Exploring the Warren/Sanders Divide

Katy, Robert and Cody have a conversation about all things Sanders and Warrens,

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of My Heart
Radio Welcome Together Everything, So don't don't hey, welcome back

(00:22):
to the Worst Year Ever. My name's it is? That
was a weird intro. No, it was great. Um, you
got my name out there. I introduced a show. What's
your name? Oh it's Cody Johnston. That's right, it is? Yes,
thank you and joining us as always is I'm dying,

(00:43):
is I'm dying. I'm Robert Evans, and I uh was
recovering from the crud that I caught from all of
those gun owners in Virginia, and uh then I had
to do a live show in San Francisco and just
ruined my my voice. So I am going to sit
back and listen to my friends today. I'm sure you'll

(01:05):
have some things to chirp in. I think you sound great,
but you sound beautiful. You look beautiful too. He's wrapped
up in a nice cozy robe. He's got his tissues. Um.
We miss you being here in l A for sure,
But at this moment, I'm glad you're there. Sorry. Yeah,
I would have gotten you all sick, and I would
have done it on purpose. I know, yeah, I know

(01:26):
you would have Germans, you'd be throwing your germs right
in our faces. Get your get your chucking germs out. Um.
So this week, uh, we wanted to dig a little
bit deeper into the differences between Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

(01:48):
UM feels personally, I feel like I've been talking about
this a lot lately. Cody and I talked about it
a little bit on our other show last week. UM.
And I know it might see like we're harping on
Warren and Sanders a lot, which I guess we are,
But I think that's the majority of our listeners are
probably split between the two of them, and voting starts

(02:10):
for some of you guys like now, So it feels
like now is the time to have this conversation. Yeah, yeah,
that's fair. Um. And I think it's as conversations are good,
discourse is great. Everybody has a good time during it.
Nobody hates it, nobody gets m I think it's a

(02:31):
good Uh. It's a good time because it's a constant
reminder of the fact that this is the worst year
ever for everybody. And I know that in the past
few weeks at least for me, and leading into the
year that we're currently in. Uh, it has felt so
much like I don't always has a little bit like

(02:54):
never really ended, and it never really will. It never will.
We're stuck there and that's the o G. We're Yeah, yeah, absolutely,
it was the worst year, and we're reliving just like
heightened diversions of it every every year, so they do
get worse, see it worse. But that was like alright,
it's time. Yeah, it's time for only bad years from now. Yeah. Yeah,
this this conversation definitely feels like we're back in in

(03:19):
a lot of ways, um, especially now, like recently it's
been like, oh, by the way, we're gonna again. And
I guess part of the reason why I think it's
important I'm gonna spen it positive here is that it's
it's these actually are two of the most progressive presidential
candidates that we've ever seen, uh, and we're lucky to
have them. I think a lot of my frustration around

(03:40):
this conversation comes from the fact that a lot of
people seem to forget that really quickly. We're all very
quick to paint Warren as a liar and Bernie as
an asshole or whatever it is that people want to
frame Bernie as and the media exacerbates this and soon
everyone is just piste off of each other. And uh, yeah,
So I just wanted to say that take a moment
of appreciation and for being fortunate enough to have two

(04:02):
great candidates and to even be having these conversations, we
don't actually have to take a moment. Yeah, that was
a moment. Um. So you're saying that she's not necessarily
a neoliberal show and he's not necessarily a sexist anti
semit exactly. I think the truth is somewhere in the
middle there. Um. Also, I mean, this is a scary

(04:22):
conversation for me to have. Every time we talk about it,
I get a lot of ship online from some of
you guys, and Okay, we're all worked up about all
of it. But part of this conversation, I hope is
to like uh, dial show a way to have these
conversations in a more productive manner. Well, Katie, before you
get into it, I want to try and just detract

(04:45):
perhaps some some some heat from you by starting this
episode with my contention that Bernard Sanders was the real
gunman on the Grassy Knoll who shot dead JFK. God
statement not ted Cruiz's dead. No, No, Ted Cruise's dad
was the AMMO man though. Okay, that's called bipartisanship right there. Okay,

(05:10):
that's why Bernie should be president. He's gonna bring us
all together. It's just it's all full circle. And like
I also want to say, I I don't I still
don't know who I'm voting for. A lot of people
are like, oh, you're just you're only going to ever
vote for Warren. I think, like, no, I I feel
the need to defend her because I think that she
gets mischaracterized and I like her, but it doesn't mean

(05:33):
that I'm necessarily voting for her. So anyway, my two
cents on all that sense, because you're yeah, I mean,
like you're saying, like, she's not Hillary Clinton. There are
issues I have, but like it's not the same and
being seeing that it's treated as the same thing, it's
probably frustrating. So okay. Uh, Like I mentioned last week
on even More News, we talked about this whole he said,

(05:56):
she said, woman running for president controversying, and then we
had a larger conversation about the toxic climate online surrounding
this whole election and the sexism that we still seem
to be struggling with as a party. Um, And it
was an interesting conversation, and I think that a lot
of you guys also agreed us, so we wanted to
keep that going. Um. But yeah, if you if you
remember seeing and reported that last year, Elizabeth Warren and

(06:18):
Bernie Sanders had some sort of a meeting to discuss
policies and got into a dispute as to whether or
otto woman could win the presidency. Bernie denied the allegations,
saying that it was a discussion about how Trump would
manipulate any weaknesses. And again, I don't want to spend
too much time talking about this right now. Yeah, it
just really disappointed me how so many people's initial reaction
was to immediately jump to, uh, you know, she's a liar,

(06:40):
And then there was just this huge, aggressive and disproportionate
online blowback against her, like millions of snake emojis, hashtags
calling her allying snake, calling for rephones for their donations, etcetera. Um,
and I personally perceived the snake symbol as uh in
this specific context, as as being sexist. I know that
not everybody agrees with me. I know that you don't Cody. Um,

(07:04):
we can get into that if you want. But even
outside of that, to me, the immediately jumping to the
conclusion that she is the liar is kind of sexist.
It's like he said, she said situation, and immediately people
assumed that she is the wrong party in here. And
I think the truth of the matter is that it's

(07:25):
something that's much more great than that. I think that
they're probably both right in their perceptions of how that
conversation went. It's room, there's room for that. Yeah. Um,
I mean I think again, like we're not going to
get super into what we've already talked about, but I
think that my main a lot of my pushback was
about the media and how they framed it and how
they continued to frame it um, and how her response,

(07:51):
like during the debate was sort of an embrace of
the framing that CNN was going for, like the uh oh,
so Bernie, you're saying you didn't say this, Yeah I
didn't say that, Sota, what did you say when he
said that? And her response was, well, I disagreed. So
that's accepting the narrative that they're framing to get that answer.

