Work in Progress: Symone Sanders-Townsend

The presidential race is heating up, and who better to discuss all the latest developments than a former White House political strategist and co-host of MSNBC's "The Weekend."

Symone Sanders-Townsend and Sophia discuss Joe Biden’s withdrawal from the 2024 election, Tim Walz being announced as the VP pick, and Donald Trump's recent comments questioning Kamala Harris' race.

Plus, Symone talks about her incredible journey to the White House, from being the youngest presidential press secretary to becoming the first Black woman to serve as a spokesperson for a Vice President. She also reveals the advice she got from VP Harris when she decided to leave her office to pursue a new career.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress with Smarties.
It has been a very big couple of weeks for
those of us who believe that all things around us

(00:23):
in the world are influenced by politics, and thus the
progress of politics is important to us. Newsflash true for
every single one of us. So I decided, after last
week's announcement that Vice President Harris has picked Governor Tim
Walls as her vice presidential pick in her presidential campaign,
to call one of the smartest people that I know

(00:44):
in the world of politics, none other than Simone Sanders
Town's End. Simone's show The Weekend on MSNBC is one
of the places I always turned to to get incredible
coverage on what's happening in the country. Simone rose to
prominence and tent sixteen as the national press secretary for
US Senator Bernie Sanders then presidential campaign. At just twenty five,

(01:07):
she became the youngest presidential press secretary on record, and
she was named to Rolling Stone magazine's list of sixteen
young Americans shaping that year's election. At twenty nine, she
published her book No You Shut Up, Speaking Truth to
Power and Reclaiming America. And then she served as a
senior advisor for President Joe Biden's twenty twenty presidential campaign.

(01:28):
She spent an incredible amount of time working as a
senior member of the Biden Harris administration. She served as
Deputy Assistant to the President, senior advisor in chief, spokesperson
to Vice President Kamala Harris, and all around. Simone is
an incredible communicator with a passion for problem solving and
social justice. She happens to be one of my favorite

(01:48):
friends in Washington, d C. Who've been lucky enough to
travel the country with doing everything from election organizing work
to speaking at the Institute of Politics at Harvard. She's
genuinely the most fun friend and the most inspiring political brain.
And today she's here to answer all of our questions
about this election. Nothing is off the table, and for

(02:12):
that I am so grateful. Also worth mentioning for those
of you who might be in Brooklyn in September, MSNBC
Live is hosting an event called Democracy twenty twenty four
on September seventh at the Brooklyn Academy of Music. Tickets
are available now. I am really hoping I can attend.

(02:32):
Do not miss it if you are in the area. Okay,
let's get to asking all of the twenty twenty four
election questions and then some inspiring ones too. To our
sweet dear friend.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Sam up.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Well Simone, my favorite lady, thank you so much for
joining me today, and honesty, thank you for taking the
time in the middle of August from Martha's vineyard, because
I know you'd rather be on the beach, but we
have democracy to talk about. So bless you for giving
me an hour of your time. And all the folks.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Oh, of course, it's the least I could do. It's
always good to see.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
You, Hi, honey. How is life? How's your man? How
how are you? Before we get into like the state
of the world, life is good.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
My man is good. He was also on Martha's vineyard,
but he has since gone back to work. It's good.
Life is good. You know, this is just an extraordinary time.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, I mean, I was supposed to be in the
We take a trip every year in the summer for.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Our anniversary, and we're supposed to be in the Bahamas
this year.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Is one of our favorite places to go, and the
day we were supposed to leave for the Bahamas, we
decided to stay because that was the day when it
became clear that all of this stuff was bubbling up,
like you're not out on that said, he wasn't going
to be in the race anymore. That Sunday we were
supposed to be leaving like Monday night, Tuesday morning. No way,
So we did not go. But it his Those are

(04:03):
the kinds of things like this. Yeah, oh knew, Sophia.
I thought you was like a couple of months ago,
a couple months ago, I did not car by.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
The way, when we were all in DC together in April,
and you know, we watched the President take the stage
at the Correspondence Centner, it was, I mean, what a
swirl of emotion. You know, we were talking about Evan
and all of the other journalists wrongly imprisoned around the world.
Britney Griner and her wife were there talking about you
know what these prisoner swaps look like and advocating for

(04:33):
Evan's freedom. The President crushed, you know, all of his
jokes like and I don't mean this as shade against
Colin Jos. I think he's very funny and he did
a great job. I thought the President was funnier, which
you know says a lot and and yet by July
here we are. Can you can I just ask you
like some non non political speak opinions, like real talk,

(04:57):
because now there's people out here being like, well, he
must have been well and this was a scheme, and
you know, the word the internet has turned into a
conspiracy theory cesspool. But like you, you have worked for
so many incredible elected officials. You have worked in the
Biden administration for a very long time. You know, closely
with the President, closely with Kamala Harris. You know the

(05:18):
ins and outs of this group who is actually working
on preserving our democracy in the face of fascism. How
do you just human to human walk us through what
what did the summer look like? Where does the shift
come from? How does a president make a decision like that?

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Can you?

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Can you let the lay people in on the realities
of it?

Speaker 2 (05:40):
You know?

Speaker 3 (05:41):
It was so I have I have seen the President
a number of times over the last couple of months,
and I literally saw him at the White House's June
teen celebration and I was sitting we had a chance
to speak with he and the VP and the second
Gillumpman prior to and then I I was sitting right
behind him.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
We were all turning around.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
JiTT and Chatten and so you know this, I really
think this notion of the president being unwell is something
that did start, as I like to say, in the
bowels of the internet, but had made its way into
mainstream conversation to the point where people who like the president,
who are supportive of him, who are you know, Democrats

(06:22):
their whole lives, will say, oh, but he must not
be well. I see the signs. Everybody want to be
you know, a doctor off webmbu, you know, every every
other day, depending on who.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
You talk to. But I would just say, you know,
Joe Biden is still.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
The president, right and so he is the president until
January twenty, twenty twenty five. And so I this notion
that if he was on, if Joe Biden was unwell,
knowing him the way that I know him, he would
tell us. He would tell us, because health is not
something to play with. But let me just that back up.
This notion that the president was maybe too old, if

(06:55):
you will, to run for reelection is something that they're
that voters, number of voters across the country thought it
was something that there were folks who were elected officials.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
In Washington, d C.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
They this was something I would hear elected officials strategies say.
And some people might say, Okay, well that's an ageous
argument because you know, Donald Trump is not for three
years younger than Joe Biden. Look at people like Nancy
Pelosi and Jim Clyburn, and I'm thinking of Bevy Smith
who always talks about it gets greater later. And you

