February 23, 2022 • 44 mins
At 18, Clinton Young was the youngest and newest member of a group of four acquaintances after he was released from juvenile prison in 2001. One of the four men killed two people and went to the police to control the narrative. The other two joined the murderer's story, throwing Clinton under the bus. Despite evidence pointing away from Clinton, the 3 men's false testimony was enough to get Clinton convicted and sentenced to death. In 2017, he was granted a stay just a week ahead of his execution date based on newly discovered exculpatory evidence that implied false testimony was presented at trial. However, it wasn’t until 2019 that an investigation revealed one of the prosecutors on Clinton’s case, Weldon Ralph Petty, was also being paid to act as a judicial clerk, writing recommendations and signing orders on the same cases that he was prosecuting, leading officials to doubt the hundreds of cases Petty had worked on, including Clinton's. In September 2021, Clinton was finally granted a new trial and taken off of death row. He awaits a decision that determines if he will have a new trial or if the charges against him will be dismissed.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
In two thousand and one, at age eighteen, Clinton Young
was newly released from Texas juvenile prison and was the
youngest and newest member of a group of acquaintances with
David Page, Mark Ray, and Darnell McCoy. That November, Clinton
was present when David Page shot and killed two men
in separate incidents, Doyle Douglas and Samuel Petrie. After the
(00:22):
second incident, Clinton split from Page, who immediately went to
the police to control the narrative. All four men were
brought in, and while Clinton refused to cooperate, Ray and
McCoy joined Page in exchange for leniency. When it became
clear that Clinton was being targeted for the death penalty,
he made suggestions to police that turned up evidence corroborating
his innocence. However, that evidence was either explained away, ignored,
(00:46):
or disappeared. The state's case at trial relied solely on
the incentivized testimonies of Page, Ray, and McCoy. The defense
failed to point out conflicting details and inconsistencies in their
testimonies or the ballistics and d N evidence that corroborated
Clinton's version of events. Without access to destroyed or missing
evidence that exculpated Clinton. He was convicted and sentenced to death.
(01:09):
While Clinton's appeals were repeatedly denied. Growing evidence of Page,
Ray and McCoy's false testimony, as well as new forensic
evidence exculpate and Clinton eventually led to a stay just
a week ahead of his execution date. In soon, David
Page's confession on the record, along with the revelation of
significant prosecutorial misconduct affecting hundreds of cases, including Clinton's, led
(01:34):
the court to overturn his conviction. But he's not out
of the woods yet. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back
(01:55):
to wrongful conviction. So often since I started making this
show over five years ago, we do an episode where
I go, Okay, now I've heard everything, but today, now,
maybe up to today, I can really say that because
you're gonna hear some stuff today that is truly mind blowing,
even by the crazy standards of the rawval conviction cases
(02:16):
that we cover weekend and week out. Because this case
involves an innocent guy who ended up being sentenced to death,
We've heard that story before. It involves an advocate who
moved from the Netherlands to Texas so that she could
represent and try to get justice for our subject today,
Quentin Young, and get ready for this one. It involves
(02:39):
a prosecutor who was moonlighting writing opinions for the judge. Yeah,
you heard that correctly. The prosecutor was making a little
extra money on the side writing rulings in his own cases.
So now I can catch my breath and introduce the
very woman I was just talking to you about. I'm
(03:01):
proud to say, Attorney Meryl Plintier, welcome to wrong for conviction.
Thank you so much for having me Jason and now
fresh out of death row. Actually, those are some crazy
words even have to say. And live from the Midland
County Jail, we have our featured guest today, Clinton Young. Clinton,
(03:22):
welcome to ronful conviction. Thank you for the opportunity now
to explain this to our audience. Clinton is off the
death row. Otherwise I'd be conducting this interview in person
at the Polunsky Unit in Livingston, Texas, outside of Houston,
But instead he's on the phone from Midland County Jail,
where he's a way to get a decision about whether
he will be retried or perhaps released to a weight retrial,
(03:42):
or the charges may be dropped. Altogether considering the story
that you're about to hear, and I feel like I
really should give a bit of a disclaimer here. As
some of our guests have exhibited criminal behavior prior to
their wrongful conviction, that's definitely true for Clinton. I mean, he,
you know, who open a very difficult environment. You know,
had a history of drug use and car theft and
(04:04):
different run ins with the law, all of which are
just background that ultimately led to him being present during
the commission of two murders for which he bears no
culpability other than being next to someone who decided to
make that grim choice to kill the same person that
ultimately pointed to finger at him. Now, by his own admission,
(04:26):
he could have done more to bring that person to justice.
But the fact is he did not plan or take
part of these murders. So while you may not agree
with all of Clinton's choices, first of all, you can't
walk a mile in his shoes. And two, he didn't
actually kill anyone. He's innocent of both murders for which
he was convicted. But we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Clinton,
(04:47):
tell us about your life growing up, Well, I guess
I still have my life a chaotic path. Seventeen. My
father was very fild, a lot about his age, a
lot about having kids. He and up pregnant, they get married.
He was very, very very abusive to her and his
other children. So after she has me, he continues to
(05:08):
beat on her, so she finally leaves. In fact, my
dad basically kidnapped me from my mom and only would
give me back to her if she found papers saying
that she wouldn't request child support and all this stuff.
So fast forward some time you meet my stepfather and
they're moving together, they get married. I was hyperactive also,
and eventually the school decided to put me on a
(05:30):
d D medication Writhland, and they didn't help anything. You know,
it made me feel worse, and you know, I had
troms in school. Beyond that growing up, you know, my
stepfather unfortunately was an alcoholic and I wasn't his son.
Because there's usually a dynamic that takes place with stepchildren
and stepparents, there's usually a conflict. So then my mom
and my stepfather are arguing all the time because how
(05:52):
he asked forwards me, and so my home life was
really care already growing up, Well that would be such
a difficult situation to grow up and for anyone, and
from that environment, you ended up with some runnings with
the law, and those are minor things, relatively speaking, but
such that you ended up spending two and a half
years in juvenile prison in Texas. So this all started
in the long View area in Texas. Clinton just got
(06:15):
out of juvenile prison and I think that traumatized him heavily,
and he got addicted to drugs and started hanging out
with the people that you don't want your kids to
hang out with. Mark Ray, David Page, and Darnell McCoy,
his co defendants in this case. One day in November
two thousand and one, David Page, Darnelle McCoy, Mark Ray, Clinton,
(06:40):
and Doyle Douglas We're all sitting in a car and
they were on their way to buy drugs. Clinton was
sitting in the passenger seat and Doyle Douglas was driving.
The car was his car, and the other three were
sitting in the back. And as soon as they arrived
at the house where they were going to buy drugs,
David Page got out of the car, got up to
(07:02):
the front door of the house. There was some confusion.
There was no drugs. They didn't buy drugs. And David
Page walks back to the car and he's standing on
the left side of the car. Clinton is still sitting
inside on the passenger seat, and at that point Doyle
Douglas get shot in the head twice. David Page has
(07:24):
always said that Clinton was someone who did it, and
Clinton has always said that no, David Page did that.
And it's important to note that it doesn't really matter
what David Page said because Doyle Douglas's head wound support
Clinton's version of advance in the past and see the car.
Douglas was sitting in the driver seat of the car,
and they said, I saw a fact in the head.
(07:44):
There's no way I could have because he was shot
in the left side of the head and the back
of the head. How canst you the person and left
out of the the head and over three ft away if
I'm in the pasta side of the car. It's ridiculous.
So there isn't an opportunity really to agree or disagree
about this gunshot when you'd have to suspend all this book.
What they all agree on was that after that happened,
the body of Doyle Duckas was put into trunk and
(08:07):
they drove to a secluded area in the woods where
the body was dumped and Mark Ray shot Doyal Douglass
a third time in the head. Now after that, they
all get in the car, Doyle Ducklass his car, and
Darnielle McCoy and Mark Ray are dropped off at their
homes while Clinton and David Page drive off and Clint
(08:32):
was going to go see his girlfriend, who was at
that time in Midland on the other side of Texas,
and David Page decided to ride along with him, and
after a few hours in the car, David Paige didn't
want to drive around in Doyle Ducklass his car, so
he decides he needs a new vehicle. They stopped at
a Brookshire store parking lot and a man named Samuel
(08:57):
Petrie is kitnapp apped and his car is taken in.
According to David Paige's own most recent confession, as he
walked up to Samuel Petrie's car holding that gunpoint and
said you're coming with us? And and Clinton, did you
know this was happening? I didn't see him kidd napped.
(09:18):
I was inside the store and I walked out and
David Page was sitting in the truck talking about that.
What's up? And he's like, well, we needed a bighicle.
So I got back in the car and I got
David Page's gun and I emptied it, and I even
told Mr Petrie. I said, look, man, trying to free
to six choices. Now, I said, look, don't worry about nothing.
That guns empty, man. Okay. He's like, I don't understand.
(09:39):
I said, little man, the situation that I was control,
we gotta just start sold everything out, okay, but just relax.
The guns empty. And by that time Page got back
in the truck and I gave the guns back to Page.
