July 30, 2024 • 35 mins
With polarization on the rise, some may start feeling helpless and hopeless, but there's a beacon of hope on the horizon...an international organization actively working towards global peace.
Shamil Idriss, CEO of Search for Common Ground, a non-profit that works to stabilize conflict zones and heal communities, joins Sophia to talk about the mission of the organization, the impact of their work, transforming conflict into cooperation, the five vital pillars to determine a healthy society, the power of using your voice to push for change, and what is essential for peacebuilding.
For more information on Search for Common Ground and how you can contribute to their mission, visit sfcg.org
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hey,
Smarty's today's guest is someone I am so thrilled to
be talking to because the world feels heavy and hard,
(00:25):
and some of the conflicts that it seems like we're
up against as open hearted humans are almost unbearable to watch,
certainly really difficult to process, and I think they can
breed a sense of helplessness, not knowing what to do,
how to help, where to turn, what to say, how
(00:45):
to make the best use of your time and resources
to actually help people instead of add to the mess
and the noise. And that is where Search for Common
Ground comes in. They are the world's largest dedicated peace
building organization, and today I have managed to carve out
a quick interview with Shamil Idris, who is the CEO
(01:09):
of Search for Common Ground. He has led their efforts
to end violent conflict in more than thirty five countries globally,
including some of the most devastating conflict zones we have
all studied or are currently watching, in the Middle East
and in Africa. Shamil was appointed in two thousand and
five by the UN Secretary General Kofianan as the Deputy
(01:31):
Director of the UN Alliance of Civilizations. In this role,
he supported high level political and religious leaders in developing
policy recommendations and action plans to improve cross cultural relations
between Western and Muslim majority countries before, during, and after
the Arab Spring revolutions. During his tenure at the UN,
(01:52):
he worked closely with policymakers from the US, Europe, and
the Middle East and Africa in conceiving and implementing conflict
pro mention projects and increasing cross cultural understanding. Shamil is
a pioneer in the use of interactive media technologies for
cross cultural education and collaboration, and he delivered an incredible
(02:17):
ted X presentation recently on the Truths about Violent Conflict
that you absolutely have to watch. When I really feel
like I just don't know what to do anymore, He's
one of the first people I call to say what now,
And so I'm really grateful that he took the time
today to join us and to hopefully point us all
(02:38):
in the direction of a little more hope and a
little more understanding. Shamil, thank you so much for coming
to join me today. I'm so grateful in a moment
(03:02):
like this, when I think things feel immensely fraught and terrifying,
and we see parts of history repeating themselves and now
we see it twenty four hours a day through our phones,
and everyone feels stressed, helpless, overwhelmed. I'm just curious if
you could start for those who might not know, and
(03:22):
explain what the mission of Search for Common Ground is.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
So Search for Common Ground is a global peace building organization,
and our mission is to transform the way the world
deals with conflict away from sort of adversarial kind of
win lose approaches toward cooperative problem solving. So we're really
not here to end conflict. We see conflict as a
very natural thing, and you know, if it's handled well,
(03:48):
it can actually be the most generative and creative force.
It can be actually wonderful, and if it's handled badly,
it can be horrible, and we see plenty of evidence
of that today. But our mission is to transform conflict
in cooperation incredible.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So when you talk about global peace building, it's a
lovely turn of phrase, but I think a lot of
people don't really know what peace building actually entails. You know,
how do you define what the most important aspects or
perhaps pillars of peace building are?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, So I mean, first just so your listeners are
where you know we've got We've got about eight hundred
and fifty full time staff in thirty six countries and
many more partners and volunteers, and so this is not
a small operation and we're one of, frankly a growing
number of peace building organizations. And I think part of
(04:46):
why we're seeing that is that, you know, just like
you sometimes have to have a breakdown to have a breakthrough,
I think just as you started this conversation, you're not
dreaming it, you're not imagining it. You know, the world
is increasingly conflictual and not an a good way. You know,
polarization is on the rise, and so you know that
leads to a lot of bad things, but those triggers
a lot of you know, really positive energy. To answer
(05:08):
your question, you know, we looked at we've identified what
we think are what I would call the five vital
signs of a healthy society. Many years ago, there's a
big shift in the medical community away from just treating
disease to preventing disease to promoting a healthy lifestyle. And
that was revolutionary, and a big part of that was
(05:31):
scientists and doctors figuring out, well, what are the vital
signs of a healthy human being. And there's enough consensus
now on those same aid vital signs that if you
go to a doctor pretty much anywhere in the world,
the first thing they're going to do is test your
eight vital signs and then it's the same ones everywhere. Right. Well,
we haven't had that until recently for a healthy society,
and so I'll share with you the five vital signs
(05:53):
of a healthy societies. We understand them. And as I
share them, just keep in mind this isn't like all
good things. If we wanted to list all good things,
it would probably be on vital science. This is specifically
helping us understand is this a society that's likely to
fall apart when there's a crisis, an attempted assassination as
we just had a pandemic, an earthquake, whatever it might be.
(06:15):
Or is this society that's likely to hold maybe even
come together around those kinds of crises. And so those
five pillars are The first one is intercommunal trust Black, white, Muslim, Jewish, rural, urban,
whatever it might be. Republican Democrats who took depending on
your society, like just trust between communities The second is
institutional legitimacy, which you can kind of think of as
(06:36):
trust for institutions like the institutions that govern and serve us,
the police, sure, the judiciary. It doesn't have to be
just government. It could be the media. Do people trust
the media? So do people have any faith and trust
in those institutions? The third is levels of physical violence,
because violence tends to be get more violence. The fourth
is really subjective. It's people's sense of agency. Can I
(06:57):
do anything that will improve my lot in life, that
will improve my kid's future, that will protect my community?
Do people feel that sense of agency?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And the fifth is resources, like where are societies resources
going to? Is it going to more reactive stuff, more
top down controls, more prisons, more guns, more restrictions, or
are resources going more into more upstream things that build community,
that build that trust between you know, you and me,
that build that trust for institutions, et ceterat. So those
are the five things that we look at everywhere from
(07:27):
literally Texas to me and mar And when we think
about a healthy society, we think about, you know, where
is society trending along those five? And unfortunately it's true
that the US has been in recent years more than
a decade, trending in a very negative direction pretty much
(07:48):
on all five of those. But the good news is
that is not at all irreversible and we can all
do something about that.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And now for our sponsors, And when you say it's
not irreversible, you know you you come from an organization
with expertise in places like working on patching up the
immense societal you know, rips, tears, devastation of for example,
(08:19):
the Rwandan genocide, like these are these are not you know,
small eye issues. And I'm curious when you talk about resolution,
when you talk about how, you know, the negative trending
that we see in our country, for example, and that
we're seeing in certain places around the world, how do
(08:42):
you begin to reverse that? How do you begin to
create that resolution in real time?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Well? I think there are a few things. One is,
you talked to you mentioned Rwanda. You're mentioning many of
the places where we work that had been already been
through like cataclysmic violence, right, Yeah, So in those kinds
of cases, you're talking about how do entire populations process
that kind of trauma? And not to be overly simplistic,
but I think one really critical element that I would
(09:11):
share and you know, scientists much smarter than I have
proved this, but we see this in our work in
communities that the most important experience for somebody to go
through in order to feel confident and safe as a
member of a community is having the experience of being
heard and respected, not the experience of being agreed with,
(09:32):
but being heard and respected. And especially if you've been
through trauma, if you've been through violence, that experience is
absolutely essential. And as a peace building organization, for instance,
we would never push somebody to you know, you should
really empathize with those people who just destroyed your village
or those people who, you know, whatever it might be.
