November 12, 2024 • 19 mins
Dr. Jonathan Metzl returned for an episode recorded on Election Day, taking temperature of the country's political climate and forecasting our future.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ook F Daily with
Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
I'm taking a few days to reset as well as
to celebrate. I don't know what the hell is left
of this country, not really just my birthday, but in
today's conversation, this was recorded on election day with doctor
(00:35):
Jonathan Metzel, our friend and in house doctor, and I
will say I am still, like many of you, still
processing where we are and what's in store for us.
We've talked about this for years. At this point, we
know that there is a lot of darkness and a
lot of pain that is headed our way beginning in January.
(00:57):
I don't know how we will move move through. I
don't know what is needed to move through. What I
have been telling people is that you need to fortify.
You need to fortify your homes, your hearts, your relationships,
your communities, because what is going to be outside of
the doors each and every day is going to be grotesque.
It is going to be miserable, and that is the
(01:21):
point to break our culture, our hope, our humanity. And
so this conversation Jonathan and I just kind of reflect
on where we've been over the last few years and
where we think we are headed.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Folks.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
You know that whenever we have the opportunity each week
to speak with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzl,
I am always thrilled. And this week we are coming
to you. We are recording this on election day. We
have no idea as millions of votes have already been
cast and millions are lining up to vote what the
(02:02):
outcome is going to be. But today, Jonathan, I actually
want to talk about the fact that you and I
have been in conversation for years. That it began I
think during the pandemic or right before the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
It is the beginning of the pandemic, the very.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Beginning of the pandemic, and I think that both of
us started. I asked you to come on to you know,
to talk, be a doctor, help us through what we
were trying to manage. And we've continued the conversation for
four years every week, and so I don't know, I
(02:42):
guess I want to say, like, how have you been feeling,
how have you felt being on WOKEKF weekly for this time.
We've had so many discussions, so much has happened in
the world that we've been able to analyze and kind
of you know, link arms and get through together. So
how has that felt.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I mean, we retrospect today, We'll do your retrospect the
greatest of you know, and then we can do a
prospect too. I'm happy to do some predictions here. But
it's been you know, it's just funny. It really feels
like on one hand, and I think rightly so, that
so much of what we've spoken about has been leading
up to this moment. In fact, like many many times
over the past weeks, but particularly over this past week,
(03:25):
something happened and I'm like Danielle, I talked about that
six months ago actually, And so if there's something about
like our process that I think is insightful about something
that's happening that other people aren't seeing, I mean, that's
among the many things I look forward to. But it's
kind of like, it's not like we're conspiracy theorists. We
are we have our ear to the ground in a way,
(03:46):
and so I think that in addition to just the
great the light of our conversations every week, which are
just personally therapeutic and speaking to our listeners around the world,
and beyond in other galaxies. I would say that there's
something very prescient I think about our talks, because from
everything from judges to election boards, to what would it
(04:07):
mean to speak to white men? To what's Harris getting
right and wrong? To where's this heading? The impact of
Elon Musk, and especially for me this week, so much
of our conversation when my book came out was about
how public health becomes political. And then of course there
goes RFK taken floor right out of our water and
stuff like that, and so in a way, just there's
just so many things that I think it's having this
(04:30):
weekly dialogue kind of lets us unpack things in a
way that I think is meaningful and useful and I
think important.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, I agree. I think that we have had our
finger on the pulse of a lot of conversations, a
lot of because you know, you living inside of the
world of academics, as well as movements in terms of
public health, in terms of gun violence and gun reform.
I think that it has helped guide this audience and
(04:58):
provide some insight and also make people feel less crazy,
knowing that people who do have their ear to the
ground are feeling similarly in the way that they are.
You know, it's funny. Right before I came on today,
I'm you know, of course I'm going through the news,
but I'm not turning on the news because I don't
want to hear the chattering for seventy two, you know, hours.
