November 26, 2024 • 58 mins
Always with you, sis.
Jason and Rosie react to the beautiful finale of Arcane. From the battlefield to the dance floor, there was a LOT that happened in these final three episodes, and our hosts share their read on the show, insights from the creators, and what parts hit us the hardest. Our Xtras hosts Aaron, Abu, and Joelle join to talk about the pacing, which storylines we expect to continue in the future, the MANY many easter eggs placed along the way, which character left Jason wanting more, and of course, the jail scene. To close out our coverage of Arcane, everyone picks which character they would choose to main if we were jumping into a match of League of Legends after watching Arcane.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Look Out for Yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Warning. Today's episode contained spoilers for the series for now,
the final three episodes, the last chapter.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The last time you will ever listen to Enemy by
Imagine Dragons, it's gonna happen. Hold on this time. Maybe
that's it for Arcane.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So if you haven't watched that, then really listen to
Dan Reynolds to Imagine Dragons look Out for Yourself, Go
back watch.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Those and come back here. Hello. My name is Jason Concepcion.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And I'm Rosy Night, and welcome back to Revision of
the podcast, where.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
We dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, colleagues, and
pop culture.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Coming from IRA podcast will bring you three episodes a week,
every Tuesday, every Thursday, with an extra episode every single Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Whoa And In today's episode, we are looking at the
Arcane season two finale, episode seven A and nine at three,
But really we'll be talking about feelings of full seasons
and of course we'll be tapping in the producer panel
coming straight from Kilt Over or Zo one, depending on
how they're feeling. Well, are you lighting now now United?
Now spoilers, but yeah, first we're gonna do some speed
(01:36):
recaps and then we're gonna be talking about our feelings
about this absolutely wild show and.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
What we feel now.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It's it's come to an end for now.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Next up the recap Okay Arcane Season two, the final chapter,
the last three episodes. Episode seven, Pretend like It's the
first time. Episode eight, Killing is a cycle an Episode
nine The Dirt under Your Nail.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Starting with episode seven, Echo awakens in an alternate timeline
where being the Gang's heights from episode one was successful
and the Hex tech was never invented. But get ready
to be sad, guys, Violet died on the job. Himerdinger
has already been there for like a thousand plus days.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So he's doing.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
He's like, He's like, don't worry, Echo, You'll love it here.
And why will he love it here? Well, this is
essentially a world where both Zorn and Powder are in
a very good place. Band is still alive. There's all
kinds of people here that Echo hasn't seen for a
long time, and Echo and Powder share a connection here
(02:44):
that we didn't necessarily get to see, which I was
definitely discussing. But basically, Echo finds shards of hex crystals
and gets Powder to help him and Heimdinger create a
machine that allows him to go back in time four seconds,
which is Echo's game power. So that was a big
(03:04):
deal to have a z drive.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I want to shed out a very funny moment in
which Echo realizes the four seconds is the limit because
Heimerdinger gets blown up every time they go past four seconds.
And heimer Dinger and he's like, okay, so that's the limit.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Ye Like, how did you know?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And he's like, ah, and you We've just seen his
face be like melted off in the most So Powder
and Echo share a romantic night and they kiss, which
in this world they are clearly already romantically entangled. But
as the title of the episode is, Echo says to Powder,
pretend it's the first time they go and have a party,
(03:44):
which is kind of like a it's to celebrate innovators
within Zorn. And while they do that, Himerdinger is on
his usual wild shit like just upgrading the machine on
his own, ends up sacrificing himself, not in the most
terrific way possible. So this is the first of many
people in this three recaps that I will ask are
they dead or are they in the multiverse. I'm saying
(04:04):
it may be multiverse because I love this little guy.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
He disappears. I think he's in the moment.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
He disappears, and he sends echo back to the right
timeline after the Arcane anomaly. We then see that Jace
has been in a different timeline where Hextech has destroyed
all of Piltover and a hooded Mage leads him through
this kind of crumbling as Aaron put in this little
cheeky eldermring joke here Fara Mizzoula to a corpse and
(04:32):
Jason's own warped tammer. So he is like, what is
going on? And this is bad? And then he knows
like I've got to stop my bff slash maybe boyfriend
Victor at any cost. And we're on to episode eight.
We see mel awakening. She's glowing gold. She's got this
really cool kind of markings all over her. She meets
the Sorcerer from the Black Rose, who says, well, guess
(04:54):
what you are? Actually a mage? Very rare, we love,
it's very rare. You're in the gym half made. You
can basically reflect other people, you can see what they're thinking,
you can use their powers. And your mom sucks in
case you didn't realize your mum. And Bessa has actually
been hiding and protecting you because she sees you as
like the ultimate weapon, and she's like the arcane is
(05:15):
waking up, people are messing with it, and you gotta
go back and help save your city. Am Bessa and
Victor joined forces because now uh hex Tech. Victor wants
to get to the hextgates, get to the anomalies and
for some mysterious reason, and am Bessa wants an army,
and thankfully, Victor's actually turned his followers into like an
(05:35):
I robot army.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
He's like Ultron exactly.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
He's using a hive mind to turn his followers into
sexy like slick white and gold Hextech robots. Victor attacks
Jason Mell in the chamber with one of his eye
robots and like they can even though Jas is now
sexy bearded, Jace with a big hammer and he's got
a cool leg after he fought through his alternate timeline,
(05:58):
which I have to say, going just skipping back quickly
to episode one, Jace is in his own timeline and
he is like being tormented in that time. I saw
I saw this in a room with like two thousand
people at least like probably sixty percent were women, and
believe that every single one of them was like cheering
on as this man got tort Absolutely, he was just
(06:19):
absolutely struggling.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
You know, in the scene where he makes his pitch
to the leaders have piltover and so on, there's a gasp.
And the gasp I think is not because he's unveiled,
you know, Victor's one of Victor's army soldiers, and what
it looks like. I think it's because they're like, damn,
he's looking good. He's looking hot.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Landry, my friend who is the number one Jace hater,
when he came out with that long hair and the beard,
she was like, uh oh, he's kind of eating and
I was like, no, I know it's true.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
He sucks.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
How can he do this to us? But Melon, Victor,
I mean, Jason Mel they can barely combine, like their
powers are not anything against I robot. So we're gonna
see what happens next. Jinks turns out she's alive, Buye's
very happy, goes to see Caitlyn. Why the fuck is
Junior Officer Maddy Nolan? Then Or wants to see her.
(07:10):
Turns out more on her later. Jinks gave herself up
to be arrested and is in a prison cell. And
I have to say I did not appreciate how many
weird shots they were of Jinkx's gross feet in this section,
Like I will rewatched this so many times, and for
some reason there's so many shots of her dirty feet.
Ve goes to free Jinks and is like, Caitlyn, go away,
(07:31):
I'm sick of you. Obviously, Jinks gets one up on
her sister, beats her up leaves and she's like, I'm done.
I'm walking out. I've been speaking to my dead silkoa
dad in my head, and he basically said, sometimes you've
got to walk away and stop fighting. Kate comes in
and she's like, hey, I knew your sister was going
to lock you in this prison, and you know what,
(07:51):
I gotta tell you something. I've been kind of like
sleeping and buyers like I don't fucking care, come over
here and my muscly arms covered in tattoos, and then
we get and quite extended and unexpected. We were wondering
are they gonna kiss? Well? Guess what. More than that,
it was great, and I would I was sweat I know,
(08:14):
it's like they go for it. And I will tell
you something, I've maybe never felt more powerful than being
in that room that my friend correctly called the lesbian Convention.
When they played this scene on the big screen, the
screams were so powerful that I felt like I could
have powered myself up for like twenty years.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
It was it was It was steamy, it was crazy.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
It was steamy, And I think they did a nice
job of being steamy without being like explicit, because they
still understand who the audience is for this show.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Jase.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Then we get him making his plea to the leaders
have piled over and so on, and he's like, you
gotta fight the fighters coming here, and we can't keep
fighting each other. Even though I did think that was
the point of the show. Just side note there. We'll
talk about that more.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Late to the point of the game game as well.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
No, now we gotta come together to fight cool Victor
and his sw is like evil robots. Some people leave,
some people don't. We then start the final episode with
Jinx and she has got one of her iconic little
grenades and she just keeps trying to blow herself up
in the last drop, but echoes turns up and he's like, bro,
(09:20):
don't do this, and we see him like rewind time
a few times and he eventually is like.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Let's talk.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
We then just go straight into the battle. They are like,
we need some war we need some enemies, and it's happening.
Caitlyn and her team attempt to ambush am Bessa and
her kind of Noxy and warriors. They're captured because guess why.
Turns out Junior Officer Maddy Nolan, who's been keeping Caitlin
warm at night, has been working for AMBSSA all alone.
(09:48):
Oh baby, Mel arrives, saves Caitlyn and in doing so
kill like Maddy Nolan is gonna shoot Caitlyn in the
head after saying I appreciated your and Mel puts up
a shield and it ricochets and shoots Junior Officer Maddie
Nolan in the head. And wow, the way people were
(10:09):
cheering when this young woman died. You couldn't believe it. Ah.
Caitlin and Mel have this great battle where they battle
and Bessa. I love that Mel overcomes am Bessa and
Bessa gets sent to the Black Rose dimension, where we're
kind of seeing her chained up very hell raiser, very
center bite style, but Mel actually manages to save her
mother from that dimension she passes away, but finally she
(10:33):
says to her, you are the wolf, like you are
the next Noxie and leader. Then, just when things are
looking really bad, we've already lost bearded best friend of VI,
who we learned his name was Louris rip Lorris. We
barely knew yee, we barely knew ye. We're seeing lots
of deaths from Piltover, the brave people who came up
(10:54):
from Zorn to fight alongside the people who've been oppressing them.
They're dying. But guess what. Then we get huge moment
where Jink shows up in her little air machine with
echo in the firelights and they telling the tide of
the battle. We at a lot of great echo moments.
We get sadly, then we find Warwick, who has been
(11:15):
victified and is like a giant hex tech werewolf now
battles Jinks, and by then Victor arrives with his new redesign.
It's really sick. It's reminiscent of the game, but in
my opinion, I really love the choices they made with it.
He's left his little galaxy space where he's been hanging
out with Sky and talking about, you know, making everything perfect.
(11:39):
Confronts Jason. He's like, bro, I gotta end all conflict
and suffering. And even though you might no longer be
part of this home erotic friendship, I am very glad
to see you. I love you. Echo uses a zero
drive to outmaneuver Victor in his army. He's going back
in time, he's pulling things. Jason, Victor commune with not
(12:00):
Arcane in this kind of galactic universal space, which I love.
This is actually my favorite visuals of the season, or
this part of the season, and it's revealed, of course,
in case you didn't guess that the hooded Mage that
saved Jase was actually an alternate timeline Victor and his
pursuit of perfection just led to him being like endlessly lonely,
(12:21):
and in all timelines, the only person he could trust
to help convince him to stop was Jase because they're
in love obviously. And then together they basically take the
piece of hex tech that Jase and that Victored once
given to Jace. They hold it together and Victor says,
you gotta leave, and Jay says, no, we finish this together,
(12:44):
and then they disappear into what seems into the gem.
So again, are they dead? Is it multiversal? I'm saying
it's multiversal. Also, guys, in case you haven't seen the
Christopher Nolan Tenant movie, this is basically the Tenant I
just want to say, it's just Tenant. Then Warick aka
Vander aka Victified Vanda attacks me. They're in the kind
(13:06):
of tunnel system of Piltover, and Jink saves her, but
as Vi grabs her, Jinks takes the hex Tech out
of her gauntlets, causing them to fall apart, and she
falls down with Warwick into the kind of tunnels and says,
you know, I will always be together in any world.
(13:27):
Ye holds them and it doesn't It doesn't happen. And
then this is the big question again, is Jink's really dead?