One of the worst things you can do is just
revictimize people by forcing them, you know, trying to manipulate
(09:55):
them somehow to understand the other when they haven't had
that experience that they need to go through first are
really having their own things. So that's one of the
first things that I think one of the second things
that you can do is and this is a lot
easier said than done, so I just acknowledge that, but
I think we all can experience this. We don't have
to have been through thankfully catchplasmic violence. We can experience
(10:16):
this in an argument with our uber driver or our
husband or wife or whatever it might be. Is just
practicing and helping to separate the person from the action. Right,
I'll tell you story after the Taliban took over. You know,
the only Afghan woman leading an international non governmental organization
in Afghanistan today is our director there. She's an extraordinarily
(10:39):
courageous woman, Zuri.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And the.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Night that the Taliban took over Cobble, she and the
rest of our colleagues there were all home. They were scared.
They were texting each other on WhatsApp and one of
them said, what are we going to do? You know
on Monday, would you know? And she said, look, why
don't the women stay home and I will go with
the men and we'll see if we can get to
(11:05):
the office and then we'll take it from there. So
she went and she was able to get to the
office with some of our colleagues mail colleagues, and directly
in front of the office was the same police checkpoint
that had been there for years, except now instead of
the police, it was a bunch of Taliban soldiers. And
she directed our head of programs, a guy named a bar.
She said, why don't you go out there and offer
them the same thing we used to offer the police,
which is you know, it was August, it's really hot,
(11:27):
there's no water. Tell them if they need water, there's
a little spout on the outside of our office building.
They can come and fill up their canteens. Within an hour,
there was a heavy knock on the door. All these
guys with guns show up, really thankful, thanks for the water.
Can we prey in your courtyard because there are a
lot of us. The street's really busy and there's nowhere
to pray. So that put Zura in a really uncomfortable position.
(11:49):
She said, look, we're a community organization. If there are
a lot of men with guns at the front of
our building like it, they'll scare people off. But I
understand your problem. You know, could you do it for
no more than a week, but kind of find another
solution within the week And they agreed. Every day since
then has been that kind of you know, negotiation. I
tell that story because you know, to me, Zora is
(12:12):
like like several of my colleagues who lead our programs
in difficult places. She's like a black belt of how
do you build peace just an agree with Taliban policies
at all, and yet it's granting that respect for the
person even while really disagreeing with what they want to do.
And over time it's because of that approach that that
(12:32):
team is tripled in size. You know, we support the
largest network of local civil society activists. So the second
thing you can do, the second thing that you can do,
after you know, letting ensuring people feel heard and respected,
is try to separate the person from the position, even
if you really disagree with the person. You can do
that with all the principles that you have. It doesn't
(12:54):
mean you have to descend into assuming ill intent or
calling the names or demonizing them. Last thing I would
share this just takes more time, but this is kind
of a non negotiable pillar to everything that we do.
Everywhere we work. The first thing we do is we
build what we call multi partial teams. So that's a
a lot of syllables multi partial, but basically what it
(13:14):
means is people who are not only local the people have,
but who draw from across the conflict lines. So if
you're working in a society with big racial divisions or
big political divisions or ethnic divisions, and your team is
not only local but has members but who are from
each of those different communities. It takes time to build
(13:35):
a team like that, to build a network like that,
to build a community like that, right, But once you do,
those teams are really powerful. They come up with the
most creative ideas. They are the ones that say, you
know what, if you use that word, nobody in my
community is going to listen to us use that word
in my community. Or you know what, if we do
something positive in that neighborhood, all doors will open to us.
(13:58):
Because that's actually the key everything. And you get that.
You know, you can imagine this in any set like
you if there's classes between police and youth and you're
able to bring you know, build a team of former
retired cops and former gang leaders and youth community activists
and they form a team, they're going to be unstoppable
in many ways. And so those are the three things
that sort of share with you that are key. You know,
(14:20):
make sure that people, especially those that have been through pain,
can have the real and authentic experience of being heard
and respected, because they're not going to be able to
move forward without that help. Support people to connect with
the person, even respect the person, even if they completely
oppose their positions, you know. And third, you know it
takes time, but try to build those allies, you know,
(14:40):
across dividing lines. And the best way to do that
is through what we call the common ground approach, which
is cooperate on what you can agree with, understand the differences,
but act on the commonalities. Understand where you're not going
to agree, but cooperate on the areas where you can agree.
And that kind of process builds trust over time.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, it's owns so complex and also so simple, and
you know, I'm I think I'm particularly struck by the
clarity around saying, Look, don't ask a person who believes
themselves to be your enemy or someone who was your
(15:17):
victim to immediately empathize with your situation, you know, be
present with them, learn a little bit about them, and
then you can kind of get into the situations the policy.
You know, you wrote an article about the need for
colleges to teach students conflict resolution skills in order to
(15:39):
make a difference, you know, both in their lives, on
their campuses, I would imagine in their workplaces, and it
you know, it feels particularly timely given the protests we
see at colleges around the country. It I will say,
it is so incredibly painful as a you know, an
(16:03):
outsider to these two communities in the Middle East, but
places that I care for, people that I care for,
you know, involved in every aspect or in every position
on this pinwheel. And I think so many people feel that,
you know, it's it's incredibly painful to watch anti Semitism
on the rise, and the dehumanization of the Jewish people.