(08:13):
And I think and the way my response to that
is like, yeah, I mean, if that's how she interpreted
this conversation, if that's how it plays out in her mind,
part of me is like, why should she be expected
to like back down from that. She's angry, but she didn't.
If she didn't like the story, then it was just
like a leaked story about her like private conversation. So

(08:39):
is it that a kind of thing where she's like,
I'm mad about this and I want to talk about it. Well,
she's being everybody's talking about it, and she's being put
on the spot to talk about it, and I think
that the whole conversation about it has been unfair and
she's probably even more angrying. I mean, that's reading into it.
That's my interpretation because to me, I'm just sitting here
imagining myself in that conversation and you're talking to one

(08:59):
of your dear friends where you're very much aligned and
being told as a woman that you can't do something
that you really want to do. It's humiliating. I would
feel humiliated if I was her and this story came
out and in that moment with somebody that she really respects,
I bet she was pissed. I don't think she leaked it.
I know that she talked about it like a year ago,

(09:21):
and then this story gets circulated again now at this
point in time. I have also said this on the
other show. The accusations that she did it on purpose
seemed really far fetched to me. Maybe somebody pushed it
from her side. Well, we don't see any evidence of
that from what I can tell. And she has running
a campaign that is so staunchly avoided this kind of

(09:42):
a conversation that it doesn't make sense to me, and
it's hurting her. It's hurting her. I I doesn't logically,
it doesn't make sense to me. I hear your argument that,
like you feel like she should have squashed it at
that moment. Yeah, maybe maybe maybe, but I don't know.
I don't know that I would have wanted to. I
think that I would be a little bit fed up.

(10:03):
And that's my Yeah, that's my perspective. By not squashing
it or not, like like by accepting their narrative. Like
later that day, CNN had a headline like, the candidates
debate on whether or not a woman can be president
and like literally nobody was debating that and that's obnoxious. Again,
and even like We've had this conversation about what Trump
will probably do uh in the election. As we saw

(10:25):
in sixteen two weeks before this big thing about this
private conversation between friends broke, Joe Biden on camera in
front of reporters for people to see, said the exact
same thing he said in Hillary Clinton had to deal
with a lot of sexism. I won't have to deal
with that. It's the same thing, and nobody cares. Nobody

(10:46):
brought it up. It's not the thing, um, So I
so it's I'm always I'm just I completely agree with
you about that. I think that that's bizarre and uh
and blatant moves by the media and all of this,
and they certainly exacerbated this, but I want us to
be able to see it happening and to not immediately

(11:08):
jump to attacking the woman and then women and people
online that support them the woman in question, Like, it
just feels very ugly to me, um and personally, especially
in the in the thick of all that, I felt
like a little bit, a little bit betrayed in a way.
And that's the extreme version of it. Uh. You know,

(11:30):
when I think about people who I want, I assume
in general were allied with, UM are incapable of like
taking a step back and and and thinking about it
from a female perspective. This whole situation, just this situation, UM.
It it bothers me. And I've said this before, and

(11:51):
that's also this reaction kind of makes me think that, yeah,
a woman can't when in this climate if the people
on our side, UM are so quick to jump to
these conclusions about her. Yeah, I think a lot of
it might come down to the fact that, like we're
all having this filtered through the media that exists in

(12:12):
this country, in the mainstream media that exists in this country, UM,
which is not only bad at journalism, UM, but also
exists to stoke division and disagreement in discordance because that
makes for better television UM. And I think that's a
major factor and why this got out of hand as
quickly as it did. And I do think that it

(12:33):
may have and the impact of actually kind of exaggerating
how difficult it is for a woman to become president
in this country. UM. And And I will say it's
one of the few things that that makes me happy
that the media ecosystem in this nation is collapsing in
on itself. Like a dying star. Um. Because it's it's
very irresponsible, and I do think it's making it hard

(12:55):
for anyone to really know where the people of this
country lay on issues like this, and also is making
you know, is creating these sort of conflicts that would
not in a responsible media ecosystem, this never would have
been a story. Um. And I think that's frustrating. It's
as frustrating as, for example, the media's obsession with the

(13:15):
fact that Bernie Sanders used a man liquor carcano rifle
to shoot JFK when he was driving to Dallas. Um.
They won't show, yes, it's not a it's an Italian
made rifle, it's not an American made rifle. But if
you look at what was available on the civilian market
at that time and what was a coomfordable working man's
option for shooting the president exactly exactly Bernie Sanders, you know,

(13:38):
is going to pick like the affordable working person's choice,
you know, even if that means not buying American, and
I for one support that, thank you, Robert. It's like
I mean, is a campaign slogans not me, nobody, Nobody's president.
I'm a president killer. Um. I think that it that
we should transition to talking a little bit about Bernie

(13:59):
Brow since we've been talking about online climate, whether or
not they exist. Cody and I have slightly different perspectives. Well, also,
I'm going to speak about this, but also because I
sort of to your point where you're talking about like
you felt sort of betrayed by the reaction to the situation. Um,
I've also talked to a lot of women who felt
betrayed on the other side of it. I'm sure I

(14:21):
certainly don't speak for all women, right. Well, right, so,
I just wanted to make sure that I'm sort of
communicating that you're speaking for other ones exactly. Thank you,
Thank you, Cody for framing it like that. No problem, No,
but it's true. I I don't want to pretend like
I represent everybody. That's just my perspective, and um, I

(14:42):
a lot of people that I speak with, And granted
that's because you know you, I have my friends like
the people that I'm aligned with and you communicate with.
But it's difficult because again, Bernie and Elizabeth are two
great candidates, and I think a lot of people that
are still waffling between feel attack for still liking her,
and it becomes difficult for a lot of people, the

(15:06):
idea that it is difficult to say, like that they're
going to capitulate or whatever and start supporting Bernie. And
that's not fair, it's not good, you know. But I'm worry.
I worry about this dialogue alienating people, which again is
a good transition to talking about the whole Bernie bro
phenomenon um, the alleged phenomenon, alleged phenomenon. Cody does not

(15:30):
believe that it exists, or to the degree that they believe.
Let me please, I'm sorry. I think that sexism is
a problem in America, UM and the globe, and also
that every candidate has a very passionate, slash toxic supporters.

