April 24, 2025 • 57 mins
TV viewers welcomed Susan Kelechi Watson into their homes for six seasons as the beloved Beth Pearson on 'This is Us.' Now, viewers can see her in a totally different role in the Shondaland whodunit 'The Residence.'
The actress joins Sophia to chat all about her time on the Netflix murder mystery, including what it was like walking onto the very detailed sets, the star-studded cast, the talk of a second season, and they both compare notes on what it's like working at Shondaland!
Plus, Susan reveals her path to becoming an actor, which started when she was just three years old! She also opens up about the significance of her role as 'Beth' on "This is Us," words of wisdom for aspiring actors, and her work in progress.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome
back to Work in Progress, whip smarties. This week we
are joined by an incredible performer and advocate who is
(00:22):
one of the most wonderful people to run into in
any room and has some of the most exceptional taste
in the material she chooses to work on. She has
been nominated for Best Supporting Actress in a Drama Series
for the Critics' Choice Awards Outstanding Supporting Actress in a
Drama Series for the NAACP Awards.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Anne has won.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Back to back Outstanding Drama Ensemble Awards at the SAG Awards,
all for her incredible work as Beth Pearson on NBC's
series This Is Us. She has worked across Broadway, film, television,
and she is back on screen in Shondaland's brand new
(01:02):
show The Residence. She's here today to talk about what
it's like to work in the world of Shonda alongside
Uzu Aduba, and what it's like to make a show
revolving around a murder mystery in the White House. We
will touch on some of her lessons about following your passion,
trusting your calling, and finding your voice as an artist,
(01:25):
and I'm excited to ask her about what she thinks
present day Susan would have to say to nine year
old Susan. Let's dive in, Susan, I'm so so happy
(01:47):
to have you on the show today. How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I am good? How are you? I'm great?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You are one of those people to begin that I
have to say in the last I mean, don't know
what time really is, you know, post pre lockdown. Everything's
kind of melting right, but right it feels like five years,
which means maybe it's been ten. But like since you
and I have been running into each other at things.
Anytime I see you in a room, I'm always like, ah.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Ah, so sweet. I love that. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
You're a beautiful talent, but you're such a genuine human
and it was really fun, you know, having grown up
with some of the folks that you did, this is
us with to feel very familiar with some of you
and then get to meet so many more of you,
Like just seeing y'all in rooms, having that experience, you know,
(02:41):
getting your flowers, like giving everybody a family to come
home to on TV. I just I loved it. So
I'm yeah, I'm just thrilled to be with you today.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
This is so lovely and I love like you said,
you know, you do these shows, and you do all
these circuits, and you know what it is, right, and
you meet up people as you go, and you're trying
to like make connections or hope for connections, and you
want to be sort of as genuine as possible and
meet people who are, you know, sort of like minded
(03:13):
and things like that. And sometimes the business feels like
the thing that connects us all. But it's really lovely
when we get like sit and really know each other
as people and know a little bit more about one another.
So I just I love this. I'm so happy to
be here and just explore for a bit, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, me too. And I am so absolutely in love
with new show and I have a million things I
want to ask you about it. But before we before
we jump into present, I like to go back with
people because I think, you know, as as an interviewer,
I kind of get to be in the role of
audience too, right, And like I sit across from people
(03:51):
who are at these beautiful crossroads, who are doing these big,
amazing projects and who have crazy stories, and I like
to think about it before you were you know, a
household name or on a billboard?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Who were you?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
And I wonder if the adult woman that you are today,
like you got to go to the park we were
both talking about loving outside of New York earlier and
run into yourself at nine or ten, Like, if you
got to be face to face with that that little
version of you, do you think you'd see things about
(04:27):
who you are today in her? Or do you think
her mind would just be totally blown at what your
life is as a grown up?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
You know? You know she had big dreams.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah, you know what that'sen YEARL I think had big dreams.
And it's funny you say that because I think I
thought about that the other day. If if if I
would think that this is where I would be, or
would it look different or how you know, would I
(05:02):
find this? Would it feel like the success I thought
that looked like as a young person, you know what
I mean, like those in that age range, because when
you I've always wanted to act, so you know, I
think I always thought of.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
And back then it was like a big deal.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
If I would have gotten like a commercial or like
if I was a voice on a cartoon, or like,
you know, just anything that would kind of put me
in that space and that realm and all that kind
of stuff. And so I think about what I've had
the good fortune to do at this time, and I
think one of the biggest things that changes for me
(05:42):
is probably.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Just the perspective on it.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
You know. I think there's something like, when you're younger,
you don't understand the work that goes into what it
takes to do those things that you dream about. You
don't understand what that journey is really going to be.
And some part of that is fortunate, because maybe a
lot of us wouldn't sign up for it if we
(06:08):
knew all of the bumps and bruises and you know,
hills and valleys and all the things. But I guess
my main hope is that, yeah, she would be proud
of what we've done together, because so much of it,
for me is based on what young me wanted, you
(06:30):
know what I mean, And so much of what I'm
fulfilling now is based on what I really wanted back then.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So there's a lot of connection there. It's not like,
you know, I always thought I was going to be
a doctor, and.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Then suddenly and then you know, I think a lot
of that, but it's connected to who I am as
an artist, but also I think as a person, I
see similarities and I see differences. I definitely see the
side of me that was, you know, very very sort
(07:02):
of forward presenting and very passionate and all of those things,
and aside of me that wanted to people please, or
the side of me that wanted to be to maybe
be liked or accepted, and all of those things. And
I think a lot of a lot of those things
have gone away, which is a great thing to happens
as you get older.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You're like, I don't care, But.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I also think that the passion and and all of
and wanting to take space in the world is still
is still there, and so I feel like we would
have still have that very much in common. It's funny
as we're saying this, I'm like seeing myself on like
a swing set with my younger. It's all getting very
and very like poetic and metaphorical in my mind.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
As we talk about it.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
But it is a beautiful thing to be able to
think of and think like I honored a lot of
the things that I.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Wanted to be even as I was a child totally well.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
And there's something that there's something I like about pondering
this with people because you know, I think part of
our job as artists is to be willing to be
vulnerable in the human condition, right to take failures and
fears as well as you know, love stories and all
the all the good things. But I think when you
(08:24):
do the work to kind of dig in so often,
you you know, you get into your adulthood and you
start to figure out the younger selves you carry with you,
and especially the younger selves you kind of reparent or
you you give wisdom to about something scary or hard
that happened to you that you didn't have then.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And I like also being able to have that visualization,
that swing set moment for the for the joyful stuff,
for like the really good things, you know, the points
of pride that you would probably share with your younger
self and say, this thing you've dreamt of, it's going
to happen. You know, it's a lot different, but it's
going to happen. Right, That's really special. Did you when
(09:09):
you talk about how you're honoring that younger version of yourself,
did you always know that you wanted to be this
kind of artist that you wanted to be a performer,
because I know you went to Howard and got your
MFA at NYU. You know you were you were pursuing
the arts even through your student years. But did you
(09:29):
know as a little kid that you wanted to do this?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, wow, I know from the time I was three
that I wanted to do it. So yeah, yeah, from
the time I was three. Yeah, Like I can remember
like being on my bed and had a little talk
with God and was like, what.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Do you want to be?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
And I was like, I want to be an entertainer.
And I remember just banging my legs against the bed.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And being like yeah. I was like, well that's what
you'll be.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And I was like right, And then I remember like
making these little like what I feel like.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Was the first reality television applause.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
It certain applause here because I would walk out of
my brother and I my younger brother and I shared
a bedroom in Brooklyn, right My two older brothers shared
another bedroom. And I remember walking out of that bedroom
and going into the living room and family was in
the living room, okay, and whatever what they were talking about,
(10:29):
whatever's happened in that living room. They don't know, but
I'm walking into it as like this version of myself
that's being filmed.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Okay, oh wow, And.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Whatever's happening in this living room is the scene. And
I'm walking in and I'd have the scene with them,
whatever it was, and I'd do my little thing and
make whatever that reality was into something, go back into
my room and have a confessional and talk to an
imaginary camera and be like, oh, did you see what
just happened with my brother? Like what do you think that?
(11:03):
And I would have a whole dialogue about it.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
And I did this all the time. You know, this
is something I remember, like I did this often.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
It's like you were starting in the show. You were
producing the show, you were your own camera operator, you
were writing the show, was.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Leading people towards certain conversations, and you know, just like ridiculous, right,
and and I just anything that I could do to
try to do, you know, something in that way.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I wasn't in art school. I wasn't doing any of
that stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
So anything that kind of that kind of led me
there was was what I was doing.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
So then what was the what was the kind of
collegiate process for you? Like you know, going after an
MFA and then graduating and starting you know, pounding the
pavement as we do, like going in during pilot season
all the things. What did that kind of period look
like for you?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
It was not as glorious as I thought it would be.
