June 29, 2023 • 42 mins
On March 24, 1990, Felix “Carlos” Bastarrica was shot and killed on the street in San Francisco, CA. Following the shooting, Candido “Peter” Diaz, started rumors that one of Felix’s friends, Joaquin Ciria, was responsible. Relying on the rumors, police immediately targeted Joaquin and coerced 18-year-old George Varela – the man who drove the actual shooter to the crime – to falsely implicate Joaquin. Based primarily on this, and despite the complete lack of physical evidence linking him to the crime, Joaquin was convicted of murder and sentenced to 31 years to life in prison. Earlonne Woods talks to Joaquin Ciria and Paige Kaneb, Joaquin's attorney.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the night of March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety, Felix
Costo Rico was walking down an alley in San Francisco's
Mission District. Witnesses saw a man get out of a
white money Carlo and confront Felix, and the two started arguing. Suddenly,
a shot rang out and Felix fell to the ground dead.
The shooter jumped back into the car and sped away
(00:22):
with another man at the wheel. By the next morning,
rumors were flying around the streets that the shooter was
a lifelong friend of Felix's, Joaquin Syria. They had grown
up together in Cuba. Word was that the two were
in a dispute over money. Joaquin had been out earlier
that evening with a friend who drove a white money Carlo,
but he claimed to be home with his wife and
(00:43):
baby son for the night by the time the crime
was committed. After viewing several lineups that included Joaquin's picture,
two eyewitnesses id'd him as the man they'd seen. One
witness claimed that she was eighty percent certain and that
was close enough for the jury. But this is wrongful conviction.
(01:16):
Welcome back to romeful conviction. I'm Mariline Woods, co creator
and co host of the Ear Hustle podcast, guest hosting
for Jason Flummerday, and I gotta tell you I served
over twenty seven years in prison, and I used to
always think about the people who were in here that
were actually innocent, you know, dealing with the day to
day grinding rigor of prison life. And that brings us
(01:38):
to our guest today, Joaquin Sarah, Joaquin, welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Thank you, thank you, cool cool.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And here to help tell Joaquin's story is Paige Knap.
She's the supervising attorney at the Northern California Innocent Project. Paige,
thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, I am super excited to meet you, Arline, and
super happy to be with you this morning.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Joaquin, can you tell me, like, since you're from Cuba,
what was your life like growing up.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Growing now in Quwa. It was beautiful?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
It was beautiful, you know for me to be a
child growing now in my country.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
You know, so rein them my family frame.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
And kill what you do a lot of teams you
know that you're not able to do in this country.
You know, I remember you know that in kill what
we to play? You know, in the three to one
o'cloud two okline the morning, and it was no danger.
Everybody know everybody, you know, because it's an island. I
had a royal beautiful Shaoho.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Got you, got you, got you. So when you were
a youngster, the US and Cuba was beefing. You know,
they have a pretty fraud history. The Missile Crisis, the
Commonist Revolt and bargoes not really a free flowing dialogue.
So I'm just curious, like, what were your impressions of
the United States back?
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Well, let me let me tell you this, man, everybody
c what the majority we grow out believing everything that
we're watching the TV about the United States. We really
believe that Superman really exists. Anything that you go out
from United we really believe that. Brother, you know, you
know in we watch so brainwatched, you know that when
(03:24):
we're watching movie A Superman won the Woman.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
We really believe.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
That these type of people exist in the United States.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
You know, unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So this see how I grow out.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
And and and and Joaquin, you knew the victim in
this case, Phyllis bastar Rica. When you were a kid
back in Cuba.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
You know, a Phyllis we all call hi calitles. He
was close to my neighborhood, so mini mini minie time.
We who to skate from the school to go swimming
in the ocean, you know, go go ib some mango
sugar cane. Everybody liked to be around Phillis. You know,
if you go into a party, you want him to
(04:09):
be there. He was only laughing all the time, making
a lot of joke. Definitely, he was a good friend, right.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
And I'm just curious. Did you come from like a
political family over in Cuba.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
My father he was a revolutionary, you know, he was
a Commonist. He fight with the Gostro you see, with
the cast got the power way. My father was a
part of that. Yeah, the majority of my family they
really believed, you know, in the Commonies. And it was
probably in the house, you know, because we all got
(04:46):
different views. Since my ely age, I got really really
big trouble to fit in the Commonist party. I got
trouble with that. So you know, at the age of eighteen,
I was called to be in the army. I was
in high school at that time, but they don't care.
That was a man that told it called. You know,
a lot of young people escape because we don't want
(05:09):
to do that, you know, to go fight to some
other country, like a lot of joints in Cuba, they
were saying to Angola to fight a lot of all
these young people got killed, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
So me and might say, oh, I don't want to
do that.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
So when I was called to be in the army,
I remember that I was there maybe for about sismon
and I escape. A lot of johns they do that.
After I escape, I go to my family house and
I spend some time with my family. Into my father
come and told me, and he said, you know what,
(05:47):
walking I don't want no trouble with the government.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
You have to give it, you say, do the right thing,
you know.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
And and I respect my family, you know, I love
my father so more that this is how I end. Then,
you know, in prison, you know in Cuba, it's not
like right here, you know, right here out waiting something
hoppy to your yoka crying right in two or three
days they take.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You to court your due process.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Yeah, in gil White diffity in Gilbai, they directed you, Yeah,
you can be at THEO for one through three four. Yeah,
I do never go to court. Yeah, they see how
it is in Kiwa Damn.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So in May of nineteen eighty, after spending some time
in prison, you fled Cuba as a part of the
Mario boat left, which from my understanding was a mass
migration of around one hundred and twenty five thousand Cubans
that was sanctioned by both Jimmy Carter and Fidale Castro.
(06:45):
You were still a teenager at that time, right, yeah,
And I want to ask you what do you remember
about the boat ride from Cuba to Florida because I
used to always see it on the news, you know,
individuals on floats and stuff like that coming from Cuba.
What what do you remember about that boat ride?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Well, Frosseto, to be honest with you, bro, I see
a lot of ball when I was in the ocean,
you know, and we're talking about a ball that you
might can pull twenty or thirty people in that ball.
So what the Cuba government was doing need instead or
pull twenty or toty people?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
They who to put too home? Three people in the bowl.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
So imagining and let me tell you, Mane, I see
with my own eyes how a lot of boat this appeal,
you know, in the ocean one minute that was next
to us, and when I look, it's not a te anomal,
it is like it's gone. So it was really, really,
(07:45):
really it was really ugly, you know, right.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So fortunately for you you got here safely and you
landed in Key West, Florida. Can you tell me what
your feelings were when you first read the United States?
Speaker 4 (08:01):
At that moment, I feel, you know, I watched Hoppy. Yeah, yes,
I wa Hoppy completely. You know that I fleck. I
watched Hoppy.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
You know that.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
I mean you not a state that I don't have
to live it a field no more, I don't have
to water, you know about that?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I going and they killed Bid they govin main't on
Sonky like that. I know. I wasched in the most
power with fo komtri in the war.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So at that moment, anything that they told me will
believe it.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So over the next few years, you kind of skipped
around to a few different cities, and you finally ended
up in San Francisco living with a woman named Nellie Hernandez.
Nelly was a little older than you, and she had
six kids. And back then you were hanging out with
a couple of your partners from Cuba. Your childhood friend
Felix Costa Rica who had also made it to the US.
(08:54):
And a guy named Robert Socorro. And there was another
cat from Cuba that was a hustling name in Candido
ds What did you know about him?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
You know, Candido Dias, What I know about him? You
know that he's a cute one.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
You know, he was living in San Francisco in the
Star Hotel, you know, in nineteen ninety. And I never think,
you know, he had any typeo or bad feeling about me,
a fat that I know. You know, we're talking sometimes
and you know when you got the feeling that you
(09:30):
don't click with the person, you know, that's the way
I feel, that's the way he feel. But we never
let it, you know, pass to the level or having
any type of problem with him.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, And when you was in San Francisco and me
asked us, what was the San Francisco Police Department like?
