think that they're just like,
it doesn't like we can do whatever we want and
people are not gonna stop using these platforms, and so
I think the dynamic has really become that they don't
have to be accountable to us, the people who use
these platforms and make them billions, and we really have
to shift that because these platforms would be nothing without us.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
They got us, aren't being accountable to us.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
You know? And I wonder because to that point, how
because I feel like we have also become intellectually enslaved
to these platforms and their algorithms. If you are a
content creator, right like you and I are content creators,
the only way for you to get pops is to
basically live on those apps, right, be able to put
(13:51):
up five, ten, fifteen videos a day, to be able
to push out content to meet your audience, and for
folks to stay on their screens all day every day.
And so because of that, I'm like, how, like, is
it is it a boycott? Because I don't see a
bunch of people saying, you know what, I'm good? So
in your mind, what does it look like for us,
(14:15):
as those that are the source of their power and
their wealth to make them accountable even when the people
that we are electing to regulate them and hold them
accountable don't What a good question?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I mean, I think part of it is almost like
a philosophical answer of really putting these platforms in an
appropriate place in our lives and in our media diets.
You know, I love technology and I love the Internet,
and I hate that we're in a place where when
I'm talking about technology and the Internet, invariably I'm talking
about like three different companies Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, I guess
(14:52):
for Google. And it's like, we've gotten to this place
where these four massive companies, mostly run by white male billionaires,
to become synonymous with the Internet. And so I think
that ultimately we deserve an Internet ecosystem that is more robust, richer,
more dynamic, has more players than like four people making
decisions for how we will get our content. And I
(15:12):
don't know what you said about being a content creator
and what it feels like to exist in these platforms
really speaks to me because it is so exhausting, Like
it's exhausting. Have you ever seen the guidelines from Adam Mosseerri,
who runs Instagram, where it will be like, here's how
you succeed on Instagram And it'll be like post five
(15:33):
reels a day, post five times on a grid, and
it's like, Okay, well, I have a job. My job
is that full time Instagram creator. I have a family,
I have a life and maybe the kind of inside
and perspective that I'm able to bring. I need to
spend time not thinking get Instagram to do it. I
need to spend time in.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
The world like thinking and existing. Right, yeah, yeah, Because
there was a point where I was really trying to
develop my TikTok presence, right, and I had gotten some
really good tutorials from much younger content creators who were
like Danielle, I think that you could translate to TikTok
and this is here are some ideas, right and just
(16:11):
give it a go. And they're like, also, you need
to put up at least nine videos a day, And
I was like, in.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
What world, it's not happening, like in not in what
a world?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
But there was like a span of time bridget I
shit you not where I was putting up like six
videos a day, and then at the end of like
that month, I was burnt out. I didn't want to
log onto TikTok, I didn't want to share a video.
I just didn't have it, you know. And so I
also want people to understand that those that try to
(16:49):
make a living and build a presence and a platform,
like again, we don't own any of the data. So
the tens of thousands of people that started following me
on TikTok, it's not like I have their email addresses, right,
It's not like I have access to them to bring
them into different formats in places, and so again it
is really about us looking and saying, am I really
(17:11):
in control of this? Then I say that I'm a
content creator, I say that I'm a you know, an
entrepreneur and doing these things, but like I think that
I have just traded one master for another.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
That is a word. I mean, that is really how
it feels. And you know, let's say that you are
somebody who built up a huge following on TikTok then
it gets banned, or you're somebody who built up a
huge following on Instagram, then they tweak the algorithm, or
the kind of content that you were told succeeds on
the platform no longer pops off. Like it's just not
something that I think is healthy. It's not something that
(17:45):
I think is really possible. Like I really had to
have like a come to Jesus moment of like what
is it that I do well?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
What is my value? Add what do I like doing?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
And that's not making videos on TikTok, right like, and
I have to sort of be okay with that that
not every like Like I also did the TikTok thing.
