February 20, 2025 • 60 mins
Since she was a little kid she's given off big baller energy, by the age of ten she was in business running a successful spiked lemonade stand (true story!), and not much has changed since. Chelsea Handler is still hustling, hilarious, and unapologetically herself!
Fresh off her success hosting the Critics Choice Awards, the comedian and best-selling author joins Sophia to talk about prepping for a milestone birthday — turning the big 5-0 — and her gift to us: a brand new book that will bring laughter into our lives when we need it most! Chelsea also reflects on choosing to end her relationship with fellow comedian Jo Koy while love was still present, why she thinks women need retraining, and the keys to her confidence, all while keeping the jokes coming throughout!
Chelsea's book, 'I'll Have What She's Having' hits bookshelves on her birthday, February 25, 2025.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Hello friends,
I am so amped about today's guest. She is one
of my favorite comedians, authors, philosophers on life, and she
(00:26):
happens to be here today to talk about her seventh book,
I'll Have What She's Having. Today's guest is Chelsea Hammler.
Chelsea has always been surprisingly vulnerable and incredibly outrageous, and
in this book she is capturing the antic, filled, exhilarating
and joyful life that she's led and that she's built.
(00:49):
It's definitely a life that makes me think, Yeah, I'll
have what she's having. From talking about family, loss, grief, relationships,
and child good she is really sharing how she's discovered
across this landscape, how to spend time with herself, how
to meditate, how to be open to love, and how
(01:11):
to end a relationship with dignity. She is a sister
to so many of us and to so many of
the women who rely on her, and I can't wait
to talk about the new book, turning fifty and her
palpable sense of joy. Hi guys, Hi, Kittie the duty.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I'm just up here icing my shoulder.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
What happened?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
A mess? I'm just a mess.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Did you have a ski fall? What's going on?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh No, I'm too good of a skier for something
like that.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Oh, I had an infection in my shoulder and I
had it to get surgery line in my arm where
I get an infusion of antibiotics every twenty four hours
for four weeks. No, girl, Yeah, it's serious business over here,
serious disease, infectious business.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Well are they also giving you stem cells? Why does
your skin look like this? What's going on? You look gorgeous.
I mean you always look gorgeous, but like you're extra glowy.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Probably because I've spent about two hours a day in
a hyperbaric chain.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay, so that's what I need to start doing chamber glow.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Girl.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Great, it's almost your birthday.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I know I'm gonna be the big one.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I'm gonna I can't wait. I want to do Coast
to coast. I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh my god, let's go.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I'm ready. We're gonna bring your your raging, dancing, cheering section.
I can't wait.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I know I'm gonna celebrate this year. I'm just gonna
celebrate all year long. I mean, especially with the backup
we're living in you know, we've just got to look up. Okay,
look up, look for the bright the rainbows in the sky.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
You have to. And you know, I started to realize
it's like I get so much creativity and joy and
thoughtfulness from our community, from friends, from cooking for people,
from gathering people. And I realized recently I was like, oh,
I'm going to have to start not just being a
sort of signal booster of the news like online. I
(03:26):
think I actually have to start. I don't even know
how to do this. I'm like, I'm not an influencer.
I think I need to bring like just some purely joyful,
dumb shit to Instagram just to help counterbalance the fire
hose of nightmarishness that we're all on the receiving end of.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It's pretty astounding what we're meant to, you know, deal
with and the amount of information coming at us. But yeah,
we got to focus on doubling down on love and
being there for the people that really need us the most,
and even for people who don't you know, people you
know and people you don't know, but just ye show
(04:03):
up in a different way, extra extra kind, extra love.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, it's like we can rage against the machine and
then we need to be very teddy bearish with each other.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, absolutely, you know about teddy bear.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
To me just a little. I want to bring some
people some joy and laughter today. And you know, because
you've been on the pod before, I love to talk
to people about you know, do you see versions of
who you are in your childhood self? You've answered that
question for me already, So what I would like is
for you to take us back to a childhood story.
(04:40):
But it was one I've had the good fortune of
seeing you tall a few times on stage, and it
is a highlight in the book for me as a
reader anyway, as well, when you talk about how you
realized that you wanted to make money, so lemonade stand
seemed obvious, and then you had a really, i would
revolutionarily entrepreneurial idea for a ten year old. Can you
(05:04):
tell the folks at home what you realized?
Speaker 3 (05:07):
But yeah, I started a lemonade stand when I realized
my parents had no financial plan for themselves, never mind me.
And I was already kind of disgruntled when I was born,
seeing that there were so many other children in my family.
There were five other brothers and sisters, and I'm like
this is expensive, Like how can we even afford this?
And then I was like, oh my god, this is
my family.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I can't believe I'm stuck with these people. So as
early as I could, I started.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I was just trying constantly thinking of like schemes and
ways to make money or how I could employ myself
at and you know, as an underage entrepreneur. So I
lemonade stand like many people do you know lemonade business.
Obviously that's like, you know, low hanging fruit. And then
I just was like, this isn't a lot of money,
you know, Like I think we made like thirteen or
fourteen dollars in one day. And then I was like,
(05:52):
you know what we should do is just amp this up.
There's an opportunity for a bigger profit of margin if
we made it a hard lemonade stand. Then I got
some gin, whiskey and tequila obviously from my parents' house,
and I listed another ten year old who lived on
ours who was renting in the neighborhood that we were in,
and I think his name was Nelson, Yeah, and I called,
(06:14):
I knocked on doors.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I'd be like, Hi, my name is Chelsea Handler. I'm
an entrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I'm looking for another, you know, ten year old, eight
to ten year old to.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Be in business with me.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I'd like to partner with someone, and brought Nelson out.
I started grooming Nelson right away. I brought him to
our lemonade stand. I'm like, do you know how to
make like a whiskey soda? Like you need to figure
this out because we're going to have lots of customers.
And we made a killing. We made so much money
because the parents started drinking. I said, you can't serve
anyone alcohol that's under ten. You know, obviously I have
some standards. But we made a killing. And I remember
(06:47):
after the first week, like word had spread like wildfire,
like everyone was coming to our lemonade stand on Martha's Vineyard.
And obviously now I know it's because we were the
only hard lemonade stand and they and we made like
three hundred and fifty nine dollars I think was the
number that we made in our first week.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Nine dollars.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
And then I gave Nelson his commission, which was three
dollars and fifty nine cents, and he was floored.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
He was like thank you.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
He's like wow, I feel like I'm like, you have Nelson,
Stick with me, Stick with me, and I'll show you
the way.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Incredible, incredible. I would imagine that half the people who
rolled up were really excited to get sassed by a
ten year old at the same time they were getting
a cocktail.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I mean, I've had a lot of you know, piston
vinegar that I was spewing from a very young age.
Even as a very young child, even when I was
two and three years old, I felt like a woman,
like I felt like a woman like I wanted to be.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I wanted a briefcase, I wanted a suit, I wanted.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Heels, and I wanted wanted a business, like I just
wanted to own a business. And I remember being so
frustrated being a child. I just wanted to grow up,
Like I just I hated the idea of being so
dependent and on my parents and being so tired to them,
and and I.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Just I just could not wait. I knew that I
knew better, you know what I mean, like worse. You know,
if I was we're the one in charge of finances,
we would be fine. So like I just wanted to
start that as quickly as possible.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I love it. I feel like our little kid selves
would have been friends. I did the same thing, like
by the time I was eight, I looked at my
parents and I was like, I love you both. You're
fucking lunatics. I'm I got to make other plans, Like
I just I don't know. I think there's something about
some little girls that come into the world like grown ups,
(08:42):
and I'm glad that so many of us have found
each other.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, that's for sure. I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And I think that there are so many like minded
so many more like minded people, you know. That's what
LA and New York and places like where we live are,
you know, a melting pot of so many different types
of people.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
But yeah, I take a lot of pride, and.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
It makes me very happy, I guess, less prideful, more
happy to be connecting with like like, for instance, so
many other women who don't want to be mothers or
don't want to be who really don't even see that
as like part of their future.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It's like so freshing to hear so many people talking
about that, you know, I love that.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
It's like when you speak up about something and all
of a sudden you start to hear other people that
feel the same way about something. It's quite encouraging, you know,
just to realize the non aloneness of your opinion.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yes, well, and especially because I think for women there's
been this sort of prescriptive this is what your joy
will look like list, And I mean, I know for me,
even it's almost two years ago now, like finally being like,
I don't I got I think I have to say
this out loud, like I did the list and I'm
so unhappy. And then the number of women I knew
(10:05):
from every walk of life that were like, oh me too,
Oh me too, me too. Did you hear so and
so is going through this? You should call her? Let
me put you on a text with my friend who's
also and boom, Like, you have such a huge community,
and sometimes I think the barrier to entry is just
that you haven't said what you need or what you're
(10:26):
afraid of or what you're experiencing out loud. In the
minute you do, it's like all the barriers evaporate.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, it's absolutely there's always another person or another group
of people that are going through whatever you're going through.
And that's something that women can't hear enough because people
feel so alone, you know, when they feel like, oh,
they're not worthy, or they're not doing this right, or
it's like and we all feel that way, even the
most confident people in the world feel that way. So
it's nice to mind each other that there isn't you know,
(10:59):
there's always a community for anything, even if stuck on toes,
there's a community.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
For that too.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Listen, we don't kink shame here.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
No, no kink shaming.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Speaking of it's the most perfect segue for the title
of your book, because as soon as I saw you
were going to call it, I'll have what she's having,
I thought, yes, she is, And it's going to come
out on your fiftieth birthday. And it really feels like
a love letter to yourself and to so many women.
I mean, I feel it as a member of your community.
(11:34):
I'm sure so many readers who don't know you personally
but have followed you for so long will feel that.
Is it also a little bit of like a birthday
present to yourself this one.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Well, it's becoming that way, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I didn't on it publishing it on my birthday, but
when we were going over dates and my birthday was
one of those dates, I thought, Okay, I could have
like two minds about this. I could be like, no,
I'm not going to let I'm not going to work
on my birthday, or I'm not gonna let my birthday
be overshadowed by because it's such a big birthday, like
be overshadowed by work. And then I was like, no,
but this is so me. Work and my life are
(12:07):
always kind of intertwined. I'm they're always mixed. It's not
like I'm a private person or I'm you know, precious
about my personal life. I've never been that way. I'm
always kind of feeding it up. So it is kind
of turned into a birthday present for myself because it's
my seventh book. I I am really in the mode
(12:30):
of really injecting optimism into other women and confidence. Who
are always asking me about my confidence, and it's like,
I don't know where my confidence comes from.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
All I know is that it can be infectious.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
And like, when I'm confident people, I feel even more confident.
And when I'm around people who are not confident, I
want to inject them with like this. I want the
substance for confidence for girls, you know, I want.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Everyone to know like you can.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
It's kind of a practice and to actually, really it's
just so much more optimistic to be confident and not
to be arrogant.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
That's a separate thing, but confidence is really just.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Knowing who you are and not being apologetic for it,
and knowing that you're a good person. I think so
many times in our lives we question whether or not
we're good people just because we're having negative thoughts about
a situation or about another person or seditive or you know,
(13:29):
and I feel like that kind of I know, for me,
I'm always like, oh God, am I a bad person
for thinking that. It's like, no, you're not a bad
You're only a bad person if you act on those feelings.
Of course, we're all have emotions that run across the
human spectrum, jealousy, of envy, of disdain and love and
all of everything that comes in between. But it's good
(13:51):
to embrace those feelings, understand them, acknowledge them, and then
like you know, move forward because and I think the
thing that's lacking, so you know, the most in our
world is confidence. Yeah, and I think as we've just
been targeted to like almost have have that taken from us.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, Well, in this weird way, we've conflated confidence and conceit.
