February 2, 2022 • 37 mins
What do you get when you combine the raw talent of Leighton Meester, the edginess of Ed Westwick, and the elegance of Kelly Rutherford? Well, it’s Gossip Girl of course... but how do you get that incredible group together in the first place? That’s where casting director David Rapaport comes in. He talks with Jessica all about the casting process, how he turned down a major network show for a little pilot on a little network called the CW, and how a little change to your hair might just change your whole life as an actor.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
My name is David Rappaport, and I was the casting
director for Gossip Girl. Welcome back, listeners, do your one
and only source into all things gossip Girl. You know
you love it. XO x O. Hey guys, welcome to
(00:29):
another episode of XO XO. I'm Jessica's door, and today
we are lucky to have the guy who helped bring
our whole rock star cast together, the amazing casting director
David Rappaport. He's the reason we have Blake Lively as
Serena Layton, Mester for Blair, Chase Crawford for Nate Archibald,
and so many other characters that you know and love.
So David is an absolute superstar in the industry. You guys,
(00:52):
if you don't know that, you are going to hear
just how phenomenal he is. He has cast pretty much
every major show on the CW, like Gossip Girl, Riverdale,
The Flash nine, O two, and Oh. He also did
the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and the insanely popular series
You starring Gossip Girls Berry on Penn Badgeley. His credits
just go on and on, and you'll hear in this
(01:13):
conversation just how thoughtful and how real and how kind
he is. He gets the best out of people, and
he really cares about putting these groups together, and I
think that's why he is just so brilliant at it.
I know you guys are gonna love this conversation and
learn as much as I did, so I won't make
you wait any longer. Here he is David Rappaport. Hello, Hello,
(01:48):
Hi Jess, Oh my goodness. Are you doing I'm doing well.
This is like so time appropriate, like through microphones in
a screen to different places. And you're in Calgary right now.
I am. Yeah. My boyfriend plays for the Flames, so
we're up here. And I thought this would be a
fun project to work on. And you'm a daughter to write, Yes,
(02:11):
my little Gary, thank you. Yeah, well you look great,
so do you. I'm always so like intimidated by you.
You're so beautiful. Thank you for having me on this.
It's it means so much to me because this is
such a special show obviously, I mean to so many people,
not just the cast, but the fans across the world. Um,
(02:34):
let's just start off. You're from Boston, Yes, from Boston,
And just tell me a little bit about yourself so
that the fans listening. I know all of this, but
just so you guys have a little background on a man.
So I am. I'm a casting director and I started
off about twenty years ago now, if you can believe it,
as a casting intern. And in casting you go from
intern to assistant to associate to casting director. And I was.
(02:59):
I was working as an intern and an assistant and
an associate to Mally Finn, who was one of the
biggest cast and directors of her time. She did Titanic,
the Matrix, eight Mile, bunch of things like that, just
to name a few. But she what she was really
known for in the community and in the industry was
for doing big searches. And in her time, she did
a lot of searches for young kids like Brett Renfrow
(03:21):
and the Client and the boy in Terminator too, and
a lot of like youth searches. And so I learned
all of that from her. And can I ask this,
how did you meet her? Like? How did that introduction happen? Um? She?
I met her through an internship I was doing with
Emerson College. It was an internship for credit and she
(03:41):
was the coolest, most grounded woman when I met her.
The day that I met her, she was sitting on
the floor and sweatpants going through headshots. I thought she
was an intern too. I didn't really know, like she
had no air or ego about her. Um, and she
just she loved actors. She loved actors and she instilled
that in me. And she she loved the search and
Gossip Girl was the first show that I booked as
(04:03):
a casting director outside of Malli. So, um, I I
really learned everything from her. And she was a high
school theater teacher before that. She came to Hollywood and
had her own experience, you know, become a successful casting
director for sure. I mean, yeah, when you say that name,
it brings me like oh, because she was just she's
a legend and also had something to do with you
(04:24):
becoming a legend to so many people and actors and
and us. So that's just like awesome all the way around. Um,
when you were going to school, it do you go
to school to be a casting director? I know that
might be a silly question, but for for anyone listening
that maybe wants to get into that, what what did
you study? I can tell you my whole, the whole backstory. Um.
So I was a generalist at Emerson College, which basically
(04:47):
was film, TV, radio, and at that time, the Internet,
which was called new media because it was new to everybody.
I'm aging myself a little bit here, but um, they
did not have any sort of casting major at school,
didn't how many casting classes. I really didn't know what
casting was, and I sort of fell into it. To
be honest, I was a little bit lost in college.
All the kids at my school were very, very focused.
(05:09):
They were either going to be actors, directors, cinematographers would
have you, and I just knew I wanted to be
in l A. I wanted to be in Hollywood. I
wanted to be on a set. I want to be
a part of production. But I didn't really know how
or what I wanted to do. And I luckily got
an internship with a guy named Kevin Fantasy who did
local casting in Boston, and I sort of fell in
(05:29):
love with the process of casting. You get to meet
so many people, you get to interview people, all different
kinds of people, and you're in the beginning stages of
bringing a story to life. You're reading the script, getting
all the information and like really putting the puzzle pieces together.
You know, that's a big part of it because it
works on the page are one thing, and then there's
(05:49):
so many different pieces. The studio has their vision of
the characters. And then you know, as an actor coming in,
I feel a certain way of how I need to
read Vanessa, but how you see it and how the
head of Warner Brothers sees it, you know, and the
casting director really has to put on their studio hat,
their their actor hat, their producer because you also need
to help direct the actors in the room if we're
(06:11):
a little off or hey, I'm just gonna let you know,
just like the studio is really looking for this and
you're bringing this out of the character, but can you
add that exactly? And sometimes to be honest, you know,
we're casting, we're doing auditions because we don't know what
we're looking for. You know, there's something on the page
that says we're looking for Serena vander Woodson. She's blonde,
she's twenty, she's that's it. We get a breakdown from
(06:31):
the producers, we get a script. I have an idea
in my head, they have an idea in their heads.