It was a huge flop for me, partly because I
was not willing to make a million videos a day,
And I kind of have to be okay with that
and hope that the people who resonate with what I
have to say will find me in other ways.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
But it's hard. It's really hard.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
But as you said, increasingly, and I think especially for
black folks, for women, for people who are traditionally marginalized,
you do have to have that presence on TikTok or
on social media to get your point across. It's not
like you could, like you know, if you ever go
to try to get like a book deal, the first
thing they ask you is like, how many cass do
you have?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Exactly? And so I.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Recognize it's easy for me to say like, oh, just
don't care about your TikTok presence or whatever, because of
the reality is it does matter. But I guess I'm
trying to do the individual personal work of making it
matter less in my own mind and my own understanding
of my work and my values and my value.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
It is so much work, and it's so much compartmentalization,
right and understanding like that you are not the product
that you are putting out. It's a very tricky game
as a content creator. I want to switch gears with
a couple of minutes that we have to talk about
generative AI and to talk about where we are, how
it's being used, and whether or not. And I know
(19:16):
that it's not black or white, that it is not
you know, inside of the binary. But is it going
to be for our betterment in your humble opinion, or
we just essentially setting ourselves up for a massive like
failure of humanity Because I tell you I think in
only existential thoughts when I think when I think about AI,
(19:36):
have no one has changed my mind on this, so please.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Sounds like somebody has been staring into the void and
like correct ground with existential thoughts. Okay, correct, Yeah, I
mean this is what I think about AI right at
my core. I am a techno optimist. I think that technology.
I've seen the way that it can connect people, inform people,
all of that. I think that we are at a
critical moment with generative AI where we are running out
(20:01):
of time to decide whether or not this is going
to be technology that helps us or harms us. I
think it's all about the people that we center, because
you know, it's easy to think about AI as like
hyper intelligent, hyper aware robots, but it's people. It's made
by people, it's trained by people, it learns from us.
So we're really talking about people. And I think that
(20:23):
right now we have to decide if we are going
to center and follow the same kind of tech billionaires
that led us to this place that we were just
talking about a moment ago, Danielle, where you know, it
feels like our information ecosystem is crumbling. Do we want
to listen to those same people that got us to
this moment that feels so scary and tough when it
(20:44):
comes to making decisions about AI, or do we want
to listen to the hundreds of mostly marginalized people, right
black women women who have been raising the alarm about AI,
really having the conversations about ethics, talking about how we
can make AI that truly is people centered, and the
(21:04):
need to do that. I think we can go one
of two ways, but we are losing time to decide
where we're gonna go, and So what I think when
it comes to AI is like we really need to
have a shift of who we listen to, who we
decide as an expert, who we center, because right now
we're doing the same thing that we're doing with the
platforms right where we've decided a couple of companies like
(21:26):
open AI and others mostly headed by white CIS men,
and we've just decided like they are the people who
are going to figure this out, and I want something
different from us. We have voices that are offering a
different story in a different future. We just have to
decide that those are the voices that we are going
to center.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Last question for you, bridget too, and this one is
you know, around pride, as I you know we've been
saying on the show this month. You know, pride is
three hundred and sixty five days of the year, particularly
when our community is under attack in so many ways
from so many spaces and places. And I wonder when
you say, like you're a techno optimist, how that translates
(22:07):
into like your own multitude of identities at a time
when America and the world feel fairly dark.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah, I'm just remembering that the last time we talked
was also Pride this time last year, and I was
telling you that I had got out to a Pride
party and it felt different, Like I was like, I'm
a little nervous being here.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Is this safe?
Speaker 3 (22:33):
But then when I kind of like leaned into the moment,
I was like, Oh, this actually feels good, and we
need to have these spaces. I think it really comes
down to that that, like, sometimes it feels like just existing,
just living, just thriving, just being here is its own
kind of quiet, radical act, and so I'm leaning into that.