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So in nineteen ninety in San Francisco Police Department, it
was really really really I could root department. I already
you know, listening in the three what they were doing,
how they brand drag on people car you know, and
and all that type of stuff. You know, of course,
(10:18):
not everybody, not every police is doing you know some
really Torigan, they really got some a lot of bad apple,
you know in the San Francis Complete department, h my
(10:52):
twenty four, nineteen ninety. You know, my personal life at
that time it was changing, you know for the betro
You know, I my baby's mama. You know, Johanna pays
about almost about a jayago before my son was born.
I was a happy man, you know at that time.
I'm oh, my friend, Oh, my friend. What's happy with
me too?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
You know? Roveto socorro he.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Was happy if Phidi dy Hut coming to my house.
It was a happy time for me, right, you know
at that.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Time until, of course, your good friend Felix Basto Rico
was killed, which happened on the night of March twenty fourth,
nineteen ninety. So Paige, can you can you walk us
through what transpired that night?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, So what we know is that Felix Pasto Rico
was walking down the street with a plastic bag. We've
since learned from Roberto SoCoRo that Roberto was in hiding.
He had just killed someone and had asked Felix to
bring him some clothes and toilet trees and stuff. So
he's walking over to the bay Bridge Motel where Roberto is,
and in Clara Alley, which is sort of perpendicular to
(12:00):
the Baybridge Motel, there are people. There's a guy in
a car, Kenneth Duff, and there's a woman up in
the window, Kathleen Guovara, and they both hear this loud altercation,
this loud argument in the alleyway, and describe these two
people kind of walking back and forth interacting with each other.
There's a white Monte Carlo that the guy with the
gun gets out of and he shoots Felix Pastrica in
(12:23):
the street and jumps back in the white Monte Carlo
and drives off right.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And that even in Joaquin, you were spending time with
another friend, eighteen year old George Varilla, who was actually
the son of your former girlfriend Nellie Hernandez.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah yeah, and Joe Barrela. We who to be real
close where hetched you know around A nine?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Oh, we who to go to the video a keda
all the time we watched Aditta to play video. I'm
to be honesty, I feel, you know, even when I
watch young I feel like he was my son, right
he got to come to my house almost every two
three days.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, so can you tell us like what you and
you know George got into on the evening of March
twenty fourth, before y'all have parted ways.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I remembered that nine that wasn't home with my family.
You know, I expaid that, you know, to stay home.
I was in May and I received a phone call
from your So when I got the phone your he
started told me and he said, hey, man, what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I said, man, I'm right here. You know, I spent
some time with Johanna and with my son. Man. I
bol why we don't go to play video? So he
conveys me.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
And I go out the way here and he come
out to peep me out.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It is white Monte Carlo.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Oh, George Forriala drove a white money Carlo.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
He got a white Monte Carlo. He peeped me out.
Almost around seven o'clock, we go to that CAA to
play video. I remember that we got there almost around seven,
saving Tody with.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
What play video? Buado the Blue.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
He come out and told me and said, hey, what
can't I have to go back to my house because
my girlfriend she come out from Richmond, so to make
this toy show.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
We leave, and when you left, you didn't go straight home.
You enjoyed stopped by Gallon's Bar first, where a lot
of Cubans and Puerto Ricans ain't got at to see
if you might meet up with a friend of yours there,
But instead you ran into another guy, Roberto Hernandez, who
was not exactly a friend.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
We don't get along, you know me and he got
a fire side. After I see my friend Manolo, I
talking with Manolo for a little while. I got to
defight Joe Barrella take me home. I got to my
house around a twenty five h eight toty Navid, I leave.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
My how a game and did you know what you
was wearing at night?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yeah, that's something that I never go and forget that, Navid,
because at that time, I don't know if you remain
me that a lot of young people Epecio black people
like me, we who to with that type post Jackie letter.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
JACKI you know that it was all colorful letter.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Jaki Song said, command the squad, So Wan sai how
roly so say Cobra got I don't think that I
think that I even can sleep with that Jackey.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
D C how to much I know, Michael Mama squad.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Yeah, and they see how I get out out of
my house when yo body La piped me out.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, cool. So George dropped you off at around a
thirty and you spent the rest of the evening at
home with Johanna and your son. But by the next
day there was already a rumor going around that it
was you that killed Costa Rica, as you found out
from your friend Manolo when you went to Gallon's bar
the next day.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Manolo and some other people watch outside the bottom. When
Manolo see me, Manolo approaching me, you know how, he said, hey, Waki,
how you doing? My friend you know ween Brace and
he said, man why you don't leave the CD? And
I look at here. I say, leady, CD, what are
you talking about?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Manolo?
Speaker 4 (16:03):
He said, Maine Alito, last night you know, I'm the
rue noise that you beat it.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And I say, hey, A stop playing like tom mate.
Do you saw what are you talking about? He said yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
So when he told me now the Frost team that
is coming, you know, in my mind, I just say, oh, man,
something Roman and I just started to be afraid.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And it came out later that Condido DZ was the
likely instigator of that rumor, but however it got started.
The two homicide detectives work in the case, Arc Gearns
and James Crowley ran with.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
That rumor, so Joaquin's name comes up really fast in
the investigation, and from as soon as they get his name,
he is the only person they ever look into. And
so essentially what you can see in the police reports
is the two homicide inspectors who have Joaquin as their
one and only suspects, start showing his picture to the
(16:55):
two eyewitnesses, neither of whom identify him. They ask her, well,
who looks most like the shooter, and she says, well,
she points to Joaquin's photo and says he looks most
like the shooter, but she doesn't say it's him, and
the guy in the car says he doesn't pick anybody out,
but they still keep their focus entirely on Joaquin.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
But Joaquin didn't even match the descriptions that the two
witnesses gave right.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
No.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, so the police did get descriptions from the eyewitnesses
of the shooter and the things they describe because they
both sort of say they see him from a distance,
kind of the silhouette. They say he's got an afro,
and that he's wearing this long trench coat. And we
know from independent witnesses, including the guy Joaquin got in
a fight with, who you know, didn't like him and
had no reason to lie for him, that Joaquin's hair
(17:40):
is in a long Jerry curl, not in an afro,
and he's wearing this short, short leather jacket and not
a long trench coat. And in fact, no one had
ever seen Joaquin ever in a trench coat, and he
didn't even own a trench coat.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
You know, thank God that I just stop at the
Gottam Bottle Becaul. You'll see everybody see me. How I
want the race? Everybody, the people they said, they DeFi.
They've remained me how I watched the race. They've remained
me that I got a Jedi krail.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I mean, even when they search the house, they're never
able to find anything to connect Joaquin. And and so
you know, it doesn't match. He doesn't match the descriptions,
and he's got an alibi. His his girlfriend and their
roommate tell the police from the very beginning that he's
home that night by eight thirty.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Nevertheless, Garan's and Crowley stay focused on Joaquin as a suspect.
And so at that point, Joaquin, you went to the
police station on your own, correct.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I cannot take a no moment. I cannot take a
no more. You watch some more rumo that I said, Man,
I have to go talk to with the homo side.
I have to go talk to with the homo side. Bolutality.
I go with my loyo to speak to the homo side.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
About two and a half weeks after the shooting, and
he tells them that he was with George Ferrella in
the white Monte Carlo, and he tells them how to
find George, says, I, you know, I dated it his mother,
Nellie Hernandez. They live at this address. Here's what he
looks like. Here's the car he drives, I mean, basically
everything they need and they pull in George Verilla and
(19:11):
George is initially saying, well, I can tell you what
happened up until the time Joaquin and I split up,
and then he says he went home after and he says, well,
I probably I probably went somewhere after though, and they
never ask him where did you go? Instead, what they say,
is we know Joaquin was the shooter. You're going to
go down for this murder. He's you know, George's eighteen.