But I didn't tell if it was empty. I was
just trying to figure out how the best resolve it
in the best way possible. Right. I'm not saying I
made the right choices in life or anything like this,
but I took effort to make there's nothing happened to
(10:00):
this man. I saw a sleep sword after that. Right
sometime period wh when I was asleep, he found out
the gun was empty. I woke up at Midlands and
I told David paigeaid, look man, she he pet this
do go man, I mean this ship needs to end.
So I ended up calling my girlfriend on the phone
and I told Page. I said, oh, man, I accidentally
used the phone. I said, look, looking, Cael happened to
(10:21):
this dude, because there's gonna trace it back on us.
In my mind, I thought I was doing the smart
thing right, trying to protect Petrie. I talked to my
Eggs and she says that the police are looking for
David Page. And I looked over the Page. I said, hey,
they say you need to talk to your dad because
the Texas Rangers I'm looking for you. He said for what,
And I said, to put the stuff to happen. He's texts,
I guess, and why When I said that, I get big,
(10:45):
and he snapped his head and looked back at same
of Petrick. What I found out later was when I
wanted to sleep, he's sitting there talking to this guy
about his whole life story, and he's told them all
kinds of stuff about him. So I go back to
sleep and I woke up with the gunshots. Clint was
asleep at the time that David Page pulled over at
the oil field and the gun shots woke him up,
(11:07):
and as actually confirmed by several people who were in
the Midland County jail with David Page before trial, but
also in two thousand and ten when Clint had an
evidentiary hearing and David Page was bragging about the murder,
how he killed Samuel Petrie, and how he put all
the bame on Clinton, how Clint was actually asleep. I
(11:29):
woke up with the guns shot. I dumped out. I
ran back there. The patry was laying on the ground
and he was standing there and a man, what the fuck?
I was cussing them out, basically saying, like I gave
my word, nothing's want to happen to this guy, said man,
he was supposed to let him go, and he kept
saying he knew too much, he knew too much, that
he knew my name, he knew my name. This episode
(11:56):
is underwritten by A i G, a leading global insurance company.
A i G is committed to corporate social responsibility and
is making a positive difference in the lives of its
employees and in the communities where we work and live.
In light of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance,
and in recognition of A I g's commitment to criminal
and social justice reform, the A i G pro Bono
(12:17):
Program provides free legal services and other support to underrepresented
communities and individuals. Several hours later, unfortunately, Mr Petrie is
found shot dead in the head in an oil field.
(12:38):
David Page goes to the place, turns himself in and
says that Clint was the one who did both murders,
and Clinton later gets arrested in Midlands. I mean, I
don't know if anyone knows how they would react if
they were in Clinton's shoes. He was dealing with somebody
whom he knew to be extremely violent and capable of
(12:59):
murdering to see him murder one person ultimately a second,
and I don't envy him being in that situation. And
we know that so often in these situations, the person
who goes and then points the finger at somebody else
gets better treatment. So Page goes to the police and
puts all the blame on Clinton. But neither scene was
ever really investigated, right minderstands. The cops never even went
(13:22):
to the first crime scene. They did not investigate the
first crime scene at all. They did not go out
there to check anything. The only thing that they did
is they took possession of the car of Doyle Douglas
and they investigated the trunk for blood traces to confirm
that Doyle's body was indeed put in the trunk, and
(13:44):
that was confirmed. After they done that, they destroyed the car,
so they didn't test it for a gunshot residue or
anything to determine from which position shots were fired. They
could have done a little bit more than just investigate
the trunk, but they destroyed the car after that, so
no investigation can be done at this point. That's about
(14:05):
as much as they did. Okay, so they destroyed the
car at any other evidence in there what remained of
it anyway, And luckily the ballistics and gunshot was from
the first incident exculpaid Clinton. But for the second murder
they didn't really do much of an investigation either. They
took a few pictures at the Brookshires, but didn't obtain
(14:26):
the surveillance video, or so they claimed, the very same
surveillance video that would have exculpated Clinton. Nor did they
find the gloves that David Paige war when he shot
Samuel Petrie until way later, and they only found those
when Clinton told them to go back to the scene,
something he did when it became clear that they were
going to pursue the death penalty against him because at first,
(14:48):
when David Page pointed the finger at you, they brought
you in Clinton, and you knew how they operated, and
we're not going to cooperate, right, You knew better than
to cooperate, was what we always tell the audience. Don't
talk to the police anyway. Tell us about that. They
put me in one room asking question. I said, I
want lawyer. They put me another room and had a
female to take this coming there and talk to me.
(15:08):
I told her my name, my post security number, and
my address, properly identified myself and she goes to ask
me questions. I said, hey, uh, I told you all
I wanted an attorney, and she goes jerk. When he died,
I'm like, yeah, you're not helping your situation like that
talking to me not crazy because she storms out and uh,
they're playing this game. Or they opened the door and
(15:29):
in another room diagonal, I see my ex girlfriend saying there,
they closed the door. They open the door again. I
see my cold offends sitting there. She comes back in
there and she's all that, yeah, we got you, and
he's telling us everything we need to know. Okay, I
guess you don't need me, huh. I've to deal with
enough cops. I know what. They try to sell it, right,
and I'm like, okay, what I said. Look, I don't
(15:49):
know what the hell you're talking about. I was asleep. Okay,
I ain't killing nobody, I said, Look, tasted my hands,
take my DNA, take my hair and samples whatever. I
ain't killing nobody. So when Clint was initially arrested, he
did not cooperate, but after it became clear that he
was their intended target for the death penalty, he made
a few suggestions to investigators that would prove his innocence,
(16:12):
and at this point police only had taken pictures at
the Berkshire's parking lot and had not obtained civilians footage
that would have shown David Page kidnapping Samuel Petrie while
Clint was actually inside the store, but that footage was
either never obtained or conveniently lost. David Page had also
told them about a seven eleven where they had stopped,
which had an unintended effect. They obtained civilians footage that
(16:35):
showed that Clint had not kidnapped David Page, but rather
when that Page was alone in the truck with the
gun and Samuel Petrie for over eleven minutes. Surprisingly, the
police knew that because David Page admitted it, and this
clearly impeached the state's theory at trial that Page was
kidnapped and on their Clint's control. David Page could have
done whatever he wanted in those eleven minutes if he
(16:57):
was in danger from Clint, but he wasn't. Detectives to
fight to the existence of this footage, but the prosecution
denied that it was ever handed over to them, so
that was not presented trial. Now. Clint also told them
to go back to the second crime scene and find
the cloves that David Page had warren when he shot
Samuel Petrie and to test him for DNA, but unfortunately
the cloves were not used to way there should have
(17:18):
been a trial right they could have tested them for
gunshot residue and David Pages DNA, which would have corroborated
Clinton's version of events. They sent the gloves to the
crime lab and instead of testing the inside of the
gloves for DNA and the al fire Fords R, they
requested DNA testing on the outside of the glove, and
the DPS lab was confused by the request. They called
(17:40):
up the Midland County dis returns off. There is a
record of this. The expert at the DPS led the
part of said the crime laid. Are you sure you
want DNA testing on the alside of the clove, on
the inside of the globe, And they also explained to
him these cloves are brand new. We ever about the gloves,
and the da told him only do DNA ing on
the outside of the gloves. So the ballistic guy was
(18:05):
afraid to do GSR type testing because he knew the
chemicals could destroy the DNA. So basically, the way they've
done the request for the gloves, it made it where
no proper tests could be done on the gloves. My
lawyers had to request DNA testing on the inside of
the gloves and it showed David Paige's DNA well. The
(18:26):
d a's office talked to David Page about the gloves
and the lead residue. So David Page got on the
stand and said, oh, yeah, those are my gloves. I
worked in them all the time. I used on the
movie scrap metal, lead pipes and things like that. That
made it with the gloves. Was there no value to
me forensically, But the d a's office did not tell
my attorneys that the expert had told them those gloves
(18:48):
were brand new, and it just so happened my cold
send bought them gloves the ninth of November twenty four,
two thousand one, at an easy Mark gas station in
long View, Well and two thousand of seen my lawyers,
they got permission to get testing on their pages gloves,
and he come back saturated and right. But we're getting
ahead of ourselves, So, Meryl, how long was it from
(19:10):
the time of Clinton's arrest till the trial? He got
arrested in November two thousand and one, and his trial
started in I believe, Marge, two thousand and three, So
Clint gets to quarter pointed lawyers who represented him, and
the state's theory was that Clinton so badly wanted to
(19:31):
see his girlfriend in Mitlan County that he was willing
killed two people in order to steal their vehicles so
he could drive from Longview to Midlands to go see
the girlfriend. That was the state's overall theory. And there
was no DNA evidence, There's no forensic evidence, no ballistic
(19:51):
evidence that conclusively pointed to Clint asked the shooter. So
all the state had to work with was witness cestimony.
Dave Page said that Clinton shot dol Ducas in the
head in the car. Mark Ray and Darnell McCoy confirmed that,
and Mark Ray also confessed to shooting Doyal Dugas at
(20:12):
the head when they dumped him in the isolated area.