That like resistance and showing up every day and being
(22:55):
an optimist and having hope and thinking making plans for
your future, being hopeful about the future in a kind
of way, that is a radical act that I'm sort
of clinging to that, you know, as everything feels like
it's burning sometimes sometimes that's all I had to cling to.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I feel like we have to lean into the moment
that we're in because I feel every single day we
are living history. You know, I thought for the first
time the other day, and I don't know why, but
I have all of these conversations as you do, all
through COVID, right, that are pretty much like audio diaries,
all of these podcasts of this moment, and at some
(23:32):
point in time ten, twenty, thirty, forty years from now,
people will be listening and being like they had no
idea what was coming, or like oh my god, they
did know, but they really didn't know, but like what
a moment to be living in. The thing that I
will end on is that I think that pride is necessary.
It is necessary, particularly in these times, to seek a
(23:56):
serious amount of joy, to center it, to guard it,
because everything is at stake, including our health and well being.
So with that, happy Pride to you, Bridget. Please tell
people how they connect with your new season of their
and No Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Well, thank you so much for having me Danielle Happy Pride.
You can find the podcast There Are No Girls on
the Internet, on iHeartRadio and Outspoken wherever you get your pods.
You can follow me on Instagram at Bridget Marie DC
or on TikTok where I just got around.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
But if you want to follow it, if you want
to follow.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Me, it's a Bridget makes podcasts. Yeah, I'd love to
have you there.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Amazing As always, thank you so much for making the
time for WOKF really appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
That is it for me today. Friends on wokef as always,
power to the people and to all the people. Power,
get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OKF Daily with Me
your Girl. Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker Today.
I woke up and did not want to get out
of bed, and so I laid there for at least
forty five minutes. I am feeling incredibly heavy, incredibly low,
(00:34):
and doing all that I can to muster the energy
to keep pushing forward. We've all been dealing with just
non stop havoc on our nervous systems for the last
two weeks. But if we're really honest, the last eight years,
(00:57):
and so, if you do find yourself like I do,
where you are at a very low point, you find
yourself at a very low moment. I want to offer
to you to just give into what your body needs,
which is rest, which is a social media break, which
(01:17):
is a news break, and go and do things that
nourish you. Because what I think is happening right now
with this inundation of just bad judges, bad decisions, bad
people gaining power and reverence on social media, in corporate media,
(01:40):
the fall of our democracy, of places like MSNBC who
now have pretty much shown and revealed who they are
with inviting Eric Trump on air, Katie Turr really with
removing Mourning Joe from the air and lying to the
(02:01):
hosts about why really like, that's what we're doing, all
to comply and be complicit in the anointing of Donald
Trump as king. It's vile and it's disgusting, and I
think that more and more people are recognizing that they
are not to be trusted. And so I just woke
(02:23):
up feeling really heavy and also more committed to telling
the truth, to doing the work, to uplifting the truth,
and trying to wake as many people up as humanly
fucking possible. The announcement of jd Vance as Donald Trump's
(02:46):
running mate tells you everything that you need to know
about Republicans. Donald Trump could have, if he was interested
in actually gaining voters, chosen Nikki Haley. Now, I think
Nimroda is a piece of shit, But what it would
have indicated at least two Republican women is that you
(03:07):
believe in their power and their purpose as well. Donald
Trump said, yeah, Nah, she don't have the complexion.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
For that, right.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Remember, but you saw her just this week on the
stage at the RNC, bending the knee, kissing the ring
and doing what she can to stay relevant inside of
a party that sees her as nothing more than the
fucking help. So choosing jd Vance a man that has
said that he believes in abortune one hundred percent. No,
(03:38):
there is no cause in his mind that rape or
incest or anything horrific would constitute a second thought. He said, no,
just rape is inconvenient right. But two wrongs don't make
a right, which is what he said. Tell that to
victims of sexual assault. He has said that women should
(03:59):
stay in the side of abusive relationships because it's for
the better men of the children. He has said that
LGBTQ plus people are an abomination and wants to roll
back any protections that the community has gained in the
past several decades. He is a white supremacist. He is
(04:23):
a liar. He is a man that said in twenty
sixteen that Donald Trump was America's hitler, and now in
twenty twenty four is Shooken and Jivin on the stage
with him. These people are not to be trusted, and
they're also to be taken.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
At their word.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So do not sit this election out. Do not think
that you're going to get another bite at the apple.