My job really is to be the liaison between the
studio producers, agents, managers, actors and kind of oversee the
whole process that ends up getting us all on the
same page and finding that one perfect actor that everyone thinks, Oh,
I couldn't think of anyone else for that role except
for Late Lively. Let's say, with Gossip Girl. Was there
(06:53):
when you got the character breakdowns for Nate Archibald, Chuck Bass,
Jenny Humphrey, Dan Humphrey, Yes, Serena vander Woodson, Blair Waldorf
for any of those, did you right away or like,
I know who this person is? No, not at all.
The only person I thought of initially was Blake for Serena,
and she was the only person I thought of for Serena,
(07:14):
much like an actor. I went in for a meeting
on Gossip Girl, and I met with Josh and Stephanie,
the creators. I I went in with a book of pictures,
and I did come up with ideas. I said, this
is who I sort of picture for Blair and for
Nat and for Chop. I don't know that there was
anyone that was in that book that ended up being cast,
with the exception of Blake as Serena. She really was
the only one I thought of. She was kind of
(07:34):
at that time, the ultimate kind of a girl. It
was her lessons, her presence, her look, her vibe, her
acting ability would have you and to me, she just
matched the character so perfectly. I mean, she knocked it
out of the park too. Oh she did, she did,
and she became this movie star. She just you know,
she was. She was perfect for it and didn't um
(07:55):
didn't Layton audition for Serena and someone realized, No, you're
definitely the Blair, you know what. I don't remember that specifically,
I definitely remember I read with her um for Blair,
and I think if you YouTube, some of the auditions
got online. I don't know how they did, but you
can hear my voice, I think reading with her, which
(08:15):
is kind of funny. I mean her too, she's just phenomenal.
Oh she was great. She was great, and she walks
into the room and she just has such a presence
and it's such a star. And that was such an
exciting fine for us. Um. I don't think I knew
later and before that, she wasn't in my book that
I presented to Josh and Stephanie. So I was really
excited to discover her in a way. She had worked before,
but discover her for this role, I guess yes, and
(08:36):
she just um, I mean Blair is such I mean,
like when you think of Gossip Girl, I see Blair's headband. Absolutely.
I mean everyone brought such a good layer and color
to the show, for sure, but Blair and Chuck were
just so their their characters were so like wait what that.
I just feel like they brought a little extra spice
(08:59):
and that's a surprise. I mean you sort of hope
for that, but you never really know if that's going
to happen. And that's something that they had, that immediate chemistry,
and that exploded on set and with the writers and
when have you who ended up writing more for them,
And I was exciting and they were kind of, like
I always said, like our Rachel and Ross like you.
You at first didn't know about it. I just rewatched
a bit of the show and at first I'm like, wait,
(09:21):
I didn't remember this was the episode that they slept
together in. And then it keeps, you know, and you
didn't really know where it was going to go. Obviously
it was so early on, but then as it does,
you die for them to be together. And it's a
real testament to Add and Layton as actors because their
characters are are not necessarily the most likable people. They
do some really nasty things, but you feel for them.
(09:43):
You're right. There was a lot of things with Chuck
and Blair where you're like, oh, really, that's nasty, but
the way they played it, they kept pulling you in.
It's like Frank from Shameless. You're like, you're an alcoholic
horrible dad. But the way he played the character, you
like root for him. And that's a real testament to
the actors. Absolutely talking about that. Chuck Bass is such
(10:04):
uh so many people's favorite. How was that casting process?
Because he has a crazy, thick British accent. He was
like living in England at the time, and I just
think even like he has such a unique cool look.
Oh he was, I'll tell you. He was the only
one we considered. He initially read for Nate, but there
was something a little bit more dark and mischievous about him.
(10:28):
I think, just off the page, Well, Chuck Bass or
like Chuck Bass is edgy. Nate is like not ugy,
no exactly, And we brought him in for for Chuck
and it was like, oh, that's a no brainer. There's
no one that we need to test him opposite, like
he just embodies that character. Did he come in with
his accent or did he come in with an American accent?
(10:48):
He did both. He did both, and I remember discussing it,
but I know they wanted to keep it American because
things were different back in the day, and it was
you know, they they wanted them all to have, you know,
to sound similar, m to have a similar upbringing. That's
also like a whole another thing you have to add of,
like why is Chuck Bass have an accent and live
on the Upper East Side. I guess you could do
(11:09):
it in one scene or one episode, but it is
a whole another layer and they didn't want to do
that for whatever reason. But um, but he actually so
ed coming from London, didn't have a visa to work
in the States, and his visa did not come through
until I think that either the day before or the
day of his first day of filming on set, and
so the studio said to us, understandably, we need to
(11:29):
look for a backup or recast this role because if
the visa does not come through in time, you cannot
shoot him. Yo. I that's like visa stuff is a
very serious thing, and I get that, but let's be honest.
No one else was going to play Chuck Bass like
Ed Westwick did. No, there was no way, and Josh
and Stephanie would, to their credit, would not even look
at other tapes that I was sending them, and I
would say to them, you guys, like my job was
(11:51):
on the line, we have to recast this role because
if he's not on, like, we are not legally allowed
to use him, and they would not watch the tapes
in the studio, and network are checking in with me
saying like, who do we have who are we going
to test? And I was like, I don't I don't
have anyone, Like, they won't respond to me, and luckily
they stuck it through and Ed's visa came through and
he was available, And I mean, I could not imagine
anyone in that room. Besides, I don't think anyone who
(12:13):
liked the show watched the show as a fan of
the show. I think they'd all agree with us. Can
I ask you a question. I'm curious, you know, having
(12:33):
watched the show, I've been a fan and then joining it, Like,
what was that like for you? So when I do
you know my cast in experience or what happened, Yes,
a little bit with the barbecue. Yeah, so my friend
Nathaniel and Adam we're going to barbecue. I end up
going with them. I was kind of in a weird
funk of wanting to move home. I was just kind
of over l a and I hadn't booked something in
(12:56):
a minute, and I kind of felt like everyone was using.
