January 19, 2023 • 33 mins
In 2011, 17 year old Octavius Williams was at a Halloween party hosted by his father and his father’s girlfriend in Cleveland, OH. Toward the end of the party a fight broke out in the backyard of the apartment building and Cole was shot. Cole survived, but suffered lower-body paralysis. Several witnesses said that Octavius’ brother Ricky was the shooter. But Cole identified Octavius as the person who shot him. Despite Cole’s account being the only one naming Octavius, Octavius was convicted of attempted murder and sentenced to 15 years in prison.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
In the fall of two thousand ten, Cleveland High School
basketball phene Nomini Octavius Williams had just begun his junior
year when his younger sister turned ten, Their father and
his father's girlfriend through a big party at their apartment
to celebrate on Halloween, bringing their blended family together. As
day turned into night, the children's party turned into an
(00:22):
adult party, and as things wound down, a fight began
outside between members of either family. Two people drew guns,
and one man, Dennis Cole, ended up in the hospital
paralyzed from the waist down. Police were told that the
shooter was a young black man who had already fled
the scene. When they went upstairs to speak with the
partygoers in the apartment, they found and arrested a young
(00:45):
black man, seventeen year old Octavius Williams. The victim eventually
stabilized and identified Octavius from a photo array. Despite conflicting
accounts of what happened during the shooting, it appears the
state had clear of They got their man. But this
is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. Today's story. Well,
(01:22):
I'll just say Shakespeare could have written this one, and
he would rank up there with some of the crazy
plot twists and some of his best work. And you're
going to find out why as we go along in
today's episode. And without further ado, I want to introduce
our guests. With two guests today, the man himself who
(01:42):
lived through this absolutely bizarre and insane sequence of events,
Octavius Williams. Octavius um happier here, but I'm sorry, do
you hear, because of what happened to you that brought
you to this point. But anyway, welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
There's a pleasure of being here for sure. Thank you.
With Octavias is JOANNEA. Sanchez and Joanna is the director
(02:04):
of the Wrongful Conviction Project at the office of the
Ohio Public Defender. So I imagine, Joanna, you have your
hands full and I'm glad that you are here to
share with us about this incredible story. So welcome to
the show. Thanks so much for having us and this story.
This is a relatively recent case compared to some of
the cases listening. We have cases back from the seventies, um,
(02:26):
but this one, this one happened just I mean, it's
a short time ago. It was also a long time
ago two thousand and eleven. Of course, this is Kuya
Hooga County, and we've heard that name again and again
on this podcast as sort of a hotbed of wrongful convictions.
And I want to go back Octavia's two before this
Horrible Night, where what started off as sounds like a
joyous occasion turned into this tragedy left some body paralyzed
(02:51):
and and and put your life on paralysis. Really, I mean,
it's an awful scenario all the way around. But your life,
for that was full of promise. Tell us a little
bit about the family dynamic and what was your life
like growing up? What we what were you into on
my life? He was saying, like a regular life, like
you know, my parents was. Everything was cool, even though
(03:12):
they was divorced and he was doing on the west
side of my dad was doing the west side. It
was just we was always close, you know, so it
was never a split time in between that we didn't
see each other. Like I said, everything was cool. It
was two households obvious. Used to go to my dad
house a lot because we had a different bond than
me and my mom. Other than that, they decided to
send me to my own school because I guess they've
seeing that I had a different potential than my other siblings.
(03:35):
I understand you were like a super talented basketball player,
is that right? Yeah? And still is, But like that
was my passion. Anybody my family say I was a
golden ticket. Let let them tell it. Before I was accostrated,
I was attending this school called Margaret Island is on Chester.
They gave me a shot to be on their team,
and I took it. Then though, I was that good,
(03:56):
you know, but you know, just enough to be scouted,
you know, when and out of nowhere, it just it
take it away, you know. So you were you were
in the eleventh grade when this when this, uh, when
it's her, Well, you were coming up in your reputation.
I mean, if it's reached all the way up to
New York one, there must have been some excitement around
(04:17):
your potential. So tell us a little bit about what
happened that night. Why how did you end up at
this party? Was it? Whose house was it at? My
dad was Ardenterian, his girlfriend Consuela. They threw a party
from my little sister. It was her birthday, like literally
like about your birthday. But we threw it on Halloween.
She was turning seeing. Somehow, some way, it ended up
(04:39):
an adult party at nighttime. Every brought everybody together, like
everything was cool, Everything was cordial. You know, everybody was
having a good time. You know, there was never no
problems between the families, you know what I'm saying. But
some ways, somehow, I don't nowhere. At the end of
the party, as things were settling it down, all the
alter care and stuff start happening. Yeah, this started at
(05:00):
a Halloween party in two thousand and ten. So Octavius's dad,
Arden and Arden's girlfriend Kenezuela, We're hosting a party at
their house. They had about thirty to forty family members
there and as the party starts to wind down, going
to about midnight, a bit of a conflict erupts, and
so no one really knows like why the fight started.
(05:21):
It's a verbal fight kind of. The two sides of
the family are arguing a bit. At that point, Octavius
and his dad and some others are upstairs in their
apartment and this is happening down in the backyard behind
the apartment. So Octavius's dad goes downstairs the backyard. He
confronts one of the men, Larry who's kind of causing
some of the problems, and Larry shoots a gun and
(05:44):
he starts shooting towards Arden, so Arden ducks down. There's
guns firing, and then when the shooting stops, a man
named Dennis Cole, who was Conezuela's cousin, and her other cousin,
Cedric Johnson, are both shot and Dennis has been shot
in the chest in the back, and the police come
and they say, you know who shot you? And he
(06:05):
can't say at that time more than juvenile blackmail. And
you know, there's quite a few people at the party
that match that description, but some of the other individuals
who had been at the party by the point the
police get there, they've already left. And so at that
point there's a lot of people out there just yelling
names and saying, you know, was that this person was
(06:26):
at that person? And so the police at some point
here in the name Tete and that's octavius nickname, and
so I think that sets them on the path towards Octavius.
The police they go upstairs and Octavius is upstairs in
the apartment. He's in the bedroom with a bunch of
the kids who are there and they're like, hey, this
guy matches the description in the sense that he's a
(06:47):
seventeen year old black kid, and so they test him
for gunshot residue. It comes back negative. They look for
guns weapons on him, they find nothing. By this point,
they've heard that the person actually did the shooting has
left the party. But even with all of that, they
decided let's arrest him, and so they arrested Octavius and
take him to the police station. They didn't know that
(07:09):
I was under age. They took me straight to the
adult jail. I know, I was scared shitless. They didn't
even ask my age and know that they just straight
took me to the big house until they realized that
whenever in my social that I was a juvenile. Then
I had to sit there for a little bit before
they transferred back to the juvenile. You know, they had
(07:31):
you stripped down all this, I mean I was I
felt volid it. No, I never still negdi in front
of a man before. I mean, you were still a child,
just a junior in high school, thrust into a very
adult situation. And despite the negative GSR test, no weapons
on you. Hearing that the shooter had already left the party.