Dood Douglas had three gunshot wounds in his head. Two
gunshot wounds came from the same gun, and then there
was a third gunshot wound which came from a different
gun on the right of the head. The third gunshot
wound was inflicted by Mark Ray. So we're working with
two gunshot wounds that were inflicted while everyone's still sitting
(20:34):
in the car. How is it logical for Clint to
shoot Doyle Douglas on the left side of his head
and the back of his head while he is sitting
on his right side and David Page is standing on
the outside of the car on the left side. So
he was in the perfect position to shoot the victim
at that point. Right Did the defense attorneys even bring
(20:56):
that out for the jury. They do mention it kind
of vaguely, but they do not point out well enough
for the jury that that was the case. They should
have done a better ballistic investigation. They didn't, and I
think they should have better highlighted the position Clint was
in and Duclas was in and David Page was in,
to show that Clint could not have been the shooter
(21:17):
in the first case. All the jury here's is David
Page saying that Clint shot the victim. Darnelle confirms it,
Margaret confirms it. Okay, So everything that they said about
the initial gunshots that killed Doyle Douglas are actually confirmed
to be lies by the ballistics evidence, which in turn
offers an explanation as to why the rest of the
(21:37):
narrative is so damn weak. Mark Rat, Darnelle McCoy, and
David Page all said that Clint was forcing them to
do all these things. But at the same time, Darnelle
McCoy says all of them had guns. Then how is
Clint able to force all three of them by himself
but all three of them have guns? How does that work?
(21:59):
It makes no sense. Then, according to this wild narrative,
Page volunteered to go and Young took Ray and McCoy
home Page testified the Young told the group quote, if
y'all squeal by the time I hear about it. Your
friend's going to be dead end quote. Then we're supposed
to go along with the narrative again. The Young called
(22:20):
his girlfriend, Amber Lynch, presumably to make arrangements to meet her,
and learned that her father, Bart Lynch, was with her.
Bart and Douglas knew each other, and Young thought Bart
would recognize the car, so he looked for another to
steal in Weatherford, but was unsuccessful. And how badly does
somebody have to want to see their girlfriend that they're
(22:41):
willing to kill two people, kidnapped three other guys, all
of them are armed. I mean, if the motive was
to see his girlfriend, my guess is he could have
found an easier way to get there. Absolutely, And the
whole botive doesn't even make sense because you're thinking to yourself, Oh,
now I'm driving in a dead person's car. Let's kill
somebody else so I can get rid of this car.
(23:03):
You could go and kill people for days on end.
If that's the theory, I don't even know what to say.
That's a crazy thing. The jury bought the state's theory.
And the weird thing is, I don't think the state
believed it either. Because David Page at Clinton's trial said
that he was kidnapped by Clinton and did nothing wrong
(23:24):
and that he was a victim in this case. And
then right after the trial they all got plea deal's.
Mark Ray got a plea deal for kidnapping with a
fifteen year sentence, and David Page got a plea deal
for thirty years on an aggravated kidnapping charge. Yeah, normally
kidnapping victims who witnessed murders don't get criminally prosecuted. Right,
(23:46):
It's pretty clear that the state new Ray and Page
were guilty and we're just making good on a promise
of leniency in exchange for their testimony. And Clinton, what
was it like for you sitting there listening to all
these lies? As very frustrating because they're saying that I
killed two people for their vehicles to go see a girl,
and they're seeing people la ah, theyn't see it. I
(24:12):
remember looking at it, my attorney saying, man, he's lave.
He can't do that. He said, well, he just done it.
I was like, well no, definitely, right, I said, Okay,
I thought about what you can prove. The state did
not preserve a lot of evidence. They destroyed evidence, They
withheld evidence. So that makes it difficult but not undoable.
(24:32):
And I would have gone out to the crime scenes
and investigated them myself, right, Like I think loud that
David Page war when he killed Samuel Patrick. There were
many many things that they could have done and and
didn't show. And there were witnesses at the time of
the trial actually at the Mintland County Jail who heard
Page confess to them. He confessed that he was the
(24:55):
one who committed the murders, not Clinton. Those witnesses were
initially willing to testify, but then I got a visit
from the d as investigator and then decided not to.
Like I said, it's hard when you're fighting a state
like that, especially with what we discovered later on that
they were so actively working towards getting him sentenced to
(25:16):
death and executed. Yeah, unfortunately he was a convenience scapegoat
for everybody. The prosecutors got to solve the case, right,
the cops can move on, get off their desk, and
the three guys could get lesser charges for themselves. So
everybody's a winner in this situation, if you could have
a winner in such a situation, except Clinton, and so
(25:37):
Clinton without that evidence, and with so many lies against you,
you were convicted and sentenced to death. When they convicted me,
I was devastated. I got my choice. Are read in life?
Are death? That really hit me. People were telling me,
oh that I will be your death, as if you're gone.
You're good looking and you're intelligence. People love you. You're white,
and I'm okay you. I pointed towards a jury one day,
(25:59):
La Mayor. Those white folks think I done, then they're
gonna kill me. And they looked at me crazy, and
they said, why do you say that you're white too? Yeah,
but I'm out there white. About two or three o'clock
(26:25):
in the morning, I woke up with the hare in
the sound of the chain leg shackles, the belly chain
and the handcuffs here in the chains rattle and drag
on the concrete. The guards knocks on the door, and
there's a solemn event for everybody. You could tell like
they all appreciated disseverity, the situation right there, shackle of
somebody else and sent on the death row. And so
I get in the van and as we're getting closer,
(26:47):
we'll get the Huntsville and you start seeing all these prisons,
and that's why I started feeling the way to the
situation until Kay, I'm getting here. You know, what's this
nature done in my life? Is going to be Like
we get to where they process everybody, and I get
the van and they know I'm going a death row.
No walking up the steps. The guard says, hurry, don't
get him in here. If I had to kill him,
army man, I needed that. What I heard that guard
(27:08):
tell me that that sit the tone for me right there.
I realized that he was just playing around, But to me,
it wasn't planned for. That just set my mind set
for my time on it. So I had the unit
I was in the law library, I was fighting. I
lived at them as my enemy, and I never was
delusion that they was my friend or that they cared
about me or anything like that. You know, I always
thought about what that guard said when I was walking
(27:30):
up town steps, and so it just became a bigger
motivator for me. So you're working your case in the
law library to save your own life, and eventually Meryl
joined your fight about a decade later. So, Meryl, how
in the world did you find out about Clinton Young
who was sentenced to death. It's almost half a world
away in Texas while you're over in the Netherlands, presumably
(27:53):
leading a relatively normal life. Whatever that is probably more
or less the life of your parents envision for you,
which I'm guessing is probably not this one. They definitely
did not imagine I would move to Texas in I
was in law school in Rotterdam in the Netherlands, and
I just got back from an internship in New York
(28:15):
City where I interned for a defense attorney who was
working on white color crimes and representing people who took
a lot of money from Wall Street, for example. And
I was very interested in the American criminal justice system.
And when I got back in I I did some research,
and I watched documentaries and I read online about anything
(28:38):
I could get my hands on. And I saw a
documentary about the death penalty in Texas and Clincaen was
interviewed about what it was like being on death row,
and he said, I did not get a fair trial.
I'm innocent. I didn't kill these two people. And at
the time I did not know whether or not that
(28:58):
was true. But I saw the difference by looking at him,
and he was so young, and he was sentenced to
death at nineteen and I started thinking about the clients
that I helped in New York City who were very rich,
would not go to prison, had a lot of money
to hire the best attorneys, and Clint didn't have that,
(29:18):
and he was on death row for a crime he
said he didn't commit. And that contrast that really got
to me. I kept thinking about it and decided to
write him a letter, and yeah, he wrote me back,
and that's how that story started. So let's talk about
the post conviction litigation, and the story doesn't get any
less crazy here. So in Clint has been through the
(29:44):
entire appeals process and he's lost everything, and they set
his execution date for October twenty six, two thousand and seventeen.
And that's when Clint's defense lawyers requested to do new
testing on the gloves down at the second crime scene.
The clubs were previously tested for DNA and they found
(30:06):
David Page is DNA on the inside and Clinton's DNA
was excluded, so we know that David Page wore those gloves.
Those clubs were found in very close proximity to the victim,
and they tested it for gunshot residue. An expert wrote
a report on it, and he said, I found gunshot residue,
(30:27):
and given the location and the amount of the gunshot
residue that I found on these gloves, I really only
have one conclusion, and that is that the person who
was wearing the gloves was at the same time also
firing a gun. And the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals
on October eighteen stayed his execution because if possible false
(30:48):
testimony given by David Page during Clinton's trial. Wow, so
just a week before the execution, and there's some other
information you've got at that time as well. Exactly a
couple of days after the Mitland County d A. Laura
Nodolf sends an email to Clinton attorneys saying, oh, by
(31:09):
the way, I did an interview with David Page a
couple of weeks ago. It's not material to the conviction
at all, but here's a copy. Good luck with it.
Clans attorney's lessened to the tape and discover that David
Page gives a confession in that interview and he says
I was the one who kidnapped the second victim. So
(31:30):
to Mitland County Day's office with helped that tape to
only give it to the defense team until after his
execution got stayed. Would they have turned it over if
Clinton's execution was not stayed. No, I don't think so.