(15:51):
And I think that, uh, like I said, sex is
a problem, and uh, you can see it, and we'll
talk about this a little more later, but you can
see it from everyone. You can see it in every
person's campaign, all their supporters. UM. I think that the
Bernie Bro specific thing um is blown out of proportion,

(16:11):
like we've talked about by the media um to create
uh divisive narrative. And also because they hate Bernie Sanders specifically,
and I don't disagree with you that the media exacerbates
like I can't, don't, but I have such a different
experience than that, and and I think so many other

(16:32):
people do that. It's really hard to accept that because
I feel it very intensely, and I know, I know
that it's a problem across the board. Let me just
finish this point really quick. I know that it's a
problem across the board, and that sucks. We need to
stop it, stop talking to each other like this. But specifically,
there are a lot of people that feel and the

(16:55):
Bernie we don't have to call Bernie bros. That's offensive name.
Now it's become pejorative. But like you know, there's an
aggressive type of reaction online particularly and it's very alienating,
it's very offensive. It's hard for me to accept that
it's all just the media because I see it every

(17:16):
day personally, and I know that a lot of other
people do as well. Um yeah, well, and that's I
mean again, I'm not speaking for I've I've just seen
so many, uh so many women online who are like
Bernie Sanders fans who have just like screen grabs and
screen grabs of the exact same thing that you're describing.
Sum and it's hard to gauge, like like I do,

(17:40):
see so many, so many takes of like, yeah, it's
a problem in general, but it's worse with Bernie Sanders.
I haven't seen there's no data on that. It's all
how do you gauge that? It's all just sort of
this anecdotal thing um And I think that having that claim,
and like you'll see, especially in the past like a
week and a half, uh is Sanders is growing and

(18:02):
growing in the polls and popularity. There have been like
five articles about Bernie bros Sure, and I think that's
all they have. And that's why I resisted so much,
especially the name, because it it I hear like, well, no,
it's not even because it's not. I don't think it's
a Bernie thing. I think it's just like there's there's

(18:22):
sexism and misogyny, and some of them happen to support him,
but it's not a him problem. He's like the only
candidate who's actually but he's the only candidate who's who
said like, don't do it. He's the only one about it.
It's great. I'm not blaming Bernie. I'm talking about us.
What can we do to control ourselves as we navigate

(18:43):
the worst year ever. If you do not want that label,
what can we do not to put that all on you?
Universal you? What can we do to detract from the
potency of this story? How can we behave better to
each other? And it's not just Bernie people, Sure, how
can we all do that? But it's indisputable that this
exists because people are are passionate about their candidate and

(19:05):
I love that, especially people from marginalized communities that see
him as like being a real shot. I get that.
But there there's a problem right now with how we're
talking about it. And yes, the media is exacerbating it.
So let's take the power away from it. Let's stop
doing it. Well, So I guess that's I mean, I
don't disagree with anything you said. I just think that
part of the problem is literally the term and what

(19:28):
we're talking about now. It's still being framed like this
Bernie brow thing. In uh twenty eight there are articles
about Obama boys and like, again, it's not. And but
then they're also like all articles about like Clinton supporters
posting child porn and Facebook groups to get them banned
and things. It's everywhere. It's not this thing. I think

(19:49):
part of how we talk to each other better is
not uh, it is using this framework that the media
is starving for step that it it's it's for a
lot of us. It feels much more potent within the
Bernie movement. And again I understand why, and I understand
and you see it differently. I mean, if you we're

(20:12):
supporting Warren, maybe you would feel more of that heat
online and you would have a different perspective. But I
accept what you're saying. I understand where you're coming from.
We have to take a break now. This has been
so fun so far. Though it's one of the best
days of the best year. It's been as fun as
when Bernie Sanders and Ted Cruz's father teamed up to

(20:35):
give this nation a little shot in the arm, just
a little, just a little how do you do? Uh? Cool?
You know? Products and services? And then more of this
together everything don't cool. We're back on that break, more

(20:59):
of our restation. We're gonna move on to other fresh
new topics soon. But real quick, Uh, Cody, why don't
you talk to us about that New York Times article? Yeah?
So this this is a recent New York Times article
that came out about Bernie Bros. And it's one of
again many that came out recently because they're all very
very scared UM. And I think it's very indicative of

(21:22):
kind of the problem with just like accepting this narrative
wholesale and and I personally am I'm just resistant to
it because I know what they're doing. Um. This New
York Times piece about the Bernie's Army of trolls is
it's written by three people. It seems like a lot
for an article about Bernie Bros. But that's fine, and

(21:46):
they're just these some passages in there that I think
are very interesting. But one one of their main sources
for this article, uh was a woman named Candice Um
and it was about all the abuse she's gotten harassment UM.
And one thing they don't seem to mention is that
she is like a notorious troll who harrasses people online. UM.
They're like writers for other publications who've talked about how

(22:10):
she after they blocked her, she would send them emails
and go to their other social media platforms to like
harass them, which again is interest. So I'm gonna read
these passages real quick, um from the article. But it's
interesting that they didn't point out that she does the
exact same thing. And then like vicious like sexist things too.

(22:32):
There's a lot of sexism there, but this passage um
describing the behavior they swarm someone online more commonly, there
is a barrage of jabs and threats, sometimes framed as jokes.
If the targets a woman, and uh, it often is
these insults can veer towards her physical appearance. It just
sort of describes this behavior of Bernie Brow specifically, and

(22:52):
then there's this one short paragraph. His allies also argue
that online combat is not unique to the Sanders side,
with some high pro file women who support the senators
saying they've been attacked too. And I think the way
that they've phrased this is really interesting because on the
one hand, you have this article describing a behavior like

(23:13):
they do this, they do this, they do this, they
do this, and then there's this very short passage and
some people say that it's this, it's uh a descriptive
factual statements and then this sort of passive like and
then some people say that it's actually another thing. And
when you literally using a source that engages in that

(23:36):
exact BASI. And I'm not saying that a lot of
this like this is representative of what you've experienced or
like the kind of messages you get, but the way
they frame it. There's this one passage of describing John
Legend how he's going to vote for Warren, and he's like, hey,
and you know all the you know, I'm going to
vote for whoever in the primary. So everybody chill. To

(23:57):
quote New York Times, this did not necessarily lay end
with its intended audience. Quote some of you millionaires need
to realize that many of us actually need Bernie Sanders
to win the presidency. One account replied, we can't just chill.
And that's like their example of like, yeah, they should
have showed all of the snake poop emojis and stuff. Sure,
but even that so like this, I mean, we don't

(24:18):
need to talk about that much. But I this sending
snake emojis to a politician is like, I don't know
they're politician. Yeah, I think it's it really depends on
the context. But we don't need to get derailed by
that this article. I see what you're saying. Um, it's
one of the things that's frustrating to me about coverage
like that is that it it sort of acts as if,

(24:39):
um like, I've had responses where like I express an
opinion and get swarmed by a bunch of assholes who
are being wildly unreasonable and aggressive about it for basically
every opinion that I've ever expressed. Um Like, it's like
there's there's communities of like if you take a stance
on something on the damn Internet, um, you're going to

(25:03):
like there's a good chance you'll attract a bunch of
harassment from it, because that's the Internet. If you attack.
For example, if I insult Elon Musk, I will deal
with Elon Musk fan boys when I mentions if I
insult Andrew Yang, I will deal with Andrew Yang fan
boys in my mentions. And neither of those guys get
the New York Times being like, this is a problem

(25:25):
that that you know, Andrew Yang has to address, or
this is a problem that Elon Musk has to address. Um.
But it's treated as if it's like some unique aspect
of the Sanders campaign, when I don't think it is.
I think it's just the fact that like it's a
it's an it's fandom. Bernie has a dedicated fandom, and
dedicated fans will do abusive, shitty things to people who

