Andor Season 2 (Episodes 1-3) Roundtable

Jason and Rosie are joined by Joelle and Abu to dive even deeper into the first three episodes of Andor season two.

Jason’s Movie List: Andor Season 2 Syllabus, or How to Resist an Empire

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for and Or season two
episodes one, two, and three. Will be talking about them
at length. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion, been on

(00:29):
Mersday Night and welcome back to x ray Vision of
the podcast where we dive deep bit your VIVERI shows movies, comics,
pop culture, bringing you three massive episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday plus news.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
In today's episode, we are convening the Jedi Council to
break down the excellent first three episodes of and Or
season two. If you haven't listened to our recap, go
back and get recast in to it, and then jump
in and listen to us with our super producers Joel Naboo,
who we are welcoming right now.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Hello, Hello, Hey, Hey, how's it going.

Speaker 4 (01:05):
How you're feeling emotional?

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yes, it is emotional. It's emotional.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Rosie and I have have opined at length your thoughts
on the first three episodes of van Or. Joel, let's
start with you.

Speaker 5 (01:21):
There's so much to say in these first three episodes
for not a lot of events happening, I feel like
a lot of information is gained, which is kind of
what you want out of a pilot, And I think
you can look at these first three episodes as a
single pilot for this season. I know it's not launching
the show, but it is setting us up for like
a super specific time. Androy is such a weird experience
because we know where it ends and we're getting a

(01:44):
very clean lead up into this moment.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
And I was like between the.

Speaker 5 (01:50):
Wedding, like bigs if we're gonna have to talk about
bixs because I'm concerned that she's just gonna be a
punching bag for the season. And it makes me nervous
the love we get between Ceial and Deda. You know,
I think what really moves me is like it's Star
Wars guys, like in a way that I'd not quite
hear the first season.

Speaker 6 (02:06):
One carry Star Wars.

Speaker 5 (02:08):
We get like a comical moment with a pilot entering
the scene, which is crazy.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
We're getting like.

Speaker 5 (02:14):
Stunts and spycrafts and Padme levels of costuming.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
The wedding dress, the Padme web inspired wedding dress stunning.

Speaker 5 (02:22):
And I just feel like Star Wars has grown up
and I'm not sure if it's like I've grown up
into original ideas of Star Wars. I didn't care about
trade roots and shit when I was a kid, all
that stuff, and wait, I said, bring out the lightsabers.

Speaker 4 (02:35):
Now I'm facing real life threats and I'm like, oh.

Speaker 5 (02:39):
It's a study book. It's a guy like, let me
take notes. And I feel like we've stepped into a
completely new era of Star Wars. And for you know,
the team to have built both a BBC style great
epic of season one and now'll match it with the
epicness of Star Wars.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
The heart of Star Wars that.

Speaker 5 (02:57):
Like Kernel of Hope, which is what I really think
resonates in Rogue one to combine it all here. I mean,
I am blown away by these first three episodes.

Speaker 6 (03:05):
How about you a boom?

Speaker 7 (03:06):
I feel like Joelle covered it. I am having such
a great time. Honestly, I haven't had this much fun
since Anakin Skywalker said this is where the fun begins
and a revenge of the sip.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Like it is too early.

Speaker 7 (03:20):
They were only three episodes in, so it's like too
early for me to make any bold claims like and
Or is the best thing to ever come out of
Star Wars. But I am already very tempted to say
things like that I loved this.

Speaker 6 (03:30):
You wouldn't be the only person if we look at
those come out. That's a very big.

Speaker 7 (03:35):
The reviews are glowing from folks who have seen the
whole season. I loved these first three episodes. Everything was
top notch writing, acting, cinematography, costume, set design, just like
twelve out of ten across the board. Rosie, I believe
you said in the recap that the money is on
the screen.

Speaker 8 (03:50):
And boy, isn't you know?

Speaker 7 (03:52):
Like, yeah, it is an absolutely gorgeous show top to bottom.
And I think, to Joel's point, like I'm in a
different place in life. I too, only cared about the
lightsabers when I was just rewatching the original films as
a kid. But now that I'm more grown up, I
want my Star Wars to be more grown up too,

(04:12):
And this show offers me like a level of gravitas
that I do nowadays find myself craving from other Star
Wars stories, and those Star Wars stories often fall short
for me, and that regard.

Speaker 8 (04:26):
This one is amazing. Just like a quick thing.

Speaker 7 (04:28):
I want to call out the very opening scene of
episode one where Cassine and that young real worker. We're
talking just some beautiful writing and dialogue. There some beautiful
themes around and relevant themes as I'm sure we will
get into today about oppression and rebellion.

Speaker 5 (04:46):
Are immigrant workers fighting?

Speaker 1 (04:49):
You know?

Speaker 7 (04:50):
Like it's prescient in that way when you consider this
show has been in production for many, many years.

Speaker 8 (04:55):
So I'm loving it.

Speaker 7 (04:56):
I'm having an absolute last I can't wait to get
into the rest of the season, and I'm sure I
too will be calling this the best thing to come
out of Star Wars once we're done.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Okay, so before we get into the nitegrity of the episode,
let's talk about what the reception is gonna be.

Speaker 6 (05:13):
Jason, do you think season two is gonna pull in
me more viewers?

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Do you think it's gonna be that big kind of
impact show that Disney has been spending the money on
and been marketing it on, and has clearly wants it
to be.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
I think that. No, I don't think so. I think
that there will there might be a statistically unimportant rise
in viewership. I think that could happen because of the
at least sitting here Wednesday morning, the almost overwhelming critical

(05:48):
claim that is like very loud and very strong from
everybody who's seen it as saying, this is great, this
is great, this is great, this is trenchant, this is
the Star Wars for our time. I was blown away,
et cetera, et cetera. I think you see a bump.
Do I think it's a hit? Sadly I suspect not,

(06:08):
because you know, I think they're structural problems. And then
you know, three episodes a lot to get people to
watch in a week, you know, of one show. I
think that's a that's a big ask. And listen, we're
all freaks.

Speaker 6 (06:22):
Stars, right, I can't deny it.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
So if you're a Star Wars freak, the hook here
is it's Star Wars, and the people who have seen
it are telling you it's potentially the best Star Wars
that they've ever seen, most adult, etcetera.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
I mean, it's now the highest rated Star Wars project
all time.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
I think if you are a more general fan of
Star Wars, or the kind of fan maybe that we
were when we were younger, I think you're thinking, where's
the hook, where's the lightsabers? You know, it's the same thing,
kind of is the Jedi, the same thing that kind
of kept people from engaging with and or or season one.

(07:05):
I think those problems are still I hesitate to call
them problems. I think they're still there. I think those
obstacles are still there.

Speaker 5 (07:12):
Yeah, obstacles for the IP to overcome are rather large,
just because of what's been built in before. I do
think that the three, if you haven't watched yet, what
are you doing here? But if you are and you
haven't seen it yet, I would encourage you to find
a time when you can watch all three time together.
I think yeah, I think they hit more. At least

(07:35):
this first batch certainly did. As like a movie like
it feels like you get the whole arc. You can
stop and pause and watch them as individual episodes. It
still feels structured like television and that you have a
single theme uniting each episode or whatever. But when you
watch them at a movie and you get the time
and pacing of these three days and the importance and
the impact, I think that's when you get the full experience.

(07:57):
Make it a Friday night thing. I think what we'll
see is you don't have to be caught. This won't
be appointment television.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
And maybe that.

Speaker 5 (08:04):
Will because that's how we agrees it is how many
did you get in one night?

Speaker 4 (08:09):
That'll be a little bit different.

Speaker 5 (08:10):
But if you can watch by Friday, you can go
back and listen to all the conversations you're interested in.
I think that works perfectly well, and I do hope
we see a huge spike in viewership because gosh, I mean.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
It's so good that people see at the.