They tell him, you're going to go down for this
murder unless you stop lying and covering up for Joaquin,
(19:34):
and they essentially tell him like, he's just got to
say that Joaquin is the guy in the car with
him at the time of the shooting, and that Joaquin
is the shooter. And George Verilla literally says, Okay, whatever
you said, and then he repeats the story that they
have now fed to him, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So I guess subsequently later you end up getting arrested Joaquin, Yes,
and you end up getting arrested based on a confession
from George.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Or at least from George saying exactly what the police
told them to say.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Okay, so he was he fabricated her from the offices
Garin's and Crowley.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, I mean, they tell him he's got to say
it's Joaquin. That's like, then they keep going back to
the eyewitnesses. Basically, the witnesses make positive IDAs only after
they're repeatedly shown Joaquin, and for one of them, she
doesn't even make a first positive Ida until the preliminary
hearing when he's literally sitting in a red jumpsuit at
the defense table, and then she's like, oh, I'm sure
that's the guy. And she says it's based on his
(20:32):
attitude that she can see is how she's identifying. I mean,
there's a lot of racism all through this trial, Like
she even says, I think they were speaking African.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So on April nineteen, nineteen ninety, Joaquin, you were arrested
in charged with first degree murder. Bro what was going
through your head? I mean, did you even think this
shit was real?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Do you know what?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Let me tell you, these whoop not even going like
washing my you. I really believe that everything worth real.
I was thinking that I was in a can't the
camera show looking all these people coming and pointed me
with a finger, Yeah, that the main And in my
mind I said main, I know, I know the camera
(21:17):
is going come out and they go and say a
smile you in camera, you know, because that was a
famite show at the time. I go to watch that
show tomorrow, you know, and I and I say, you
know what, I mean, what happened to me? I cannot
believe it? You you cannot being innocying, believe that what
(21:40):
is happening to you is real. You you cannot you know,
and that's what happened to me. And you know, to
respond to your question, no, you know, I steel, don't
get it, I steal. You don't even get it. Main
you're being charged with flost the good morning I just
(22:01):
deal them getting So.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
George had actually kind of disappeared, George Urella, he'd not
shown up for the prelim, he was missing leading up
to the trial. I honestly believe Jaquin's attorney just didn't
think he was even going to have to deal with George.
It was just going to be this eyewitness I D case.
And so he did I think a fairly good job,
you know, showing all these discrepancies between the descriptions and
(22:25):
what Joaquin actually looked like, their own inconsistent statements and
kind of the evolution of their IDs. He did a
nice job of showing that George Ofrella's timeline didn't make
any sense, that there was this like big gap in
between the way he says what they did that night
and how he drove Joaquin home. His timelines that lines
up with Joaquines that Joaquin is home long before the
(22:47):
murder happens. But what he missed, what he didn't manage
to do, And one of the things I really respect
about him is that he actually gave us a declaration
saying he was ineffective because he didn't present to the jury.
The jury never heard that Joaquin's name came from the
homicide inspectors first, and that they told Verrella essentially that
he had to identify Joaquin, So the jury just never
(23:09):
heard that. What they heard instead was this guy who
knows Joaquin, who'd grown up with him around is saying
he's the guy who was with me in my car
and who got out and shot him. And then he
hears that corroborated by these two independent eyewitnesses, and Joaquin's
attorney presented witnesses who describe what Joaquin looked like that night,
(23:29):
how he had Jerry Curl in the short jacket, But
he never presented the alibi witnesses. So they also didn't
hear that Joaquin was at home with his one month
old son and that they had a good reason to
remember that night because they were going to celebrate the
one month anniversary of his birth the next day. So
you know, they knew that George Verrella was incentivized, they
knew he got immunity, they knew he was in and
(23:51):
out of trouble. So it wasn't a super strong case
even with what they heard. But what they never heard
was anything else about someone else actually did it, or
that Joaquin had this really credible alibi, and so they
end up convicting him.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
It don't matter if I'm trying to explain to you
a thousand times, I cannot even feeling close to really
really tell you how I feel when they come out
with the guilty verity.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
You know, everything.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Inside me stopped, everything, I stop reading, my heart stop.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It is a feeling.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
That you can never You can never explain how it
is that they find.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
You guilty espece you.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Find me guilty or the moory of my bed frameming
that's all I really killed me? How can I be
doing time for the money or my bes friend made
somebody that I love even to today, I ended almost
(25:32):
opened Pennican Bey prism in what the more tough prisum
in the California system at the time. I see people
when they told these people you go into Pennica Bay,
I see grown Maine crumbled in the floor and crying
when I was in some queen, you know. And I
ask the people and I say, hey, Main, why he crying?
(25:55):
I said, man, you don't know where we're going. He said,
We're going to Pennican be And I said, what a body?
I said, Cuba. Let me tell you man, it is
no joke. He said, may wait until you get there.
You know it was true. You know when I got
to tell you, Maine, every time that you heal alarm
(26:17):
sound in that prison, it was not a first alarm.
It was somebody got killed, you know. And I said, man,
how did I ain't in there?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Boo?
Speaker 4 (26:32):
My mind is still. Do not stopping play some trick
on me? I remember, you know. I who to wag
into my said go to sleep. And I had to
cover my head with the blanket, real tie, and I
had to close my eyes royal tie. And I hold
to say, Main, when I open my eyes, now, when
(26:53):
I open my eyes, now, I know this.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Is a three.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
This is a three. I go and being home, we
might sign with my babies. Mama, this is I three. Man,
this is a three. I went, I got Cobby might sell.
I need to say, you know, I say, wow, man,
this is real.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Mmm.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So I gotta ask you, man, like, how did you
hold on to hope so much for all those years?
Because I always always say, you know, for a person
that committed crime, it's hard, you know, to deal with
the time, But for an innocent person sitting there, it's
a whole different level because you're going through everything, whether
it's the violence in the prison, the abuse from the cops,
(27:41):
whatever it is, the CEOs, whatever it is. So how
did you hold on the hope that you would get out?
Speaker 4 (27:48):
You know why? In the beginning I watched completely ain't good.
We got everything that I got in my mayis how
did I go and prove that I don't do what
I can do?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
You know?
Speaker 4 (28:03):
And the good thing about it is and thank God,
you know, to all the emails, you know, in every
priest that I be, Brother, in every priest that I be,
every email, believe on me. They can see through into
my heart. They can see through into the type of
(28:25):
man that I was. You know, this call it homies, homeboy.
They're asking me working and why are you here for?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Man?
Speaker 4 (28:36):
And I say, man, brother, they give me toty one
year to life or a model that I not come
make I'm taking God. They say, hey, man, you know
what I mean. I believe you walking. I believe you,
and I say thank you man. And I received so
much respect. I receive the respect that the systems don't
(28:57):
give it to me. I got an ef all these
email the respect that deceased deny to me. I got
in it from all these people.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
And page can you can you walk us through the
post conviction litigation? I mean didn't Evidently nothing worked for him.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, I mean you got to give Joaquin credit, like
he litigated his case to the nines, Like he got
himself into federal court. I know he had helped from
jail house lawyers. I have a lot of respect for
jailhouth lawyers. And I mean, unfortunately the courts just refused
to look at it and refuse to listen. But what
eventually happened was Joaquin had earned the respect not only
(29:39):
of other incarcerated folks, but also some of the free staff.
And we were contacted by this guy, Ray Leonardini, who
ran a meditation circle that Joaquin was a part of,
and also Ellen Egger's pro bono attorney who have partnered
with in a few cases. Was helping another guy with
parole who told her, you have to meet Joaquin, like
he's actually innocent and you need to help them. And
(30:02):
so Ellen went and met Joaquin. He told her everything.
She like everybody, found him very compelling and believable, and
so she The first thing asked her to do was
go talk to George Verilla's sister, Denise Courcier, and Allan
did that and Denise told her, my brother told me
that Joaquin is innocent, that it was another Cuban man,
(30:24):
and that the police really wanted Joaquin, and George was
scared of them, and so he went along with what
they wanted. But what really turned the case around was
when Roberto Sacoro got out of prison. He went to
Cuba and he tracked down Joaquin's family and told them
that he personally knew that Joaquin was innocent because he
had actually seen the whole thing from his motel room.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
And listeners, remember, Roberto Cicoro was another friend of Joaquin's.