They wanted to bury that even though that interview alone
would have given Clinton a stay of execution. They would
have buried that, and they would have buried him exactly.
(31:52):
The Texas scored A Criminal Appeals gave Clinton an evident
Charity hearing finally in on the possible false test money
of David Paige, and included in that hearing was going
to be the withholding of the favorable interview and confession
by David Page. Two days before that evidentiary hearing was
(32:13):
going to take place, Laura no dolf sends a message
to Clint's defense human says, Oh, we just found some documents.
We are probably going to end up as witnesses ourselves
in this case now, so it's better free recused. The
evidence shows that Ralph Petty, who was an assistant District
(32:34):
attorney for the Mittland County d a's office for seventeen
years while he was prosecuting Clinton, had also worked as
a paid law clerk for the judges who were presiding
over Clint's case, and in that capacity he drafted rulings
for the judges on Clint's case. He decided on motions,
(32:54):
he was interviewing witnesses. The list goes on and on.
It's absolutely insane. So that was discus covered only two
days before that hearing was going to take place. Very conveniently,
i must say, because now no one was going to
look at the withholding of that tape of David Page
because the avidentery hearing got postponed. Obviously, this was huge news,
(33:16):
and Clans attorneys filed a new red application, asked to
CCA to reopen the case based on prosecutorial misconduct, and
they did, and they held a short evidentiary hearing in
January this year, and in April there were closing arguments.
And normally when you have closing arguments after an evidentiary hearing,
(33:39):
a trial judge is going to take a few weeks
to decide on what recommendation he's going to give to
the cec A. And Clans attorney's obviously said we need
a new trial judge. This is unheard of, this is
outrageous prosecutoral misconduct. Clinton never had a fair trial. The state,
interestingly enough. First said, well, we can kind of see
that this is not great. How However, later on they said,
(34:01):
you know what, Judge, we actually think that Ralph Petty
built an ethical wall between his work for did the
Gas Office and his work for the judge. So really,
we don't see anything wrong with this. We should just
keep the conviction in taxt The idea that he was
able to build an ethical wall in between his work
as a prosecutor and his work basically judging his own work,
(34:24):
it's like it's literally the wolf guarding the henhouse. The
beautiful thing is the trial judge. He didn't believe it either.
He didn't buy any of that. During the closing arguments,
everyone had said what they wanted to say and I
was about to close it off because it was on zoom,
and the judge, instead of waiting a couple of weeks,
immediately said at the end, Mr Young, I'm going to
(34:46):
recommend that you get a new trial. And everyone was
just shocked. I was shocked. I was like, did he
just really say that? But he did, so that was great,
and that recommendation got sent to the Texas Court of
Criminal Appeals and in September they completely vacated Clinton's conviction
and death sentence, and in October he was taken off
(35:08):
of death row and sent back to the Midland County Jail,
where he is now awaiting his new trial. So, Clinton,
in September one, when you heard this that, after all
this time on death row and coming within a week
of being executed, your conviction was being overturned. What was
that moment like for you? Okay, I was sitting there
talking to a friend of mine, and I have been
(35:28):
listening to the local news, but I didn't hear it.
All of a sudden, Ricky Cummings are screaming Ammy, and
he's screaming so loud I can't make it out, and
I go, what's up, doctor, conviction? Overtime? It is overtime, Christion.
And I was like, man already, And so I was
a lady, and I was excited. Man, it was just
a great killing. So Clinton has been speaking with us
(35:49):
from inside Midland County Jail for most of this episode,
but in January of two, he was released on bond
while he awaits a new trial. So Clinton, what can
I say, buddy, Well, come home, how are you feeling.
I'm feeling good, you know, you know, I'm the first
person in Texas history to get out on bond after
getting a new trial off death role and still being
(36:09):
under indictment for capital murder. It's never happened before. I
certainly wish I could get out and do more, but
being on house arrest, I'm limited to what I can do.
So I must admit that this is the best jail
cell I ever been in. Uh, everyone here at the
Wrong Book Fiction podcast and so many other people are
just ecstatic about this news. So what does this all mean.
(36:30):
What's the status of your case? Well, right now it's
in the review phase because the prosecutors they're new to
everything and so they really don't know the ins analysis
of the entire case. And sometimes a fresh, saidilies is
a good thing. There's also elections coming up, primaries and
stuff like that to get in fact who's working on
the case, and so everything is just really in limbo
(36:51):
right now. This case is not the same case as
it was in two thousand and three when I went
to trial. It's not gonna be fought the same way.
The evidence it was given to the je has been
attacked so efficiently, and new evidence has been developed, such
as forensic testing, codefendants confessing in part or bragging about
getting away with murder. There's so much more that's known.
(37:13):
I think reasonable minds could agree that at this point
the state should really just drop the charges. It's abundantly
clear at this point that Clinton didn't kill anybody. We
still want to make sure that we do everything we
can to make sure that this time he receives a
fair trial. So the Clinton Young Foundation, for which I
am the legal director, has made sure that Clinton now
(37:37):
has an amazing defense team. Dick de Garon, who has
decades of trial experience in Texas, and Mark White, fantastic
lawyer as well, are now representing him during his new trial.
So the Clinton Foundation will keep raising awareness. We have
to keep raising money to make sure that we can
(37:59):
pay all the legal phase because a good defense team,
unfortunately in this country, is not free. And I have
to say, Dick to Garren is a legend in courtrooms
in Texas and even around the country. For people who
do want to help, How do they donate, how do
they sign up? How do they do whatever they need
to do in order to help Clinton, Well, they should
(38:21):
go to Linda Young Foundation dot com. And we have
a Facebook page, Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, you name it, we
got it. We're going to put links to all of
that in the bio. So please sign the petition, donate
if you can, and even if you can't, spread the
word okay, because together we can right this horrible wrong
and now at wrongful Conviction, as everybody knows, do, we
(38:43):
have my favorite part of the show, which is called
closing Arguments, And Merrill, first of all, thank you for
just being a beacon of light and a force for
good and for taking time to come and be here
with us on Wrongful Conviction today. And you know I've
really been looking forward to this. And Clinton, thank you
for being here and for sharing your important story. We're
(39:06):
hoping to see you fully enjoying true freedom really soon.
So now closing Arguments works like this same more or
less every time. I'm gonna turn my microphone off, leave
my headphones on, kick up the volume, and kick back
in my chair and let you talk about whatever else
is on your mind that we may not have already
covered already. So let's Meryl, let's go with you first.
(39:29):
Then you can just hand the mic off to Clinton
and let him take us off into the sunset well, Jason,
thank you so much for paying attention and using your
resources to highlight these wrongful convictions. Because it's not just
defense lawyers who do the work, it's advocates like you
who can also truly make a difference by creating awareness
(39:51):
and spreading this news all over the country. So that
is just such a huge, huge contribution and very important work.
I know how heart this work can be and how
rare it is that we win cases, but once we do,
I really hope Clinton's case can be an example to
other people to never give up hope, to never never
(40:15):
give up the fight. And now Clinton over to you.
So I made bad choices in my life. They put
me on past I shouldn't have been on. I have
suffered them injustice. But one of the saddest things about
this case is the concept of closure for the victim's family.
The distric Attorney's office convinced them that I killed their
loved ones and that I was going to be executed.
(40:36):
So not only have I gone through this process, the
victims family has gone through this process and it's been
traumatizing to them because they had this belief that there
would be closer, that there would be this concept of justice,
you know concept me personally. I was born into a
line of chaos in many ways that really have a
fair chance in life. And I say that what I
(40:57):
want in life was that trinity of humanity, that's what
I call it, to be loved, safe and free. And
so people asking what I want, I want to build
to get out and have that basic trinity of humanity,
to be loved, safe and free, and to build a
live life, still do something productive in life. And one
of the things that death rows it was it actually
(41:18):
gave me life. Man. I met a lot of great
people down as it road me and a lot of
people done things to help me. The documentary that was
made about my case really helped highlight my story and
the injustice that I went through, and it brought a
lot of good people into my life. It wasn't telling
me I was bad or those things. They were telling
me I was good and then I could do great
things and I had this potential and it helps installed
(41:40):
confidence in me that I had never had in my childhood.
And so it made me focus more about my legacy
and what I want to do in this world. And
I don't want to just be a good person. I
want to be able to do great things. I want
to shape the world around me. I have a passion
for helping other people. I have a passion for justice.
I see a lot of people get executed. It should
(42:02):
never been executed. I see how broken our system is,
how favors are rich that are politically connected, and so
I wanted to have a family, be free, live life,
and do great things in this world. If I get
out today, I mean I have the life maybe that
I never would have had before because the people I've met,
I mean, as crazy as it seems, people might not
understand it, but pointed death role gave me life and
(42:24):
it made me a better person. It made me evaluate
my inanity. It made me think about the people in
my life that I've heard and I said. It made
me want to do better, to be better, and to
accomplish a great things. I got my travision overturned and
I want step closer. Time will tell how everything works out.
I want to thank Jason for this opportunity. Thank you.