Speaker 4 (08:26):
Top of excellent television we're getting right now.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
I also think folks like you can also speed run
it like it's really like it's an hour show, but
there's really only forty ish minutes of actual show, its recaps,
and skip the recap, skip the title, skip the there's
never a stinger. As soon as you see the credits,
move on, and you can cut your viewing. You can

(08:52):
cut your viewing time down by a lot.

Speaker 7 (08:54):
Yeah, watch it at one point five speed, honestly, I mean.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Honestly, Look, the truth is, oh my god, I'm actually
not I'm not someone who's ever done that. I don't
listen to stuff at that speed. It doesn't work for me.
I don't watch stuff at that speed. But you know what,
if that is how people want to choose to interact
with art, then who am I to say no? Like,
if that, if it works for you better that way,
go for it, and then maybe you'll want to check
it out at the normal speed that it was made

(09:19):
to be watched that afterwards, you know.

Speaker 6 (09:21):
But I would also.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Say I when I went to the premiere van Or,
which was more of like a teaser of the show,
Tony Gilroy did basically say they feel like they made
over this season of two, you know, two seasons of TV.
They basically felt like they made eight movies. And they
do feel like it's that way. It's in these arcs,
and I think if you can, you know, on a

(09:42):
Saturday afternoon, just put it on and give it a try.
And I think people who weren't necessarily huge fans of
the first season or dropped off after the first three episodes,
which were very slow burn, I think this opens in
a way that is made to hook any kind of
Star Wars viewer, just the first open it.

Speaker 6 (10:00):
I don't mean the whole preseason three episodes, but I the.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Opening sequence, which we'll talk about more in a little bit.
I think that was designed to hook anyone who likes
Star Wars. Now, whether you'll commit after that when it
gets a little bit more andorish and becomes a bit
more about interpersonal conflict and all the stuff we touched
on in the in the recaps. Who knows, but I
do think that most people, if you put on that
first episode and you have that like ten to fifteen

(10:24):
minute cold open, I think that will hook people who
aren't necessarily into the more kind of political trade war
side of Star Wars that George Lucas.

Speaker 6 (10:36):
Did really introduce in the prequels.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Aboo, how did you feel about the first three episodes
and do you feel like it's gonna get that spike
in viewers? Is it gonna make more people watch and Or.

Speaker 8 (10:48):
I don't think we're gonna see a huge spike.

Speaker 7 (10:50):
I probably fall somewhere between Jason and Joelle, like I.

Speaker 8 (10:55):
Think it remains to be seen.

Speaker 7 (10:57):
I think the show is getting a lot of word
of mouth support that I they don't necessarily remember and
Or season one getting in the same sense. And I
do feel to your point, Rosie, that these first three
episodes are a are a stronger hook for a wider
swath of Star Wars.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Fan I think the first three episodes of and Or
season one, and me and Jason talked about this when
we covered it on the pod.

Speaker 6 (11:22):
It was kind of boring, had a little it kind
of had some.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Flaws that hinted that maybe they didn't have the political
juice to tell the stories they were telling. But by
the time you get to that second arc, you suddenly realized,
oh no, this is something.

Speaker 7 (11:34):
Yeah, the second arc is incredible, but you do have
to get through an hour and a half of television
to get there, and I'm sure a lot of folks
dropped off at that point. I think this first hour
and a half maybe has enough hooks to grab more people.
And I think it's quite interesting that they're dropping the
show three episodes at a time. And I wonder if

(11:56):
this sort of Tony Gilroy saying we're making movies, releasing
eight movies one chunk at a time is a strategy
that other streamers might consider, because I think like a
lot of streamers have been have felt like bound by
old school TV rules like we either released once a week,
or we're Netflix and we binge drop and we haven't

(12:16):
seen experimental releases in this way, and and or might
be it could scenario that opens the floodgates for that.

Speaker 5 (12:24):
It could they just have the unfortunate result of having
to follow Tony Gilroy, who's created such a great struggle
because hand Or has such like a unique position as
like you know the end of the story like this
works for a lot of really specific reasons that I
don't know if other series or you have the jews
to pull off.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
We saw a little bit of our cane. It kind
of worked, though though it definitely could.

Speaker 6 (12:44):
I was gonna say it's more of an anime or
animation thing.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
I will say specifically, what is interesting about this if
you have yet to watch, or you watch the first
three episodes and you didn't realize this is every three
episode chunk is three days over a different year, and
then you jump a year ahead to the next chunk
of episodes, which I think is really unique and also

(13:07):
is a nice framework that was actually made for the show.

Speaker 6 (13:10):
The story this show is telling.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Was trying to work out how do we do this because,
as Tony has spoken about, this was originally meant to
be five seasons, and then after season one, they were like,
wait a minute, like can we really do that? Or
is there a way we can tell every season that
we wanted to tell in these chunks that could be
in one season and that's what season two is, just to.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Lightly push back. I do think that though the difference
between Arcane dropping three at a time and and or
dropping three at a time is Arcane was dropping. Netflix
was dropping Arcane three at a time to try and
prolong the buzz, the massive buzz, and they were already
so ideologically opposed to anything other than a binge drop

(13:57):
that it's notable when they do things like this with
Stranger Things Greatful, you know, love is blind, and with
Arcane it's really an attempt to try and capture the
news cycle for a longer period of time, whereas with
and Or you get the sense that it's most that
on the one hand, it's structural because the story is
structured that way, but it's also like let's get in out,

(14:19):
let's get in and out. Nobody's well yeah, And also that.

Speaker 6 (14:22):
Because I was you make it no, no, no. But
I think Jason makes a good point because.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
It does sit in that interesting space between a weekly
drop like Agatha all Along or the Acolyte, and then
something where they'll drop it all at once, which is
something they said they were never going to do, which
they did with American born Chinese because they didn't.

Speaker 6 (14:39):
Know how to market it. They wasted the opportunity.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
And I think that this does sit in that interesting space,
and we are probably repeating conversations that Execs has Because
this also answers the Emmy contention, it can still be
in Emy contention.

Speaker 6 (14:54):
So I think there's many.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Different reasons, and I think for me, I do feel
like this will have a significantly wider impact. I don't know,
you know, we can't really trust if Disney says, hey,
so many more people watch this, like those numbers are
not necessarily true or like accurate to how much how
many people watch more than two minutes, you know, same

(15:16):
with any streamer, But I would be I wouldn't be
surprised if by the finale, if the word of mouth continues,
it's only three weeks away, that final chunk of episodes.

Speaker 6 (15:26):
I could see it showing up on Nielsen.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
If the conversation is hot, if people want to write
cool articles about it, if people are doing podcasts about
it like we are, I think the word of mouth
could make it where by the final episode, we're seeing, Okay,
this is the kind of show that people want to
watch the into I think I'm crossing my fingers, but
I will I will say obviously, as Jason pointed out,

(15:50):
we're all freaks, little Star Wars freaky guys, just little
dudes in a fucking canteena watching Star Wars, right.

Speaker 6 (15:56):
But in the discord, you know, our.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Very thoughtful for one of our very thoughtful Discord leaders, Mara,
who always runs our watch parties, she made sure to
make a different Discord channel for every episode, and there
was a lot of people in our discord, along with
super producer Aaron, who were basically like, I cannot watch
three in a row like that, and that's people. I
also wonder if the word of mouth buzz will be

(16:21):
impacted by the fact that a lot of people are
not going to read an article about the first three episodes.
They're going to want to read a little bit about
the first one and then when they watched the second one.
So I'm interested to see how the word of mouth
buzz kind of continues, because again, this is a unique
situation and a unique release schedule.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, I think word of mouth is interesting. People don't
read anymore, which is and and try to keep to
write about this are going to be very very pro right.
But I also like nobody's people aren't reading them. And
then the the more kind of active social media slash

(17:00):
YouTube influencer based narrative spheres are you know, kind of
very toxic. I'm I am interested to see how those spaces,
how the like Star Wars has gone to woke spaces,
react to this, because.