And it's like, yeah, don't be a conceited asshole, But
you deserve to be confident. You deserve to be proud
of yourself. Do you need to walk through the world
with pridefulness being used as like a as a club
to hit other people with. No, but you deserve to
(14:34):
be proud of yourself. And I think I think this
idea of of how, oh we have to renounce anything
that you know could possibly be seen as egotistical, it
really just feels like a really insidious way to strip
women of their confidence, of their willingness to celebrate themselves,
to keep them you know, small or afraid. And it's like,
(14:57):
we don't need to be wasting any more time doing
any of that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, no, I agree, like that, that's out the window.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Okay, we need to be building blocks and building back
better is what we need.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, yes, building bitches back better.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Building bitches back better. I like that.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
And now for our sponsors, I love that you've been
so frank and you said you're not precious about your
personal life, but you know, it's a weird thing to
be a person in the public eye and to have
when you try to keep things private for yourself. They
(15:34):
kind of can often get eaten up when you share things.
People are like, no one was asking. It's like, no
matter what you do, somebody's going to tell you do
it wrong, which might just be again being women. But
you seem to have found this really cool flow in
your life where you're really willing to tell it like
(15:54):
it is. You're willing to kind of pull the lid
off the lessons, you know, admit the hard stuff, talk
about what's great, and you really are doing it, as
you said a few minutes ago, with this incredible I
don't even want to call it energy. It's like the
whole thing is really fueled on this positivity that you found,
(16:17):
and I'm inspired by that point blank period. And then
there's the other layer of you're also doing this entering
fifty when so many women are essentially, you know, whisper
warned that they're going to become irrelevant, and it's like
you're hotter, funner, more relevant than ever. I Do you
(16:39):
love the way this whole phase feels because you're booking
every tradition in the book, or does it also just
feel sort of silly that people ask you questions like
this in the first place, because what the fuck are
these traditions and where did they come from.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I mean, I will say that I feel very and
I talk about this in the book. I feel very
happy that I had enough belief in myself that I
did not listen to other people steering me in the
wrong direction.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, many times in my life where I got advice or.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Was told not to do something. I don't do that,
don't do this, don't do that. And I'm not very
good at, you know, taking direction and listening to other people,
especially when they're men obviously telling me.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
What to do. It's like, you're not in a position
to tell me what to do.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
And it's kind of been my vibe the whole way,
you know, throughout my life. When I started my career,
it wasn't like, oh, it wasn't the conversations we're having
now and understand, you know, the impact of white male
supremacy that it has on you know, all of us,
and the kind of trickle down effect and how well
(17:52):
I was kind of blinded.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I had blinders on.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I was just like, I'm going after what I want.
It doesn't matter if I'm a man, woman, child, whatever,
I'm doing this and I was just so like intent
and focused on what I was doing and having a
good time and having like this party of a TV show.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And I wanted to have all my friends on and
that's what I did.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
And I didn't really notice, you know a lot of
the things that we're talking about now that are so
front and center right till they started happening, that until
the conversation started flowing. Like I remember, my friends would
be like, you know, once you hit forty, you're never
going to work again. And this was like twenty years ago.
I'm like, that's a terrible attitude, and they're like, well,
it's not an attitude, it's a reality. I'm like, it
(18:34):
doesn't have to be your reality. That's just that can
be your reality, or you can just decide you're not
going to you know, that's not going to be the
way that you're going to operate. So I always kind
of had that kind of attitude. But that is pretty
naive because just because something doesn't happen to you or
impact you directly, you have to be conscientious and conscious
(18:55):
of the fact that it is happening to millions of
women in the world all the time, every single day,
in all mediums of business and entertainment and whatever you
do in the world, it's male dominated.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Everything is except for women's soccer, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
So I think, like I think that I'm very I'm
grateful that I didn't allow myself to be pushed around
and that I didn't allow myself Like even when I
bought my house in my Orca, I remember, and I
put this in the book because like my business manager
was a guy.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
My manager was a guy.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
There were like three other men in my life who
were like, that's a terrible business decision, that's way too
much money.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Don't do that.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
The Spanish economy is terrible. And I remember hearing their
advice one after another after another, and after the sixth one,
I'm like, I've never been more convinced to do something
than I am.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
To buy the class in Spain.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Like your negative attitudes have convinced me that I definitely
must do it. And once again it turned into a huge, huge,
positive life decision. Book have given so many people great times,
great vacations. I've provided so many people with like vacations
of a lifetime at that house.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I've written two books in that house.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
The Spanish economy went through the roof the year after
I bought it, So I just I just always go
back to that when I'm like, I'm not an indecisive person,
but ever I am on the fence about something I
know now, think like, sit with yourself, be quiet and understand, like,
what is the answer right now?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Really? What is the truth?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
What is because only only each of us know what
is right for each of us.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Nobody else who can give you that information.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
So the closer you get to a dialogue with yourself
and an understanding and the knowing that all women are
talking about, the better, like the better your life is
going to be.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, I like that, sit with yourself, be quiet and
really listen, because we don't. That's not a lot of
advice that we get. It's always, well, what will this
mean for your career and how do you think it'll
impact that, and what's the bottom line going to be?
And you know, there's always a question about how you're
supposed to couch your decision and this moment to sit
(21:19):
and not gatekeep that the way to really figure it
out is to figure out what you want what your
answer is not necessarily what's popular, not what.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Not.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Whatever they've put on the list that's supposed to make
you happy when you check all the boxes, you like,
listen to yourself, and you talk about it in the
book in a way that really hit home for me
because I had to ask myself a series of the
same questions when you talk about the relationship that you
(21:55):
had with Joe Koy and how you did it differently
in terms even of how the public was let in.
And again there's that like do you let people in
so they know what it is? Or do you keep
them out and then they just gossip about what it is?
I don't fucking know, but it was a difference for you.
(22:15):
And I've been so touched by how beautifully and gently
you've talked about how it was wonderful and successful even
though it wasn't the foreverything everyone thinks it's supposed to be.
And you talked about how you had to listen to
yourself and know, oh, what this person wants is not
(22:36):
compatible with what I want, and so I have to
choose me because the other option is you shrink yourself,
or you compartmentalize yourself, or you abandon yourself. Right, Like,
that's the energy that I've gotten from the kindness with
which you speak about that and the frankness that you
(22:57):
managed to speak with at the same time.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Time, Yes, I think that you know, if you're not
like growing and changing, right, what are we doing and
we're just becoming this we're the same. Like I don't
want to go through the same relationship I was in
ten years ago. I want everything to be like one
and done. Like I don't need to learn a lesson twice.
I would prefer to learning and be done, make the
first the last time.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And I don't think about relationships like that.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
But I am so much more mature than I was
when I was in my twenties or when I was
in my thirties, and I'm not I don't care like
to me a romantic partner, a lover. All of those
things are wonderful things to have in your life. They're wonderful.
They should be additions, not subtractions to your life. And
(23:48):
I can't imagine myself at this stage in my life
ever being upset at an ending like just too. I've
been through too many things to not know that it's okay,
k for things to end. It doesn't mean that anything failed.
It means that you're healthy enough to have your own back,
and that is kind of the way that I go
(24:11):
about things now, Like that was a you know, I
didn't want to break up with Joe Cooy.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I was in love with him. When I broke up
with him, we were in love, but it.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Was very clear to me he had a very different
idea of what that meant than from what I than
what I meant. And I'm everyone knows how I feel
about everything, So this cause is and there shouldn't have
been to him either because I am an open book.
I'm not going when I make decisions. A lot of
the times I think about if this is something that
(24:38):
I would put up with for my nieces or my
you know, or the women in my life, like is
this something stay with as a standard to whether or
not I should be dealing with it, And at that
point in our relationship, it just became clear we were
not on the same page. He expected a lot more
from me than I was willing to give in any
relationship and choose myself, and I chose myself knowing, Okay,
(25:03):
bring this, bring it on, Bring on the fucking pain,
because this is gonna be so painful. You're leaving one
you love, and but also knowing I'm gonna be okay.
Like it's you know, we go through so many breakups
in our lives, wondering if we are or separations or
breakups even with friends, wondering if we're gonna survive, if
we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
The answer is yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
And to know that before you make the decision and
while you're making the decision is such a strength.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
That why do we keep ending up where we started?
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Like there's so many times where a breakup I'm like, no, no,
You're holding on.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
So tightly, like I don't want I don't want this
to end.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
It's like I didn't want that to end, but I
knew it had to, so I had.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
To end it.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
And and but with also with a ton of gratitude
about the experience in it of itself, a ton of
gratitude about him opening my heart to even be in
a position to be spreading and instagram and talking about
how much we love each other, like.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I love doing that. I thought that was fun. I'm like,
I can't believe I haven't been doing this my whole life. No,
and people for us, you know, people would.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Run up to us on the streets of New York
or in la, oh my god, if you found love,
anyone can find love.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I'm like, yeah, let's go everyone, surely. And so it
was very warm.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Like like warm hearted the response from the public. And
I had never experienced that kind of like support, and
I was like.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
This is fun.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
So it brought out all these wonderful things that I
didn't even know about, and I, instead of being upset
or mad at him for not understanding me and not
getting it, I just kept reminding myself of all of
the good things that came from that relationship, you know,
in a big way.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
He really reminded me of who I am and who.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
I've always been, and I had kind of lost track
of that. I kind of gotten off of, you know,
my m O in life, which is just to like
just to be a hustler and to be a lover
and to like really just have this big, loud, brave life.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
That's all I wanted.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
When I think back to me as a child, I
was just like, I just can't wait to get going,
like to get it going. And now here I am
and I'm fifty and it's going, and I've I got
it going, and I have five years or thirty years
now in this industry.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I would say twenty five very successful years in this.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Industry where the scientific like the data shows me, Okay,
you're capable, you're smart, you know how to get the
life you want. Now you have it, and now what
are you going to do with the next twenty thirty years? Yes,
I don't want to say fifty years, because of course
I don't want to live to one hundred. But I
(27:47):
just read the saying that if you can get if
you live through the next ten to fifteen years, you
there will be enough like scientific innovation to get you
to live to like one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And I'm like, who the fuck wants to live to
a I don't want that. No, I can't afford that.
Nobody can.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Nobody can. I just want to live to like a
nice old age that feels happy for me, but be healthy.
Like I don't need to live to one hundred and twenty.
But if you told me I could get to eighty
six healthy and never have to deal with cancer, I'd
be like, whatever that is, signed me up for that.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, that's right. No cancer would be a nice bonus.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
And now a word from our sponsors that I really
enjoy and I think you will too. I love the
whole perspective that you just shared because I remember years
ago I got to write this article talking about, you know,
(28:46):
the pressure women are under defined love, and to me,
it's always bothered me that people treat a break up
like it's some kind of a failure. Like you said,
like an ending is a bad thing because even if
you are one of the people who wants the you know,
you want the paper list, you want the who's my person,
who's my happily ever after? Okay, well, every relationship theoretically
(29:09):
before that person has ended. So you're going to tell
me most of your life if it's been endings until
you know this, this positive thing you've asked for is
a failure. Like no lessons. It's like books that you've
read and lessons that you've learned. You know, I think
every like you were saying earlier, every time you share
(29:32):
a piece of your life with a person, a romantic relationship,
a friend, if you evolve out of that, that just
means you're growing. And there's no way you're going to
grow on the same path with everybody. But what a
gift to be in any kind of relationship for any
length of time. That has encouraged your growth.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Absolutely, and also growing is is saying goodbye sometimes is
letting you go, like if not everybody is meant to
be in your life ever, like we have to bringing
on to each other. Like some people are just supporting characters.
Some people some people you're a part of their story.
You know, it's not for you, it's about them maybe, yeah,
(30:12):
and not to be so like just to accept the
reality of the situation. Accept something if it's not if
it's not working, it's okay, then it's time to move on.
There's what three hundred million people in this country alone.