(16:24):
It's horrific to watch the dehumanization and the suffering and
the constant bombardment of the Palestinian people. And something that
particularly shatters me for both of these groups of people
is that I feel like we're seeing this one hundred
year cycle of caste put two groups of humans who've
(16:48):
consistently been harmed in this spin cycle. And I know
I have felt helpless. I know I no matter what
I've said, I've been told I've said it the wrong
way or done the wrong thing, or somehow taken no
sides and both sides and one of the wrong sides,
but all of the sides. It is it's paralyzing to
(17:13):
try to uplift voices, try to apply pressure where we
can continue calling representatives, continue calling for healing for so
many people, everyone I know is like, I just don't
know what to do anymore. And you're one of the
only people I think any of us who is lucky
enough to know you knows to call when we feel
(17:34):
like we don't know what to do. So understanding how
things can change and also understanding places you've changed again,
doing the peace building post Rowandan genocide feels incredibly important. Now,
how do you look at an active conflict like this
(17:56):
and begin to imagine how peace building begins when it's
still continuing? You know, how do you know when to go?
How long do you wait? How do you know who
to call? Are there things you do to stand up
for human life in a moment like this that maybe
you could share with those of us that feels really stuck.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, I think first it's really important, and thank you
for opening this and to give yourself and those who
are feeling like you are a little bit of grace.
You know, I've been working at this for decades, and
in this particular conflict Israeli Passiate conflict stretching back decades
in addition to the war going on right now and
(18:37):
the devastation and Gaza in particular, and yet, honestly, Sophia,
since October seventh, I don't think I've had a really
meaningful and constructive conversation about this across dividing lines that
was anything less than an hour at least. And this
is not the era of our long conversations, and in fact,
(18:59):
the most useful conversation sin have been the ones that
had happened multiple times, over multiple hours, over weeks, and
even because of how directly or vicariously traumatized people are,
whether they're on the ground there or they are doom
scrolling unable to sleep because of the horror of what
they're seeing on their phones every night. So in a
(19:21):
world where you know, and I had a number of
people who said to me, I feel like I haven't
said enough, or I've said too much, or you know,
I'm not dissuading people from taking really staunch stances. And
I hope when people take stances, they take stances that
are principled that they apply equally to all people. If
they're opposed to the killing of innocent civilians, as I
think we all are, I hope they are posting all
(19:42):
contexts and in all sense that we value all lies equally,
and yet at the same time, you know, for us
to answer your question about how we go about this,
this happens to be a conflict in which we have
a long standing presence on the ground with a uniquely
registered both with the Palsanine Authority and Ramala as well
(20:04):
as with the Israeli government. And our team is equal
parts Palisine and Israeli, and in fact we but just
before this war started, we've made the decision to recruit
new more senior leaders, both Israeli and Palisini, and we
just announced yesterday we recruited the Palestinian director about a
month ago, the Israeli director, she read just yesterday to
very very powerful, wonderful women leaders, not surprisingly. And so
(20:30):
for me, I am really quite privileged that if somebody
like you calls me, I'm just just sharing my opinion
with you. I'm listening to what our team on the
ground feels needs to happen, which sugar shouldn't be said,
And that's really much more important to me than anything
else to support that kind of multi partial team on
(20:53):
the ground, because that's where real peace is going to
be built over time. That doesn't mean that there's not
a role for people to play here. People can support
the work of organizations their cars. We hope that they do.
They can raise their voice, as you said you have
with congressmen and senators pushing for a serious The main
thing that's been lacking for the last twenty years in
(21:13):
that conflict is a legitimate political process. And by legitimate
and I mean one that actually includes Israelis and Palestinians
in it, you know, and people.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, because people are not their governments, as you said, yeah, earlier.
And it's so important to remember that we like as people,
we have the capability and often I believe, the desire
to live and live peacefully together. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
And I think I don't want to skip past on
the college campuses, because that's where you started, and I
think it's important to I think these young people should
be celebrated for voicing their principles, for taking a lot
of risk, taking a lot of heat. I think we
need to recognize that the way that oftentimes this is
covered in the media, and many protests movements are covered
(22:05):
this way where only the most extreme voices are amplified.
Those extreme voices exist and absolutely need to be confronted.
And yet from you know, you you talk to organizers,
including Jewish student organizers in these protests, there's a lot
going on there that doesn't fit into the neat buckets
of the extreme kind of but you know, picture that's painted.
(22:31):
I've talked to many Jewish friends, older Jewish friends and
supporters who are struggling because their children are saying things
that they find really objectionable. Their children are questioning the
legitimacy of the State of Israel to begin with, and
they're saying, I have grandparents who died in the Holocaust,
like I cannot. I can't even have this conversation with
my teenager. You have that conversation going on, you have
(22:53):
the conversation going on among people who are really desperate
to end the bombing and gaza saying, I don't understand
how this can be allowed to go on day in
and day out, and day in and day out like that.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I mean, it's so horrific, And.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So I think, book I, all wars do end. There
is nothing as complicated as this conflict is. There is
nothing so complicated about this, honestly, that makes it impervious
to finally a resolution and to a lasting peace. But
when that piece happens, when it comes, it's going to
(23:27):
be people on the ground, Israelis and Palestinians. It was
likely going to be people who might make others here
in the States really uncomfortable, you know, people who have constituency,
and right now the people who have a lot of constituency,
both in Israel and Palestine are angry and hurt. Yeah,
you know, but it's people agreeing to things that you
(23:49):
might be shocked that they'd agree to. And the reason
is because they're the ones who are living the consequences
of this and as strongly as those of us outside
might feel about it, and this conflict resonates more than
any other all over the world, and so a lot
of people for strongly about it. It is really the
support for local peace building and mobilizing international inducements both
pressure and incentives to support that kind of peace building.
(24:14):
And the hard fact is that sometimes again it's that
breakdown to break through things like sometimes the only thing
that shakes us out of our stupor you know, these
last twenty years of thinking this conflict, maybe this conflict
would just sort of go away. I think I mentioned
when I met you last time, that I talked to
(24:34):
a former Israeli foreign minister the last time I was
there who said to me, look, this conflict hasn't been
an issue in the last five national elections here, and
then the Foreign ministry lead into me said, let me explain.
It's not that the candidates who raised it lost. It'said
it wasn't even an issue. And we've allowed ourselves to
believe that this conflict would just go away or that
(24:55):
was somehow contained, and so for then to just be
thrown up in the most traumatic way for Israelis, they're
very much back on their heels. And on the Palestinian side,
you know, we've seen just a a shock and a
dismay and a depression over the lack of concerted international
(25:15):
pressure to have international rights standards, you know, enforced. So
that's that's where we are. You're you and I recording
this at a time where there's news that there there
might be progress towards the cease fire, god willing, you know,
and the errors that there will have been there will
(25:37):
eventually be. And all I would ask people who care
about this conflict to consider, is that again, when peace
comes it it it needs to come with people on
the ground supporting and mobilizing for it. And I hope
you will consider supporting them in it. And if you can't,
(25:58):
if the only thing you can do is see the
pain on one side and advocate for that one side,
you're probably not helping us get somewhere that's going to
be better for all because there's not going to be
a one side wins this solution.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Well, and that's that's a zero sum game, and that's
just not what humanity's meant for. You know, the reality
is that people are suffering. It's absolutely devastating, and to
see harm done in this way is I mean, it's
it's unconscionable. And I really hope you know, I appreciate
(26:32):
that you are able to speak about such emotional things
with pragmatism, because it is a requirement for solutions and
to explain that you know, this will happen, this will resolve,
there are options. I think what's hard, as you know,
(26:54):
an emotional soul sitting across from you today, is that
my brain immediately says, yeah, but was this necessary? Why
did all these people have to die in vain? Why
are people so awful to each other? How could this
be allowed? How could a government be allowed to do this?