Speaker 7 (17:16):
There's there's a lot of like toxic racist bait in
this show for people like that to latch onto.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, let's take a quick break and then we'll be
right back. And we're back, folks, let's continue to talk

(17:46):
about these three episodes and or season two episodes one, two,
and three. From these episodes, is there a scene, Is
there a moment that stood out to y'all as either
a wow moment or just something that hit you in
an emotional place unexpectedly? Joelle, I want to start with you.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
It's it's all about the wedding. For me, we have
royal weddings. Listen.

Speaker 5 (18:12):
I really feel like tons of understood what the people love,
which is padme and fabulous dresses. And we got the
next meet name, which is the man Mathma looking good
in every single scene, all of like the wedding dresses.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
She looks good in the Senate. She looks fabulous at
a wedding.

Speaker 5 (18:28):
The dress reveal, which I thought was so poignant and lovely.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
You have these.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
I love the way that Chang drill and braids. They
kind of look like they look like Jedi braids. They
look like Padawan braids. Like there's so much in the
language of Star Wars that we can recognize from the web.

Speaker 5 (18:45):
I was just gonna say, there's so much coding of
how young Leda is in this. The way she leads
the girls to the dresses. They're all holding hands, sneaking
down the hallway like they're eight. Like it's they're blindfolded too,
Like it's so precious, and it's She's like, I'm getting
married and you're like, girl, this is too much. But
like throughout the ceremony, I loved everything. I love Parents speech,

(19:06):
which actually I wanted to talk to you guys about
while we're here. So I was watching Celebration and Tony
was talking about how he was upset at people's response
and reaction to Parent in season one. He was like,
they don't understand this guy, and I think he's just
out here lying and cheating and wild and like, but
he's like a person I love to make up a
person so Gunzech. He gives him this great speech, where

(19:29):
so clear that parent has such love and affection for
his daughter, but he's a heenist. He's like, you know
what a party like, live life, guys, drink.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
This is what I was.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
About the Rebellion like, and I think that that's also
that's it's a fine thing to have in the show.
But also as well, I think it's like, sorry, Tony,
like people are going to be pissed at that.

Speaker 6 (19:47):
Mom Mothama is like a queen, and we feel like
we don't necessarily see.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Him loving her in the way that I would feel
like she is she deserves to be loved. Me and Jason,
in case you didn't know, we've both got big more
muffin macrushes.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
Who doesn't she is. She's amazing.

Speaker 5 (20:05):
She's like hers the strength and calm and like moral
conviction and trying to navigate all of this is really beautiful.
I liked this idea of It's to me, it's another
way to explore like the average person in the Rebellion,
which is what this show seems to like. Going back
in season one into now like has been really excellent

(20:26):
at it's like these are just the normal people of
the rebellion and like this is what so parents not
a party. He's not interested in the rebellion. But he's
also not interested in the Senate. He's not interested really
in his way, he's trying to throw good parties and
make sure people feel good.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
I was gonna says the tilistic because some people's response
is like, well, how can we get through this in
a way where we just feel good? Like how can
we know everything sucks? And if it comes to it,
I'm sure I would do the right thing. But right
now I'm really feeling like I'll just keep throwing these
parties and like entertaining people and maybe there's some some dealing,

(20:58):
wheeling and dealing going on, you know. I think the
wedding is a really good call, Joel, I personally am
going to say. I think for me the most like
the money money scene where I was like, oh, okay,
this movie is this show is so expensive. It's just
the opening where you know and Or is trying to steal.

Speaker 6 (21:17):
What they call here like a it's a test.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
It's like a new version of a tie fighter, but
it's an avenger, a tie fighter avenger which is like
a big part of Legends Cannon but has never been
seen like in canon on screen, so it can be faster.
It was created by Admiral Thraun in the actual books.
He had a hand in creating it. And something that
I think is really unbelievable about that scene is often

(21:45):
when we see people steal a ship in Star Wars, right,
they are immediately able to do it.

Speaker 6 (21:52):
They get it.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Like even Finn and Poem one of my favorite scenes
ever of any Star Wars movie where they steal the
ship and they run away and they bond and he
gives Finn his name, and it's very gay because clearly
they're in love.

Speaker 6 (22:06):
They're in love. It's love at first sight. But even
that scene, like it goes relatively well for them, right.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
It's like there's moments like they're still attached to the
you know, the charging cables or whatever, but the force
is with them now, I tell you who the force
is absolutely not within this situation Cassie and angel. I
love how bad he is at doing this because it's
so realistic to like how rebellions work, what revolution is.

Speaker 6 (22:32):
He gets into this ti fire that.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
He's supposed to be taking to say, hey, this is
a test, this is what they're doing now, but he
never considers that he won't know how to fly it.

Speaker 6 (22:40):
And then he gets in and he's like, Oh, what
the fuck is this?

Speaker 2 (22:42):
And I loved the moment and I got to see
this scene on the big screen, and I have to
say it was it was yelling in my ear, my
fucking head voice was like why didn't they release this
in the movie there? Why didn't they release this in
the movie there? And I do believe that in another
exact choice is probably at some point they did probably
a conversation about whether this could be like an event
style movie release, which I think could have worked. But

(23:06):
we have Disney Plus and they need they need people
to join Disney Plus.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
And I haven't had a lot of success release.

Speaker 6 (23:11):
No, they haven't yet television, they haven't yet found it.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
But I just for me, I thought that scene obviously
looked like I texted the group and was like, this
show looks like a million bucks. Every single moment is
on the screen and it hooks in your classic Star
Wars viewer, because I think what is really interesting is
they open the episode and they open this big opening
scene with him in you know, a black Stormtrooper costume, Like,

(23:36):
I don't know if it's a death Trooper. I don't
know what version it is. I don't know if it's
just like an early Stormtrooper or I guess it's a
Stormtrooper pilot costume.

Speaker 6 (23:43):
But this motherfucker. Look, you're like, whoa, isn't this meant
to be our hero?

Speaker 4 (23:47):
Shit?

Speaker 6 (23:48):
Like he's and if you.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Don't know the first season very well, you might be
completely shocked. And I think that's a first hook. And
then you get this unbelievable crash where he's just smashing
up the space and he has to get out through
just brute force of shooting the cannon, and it really
gave me that feeling of like, by the end of this,
you know, fifty to twenty minutes, you're cheering for him.
You're like, yeah, go for it, man, you can do it.

(24:09):
Do I think they keep up that momentum for the
whole three first three episodes, But I do think that
that that is, to me, the reason I've been recommending
this to everyone, because I'm like, even if you don't like,
you know, your standard long form Star Wars storytelling, if
you're more of a like let's just get to it.

Speaker 6 (24:26):
What's going on.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
The three episode release does that, and that scene at
the beginning is such an unbelievable visual feast that I
think that is the one that really got me excited.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
That ship is also such a great symbol of the
power of the Empire to start, like, without giving you
any additional information on the Empire, to be like, as
difficult as it is for him to escape, it's not
that hard for him to learn the ship exactly and
take out so many people so fat You're like, this
is one ship he is actively learning how to use,

(24:58):
and he does so much destruction and still gets away
and wins. They're fucked, Like, how are you supposed to
go up against an army of this is incredible. I'd
love that opening scene boot.

Speaker 8 (25:08):
And the seat reclines, which is the height of luxury.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
So you know, obviously I'm climbing right now in my
Eternals gaming chag guys, And I know Marvel did not
send it to me.