I mean, we're there are other people out there to
serve your needs and your purposes. And I'm not just
talking about romantic I'm talking about and family, And it's
(30:35):
okay to take breaks, and it's okay to like to
look at people as like a temporary thing, like not
every there's not we I don't know why we attach
such permanence to things, because nothing is permanent, So I
don't know that idea in the first place.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
And I think sometimes the pressure of the permanence that
we ascribe to something can actually trap us there. Like
I know that that is true for me in the
last couple of years of my life. I you know,
I've said this. I did everything I was supposed to do,
and I did everything right, and I checked every box
on the list, and then the train had kind of
(31:14):
left the station. And looking back, because the kindsight's twenty twenty, right,
Like in the moment, you're just dealing with your life
and trying to hear that inner voice. But when I
look back, I can see these moments where, if I'm
really honest, and it breaks my heart a little bit,
I abandoned myself.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I knew what.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I needed, I knew I deserved better. I knew the
answer had to be different. But plans were made and
promises were made, and I thought they had to be kept.
And I thought, if I can just work harder, if
I can just maybe maybe shrink myself a little bit,
if I could be more amenable too, And all I
was doing was continuing to cut myself down. And by
(31:56):
the time I realized I couldn't move without feeling like
I was cracking eggshe they weren't just on the floor,
they were all around me in my life. I was like,
how the fuck did this happen? Like how did I
get here, and and sometimes I think the pressure that
it all puts on us, it gets so loud that
(32:17):
we can't hear that voice. We can't hear yeah, you
know you you can't hear your inner self say you
love this person, but you got to go. And I
think it is so fucking crucial that we talk about it,
and that we start giving not only ourselves permission, but
like you said earlier, by talking about it, other people
(32:39):
feel permission to talk about it too.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Absolutely, and honesty, you know what I mean, to be
really honest with each other as women is also integral
to like to to like being a dutiful women to
other women, Like you know, some of us play things
off like oh it's okay, or they don't you don't
want to share, you know, or you don't want to overshare,
you don't want to burden other people, And so then
(33:03):
you're kind of you're kind of begetting this like lie
because being truthful about your own situation, So how is
that supposed to shed any light on another woman's situation
or another friends? Not even really telling the truth because
you're too ashamed to actually sit down with your thoughts
and go, am I happy? Is like how do I
(33:23):
feel who like you have to get to a place
where disappointing other people is not your problem, And for
some women have the biggest issue with that. We are
so allergic to the idea of anyone being inconvenienced on
our behalf. It would have been calling off your wedding,
even though I'm sure before your wedding you had those feelings.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Some of those feelings you going through with it.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Was because you didn't want to inconvenience all the people
that were going to be there, right, And that's what
we do as women. We are trained to make sure
that our feelings come last. And I need a retraining
program because our feelings should be should come.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
First, absolutely, Because it's the same as the adage. You know,
when the oxygen masks come down, you have to put
yours on first if you're going to help the person
next to you get theirs on.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Absolutely, and by putting myself you know, I talk about
therapy in the book, and I talked about it a
lot in my last book, and we've spoken about it
at length, Like therapy teaches you, it's so I the
irony of therapy is so funny because I went to
therapy with.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
The intention of like getting out of my own ass.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
I'm like, I need to get out of my ass,
Like I'm so far up my own ass, I need
a break. And the very act of going to therapy
is actually talking about yourself ad infinitum for months, years
on end. So the act of getting out of your
own ass requires you to really crawl up inside your
own ass. Yes catch twenty two, because you're like, well,
(34:51):
wait a second, I was trying to get away for myself,
but here I am again. But once you do put
in that work, and once you do actually go to therapy,
which is hard and brave and tough feeling a lot
of the time because nobody wants to go in and unearth.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
All of this stuff. But when you do, what you come.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Out with is just a much less apologetic person, like like, no,
these all of this is not my problem. I'm my
biggest problem. And if I can get myself on straight,
then I'll be able to do so many great things
for so many people in my life. But if I'm
a sured and if I'm not being truthful, then then
I'm like a limp biscuit.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
How can I help any Yes?
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Absolutely, And I think one of the things that I've
learned in that space that's so important, Like you can't
heal it, you can't get past yourself if you don't
really go in and you know, pull all the threads
and see what you're made of. And for me, the
aha moment when I was like how the fuck did
I get here? I was like, I had one rule
(35:54):
for myself. It was I am never going to have
a lifelike X fill in the blank. I'm also learning
like you said in your book, I'm like, there's things
I'll keep to myself because I don't need to hurt
other people. But I had a very clear directive for
myself for twenty plus years. I will just never have
a life like X. And then I woke up and
(36:15):
was like how did I get here? And I went, oh,
I said, I'm never going to be wounded like fill
in the blank. And what I didn't do was actually
go and clean out and suture those wounds. So all
I've been fucking doing is finding the clause that fit
my wounds. I said, I'm not going to do that,
and I wasn't even paying attention to how easily they
(36:37):
just slid into those already open spaces, and I was like, damn,
I made a rule, but I didn't do the deeper
layer of self work and introspection. I didn't go to
the center of the thing that hurt me, So I
got hurt in the same fucking way. Whoa. And that
for me was just so revelatory. And it was almost
(37:00):
like in that moment when it when the whole illusion
of it came crashing down and like you know, the hologram,
if you will was gone, and I was just like
standing in the dirt, and then I realized how many
people around me were also in the dirt, Like holy shit,
not only did I have people to talk to, but
it was like finally the moment where the universe was like,
(37:21):
are you done trying to do that? Would you like
to see what might actually be good for you? And
I was like, oh fuck, the only way, the only
way to the other side of it is to go
back to the beginning and walk through it.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yeah, yeah right.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
And also like that's what you're talking about, you know,
it's like a circular you're having a circular conversation, you're
repeating patterns, you're doing things over there.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, how you got here? When you know so much
more and you know better. So yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I think I heard Maria Shriver say it first the first, make,
the first.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Time, the last time.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I love that, like disciplining children, like when they make
a mistake or do something really you know, unacceptable. She's like,
you make sure that they know that that's not allowed
to happen again. You make the first time the last time.
But I think it's a pla to everything in life.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, I want.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
I want to make sure. I don't want to go
to summer school. I want to go to my ORCA
so I don't get my lessons in. I got it, Okay,
I got that loud and clear. I don't need that
or yes, be open minded. People can reappear blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
But I don't want to learn lessons twice.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
No, absolutely not. And you know what, it even goes down.
I started doing this thing that a friend's mom told me,
like I don't know, maybe two years ago. I was
talking about how I have this tendency to make piles
and I've like learned, you know that women with ADHD
do this, And my friend's mom goes, oh, I can
undo that for you, and I was like I'm like,
I'm forty, what are you going to undo for me?
(38:49):
And she goes every time you pick something up, you
just have to say, I don't want to waste my time.
I don't want to touch this twice and I was like,
say it again. And now it's like if I pick
up the thing, like, well, what I'm not going to
do is put it down somewhere and then have to
fucking pick it up again. That's a waste of my
very valuable time. And it is like, change the way
I live in my own house. So make the first
(39:10):
time the last time and don't touch it twice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right,
you know, from your emotions to your things. It's like
it's so it's so good, and I think it changes
the way you move. And you talk about something else
in the book that I love, which my brain relates
to changing the way you move, because you said that
eventually you ran out of the fuel of anger and
(39:34):
the drive it gave you, like the kind of I
don't know if you want to call it, you know,
the shocking aspect of comedy or the teasing bit of it,
or the or the judgmental commentary, however you want to
define it. But that really struck me that you were like, oh,
I can't, I can't run my motor on that type
(39:56):
of fuel. Forever so healthy. But I also understand that
some artists get really scared when they feel like they've
run out of something, Like I know actors who've gotten
terrified when they get sober because they're like, I'm not
gonna be a good actor anymore. It's like, newsflash, will
be a better actor.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Bad news flash.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
It's like fat people, bat comics who lose weight. They're like,
we're not going to be funny anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
You're like, you're like, no, your brain is the funny thing. Nice, yes,
But I wonder for you, was there a moment in
realizing you'd kind of run out of this initial supply
that you you talk in the book about how you
ran your first show on it and all these things.
Were you ever afraid that you weren't going to be
able to do what you do off of a more
(40:39):
joyful fuel tank or no?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Yeah, I never wanted to be this person that I am, Like,
I would never at that thought in my twenties or forties.
I'm going to go to therapy, I'm going to meditate,
I'm gonna have a gratitude journal. Like all of that
was like fuck off, Like I don't want to be
about you.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Know, I don't want to hear about chakras. I don't
want to hear about it. See magnetism field work.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Like no, you're like law of attraction.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Right, exactly, law of attraction.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
Like that's all sounded so ooh wah wah la dumb, dumb.
I'm from New Jersey, I'm fast, I'm you know, like
I'm not like that. And eventually, you know, you realize,
I by educating yourself that these things that I just mentioned,
all of them are a great, great things to have
in your toolbox as an adult person. And while I'm
(41:30):
no longer fueled by anger, you know, it's a very
confusing time where you go to therapy and you kind
of learn all this stuff about yourself and then you
have to then you have to absorb everything you learn,
and then you have to apply everything you learn.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
So it's like a process.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
And I didn't want to stay in therapy for like,
you know, I went for two years and then I
was like, Okay, there's got to be an end date
to this. I don't want to be somebody who's codependent
with my therapist. I don't want to be every week.
I'll come when there's you know, I have I have
a therapy appointment today this afternoon. But I do therapy
like incrementally now, like when I have an issue to
my therapist for a couple times and then I won't
(42:06):
see her for a couple of months or a year.
You know, I have the baseline to understand how to
handle my own problems. But at the time when I
first delved into therapy in that big giant way, it
was like, you're kind of auditioning different versions of yourself.
You're like, well, if I'm not anymore, I have to
take the good qualities of the old me and implement
the new qualities of me that I know are going
(42:28):
to be less harmful and hurtful to others. I want
to protect other people. I want to protect myself. And
you're just kind of like boggling together this kind of
new persona or personality of your own. And I remember
finding myself like myself auditioning different versions of this personality,
like Okay, I'm going to go to this dinner party
and I'm not going to talk.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
I'm not going to be the center of attention. I'm
just going to be a.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Guest and I'm not, Oh, my opinion is not that important,
Like just sit back, relax and enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
And that felt weird.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
I'm like, this isn't me either, Like just there were
so many times where I'm like, who am I?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Like, I want the best versions of me combined with
all of the things that I've picked up.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
And then eventually it does click and you realize anger
is not my fuel, you know, my fuel is It
doesn't have to be that. Yes, I can get angry
with the best of them, but I don't wake up
angry even with this like shoulder injury that I have,
Like it's such a pain in my ass and it's
such an inconvenience. But I'm also like, every night I
(43:30):
go to bed, I'm like, thank you for my shoulder infection.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Thank you. I'm sure this is teaching me something I
don't knowing.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
I don't know if God is in the sky or
I'm thinking my mother that's dead.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I don't know who I'm thinking.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
But I'm just saying I'm grateful for everything, the good
and the bad.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
And that's my positioning now about everything.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
If something doesn't work out, thank you anyway for the experience.
And it's not empty gratitude. It's like, I understand now
that not everything happens the way that you want it to.