The day before all of this happened, Roberto had killed
this other guy named Ruben Alfonso, and he was hiding
out at the Bay Bridge motel waiting on Felix to
bring up some clothes when he heard Felix southside argon
with Candido Diaz.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
They had been fighting over over a gun and not
paying for the gun, and so he recognized their voices
and they start coming in and out of his view,
and you know, he hears the gunshot and he runs
out and he sees Candido get into the white Monte
Carlo and drive away, and he basically broke down and
apologized to Joaquin's family and explained that while he was
(31:25):
in he'd been a shot caller initially, and so he
felt like, you know, in addition to the normal amount
of trouble you can get in in prison for snitching,
that he, especially as someone who'd sort of enforced those rules,
would be even more in danger. And for a long
time he'd hope to be able to get his own revenge,
that at some point Candido would get locked up and
(31:46):
he would be able to avenge Felix's death, and in
some ways, fortunately that never happened, and instead he gets
out and tells the truth, and that really broke open
the case.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And Ellen also tracks a couple of people that George
Verilla had talked to and had told them Joaquin was innocent.
One was Joaquin's sister Denise, and the other was a
woman named Kadi dad Gonzalez.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
She was friends with Nelli Hernandez, George's mother, and also
knew Joaquin through Nelly and through the Cuban community. George
tells her also, so it's very similar to what he
said to Denise, that he knows Joaquin is innocent and
didn't do this. And so we had these two statements
from George Verilla to two different people saying that Joaquin
was innocent and also saying that it was another Cuban man.
(32:32):
And so Candy ro Diez is not only Cuban but
also matches the original description. He was always had his
hair in an afro, He was known to wear long
trench coats. And it turns out he'd had this, you know,
ongoing and escalating feud with Felix Pasta Rica right before
the murder, and it all started over the weapon that
may actually have been used, a forty four, which was
(32:53):
actually the weapon they said was used to kill Felix
Basta Rica. So Ellen had done most of the investigation
by the time she came to me, and it was
only the Roberto piece that came afterwards. But we really
felt like that pushed it over the top. And then
the Innocence Commission also got an eyewitness I D expert
to look at the eyewitnesses and just really explain and
(33:15):
under the social science that we now know even more.
While all of those all the reasons eyewitness identifications are unreliable,
but we're especially so in this case.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Well not just unreliable. I believe one of the witnesses,
Kathleen Gavada, had another reason to identify Joaquin.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
You know, the same warm I say from the Beginni.
Now that I hold the SHOLDI D demain, I only
atey poucing and Leo, you know, to give you difending
change and watch you see, well CHI got.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
So, Paige, after all this new information you put in
front of them, did the courts quickly agree that Joaquin
was innocent?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I mean we expected them to, especially because the DA's
office was on board, and that.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Was District Ernie chesso Bodin, who was repeatedly under fire
from the police union and adversaries. There were I think
like two recall elections, so his political foot and was
never secure and he was the one that was making
the recommendation based on the Innocence Commission findings.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
They had this separate Innocence Commission, right that was supposed
to be this independent body. It had DA's public defenders, experts,
law professors, you know, like this whole commission of different
stakeholders who all agreed Joaquin is fully innocent. And in
my experience, usually when that happens, the courts are pretty
willing to go along pretty quickly, right, But unfortunately we
had the exact opposite experience here, and I can only
(34:38):
imagine some of that was the politics going on in
San Francisco. The court essentially just the first thing they
did was ask us to do another round of briefing,
and they invited the Attorney General's office, in which you
know doesn't generally happen in superior court. But here's the
court saying, you know, District Attorney, I don't trust what
you have to say, and so Attorney General, I'm inviting
you in to tell me something different. Fortunately, the AG's
(35:02):
office also saw that this wasn't a case to oppose.
Everything pointed to Joaquin's innocence. There's no reliable evidence of
guilt anywhere. But even after you know, a second round
of briefing in the AG's office refusing to come in.
They still had us have an evident you're hearing, and
so here we are both sides arguing for the same thing.
So we're both presenting opening statements on Joaquin being innocent,
(35:24):
and then we're both doing closing arguments about how he's
entitled to relief and how we all believe he's innocent
and the judge should reverse his conviction. Luckily, by then
we'd been switched to a different judge, was a really good,
experienced judge and just saw all the problems with the case.
And then finally, on April eighteenth, the court reversed Jakin's
conviction and the district attorneys again announced he was innocent.
(35:48):
They dismissed all of the charges.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Man, I almost fail to be fluw.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Yeo to go out to free the freedom that I
want deny for almost thirty two years, and I don't
even know how to make it all the way to
the door, you know, And I keep walking.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I'm walking on imagin you know where when they open.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
The door to me and I see, you know, I
see pay ailing, my son and my baby's mama, I
see everybody. Man, it was too much for me. I say,
my god, it was a day unbelievable. This type of feeling.
You have to really go through that for you can
(36:37):
really have the thing what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
It is unbelievable. It is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. And of course we're
all super grateful to the Northern California Innocent Project and
the fantastic work that they do because it's through them
that people like Joaquin can you know, have a chance
to get back to this free world. So if anyone
want to show the Northern California Innocent Projects some love,
we'll have the link in the bios so you can
(37:06):
do that. So we've got to the point of the
show where we do this thing called closing arguments. And
first I want to thank y'all for being here, and
I also want to ask y'all to share your final
thoughts for the listeners, you know, anything that you want
to say, any takeaway you may have, and page I
(37:27):
want to first start with you and then we can
close with Joaquin.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
So the thing that I think we haven't done a
great job of yet, especially in San Francisco, is like
we know, there was this era in which they were
treating especially young black men terribly, and saw themselves as
like cleaning up the streets by somehow getting people involved
in homicides and throwing them away for life. And there
are six people who've been exonerated out of San Francisco.
(37:53):
All of them are black men, and five of them
are from this nineteen ninety era. They all have incredible story.
You should look into all of them. Joaquin, Maurice Caldwell,
Antoine Goff, John Tennyson, and Karen mad Conley, who I
know you've already interviewed. But what we haven't done is
look back at what else went wrong there. So it
shouldn't be luck of the draw, right whose cases get
(38:14):
looked at and who gets picked up? And so Headjoaquin
not you know, convinced other incarcerated folks that he was
innocent and then one of them meeting Ellen like you know,
this luck of the draw thing. It's not okay for
justice to be that arbitrary, what little justice exists in
our system. And so my hope and listeners I'd love
(38:35):
for you to encourage this is that we actually look back.
There's four homicide investigators who were involved in all of
these cases. We could look at their cases. We could
look at all cases from this era. You know, cdcr's
budget for this year is over fourteen billion dollars. Just
imagine what would happen if we just spent a tiny
fraction of that on actually looking for where things went wrong,
(38:57):
starting with the places we already know things went Everybody
should have a chance to prove themselves no's as bad
as the worst thing they've ever done. And you know,
these guys who have done all this time like you
are Land, like Yuki, and who have come out and
shown like I mean, one of the things I just
love also about what you've been doing is just highlighting
the humanity of people right whether they're incarcerated or not.
(39:19):
We are all have this huge amount to offer and give,
and I just would love for us to stop leaving
so many people behind and really start focusing on using
our resources in better ways.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
What I want to say, you know, to all be listening.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I want to lay everybody know that what happened to
me is continually happening right now, and the only way
it can be at top we all have to come
out together and do something about it. I always say,
if you were capable to go to the moon. We
(39:57):
have to be capable to prevent that anal same pace
go to prision. Simple like that, How can you go
to the moon, but you cannot premain one person to
go to prison.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
It domain saying.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
I know right now, at this moment, in some part
of the country in a court house, somebody's going to
prison right now, being innocing.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
It is no doubt in my mind.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
And he going through for the same thing that I
go through when I was in that position. I know
we can stop it. I know we can do so
anything about it because I know Number one is we
need to make the dis ratony accountable for any wrong doing.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
That they do.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
And I said the every dish rat No, we got
some really good distro rattorney that they do their job,
They go by the law and they honest the people,
how walking people. But we got some other one that
they don't care, they don't get They want to wing
our cakes our this space on the ego same people.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
We have to stop.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
Doc.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'm your guest host
Erline Woods. I like to thank executive producers Jason Flumm
and Kevin Waters for inviting me to be here good
Looking Special thanks to our wonderful production team Connor Hall,
Annie Chelsea, Lila Robinson and Jeff Clyburn. The music in
this production comes from three Times Oscar Numbernee Jay Rath.