How like the questions fall out and what I've had
to learn, and in studying the kind of work that
(27:16):
you all do at search for Common Ground, I've really
had to learn that that that is my own trauma,
that is my own pain, that is my own reaction
to the horror that I'm seeing, and that's what makes
me human. But that doesn't necessarily always have a place
in a conversation or on the internet, you know. And
I think that your advice a to give us, for
(27:39):
all of us, to give ourselves grace, because clearly, if
all the world leaders don't have the answer, how are
we supposed to and be? I think it's really important
for me and probably important for our friends at home,
to remind myself when you talk about how solutions have
to come locally, you know, it will be Palestinians and
Israelis on the ground who piece build, who bridge build.
(28:02):
That what we should really be doing, if we care
about the conflict, is raising their voices up, giving them
our platforms. We don't always need to add our two
cents to the cacophony. That's already too noisy.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah. Look, and let me be really clear, I am
not advocating against that humanity that you just shared. I
think it's beautiful. I think it's necessary. I think one
of the reasons that I believe so much in local
sort of multi partial teams is because that collective humanity
from across the dividing lines, from community members who bring
all of the passion because they're living it, their families
(28:37):
are the ones that are under threat. You know, they've
been through this. That collective humanity is indominable, you know,
once it's really supported and mobilized. And I don't want
to be pollyannish about this. Where we are right now
with this war still ongoing, there's not a lot of
appetite for bridge building whatever. There's just the understanding that
(28:58):
in every war and every conflict out history, there's a
way that it's come to an end, and it has
been you know, anything really sustainable piece without the people
on the ground making it happen across the dividing line.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Right. We'll be back in just a minute after a
few words from our favorite sponsors. When you zoom out
and you think about the work you're doing, whether it
be on the conflict we're all watching happen halfway around
the world, or you know, the kind of tension that's building,
as you said in our backsliding democracy here at home,
(29:34):
I mean, which resulted in you know, wild violence and
all of the things. How how do you mobilize at
common ground? Who begins? How do the teams work? How
can we support you? You know where? Tell us about
the hopeful part and how we can get involved.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Well, look, you know the first group of Israeli in
Palestinians that we've been working with for years that wanted
to reconnect after October seventh and after the war began.
We're an extraordinarily powerful group of women leaders both in
Israel and Palestine. This is oftentimes the case, and so
that gave me a lot of hope, and we have
(30:17):
been building out those networks, both Palestini and Israeli. And
one of the things that we see in many of
the violent conflicts around the world is that when women
I mean it's obvious, but when women are part of
the decision making and part of the processes, you are
more likely to get a peace agreement, and you're more
likely to get a peace agreement that lasts. It's just
all the research shows it. So we're seeing that in
(30:39):
Israel and Palestine, and it's exciting. I don't want to
pretend it's going to make a difference tomorrow given what's happening,
but it is building extraordinary momentum in Pennsylvania. After the
assassination attempt, we have team in Pennsylvania. They mobilize the
network of faith leaders, business leaders, and veterans which we've
been building with local partners across partisan lines for months
(31:01):
out of an explicit concern that there be political violence.
And we were you know, the night that had happened.
It happened on a Saturday. The things that were shared
by that team then made their way into sermons in
churches in much of Pennsylvania the next day. The mobile.
There's a poll worker in Pennsylvania, volunteer poll worker who
on our own spent forty hours mobilizing to try to
(31:23):
ensure that she could get bipartisan you know, volunteers at
the polls. You know, come elections. But these stories aren't
being told. But every terrible but first they're always there,
and then every terrible thing that happened happens, more of
them come out of the woodwork, and what we need
do was welcome them and recognize. And so the last
(31:43):
thing that I would share is I'd really encourage your
followers definitely support the work of Search for Common Ground.
You know, monthly contributions really helped support that kind of
the women's leadership in Israel and palacetign, the grassroots leadership
and statewide leadership here in the state. Try to make
a difference in your own community. There's a pieces possible
(32:05):
pledge that we have on our website at Search for
Common Ground. There's a shop, a fun way you can
support the organization, the Love Anyway Shop. If you go
to Love Anyway dot com and you want to do
your shopping for friends, what you'll see there, much of
it has been made by people in conflict settings, and
the proceeds go to people who are are making that difference.
(32:25):
And if you if you can bring yourself to do it,
see if you can reach out across the dividing lines yourself.
It doesn't mean that you have to agree with somebody's positions.
It just means that you're willing to reach out with
genuine curiosity and care respect for them as a person.
Even if you disagree with their point of view and
(32:46):
try to initiate some of those some of those conversations.
So there are a number of things that people can do.
There's more information for a ways people can connect at
search for common ground dot org.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Search forcommon ground dot org is the r L I.
I know we're coming up on time for you. Thank
you for carving some out for us here. I just
want to ask you before you go, as you look
at the year ahead, what feels like your work in progress?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Well, we are working on you know. I had the
privilege of having conversations with some of my real heroic leaders,
former President of Obama and former Prime Minister at our
Durn just into our Durn of New Zealand, you know
who became prime minister at the age of thirty seven.
And I was sort of struck recently the degree to
which they spoke, you know, reflectively about wishing that they
(33:34):
could have done more even to unite their respective countries.
And this, combined with the increasing polarization, has made us
sort of think more and more that I think for
the time being, maybe the era of the unifying individual
leaders is gone. It's just very fun. It's just so
easy to divide people. It's so easy with our platforms
and social media tools to turn people against each other.
(33:55):
And so what we really believe in is collective leadership.