Not to attach yourself to the outcome of things, but
go through it with grace and be graceful, you know,
be graceful about the achievements, about the disappointments, and be
(44:12):
happy and encouraging and understand, like if I don't feel
confident or strong one day, if I'm having these weird,
icky feelings, to know that that's temporary too, and in
those moments that I will find the confident, strong version
of myself probably tomorrow when I wake up and that
it's there and it's in me and it's not going anywhere.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
So by not being.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Run on anger, I am a lot more. I have
just more expansiveness, like I can. I'm more patient, you know,
I'm understanding and you know, if I need to get angry, yeah,
no problem, but yeah, I mean source of fuel.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors. Did
you know, because I always think it's really easy to
see it all in hindsight, did you know at the
(45:16):
time were you able to talk about it with that
kind of language, like, Oh, I'm trying on new versions
of myself, like I'm leaning into my listener, I'm going
to lean into my graceful, gentle soul human. Were you
talking about that in that really active therapy process or
(45:36):
did it kind of come to you later as you
felt like you like readjusted in my brain. It's almost
like you readjusted the spine of yourself, you know, you
clicked everything back into place, Like.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Yeah, No, it was definitely after Like it was it's like,
you know, how you go to school during the school
year and then you have the summer, and the summer
is meant for children to absorb what they've learned during
the school year. Right, how therapy was for me, Like
I got all this information, I understood it, It made sense,
it was logical and linear here then I was like, okay, now,
(46:09):
now what do I just change my personality?
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Or am I still allowed to be parts of me?
Speaker 3 (46:14):
And you know, and the answer is, you don't change
your personality. You just change the way that you are
in the world. You know your person there and it's
your behavior that matters. So a lot of like confused
and it was definitely after therapy, it was like socializing,
Like I had this new way of like engaging and
socializing which was like just not like in your face
(46:38):
and not assertive and not inserting my own opinion into
things that didn't involve me. And I was like, well,
this isn't that funny either. But I've definitely found a balance.
It's like you can be all those things but actually
have a really fun disposition. You know, when I walk
into a room, I want to like have a good time.
If I'm going out, I want to have fun, and
(46:58):
I want other people around me to have fun.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
So it's more with like that intentionality.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Now I love that. And how do you feel like
you know when to check back in with therapy, because
I I know, I'm curious about that, And I bet
there's a bunch of people at home who might be
scared to ask someone in their life that question, but
who would love to hear you talk about how you know?
(47:24):
Is there a feeling? Is it an increase in anxiety?
Like what is it that makes you go like, all right,
it's been a couple of months, and I should I
should check back in, I should go back to the
mental gym.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, totally great question.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
I think it's definitely anxiety, like if I'm rutable with
people or everyone, like my schedule is too crazy and
I'm not handling it with a plumb and like h
I'm like, okay, something's going on with you.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
If people are really.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
Annoying me, then I know I need to talk to
my therapist because I don't want you know, I've learned
to have patience for people who I don't respect.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
You know what I mean, to have patience for people
who I don't find like I'm actually I can deal
with that.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Now I can deal with someone I think is stupid
and sit across from them and be respectful and able.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
To do that. Then I'm I check in.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Then I feel like, okay, I'm praying a little bit.
I need to refresh, I need to center myself. And
I think the feeling that I feel the most is
the way that is best describes it as when I
feel grounded, like when I feel in my own body
knowing that I am the tree.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
You know, I'm not a leaf. I'm the tree. You
can'tnot because I'm so solid.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
It doesn't matter what you say or what you do
or what you take away from.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Me, I am a tree. And when I don't feel
that way is when I check in.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, it's like you can tell that something's just starting
to get a little off balance and you want to
you want to get it right side up again.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Yeah. Like, for instance, this shoulder thing.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
You know, I was like, I spend my Whistler, my
winters in Whistler usually, and I was I had I
was coming back to LA and this kind of thing happened,
and it was I've not planned. I had to have
shoulder surgery for this infection, and so because of it,
I'm getting like the intravenous antibiotics every twenty four hours.
So I haven't had a drink and I don't know
(49:12):
three weeks and I won't have one again for another
two weeks. And I'm like, oh, that's a nice break
from drinking. I wouldn't have taken five weeks off of drinking,
you know, like, oh, well that was probably somebody else
to take a little break from drinking.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
You know, Like all of the little.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Side things, it's like, oh, we never, not, we never.
But as people, it's hard to look at the situation
as a whole and find the like little nice silver
linings to things because we're and I could be sitting
here just bitching about my arm all day and complaining.
And believe me, there have been days where I wanted
to do just that. But now I know in my
(49:51):
life and when I do that, when I'm in that mood,
don't leave from your house.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I just say in my bed and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Let me just put on some TV or read my
book and just don't interact with others.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
As before, I'd be like, oh.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
It's okay, I can hide it. And I could be
in a good mood and it's like, no, you can't.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
You can't hide it in the shitty mood. Everyone knows.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Everyone knows.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
So yeah, but I'm definitely much better at looking at
the whole picture rather than age of the book, you know,
and being like like this, It's like, well there's another
page after that. You know.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
You talk about that in the book that you really
had to come to terms with the power of your vibe. Like,
if you're in a bad mood, people will feel it.
If you are feeling confident, you said it earlier, you
can inject confidence into others. Another thing women are not
encouraged to embrace is their power. How do you feel
like you got really into the power of your vibe.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
I mean, I really like myself.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
And I used to think that was such an embarrassing
thing to say, but I just am going to keep
saying it because I want everyone to like themselves.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah, Like I respect myself.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
You know, I have a standard of operation and the
way that I operate in the world. And I have
high standards for my close friends and my and lovers
and relatives too.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
And you know, and I'm not the most like you know,
if I have.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
A problem, I say I have a problem. It's not
like I can eat the other way a lot. I'm
very kind of forward conflict forward facing, like if there's
a conflict, let's like hash it out.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
But I do have a deep respect for myself and I.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
And I I know I've taken the time to learn
so much about everyone that it was just the right
thing to do to also take that time to learn
about yourself. Like, you can't really have judgments about other
people when you don't know where you're coming from. And
(51:51):
once you realize where you are coming from, the judgments
kind of diminish and full because you realize you're your
own experience and to have respect for the way the
respect the way for the way you've handled difficult situations,
to have respect for your work ethic, to have respect
like whatever it is about you.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
You know, you don't have to be me to respect yourself.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
You have to be somebody who's willing to look within
and look around and look at yourself and go, what
are the things I admire about myself?
Speaker 2 (52:18):
I love the fact that I'm on time.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
I love the fact that I that I if I
say something, I'm going to do something. I love the
fact that I'll have an honest, difficult conversation with someone
that's a friend or not a friend. Like the fact
that if there's a room of twenty people and somebody
has to land a plane, I would be like, probably
should be me. I mean that's had a plane. But
you know, like I like that I'm so capable. And
(52:41):
these things are okay to say about ourselves. It's okay
to talk about what we love about ourselves. It's kind
of beautiful. And it's so easy for you to say
to Ashland, right, it's so easy for you, these are
the things I love about.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
You, and for her to say it back to you.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
But I don't think we spend enough time telling each other,
like telling ourselves good job, Wow, you handled that great today,
you had great you know, patting yourself on the back,
and that should be kind of occurrents for all of us.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Yeah. I love it is this sort of immensity of
joy and the and the greatness of the vibe. Is
it what inspired another book?
Speaker 3 (53:24):
Well, the book would happen when I was in love
with Joe and we were dating and it was very public,
and an editor reached out to me and said, we, Chelsea,
you have to write about your love story, like the
women need to hear this that you found the age
I was forty four or something or forty five, I
don't know, and you know, we want to hear about it,
(53:45):
like it's giving everything hope and blah blah blah. And
I was like, sure, I'll write about it. Yeah, I
would love to write a book about love like who
you know, how funny is that?
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (53:55):
We broke up and then I was like, well, let's
just forget about the book, and she's like no, no, no,
just sit on it and see if anything else, you know,
is spurred from this. And then I was able to
watch myself through this breakup and see how dignified I
was being and how graceful in an area where I
had never.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Been graceful before.
Speaker 3 (54:14):
Within breakups, you know, just ash talking and yelling and
screaming and blaming and you fuck you and you know
they're going to regret the day, all of that nonsense.
And so it was so nice to actually extricate myself
from a relationship, never really tell anyone what happened, never
back to him.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
I never once went to.
Speaker 3 (54:37):
His social media and looked to see what he was doing,
even when people are like, oh, he's doing Like I
just got rid of all of that behavior, and that
made me so proud.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I was like, maybe I should write a book about
breaking up. And then when I started thinking about it,
I was like, you know what, this is a perfect.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
Example of I had this guy in my life. I
thought I was going to be with this guy and
I was done with men forever, and that was my guy,
and now it turns out that's not the guy.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
It didn't work out. So instead of being my love.
Speaker 3 (55:11):
Story more than the story, he's part of the story.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
He's not the story.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
I'm like, you're the story, and he's part of the story,
and I thought, that's a great way to look at
all of the people that come in our lives without
resentment and without bitterness and with love.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
You know, it strikes me that it is a love story,
but it's it really is a love story about this
ever evolving version of you. You know, the fact that
you got to watch yourself in new behaviors that you
could be proud of, that you could say, I'm doing
a good job. That that's the kind of love story
nobody is telling us to have first, and I think
(55:54):
it's I think it should be just like you were
saying earlier, like women should be taught to prioritize themselves.
I think we should learn how to treat each other
like we're our first. We are our first love story.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
I see you out there supporting all the women's sports,
and I'm just saying, you never know what we might
around the what might be right around the corner for you.
Recommend an eleven out.
Speaker 3 (56:23):
Of ten, another straight woman bites the dust and becomes
a lesbian.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
Listen, Listen, I can't wait for you guys to finally
get to properly hang out.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
It's going to be so well, let's go already. I mean,
how many times do you text me? And then I
never I'm like, yeah, let's go, and then I never
hear back from you. I don't know what your problem is, right, yeah,
I'm here, let's get together.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
And then I know and you know what I am
terrible at is the oh, okay, so she's here, and
then I'll be back in ten days, and so then
i'll and then in ten days I'm I'm like a
fucking dog with a chewy in front of my face.
I've forgotten that we're going to be back in the
same city. I actually just started last week working on
a thing where when I do that, I immediately put
(57:07):
a reminder in my calendar. Good good, my, and my
poor assistant is like, what are what are all of
these things popping up? And I'm like, oh no, it's
a reminder for me. But also I've added you to
the calendar reminder to make sure I've done it, because
I have the attention span of a.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Nat of a mosquito.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
I'm learning it's growth, that's right, So we're gonna do it.
So you're in a joyful moment. The book is coming out,
big birthday like, things are pretty yummy.
Speaker 3 (57:38):
Yeah, I've got a special coming out on March called
The Feeling.
Speaker 2 (57:43):
You know what that's about.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
Oh, I know what that's about. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
No, I've got a I've got a big year ahead
of me.
Speaker 3 (57:50):
I planned it this way because I wanted to like
hit it hard when I'm fifty.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
It's kind of a reset.
Speaker 3 (57:55):
I'm going to do a bunch of stuff I haven't
done in a long time, work wise and personal, like what,
Like I want to do some acting, I told my agents.
So I've gotten some I've been given some opportunities that
I'm like.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
I think I'm going to do this.
Speaker 3 (58:09):
I think, Okay, not that I'm not that comfortable with,
Like I've been doing my podcast, my books, my stand
up for so many years because I love not having
a boss and having to report to anyone.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
You know, I kind of about it.
Speaker 3 (58:22):
Yes, of course, you know, I'm not really good with
a lot of direction. But I figure I would just
seflect some you know, new muscles this year, and I
want to like I've gotten myself this far, like I said,
and I want to see what else I can do
while I'm vibrant, you know, while I feel this alive.
Speaker 2 (58:39):
While I'm feeling positive and happy.
Speaker 3 (58:43):
And you know, the darker things get around us and
the more odiousness that's out there in the world, the
more compelled I feel too. Just keep drumming up positivity
however we can find it.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
That feels really amazing. So does that? Would you say
that now that that feels like you're working progress to
constantly mine the positive.
Speaker 3 (59:08):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, I feel that really, like so
many it's so much stuff.
Speaker 2 (59:14):
We're not even halfway through the year.
Speaker 3 (59:16):
And so many devastating things have happened, And I think
showing up for the people that you can show up
for is just the most valuable thing you can do.