(41:38):
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at
Rome Conviction, as well as Lava for Good. On all
three platforms. You can find me online at Erline Woods,
and you can find my podcast ear Hustle wherever you
listen to podcasts. Wrongful Conviction is a product of Blober
(42:00):
for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
On the night of March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety, Felix
Costo Rico was walking down an alley in San Francisco's
Mission District. Witnesses saw a man get out of a
white money Carlo and confront Felix, and the two started arguing. Suddenly,
a shot rang out and Felix fell to the ground dead.
The shooter jumped back into the car and sped away
(00:22):
with another man at the wheel. By the next morning,
rumors were flying around the streets that the shooter was
a lifelong friend of Felix's, Joaquin Syria. They had grown
up together in Cuba. Word was that the two were
in a dispute over money. Joaquin had been out earlier
that evening with a friend who drove a white money Carlo,
but he claimed to be home with his wife and
(00:43):
baby son for the night by the time the crime
was committed. After viewing several lineups that included Joaquin's picture,
two eyewitnesses id'd him as the man they'd seen. One
witness claimed that she was eighty percent certain and that
was close enough for the jury. But this is wrongful conviction.
(01:16):
Welcome back to romeful conviction. I'm Mariline Woods, co creator
and co host of the Ear Hustle podcast, guest hosting
for Jason Flummerday, and I gotta tell you I served
over twenty seven years in prison, and I used to
always think about the people who were in here that
were actually innocent, you know, dealing with the day to
day grinding rigor of prison life. And that brings us
(01:38):
to our guest today, Joaquin Sarah, Joaquin, welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Thank you, thank you, cool cool.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And here to help tell Joaquin's story is Paige Knap.
She's the supervising attorney at the Northern California Innocent Project. Paige,
thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, I am super excited to meet you, Arline, and
super happy to be with you this morning.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Joaquin, can you tell me, like, since you're from Cuba,
what was your life like growing up.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Growing now in Quwa. It was beautiful?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
It was beautiful, you know for me to be a
child growing now in my country.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
You know, so rein them my family frame.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
And kill what you do a lot of teams you
know that you're not able to do in this country.
You know, I remember you know that in kill what
we to play? You know, in the three to one
o'cloud two okline the morning, and it was no danger.
Everybody know everybody, you know, because it's an island. I
had a royal beautiful Shaoho.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Got you, got you, got you. So when you were
a youngster, the US and Cuba was beefing. You know,
they have a pretty fraud history. The Missile Crisis, the
Commonist Revolt and bargoes not really a free flowing dialogue.
So I'm just curious, like, what were your impressions of
the United States back?
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Well, let me let me tell you this, man, everybody
c what the majority we grow out believing everything that
we're watching the TV about the United States. We really
believe that Superman really exists. Anything that you go out
from United we really believe that. Brother, you know, you
know in we watch so brainwatched, you know that when
(03:24):
we're watching movie A Superman won the Woman.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
We really believe.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
That these type of people exist in the United States.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
You know, unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So this see how I grow out.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
And and and and Joaquin, you knew the victim in
this case, Phyllis bastar Rica. When you were a kid
back in Cuba.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
You know, a Phyllis we all call hi calitles. He
was close to my neighborhood, so mini mini minie time.
We who to skate from the school to go swimming
in the ocean, you know, go go ib some mango
sugar cane. Everybody liked to be around Phillis. You know,
if you go into a party, you want him to
(04:09):
be there. He was only laughing all the time, making
a lot of joke. Definitely, he was a good friend, right.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
And I'm just curious. Did you come from like a
political family over in Cuba.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
My father he was a revolutionary, you know, he was
a Commonist. He fight with the Gostro you see, with
the cast got the power way. My father was a
part of that. Yeah, the majority of my family they
really believed, you know, in the Commonies. And it was
probably in the house, you know, because we all got
(04:46):
different views. Since my ely age, I got really really
big trouble to fit in the Commonist party. I got
trouble with that. So you know, at the age of eighteen,
I was called to be in the army. I was
in high school at that time, but they don't care.
That was a man that told it called. You know,
a lot of young people escape because we don't want
(05:09):
to do that, you know, to go fight to some
other country, like a lot of joints in Cuba, they
were saying to Angola to fight a lot of all
these young people got killed, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
So me and might say, oh, I don't want to
do that.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
So when I was called to be in the army,
I remember that I was there maybe for about sismon
and I escape. A lot of johns they do that.
After I escape, I go to my family house and
I spend some time with my family. Into my father
come and told me, and he said, you know what,
(05:47):
walking I don't want no trouble with the government.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
You have to give it, you say, do the right thing,
you know.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
And and I respect my family, you know, I love
my father so more that this is how I end. Then,
you know, in prison, you know in Cuba, it's not
like right here, you know, right here out waiting something
hoppy to your yoka crying right in two or three
days they take.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You to court your due process.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Yeah, in gil White diffity in Gilbai, they directed you, Yeah,
you can be at THEO for one through three four. Yeah,
I do never go to court. Yeah, they see how
it is in Kiwa Damn.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So in May of nineteen eighty, after spending some time
in prison, you fled Cuba as a part of the
Mario boat left, which from my understanding was a mass
migration of around one hundred and twenty five thousand Cubans
that was sanctioned by both Jimmy Carter and Fidale Castro.
(06:45):
You were still a teenager at that time, right, yeah,
And I want to ask you what do you remember
about the boat ride from Cuba to Florida because I
used to always see it on the news, you know,
individuals on floats and stuff like that coming from Cuba.
What what do you remember about that boat ride?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Well, Frosseto, to be honest with you, bro, I see
a lot of ball when I was in the ocean,
you know, and we're talking about a ball that you
might can pull twenty or thirty people in that ball.
So what the Cuba government was doing need instead or
pull twenty or toty people?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
They who to put too home? Three people in the bowl.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
So imagining and let me tell you, Mane, I see
with my own eyes how a lot of boat this appeal,
you know, in the ocean one minute that was next
to us, and when I look, it's not a te anomal,
it is like it's gone. So it was really, really,
(07:45):
really it was really ugly, you know, right.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So fortunately for you you got here safely and you
landed in Key West, Florida. Can you tell me what
your feelings were when you first read the United States?
Speaker 4 (08:01):
At that moment, I feel, you know, I watched Hoppy. Yeah, yes,
I wa Hoppy completely. You know that I fleck. I
watched Hoppy.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
You know that.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
I mean you not a state that I don't have
to live it a field no more, I don't have
to water, you know about that?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I going and they killed Bid they govin main't on
Sonky like that. I know. I wasched in the most
power with fo komtri in the war.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So at that moment, anything that they told me will
believe it.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So over the next few years, you kind of skipped
around to a few different cities, and you finally ended
up in San Francisco living with a woman named Nellie Hernandez.
Nelly was a little older than you, and she had
six kids. And back then you were hanging out with
a couple of your partners from Cuba. Your childhood friend
Felix Costa Rica who had also made it to the US.
(08:54):
And a guy named Robert Socorro. And there was another
cat from Cuba that was a hustling name in Candido
ds What did you know about him?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
You know, Candido Dias, What I know about him? You
know that he's a cute one.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
You know, he was living in San Francisco in the
Star Hotel, you know, in nineteen ninety. And I never think,
you know, he had any typeo or bad feeling about me,
a fat that I know. You know, we're talking sometimes
and you know when you got the feeling that you
(09:30):
don't click with the person, you know, that's the way
I feel, that's the way he feel. But we never
let it, you know, pass to the level or having
any type of problem with him.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, And when you was in San Francisco and me
asked us, what was the San Francisco Police Department like?
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So in nineteen ninety in San Francisco Police Department, it
was really really really I could root department. I already
you know, listening in the three what they were doing,
how they brand drag on people car you know, and
and all that type of stuff. You know, of course,
(10:18):
not everybody, not every police is doing you know some
really Torigan, they really got some a lot of bad apple,
you know in the San Francis Complete department, h my
(10:52):
twenty four, nineteen ninety. You know, my personal life at
that time it was changing, you know for the betro
You know, I my baby's mama. You know, Johanna pays
about almost about a jayago before my son was born.