(07:27):
know Mika Brazinski has the forty the fifty over fifty
list and.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Always talks about things, you know, your second wave of life.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
And so I understand this notion that it is a
It was an agist remark to make an agency to
say that, like, oh he there should be he's too
old to be to run for president again because.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
He's doing the job right now and was doing it.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
I would I would argue very very well, I mean,
the people that just came home the hottest situation like that, but.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, it was real.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
It was real, and people's perception is reality. And if
people perceive, if their thoughts, that was their reality. And
you just supposed those very real thoughts and feelings that
folks had with the fact that they maybe didn't see
the president enough in organic situations. I think that he
is really great at a town hall or uh in
people people scenarios and in these random off the record

(08:22):
stops that aren't previously announced. But he pops into a
space in place and sits there and talks with people
and answers their questions.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
I don't think he's always as great on a prompter. Right.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
There are some people that just say they they exude
more good stuff when they.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Are organically in the mix and not on a teleprompter.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
I think a lot of Americans were seeing Joe Biden
through the filter of the teleprompter and looking and being
and the duties of the president.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Can I also say something that I think which you
know you you are a wildly professional administration person. Maybe
you can't say this, but I'm gonna go ahead and
offer my thoughts. The entire time I watched that debate,
I was like, I wouldn't know how the fuck to
respond to this.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Either.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
This is nonsense. This man is nonsensical. He's not even
saying things. First of all, he's not saying anything that's true,
like Trump is just straight up up there lying. Nobody's
fact checking the guy. Of course, the president is looking
at him like, what the how do I even which
insane thing you just said? Do I pick to respond
to first?

Speaker 2 (09:23):
But so Fia.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
But the double standard is very real for these two men.
And to your point, perception does shape reality. And while
it is undeniable, this is not an opinion, this is
not an emotion. This is on paper, fact, data, policy,
historic investment. Joe Biden is the most effective president we
have had in America for either party in over sixty years.

(09:50):
Thank God for the American Rescue Act, thank God for
the Infrastructure Bill, which, by the way, all the GOP
folks who voted against her are out bragging about the
investments they got made.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Literally, we need to make sure we keep the energy
credits because that's what's Republicans were like, Look, would they
sent a letter to Mike Johnson and they want to
keep the energy credits because that has spurred business development
in their district.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah, it's almost like the Democrats know what they're doing.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
Your assessment of the debate is not wrong, Like, yes,
Donald Trump was saying and saying like is that anybody
would be like, well, what is going on?

Speaker 2 (10:22):
But the problem is it's not just anybody.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Joe Biden as the president who planned and prepares for this,
he knew his team wasn't.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
The debate and the debate performance it was.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
It was bad, Like there's the only way to say
the performance was bad. But baked into that performance from
other people, again, the perception that they had is that, oh, well,
I thought he was too old in.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
General, he seemed a little office mark.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Maybe he wasn't well he would maybe he didn't feel
good that day, which he said he was. He had
a cold, and so all of that that played into
what people already thought, and they see the debate performance
and like, oh, he's gone up for the job now, I.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Frankly do not believe.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
And I might be in the in the in the
small here, but it is not my belief that that
debate performance should have led to where we are now.
And I say that knowing and respecting and having deep
love for Joe Biden and knowing you're respecting and having
deep loved for Vice President Harrison.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
I've had a range of emotions over when that.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Week that everything went down, because I have had the
privilege of knowing and working for them both.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yes, but the faux pas here and this is this
that you gotta.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
To handle your politics, and the people around the president
did not handle.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
His politics as well as they should have.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
What I mean by that is there are members of
Congress who called up the White House the day after
the debate and they said, oh, it was bad, and
we da da dah, I want to talk to the
president blah blah blah, and they were rebuffed. They said,
it's fine. The people at the White House said it
was fine. The folks, some of the folks on the
campaign said don't worry about it. And those members of
Congress specifically, they felt like that the campaign apparatus around

(11:58):
the president, the people closest to him, and even the
President himself, given what he said close debate. I mean
he was at the waffle house looking great, by the way, Okay, yes,
but saying, oh, it's hard to debate a liar, Yes, sir,
it is. But let's say I didn't have a good
knight and we didn't get to I didn't have a
little more a.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Week later, yes, And I think by the time he arrived.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
To that point, the cake was already baked on.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
The people that wanted to orchestrate his demise.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Very well, said I like that phrase, I'm going to
borrow that and credit you. The cake was already baked, yeah, regardless.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
But it was a decision, yes it was. It was
an untenable position.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
I mean they made it unable, so it was like
he could have though, decided to bike it. Heals in
and say sure, I'm the president. Fourteen million people voted
for me, and I'm staying in this race. But Joe
Biden is a good man. Frankly, he's a better person
than maybe.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
All of us.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
I agree and listen to have done again, no emotion here,
just the data, to have done more for this country
than any other president in sixty years, and to be
handed for you know, I'll say, you can't sandwich. He
did the right thing. He did a valiant thing, He

(13:10):
did a kind thing. And look, I don't stand politicians,
to be clear, I don't think they're my heroes. I
admire public service. I admire it in the military, I
admire it in an elected office. I do not admire
the folks out here lobbying on behalf of the gun lobby.
But you know that's a whole separate piece of the pie.
Like people who want to dedicate themselves to make this

(13:31):
country better. I respect and admire, and that doesn't mean
I agree with everything. There are policies of the president
that I am not a fan of. There are a
lot more that I am a big fan of. And
at the end of the day, I think, if I
have learned anything from women who've been at this longer
than me, and particularly some of the black women in

(13:51):
my life who have been at this generationally like you,
I have learned that my thirst for immediate action and
evolution in our political sphere is at times childish. We
are working for longevity, We are working for the preservation

(14:12):
of generations. I would like us to be at utopia now,
but I know it's something we have to build, and
I know you have to be patient and invest. You know,
political action is not a sexy, one night stand. It
is a lifelong, cultivated marriage. And so as I sit
here and I think about how you continue to press
a country toward progress, how you don't let folks get

(14:36):
left behind or forgotten about anywhere in any class you know,
in any protected group or group that is not protected enough,
I know that that requires dedication and selflessness. So I'm
gonna go ahead and again say the thing that I
can say as a civilian, which is I think the
President was incredibly generous to look at the landscape of

(14:59):
the country and regardless of how I feel or what
I know about myself, it's not my time at this time.
And the surge of joy that we have been able
to watch with Vice President Harris stepping up and by
the way, being able to teut her incredible legacy thus far.
For whatever reason, vice presidents never get any credit for

(15:21):
anything that they're doing. But when you look at the list.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
I mean, it's not the job if you are a
vice president running around getting a bunch of credit.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
I agree. But she has done some very substantive and
historic work, from reproductive rights to working to stabilize Central
America with with you know, US partnership, and you know,
working on immigration despite the fact that the Republican's torpedo
the bipartisan immigration bill because Trump said so, which is psychotic.
But here we are, like, she has done incredible things,