They just went ahead and booked you anyway. And meanwhile,
(07:54):
the victim, Dennis Cole, was at the hospital. He had
stabilized by now, and he had seen his shooter. Now,
at the time Dennis Cole was shot, there's a lot
of problems that would lead to an unreliable identification. So,
first of all, there's a gun involved in this crime,
which we know can distract someone from really looking at
the perpetrator. We also know it was dark, and perhaps
(08:17):
most significantly, Dennis Cole had a blood alcohol of point
to seven at the time that this occurred, and so
he's more than three times the legal limit. And that's
the circumstances that he's observing this crime. And so Dennis
Cole was shot in the chest and the back. You know,
he survived. He was in the hospital for several months.
He was paralyzed, but he did survive. And so the
police get there. He gives this description again. This time
(08:40):
he adds a little bit more details. So he says,
you know, black male juvenile. It was one of Arden's sons,
not the one with the hair. And so Arden had
several sons. Octavius has a few brothers, so a few
of them are at the party, and Dennis's family says,
you know, if he says it's the one not with
the hair, well, then that's Ricky. That's an Octavius, that's Ricky.
And by this point the police are starting to get
calls from people saying Ricky Williams committed this crime. That's
(09:03):
Octavius's older brother. But they still move forward with putting
Octavius in a photo array and showing it to Dennis Cole.
The only person who was at the party who's in
this array is Octavius, and he's heard the name at
some point in the background, so he identifies him and
selects him from the photo ray. Right, so they knew
(09:24):
that the shooter was somebody at the party. The victim
had identified the shooter as quote, one of Arden's sons,
not the one with the hair end quote. According to
the victim's own family, what that meant was that it
was octavius older brother, Ricky, who looks a lot like
Octavius and who was also at the party. If they
had wanted to make a more reasonable photo ration, they've
(09:46):
included at least Ricky's photo, or perhaps pictures of other
people who are at the party. I mean, nonetheless, the
only person in this photo array that was even at
the party was Octavious. Now, the image of Octavius is
Ace was the one that Dennis Cole had gotten fixed
in his mind as the shooter. At some point several
(10:06):
months later, they'll give Dennis the photo ray that includes
Ricky Williams. But at that point he's already picked Dr
Tavius and committed to that identification. So you know, he
doesn't make the selection at that point either. Well, many
people think their minds operate more or less like cameras.
In fact, that's not even close to the truth. And
(10:27):
our minds played tricks on us in all kinds of ways.
But among other things, we will start to tailor our
memory to match influences that are shown to us or
suggested to us. And so, you know, here's a guy
who's been through this horrific experience of being shot twice
and is now laying in this hospital bed and and
(10:48):
and his as you said, his blood alcohol level, I mean,
he was really drunk. So that is the beginning of
his memory sort of fixing itself onto O. Now the
police have this identification, and they're really not looking at
anything else. At that point, they're really not considering other leads.
(11:09):
At trial, there's multiple people who testified that Ricky was
the person who was responsible for this shooting. Octavius and
Ricky's little sister, Jessica, was upstairs in the apartment. You know,
here's like this fight going on in the backyard. So
she looks out to see what's going on and she
sees Ricky back there with a gun. There's another young
boy upstairs, Reginald Ward, he's fourteen years old. He's actually
(11:31):
the victim's cousin, and he looks out also and here's
the fight, and he sees Dennis Cole go up to
Ricky punch him in the face, and then Ricky shoot him.
So there are people who are on the scene that
night who know that Ricky Williams was responsible for this.
And what we learned looking at the trial was that
the police actually started to get messages and voice mails
(11:54):
saying hey, Ricky Williams is the one who committed this crime,
and they don't go out and talk to him. You know,
they I think they said Davis's family like, hey, let
let Ricky know we want to talk to him, but
they didn't actually go find him, or bring him in
or try to interrogate him or even interview him. They
just kind of collected that information but still went forward
(12:15):
investigating and prosecuting Octavius. How lazy can you be that
you have multiple people coming forward, tips coming in and
they can't even be bothered to go and speak to him,
And at that very moment they should have switched course.
Octavius should have been freed, Ricky should have been arrested,
and we should never be making this podcast right now.
(12:38):
But that's, of course not what happened. Octavious. You were
charged with attempted murder and several other related defenses. All
of this must have just I mean, how how were
you able to process this as a seventeen year old kid.
You're not even a senior in high school, yet you're
just a child. I didn't process it until I was
(13:00):
asked the imprison I understand that being a jail is hard,
but being a jail innocent, though, and you know that
you are, is way harder, real hard. There's another sick
aspect of this that I have to focus on, which
is the fact that Octavius was tried as an adult
because he turned a came before the trial began. Now,
(13:22):
how does that make any freakondifference? Right, he was seventeen
when it happened. If you were so in theory, they
could this crime could have happened and he was thirteen.
They could have held him five years until trial and
then and we've seen that before too, But it's nut.
You can't both be a child and an adult at
the same time. But they managed to try him as
an adult. Anyway. Now, at trial, the victim testified that
(13:45):
you were the shooter, Octavius, but multiple other witnesses testified
under oath that you were upstairs in the apartment when
the fight and the shooting occurred, and the shooting obviously
with downstairs, and witnesses who watched the fight from the
window in the apartment testified that Key shot to victim,
not you. I didn't know that it was him that
(14:05):
shot anybody. I didn't know that. It was for sure
hard to process when I when I realized that what
people were saying that who it was. So the child
lasted five days, and the jury had a choice between
the perspective of all these other witnesses who were directly
contradicting the victim himself, who had by now convinced himself
(14:28):
that you were the person that had shot him, and
off they went to deliberate. I just sat there. And
the reason that I was cool and I was calm
is because I had I knew that I had to
keep my composure no matter what the verdict was. But
I was angry. I'm just very good at keeping it
to myself. I'm very good at hot in it. But
when they came up with that verdict, though, I felt
(14:51):
like my heart stopped, just just just the beat or two.
But you know, I got I got my my hair back.
I never thought that I would be the one to
(15:14):
be and causer ready as a fresh eighteen in there.
Uh you know, I had to take the scenery in
and had to get used to me being around a
lot of older people, a lot of killers, a lot
of rapists in all this that I'm not used to,
you know, So I had to adapt to my surroundings.