I was a happy man, you know at that time.
I'm oh, my friend, Oh, my friend. What's happy with
me too?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
You know? Roveto socorro he.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Was happy if Phidi dy Hut coming to my house.
It was a happy time for me, right, you know
at that.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Time until, of course, your good friend Felix Basto Rico
was killed, which happened on the night of March twenty fourth,
nineteen ninety. So Paige, can you can you walk us
through what transpired that night?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, So what we know is that Felix Pasto Rico
was walking down the street with a plastic bag. We've
since learned from Roberto SoCoRo that Roberto was in hiding.
He had just killed someone and had asked Felix to
bring him some clothes and toilet trees and stuff. So
he's walking over to the bay Bridge Motel where Roberto is,
and in Clara Alley, which is sort of perpendicular to
(12:00):
the Baybridge Motel, there are people. There's a guy in
a car, Kenneth Duff, and there's a woman up in
the window, Kathleen Guovara, and they both hear this loud altercation,
this loud argument in the alleyway, and describe these two
people kind of walking back and forth interacting with each other.
There's a white Monte Carlo that the guy with the
gun gets out of and he shoots Felix Pastrica in
(12:23):
the street and jumps back in the white Monte Carlo
and drives off right.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And that even in Joaquin, you were spending time with
another friend, eighteen year old George Varilla, who was actually
the son of your former girlfriend Nellie Hernandez.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah yeah, and Joe Barrela. We who to be real
close where hetched you know around A nine?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Oh, we who to go to the video a keda
all the time we watched Aditta to play video. I'm
to be honesty, I feel, you know, even when I
watch young I feel like he was my son, right
he got to come to my house almost every two
three days.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, so can you tell us like what you and
you know George got into on the evening of March
twenty fourth, before y'all have parted ways.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I remembered that nine that wasn't home with my family.
You know, I expaid that, you know, to stay home.
I was in May and I received a phone call
from your So when I got the phone your he
started told me and he said, hey, man, what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I said, man, I'm right here. You know, I spent
some time with Johanna and with my son. Man. I
bol why we don't go to play video? So he
conveys me.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
And I go out the way here and he come
out to peep me out.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It is white Monte Carlo.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Oh, George Forriala drove a white money Carlo.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
He got a white Monte Carlo. He peeped me out.
Almost around seven o'clock, we go to that CAA to
play video. I remember that we got there almost around seven,
saving Tody with.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
What play video? Buado the Blue.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
He come out and told me and said, hey, what
can't I have to go back to my house because
my girlfriend she come out from Richmond, so to make
this toy show.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
We leave, and when you left, you didn't go straight home.
You enjoyed stopped by Gallon's Bar first, where a lot
of Cubans and Puerto Ricans ain't got at to see
if you might meet up with a friend of yours there,
But instead you ran into another guy, Roberto Hernandez, who
was not exactly a friend.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
We don't get along, you know me and he got
a fire side. After I see my friend Manolo, I
talking with Manolo for a little while. I got to
defight Joe Barrella take me home. I got to my
house around a twenty five h eight toty Navid, I leave.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
My how a game and did you know what you
was wearing at night?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yeah, that's something that I never go and forget that, Navid,
because at that time, I don't know if you remain
me that a lot of young people Epecio black people
like me, we who to with that type post Jackie letter.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
JACKI you know that it was all colorful letter.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Jaki Song said, command the squad, So Wan sai how
roly so say Cobra got I don't think that I
think that I even can sleep with that Jackey.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
D C how to much I know, Michael Mama squad.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Yeah, and they see how I get out out of
my house when yo body La piped me out.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, cool. So George dropped you off at around a
thirty and you spent the rest of the evening at
home with Johanna and your son. But by the next
day there was already a rumor going around that it
was you that killed Costa Rica, as you found out
from your friend Manolo when you went to Gallon's bar
the next day.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Manolo and some other people watch outside the bottom. When
Manolo see me, Manolo approaching me, you know how, he said, hey, Waki,
how you doing? My friend you know ween Brace and
he said, man why you don't leave the CD? And
I look at here. I say, leady, CD, what are
you talking about?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Manolo?
Speaker 4 (16:03):
He said, Maine Alito, last night you know, I'm the
rue noise that you beat it.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And I say, hey, A stop playing like tom mate.
Do you saw what are you talking about? He said yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
So when he told me now the Frost team that
is coming, you know, in my mind, I just say, oh, man,
something Roman and I just started to be afraid.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And it came out later that Condido DZ was the
likely instigator of that rumor, but however it got started.
The two homicide detectives work in the case, Arc Gearns
and James Crowley ran with.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
That rumor, so Joaquin's name comes up really fast in
the investigation, and from as soon as they get his name,
he is the only person they ever look into. And
so essentially what you can see in the police reports
is the two homicide inspectors who have Joaquin as their
one and only suspects, start showing his picture to the
(16:55):
two eyewitnesses, neither of whom identify him. They ask her, well,
who looks most like the shooter, and she says, well,
she points to Joaquin's photo and says he looks most
like the shooter, but she doesn't say it's him, and
the guy in the car says he doesn't pick anybody out,
but they still keep their focus entirely on Joaquin.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
But Joaquin didn't even match the descriptions that the two
witnesses gave right.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
No.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, so the police did get descriptions from the eyewitnesses
of the shooter and the things they describe because they
both sort of say they see him from a distance,
kind of the silhouette. They say he's got an afro,
and that he's wearing this long trench coat. And we
know from independent witnesses, including the guy Joaquin got in
a fight with, who you know, didn't like him and
had no reason to lie for him, that Joaquin's hair
(17:40):
is in a long Jerry curl, not in an afro,
and he's wearing this short, short leather jacket and not
a long trench coat. And in fact, no one had
ever seen Joaquin ever in a trench coat, and he
didn't even own a trench coat.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
You know, thank God that I just stop at the
Gottam Bottle Becaul. You'll see everybody see me. How I
want the race? Everybody, the people they said, they DeFi.
They've remained me how I watched the race. They've remained
me that I got a Jedi krail.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I mean, even when they search the house, they're never
able to find anything to connect Joaquin. And and so
you know, it doesn't match. He doesn't match the descriptions,
and he's got an alibi. His his girlfriend and their
roommate tell the police from the very beginning that he's
home that night by eight thirty.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Nevertheless, Garan's and Crowley stay focused on Joaquin as a suspect.
And so at that point, Joaquin, you went to the
police station on your own, correct.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I cannot take a no moment. I cannot take a
no more. You watch some more rumo that I said, Man,
I have to go talk to with the homo side.
I have to go talk to with the homo side. Bolutality.
I go with my loyo to speak to the homo side.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
About two and a half weeks after the shooting, and
he tells them that he was with George Ferrella in
the white Monte Carlo, and he tells them how to
find George, says, I, you know, I dated it his mother,
Nellie Hernandez. They live at this address. Here's what he
looks like. Here's the car he drives, I mean, basically
everything they need and they pull in George Verilla and
(19:11):
George is initially saying, well, I can tell you what
happened up until the time Joaquin and I split up,
and then he says he went home after and he says, well,
I probably I probably went somewhere after though, and they
never ask him where did you go? Instead, what they say,
is we know Joaquin was the shooter. You're going to
go down for this murder. He's you know, George's eighteen.
They tell him, you're going to go down for this
murder unless you stop lying and covering up for Joaquin,
(19:34):
and they essentially tell him like, he's just got to
say that Joaquin is the guy in the car with
him at the time of the shooting, and that Joaquin
is the shooter. And George Verilla literally says, Okay, whatever
you said, and then he repeats the story that they
have now fed to him, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So I guess subsequently later you end up getting arrested Joaquin, Yes,
and you end up getting arrested based on a confession
from George.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Or at least from George saying exactly what the police
told them to say.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Okay, so he was he fabricated her from the offices
Garin's and Crowley.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, I mean, they tell him he's got to say
it's Joaquin. That's like, then they keep going back to
the eyewitnesses. Basically, the witnesses make positive IDAs only after
they're repeatedly shown Joaquin, and for one of them, she
doesn't even make a first positive Ida until the preliminary
hearing when he's literally sitting in a red jumpsuit at
the defense table, and then she's like, oh, I'm sure
that's the guy. And she says it's based on his
(20:32):
attitude that she can see is how she's identifying. I mean,
there's a lot of racism all through this trial, Like
she even says, I think they were speaking African.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So on April nineteen, nineteen ninety, Joaquin, you were arrested
in charged with first degree murder. Bro what was going
through your head? I mean, did you even think this
shit was real?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Do you know what?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Let me tell you, these whoop not even going like
washing my you. I really believe that everything worth real.