People are always wanting to know what did you do
or what could you do for me? And being from
the Midwest, I was just kind of like, I don't
like how this feels. So I was ready to like
go and and here's the thing. This is also a
good lesson that I learned in life. When it gets hard,
the easiest thing is to be like, all right, I'm done,
I'm gonna go. So I ended up sticking it out.
(13:19):
But this was at the time where I was within
those couple of weeks going to move home. They picked
me up. We go to this barbecue and we were
just eating and talking and hanging. And then a couple
of days later, my manager called and said, what what
did you do this weekend? And I said, I was
at a barbecue. I went to a movie and I said, um,
why what's up? And she said, well, this pilot that
is going to launch or you know, get ready to
(13:40):
air on the c W. There's a couple episodes, like
three or four episodes that they want to see you for.
She's like, you were at the creator of the O
c And and Gossip Girl, and I'm like wow, And
I thought it was kind of wild that the entire
time we were at that barbecue nothing came up about it. Um,
which is also kind of gangster too, you know what
I mean. Josh and Stephanie. So I auditioned in I
(14:00):
felt like it went pretty well. They called back and said, actually,
you know, they're going to go with someone that they
have in New York right now because it was starting
to film like that week, like that or that next one.
It was a real quick turnaround. And I said, well,
can you get notes? I would like to learn because
if it doesn't go well for me in an audition,
I want to know the notes so that I can
bring it to the next one. And she said, they
actually didn't have notes on your read. They kind of
(14:23):
feel like you looked a little bit similar to the
girls cast. So I looked up like, I looked up
Laton and I looked up Taylor, and I'm like, we
don't look anything alike. You know, I have a mixed background.
So I said to my manager, if that's true, if
that's really what the note was, then send pictures of
my hair curly. My hair was straight, no makeup at
the barbecue. And then they saw it. I got it,
(14:43):
went and did the three to four episodes, and then
shortly after that they asked me to be a series regular.
So that barbecue really changed my life. Barbecue and I
remember being like barbecues in l A get on my
nerves sometimes everyone's just talking about themselves and what they do.
And it ended up being a really fun one with
a very nice, genuine people, and that, yeah, changed my life.
(15:07):
So it's funny. I'm interested. I always like when I
hear Josh's side of it, because he's like, I just
opened the door and you were standing between these two guys,
and I'm like, that's Vanessa. I'm like, really, wow, that's crazy,
that's crazy. Look. I always tell actors too, And in
terms of auditions, like you're never auditioning for the role
at hand, You're not always auditioning for the role at hand,
I should say, because if you're meeting a casting director
or producers, likely they're doing so many other projects and
(15:28):
some of their things are coming up that you they'll
keep you in mind for other stuff. And for me specifically,
I met with Warner Brothers two years before Gossip Girl
is ever a thing, and I have one of the
best meetings of my entire career, and I was like,
oh my god, they're gonna hire me. I want to
cast all the pilots. I didn't hear from them for
two years, but they remembered me, and the first call
they called me on was Gossip Girl. So you know,
(15:50):
it's it's worth putting yourself out there and going out
and meeting people and auditioning and what have you. You
were probably shocked to get that call two years later.
I thought they forgot about me. I mean, I was
shocked that they did didn't hire me two years before
it that I was even more shocked that they called
me two years later. So, and that's why there are
some actors I've been reading for years that I will
you know, I'll read them when they're in their teens
(16:10):
and then hire them in their twenties and it's that's
just how it works. It's it's a business that just
hopefully we're in it all together. We're rooting for each other,
and hopefully we'll all keep working together for a long time.
And a big thing with casting and I think are
like auditions. What people have told me a lot throughout
the years is everyone's rooting for you. No one wants
you to go in and mess up or not do well.
(16:30):
Like everyone wants to see a performance that's good. And
I think some actors should like take that because I
remember the first few times I heard that. I'm like,
that's a good feeling. Not that I'm I'm thinking they
want me to mess up, but it kind of like
eases you to know, like, listen, everyone just wants to
see something fun here, just going and have fun. Absolutely,
And I've said this before but selfishly and I'll admit
(16:51):
it again, like actors make me look good. I want
them to come in and do a good job so
they answer the problem for me and for the producers
and like, oh my god, look how good I m.
I brought in the most amazing actors. And now we've
cast this role in two weeks instead of ten. We
really do want you to do well. I just remember
the first time someone told me that. I'm like, that
makes sense, but so out of for the pilot, you
(17:12):
guys cast Serena first. I think we actually cast Taylor first,
if I remember correctly. Okay, because that that's also a thing.
This was like shocking to me years ago when I
found this out. Sometimes too, when they cast one person,
they kind of cast around so that not everyone looks
super similar, or the height with everyone is not you know,
(17:34):
so someone's not so much shorter or taller. I don't
know if that's still a thing anymore, but that definitely
was when I first moved to l A, because sometimes
they'd be like, you kind of look too much, like,
you know, there's another girl with brown hair and green eyes,
and I'm like, okay, I'm probably not getting the role
then to play her friend. We cast Blake before we
cast Layton, and Layton had blonde hair at the time.
(17:54):
So it's funny that you told me that hair story,
because so much about Blake being cast and Laton being
cast was about their hair or hair styles, because Blake's
hair was kind of wavy, and some people said, you know,
we don't see Blake lively as an Upper east Side
Manhattan girl because she has a sort of wavy hair,
and so we had to do a whole screen test
with her with very straight hair so she could look
(18:16):
a little bit more like people assumed an Upper east
Side girl would look like. And then it's funny because
then she ends up having becoming famous for her wavy,
her waving locks like a stable Blake's hair. It's like
everyone's dream. They're like, how did you do it? Where
did you get? Like? They love that. That's that's funny.