Speaker 6 (25:20):
I bought it on clearance.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Marvel send me all your old Eve, your Eternals merch
that I know nobody else is buying.

Speaker 8 (25:27):
Well for me.

Speaker 7 (25:27):
I think the wedding scene is the obvious response to
this question for me, like which scene looks like a
million bucks? Where's the price tag? But since Joel already
picked that, I also want to throw in Mina raw.

Speaker 8 (25:42):
Akaka Big Wheat.

Speaker 7 (25:44):
I thought all the scenes on Big Wheat were really gorgeous,
like the sprawling wheat fields that you can see all
the way to the horizon. This like warm color palette,
the like grungey but simple like homesteads and shops that
they're all living in, the beautiful silos. It's all kind
of like very cozy and idyllic, and y'all compared it
to Stardo Valley, which I think is perfectly apt in

(26:06):
your recap. It looks like a simple life on this planet,
your work, you participate in your community. I can I
imagine generations and farmers lived on Mina raw So even
that sequence and that scene and those scenes on that
planet were absolutely gorgeous.

Speaker 6 (26:23):
I totally agree.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
And you know this is going to maybe sound like
a random comparison, But when I saw Sinners, which you
should all go and see, it's amazing. When I saw
it the imax, I immediately thought about and Or and
the scenes on Big Weight, because there are these moments
that Ryan Coogle are in a cinematographer just showcase just
a landscape, but it tells you so much about the

(26:47):
story and where we are and what.

Speaker 6 (26:49):
People are doing.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
And I feel like the way that Tony Gilroy shoots
Big Wheat especially, is like, look at this, this is
what it could be. This is how they have been living.
It's peaceful, it's calm. There's a version of life where
you can hide from the Empire and still do great stuff.
And obviously, you know, we see that disrupted by the Empire.
But I love that sequence and I thought they did
such a good job of reintroducing us to characters like

(27:11):
Will and Bigs and see it like showing us where
they're at. You know, Jason, how about you? What was
your big money scene?

Speaker 5 (27:19):
Gosh?

Speaker 1 (27:20):
I do I think the wedding as well. You know,
I don't think we've ever seen anything like that in
Star Wars. There's been a lot of music, obviously, like
a dull back to you know, Episode four, Cantena scene,
Return of the Jedi, the wonderful party in the in
the gigantic redwood trees of end Or. There's always been

(27:42):
these kind of party scenes, but there's never been one that,
you know, like I think looked and felt like this.
This is m.

Speaker 5 (27:54):
It.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
First of all, the music was legitimately great. The dance
two there's like a there you know there, there's a
there's a thing that Mon is doing here where she's
under stress. She's having to deal with the outcome of
this really tough decision she made the results of her
money laundering in order to send funds to the rebellion,

(28:17):
which ended up with her having to offer her daughter's
hand in marriage, and this she doesn't want to do,
and she's under tremendous stress. There's multiple undercover rebel spies
and imperial figures at this wedding, Like that is you know,
I think anybody that's ever been in a room with

(28:40):
your current partner and an ex or your or your situation,
or your current partner and someone you hooked up with,
or two people that you hooked up with who don't
know about each other, can only imagine the fraction of
the stress that Mon is feeling with figures who if

(29:02):
they talk, could result in like interrogation and death. For
you know, a dozen people in this room, including like
her love ones like this is incredibly stressful and for.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
Losing their absolute ship.

Speaker 6 (29:16):
Well, yeah he's not. He's in my enemy list for
this show, Tay.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, well let me tell you I have empathy for TA.
But that's true. Later he helped, he really did help
them out. And now he's like, hey, I'm the only
one without a fucking raincoat in and it's storming.

Speaker 5 (29:35):
And that's what you think. Or you get into these situations, Tay,
you can't contra just just i mean charged into this
to help, which is lovely. Thank you, they needed your help,
But then you didn't build any protection for yourself.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
The deal is over, I mean loudly, just to anyone, I.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Will say that I have Again, I'm not saying that
I I'm just saying that I have empathy for the game.

Speaker 7 (30:02):
He helped get it too. When your childhood crushed, man,
Mathma shows up with a request, you just say.

Speaker 4 (30:08):
Do it help?

Speaker 1 (30:09):
And then you know surely she doesn't. She doesn't share
all the details about what was happening. And then as
he begins to kind of glean the danger he's in,
he's sitting there going, well, wait a second, you've got
your people.

Speaker 4 (30:23):
Backing you up.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Davel Skolden is a fucking active warlord in the galaxy.
He's fine, like I'm just take Homo like out here,
like what's for me? So I get his wife.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
His wife left them, which I do think they kind
of imply is because of this reconnection with.

Speaker 6 (30:40):
Ma We and Mon.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Will listen, Mon feels terrible that she put it in.
She's not just terrified that that Tay could blow everything
up with this very hamhanded attempted extortion that he's very
lightly unhurling, right, but also the fact that that she
did put him in this but like she reached out

(31:02):
to a friend and put them under the executioner's block.
She did that, so she's feeling terrible about it.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
That was one when she didn't know, like she was
not aware of what the rebellion was really about. She
hadn't got a handstudy, and we start to see how
kind of more coming from her.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Hands have been getting progressively dirtier. So she's there's an
aspect to this for a different this is a different conversation,
but like there is an aspect of idealism and recklessness
that you need to have to enter into this kind
of ongoing concern. That said, the when Mom breaks into

(31:37):
the dance and kind of is like, you know what,
for the next fifteen minutes, I'm gonna I'm gonna dip
into Parent's energy, the one who is like, you know,
like from parent. I have empathy for him.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
It's like his perspective is his perspective is, Hey, we're rich.
Why are we getting in with anything troubling? Why not shossle?

Speaker 4 (32:03):
But I understand why not?

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Just got to fuck up and enjoy our money. It's
not my neck, it's not our neck, it's not our
daughter's neck. Let's just sit back. It's terrible what's going on.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
But look at how much we have to lose Jason's
classic for this season we go to add the classic
disclaim obviously no relevance that to anything in real life.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
Anyway, all.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
I was, we're going to share the list later, but
I made a list on letterbox of films that I
think have influenced and or or at least in the
same kind of vibe as and Or in season one
and two. One of them is a doctor Renner called
The Sorrow and the Pity about the French resistance in
World War Two, and uh, you know, one of the things,

(32:52):
one of the Resistors talks about how the people who
it was, the blue collar people, the working people who
would give you the shirt off back and help you
and hide the guns and do all these things. It
was the people who had something to lose that you
had a lot of trouble getting to help you. And
I think and that really resonated, like that's that's Peren.

(33:13):
He has got too much to lose in his mind.
And I get it.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, I understand, and he's worked in his you know,
it's like why put ourselves at risk? Well this actually
sets up our next question perfectly, which is that? And
we kind of touched on it because for me, I
think Mon is that like mon'stance is definitely up there.
But for you guys were like that, what was the
moment that was like the biggest emotional gut punch? Like
what was it that kept that kind of went Oh, like,

(33:38):
you're watching it, you're into it, you're vibing on the
tie fighters, you're looking at the wedding, But what was
that moment where you were like, oh shit, I can
remember like the power of this show A boo, who
is your what's your biggest gut punch moment? The moment
that kind of really hooked you in on that emotional
level of what this show can do. Uh.