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I got out of school and I remember thinking, I
want to go straight into a Spike Lee film, or
I want to you know, be in the next you know,
whatever was big, and I felt like for me it
started to the reality hit of like being called in
(12:22):
or not being called into auditions. It's funny. I just
recently did play at the Lincoln Center called Blood Quilt,
and Daniel Sweet is the casting director over there, and
I asked him if he remembered, and thank god he
didn't remember. One of my first things I did out
of school was bussed into an audition that I was
(12:42):
not invited to that Daniel was running. But I thought
I was right for it, so I went and I
was like, obviously this is an oversight. And he took
me aside and he was like, listen, I you know
I can dig it. You're like passionate about this, He
(13:02):
was like, but you cannot. I forget what they even
call it like, you cannot just, I don't know, bust
into an audition.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
That's it. You can't crash the audition.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
And not that I busted into somebody's room on the audit,
but like I came into the waiting.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Room like hit the sign in sheet.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, yeah, like you know, you're like a polite wedding
crashers my turn, but I do get a turn, right,
And so he was like no, Like there's people like
at a certain like he was like.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
No, you were not called in. So there's a part
of me. Sometimes I think about that version of me
and I'm like, oh, I miss that. Because one thing
that the business does it really can humble you in
a way that I found was good for me.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It helped me kind of.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Hone how to use my passion and how to like
focus on how to build these relationships so that I
wasn't just doing like you know, the I wasn't just
being the crasher, you know what I mean. I was
now sort of understanding more of what the protocols are
(14:16):
and not necessarily that I'm going to say all right, now,
let me go just by the rules. But I think
I had to understand a lot more about the business
and what we're in and in order to then be
my authentic self in it. I think a lot of
me just was you know, coming from my background by
you know, my cultural background, from the things that I
had learned in school and only thing you just saved
(14:38):
for it. And I had to really learn what that
process was. And it wasn't easy. Yeah, you can pound
the pavement, you grind, you do all the things, and look,
somebody might look at my journey and be like, well,
that was easier than mine, and you know, it just
depends on where.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
You were you were at in your own journey.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
But for me, my expectation for what I was looking
for right out of school was high, and I had
to learn that, oh, my path isn't like an instant one.
It's there's definitely more of a journey. I didn't walk
into a room and people necessarily went, she's a star,
(15:20):
you know what I mean. I didn't have that experience
of it. You know now now for the you know,
in more recent years, the kinds of reactions that I
wanted when I walked into a into an audition room
are much different than I had in the.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Past, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Or getting the offer, just having a meeting with the director.
All these things have changed, you know, so if everything
is so very different than what it was, but it
feels much more earned than an instant.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yes, well you know they they say it takes ten
years to become an overnight success.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
There you go, and you know it's funny.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I remember going by by that marker and being like, okay,
it's ten years.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, oh where is Like literally, I was so thoughtful
about this stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
And I study the business like I tend to look
at things, but it becomes like a study of those things,
you know, Like I'm not just reading about like reading
the trades. I kind of study like, oh, look at
the patterns and things and how people's careers go and
you know what led to this and why you know,
why did they choose that film over this. That's the
producer mind in me is working at the same time,
(16:40):
and so there is something to even things like ten
years to make a start that I held onto those things,
and I would watch people's trajectories career and I would see,
like who really dropped in at their ten year mark?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Who like did that?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Who sort of is somebody that I can kind of
track and see how they created a success for themselves,
just so that I always had some kind of model
to go by, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And now a word from our sponsors who make the
show possible. When you talk about that, when you talk
about the way that you study things like what's some
(17:32):
of the inside baseball that you've seen? What do you
look for? Because I think so many I know I'm
having the feeling, but I know people listening are like,
what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Say more?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Maybe I could give an example of if there is
an actor who is maybe early on in their career
and and you see, Okay, no, this is something that
I'm looking at. Now, let me give you something that
I'm looking at now. So people who I look at,
(18:06):
people who sort of created roles for themselves and because
that's a lane that I am really starting to get
into now and or re explore now because of something
I thought about a lot in the past, but really
looking to re explore now. And have created these these
(18:27):
lanes for themselves. And I watch how they created the
work for themselves and then they and through that they
gained their own sort of audience and their own sort
of following.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And this isn't like and.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I'm not speaking like directly to like influencers or things
like thatm something about people who like created shows for
themselves or created characters.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
For themselves and do that kind of thing. And then
I watch as like, Okay, so now they have.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Their following, they have the thing that they created that
in turn inspired Hollywood to come knocking at their door
and say, okay, how can.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
We part here?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Then you look at did that partnership create success? What
they able to remain authentic to their brand within that
partnership that partnership once that thing happened, what did that
spawn as the next thing? And whether their next project
was successful or not. Did their fan they stick with them?
Did the people stick because they they they like whatever
(19:23):
it is they're bringing, They want to be along for
that ride. Does that person stay in one box? Do
they start to branch out into other things? And do
they start to work with other directors and other people
so that they have their brand plus you know, they
can be a part of this movie and a part
of that franchise. And you know, so I just watch
how people kind of build but also make opportunities for themselves.
(19:46):
So sometimes you'll have people who are like huge successes now,
but if you trace back, it's because they invested in themselves.
They said, you know, I want to do this project,
and if I hadn't done that, nobody would have hired me. Yes,
and you can't even imagine that now, like nobody you
know what I mean, You're huge, You know what I mean.
They started with the investment in themselves and the belief
(20:09):
and the courage to put to put those types of
projects out into the world. And you know, there's all
types that the people can reject and people can save
me things about you know, anything can happen. But also
I think they invested in that. No, they'll find their audience,
they will find the people that are looking for what
(20:32):
they're looking to give. So that's something that I mean
by studying, like I'll look at how how those things,
how those journeys are created.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I love that because what I'm hearing you say is
whatever the specific example is, what you're doing is identifying
the courage it takes to make something, how someone commits
to that vision, and then like what that might spark
in you when you say someone do something. I think
(21:03):
the beautiful thing about being excited for other people instead
of envious is you watch them do something and then
you go, oh my god, if they did that, what
if I could do this thing I've been thinking about.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I think it's something so wonderful about exactly what you said.
Envy is such a wasted emotion. I wish people would
get that like imprinted into their spirit.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
It is a waste of time.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah, look at that person and get And the flip
side of it is get inspired by it. Hope that
they do more. Hope it's something that it ignites something
in you that makes you want to be better, do better.
Lights a fire that says, oh, it's okay for me
to do that, you know. Hope that you keep having
sparks of beautiful light like that around you, that you're
(22:00):
always in the realm of creativity. You're always in the
realm of something beautiful happening.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Because when you're in a realm where you can.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Touch it, that means you can be it, you know,
and sometimes we just need that reinforcement. We already are it,
but you need the reinforcement to know that you.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Can be it.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
You know you can you are, you know, a human,
but when you become like a human being, a human
doing something. It's different when you can like start to
be it because b is more active.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It's an action, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And and I my hope is that in anybody watching
this that if they do feel that envy in anyway,
just to know that, you know, it's wasted time sitting
there because there is something in you that is so
incredibly unique. Everybody has the thing that nobody else has.
(22:55):
Everybody has it, you know, so just buying yours. I
used to tell people coached for a while and when
things were kind of still sort of in the with acting,
and you know, when things slow down and things get
a little still, I would like coach. And one of
the things I used to say to folks is like,
what's your superpower? And I would help them identify it
(23:16):
so that you know, when you walk into the room,
you have one, and just lean into that thing, you know,
and because that'll give you a certain confidence, you know,
a confidence to kind of and when you can hold
that with you when you walk into spaces, you will
I feel like any of that envy or jealousy and stuff,
(23:37):
you know, it begins to subside because you know you
have something to add, You bring something valuable to the table.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Just by being you. It's just your own authentic youth.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I love that, And it's kind of a recalibration, right,
instead of seeing yourself in competition as when you're losing
as more than or less than to say I am
also yes, yes, I mean what a shift?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
What a shift? And who's keeping score? Anyway? Like why
are you keeping school?
Speaker 3 (24:07):
It's like, really, the thing is, everything happens at different
times for everyone, and I find it's so much more
valuable to really get still and sort of figure out
where you can invest in yourself rather than invest time
tracking other people to sort of be chellous about what
they're doing, you know, you know what I'm saying, Like
(24:31):
I've sort of embraced the practice of like we're just
gonna look straight up at my own life, just what
I've got, and just pick out the things to be
grateful for and just what I have. I'm not looking
at no, just what do I have that I can
be incredibly grateful for in this moment? Tomorrow it'll be
(24:55):
in that moment, the next thing, it'll be in that moment.
But really and really get happy and really like invest
in getting excited about your life. Like practice actually getting excited.
There's there is something exciting to just like, oh, you know,
I'm gonna meet my friend today.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I love being with that friend, you know, to have
like this, you know, this coffee.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I'm gonna make this thing, this pancake that I saw
that they doing, like like the Graham It's like a
two ingredient pan gonna make it, you know what I mean.
Like there's an investment in the little things and get
excited about the little things. And once you start to
see all the little things in your life that you
can be excited about, I think that's such a better
(25:37):
a better focus than looking at other people. Because we
can also go about the adage of you never know
what somebody's going through anyway, you don't know what everybody
you don't know that you really want that you know,
you know, and.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
God, yeah, and God forbid you.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
You you you know, you don't ever want to also
put negative energy out toward people. You want people to thrive,
You want people to you know, to do well. I
think it's a reflection on all of us. I don't
see us so much as individuals. We're all a part
of this big collective, you know, and everybody has their
(26:15):
part to play and the collective. So if somebody's playing
their instrument really well, this doesn't mean you need their instrument.
It means you need to start tuning up yours, get
your rehearsal on, get your stuff together, and get your
instrument popping, because we need you.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
In the band.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yes, somebody is on the other side. I'll never forget
it was told to me this way. Someone is always
waiting on the other side of your obedience. So the
minute you say yes to the things that you are
being called to, the things that you feel like in
your purpose are a part of your journey. The minute
you say yes and you start really you know, pursuing
(26:53):
and achieving, there's somebody else waiting on the other side
to see that, to inspire their part of the journey,
their leg of it, you know. And so you don't
even realize, we don't even realize as human beings the
power there is and really stepping into where you're being
called to be.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's so powerful it resonates for everybody.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, well, because it has that ripple effect.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
It does.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. You know,
it's like the cliche is a cliche, right, it's a
phrase because it's so universally true that hindsight is twenty twenty.
Like you look back and you go, oh my god,
(27:39):
it all makes sense, the stress and the hardship, you know,
the thing that I thought went wrong, but really it
was going right for me. Like is it a wild
thing to now through the journey of your career, you know,
all the work that goes into the overnight success moment?