(15:35):
And it was kind of hard, you know, because of
the unexpected fights and stuff like that. Like you know,
you're seeing movies and things like that, it's not how
it is, and movies, you know, this really pop off
like nowhere. So from what I understand, not long after
your trial concluded, your brother came forward and actually confessed
to shooting Mr Cole. I believe he even made a
(15:56):
written statement where he said, and I quote. Shortly after
the party ended, an argument occurred outside the apartment complex
between my father, Ardent Terry, and Larry Johnson. They had
a few words back and forth, but once the argument
reached the back of the apartment, I was right in
front of the back door, and all of a sudden,
Larry Johnson started shooting towards me and my father's direction.
(16:18):
And shortly after, Dennis Cole ran at me and punched
me in the eye, and I pulled out my gun
and shot him out of fear for me and my
family's lives because shots were being fired at us first.
And quote, Wow, that's a pretty detailed confession. And this
all happened within a month or so of your trial,
while you were being processed into Toledo Correctional where you'd
(16:42):
spend a long stretch. So when you heard about this confession, like,
I can't even imagine, like, what was your reaction? I was,
I was, oh man, and I didn't know anything about it.
Oh man, I was, I was pissed, like I was
really I was really pissed like Peru, because if the
people would have done what this we're supposed to do,
then maybe that would have made it, all of it.
(17:03):
It's a little correctional inscision. Oh yeah, I was. I was.
I was for sure that was that was passed. I
was angry with you that all of this could have
been avoided. Did you have an attorney at that time,
and if so, I imagine you were on the phone
with with him or her in seconds, going hey, get
me out of here. This is right. I tried. I'm
not gonna say that in reply to my messages or whatnot,
(17:24):
but it took weeks for me to get something back
from them, you know, when they have all of this
in the front of them. Yeah, that sly seems like
one of these situations where the doors should just swing
open and you should come running out into the sunshine.
But of course that's not the way it works. Joanna,
how did you get involved? And this must have blown
your mind when you heard that there was this detailed
(17:45):
confession as well as all this other evidence pointing to
actual innocence. Octiv is applied to our project. I think
around two thousand and twelve, and so we had a
couple of students assigned to it and they started looking
into it, and you know right away there's red aggs
for us. So the first is that the only evidence
that implicates him is this eyewitness identification, that it's just
(18:07):
plagued with problems. And then there's no physical evidence, and
we've got these witnesses at trial who are saying Ricky
Williams did the crime. So we started investigating, and the
focus of our investigation was really too confirm some of
the things that happened at trial. To go out and
talk to Reginald Ward and Schifond to English and Jessicatian say,
(18:28):
you know, is what you testified to it trial true?
And then we wanted to consult with an eyewitness identification
expert and make sure that what we thought we were
seeing about the identification that we were correct and that
there were all these problems, right, these are all the
issues that could have and should have already been known
at the time of trial. But then there's this confession
(18:50):
from Ricky Williams. We actually went and talked to Ricky.
We sent out an investigator before we had ever seen
the affidavit that he had already signed, and so our
investigator goes to talk to Ricky, and Ricky immediately starts
talking about that night and says, hey, I committed this crime.
And so he signs an affidavit right there in front
(19:10):
of our investigator, going through everything that happened that night,
which matches up exactly with what the witnesses said, which
is that there was this fight and Dennis Cole punched
Ricky and Ricky shot him. And so once we got
that confession, yeah, of course we thought we had it
locked up. This is this is as clear evidence as
we could get that Octavius has been telling us the
(19:32):
truth this whole time. He didn't commit this crime, and
we thought that it was clear he was innocent and
that he should be released. But of course the wheels
of justice turned quickly when we're processing somebody into the system,
but when we're trying to right those wrongs, they turned
at his nail's pace. And this is a dramatic example
(19:53):
of it, because even in a case like this, where
it couldn't be more obvious and had I'm going to say,
if the police had done their jobs in the first place,
if they had just gotten interviewed Ricky. They probably would
have seen a bruise if he was punched in the eye.
Granted they couldn't have gotten maybe the gunshot residue, because
if they couldn't have found him that night, it would
have been washed away. But this would have been a
(20:16):
very simple case to solve, had people been interested in
really solving it as opposed to just putting a black
body behind bars. So it was submitted for review by
the Conviction Integrity Unit of the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office,
and they, as I understand it, conducted an extensive investigation.
So around the time that we had collected all of
(20:38):
the evidence in this case, michael'malley had come into office,
and part of his campaign had been to take this
Conviction Integrity Unit and really put some resources behind it
and make it a legitimate unit. So that's why we
submitted Octavius case. In our mind, it was like, this
is clear as day. Let's show them the evidence and
try to work together. And as you said, for two
(21:00):
and a half years they investigated this case. They talked
to all sorts of witnesses, they tested evidence, We let
them look at the defense files, they talked to Octavius,
and in fact, a prosecutor and I actually went out
and interviewed Ricky Williams together, and Ricky confessed on tape
to a prosecutor. And after wrapping up what they say,
(21:20):
we're several years of investigative work on the story behind
octavius conviction. The see i use Internal Review Board cast
a majority vote in favor of what the criminal justice
system calls and our audience is very familiar with those
words exoneration and actual innocence. The see i use Independent
Review Panel concurred with it. Get this a unanimous vote.
(21:42):
They said that Octavius Williams was innocent of this crime.
There two panels, one internal, one made of community members,
as you said, voted in favor of exoneration. And so
once we heard that news, were of course elated. We
think this is that we think Octavius is coming home
help be exonerated. And then we learned that the elected prosecutor,
(22:02):
Michael O'Malley wouldn't agree to exoneration. So rather than letting
activa Is out and agreeing to move the court to
dismiss the charges, he agreed to let him out, but
not to clear the case. And so in Ohio. That's
called judicial release. So in December of two, nineteen, Octavius
gets to go home after serving about ten eleven years
(22:25):
in prison, but still has this attempted murder charge hanging
over his head. It's nuts the fact that he went
against the unanimous recommendation of his own unit that he
had so highly touted during his campaign. I can't even
begin to speculate what his motives are. There's a quote
(22:49):
where he said, what is justice in this case? I
think in this particular case, we did the best we could.
I think we did what was right end quote. What
in the world is he talking about? And what would
he possibly have been motivated by to still want to
deny justice and what is probably one of the easiest
(23:12):
exoneration cases he's ever going to see. Nonetheless, on December Octavis,
you were free to go, but you weren't declared innocent.
So this must have been as joyous as it must
have been to finally walk out into the free air.
(23:32):
Must have been bitter sweet. No, yeah, it was. It
was to know that I was at home. It was
more sweet than bitter, though, you know, because I was
actually outside of that place. Again. You know what I'm saying,
and then as I said it realized I still have
the same thing had on my head. So not that
messages with my future job wise, I can't get a
(23:53):
good job with the top one Fetterly, you have to
really put your neck out there. I hope that it
don't get cut off a note for you to make
his meet. The fact that they made you wear an
(24:16):
ankle monitor and I have a thirty day curfew and
two years on probation is really rubbing salt in the wound.