Many people stopping this seeing her, seeing these kind of
purple shooting out into the tunnels. We end with essentially
like a prologue that lets us know mel is taking
her mother's place. We see singed daughters still alive. Savika
(13:49):
joins the council, and now I have to say, you
don't know how much the lesbians loves Sevika bro Every
time she's on screen, she never had one word, and
every single cosplay girl in there is screaming. It was fantastic.
Kaitlin and Bay are together. Caitlin is now got a
cool eyepatch by is humming the song we first heard
Powder singing in episode one, and it looks to me
(14:11):
like Caitlyn is essentially looking at the plans of the
Piltover tunnel system the Piltover.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
And they're going to do some sort of reforms to
the structure.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
And I also wonder if she is looking for Jinks. Right,
Jinks knows those tunnels as that was where Jinks fell,
and maybe Kate is trying to find her. And then
we get at the end, Kate asked Via, you're still
in this battle. You're still in this fight, and then
we see a kind of airship fly off, letting us
know that there are like more tales to be told
(14:43):
in this world. So they did not bury their gaze.
Good for them, and we if you're worried about that,
you know some of our discord word they did not.
You do get a gay happy ending here, and yeah,
that is the end of our recaps, and I have
to say, obviously I got to watch this in the cinema.
It was a amazing I will say I do think
Netflix should have done like a Disney style Star Wars
(15:04):
cinematic release for these I think they would have made
a lot of money. I think people would have really
gotten to enjoy some of the more epic moments. But yeah,
it was great. And I guess we're going to toss
to a message from our sponsors before we call in
the newly united Piltover and so On producers Panel to
talk about our feelings about the finale of.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, Yeah, and we're back.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
We're back, baby.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Please welcome to the chamber the producer panel, abou Jowel
and Aaron to discuss the series finale question.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Mark of our finale, I believe of our but I
think we know that there is going to be more
stories in this kind of room, Terror, wild and clearly
you know, a league of legends.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Once they figure out their line producer issues and how
to budget the show responsibly, I think they will create
more shows. It only makes sense that they will do.
So let's talk about our favorite Let's talk about.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Like the what what worked?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I think the pacing obviously is going to be a
big point of conversation, but I think.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
For me it has been with the audience.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Has been with the audience. I think the a common
thread in a lot of the comments about the end
of season two the end of the series has been God,
it felt really rush, and it did feel rushed. I
will say that what worked for me, though, was that
they concentrated on emotional climaxes and emotional beats. It's very
(16:54):
interesting to me that like the plot beats and the
emotional beats kind of never intersect, but the fact that
they gave the emotional stuff such a balanced airing in
the finale made it feel ultimately satisfying and overcome the
pacing issues. And I also think that thematically the show
really hangs together around a common idea which seems to
(17:20):
me to be not quite forgiveness, but like letting go.
You know, Yea, there's clearly a difference between forgiveness and
letting go, but it's more about, Hey, bad stuff happened,
we did bad stuff. I'm just gonna move past it now.
There's certain things and maybe I can't forgive people before, yeah,
but I'm but whatever that looks like to me, I'm
(17:41):
going to move past that and move on. So I
think that was what really carried it for me, and
I was ultimately quite satisfied, even though I mean it's
I feel like, if you like the show, it's impossible
to come out of episode nine and not be like,
we need more.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Where's the rest of it?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
But ultimately I'm quite satisfied. Your favorite elements for you, Rosie.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
I would definitely say, just like, the emotional beats did
really hit for me, and even some of the stuff
that I know we will talk about, like that first episode.
In this episode seven, I was definitely a little bit confused,
and at first I thought it was a lack of
understanding of the law, but actually I think everyone was
a little bit confused with that kind of alternate universe episode.
But for me, I think that is the episode I
(18:27):
will go back and revisit the most, and I think
it hammered home some emotional beats that would then come
to the four later on.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I inverted happy ending. They gave you the happy ending
in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Exactly, and I was happy where Kate and Bayer's story ended.
As somebody who was not particularly invested in Jake, I
actually found the Jake and Victor stuff to be pretty
profound by the end, and also like I am a Tenant.
I'm a Tenant apologist because that movie is gay as
hell and there's about two men who love each other
and go through time to just be together, and this
(19:00):
is the same thing. So that was good for me.
I love Echo. I thought that.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, criminally, criminally low amounts of eggs exactly. I needed
so much more Echo in this series.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I do feel like by the end, I was like,
I feel like if you're if, the show is a
journey of them kind of learning what works and what
doesn't work or what they want to see. I do
think that by the end, having Echo getting to be
that big hero that really worked for me. I love drinks,
so I'm definitely of the mind of like there's fun
to be had looking at whether or not she died
(19:31):
while still getting that emotional beat. So for me, it
was the emotional beats. And I really want to ask
a Boot because we didn't have you on the last
part and you're desperately missed by our discord users, how
do you feel about the final three episodes?
Speaker 5 (19:45):
I loved it so so, so so much, like I'm
working away with it, just still processing my feelings. Like
I tweeted yesterday, I was like, I'm going to need
a couple of weeks and a couple of rewatches to
figure out how I actually feel about the show, because
I'm left just astounded. I think the visual storytelling is
top notch stuff, some of the best I've ever seen.
(20:06):
I think the emotional gut punches rushed, sure, effective, very
very I've walked away just feeling quite blown away, you know,
by the show. You know, the more I think about it,
the more knits I can pick. But the feelings I
(20:28):
walked away with after watching these last three episodes were
unlike any other animated show I can think of in
recent memory. So I don't know. I'm a total stand
for this show despite its faults, and I loved nearly
every aspect of at top to bottom.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I do have to say I did come at the end.
I did like look at my friend and be like, Okay,
I do think it's a really interesting situation because I
do feel like by the end of the episode, I
was like, you can go back to calling Arcane the
show a masterpiece, just because of the they managed to
get emotional beats to hit. But it's interesting because it
is also not a perfect show. So I think there's
(21:05):
an interesting conversation to be had around it can both
be a masterpiece that really works and just absolutely hits,
but it can also be something where you're like, oh,
what would it have been like to do this? But
I think part of that is actually why this show
is so unique because there's never been a show like this.
So there is gonna be those growing pains, and there's
(21:26):
gonna be things that are like, the highs are so
high and then you're like, wait a minute, but a
normal show would do this. But you're like, but also
if this show had been made normally, it would have
never been the show that we got. So it's like
this really complex space, Aaron, how about you?
Speaker 6 (21:40):
So one of the reasons I think a Boo your
your comments spot on with the emotional storytelling really hit
even despite the pacing, is because this show did an
incredible job of building character and focusing on characters and
making you care about damaged, imperfect characters. Jinx someone who
(22:00):
you know. Throughout the recaps of season one and the
first two acts of season two, we talk about her
committing mass murder and we still care about her as
a person.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
Really, and then you introduce you introduced Issha and some
backstory and episode seven with with the alternate timeline is
beautiful and we fall in love with her again. And
they did such a good job I think of focusing
on characters and that, like that storytelling really really worked
for me throughout all two seasons despite the pacing.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, Joel, how about you? What wa wah whah.
Speaker 7 (22:38):
Man the beautiful Okay, wait, we're focusing what we're costumes
stunning lesbians? Yeah, I loved them. Characters really fun to follow.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
I'm out, did anyone follow Did anything jump out to
you in the finale three episodes Joe out that you
were like surprised by as someone who comes into this
with a little bit more critique, Was there anything where
you were like, Okay, actually that was kind of a banger,
or this is a character I wish I'd seen that.
Speaker 7 (23:09):
I think the Ambssa and her daughter storyline was shockingly good, Like,
I think that came together in such a fantastic way,
especially because I found myself all episodes of I'm like,
I need to know what happened to her? Is she Okay,
she lost forever, like where did she go for her back?
For her to come back in such a strong way,
I think she probably has the strongest character arc of everybody,
(23:33):
just from where she started to how she changed to
where she evolved to at the end. So yeah, I
thought that was done really well, and it's sort of exciting,
I think for video game players, knowing that that world's
gonna be fleshed out later, to have a space where
I jump off into.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Also, am Bessa is the one character from the show,
so I was.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Going to say the game because everyone else is getting.
My understanding is they've already started adding skins for everyone else,
but am best is actually a fully blown.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Character introduced like last month or something.
Speaker 7 (24:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah, I was like, that's an interesting choice. I'm very intrigued.
And then I saw Ambssa in the finale battle with
those like crazy like cars on chains, and I was like, oh, okay, no,
I get it, Like this is like who wouldn't want
to play as that character? Okay, Jason and Joel, I
know you two both have like heavy critiques on pacing,
(24:24):
so let's talk about that, like you two go go
deep into it.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Listen when the producers tell you, as they have in
numerous interviews since the kind of bombshell Hollywood Reporter story
came out, it was a variety, sorry forget, I.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Think it was. I think it was THHL. But anyway,
that was a trade expose.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, correct saying that, No, it was always going to
be two seasons. That's come on, there's no. I don't
believe it. I don't believe that to be the case.
I think they were clearly thinking there was going to
be more, and I think it tells in the storytelling.
I think that they saved it with incredible emotional home runs,
(25:08):
like it's interesting that to me, the stuff that was
surprising was more the misses, like the diversions, the time jumps, yeah,
the alternate universes, and the stuff that was not surprising
was also kind of like the most for me, the
most resonant and emotionally satisfying, because it just tells you
they're like they recognized, Okay, we have to land the
(25:30):
Ambassa plane. Okay, we have to land the Kate and
V plane. Okay, we have to land the JINX and
V plane, and just understanding, like we have to give
people resolutions to these stories. Victor and Jason and they
did it, and to me, that was that managed to
(25:52):
overcome any issues that they had with the pac which
is really if you want to talk about like kind
of a master it's like accomplishing time is accomplishing that
because it really was, like you do, the more you
think about it, you really do feel how rushed it was,
but it was. It's the hard stuff, it's the gut
(26:13):
punch stuff. It's the emotional stuff that really carries. And
I keep thinking about for me, the theme that forgiveness
were moving on. Theme I think is why it's so
resonant to me is I've been watching a lot of
couple's therapy on Showtime on the Bleared Showtime Network, and
(26:34):
Orna the Therapist at one point there's she has a
line that I can't stop thinking about in the in
the current season where there's like a polyque triplet and
they come in and uh and the main the anchor
guy of that trio is like airing all these grievances.
(26:59):
You know, she did this to me first, and then
I did this, and then of course Ben and she
stops him and she's like, it doesn't matter who did
what first, and he's like, but I think it does,
and he's and she's like, no, it you know, in
a court of law it matters, But in a relationship,
trying to unwind who did what to who first is
(27:19):
actually tremendously toxic, and you can't ever escape what's happening.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Because then you're basically always trying to get the uppa hand.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, and I think that message in this show to
me just you know, in a show about two like
warring societies who can't get it out of each other's
way and can't stop thinking, well, they're doing this to us,
so we have to do this and they and then
the other society is like, well, they attacked us, so
clearly we must respond. And the only way out of
(27:46):
that is to just go you know, I'm not I'm
not saying what happened was okay, and I'm never going
to get over it, but I'm also not going to
be bound by the rules of like responding to that.
And that worked on a societal level and the show
and it worked on an interpersonal level. And I thought
that was just a tremendously trenchant and resonant emotional beat
(28:09):
that they just nailed and managed to overcome the piecing
issues for me.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
And I'm gonna set up I just want people to understand.
You know Joel from the New Girl podcast, You know
Joel from Fake Doctor's Real Friends, But do you know
that Joel is also like a storied entertainment critic who
has been watching TV for a very long time, who
is on MPR talking about movies. So believe when she
(28:34):
comes into this and tells you the show has pacing issues,
She's got the chops, She's done the work, and she
does have the juice. So Joel, tell us what did
it work? From a television critic level?
Speaker 4 (28:47):
First Wow, introduction?
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Thank you?
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (28:51):
So I will say I agree with everybody that it's
sort of a miracle that what they pulled off managed
to be as entertaining as it did. Right, Like, I'm
giving you impossible too, Like I'd get back in the
boat with these characters even though this was a train wreck.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Absolutely the same. It's fun.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
You're like, oh, these characters are so exciting.