Is it wild to look back from this knowing how
(28:01):
this is us began for you, how best began for you?
Did you know what it meant? Or were you sort
of on the ride and couldn't believe where it went?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Like what does it look like?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Kind of in the rear view now.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
In the moment, I knew what it meant to take
bringing this character to life in a very three dimensional way.
I knew the importance of that. That's what I knew
in the moment.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I was like, look, you know, we.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Have this woman on screen that I have an opportunity
to really represent the every woman. You know, in representing
the every woman, she comes in my package, which is
a black woman. So I have the opportunity to show
(28:54):
who I know us to be, you know. And I
took that very seriously, and not seriously in a way
where I was walking around like I got to be no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I just knew what that was.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
And that went into any scene that I did or
anytime you know, Sterling and I played that there was
the resonance of we have to be true to who
we know these people are in the world. We have
to be really true to that so people understand and
(29:32):
get a new perspective and a deeper perspective, you know.
So to some people, I was preaching to the choir,
and to some people it was a very new experience
for them as an audience member. But that I knew
in the moment that I wanted to be a woman
that women identified with.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And so she's a very.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
She's very much a compilation of so many different women
in my life that I've experienced. That is in hindsight,
I she is really I you know, I hear all
the time the effect of that she had on people.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I hear about it all the time. I don't know
if I'll ever truly wrap my brain around that. I don't.
I don't know, and I don't I'm not.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Sure that it's necessarily for me too to wrap my
brain around.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I think I can only be grateful that that it landed, you.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Know what I mean with people and and I am
so grateful that people identified with who she is.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
But I didn't watch her in the same way as
an actor.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
When I'm watching my work, I'm watching for technical things,
I'm watching her.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
How do I get better? You know what it is?
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
So you know, you have to allow for it to
be for your audience, you know, and for them to
after a while, she's theirs. She's not really mine anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Well because in a way, you know, I think about
it's like a seesaw to me in my brain, that's
what comes. Like I think about this swing seat, but
then I think about the seesaw. We're just on the
playground today.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah sure.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
And like you bring all these women you know and
their experiences into the room with you, and especially the
experiences of women you know you haven't seen on camera
into the room with you. It's the privilege of being
I think, a woman and an actor, and it's so
compounded and so much exponentially larger as an audience member
(31:36):
and a fan to watch you do this as a
black woman, and as a black woman on a show
like this, and as a black woman on a show
like this married to Sterling K. Brown's character on a
show like this. Inside of the world of the show
like this, like, I just see the multiplication table, and interestingly,
it must be the most personal thing for you and
all these women you know you carry in the room
(31:57):
with you as Beth, And the minute Beth goes out
in the world, exactly as you're saying, she represents, I
would imagine that many women and that many stories and
that many family histories for everyone who watches her and
sees themselves or someone they love in her. And it's like,
in that way, it's almost like the multiplication table happens
(32:22):
out in the world.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, exactly, that's right.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
And you know it keeps going, but you can't possibly
know how big it is because you're not on that
side of the seesaw. But it's like, I remember conversations
I had with my best friend Nia when the show
was on and she you know, you guys started airing
and I was working on a show in Chicago, and
she'd come visit me from Detroit and we were opening
a business in Detroit. We opened a beautiful intersectional hair
(32:48):
salon together because we met in our twenties and we'd
go to award shows and we couldn't get our hair
done together, and we were like, well, the beauty industry's
racistem this is bullshit, right, And you know, in our
two ties we complained about it, and then in our
thirties we were like, oh, well, maybe we'll come up
with a way to fix it. And I remember like
sitting in the apartment one night, like taking her braids
(33:11):
out on the couch, watching you guys, and she was like, Beth,
care's a better speak on it. And we were just
laughing and we were like, it tickled me as a
woman who loves this like powerful, amazing black woman to
see her be so tickled by you. And then like
we're sitting in this moment like taking her braids out
(33:31):
and then talking about how amazing it is to see
you on this big network show as this woman with
her natural hair, Like it it hit us and all
around us and in our business and in our friendship
and like we were just two girls in Chicago watching
your show and you didn't know either one of us.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Then it's mess something It's so amazing the power of
what it means to like come into a living room
for people.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
You know, we know what that is. We we know,
you know. I can't name how many shows growing.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Up that you you know, I there are certain series
like when I rewatched them from growing up, like you know,
I get I get teary eyed.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
At the end because I feel like I grew up
with these people.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
You know, like they were in my my house, and
you know, and so to be able to do that,
if even if it's from anything to seeing a professional woman,
seeing a woman be you know, more than a mother
and a wife and try to find her own way
in the world, or even down to the hair, like
I remember when I started the show, there wasn't a
(34:36):
ton of doing natural.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Hair on TV happening at that time, and.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
I remember being a huge topic of conversation. But it
was one of those things, like I mentioned that I thought.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Well, in my.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Desire to keep her as authentic as I can imagine,
one of the things with black women, you can see
the hair switch up, like that's just part of the
for doing this authentically.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
This has to be kind of a part of this ride.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
And so it was definitely intentional on my behalf, but
it wasn't so thoughtful. I just thought like, oh, you
know what part of the authors see authenticity is going
to be her changing up her hair, Like that just
has to be there, you know what I mean. So
it wasn't like this major, but I understood the effect
that it did have for those watching it because I
(35:30):
can't imagine either, Like if I was, you know, like
on the other side of that, I'd been like, wait,
they don't let us do that.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
You know what I'm saying, Like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
But I was so grateful to be in a space
that that that type of again authentic journey was welcomed.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
And nobody contested it.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Nobody said, oh, you know she needs to nobody said anything.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Nobody said anything. So as long as nobody said no,
I just kept saying okay, and every week okay.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
And then somebody told me that Dan one time was
in the editing room because you know, she was really
switching it up. And and I remember one time Dan
was in the editing room and somebody told me that
Dan was like, oh, I can't wait to see what
best Hair is doing this week. Yeah, and yeah, this
(36:18):
is Dan Fogelman who created the show. For everybody who's listening,
it's you know who's now working with Thirling on Paradise.
Just a really powerful showrunner and creative has given us
so so much amazing work. And Dan was just one
hundred percent down with it. So that it also helps
when the environment is inviting you to do the thing
(36:40):
that you feel best advocates for your for your character.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, and it's interesting, right, Like, I know a lot
of people make a lot of money on the internet,
making it seem like how we allow people to be
fully themselves or fully considered is too much effort for
society instead of awesome, right. And it's like, I like,
(37:05):
I love the way you're talking about it because on
the one hand, it's just authentic. It's just who this
woman is. It's who so many women you know are.
It's actually not rocket science for the production, it's not
hard on anybody. But what it is when it's just
allowed to be part of the daily journey of someone
and be simply that is so transformative for people who
(37:26):
see it who've never gotten to see it.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
So it's like it's not rocket science, but it is
major in terms of what it becomes on screen.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
I agree. Sorry, I just.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Love that you were in an environment where it got
to be both. It got to be the most casual,
obvious thing so that it could go out in the
world and be powerful.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
I remember being in front of we were doing a
panel with the people with journalists from the Golden Globe,
and I remember asking, has anyone in the room seen
a couple like.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Randlen Beth, like a black couple of the way that
we were being.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
And in that Hope Pannel, which was at least maybe
about how many people were in that room, maybe twelve
to fifteen or something, but from all over the world,
there's just one person raised their hands and I was like, oh,
you know, so it was something like I said, it's
something that for some people it's like, yeah, totally we
(38:29):
get this, and for some people it's like, oh wow,
this is so there's there.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
That's the power of what.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
We get to do and and the medium we get
to use to do it, because it can just it's
in your home, turn on the TV's there.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, it's beautiful and you and Sterling did God. I
just I love watching you both work as actors. You know,
I think about on that show and I think about
your new show and his new show that you just mentioned, Like,
I love watching y'all. But the the o bond and
affection and safety you two had together as performers, like
(39:06):
it just radiated from the screen. I imagine it's it's the
most special thing to get to make something like that.
I work with your friend, and it's got to be
hard when it's time to go, right, Like, is it
bittersweet to watch Paradise now and be like, God, he's
so good, but.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I miss him. You know, we got to visit each other.
It's so funny. I was shooting on one line, he
was shooting across the street on the other. No, So yeah,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
So I went over there one time, I think when
I was having lunch or something.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Are we trying to do or maybe I.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Had just finished it, whatever it was, I went over
And the amazing thing is that so many people who
shot on This is Us they rehired the same crew.
They rehirea directors. Yeah, they're high, you know, hair and makeup,
you know, all those people were there. Cool of of course,
(40:03):
Sterling of course, and and Dan and at the time John,
John and Glenn were directing Who and they directed John
Rink gn Glenn Fakarr. They directed our first episode of
This Is Us. So they were essentially the ones that
got me hired onto This US because they were they
(40:23):
were the first directors that I had auditioned for, and
they brought me back into the you know, the final,
the test and all of that. But they they are
fantastic directors and so it was just a whole reunion set.
It really was just like the best reunion. Yeah, yeah,
(40:46):
it was great.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
And now for our sponsors, well, and it's not lost
on me that you went from and I love that
the family continues, right, like the family moves in to
this other space. But you went from a big, you know, familial,
well oiled machine into Shondaland right like Susan, the Residence
(41:10):
is so good.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
It is so great.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
I loved the script when I read it. I am
so in love with the show and the cast and
the pacing and the music and the It's like it
feels like a play and and and like what I
wanted Clue to be. But never was no shade to
anybody who made that movie back in the day, Like,
oh my god, it's it's Poirot. It's all these amazing,
(41:35):
juicy stories and you all are so good, Like how
did this happen? Were you were you freaked out about
like the size of the Shonda World? Did you know
anybody before? Like, tell me, tell me how the residence
came to be?