Double down on your love, double down on your commitment
to people, and double down on your reliability, you know,
just to be consistent with people and to be really compassionate.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
And it doesn't sound like a strong fighting.
Speaker 3 (59:39):
Tool, but it's a very tool to get ready for
whatever we need to get ready for.
Speaker 1 (59:45):
I love that. Yeah, the double down feels like a
good north star.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (59:53):
I'm so excited for this big year for you.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
Thank you, honey.
Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Hello friends,
I am so amped about today's guest. She is one
of my favorite comedians, authors, philosophers on life, and she
(00:26):
happens to be here today to talk about her seventh book,
I'll Have What She's Having. Today's guest is Chelsea Hammler.
Chelsea has always been surprisingly vulnerable and incredibly outrageous, and
in this book she is capturing the antic, filled, exhilarating
and joyful life that she's led and that she's built.
(00:49):
It's definitely a life that makes me think, Yeah, I'll
have what she's having. From talking about family, loss, grief, relationships,
and child good she is really sharing how she's discovered
across this landscape, how to spend time with herself, how
to meditate, how to be open to love, and how
(01:11):
to end a relationship with dignity. She is a sister
to so many of us and to so many of
the women who rely on her, and I can't wait
to talk about the new book, turning fifty and her
palpable sense of joy. Hi guys, Hi, Kittie the duty.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I'm just up here icing my shoulder.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
What happened?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
A mess? I'm just a mess.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Did you have a ski fall? What's going on?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh No, I'm too good of a skier for something
like that.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Oh, I had an infection in my shoulder and I
had it to get surgery line in my arm where
I get an infusion of antibiotics every twenty four hours
for four weeks. No, girl, Yeah, it's serious business over here,
serious disease, infectious business.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Well are they also giving you stem cells? Why does
your skin look like this? What's going on? You look gorgeous.
I mean you always look gorgeous, but like you're extra glowy.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Probably because I've spent about two hours a day in
a hyperbaric chain.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay, so that's what I need to start doing chamber glow.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Girl.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Great, it's almost your birthday.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I know I'm gonna be the big one.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I'm gonna I can't wait. I want to do Coast
to coast. I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh my god, let's go.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I'm ready. We're gonna bring your your raging, dancing, cheering section.
I can't wait.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I know I'm gonna celebrate this year. I'm just gonna
celebrate all year long. I mean, especially with the backup
we're living in you know, we've just got to look up. Okay,
look up, look for the bright the rainbows in the sky.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
You have to. And you know, I started to realize
it's like I get so much creativity and joy and
thoughtfulness from our community, from friends, from cooking for people,
from gathering people. And I realized recently I was like, oh,
I'm going to have to start not just being a
sort of signal booster of the news like online. I
(03:26):
think I actually have to start. I don't even know
how to do this. I'm like, I'm not an influencer.
I think I need to bring like just some purely joyful,
dumb shit to Instagram just to help counterbalance the fire
hose of nightmarishness that we're all on the receiving end of.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It's pretty astounding what we're meant to, you know, deal
with and the amount of information coming at us. But yeah,
we got to focus on doubling down on love and
being there for the people that really need us the most,
and even for people who don't you know, people you
know and people you don't know, but just ye show
(04:03):
up in a different way, extra extra kind, extra love.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, it's like we can rage against the machine and
then we need to be very teddy bearish with each other.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, absolutely, you know about teddy bear.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
To me just a little. I want to bring some
people some joy and laughter today. And you know, because
you've been on the pod before, I love to talk
to people about you know, do you see versions of
who you are in your childhood self? You've answered that
question for me already, So what I would like is
for you to take us back to a childhood story.
(04:40):
But it was one I've had the good fortune of
seeing you tall a few times on stage, and it
is a highlight in the book for me as a
reader anyway, as well, when you talk about how you
realized that you wanted to make money, so lemonade stand
seemed obvious, and then you had a really, i would
revolutionarily entrepreneurial idea for a ten year old. Can you
(05:04):
tell the folks at home what you realized?
Speaker 3 (05:07):
But yeah, I started a lemonade stand when I realized
my parents had no financial plan for themselves, never mind me.
And I was already kind of disgruntled when I was born,
seeing that there were so many other children in my family.
There were five other brothers and sisters, and I'm like
this is expensive, Like how can we even afford this?
And then I was like, oh my god, this is
my family.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I can't believe I'm stuck with these people. So as
early as I could, I started.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I was just trying constantly thinking of like schemes and
ways to make money or how I could employ myself
at and you know, as an underage entrepreneur. So I
lemonade stand like many people do you know lemonade business.
Obviously that's like, you know, low hanging fruit. And then
I just was like, this isn't a lot of money,
you know, Like I think we made like thirteen or
fourteen dollars in one day. And then I was like,
(05:52):
you know what we should do is just amp this up.
There's an opportunity for a bigger profit of margin if
we made it a hard lemonade stand. Then I got
some gin, whiskey and tequila obviously from my parents' house,
and I listed another ten year old who lived on
ours who was renting in the neighborhood that we were in,
and I think his name was Nelson, Yeah, and I called,
(06:14):
I knocked on doors.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I'd be like, Hi, my name is Chelsea Handler. I'm
an entrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I'm looking for another, you know, ten year old, eight
to ten year old to.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Be in business with me.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I'd like to partner with someone, and brought Nelson out.
I started grooming Nelson right away. I brought him to
our lemonade stand. I'm like, do you know how to
make like a whiskey soda? Like you need to figure
this out because we're going to have lots of customers.
And we made a killing. We made so much money
because the parents started drinking. I said, you can't serve
anyone alcohol that's under ten. You know, obviously I have
some standards. But we made a killing. And I remember
(06:47):
after the first week, like word had spread like wildfire,
like everyone was coming to our lemonade stand on Martha's Vineyard.
And obviously now I know it's because we were the
only hard lemonade stand and they and we made like
three hundred and fifty nine dollars I think was the
number that we made in our first week.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Nine dollars.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
And then I gave Nelson his commission, which was three
dollars and fifty nine cents, and he was floored.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
He was like thank you.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
He's like wow, I feel like I'm like, you have Nelson,
Stick with me, Stick with me, and I'll show you
the way.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Incredible, incredible. I would imagine that half the people who
rolled up were really excited to get sassed by a
ten year old at the same time they were getting
a cocktail.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I mean, I've had a lot of you know, piston
vinegar that I was spewing from a very young age.
Even as a very young child, even when I was
two and three years old, I felt like a woman,
like I felt like a woman like I wanted to be.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I wanted a briefcase, I wanted a suit, I wanted.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Heels, and I wanted wanted a business, like I just
wanted to own a business. And I remember being so
frustrated being a child. I just wanted to grow up,
Like I just I hated the idea of being so
dependent and on my parents and being so tired to them,
and and I.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Just I just could not wait. I knew that I
knew better, you know what I mean, like worse. You know,
if I was we're the one in charge of finances,
we would be fine. So like I just wanted to
start that as quickly as possible.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I love it. I feel like our little kid selves
would have been friends. I did the same thing, like
by the time I was eight, I looked at my
parents and I was like, I love you both. You're
fucking lunatics. I'm I got to make other plans, Like
I just I don't know. I think there's something about
some little girls that come into the world like grown ups,
(08:42):
and I'm glad that so many of us have found
each other.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, that's for sure. I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And I think that there are so many like minded
so many more like minded people, you know. That's what
LA and New York and places like where we live are,
you know, a melting pot of so many different types
of people.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
But yeah, I take a lot of pride, and.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
It makes me very happy, I guess, less prideful, more
happy to be connecting with like like, for instance, so
many other women who don't want to be mothers or
don't want to be who really don't even see that
as like part of their future.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It's like so freshing to hear so many people talking
about that, you know, I love that.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
It's like when you speak up about something and all
of a sudden you start to hear other people that
feel the same way about something. It's quite encouraging, you know,
just to realize the non aloneness of your opinion.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yes, well, and especially because I think for women there's
been this sort of prescriptive this is what your joy
will look like list, And I mean, I know for me,
even it's almost two years ago now, like finally being like,
I don't I got I think I have to say
this out loud, like I did the list and I'm
so unhappy. And then the number of women I knew
(10:05):
from every walk of life that were like, oh me too,
Oh me too, me too. Did you hear so and
so is going through this? You should call her? Let
me put you on a text with my friend who's
also and boom, Like, you have such a huge community,
and sometimes I think the barrier to entry is just
that you haven't said what you need or what you're
(10:26):
afraid of or what you're experiencing out loud. In the
minute you do, it's like all the barriers evaporate.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, it's absolutely there's always another person or another group
of people that are going through whatever you're going through.
And that's something that women can't hear enough because people
feel so alone, you know, when they feel like, oh,
they're not worthy, or they're not doing this right, or
it's like and we all feel that way, even the
most confident people in the world feel that way. So
it's nice to mind each other that there isn't you know,
(10:59):
there's always a community for anything, even if stuck on toes,
there's a community.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
For that too.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Listen, we don't kink shame here.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
No, no kink shaming.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Speaking of it's the most perfect segue for the title
of your book, because as soon as I saw you
were going to call it, I'll have what she's having,
I thought, yes, she is, And it's going to come
out on your fiftieth birthday. And it really feels like
a love letter to yourself and to so many women.
I mean, I feel it as a member of your community.
(11:34):
I'm sure so many readers who don't know you personally
but have followed you for so long will feel that.
Is it also a little bit of like a birthday
present to yourself this one.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Well, it's becoming that way, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I didn't on it publishing it on my birthday, but
when we were going over dates and my birthday was
one of those dates, I thought, Okay, I could have
like two minds about this. I could be like, no,
I'm not going to let I'm not going to work
on my birthday, or I'm not gonna let my birthday
be overshadowed by because it's such a big birthday, like
be overshadowed by work. And then I was like, no,
but this is so me. Work and my life are
(12:07):
always kind of intertwined. I'm they're always mixed. It's not
like I'm a private person or I'm you know, precious
about my personal life. I've never been that way. I'm
always kind of feeding it up. So it is kind
of turned into a birthday present for myself because it's
my seventh book. I I am really in the mode
(12:30):
of really injecting optimism into other women and confidence. Who
are always asking me about my confidence, and it's like,
I don't know where my confidence comes from.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
All I know is that it can be infectious.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
And like, when I'm confident people, I feel even more confident.
And when I'm around people who are not confident, I
want to inject them with like this. I want the
substance for confidence for girls, you know, I want.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Everyone to know like you can.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
It's kind of a practice and to actually, really it's
just so much more optimistic to be confident and not
to be arrogant.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
That's a separate thing, but confidence is really just.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Knowing who you are and not being apologetic for it,
and knowing that you're a good person. I think so
many times in our lives we question whether or not
we're good people just because we're having negative thoughts about
a situation or about another person or seditive or you know,
(13:29):
and I feel like that kind of I know, for me,
I'm always like, oh God, am I a bad person
for thinking that. It's like, no, you're not a bad
You're only a bad person if you act on those feelings.
Of course, we're all have emotions that run across the
human spectrum, jealousy, of envy, of disdain and love and
all of everything that comes in between. But it's good
(13:51):
to embrace those feelings, understand them, acknowledge them, and then
like you know, move forward because and I think the
thing that's lacking, so you know, the most in our
world is confidence. Yeah, and I think as we've just
been targeted to like almost have have that taken from us.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, Well, in this weird way, we've conflated confidence and conceit.
And it's like, yeah, don't be a conceited asshole, But
you deserve to be confident. You deserve to be proud
of yourself. Do you need to walk through the world
with pridefulness being used as like a as a club
to hit other people with. No, but you deserve to
(14:34):
be proud of yourself. And I think I think this
idea of of how, oh we have to renounce anything
that you know could possibly be seen as egotistical, it
really just feels like a really insidious way to strip
women of their confidence, of their willingness to celebrate themselves,
to keep them you know, small or afraid. And it's like,
(14:57):
we don't need to be wasting any more time doing
any of that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, no, I agree, like that, that's out the window.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Okay, we need to be building blocks and building back
better is what we need.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, yes, building bitches back better.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Building bitches back better. I like that.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
And now for our sponsors, I love that you've been
so frank and you said you're not precious about your
personal life, but you know, it's a weird thing to
be a person in the public eye and to have
when you try to keep things private for yourself. They
(15:34):
kind of can often get eaten up when you share things.