Speaker 7 (29:11):
Even if the film structurally doesn't quite work, I'm still
invested in this world and in these characters, and that's great.
I think if I take a step back as like
a person who loves video games haven't played this video game,
but I do love video game then for a long time, especially,
I think mid As kids were like, Hey, wouldn't it
be great if all these cut scenes were actually a movie.
(29:31):
That would be really exciting cut scenes look so cool?
Star Wars the Old Republic Knights of the Eternal Throne
did it and it was amazing. But they did it
really well because you didn't get a lot of vocal acting.
What it was was like, here are these really cool
characters you like in a very dope setting, giving you
emotional beat after emotional beat that you can understand that's
really intrinsic to the lore of Star Wars, and it
(29:53):
was fabulous.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
I frequently rewatched this movie. It's so good.
Speaker 7 (29:57):
I think our kne sort of struggled with bringing a
story to the forefront. Like they have the dope scenery,
they have amazing characters who you love, who are vibrant
and fun, but then when you put them on a story,
it's really difficult to you know, you gotta articulately, you
gotta be saying one thing. It's it's a lot of
effort and work, and I think they developed a really
good job with a lot of this, but like, my god,
(30:19):
you can't and I'm sorry, you can't put a music
video in every episode. It just completely derails the pacing time.
If they had just removed those, I have four extra
minutes in every single episode to tell story as opposed
to a montage of images. It's such a freaking train
wrecktor show. And the songs were not good enough to
support stopping the show to be like, oh, sometimes I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
There's like two or three good songs arose. Yeah, but.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
Missus iffy for me, and I think my biggest takeaway
if I were, you know, to come in and give
critique before finalization, I would say, you don't need every
sci fi trope in your final act.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
We got robots, time travel, well.
Speaker 7 (30:57):
Were some of the other Oh, we got multiverses, Like
it was just so much to shoehorn in four episodes,
and also you're introducing new characters across the final act
of see this the second season of the show, it
felt it was too much to juggle successfully. We could
never throw all of those elements in and have a
(31:17):
storyline that makes sense. I mean, and because it's so
close to everything we've already compared it to Marvel and Ultron,
but you could also do a Spider Man, especially because
Echo looks a lot like malth Rollison character designed like
every time something new came up, I was like, Oh,
it feels like you're just sort of tipping into this.
It felt like you were feeling a Netflix algorithm, which
(31:38):
I don't know if that's the case or not, but
that was really an issue for me. I'll say, like I,
this level of lesbians is what I demand from all
of my TV so Aces you really nailed it, but
I do think it suffered for that. But surprisingly I
could see myself rewatching this.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Oh yeah, I definitely think that. I also speaking for
sure speaking of tropes, I want to bring in Arrow
and Aaron give us your theory on how like how
we have Star Wars being done in our arcane.
Speaker 6 (32:10):
Season two is basically the original trilogy of Star Wars.
Act one is episode four, Act two is episode five,
Act three is episode six, and I think everyone almost
entirely agrees that the strongest of the OG trilogy is Empire.
I think Act two was all of our favorite. We
had a lot of critiques at the end of Act
(32:31):
one and then Act two came in and we were like,
everything that we were worried about has been fixed. We
loved it the end with Warwick and the family coming together.
And then I think Act three had a lot of
resumes every empire. Yeah, and Act three had all this
resolution that was very nice and maybe not necessary. Also
(32:52):
we have like, you know, the bad guy saves like
turns around and saves the good guys.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Very Darth Empire.
Speaker 6 (33:00):
But like there was a lot that just felt like
it resolved for the sake of resolving. And also Heimer
Dinger gets fridged in the beginning of Act three al
a Yoda, but you know, there's a lot there.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
To die rather than just like can I just put
himself in the fridge?
Speaker 4 (33:21):
All men who are like, I'm done, It's fine.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Oh that is true.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I'm also what about the reveal that we're listening to
a Heimer Dinger. Yeah, okay, wait a second, this is hydrogen.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
The guitar that.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Is like, if you guys have not seen the James
Wand classic Aquaman, there is a similar visual musical gag
in that that literally just killed me and the and
in the movie when it in the movie that when
we realized that Heimerdinger was playing that guitar, I absolutely
lost my ship, Like that is one of the best
for me, okay a boo. I just want to know,
(34:02):
like what you are the one who like understands this
world the most, I think, and like, what are the
stories you want to see coming out of this? Now
we're here, now we're at the end, and we know
there's going to be more shows. What do you think
are the most likely things we're going to see coming
out of this and what do you personally want to see?
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Well, I think Jason, you put it perfectly. As someone
who loved both seasons of Arcane, I am still walking
away from episode nine going ugh, I wanted more, Where's
the rest of it? And I think that some of
that is very intentional. Naxis, for example, is almost guaranteed
going to be a part of this universe we're going
to explore further. In fact, I think Mel's storyline was
(34:45):
one that I was wanting left wanting with this that
was kind of the point next season because it felt.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
That feels like an obvious spill.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
It feels like mostly storyline was put in here to
introduce us the.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
Next show, to set up Axis.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Naxis show the showrunner, who's also one of the co
creators a Christian link from Riot Games. He did say
that in upcoming shows it will be nooxus Ionia and
Dematia are the places they want to explore. And I
think obviously a mal show, Naxia show, a Naxist show
that that seems like the obvious first stop for what
(35:24):
they would do next.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
I think so too. There's also a couple of other
easter eggs that I was finding. Again I have to
credit mostly Twitter and Reddit for this. I have not
played League of Legends in like over a decade, so
my knowledge is very out of date. But at the
end we see like the three eyed Raven not brand
that's actually hints towards another character, another hint toward a potential,
(35:47):
huge popular League of Legends character that.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Might show up in the future.
Speaker 5 (35:50):
So I think a lot of this season airing to
your point, especially with mel was seating like a League
of Legends cinematic universe, television universe of sorts.
Speaker 6 (36:01):
Helped by the fact that they don't show Jinx's body,
they don't show Jason Victor's body, Heimerdinger's body, like they're
all out there, right, they can come back.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
For and again once they figured out how to budget
a show responsibly.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
That was certainly I'm gonna look, I'm gonna say one thing. Yeah,
then this is They've said this a lot. They said
it at the premiere. I was actually very impressed by
how they came on stage of the premier and they
were like, yeah that article where they said we didn't
know what we were doing, we didn't And I was like, wow,
I think I love you guys. And then today I
was actually speaking to Christian Link for an IgM feature
that I'm doing, and he was saying, you know, honestly,
(36:38):
like the money all went to the animators, and they
want to keep making shows where the money goes to
the art. And I'm like, you know what, I want
you to have a better budget, but I also want
that mentality to be an animation and I want it.
I want people to keep getting paid. So I'm like,
can we do both?
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, I listen. I love that sentiment. I also feel
like in Hollywood and entertainment and tech whatever, or when
people say, oh, the money's going to the workers, I
want the receipts. So while I I tip my hat
to that, the significance of that. I also want to
(37:13):
know if that's true, because I kind of don't believe
it one hundred percent. And this is also a world
in which Blue Eye Samurai exists and is similarly as
excellent visually and didn't cost a quarter of a fucking
billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Very true. I will also say I do wonder if
part of the reason the money went to the animation
team and the people who created the visual language. It's
a French company, and I feel like the protections there,
like for Fortish and for those French workers, is probably
much higher, and as is probably the quality of life
from what we've heard of some of the FOURTIESH team.
But yeah, I mean I want them to learn how
(37:48):
to budget because I want to see loads more shows
in this universe. I also want to see, like I
always do, I want to know, like what does the
show look like when it has a budget closer to
Blue Eyed Samurai. What is it look like when you
let somebody who loves two D animation take it over?
Speaker 1 (38:03):
What does it look like?
Speaker 3 (38:04):
This has been a space for experimental animation, and I
would actually love to see each show have as much
of a unique visual language as Archett.
Speaker 6 (38:15):
That's something I really agree with Rosie, Like they proved
so many times that they could do alternate animation styles
throughout this season.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, take that and run with it.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
Don't feel every single show you put in this universe
has to have the exact same look as this, especially
if it's gonna cost a billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Imagine if him Dinger is in like a two D
one of Us, because he looks like a two D
Disney creature, Like, I want to see that. And also
I would add, honestly, just take Ja like a maybe
a movie or like a mini series with like a
couple of episodes like in and intermedia episodes that we
got a lot during COVID where it's kind of not
a full season of just like Jason Victor in that
(38:54):
kind of galactic arcade space. Okay. Also, big question I
had after coming out of this. Now, I've done my
research and I understand more what arcane as like magic
means in this world. But did you feel like you
guys understood what the arcane was by the end.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I think it's some sort of like a nexus or
a portal thing, but I don't really know.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
They believe in like an arcane magic in this world
and arcane is about that kind of ancient magic with
a with a less modern understanding. But I did think
it was really funny. I was actually by the end,
I was like, this is such a great like fuck
you to everything you learn about storytelling in TV, because like,
nobody knows what that means, even if you're the biggest
deepest arcane kind of lover or League of Legends. Aboo,
(39:45):
what do you think about the arcane? Like do you
feel like that's like a mystery to be solved? Do
you feel like they want you to look into what
that term means within the games? Like how do you
feel about that part of it?
Speaker 5 (39:56):
No, I don't think it's a mystery to be solved
at all, And I think expecting at all to ever
get answers about what the hurricane is is going to
leave you disappointed.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
I love that we need more mysteries like that in
fiction and in life.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
Yeah, I mean, I in fact, I don't I quite
I don't mind it. You know, I don't want like
a midi chlorine explanation of what the arcane is. I'm
fine with it being this wild, unreliable, magical catch all
that lets them do whatever the first.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
They want they want, you know, it keeps you with
the character.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
I'm fine with the arcane being elusive.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
They don't know what it is.
Speaker 7 (40:29):
You don't know what it is, but it's impacting their world. Bam,
great mcguffin set.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Let's go.
Speaker 6 (40:37):
Yes, speaking of characters, Jason, I think you need to
talk about Echo.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, let's let's talk about Echo.
What do you feel like?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
What?
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Easily one of my favorite characters coming out of this
final seasons, but I felt like I'd missed like three
episodes or something like I didn't. I had to come
into the group chat and be like, so am I
like not up to there? Like one another.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
Character who I think is getting his own show and
is intentionally why he got hero moments and.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Absolutely should because it just felt like so rich and
resonant when we when it really got moving in episode
eight with Echo's plot, I will say, you know, I
was like severely thrown when I put on episode seven
and I was like, yes, did I miss an episode?
Like what the fuck is happening? And it's not just
(41:27):
like the alternate universe stuff, It's that it seemed like
Echo and Powder Slash Jinks had a relationship that seemed
to me to like be based on stuff that I
had not seen and that I felt like I had missed.
And I mean, this is one of the examples of
(41:48):
the things that ultimately the show overcomes that, but that
that was specifically a moment that left me feeling like
and especially as Jinks as excuse me as echoes, you know,
skills and actions become crucial to turning the tide of
the conflict. It it it just felt like specifically that
(42:13):
I wanted I wanted more of it, Like where was
the rest of it? Where was that backstory? Like does
that exist anywhere? I want to know the basis of
those feelings between uh Echo and Powder. It's like that
is it? You know, there's certain like emotional motivational things
that I don't like Jace. What does Jace care about?
(42:35):
I don't actually know, and I don't give a shitt
that's it he cares about to the extent that it's like,
we need to stop Hexsteck, bro Hextech. The fucking barn
doors are open and Hexteck is running across the fields,
Like why are you still caring about stopping Hexteck?