I was thinking that I was in a can't the
camera show looking all these people coming and pointed me
with a finger, Yeah, that the main And in my
mind I said main, I know, I know the camera
(21:17):
is going come out and they go and say a
smile you in camera, you know, because that was a
famite show at the time. I go to watch that
show tomorrow, you know, and I and I say, you
know what, I mean, what happened to me? I cannot
believe it? You you cannot being innocying, believe that what
(21:40):
is happening to you is real. You you cannot you know,
and that's what happened to me. And you know, to
respond to your question, no, you know, I steel, don't
get it, I steal. You don't even get it. Main
you're being charged with flost the good morning I just
(22:01):
deal them getting So.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
George had actually kind of disappeared, George Urella, he'd not
shown up for the prelim, he was missing leading up
to the trial. I honestly believe Jaquin's attorney just didn't
think he was even going to have to deal with George.
It was just going to be this eyewitness I D case.
And so he did I think a fairly good job,
you know, showing all these discrepancies between the descriptions and
(22:25):
what Joaquin actually looked like, their own inconsistent statements and
kind of the evolution of their IDs. He did a
nice job of showing that George Ofrella's timeline didn't make
any sense, that there was this like big gap in
between the way he says what they did that night
and how he drove Joaquin home. His timelines that lines
up with Joaquines that Joaquin is home long before the
(22:47):
murder happens. But what he missed, what he didn't manage
to do, And one of the things I really respect
about him is that he actually gave us a declaration
saying he was ineffective because he didn't present to the jury.
The jury never heard that Joaquin's name came from the
homicide inspectors first, and that they told Verrella essentially that
he had to identify Joaquin, So the jury just never
(23:09):
heard that. What they heard instead was this guy who
knows Joaquin, who'd grown up with him around is saying
he's the guy who was with me in my car
and who got out and shot him. And then he
hears that corroborated by these two independent eyewitnesses, and Joaquin's
attorney presented witnesses who describe what Joaquin looked like that night,
(23:29):
how he had Jerry Curl in the short jacket, But
he never presented the alibi witnesses. So they also didn't
hear that Joaquin was at home with his one month
old son and that they had a good reason to
remember that night because they were going to celebrate the
one month anniversary of his birth the next day. So
you know, they knew that George Verrella was incentivized, they
knew he got immunity, they knew he was in and
(23:51):
out of trouble. So it wasn't a super strong case
even with what they heard. But what they never heard
was anything else about someone else actually did it, or
that Joaquin had this really credible alibi, and so they
end up convicting him.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
It don't matter if I'm trying to explain to you
a thousand times, I cannot even feeling close to really
really tell you how I feel when they come out
with the guilty verity.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
You know, everything.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Inside me stopped, everything, I stop reading, my heart stop.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It is a feeling.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
That you can never You can never explain how it
is that they find.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
You guilty espece you.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Find me guilty or the moory of my bed frameming
that's all I really killed me? How can I be
doing time for the money or my bes friend made
somebody that I love even to today, I ended almost
(25:32):
opened Pennican Bey prism in what the more tough prisum
in the California system at the time. I see people
when they told these people you go into Pennica Bay,
I see grown Maine crumbled in the floor and crying
when I was in some queen, you know. And I
ask the people and I say, hey, Main, why he crying?
(25:55):
I said, man, you don't know where we're going. He said,
We're going to Pennican be And I said, what a body?
I said, Cuba. Let me tell you man, it is
no joke. He said, may wait until you get there.
You know it was true. You know when I got
to tell you, Maine, every time that you heal alarm
(26:17):
sound in that prison, it was not a first alarm.
It was somebody got killed, you know. And I said, man,
how did I ain't in there?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Boo?
Speaker 4 (26:32):
My mind is still. Do not stopping play some trick
on me? I remember, you know. I who to wag
into my said go to sleep. And I had to
cover my head with the blanket, real tie, and I
had to close my eyes royal tie. And I hold
to say, Main, when I open my eyes, now, when
(26:53):
I open my eyes, now, I know this.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Is a three.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
This is a three. I go and being home, we
might sign with my babies. Mama, this is I three. Man,
this is a three. I went, I got Cobby might sell.
I need to say, you know, I say, wow, man,
this is real.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Mmm.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So I gotta ask you, man, like, how did you
hold on to hope so much for all those years?
Because I always always say, you know, for a person
that committed crime, it's hard, you know, to deal with
the time, But for an innocent person sitting there, it's
a whole different level because you're going through everything, whether
it's the violence in the prison, the abuse from the cops,
(27:41):
whatever it is, the CEOs, whatever it is. So how
did you hold on the hope that you would get out?
Speaker 4 (27:48):
You know why? In the beginning I watched completely ain't good.
We got everything that I got in my mayis how
did I go and prove that I don't do what
I can do?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
You know?
Speaker 4 (28:03):
And the good thing about it is and thank God,
you know, to all the emails, you know, in every
priest that I be, Brother, in every priest that I be,
every email, believe on me. They can see through into
my heart. They can see through into the type of
(28:25):
man that I was. You know, this call it homies, homeboy.
They're asking me working and why are you here for?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Man?
Speaker 4 (28:36):
And I say, man, brother, they give me toty one
year to life or a model that I not come
make I'm taking God. They say, hey, man, you know
what I mean. I believe you walking. I believe you,
and I say thank you man. And I received so
much respect. I receive the respect that the systems don't
(28:57):
give it to me. I got an ef all these
email the respect that deceased deny to me. I got
in it from all these people.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
And page can you can you walk us through the
post conviction litigation? I mean didn't Evidently nothing worked for him.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, I mean you got to give Joaquin credit, like
he litigated his case to the nines, Like he got
himself into federal court. I know he had helped from
jail house lawyers. I have a lot of respect for
jailhouth lawyers. And I mean, unfortunately the courts just refused
to look at it and refuse to listen. But what
eventually happened was Joaquin had earned the respect not only
(29:39):
of other incarcerated folks, but also some of the free staff.
And we were contacted by this guy, Ray Leonardini, who
ran a meditation circle that Joaquin was a part of,
and also Ellen Egger's pro bono attorney who have partnered
with in a few cases. Was helping another guy with
parole who told her, you have to meet Joaquin, like
he's actually innocent and you need to help them. And
(30:02):
so Ellen went and met Joaquin. He told her everything.
She like everybody, found him very compelling and believable, and
so she The first thing asked her to do was
go talk to George Verilla's sister, Denise Courcier, and Allan
did that and Denise told her, my brother told me
that Joaquin is innocent, that it was another Cuban man,
(30:24):
and that the police really wanted Joaquin, and George was
scared of them, and so he went along with what
they wanted. But what really turned the case around was
when Roberto Sacoro got out of prison. He went to
Cuba and he tracked down Joaquin's family and told them
that he personally knew that Joaquin was innocent because he
had actually seen the whole thing from his motel room.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
And listeners, remember, Roberto Cicoro was another friend of Joaquin's.
The day before all of this happened, Roberto had killed
this other guy named Ruben Alfonso, and he was hiding
out at the Bay Bridge motel waiting on Felix to
bring up some clothes when he heard Felix southside argon
with Candido Diaz.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
They had been fighting over over a gun and not
paying for the gun, and so he recognized their voices
and they start coming in and out of his view,
and you know, he hears the gunshot and he runs
out and he sees Candido get into the white Monte
Carlo and drive away, and he basically broke down and
apologized to Joaquin's family and explained that while he was
(31:25):
in he'd been a shot caller initially, and so he
felt like, you know, in addition to the normal amount
of trouble you can get in in prison for snitching,
that he, especially as someone who'd sort of enforced those rules,
would be even more in danger. And for a long
time he'd hope to be able to get his own revenge,
that at some point Candido would get locked up and
(31:46):
he would be able to avenge Felix's death, and in
some ways, fortunately that never happened, and instead he gets
out and tells the truth, and that really broke open
the case.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And Ellen also tracks a couple of people that George
Verilla had talked to and had told them Joaquin was innocent.