Speaker 2 (41:54):
You know, I.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Remember my agent told me about it. He first told
me about it and sort of like our group meeting
with everyone that my whole team, you know, and that
was one of the projects that they had discussed. And
then I remember him coming back to it and I
was in London at the time doing a play at
the Old Vic and they said, yeah, you know, look
(42:18):
they're looking at you, you know, for this role of Jasmine,
So give it a read and let us know what
you think. And I called them back within within ten
minutes because I looked.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
At it right away, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
And I called hi back within ten minutes like I
did like page fifteen, and I was like, yeah, sign
me up.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Whatever.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
And then I came back to New York a month
later because I remember I traveled.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
I went to South Africa for the first time. I
did it like a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
And I came back and they were like, yeah, they
want to set up this meeting with you. And so
I met with Paul William Davies, who's the amazing writer,
who just the extraordinary writer. He wrote all eight episodes.
And I met with Betsy Bears, the fabulous Betsy Beers,
and well, actually Betsy wasn't in that meeting, so it
(43:07):
was Paul and Alison who were.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
In that meeting. Wonderful Alison.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
I and and then I had to meet with Betsy
the next day because she was unable to make that meeting.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
And Betsy, as you know, is Seanda's partner. And and
I just when I got in the meeting.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Listen, it's kind of like that that audition crasher I
told you about the second day. She walked into that meeting, like, look,
I don't know what's going on, but I read this scrip, honey,
and this is amazing. You know.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I just was so lit up by this project, so
lit up.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Yes, I was like, whatever you guys need, you know, whatever,
I just I want you to have because this project
is incredible.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
I would love to be a part of this thing.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
I it's it's playing for me in my head like
a movie already. But I think I just was so
excited to meet who was behind it, and like it
was just very exciting to me. I don't know, it
didn't feel like anything like you know, sometimes those things
can feel tense or you know, like you have nerves
(44:20):
or something. I didn't feel anything like that. I was
just so excited by the material. I just thought it
was fun. It just all of it just felt really
amazing and just sort of like I just had so
much love for it.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I think I led with that.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Than anything else. And we just had the amazing conversation
about it. And again then next day I met with
Betsy and we just had an amazing conversation. And the
great thing about Stondaland is like, Wow, they get some
amazing people to work for them and with them, I
should say, they are just an incredible team over there,
(44:55):
and it's really inspiring the way they put people together
and how they lift people up, you know, in their
in their own journeys as writers or as actors, as
you know, behind the scenes. They make sure you know,
crews are respected and that things are as diverse as possible,
and that people get as much opportunity as possible. So
(45:16):
it has been just such a wonderful, wonderful ride with Chaplin. Yeah,
to leave, you know, that's the space of this is
us space, and going to that space was really kind
of amazing, and it felt very correlated in a way
because it was very similar in terms of the type of.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
The type of people I was working with. It's just
really good people.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Good people, and it's and it is it's a level,
it's it's it's rare air, you know. And I've thought
about you guys so much as I've been watching the
show since the premiere, because while it's in my you know,
every couple of days I get to another episode moment
in life. I've been working on Grays this season, and
(46:04):
let me tell you something like walking onto that set,
I went, oh, I see, yeah, this this is exactly
the kind of place I want to come to work.
The way people respect each other, the way people will
speak to each other, the both efficiency that exists so
(46:25):
that you can be patient with the work.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Like it it's rare.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, And oh man, there's there's something very special that
the Shondaland enterprise does. And I feel like it comes
through on screen like I'm watching you all, and the
pacing and the cuts and the there's always something bubbling
under the surface, and it feels so exciting and it
(46:51):
feels very sparkly.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
I think when I think of Shondaland, I think of sparkly,
don't you. Yes, Like it's it just feels like you are.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Watching TV through like champagne. Yeah, it's just the best.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
There's just glitter on it.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
It's just Yes, there's just something shiny about it, and
you just want to jump into the screen and be
with them. And the stories are compelling and they make
you want to It's the best page turn. It just
makes you want to turn the page and go to
the next and go to the next, and and so yeah,
I've binged so many Shonda shows, as as everybody else has,
(47:33):
you know. So the minute I knew that I was
going to Shondaland, I yeah, I was on like, yeah,
the first ticket out of here, and I was like, yes,
I will be there.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
And how did you guys? How is it as a unit?
You know? I think about this world you're inhabiting. I
think about how how Uzo's character comes in as this detective,
how everybody's got to build out the kind of political
apparatus of the White House around it, and the show
is at the same time very serious and very funny.
(48:08):
It's a murder mystery, but it's funny. How did you
all figure out how to to pull the strings of
getting the tone just right?
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Paul was very specific about the tone. He knew what
he wanted it to be. He was very.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
It was written into it musically, I think, and rhythmically.
His tone was written into the script. He was very
hands on about it. So I don't think we were
ever at a loss necessarily for like where we at
and what's the tone.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
I think in the very beginning we had.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
To figure it out, you know, those first first week
or so. But once we were into it and we
got it, I think it was there. And like I said,
it was something that I know all was very clear
about from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
But it's it's it's fun.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
And one of the things that caught us the most,
or caught our attention the most, was that you really
had to play against a lot of some of the
jokes in order for it to be funny in a
way that's funny that doesn't like wear.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
You out, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Like if very dry yeah, if you do it try,
then you can kind of keep that going for a while.
But if everybody's like huge, you know what I mean,
it can get like oh shouts, it's a lot, you know.
So I think that there was something really smart about
One of the things they said was just play it
very straight, play straight, you know, and just let it
(49:43):
be there. Let the comedy be there. And I love
comedy like that. I love comedy where you kind of
don't see, like everybody's just being and it.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Just me so don't I don't like that embarrassing, like dumb,
anxious comedy. I like I like this sort of intellectual almost.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I don't want to say it's a British dryness because
it's a very American show, but it has been a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Yeah, isn't that that is a very kind of British thing, though.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Isn't it. Yeah? It's yeah, it has that. It's it's witty,
you know.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
And and it's it's.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Smart and it's dry.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
And then sometimes it's just straight up you know, you
have characters in there like the Third Man and you're
just like, oh, that's.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Just straight up comedy, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
So there's so many different ways I think it can go,
but I I know that it's very grounded by by
Uzzo's Cordelia Cup, which is a beautiful, beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
You know, it's so much fun to watch her play
this character.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Because you know, it's just watching people play. Was one
of the joys.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
Of being on the show is you could be in
a scene and there are like, you know, there might
be like twelve people in the scene with you right now,
and you might not be speaking, but as I'm watching,
you know, whoever is speaking, I'm biting.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
The inside of my cheek.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
I'm just trying to like hold it together because I
want to laugh, you know, like really when I was like, oh,
that was.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Funny, you know, and I'm such a.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Fan of comedy, so to see that firsthand and in person,
and then and I also feel like Uzo has such
great instincts, you know, Ramdall has such great in There's
people can Marino, There's people just with such great instinct
Molly Griggs, I just go on and on. Their instinct
is just has a bit of a comedic bend to it.
(51:49):
So even sort of the most mundane things can be
just really funny.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
I love that, and the set must be breathtaking, because
for the whole first episode, I'm sitting there being like,
I've I've spent some time what an insane sentence, like
my nine year old self would geek, I've spent some
time in the house, And like I'm looking at the
set and then the sort of three D model of
(52:14):
the back when the back wall comes up, it's so impressive.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
Oh wow, wow, how many.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Like how many sound stages? Is it just the biggest
craziest set you've ever worked on?
Speaker 3 (52:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (52:28):
It was.
Speaker 3 (52:29):
I think somebody asked me today like was it How
did you do the various levels? And you know, some
things were built on a bit more of like an
elevation so that you can come downstairs or you can
go upstairs and you can do those types of things,
and then some things were just on the just on
(52:51):
a flat level and created to feel like you were going.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Up and downstairs.
Speaker 3 (52:56):
But I felt, I knew whenever I was in there,
it just really put you in the middle of the
White House, like you just I've never been inside the
White House, But after so many people who have been
came back and told us it was eerily the exact
(53:19):
copy even down to the like the square footage in
certain areas and things like that. So I I really,
you know, heads off to our design team because it's
it's really an incredible feat because.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
People watch it and think you didn't shoot that in
the White House.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah, you're like, we literally do that. Well, what can
we expect from season two? I am just so excited
for more of this show.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
I you know, I I'm we're waiting to hear and
I'm yeah, And I'm not sure what Paul is up
to for season two, but I would be really excited
to know.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
I knew, I do know.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
That if and when they announced the season two I
know he would be very ready for when. I'm trusting
that He's just so brilliant. But I'm thankful that people
want a season two. It's been you know, it's so
fun to you know, hear people's response to the show.
And and and let me tell you something, in a heartbeat,
(54:21):
they call.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Me up, I'm there for sure, Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Oh. I love that. I know. I know we've hit
our time. I feel like I could spend all day chatting.
We're gonna have to do this in New York in
person soon.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
Oh, amazing. I love it.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
I would just love it. But I will part with
my favorite and final question to ask people, which is
just from here, And it can be a personal thing,
a professional thing, a little mix of both. What feels
like you're working progress as you look out at the
rest of your year and what's coming.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
I think, be brave, be bold.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
I think that's the work in progress.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Be brave, be.
Speaker 3 (55:06):
Bold, because I feel like that calls me into things
that I may not be as familiar with, things that
will make you a little fearful because you don't know
(55:28):
what it is or you're not sort of super comfortable.
But also just if I'm going to do it, be
brave about it and also be bold about it, like
do it in a really step out And I think
that is call for twenty twenty five and this is
(55:51):
a really great year for that with everything going on
in the world, you know, is to face it, sort
of face it with your fearful or not just face
it and be bold about facing it.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
I love that. Yeah, So that mm hmmm, That's what
I'm going to carry beautiful.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Well, thank you so much. I'm I'm just so happy
to have spent the morning with you and so thrilled
that you've brought me my next newest favorite show. So
thank you for the personal I am the entertainment okay,
and I want.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
To watch you on Grace. Yeah, yah yay. I love
that we're we're in it.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
You have a beautiful rest of your day.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Thank you.