People are like, no one was asking. It's like, no
matter what you do, somebody's going to tell you do
it wrong, which might just be again being women. But
you seem to have found this really cool flow in
your life where you're really willing to tell it like
(15:54):
it is. You're willing to kind of pull the lid
off the lessons, you know, admit the hard stuff, talk
about what's great, and you really are doing it, as
you said a few minutes ago, with this incredible I
don't even want to call it energy. It's like the
whole thing is really fueled on this positivity that you found,
(16:17):
and I'm inspired by that point blank period. And then
there's the other layer of you're also doing this entering
fifty when so many women are essentially, you know, whisper
warned that they're going to become irrelevant, and it's like
you're hotter, funner, more relevant than ever. I Do you
(16:39):
love the way this whole phase feels because you're booking
every tradition in the book, or does it also just
feel sort of silly that people ask you questions like
this in the first place, because what the fuck are
these traditions and where did they come from.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I mean, I will say that I feel very and
I talk about this in the book. I feel very
happy that I had enough belief in myself that I
did not listen to other people steering me in the
wrong direction.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, many times in my life where I got advice or.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Was told not to do something. I don't do that,
don't do this, don't do that. And I'm not very
good at, you know, taking direction and listening to other people,
especially when they're men obviously telling me.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
What to do. It's like, you're not in a position
to tell me what to do.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
And it's kind of been my vibe the whole way,
you know, throughout my life. When I started my career,
it wasn't like, oh, it wasn't the conversations we're having
now and understand, you know, the impact of white male
supremacy that it has on you know, all of us,
and the kind of trickle down effect and how well
(17:52):
I was kind of blinded.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I had blinders on.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I was just like, I'm going after what I want.
It doesn't matter if I'm a man, woman, child, whatever,
I'm doing this and I was just so like intent
and focused on what I was doing and having a
good time and having like this party of a TV show.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And I wanted to have all my friends on and
that's what I did.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
And I didn't really notice, you know a lot of
the things that we're talking about now that are so
front and center right till they started happening, that until
the conversation started flowing. Like I remember, my friends would
be like, you know, once you hit forty, you're never
going to work again. And this was like twenty years ago.
I'm like, that's a terrible attitude, and they're like, well,
it's not an attitude, it's a reality. I'm like, it
(18:34):
doesn't have to be your reality. That's just that can
be your reality, or you can just decide you're not
going to you know, that's not going to be the
way that you're going to operate. So I always kind
of had that kind of attitude. But that is pretty
naive because just because something doesn't happen to you or
impact you directly, you have to be conscientious and conscious
(18:55):
of the fact that it is happening to millions of
women in the world all the time, every single day,
in all mediums of business and entertainment and whatever you
do in the world, it's male dominated.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Everything is except for women's soccer, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
So I think, like I think that I'm very I'm
grateful that I didn't allow myself to be pushed around
and that I didn't allow myself Like even when I
bought my house in my Orca, I remember, and I
put this in the book because like my business manager
was a guy.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
My manager was a guy.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
There were like three other men in my life who
were like, that's a terrible business decision, that's way too
much money.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Don't do that.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
The Spanish economy is terrible. And I remember hearing their
advice one after another after another, and after the sixth one,
I'm like, I've never been more convinced to do something
than I am.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
To buy the class in Spain.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Like your negative attitudes have convinced me that I definitely
must do it. And once again it turned into a huge, huge,
positive life decision. Book have given so many people great times,
great vacations. I've provided so many people with like vacations
of a lifetime at that house.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I've written two books in that house.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
The Spanish economy went through the roof the year after
I bought it, So I just I just always go
back to that when I'm like, I'm not an indecisive person,
but ever I am on the fence about something I
know now, think like, sit with yourself, be quiet and understand, like,
what is the answer right now?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Really? What is the truth?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
What is because only only each of us know what
is right for each of us.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Nobody else who can give you that information.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
So the closer you get to a dialogue with yourself
and an understanding and the knowing that all women are
talking about, the better, like the better your life is
going to be.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, I like that, sit with yourself, be quiet and
really listen, because we don't. That's not a lot of
advice that we get. It's always, well, what will this
mean for your career and how do you think it'll
impact that, and what's the bottom line going to be?
And you know, there's always a question about how you're
supposed to couch your decision and this moment to sit
(21:19):
and not gatekeep that the way to really figure it
out is to figure out what you want what your
answer is not necessarily what's popular, not what.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Not.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Whatever they've put on the list that's supposed to make
you happy when you check all the boxes, you like,
listen to yourself, and you talk about it in the
book in a way that really hit home for me
because I had to ask myself a series of the
same questions when you talk about the relationship that you
(21:55):
had with Joe Koy and how you did it differently
in terms even of how the public was let in.
And again there's that like do you let people in
so they know what it is? Or do you keep
them out and then they just gossip about what it is?
I don't fucking know, but it was a difference for you.
(22:15):
And I've been so touched by how beautifully and gently
you've talked about how it was wonderful and successful even
though it wasn't the foreverything everyone thinks it's supposed to be.
And you talked about how you had to listen to
yourself and know, oh, what this person wants is not
(22:36):
compatible with what I want, and so I have to
choose me because the other option is you shrink yourself,
or you compartmentalize yourself, or you abandon yourself. Right, Like,
that's the energy that I've gotten from the kindness with
which you speak about that and the frankness that you
(22:57):
managed to speak with at the same time.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Time, Yes, I think that you know, if you're not
like growing and changing, right, what are we doing and
we're just becoming this we're the same. Like I don't
want to go through the same relationship I was in
ten years ago. I want everything to be like one
and done. Like I don't need to learn a lesson twice.
I would prefer to learning and be done, make the
first the last time.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And I don't think about relationships like that.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
But I am so much more mature than I was
when I was in my twenties or when I was
in my thirties, and I'm not I don't care like
to me a romantic partner, a lover. All of those
things are wonderful things to have in your life. They're wonderful.
They should be additions, not subtractions to your life. And
(23:48):
I can't imagine myself at this stage in my life
ever being upset at an ending like just too. I've
been through too many things to not know that it's okay,
k for things to end. It doesn't mean that anything failed.
It means that you're healthy enough to have your own back,
and that is kind of the way that I go
(24:11):
about things now, Like that was a you know, I
didn't want to break up with Joe Cooy.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I was in love with him. When I broke up
with him, we were in love, but it.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Was very clear to me he had a very different
idea of what that meant than from what I than
what I meant. And I'm everyone knows how I feel
about everything, So this cause is and there shouldn't have
been to him either because I am an open book.
I'm not going when I make decisions. A lot of
the times I think about if this is something that
(24:38):
I would put up with for my nieces or my
you know, or the women in my life, like is
this something stay with as a standard to whether or
not I should be dealing with it, And at that
point in our relationship, it just became clear we were
not on the same page. He expected a lot more
from me than I was willing to give in any
relationship and choose myself, and I chose myself knowing, Okay,
(25:03):
bring this, bring it on, Bring on the fucking pain,
because this is gonna be so painful. You're leaving one
you love, and but also knowing I'm gonna be okay.
Like it's you know, we go through so many breakups
in our lives, wondering if we are or separations or
breakups even with friends, wondering if we're gonna survive, if
we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
The answer is yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
And to know that before you make the decision and
while you're making the decision is such a strength.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
That why do we keep ending up where we started?
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Like there's so many times where a breakup I'm like, no, no,
You're holding on.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
So tightly, like I don't want I don't want this
to end.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
It's like I didn't want that to end, but I
knew it had to, so I had.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
To end it.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
And and but with also with a ton of gratitude
about the experience in it of itself, a ton of
gratitude about him opening my heart to even be in
a position to be spreading and instagram and talking about
how much we love each other, like.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I love doing that. I thought that was fun. I'm like,
I can't believe I haven't been doing this my whole life. No,
and people for us, you know, people would.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Run up to us on the streets of New York
or in la, oh my god, if you found love,
anyone can find love.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I'm like, yeah, let's go everyone, surely. And so it
was very warm.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Like like warm hearted the response from the public. And
I had never experienced that kind of like support, and
I was like.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
This is fun.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
So it brought out all these wonderful things that I
didn't even know about, and I, instead of being upset
or mad at him for not understanding me and not
getting it, I just kept reminding myself of all of
the good things that came from that relationship, you know,
in a big way.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
He really reminded me of who I am and who.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
I've always been, and I had kind of lost track
of that. I kind of gotten off of, you know,
my m O in life, which is just to like
just to be a hustler and to be a lover
and to like really just have this big, loud, brave life.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
That's all I wanted.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
When I think back to me as a child, I
was just like, I just can't wait to get going,
like to get it going. And now here I am
and I'm fifty and it's going, and I've I got
it going, and I have five years or thirty years
now in this industry.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I would say twenty five very successful years in this.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Industry where the scientific like the data shows me, Okay,
you're capable, you're smart, you know how to get the
life you want. Now you have it, and now what
are you going to do with the next twenty thirty years? Yes,
I don't want to say fifty years, because of course
I don't want to live to one hundred. But I
(27:47):
just read the saying that if you can get if
you live through the next ten to fifteen years, you
there will be enough like scientific innovation to get you
to live to like one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And I'm like, who the fuck wants to live to
a I don't want that. No, I can't afford that.
Nobody can.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Nobody can. I just want to live to like a
nice old age that feels happy for me, but be healthy.
Like I don't need to live to one hundred and twenty.
But if you told me I could get to eighty
six healthy and never have to deal with cancer, I'd
be like, whatever that is, signed me up for that.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, that's right. No cancer would be a nice bonus.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
And now a word from our sponsors that I really
enjoy and I think you will too. I love the
whole perspective that you just shared because I remember years
ago I got to write this article talking about, you know,
(28:46):
the pressure women are under defined love, and to me,
it's always bothered me that people treat a break up
like it's some kind of a failure. Like you said,
like an ending is a bad thing because even if
you are one of the people who wants the you know,
you want the paper list, you want the who's my person,
who's my happily ever after? Okay, well, every relationship theoretically
(29:09):
before that person has ended. So you're going to tell
me most of your life if it's been endings until
you know this, this positive thing you've asked for is
a failure. Like no lessons. It's like books that you've
read and lessons that you've learned. You know, I think
every like you were saying earlier, every time you share
(29:32):
a piece of your life with a person, a romantic relationship,
a friend, if you evolve out of that, that just
means you're growing. And there's no way you're going to
grow on the same path with everybody. But what a
gift to be in any kind of relationship for any
length of time. That has encouraged your growth.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Absolutely, and also growing is is saying goodbye sometimes is
letting you go, like if not everybody is meant to
be in your life ever, like we have to bringing
on to each other. Like some people are just supporting characters.
Some people some people you're a part of their story.
You know, it's not for you, it's about them maybe, yeah,
(30:12):
and not to be so like just to accept the
reality of the situation. Accept something if it's not if
it's not working, it's okay, then it's time to move on.
There's what three hundred million people in this country alone.