It was crazy. And uh, and Layton was blonde. I
(18:37):
forgot that Layton was blonde, Like I, you know, I
still don't picture her that way. We had to do
a screen test with her just to see her hair die,
to see how it looked. It's funny because I think
some people are able to envision that and some people weren't.
And Josh Schwartz, you know, was the one who really
stood up and said, I have no issue seeing Blake
as a New York girl. He's like, I, you know,
(18:57):
he had just cast me Barton on the Oath miss
from the Upper east Side, but he Castor as a
sunny California girl, and it's TV and people believed it
and they costumed her the right way, and you know,
it's uh, it's sometimes it takes doing those screen tests
to prove what you see or feel in your heart,
your gut to executives sometimes right, for sure. I mean
it's so fascinating that something like hair even though it's
(19:18):
a big deal, but you wouldn't think it's like changing
cast are not going to give a role to someone
or not do that, you know. And then another interesting
casting story is Jennifer Lawrence audition for Serena vander Woods
in correct, yes, which is wild to me. I mean
there was I go back and there were so many
people that are auditioned for for that and when I
think about which is actually kind of funny too. We
(19:39):
did the Gossip Girl spinoff pilot that start Britney Snow
Britney Snow and Kristin Ridder, thank you, um. And I
remember for that, Dakota Johnson came in and Rooney Mara
and a lot of other women who were now like
kind of big names but at the time didn't have
that kind of stature. And you know who did the
best read for that? I'll tell you because I think
your friends with you know, Dobrev. That was one of
(20:01):
the best auditions I had ever seen, and for that
role specifically. And I remember calling the CW because this
was before she booked Vampire for the spinoff. I think
she had booked Vampire Diaries that year. I called them
and said, look, I just read this girl. She has
a super best friend. Yeah, you look like Kelly Rutherford
because she was supposed to be a young Kelly Rutherford.
(20:22):
So I don't know how we would cast her, but
you like, she needs to be under radar. You guys
have defined something for her. And I just remember thinking,
I'm going to like think about this girl in a
couple of years and be like, oh god, I miss
that opportunity. She was so incredible. But those are the
auditions that stick with you. And had she not booked
Vampire Diaries, I would have brought her for the next thing,
right and then. And then that's again how sometimes you know,
she probably as an actor was like bummed that it
(20:43):
didn't go further, because that happens. And I remember my
mom being like, when one door closes, another one opens.
I'm like, okay, Mom, you have to tell me that
because you're my mother super irritated that I didn't get it.
But a lot of times things like that in life
do happen like that. And with Nina, I mean, Vampire
Diaries changed her life and she got to go and
play three different roles, right, But that's awesome to hear
(21:05):
just because she didn't look like Kelly Rutherford. You know,
it's like, it's crazy, it's wild. And how about that
with like Kelly and any of the parents, Like who
was the first or did you guys obviously have to
go off of getting Serena to match what her mom
would look like. Yeah, we had to do Serena to
match the mom. And Kelly, I remember, came into audition
and she had her baby, Like she came in with
(21:26):
the stroller, and I think like one of my assistants
held the baby in the other room while she was auditioning.
And and that's like, it's hard to audition. I can't
imagine how actors do it like that. You just you
have to drive all over town and be available and memorize,
you know, fifteen pages of sides. When you have a
young child, it's it's a wild kind of crazy. Yeah,
And there was like article I read about you just
(21:48):
singing your praises, and it was saying that you also
had someone else in mind for Dan Humphrey, which is
funny because then we think about it, you're like, no
one else is Dan humfree but pen But can you
tell us that story? Yeah? Absolutely. I was obsessed with
this kid, Aldon ironright, who a lot of you probably
know from the Star Wars movies. Now. He was at,
oh god, what's the school over here? He was at
(22:10):
one of those schools in l A. And I think
I had um seen him in a play or something,
and I remember I really desperately wanted to come in
for this role, and he actually passed on it because
his parents said, we wanted to go to college, and
we don't want him to do TV. We wanted to
do movies if anything. And I called his mom and
spent an hour on the phone with his mom and
I said, look, I think Blake had just put one
of those big schools on the hold. And I said, look,
(22:31):
this is an opportunity as an actor to learn with
other amazing actors in New York. Please give him this opportunity,
Please let him come in. I was talking to her
about myself, about Josh Schwartz about Warner Brothers just making her,
you know, feel safe and what have you. And I
went through this whole thing to get Aldon to come in,
and he came in. He did a phenomenal, phenomenal audition.
I thought he was such a star. And the producers
(22:52):
rightfully so just said he's too short for Blake, like
he could maybe play the brother, but I don't see
him being the love and we go back to now
it's a high thing. Yeah, it was literally the height.
It was just he just feels too short. He committe
play a brother, but we had to cast locally New
York for the brother. So Alden went off and did
his you know, have his amazing career. And pen Pen,
(23:12):
I think literally came in like the last week before
before we started shooting. So was he the last one
of them, was the last one to be cast. Yeah,
as far as I remember of the series regulars. Yeah, yeah,
he was so easy. He was just pat you know,
like he always even about him and very cool, so sweet,
and he always like because I had a majority of
(23:32):
my scenes were with him, he just always seems so
like effortless in doing it. And he had a lot
of a lot of dialogue, a lot of you know,
he was always rambling, is what we always said Dan
was doing, and he always just had a lot to
say and he would just say it. Sometimes I'd be
done with the scene and I'm like, I don't know
how you just did that because it was just a
lot of words, and you made it so easy and
(23:54):
so nice and just so natural. He's like a great again,
everyone really is. Just they all brought such a cool
vibe to their characters. Oh absolutely. And it's funny because
I think when he auditioned, he had if we're talking
about hair again, let's go back to it, he had
the hair that he has now on you, which is
kind of like like bigger and fuller. And when I
(24:16):
saw the pilot because I wasn't on set when they
shot it, and I'm like, oh my god, what they
do to his hair because it was really really short,
he looked amazing, but it looks so different. So it's
funny to kind of see, um, you know again with
the hair changed that for the pilot as well, So
it's not all casting decisions are about hair, but it
just happened to be here. But also too, he's like
such a good looking guy like he pulled off both
(24:38):
very well. Like when I watch you, I'm like, wow, okay,
you look great and that buzz cut like sweet, yeah,
super hot? Sup. Why do you think and not just
(25:00):
because you cast everyone, because that's a part of it,
but why do you think the cast had such good chemistry?