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome
back to Work in Progress, whip smarties. This week we
are joined by an incredible performer and advocate who is
(00:22):
one of the most wonderful people to run into in
any room and has some of the most exceptional taste
in the material she chooses to work on. She has
been nominated for Best Supporting Actress in a Drama Series
for the Critics' Choice Awards Outstanding Supporting Actress in a
Drama Series for the NAACP Awards.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Anne has won.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Back to back Outstanding Drama Ensemble Awards at the SAG Awards,
all for her incredible work as Beth Pearson on NBC's
series This Is Us. She has worked across Broadway, film, television,
and she is back on screen in Shondaland's brand new
(01:02):
show The Residence. She's here today to talk about what
it's like to work in the world of Shonda alongside
Uzu Aduba, and what it's like to make a show
revolving around a murder mystery in the White House. We
will touch on some of her lessons about following your passion,
trusting your calling, and finding your voice as an artist,
(01:25):
and I'm excited to ask her about what she thinks
present day Susan would have to say to nine year
old Susan. Let's dive in, Susan, I'm so so happy
(01:47):
to have you on the show today. How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I am good? How are you? I'm great?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You are one of those people to begin that I
have to say in the last I mean, don't know
what time really is, you know, post pre lockdown. Everything's
kind of melting right, but right it feels like five years,
which means maybe it's been ten. But like since you
and I have been running into each other at things.
Anytime I see you in a room, I'm always like, ah.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Ah, so sweet. I love that. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
You're a beautiful talent, but you're such a genuine human
and it was really fun, you know, having grown up
with some of the folks that you did, this is
us with to feel very familiar with some of you
and then get to meet so many more of you,
Like just seeing y'all in rooms, having that experience, you know,
(02:41):
getting your flowers, like giving everybody a family to come
home to on TV. I just I loved it. So
I'm yeah, I'm just thrilled to be with you today.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
This is so lovely and I love like you said,
you know, you do these shows, and you do all
these circuits, and you know what it is, right, and
you meet up people as you go, and you're trying
to like make connections or hope for connections, and you
want to be sort of as genuine as possible and
meet people who are, you know, sort of like minded
(03:13):
and things like that. And sometimes the business feels like
the thing that connects us all. But it's really lovely
when we get like sit and really know each other
as people and know a little bit more about one another.
So I just I love this. I'm so happy to
be here and just explore for a bit, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, me too. And I am so absolutely in love
with new show and I have a million things I
want to ask you about it. But before we before
we jump into present, I like to go back with
people because I think, you know, as as an interviewer,
I kind of get to be in the role of
audience too, right, And like I sit across from people
(03:51):
who are at these beautiful crossroads, who are doing these big,
amazing projects and who have crazy stories, and I like
to think about it before you were you know, a
household name or on a billboard?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Who were you?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
And I wonder if the adult woman that you are today,
like you got to go to the park we were
both talking about loving outside of New York earlier and
run into yourself at nine or ten, Like, if you
got to be face to face with that that little
version of you, do you think you'd see things about
(04:27):
who you are today in her? Or do you think
her mind would just be totally blown at what your
life is as a grown up?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
You know? You know she had big dreams.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah, you know what that'sen YEARL I think had big dreams.
And it's funny you say that because I think I
thought about that the other day. If if if I
would think that this is where I would be, or
would it look different or how you know, would I
(05:02):
find this? Would it feel like the success I thought
that looked like as a young person, you know what
I mean, like those in that age range, because when
you I've always wanted to act, so you know, I
think I always thought of.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
And back then it was like a big deal.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
If I would have gotten like a commercial or like
if I was a voice on a cartoon, or like,
you know, just anything that would kind of put me
in that space and that realm and all that kind
of stuff. And so I think about what I've had
the good fortune to do at this time, and I
think one of the biggest things that changes for me
(05:42):
is probably.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Just the perspective on it.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
You know. I think there's something like, when you're younger,
you don't understand the work that goes into what it
takes to do those things that you dream about. You
don't understand what that journey is really going to be.
And some part of that is fortunate, because maybe a
lot of us wouldn't sign up for it if we
(06:08):
knew all of the bumps and bruises and you know,
hills and valleys and all the things. But I guess
my main hope is that, yeah, she would be proud
of what we've done together, because so much of it,
for me is based on what young me wanted, you
(06:30):
know what I mean, And so much of what I'm
fulfilling now is based on what I really wanted back then.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So there's a lot of connection there. It's not like,
you know, I always thought I was going to be
a doctor, and.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Then suddenly and then you know, I think a lot
of that, but it's connected to who I am as
an artist, but also I think as a person, I
see similarities and I see differences. I definitely see the
side of me that was, you know, very very sort
(07:02):
of forward presenting and very passionate and all of those things,
and aside of me that wanted to people please, or
the side of me that wanted to be to maybe
be liked or accepted, and all of those things. And
I think a lot of a lot of those things
have gone away, which is a great thing to happens
as you get older.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You're like, I don't care, But.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I also think that the passion and and all of
and wanting to take space in the world is still
is still there, and so I feel like we would
have still have that very much in common. It's funny
as we're saying this, I'm like seeing myself on like
a swing set with my younger. It's all getting very
and very like poetic and metaphorical in my mind.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
As we talk about it.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
But it is a beautiful thing to be able to
think of and think like I honored a lot of
the things that I.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Wanted to be even as I was a child totally well.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
And there's something that there's something I like about pondering
this with people because you know, I think part of
our job as artists is to be willing to be
vulnerable in the human condition, right to take failures and
fears as well as you know, love stories and all
the all the good things. But I think when you
(08:24):
do the work to kind of dig in so often,
you you know, you get into your adulthood and you
start to figure out the younger selves you carry with you,
and especially the younger selves you kind of reparent or
you you give wisdom to about something scary or hard
that happened to you that you didn't have then.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And I like also being able to have that visualization,
that swing set moment for the for the joyful stuff,
for like the really good things, you know, the points
of pride that you would probably share with your younger
self and say, this thing you've dreamt of, it's going
to happen. You know, it's a lot different, but it's
going to happen. Right, That's really special. Did you when
(09:09):
you talk about how you're honoring that younger version of yourself,
did you always know that you wanted to be this
kind of artist that you wanted to be a performer,
because I know you went to Howard and got your
MFA at NYU. You know you were you were pursuing
the arts even through your student years. But did you
(09:29):
know as a little kid that you wanted to do this?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, wow, I know from the time I was three
that I wanted to do it. So yeah, yeah, from
the time I was three. Yeah, Like I can remember
like being on my bed and had a little talk
with God and was like, what.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Do you want to be?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
And I was like, I want to be an entertainer.
And I remember just banging my legs against the bed.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And being like yeah. I was like, well that's what
you'll be.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And I was like right, And then I remember like
making these little like what I feel like.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Was the first reality television applause.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
It certain applause here because I would walk out of
my brother and I my younger brother and I shared
a bedroom in Brooklyn, right My two older brothers shared
another bedroom. And I remember walking out of that bedroom
and going into the living room and family was in
the living room, okay, and whatever what they were talking about,
(10:29):
whatever's happened in that living room. They don't know, but
I'm walking into it as like this version of myself
that's being filmed.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Okay, oh wow, And.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Whatever's happening in this living room is the scene. And
I'm walking in and I'd have the scene with them,
whatever it was, and I'd do my little thing and
make whatever that reality was into something, go back into
my room and have a confessional and talk to an
imaginary camera and be like, oh, did you see what
just happened with my brother? Like what do you think that?
(11:03):
And I would have a whole dialogue about it.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
And I did this all the time. You know, this
is something I remember, like I did this often.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
It's like you were starting in the show. You were
producing the show, you were your own camera operator, you
were writing the show, was.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Leading people towards certain conversations, and you know, just like ridiculous, right,
and and I just anything that I could do to
try to do, you know, something in that way.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I wasn't in art school. I wasn't doing any of
that stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
So anything that kind of that kind of led me
there was was what I was doing.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
So then what was the what was the kind of
collegiate process for you? Like you know, going after an
MFA and then graduating and starting you know, pounding the
pavement as we do, like going in during pilot season
all the things. What did that kind of period look
like for you?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
It was not as glorious as I thought it would be.
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I got out of school and I remember thinking, I
want to go straight into a Spike Lee film, or
I want to you know, be in the next you know,
whatever was big, and I felt like for me it
started to the reality hit of like being called in
(12:22):
or not being called into auditions. It's funny. I just
recently did play at the Lincoln Center called Blood Quilt,
and Daniel Sweet is the casting director over there, and
I asked him if he remembered, and thank god he
didn't remember. One of my first things I did out
of school was bussed into an audition that I was
(12:42):
not invited to that Daniel was running. But I thought
I was right for it, so I went and I
was like, obviously this is an oversight. And he took
me aside and he was like, listen, I you know
I can dig it. You're like passionate about this, He
(13:02):
was like, but you cannot. I forget what they even
call it like, you cannot just, I don't know, bust
into an audition.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
That's it. You can't crash the audition.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
And not that I busted into somebody's room on the audit,
but like I came into the waiting.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Room like hit the sign in sheet.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, yeah, like you know, you're like a polite wedding
crashers my turn, but I do get a turn, right,
And so he was like no, Like there's people like
at a certain like he was like.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
No, you were not called in. So there's a part
of me. Sometimes I think about that version of me
and I'm like, oh, I miss that. Because one thing
that the business does it really can humble you in
a way that I found was good for me.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It helped me kind of.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Hone how to use my passion and how to like
focus on how to build these relationships so that I
wasn't just doing like you know, the I wasn't just
being the crasher, you know what I mean. I was
now sort of understanding more of what the protocols are
(14:16):
and not necessarily that I'm going to say all right, now,
let me go just by the rules. But I think
I had to understand a lot more about the business
and what we're in and in order to then be
my authentic self in it. I think a lot of
me just was you know, coming from my background by
you know, my cultural background, from the things that I
had learned in school and only thing you just saved
(14:38):
for it. And I had to really learn what that
process was. And it wasn't easy. Yeah, you can pound
the pavement, you grind, you do all the things, and look,
somebody might look at my journey and be like, well,
that was easier than mine, and you know, it just
depends on where.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
You were you were at in your own journey.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
But for me, my expectation for what I was looking
for right out of school was high, and I had
to learn that, oh, my path isn't like an instant one.