(15:52):
and now we've got Coach Wallace in the group, and
it's like America Dad has come to hang out with
our favorite and I'm so happy. Tell us how you're feeling,
tell us what the temperature is, so I am feeling I.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Am feeling like this energy is amazing. But to be
very clear, we did not get to this moment.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
If on Joe Biden's way out of the race, he
doesn't say.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
Oh, when I endorse my vice president, Yes, because there
were a lot of people, a lot of people now
who are like oh, on the on the Kamala Harris train,
who were on the open convention train, and I'm.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Just I'm looking at these people like, oh, okay.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
And because he endorsed his vice president the president, he
when he originally told her to be his running mate, said,
I would believe she is ready on day one, and if.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
I am not able to be the president, I know
she's able to do the job. He carried that through all.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
When it mattered the most, he stood behind his vice
president that frankly stood with him, and Joe Biden is
in fact, because he did that, he was the bridge
that he promised us he would be.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
He was the bridge that he always said he wanted
to be apened the door and the service.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
And because Vice President Harris had been doing the work
this entire time, you know, much has been made. People
A lot of people had thoughts prior to you know,
her locking up the nomination and whatnot, saying oh, I
don't know if she's up for the challenge, she can
do it. And those people, in my opinion, had not
been paying attention to her for the last year and
a half, two years three. I mean, I just don't

(17:31):
think they've been paying attention. I think they let her
presidential campaign and how well it didn't do color what
they believed like they had a prison a filter on
and they could not see her for what they could
not see her in her work for what it truly was,
and that is in fact, transformational.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Serious.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
She has been a true governing partner to the president,
and she's happened that she enjoyed campaigning and people, and
I think that's coming true on the campaign trail.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
We'll be back in just a minute after a few
words from our favorite sponsors. People who wanted to ignore
her record have also ignored her record as a senator
as you know, a district attorney. I'm just like, at
the attorney general, I'm like, I'm so sorry, what what
are you missing about? How progressive and fair and inclusive

(18:22):
to everyone this woman has always been. You know, maybe
I know more about her because I grew up in California.
But she is an incredible candidate, and beyond just ignoring
her record, I also think a lot of people need
to go back to social studies class because I'm like,
do y'all not know how civic works. She is the
literal vice president of the United States of America. She's
not like a random person being installed.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
As the nominee. Like she is the active vice president
of the United States.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
And people and the delegates within the Democratic Party, they
voted for her, they won her.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
I mean to be very clear. In the primary, when
people voted for Joe Biden, they were voted for Carl Hairs.
They vote for her exactly.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
And then when Joe Biden bout out of the race
and then endorsed his vice president, she just didn't say, Okay,
it's me and it.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Is a coordination. She is.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
She got on the phone and she went to work
calling people for their endorsements. And the hours after the
President made us all aware via social media that he.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Was no longer in this race, it's my understanding that
she was.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
On the phone calling up anybody, members of Congress, union folks,
calling them up saying I want this one and two,
I want your endorsement, and that is that. That's like
campaign one on one, Honey. You get on that phone,
you call the people, you have the conversations, and you
ask for what you want. A closed mouth will not

(19:45):
get fed and a closed mouth will.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Not get a vote. Okay. So I just think she
had the right mindset.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Here exactly exactly, and so can you talk to us
about how you view the campaign? And look, I want
to be very sensitive. This is a historic moment. I again,
I'm a Californian. I know her record. I will never
forget what it felt like to watch the news and

(20:11):
watch her at the time years ago say you will
start performing marriages. I mean, she has stood up for
equity and decency and everyone in our country for so long.
So you know I've got those opinions. Also, it is
a historic, incredible moment. We have a black woman running
for the president of the United States of America, and so.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
It's like, what I don't want to do is make
it about a man.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
But this is also the week that she announced Tim
Walls as her VP.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Pick.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
I happen to love coach. I think he is a
miraculous person because he manages being sort of like a
quintessential older, sweet white guy dad football dude to also
be a kind and cclude of man who has proven
incredibly for his state that you can bring everybody along

(21:06):
and nobody loses, not even guys like him who you know,
want to say they're suddenly losing it in America, where
women like you and I are no longer under threat
every day, just maybe still most of the time. Like
I don't know, it's a weird argument, but like he
kind of does away with a lot of the complaints
that come out of these bot farms on the right.
So I want to focus on her and I want

(21:28):
to talk about him. How does it feel, you know,
from inside the administration? What do you see since the
announcement of him being the pick? Yeah, tell give me
the inside baseball here a little bit.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
I've talked to a number of current administration officials, you know,
folks that still work for the president and vice president
on the official side. And I talked to a bunch
of the campaign folks, the senior campaign leadership, but also
maybe what we would call rank and file campaign staff
who just were watching a new just like the rest
of us, Like oh, Joe Biden's out up. Kamla Harris
is them, Oh we're doing this.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, people are excited. I think people are very excited.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
I think folks are surprised by how much the momentum
has continued to build and these I don't remember the
last time it's been a while since a Democratic candidate
for president has had a airport hangar rally that has
been filled to the brim and spilling over.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
So that is an exciting piece.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
The senior leadership though, and I would also note the
Vice President herself, I think that they are very clear eyed,
clear eye that this is still going to be a fight,
that there are people in this country that want what
Donald Trump and Jade Vance are selling and the vision
that they are offering, and that nothing is going to

(22:51):
be handed to them.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
They know that the race is going to be close.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
And so I don't think that the Vice President herself
is is high, if you.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Will, on the sugar high.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
She's doing the work, she's doing the work, and I
think she's clear and she's resolute.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
That's just from knowing her. That's just the kind of
that's just the kind of person she is.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
When the states get high and when everybody is having
fun and people are like, oh, this is our moment.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
She's always like, okay, but focus because the reality is
is that there are.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
Was as we had this conversation, We'll just say less
than ninety days until election day, but it's even sooner
than that, Sophia, until people start voting in this country
after convention, within the first week of September and key
places across the country, folks are going to start going
to the battle box and cast their vote. Tim Wallas
is an excellent to be very clear, any pick the
Vice President would have made would have been an excellent

(23:43):
pick because the candidates that the contenders that I'm aware
that were in the in contention, all of them amazing
representatives of the Democratic Party apparatus, amazing people that would
have been great, great, great running mates and excellent vice presidents.
If Kadlah Harris is to be elected, Tim Walls, though
the Vice President felt was right for her, and as
a you select a running mate, it's the first major

(24:04):
decision that a nominee makes. It's literally the first presidential
level decision that they may because you are picking the
person that, in the event you cannot do the job.
To be very clear, that this is the person you
want to have your job and someone that you want
to work with and be your governing partner for the next.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
Four, maybe even eight years.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
So she obviously felt like she had that in Governor Wall,
someone who is the current chair of the Democratic Governor's Association.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Like this man.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
People talk about Governor Walls like he just fell out
of a pricking apple tree and found his way up
into to be the running made of potential next Vice
President of United States for America. Like no, he too
has done the work throughout his career, and I would know.
He's a native Nebraska like myself. So the folk are
taking credit for ten Walls.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
But this is going to be a fight, Sophia, And
if the news currently is any indication they're going to
be attacked from the Trump and Band's campaign that the
Harris Walls campaign are going to have to contend with.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
We we have yet to see either of the major
either of the candidates fraying either of the tickets, whether
I'm talking about Donald Trump and Jade Vance or Vice
President Harris and Governor Wallas fit for joint interviews together. Right,
That's something that usually happens when Secretary Clinton chose Tim
Kaine as her running mate in twenty sixteen, about forty
eight hours later they were doing a joint interview. When