(25:46):
attack the thing that they the thing that they're a
fan of. And that's true of Bernie. It's also true
of for example, Star Wars. Yeah, I mean, or Donald Trump.
It's true. You know, you're you're both right about that.
But I think it's undeniable how much of it is
happening right now around this conversation and around Bernie. I mean, yes,

(26:07):
you put it something out there, and you're going to
get responses from people. You're putting it out there, and
who knows what's who's going to read it, and some
people are gonna agree with you and some people aren't.
It feels unique to me, and I've been on a
woman online for a long time now around this conversation,
I mean, just the nature of a lot of the responses.
How about how many people respond to me saying that

(26:27):
Cody needs to talk sense and to me, that's fucking sexist.
I'm sorry. I don't get that from other people and
other conversations and other candidates anyway. Now I'm getting worked
up about it, but yeah, I hear you. I I
think that there wouldn't be that different of a reaction
if you were a man and we had this disagreement
on and talked about on the podcast a lot. Maybe

(26:48):
I don't know, Katie and your soft brain have Cody
talks some sense and do you does not feel necessarily
like phrasing someone and would say to every person Internet,
it's like, it's like, do not mean to make this
heated and personal. I'm sorry for that, but I agree
with you and I think and I do think it's

(27:09):
a problem across the board. And that's why I said
what I said earlier, which is that I I wanted
to be better within the Bernie camp, but I also
wanted to be better across the board with all of
us in this conversation. But I think that we should
move on to other topics. How do you guys feel
about that? You don't want to have more fun? I
do want to. I want to have more fun with
other things. UM, let's talk about some endorsements that they
both have been getting because they've both had a big week.

(27:32):
A lot of people have attacked Bernie for accepting the
endorsement of the Dallas Book Depository, but you know it's
done a lot for him over the years. The only
endorsement they've ever given, they've ever given, and I think
we should be able to move on as a nation
at this point. I accept that I agree with you.

(27:53):
Let's uh talk about the des Moines register because Warren
scored that one this week. It's a pretty big deal
because hidering that the Iowa caucus is just days away. Um.
You know, at the top of the article they have
a list of the highlights, which include many of her
ideas aren't radical, they are right. Uh, she must show
that her vision will lift people up rather than divide them.

(28:14):
She cares about people, and she will use her seemingly
and endless energy and passion to fight for them. Um.
The outstanding caliber of Democratic candidates make it difficult to
choose just one. So I know you've got some thoughts
on this. Um. I'll just start by saying, I know
a lot of people have pointed to the many of
her her ideas aren't radical. Line is you know, kind

(28:35):
of proof that she's the more centrist of the candidate.
And I guess that's true of the two. And then
as we were going to talk about their different policies
soon and I think you'll see that they aren't that
much different. There's some like key differences. Um So to
me that she's not that her ideas aren't that radical

(28:56):
is like, well, she's really not that different than Bernie. Yeah.
Think it's more just like the phrasing of like clearly
like they're trying to be like, don't worry, she's not
that radical. She's like she used to be a Republican. Guys,
important to keep in mind that this is like a
much more conservative state, and you know, so they're trying
to appeal to who's the voters of this publication and

(29:20):
who vote there? Um, but yeah, go ahead and say
what your thoughts. Oh, I just I just wanted to
make a quick note about the Des Moines Register endorsement,
and I guess endorsements in general. Um uh so the
past candidates who have been endorsed by the Des Moines Register.
I'm gonna go back to like late eighties, I think, Um,

(29:41):
Paul Simon, not who you're thinking of, Paul Simon, Bob Dole,
Bill Bradley, George W. Bush, the second, I guess, Georgia
Lady Bush. I'm gonna start this list again. Hold on, uh,
Paul Simon, Bob Dole, Bill Bradley Bush to John Edward,
Hillary Clinton in two thousand and eight, as well as

(30:02):
John McCain, Clinton and Ruby On. So of all of those,
I think only two of them, actually one Iowa, like
the Iowa Caucus specifically, and of all of them, only
one was as was the president. Um. And we don't
need to talk about the two thousand election. But and
this isn't to say that like it's not cool that

(30:22):
she got it. Uh. There's a video of her learning
the news that's actually very very cute, um, and it's
like she's like really excited. It's like great uh for
the campaign. But and so I'm not saying like it
doesn't matter. I'm just saying that it's not like this
big thing. And endorsements in general these days, like the
New York Times endorsement where they split it down the
middle and they chose to and like they treated like

(30:43):
a reality show, uh, even though they hate the reality
show President. Um. This and sort of a little bit
about what Rob was talking about earlier, and just sort
of the the slow deterioration of uh, these institutions and
journalism in general. I think this is a good example
of it where like does it really matter? Does did
the endorsement move the needle at all for any Klobachar?

(31:06):
I doubt it? Um maybe maybe a few people, sure,
But but like just in general, uh, endorsements at all? Right,
anything like doing a whole like these are your endorsement points.
But it's two thousands, Uh, Donald Trump became the president?
Does any of this matter? Right? Another point? Another thing

(31:27):
that was included in this endorsement, uh, a qualification. Some
of her ideas for big structural change go too far.
This board could not endorse the wholesale overhaul of corporate
governance or cumulative levels of taxation she proposes. While the
board has long supported single payer health insurance, it believes
a gradual transition is more realistic approach. But Warren is

(31:47):
pushing in the right direction. Yeah. Basically, we're the New
York Times and we don't support doing anything. Uh this
is the register, yes, but consistent. Um. Yeah, you want
to say, oh yeah, I think that's it's we'll probably

(32:09):
talk about this a little bit more. And it's amazing
specific stuff. But like the phrasing pushing in the right direction,
I think it's a big distinction. There's between pushing in
the right direction and like doing the right thing, and
it's being like, no, this is what we're gonna do.
We're gonna fight for this thing that is right, as
opposed to we're going to push in the right direction.
You know, it's the the Buddha Judge plenty Bold kind

(32:30):
of I get why that's annoying, and I agree. I
don't like that part. Um. Let's talk about Bernie and
Joe Rogan, Joseph Joseph Joseph Biden net Rogan. Of course.
Earlier this week, Joseph Biden at Rogan endorsed Bernie Sanders.
I will say real quick, he didn't necessarily endorse him.