I mean, we're there are other people out there to
serve your needs and your purposes. And I'm not just
talking about romantic I'm talking about and family, And it's
(30:35):
okay to take breaks, and it's okay to like to
look at people as like a temporary thing, like not
every there's not we I don't know why we attach
such permanence to things, because nothing is permanent, So I
don't know that idea in the first place.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
And I think sometimes the pressure of the permanence that
we ascribe to something can actually trap us there. Like
I know that that is true for me in the
last couple of years of my life. I you know,
I've said this. I did everything I was supposed to do,
and I did everything right, and I checked every box
on the list, and then the train had kind of
(31:14):
left the station. And looking back, because the kindsight's twenty twenty, right,
Like in the moment, you're just dealing with your life
and trying to hear that inner voice. But when I
look back, I can see these moments where, if I'm
really honest, and it breaks my heart a little bit,
I abandoned myself.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I knew what.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I needed, I knew I deserved better. I knew the
answer had to be different. But plans were made and
promises were made, and I thought they had to be kept.
And I thought, if I can just work harder, if
I can just maybe maybe shrink myself a little bit,
if I could be more amenable too, And all I
was doing was continuing to cut myself down. And by
(31:56):
the time I realized I couldn't move without feeling like
I was cracking eggshe they weren't just on the floor,
they were all around me in my life. I was like,
how the fuck did this happen? Like how did I
get here, and and sometimes I think the pressure that
it all puts on us, it gets so loud that
(32:17):
we can't hear that voice. We can't hear yeah, you
know you you can't hear your inner self say you
love this person, but you got to go. And I
think it is so fucking crucial that we talk about it,
and that we start giving not only ourselves permission, but
like you said earlier, by talking about it, other people
(32:39):
feel permission to talk about it too.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Absolutely, and honesty, you know what I mean, to be
really honest with each other as women is also integral
to like to to like being a dutiful women to
other women, Like you know, some of us play things
off like oh it's okay, or they don't you don't
want to share, you know, or you don't want to overshare,
you don't want to burden other people, And so then
(33:03):
you're kind of you're kind of begetting this like lie
because being truthful about your own situation, So how is
that supposed to shed any light on another woman's situation
or another friends? Not even really telling the truth because
you're too ashamed to actually sit down with your thoughts
and go, am I happy? Is like how do I
(33:23):
feel who like you have to get to a place
where disappointing other people is not your problem, And for
some women have the biggest issue with that. We are
so allergic to the idea of anyone being inconvenienced on
our behalf. It would have been calling off your wedding,
even though I'm sure before your wedding you had those feelings.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Some of those feelings you going through with it.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Was because you didn't want to inconvenience all the people
that were going to be there, right, And that's what
we do as women. We are trained to make sure
that our feelings come last. And I need a retraining
program because our feelings should be should come.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
First, absolutely, Because it's the same as the adage. You know,
when the oxygen masks come down, you have to put
yours on first if you're going to help the person
next to you get theirs on.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Absolutely, and by putting myself you know, I talk about
therapy in the book, and I talked about it a
lot in my last book, and we've spoken about it
at length, Like therapy teaches you, it's so I the
irony of therapy is so funny because I went to
therapy with.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
The intention of like getting out of my own ass.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
I'm like, I need to get out of my ass,
Like I'm so far up my own ass, I need
a break. And the very act of going to therapy
is actually talking about yourself ad infinitum for months, years
on end. So the act of getting out of your
own ass requires you to really crawl up inside your
own ass. Yes catch twenty two, because you're like, well,
(34:51):
wait a second, I was trying to get away for myself,
but here I am again. But once you do put
in that work, and once you do actually go to therapy,
which is hard and brave and tough feeling a lot
of the time because nobody wants to go in and unearth.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
All of this stuff. But when you do, what you come.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Out with is just a much less apologetic person, like like, no,
these all of this is not my problem. I'm my
biggest problem. And if I can get myself on straight,
then I'll be able to do so many great things
for so many people in my life. But if I'm
a sured and if I'm not being truthful, then then
I'm like a limp biscuit.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
How can I help any Yes?
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Absolutely, And I think one of the things that I've
learned in that space that's so important, Like you can't
heal it, you can't get past yourself if you don't
really go in and you know, pull all the threads
and see what you're made of. And for me, the
aha moment when I was like how the fuck did
I get here? I was like, I had one rule
(35:54):
for myself. It was I am never going to have
a lifelike X fill in the blank. I'm also learning
like you said in your book, I'm like, there's things
I'll keep to myself because I don't need to hurt
other people. But I had a very clear directive for
myself for twenty plus years. I will just never have
a life like X. And then I woke up and
(36:15):
was like how did I get here? And I went, oh,
I said, I'm never going to be wounded like fill
in the blank. And what I didn't do was actually
go and clean out and suture those wounds. So all
I've been fucking doing is finding the clause that fit
my wounds. I said, I'm not going to do that,
and I wasn't even paying attention to how easily they
(36:37):
just slid into those already open spaces, and I was like, damn,
I made a rule, but I didn't do the deeper
layer of self work and introspection. I didn't go to
the center of the thing that hurt me, So I
got hurt in the same fucking way. Whoa. And that
for me was just so revelatory. And it was almost
(37:00):
like in that moment when it when the whole illusion
of it came crashing down and like you know, the hologram,
if you will was gone, and I was just like
standing in the dirt, and then I realized how many
people around me were also in the dirt, Like holy shit,
not only did I have people to talk to, but
it was like finally the moment where the universe was like,
(37:21):
are you done trying to do that? Would you like
to see what might actually be good for you? And
I was like, oh fuck, the only way, the only
way to the other side of it is to go
back to the beginning and walk through it.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yeah, yeah right.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
And also like that's what you're talking about, you know,
it's like a circular you're having a circular conversation, you're
repeating patterns, you're doing things over there.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, how you got here? When you know so much
more and you know better. So yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I think I heard Maria Shriver say it first the first, make,
the first.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Time, the last time.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I love that, like disciplining children, like when they make
a mistake or do something really you know, unacceptable. She's like,
you make sure that they know that that's not allowed
to happen again. You make the first time the last time.
But I think it's a pla to everything in life.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, I want.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
I want to make sure. I don't want to go
to summer school. I want to go to my ORCA
so I don't get my lessons in. I got it, Okay,
I got that loud and clear. I don't need that
or yes, be open minded. People can reappear blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
But I don't want to learn lessons twice.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
No, absolutely not. And you know what, it even goes down.
I started doing this thing that a friend's mom told me,
like I don't know, maybe two years ago. I was
talking about how I have this tendency to make piles
and I've like learned, you know that women with ADHD
do this, And my friend's mom goes, oh, I can
undo that for you, and I was like I'm like,
I'm forty, what are you going to undo for me?
(38:49):
And she goes every time you pick something up, you
just have to say, I don't want to waste my time.
I don't want to touch this twice and I was like,
say it again. And now it's like if I pick
up the thing, like, well, what I'm not going to
do is put it down somewhere and then have to
fucking pick it up again. That's a waste of my
very valuable time. And it is like, change the way
I live in my own house. So make the first
(39:10):
time the last time and don't touch it twice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right,
you know, from your emotions to your things. It's like
it's so it's so good, and I think it changes
the way you move. And you talk about something else
in the book that I love, which my brain relates
to changing the way you move, because you said that
eventually you ran out of the fuel of anger and
(39:34):
the drive it gave you, like the kind of I
don't know if you want to call it, you know,
the shocking aspect of comedy or the teasing bit of it,
or the or the judgmental commentary, however you want to
define it. But that really struck me that you were like, oh,
I can't, I can't run my motor on that type
(39:56):
of fuel. Forever so healthy. But I also understand that
some artists get really scared when they feel like they've
run out of something, Like I know actors who've gotten
terrified when they get sober because they're like, I'm not
gonna be a good actor anymore. It's like, newsflash, will
be a better actor.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Bad news flash.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
It's like fat people, bat comics who lose weight. They're like,
we're not going to be funny anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
You're like, you're like, no, your brain is the funny thing. Nice, yes,
But I wonder for you, was there a moment in
realizing you'd kind of run out of this initial supply
that you you talk in the book about how you
ran your first show on it and all these things.
Were you ever afraid that you weren't going to be
able to do what you do off of a more
(40:39):
joyful fuel tank or no?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Yeah, I never wanted to be this person that I am, Like,
I would never at that thought in my twenties or forties.
I'm going to go to therapy, I'm going to meditate,
I'm gonna have a gratitude journal. Like all of that
was like fuck off, Like I don't want to be
about you.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Know, I don't want to hear about chakras. I don't
want to hear about it. See magnetism field work.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Like no, you're like law of attraction.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Right, exactly, law of attraction.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
Like that's all sounded so ooh wah wah la dumb, dumb.
I'm from New Jersey, I'm fast, I'm you know, like
I'm not like that. And eventually, you know, you realize,
I by educating yourself that these things that I just mentioned,
all of them are a great, great things to have
in your toolbox as an adult person. And while I'm
(41:30):
no longer fueled by anger, you know, it's a very
confusing time where you go to therapy and you kind
of learn all this stuff about yourself and then you
have to then you have to absorb everything you learn,
and then you have to apply everything you learn.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
So it's like a process.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
And I didn't want to stay in therapy for like,
you know, I went for two years and then I
was like, Okay, there's got to be an end date
to this. I don't want to be somebody who's codependent
with my therapist. I don't want to be every week.
I'll come when there's you know, I have I have
a therapy appointment today this afternoon. But I do therapy
like incrementally now, like when I have an issue to
my therapist for a couple times and then I won't
(42:06):
see her for a couple of months or a year.
You know, I have the baseline to understand how to
handle my own problems. But at the time when I
first delved into therapy in that big giant way, it
was like, you're kind of auditioning different versions of yourself.
You're like, well, if I'm not anymore, I have to
take the good qualities of the old me and implement
the new qualities of me that I know are going
(42:28):
to be less harmful and hurtful to others. I want
to protect other people. I want to protect myself. And
you're just kind of like boggling together this kind of
new persona or personality of your own. And I remember
finding myself like myself auditioning different versions of this personality,
like Okay, I'm going to go to this dinner party
and I'm not going to talk.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
I'm not going to be the center of attention. I'm
just going to be a.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Guest and I'm not, Oh, my opinion is not that important,
Like just sit back, relax and enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
And that felt weird.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
I'm like, this isn't me either, Like just there were
so many times where I'm like, who am I?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Like, I want the best versions of me combined with
all of the things that I've picked up.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
And then eventually it does click and you realize anger
is not my fuel, you know, my fuel is It
doesn't have to be that. Yes, I can get angry
with the best of them, but I don't wake up
angry even with this like shoulder injury that I have,
Like it's such a pain in my ass and it's
such an inconvenience. But I'm also like, every night I
(43:30):
go to bed, I'm like, thank you for my shoulder infection.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Thank you. I'm sure this is teaching me something I
don't knowing.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
I don't know if God is in the sky or
I'm thinking my mother that's dead.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I don't know who I'm thinking.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
But I'm just saying I'm grateful for everything, the good
and the bad.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
And that's my positioning now about everything.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
If something doesn't work out, thank you anyway for the experience.
And it's not empty gratitude. It's like, I understand now
that not everything happens the way that you want it to.
Not to attach yourself to the outcome of things, but
go through it with grace and be graceful, you know,
be graceful about the achievements, about the disappointments, and be
(44:12):
happy and encouraging and understand, like if I don't feel
confident or strong one day, if I'm having these weird,
icky feelings, to know that that's temporary too, and in
those moments that I will find the confident, strong version
of myself probably tomorrow when I wake up and that
it's there and it's in me and it's not going anywhere.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
So by not being.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Run on anger, I am a lot more. I have
just more expansiveness, like I can. I'm more patient, you know,
I'm understanding and you know, if I need to get angry, yeah,
no problem, but yeah, I mean source of fuel.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors. Did
you know, because I always think it's really easy to
see it all in hindsight, did you know at the
(45:16):
time were you able to talk about it with that
kind of language, like, Oh, I'm trying on new versions
of myself, like I'm leaning into my listener, I'm going
to lean into my graceful, gentle soul human. Were you
talking about that in that really active therapy process or
(45:36):
did it kind of come to you later as you
felt like you like readjusted in my brain. It's almost
like you readjusted the spine of yourself, you know, you
clicked everything back into place, Like.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Yeah, No, it was definitely after Like it was it's like,
you know, how you go to school during the school
year and then you have the summer, and the summer
is meant for children to absorb what they've learned during
the school year. Right, how therapy was for me, Like
I got all this information, I understood it, It made sense,
it was logical and linear here then I was like, okay, now,
(46:09):
now what do I just change my personality?