It's there's definitely more of a journey. I didn't walk
into a room and people necessarily went, she's a star,
(15:20):
you know what I mean. I didn't have that experience
of it. You know now now for the you know,
in more recent years, the kinds of reactions that I
wanted when I walked into a into an audition room
are much different than I had in the.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Past, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Or getting the offer, just having a meeting with the director.
All these things have changed, you know, so if everything
is so very different than what it was, but it
feels much more earned than an instant.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yes, well you know they they say it takes ten
years to become an overnight success.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
There you go, and you know it's funny.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I remember going by by that marker and being like, okay,
it's ten years.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, oh where is Like literally, I was so thoughtful
about this stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
And I study the business like I tend to look
at things, but it becomes like a study of those things,
you know, Like I'm not just reading about like reading
the trades. I kind of study like, oh, look at
the patterns and things and how people's careers go and
you know what led to this and why you know,
why did they choose that film over this. That's the
producer mind in me is working at the same time,
(16:40):
and so there is something to even things like ten
years to make a start that I held onto those things,
and I would watch people's trajectories career and I would see,
like who really dropped in at their ten year mark?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Who like did that?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Who sort of is somebody that I can kind of
track and see how they created a success for themselves,
just so that I always had some kind of model
to go by, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And now a word from our sponsors who make the
show possible. When you talk about that, when you talk
about the way that you study things like what's some
(17:32):
of the inside baseball that you've seen? What do you
look for? Because I think so many I know I'm
having the feeling, but I know people listening are like,
what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Say more?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Maybe I could give an example of if there is
an actor who is maybe early on in their career
and and you see, Okay, no, this is something that
I'm looking at. Now, let me give you something that
I'm looking at now. So people who I look at,
(18:06):
people who sort of created roles for themselves and because
that's a lane that I am really starting to get
into now and or re explore now because of something
I thought about a lot in the past, but really
looking to re explore now. And have created these these
(18:27):
lanes for themselves. And I watch how they created the
work for themselves and then they and through that they
gained their own sort of audience and their own sort
of following.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And this isn't like and.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I'm not speaking like directly to like influencers or things
like thatm something about people who like created shows for
themselves or created characters.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
For themselves and do that kind of thing. And then
I watch as like, Okay, so now they have.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Their following, they have the thing that they created that
in turn inspired Hollywood to come knocking at their door
and say, okay, how can.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
We part here?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Then you look at did that partnership create success? What
they able to remain authentic to their brand within that
partnership that partnership once that thing happened, what did that
spawn as the next thing? And whether their next project
was successful or not. Did their fan they stick with them?
Did the people stick because they they they like whatever
(19:23):
it is they're bringing, They want to be along for
that ride. Does that person stay in one box? Do
they start to branch out into other things? And do
they start to work with other directors and other people
so that they have their brand plus you know, they
can be a part of this movie and a part
of that franchise. And you know, so I just watch
how people kind of build but also make opportunities for themselves.
(19:46):
So sometimes you'll have people who are like huge successes now,
but if you trace back, it's because they invested in themselves.
They said, you know, I want to do this project,
and if I hadn't done that, nobody would have hired me. Yes,
and you can't even imagine that now, like nobody you
know what I mean, You're huge, You know what I mean.
They started with the investment in themselves and the belief
(20:09):
and the courage to put to put those types of
projects out into the world. And you know, there's all
types that the people can reject and people can save
me things about you know, anything can happen. But also
I think they invested in that. No, they'll find their audience,
they will find the people that are looking for what
(20:32):
they're looking to give. So that's something that I mean
by studying, like I'll look at how how those things,
how those journeys are created.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I love that because what I'm hearing you say is
whatever the specific example is, what you're doing is identifying
the courage it takes to make something, how someone commits
to that vision, and then like what that might spark
in you when you say someone do something. I think
(21:03):
the beautiful thing about being excited for other people instead
of envious is you watch them do something and then
you go, oh my god, if they did that, what
if I could do this thing I've been thinking about.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I think it's something so wonderful about exactly what you said.
Envy is such a wasted emotion. I wish people would
get that like imprinted into their spirit.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
It is a waste of time.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah, look at that person and get And the flip
side of it is get inspired by it. Hope that
they do more. Hope it's something that it ignites something
in you that makes you want to be better, do better.
Lights a fire that says, oh, it's okay for me
to do that, you know. Hope that you keep having
sparks of beautiful light like that around you, that you're
(22:00):
always in the realm of creativity. You're always in the
realm of something beautiful happening.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Because when you're in a realm where you can.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Touch it, that means you can be it, you know,
and sometimes we just need that reinforcement. We already are it,
but you need the reinforcement to know that you.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Can be it.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
You know you can you are, you know, a human,
but when you become like a human being, a human
doing something. It's different when you can like start to
be it because b is more active.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It's an action, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And and I my hope is that in anybody watching
this that if they do feel that envy in anyway,
just to know that, you know, it's wasted time sitting
there because there is something in you that is so
incredibly unique. Everybody has the thing that nobody else has.
(22:55):
Everybody has it, you know, so just buying yours. I
used to tell people coached for a while and when
things were kind of still sort of in the with acting,
and you know, when things slow down and things get
a little still, I would like coach. And one of
the things I used to say to folks is like,
what's your superpower? And I would help them identify it
(23:16):
so that you know, when you walk into the room,
you have one, and just lean into that thing, you know,
and because that'll give you a certain confidence, you know,
a confidence to kind of and when you can hold
that with you when you walk into spaces, you will
I feel like any of that envy or jealousy and stuff,
(23:37):
you know, it begins to subside because you know you
have something to add, You bring something valuable to the table.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Just by being you. It's just your own authentic youth.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I love that, And it's kind of a recalibration, right,
instead of seeing yourself in competition as when you're losing
as more than or less than to say I am
also yes, yes, I mean what a shift?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
What a shift? And who's keeping score? Anyway? Like why
are you keeping school?
Speaker 3 (24:07):
It's like, really, the thing is, everything happens at different
times for everyone, and I find it's so much more
valuable to really get still and sort of figure out
where you can invest in yourself rather than invest time
tracking other people to sort of be chellous about what
they're doing, you know, you know what I'm saying, Like
(24:31):
I've sort of embraced the practice of like we're just
gonna look straight up at my own life, just what
I've got, and just pick out the things to be
grateful for and just what I have. I'm not looking
at no, just what do I have that I can
be incredibly grateful for in this moment? Tomorrow it'll be
(24:55):
in that moment, the next thing, it'll be in that moment.
But really and really get happy and really like invest
in getting excited about your life. Like practice actually getting excited.
There's there is something exciting to just like, oh, you know,
I'm gonna meet my friend today.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I love being with that friend, you know, to have
like this, you know, this coffee.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I'm gonna make this thing, this pancake that I saw
that they doing, like like the Graham It's like a
two ingredient pan gonna make it, you know what I mean.
Like there's an investment in the little things and get
excited about the little things. And once you start to
see all the little things in your life that you
can be excited about, I think that's such a better
(25:37):
a better focus than looking at other people. Because we
can also go about the adage of you never know
what somebody's going through anyway, you don't know what everybody
you don't know that you really want that you know,
you know, and.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
God, yeah, and God forbid you.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
You you you know, you don't ever want to also
put negative energy out toward people. You want people to thrive,
You want people to you know, to do well. I
think it's a reflection on all of us. I don't
see us so much as individuals. We're all a part
of this big collective, you know, and everybody has their
(26:15):
part to play and the collective. So if somebody's playing
their instrument really well, this doesn't mean you need their instrument.
It means you need to start tuning up yours, get
your rehearsal on, get your stuff together, and get your
instrument popping, because we need you.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
In the band.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yes, somebody is on the other side. I'll never forget
it was told to me this way. Someone is always
waiting on the other side of your obedience. So the
minute you say yes to the things that you are
being called to, the things that you feel like in
your purpose are a part of your journey. The minute
you say yes and you start really you know, pursuing
(26:53):
and achieving, there's somebody else waiting on the other side
to see that, to inspire their part of the journey,
their leg of it, you know. And so you don't
even realize, we don't even realize as human beings the
power there is and really stepping into where you're being
called to be.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's so powerful it resonates for everybody.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, well, because it has that ripple effect.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
It does.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. You know,
it's like the cliche is a cliche, right, it's a
phrase because it's so universally true that hindsight is twenty twenty.
Like you look back and you go, oh my god,
(27:39):
it all makes sense, the stress and the hardship, you know,
the thing that I thought went wrong, but really it
was going right for me. Like is it a wild
thing to now through the journey of your career, you know,
all the work that goes into the overnight success moment?
Is it wild to look back from this knowing how
(28:01):
this is us began for you, how best began for you?
Did you know what it meant? Or were you sort
of on the ride and couldn't believe where it went?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Like what does it look like?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Kind of in the rear view now.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
In the moment, I knew what it meant to take
bringing this character to life in a very three dimensional way.