And one of things that's really hard to undercut is
and you have people coming together across partisan lines, across
Israeli Palestinian lines, or across Republican Democrat lines, across Hu
Tuo tootsi lines. And that's the kind of leadership that
can be really rock solid and can really take us
forward in an era of polarization. And so we are
looking at developing a sort of leadership training programs, even
(34:21):
sort of like an academy one day's what I'd like
to have to support people in developing that kind of
capacity for collective leadership. And if we get there in
twenty twenty five, from twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five,
I think we can really be seating a lot of
that kind of powerful, multi partial, peace building leadership here
in the States and around the world.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Well, well what a goal. I think I speak for
everyone listening when I say, count me and us in,
please teach us all of the things, and thank you
so much for coming
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Today, Sophia, Thank you, Thank care
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hey,
Smarty's today's guest is someone I am so thrilled to
be talking to because the world feels heavy and hard,
(00:25):
and some of the conflicts that it seems like we're
up against as open hearted humans are almost unbearable to watch,
certainly really difficult to process, and I think they can
breed a sense of helplessness, not knowing what to do,
how to help, where to turn, what to say, how
(00:45):
to make the best use of your time and resources
to actually help people instead of add to the mess
and the noise. And that is where Search for Common
Ground comes in. They are the world's largest dedicated peace
building organization, and today I have managed to carve out
a quick interview with Shamil Idris, who is the CEO
(01:09):
of Search for Common Ground. He has led their efforts
to end violent conflict in more than thirty five countries globally,
including some of the most devastating conflict zones we have
all studied or are currently watching, in the Middle East
and in Africa. Shamil was appointed in two thousand and
five by the UN Secretary General Kofianan as the Deputy
(01:31):
Director of the UN Alliance of Civilizations. In this role,
he supported high level political and religious leaders in developing
policy recommendations and action plans to improve cross cultural relations
between Western and Muslim majority countries before, during, and after
the Arab Spring revolutions. During his tenure at the UN,
(01:52):
he worked closely with policymakers from the US, Europe, and
the Middle East and Africa in conceiving and implementing conflict
pro mention projects and increasing cross cultural understanding. Shamil is
a pioneer in the use of interactive media technologies for
cross cultural education and collaboration, and he delivered an incredible
(02:17):
ted X presentation recently on the Truths about Violent Conflict
that you absolutely have to watch. When I really feel
like I just don't know what to do anymore, He's
one of the first people I call to say what now,
And so I'm really grateful that he took the time
today to join us and to hopefully point us all
(02:38):
in the direction of a little more hope and a
little more understanding. Shamil, thank you so much for coming
to join me today. I'm so grateful in a moment
(03:02):
like this, when I think things feel immensely fraught and terrifying,
and we see parts of history repeating themselves and now
we see it twenty four hours a day through our phones,
and everyone feels stressed, helpless, overwhelmed. I'm just curious if
you could start for those who might not know, and
(03:22):
explain what the mission of Search for Common Ground is.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
So Search for Common Ground is a global peace building organization,
and our mission is to transform the way the world
deals with conflict away from sort of adversarial kind of
win lose approaches toward cooperative problem solving. So we're really
not here to end conflict. We see conflict as a
very natural thing, and you know, if it's handled well,
(03:48):
it can actually be the most generative and creative force.
It can be actually wonderful, and if it's handled badly,
it can be horrible, and we see plenty of evidence
of that today. But our mission is to transform conflict
in cooperation incredible.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So when you talk about global peace building, it's a
lovely turn of phrase, but I think a lot of
people don't really know what peace building actually entails. You know,
how do you define what the most important aspects or
perhaps pillars of peace building are?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, So I mean, first just so your listeners are
where you know we've got We've got about eight hundred
and fifty full time staff in thirty six countries and
many more partners and volunteers, and so this is not
a small operation and we're one of, frankly a growing
number of peace building organizations. And I think part of
(04:46):
why we're seeing that is that, you know, just like
you sometimes have to have a breakdown to have a breakthrough,
I think just as you started this conversation, you're not
dreaming it, you're not imagining it. You know, the world
is increasingly conflictual and not an a good way. You know,
polarization is on the rise, and so you know that
leads to a lot of bad things, but those triggers
a lot of you know, really positive energy. To answer
(05:08):
your question, you know, we looked at we've identified what
we think are what I would call the five vital
signs of a healthy society. Many years ago, there's a
big shift in the medical community away from just treating
disease to preventing disease to promoting a healthy lifestyle. And
that was revolutionary, and a big part of that was
(05:31):
scientists and doctors figuring out, well, what are the vital
signs of a healthy human being. And there's enough consensus
now on those same aid vital signs that if you
go to a doctor pretty much anywhere in the world,
the first thing they're going to do is test your
eight vital signs and then it's the same ones everywhere. Right. Well,
we haven't had that until recently for a healthy society,
and so I'll share with you the five vital signs
(05:53):
of a healthy societies. We understand them. And as I
share them, just keep in mind this isn't like all
good things. If we wanted to list all good things,
it would probably be on vital science. This is specifically
helping us understand is this a society that's likely to
fall apart when there's a crisis, an attempted assassination as
we just had a pandemic, an earthquake, whatever it might be.
(06:15):
Or is this society that's likely to hold maybe even
come together around those kinds of crises. And so those
five pillars are The first one is intercommunal trust Black, white, Muslim, Jewish, rural, urban,
whatever it might be. Republican Democrats who took depending on
your society, like just trust between communities The second is
institutional legitimacy, which you can kind of think of as
(06:36):
trust for institutions like the institutions that govern and serve us,
the police, sure, the judiciary. It doesn't have to be
just government. It could be the media. Do people trust
the media? So do people have any faith and trust
in those institutions? The third is levels of physical violence,
because violence tends to be get more violence. The fourth
is really subjective. It's people's sense of agency. Can I
(06:57):
do anything that will improve my lot in life, that
will improve my kid's future, that will protect my community?
Do people feel that sense of agency?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And the fifth is resources, like where are societies resources
going to? Is it going to more reactive stuff, more
top down controls, more prisons, more guns, more restrictions, or
are resources going more into more upstream things that build community,
that build that trust between you know, you and me,
that build that trust for institutions, et ceterat. So those
are the five things that we look at everywhere from
(07:27):
literally Texas to me and mar And when we think
about a healthy society, we think about, you know, where
is society trending along those five? And unfortunately it's true
that the US has been in recent years more than
a decade, trending in a very negative direction pretty much
(07:48):
on all five of those. But the good news is
that is not at all irreversible and we can all
do something about that.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And now for our sponsors, And when you say it's
not irreversible, you know you you come from an organization
with expertise in places like working on patching up the
immense societal you know, rips, tears, devastation of for example,
(08:19):
the Rwandan genocide, like these are these are not you know,
small eye issues. And I'm curious when you talk about resolution,
when you talk about how, you know, the negative trending
that we see in our country, for example, and that
we're seeing in certain places around the world, how do
(08:42):
you begin to reverse that? How do you begin to
create that resolution in real time?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Well? I think there are a few things. One is,
you talked to you mentioned Rwanda. You're mentioning many of
the places where we work that had been already been
through like cataclysmic violence, right, Yeah, So in those kinds
of cases, you're talking about how do entire populations process
that kind of trauma? And not to be overly simplistic,
but I think one really critical element that I would
(09:11):
share and you know, scientists much smarter than I have
proved this, but we see this in our work in
communities that the most important experience for somebody to go
through in order to feel confident and safe as a
member of a community is having the experience of being
heard and respected, not the experience of being agreed with,
(09:32):
but being heard and respected. And especially if you've been
through trauma, if you've been through violence, that experience is
absolutely essential. And as a peace building organization, for instance,
we would never push somebody to you know, you should
really empathize with those people who just destroyed your village
or those people who, you know, whatever it might be.