And I think it's insulting not just to you, but
to the public um and to the members of the
board who you know, who carefully considered this case, to
the people who worked two and a half years to
investigate this case. It's yeah, it's an it's all to
(24:39):
all of those people and to everyone who cares about
justice that they would double down, so to speak, on
this wrongful conviction. And one other thing that's happened recently,
this just occurred in November of last year, is that
all of the community members of the Conviction Integrity Unit resigned.
And they resigned because for the past couple of years
(25:01):
they hadn't been given any cases and because they had
met with the prosecutor and talked about what they wanted
their role to be, and they believed in the mission
of the Conviction Directory Unit and wanted to be able
to use that unit to achieve justice for people and
didn't feel that they were being given the opportunity to
do that. And and so they resigned. And there's no
(25:22):
longer any community members of the unit at this point. Wow,
that's powerful statement. I can send you their resignation letter
which has you know, all the reasons why they resigned. Yeah,
everyone be on the lookout for that on our Instagram.
I mean, how in the world could the community members
of the Cuyahoga County ce IU not be given any
(25:43):
cases at all to review for years, just not even
given them at all to even review. From what we
know about that town, there should be somewhere between a
steady flow and an avalanche of cases, because it's about
as corrupt as it gets. So we for a full
exoneration in octavious case. And maybe this episode will serve
(26:04):
to shine some light on the Cuyahoga CiU and the
wishes of those community members. We'd hate to think that
the CiU over there is just a bunch of window dressing,
something to be talked about around election time. Let's go
ahead and hold Michael Maalley accountable. And speaking of accountability,
I'm guessing that the decision to leave this conviction hanging
over Octavius head means that they never went after Ricky.
(26:27):
Is that accurate? That's right? So Ricky has never been
charged with this offense. He's incarcerated for another offense, so
shooting that occurred about a year after the events that
gave rise to this case. But this is a person
who's confessed over and over that he shot an individual
on October thirty one, two thousand ten, and he's never
been charged with that crime. I can't even begin to
(26:50):
imagine what the hell anybody's thinking. I mean, if they
were prosecuting Ricky, they certainly would use these confessions as
proof to get their conviction. I mean, it's the most
compelling evidence that he committed this crime. But when we're
talking about using it to exonerate Octavious, it's not good enough.
(27:10):
Of course, It's an infamous double standard that we see
over and over again all through our criminal legal system.
So where are we at in that fight? He's free,
But that doesn't mean you guys are just gonna give
up on his full exoneration. After Octavius was released, we
still went ahead and filed emotion seeking a new trial,
And the basis of that was the fact that Ricky
(27:32):
has confessed all of these times and the report of
an Eyewinness identification expert really talking about the problems with
Dennis Cole's identification. So we filed that at the beginning
of Then the pandemic hits, so things really slowed down
in the courts for quite a long time, and eventually
last May we had hearing on the motion, and so
right now we're waiting on a decision on that's been
(27:54):
pending for about seven months. But if that's granted, the
impact of that will be that octavius conviction will be vacated.
And at that point, if if we do achieve that,
we hope that Michaelmalley will dismiss the charges and that
help be exonerated. Well, let's hope that we don't see
a judge willing to ignore this clear case of innocence,
(28:15):
as Mr O'Malley seems so comfortable in doing before him. Now,
in the meantime, with this conviction still hanging over your head.
I know it's been tough looking for work. You don't
have a go fund me or anything like that, but
I'm sure there are members of our audience would like
to help in your job search. I mean, I hope. So,
if there's somebody in the area that's got something, what
(28:37):
kind of work are you looking for. I'm been looking
for demolition. I'm looking for factory jobs. You know, I've
just got my tullowder license. You know. Also, that's basically
what I'm looking for. You still live in the Cleveland area, Yeah,
all right, So construction and factory type work in the
Cleveland area will have ways that our audience can reach
out to you just by simply going to the link
(28:57):
in our bio. So if you're somebody who's got an idea,
don't stop listening right now, put it on pause, and
go right to the link in the bio and and
reach out. And also, if anyone with a law degree
or some clout in the Cleveland area who wants to
offer their help in bringing about Octavius is full exoneration,
please do reach out as well. And with that we
come to my favorite part of the show, of course,
(29:19):
it's called closing arguments, and it works like this. I'm
gonna turn my microphone off, leave my headphones on, of course,
kick back in my chair, and close my eyes and
just listen to any other thoughts you want to share
with me and our amazing audience. Joanna, let's start with you,
and then of course we'll have Octavio's close out the show.
(29:40):
Thank you for having us today and for sharing this story.
I think Octavius's case is a really sad example of
how hard it can be for the wrongfully convicted to
obtain relief and to get justice. As we talked about today,
his case is really straightforward. We know who did it.
We've got multiple confessions from Key, we've got the conviction
(30:01):
Integrity Unit saying he should be exonerated, and still here
he sits with this hanging over his head. It's sad,
it's discouraging. It's the role of a prosecutor to seek justice,
not to maintain convictions, and that's not what happened here.
But we're thankful for the opportunity to shina light on
octivius case, and we're still fighting. You know. We filed
a motion for new trial after he got out, and
(30:23):
that's still pending. We're waiting for a decision on that,
so that hopefully in the in the coming months and years,
Octavius can move forward with his life and nothing will
ever make him home, nothing will ever give him those
ten years back or change what happened to him. But
while he's home, he hasn't gotten the true justice he deserves,
and our hope is that one day we can't accomplish
(30:43):
that for him. Yeah, man, how can you say that
you will free someone if you still have something hanging
over someone's head. How was that necessarily free? It's not free.
Send me Labory. You took me out of one hail
whole to make me feel that I'm free, But at
the same time, I'm not. A lot of it still
(31:05):
hurts to this day. Sometimes I don't speak about it,
you know what I'm saying, because I'm a type of person.
You know how a man is to keep it to
themselves and try to deal with it theirself. That's just me.
Sometimes I have a hard time. Sometimes I don't mental
state wise. You know, some people, I might look normal
all this and on the outside, but you know, it's
a lot going on in my in my mind because
(31:27):
I can't get out there. It's and everywhere I turned
I could hear and see something that reminds me of it.
The other day, I went to the mall with my
girl and we went there and I started getting anxious
because it was a lot of people in there, and
my hands started sweating. I started. I didn't know that
they still had that type of effect on me. This
was years later. It's not easy for the ones that
(31:48):
I've been there and constrated for a long time to
just adapt to what's going on. I'm still adapting. Um,
It's it's hard. I know that for sure. Sometimes you
have your mom is where you're you're happy, you're things
feel easy or would not just set the But a
lot of times it's just you don't know really what's
going on. You're just You're just in the world, just
the piece on the chessboard, wait for your move. Thank
(32:18):
you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank
our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburne, and Kevin Ortis.