(32:51):
He said quote, I'm probably gonna vote for Bernie. Yeah,
we can play the clips, but we don't need to. Yeah,
And like it's you know obviously, like that's that's showing support.
And he went on to talk about it, but like this, like,
oh he endorsed him, No, okay, but an endorsement. I'll
probably vote for him. I don't know if that's an endorsement,

(33:12):
but he Joe Rogue endorsed him. Yeah, point taken, um,
And I don't have a problem with that. That's great.
The conversation about this was confusing online because like, that's
not a problem people are it's great. I don't know

(33:34):
people have been saying for a long time. Okay. So
a lot of the a lot of the blowback against
this came from the fact that Joe rokean has uh
said horrible things about trans people in the past, and
so there were folks being like, I don't know if
I'll vote for burning now that he's like, now that
he's uh touting this endorsement, and like what, I don't know,

(33:57):
Like it's one of those things where I didn't see
what Bernie like Bernie's the way he touted the the endorsement,
so to speak, was very carefully not endorsing Joe Rogan.
It was quoting Joe Rogan saying something nice about Bernie,
which I see is fine. Like, I get why people
are angry at Joe Rogan. I am permanently angry at

(34:17):
Joe Rogan, but I think it's shortsighted to take issue
with a guy that influential being like, yeah, I vote
for Bernie Sanders. That's a positive thing. That is a
positive thing. I have a slightly different perspective in that
I mean, I'm not extraordinarily pissed at Bernie for sharing,

(34:40):
for retweeting that. I don't think it was necessary. And
I think that again, we can't possibly speak for everybody
I've seen. I've tried to just participate, Like watch the
conversation unfold, you know, I think that it's I don't
think that they he gets more votes by sharing it.
I think that he offends a lot of people within

(35:01):
his base, and a lot of people aren't but a
lot of people don't care. But there are a lot
of people whose existence Joe Rogan kind of denies, and
that supporting him, and and I don't see what is
gained by that, because anybody following Bernie that likes Bernie
isn't convinced by Joe Rogan. The fact that Joe Rogan

(35:21):
said he's probably going to vote for him, great, that's
all that him him saying that on the show is
what does it? Also, like the conversation that they had
when he was on, and like the comments and that
it's like okay, yeah, it's clearly like it's an effective thing. Um,
And I think and like I totally understand, and I like,
I like you said, like I've mostly just been listening

(35:42):
to what people have to say about it. I've seen
a lot of people the trans community have issue with it,
and a lot of people not have issue with it.
I think what the better move is because it's not like, oh,
look we got Joe. It's presenting what he said and saying,
look at how convincing we are. It's not saying that like,

(36:02):
oh we got Joe and we like him, which they
didn't say, but it's presenting it like, look at how
effective this is deposit. That's something that surro gets and
what people can do like AOC and they could say
something like we there's since there's a little bit distance,
they can say something like we understand that Joe Rogan

(36:23):
maybe does we don't agree with him on all X,
Y or Z, but here's how we can abridge the divide.
We'd love to have AOC on the show so she
can talk to him about these issues, but we didn't
do that. That's not what happened. That's all. That's that's
my whole perspective. But I also don't think that it
makes that's inherently it just everything should come down and
not Yeah, everything should come down and notch Um because Yeah,

(36:46):
and I think it is a good point to say,
look at how convincing we are. There was no compromise there.
The platform hasn't changed, his opinions haven't changed. In order
to get Joe's endorsement, he stuck to his guns, and
that's what was convincing. Um. I think that's the argument.
They're not necessarily lifting up this. Uh you know, like

(37:06):
transphobic guy who's had a lot of like pretty horrible
people on the show to sort of spread their false message. Um.
Also just real quick on this issue. This is again,
like you said, like bring it down and notch everybody. Um.
And it's another example of uh never Trump Republicans, uh

(37:27):
centrist lib pundit folk two pounce on an issue and
use like the trans community and other communities as like
a cudgel to beat Bernie Sanders down. Yeah. I've I've
seen more rage about this, particularly from like kind of
centrist Democrat media people online, than over any of the awful,

(37:51):
actual awful things that Donald Trump has done to harm
trans people in the United States. M even like Hillary
Clinton had Democrat responsible to this. Yeah, Hillary Clint had
transport comments like earlier last year or like late last year. Um,
but that wasn't an issue yea, even though like uh

(38:12):
like a few days ago, uh like right after this happened. Uh,
Pete Buddha Jedge got endorsed by Charlemagne and and uh
it's the King of the not Charlemagne historical figure talking
about Charlotmagne and the god he hosts the Breakfast Club

(38:36):
radio stuff. Big Pete fan video of Pete with him
being like, look I got I got Charlemagne, and it's
just sort of it's it's literally like what did that happen?
I don't know, but it's like it's even it's a
further step from what the Bernie campaign did. It's him
literally in a video being like, look, I'm with him
and we're doing an event together. It is him like

(39:00):
really touting the endorsement. But like he's talked so he
said so many transphobic things in his career, Like two
years ago. He has this whole thing about how it's
okay if families want to keep their bloodline pure and
like compared it to like dog breeding and stuff. Just
like some pretty like racist transphobic stuff. Nobody cares. People

(39:21):
aren't making hay out of this they're not being like
Pete needs to denounce this pizza, Pete, Pete. And it's
because I don't think that. Yeah, I hear you. And
and it's just it's just another example like the using
these little things that that our conversation is worth having
U that the media pounces on and use it as
like we finally got them. They are problem. It's very frustrated. Um,

(39:46):
we gotta take a quick break for more products and services.
Welcome together ever back from that little break. I love breaks.
I love breaks as much as Bernie Sanders loves taking

(40:07):
the succession of American presidents into his own hands with
the cold steel of an Italian rifle. Um back into
the left, back into the far left, right, back back
into the far left. Which is actually not what happened
after the Kennedy A situation assassination anyway, Uh, I don't know.
Before we move on, I kind of wanted to talk
about something that frustrates me, just about the whole Joe

(40:30):
Rogan debate, which is, um, there are no debates h
on the other side about what works. It's just purely
a matter of taking and holding and exercising power. Um.
And I don't I'm not advocating uh like an embrace
of of soulless, sociopathic uh politics of power, because that's

(40:53):
not what I want the left to be. But I
think a little bit more pragmatism is warranted to where
we and say, like it would be one thing. I
wouldn't be suggesting this if, for example, sanders Head softened
at all his attitudes on trans rights to get Joe
Rogan's endorsement. But he didn't. He just connected with Rogan
and his audience about other things that they agreed on.

(41:14):
And I think that makes uh, like, that's how what
we should be doing. Um, you're not going to by
the time rolls around convince everybody that uh it's reasonable
to be pro choice or that uh, you know, trans
people's rights are as important as we think they are,

(41:34):
as long as you're not conceding those points. If you're
getting those people to buy onto other aspects of your agenda, um,
then it allows you to continue to support pro choice,
pro trans politics while also making other things happen, um
and protecting all of these different communities, and hopefully over
time changing the opinions of these people. UM. Right, you

(41:56):
bring them in that. Yeah, I agree. I totally agree.
And that's why I found the whole conversation to be frustrating.
It it's like we're focusing on the wrong things here. Um,
let's talk a little bit about their platforms and the
ways that they're different and everything on a few of
the key issues here. Um, Cody, you have been digging

(42:19):
into a little bit. Um. Um, we want to start
with a wealth tax. Yeah, I mean this is, uh,
I think just a representation of sort of the difference
between the two. Um. You know, they're this warrant support
of a wealth tax is great. Um, Bernie's is a
little more aggressive. Um. And yeah, and so that's a