(05:20):
But I saw for the first time buildings in Washington,
d C. Are boarded up, and they are it looks
as if we were just told that a hurricane was
headed to Washington, d C. In the way that plywood
is going up and barricades are going up. And I
(05:44):
said to my sister, who was here right before, I
was just like, wow, this is really a sign of
the times. And I don't want to ever take these
images in as normal as just oh, that's what we
do during elections. And so hearing that and maybe you
saw the images because they were on BBC, They're on
the National Review, They're everywhere right now, What does that
(06:06):
symbolize to you? How does that make you feel to
see that for the first time in our modern history,
that this is how our nation's capital is preparing for
an election.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It's a sign of the times. We've had those barricades
and smaller versions go up. Really after January sixth of
zillion times, right after Supreme Court decisions, Supreme Court hearings,
other kinds of things. You know, just use the title
of an excellent book. This is what we've become because
the idea that we are a very divided nation. And
(06:41):
I also think that public gatherings, even celebratory gatherings, are
wrought with politics. I mean, think about the Super Bowl parade.
When the Kansas City Chiefs won the Super Bowl last year,
there was a mass shooting at the super Bowl parade.
So there's a level of awareness about just public gatherings
and how people act in public and the relationship between
like individual liberty and communal responsibility. That just we are
(07:05):
essentially those barricades right now. That is who we are.
And so the question of can we work back from that?
And I do think that there are two models in
front of us of how to work back from that.
I mean, Trump is saying I'm going to take control
of everything. We don't need these barricades because I'm going
to take over the mechanisms of everything, and We're going
(07:26):
to have military parades and all these kind of things.
And Harris is saying, this is not who we are.
And let's work back toward a more communal form of
collaborative government. So in a way, those barricades present two
very different models of how to move forward that ironically
(07:46):
both are involved in taking them down, just in very
different ways.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
What is the mood right now in Tennessee where you are?
How are people in your state kind of moving about?
We talked a couple of weeks ago about your record
early voting that had happened. I talked to a couple
of people actually in Tennessee that it's said for the
first time when they went to vote, there were lines
(08:13):
at early voting and like and feeling a certain kind
of energy. What has the mood been.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, we've talked about on this show that slaces like
Tennessee that figure out this system are going to be
models for everywhere, right, I mean the problem in Tennessee.
We have incredible candidates running incredible I'm Sundell Brooks, the
mother of a victim of the waffle house shooting, is running.
Megan Barry is running against Marshall Blackburn and has tremendous
(08:43):
support here in Nsville, where we have a great majority
of the population of our area. Fantastic candidates covenant moms
running things like that. The problem is we've been jare manders.
So we're say we're fighting an uphill battle with both
arms and both legs tied behind our back. Is kind
of app and so the question is we're laying the
(09:04):
groundwork for something here. There's tons of mobilization around gun safety,
around other issues, and I think partially in the aftermath
of mass shootings like the ones I write about in
my book, people started to wake up to hey, wait,
this system isn't working for us. But it's just hard
to see how much germandering safe districts like Jim Cooper's
(09:26):
old district of reliably great Democratic congressman here collapsing those
into just adomized voting blocks. It's just hard to see how.
And again, I'm just reinforcing something you and I have
talked about a million times here, which is when the
other side controls the judges, and judges can get away
with yep this. So we're seeing that across the country,
(09:47):
and so I hope there are some amazing surprise victories here.