With research by Lila Robinson. The music in this production
was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Be sure to follow us on Instagram. At Wrongful Conviction,
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at
(32:39):
wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On
all three platforms, you can also follow me on both
TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason flom ronvul Conviction is
a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with
Signal Company Number one
In the fall of two thousand ten, Cleveland High School
basketball phene Nomini Octavius Williams had just begun his junior
year when his younger sister turned ten, Their father and
his father's girlfriend through a big party at their apartment
to celebrate on Halloween, bringing their blended family together. As
day turned into night, the children's party turned into an
(00:22):
adult party, and as things wound down, a fight began
outside between members of either family. Two people drew guns,
and one man, Dennis Cole, ended up in the hospital
paralyzed from the waist down. Police were told that the
shooter was a young black man who had already fled
the scene. When they went upstairs to speak with the
partygoers in the apartment, they found and arrested a young
(00:45):
black man, seventeen year old Octavius Williams. The victim eventually
stabilized and identified Octavius from a photo array. Despite conflicting
accounts of what happened during the shooting, it appears the
state had clear of They got their man. But this
is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. Today's story. Well,
(01:22):
I'll just say Shakespeare could have written this one, and
he would rank up there with some of the crazy
plot twists and some of his best work. And you're
going to find out why as we go along in
today's episode. And without further ado, I want to introduce
our guests. With two guests today, the man himself who
(01:42):
lived through this absolutely bizarre and insane sequence of events,
Octavius Williams. Octavius um happier here, but I'm sorry, do
you hear, because of what happened to you that brought
you to this point. But anyway, welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
There's a pleasure of being here for sure. Thank you.
With Octavias is JOANNEA. Sanchez and Joanna is the director
(02:04):
of the Wrongful Conviction Project at the office of the
Ohio Public Defender. So I imagine, Joanna, you have your
hands full and I'm glad that you are here to
share with us about this incredible story. So welcome to
the show. Thanks so much for having us and this story.
This is a relatively recent case compared to some of
the cases listening. We have cases back from the seventies, um,
(02:26):
but this one, this one happened just I mean, it's
a short time ago. It was also a long time
ago two thousand and eleven. Of course, this is Kuya
Hooga County, and we've heard that name again and again
on this podcast as sort of a hotbed of wrongful convictions.
And I want to go back Octavia's two before this
Horrible Night, where what started off as sounds like a
joyous occasion turned into this tragedy left some body paralyzed
(02:51):
and and and put your life on paralysis. Really, I mean,
it's an awful scenario all the way around. But your life,
for that was full of promise. Tell us a little
bit about the family dynamic and what was your life
like growing up? What we what were you into on
my life? He was saying, like a regular life, like
you know, my parents was. Everything was cool, even though
(03:12):
they was divorced and he was doing on the west
side of my dad was doing the west side. It
was just we was always close, you know, so it
was never a split time in between that we didn't
see each other. Like I said, everything was cool. It
was two households obvious. Used to go to my dad
house a lot because we had a different bond than
me and my mom. Other than that, they decided to
send me to my own school because I guess they've
seeing that I had a different potential than my other siblings.
(03:35):
I understand you were like a super talented basketball player,
is that right? Yeah? And still is, But like that
was my passion. Anybody my family say I was a
golden ticket. Let let them tell it. Before I was accostrated,
I was attending this school called Margaret Island is on Chester.
They gave me a shot to be on their team,
and I took it. Then though, I was that good,
(03:56):
you know, but you know, just enough to be scouted,
you know, when and out of nowhere, it just it
take it away, you know. So you were you were
in the eleventh grade when this when this, uh, when
it's her, Well, you were coming up in your reputation.
I mean, if it's reached all the way up to
New York one, there must have been some excitement around
(04:17):
your potential. So tell us a little bit about what
happened that night. Why how did you end up at
this party? Was it? Whose house was it at? My
dad was Ardenterian, his girlfriend Consuela. They threw a party
from my little sister. It was her birthday, like literally
like about your birthday. But we threw it on Halloween.
She was turning seeing. Somehow, some way, it ended up
(04:39):
an adult party at nighttime. Every brought everybody together, like
everything was cool, Everything was cordial. You know, everybody was
having a good time. You know, there was never no
problems between the families, you know what I'm saying. But
some ways, somehow, I don't nowhere. At the end of
the party, as things were settling it down, all the
alter care and stuff start happening. Yeah, this started at
(05:00):
a Halloween party in two thousand and ten. So Octavius's dad,
Arden and Arden's girlfriend Kenezuela, We're hosting a party at
their house. They had about thirty to forty family members
there and as the party starts to wind down, going
to about midnight, a bit of a conflict erupts, and
so no one really knows like why the fight started.
(05:21):
It's a verbal fight kind of. The two sides of
the family are arguing a bit. At that point, Octavius
and his dad and some others are upstairs in their
apartment and this is happening down in the backyard behind
the apartment. So Octavius's dad goes downstairs the backyard. He
confronts one of the men, Larry who's kind of causing
some of the problems, and Larry shoots a gun and
(05:44):
he starts shooting towards Arden, so Arden ducks down. There's
guns firing, and then when the shooting stops, a man
named Dennis Cole, who was Conezuela's cousin, and her other cousin,
Cedric Johnson, are both shot and Dennis has been shot
in the chest in the back, and the police come
and they say, you know who shot you? And he
(06:05):
can't say at that time more than juvenile blackmail. And
you know, there's quite a few people at the party
that match that description, but some of the other individuals
who had been at the party by the point the
police get there, they've already left. And so at that
point there's a lot of people out there just yelling
names and saying, you know, was that this person was
(06:26):
at that person? And so the police at some point
here in the name Tete and that's octavius nickname, and
so I think that sets them on the path towards Octavius.
The police they go upstairs and Octavius is upstairs in
the apartment. He's in the bedroom with a bunch of
the kids who are there and they're like, hey, this
guy matches the description in the sense that he's a
(06:47):
seventeen year old black kid, and so they test him
for gunshot residue. It comes back negative. They look for
guns weapons on him, they find nothing. By this point,
they've heard that the person actually did the shooting has
left the party. But even with all of that, they
decided let's arrest him, and so they arrested Octavius and
take him to the police station. They didn't know that
(07:09):
I was under age. They took me straight to the
adult jail. I know, I was scared shitless. They didn't
even ask my age and know that they just straight
took me to the big house until they realized that
whenever in my social that I was a juvenile. Then
I had to sit there for a little bit before
they transferred back to the juvenile. You know, they had
(07:31):
you stripped down all this, I mean I was I
felt volid it. No, I never still negdi in front
of a man before. I mean, you were still a child,
just a junior in high school, thrust into a very
adult situation. And despite the negative GSR test, no weapons
on you. Hearing that the shooter had already left the party.