Speaker 7 (33:55):
I definitely had a couple of ones that I was
tossing around in response to this question, but the one
I'm gonna go with happens in episode three. It's that
short scene where Mon is talking to her daughter before
they enter the circle and do the like traditional official
whatever wedding ceremony thing, and Man tells her daughter that

(34:15):
she doesn't have to go through with this, that they
can walk through that door and just tell everybody that
wedding it's delayed, and h For some reason, I found
that really really touching, like it speaks to Man's characters
so much, because I feel for her like she is

(34:35):
in this family the only rebel, the only person that
can like look at the status quo, that can look
at all this pomp and circumstance and chandrill and tradition
around her and go, we don't fucking need this, Like there,
we can do away with all of this in much
the same way that like thematically, and she's like, we
can do away with the empire, like we don't need

(34:56):
this status quo and sticking to tradition and seeking to
what we know, is it maybe always the right path?
And in fact, she even tells Leita that if we
go out there and call off this wedding right now,
that it will quote be remembered as a great act
of bravery, which could be said about many of many

(35:17):
acts by many rebels over the course of Star.

Speaker 8 (35:19):
Wars against the Empire.

Speaker 7 (35:20):
Right. Yeah, And so I really resonated with Mon here,
not necessarily as a mother speaking to her daughter, but
as sort of the outcast of the family. Maybe everyone
in your family thinks you're crazy for thinking differently, mm hmm.

Speaker 8 (35:34):
I felt that I think.

Speaker 6 (35:35):
That touches on are really good.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
My one I have like a I have a couple
of split ones, but but one I think the one
that really made me kind of like catch my breath
was actually in the first episode, I believe, which is
when Liita has the argument with her future husband he
won't hold her hand, he's like a kid. She kind
of has this romantic ideal of what it should be
this wedding, obviously because she has seen it points her

(35:58):
parents be in love and those kind of people. But
the thing that got me is just when Mon says
she's just like I'm sorry, and I think it was
the nature of a sincere apology from an adult to
a child, which we never.

Speaker 6 (36:13):
Get to see.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
But also in that moment, the apology is so weighted
because she's actually not apologizing because they don't get along.
She's apologizing because I fucking sold you into this marriage
to help these other people who I would.

Speaker 6 (36:26):
Probably never meet. And there was so much in that moment,
so much.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
In that I'm sorry that that really caught me and
I thought about it a lot the rest of the episodes.

Speaker 6 (36:35):
Joelle, how about you.

Speaker 5 (36:36):
Yeah, So if the full circle moments for Mon are devastating,
like her whole thing about her mother, you know, being drugs,
she I just I just now understand, like why my
mother's behaving'sway at my own wedding. The b is a
brave act almost read to me as like a wish
Mon Mathma had been brave enough to do on her
wedding day, you know, like she's coming to these complete

(36:59):
full conclusions about everything in her life, about her status
as a rebel, like what it means, like what that
actual sacrifice is going to have to look like on
she has like these come toutment with her husband it's
like not cheating on you?

Speaker 4 (37:13):
What are you talking about?

Speaker 6 (37:14):
Like that's crazy, like she is.

Speaker 5 (37:17):
She's like, I'm in a rebellion. That's the deception that
you're sensing. It's not cheating.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
This trust you.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
Right, Like the the all of that is great.

Speaker 5 (37:27):
I put down something and then Aaron came at me
so hard with a fact that I just could. I
was like, I was like, since a barely acknowledged vel
the tragedy. He was like, what about Bix And I
was like, Nope, you're right, You're right, it's not about
uh my queer love obsession was let's roll back. So
I'm gonna say the the PTSD elements of Bicks' story

(37:50):
are destroying me, like when the dream with the doctor
and her, she's waking up in bed and he's like,
that's so terrifying. And then to be without you know,
and Or who you know. We talked about this before
we started recording. There's not a kiss when and Or

(38:11):
and Bixed reunite, but there is a love connection if you.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
There is a hug, there's a you're so happy to
see that person hug.

Speaker 8 (38:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (38:19):
I would leave at one point, Andor calls her his
home and so I was just gonna say, like the
everything Bix goes through and then to be attacked again
by the Empire in a way that if you're a woman,
is almost mundane, Like you know what I mean, Like
she's a beautiful woman alone.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Agree, I agree. I actually found to me the assault
I could have done without it. I think that the
thing that really scared me and that we talked about
on the podcast is just the guy showing up at
her door and being like, I'm aware you're alone, and
there's nothing you can do about this. And if I
if you don't agree to consensually like go to the

(38:58):
bar with me, I can just whatever I want to.

Speaker 6 (39:00):
I can kill you.

Speaker 8 (39:01):
Yeah, yeah, the.

Speaker 5 (39:04):
I will force you to do this is so swift
and genuinely terrifying. It again very mundane and does not
a galaxy bar for away needs happen like it is.
It is very in your face for her to get
her lick back so soon I was, I was on
the same fence with you, Rosie.

Speaker 7 (39:21):
Of just it's also with the additional subtext in that
scene that he is pretty aware that she's probably undocumented
as well. So even the additional subtext of like I
have power over you because I know you have no incourse.
You can't even do anything about this.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, just not to interrupt, but just to say I
think that one of the I think one of the
what that made me think of that particular interaction, with
multiple interactions with that Imperial squad leader, is it. You
know what, at a certain point people joined to do that.

(40:00):
You know they will join when you learn that you
can join an organization that lets you have complete power
over other people. Nobody's really looking at what's happening. You know,
you just kind of like snatch people, disappear them. There's
no logs, there's no nothing. The people who want to
do that are drawn to that life. And that's what

(40:22):
the Empire is now on a lot of levels, is
people who want to do that.

Speaker 8 (40:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (40:28):
And I think my big concern coming off because I
had to say, like we've for sure seen through throughout
the history of film and television sexual assault against women
being used as plot devices for guys to get their
lick back, to make us empathetic to women or whatever.
I think Tony has a more deft pen. I do worry.

(40:49):
I can't have BIGS being a punching bag all season
like that.

Speaker 6 (40:52):
She has to ship back together.

Speaker 5 (40:54):
Yeah, like whatever that means for her, there has to
be healing and and I'm moving on from this point
to some degree because I just I my poor soul
can't handle it. And it's also it's just to me,
that's an important element of the rebellion. I'll put it
that way. To me, like, if this is a constant
thing that women go through, whether we're in a chaotic
time or not, and we know that it is, then

(41:17):
but we also know how many if you know, women
come back, they fight back, they find the ground. We
just we need that arc for her or it's going
to be very disappointing. So that's a yeah, that all
of that storyline was incredible, But thank god she got
to kill that guy. How satisfying fucking cop guy who
came in and.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
Was like wa talked too awful. Yeah, we should probably
also very quickly just mention brass. So getting shot right
to that man, RP.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
That man he did a lot.

Speaker 6 (41:44):
He should never have got shot, Jon, hero of Pheris.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Was there any other moments we didn't touch on that
kind of caught you in that way? And how'd you
think in like this show still has the juice.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Well, there's so many there's so many themes and things
in the show and interactions and scenes that I just
think about on a as a person who cares deeply
about the world and reads a lot. And I think
one of them, even though I shit on them through
our recap, was the scene of the the infighting, the
rebel infighting, because it's you know, it's something I think

(42:15):
about so much as a person who's been to a
lot of protests over my adult life and has experienced
like these kind of debates where rather than fighting the
enemy in front of you, you're fighting each other over

(42:36):
small Now I don't want to say small over details
that are unimportant. If you don't defeat the enemy. There
is no conversation about how we can shape the world
after the empire if you don't get to after the empire.
And so that scene of these like young idealistic rebels

(43:01):
scrapping with each other, shooting at each other, like arguing
about bullshit, not knowing what they're doing, it really resonated.
And I think part of the thing about resistance that
I think is necessary, that this I think this show
is saying is necessary, is like an amount of recklessness,
because if you are a rational person like paren, then

(43:26):
you say, I don't want to go to jail. I
don't want to lose everything. I don't want to lose
my job. I don't want to lose my friends. I
don't want to die. I don't want to get executed.
I don' want to get interrogated. Let's just like for
allow the rules and okay, So what you need is
people who go, I can't stand this so much that
I have to do something. And those are the people

(43:47):
who are you're gonna end up with, right like that
are first going to enter your barracks as recruits or
the people who like, I can't stand this anymore, I
have to do something. And the fact is those people
are are sometimes unstable, like sometimes they don't know what
they're doing. They don't have a fully formed ideological worldview.