Do not waste your vote on a third party. Use
your power, your platform, your treasure, your talents to secure
our democracy over the next three and a half months.
Because where who we have been withh wait for coming
(05:02):
up next, dear friends, my conversation with friend of the
show bridget Todd, the host of the pod There Are
No Girls on the Internet. We get into a great
conversation about tech, about democracy, about this upcoming election, and more, folks.
I am so excited to welcome back to WOKF Daily
(05:25):
bridget Todd, the host of There Are No Girls on
the Internet, which is launching its fourth season on iHeart
On Outspoken, and I'm so excited to have you. Every
time that I have you on, we have such rich
conversations about the world, the culture, society that we are
living in right now. The last time we spoke last year,
(05:47):
these are some of the things that hadn't happened that
have happened in that timeframe, which is kind of wild.
When I was like looking at this, so since then,
Twitter has become extreads hadn't taken off yet, and TikTok
was not facing a federally mandated ban just those three things,
(06:09):
and AI was still I think being talked about on
the margins, you know, within the industry, but not in
a mainstream type setting, and now it's everywhere and it's
in every conversation. So bridget jump in. Let's start with
threads and the ban on TikTok and kind of the
(06:29):
politization of information disinformation and kind of what were you
thinking about as these platforms were shifting and bands were
being announced.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, I do feel like we are in a really
specific moment for somebody that has been on the Internet
for a very long time, sort of covering and thinking
about the Internet and how we get our information, how
we connect. I can't recall a time that we were
ever in a moment like this one where you have
made sure, you know, communications platforms like Twitter essentially completely
(07:04):
being disrupted because of one billionaire that's new. You have
other companies trying to sort of fill that gap with threads.
You've got, you know, as you said, TikTok, which really
was taking up a lion's share of how people were
getting their information on social media facing a fan All
of this happening against the backdrop of the rise of
(07:24):
things like Generator of AI, which we know is really
poised to change our information ecosystem that already has do
things like you know, politically motivated deep fakes and cheap
fakes and things like that. I don't know, it's such
a weird time personally. I really see people experiencing a
lot of fatigue, and I think I'm there myself with like, well,
(07:45):
what platform can I use? Or you know, when something
happens in my community. For the longest time, where you
would go for like a real time update was Twitter, right, Like, yep,
you know, I would go to Twitter to see what my.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Mayor was saying about something.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Now I have no idea, I don't know where to go,
and so I think that we're really in this no
man's land of how you just get access to information
all of that in the lead up to a critical
election year, not just in the United States globally, right,
And so I'm concerned, I guess is the word title use.
(08:18):
I'm a little bit concerned about our information ecosystem online.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, I think that, particularly when you make the point
that our global town square was disrupted by one right wing, racist, misogynist,
transphobic billionaire, shows you how broken our systems of communication
(08:43):
and gathering in media truly are. Right when what we
had seen from let's say, the murder of Trayvon Martin,
the murder of Mike Brown, and I'm just I'm giving
like just specific time points the murder of George Floyd.
So you're looking at, you know, almost seven eight years
(09:04):
of time. In that span, what we saw were people
being able to quickly gather, people being able to organize online,
and then transition that organizing online into organizing in real life.
Then because of the bubbling up that was happening in Twitter,
finally mainstream media was covering what was actually happening on
(09:26):
the ground in these communities where these murders took place.