I think we've built coalitions here that I think are
going to sustain. I think people are aware, but I
also think that the flip side is if that doesn't happen,
the other side can say, look, we've built this system
that can weather even the most energized coalition on the
(10:09):
other side and still win. And so we'll see. I'm
going to a bunch of different election watch parties tonight
for different candidates, and I'll let you know how that goes.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Please do because I think you know, I think you
said an important phrase, which is building infrastructure, that the
ability to turn the reddest of states purple is not
something that happens overnight. It's not something that happens in
one election cycle or two election cycles. I never thought
in my life that I would see the state of
(10:39):
Georgia turn blue, and it's done so twice. And so
I think that Georgia is a model for the kinds
of decades long work that needs to go into these states,
the same way that we are seeing work being done
in Texas to mobilize people around these systems of ry
(11:00):
mandering that have just been the law the land, and like,
what can people do? But I think that when you
see a Georgia, when you see in North Carolina, when
you see these places that are fundamentally have been read
for generations make this change. It's not like people all
of a sudden woke up and had an epiphany. It's
the work that's being done quietly and largely underfunded that
(11:24):
gets to this place well.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
But also that we didn't get into this whole overnight either,
And so there's a fifty year history of Republicans realizing
that power runs through judiciaries and that grassroots organizations like
the NRA at the time have tremendous way and deep
pockets and things like that. And so I do think
(11:49):
that you and I spoke about in the beginning that
there was a frustration of our side to not see
that for quite a long time. And I think right
now there's it's encouraging to see organizations and other groups
and people and voters recognizing that this is part of
the process. That you can go off and say anything
you want on social media, but if you don't have
a plan for how school boards and election boards and
(12:13):
library boards and things like that are the ground on
which we build. And so I just you know, I
think we also we've started in a hole in part
because of this, and I think there's a waking up
about that. But I don't know, it's funny that like
Tennessee is the state of al Gore. It's the a
form of centrism that we used to kind of have
(12:35):
as a model that would be represented of the what
was called the time the New South. And so it's
not like people can't do it, it's just, you know,
our politics don't allow it.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Right now, Let's look ahead a little bit if we can.
I personally can't see a damn things past today, but
I do want to take a look ahead at the
two versions of America that we're staring at right now.
What do you see going forward? If Donald Trump wins.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Well, predictions are hard. Again, people should know we're speaking
before the election, but you know, I'm happy to predict,
Like if anybody listens to this, I would bet that
the Kansas City Chiefs are going to beat the Tampa
Bay Buccaneers. I'm Monday Night football in overtime by six points,
just a feeling I have. We'll have to see what happens,
and I guess for the election, the issue is going
(13:32):
to be. You know, it's funny because I've been asked
a lot by the media, like how can people heal
and how can people take back their mental health and
things like that. And what I keep saying is uncomfortable
blaming that on individual psychology because it's so responsive to
external factors. And so in a way, if the candidate
who quote unquote wins the election, says, we've had a
(13:54):
hard time do this election, and now it's time to
bring things back together. And unfortunately we're in a zero
some political system, but let's make sure there are more
voices at the table that would do more for mental
health than anything that I could ever recommend in terms
of like sleep and eat a lot of snacks and
stuff like that. I don't have a ton of faith
that if Donald Trump won he would do that. But
(14:16):
even for Trump, he's been pushed into this crazy dark
place and also been pushed by people to whom he
sold his soul, like RFA Junior, to adopt crazy positions.
And so in a normal election, there would be like, Okay,
we've had this, let's all come together. But I think
we have a winner take all, zero sum political system
that Trump has taken to heart, and for him, winning
(14:38):
means then wiping out your enemies. And so I guess
the question would be if this is that, if that
is the outcome here. There was shock in twenty sixteen
went he won, and then people mobilized around democratic institutions.
And the question will be is that going to happen
here or is his power all that much greater because
he's like the staypuff marshmallow Man at the end of
(15:00):
the first Ghostbusters movie, like he's just ingested everything already,
and he already has more mechanisms of power and more
of a plan. Are people exhausted from the election or
is there going to be resilience or are people you know,
I've heard so many people say people get what they
deserve or something like that, like kind of let it
play out as a morality tale. So I think it'll
(15:21):
be a pretty interesting you know, we can talk about
this going forward. I think it'll be a pretty interesting
challenge if that happens, which I don't hope it doesn't.
For the left, do we move to the center, Do
we move to the left or we in the resistance?
Are we just giving up? Are we all going to
take my advice and move to Dave and Busters? You know?
And so we'll have to see. I don't know how
(15:41):
would you answer that question.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I don't ever remember because this has never happened before,
the kind of collective anxiety and stress and fear that
people have right now that you're seeing all around social media.
And I that I have probably what I call pandemic
level anxiety right now, where I'm worried about myself, my family,
(16:09):
everyone around me, and like what is going to happen?
Like what will America look like moving forward? And you know,
much in the same way that I don't feel as
a country we have processed the trauma induced by COVID.