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Now you.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Fucking way past time that you stop caring about stopping
hexs deck just over.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Feel accountable to yourself. You were the way you started this, bro.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
But with you know, when episode seven got underway and
then Echo and then it became clear what Echo's plan was,
I was just like, man, where has Echo been this
whole time? I feel like that's to me, the one
character where I'm just like criminally criminally low levels.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
I went back to season one because I was like,
wait a minute, did I miss this being seeded? Then
I will say I did ask about this. It's in
the ign thing. But like that specific thing, that was
something that Christian told me, and I think this is
something that makes Arcane unusual for better for worse. Whatever
he did tell me, he was like, that was just
(43:44):
a storyline they wanted to see. So they just wanted
to see what happened with these characters in that world.
And I think in a way that is what made
the show so widely accessible because it does tap into
this notion of like, well, what if we just did this,
Like the show.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Doesn't, Here's here's what really works about. There's a lot
of things that really work, But to me, character wise,
what really works about this show is it's operatically a
soap like. It's so high opera like and it totally
commits to shit, like, hey, what if these two actually
(44:20):
you're deeply in love in this like altered universe and
we've we're just gonna throw that out there.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Yeah exactly, Like, well if you it's very soap opera
because it does feel like one of those episodes of
like Days of Our Lives where something completely crazy would
happen and then at the end they'd be like it
was all a dream and you're just like, well, I
love getting this like fan pic episode where you kind
of get to explore this nice version of this fucked
up well.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
And I love that about it.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Now.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
It does leave me wanting a lot more, particularly from Echo,
but there are little moments like that all throughout this,
like when Kate is talking about Junior Officer Maddy Nolan
and is like, yeah, that was fun dub like she
was I was just you know, I was just with
her and believing every fucking terrible fascistic thing that she
(45:08):
that she was espousing, and honestly I was doing it
for the sex, you know, Like yeah, I was like
it's those kind of moments that are great, but yeah,
it's like Echo more and more, Echo, Please.
Speaker 6 (45:20):
When we did the rewatch of season one on extras,
A Boo and I and I think this was the
episode you were on, Rosie, we talked about the bridge
fight with Echo and Jinx and how it was this
beautiful recreation of them having a fight, like playing as kids.
But I was like, we didn't get that when they
were actually kids. And I wonder now if we had
replaced Milo and Clagger as much as I love them
(45:42):
with Echo early on and we got all that time
with Echo. I mean, Echo's the one who found the job.
We know that Echo could have gone on the job
with them and we could have gotten all this time.
I just wanted Echo and Powder like running around in
the background building stuff together.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Give me something like that exactly.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
I did go back and was like, this was not seated.
I didn't miss it.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
But I have to.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Say again, and I don't think I'm alone. I think
we're talking about this before we started recording. Episode seven
is probably gonna be the episode I rewatched the most
because it's just so beautiful to be in that Zorn
space and in this different vision of it and to
get to see Powder and to kind of get to
see what that world might have looked like. And I
think a lot of fans felt that way, So that
(46:25):
in itself, I guess, is a hint of like maybe
there is a world where we could have had a
whole season of that if this show had had five seasons.
You know, a boo, what do you think?
Speaker 5 (46:35):
I also wanted to shout out the visual storytelling in
episode seven in particular, because I think there's a lot
of perhaps I texted to you this to you guys earlier,
perhaps too much showing and not enough telling, But like
there's a lot of really excellent, subtle visual storytelling. There's
some obvious ones. For example, Powder has a streak of
pink and her hair yes bye bye. Vander has a
(46:58):
Vye tattoo on his wrist. If you like pause at
a certain moment, you can see it. There's all these
really excellent I mean, she's wearing the jacket. Powder is
also wearing, like the necklace thing and the jacket that
like Young Vie we saw all the way back in
like season one, episode one was wearing. And I think
one of my favorite details, like I loved the dance
(47:20):
I got like really emotional during the slow mo dance,
and of course Twitter, the Twitter salutes out there realized
that the dance is shot at four frames per second,
which we know four seconds is the limit to echoes
time travel.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
Also, as I would say, this show is definitely made.
This is like if you are the kind of person
who when the MCU films come out and you have
to go through and pause and be finding all the
different dates and like Stanley's birthday is like on a
screen during this. This is a show for that in
a way that I think is even more pleasant and
pleasurable because it looks so good.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
We'll be right back up for quick brick and we're back.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Okay, guys, Aaron put a great question in the notes.
I want to ask you this because I think there's
a lot of fun to be had here. If you
are playing League of Legends now and you're playing solely
from characters who are in the show, who is your
main gonna be as we go off into this. Mine
is going to be hymendinga.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Playing guitar.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Baby, I'm playing a little guyers off the board go
from there?
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Oh no, we can't, guys, I don't have to get
my little guy. I can't pick.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
Okay, Aaron, who's yours?
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Then I'm gonna go with you. You all know how
much I love Jace.
Speaker 6 (48:49):
Just kidding, Hey, Jase, I'm gonna go the Violet, you know, like,
I think there's something beautiful about how her character. My
favorite parts of the show were the street level, the
ground elements. This is like Violet is kind of the
Daredevil with like this is a street brawler the entire time,
and my favorite actual scene in the whole thing was
(49:09):
a zero gravity fight where Jinx is propelling herself using
the minigun and Violet's propelling herself using the gauntlets, so
you got a little mobility and a little bit of
damage dealing. I'm gonna go with Violet.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Jason, I will pick.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
I wanted to be cheeky and say Laura's the shield
guy because.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
He's like the sickest Bram you could ever imagine, because
Vi says his name in this chapter, which I was delighted.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
But I'm gonna pick because we actually have.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
No idea if he's any good, you know, from anything
we've seen. I would pick am Bessa because because I
like her, he seems so overpowered and I don't. I've
never played League. I played a little Storecraft, which I
think is semi similar in terms of genre. So I'm
just guessing that am Bessa would be super super OK.
Speaker 4 (50:02):
What I'm calling Jason mom, because I'm going with Mel.
Speaker 7 (50:05):
I love a witch, I love a spellcaster, I love goods,
and she's got sixteen different great outfits throughout this show.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
Hair, every time you do, like supero, whatever, she's gonna
have a fantastic I would like.
Speaker 7 (50:20):
Her sailor moon transformation animation when I level up or whatever.
Speaker 4 (50:25):
Yeah, I'm definitely playing a smell.
Speaker 6 (50:27):
I have to admit I wanted to pick Mel Joel,
but I knew that if I did.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
I would be in trouble.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
Yeah, that's true, that's true friendship in the poll, boo,
how about you?
Speaker 5 (50:40):
Not only did did Jason take my Laura's ship, but
he also took my ASTO pick. So I'm gonna pivot
last minute to.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Echo, oh nice.
Speaker 5 (50:51):
I mean the skateboard, the cover skateboard, the sword, the
time travel power, everything about him is like the kind
of cool I wished I could be as a kid.
Speaker 6 (51:01):
And Carmen just typed into the chat. Carmen said she
would take Junior officer Maddy Nolan.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Carmen said, Hey, cab Carmen said, do not put me
down like that. Dude. Aaron is shading everyone today because
Aaron also wrote that a Boo was going to pick
Jase before I.
Speaker 7 (51:29):
Do.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
I will. I do want to say, though, and I
hope that that I feel like our audience will appreciate this.
As someone who did not know a lot about the
law of arcane. My friend did make a point when
we were on the way home, My incredible friend Annie
Off just like showing me the original character designs of
a lot of these women in the game. And I
just want to thank for t and the animators because
(51:52):
they took a game that was definitely that more traditional
male gaze designs.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
You can you and by the way, you can extend
that to all video games.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Don't don't don't.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Don't don't point the vigger specifically at League, because it's
really a problem across the space. Yeah, yeah, you know,
And I I love like a street fighter, right, so
like Chunley is my main Like I've seen a sexualized
woman in every game, and I but because my first
entry points to League was okay, and when you compare
(52:26):
the characters. I just think that something we need to
give Fotish and Ryat and whoever else made this show
credit for is like they created something that ended up
reimagining these characters in a way that not only gave
so many different kinds of people a fandom for them,
but also like inspired like a ton of women to
(52:48):
want to like play these characters.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
The amount of unreal cosplay I've seen.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
All this costplay is going to golah, It's.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
Unreal, no, no, no, believe, like seeing there was so
many Vie and k And also can I just say
the way that anime hair pieces have expanded since the
more rat days of London to now like twenty years
later or whatever, unbelievable. Every piece is perfect, every hair
is incredible. But like I just love even things like
(53:17):
Jinx riding the gun that is one of her game moves.
And in the game it's definitely a lot more like
obviously like phallic and kind of like out there, but
in this it became this like incredibly cool character moment,
and I just think that that is something to be celebrated.
Because both visions still exist. You can still play the
game and have the super sexy like boob version of
(53:38):
these characters. But then there are moments in this show
that are so brilliantly for the female gaze or for
a different kind of gaze, the queer gaze. I think
a lot about the seat VI's back and her arms
are so muscily, and her tattoos look so incredible, and
I was like, oh, maybe I'm gonna get a back time,
(53:59):
like I was just but I just think, I just
think that that's another thing about this show. The show
has so much to celebrate. But I was kind of
blown away by how, in my opinion, how like different
that is to a lot of adaptations that we've seen before.
So I just wanted to shout them out and say
thank you for the for the less.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Just one more thing on that. I want to also
shout out to the love scene between Cat and Vibe,
because I think it I mean, you put your finger
on it. It was like it was the perfectly beat.
It was like super hot and not over the top, like.
Speaker 3 (54:31):
Yeah, the implications of that if you understanding.
Speaker 7 (54:35):
About the characters and not about your visually watching the characters,
which I think often with lesbian seccines.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
This was about like when she's like when when Via
is like I don't care. I mean that was like whoa,
Like I started sweating, and.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
And also like it's like, well, that's also like that
wish fulfilment element of like, oh, I've made a mistake,
but my partner just wants me so bad and wants
this thing that they're gonna overlook that.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
And speaking of that desire to end the visual storytelling
that scene. Why it worked so well was because it
was all about that like consensual desire, about being desired,
Like it was all the other partner undressing the other person. Yeah,
the two buttons being yeah, like that from the show,
(55:30):
not explicit, but really is really.
Speaker 3 (55:34):
Just yunning yes, so yearning and the fulfillment.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
So yeah.
Speaker 5 (55:39):
I also wanted to call out there's a lot of
people mad about that sex scene actually, because right before
that is when Jinks tells her sister like I'm gonna
go presumably like do something rash and die by suicide,
and people are mad like, what is the whiplash I'm
getting here? Why would I hear that from her sister
and then immediately go have sex with Kate. I think
(56:02):
people are missing that. That is not what I thinks
Jinks is going to go do of course it's not.
Speaker 3 (56:08):
Also, I just want to say, like, have you I'm
sorry to people on the internet, I I love this
view if this is the case, But have you never
been emotionally unstable? Have you never?
Speaker 6 (56:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (56:23):
I love that you happy, but you have you never
gone bad news? And then tried to seek o dokamine.
Speaker 5 (56:30):
Like yeah, yeah, but to be clear, there was no
indication that VI knew that.
Speaker 3 (56:36):
And she said like, you've got to walk away, and
then literally walked away after locking her in a prison cell.
I think I think that that is there, and also like, yeah,
get to being in your mid thirties and you maybe
will relate to that scene more.
Speaker 6 (56:48):
Also, King Princess just started playing, and there was like
what else are we gonna do?
Speaker 1 (56:51):
We have to yeah, us here together? Yeah, come on.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
I mean we can get We can talk about Dune
Prophecy episode two for sec thing that goes on too long,
carry character story beats at all, But that's not other episode.
Speaking of other episodes, Tomorrow we have a boot leading
us through Dune Prophecy episode.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
One two, and on Thursday, we.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
Celebrate Thanksgiving with our favorite Thanksgiving movies. And next week
we begin Robert egger Is retrospective with the weekly special
extra episode as we prepare for Nosferatu and begin our
year end roundups.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
That's it for this episode.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
Thanks for listening, Thanks for joining us, producer, thanks for
joining us.