(42:43):
conversation of like what to me, they're probably both off
putting to certain sex of the population. Yeah. His his
gets his kicks in at thirty two point one million,
hers kicks in at fifty at one million. UM. I
do think it's interesting if there's certain people I've noticed

(43:05):
leaning towards Warren and then you look at their net
worth and it's in that range, it's less than fifties,
Like oh, you just don't want anything to kick in
and not like maybe not, but like, uh, that's a
fun little game that is worth playing. If you notice
a rich person leaning towards Warren. Also his I mean,
his plan is a progressive tax um. So it's slowly,

(43:26):
you know, it goes up as the wealth increases, So
it you know, fifty millions two percent and then to
fifty millions three percent, whereas hers is just two and
three percent difference there, and obviously I goes up to
eight Yeah, tax them, tax fu. Um. You know, there

(43:47):
is conversation that I don't know, I don't know how
how much more likely people that are on the fence
are to vote for Warren on this issue versus Bernie.
You know, like what how does it affect the electability
question and all of that. I wish, you know, because

(44:08):
I think that both of those these plans would be great,
but obviously one is better, right. Well. I think also
like we consider like who we're even talking about, like
in terms of millionaires, I think it's like a little
less than like five percent of the country. UM. So
in terms of like who what kind of voters it attracts? Um?
I guess do we need to worry about that? Really? Um?

(44:28):
And even like I mean, we won't get too much
into their Wall Street stuff, but like, uh, I think
there's there's there's some hedging of bets and sort of like, okay,
well if it's going to be Burnie or warrant her
because it's less aggressive. I think there's one other dimension
to it, which is that, um Like, obviously I I
am more supportive of Bernie Sanders is wealth tax because

(44:52):
it's more aggressive. But I think based on the latest statistics,
I saw Warren's polls much better and it actually a
majority of her publicans are supportive of it. And so
I think if the goal is to start with start
wealth redistribution and show Americans that it can work and
that it can fund these programs that we've been saying
are necessary for so long, um, it's possible that Warren's

(45:14):
strategy is a better tactical move because it's easier to get,
for example, conservatives on board with and then convince them, no,
you guys actually like having free healthcare and stuff and
this you know doesn't harm it a like yeah, and
then we can you know, push from more aggressive wealth
taxes down the line. Um. But I think that's an
important kind of dimension. I think that with a few

(45:36):
of her policies that seems to be the conversation that
we should will be having in and honestly the conversation
that I think that we should be focusing on instead
of stuff that about how the candidates are or are
not arguing over whether or not a woman can be
the president. Um. You know, it's the same thing with
the Medica for all, Like what what is the best

(45:56):
path to getting these things? Um? And I know that
also you the conversation about whether or not we can
trust her gets wrapped up into this. Well, but yeah,
I think it's a really great point, Robert, and something
that I I'm still grappling with and trying to think about.
And and see, I'm so excited to start seeing how

(46:16):
these primaries are going to be playing out, um, and
and and to get an action, start to get a
real grasp on like what is resonating with people outside
of just statistics? Um, yeah, do you want to do
about Yeah? And I think this, I mean this is
also like I think there's something you consider in terms

(46:37):
of like aggressive or not aggressive and how that appeals
to voters versus how passible it is as actual legislation, um,
and getting conservatives to go along with it, and like, yeah,
it's all part of and like we've talked about before, basically,
no matter what you propose, it's more than likely that

(46:59):
you're going to get less than what you propose, um,
just because of how our system works. So pushing for
as far as you can and then having to be like,
all right, well it's not going to be as much.
I guess. I mean, I I hear that, I I
hear that. It's just so hard to know. Um. Yeah,
talk some more. Yeah, I mean all Medicare for All

(47:23):
I think is probably the biggest one and sort of
speaks to Yeah, this sort of general issue, like what
you were talking about of like Robert, how a case
could be made for doing something to convince people that
going further is good, where like for her Medicare for All,
which she does still say she sports is to pass

(47:45):
legislation to like bring the age down, have it uh
people update teams, and that's just after that transitioning well,
after that, there'd be another like vote to expand it um.
Which again I mean, there's a lot to say and
and and that's another one that I'm I'm I'm not
sure still where I fall as to what's the the

(48:09):
right path? Can we trust her that always comes up.
Can we trust that's what she's actually going to be
driving towards. I don't see any reason not to, but
I understand that concern. I personally don't see any reason
not to. UM. Then I hear you, like, is that
shooting ourselves in the foot with this conversation, with this
fight require mid terms to right in order to hear that?

(48:31):
Or is it realistically that's how it's going to take
even even with the Bernie presidency. How is he going
to get us there? Um? Is this a more palatable plan?
It's an actual plan. I'll give her that, you know, UM,
as to how we're going to achieve this thing that
the majority of Americans want? Um. And yeah, that's so

(48:53):
I don't know the answer to that. Yeah, it's uh,
it's a debate worth having. UM. I do question. Yeah,
just like if you're if you're uh starting at we're
gonna do care for all? And then the plan comes
out it's like actually this several step plan that requires
this one thing first and then this um and again

(49:16):
like mid term is going well? Um, and then also
sort of talking about how like well we're not going
to get everything done that we say, um, which that politics. Yeah. Um.
Then like personally, I'm like, well, just say you want
to do the thing and and do that, um, because
then I at least believe that you want to do
that as opposed to the sort of like well let's

(49:38):
talk about some more things student deb Yeah, I mean
student debt. And like again this is like they generally
agree on a lot of things. We want, you know,
get getrit of private prisons, like a lot of the
big issues that are now uh standard for like being
a democratic progressive and like wanting like we want to
get rid of private prisons, we want to do this,

(49:59):
we want to do something about client to change. Um.
It's just the degree and the plan and uh yeah,
and how they how are they how are they plan
to distribute the money? How they planned? Like like Bernie
wants to get rid of all student debt? Uh those
the one wants to get rid of most of student debt,
Like I think people people up to fifty dollars student debt. Um,

(50:24):
that's a distinction, um one. Like yeah, they're both good. Um,
it's how far you want to go? Um. Similarly, like
like with climate change, Uh yeah, so they've got different types,
different amount of amounts of money that they're proposing, but
a different approach. Yeah, Like Sanders all in on like

(50:47):
this idea of a green new deal, like here's our
climate change legislation, um, not the war like for that,
but she sort of packages a lot of it into
other plans where she's like and when talking about the military,
we're gonna do that. I I would like there'd be
more money in her plan, but I also think that
that's a really effective and important approach to this is

(51:10):
to integrate all of these things into different areas. It's
in everything, it's a part of everything. Yeah. I mean
there's a reason that like whenever they have debates, someone
ultimately is like, why aren't we talking about climate change?
Or like why aren't we talking about climate change in
relation to this question? Um? Oh, and so sixteen what
sixteen point three trillion versus three trillion, I think is
the planned difference, And I agree, I think it's Yeah,