I don't know if A Harris wins. I think that
(16:30):
the work ahead is so hard, right, like, at least
we know that we can link arms and try and
build and repair together. But the fracture is so deep
and so big that it is going to take all
of us to put it back together. And I don't
(16:52):
know if we I don't think that we ever go
back to the before time, much in the same way
that I feel, like, quote unquote post COVID, that we
haven't really gone back to a before time. Like you know,
you know more so than anyone that if you don't
process trauma, it you know, manifests itself in other ways.
(17:13):
And so I'm curious as to what that looks like collectively.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I mean, again, I have very strong opinions about if
Harris wins, I have very strong opinions, but I don't
feel like we're there right now. I mean, if Harris winds,
reparation can't just be let's all come together around the table.
It actually means trying to understand some deeper currents about
what Trump has promised other people and why that resonates.
It's not just like I mean, I'd never forget in
(17:38):
my book, like some guys said, liberals think that if
they just shout their policies louder or market them different,
I'm going to agree with them. But I actually have
a totally different paradigm. So it'll take understanding different paradigms
for that. But we're not there right now, Like, let's
let's figure out what's going to happen. I hope that's
a problem we have.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I mean I do. I will say the same. I
do hope that it is a problem that we have,
because I think that you and I will continue being
in conversation about what comes next regardless. But I want
to say, Jonathan, as we close out today, that I
really I have deep appreciation for you for the way
(18:18):
that you've shown up for the WOKF audience over the
last four years, with such commitment and such passion. It
really means a lot to me but also to the
audience to have you as their weekly guide. And I
really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I feel the same so deeply, and I'm so excited
to keep having these conversations and hopefully we'll be having
them just as we always do, free and open. It
might be like coming to you live from an undisclosed
location behind the whack a mole at a Dave Investor somewhere.
I get no money from Dave Investors. I just am
a fan. But so you know, TBD. But we will
(18:54):
keep talking, so.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Everybody real booking talking. Buckle up, hang in there, everybody,
as Jonathan has been telling us to do for four years,
appreciate you. That is it for me today, Dear friends
on WOKEF as always, power to the people and to
(19:17):
all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ook F Daily with
Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
I'm taking a few days to reset as well as
to celebrate. I don't know what the hell is left
of this country, not really just my birthday, but in
today's conversation, this was recorded on election day with doctor
(00:35):
Jonathan Metzel, our friend and in house doctor, and I
will say I am still, like many of you, still
processing where we are and what's in store for us.
We've talked about this for years. At this point, we
know that there is a lot of darkness and a
lot of pain that is headed our way beginning in January.
(00:57):
I don't know how we will move move through. I
don't know what is needed to move through. What I
have been telling people is that you need to fortify.
You need to fortify your homes, your hearts, your relationships,
your communities, because what is going to be outside of
the doors each and every day is going to be grotesque.
It is going to be miserable, and that is the
(01:21):
point to break our culture, our hope, our humanity. And
so this conversation Jonathan and I just kind of reflect
on where we've been over the last few years and
where we think we are headed.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Folks.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
You know that whenever we have the opportunity each week
to speak with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzl,
I am always thrilled. And this week we are coming
to you. We are recording this on election day. We
have no idea as millions of votes have already been
cast and millions are lining up to vote what the
(02:02):
outcome is going to be. But today, Jonathan, I actually
want to talk about the fact that you and I
have been in conversation for years. That it began I
think during the pandemic or right before the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
It is the beginning of the pandemic, the very.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Beginning of the pandemic, and I think that both of
us started. I asked you to come on to you know,
to talk, be a doctor, help us through what we
were trying to manage. And we've continued the conversation for
four years every week, and so I don't know, I
(02:42):
guess I want to say, like, how have you been feeling,
how have you felt being on WOKEKF weekly for this time.