One of the worst things you can do is just
revictimize people by forcing them, you know, trying to manipulate
(09:55):
them somehow to understand the other when they haven't had
that experience that they need to go through first are
really having their own things. So that's one of the
first things that I think one of the second things
that you can do is and this is a lot
easier said than done, so I just acknowledge that, but
I think we all can experience this. We don't have
to have been through thankfully catchplasmic violence. We can experience
(10:16):
this in an argument with our uber driver or our
husband or wife or whatever it might be. Is just
practicing and helping to separate the person from the action. Right,
I'll tell you story after the Taliban took over. You know,
the only Afghan woman leading an international non governmental organization
in Afghanistan today is our director there. She's an extraordinarily
(10:39):
courageous woman, Zuri.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And the.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Night that the Taliban took over Cobble, she and the
rest of our colleagues there were all home. They were scared.
They were texting each other on WhatsApp and one of
them said, what are we going to do? You know
on Monday, would you know? And she said, look, why
don't the women stay home and I will go with
the men and we'll see if we can get to
(11:05):
the office and then we'll take it from there. So
she went and she was able to get to the
office with some of our colleagues mail colleagues, and directly
in front of the office was the same police checkpoint
that had been there for years, except now instead of
the police, it was a bunch of Taliban soldiers. And
she directed our head of programs, a guy named a bar.
She said, why don't you go out there and offer
them the same thing we used to offer the police,
which is you know, it was August, it's really hot,
(11:27):
there's no water. Tell them if they need water, there's
a little spout on the outside of our office building.
They can come and fill up their canteens. Within an hour,
there was a heavy knock on the door. All these
guys with guns show up, really thankful, thanks for the water.
Can we prey in your courtyard because there are a
lot of us. The street's really busy and there's nowhere
to pray. So that put Zura in a really uncomfortable position.
(11:49):
She said, look, we're a community organization. If there are
a lot of men with guns at the front of
our building like it, they'll scare people off. But I
understand your problem. You know, could you do it for
no more than a week, but kind of find another
solution within the week And they agreed. Every day since
then has been that kind of you know, negotiation. I
tell that story because you know, to me, Zora is
(12:12):
like like several of my colleagues who lead our programs
in difficult places. She's like a black belt of how
do you build peace just an agree with Taliban policies
at all, and yet it's granting that respect for the
person even while really disagreeing with what they want to do.
And over time it's because of that approach that that
(12:32):
team is tripled in size. You know, we support the
largest network of local civil society activists. So the second
thing you can do, the second thing that you can do,
after you know, letting ensuring people feel heard and respected,
is try to separate the person from the position, even
if you really disagree with the person. You can do
that with all the principles that you have. It doesn't
(12:54):
mean you have to descend into assuming ill intent or
calling the names or demonizing them. Last thing I would
share this just takes more time, but this is kind
of a non negotiable pillar to everything that we do.
Everywhere we work. The first thing we do is we
build what we call multi partial teams. So that's a
a lot of syllables multi partial, but basically what it
(13:14):
means is people who are not only local the people have,
but who draw from across the conflict lines. So if
you're working in a society with big racial divisions or
big political divisions or ethnic divisions, and your team is
not only local but has members but who are from
each of those different communities. It takes time to build
(13:35):
a team like that, to build a network like that,
to build a community like that, right, But once you do,
those teams are really powerful. They come up with the
most creative ideas. They are the ones that say, you
know what, if you use that word, nobody in my
community is going to listen to us use that word
in my community. Or you know what, if we do
something positive in that neighborhood, all doors will open to us.
(13:58):
Because that's actually the key everything. And you get that.
You know, you can imagine this in any set like
you if there's classes between police and youth and you're
able to bring you know, build a team of former
retired cops and former gang leaders and youth community activists
and they form a team, they're going to be unstoppable
in many ways. And so those are the three things
that sort of share with you that are key. You know,
(14:20):
make sure that people, especially those that have been through pain,
can have the real and authentic experience of being heard
and respected, because they're not going to be able to
move forward without that help. Support people to connect with
the person, even respect the person, even if they completely
oppose their positions, you know. And third, you know it
takes time, but try to build those allies, you know,
(14:40):
across dividing lines. And the best way to do that
is through what we call the common ground approach, which
is cooperate on what you can agree with, understand the differences,
but act on the commonalities. Understand where you're not going
to agree, but cooperate on the areas where you can agree.
And that kind of process builds trust over time.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, it's owns so complex and also so simple, and
you know, I'm I think I'm particularly struck by the
clarity around saying, Look, don't ask a person who believes
themselves to be your enemy or someone who was your
(15:17):
victim to immediately empathize with your situation, you know, be
present with them, learn a little bit about them, and
then you can kind of get into the situations the policy.
You know, you wrote an article about the need for
colleges to teach students conflict resolution skills in order to
(15:39):
make a difference, you know, both in their lives, on
their campuses, I would imagine in their workplaces, and it
you know, it feels particularly timely given the protests we
see at colleges around the country. It I will say,
it is so incredibly painful as a you know, an
(16:03):
outsider to these two communities in the Middle East, but
places that I care for, people that I care for,
you know, involved in every aspect or in every position
on this pinwheel. And I think so many people feel that,
you know, it's it's incredibly painful to watch anti Semitism
on the rise, and the dehumanization of the Jewish people.
(16:24):
It's horrific to watch the dehumanization and the suffering and
the constant bombardment of the Palestinian people. And something that
particularly shatters me for both of these groups of people
is that I feel like we're seeing this one hundred
year cycle of caste put two groups of humans who've
(16:48):
consistently been harmed in this spin cycle. And I know
I have felt helpless. I know I no matter what
I've said, I've been told I've said it the wrong
way or done the wrong thing, or somehow taken no
sides and both sides and one of the wrong sides,
but all of the sides. It is it's paralyzing to
(17:13):
try to uplift voices, try to apply pressure where we
can continue calling representatives, continue calling for healing for so
many people, everyone I know is like, I just don't
know what to do anymore. And you're one of the
only people I think any of us who is lucky
enough to know you knows to call when we feel
(17:34):
like we don't know what to do. So understanding how
things can change and also understanding places you've changed again,
doing the peace building post Rowandan genocide feels incredibly important. Now,
how do you look at an active conflict like this
(17:56):
and begin to imagine how peace building begins when it's
still continuing? You know, how do you know when to go?