(42:45):
In addition to all that I've previously stated, Now that
I am out on Bond, I look forward to living
up to my goals, being the man that I know
I can be and proven to society that I can
be a productive member of society, and also showing the
world that you don't have to throw away human beings,
that we can change that twenty years later we're not
(43:07):
the same person. I look forward to action, not talk.
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to
thank our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Clyburne,
and Kevin Wardis with research by Lila Robinson. The music
(43:27):
in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated
composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram
at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and
on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava
for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow
me on both TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason flom
(43:49):
ralevul Conviction is the production of Lava for Good Podcasts
and association with Signal Company Number one
In two thousand and one, at age eighteen, Clinton Young
was newly released from Texas juvenile prison and was the
youngest and newest member of a group of acquaintances with
David Page, Mark Ray, and Darnell McCoy. That November, Clinton
was present when David Page shot and killed two men
in separate incidents, Doyle Douglas and Samuel Petrie. After the
(00:22):
second incident, Clinton split from Page, who immediately went to
the police to control the narrative. All four men were
brought in, and while Clinton refused to cooperate, Ray and
McCoy joined Page in exchange for leniency. When it became
clear that Clinton was being targeted for the death penalty,
he made suggestions to police that turned up evidence corroborating
his innocence. However, that evidence was either explained away, ignored,
(00:46):
or disappeared. The state's case at trial relied solely on
the incentivized testimonies of Page, Ray, and McCoy. The defense
failed to point out conflicting details and inconsistencies in their
testimonies or the ballistics and d N evidence that corroborated
Clinton's version of events. Without access to destroyed or missing
evidence that exculpated Clinton. He was convicted and sentenced to death.
(01:09):
While Clinton's appeals were repeatedly denied. Growing evidence of Page,
Ray and McCoy's false testimony, as well as new forensic
evidence exculpate and Clinton eventually led to a stay just
a week ahead of his execution date. In soon, David
Page's confession on the record, along with the revelation of
significant prosecutorial misconduct affecting hundreds of cases, including Clinton's, led
(01:34):
the court to overturn his conviction. But he's not out
of the woods yet. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back
(01:55):
to wrongful conviction. So often since I started making this
show over five years ago, we do an episode where
I go, Okay, now I've heard everything, but today, now,
maybe up to today, I can really say that because
you're gonna hear some stuff today that is truly mind blowing,
even by the crazy standards of the rawval conviction cases
(02:16):
that we cover weekend and week out. Because this case
involves an innocent guy who ended up being sentenced to death,
We've heard that story before. It involves an advocate who
moved from the Netherlands to Texas so that she could
represent and try to get justice for our subject today,
Quentin Young, and get ready for this one. It involves
(02:39):
a prosecutor who was moonlighting writing opinions for the judge. Yeah,
you heard that correctly. The prosecutor was making a little
extra money on the side writing rulings in his own cases.
So now I can catch my breath and introduce the
very woman I was just talking to you about. I'm
(03:01):
proud to say, Attorney Meryl Plintier, welcome to wrong for conviction.
Thank you so much for having me Jason and now
fresh out of death row. Actually, those are some crazy
words even have to say. And live from the Midland
County Jail, we have our featured guest today, Clinton Young. Clinton,
(03:22):
welcome to ronful conviction. Thank you for the opportunity now
to explain this to our audience. Clinton is off the
death row. Otherwise I'd be conducting this interview in person
at the Polunsky Unit in Livingston, Texas, outside of Houston,
But instead he's on the phone from Midland County Jail,
where he's a way to get a decision about whether
he will be retried or perhaps released to a weight retrial,
(03:42):
or the charges may be dropped. Altogether considering the story
that you're about to hear, and I feel like I
really should give a bit of a disclaimer here. As
some of our guests have exhibited criminal behavior prior to
their wrongful conviction, that's definitely true for Clinton. I mean, he,
you know, who open a very difficult environment. You know,
had a history of drug use and car theft and
(04:04):
different run ins with the law, all of which are
just background that ultimately led to him being present during
the commission of two murders for which he bears no
culpability other than being next to someone who decided to
make that grim choice to kill the same person that
ultimately pointed to finger at him. Now, by his own admission,
(04:26):
he could have done more to bring that person to justice.
But the fact is he did not plan or take
part of these murders. So while you may not agree
with all of Clinton's choices, first of all, you can't
walk a mile in his shoes. And two, he didn't
actually kill anyone. He's innocent of both murders for which
he was convicted. But we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Clinton,
(04:47):
tell us about your life growing up, Well, I guess
I still have my life a chaotic path. Seventeen. My
father was very fild, a lot about his age, a
lot about having kids. He and up pregnant, they get married.
He was very, very very abusive to her and his
other children. So after she has me, he continues to
(05:08):
beat on her, so she finally leaves. In fact, my
dad basically kidnapped me from my mom and only would
give me back to her if she found papers saying
that she wouldn't request child support and all this stuff.
So fast forward some time you meet my stepfather and
they're moving together, they get married. I was hyperactive also,
and eventually the school decided to put me on a
(05:30):
d D medication Writhland, and they didn't help anything. You know,
it made me feel worse, and you know, I had
troms in school. Beyond that growing up, you know, my
stepfather unfortunately was an alcoholic and I wasn't his son.
Because there's usually a dynamic that takes place with stepchildren
and stepparents, there's usually a conflict. So then my mom
and my stepfather are arguing all the time because how
(05:52):
he asked forwards me, and so my home life was
really care already growing up, Well that would be such
a difficult situation to grow up and for anyone, and
from that environment, you ended up with some runnings with
the law, and those are minor things, relatively speaking, but
such that you ended up spending two and a half
years in juvenile prison in Texas. So this all started
in the long View area in Texas. Clinton just got
(06:15):
out of juvenile prison and I think that traumatized him heavily,
and he got addicted to drugs and started hanging out
with the people that you don't want your kids to
hang out with. Mark Ray, David Page, and Darnell McCoy,
his co defendants in this case. One day in November
two thousand and one, David Page, Darnelle McCoy, Mark Ray, Clinton,
(06:40):
and Doyle Douglas We're all sitting in a car and
they were on their way to buy drugs. Clinton was
sitting in the passenger seat and Doyle Douglas was driving.
The car was his car, and the other three were
sitting in the back. And as soon as they arrived
at the house where they were going to buy drugs,
David Page got out of the car, got up to
(07:02):
the front door of the house. There was some confusion.
There was no drugs. They didn't buy drugs. And David
Page walks back to the car and he's standing on
the left side of the car. Clinton is still sitting
inside on the passenger seat, and at that point Doyle
Douglas get shot in the head twice. David Page has
(07:24):
always said that Clinton was someone who did it, and
Clinton has always said that no, David Page did that.
And it's important to note that it doesn't really matter
what David Page said because Doyle Douglas's head wound support
Clinton's version of advance in the past and see the car.
Douglas was sitting in the driver seat of the car,
and they said, I saw a fact in the head.
(07:44):
There's no way I could have because he was shot
in the left side of the head and the back
of the head. How canst you the person and left
out of the the head and over three ft away if
I'm in the pasta side of the car. It's ridiculous.
So there isn't an opportunity really to agree or disagree
about this gunshot when you'd have to suspend all this book.
What they all agree on was that after that happened,
the body of Doyle Duckas was put into trunk and
(08:07):
they drove to a secluded area in the woods where
the body was dumped and Mark Ray shot Doyal Douglass
a third time in the head. Now after that, they
all get in the car, Doyle Ducklass his car, and
Darnielle McCoy and Mark Ray are dropped off at their
homes while Clinton and David Page drive off and Clint
(08:32):
was going to go see his girlfriend, who was at
that time in Midland on the other side of Texas,
and David Page decided to ride along with him, and
after a few hours in the car, David Paige didn't
want to drive around in Doyle Ducklass his car, so
he decides he needs a new vehicle. They stopped at
a Brookshire store parking lot and a man named Samuel
(08:57):
Petrie is kitnapp apped and his car is taken in.
According to David Paige's own most recent confession, as he
walked up to Samuel Petrie's car holding that gunpoint and
said you're coming with us? And and Clinton, did you
know this was happening? I didn't see him kidd napped.
(09:18):
I was inside the store and I walked out and
David Page was sitting in the truck talking about that.
What's up? And he's like, well, we needed a bighicle.
So I got back in the car and I got
David Page's gun and I emptied it, and I even
told Mr Petrie. I said, look, man, trying to free
to six choices. Now, I said, look, don't worry about nothing.
That guns empty, man. Okay. He's like, I don't understand.
(09:39):
I said, little man, the situation that I was control,
we gotta just start sold everything out, okay, but just relax.
The guns empty. And by that time Page got back
in the truck and I gave the guns back to Page.
But I didn't tell if it was empty. I was
just trying to figure out how the best resolve it
in the best way possible. Right. I'm not saying I
made the right choices in life or anything like this,
but I took effort to make there's nothing happened to
(10:00):
this man. I saw a sleep sword after that. Right
sometime period wh when I was asleep, he found out
the gun was empty. I woke up at Midlands and
I told David paigeaid, look man, she he pet this
do go man, I mean this ship needs to end.
So I ended up calling my girlfriend on the phone
and I told Page. I said, oh, man, I accidentally
used the phone. I said, look, looking, Cael happened to
(10:21):
this dude, because there's gonna trace it back on us.