We've had so many discussions, so much has happened in
the world that we've been able to analyze and kind
of you know, link arms and get through together. So
how has that felt.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I mean, we retrospect today, We'll do your retrospect the
greatest of you know, and then we can do a
prospect too. I'm happy to do some predictions here. But
it's been you know, it's just funny. It really feels
like on one hand, and I think rightly so, that
so much of what we've spoken about has been leading
up to this moment. In fact, like many many times
over the past weeks, but particularly over this past week,
(03:25):
something happened and I'm like Danielle, I talked about that
six months ago actually, And so if there's something about
like our process that I think is insightful about something
that's happening that other people aren't seeing, I mean, that's
among the many things I look forward to. But it's
kind of like, it's not like we're conspiracy theorists. We
are we have our ear to the ground in a way,
(03:46):
and so I think that in addition to just the
great the light of our conversations every week, which are
just personally therapeutic and speaking to our listeners around the world,
and beyond in other galaxies. I would say that there's
something very prescient I think about our talks, because from
everything from judges to election boards, to what would it
(04:07):
mean to speak to white men? To what's Harris getting
right and wrong? To where's this heading? The impact of
Elon Musk, and especially for me this week, so much
of our conversation when my book came out was about
how public health becomes political. And then of course there
goes RFK taken floor right out of our water and
stuff like that, and so in a way, just there's
just so many things that I think it's having this
(04:30):
weekly dialogue kind of lets us unpack things in a
way that I think is meaningful and useful and I
think important.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, I agree. I think that we have had our
finger on the pulse of a lot of conversations, a
lot of because you know, you living inside of the
world of academics, as well as movements in terms of
public health, in terms of gun violence and gun reform.
I think that it has helped guide this audience and
(04:58):
provide some insight and also make people feel less crazy,
knowing that people who do have their ear to the
ground are feeling similarly in the way that they are.
You know, it's funny. Right before I came on today,
I'm you know, of course I'm going through the news,
but I'm not turning on the news because I don't
want to hear the chattering for seventy two, you know, hours.
(05:20):
But I saw for the first time buildings in Washington,
d C. Are boarded up, and they are it looks
as if we were just told that a hurricane was
headed to Washington, d C. In the way that plywood
is going up and barricades are going up. And I
(05:44):
said to my sister, who was here right before, I
was just like, wow, this is really a sign of
the times. And I don't want to ever take these
images in as normal as just oh, that's what we
do during elections. And so hearing that and maybe you
saw the images because they were on BBC, They're on
the National Review, They're everywhere right now, What does that
(06:06):
symbolize to you? How does that make you feel to
see that for the first time in our modern history,
that this is how our nation's capital is preparing for
an election.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It's a sign of the times. We've had those barricades
and smaller versions go up. Really after January sixth of
zillion times, right after Supreme Court decisions, Supreme Court hearings,
other kinds of things. You know, just use the title
of an excellent book. This is what we've become because
the idea that we are a very divided nation. And
(06:41):
I also think that public gatherings, even celebratory gatherings, are
wrought with politics. I mean, think about the Super Bowl parade.
When the Kansas City Chiefs won the Super Bowl last year,
there was a mass shooting at the super Bowl parade.
So there's a level of awareness about just public gatherings
and how people act in public and the relationship between
like individual liberty and communal responsibility. That just we are
(07:05):
essentially those barricades right now. That is who we are.
And so the question of can we work back from that?
And I do think that there are two models in
front of us of how to work back from that.
I mean, Trump is saying I'm going to take control
of everything. We don't need these barricades because I'm going
to take over the mechanisms of everything, and We're going
(07:26):
to have military parades and all these kind of things.
And Harris is saying, this is not who we are.
And let's work back toward a more communal form of
collaborative government. So in a way, those barricades present two
very different models of how to move forward that ironically
(07:46):
both are involved in taking them down, just in very
different ways.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
What is the mood right now in Tennessee where you are?
How are people in your state kind of moving about?
We talked a couple of weeks ago about your record
early voting that had happened. I talked to a couple
of people actually in Tennessee that it's said for the
first time when they went to vote, there were lines
(08:13):
at early voting and like and feeling a certain kind
of energy. What has the mood been.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, we've talked about on this show that slaces like
Tennessee that figure out this system are going to be
models for everywhere, right, I mean the problem in Tennessee.
We have incredible candidates running incredible I'm Sundell Brooks, the
mother of a victim of the waffle house shooting, is running.