(51:32):
it's important to have climate change in mind in all
these other departments and plans. Um. Like when Trump's new
trade deal came out, Bernie, the whole thing about how
this doesn't mention climate And that's the one of the
main things that I've been disappointed about with Warren is
that she did go along with it. And I get it,
like the hassle of passing a new trade deal down

(51:55):
the line and this whole I understand the reason why,
but I do think that, yeah, let's not pass one
until it includes it. I agree with that, right, Yeah,
and yeah, little things like that um and related to
climate change. Like I think another example of kind of
what we're talking about. Bernie's talked about prosecuting x On

(52:15):
Mobile and really going after these companies UM, and Warren
hasn't not done that, But her approach is more about
creating rules that if they break them, they will be prosecuted.
Good to do. Yeah, I feel like it's kind of
the same thing ultimately, Like what does she she have

(52:37):
a quote here? If bad actors like x on break
the rules and deliberately lie to government agencies, my plan
will treat them the same way as the law treats
someone who lies in court by subjecting them to prosecution
for perjury. So that's great, And this is a part
of her plan, Like she's going to put these rules
in place so that if they lie and do it
X and Y, then they will be prosecuted. But I

(52:58):
don't think there is a difference between saying like, we're
gonna put in rules and if they break them, they're
gonna get prosecuted, and oh, yeah, they've lied to us
for decades and we're going to prosecute them. Like I
feel like it's pretty I hear you. I think I
think it's a minor distinction because it's gonna I understand,

(53:20):
it's not a minor distinction. He wants to prosecute them
for stuff that's already happened, and she's saying like, let's
move forward with these new regulations in place, and if
this happens, then we will prosecute them. Slight different. They
both seemed tough to me, but those just know they're
they're they're both tough. And that's that's the thing again,
the thing we're sort of talking about, like they're both good.
It's good that we have we have these two candidates

(53:41):
that exist, it's just the aggressiveness and and they're not.
And so a lot of this sort of brings me
to my real my my real thing, um and like
you're like, look at let's look into the policy, let's
compare and contrast, And my thing is that I don't
super care like about the very specifics of it, Like

(54:02):
it's like it's very similar to me when well, well, no,
it's not like medicare for all, and then how are
you going to pay for it? It's that where it's
like I don't care when talking about like a president
or a leadership, I'm less interested in the very specifics
of the plans because ultimately, people like you get a

(54:22):
policy team together and you make the policy and it's
all based off vision. And that's I think that that's
the thing that I care more about, is uh, having
vision and commitment to these things makes me a little nervous.
But I hear you. I understand what you're saying, Like
the role of a president of leader, it's like that.
It's why, uh, nowadays you might hear the phrase health

(54:48):
care is a human right, and you wouldn't have heard
that five years ago. Um, and there's a reason, and
it's because vision and leadership has pushed us to all
sort of adopt that. I do think that the next
to enacting that vision is a plan. I don't I know,
I agree. I'm just saying that, like the specifics of
that plan don't matter to you. That's not what I'm saying.

(55:09):
I'm saying that because all the things that we're talking
about now, like oh, we gotta do this, we gotta
do this, great this. I'm not saying Warren hasn't supported that,
but I'm saying that the reason we're talking about them,
and the reason that these ideas have taken over the
Democratic Party are because of this vision. Because of Bernie's vision,
I mean yeah, I mean he's the person that has
been him specifically obviously there's a movie behind it, but

(55:33):
like I think that has a lot to do with
care health care thing, um, and just in general, I
think that that that So, like when we're talking about
like what's uh this plan? Was this plan? Well, I
just want a person that I believe, but a person
that I believe believes the things that they say and
have been saying for decor you could probably understand. I
imagine why a lot of people do care about having

(55:56):
an idea that I'm not saying it doesn't, but he
has plans. I'm just saying personally, I'm like, yeah, um,
so before we leave here, I wanted to give room
for you know, other other points, Uh, specifically Robert, you
wanted to talk about the blood quantum stuff, and I
think that's pretty important to get into before we And yeah,

(56:17):
and this is obviously something that there's no comparison with
Sanders because Bernie Sanders did not labor, labor under the
misconception that he had Native American blood for decades. He
just killed the president. But but yeah, he is on
the lamb. He did. He did kill President Johns. That's
he's on the possible. You know, he's hiding from the cops.

(56:41):
I go, in a minute, they're after me. Uh, you know, No,
Bernie just wrote some weird erotic essays and when he
was younger. And we did talk about this a bit
on the on the Elizabeth Warren episode. But I think
that some of you guys um I wanted to hear
more about it, and I agree. I agree with you.
So let's let's yeah, and this is I wanted to

(57:02):
point out, like I'm not doing this is like an
attack on her. I've stated my opinion on like her
actual level of culpability. I think other than it being
really dumb, incredibly dumb decision, like, I don't think what
she did was like horrifically immoral or cruel. I think
it was pretty coming up growing up where she grew up,
in a community like the one she grew up, And
I think it's a pretty in knowing the air she

(57:24):
grew up and it's a pretty common mistake to have made. UM.
But a number of Native American folks reached out on
Twitter after the last episode where we talked about this
and wanted to make sure that I kind of pointed
out the context of why it was troubling, because there's
there's some really important information about UM kind of the
way Native American nous is determined legally, UM that what

(57:48):
she did fed into UM. That goes back pretty far,
and it's it's kind of important to talk about, and
it goes back to something called blood quantum, which is
a system that the federal government put on tribes in
order to limit the number of people who could call
themselves Native American UM and a number of Native nations
do not use blood quantum, but like the Navajo Nation

(58:09):
and the Turnal Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians and a
number of others still do use it. Um. How tribes
use blood quantum varies from tribe to tribe. The Navajo
require about of Navajo blood in order to call like
be considered Navajoternal Mountain requires any kind of Indian blood um,
but blood quantum minimums like um like. One of the

(58:33):
problems is that they were essentially set up back in
the day by the United States in order to ensure
that there would kind of always be a declining number
of of of Native Americans. So if you've got Navajo
blood um and you have children with somebody who has
a lower blood quantum, then your kids, by definition will
not be able to enroll as Navajo, which is like

(58:55):
one of the issues with the system. Um IF. In
an article which interviews a woman named Elizabeth Rule, she's
a doctoral candidate at Brown University, specializes in Native American studies,
and she's a Chickasaw Nation citizen UM, and she calls
this a colonial catch twenty two UM basically because like

(59:16):
there's kind of no perfect way to deal with this
problem because it's been sort of enshrined in law for
so long. UM And yeah, it's it's uh, it's a
really thorny issue and I'm not gonna be able to
give like a super complex like explanation of it. One
of the problems is that it doesn't go along with

(59:37):
how these actual tribes for thousands of years prior to
the United States like determined membership in the tribe. Most
of them didn't Obviously you couldn't do blood tests a
thousand years ago, so like that wasn't even really a
part of it. Like there's a long history of for example,
freed black people being fully incorporated into Native American tribes um.