They just went ahead and booked you anyway. And meanwhile,
(07:54):
the victim, Dennis Cole, was at the hospital. He had
stabilized by now, and he had seen his shooter. Now,
at the time Dennis Cole was shot, there's a lot
of problems that would lead to an unreliable identification. So,
first of all, there's a gun involved in this crime,
which we know can distract someone from really looking at
the perpetrator. We also know it was dark, and perhaps
(08:17):
most significantly, Dennis Cole had a blood alcohol of point
to seven at the time that this occurred, and so
he's more than three times the legal limit. And that's
the circumstances that he's observing this crime. And so Dennis
Cole was shot in the chest and the back. You know,
he survived. He was in the hospital for several months.
He was paralyzed, but he did survive. And so the
police get there. He gives this description again. This time
(08:40):
he adds a little bit more details. So he says,
you know, black male juvenile. It was one of Arden's sons,
not the one with the hair. And so Arden had
several sons. Octavius has a few brothers, so a few
of them are at the party, and Dennis's family says,
you know, if he says it's the one not with
the hair, well, then that's Ricky. That's an Octavius, that's Ricky.
And by this point the police are starting to get
calls from people saying Ricky Williams committed this crime. That's
(09:03):
Octavius's older brother. But they still move forward with putting
Octavius in a photo array and showing it to Dennis Cole.
The only person who was at the party who's in
this array is Octavius, and he's heard the name at
some point in the background, so he identifies him and
selects him from the photo ray. Right, so they knew
(09:24):
that the shooter was somebody at the party. The victim
had identified the shooter as quote, one of Arden's sons,
not the one with the hair end quote. According to
the victim's own family, what that meant was that it
was octavius older brother, Ricky, who looks a lot like
Octavius and who was also at the party. If they
had wanted to make a more reasonable photo ration, they've
(09:46):
included at least Ricky's photo, or perhaps pictures of other
people who are at the party. I mean, nonetheless, the
only person in this photo array that was even at
the party was Octavious. Now, the image of Octavius is
Ace was the one that Dennis Cole had gotten fixed
in his mind as the shooter. At some point several
(10:06):
months later, they'll give Dennis the photo ray that includes
Ricky Williams. But at that point he's already picked Dr
Tavius and committed to that identification. So you know, he
doesn't make the selection at that point either. Well, many
people think their minds operate more or less like cameras.
In fact, that's not even close to the truth. And
(10:27):
our minds played tricks on us in all kinds of ways.
But among other things, we will start to tailor our
memory to match influences that are shown to us or
suggested to us. And so, you know, here's a guy
who's been through this horrific experience of being shot twice
and is now laying in this hospital bed and and
(10:48):
and his as you said, his blood alcohol level, I mean,
he was really drunk. So that is the beginning of
his memory sort of fixing itself onto O. Now the
police have this identification, and they're really not looking at
anything else. At that point, they're really not considering other leads.
(11:09):
At trial, there's multiple people who testified that Ricky was
the person who was responsible for this shooting. Octavius and
Ricky's little sister, Jessica, was upstairs in the apartment. You know,
here's like this fight going on in the backyard. So
she looks out to see what's going on and she
sees Ricky back there with a gun. There's another young
boy upstairs, Reginald Ward, he's fourteen years old. He's actually
(11:31):
the victim's cousin, and he looks out also and here's
the fight, and he sees Dennis Cole go up to
Ricky punch him in the face, and then Ricky shoot him.
So there are people who are on the scene that
night who know that Ricky Williams was responsible for this.
And what we learned looking at the trial was that
the police actually started to get messages and voice mails
(11:54):
saying hey, Ricky Williams is the one who committed this crime,
and they don't go out and talk to him. You know,
they I think they said Davis's family like, hey, let
let Ricky know we want to talk to him, but
they didn't actually go find him, or bring him in
or try to interrogate him or even interview him. They
just kind of collected that information but still went forward
(12:15):
investigating and prosecuting Octavius. How lazy can you be that
you have multiple people coming forward, tips coming in and
they can't even be bothered to go and speak to him,
And at that very moment they should have switched course.
Octavius should have been freed, Ricky should have been arrested,
and we should never be making this podcast right now.
(12:38):
But that's, of course not what happened. Octavious. You were
charged with attempted murder and several other related defenses. All
of this must have just I mean, how how were
you able to process this as a seventeen year old kid.
You're not even a senior in high school, yet you're
just a child. I didn't process it until I was
(13:00):
asked the imprison I understand that being a jail is hard,
but being a jail innocent, though, and you know that
you are, is way harder, real hard. There's another sick
aspect of this that I have to focus on, which
is the fact that Octavius was tried as an adult
because he turned a came before the trial began. Now,
(13:22):
how does that make any freakondifference? Right, he was seventeen
when it happened. If you were so in theory, they
could this crime could have happened and he was thirteen.
They could have held him five years until trial and
then and we've seen that before too, But it's nut.
You can't both be a child and an adult at
the same time. But they managed to try him as
an adult. Anyway. Now, at trial, the victim testified that
(13:45):
you were the shooter, Octavius, but multiple other witnesses testified
under oath that you were upstairs in the apartment when
the fight and the shooting occurred, and the shooting obviously
with downstairs, and witnesses who watched the fight from the
window in the apartment testified that Key shot to victim,
not you. I didn't know that it was him that
(14:05):
shot anybody. I didn't know that. It was for sure
hard to process when I when I realized that what
people were saying that who it was. So the child
lasted five days, and the jury had a choice between
the perspective of all these other witnesses who were directly
contradicting the victim himself, who had by now convinced himself
(14:28):
that you were the person that had shot him, and
off they went to deliberate. I just sat there. And
the reason that I was cool and I was calm
is because I had I knew that I had to
keep my composure no matter what the verdict was. But
I was angry. I'm just very good at keeping it
to myself. I'm very good at hot in it. But
when they came up with that verdict, though, I felt
(14:51):
like my heart stopped, just just just the beat or two.
But you know, I got I got my my hair back.
I never thought that I would be the one to
(15:14):
be and causer ready as a fresh eighteen in there.
Uh you know, I had to take the scenery in
and had to get used to me being around a
lot of older people, a lot of killers, a lot
of rapists in all this that I'm not used to,
you know, So I had to adapt to my surroundings.
(15:35):
And it was kind of hard, you know, because of
the unexpected fights and stuff like that. Like you know,
you're seeing movies and things like that, it's not how
it is, and movies, you know, this really pop off
like nowhere. So from what I understand, not long after
your trial concluded, your brother came forward and actually confessed
to shooting Mr Cole. I believe he even made a
(15:56):
written statement where he said, and I quote. Shortly after
the party ended, an argument occurred outside the apartment complex
between my father, Ardent Terry, and Larry Johnson. They had
a few words back and forth, but once the argument
reached the back of the apartment, I was right in
front of the back door, and all of a sudden,
Larry Johnson started shooting towards me and my father's direction.