Speaker 3 (57:37):
Guys.
Speaker 5 (57:37):
Bye, We enjoyed your one.
Speaker 4 (57:41):
Oh God No.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
X Ray Vision is hosted by Jason Consupson and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
producers are Joel Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer
is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and
Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman
and Heidi our discord moderator.
Look Out for Yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Warning. Today's episode contained spoilers for the series for now,
the final three episodes, the last chapter.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The last time you will ever listen to Enemy by
Imagine Dragons, it's gonna happen. Hold on this time. Maybe
that's it for Arcane.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So if you haven't watched that, then really listen to
Dan Reynolds to Imagine Dragons look Out for Yourself, Go
back watch.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Those and come back here. Hello. My name is Jason Concepcion.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And I'm Rosy Night, and welcome back to Revision of
the podcast, where.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
We dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, colleagues, and
pop culture.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Coming from IRA podcast will bring you three episodes a week,
every Tuesday, every Thursday, with an extra episode every single Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Whoa And In today's episode, we are looking at the
Arcane season two finale, episode seven A and nine at three,
But really we'll be talking about feelings of full seasons
and of course we'll be tapping in the producer panel
coming straight from Kilt Over or Zo one, depending on
how they're feeling. Well, are you lighting now now United?
Now spoilers, but yeah, first we're gonna do some speed
(01:36):
recaps and then we're gonna be talking about our feelings
about this absolutely wild show and.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
What we feel now.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It's it's come to an end for now.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Next up the recap Okay Arcane Season two, the final chapter,
the last three episodes. Episode seven, Pretend like It's the
first time. Episode eight, Killing is a cycle an Episode
nine The Dirt under Your Nail.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Starting with episode seven, Echo awakens in an alternate timeline
where being the Gang's heights from episode one was successful
and the Hex tech was never invented. But get ready
to be sad, guys, Violet died on the job. Himerdinger
has already been there for like a thousand plus days.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So he's doing.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
He's like, He's like, don't worry, Echo, You'll love it here.
And why will he love it here? Well, this is
essentially a world where both Zorn and Powder are in
a very good place. Band is still alive. There's all
kinds of people here that Echo hasn't seen for a
long time, and Echo and Powder share a connection here
(02:44):
that we didn't necessarily get to see, which I was
definitely discussing. But basically, Echo finds shards of hex crystals
and gets Powder to help him and Heimdinger create a
machine that allows him to go back in time four seconds,
which is Echo's game power. So that was a big
(03:04):
deal to have a z drive.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I want to shed out a very funny moment in
which Echo realizes the four seconds is the limit because
Heimerdinger gets blown up every time they go past four seconds.
And heimer Dinger and he's like, okay, so that's the limit.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Ye Like, how did you know?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And he's like, ah, and you We've just seen his
face be like melted off in the most So Powder
and Echo share a romantic night and they kiss, which
in this world they are clearly already romantically entangled. But
as the title of the episode is, Echo says to Powder,
pretend it's the first time they go and have a party,
(03:44):
which is kind of like a it's to celebrate innovators
within Zorn. And while they do that, Himerdinger is on
his usual wild shit like just upgrading the machine on
his own, ends up sacrificing himself, not in the most
terrific way possible. So this is the first of many
people in this three recaps that I will ask are
they dead or are they in the multiverse. I'm saying
(04:04):
it may be multiverse because I love this little guy.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
He disappears. I think he's in the moment.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
He disappears, and he sends echo back to the right
timeline after the Arcane anomaly. We then see that Jace
has been in a different timeline where Hextech has destroyed
all of Piltover and a hooded Mage leads him through
this kind of crumbling as Aaron put in this little
cheeky eldermring joke here Fara Mizzoula to a corpse and
(04:32):
Jason's own warped tammer. So he is like, what is
going on? And this is bad? And then he knows
like I've got to stop my bff slash maybe boyfriend
Victor at any cost. And we're on to episode eight.
We see mel awakening. She's glowing gold. She's got this
really cool kind of markings all over her. She meets
the Sorcerer from the Black Rose, who says, well, guess
(04:54):
what you are? Actually a mage? Very rare, we love,
it's very rare. You're in the gym half made. You
can basically reflect other people, you can see what they're thinking,
you can use their powers. And your mom sucks in
case you didn't realize your mum. And Bessa has actually
been hiding and protecting you because she sees you as
like the ultimate weapon, and she's like the arcane is
(05:15):
waking up, people are messing with it, and you gotta
go back and help save your city. Am Bessa and
Victor joined forces because now uh hex Tech. Victor wants
to get to the hextgates, get to the anomalies and
for some mysterious reason, and am Bessa wants an army,
and thankfully, Victor's actually turned his followers into like an
(05:35):
I robot army.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
He's like Ultron exactly.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
He's using a hive mind to turn his followers into
sexy like slick white and gold Hextech robots. Victor attacks
Jason Mell in the chamber with one of his eye
robots and like they can even though Jas is now
sexy bearded, Jace with a big hammer and he's got
a cool leg after he fought through his alternate timeline,
(05:58):
which I have to say, going just skipping back quickly
to episode one, Jace is in his own timeline and
he is like being tormented in that time. I saw
I saw this in a room with like two thousand
people at least like probably sixty percent were women, and
believe that every single one of them was like cheering
on as this man got tort Absolutely, he was just
(06:19):
absolutely struggling.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
You know, in the scene where he makes his pitch
to the leaders have piltover and so on, there's a gasp.
And the gasp I think is not because he's unveiled,
you know, Victor's one of Victor's army soldiers, and what
it looks like. I think it's because they're like, damn,
he's looking good. He's looking hot.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Landry, my friend who is the number one Jace hater,
when he came out with that long hair and the beard,
she was like, uh oh, he's kind of eating and
I was like, no, I know it's true.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
He sucks.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
How can he do this to us? But Melon, Victor,
I mean, Jason Mel they can barely combine, like their
powers are not anything against I robot. So we're gonna
see what happens next. Jinks turns out she's alive, Buye's
very happy, goes to see Caitlyn. Why the fuck is
Junior Officer Maddy Nolan? Then Or wants to see her.
(07:10):
Turns out more on her later. Jinks gave herself up
to be arrested and is in a prison cell. And
I have to say I did not appreciate how many
weird shots they were of Jinkx's gross feet in this section,
Like I will rewatched this so many times, and for
some reason there's so many shots of her dirty feet.
Ve goes to free Jinks and is like, Caitlyn, go away,
(07:31):
I'm sick of you. Obviously, Jinks gets one up on
her sister, beats her up leaves and she's like, I'm done.
I'm walking out. I've been speaking to my dead silkoa
dad in my head, and he basically said, sometimes you've
got to walk away and stop fighting. Kate comes in
and she's like, hey, I knew your sister was going
to lock you in this prison, and you know what,
(07:51):
I gotta tell you something. I've been kind of like
sleeping and buyers like I don't fucking care, come over
here and my muscly arms covered in tattoos, and then
we get and quite extended and unexpected. We were wondering
are they gonna kiss? Well? Guess what. More than that,
it was great, and I would I was sweat I know,
(08:14):
it's like they go for it. And I will tell
you something, I've maybe never felt more powerful than being
in that room that my friend correctly called the lesbian Convention.
When they played this scene on the big screen, the
screams were so powerful that I felt like I could
have powered myself up for like twenty years.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
It was it was It was steamy, it was crazy.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
It was steamy, And I think they did a nice
job of being steamy without being like explicit, because they
still understand who the audience is for this show.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Jase.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Then we get him making his plea to the leaders
have piled over and so on, and he's like, you
gotta fight the fighters coming here, and we can't keep
fighting each other. Even though I did think that was
the point of the show. Just side note there. We'll
talk about that more.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Late to the point of the game game as well.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
No, now we gotta come together to fight cool Victor
and his sw is like evil robots. Some people leave,
some people don't. We then start the final episode with
Jinx and she has got one of her iconic little
grenades and she just keeps trying to blow herself up
in the last drop, but echoes turns up and he's like, bro,
(09:20):
don't do this, and we see him like rewind time
a few times and he eventually is like.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Let's talk.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
We then just go straight into the battle. They are like,
we need some war we need some enemies, and it's happening.
Caitlyn and her team attempt to ambush am Bessa and
her kind of Noxy and warriors. They're captured because guess why.
Turns out Junior Officer Maddy Nolan, who's been keeping Caitlin
warm at night, has been working for AMBSSA all alone.
(09:48):
Oh baby, Mel arrives, saves Caitlyn and in doing so
kill like Maddy Nolan is gonna shoot Caitlyn in the
head after saying I appreciated your and Mel puts up
a shield and it ricochets and shoots Junior Officer Maddie
Nolan in the head. And wow, the way people were
(10:09):
cheering when this young woman died. You couldn't believe it. Ah.
Caitlin and Mel have this great battle where they battle
and Bessa. I love that Mel overcomes am Bessa and
Bessa gets sent to the Black Rose dimension, where we're
kind of seeing her chained up very hell raiser, very
center bite style, but Mel actually manages to save her
mother from that dimension she passes away, but finally she
(10:33):
says to her, you are the wolf, like you are
the next Noxie and leader. Then, just when things are
looking really bad, we've already lost bearded best friend of VI,
who we learned his name was Louris rip Lorris. We
barely knew yee, we barely knew ye. We're seeing lots
of deaths from Piltover, the brave people who came up
(10:54):
from Zorn to fight alongside the people who've been oppressing them.
They're dying. But guess what. Then we get huge moment
where Jink shows up in her little air machine with
echo in the firelights and they telling the tide of
the battle. We at a lot of great echo moments.
We get sadly, then we find Warwick, who has been
(11:15):
victified and is like a giant hex tech werewolf now
battles Jinks, and by then Victor arrives with his new redesign.
It's really sick. It's reminiscent of the game, but in
my opinion, I really love the choices they made with it.
He's left his little galaxy space where he's been hanging
out with Sky and talking about, you know, making everything perfect.
(11:39):
Confronts Jason. He's like, bro, I gotta end all conflict
and suffering. And even though you might no longer be
part of this home erotic friendship, I am very glad
to see you. I love you. Echo uses a zero
drive to outmaneuver Victor in his army. He's going back
in time, he's pulling things. Jason, Victor commune with not
(12:00):
Arcane in this kind of galactic universal space, which I love.
This is actually my favorite visuals of the season, or
this part of the season, and it's revealed, of course,
in case you didn't guess that the hooded Mage that
saved Jase was actually an alternate timeline Victor and his
pursuit of perfection just led to him being like endlessly lonely,
(12:21):
and in all timelines, the only person he could trust
to help convince him to stop was Jase because they're
in love obviously. And then together they basically take the
piece of hex tech that Jase and that Victored once
given to Jace. They hold it together and Victor says,
you gotta leave, and Jay says, no, we finish this together,
(12:44):
and then they disappear into what seems into the gem.
So again, are they dead? Is it multiversal? I'm saying
it's multiversal. Also, guys, in case you haven't seen the
Christopher Nolan Tenant movie, this is basically the Tenant I
just want to say, it's just Tenant. Then Warick aka
Vander aka Victified Vanda attacks me. They're in the kind
(13:06):
of tunnel system of Piltover, and Jink saves her, but
as Vi grabs her, Jinks takes the hex Tech out
of her gauntlets, causing them to fall apart, and she
falls down with Warwick into the kind of tunnels and says,
you know, I will always be together in any world.
(13:27):
Ye holds them and it doesn't It doesn't happen. And
then this is the big question again, is Jink's really dead?
Many people stopping this seeing her, seeing these kind of
purple shooting out into the tunnels. We end with essentially
like a prologue that lets us know mel is taking
her mother's place. We see singed daughters still alive. Savika
(13:49):
joins the council, and now I have to say, you
don't know how much the lesbians loves Sevika bro Every
time she's on screen, she never had one word, and
every single cosplay girl in there is screaming. It was fantastic.