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Or am I still allowed to be parts of me?
Speaker 3 (46:14):
And you know, and the answer is, you don't change
your personality. You just change the way that you are
in the world. You know your person there and it's
your behavior that matters. So a lot of like confused
and it was definitely after therapy, it was like socializing,
Like I had this new way of like engaging and
socializing which was like just not like in your face
(46:38):
and not assertive and not inserting my own opinion into
things that didn't involve me. And I was like, well,
this isn't that funny either. But I've definitely found a balance.
It's like you can be all those things but actually
have a really fun disposition. You know, when I walk
into a room, I want to like have a good time.
If I'm going out, I want to have fun, and
(46:58):
I want other people around me to have fun.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
So it's more with like that intentionality.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Now I love that. And how do you feel like
you know when to check back in with therapy, because
I I know, I'm curious about that, And I bet
there's a bunch of people at home who might be
scared to ask someone in their life that question, but
who would love to hear you talk about how you know?
(47:24):
Is there a feeling? Is it an increase in anxiety?
Like what is it that makes you go like, all right,
it's been a couple of months, and I should I
should check back in, I should go back to the
mental gym.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, totally great question.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
I think it's definitely anxiety, like if I'm rutable with
people or everyone, like my schedule is too crazy and
I'm not handling it with a plumb and like h
I'm like, okay, something's going on with you.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
If people are really.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
Annoying me, then I know I need to talk to
my therapist because I don't want you know, I've learned
to have patience for people who I don't respect.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
You know what I mean, to have patience for people
who I don't find like I'm actually I can deal
with that.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Now I can deal with someone I think is stupid
and sit across from them and be respectful and able.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
To do that. Then I'm I check in.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Then I feel like, okay, I'm praying a little bit.
I need to refresh, I need to center myself. And
I think the feeling that I feel the most is
the way that is best describes it as when I
feel grounded, like when I feel in my own body
knowing that I am the tree.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
You know, I'm not a leaf. I'm the tree. You
can'tnot because I'm so solid.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
It doesn't matter what you say or what you do
or what you take away from.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Me, I am a tree. And when I don't feel
that way is when I check in.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, it's like you can tell that something's just starting
to get a little off balance and you want to
you want to get it right side up again.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Yeah. Like, for instance, this shoulder thing.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
You know, I was like, I spend my Whistler, my
winters in Whistler usually, and I was I had I
was coming back to LA and this kind of thing happened,
and it was I've not planned. I had to have
shoulder surgery for this infection, and so because of it,
I'm getting like the intravenous antibiotics every twenty four hours.
So I haven't had a drink and I don't know
(49:12):
three weeks and I won't have one again for another
two weeks. And I'm like, oh, that's a nice break
from drinking. I wouldn't have taken five weeks off of drinking,
you know, like, oh, well that was probably somebody else
to take a little break from drinking.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
You know, Like all of the little.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Side things, it's like, oh, we never, not, we never.
But as people, it's hard to look at the situation
as a whole and find the like little nice silver
linings to things because we're and I could be sitting
here just bitching about my arm all day and complaining.
And believe me, there have been days where I wanted
to do just that. But now I know in my
(49:51):
life and when I do that, when I'm in that mood,
don't leave from your house.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I just say in my bed and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Let me just put on some TV or read my
book and just don't interact with others.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
As before, I'd be like, oh.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
It's okay, I can hide it. And I could be
in a good mood and it's like, no, you can't.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
You can't hide it in the shitty mood. Everyone knows.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Everyone knows.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
So yeah, but I'm definitely much better at looking at
the whole picture rather than age of the book, you know,
and being like like this, It's like, well there's another
page after that. You know.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
You talk about that in the book that you really
had to come to terms with the power of your vibe. Like,
if you're in a bad mood, people will feel it.
If you are feeling confident, you said it earlier, you
can inject confidence into others. Another thing women are not
encouraged to embrace is their power. How do you feel
like you got really into the power of your vibe.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
I mean, I really like myself.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
And I used to think that was such an embarrassing
thing to say, but I just am going to keep
saying it because I want everyone to like themselves.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah, Like I respect myself.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
You know, I have a standard of operation and the
way that I operate in the world. And I have
high standards for my close friends and my and lovers
and relatives too.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
And you know, and I'm not the most like you know,
if I have.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
A problem, I say I have a problem. It's not
like I can eat the other way a lot. I'm
very kind of forward conflict forward facing, like if there's
a conflict, let's like hash it out.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
But I do have a deep respect for myself and I.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
And I I know I've taken the time to learn
so much about everyone that it was just the right
thing to do to also take that time to learn
about yourself. Like, you can't really have judgments about other
people when you don't know where you're coming from. And
(51:51):
once you realize where you are coming from, the judgments
kind of diminish and full because you realize you're your
own experience and to have respect for the way the
respect the way for the way you've handled difficult situations,
to have respect for your work ethic, to have respect
like whatever it is about you.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
You know, you don't have to be me to respect yourself.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
You have to be somebody who's willing to look within
and look around and look at yourself and go, what
are the things I admire about myself?
Speaker 2 (52:18):
I love the fact that I'm on time.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
I love the fact that I that I if I
say something, I'm going to do something. I love the
fact that I'll have an honest, difficult conversation with someone
that's a friend or not a friend. Like the fact
that if there's a room of twenty people and somebody
has to land a plane, I would be like, probably
should be me. I mean that's had a plane. But
you know, like I like that I'm so capable. And
(52:41):
these things are okay to say about ourselves. It's okay
to talk about what we love about ourselves. It's kind
of beautiful. And it's so easy for you to say
to Ashland, right, it's so easy for you, these are
the things I love about.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
You, and for her to say it back to you.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
But I don't think we spend enough time telling each other,
like telling ourselves good job, Wow, you handled that great today,
you had great you know, patting yourself on the back,
and that should be kind of occurrents for all of us.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Yeah. I love it is this sort of immensity of
joy and the and the greatness of the vibe. Is
it what inspired another book?
Speaker 3 (53:24):
Well, the book would happen when I was in love
with Joe and we were dating and it was very public,
and an editor reached out to me and said, we, Chelsea,
you have to write about your love story, like the
women need to hear this that you found the age
I was forty four or something or forty five, I
don't know, and you know, we want to hear about it,
(53:45):
like it's giving everything hope and blah blah blah. And
I was like, sure, I'll write about it. Yeah, I
would love to write a book about love like who
you know, how funny is that?
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (53:55):
We broke up and then I was like, well, let's
just forget about the book, and she's like no, no, no,
just sit on it and see if anything else, you know,
is spurred from this. And then I was able to
watch myself through this breakup and see how dignified I
was being and how graceful in an area where I
had never.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Been graceful before.
Speaker 3 (54:14):
Within breakups, you know, just ash talking and yelling and
screaming and blaming and you fuck you and you know
they're going to regret the day, all of that nonsense.
And so it was so nice to actually extricate myself
from a relationship, never really tell anyone what happened, never
back to him.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
I never once went to.
Speaker 3 (54:37):
His social media and looked to see what he was doing,
even when people are like, oh, he's doing Like I
just got rid of all of that behavior, and that
made me so proud.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I was like, maybe I should write a book about
breaking up. And then when I started thinking about it,
I was like, you know what, this is a perfect.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
Example of I had this guy in my life. I
thought I was going to be with this guy and
I was done with men forever, and that was my guy,
and now it turns out that's not the guy.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
It didn't work out. So instead of being my love.
Speaker 3 (55:11):
Story more than the story, he's part of the story.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
He's not the story.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
I'm like, you're the story, and he's part of the story,
and I thought, that's a great way to look at
all of the people that come in our lives without
resentment and without bitterness and with love.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
You know, it strikes me that it is a love story,
but it's it really is a love story about this
ever evolving version of you. You know, the fact that
you got to watch yourself in new behaviors that you
could be proud of, that you could say, I'm doing
a good job. That that's the kind of love story
nobody is telling us to have first, and I think
(55:54):
it's I think it should be just like you were
saying earlier, like women should be taught to prioritize themselves.
I think we should learn how to treat each other
like we're our first. We are our first love story.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
I see you out there supporting all the women's sports,
and I'm just saying, you never know what we might
around the what might be right around the corner for you.
Recommend an eleven out.
Speaker 3 (56:23):
Of ten, another straight woman bites the dust and becomes
a lesbian.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
Listen, Listen, I can't wait for you guys to finally
get to properly hang out.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
It's going to be so well, let's go already. I mean,
how many times do you text me? And then I
never I'm like, yeah, let's go, and then I never
hear back from you. I don't know what your problem is, right, yeah,
I'm here, let's get together.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
And then I know and you know what I am
terrible at is the oh, okay, so she's here, and
then I'll be back in ten days, and so then
i'll and then in ten days I'm I'm like a
fucking dog with a chewy in front of my face.
I've forgotten that we're going to be back in the
same city. I actually just started last week working on
a thing where when I do that, I immediately put
(57:07):
a reminder in my calendar. Good good, my, and my
poor assistant is like, what are what are all of
these things popping up? And I'm like, oh no, it's
a reminder for me. But also I've added you to
the calendar reminder to make sure I've done it, because
I have the attention span of a.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Nat of a mosquito.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
I'm learning it's growth, that's right, So we're gonna do it.
So you're in a joyful moment. The book is coming out,
big birthday like, things are pretty yummy.
Speaker 3 (57:38):
Yeah, I've got a special coming out on March called
The Feeling.
Speaker 2 (57:43):
You know what that's about.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
Oh, I know what that's about. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
No, I've got a I've got a big year ahead
of me.
Speaker 3 (57:50):
I planned it this way because I wanted to like
hit it hard when I'm fifty.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
It's kind of a reset.
Speaker 3 (57:55):
I'm going to do a bunch of stuff I haven't
done in a long time, work wise and personal, like what,
Like I want to do some acting, I told my agents.
So I've gotten some I've been given some opportunities that
I'm like.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
I think I'm going to do this.
Speaker 3 (58:09):
I think, Okay, not that I'm not that comfortable with,
Like I've been doing my podcast, my books, my stand
up for so many years because I love not having
a boss and having to report to anyone.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
You know, I kind of about it.
Speaker 3 (58:22):
Yes, of course, you know, I'm not really good with
a lot of direction. But I figure I would just
seflect some you know, new muscles this year, and I
want to like I've gotten myself this far, like I said,
and I want to see what else I can do
while I'm vibrant, you know, while I feel this alive.
Speaker 2 (58:39):
While I'm feeling positive and happy.
Speaker 3 (58:43):
And you know, the darker things get around us and
the more odiousness that's out there in the world, the
more compelled I feel too. Just keep drumming up positivity
however we can find it.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
That feels really amazing. So does that? Would you say
that now that that feels like you're working progress to
constantly mine the positive.
Speaker 3 (59:08):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, I feel that really, like so
many it's so much stuff.
Speaker 2 (59:14):
We're not even halfway through the year.
Speaker 3 (59:16):
And so many devastating things have happened, And I think
showing up for the people that you can show up
for is just the most valuable thing you can do.
Double down on your love, double down on your commitment
to people, and double down on your reliability, you know,
just to be consistent with people and to be really compassionate.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
And it doesn't sound like a strong fighting.
Speaker 3 (59:39):
Tool, but it's a very tool to get ready for
whatever we need to get ready for.
Speaker 1 (59:45):
I love that. Yeah, the double down feels like a
good north star.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (59:53):
I'm so excited for this big year for you.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
Thank you, honey.
Host
Sophia Bush
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