(16:18):
And shortly after, Dennis Cole ran at me and punched
me in the eye, and I pulled out my gun
and shot him out of fear for me and my
family's lives because shots were being fired at us first.
And quote, Wow, that's a pretty detailed confession. And this
all happened within a month or so of your trial,
while you were being processed into Toledo Correctional where you'd
(16:42):
spend a long stretch. So when you heard about this confession, like,
I can't even imagine, like, what was your reaction? I was,
I was, oh man, and I didn't know anything about it.
Oh man, I was, I was pissed, like I was
really I was really pissed like Peru, because if the
people would have done what this we're supposed to do,
then maybe that would have made it, all of it.
(17:03):
It's a little correctional inscision. Oh yeah, I was. I was.
I was for sure that was that was passed. I
was angry with you that all of this could have
been avoided. Did you have an attorney at that time,
and if so, I imagine you were on the phone
with with him or her in seconds, going hey, get
me out of here. This is right. I tried. I'm
not gonna say that in reply to my messages or whatnot,
(17:24):
but it took weeks for me to get something back
from them, you know, when they have all of this
in the front of them. Yeah, that sly seems like
one of these situations where the doors should just swing
open and you should come running out into the sunshine.
But of course that's not the way it works. Joanna,
how did you get involved? And this must have blown
your mind when you heard that there was this detailed
(17:45):
confession as well as all this other evidence pointing to
actual innocence. Octiv is applied to our project. I think
around two thousand and twelve, and so we had a
couple of students assigned to it and they started looking
into it, and you know right away there's red aggs
for us. So the first is that the only evidence
that implicates him is this eyewitness identification, that it's just
(18:07):
plagued with problems. And then there's no physical evidence, and
we've got these witnesses at trial who are saying Ricky
Williams did the crime. So we started investigating, and the
focus of our investigation was really too confirm some of
the things that happened at trial. To go out and
talk to Reginald Ward and Schifond to English and Jessicatian say,
(18:28):
you know, is what you testified to it trial true?
And then we wanted to consult with an eyewitness identification
expert and make sure that what we thought we were
seeing about the identification that we were correct and that
there were all these problems, right, these are all the
issues that could have and should have already been known
at the time of trial. But then there's this confession
(18:50):
from Ricky Williams. We actually went and talked to Ricky.
We sent out an investigator before we had ever seen
the affidavit that he had already signed, and so our
investigator goes to talk to Ricky, and Ricky immediately starts
talking about that night and says, hey, I committed this crime.
And so he signs an affidavit right there in front
(19:10):
of our investigator, going through everything that happened that night,
which matches up exactly with what the witnesses said, which
is that there was this fight and Dennis Cole punched
Ricky and Ricky shot him. And so once we got
that confession, yeah, of course we thought we had it
locked up. This is this is as clear evidence as
we could get that Octavius has been telling us the
(19:32):
truth this whole time. He didn't commit this crime, and
we thought that it was clear he was innocent and
that he should be released. But of course the wheels
of justice turned quickly when we're processing somebody into the system,
but when we're trying to right those wrongs, they turned
at his nail's pace. And this is a dramatic example
(19:53):
of it, because even in a case like this, where
it couldn't be more obvious and had I'm going to say,
if the police had done their jobs in the first place,
if they had just gotten interviewed Ricky. They probably would
have seen a bruise if he was punched in the eye.
Granted they couldn't have gotten maybe the gunshot residue, because
if they couldn't have found him that night, it would
have been washed away. But this would have been a
(20:16):
very simple case to solve, had people been interested in
really solving it as opposed to just putting a black
body behind bars. So it was submitted for review by
the Conviction Integrity Unit of the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office,
and they, as I understand it, conducted an extensive investigation.
So around the time that we had collected all of
(20:38):
the evidence in this case, michael'malley had come into office,
and part of his campaign had been to take this
Conviction Integrity Unit and really put some resources behind it
and make it a legitimate unit. So that's why we
submitted Octavius case. In our mind, it was like, this
is clear as day. Let's show them the evidence and
try to work together. And as you said, for two
(21:00):
and a half years they investigated this case. They talked
to all sorts of witnesses, they tested evidence, We let
them look at the defense files, they talked to Octavius,
and in fact, a prosecutor and I actually went out
and interviewed Ricky Williams together, and Ricky confessed on tape
to a prosecutor. And after wrapping up what they say,
(21:20):
we're several years of investigative work on the story behind
octavius conviction. The see i use Internal Review Board cast
a majority vote in favor of what the criminal justice
system calls and our audience is very familiar with those
words exoneration and actual innocence. The see i use Independent
Review Panel concurred with it. Get this a unanimous vote.
(21:42):
They said that Octavius Williams was innocent of this crime.
There two panels, one internal, one made of community members,
as you said, voted in favor of exoneration. And so
once we heard that news, were of course elated. We
think this is that we think Octavius is coming home
help be exonerated. And then we learned that the elected prosecutor,
(22:02):
Michael O'Malley wouldn't agree to exoneration. So rather than letting
activa Is out and agreeing to move the court to
dismiss the charges, he agreed to let him out, but
not to clear the case. And so in Ohio. That's
called judicial release. So in December of two, nineteen, Octavius
gets to go home after serving about ten eleven years
(22:25):
in prison, but still has this attempted murder charge hanging
over his head. It's nuts the fact that he went
against the unanimous recommendation of his own unit that he
had so highly touted during his campaign. I can't even
begin to speculate what his motives are. There's a quote
(22:49):
where he said, what is justice in this case? I
think in this particular case, we did the best we could.
I think we did what was right end quote. What
in the world is he talking about? And what would
he possibly have been motivated by to still want to
deny justice and what is probably one of the easiest
(23:12):
exoneration cases he's ever going to see. Nonetheless, on December Octavis,
you were free to go, but you weren't declared innocent.
So this must have been as joyous as it must
have been to finally walk out into the free air.
(23:32):
Must have been bitter sweet. No, yeah, it was. It
was to know that I was at home. It was
more sweet than bitter, though, you know, because I was
actually outside of that place. Again. You know what I'm saying,
and then as I said it realized I still have
the same thing had on my head. So not that
messages with my future job wise, I can't get a
(23:53):
good job with the top one Fetterly, you have to
really put your neck out there. I hope that it
don't get cut off a note for you to make
his meet. The fact that they made you wear an
(24:16):
ankle monitor and I have a thirty day curfew and
two years on probation is really rubbing salt in the wound.
And I think it's insulting not just to you, but
to the public um and to the members of the
board who you know, who carefully considered this case, to
the people who worked two and a half years to
investigate this case. It's yeah, it's an it's all to
(24:39):
all of those people and to everyone who cares about
justice that they would double down, so to speak, on
this wrongful conviction. And one other thing that's happened recently,
this just occurred in November of last year, is that
all of the community members of the Conviction Integrity Unit resigned.