In my mind, I thought I was doing the smart
thing right, trying to protect Petrie. I talked to my
Eggs and she says that the police are looking for
David Page. And I looked over the Page. I said, hey,
they say you need to talk to your dad because
the Texas Rangers I'm looking for you. He said for what,
And I said, to put the stuff to happen. He's texts,
I guess, and why When I said that, I get big,
(10:45):
and he snapped his head and looked back at same
of Petrick. What I found out later was when I
wanted to sleep, he's sitting there talking to this guy
about his whole life story, and he's told them all
kinds of stuff about him. So I go back to
sleep and I woke up with the gunshots. Clint was
asleep at the time that David Page pulled over at
the oil field and the gun shots woke him up,
(11:07):
and as actually confirmed by several people who were in
the Midland County jail with David Page before trial, but
also in two thousand and ten when Clint had an
evidentiary hearing and David Page was bragging about the murder,
how he killed Samuel Petrie, and how he put all
the bame on Clinton, how Clint was actually asleep. I
(11:29):
woke up with the guns shot. I dumped out. I
ran back there. The patry was laying on the ground
and he was standing there and a man, what the fuck?
I was cussing them out, basically saying, like I gave
my word, nothing's want to happen to this guy, said man,
he was supposed to let him go, and he kept
saying he knew too much, he knew too much, that
he knew my name, he knew my name. This episode
(11:56):
is underwritten by A i G, a leading global insurance company.
A i G is committed to corporate social responsibility and
is making a positive difference in the lives of its
employees and in the communities where we work and live.
In light of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance,
and in recognition of A I g's commitment to criminal
and social justice reform, the A i G pro Bono
(12:17):
Program provides free legal services and other support to underrepresented
communities and individuals. Several hours later, unfortunately, Mr Petrie is
found shot dead in the head in an oil field.
(12:38):
David Page goes to the place, turns himself in and
says that Clint was the one who did both murders,
and Clinton later gets arrested in Midlands. I mean, I
don't know if anyone knows how they would react if
they were in Clinton's shoes. He was dealing with somebody
whom he knew to be extremely violent and capable of
(12:59):
murdering to see him murder one person ultimately a second,
and I don't envy him being in that situation. And
we know that so often in these situations, the person
who goes and then points the finger at somebody else
gets better treatment. So Page goes to the police and
puts all the blame on Clinton. But neither scene was
ever really investigated, right minderstands. The cops never even went
(13:22):
to the first crime scene. They did not investigate the
first crime scene at all. They did not go out
there to check anything. The only thing that they did
is they took possession of the car of Doyle Douglas
and they investigated the trunk for blood traces to confirm
that Doyle's body was indeed put in the trunk, and
(13:44):
that was confirmed. After they done that, they destroyed the car,
so they didn't test it for a gunshot residue or
anything to determine from which position shots were fired. They
could have done a little bit more than just investigate
the trunk, but they destroyed the car after that, so
no investigation can be done at this point. That's about
(14:05):
as much as they did. Okay, so they destroyed the
car at any other evidence in there what remained of
it anyway, And luckily the ballistics and gunshot was from
the first incident exculpaid Clinton. But for the second murder
they didn't really do much of an investigation either. They
took a few pictures at the Brookshires, but didn't obtain
(14:26):
the surveillance video, or so they claimed, the very same
surveillance video that would have exculpated Clinton. Nor did they
find the gloves that David Paige war when he shot
Samuel Petrie until way later, and they only found those
when Clinton told them to go back to the scene,
something he did when it became clear that they were
going to pursue the death penalty against him because at first,
(14:48):
when David Page pointed the finger at you, they brought
you in Clinton, and you knew how they operated, and
we're not going to cooperate, right, You knew better than
to cooperate, was what we always tell the audience. Don't
talk to the police anyway. Tell us about that. They
put me in one room asking question. I said, I
want lawyer. They put me another room and had a
female to take this coming there and talk to me.
(15:08):
I told her my name, my post security number, and
my address, properly identified myself and she goes to ask
me questions. I said, hey, uh, I told you all
I wanted an attorney, and she goes jerk. When he died,
I'm like, yeah, you're not helping your situation like that
talking to me not crazy because she storms out and uh,
they're playing this game. Or they opened the door and
(15:29):
in another room diagonal, I see my ex girlfriend saying there,
they closed the door. They open the door again. I
see my cold offends sitting there. She comes back in
there and she's all that, yeah, we got you, and
he's telling us everything we need to know. Okay, I
guess you don't need me, huh. I've to deal with
enough cops. I know what. They try to sell it, right,
and I'm like, okay, what I said. Look, I don't
(15:49):
know what the hell you're talking about. I was asleep. Okay,
I ain't killing nobody, I said, Look, tasted my hands,
take my DNA, take my hair and samples whatever. I
ain't killing nobody. So when Clint was initially arrested, he
did not cooperate, but after it became clear that he
was their intended target for the death penalty, he made
a few suggestions to investigators that would prove his innocence,
(16:12):
and at this point police only had taken pictures at
the Berkshire's parking lot and had not obtained civilians footage
that would have shown David Page kidnapping Samuel Petrie while
Clint was actually inside the store, but that footage was
either never obtained or conveniently lost. David Page had also
told them about a seven eleven where they had stopped,
which had an unintended effect. They obtained civilians footage that
(16:35):
showed that Clint had not kidnapped David Page, but rather
when that Page was alone in the truck with the
gun and Samuel Petrie for over eleven minutes. Surprisingly, the
police knew that because David Page admitted it, and this
clearly impeached the state's theory at trial that Page was
kidnapped and on their Clint's control. David Page could have
done whatever he wanted in those eleven minutes if he
(16:57):
was in danger from Clint, but he wasn't. Detectives to
fight to the existence of this footage, but the prosecution
denied that it was ever handed over to them, so
that was not presented trial. Now. Clint also told them
to go back to the second crime scene and find
the cloves that David Page had warren when he shot
Samuel Petrie and to test him for DNA, but unfortunately
the cloves were not used to way there should have
(17:18):
been a trial right they could have tested them for
gunshot residue and David Pages DNA, which would have corroborated
Clinton's version of events. They sent the gloves to the
crime lab and instead of testing the inside of the
gloves for DNA and the al fire Fords R, they
requested DNA testing on the outside of the glove, and
the DPS lab was confused by the request. They called
(17:40):
up the Midland County dis returns off. There is a
record of this. The expert at the DPS led the
part of said the crime laid. Are you sure you
want DNA testing on the alside of the clove, on
the inside of the globe, And they also explained to
him these cloves are brand new. We ever about the gloves,
and the da told him only do DNA ing on
the outside of the gloves. So the ballistic guy was
(18:05):
afraid to do GSR type testing because he knew the
chemicals could destroy the DNA. So basically, the way they've
done the request for the gloves, it made it where
no proper tests could be done on the gloves. My
lawyers had to request DNA testing on the inside of
the gloves and it showed David Paige's DNA well. The
(18:26):
d a's office talked to David Page about the gloves
and the lead residue. So David Page got on the
stand and said, oh, yeah, those are my gloves. I
worked in them all the time. I used on the
movie scrap metal, lead pipes and things like that. That
made it with the gloves. Was there no value to
me forensically, But the d a's office did not tell
my attorneys that the expert had told them those gloves
(18:48):
were brand new, and it just so happened my cold
send bought them gloves the ninth of November twenty four,
two thousand one, at an easy Mark gas station in
long View, Well and two thousand of seen my lawyers,
they got permission to get testing on their pages gloves,
and he come back saturated and right. But we're getting
ahead of ourselves, So, Meryl, how long was it from
(19:10):
the time of Clinton's arrest till the trial? He got
arrested in November two thousand and one, and his trial
started in I believe, Marge, two thousand and three, So
Clint gets to quarter pointed lawyers who represented him, and
the state's theory was that Clinton so badly wanted to
(19:31):
see his girlfriend in Mitlan County that he was willing
killed two people in order to steal their vehicles so
he could drive from Longview to Midlands to go see
the girlfriend. That was the state's overall theory. And there
was no DNA evidence, There's no forensic evidence, no ballistic
(19:51):
evidence that conclusively pointed to Clint asked the shooter. So
all the state had to work with was witness cestimony.
Dave Page said that Clinton shot dol Ducas in the
head in the car. Mark Ray and Darnell McCoy confirmed that,
and Mark Ray also confessed to shooting Doyal Dugas at
(20:12):
the head when they dumped him in the isolated area.