Because you cast a bunch of young adults that do
a pilot in New York City, don't know each other
at all, and a lot of people's first big job
is that just they were just that good of actors
that they're like, we'll just going to bring our a
(25:20):
game and kill it or and by the way, I
know all of you know, I worked with all them.
Everyone is super nice and have great personalities. Offset Um,
but what do you think was the key to that?
I think, Um, you know, look, I not the patsils
in the back, but I think we did do a
good job of kind of matching the essence of the
character to the person in some ways. And they were
not not to say that these people were their characters.
(25:42):
They're obviously all playing roles and what have you, but
the essence of them was there and I think they
you know, it's it's one of those things that you
hope for in every show that you cast. I'll be
honest with you. You You know, you when you make a pilot,
you usually audition actors with maybe two or three scenes.
At most two or three scenes from the pilot. You
don't necessarily know what they're going to do in series
(26:02):
or what's expected of them, and so you really kind
of hope for the best. And I you know, we
got lucky. We got very lucky. Right. That was a
question I wanted to ask you. When you are reading
a pilot or a movie, what do you look for
in the scenes that you're going to audition the actors,
Because here's a big thing. You're getting ready to sign
on some actors to play these roles that potentially at
(26:24):
the time you don't know, but could go on for
four or five, six years. So these are going to
be characters that are going to live in people's living rooms,
beyond people's computer screens. And you you narrow it down
to three scenes of like a hundred scenes, these people
thousands of scenes they could be doing, you know what
I mean, So what do you pick for these actors
to come in an audition? Because you're picking three scenes,
(26:44):
Like I said to deliver years of entertainment to people exactly. Well,
you're really looking for the range of an actor. You're
looking for different colors throughout the pilot to show as
much as you can from that character. And it really
the casting process is a process like we're bringing people
up to five, six, seven, eight times um over the
period of ten weeks, audition them on their own, audition
(27:05):
with other actors to kind of test chemistry. So you're
really trying to gauge as best you can if they
are going to if they are it, if they're the
right thing, if they're going to last the five six years.
It's it's kind of like getting married, I say sometimes,
like there's no way to know when you first meet
someone if you are going to have a lifelong commitment
with that person. That's the intention, I guess, as is
the intention to cast a patent that you'll have these
(27:26):
people on for six years. But there's really no way
to know, and sometimes you get lucky and sometimes it
doesn't work right. And then so for um, for the pilot,
did you guys have any chemistry? Reads Like at that point,
you guys weren't aware that Chuck and Blair we're going
to be this major arc throughout the show. Serena and
Dan also are, but they also there was the chemistry
(27:49):
and the vibe in the pilot, So did they have
a chemistry read? As far as I remember, and I
could be wrong, but as far as I remember, nobody
had a chemistry read. I want to say, maybe Blake
and Layton did one scene together, um, but none of
the guys and the girls had chemistry reaes together. I
think we got really lucky with those. That also might
be because they knew that everyone was going to be
all over on the show, so they're like, everyone just
(28:10):
asked that chemistry period. Basically, yeah, exactly. Let me ask
you this, when did you know that show was going
to be a hit or what happened that you're like, oh,
this is this is it? That's a good question. So
when I got offered Gossip Girl, I was also offered
a show on another major network. It was a much
bigger network at the time, and they told me I
(28:31):
had to choose between the show they offered me and
Gossip Girl, and I just thought the Gossip Girl script
was incredible. I just thought it was so zeitgeist and poppy,
and it was something I would want to watch. And
so essentially for my first big job, I was passing
on a huge studio to do what at the time
was a very small network and a smaller show. And
see a lot of people would be like, oh my god,
(28:52):
that's such a risk, such a risk. But everyone that's listening, guys,
sometimes taking those risks are all what it's about. It
made my whole career. Were you scared? I was terrified,
And that studio told me that would never worked with
me again, and they and they haven't worked with me again.
Well I think I think you're just continued to work,
you know, And I made a home at CW and
(29:14):
so many other places since then. But um, well you have.
But with c W then you did Arrow the New
nine O two one. No, I mean the list goes
on and on Riverdale. I mean, you just but here's
the thing. Everyone there's like, listen, he he took what
we gave him, he put it on his own. Little
twist was great with the actors. Helped in the room.
You just did a lot to help them make a
(29:34):
bunch of shows that were hits for them. That's got
to feel pretty damn good. Yeah, it feels great. It
feels great. I mean, my favorite part of of casting
I really missed now because of self tapes. It's working
in the room with the actor and directing them and
helping them kind of build a performance and giving them
confidence and then going for director and producers and so
that part I missed. But yeah, I love working on
(29:56):
shows that are part of pop culture. I love reading
about them in magazines. And the way that Gossip Girls
specifically exploded was that was overwhelming. I had no concept
that I was going to be as big as it was,
and I don't think I really had a hit like
that again, probably until Riverdale, you know, which was greg
brilliante show. And Greg has given me so many incredible
opportunities on c W and outside of c w M
(30:18):
with all the superhero shows like Arrow and Flash and
Supergirl and Legs of Tomorrow and You, which is on
Netflix with Pem Badgley, which I think was the next show.
Yeah he did after Um, after Gossip Girl, so it's
you know, keeping it all in the family is really exciting. Totally.