(44:10):
They just know that they hate this and they want
to fight. And what you get is this like infighting.

Speaker 4 (44:18):
Now.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
The issue is that I think about a lot in
our real world is like, how come we need that level?
Just uh, it seems to devour its own and then
nobody ever rises from that to be like to be
able to like actually lead a group, and so it's
interesting to watch Cassie and I think kind of struggle

(44:39):
with this, Like he could be the leader of these kids,
right He's telling them, here, do this, it's rain and
collect water all these things, but he also like doesn't
want to. He's like, you guys are fucking annoying. You
guys are.

Speaker 5 (44:50):
Idiots, exactly such a side that part. It'd be such
a side quest for him that he just completely throw
them off mission. And on top of that, there's no
one here willing to capitulate. There's nobody here willing to
bend the need to know you've got we're going in
this direction, like we just have to go, and like
that ability to coordinate and move together is such an
essential element of any like group task. I mean, take

(45:14):
rebellion and fighting and war out of it. Like there
were never going to get past this point. They couldn't
agree on who to follow. It was a hot mess.

Speaker 7 (45:22):
I also think, while we're on the topic of the
Yavint scenes and the the young clueless rebels, on my
first watch, I was kind of like, these guys are
so annoying and these scenes are annoying me. But on
a rewatch sort of considering the bigger themes of this story,
I also wonder if these first three episodes and the

(45:43):
purpose of that those scenes in particular is to show
us like it is time for the rebellion to maybe
come out of the shadows. Like having Luthan, somebody like
Luthen operating different cells and total shadow secrecy will only
be so effective in a rebellion in achieving the end goal.
And someone like mon Mathma, some figurehead, bail organa, somebody

(46:07):
needs to step up and come out of the shadows
in order to finish the fight. This is not the
way you'll finish the fight. This is how you'll start it.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yeah, the shadow what could still work under but you
just it's part of the rebellion so far, it's all
of the rebellion. So I think you're right, you need
that side, and I do believe that we will get
to that place thinking of the timeline, But like you're right,
they need like a figurehead, you know, they need somebody
who will can kind.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
This is the here's the problem, and it's I think
a problem that I think people will resonate with the
rebellion controls nothing. Yeah, they don't have the heights of
the economy completely in they hands of the empire. They
don't have the media and an ability to communicate in
a safe and secure space. They're ideals what they want

(46:55):
to do. They can't voice an opinion anywhere. Three, they
don't even they Yavin is a place right that they're
hiding out it, but it's not a base yet. This
is why Yavin is so important, because you need that
safe space where you can gather and start to talk
about things. And so what you're I think you're absolutely
right aboot, like they need that. But there's also the

(47:16):
thing of everybody's been operating underground necessarily because again, the
rebellion controls nothing. They have no they have none of
the resources or the control of the recess or the
gates to control of the resources that would be necessary
to fight this. They don't even have gas for their
fucking chips yet. So how do you get that stuff?

(47:40):
And how do you get that stuff without getting arrested?
You have to do it in these little weird cells
that are just kind of coalescing on their own, and
it's a mess. And this is this is a necessary
stage to it, and it just it's you know, I
think a thing that maybe a lot of people are

(48:01):
thinking about is like, well, how do I I hate
what's going on? How do I do anything? And I think, like,
you know, I've seen other people write like this is
kind of a resistance handbook, and it is in the
way that like people decide I can do this one thing.
So I'm going to do this and I'm not going
to coordinate with anybody because that's dangerous. And that's where
the rebels are now. They can't coordinate because it's dangerous,

(48:23):
and it looks messy because it is, and hopefully they
get their shit together. Let's take a quick break and
regret back. Okay, world building, I think did we say

(48:50):
in these first three episodes, Rosie that this is the
best world building of Star Wars? I believe that, But
abou Joel, I'd love to hear your takes, Like, what
did you think of the world building in this in
these three episodes thus far? Aboo, Let's start with you.

Speaker 7 (49:07):
So I'm just going to call out a couple of
small world building details that I really liked. I totally
agree that, like this is some of the best Star
Wars world building we're getting on screen. You know, I
think there are many books that do wonderful.

Speaker 8 (49:19):
Star Wars world building.

Speaker 7 (49:20):
Yes, I want to shout out the DJ droid at
the wedding. He was having a great time and he
was helping everybody else have a great time.

Speaker 8 (49:30):
Love it.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Aaron is like, I'm seeing Yeah, It's like, finally, this
is the most important part.

Speaker 6 (49:36):
What did Aaron call them?

Speaker 7 (49:37):
Like diplow three poe three diplow po Aaron tried his best,
I get it, good joke. I also really, I mean,
I think a lot of the Chadrilline customs I found
really really fascinating. As Rosie you and Joel stated it,
it really connected to many aspects of Star Wars that

(49:58):
we can identify the braids. There was even a cutting
of the braids ceremony at one moment. So I really
enjoyed a lot of the chentrill and the custom of
like going up the side of the mountain to this
pointless little tradition. I liked a lot of that, and
I liked that the show was brave enough to just
dwell on that right, like to have a very long
drawn out scene where the parents and the kids who

(50:20):
are getting married do this whole song and dance thing,
and to let that scene Breathe and take take up
five minutes of an episode. I also want to shout
out that I really liked seeing Deirdre and cereals apartment
and coroside.

Speaker 6 (50:35):
Yes, it's interesting. It's interesting to see this.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
And I will say one of the biggest things I've
been running through the reddits today. I've been going on
the discord like and there was a Reddit post I
was going to bring up later, but really the point
he makes is so relevant to this reddit was a
black Drew and the he said he gave a great
kind of feeling about the show.

Speaker 6 (50:59):
But what he said that I think is very true.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
It is just seeing the normal the lives of the
normal people in this universe is fascinating. And I guess
that is what seeing people's apartments, What does it look
like if you work for the Empire?

Speaker 6 (51:13):
Where do you live?

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Like?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
It's so interesting to me, And I think the same
with Big Week. I think those sections of like building
out the world are easily some of the best that
we've seen in Star Wars and definitely feel very Lucas
like very prequels, very Lucas. Very Maybe you don't even
think you care about this, but then you end up
something like the DJ Droid. I'm already seeing so many

(51:37):
memes about that and about Mon's wedding, and.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
I think.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Cyril laying on the bed getting to see Chandrilla before
the Battle of end Or, when it's like and then
it becomes the capital of the new Republic, and seeing
what it was like before that, and seeing Mon's life
and the life of the people who just you know,
live and work there. I just think that stuff is
so interesting, and I do think that is one of
the biggest things that this show gets. Right Joelle, what

(52:06):
about you, What was your big world building moment that
you just loved.

Speaker 5 (52:09):
I was really interested in the internal world of and Or,
if that makes sense of like the character himself, we
meet him at such an interesting time, like Okay, first
of all, shout out to Curvy Girls in Space, our
very first one. She's amazing to start the show on
her inauguration into the rebellion, right, Yeah, to have When

(52:32):
we think about when we first meet Cassian, it's in
rogue one. He's meeting a spy. The spy's TELLINGHI, somebody's nervous,
and he's scared, and that's making and Or nervous and scared,
and so he killed him because he's like, yeah, we
don't have time for this, and I have to flee
from this planet. The fact that he takes time to
stop and speak to this woman and give her not
just encouragement, not just you know, like a little support

(52:56):
ince the moment she asked him a question. She said,
if I die tonight, was it worth it? Which is
sort of like the ultimate question, you know, for us
as a viewership because of where we're entering, We're asking,
is the eventual outcome of Cassian sacrifice worth it?