(25:21):
Vice president then candidate Biden chose then Senator Harris as
his running mate in twenty twenty, about four years ago actually, frankly,
oh wow, my goodness, about four years ago this week, crazy,
Maybe about almost two weeks later, about twelve days later,
they set together for a joint interview. So it just
depends this is unprecidented because, to be very clear, not
only in two weeks time did Vice President Harris stand

(25:44):
up a campaign apparatus and she's a running mate.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Like she's also teasing out what her policies are gonna be.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
I would not suggest anybody sit down for in depth
interview anywhere and you're not sure what your policies are, honey,
because they're gonna have to answer those questions. But should
they maybe are they gonna or are we gonna start
saying them take more questions as they're out and about
with the reporters that are traveling with them.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
I think they should.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
The kaple of Harris, I know that's what that's what
she did when I worked for and what she's continued
to do over the last couple of years, a couple
of years as the vice president.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
So that is where I see this race right now.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
It is I don't think people, though, should should trample
on the enthusiasm.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Have you heard people say, I'm like, oh, why are
they so incided? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (26:24):
But I don't care. I'm just so happy. It feels
nice to feel happy about our future again. It feels
nice that good people can go and do good things
for other people. You know it Trump unleashed. Look, there's
always been hey, but Trump unleashed like a hate machine

(26:48):
on steroids. And it's so tiring. It is tiring to
to have to fight tooth and nail to just remain
at baseline and to begin I believe for so many
people in this country to see that we could get
like up pass baseline into goodness. That there could be

(27:10):
more infrastructure investment, there could be more job creation. You know,
communities that have historically had you know, their working classes
dying in coal mines or contracting cancer posts that lifetime
of work could actually be the first communities to get
green sector jobs where they work in safe environments and
have healthcare, like you know, kids get to eat in school,

(27:32):
even some of the attacks of the right on governor laws.
They're like, hey gave kids tampons, And I'm like, y'all,
I'm a forty two year old woman and I was
at the Modern Art Museum in Grand Rapids last week,
got my period a day early and couldn't get a tampon,
and was like, I'm a grown ass person who has
to freak out about this. I don't know what I

(27:54):
would do if I were twelve and I needed to
go take a math test in the next, you know,
next class, and this was happening to me.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Like I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Maybe sure children didn't go hungry was a radical, you
know position.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
I didn't know that I didn't eat.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Folks have what they need.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
For their health care situation, which, to be clear, like
women get periods, girls get periods, like this is this
is this is part of what happens students.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Men's stream and pads are.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
You know, they're necessary, they're necessary products. I didn't know
making sure that, you know, young girl girls who are
at school can have access to those items and not
have to you know, see if they've got a dollar
or a dollar twenty five, or they have change in
their pockets in order to get the what they need
is a radical position, Like I just I didn't know

(28:43):
the ensuring that people in a state capital somewhere are
not overriding your doctor when your doctor tells you what
you need for your health care is a radical position,
to be very clear, which is why I think is
really important to fear that people are very specific, right.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
And so when when.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
The some of the attacks on Governor Walls are specifically
about how he was as a governor, they say he
was a very conservative member of cong He was a
he was a moderate Democrat, right, and he got elected
in a conservative district in two thousand and six and
served in that district until he left her to run
for governor. And he during that time he had a
high grating from the NRA right all of these things,

(29:23):
and they say, well, that was Congressman Walls, but Governor
Walls are somewhat different, and they think that the campaign
is going to have to contend with this. They're gonna
have to beat this back aggressively, in my opinion, because
narrative is a very powerful thing, and because he is
new on the national stage of so many people, they
cannot allow this narrative to take hold. So you gotta
be specific, like, Okay, what things the governor walls do

(29:44):
that you didn't agree with?

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Feed over children? Yeah, let's just ask the questions here.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, let's ask the questions. And by the way, I
loved that he took to the Internet to say, yeah,
I'm I'm a hunter. I've grown up with guns. I
used to at an A rating from the NRA, and
then when I learned what they were spending money on
ensuring that these mass shootings keep happening, I changed my
opinion and now I'm proud to have an F rating.

(30:11):
I was like, dude, you're great, You're just great. It's
it doesn't all have to be so hysterical. But I
think part of the reason that it's hard is because,
at least in my opinion, as you know, a political
nerd for sure, but a civilian, we do deal with

(30:31):
on the right a lot of projection, a lot of
what folks on the right are guilty of, they're saying
the Democrats are doing. And it's tricky when one group
is like, well, no, we don't do that, and the
other group is, you know, screaming hysterics all the time.
It doesn't really feel like a level playing field. It's

(30:52):
like we show up, you know, to the argument like
I always think of it like West Side story, Like
you got one group showing up to the fight with
like little switchblades. You've got the other group showing up
with an uzi and you wonder why, Like everything feels crazy.
We'll be back in just a minute. But here's a
word from our sponsors.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
I think people need to hear Donald top in his
own words, unfiltered, because that is who he is and
that is what voters are getting exactly.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
And when he doesn't have the softball questions prepped from
his friends at Fox News, and he has to actually,
you know, speak his opinions or speak off the cuff.
I mean the way his disdain for women and his
racism pours out of his body. I'll come to the
you know, Kamala Harris observations he made in a moment,

(31:43):
but even the fact that he dared to say with
a straight face, I've been the best president for black
people since Abraham Lincoln. Excuse me, sir, excuse me. First
of all, no, you haven't the programs you've defunded, the
people you've come for what you have promoted out in
the world, like from policy to personal aspect, you are

(32:05):
a nightmare. But the fact that you would say that is.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
So shocking to me.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
And it's also I mean not shocking.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
I guess that's what's wild.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
He shocks me, but it doesn't surprise me. Maybe that's
the way to say.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
Because he's a salesman and Donald Trump believe. Look, if
you say anything enough times, people may start to believe it, right,
Like it's this whole thing about like why it could
be why do demo Why are Democrats regularly ranks lower
on the economy? Literally, generic Democrats lawer on the economy
than like a generic Republican because for years Republicans have

(32:37):
just said they're great on the economy.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
They just said they're good on it, even.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Though the data proves the opposite.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Honey, where are the policy to back it up?