Kaitlin and Bay are together. Caitlin is now got a
cool eyepatch by is humming the song we first heard
Powder singing in episode one, and it looks to me
(14:11):
like Caitlyn is essentially looking at the plans of the
Piltover tunnel system the Piltover.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
And they're going to do some sort of reforms to
the structure.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
And I also wonder if she is looking for Jinks. Right,
Jinks knows those tunnels as that was where Jinks fell,
and maybe Kate is trying to find her. And then
we get at the end, Kate asked Via, you're still
in this battle. You're still in this fight, and then
we see a kind of airship fly off, letting us
know that there are like more tales to be told
(14:43):
in this world. So they did not bury their gaze.
Good for them, and we if you're worried about that,
you know some of our discord word they did not.
You do get a gay happy ending here, and yeah,
that is the end of our recaps, and I have
to say, obviously I got to watch this in the cinema.
It was a amazing I will say I do think
Netflix should have done like a Disney style Star Wars
(15:04):
cinematic release for these I think they would have made
a lot of money. I think people would have really
gotten to enjoy some of the more epic moments. But yeah,
it was great. And I guess we're going to toss
to a message from our sponsors before we call in
the newly united Piltover and so On producers Panel to
talk about our feelings about the finale of.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, Yeah, and we're back.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
We're back, baby.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Please welcome to the chamber the producer panel, abou Jowel
and Aaron to discuss the series finale question.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Mark of our finale, I believe of our but I
think we know that there is going to be more
stories in this kind of room, Terror, wild and clearly
you know, a league of legends.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Once they figure out their line producer issues and how
to budget the show responsibly, I think they will create
more shows. It only makes sense that they will do.
So let's talk about our favorite Let's talk about.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Like the what what worked?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I think the pacing obviously is going to be a
big point of conversation, but I think.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
For me it has been with the audience.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Has been with the audience. I think the a common
thread in a lot of the comments about the end
of season two the end of the series has been God,
it felt really rush, and it did feel rushed. I
will say that what worked for me, though, was that
they concentrated on emotional climaxes and emotional beats. It's very
(16:54):
interesting to me that like the plot beats and the
emotional beats kind of never intersect, but the fact that
they gave the emotional stuff such a balanced airing in
the finale made it feel ultimately satisfying and overcome the
pacing issues. And I also think that thematically the show
really hangs together around a common idea which seems to
(17:20):
me to be not quite forgiveness, but like letting go.
You know, Yea, there's clearly a difference between forgiveness and
letting go, but it's more about, Hey, bad stuff happened,
we did bad stuff. I'm just gonna move past it now.
There's certain things and maybe I can't forgive people before, yeah,
but I'm but whatever that looks like to me, I'm
(17:41):
going to move past that and move on. So I
think that was what really carried it for me, and
I was ultimately quite satisfied, even though I mean it's
I feel like, if you like the show, it's impossible
to come out of episode nine and not be like,
we need more.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Where's the rest of it?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
But ultimately I'm quite satisfied. Your favorite elements for you, Rosie.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
I would definitely say, just like, the emotional beats did
really hit for me, and even some of the stuff
that I know we will talk about, like that first episode.
In this episode seven, I was definitely a little bit confused,
and at first I thought it was a lack of
understanding of the law, but actually I think everyone was
a little bit confused with that kind of alternate universe episode.
But for me, I think that is the episode I
(18:27):
will go back and revisit the most, and I think
it hammered home some emotional beats that would then come
to the four later on.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I inverted happy ending. They gave you the happy ending
in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Exactly, and I was happy where Kate and Bayer's story ended.
As somebody who was not particularly invested in Jake, I
actually found the Jake and Victor stuff to be pretty
profound by the end, and also like I am a Tenant.
I'm a Tenant apologist because that movie is gay as
hell and there's about two men who love each other
and go through time to just be together, and this
(19:00):
is the same thing. So that was good for me.
I love Echo. I thought that.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, criminally, criminally low amounts of eggs exactly. I needed
so much more Echo in this series.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I do feel like by the end, I was like,
I feel like if you're if, the show is a
journey of them kind of learning what works and what
doesn't work or what they want to see. I do
think that by the end, having Echo getting to be
that big hero that really worked for me. I love drinks,
so I'm definitely of the mind of like there's fun
to be had looking at whether or not she died
(19:31):
while still getting that emotional beat. So for me, it
was the emotional beats. And I really want to ask
a Boot because we didn't have you on the last
part and you're desperately missed by our discord users, how
do you feel about the final three episodes?
Speaker 5 (19:45):
I loved it so so, so so much, like I'm
working away with it, just still processing my feelings. Like
I tweeted yesterday, I was like, I'm going to need
a couple of weeks and a couple of rewatches to
figure out how I actually feel about the show, because
I'm left just astounded. I think the visual storytelling is
top notch stuff, some of the best I've ever seen.
(20:06):
I think the emotional gut punches rushed, sure, effective, very
very I've walked away just feeling quite blown away, you know,
by the show. You know, the more I think about it,
the more knits I can pick. But the feelings I
(20:28):
walked away with after watching these last three episodes were
unlike any other animated show I can think of in
recent memory. So I don't know. I'm a total stand
for this show despite its faults, and I loved nearly
every aspect of at top to bottom.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I do have to say I did come at the end.
I did like look at my friend and be like, Okay,
I do think it's a really interesting situation because I
do feel like by the end of the episode, I
was like, you can go back to calling Arcane the
show a masterpiece, just because of the they managed to
get emotional beats to hit. But it's interesting because it
is also not a perfect show. So I think there's
(21:05):
an interesting conversation to be had around it can both
be a masterpiece that really works and just absolutely hits,
but it can also be something where you're like, oh,
what would it have been like to do this? But
I think part of that is actually why this show
is so unique because there's never been a show like this.
So there is gonna be those growing pains, and there's
(21:26):
gonna be things that are like, the highs are so
high and then you're like, wait a minute, but a
normal show would do this. But you're like, but also
if this show had been made normally, it would have
never been the show that we got. So it's like
this really complex space, Aaron, how about you?
Speaker 6 (21:40):
So one of the reasons I think a Boo your
your comments spot on with the emotional storytelling really hit
even despite the pacing, is because this show did an
incredible job of building character and focusing on characters and
making you care about damaged, imperfect characters. Jinx someone who
(22:00):
you know. Throughout the recaps of season one and the
first two acts of season two, we talk about her
committing mass murder and we still care about her as
a person.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
Really, and then you introduce you introduced Issha and some
backstory and episode seven with with the alternate timeline is
beautiful and we fall in love with her again. And
they did such a good job I think of focusing
on characters and that, like that storytelling really really worked
for me throughout all two seasons despite the pacing.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, Joel, how about you? What wa wah whah.
Speaker 7 (22:38):
Man the beautiful Okay, wait, we're focusing what we're costumes
stunning lesbians? Yeah, I loved them. Characters really fun to follow.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
I'm out, did anyone follow Did anything jump out to
you in the finale three episodes Joe out that you
were like surprised by as someone who comes into this
with a little bit more critique, Was there anything where
you were like, Okay, actually that was kind of a banger,
or this is a character I wish I'd seen that.
Speaker 7 (23:09):
I think the Ambssa and her daughter storyline was shockingly good, Like,
I think that came together in such a fantastic way,
especially because I found myself all episodes of I'm like,
I need to know what happened to her? Is she Okay,
she lost forever, like where did she go for her back?
For her to come back in such a strong way,
I think she probably has the strongest character arc of everybody,
(23:33):
just from where she started to how she changed to
where she evolved to at the end. So yeah, I
thought that was done really well, and it's sort of exciting,
I think for video game players, knowing that that world's
gonna be fleshed out later, to have a space where
I jump off into.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Also, am Bessa is the one character from the show,
so I was.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Going to say the game because everyone else is getting.
My understanding is they've already started adding skins for everyone else,
but am best is actually a fully blown.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Character introduced like last month or something.
Speaker 7 (24:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah, I was like, that's an interesting choice. I'm very intrigued.
And then I saw Ambssa in the finale battle with
those like crazy like cars on chains, and I was like, oh, okay, no,
I get it, Like this is like who wouldn't want
to play as that character? Okay, Jason and Joel, I
know you two both have like heavy critiques on pacing,
(24:24):
so let's talk about that, like you two go go
deep into it.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Listen when the producers tell you, as they have in
numerous interviews since the kind of bombshell Hollywood Reporter story
came out, it was a variety, sorry forget, I.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Think it was. I think it was THHL. But anyway,
that was a trade expose.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, correct saying that, No, it was always going to
be two seasons. That's come on, there's no. I don't
believe it. I don't believe that to be the case.
I think they were clearly thinking there was going to
be more, and I think it tells in the storytelling.
I think that they saved it with incredible emotional home runs,
(25:08):
like it's interesting that to me, the stuff that was
surprising was more the misses, like the diversions, the time jumps, yeah,
the alternate universes, and the stuff that was not surprising
was also kind of like the most for me, the
most resonant and emotionally satisfying, because it just tells you
they're like they recognized, Okay, we have to land the
(25:30):
Ambassa plane. Okay, we have to land the Kate and
V plane. Okay, we have to land the JINX and
V plane, and just understanding, like we have to give
people resolutions to these stories. Victor and Jason and they
did it, and to me, that was that managed to
(25:52):
overcome any issues that they had with the pac which
is really if you want to talk about like kind
of a master it's like accomplishing time is accomplishing that
because it really was, like you do, the more you
think about it, you really do feel how rushed it was,
but it was. It's the hard stuff, it's the gut
(26:13):
punch stuff. It's the emotional stuff that really carries. And
I keep thinking about for me, the theme that forgiveness
were moving on. Theme I think is why it's so
resonant to me is I've been watching a lot of
couple's therapy on Showtime on the Bleared Showtime Network, and
(26:34):
Orna the Therapist at one point there's she has a
line that I can't stop thinking about in the in
the current season where there's like a polyque triplet and
they come in and uh and the main the anchor
guy of that trio is like airing all these grievances.
(26:59):
You know, she did this to me first, and then
I did this, and then of course Ben and she
stops him and she's like, it doesn't matter who did
what first, and he's like, but I think it does,
and he's and she's like, no, it you know, in
a court of law it matters, But in a relationship,
trying to unwind who did what to who first is
(27:19):
actually tremendously toxic, and you can't ever escape what's happening.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Because then you're basically always trying to get the uppa hand.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, and I think that message in this show to
me just you know, in a show about two like
warring societies who can't get it out of each other's
way and can't stop thinking, well, they're doing this to us,
so we have to do this and they and then
the other society is like, well, they attacked us, so
clearly we must respond. And the only way out of
(27:46):
that is to just go you know, I'm not I'm
not saying what happened was okay, and I'm never going
to get over it, but I'm also not going to
be bound by the rules of like responding to that.
And that worked on a societal level and the show
and it worked on an interpersonal level. And I thought
that was just a tremendously trenchant and resonant emotional beat
(28:09):
that they just nailed and managed to overcome the piecing
issues for me.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
And I'm gonna set up I just want people to understand.
You know Joel from the New Girl podcast, You know
Joel from Fake Doctor's Real Friends, But do you know
that Joel is also like a storied entertainment critic who
has been watching TV for a very long time, who
is on MPR talking about movies. So believe when she
(28:34):
comes into this and tells you the show has pacing issues,
She's got the chops, She's done the work, and she
does have the juice. So Joel, tell us what did
it work? From a television critic level?
Speaker 4 (28:47):
First Wow, introduction?
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Thank you?
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (28:51):
So I will say I agree with everybody that it's
sort of a miracle that what they pulled off managed
to be as entertaining as it did. Right, Like, I'm
giving you impossible too, Like I'd get back in the
boat with these characters even though this was a train wreck.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Absolutely the same. It's fun.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
You're like, oh, these characters are so exciting.
Speaker 7 (29:11):
Even if the film structurally doesn't quite work, I'm still
invested in this world and in these characters, and that's great.