And they resigned because for the past couple of years
(25:01):
they hadn't been given any cases and because they had
met with the prosecutor and talked about what they wanted
their role to be, and they believed in the mission
of the Conviction Directory Unit and wanted to be able
to use that unit to achieve justice for people and
didn't feel that they were being given the opportunity to
do that. And and so they resigned. And there's no
(25:22):
longer any community members of the unit at this point. Wow,
that's powerful statement. I can send you their resignation letter
which has you know, all the reasons why they resigned. Yeah,
everyone be on the lookout for that on our Instagram.
I mean, how in the world could the community members
of the Cuyahoga County ce IU not be given any
(25:43):
cases at all to review for years, just not even
given them at all to even review. From what we
know about that town, there should be somewhere between a
steady flow and an avalanche of cases, because it's about
as corrupt as it gets. So we for a full
exoneration in octavious case. And maybe this episode will serve
(26:04):
to shine some light on the Cuyahoga CiU and the
wishes of those community members. We'd hate to think that
the CiU over there is just a bunch of window dressing,
something to be talked about around election time. Let's go
ahead and hold Michael Maalley accountable. And speaking of accountability,
I'm guessing that the decision to leave this conviction hanging
over Octavius head means that they never went after Ricky.
(26:27):
Is that accurate? That's right? So Ricky has never been
charged with this offense. He's incarcerated for another offense, so
shooting that occurred about a year after the events that
gave rise to this case. But this is a person
who's confessed over and over that he shot an individual
on October thirty one, two thousand ten, and he's never
been charged with that crime. I can't even begin to
(26:50):
imagine what the hell anybody's thinking. I mean, if they
were prosecuting Ricky, they certainly would use these confessions as
proof to get their conviction. I mean, it's the most
compelling evidence that he committed this crime. But when we're
talking about using it to exonerate Octavious, it's not good enough.
(27:10):
Of course, It's an infamous double standard that we see
over and over again all through our criminal legal system.
So where are we at in that fight? He's free,
But that doesn't mean you guys are just gonna give
up on his full exoneration. After Octavius was released, we
still went ahead and filed emotion seeking a new trial,
And the basis of that was the fact that Ricky
(27:32):
has confessed all of these times and the report of
an Eyewinness identification expert really talking about the problems with
Dennis Cole's identification. So we filed that at the beginning
of Then the pandemic hits, so things really slowed down
in the courts for quite a long time, and eventually
last May we had hearing on the motion, and so
right now we're waiting on a decision on that's been
(27:54):
pending for about seven months. But if that's granted, the
impact of that will be that octavius conviction will be vacated.
And at that point, if if we do achieve that,
we hope that Michaelmalley will dismiss the charges and that
help be exonerated. Well, let's hope that we don't see
a judge willing to ignore this clear case of innocence,
(28:15):
as Mr O'Malley seems so comfortable in doing before him. Now,
in the meantime, with this conviction still hanging over your head.
I know it's been tough looking for work. You don't
have a go fund me or anything like that, but
I'm sure there are members of our audience would like
to help in your job search. I mean, I hope. So,
if there's somebody in the area that's got something, what
(28:37):
kind of work are you looking for. I'm been looking
for demolition. I'm looking for factory jobs. You know, I've
just got my tullowder license. You know. Also, that's basically
what I'm looking for. You still live in the Cleveland area, Yeah,
all right, So construction and factory type work in the
Cleveland area will have ways that our audience can reach
out to you just by simply going to the link
(28:57):
in our bio. So if you're somebody who's got an idea,
don't stop listening right now, put it on pause, and
go right to the link in the bio and and
reach out. And also, if anyone with a law degree
or some clout in the Cleveland area who wants to
offer their help in bringing about Octavius is full exoneration,
please do reach out as well. And with that we
come to my favorite part of the show, of course,
(29:19):
it's called closing arguments, and it works like this. I'm
gonna turn my microphone off, leave my headphones on, of course,
kick back in my chair, and close my eyes and
just listen to any other thoughts you want to share
with me and our amazing audience. Joanna, let's start with you,
and then of course we'll have Octavio's close out the show.
(29:40):
Thank you for having us today and for sharing this story.
I think Octavius's case is a really sad example of
how hard it can be for the wrongfully convicted to
obtain relief and to get justice. As we talked about today,
his case is really straightforward. We know who did it.
We've got multiple confessions from Key, we've got the conviction
(30:01):
Integrity Unit saying he should be exonerated, and still here
he sits with this hanging over his head. It's sad,
it's discouraging. It's the role of a prosecutor to seek justice,
not to maintain convictions, and that's not what happened here.
But we're thankful for the opportunity to shina light on
octivius case, and we're still fighting. You know. We filed
a motion for new trial after he got out, and
(30:23):
that's still pending. We're waiting for a decision on that,
so that hopefully in the in the coming months and years,
Octavius can move forward with his life and nothing will
ever make him home, nothing will ever give him those
ten years back or change what happened to him. But
while he's home, he hasn't gotten the true justice he deserves,
and our hope is that one day we can't accomplish
(30:43):
that for him. Yeah, man, how can you say that
you will free someone if you still have something hanging
over someone's head. How was that necessarily free? It's not free.
Send me Labory. You took me out of one hail
whole to make me feel that I'm free, But at
the same time, I'm not. A lot of it still
(31:05):
hurts to this day. Sometimes I don't speak about it,
you know what I'm saying, because I'm a type of person.
You know how a man is to keep it to
themselves and try to deal with it theirself. That's just me.
Sometimes I have a hard time. Sometimes I don't mental
state wise. You know, some people, I might look normal
all this and on the outside, but you know, it's
a lot going on in my in my mind because
(31:27):
I can't get out there. It's and everywhere I turned
I could hear and see something that reminds me of it.
The other day, I went to the mall with my
girl and we went there and I started getting anxious
because it was a lot of people in there, and
my hands started sweating. I started. I didn't know that
they still had that type of effect on me. This
was years later. It's not easy for the ones that
(31:48):
I've been there and constrated for a long time to
just adapt to what's going on. I'm still adapting. Um,
It's it's hard. I know that for sure. Sometimes you
have your mom is where you're you're happy, you're things
feel easy or would not just set the But a
lot of times it's just you don't know really what's
going on. You're just You're just in the world, just
the piece on the chessboard, wait for your move. Thank
(32:18):
you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank
our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburne, and Kevin Ortis.
With research by Lila Robinson. The music in this production
was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Be sure to follow us on Instagram. At Wrongful Conviction,
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at
(32:39):
wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On
all three platforms, you can also follow me on both
TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason flom ronvul Conviction is
a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with
Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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