Speaker 3 (32:44):
So Donald Trump is trying to use that when it
comes to He actually used that strategy on a number
of different things. But like that's why he does things
like that. And for so long people never fact checked him.
They would just let him say the crazy thing.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
And it's like, well, Donald Trump, yep, says again blah,
blah black.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
And now people are like wising up to it, and
the media apparatus is like, Okay, we're not gonna We're
not going to allow this to go and check. There's
still some issues with the way in which Donald Trump
gets away with things, but I think that he is
being held accountable more now than ever before.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
One of the good sides of this much connectivity is
we just know so much more existing in the world
because we see it. So when he says on the
stage at the NABJ that, you know, he can't believe
Kamala Harris is black, that she quote was always of
Indian heritage, was only promoting Indian heritage. I didn't know

(33:38):
she was black. And then he goes on to say,
you know, and she's she's turned black. Is she Indian
or black? And I was like, bro, First of all,
it's insane to me that in the year twenty twenty
four you don't understand that mixed race people exist. It's
wild that you would say this when your running mate's
wife is also and heritage, so his children are mixed,

(34:03):
your your would be hopeful vice president's kids and Sir
Kamala Harris went to historically black college. She's a member
of the AKA, like.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Even if she didn't go to a HBCU, I know,
not a member of a sorority, Like whether one is
black or not has nothing to do with the school
they went to. And then the sorority that they well
what donald thought to tell anyone who they are, but.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Just wild to me observing it to go sir, You
can't say like, oh, I met this person and didn't
realize her family history. She's the Vice President of the
United States of America, whose entire life is on the record.
If you've ever watched a speech she's given, ever paid
attention to groups she advocates for, or knew anything about

(34:52):
her personal history. To be proud of where you come from, Like,
my mom's family is Italian, my dad's from Canada.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Guess what.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
I'm a dual se citizen in Canada and I try
to go to Italy at least once a year to
see my family. I love both places.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
You don't owe anyone an explanation. I sure don't.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
I sure don't.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
You don't owe.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
Anyone an explanation for that, and neither does the Vice president.
But she shares her rich history being a daughter of immigrants,
a daughter of Oakland, California, someone whom her mother, who
she often talks about, her mother, shambla who she says,
you know, her mother knew she was raising two young
black girls, that that's how the world would see her children,

(35:31):
and she made sure she instilled in us the richness
of our full heritage. So this idea, this is why
I think Donald Trump is doing two things on that
stage with that particular comment.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
One he was speaking to.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Just frankly, the racist parts of our electorate, because they
do exist, and the folks who and the racist parts
of our electorate saying, you don't even know what she is?

Speaker 2 (35:53):
What you sure you want her to be president? That's
essentially what he was saying. But I also think he
was speaking to this un your current.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
That exists within communities of color that say, well, who
is who is actually a person of color?

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Who's actually black?

Speaker 3 (36:08):
And I think that the second thing that he was
doing is a lot more. It's it's sinister, It's something
he himself didn't understand.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
He probably saw it on the internet as somebody said
it to him.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
But either way, no one in this country owes anyone
else an explanation about their their their identity, you know
what I mean about who they are, like the beauty
of That's what Governor Walls was saying.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
You don't give what to say. Mind your own damn business.
But like if Donald Trup wants.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
To ask these kinds of questions, and if hee would
like to ask the vice president like well is she
actually black? I do not suggest these are questions one
should ask, Okay, but if you, if you, if you
decide you'd like to ask them, perhaps they shouldn't be
asked on a debase stage while you're standing next to her.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
And she said herself like, if you have you have.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
So much to say, maybe you should say it's my face.
But those are not things that he would do. But
the fact that it made its way onto a stage
where the cameras were on, in a room full of journalists,
and now that veryist, the sinister comments have been repeated
large and everyone has heard it.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
It opens the door for folks in their own communities
to repeat some of the same sinister language that Donald
Trump is sent in.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
And so this is why it's just like Donald Trump
could be defeated at the ballot box. It's November, like
Vice President Harris. She's running a good campaign. It's still
you know, in less than ninety days.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
She could win. And even if she wins, While.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
Donald Trump may be defeated, Trumpism is not going away.
And I think there is a larger conversation that is
to be had about how trump Ism has so ingrained
itself within the DNA of the current Republican Party apparatus.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
That it's not going to be enough to just defeat
him at the ballot box.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
Because there are people who have been elected all over
this country, some in Congress, some in state legislatures, some right,
some in the Secretary of State's.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Office, some election officials, Oh yeah, election officials, and they
believe with Donald cup believes that's what's so dangerous about
this moment.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah, it is scary. Well, it's very scary to have
supposed American civil servants adhering to the language and goals
of dictators and despots who we've judged around the world,
and when they think the one in their own backyard
could make them rich, they go the hell with democracy.
You know that that is stressful for me as a

(38:31):
passionate citizen also daughter of immigrants who you know, all
my family is here because of this idea, of this
American dream, and it's surreal to see how quickly people
are willing to sell it out. But it is why
I feel hopeful, because what I appreciate is that the
Vice President and Governor Walls are reminding us it's not

(38:54):
hard to live next to people. It's not hard to
be good to people. It's not hard to say, listen,
you do this, I do that online, my business, you
mind yours. Let's make sure everybody has rights. You know,
I loved that that Governor Wall said rights are not
like a pie. There's enough for everybody to go around,
Like you can have yours and they can have theirs,
and them having theirs doesn't threaten yours. Like we can

(39:15):
actually all just listen to each other. And it's nice
to have folks presenting us with a vision of an
America where we as a country get to solve problems
together instead of fight each other to see who wins
within our walls. That's just not useful.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, it's not sustainable either, Like, no, it's not what
I mean.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
You know, the President always talks about like America being
an idea, and it is America is an idea it's
an experiment, frankly, and it is an experiment that only
it's it's like it's a system that only works if
you're working, okay, and it is it is. I like
what you said about how it's kind of like our
democracy is like a long time. It's like a committed

(40:01):
marriage situation. It is something every single day, and some
days you'll get it right. There will be some days
there will be setbacks. But I just haven't traveled all
over you know, we've traveled all over this our great country,
but also the world.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
And I still I still would rather.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
There's no place in the in the world i'd rather
be than be an American.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Like the privilege, just the privilege.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
And when I went to the White House, one of
the one of the things about working at the White
House is when you travel abroad on behalf of the
United States government. And I traveled with the Vice President
when she went on all of her to call them oconaces.
I don't know why they call them oconass but it's
an in a national trip. And when we would travel abroad,
it's like they didn't care if the people abroad, it