That was I think a bat signal bridget to the
right wing that was like, Oh, they can't have this,
they can't have this centralized organizing and we need something
and someone to disrupt it. How do you look at
(09:47):
the devolving of an X versus the proposed ban on
a TikTok? How do you look at that on the
spectrum of where we are?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, I mean, so the way that you broke down
that timeline is so I think needed and necessary, because
I do think the reason why Twitter became this battle
ground is because it really was a place where people
who traditionally didn't have access to traditional means of power
were able to build up power. So people like Elon
must saw that and they were like, we need to
disrupt that. Right When I think about TikTok, I think
(10:20):
that TikTok is a platform that it's not surprising to
me that you have a lot of people kind of
fear mongering about TikTok because I do think it's one
of the last places that people can go and just
like express themselves. I think it's interesting how the conversation
around the platform has been demonized. But other platforms that
I could tell you twenty different ways that they're that
(10:42):
they're that they're harming us, it's not similarly demonized. And
so I think that what lawmakers who are trying to
ban TikTok are really saying is that American owned companies
should be able to harm us in this way.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Like that's like, like that's my like big theory.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
And I also think like there's a kind of a like, oh,
you kids with your phones kind of mentality about it,
where because it's a platform that is really taken off
with younger people, it's really easily demonized, and so you
have these lawmakers being like, oh, like, you know, young
people couldn't possibly feel xyz about Palestine, it has to
be TikTok is like rotting their brains, and then they
(11:19):
turn around and want that same demographic to vote for them.
It's like, on the one hand, they are both like
devaluing what young people have to say while also being like, oh,
but we want your votes. And so I just had
the whole conversation around TikTok on the backdrop of how
it's unfolding with X like, it just feels really disingenuous,
and I don't know that it's a conversation that is
(11:41):
really benefiting us and really making us safer. If lawmakers
want to have a conversation about how we make social
media platforms safer, how we stop social media platforms from
profiting from harming people and taking all of our data,
and have an actual conversation about like a robust data
privacy policy, I am.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
All for it.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I don't think just spanning one platform gets us there.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
We can all list off on the top of our
heads the ways in which American platforms, American run platforms
have been abusing our data and abusing us since like
their beginning, what responsibility did Meta take for the twenty
sixteen election they had to pay fines over in Europe
(12:26):
like a slack on the wrisk, but it was at
least like a billion or so, What was the responsibility?
What was the accountability that Meta had to play? YouTube
and others that were you know, for Google, like in
terms of broadcasting and platforming disinformation, misinformation and white supremacy.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And in fact, I would argue that platforms like YouTube
that is owned by Google, in the recent months, they've
actually walked back what very little guardrails they put up
after twenty sixteen and twenty twenty, they've walked back. And
so for a while after the twenty two election they
were like, oh, we won't allow election denihalism on our platform.
They walked that back a couple months ago ahead of
(13:05):
the ahead of the upcoming election. So not only is
it a lack of accountability, I think that they're just like,
it doesn't like we can do whatever we want and
people are not gonna stop using these platforms, and so
I think the dynamic has really become that they don't
have to be accountable to us, the people who use
these platforms and make them billions, and we really have
to shift that because these platforms would be nothing without us.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
They got us, aren't being accountable to us.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
You know? And I wonder because to that point, how
because I feel like we have also become intellectually enslaved
to these platforms and their algorithms. If you are a
content creator, right like you and I are content creators,
the only way for you to get pops is to
basically live on those apps, right, be able to put
(13:51):
up five, ten, fifteen videos a day, to be able
to push out content to meet your audience, and for
folks to stay on their screens all day every day.
And so because of that, I'm like, how, like, is
it is it a boycott? Because I don't see a
bunch of people saying, you know what, I'm good? So
in your mind, what does it look like for us,
(14:15):
as those that are the source of their power and
their wealth to make them accountable even when the people
that we are electing to regulate them and hold them
accountable don't What a good question?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I mean, I think part of it is almost like
a philosophical answer of really putting these platforms in an
appropriate place in our lives and in our media diets.