Megan Barry is running against Marshall Blackburn and has tremendous
(08:43):
support here in Nsville, where we have a great majority
of the population of our area. Fantastic candidates covenant moms
running things like that. The problem is we've been jare manders.
So we're say we're fighting an uphill battle with both
arms and both legs tied behind our back. Is kind
of app and so the question is we're laying the
(09:04):
groundwork for something here. There's tons of mobilization around gun safety,
around other issues, and I think partially in the aftermath
of mass shootings like the ones I write about in
my book, people started to wake up to hey, wait,
this system isn't working for us. But it's just hard
to see how much germandering safe districts like Jim Cooper's
(09:26):
old district of reliably great Democratic congressman here collapsing those
into just adomized voting blocks. It's just hard to see how.
And again, I'm just reinforcing something you and I have
talked about a million times here, which is when the
other side controls the judges, and judges can get away
with yep this. So we're seeing that across the country,
(09:47):
and so I hope there are some amazing surprise victories here.
I think we've built coalitions here that I think are
going to sustain. I think people are aware, but I
also think that the flip side is if that doesn't happen,
the other side can say, look, we've built this system
that can weather even the most energized coalition on the
(10:09):
other side and still win. And so we'll see. I'm
going to a bunch of different election watch parties tonight
for different candidates, and I'll let you know how that goes.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Please do because I think you know, I think you
said an important phrase, which is building infrastructure, that the
ability to turn the reddest of states purple is not
something that happens overnight. It's not something that happens in
one election cycle or two election cycles. I never thought
in my life that I would see the state of
(10:39):
Georgia turn blue, and it's done so twice. And so
I think that Georgia is a model for the kinds
of decades long work that needs to go into these states,
the same way that we are seeing work being done
in Texas to mobilize people around these systems of ry
(11:00):
mandering that have just been the law the land, and like,
what can people do? But I think that when you
see a Georgia, when you see in North Carolina, when
you see these places that are fundamentally have been read
for generations make this change. It's not like people all
of a sudden woke up and had an epiphany. It's
the work that's being done quietly and largely underfunded that
(11:24):
gets to this place well.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
But also that we didn't get into this whole overnight either,
And so there's a fifty year history of Republicans realizing
that power runs through judiciaries and that grassroots organizations like
the NRA at the time have tremendous way and deep
pockets and things like that. And so I do think
(11:49):
that you and I spoke about in the beginning that
there was a frustration of our side to not see
that for quite a long time. And I think right
now there's it's encouraging to see organizations and other groups
and people and voters recognizing that this is part of
the process. That you can go off and say anything
you want on social media, but if you don't have
a plan for how school boards and election boards and
(12:13):
library boards and things like that are the ground on
which we build. And so I just you know, I
think we also we've started in a hole in part
because of this, and I think there's a waking up
about that. But I don't know, it's funny that like
Tennessee is the state of al Gore. It's the a
form of centrism that we used to kind of have
(12:35):
as a model that would be represented of the what
was called the time the New South. And so it's
not like people can't do it, it's just, you know,
our politics don't allow it.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Right now, Let's look ahead a little bit if we can.
I personally can't see a damn things past today, but
I do want to take a look ahead at the
two versions of America that we're staring at right now.
What do you see going forward? If Donald Trump wins.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Well, predictions are hard. Again, people should know we're speaking
before the election, but you know, I'm happy to predict,
Like if anybody listens to this, I would bet that
the Kansas City Chiefs are going to beat the Tampa
Bay Buccaneers. I'm Monday Night football in overtime by six points,
just a feeling I have. We'll have to see what happens,
and I guess for the election, the issue is going
(13:32):
to be. You know, it's funny because I've been asked
a lot by the media, like how can people heal
and how can people take back their mental health and
things like that. And what I keep saying is uncomfortable
blaming that on individual psychology because it's so responsive to
external factors. And so in a way, if the candidate
who quote unquote wins the election, says, we've had a
(13:54):
hard time do this election, and now it's time to
bring things back together. And unfortunately we're in a zero
some political system, but let's make sure there are more
voices at the table that would do more for mental
health than anything that I could ever recommend in terms
of like sleep and eat a lot of snacks and
stuff like that. I don't have a ton of faith
that if Donald Trump won he would do that. But
(14:16):
even for Trump, he's been pushed into this crazy dark
place and also been pushed by people to whom he
sold his soul, like RFA Junior, to adopt crazy positions.