(40:48):
doesn't matter if it is a president that was a
democratic president that was elected or Republican president that was elected.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
We are Americans. You're representing a America and we that
is how that you us.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
The people abroad are not looking at us as Democrats
or Republicans are independents.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
They're looking at us as Americans.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
And when you when you step off a plane in
a foreign country as a representative of America, it is
one of the highest privilege. It is quite possibly the
highest privilege I feel like I have ever been afforded
to represent America.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
It's probably how it's how they are left in.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
The Olympias build Yeah America right now, We're like, yeah,
we're rooting for because because.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
They are, they are representing all of us.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
And that's that is why who is in the White
House matters. Who the president is matter is honey, Because
these guard grils that y'all think exist, let me tell
you it is only as good as the people the
president surround themselves with, and the Congress that is willing
to do their job, and the Supreme Court that is
that is that is that.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Is willing to stay in their.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Box held to ethical standards.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Come on now, and the Congress is has been unbilling
to do their job.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
The Republicans in Congress, and then the Supreme Court they
have they it's like the ethical standards don't exist.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
Well, they've all been bought and paid for.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
I'm on now, they're not there.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
And I just I don't know how better to tell
people that so much of what happens in the White
House and in the federal government is just a bunch
of people sitting in that room saying what it is
they'd like to do.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
And those people are often the.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
President, the president's chief of staff, maybe it's a vice
president and their team and the.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Core team around them.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
And if those people do not have the same reverence
for the role and the job and don't feel the
same way about stepping off the plane as Americans that
I just described, well, then honey weed for a ride, right.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Well, And I think it's been very important for us
to realize, to your point, how fragile the guardrails are.
People assume they're made of steel, and they're kind of
made of glass. We can't risk all of this repeat
harm done. The idea is that we get better at
achieving the ideals of the American experiment, and folks who

(43:01):
are willing to sell off the American Experiment for parts
I think shouldn't ever be back in the White House again.
I'm really curious only because I mean, my god, I
love having like really timely, topical, deep conversations with you
about this stuff. But I also want to, like, I
just want to give you all your flowers for a moment.

(43:21):
You are an incredible human. You are an incredible American.
You are an incredible friend. You have been someone that
I enjoy learning from advocating alongside, who has been willing
to sit you know, do the things in public and
the big advocacy, but like we've also sat at like

(43:42):
the IOP in a back classroom at Harvard talking to students,
and like you've been an ear for me to vent
about my life and ask questions like what do I
do in this situation that's really hard for me right now?
And so I think people can forget when they look
at someone like you who has done all the work
that you've done, that you are so young, Like Simone,

(44:07):
you were twenty five years old when you became the
national Press secretary for Senator Sanders on his presidential campaign,
Like how how did you.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Get that passion that ten years ago? Yet that hell
Loo years next year.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Wow, this is what I'm saying. Like you were twenty
five years old, you were a baby, So where did
the passion come from? And then how did you handle
the pressure at that age? Like, because I want to
know how you got there and how you did it.
And then looking back from here almost ten years later,
what advice you might give young folks who want to

(44:44):
follow in your footsteps.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Well, first, let me say you were very kind you
all thought phobia. You do such a great job of
just I think when I when I see you and
a number of people like you, right, but I think
of this Nina Smong quote. Nina Smith says, it is
an artist's duty to reflect the times.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
And there are so meaning and I mean.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
You are you are an actor, you're a director, you're
a philanthropist, but you're an artist. At the end of
the day, you're an artist. And there are artists out
there that do not feel.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
It is their duty to reflect the times.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
There are people that have opinions and thoughts, but they
do not do anything with them. You know, they share
them amongst their small groups, but they're not going out
there trying to help people register the vote, trying to help,
you know, sing where they can fix some of the
things that are happening in the community, how they can
stand up and just kind of do what they can
in their own space and place. But you do do that,
and I really think it's important that you. I really

(45:37):
really think it's important that you do that. There are
lots of other people that do, Like I think of I'm.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Not even gonna lie. Have you heard this before? But
one said no.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
One said to me the other day they were like,
you know what, Sophia Bush is like the white Kerry Washington.
I said, when it comes to the politics. She's like yes,
I said, you know what, yees. You know why they say.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
That, because Carrie, she will show up.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
For the voting street honey, see will do an activation,
he will fly the main.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
I love that woman. That's a big compliment for me.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Yes, And they were like, yeah, Okia puts just like
the white Kerry Washington. And I was like, you know,
next time I see Sofia, I will I will make
sure I tell her that.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
But that is I think that's so important. So you know,
you gave me that flowers. But like I appreciate I do.
I appreciate you because we need people like you. We
need people to use.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
Their platforms and use their time and their space in
place to just talk about the issues because it makes
it so much more accessible.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
I would just quickly.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Say that how I got the how I got there
the Bernie Sanders job, It really was nothing, but like
I think, I mean, I worked hard, but I think
it was just a lot of like prayer and just
I'm a spiritual person, and I think I believe that
it was that what is for you will not miss you.
And I had gone on like twenty seven interviews before,

(46:54):
like literally twenty seven interviews. I interviewed everywhere every Democratic
entity in Washington, d C.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Every every Democratic committee, they all one place.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
I went to like eight rounds of interviews only for
them not to hire me but tell me that they
loved they loved my spirit and then I addressed very well.
So I get a call from like Bernie Sanders in
campaign manager randomly on my cell phone. Somebody whom I
had worked for previously, gave him my resume and he
called and he asked me, did I want to, you know,
come work for Bernie Sanders.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
I'm like, who is this?

Speaker 3 (47:23):
And I ended up going to meet with Jeff Weaver,
and then maybe a couple weeks later, I meet with
the communications director.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Then I don't hear anything. So now I've been on like,
you know, twenty nine interviews.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
No job.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
I have a job now, but I don't want that
job anymore. I had moved to DC to do politics,
and I wasn't doing politics, so I wanted to do
political work. And I get another.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Random call on my phone and it's someone from Bernie Sanders'
office and they're asking me to meet with him. We
end up going to meet that day and the Senator
and I get into an argument when I get in there.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
And you met Senator Standers, I love him. Bernie Sanders
have to say the same thing in higher career.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
That man is the epitome of like his authentic self
because he hasn't believed what he's believed since longer.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Than I've been alive. Okay, Yeah, And so Bernie.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Sanders let me know that he thought I had a
fundamental misunderstanding of his economic policy, and I was just like, well, sorry,
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm saying.
And so we we kind of went back and forth.
I told a story or two, and by the end
of the conversation we were on the same page, right,
and he told me he liked me.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
I was like, I like you.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
And then he was like, oh, I think I want
you to work here. I was like, I think I
could work here. And then BERNIEY Sanders asking something nobody
had ever asked you before. He said, well, do you
have an idea what you want to do? And I
knew exactly what I had wanted to do because I
knew what I wanted my next role to be. I
knew what I wanted my title to be. I knew
the experience I wanted to be able to get, so
that is what I asked for. I told Bernie Sanders
straight up, I want to be your national pre secretary.