Dood Douglas had three gunshot wounds in his head. Two
gunshot wounds came from the same gun, and then there
was a third gunshot wound which came from a different
gun on the right of the head. The third gunshot
wound was inflicted by Mark Ray. So we're working with
two gunshot wounds that were inflicted while everyone's still sitting
(20:34):
in the car. How is it logical for Clint to
shoot Doyle Douglas on the left side of his head
and the back of his head while he is sitting
on his right side and David Page is standing on
the outside of the car on the left side. So
he was in the perfect position to shoot the victim
at that point. Right Did the defense attorneys even bring
(20:56):
that out for the jury. They do mention it kind
of vaguely, but they do not point out well enough
for the jury that that was the case. They should
have done a better ballistic investigation. They didn't, and I
think they should have better highlighted the position Clint was
in and Duclas was in and David Page was in,
to show that Clint could not have been the shooter
(21:17):
in the first case. All the jury here's is David
Page saying that Clint shot the victim. Darnelle confirms it,
Margaret confirms it. Okay, So everything that they said about
the initial gunshots that killed Doyle Douglas are actually confirmed
to be lies by the ballistics evidence, which in turn
offers an explanation as to why the rest of the
(21:37):
narrative is so damn weak. Mark Rat, Darnelle McCoy, and
David Page all said that Clint was forcing them to
do all these things. But at the same time, Darnelle
McCoy says all of them had guns. Then how is
Clint able to force all three of them by himself
but all three of them have guns? How does that work?
(21:59):
It makes no sense. Then, according to this wild narrative,
Page volunteered to go and Young took Ray and McCoy
home Page testified the Young told the group quote, if
y'all squeal by the time I hear about it. Your
friend's going to be dead end quote. Then we're supposed
to go along with the narrative again. The Young called
(22:20):
his girlfriend, Amber Lynch, presumably to make arrangements to meet her,
and learned that her father, Bart Lynch, was with her.
Bart and Douglas knew each other, and Young thought Bart
would recognize the car, so he looked for another to
steal in Weatherford, but was unsuccessful. And how badly does
somebody have to want to see their girlfriend that they're
(22:41):
willing to kill two people, kidnapped three other guys, all
of them are armed. I mean, if the motive was
to see his girlfriend, my guess is he could have
found an easier way to get there. Absolutely, And the
whole botive doesn't even make sense because you're thinking to yourself, Oh,
now I'm driving in a dead person's car. Let's kill
somebody else so I can get rid of this car.
(23:03):
You could go and kill people for days on end.
If that's the theory, I don't even know what to say.
That's a crazy thing. The jury bought the state's theory.
And the weird thing is, I don't think the state
believed it either. Because David Page at Clinton's trial said
that he was kidnapped by Clinton and did nothing wrong
(23:24):
and that he was a victim in this case. And
then right after the trial they all got plea deal's.
Mark Ray got a plea deal for kidnapping with a
fifteen year sentence, and David Page got a plea deal
for thirty years on an aggravated kidnapping charge. Yeah, normally
kidnapping victims who witnessed murders don't get criminally prosecuted. Right,
(23:46):
It's pretty clear that the state new Ray and Page
were guilty and we're just making good on a promise
of leniency in exchange for their testimony. And Clinton, what
was it like for you sitting there listening to all
these lies? As very frustrating because they're saying that I
killed two people for their vehicles to go see a girl,
and they're seeing people la ah, theyn't see it. I
(24:12):
remember looking at it, my attorney saying, man, he's lave.
He can't do that. He said, well, he just done it.
I was like, well no, definitely, right, I said, Okay,
I thought about what you can prove. The state did
not preserve a lot of evidence. They destroyed evidence, They
withheld evidence. So that makes it difficult but not undoable.
(24:32):
And I would have gone out to the crime scenes
and investigated them myself, right, Like I think loud that
David Page war when he killed Samuel Patrick. There were
many many things that they could have done and and
didn't show. And there were witnesses at the time of
the trial actually at the Mintland County Jail who heard
Page confess to them. He confessed that he was the
(24:55):
one who committed the murders, not Clinton. Those witnesses were
initially willing to testify, but then I got a visit
from the d as investigator and then decided not to.
Like I said, it's hard when you're fighting a state
like that, especially with what we discovered later on that
they were so actively working towards getting him sentenced to
(25:16):
death and executed. Yeah, unfortunately he was a convenience scapegoat
for everybody. The prosecutors got to solve the case, right,
the cops can move on, get off their desk, and
the three guys could get lesser charges for themselves. So
everybody's a winner in this situation, if you could have
a winner in such a situation, except Clinton, and so
(25:37):
Clinton without that evidence, and with so many lies against you,
you were convicted and sentenced to death. When they convicted me,
I was devastated. I got my choice. Are read in life?
Are death? That really hit me. People were telling me,
oh that I will be your death, as if you're gone.
You're good looking and you're intelligence. People love you. You're white,
and I'm okay you. I pointed towards a jury one day,
(25:59):
La Mayor. Those white folks think I done, then they're
gonna kill me. And they looked at me crazy, and
they said, why do you say that you're white too? Yeah,
but I'm out there white. About two or three o'clock
(26:25):
in the morning, I woke up with the hare in
the sound of the chain leg shackles, the belly chain
and the handcuffs here in the chains rattle and drag
on the concrete. The guards knocks on the door, and
there's a solemn event for everybody. You could tell like
they all appreciated disseverity, the situation right there, shackle of
somebody else and sent on the death row. And so
I get in the van and as we're getting closer,
(26:47):
we'll get the Huntsville and you start seeing all these prisons,
and that's why I started feeling the way to the
situation until Kay, I'm getting here. You know, what's this
nature done in my life? Is going to be Like
we get to where they process everybody, and I get
the van and they know I'm going a death row.
No walking up the steps. The guard says, hurry, don't
get him in here. If I had to kill him,
army man, I needed that. What I heard that guard
(27:08):
tell me that that sit the tone for me right there.
I realized that he was just playing around, But to me,
it wasn't planned for. That just set my mind set
for my time on it. So I had the unit
I was in the law library, I was fighting. I
lived at them as my enemy, and I never was
delusion that they was my friend or that they cared
about me or anything like that. You know, I always
thought about what that guard said when I was walking
(27:30):
up town steps, and so it just became a bigger
motivator for me. So you're working your case in the
law library to save your own life, and eventually Meryl
joined your fight about a decade later. So, Meryl, how
in the world did you find out about Clinton Young
who was sentenced to death. It's almost half a world
away in Texas while you're over in the Netherlands, presumably
(27:53):
leading a relatively normal life. Whatever that is probably more
or less the life of your parents envision for you,
which I'm guessing is probably not this one. They definitely
did not imagine I would move to Texas in I
was in law school in Rotterdam in the Netherlands, and
I just got back from an internship in New York
(28:15):
City where I interned for a defense attorney who was
working on white color crimes and representing people who took
a lot of money from Wall Street, for example. And
I was very interested in the American criminal justice system.
And when I got back in I I did some research,
and I watched documentaries and I read online about anything
(28:38):
I could get my hands on. And I saw a
documentary about the death penalty in Texas and Clincaen was
interviewed about what it was like being on death row,
and he said, I did not get a fair trial.
I'm innocent. I didn't kill these two people. And at
the time I did not know whether or not that
(28:58):
was true. But I saw the difference by looking at him,
and he was so young, and he was sentenced to
death at nineteen and I started thinking about the clients
that I helped in New York City who were very rich,
would not go to prison, had a lot of money
to hire the best attorneys, and Clint didn't have that,
(29:18):
and he was on death row for a crime he
said he didn't commit. And that contrast that really got
to me. I kept thinking about it and decided to
write him a letter, and yeah, he wrote me back,
and that's how that story started. So let's talk about
the post conviction litigation, and the story doesn't get any
less crazy here. So in Clint has been through the
(29:44):
entire appeals process and he's lost everything, and they set
his execution date for October twenty six, two thousand and seventeen.
And that's when Clint's defense lawyers requested to do new
testing on the gloves down at the second crime scene.
The clubs were previously tested for DNA and they found
(30:06):
David Page is DNA on the inside and Clinton's DNA
was excluded, so we know that David Page wore those gloves.
Those clubs were found in very close proximity to the victim,
and they tested it for gunshot residue. An expert wrote
a report on it, and he said, I found gunshot residue,
(30:27):
and given the location and the amount of the gunshot
residue that I found on these gloves, I really only
have one conclusion, and that is that the person who
was wearing the gloves was at the same time also
firing a gun. And the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals
on October eighteen stayed his execution because if possible false
(30:48):
testimony given by David Page during Clinton's trial. Wow, so
just a week before the execution, and there's some other
information you've got at that time as well. Exactly a
couple of days after the Mitland County d A. Laura
Nodolf sends an email to Clinton attorneys saying, oh, by
(31:09):
the way, I did an interview with David Page a
couple of weeks ago. It's not material to the conviction
at all, but here's a copy. Good luck with it.
Clans attorney's lessened to the tape and discover that David
Page gives a confession in that interview and he says
I was the one who kidnapped the second victim. So
(31:30):
to Mitland County Day's office with helped that tape to
only give it to the defense team until after his
execution got stayed. Would they have turned it over if
Clinton's execution was not stayed. No, I don't think so.
They wanted to bury that even though that interview alone
would have given Clinton a stay of execution. They would
have buried that, and they would have buried him exactly.
(31:52):
The Texas scored A Criminal Appeals gave Clinton an evident
Charity hearing finally in on the possible false test money
of David Paige, and included in that hearing was going
to be the withholding of the favorable interview and confession
by David Page. Two days before that evidentiary hearing was
(32:13):
going to take place, Laura no dolf sends a message
to Clint's defense human says, Oh, we just found some documents.