I knew the importance of that. That's what I knew
in the moment.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I was like, look, you know, we.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Have this woman on screen that I have an opportunity
to really represent the every woman. You know, in representing
the every woman, she comes in my package, which is
a black woman. So I have the opportunity to show
(28:54):
who I know us to be, you know. And I
took that very seriously, and not seriously in a way
where I was walking around like I got to be no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I just knew what that was.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
And that went into any scene that I did or
anytime you know, Sterling and I played that there was
the resonance of we have to be true to who
we know these people are in the world. We have
to be really true to that so people understand and
(29:32):
get a new perspective and a deeper perspective, you know.
So to some people, I was preaching to the choir,
and to some people it was a very new experience
for them as an audience member. But that I knew
in the moment that I wanted to be a woman
that women identified with.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And so she's a very.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
She's very much a compilation of so many different women
in my life that I've experienced. That is in hindsight,
I she is really I you know, I hear all
the time the effect of that she had on people.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I hear about it all the time. I don't know
if I'll ever truly wrap my brain around that. I don't.
I don't know, and I don't I'm not.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Sure that it's necessarily for me too to wrap my
brain around.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I think I can only be grateful that that it landed, you.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Know what I mean with people and and I am
so grateful that people identified with who she is.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
But I didn't watch her in the same way as
an actor.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
When I'm watching my work, I'm watching for technical things,
I'm watching her.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
How do I get better? You know what it is?
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
So you know, you have to allow for it to
be for your audience, you know, and for them to
after a while, she's theirs. She's not really mine anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Well because in a way, you know, I think about
it's like a seesaw to me in my brain, that's
what comes. Like I think about this swing seat, but
then I think about the seesaw. We're just on the
playground today.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah sure.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
And like you bring all these women you know and
their experiences into the room with you, and especially the
experiences of women you know you haven't seen on camera
into the room with you. It's the privilege of being
I think, a woman and an actor, and it's so
compounded and so much exponentially larger as an audience member
(31:36):
and a fan to watch you do this as a
black woman, and as a black woman on a show
like this, and as a black woman on a show
like this married to Sterling K. Brown's character on a
show like this. Inside of the world of the show
like this, like, I just see the multiplication table, and interestingly,
it must be the most personal thing for you and
all these women you know you carry in the room
(31:57):
with you as Beth, And the minute Beth goes out
in the world, exactly as you're saying, she represents, I
would imagine that many women and that many stories and
that many family histories for everyone who watches her and
sees themselves or someone they love in her. And it's like,
in that way, it's almost like the multiplication table happens
(32:22):
out in the world.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, exactly, that's right.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
And you know it keeps going, but you can't possibly
know how big it is because you're not on that
side of the seesaw. But it's like, I remember conversations
I had with my best friend Nia when the show
was on and she you know, you guys started airing
and I was working on a show in Chicago, and
she'd come visit me from Detroit and we were opening
a business in Detroit. We opened a beautiful intersectional hair
(32:48):
salon together because we met in our twenties and we'd
go to award shows and we couldn't get our hair
done together, and we were like, well, the beauty industry's
racistem this is bullshit, right, And you know, in our
two ties we complained about it, and then in our
thirties we were like, oh, well, maybe we'll come up
with a way to fix it. And I remember like
sitting in the apartment one night, like taking her braids
(33:11):
out on the couch, watching you guys, and she was like, Beth,
care's a better speak on it. And we were just
laughing and we were like, it tickled me as a
woman who loves this like powerful, amazing black woman to
see her be so tickled by you. And then like
we're sitting in this moment like taking her braids out
(33:31):
and then talking about how amazing it is to see
you on this big network show as this woman with
her natural hair, Like it it hit us and all
around us and in our business and in our friendship
and like we were just two girls in Chicago watching
your show and you didn't know either one of us.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Then it's mess something It's so amazing the power of
what it means to like come into a living room
for people.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
You know, we know what that is. We we know,
you know. I can't name how many shows growing.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Up that you you know, I there are certain series
like when I rewatched them from growing up, like you know,
I get I get teary eyed.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
At the end because I feel like I grew up
with these people.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
You know, like they were in my my house, and
you know, and so to be able to do that,
if even if it's from anything to seeing a professional woman,
seeing a woman be you know, more than a mother
and a wife and try to find her own way
in the world, or even down to the hair, like
I remember when I started the show, there wasn't a
(34:36):
ton of doing natural.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Hair on TV happening at that time, and.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
I remember being a huge topic of conversation. But it
was one of those things, like I mentioned that I thought.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Well, in my.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Desire to keep her as authentic as I can imagine,
one of the things with black women, you can see
the hair switch up, like that's just part of the
for doing this authentically.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
This has to be kind of a part of this ride.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
And so it was definitely intentional on my behalf, but
it wasn't so thoughtful. I just thought like, oh, you
know what part of the authors see authenticity is going
to be her changing up her hair, Like that just
has to be there, you know what I mean. So
it wasn't like this major, but I understood the effect
that it did have for those watching it because I
(35:30):
can't imagine either, Like if I was, you know, like
on the other side of that, I'd been like, wait,
they don't let us do that.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
You know what I'm saying, Like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
But I was so grateful to be in a space
that that that type of again authentic journey was welcomed.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
And nobody contested it.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Nobody said, oh, you know she needs to nobody said anything.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Nobody said anything. So as long as nobody said no,
I just kept saying okay, and every week okay.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
And then somebody told me that Dan one time was
in the editing room because you know, she was really
switching it up. And and I remember one time Dan
was in the editing room and somebody told me that
Dan was like, oh, I can't wait to see what
best Hair is doing this week. Yeah, and yeah, this
(36:18):
is Dan Fogelman who created the show. For everybody who's listening,
it's you know who's now working with Thirling on Paradise.
Just a really powerful showrunner and creative has given us
so so much amazing work. And Dan was just one
hundred percent down with it. So that it also helps
when the environment is inviting you to do the thing
(36:40):
that you feel best advocates for your for your character.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, and it's interesting, right, Like, I know a lot
of people make a lot of money on the internet,
making it seem like how we allow people to be
fully themselves or fully considered is too much effort for
society instead of awesome, right. And it's like, I like,
(37:05):
I love the way you're talking about it because on
the one hand, it's just authentic. It's just who this
woman is. It's who so many women you know are.
It's actually not rocket science for the production, it's not
hard on anybody. But what it is when it's just
allowed to be part of the daily journey of someone
and be simply that is so transformative for people who
(37:26):
see it who've never gotten to see it.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
So it's like it's not rocket science, but it is
major in terms of what it becomes on screen.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
I agree. Sorry, I just.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Love that you were in an environment where it got
to be both. It got to be the most casual,
obvious thing so that it could go out in the
world and be powerful.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
I remember being in front of we were doing a
panel with the people with journalists from the Golden Globe,
and I remember asking, has anyone in the room seen
a couple like.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Randlen Beth, like a black couple of the way that
we were being.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
And in that Hope Pannel, which was at least maybe
about how many people were in that room, maybe twelve
to fifteen or something, but from all over the world,
there's just one person raised their hands and I was like, oh,
you know, so it was something like I said, it's
something that for some people it's like, yeah, totally we
(38:29):
get this, and for some people it's like, oh wow,
this is so there's there.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
That's the power of what.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
We get to do and and the medium we get
to use to do it, because it can just it's
in your home, turn on the TV's there.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, it's beautiful and you and Sterling did God. I
just I love watching you both work as actors. You know,
I think about on that show and I think about
your new show and his new show that you just mentioned, Like,
I love watching y'all. But the the o bond and
affection and safety you two had together as performers, like
(39:06):
it just radiated from the screen. I imagine it's it's the
most special thing to get to make something like that.
I work with your friend, and it's got to be
hard when it's time to go, right, Like, is it
bittersweet to watch Paradise now and be like, God, he's
so good, but.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I miss him. You know, we got to visit each other.
It's so funny. I was shooting on one line, he
was shooting across the street on the other. No, So yeah,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
So I went over there one time, I think when
I was having lunch or something.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Are we trying to do or maybe I.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Had just finished it, whatever it was, I went over
And the amazing thing is that so many people who
shot on This is Us they rehired the same crew.
They rehirea directors. Yeah, they're high, you know, hair and makeup,
you know, all those people were there. Cool of of course,
(40:03):
Sterling of course, and and Dan and at the time John,
John and Glenn were directing Who and they directed John
Rink gn Glenn Fakarr. They directed our first episode of
This Is Us. So they were essentially the ones that
got me hired onto This US because they were they
(40:23):
were the first directors that I had auditioned for, and
they brought me back into the you know, the final,
the test and all of that. But they they are
fantastic directors and so it was just a whole reunion set.
It really was just like the best reunion. Yeah, yeah,
(40:46):
it was great.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
And now for our sponsors, well, and it's not lost
on me that you went from and I love that
the family continues, right, like the family moves in to
this other space. But you went from a big, you know, familial,
well oiled machine into Shondaland right like Susan, the Residence
(41:10):
is so good.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
It is so great.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
I loved the script when I read it. I am
so in love with the show and the cast and
the pacing and the music and the It's like it
feels like a play and and and like what I
wanted Clue to be. But never was no shade to
anybody who made that movie back in the day, Like,
oh my god, it's it's Poirot. It's all these amazing,
(41:35):
juicy stories and you all are so good, Like how
did this happen? Were you were you freaked out about
like the size of the Shonda World? Did you know
anybody before? Like, tell me, tell me how the residence
came to be?