(48:56):
I want to be your on the record spokesperson. I
want to have a hand of the messaging strategy, just
like we discussed here. And I want to, you know,
do cable television. And Bertie Scatters is just kind of like,
have you ever done cable television before? And I was like, no, sir,
but I do think I'd be very good at it,
and he laughed. And then days later I get a
call back on my phone again.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
It's Jeff Weaver. He starts talking about the phone and
the laptop, and I'm like, well, what's my job title, Jeff,
and he says national Press secretary. Now, Sophia, I did
not think there was gonna make me the national press secretary. Honey.
I'm gonna ask what I want and then I'm gonna
let you. If you want to hale me down, you
can hale me down.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Yeah, But that is I think the best piece of
advice that I could give, and I remember and I
take that experience with me and everything that I have
done since then. I think that we should be about
the business of asking for what we want and what
we know we have worked for, and then when we
get it, we need to be able to execute. And
how many times do we ask for the thing right
up under the thing we want because we feel like

(49:52):
somebody's not gonna give it to us.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
All they could tell.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Me is no, right, I love it, aim high, expect
a counteroffer, and some times you'll get asking.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Sometimes you'll get it. I'm I love it. I love it,
and it's worked for me, and I just I am.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
I'm very comfortable with who I am. I mean, I
think I had to be comfortable. I didn't think I
was getting that job. When Bernie Sanders and I started arguing,
I was just like, but since I'm here, I'm gonna
say my piece, because when am I gonna be sitting
in the office of the United.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
States Senator again?

Speaker 3 (50:23):
And I've been in many more offices of the United
States Senators. I just I think it's important that folks.
I think young women, especially young people of color across
the board, should know that their.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Authentic selves are are are just enough.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
And I think that while there has been there has
been a lot of progress across all these various industries.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
I mean, we're talking about the fact that the Democrats.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
Have just nominated a black woman, a woman of color,
a woman of South Asian descent, as the nominator, the
first of any major party.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
This is the ground to Shirley chishol laid. Shirlie Chisen
was the first woman to run for president on any
major party ticket.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Nineteen seventy two.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
In nineteen right, but Shirley chishom laid the groundwork for
Geraldine Ferraro, which was forty years ago. She was the
first woman to be on the major party ticket as
the vice presidential running mate that laid the groundwork for
Secretary Clinton in twenty sixteen to be the first woman
of any any major party to be nominated as the nominee,
Which brings us to this moment that we are currently

(51:27):
in with Vice presid Kamala Harrison. So much progress has
been made, but there's still such a long way to go.
And I just, you know, my authentic self is just enough.
I can't so like, I don't put on anything else,
and I go to work every day. I literally have
the privilege of going to work just as simone because
simone is just enough.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
And now a word from our sponsors who make this
show possible.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
So what made you know?

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Because you said you spoke what you wanted into existence
with Senator Sanders, then you were in the Biden campaign.
How did you know that it was time to leave
for the cable TV part?

Speaker 2 (52:11):
You know? I So I did the Biden campaign. I
worked through the transition.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
I served the president and Vice president in the administration,
and it was just grueling. That was from the campaign
to the administration. It was about three years because I'd
do in the campaign in twenty nineteen and then twenty
twenty and then twenty twenty one. So by the end
of that year, almost the end of the year twenty
twenty one, I just felt like that I was burnt out.

(52:36):
I felt tired. I felt like I was coming home
and I was just I was an unhappy person.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
You know, I'm tired. You know when you getting tired
of ghost. I was exhausted.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
I was hopping on and I've been hopping on off
planes for about three years, and I want to be
able to go to brunch.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
I was also about to get married, like I got
engaged earlier that year, and my wedding was going to.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Be in twenty twenty two, and I just had to
make a decision, like do I I enjoy and loved
my job. I have a deep respect and love for
the president and the Vice President, and it was tough
for me. I didn't even want to tell the Vice
president that I was leaving. You know what I did,
I told the chief of staffs first that I had made.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
The decision to go. My chief is after this time.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
Her name was Tina, the Vice President's first chief of staff,
and Tina was like, well, we all want you here,
and I'm like, yes, I know, Tina, but I just
like it's my time, and you know I'm tired.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
I gave it. I told Tina all the things I'm
telling you. You know, I'm getting married and I want
to be able to enjoy and plan my wedding. And
Tina's like, well, you must tell her, And I'm like, well,
can't you tell her? And I didn't want to tell
her because I.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
Loved my job and I had deep respective love for
the vice President, and she gave me an opportunity to
know that no one else had afforded to me.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
She never hesitated to make me her spokesperson. She called
me and she told me, I would like you to
be my senior advisor and my chief spokesperson.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
She never she never questioned if I could do the job.
She never suggested that I didn't have enough experience.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
She never.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
All she ever did was so confidence in me that
I could do it, and then we would go and
get it done. And I didn't. You know, when you
decide you want to leave something that you've been in
with people for.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
A while, it's like you kind of feel like you're
letting people down because it's like, oh, you think of
all the things that you're responsible for and so I don't.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
I think in the moment, I didn't want to be
the one to tell it to her first, because maybe
maybe I didn't want anybody to say, hey, maybe maybe
you should stay.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
I don't want her to I don't want her to
counter me. And what if I'm in a week moment
and like she's I'm like, okay, final stay. So I
asked Tina to tell her first. Tina Tina. Tina took
her time telling her for the same reason I think
I took her. I didn't want to tell her, And
she finally told her the day she told her we
were going to do.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
I think we're going to do a campaign event in
Virginia because it was an advance of the midterm elections.
And we get out of the motorcade and we're walking
down the hallway in like this school in Virginia where
the rally is happening.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
And as I'm walking, I'm trying to brief her about
this stuff and she's like, I talked to Tina. She
told me. I'm like, ma'am. She was like, you and
I need to talk. I said, yes, ma'am. And the
next day she asked me.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
Coming to her office, and I send to our office
for about forty five minutes. The vice because of the
United States of America, does not have forty five minutes
for her staff person be sitting on the couch talk
about something that is not connected to work she does,
but she took the time to sit there with me
and the conversation that we had. She never once countered
me and told me tried to talk me out of
the decision I made. She wanted to understand why I was.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Leaving, which I told her what exactly what I told
you here, and she gave me good advice. And then
she asked me, I thought, I she well, I want
just paraphraid. And note that she told me. She told
me that whatever I do next, I should understand that
I am in the driver's seat. She underscored that like
the work we had done here was.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Was truly transform transformational, amazing work. The work here is
not yet done. And but like she unders she she
reinforced that she understood.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Where I was.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
And then she just kind of talked to me about
how the decisions that I'm making, how they affect my life.
Like she talked to me about she she had known
she had gotten to know my now husband very well.
You know, she would give him herbs from her garden.
She got a garden in LA but also at the
vice presidents at the Naple Observatory, she'd always you know,
be bringing stuff, say in a little baggies that this

(56:27):
is for it's for your husband, because ain't for me,
because I'm not cooking Sophia and she she so she
talked me about that and just and it was so
interesting because when I originally met her, way back when
I met her when uh he shortly after he and
I started dating, and so she kind of been on
the journey with us the whole time, even before that,
so I had all I would always kind of talk

(56:48):
to her about the things.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
You know, she's some days it's like a auntie.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
But it was a great conversation, and she did pour
into me there and then she was like, now we
got to go to work, and I all, I remember
every single thing that she said to me in that conversation.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
So when I was having my meetings when I left
the White House, I was very clear, just like I
was when I was with Senator Sanders and all the
other jobs I've had previously, what I wanted.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
I wanted a show, and I wanted my own show
on TV, and every single network had told me that
is not what you really want. They all said the
same They all had the same script, Oh you don't
really want to do that. Oh I don't think that's
what you want. Don't you want the flexibility? But I'm
telling you what I want. I want a television show
on TV. I want to do I want my own

(57:31):
show on cable news. And it wasn't until I met
with Rashida Joe's from MSBC and she asked.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Me, well, what kind of show would you like to have?