How long do you wait? How do you know who
to call? Are there things you do to stand up
for human life in a moment like this that maybe
you could share with those of us that feels really stuck.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, I think first it's really important, and thank you
for opening this and to give yourself and those who
are feeling like you are a little bit of grace.
You know, I've been working at this for decades, and
in this particular conflict Israeli Passiate conflict stretching back decades
in addition to the war going on right now and
(18:37):
the devastation and Gaza in particular, and yet, honestly, Sophia,
since October seventh, I don't think I've had a really
meaningful and constructive conversation about this across dividing lines that
was anything less than an hour at least. And this
is not the era of our long conversations, and in fact,
(18:59):
the most useful conversation sin have been the ones that
had happened multiple times, over multiple hours, over weeks, and
even because of how directly or vicariously traumatized people are,
whether they're on the ground there or they are doom
scrolling unable to sleep because of the horror of what
they're seeing on their phones every night. So in a
(19:21):
world where you know, and I had a number of
people who said to me, I feel like I haven't
said enough, or I've said too much, or you know,
I'm not dissuading people from taking really staunch stances. And
I hope when people take stances, they take stances that
are principled that they apply equally to all people. If
they're opposed to the killing of innocent civilians, as I
think we all are, I hope they are posting all
(19:42):
contexts and in all sense that we value all lies equally,
and yet at the same time, you know, for us
to answer your question about how we go about this,
this happens to be a conflict in which we have
a long standing presence on the ground with a uniquely
registered both with the Palsanine Authority and Ramala as well
(20:04):
as with the Israeli government. And our team is equal
parts Palisine and Israeli, and in fact we but just
before this war started, we've made the decision to recruit
new more senior leaders, both Israeli and Palisini, and we
just announced yesterday we recruited the Palestinian director about a
month ago, the Israeli director, she read just yesterday to
very very powerful, wonderful women leaders, not surprisingly. And so
(20:30):
for me, I am really quite privileged that if somebody
like you calls me, I'm just just sharing my opinion
with you. I'm listening to what our team on the
ground feels needs to happen, which sugar shouldn't be said,
And that's really much more important to me than anything
else to support that kind of multi partial team on
(20:53):
the ground, because that's where real peace is going to
be built over time. That doesn't mean that there's not
a role for people to play here. People can support
the work of organizations their cars. We hope that they do.
They can raise their voice, as you said you have
with congressmen and senators pushing for a serious The main
thing that's been lacking for the last twenty years in
(21:13):
that conflict is a legitimate political process. And by legitimate
and I mean one that actually includes Israelis and Palestinians
in it, you know, and people.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, because people are not their governments, as you said, yeah, earlier.
And it's so important to remember that we like as people,
we have the capability and often I believe, the desire
to live and live peacefully together. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
And I think I don't want to skip past on
the college campuses, because that's where you started, and I
think it's important to I think these young people should
be celebrated for voicing their principles, for taking a lot
of risk, taking a lot of heat. I think we
need to recognize that the way that oftentimes this is
covered in the media, and many protests movements are covered
(22:05):
this way where only the most extreme voices are amplified.
Those extreme voices exist and absolutely need to be confronted.
And yet from you know, you you talk to organizers,
including Jewish student organizers in these protests, there's a lot
going on there that doesn't fit into the neat buckets
of the extreme kind of but you know, picture that's painted.
(22:31):
I've talked to many Jewish friends, older Jewish friends and
supporters who are struggling because their children are saying things
that they find really objectionable. Their children are questioning the
legitimacy of the State of Israel to begin with, and
they're saying, I have grandparents who died in the Holocaust,
like I cannot. I can't even have this conversation with
my teenager. You have that conversation going on, you have
(22:53):
the conversation going on among people who are really desperate
to end the bombing and gaza saying, I don't understand
how this can be allowed to go on day in
and day out, and day in and day out like that.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I mean, it's so horrific, And.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So I think, book I, all wars do end. There
is nothing as complicated as this conflict is. There is
nothing so complicated about this, honestly, that makes it impervious
to finally a resolution and to a lasting peace. But
when that piece happens, when it comes, it's going to
(23:27):
be people on the ground, Israelis and Palestinians. It was
likely going to be people who might make others here
in the States really uncomfortable, you know, people who have constituency,
and right now the people who have a lot of constituency,
both in Israel and Palestine are angry and hurt. Yeah,
you know, but it's people agreeing to things that you
(23:49):
might be shocked that they'd agree to. And the reason
is because they're the ones who are living the consequences
of this and as strongly as those of us outside
might feel about it, and this conflict resonates more than
any other all over the world, and so a lot
of people for strongly about it. It is really the
support for local peace building and mobilizing international inducements both
pressure and incentives to support that kind of peace building.
(24:14):
And the hard fact is that sometimes again it's that
breakdown to break through things like sometimes the only thing
that shakes us out of our stupor you know, these
last twenty years of thinking this conflict, maybe this conflict
would just sort of go away. I think I mentioned
when I met you last time, that I talked to
(24:34):
a former Israeli foreign minister the last time I was
there who said to me, look, this conflict hasn't been
an issue in the last five national elections here, and
then the Foreign ministry lead into me said, let me explain.
It's not that the candidates who raised it lost. It'said
it wasn't even an issue. And we've allowed ourselves to
believe that this conflict would just go away or that
(24:55):
was somehow contained, and so for then to just be
thrown up in the most traumatic way for Israelis, they're
very much back on their heels. And on the Palestinian side,
you know, we've seen just a a shock and a
dismay and a depression over the lack of concerted international
(25:15):
pressure to have international rights standards, you know, enforced. So
that's that's where we are. You're you and I recording
this at a time where there's news that there there
might be progress towards the cease fire, god willing, you know,
and the errors that there will have been there will
(25:37):
eventually be. And all I would ask people who care
about this conflict to consider, is that again, when peace
comes it it it needs to come with people on
the ground supporting and mobilizing for it. And I hope
you will consider supporting them in it. And if you can't,
(25:58):
if the only thing you can do is see the
pain on one side and advocate for that one side,
you're probably not helping us get somewhere that's going to
be better for all because there's not going to be
a one side wins this solution.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Well, and that's that's a zero sum game, and that's
just not what humanity's meant for. You know, the reality
is that people are suffering. It's absolutely devastating, and to
see harm done in this way is I mean, it's
it's unconscionable. And I really hope you know, I appreciate
(26:32):
that you are able to speak about such emotional things
with pragmatism, because it is a requirement for solutions and
to explain that you know, this will happen, this will resolve,
there are options. I think what's hard, as you know,
(26:54):
an emotional soul sitting across from you today, is that
my brain immediately says, yeah, but was this necessary? Why
did all these people have to die in vain? Why
are people so awful to each other? How could this
be allowed? How could a government be allowed to do this?