So you decided not to take the other job with
a big studio that was bigger than c W at
the time because you just felt you just the words
(30:41):
on the page made you have a certain vibe and
feel and you're like, I'm gonna just go for this. Correct.
I had a feeling it would be something special. I
didn't know that it would be big, but I knew
that it would be special, right, And then it was both.
I also find it there's some things when I watched
this show that there was just some really good performances.
I told some of my producers like, I'm a little
(31:03):
like shock that no one got nominated for. Like, I
know we got a lot of teen Choice things and
stuff like that, but a Golden Glober and Emmy like.
There were some performances some of the seasons that I
truly think deserved a little more light on it. But
at that time, c W, even though they had hit
shows and people so many millions of viewers were tuning in,
(31:24):
c W, wasn't getting nominated. No, And then there's still
not In some ways, I feel like on some shows
they are, but I feel like, um, you know, it's
looked at it sort of like a youth network. But
I really am so impressed with so many of the
performances on that show specifically, and so many the ones
in their shows that I'm working on now, and it's
it seems unfortunate, unfair that they get looked over because
the material is pretty pretty heavy. It's pretty deep. Yeah,
(31:46):
I mean some of the things that we touch on
and Gossip Girl, like addiction and you know, suicide and
you know, divorces with family, a lot of deep stuff,
which I think maybe you don't yeah maybe then you
know on the c W it's teenagers, you know, you
just it was overlooked, but I did. I watched a
couple episodes and I'm like, wow, that's like a scene
that's definitely I could see watching the Golden Globes and
(32:08):
that be one of the scenes that that person is
nominated for. Um, was it Jane Jane the Virgin was
was that? I feel like that was that was their
first one? Yeah, and that was phenomenal too, and I
was pumped for her, like you go, oh, absolutely, absolutely, yeah,
it's um. We were nominated for a Radios Award, which
(32:29):
is like the biggest casting award that year for Gossip Girl,
and that was the first time I was nominated for
an Audios and enomenal mad Men and Damages and a
couple other shows and we didn't win, but I felt
so proud to be amongst that group of people and
to be recognized for the work that we did, because again,
a lot of c W shows were not getting recognized
(32:51):
like that, and this was a really you know, for
that time, it was a very special, specific kind of cast,
and it was it was really nice to be included. Well,
I guess we know that. I clearly loved everyone that
you picked for the show, and I think everyone across
the world who watched the show would agree. Um, I'm
gonna play one game with you. I love games, and
it's it's a quote game, so I'm going to do
(33:12):
some quotes. There was some for some of the guests
that are coming on in the next couple of weeks
that I read that Vanessa said, and I didn't know.
So you're okay, okay, alright, alright, okay. Has our bad
Girl really gone good? Oh? I mean that's Gossip Girl.
(33:35):
Has not Bad Girl really gone good? Yes? Good? That one?
Can we end it now because there's not many parts? Okay,
quote too, I think even your underdoing it would be
overdoing it, Blair, I thought that too. Quote to please.
(33:56):
I think even your underdoing it would be overdoing it.
Ye oh wow, Dan okay, Serena was about their Christmas gifts. Oh, okay, okay.
Quote three, if you're going to be in this world,
be yourself in this world? Mm hmm. Who would have
(34:16):
said that? Can you give me a hint? Oh? You said,
if you're going to be in this world, be yourself
in this world. And that's a really good quote. It is.
It's good. Vanessa was very relatable. I mean, for that
the little small percentage of people that one live on
the Upper East Side and two are in this world
(34:38):
that gossip girl, you know, the glitz and the glam
and the money. I mean, Vanessa worked at a coffee shop.
Most kids aren't using a handbag to go to school
or driving a limo or that. Not a lot of
kids are experiencing that. So I do feel like Vanessa
kind of kept she grounded a little bit of that age.
I think, yeah, I for sure related to her character
(35:00):
lot because I didn't have all those things in high
school and still don't. And there's something beautiful and fun
about watching the fantasy of this this world full of money.
But to be able to kind of see yourself in
that world is super important. I'm so glad that she
was there. Yeah, Vanessa, she's she's such a little cutie.
There's definitely things that got on my nerves. But yeah,
(35:20):
that's okay. Okay, let's do the next quote. Okay, have
a little faith and if that doesn't work, have a
lot of mimosas. Oh um, oh god, this is so
I want to say, I'll go to Blair again. Okay,
let's play. I'm probably raw, have a little faith and
if that doesn't work, a lot of mimosas. Well. Done,
(35:44):
it was Blair? Who is that? Okay, good job? All right?
Last one? Oh few? Okay, people like me don't write
books they're written about. Oh, chuck, people like me don't
write books written about That was Chuck. You definitely heard
that one. Yeah, well you did really great. I was
(36:05):
really nervous. Yeah you did well. Um, well, it was
really great to have you on. I'm a huge fan
back at you, and I'm really excited for everyone who
will be listening to really know like all the hard
work and how much you had to do with putting
this together and what all goes into it, because this
is all a lot of stuff people don't know. Absolutely,
(36:27):
thank you for bringing me back to Gossip Girl. It's
been you know, a while, and it's it was a
really really special time and it's obviously such an incredible project.
You're awesome. This was like so wonderful. Uh well, I'm
sending you there. Thank you for having me. Thanks you
Can you imagine if Ed's visa didn't come through or
(36:51):
or Ted backed out, or if I moved back to
Wisconsin when I said I was going to. I mean,
I can't. I can't even think about it. You guys
so nuts. Casting is a lot of hard work that
a lot of people put in, but it's also just
a little bit of magic and luck that makes everything
come together so perfectly. And David, you really made that
magic happen on Gossip Girl. You really have a way
(37:13):
of putting people at ease and being so great to
talk to. So thank you for today. All right, guys,
until next time. X O x O x O x
O is produced by Propagate Content and Met Jessica's Or.