Speaker 4 (53:09):
You know, we understand it was worth it in.

Speaker 5 (53:12):
That our heroes later and episode four are going to
be but we're like in the last of us space,
which like, hmm, it's our love for Cassian that we've
built over time. Is it going to be worthy to
us to lose him even though we know that eventually
it works out for everybody. And so he gives us
this line, which is this makes it worth it? This
right now being with you being here at the moment

(53:32):
you step into the circle again, We'll come back to
the idea of how important circles is. You made this
decision long ago. The Empire cannot win You'll never feel
right until you're doing what you can to stop them.
You're coming home to yourself. You've become more than your fear.
Let that protect you.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
What I love about this too, is like when he
meets Jin in the in he says to a welcome home.
So this is part of He's like practice say, like,
what do you say to rebels? And you're more than
you fear is something that Nemick said to him, you
know about when he was talking about the journals. So
I love that we're seeing Andor's life as it is

(54:10):
influenced by other rebels that he has met and the
way they have made an impact on him, and then
how he is going to continue that to other young rebels.

Speaker 6 (54:17):
I think that's so amazing.

Speaker 5 (54:19):
Yeah, I just feel like we sort of removed a
lot of the fantasy element of Star Wars, even tho
I started this episode saying, bout like the Star Wars
is so back in here. It like the stripping down
of that over time, Like it makes the show so
much more terrifying and brilliant, brilliant, And I think it
does break the world wide open to experience not just

(54:41):
the black and whites of good and evil, but like
the idea of who are you going to save in
this moment and what can you do right here in
this space?

Speaker 4 (54:49):
I think that is.

Speaker 5 (54:52):
Just so vital to the storytelling, and it makes everything
feel so much more like I just think you can
feel for these care even more than you could feel
like Lay and Lukey wanted them to get out, okay,
but they were adventurers and heroes, and because they were
built on that hero's journey, you know where their outcome is.
They've already busted that wide open and so now all
you can do is hurt and feel while you're watching

(55:14):
these people do what they need to do so that
everybody else can have a brighter future. It's devastating, but
it's so good and I think it makes everything feel
so much more tangible and real.

Speaker 7 (55:22):
Yeah, and speaking to the idea of this being a
rebellion guidebook, right and Cassie and telling all of us
that it's okay to be scared.

Speaker 8 (55:30):
It's okay that we maybe did.

Speaker 7 (55:32):
Have some good times with the Empire, but that deep down,
if you if you really feel something is wrong, doing
something about it will be coming home to yourself that
that will finally feel like the right thing.

Speaker 8 (55:44):
To do to me.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
That's like, is it okay that I enjoyed this? Save
it for your therapi, save it for your therapist. But
I get it, like we've all been there, right, but
we're here to do a thing right.

Speaker 6 (56:00):
Doing the thing.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Yeah, I will say doing the thing.

Speaker 6 (56:02):
I do not disagree with Jason. We had quite a
lot of fun talking about that moment on the recap.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
But I will say I think it speaks to one
of the things I love the most in these kind
of stories. It's very Claudia Gray Lost Stars.

Speaker 6 (56:13):
It's very kind of like it's this notion of like it's.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
The clerk's conundrum that they raised in that movie, you know,
forty years ago whenever that came out now because we're
all old, But like, who is working on the Death Star?
Like when they blew up the Death Star? Aren't there
a bunch of contractors there who probably don't even have
a choice. Are there a bunch of enslaved people there working?
Are there a bunch of children who were literally picked
up from their planets and stolen and turned into stormtroopers?

(56:39):
Like if you start thinking about the real collateral damage,
you realize that nothing is as you know, it's a
lot more complicated than a gold medal at the end
of a New Hope, and I mean at the end
of her Return of the Jedi. But I also think,
like I loved that little moment where she is aware

(56:59):
that she shouldn't have been having fun because it's a
fucking Nazi shit. But guess what, she's also a human
being who probably like made friends with people and was
able to make the best of what she did. And
I think those little lines are so so real because
it's like you said, Jason, keep that in the group chat,
message that to your friends, like it's not you don't
need to tell this random rebel, but luckily he is

(57:20):
Cassie and Andel, and he gives you the best speech
of your life, like you're never gonna forget that.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
I feel the same way about in terms of world
being about For me, it's that emotional territory of Joelle
put it best, like the in the Star Wars movies, right,
everybody's a fucking adventure. You never ever, ever, for one
moment get the feeling that anybody's actually afraid or nervous
or wondering like is this gonna work? Whereas there's every

(57:51):
character in this story on different levels, it's like, fuck,
did I I didn't know that it would mean doing this? Likeman,
is like, know what would mean? I have to be
okay with the murder of my former boyfriend and I
just have to pretend I knew nothing about the fact

(58:11):
that he's going to drop off the face of the earth,
right this person that I cared about, Or it's it's
this you know, imperial worker who's like, fuck, I kind
of like liked my time here. Even though I agree
that this is fine, I'm doing this, but like, am
I doing the right thing? Is this going to work?
Is this going to come back on me? Going to think?

Speaker 4 (58:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:29):
And I think that emotional territory of what did I
get myself into? This is the right thing? But is
it the cost too high? Is is really really rich?

Speaker 2 (58:41):
You know?

Speaker 1 (58:42):
I think? And it's there's a moment where Luthen where
they're talking around it. It's one of the you know,
the tone zone pen is so good because a lot
of times, you know, these are spies, So they're talking
about a thing, but they're talking around it, and they're
at the wedding and mon is saying Tayte freaking out
he's kind of extorting me. He's suggesting that he might

(59:04):
need more money or something to protect himself. I don't
I don't know what to do. And Luthan is like, really,
you don't know what to do. You don't know what
to do.

Speaker 6 (59:15):
You don't you do it?

Speaker 1 (59:17):
He says, he I think he she and then she
under picks up what he's putting down. This means you're
your guy's gonna have to go away, like we're gonna
have to do him in somehow. And she's like, I'm shocked,
and he says, I'm shocked.

Speaker 8 (59:32):
You're shocked.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Yeah, And it's that real come to Jesus, like what
did you think we were doing?

Speaker 4 (59:39):
You know?

Speaker 1 (59:39):
What do you what do you think? Yeah? And it's
that real reckoning with the cost. The cost is here's
this person that you like. You generally like this person.
We're going to kill them to keep this whole because
we're in it to win it. We're not in it
to or a few hits and walk away and go

(01:00:01):
vacation on the on the beach planet. We're here to
actually win the thing.

Speaker 6 (01:00:06):
And that means we're probably never gonna see the win.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Yeah, And that means a lot of other people maybe
that you like, are not going to see the win.
And it's those moments where characters are reckoning with the
cost that is you've never seen that in Star Wars
before on this level on this and maybe in the
comics some of the comics are maybe in some of
the books, but like not like this on the big

(01:00:29):
on a screen where everything looks amazing, and that is
the stuff that has really captured me about this show.

Speaker 8 (01:00:35):
Completely agreed.

Speaker 6 (01:00:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's really fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
I mean, let's look at what some some things Aaron
thought as as as a person watching this show.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
The discord is always gang live, he cannot live.

Speaker 6 (01:00:53):
They love going in the discord.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
Okay, He's gonna make a point though that I think
we're all gonna agree with it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Yea. Cyril's mom, Edie, the greatest Star Wars villain since Thorn.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
I I love her.

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
She's incredible.

Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
It's the fact that she's so tactfully like it's one
thing if you're a bit and you're just hyper unaware
of it, but she know that and it's immediately like, Okay,
I won't be the most annoying possible thing to Cirial like.

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):
You're doing this so intentionally, it's so mean.

Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
But I mean, listen, I have a lot of issues
with Dada, but her getting her man's ship in order
when he is just literally collapsing on the bed.

Speaker 4 (01:01:41):
He threw himself like a Victorian woman off the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Cyril's got the vapors.

Speaker 6 (01:01:48):
I've got the vapis, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
I think as well, something that I thought was really
cool at the premiere, the actressho places Dandro was like, please, guys,
just remember she's a fascist, right, But I think that
what Tony does so brilliantly here is shows how, you know,
normal people inverted commas like can get a job in
like a really boring government job that ends up becoming

(01:02:15):
a pipeline to true fascism. And he's showing here like, hey, yeah,
maybe this person does have relationships, maybe they have their
own version of a moral compass whatever that is, but
they're still a fascist. Like this is the it's you know,
we we you know, we had a name for people
who voted for the Nazis, that voted because they cared
about their job, or they cared about money or blah

(01:02:38):
blah blah. And they said in Germany, Nazi it's fucking Nazis.
It doesn't matter, You're still doing it, you know. So
I think I think the Deirdre Edie Cyril stuff I've
been I was surprised by how much I was into
the Cyril storyline this season.

Speaker 5 (01:02:52):
Aaron dropped the letter from Windles in the Discord, which
is pretty good, or he says, man if I'd an
audience reaction to Dandre to be fascinating, like he is
an unapologetic fascist from the first second we see her,
and people, really we have a hard time processing that
this pretty blond lady is exactly what she seems. I
think Tony Giloa has done an amazing job playing off
our expectations for what a fascist actually absolutely yes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
And I also think by showing that a fascist can
have a relationship and be in love, as fucked up
as that relationship is, is another great reality check of like, yeah,
somebody can feel these normal things, but they can still
be enacting like horrific things on people around the world.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
I think part of the issue that we did, you know,
we're bringing a real world term fascism into Star Wars, right,
and part of the problem is that like, Okay, you
say that someone's a fascist. It's true, they're a hard
working government bureaucrat, okay, and you call them a fascist.

(01:03:54):
That The problem that star Wars and Or is kind
of like grappling in a metaw way, is like how
do you match your words to action? Yes, because it's
it's part of I think the problem big like capital
letters quotes, is that we throw these terms around there

(01:04:16):
technically correct, but because action never follows the seriousness of
the term, everything loses meaning. And I think that's part
of like what the what we're getting at with Deirdre.
She's a girl boss, she's got ambition.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
She's doing a thing in a male centric landscape, and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
She's succeeding, and she's she's like unafraid to be like
ambitious and to be like I'm going for it, and
those are all ideals that we like, and so it's
hard to then match what she is to how we
feel about what she's doing or even And I think

(01:05:00):
part of it is that when you like to call
someone a fascist or an imperial or whatever in this
world is to say like it's almost like cross a
threshold and say like now I have to stand in
opposition to this person. When really we did. Like a
lot of people are like parent and they don't want to.

Speaker 4 (01:05:17):
I don't want to.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
I'm gonna like engaging with that term means like I
have to take a stand, and I don't want to
take a stand. And I think a lot of like
how people feel about Deirdre is muddled in that same way.
And I think that's part of what makes it really interesting.
She's got all these traits that that that we in
real life in a more normal time with like in

(01:05:40):
a more normal context with lawed, but she's doing it
in service to like the worst project in the fucking galaxy.

Speaker 5 (01:05:47):
She's also like an empathetic character, like we get her
backstory here, yeah with uh she was raised by the
empire of an orphan who's raised by the empire, so
like that shades in so much of who Deja is,
Like you understand, like, oh, this like radical devotion is
like a parent, Like this is all you know. There
is nothing outside of this and the only way to

(01:06:08):
prove yourself within this organization is to climb the ladder.
And she's found something that nobody else has. It's not
something she really needs to fight for other than to
like try to get this little bit of information. If
she can find her guy, her spy, then she's golden
in the eyes of the only thing that really has
value to her, or her shown value within herself. I

(01:06:29):
think that is, you know, just from a character perspective,
You're like, Wow, I love this character. I want to
follow her all over it like what she doing. And
I think maybe that's where a lot of people are
getting tripped up. I'm not sure if everyone loves Deirdre
the Fascist. I think people are interested, like, what is
this woman gonna do next?

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
She says, yah, yeah she is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
I will say in the last season A season one,
I was not particularly interested in several and I felt
like Deirdre was just like an antagonist, right, like she's
just hunting them down. But actually, this first three episodes
I felt like they built them both out so well
that now I am very invested in those characters and
where they will go, because there is chaos coming to

(01:07:08):
the galaxy, and these people are all living in the
incoming chaos.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Here's what's great about the serial Dear dear relationship. He's
the boot liquor and she's the boots.

Speaker 6 (01:07:20):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, that's the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
That's why it works. He is this idealistic like, oh
the Empire. Wow, cool, we're hunts. I got to hunt spies.
If you do your job well and you're lucky enough,
you might get to hunt a spy too. And by
the way, my girlfriend and by the way, my girlfriend
hunts spies all the time. And yeah, and it's that

(01:07:48):
dynamic that makes them just fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Utterly fascinating to watch. I'm excited to see what happens.
Let's talk Aaron producer.

Speaker 6 (01:07:56):
Aaron before we go, had a question and I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
To tell you the Saron, with your pure innocent heart,
that you put this question in here. Aaron said, what
happened with Cinta and take Cob Is she still working
for Lutheran?

Speaker 6 (01:08:08):
Do we think mon can clear that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
She's killing that mother budy assassin. She's coming killing that guy?

Speaker 5 (01:08:21):
Do send her to kill and Or? At the end
of season one, Like that's her role, That's why she
goes back to Ferris is to kill Andor.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Which is so funny, like she's just a total badass
and obviously she's gonna kill Tay. Like sorry, guys, loose lips,
loose lips, sink ships, and in this case of even.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
This suggestion of loose lips, said Tay has only merely
been suggested.

Speaker 4 (01:08:45):
Lips was flapping at the park. Guy, don't even worry
about it.

Speaker 5 (01:08:53):
And then, well, you see who gives me the most money?
So this is you're playing the game terribly and it's
bothering me.

Speaker 6 (01:09:01):
Yes, Jason, plug your letterbox? Where can people follow you?
I love the list you made.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
We're gonna link to it in the show notes. It's
such a fucking good list. It was blowing my mind.
We've talked a lot about classic cinema. We're going to
try and keep bringing those references as the show continues,
because we're sure that more of them will come. Tony
is not He's a student of cinema clearly. So yeah, Jason,
what is it? How do people follow it? What's on it?

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
I am just good? You know? Go to search me
on letterbox. I'm an ETW three r K on letterbox,
or you can search my name. I made a list
called Indoor Season two Syllabus or how to Resist a Vampire.
It's got a variety of movies on there that you
can check out. I'll give you some of them Casablanca, Roam,
Open City, a Man Escape, a lot of French on here,

(01:09:45):
which I think is apt and ending with rogue one
of course, so check that out on Letterbox next week.
On ext Revision Tuesday, we're heading back to Jackson Hole
for the third episode of the Last of Us. Wednesday
we'll have our recap of episodes four, five and six
command Or season two, and then Thursday, we're deep diving

(01:10:06):
into the misfit heroes of Marvel's upcoming Thunderbolts. That's it
for this episode.

Speaker 6 (01:10:11):
Thanks for listening, Goodbye.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie
Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kletman.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wag.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi our Discord moderate them