We are probably going to end up as witnesses ourselves
in this case now, so it's better free recused. The
evidence shows that Ralph Petty, who was an assistant District
(32:34):
attorney for the Mittland County d a's office for seventeen
years while he was prosecuting Clinton, had also worked as
a paid law clerk for the judges who were presiding
over Clint's case, and in that capacity he drafted rulings
for the judges on Clint's case. He decided on motions,
(32:54):
he was interviewing witnesses. The list goes on and on.
It's absolutely insane. So that was discus covered only two
days before that hearing was going to take place. Very conveniently,
i must say, because now no one was going to
look at the withholding of that tape of David Page
because the avidentery hearing got postponed. Obviously, this was huge news,
(33:16):
and Clans attorneys filed a new red application, asked to
CCA to reopen the case based on prosecutorial misconduct, and
they did, and they held a short evidentiary hearing in
January this year, and in April there were closing arguments.
And normally when you have closing arguments after an evidentiary hearing,
(33:39):
a trial judge is going to take a few weeks
to decide on what recommendation he's going to give to
the cec A. And Clans attorney's obviously said we need
a new trial judge. This is unheard of, this is
outrageous prosecutoral misconduct. Clinton never had a fair trial. The state,
interestingly enough. First said, well, we can kind of see
that this is not great. How However, later on they said,
(34:01):
you know what, Judge, we actually think that Ralph Petty
built an ethical wall between his work for did the
Gas Office and his work for the judge. So really,
we don't see anything wrong with this. We should just
keep the conviction in taxt The idea that he was
able to build an ethical wall in between his work
as a prosecutor and his work basically judging his own work,
(34:24):
it's like it's literally the wolf guarding the henhouse. The
beautiful thing is the trial judge. He didn't believe it either.
He didn't buy any of that. During the closing arguments,
everyone had said what they wanted to say and I
was about to close it off because it was on zoom,
and the judge, instead of waiting a couple of weeks,
immediately said at the end, Mr Young, I'm going to
(34:46):
recommend that you get a new trial. And everyone was
just shocked. I was shocked. I was like, did he
just really say that? But he did, so that was great,
and that recommendation got sent to the Texas Court of
Criminal Appeals and in September they completely vacated Clinton's conviction
and death sentence, and in October he was taken off
(35:08):
of death row and sent back to the Midland County Jail,
where he is now awaiting his new trial. So, Clinton,
in September one, when you heard this that, after all
this time on death row and coming within a week
of being executed, your conviction was being overturned. What was
that moment like for you? Okay, I was sitting there
talking to a friend of mine, and I have been
(35:28):
listening to the local news, but I didn't hear it.
All of a sudden, Ricky Cummings are screaming Ammy, and
he's screaming so loud I can't make it out, and
I go, what's up, doctor, conviction? Overtime? It is overtime, Christion.
And I was like, man already, And so I was
a lady, and I was excited. Man, it was just
a great killing. So Clinton has been speaking with us
(35:49):
from inside Midland County Jail for most of this episode,
but in January of two, he was released on bond
while he awaits a new trial. So Clinton, what can
I say, buddy, Well, come home, how are you feeling.
I'm feeling good, you know, you know, I'm the first
person in Texas history to get out on bond after
getting a new trial off death role and still being
(36:09):
under indictment for capital murder. It's never happened before. I
certainly wish I could get out and do more, but
being on house arrest, I'm limited to what I can do.
So I must admit that this is the best jail
cell I ever been in. Uh, everyone here at the
Wrong Book Fiction podcast and so many other people are
just ecstatic about this news. So what does this all mean.
(36:30):
What's the status of your case? Well, right now it's
in the review phase because the prosecutors they're new to
everything and so they really don't know the ins analysis
of the entire case. And sometimes a fresh, saidilies is
a good thing. There's also elections coming up, primaries and
stuff like that to get in fact who's working on
the case, and so everything is just really in limbo
(36:51):
right now. This case is not the same case as
it was in two thousand and three when I went
to trial. It's not gonna be fought the same way.
The evidence it was given to the je has been
attacked so efficiently, and new evidence has been developed, such
as forensic testing, codefendants confessing in part or bragging about
getting away with murder. There's so much more that's known.
(37:13):
I think reasonable minds could agree that at this point
the state should really just drop the charges. It's abundantly
clear at this point that Clinton didn't kill anybody. We
still want to make sure that we do everything we
can to make sure that this time he receives a
fair trial. So the Clinton Young Foundation, for which I
am the legal director, has made sure that Clinton now
(37:37):
has an amazing defense team. Dick de Garon, who has
decades of trial experience in Texas, and Mark White, fantastic
lawyer as well, are now representing him during his new trial.
So the Clinton Foundation will keep raising awareness. We have
to keep raising money to make sure that we can
(37:59):
pay all the legal phase because a good defense team,
unfortunately in this country, is not free. And I have
to say, Dick to Garren is a legend in courtrooms
in Texas and even around the country. For people who
do want to help, How do they donate, how do
they sign up? How do they do whatever they need
to do in order to help Clinton, Well, they should
(38:21):
go to Linda Young Foundation dot com. And we have
a Facebook page, Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, you name it, we
got it. We're going to put links to all of
that in the bio. So please sign the petition, donate
if you can, and even if you can't, spread the
word okay, because together we can right this horrible wrong
and now at wrongful Conviction, as everybody knows, do, we
(38:43):
have my favorite part of the show, which is called
closing Arguments, And Merrill, first of all, thank you for
just being a beacon of light and a force for
good and for taking time to come and be here
with us on Wrongful Conviction today. And you know I've
really been looking forward to this. And Clinton, thank you
for being here and for sharing your important story. We're
(39:06):
hoping to see you fully enjoying true freedom really soon.
So now closing Arguments works like this same more or
less every time. I'm gonna turn my microphone off, leave
my headphones on, kick up the volume, and kick back
in my chair and let you talk about whatever else
is on your mind that we may not have already
covered already. So let's Meryl, let's go with you first.
(39:29):
Then you can just hand the mic off to Clinton
and let him take us off into the sunset well, Jason,
thank you so much for paying attention and using your
resources to highlight these wrongful convictions. Because it's not just
defense lawyers who do the work, it's advocates like you
who can also truly make a difference by creating awareness
(39:51):
and spreading this news all over the country. So that
is just such a huge, huge contribution and very important work.
I know how heart this work can be and how
rare it is that we win cases, but once we do,
I really hope Clinton's case can be an example to
other people to never give up hope, to never never
(40:15):
give up the fight. And now Clinton over to you.
So I made bad choices in my life. They put
me on past I shouldn't have been on. I have
suffered them injustice. But one of the saddest things about
this case is the concept of closure for the victim's family.
The distric Attorney's office convinced them that I killed their
loved ones and that I was going to be executed.
(40:36):
So not only have I gone through this process, the
victims family has gone through this process and it's been
traumatizing to them because they had this belief that there
would be closer, that there would be this concept of justice,
you know concept me personally. I was born into a
line of chaos in many ways that really have a
fair chance in life. And I say that what I
(40:57):
want in life was that trinity of humanity, that's what
I call it, to be loved, safe and free. And
so people asking what I want, I want to build
to get out and have that basic trinity of humanity,
to be loved, safe and free, and to build a
live life, still do something productive in life. And one
of the things that death rows it was it actually
(41:18):
gave me life. Man. I met a lot of great
people down as it road me and a lot of
people done things to help me. The documentary that was
made about my case really helped highlight my story and
the injustice that I went through, and it brought a
lot of good people into my life. It wasn't telling
me I was bad or those things. They were telling
me I was good and then I could do great
things and I had this potential and it helps installed
(41:40):
confidence in me that I had never had in my childhood.
And so it made me focus more about my legacy
and what I want to do in this world. And
I don't want to just be a good person. I
want to be able to do great things. I want
to shape the world around me. I have a passion
for helping other people. I have a passion for justice.
I see a lot of people get executed. It should
(42:02):
never been executed. I see how broken our system is,
how favors are rich that are politically connected, and so
I wanted to have a family, be free, live life,
and do great things in this world. If I get
out today, I mean I have the life maybe that
I never would have had before because the people I've met,
I mean, as crazy as it seems, people might not
understand it, but pointed death role gave me life and
(42:24):
it made me a better person. It made me evaluate
my inanity. It made me think about the people in
my life that I've heard and I said. It made
me want to do better, to be better, and to
accomplish a great things. I got my travision overturned and
I want step closer. Time will tell how everything works out.
I want to thank Jason for this opportunity. Thank you.
(42:45):
In addition to all that I've previously stated, Now that
I am out on Bond, I look forward to living
up to my goals, being the man that I know
I can be and proven to society that I can
be a productive member of society, and also showing the
world that you don't have to throw away human beings,
that we can change that twenty years later we're not
(43:07):
the same person. I look forward to action, not talk.
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to
thank our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Clyburne,
and Kevin Wardis with research by Lila Robinson. The music
(43:27):
in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated
composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram
at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and
on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava
for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow
me on both TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason flom
(43:49):
ralevul Conviction is the production of Lava for Good Podcasts
and association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!