Our show is executive produced by Langley. Our producers are
(37:35):
Diego Tapia, Emily Carr, and Hannah Harris. Original music by
Moxie and Lune, and the episode was mixed by seth
ol Lansky,
My name is David Rappaport, and I was the casting
director for Gossip Girl. Welcome back, listeners, do your one
and only source into all things gossip Girl. You know
you love it. XO x O. Hey guys, welcome to
(00:29):
another episode of XO XO. I'm Jessica's door, and today
we are lucky to have the guy who helped bring
our whole rock star cast together, the amazing casting director
David Rappaport. He's the reason we have Blake Lively as
Serena Layton, Mester for Blair, Chase Crawford for Nate Archibald,
and so many other characters that you know and love.
So David is an absolute superstar in the industry. You guys,
(00:52):
if you don't know that, you are going to hear
just how phenomenal he is. He has cast pretty much
every major show on the CW, like Gossip Girl, Riverdale,
The Flash nine, O two, and Oh. He also did
the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and the insanely popular series
You starring Gossip Girls Berry on Penn Badgeley. His credits
just go on and on, and you'll hear in this
(01:13):
conversation just how thoughtful and how real and how kind
he is. He gets the best out of people, and
he really cares about putting these groups together, and I
think that's why he is just so brilliant at it.
I know you guys are gonna love this conversation and
learn as much as I did, so I won't make
you wait any longer. Here he is David Rappaport. Hello, Hello,
(01:48):
Hi Jess, Oh my goodness. Are you doing I'm doing well.
This is like so time appropriate, like through microphones in
a screen to different places. And you're in Calgary right now.
I am. Yeah. My boyfriend plays for the Flames, so
we're up here. And I thought this would be a
fun project to work on. And you'm a daughter to write, Yes,
(02:11):
my little Gary, thank you. Yeah, well you look great,
so do you. I'm always so like intimidated by you.
You're so beautiful. Thank you for having me on this.
It's it means so much to me because this is
such a special show obviously, I mean to so many people,
not just the cast, but the fans across the world. Um,
(02:34):
let's just start off. You're from Boston, Yes, from Boston,
And just tell me a little bit about yourself so
that the fans listening. I know all of this, but
just so you guys have a little background on a man.
So I am. I'm a casting director and I started
off about twenty years ago now, if you can believe it,
as a casting intern. And in casting you go from
intern to assistant to associate to casting director. And I was.
(02:59):
I was working as an intern and an assistant and
an associate to Mally Finn, who was one of the
biggest cast and directors of her time. She did Titanic,
the Matrix, eight Mile, bunch of things like that, just
to name a few. But she what she was really
known for in the community and in the industry was
for doing big searches. And in her time, she did
a lot of searches for young kids like Brett Renfrow
(03:21):
and the Client and the boy in Terminator too, and
a lot of like youth searches. And so I learned
all of that from her. And can I ask this,
how did you meet her? Like? How did that introduction happen? Um? She?
I met her through an internship I was doing with
Emerson College. It was an internship for credit and she
(03:41):
was the coolest, most grounded woman when I met her.
The day that I met her, she was sitting on
the floor and sweatpants going through headshots. I thought she
was an intern too. I didn't really know, like she
had no air or ego about her. Um, and she
just she loved actors. She loved actors and she instilled
that in me. And she she loved the search and
Gossip Girl was the first show that I booked as
(04:03):
a casting director outside of Malli. So, um, I I
really learned everything from her. And she was a high
school theater teacher before that. She came to Hollywood and
had her own experience, you know, become a successful casting
director for sure. I mean, yeah, when you say that name,
it brings me like oh, because she was just she's
a legend and also had something to do with you
(04:24):
becoming a legend to so many people and actors and
and us. So that's just like awesome all the way around. Um,
when you were going to school, it do you go
to school to be a casting director? I know that
might be a silly question, but for for anyone listening
that maybe wants to get into that, what what did
you study? I can tell you my whole, the whole backstory. Um.
So I was a generalist at Emerson College, which basically
(04:47):
was film, TV, radio, and at that time, the Internet,
which was called new media because it was new to everybody.
I'm aging myself a little bit here, but um, they
did not have any sort of casting major at school,
didn't how many casting classes. I really didn't know what
casting was, and I sort of fell into it. To
be honest, I was a little bit lost in college.
All the kids at my school were very, very focused.
(05:09):
They were either going to be actors, directors, cinematographers would
have you, and I just knew I wanted to be
in l A. I wanted to be in Hollywood. I
wanted to be on a set. I want to be
a part of production. But I didn't really know how
or what I wanted to do. And I luckily got
an internship with a guy named Kevin Fantasy who did
local casting in Boston, and I sort of fell in
(05:29):
love with the process of casting. You get to meet
so many people, you get to interview people, all different
kinds of people, and you're in the beginning stages of
bringing a story to life. You're reading the script, getting
all the information and like really putting the puzzle pieces together.
You know, that's a big part of it because it
works on the page are one thing, and then there's
(05:49):
so many different pieces. The studio has their vision of
the characters. And then you know, as an actor coming in,
I feel a certain way of how I need to
read Vanessa, but how you see it and how the
head of Warner Brothers sees it, you know, and the
casting director really has to put on their studio hat,
their their actor hat, their producer because you also need
to help direct the actors in the room if we're
(06:11):
a little off or hey, I'm just gonna let you know,
just like the studio is really looking for this and
you're bringing this out of the character, but can you
add that exactly? And sometimes to be honest, you know,
we're casting, we're doing auditions because we don't know what
we're looking for. You know, there's something on the page
that says we're looking for Serena vander Woodson. She's blonde,
she's twenty, she's that's it. We get a breakdown from
(06:31):
the producers, we get a script. I have an idea
in my head, they have an idea in their heads.