And so in a normal election, there would be like, Okay,
we've had this, let's all come together. But I think
we have a winner take all, zero sum political system
that Trump has taken to heart, and for him, winning
(14:38):
means then wiping out your enemies. And so I guess
the question would be if this is that, if that
is the outcome here. There was shock in twenty sixteen
went he won, and then people mobilized around democratic institutions.
And the question will be is that going to happen
here or is his power all that much greater because
he's like the staypuff marshmallow Man at the end of
(15:00):
the first Ghostbusters movie, like he's just ingested everything already,
and he already has more mechanisms of power and more
of a plan. Are people exhausted from the election or
is there going to be resilience or are people you know,
I've heard so many people say people get what they
deserve or something like that, like kind of let it
play out as a morality tale. So I think it'll
(15:21):
be a pretty interesting you know, we can talk about
this going forward. I think it'll be a pretty interesting
challenge if that happens, which I don't hope it doesn't.
For the left, do we move to the center, Do
we move to the left or we in the resistance?
Are we just giving up? Are we all going to
take my advice and move to Dave and Busters? You know?
And so we'll have to see. I don't know how
(15:41):
would you answer that question.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I don't ever remember because this has never happened before,
the kind of collective anxiety and stress and fear that
people have right now that you're seeing all around social media.
And I that I have probably what I call pandemic
level anxiety right now, where I'm worried about myself, my family,
(16:09):
everyone around me, and like what is going to happen?
Like what will America look like moving forward? And you know,
much in the same way that I don't feel as
a country we have processed the trauma induced by COVID.
I don't know if A Harris wins. I think that
(16:30):
the work ahead is so hard, right, like, at least
we know that we can link arms and try and
build and repair together. But the fracture is so deep
and so big that it is going to take all
of us to put it back together. And I don't
(16:52):
know if we I don't think that we ever go
back to the before time, much in the same way
that I feel, like, quote unquote post COVID, that we
haven't really gone back to a before time. Like you know,
you know more so than anyone that if you don't
process trauma, it you know, manifests itself in other ways.
(17:13):
And so I'm curious as to what that looks like collectively.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I mean, again, I have very strong opinions about if
Harris wins, I have very strong opinions, but I don't
feel like we're there right now. I mean, if Harris winds,
reparation can't just be let's all come together around the table.
It actually means trying to understand some deeper currents about
what Trump has promised other people and why that resonates.
It's not just like I mean, I'd never forget in
(17:38):
my book, like some guys said, liberals think that if
they just shout their policies louder or market them different,
I'm going to agree with them. But I actually have
a totally different paradigm. So it'll take understanding different paradigms
for that. But we're not there right now, Like, let's
let's figure out what's going to happen. I hope that's
a problem we have.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I mean I do. I will say the same. I
do hope that it is a problem that we have,
because I think that you and I will continue being
in conversation about what comes next regardless. But I want
to say, Jonathan, as we close out today, that I
really I have deep appreciation for you for the way
(18:18):
that you've shown up for the WOKF audience over the
last four years, with such commitment and such passion. It
really means a lot to me but also to the
audience to have you as their weekly guide. And I
really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I feel the same so deeply, and I'm so excited
to keep having these conversations and hopefully we'll be having
them just as we always do, free and open. It
might be like coming to you live from an undisclosed
location behind the whack a mole at a Dave Investor somewhere.
I get no money from Dave Investors. I just am
a fan. But so you know, TBD. But we will
(18:54):
keep talking, so.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Everybody real booking talking. Buckle up, hang in there, everybody,
as Jonathan has been telling us to do for four years,
appreciate you. That is it for me today, Dear friends
on WOKEF as always, power to the people and to
(19:17):
all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.
Host
Danielle Moodie
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