How like the questions fall out and what I've had
to learn, and in studying the kind of work that
(27:16):
you all do at search for Common Ground, I've really
had to learn that that that is my own trauma,
that is my own pain, that is my own reaction
to the horror that I'm seeing, and that's what makes
me human. But that doesn't necessarily always have a place
in a conversation or on the internet, you know. And
I think that your advice a to give us, for
(27:39):
all of us, to give ourselves grace, because clearly, if
all the world leaders don't have the answer, how are
we supposed to and be? I think it's really important
for me and probably important for our friends at home,
to remind myself when you talk about how solutions have
to come locally, you know, it will be Palestinians and
Israelis on the ground who piece build, who bridge build.
(28:02):
That what we should really be doing, if we care
about the conflict, is raising their voices up, giving them
our platforms. We don't always need to add our two
cents to the cacophony. That's already too noisy.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah. Look, and let me be really clear, I am
not advocating against that humanity that you just shared. I
think it's beautiful. I think it's necessary. I think one
of the reasons that I believe so much in local
sort of multi partial teams is because that collective humanity
from across the dividing lines, from community members who bring
all of the passion because they're living it, their families
(28:37):
are the ones that are under threat. You know, they've
been through this. That collective humanity is indominable, you know,
once it's really supported and mobilized. And I don't want
to be pollyannish about this. Where we are right now
with this war still ongoing, there's not a lot of
appetite for bridge building whatever. There's just the understanding that
(28:58):
in every war and every conflict out history, there's a
way that it's come to an end, and it has
been you know, anything really sustainable piece without the people
on the ground making it happen across the dividing line.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Right. We'll be back in just a minute after a
few words from our favorite sponsors. When you zoom out
and you think about the work you're doing, whether it
be on the conflict we're all watching happen halfway around
the world, or you know, the kind of tension that's building,
as you said in our backsliding democracy here at home,
(29:34):
I mean, which resulted in you know, wild violence and
all of the things. How how do you mobilize at
common ground? Who begins? How do the teams work? How
can we support you? You know where? Tell us about
the hopeful part and how we can get involved.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Well, look, you know the first group of Israeli in
Palestinians that we've been working with for years that wanted
to reconnect after October seventh and after the war began.
We're an extraordinarily powerful group of women leaders both in
Israel and Palestine. This is oftentimes the case, and so
that gave me a lot of hope, and we have
(30:17):
been building out those networks, both Palestini and Israeli. And
one of the things that we see in many of
the violent conflicts around the world is that when women
I mean it's obvious, but when women are part of
the decision making and part of the processes, you are
more likely to get a peace agreement, and you're more
likely to get a peace agreement that lasts. It's just
all the research shows it. So we're seeing that in
(30:39):
Israel and Palestine, and it's exciting. I don't want to
pretend it's going to make a difference tomorrow given what's happening,
but it is building extraordinary momentum in Pennsylvania. After the
assassination attempt, we have team in Pennsylvania. They mobilize the
network of faith leaders, business leaders, and veterans which we've
been building with local partners across partisan lines for months
(31:01):
out of an explicit concern that there be political violence.
And we were you know, the night that had happened.
It happened on a Saturday. The things that were shared
by that team then made their way into sermons in
churches in much of Pennsylvania the next day. The mobile.
There's a poll worker in Pennsylvania, volunteer poll worker who
on our own spent forty hours mobilizing to try to
(31:23):
ensure that she could get bipartisan you know, volunteers at
the polls. You know, come elections. But these stories aren't
being told. But every terrible but first they're always there,
and then every terrible thing that happened happens, more of
them come out of the woodwork, and what we need
do was welcome them and recognize. And so the last
(31:43):
thing that I would share is I'd really encourage your
followers definitely support the work of Search for Common Ground.
You know, monthly contributions really helped support that kind of
the women's leadership in Israel and palacetign, the grassroots leadership
and statewide leadership here in the state. Try to make
a difference in your own community. There's a pieces possible
(32:05):
pledge that we have on our website at Search for
Common Ground. There's a shop, a fun way you can
support the organization, the Love Anyway Shop. If you go
to Love Anyway dot com and you want to do
your shopping for friends, what you'll see there, much of
it has been made by people in conflict settings, and
the proceeds go to people who are are making that difference.
(32:25):
And if you if you can bring yourself to do it,
see if you can reach out across the dividing lines yourself.
It doesn't mean that you have to agree with somebody's positions.
It just means that you're willing to reach out with
genuine curiosity and care respect for them as a person.
Even if you disagree with their point of view and
(32:46):
try to initiate some of those some of those conversations.
So there are a number of things that people can do.
There's more information for a ways people can connect at
search for common ground dot org.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Search forcommon ground dot org is the r L I.
I know we're coming up on time for you. Thank
you for carving some out for us here. I just
want to ask you before you go, as you look
at the year ahead, what feels like your work in progress?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Well, we are working on you know. I had the
privilege of having conversations with some of my real heroic leaders,
former President of Obama and former Prime Minister at our
Durn just into our Durn of New Zealand, you know
who became prime minister at the age of thirty seven.
And I was sort of struck recently the degree to
which they spoke, you know, reflectively about wishing that they
(33:34):
could have done more even to unite their respective countries.
And this, combined with the increasing polarization, has made us
sort of think more and more that I think for
the time being, maybe the era of the unifying individual
leaders is gone. It's just very fun. It's just so
easy to divide people. It's so easy with our platforms
and social media tools to turn people against each other.
(33:55):
And so what we really believe in is collective leadership.
And one of things that's really hard to undercut is
and you have people coming together across partisan lines, across
Israeli Palestinian lines, or across Republican Democrat lines, across Hu
Tuo tootsi lines. And that's the kind of leadership that
can be really rock solid and can really take us
forward in an era of polarization. And so we are
looking at developing a sort of leadership training programs, even
(34:21):
sort of like an academy one day's what I'd like
to have to support people in developing that kind of
capacity for collective leadership. And if we get there in
twenty twenty five, from twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five,
I think we can really be seating a lot of
that kind of powerful, multi partial, peace building leadership here
in the States and around the world.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Well, well what a goal. I think I speak for
everyone listening when I say, count me and us in,
please teach us all of the things, and thank you
so much for coming
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Today, Sophia, Thank you, Thank care
Host
Sophia Bush
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