(59:59):
And then when sort of like the blood quantum thing
like came into being because of the United States government,
these guys were basically kicked out of the tribes that
they've been fully accepted in because their blood wasn't Native
American UM. And so like it's it's a very like
complicated issue UM. And it basically guarantees that over time, uh,

(01:00:24):
Native Americans will basically breed themselves out of existence um,
which in a fortunate coincidence, means that the federal government
will no longer have to continue like maintaining the legal
obligations that they have to the treaties that they signed.
They gradually die out as a result of this blood
quantum thing and so kind of by UM. And again

(01:00:46):
this is like a very rough overview of of of
what the blood Quantum sort of is I think I'm
gonna do it behind the Bastards episode on just sort
of how UH tribes were treated by the US government
at some point that goes into this and more to tail,
but by um By specifically sort of trying to prove
her claim to Indigenous blood or Indigenous heritage by taking

(01:01:08):
a blood test, Warren sort of bought into this system,
which is very problematic and very heavily debated, and so
that's one reason why she attracted a sizeable amount of
criticism UM. But it's also sort of evidence that, like,
you know, again, her belief that she had this blood
comes down to um or who had this heritage comes

(01:01:29):
down to some very um incorrect ideas about Native American
heritage that have been passed through my people for a
very long time, particularly in Oklahoma. UM and her sort
of going with a blood test and John Lovett's suggesting
a blood test in order to to prove her heritage
is is, you know, buying into this long tradition And

(01:01:52):
so it's it's definitely a dumb and lame thing that
she and her campaign agreed to do. But more to
the point, it's like there's an incredibly long and lame
and shitty history that is attached to all of this.
And Uh, one of the deep frustrations of this election
is that if Elizabeth Warren continues to be a major

(01:02:13):
force in the election. Uh. And I like her politics
and I hope that she is a part of it. Um,
people like the president will continue to drag. It's just
gonna continue to be of real pain in the ass
for the Native American community. And that's us and I
And again, we didn't talk about this nearly enough when
we did her episode, but I do think we mentioned

(01:02:35):
it like that. That's a big caveat for me with
her is how she handled this situation. Yeah, I think
she made a mistake. I think that she could have
done a better job owning up to that mistake addressing it.
And if she does get the nomination, if she does continue,
I think that we would need to see that because
there's a lot of communities that are you know, are

(01:02:58):
rightfully upset about it, and this would be a good
opportunity to draw attention to an issue that most people
don't understand are aware of. And so there's that. I
am also worried about how Yeah, we're talking about things
that the president is going to use to weaponize against
his opponent. This is one of them. So it is

(01:03:19):
absolutely something that we need to keep in mind. I
I understand in a way, you know, like there's a problem.
It sucks our society, and that the time that she
grew up and where she grew up it but you know,
like and and and she grew up with this narrative,
and she grew up with this story that was false

(01:03:40):
of who she is. I don't you know, and and
she benefited from it. And she's white, you know, like
she is, Uh and and and she and and we
culturally super and we culturally have learned and changed. Um.
And you know, you'd like to think that if she
was a kid now, maybe it would be a different story.

(01:04:04):
This isn't making an excuse. I'm just putting it all
into perspective. But again, like I said, I think that
she handled it wrong. Yeah, And like being able to
I think being able to handle those kinds of things
and address those issues is really important leading up to
this year. Uh, like they're gonna throw so much stuff
in everybody, um, and how that's handled I think is important.

(01:04:26):
Like you know, like we're not going to talk about
Biden or anything. But you know, when he's criticized, he
steaks out. He can't handle it. He like grabs people
by the collars, like hey man. Uh, And like how
the criticism is addressed. I think is going to play
into it quite a bit so in terms of, like
just because I don't want to be uh, just stating
what I think are different Native American attitudes on this.

(01:04:47):
I actually want to quote um a medium article I
found from someone named Eli tatosian Um uh titled Warren
and the Blood Quantum that kind of goes into at
least this one. This one Indigenous person's perspective on um,
on all this uh and like how it's impacted their life. Quote.

(01:05:10):
Along with criticism of Warren, a wave of general distrust
and prove it began to spread through the United States,
placing a negative spotlight on Indigenous folks. This is after
her blood test, Uh, Suddenly the question of what percentage
are you held more weight and not in a good way.
And Kateie Cannon describes that one day, upon being asked
how Indian she was, the man asking her stated that

(01:05:30):
he was just trying to make sure you're not another
Elizabeth Warren. Warren's claimed created more pressure than ever for
Indigenous folks to prove their ancestry to people who were
not entitled to such information. Cannon states that Warren answers
the dog whistlers and a conversation about Indian uh indigenity
without Indigenous input. She makes it seem like the percentage
question is something that actually deserves an answer. Before Warren,

(01:05:53):
it was possible to brush off the percentage question, to
chuckle and chalk it up to a poorly phrased remark
from a well meaning person who just doesn't know any better.
Now that blood quantum has been solidified as a political maneuver,
I feel like the percentage question has lost its innocence. Yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah, whether intended or not justifying the thing, yeah,
I completely agree. Um, And it is. It is absolutely

(01:06:17):
a factor as to why I might not for her,
And it also plays into UM. It's interesting. There's that
old clip of Trump at a in a is in
court about his casino stuff. He's talking about Native Americans, uh,
and I think it's like about a claim to land,
and he's just like, well, they don't look like Native
Americans to me. Um. And it's just his that like

(01:06:38):
oh yes, yes, remember that. It's like sort of like
playing yeah, playing into remember when Donald Trump said that
in a court of law a couple of times he
appeared himself a bunch Actually is very weird, but uh,
just sort of like playing into his narrative and being
unable not his specifically, but like, uh playing into it

(01:07:00):
and not being able to really address it and justifying
where he's coming from. Um, it's going to be an issue. Okay,
Well we're getting the wrap it up sign by Sophie,
So that's what I'm going to do. I was going
to do it anyway. We are going to wrap it
up like Bernard Sanders wrapped up the presidency of John
Fitzgerald Kennedy. Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that home

(01:07:23):
scoped rifle so eloquently, so poetical. Thank you, thank you.
You guys can find us online on Twitter and Instagram
at worst your pod. Please find us online on Twitter
and Instagram, find us online at us um be mean
to us online, Please be mean to us online. Uh No,
A lot of you guys have been kind of like
profoundly abusive to me online, to them, not to me only,

(01:07:45):
And I think um, uh, say what you need to say.
Try to be kind about it. Uh. To everybody that's
reached out over the last week, I really appreciate you.
You're wonderful yourself. No, you're fine. I mean you're yeah.
Uh cool boy, howdy. I hope that all of this

(01:08:08):
joking about Bernie Sanders assassinating a former president uh has
not harmed our chances of interviewing him. Well, I mean,
he needs to answer for it someday. So Bernie, come
here and clear up the record. It's out there, it's
out there. It's out there. All right, all right, it's
out there, correct, Bernie disgusted? All right, I'll see you guys.

(01:08:33):
Everything everything so dull. I tried. Worst Year Ever is
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