You know, I love technology and I love the Internet,
and I hate that we're in a place where when
I'm talking about technology and the Internet, invariably I'm talking
about like three different companies Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, I guess
(14:52):
for Google. And it's like, we've gotten to this place
where these four massive companies, mostly run by white male billionaires,
to become synonymous with the Internet. And so I think
that ultimately we deserve an Internet ecosystem that is more robust, richer,
more dynamic, has more players than like four people making
decisions for how we will get our content. And I
(15:12):
don't know what you said about being a content creator
and what it feels like to exist in these platforms
really speaks to me because it is so exhausting, Like
it's exhausting. Have you ever seen the guidelines from Adam Mosseerri,
who runs Instagram, where it will be like, here's how
you succeed on Instagram And it'll be like post five
(15:33):
reels a day, post five times on a grid, and
it's like, Okay, well, I have a job. My job
is that full time Instagram creator. I have a family,
I have a life and maybe the kind of inside
and perspective that I'm able to bring. I need to
spend time not thinking get Instagram to do it. I
need to spend time in.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
The world like thinking and existing. Right, yeah, yeah, Because
there was a point where I was really trying to
develop my TikTok presence, right, and I had gotten some
really good tutorials from much younger content creators who were
like Danielle, I think that you could translate to TikTok
and this is here are some ideas, right and just
(16:11):
give it a go. And they're like, also, you need
to put up at least nine videos a day, And
I was like, in.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
What world, it's not happening, like in not in what
a world?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
But there was like a span of time bridget I
shit you not where I was putting up like six
videos a day, and then at the end of like
that month, I was burnt out. I didn't want to
log onto TikTok, I didn't want to share a video.
I just didn't have it, you know. And so I
also want people to understand that those that try to
(16:49):
make a living and build a presence and a platform,
like again, we don't own any of the data. So
the tens of thousands of people that started following me
on TikTok, it's not like I have their email addresses, right,
It's not like I have access to them to bring
them into different formats in places, and so again it
is really about us looking and saying, am I really
(17:11):
in control of this? Then I say that I'm a
content creator, I say that I'm a you know, an
entrepreneur and doing these things, but like I think that
I have just traded one master for another.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
That is a word. I mean, that is really how
it feels. And you know, let's say that you are
somebody who built up a huge following on TikTok then
it gets banned, or you're somebody who built up a
huge following on Instagram, then they tweak the algorithm, or
the kind of content that you were told succeeds on
the platform no longer pops off. Like it's just not
something that I think is healthy. It's not something that
(17:45):
I think is really possible. Like I really had to
have like a come to Jesus moment of like what
is it that I do well?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
What is my value? Add what do I like doing?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
And that's not making videos on TikTok, right like, and
I have to sort of be okay with that that
not every like Like I also did the TikTok thing.
It was a huge flop for me, partly because I
was not willing to make a million videos a day,
And I kind of have to be okay with that
and hope that the people who resonate with what I
have to say will find me in other ways.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
But it's hard. It's really hard.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
But as you said, increasingly, and I think especially for
black folks, for women, for people who are traditionally marginalized,
you do have to have that presence on TikTok or
on social media to get your point across. It's not
like you could, like you know, if you ever go
to try to get like a book deal, the first
thing they ask you is like, how many cass do
you have?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Exactly? And so I.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Recognize it's easy for me to say like, oh, just
don't care about your TikTok presence or whatever, because of
the reality is it does matter. But I guess I'm
trying to do the individual personal work of making it
matter less in my own mind and my own understanding
of my work and my values and my value.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
It is so much work, and it's so much compartmentalization,
right and understanding like that you are not the product
that you are putting out. It's a very tricky game
as a content creator. I want to switch gears with
a couple of minutes that we have to talk about
generative AI and to talk about where we are, how
it's being used, and whether or not. And I know
(19:16):
that it's not black or white, that it is not
you know, inside of the binary. But is it going
to be for our betterment in your humble opinion, or
we just essentially setting ourselves up for a massive like
failure of humanity Because I tell you I think in
only existential thoughts when I think when I think about AI,
(19:36):
have no one has changed my mind on this, so please.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Sounds like somebody has been staring into the void and
like correct ground with existential thoughts. Okay, correct, Yeah, I
mean this is what I think about AI right at
my core. I am a techno optimist. I think that technology.