Speaker 3 (57:39):
And that is where we got to to where we
are now, where I'm one of the co hosts of
the Weekend but one I've never I always think about.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Not allowing anyone to put me in a box that
like where I become a characterture of myself. You know,
I have a lot of personality.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
You know, I don't necessarily talk how people are used
to how other news anchors people are used to hearing.
And that's this is how I was when I worked
for you know, when I worked in the federal government,
when I worked for the vice president of the president.
But the vice president she always would say. I mean,
she's like, you are funny, but you are also very
serious and you are substantive. And if people are if

(58:24):
someone is not getting both of those from you, they are.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Not getting you. And I think about that as I
do this job. Now.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
For sure, I love that and I think that's really important.
That's something that my friendships with women like you have
taught me is, you know, my intellect and my deep
twenty years of showing up for policy work matters. And yeah,
I'm also like a wildly unseerious person who you know,

(58:52):
wants to run around to late night diners and go
to dance parties. And there has to be space for
all of it. And I think particular cularly women who
are intellectual or powerful or political get the funds discouraged.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
Out of them.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
And I'm I'm excited to be in an era where
it feels like we can be more full.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Yes, whole people who does the kid who have thought
thought I've given dynamic?

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Yeah, well, when you think about this larger dynamic of
your life, this thing that you know, spoke claimed owned,
when you sit at the helm of your show, is
it everything that you dreamed of?

Speaker 2 (59:36):
Like?

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Is the little kid Simone who pretended to host her
own show Happy Do you love it?

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Honestly, like people are, especially nowadays, their body's like, oh, well, well,
do you miss the campaign trail?

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Do you miss this?

Speaker 3 (59:49):
And I'm as a campaign person, you definitely missed the
campaign trail because I came up and doing campaigns like
I'm a campaign baby for sure.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
But I love what I'm doing now. And frankly, I
know what.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
The you know. I read. I read the trade newspapers
and the trade. I know what people say about cable news,
but the reality is sofia. When something happens in the world,
people turn on their television. And when they turn on
their TV, I mean when when the interrection happened. When
when folks took up arms against the against the UN,
against officers who were defending the United States capital, people

(01:00:25):
who attempted to subvert the peaceful transition of power, People
turned on the TV to see what was happening. I mean,
when Joe Biden said he wasn't right for president anymore,
he dropped.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
It on social media, so people said social media.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Then they turned on the TV, but they wanted some
context put into what they were seeing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
And they wanted to know if it was true, because nowadays,
sometimes yout on the Internet isn't true. So when all
of these things are happening in the world, people still
turn on the television, and when they do, they are
expecting to find someone there who's going to tell them
the truth, who's going to be actual and factual and substantive,
who is just going to going to you know, give
them the information and help give them a roadmap. And

(01:01:06):
I great honor and a great privilege.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
I feel so blessed to be able to, you know,
do that with Michael Steele and Elysia Menindez on the
weekends every Saturday and Sunday, and the opportunities that I
have throughout the week. So this is if I am
not you know, in the if I'm not in the
fight at the at the White House or you know,
out on the campaign trial, I think the next best
place to be is on TV giving context to the

(01:01:31):
moments that we are collectively experiencing as American people.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
And you know that is my you know, radical revolutionary
contribution to this moment. I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
And when I think about the stages and phases of life,
you did that work so that you can have this
kind of innate expertise in this phase I made.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
What could I argue? Who could have orchestrated it better?
Sophia's like I knew, I love it. You are.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
You are a literal walking example of the power of
manifestation and hard work. It's my favorite combo in a
human As you sit here, you know, in this moment
where it's all come true when you look out at
the year ahead, and not just necessarily with the election,
I guess I just mean more for you, like for Simon,
what feels like you're working progress?

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Now?

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
You know, I just.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Ooh, this is a deep question. What is my work
in progress?

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
Now? Look, I just think that this there are well,
the election is what is in front of us, as
like the American people, right and the people that are
keyed into the political every single day. There are many
other things happening across our country and across the world
that don't make it to the front pages of the
newspapers or on the cable news every day.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
And there are real.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
Issues that people are dealing with across this country, whether
it comes, whether they're dealing with them economically, whether we're
talking about you know, the reproductive fight, whether they talk
about criminal justice, I think about I recently saw the
video of Sonia Massey.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
I waited to watch it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
I read all the descriptions, but I was like, I
need to watch the video, and like, these things are
still happening. So I just would say that there are
many things that need the layers peeled back, that need
the context, that need to be spoken about. There are
many conversations that need to be had that are separate
from maybe I think everything, at the end of the

(01:03:26):
day is political. Everything is not partisan, but everything is political.
You know, the ability Sonia, the difference between Sonia Massey
being alive today and losing her life in her kitchen
because a police officer shot.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Her in the head, that is in fact political.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Yes, is political to be able to go to the
grocery store in your neighborhood to get vegetables.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
And green lettuce.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
It's political to be able to go to the doctor
and get the health care that you need and the
timely manner that is high quality when you need it.
And so everything, in my opinion is political, everything though
it is not partisan.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
And so I think that many of the things that
I just mentioned.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Simply they are political, and so they are connected to
this current moment, but it is not they don't they
this current moment, this election is not the only thing,
and so I'm excited about the ability. Like what conversations
we're having post November fifth, twenty twenty four, post January

(01:04:22):
twenty twenty and twenty twenty five. I hope we're not
talking about another potential insurrection. I hope we are not
having conversations about how elected officials across the country who
have whether they've been elected to serve or volunteer, election officials,
have developed a very sinister plot to subvert the will

(01:04:42):
of the people that the person that they wanted is
in fact not elected.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
I hope that's not what we're talking about, but we are.
I'll be ready to have the conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Well, my hope is that fifty two years after Shirley
Chisholm ran indeed in nineteen seventy two, that we get
to see that dream manifested into existence, and that we,
to your point, have a peaceful transition of power, and
then we get to continue working toward progress for the
American people and economy that works for everybody in a

(01:05:12):
world where women like us get to actually, you know,
maintain our sovereign rights. That would be lovely.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
That would be lovely. I don't want the handmade sale, honey,
y'all mean neither. I'm good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
I would love to just put a real stop, just
break pedal on that. Please and thank you, and so
may it be. You are a powerful manifestor. I feel
like me getting to have this conversation with you put
some things in motion in the universe. So thank you
for coming today, thank you for taking the time. I
absolutely adore you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
I adore you. Be well, okay, and I'll see fi okay, I'll.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Be watching you. Bye bo bye, honey.