I think if I take a step back as like
a person who loves video games haven't played this video game,
but I do love video game then for a long time, especially,
I think mid As kids were like, Hey, wouldn't it
be great if all these cut scenes were actually a movie.
(29:31):
That would be really exciting cut scenes look so cool?
Star Wars the Old Republic Knights of the Eternal Throne
did it and it was amazing. But they did it
really well because you didn't get a lot of vocal acting.
What it was was like, here are these really cool
characters you like in a very dope setting, giving you
emotional beat after emotional beat that you can understand that's
really intrinsic to the lore of Star Wars, and it
(29:53):
was fabulous.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
I frequently rewatched this movie. It's so good.
Speaker 7 (29:57):
I think our kne sort of struggled with bringing a
story to the forefront. Like they have the dope scenery,
they have amazing characters who you love, who are vibrant
and fun, but then when you put them on a story,
it's really difficult to you know, you gotta articulately, you
gotta be saying one thing. It's it's a lot of
effort and work, and I think they developed a really
good job with a lot of this, but like, my god,
(30:19):
you can't and I'm sorry, you can't put a music
video in every episode. It just completely derails the pacing time.
If they had just removed those, I have four extra
minutes in every single episode to tell story as opposed
to a montage of images. It's such a freaking train
wrecktor show. And the songs were not good enough to
support stopping the show to be like, oh, sometimes I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
There's like two or three good songs arose. Yeah, but.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
Missus iffy for me, and I think my biggest takeaway
if I were, you know, to come in and give
critique before finalization, I would say, you don't need every
sci fi trope in your final act.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
We got robots, time travel, well.
Speaker 7 (30:57):
Were some of the other Oh, we got multiverses, Like
it was just so much to shoehorn in four episodes,
and also you're introducing new characters across the final act
of see this the second season of the show, it
felt it was too much to juggle successfully. We could
never throw all of those elements in and have a
(31:17):
storyline that makes sense. I mean, and because it's so
close to everything we've already compared it to Marvel and Ultron,
but you could also do a Spider Man, especially because
Echo looks a lot like malth Rollison character designed like
every time something new came up, I was like, Oh,
it feels like you're just sort of tipping into this.
It felt like you were feeling a Netflix algorithm, which
(31:38):
I don't know if that's the case or not, but
that was really an issue for me. I'll say, like I,
this level of lesbians is what I demand from all
of my TV so Aces you really nailed it, but
I do think it suffered for that. But surprisingly I
could see myself rewatching this.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Oh yeah, I definitely think that. I also speaking for
sure speaking of tropes, I want to bring in Arrow
and Aaron give us your theory on how like how
we have Star Wars being done in our arcane.
Speaker 6 (32:10):
Season two is basically the original trilogy of Star Wars.
Act one is episode four, Act two is episode five,
Act three is episode six, and I think everyone almost
entirely agrees that the strongest of the OG trilogy is Empire.
I think Act two was all of our favorite. We
had a lot of critiques at the end of Act
(32:31):
one and then Act two came in and we were like,
everything that we were worried about has been fixed. We
loved it the end with Warwick and the family coming together.
And then I think Act three had a lot of
resumes every empire. Yeah, and Act three had all this
resolution that was very nice and maybe not necessary. Also
(32:52):
we have like, you know, the bad guy saves like
turns around and saves the good guys.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Very Darth Empire.
Speaker 6 (33:00):
But like there was a lot that just felt like
it resolved for the sake of resolving. And also Heimer
Dinger gets fridged in the beginning of Act three al
a Yoda, but you know, there's a lot there.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
To die rather than just like can I just put
himself in the fridge?
Speaker 4 (33:21):
All men who are like, I'm done, It's fine.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Oh that is true.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I'm also what about the reveal that we're listening to
a Heimer Dinger. Yeah, okay, wait a second, this is hydrogen.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
The guitar that.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Is like, if you guys have not seen the James
Wand classic Aquaman, there is a similar visual musical gag
in that that literally just killed me and the and
in the movie when it in the movie that when
we realized that Heimerdinger was playing that guitar, I absolutely
lost my ship, Like that is one of the best
for me, okay a boo. I just want to know,
(34:02):
like what you are the one who like understands this
world the most, I think, and like, what are the
stories you want to see coming out of this? Now
we're here, now we're at the end, and we know
there's going to be more shows. What do you think
are the most likely things we're going to see coming
out of this and what do you personally want to see?
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Well, I think Jason, you put it perfectly. As someone
who loved both seasons of Arcane, I am still walking
away from episode nine going ugh, I wanted more, Where's
the rest of it? And I think that some of
that is very intentional. Naxis, for example, is almost guaranteed
going to be a part of this universe we're going
to explore further. In fact, I think Mel's storyline was
(34:45):
one that I was wanting left wanting with this that
was kind of the point next season because it felt.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
That feels like an obvious spill.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
It feels like mostly storyline was put in here to
introduce us the.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
Next show, to set up Axis.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Naxis show the showrunner, who's also one of the co
creators a Christian link from Riot Games. He did say
that in upcoming shows it will be nooxus Ionia and
Dematia are the places they want to explore. And I
think obviously a mal show, Naxia show, a Naxist show
that that seems like the obvious first stop for what
(35:24):
they would do next.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
I think so too. There's also a couple of other
easter eggs that I was finding. Again I have to
credit mostly Twitter and Reddit for this. I have not
played League of Legends in like over a decade, so
my knowledge is very out of date. But at the
end we see like the three eyed Raven not brand
that's actually hints towards another character, another hint toward a potential,
(35:47):
huge popular League of Legends character that.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Might show up in the future.
Speaker 5 (35:50):
So I think a lot of this season airing to
your point, especially with mel was seating like a League
of Legends cinematic universe, television universe of sorts.
Speaker 6 (36:01):
Helped by the fact that they don't show Jinx's body,
they don't show Jason Victor's body, Heimerdinger's body, like they're
all out there, right, they can come back.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
For and again once they figured out how to budget
a show responsibly.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
That was certainly I'm gonna look, I'm gonna say one thing. Yeah,
then this is They've said this a lot. They said
it at the premiere. I was actually very impressed by
how they came on stage of the premier and they
were like, yeah that article where they said we didn't
know what we were doing, we didn't And I was like, wow,
I think I love you guys. And then today I
was actually speaking to Christian Link for an IgM feature
that I'm doing, and he was saying, you know, honestly,
(36:38):
like the money all went to the animators, and they
want to keep making shows where the money goes to
the art. And I'm like, you know what, I want
you to have a better budget, but I also want
that mentality to be an animation and I want it.
I want people to keep getting paid. So I'm like,
can we do both?
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, I listen. I love that sentiment. I also feel
like in Hollywood and entertainment and tech whatever, or when
people say, oh, the money's going to the workers, I
want the receipts. So while I I tip my hat
to that, the significance of that. I also want to
(37:13):
know if that's true, because I kind of don't believe
it one hundred percent. And this is also a world
in which Blue Eye Samurai exists and is similarly as
excellent visually and didn't cost a quarter of a fucking
billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Very true. I will also say I do wonder if
part of the reason the money went to the animation
team and the people who created the visual language. It's
a French company, and I feel like the protections there,
like for Fortish and for those French workers, is probably
much higher, and as is probably the quality of life
from what we've heard of some of the FOURTIESH team.
But yeah, I mean I want them to learn how
(37:48):
to budget because I want to see loads more shows
in this universe. I also want to see, like I
always do, I want to know, like what does the
show look like when it has a budget closer to
Blue Eyed Samurai. What is it look like when you
let somebody who loves two D animation take it over?
Speaker 1 (38:03):
What does it look like?
Speaker 3 (38:04):
This has been a space for experimental animation, and I
would actually love to see each show have as much
of a unique visual language as Archett.
Speaker 6 (38:15):
That's something I really agree with Rosie, Like they proved
so many times that they could do alternate animation styles
throughout this season.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, take that and run with it.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
Don't feel every single show you put in this universe
has to have the exact same look as this, especially
if it's gonna cost a billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Imagine if him Dinger is in like a two D
one of Us, because he looks like a two D
Disney creature, Like, I want to see that. And also
I would add, honestly, just take Ja like a maybe
a movie or like a mini series with like a
couple of episodes like in and intermedia episodes that we
got a lot during COVID where it's kind of not
a full season of just like Jason Victor in that
(38:54):
kind of galactic arcade space. Okay. Also, big question I
had after coming out of this. Now, I've done my
research and I understand more what arcane as like magic
means in this world. But did you feel like you
guys understood what the arcane was by the end.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I think it's some sort of like a nexus or
a portal thing, but I don't really know.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
They believe in like an arcane magic in this world
and arcane is about that kind of ancient magic with
a with a less modern understanding. But I did think
it was really funny. I was actually by the end,
I was like, this is such a great like fuck
you to everything you learn about storytelling in TV, because like,
nobody knows what that means, even if you're the biggest
deepest arcane kind of lover or League of Legends. Aboo,
(39:45):
what do you think about the arcane? Like do you
feel like that's like a mystery to be solved? Do
you feel like they want you to look into what
that term means within the games? Like how do you
feel about that part of it?
Speaker 5 (39:56):
No, I don't think it's a mystery to be solved
at all, And I think expecting at all to ever
get answers about what the hurricane is is going to
leave you disappointed.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
I love that we need more mysteries like that in
fiction and in life.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
Yeah, I mean, I in fact, I don't I quite
I don't mind it. You know, I don't want like
a midi chlorine explanation of what the arcane is. I'm
fine with it being this wild, unreliable, magical catch all
that lets them do whatever the first.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
They want they want, you know, it keeps you with
the character.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
I'm fine with the arcane being elusive.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
They don't know what it is.
Speaker 7 (40:29):
You don't know what it is, but it's impacting their world. Bam,
great mcguffin set.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Let's go.
Speaker 6 (40:37):
Yes, speaking of characters, Jason, I think you need to
talk about Echo.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, let's let's talk about Echo.
What do you feel like?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
What?
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Easily one of my favorite characters coming out of this
final seasons, but I felt like I'd missed like three
episodes or something like I didn't. I had to come
into the group chat and be like, so am I
like not up to there? Like one another.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
Character who I think is getting his own show and
is intentionally why he got hero moments and.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Absolutely should because it just felt like so rich and
resonant when we when it really got moving in episode
eight with Echo's plot, I will say, you know, I
was like severely thrown when I put on episode seven
and I was like, yes, did I miss an episode?
Like what the fuck is happening? And it's not just
(41:27):
like the alternate universe stuff, It's that it seemed like
Echo and Powder Slash Jinks had a relationship that seemed
to me to like be based on stuff that I
had not seen and that I felt like I had missed.
And I mean, this is one of the examples of
(41:48):
the things that ultimately the show overcomes that, but that
that was specifically a moment that left me feeling like
and especially as Jinks as excuse me as echoes, you know,
skills and actions become crucial to turning the tide of
the conflict. It it it just felt like specifically that
(42:13):
I wanted I wanted more of it, Like where was
the rest of it? Where was that backstory? Like does
that exist anywhere? I want to know the basis of
those feelings between uh Echo and Powder. It's like that
is it? You know, there's certain like emotional motivational things
that I don't like Jace. What does Jace care about?
(42:35):
I don't actually know, and I don't give a shitt
that's it he cares about to the extent that it's like,
we need to stop Hexsteck, bro Hextech. The fucking barn
doors are open and Hexteck is running across the fields,
Like why are you still caring about stopping Hexteck?
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Now you.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Fucking way past time that you stop caring about stopping
hexs deck just over.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Feel accountable to yourself. You were the way you started this, bro.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
But with you know, when episode seven got underway and
then Echo and then it became clear what Echo's plan was,
I was just like, man, where has Echo been this
whole time? I feel like that's to me, the one
character where I'm just like criminally criminally low levels.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
I went back to season one because I was like,
wait a minute, did I miss this being seeded? Then
I will say I did ask about this. It's in
the ign thing. But like that specific thing, that was
something that Christian told me, and I think this is
something that makes Arcane unusual for better for worse. Whatever
he did tell me, he was like, that was just
(43:44):
a storyline they wanted to see. So they just wanted
to see what happened with these characters in that world.