I've seen the way that it can connect people, inform people,
all of that. I think that we are at a
critical moment with generative AI where we are running out
(20:01):
of time to decide whether or not this is going
to be technology that helps us or harms us. I
think it's all about the people that we center, because
you know, it's easy to think about AI as like
hyper intelligent, hyper aware robots, but it's people. It's made
by people, it's trained by people, it learns from us.
So we're really talking about people. And I think that
(20:23):
right now we have to decide if we are going
to center and follow the same kind of tech billionaires
that led us to this place that we were just
talking about a moment ago, Danielle, where you know, it
feels like our information ecosystem is crumbling. Do we want
to listen to those same people that got us to
this moment that feels so scary and tough when it
(20:44):
comes to making decisions about AI, or do we want
to listen to the hundreds of mostly marginalized people, right
black women women who have been raising the alarm about AI,
really having the conversations about ethics, talking about how we
can make AI that truly is people centered, and the
(21:04):
need to do that. I think we can go one
of two ways, but we are losing time to decide
where we're gonna go, and So what I think when
it comes to AI is like we really need to
have a shift of who we listen to, who we
decide as an expert, who we center, because right now
we're doing the same thing that we're doing with the
platforms right where we've decided a couple of companies like
(21:26):
open AI and others mostly headed by white CIS men,
and we've just decided like they are the people who
are going to figure this out, and I want something
different from us. We have voices that are offering a
different story in a different future. We just have to
decide that those are the voices that we are going
to center.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Last question for you, bridget too, and this one is
you know, around pride, as I you know we've been
saying on the show this month. You know, pride is
three hundred and sixty five days of the year, particularly
when our community is under attack in so many ways
from so many spaces and places. And I wonder when
you say, like you're a techno optimist, how that translates
(22:07):
into like your own multitude of identities at a time
when America and the world feel fairly dark.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah, I'm just remembering that the last time we talked
was also Pride this time last year, and I was
telling you that I had got out to a Pride
party and it felt different, Like I was like, I'm
a little nervous being here.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Is this safe?
Speaker 3 (22:33):
But then when I kind of like leaned into the moment,
I was like, Oh, this actually feels good, and we
need to have these spaces. I think it really comes
down to that that, like, sometimes it feels like just existing,
just living, just thriving, just being here is its own
kind of quiet, radical act, and so I'm leaning into that.
That like resistance and showing up every day and being
(22:55):
an optimist and having hope and thinking making plans for
your future, being hopeful about the future in a kind
of way, that is a radical act that I'm sort
of clinging to that, you know, as everything feels like
it's burning sometimes sometimes that's all I had to cling to.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I feel like we have to lean into the moment
that we're in because I feel every single day we
are living history. You know, I thought for the first
time the other day, and I don't know why, but
I have all of these conversations as you do, all
through COVID, right, that are pretty much like audio diaries,
all of these podcasts of this moment, and at some
(23:32):
point in time ten, twenty, thirty, forty years from now,
people will be listening and being like they had no
idea what was coming, or like oh my god, they
did know, but they really didn't know, but like what
a moment to be living in. The thing that I
will end on is that I think that pride is necessary.
It is necessary, particularly in these times, to seek a
(23:56):
serious amount of joy, to center it, to guard it,
because everything is at stake, including our health and well being.
So with that, happy Pride to you, Bridget. Please tell
people how they connect with your new season of their
and No Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Well, thank you so much for having me Danielle Happy Pride.
You can find the podcast There Are No Girls on
the Internet, on iHeartRadio and Outspoken wherever you get your pods.
You can follow me on Instagram at Bridget Marie DC
or on TikTok where I just got around.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
But if you want to follow it, if you want
to follow.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Me, it's a Bridget makes podcasts. Yeah, I'd love to
have you there.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Amazing As always, thank you so much for making the
time for WOKF really appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
That is it for me today. Friends on wokef as always,
power to the people and to all the people. Power,
get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Host
Danielle Moodie
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