Speaker 2 (41:54):
You know, I.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Remember my agent told me about it. He first told
me about it and sort of like our group meeting
with everyone that my whole team, you know, and that
was one of the projects that they had discussed. And
then I remember him coming back to it and I
was in London at the time doing a play at
the Old Vic and they said, yeah, you know, look
(42:18):
they're looking at you, you know, for this role of Jasmine,
So give it a read and let us know what
you think. And I called them back within within ten
minutes because I looked.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
At it right away, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
And I called hi back within ten minutes like I
did like page fifteen, and I was like, yeah, sign
me up.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Whatever.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
And then I came back to New York a month
later because I remember I traveled.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
I went to South Africa for the first time. I
did it like a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
And I came back and they were like, yeah, they
want to set up this meeting with you. And so
I met with Paul William Davies, who's the amazing writer,
who just the extraordinary writer. He wrote all eight episodes.
And I met with Betsy Bears, the fabulous Betsy Beers,
and well, actually Betsy wasn't in that meeting, so it
(43:07):
was Paul and Alison who were.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
In that meeting. Wonderful Alison.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
I and and then I had to meet with Betsy
the next day because she was unable to make that meeting.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
And Betsy, as you know, is Seanda's partner. And and
I just when I got in the meeting.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Listen, it's kind of like that that audition crasher I
told you about the second day. She walked into that meeting, like, look,
I don't know what's going on, but I read this scrip, honey,
and this is amazing. You know.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I just was so lit up by this project, so
lit up.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Yes, I was like, whatever you guys need, you know, whatever,
I just I want you to have because this project
is incredible.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
I would love to be a part of this thing.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
I it's it's playing for me in my head like
a movie already. But I think I just was so
excited to meet who was behind it, and like it
was just very exciting to me. I don't know, it
didn't feel like anything like you know, sometimes those things
can feel tense or you know, like you have nerves
(44:20):
or something. I didn't feel anything like that. I was
just so excited by the material. I just thought it
was fun. It just all of it just felt really
amazing and just sort of like I just had so
much love for it.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I think I led with that.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Than anything else. And we just had the amazing conversation
about it. And again then next day I met with
Betsy and we just had an amazing conversation. And the
great thing about Stondaland is like, Wow, they get some
amazing people to work for them and with them, I
should say, they are just an incredible team over there,
(44:55):
and it's really inspiring the way they put people together
and how they lift people up, you know, in their
in their own journeys as writers or as actors, as
you know, behind the scenes. They make sure you know,
crews are respected and that things are as diverse as possible,
and that people get as much opportunity as possible. So
(45:16):
it has been just such a wonderful, wonderful ride with Chaplin. Yeah,
to leave, you know, that's the space of this is
us space, and going to that space was really kind
of amazing, and it felt very correlated in a way
because it was very similar in terms of the type of.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
The type of people I was working with. It's just
really good people.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Good people, and it's and it is it's a level,
it's it's it's rare air, you know. And I've thought
about you guys so much as I've been watching the
show since the premiere, because while it's in my you know,
every couple of days I get to another episode moment
in life. I've been working on Grays this season, and
(46:04):
let me tell you something like walking onto that set,
I went, oh, I see, yeah, this this is exactly
the kind of place I want to come to work.
The way people respect each other, the way people will
speak to each other, the both efficiency that exists so
(46:25):
that you can be patient with the work.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Like it it's rare.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, And oh man, there's there's something very special that
the Shondaland enterprise does. And I feel like it comes
through on screen like I'm watching you all, and the
pacing and the cuts and the there's always something bubbling
under the surface, and it feels so exciting and it
(46:51):
feels very sparkly.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
I think when I think of Shondaland, I think of sparkly,
don't you. Yes, Like it's it just feels like you are.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Watching TV through like champagne. Yeah, it's just the best.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
There's just glitter on it.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
It's just Yes, there's just something shiny about it, and
you just want to jump into the screen and be
with them. And the stories are compelling and they make
you want to It's the best page turn. It just
makes you want to turn the page and go to
the next and go to the next, and and so yeah,
I've binged so many Shonda shows, as as everybody else has,
(47:33):
you know. So the minute I knew that I was
going to Shondaland, I yeah, I was on like, yeah,
the first ticket out of here, and I was like, yes,
I will be there.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
And how did you guys? How is it as a unit?
You know? I think about this world you're inhabiting. I
think about how how Uzo's character comes in as this detective,
how everybody's got to build out the kind of political
apparatus of the White House around it, and the show
is at the same time very serious and very funny.
(48:08):
It's a murder mystery, but it's funny. How did you
all figure out how to to pull the strings of
getting the tone just right?
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Paul was very specific about the tone. He knew what
he wanted it to be. He was very.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
It was written into it musically, I think, and rhythmically.
His tone was written into the script. He was very
hands on about it. So I don't think we were
ever at a loss necessarily for like where we at
and what's the tone.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
I think in the very beginning we had.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
To figure it out, you know, those first first week
or so. But once we were into it and we
got it, I think it was there. And like I said,
it was something that I know all was very clear
about from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
But it's it's it's fun.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
And one of the things that caught us the most,
or caught our attention the most, was that you really
had to play against a lot of some of the
jokes in order for it to be funny in a
way that's funny that doesn't like wear.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
You out, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Like if very dry yeah, if you do it try,
then you can kind of keep that going for a while.
But if everybody's like huge, you know what I mean,
it can get like oh shouts, it's a lot, you know.
So I think that there was something really smart about
One of the things they said was just play it
very straight, play straight, you know, and just let it
(49:43):
be there. Let the comedy be there. And I love
comedy like that. I love comedy where you kind of
don't see, like everybody's just being and it.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Just me so don't I don't like that embarrassing, like dumb,
anxious comedy. I like I like this sort of intellectual almost.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I don't want to say it's a British dryness because
it's a very American show, but it has been a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Yeah, isn't that that is a very kind of British thing, though.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Isn't it. Yeah? It's yeah, it has that. It's it's witty,
you know.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
And and it's it's.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Smart and it's dry.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
And then sometimes it's just straight up you know, you
have characters in there like the Third Man and you're
just like, oh, that's.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Just straight up comedy, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
So there's so many different ways I think it can go,
but I I know that it's very grounded by by
Uzzo's Cordelia Cup, which is a beautiful, beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
You know, it's so much fun to watch her play
this character.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Because you know, it's just watching people play. Was one
of the joys.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
Of being on the show is you could be in
a scene and there are like, you know, there might
be like twelve people in the scene with you right now,
and you might not be speaking, but as I'm watching,
you know, whoever is speaking, I'm biting.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
The inside of my cheek.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
I'm just trying to like hold it together because I
want to laugh, you know, like really when I was like, oh,
that was.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Funny, you know, and I'm such a.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Fan of comedy, so to see that firsthand and in person,
and then and I also feel like Uzo has such
great instincts, you know, Ramdall has such great in There's
people can Marino, There's people just with such great instinct
Molly Griggs, I just go on and on. Their instinct
is just has a bit of a comedic bend to it.
(51:49):
So even sort of the most mundane things can be
just really funny.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
I love that, and the set must be breathtaking, because
for the whole first episode, I'm sitting there being like,
I've I've spent some time what an insane sentence, like
my nine year old self would geek, I've spent some
time in the house, And like I'm looking at the
set and then the sort of three D model of
(52:14):
the back when the back wall comes up, it's so impressive.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
Oh wow, wow, how many.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Like how many sound stages? Is it just the biggest
craziest set you've ever worked on?
Speaker 3 (52:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (52:28):
It was.
Speaker 3 (52:29):
I think somebody asked me today like was it How
did you do the various levels? And you know, some
things were built on a bit more of like an
elevation so that you can come downstairs or you can
go upstairs and you can do those types of things,
and then some things were just on the just on
(52:51):
a flat level and created to feel like you were going.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Up and downstairs.
Speaker 3 (52:56):
But I felt, I knew whenever I was in there,
it just really put you in the middle of the
White House, like you just I've never been inside the
White House, But after so many people who have been
came back and told us it was eerily the exact
(53:19):
copy even down to the like the square footage in
certain areas and things like that. So I I really,
you know, heads off to our design team because it's
it's really an incredible feat because.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
People watch it and think you didn't shoot that in
the White House.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah, you're like, we literally do that. Well, what can
we expect from season two? I am just so excited
for more of this show.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
I you know, I I'm we're waiting to hear and
I'm yeah, And I'm not sure what Paul is up
to for season two, but I would be really excited
to know.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
I knew, I do know.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
That if and when they announced the season two I
know he would be very ready for when. I'm trusting
that He's just so brilliant. But I'm thankful that people
want a season two. It's been you know, it's so
fun to you know, hear people's response to the show.
And and and let me tell you something, in a heartbeat,
(54:21):
they call.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Me up, I'm there for sure, Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Oh. I love that. I know. I know we've hit
our time. I feel like I could spend all day chatting.
We're gonna have to do this in New York in
person soon.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
Oh, amazing. I love it.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
I would just love it. But I will part with
my favorite and final question to ask people, which is
just from here, And it can be a personal thing,
a professional thing, a little mix of both. What feels
like you're working progress as you look out at the
rest of your year and what's coming.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
I think, be brave, be bold.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
I think that's the work in progress.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Be brave, be.
Speaker 3 (55:06):
Bold, because I feel like that calls me into things
that I may not be as familiar with, things that
will make you a little fearful because you don't know
(55:28):
what it is or you're not sort of super comfortable.
But also just if I'm going to do it, be
brave about it and also be bold about it, like
do it in a really step out And I think
that is call for twenty twenty five and this is
(55:51):
a really great year for that with everything going on
in the world, you know, is to face it, sort
of face it with your fearful or not just face
it and be bold about facing it.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
I love that. Yeah, So that mm hmmm, That's what
I'm going to carry beautiful.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Well, thank you so much. I'm I'm just so happy
to have spent the morning with you and so thrilled
that you've brought me my next newest favorite show. So
thank you for the personal I am the entertainment okay,
and I want.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
To watch you on Grace. Yeah, yah yay. I love
that we're we're in it.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
You have a beautiful rest of your day.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Thank you.
Host
Sophia Bush
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