And I think in a way that is what made
the show so widely accessible because it does tap into
this notion of like, well, what if we just did this,
Like the show.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Doesn't, Here's here's what really works about. There's a lot
of things that really work, But to me, character wise,
what really works about this show is it's operatically a
soap like. It's so high opera like and it totally
commits to shit, like, hey, what if these two actually
(44:20):
you're deeply in love in this like altered universe and
we've we're just gonna throw that out there.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Yeah exactly, Like, well if you it's very soap opera
because it does feel like one of those episodes of
like Days of Our Lives where something completely crazy would
happen and then at the end they'd be like it
was all a dream and you're just like, well, I
love getting this like fan pic episode where you kind
of get to explore this nice version of this fucked
up well.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
And I love that about it.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Now.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
It does leave me wanting a lot more, particularly from Echo,
but there are little moments like that all throughout this,
like when Kate is talking about Junior Officer Maddy Nolan
and is like, yeah, that was fun dub like she
was I was just you know, I was just with
her and believing every fucking terrible fascistic thing that she
(45:08):
that she was espousing, and honestly I was doing it
for the sex, you know, Like yeah, I was like
it's those kind of moments that are great, but yeah,
it's like Echo more and more, Echo, Please.
Speaker 6 (45:20):
When we did the rewatch of season one on extras,
A Boo and I and I think this was the
episode you were on, Rosie, we talked about the bridge
fight with Echo and Jinx and how it was this
beautiful recreation of them having a fight, like playing as kids.
But I was like, we didn't get that when they
were actually kids. And I wonder now if we had
replaced Milo and Clagger as much as I love them
(45:42):
with Echo early on and we got all that time
with Echo. I mean, Echo's the one who found the job.
We know that Echo could have gone on the job
with them and we could have gotten all this time.
I just wanted Echo and Powder like running around in
the background building stuff together.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Give me something like that exactly.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
I did go back and was like, this was not seated.
I didn't miss it.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
But I have to.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Say again, and I don't think I'm alone. I think
we're talking about this before we started recording. Episode seven
is probably gonna be the episode I rewatched the most
because it's just so beautiful to be in that Zorn
space and in this different vision of it and to
get to see Powder and to kind of get to
see what that world might have looked like. And I
think a lot of fans felt that way, So that
(46:25):
in itself, I guess, is a hint of like maybe
there is a world where we could have had a
whole season of that if this show had had five seasons.
You know, a boo, what do you think?
Speaker 5 (46:35):
I also wanted to shout out the visual storytelling in
episode seven in particular, because I think there's a lot
of perhaps I texted to you this to you guys earlier,
perhaps too much showing and not enough telling, But like
there's a lot of really excellent, subtle visual storytelling. There's
some obvious ones. For example, Powder has a streak of
pink and her hair yes bye bye. Vander has a
(46:58):
Vye tattoo on his wrist. If you like pause at
a certain moment, you can see it. There's all these
really excellent I mean, she's wearing the jacket. Powder is
also wearing, like the necklace thing and the jacket that
like Young Vie we saw all the way back in
like season one, episode one was wearing. And I think
one of my favorite details, like I loved the dance
(47:20):
I got like really emotional during the slow mo dance,
and of course Twitter, the Twitter salutes out there realized
that the dance is shot at four frames per second,
which we know four seconds is the limit to echoes
time travel.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
Also, as I would say, this show is definitely made.
This is like if you are the kind of person
who when the MCU films come out and you have
to go through and pause and be finding all the
different dates and like Stanley's birthday is like on a
screen during this. This is a show for that in
a way that I think is even more pleasant and
pleasurable because it looks so good.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
We'll be right back up for quick brick and we're back.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Okay, guys, Aaron put a great question in the notes.
I want to ask you this because I think there's
a lot of fun to be had here. If you
are playing League of Legends now and you're playing solely
from characters who are in the show, who is your
main gonna be as we go off into this. Mine
is going to be hymendinga.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Playing guitar.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Baby, I'm playing a little guyers off the board go
from there?
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Oh no, we can't, guys, I don't have to get
my little guy. I can't pick.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
Okay, Aaron, who's yours?
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Then I'm gonna go with you. You all know how
much I love Jace.
Speaker 6 (48:49):
Just kidding, Hey, Jase, I'm gonna go the Violet, you know, like,
I think there's something beautiful about how her character. My
favorite parts of the show were the street level, the
ground elements. This is like Violet is kind of the
Daredevil with like this is a street brawler the entire time,
and my favorite actual scene in the whole thing was
(49:09):
a zero gravity fight where Jinx is propelling herself using
the minigun and Violet's propelling herself using the gauntlets, so
you got a little mobility and a little bit of
damage dealing. I'm gonna go with Violet.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Jason, I will pick.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
I wanted to be cheeky and say Laura's the shield
guy because.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
He's like the sickest Bram you could ever imagine, because
Vi says his name in this chapter, which I was delighted.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
But I'm gonna pick because we actually have.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
No idea if he's any good, you know, from anything
we've seen. I would pick am Bessa because because I
like her, he seems so overpowered and I don't. I've
never played League. I played a little Storecraft, which I
think is semi similar in terms of genre. So I'm
just guessing that am Bessa would be super super OK.
Speaker 4 (50:02):
What I'm calling Jason mom, because I'm going with Mel.
Speaker 7 (50:05):
I love a witch, I love a spellcaster, I love goods,
and she's got sixteen different great outfits throughout this show.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
Hair, every time you do, like supero, whatever, she's gonna
have a fantastic I would like.
Speaker 7 (50:20):
Her sailor moon transformation animation when I level up or whatever.
Speaker 4 (50:25):
Yeah, I'm definitely playing a smell.
Speaker 6 (50:27):
I have to admit I wanted to pick Mel Joel,
but I knew that if I did.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
I would be in trouble.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
Yeah, that's true, that's true friendship in the poll, boo,
how about you?
Speaker 5 (50:40):
Not only did did Jason take my Laura's ship, but
he also took my ASTO pick. So I'm gonna pivot
last minute to.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Echo, oh nice.
Speaker 5 (50:51):
I mean the skateboard, the cover skateboard, the sword, the
time travel power, everything about him is like the kind
of cool I wished I could be as a kid.
Speaker 6 (51:01):
And Carmen just typed into the chat. Carmen said she
would take Junior officer Maddy Nolan.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Carmen said, Hey, cab Carmen said, do not put me
down like that. Dude. Aaron is shading everyone today because
Aaron also wrote that a Boo was going to pick
Jase before I.
Speaker 7 (51:29):
Do.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
I will. I do want to say, though, and I
hope that that I feel like our audience will appreciate this.
As someone who did not know a lot about the
law of arcane. My friend did make a point when
we were on the way home, My incredible friend Annie
Off just like showing me the original character designs of
a lot of these women in the game. And I
just want to thank for t and the animators because
(51:52):
they took a game that was definitely that more traditional
male gaze designs.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
You can you and by the way, you can extend
that to all video games.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Don't don't don't.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Don't don't point the vigger specifically at League, because it's
really a problem across the space. Yeah, yeah, you know,
And I I love like a street fighter, right, so
like Chunley is my main Like I've seen a sexualized
woman in every game, and I but because my first
entry points to League was okay, and when you compare
(52:26):
the characters. I just think that something we need to
give Fotish and Ryat and whoever else made this show
credit for is like they created something that ended up
reimagining these characters in a way that not only gave
so many different kinds of people a fandom for them,
but also like inspired like a ton of women to
(52:48):
want to like play these characters.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
The amount of unreal cosplay I've seen.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
All this costplay is going to golah, It's.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
Unreal, no, no, no, believe, like seeing there was so
many Vie and k And also can I just say
the way that anime hair pieces have expanded since the
more rat days of London to now like twenty years
later or whatever, unbelievable. Every piece is perfect, every hair
is incredible. But like I just love even things like
(53:17):
Jinx riding the gun that is one of her game moves.
And in the game it's definitely a lot more like
obviously like phallic and kind of like out there, but
in this it became this like incredibly cool character moment,
and I just think that that is something to be celebrated.
Because both visions still exist. You can still play the
game and have the super sexy like boob version of
(53:38):
these characters. But then there are moments in this show
that are so brilliantly for the female gaze or for
a different kind of gaze, the queer gaze. I think
a lot about the seat VI's back and her arms
are so muscily, and her tattoos look so incredible, and
I was like, oh, maybe I'm gonna get a back time,
(53:59):
like I was just but I just think, I just
think that that's another thing about this show. The show
has so much to celebrate. But I was kind of
blown away by how, in my opinion, how like different
that is to a lot of adaptations that we've seen before.
So I just wanted to shout them out and say
thank you for the for the less.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Just one more thing on that. I want to also
shout out to the love scene between Cat and Vibe,
because I think it I mean, you put your finger
on it. It was like it was the perfectly beat.
It was like super hot and not over the top, like.
Speaker 3 (54:31):
Yeah, the implications of that if you understanding.
Speaker 7 (54:35):
About the characters and not about your visually watching the characters,
which I think often with lesbian seccines.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
This was about like when she's like when when Via
is like I don't care. I mean that was like whoa,
Like I started sweating, and.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
And also like it's like, well, that's also like that
wish fulfilment element of like, oh, I've made a mistake,
but my partner just wants me so bad and wants
this thing that they're gonna overlook that.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
And speaking of that desire to end the visual storytelling
that scene. Why it worked so well was because it
was all about that like consensual desire, about being desired,
Like it was all the other partner undressing the other person. Yeah,
the two buttons being yeah, like that from the show,
(55:30):
not explicit, but really is really.
Speaker 3 (55:34):
Just yunning yes, so yearning and the fulfillment.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
So yeah.
Speaker 5 (55:39):
I also wanted to call out there's a lot of
people mad about that sex scene actually, because right before
that is when Jinks tells her sister like I'm gonna
go presumably like do something rash and die by suicide,
and people are mad like, what is the whiplash I'm
getting here? Why would I hear that from her sister
and then immediately go have sex with Kate. I think
(56:02):
people are missing that. That is not what I thinks
Jinks is going to go do of course it's not.
Speaker 3 (56:08):
Also, I just want to say, like, have you I'm
sorry to people on the internet, I I love this
view if this is the case, But have you never
been emotionally unstable? Have you never?
Speaker 6 (56:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (56:23):
I love that you happy, but you have you never
gone bad news? And then tried to seek o dokamine.
Speaker 5 (56:30):
Like yeah, yeah, but to be clear, there was no
indication that VI knew that.
Speaker 3 (56:36):
And she said like, you've got to walk away, and
then literally walked away after locking her in a prison cell.
I think I think that that is there, and also like, yeah,
get to being in your mid thirties and you maybe
will relate to that scene more.
Speaker 6 (56:48):
Also, King Princess just started playing, and there was like
what else are we gonna do?
Speaker 1 (56:51):
We have to yeah, us here together? Yeah, come on.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
I mean we can get We can talk about Dune
Prophecy episode two for sec thing that goes on too long,
carry character story beats at all, But that's not other episode.
Speaking of other episodes, Tomorrow we have a boot leading
us through Dune Prophecy episode.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
One two, and on Thursday, we.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
Celebrate Thanksgiving with our favorite Thanksgiving movies. And next week
we begin Robert egger Is retrospective with the weekly special
extra episode as we prepare for Nosferatu and begin our
year end roundups.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
That's it for this episode.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
Thanks for listening, Thanks for joining us, producer, thanks for
joining us.
Speaker 3 (57:37):
Guys.
Speaker 5 (57:37):
Bye, We enjoyed your one.
Speaker 4 (57:41):
Oh God No.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
X Ray Vision is hosted by Jason Consupson and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
producers are Joel Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer
is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and
Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman
and Heidi our discord moderator.
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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