One was Joaquin's sister Denise, and the other was a
woman named Kadi dad Gonzalez.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
She was friends with Nelli Hernandez, George's mother, and also
knew Joaquin through Nelly and through the Cuban community. George
tells her also, so it's very similar to what he
said to Denise, that he knows Joaquin is innocent and
didn't do this. And so we had these two statements
from George Verilla to two different people saying that Joaquin
was innocent and also saying that it was another Cuban man.
(32:32):
And so Candy ro Diez is not only Cuban but
also matches the original description. He was always had his
hair in an afro, He was known to wear long
trench coats. And it turns out he'd had this, you know,
ongoing and escalating feud with Felix Pasta Rica right before
the murder, and it all started over the weapon that
may actually have been used, a forty four, which was
(32:53):
actually the weapon they said was used to kill Felix
Basta Rica. So Ellen had done most of the investigation
by the time she came to me, and it was
only the Roberto piece that came afterwards. But we really
felt like that pushed it over the top. And then
the Innocence Commission also got an eyewitness I D expert
to look at the eyewitnesses and just really explain and
(33:15):
under the social science that we now know even more.
While all of those all the reasons eyewitness identifications are unreliable,
but we're especially so in this case.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Well not just unreliable. I believe one of the witnesses,
Kathleen Gavada, had another reason to identify Joaquin.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
You know, the same warm I say from the Beginni.
Now that I hold the SHOLDI D demain, I only
atey poucing and Leo, you know, to give you difending
change and watch you see, well CHI got.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
So, Paige, after all this new information you put in
front of them, did the courts quickly agree that Joaquin
was innocent?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I mean we expected them to, especially because the DA's
office was on board, and that.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Was District Ernie chesso Bodin, who was repeatedly under fire
from the police union and adversaries. There were I think
like two recall elections, so his political foot and was
never secure and he was the one that was making
the recommendation based on the Innocence Commission findings.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
They had this separate Innocence Commission, right that was supposed
to be this independent body. It had DA's public defenders, experts,
law professors, you know, like this whole commission of different
stakeholders who all agreed Joaquin is fully innocent. And in
my experience, usually when that happens, the courts are pretty
willing to go along pretty quickly, right, But unfortunately we
had the exact opposite experience here, and I can only
(34:38):
imagine some of that was the politics going on in
San Francisco. The court essentially just the first thing they
did was ask us to do another round of briefing,
and they invited the Attorney General's office, in which you
know doesn't generally happen in superior court. But here's the
court saying, you know, District Attorney, I don't trust what
you have to say, and so Attorney General, I'm inviting
you in to tell me something different. Fortunately, the AG's
(35:02):
office also saw that this wasn't a case to oppose.
Everything pointed to Joaquin's innocence. There's no reliable evidence of
guilt anywhere. But even after you know, a second round
of briefing in the AG's office refusing to come in.
They still had us have an evident you're hearing, and
so here we are both sides arguing for the same thing.
So we're both presenting opening statements on Joaquin being innocent,
(35:24):
and then we're both doing closing arguments about how he's
entitled to relief and how we all believe he's innocent
and the judge should reverse his conviction. Luckily, by then
we'd been switched to a different judge, was a really good,
experienced judge and just saw all the problems with the case.
And then finally, on April eighteenth, the court reversed Jakin's
conviction and the district attorneys again announced he was innocent.
(35:48):
They dismissed all of the charges.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Man, I almost fail to be fluw.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Yeo to go out to free the freedom that I
want deny for almost thirty two years, and I don't
even know how to make it all the way to
the door, you know, And I keep walking.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I'm walking on imagin you know where when they open.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
The door to me and I see, you know, I
see pay ailing, my son and my baby's mama, I
see everybody. Man, it was too much for me. I say,
my god, it was a day unbelievable. This type of feeling.
You have to really go through that for you can
(36:37):
really have the thing what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
It is unbelievable. It is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. And of course we're
all super grateful to the Northern California Innocent Project and
the fantastic work that they do because it's through them
that people like Joaquin can you know, have a chance
to get back to this free world. So if anyone
want to show the Northern California Innocent Projects some love,
we'll have the link in the bios so you can
(37:06):
do that. So we've got to the point of the
show where we do this thing called closing arguments. And
first I want to thank y'all for being here, and
I also want to ask y'all to share your final
thoughts for the listeners, you know, anything that you want
to say, any takeaway you may have, and page I
(37:27):
want to first start with you and then we can
close with Joaquin.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
So the thing that I think we haven't done a
great job of yet, especially in San Francisco, is like
we know, there was this era in which they were
treating especially young black men terribly, and saw themselves as
like cleaning up the streets by somehow getting people involved
in homicides and throwing them away for life. And there
are six people who've been exonerated out of San Francisco.
(37:53):
All of them are black men, and five of them
are from this nineteen ninety era. They all have incredible story.
You should look into all of them. Joaquin, Maurice Caldwell,
Antoine Goff, John Tennyson, and Karen mad Conley, who I
know you've already interviewed. But what we haven't done is
look back at what else went wrong there. So it
shouldn't be luck of the draw, right whose cases get
(38:14):
looked at and who gets picked up? And so Headjoaquin
not you know, convinced other incarcerated folks that he was
innocent and then one of them meeting Ellen like you know,
this luck of the draw thing. It's not okay for
justice to be that arbitrary, what little justice exists in
our system. And so my hope and listeners I'd love
(38:35):
for you to encourage this is that we actually look back.
There's four homicide investigators who were involved in all of
these cases. We could look at their cases. We could
look at all cases from this era. You know, cdcr's
budget for this year is over fourteen billion dollars. Just
imagine what would happen if we just spent a tiny
fraction of that on actually looking for where things went wrong,
(38:57):
starting with the places we already know things went Everybody
should have a chance to prove themselves no's as bad
as the worst thing they've ever done. And you know,
these guys who have done all this time like you
are Land, like Yuki, and who have come out and
shown like I mean, one of the things I just
love also about what you've been doing is just highlighting
the humanity of people right whether they're incarcerated or not.
(39:19):
We are all have this huge amount to offer and give,
and I just would love for us to stop leaving
so many people behind and really start focusing on using
our resources in better ways.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
What I want to say, you know, to all be listening.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I want to lay everybody know that what happened to
me is continually happening right now, and the only way
it can be at top we all have to come
out together and do something about it. I always say,
if you were capable to go to the moon. We
(39:57):
have to be capable to prevent that anal same pace
go to prision. Simple like that, How can you go
to the moon, but you cannot premain one person to
go to prison.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
It domain saying.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
I know right now, at this moment, in some part
of the country in a court house, somebody's going to
prison right now, being innocing.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
It is no doubt in my mind.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
And he going through for the same thing that I
go through when I was in that position. I know
we can stop it. I know we can do so
anything about it because I know Number one is we
need to make the dis ratony accountable for any wrong doing.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
That they do.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
And I said the every dish rat No, we got
some really good distro rattorney that they do their job,
They go by the law and they honest the people,
how walking people. But we got some other one that
they don't care, they don't get They want to wing
our cakes our this space on the ego same people.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
We have to stop.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
Doc.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'm your guest host
Erline Woods. I like to thank executive producers Jason Flumm
and Kevin Waters for inviting me to be here good
Looking Special thanks to our wonderful production team Connor Hall,
Annie Chelsea, Lila Robinson and Jeff Clyburn. The music in
this production comes from three Times Oscar Numbernee Jay Rath.
(41:38):
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at
Rome Conviction, as well as Lava for Good. On all
three platforms. You can find me online at Erline Woods,
and you can find my podcast ear Hustle wherever you
listen to podcasts. Wrongful Conviction is a product of Blober
(42:00):
for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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