My job really is to be the liaison between the
studio producers, agents, managers, actors and kind of oversee the
whole process that ends up getting us all on the
same page and finding that one perfect actor that everyone thinks, Oh,
I couldn't think of anyone else for that role except
for Late Lively. Let's say, with Gossip Girl. Was there
(06:53):
when you got the character breakdowns for Nate Archibald, Chuck Bass,
Jenny Humphrey, Dan Humphrey, Yes, Serena vander Woodson, Blair Waldorf
for any of those, did you right away or like,
I know who this person is? No, not at all.
The only person I thought of initially was Blake for Serena,
and she was the only person I thought of for Serena,
(07:14):
much like an actor. I went in for a meeting
on Gossip Girl, and I met with Josh and Stephanie,
the creators. I I went in with a book of pictures,
and I did come up with ideas. I said, this
is who I sort of picture for Blair and for
Nat and for Chop. I don't know that there was
anyone that was in that book that ended up being cast,
with the exception of Blake as Serena. She really was
the only one I thought of. She was kind of
(07:34):
at that time, the ultimate kind of a girl. It
was her lessons, her presence, her look, her vibe, her
acting ability would have you and to me, she just
matched the character so perfectly. I mean, she knocked it
out of the park too. Oh she did, she did,
and she became this movie star. She just you know,
she was. She was perfect for it and didn't um
(07:55):
didn't Layton audition for Serena and someone realized, No, you're
definitely the Blair, you know what. I don't remember that specifically,
I definitely remember I read with her um for Blair,
and I think if you YouTube, some of the auditions
got online. I don't know how they did, but you
can hear my voice, I think reading with her, which
(08:15):
is kind of funny. I mean her too, she's just phenomenal.
Oh she was great. She was great, and she walks
into the room and she just has such a presence
and it's such a star. And that was such an
exciting fine for us. Um. I don't think I knew
later and before that, she wasn't in my book that
I presented to Josh and Stephanie. So I was really
excited to discover her in a way. She had worked before,
but discover her for this role, I guess yes, and
(08:36):
she just um, I mean Blair is such I mean,
like when you think of Gossip Girl, I see Blair's headband. Absolutely.
I mean everyone brought such a good layer and color
to the show, for sure, but Blair and Chuck were
just so their their characters were so like wait what that.
I just feel like they brought a little extra spice
(08:59):
and that's a surprise. I mean you sort of hope
for that, but you never really know if that's going
to happen. And that's something that they had, that immediate chemistry,
and that exploded on set and with the writers and
when have you who ended up writing more for them,
And I was exciting and they were kind of, like
I always said, like our Rachel and Ross like you.
You at first didn't know about it. I just rewatched
a bit of the show and at first I'm like, wait,
(09:21):
I didn't remember this was the episode that they slept
together in. And then it keeps, you know, and you
didn't really know where it was going to go. Obviously
it was so early on, but then as it does,
you die for them to be together. And it's a
real testament to Add and Layton as actors because their
characters are are not necessarily the most likable people. They
do some really nasty things, but you feel for them.
(09:43):
You're right. There was a lot of things with Chuck
and Blair where you're like, oh, really, that's nasty, but
the way they played it, they kept pulling you in.
It's like Frank from Shameless. You're like, you're an alcoholic
horrible dad. But the way he played the character, you
like root for him. And that's a real testament to
the actors. Absolutely talking about that. Chuck Bass is such
(10:04):
uh so many people's favorite. How was that casting process?
Because he has a crazy, thick British accent. He was
like living in England at the time, and I just
think even like he has such a unique cool look.
Oh he was, I'll tell you. He was the only
one we considered. He initially read for Nate, but there
was something a little bit more dark and mischievous about him.
(10:28):
I think, just off the page, Well, Chuck Bass or
like Chuck Bass is edgy. Nate is like not ugy,
no exactly, And we brought him in for for Chuck
and it was like, oh, that's a no brainer. There's
no one that we need to test him opposite, like
he just embodies that character. Did he come in with
his accent or did he come in with an American accent?
(10:48):
He did both. He did both, and I remember discussing it,
but I know they wanted to keep it American because
things were different back in the day, and it was
you know, they they wanted them all to have, you know,
to sound similar, m to have a similar upbringing. That's
also like a whole another thing you have to add of,
like why is Chuck Bass have an accent and live
on the Upper East Side. I guess you could do
(11:09):
it in one scene or one episode, but it is
a whole another layer and they didn't want to do
that for whatever reason. But um, but he actually so
ed coming from London, didn't have a visa to work
in the States, and his visa did not come through
until I think that either the day before or the
day of his first day of filming on set, and
so the studio said to us, understandably, we need to
(11:29):
look for a backup or recast this role because if
the visa does not come through in time, you cannot
shoot him. Yo. I that's like visa stuff is a
very serious thing, and I get that, but let's be honest.
No one else was going to play Chuck Bass like
Ed Westwick did. No, there was no way, and Josh
and Stephanie would, to their credit, would not even look
at other tapes that I was sending them, and I
would say to them, you guys, like my job was
(11:51):
on the line, we have to recast this role because
if he's not on, like, we are not legally allowed
to use him, and they would not watch the tapes
in the studio, and network are checking in with me
saying like, who do we have who are we going
to test? And I was like, I don't I don't
have anyone, Like, they won't respond to me, and luckily
they stuck it through and Ed's visa came through and
he was available, And I mean, I could not imagine
anyone in that room. Besides, I don't think anyone who
(12:13):
liked the show watched the show as a fan of
the show. I think they'd all agree with us. Can
I ask you a question. I'm curious, you know, having
(12:33):
watched the show, I've been a fan and then joining it, Like,
what was that like for you? So when I do
you know my cast in experience or what happened, Yes,
a little bit with the barbecue. Yeah, so my friend
Nathaniel and Adam we're going to barbecue. I end up
going with them. I was kind of in a weird
funk of wanting to move home. I was just kind
of over l a and I hadn't booked something in
(12:56):
a minute, and I kind of felt like everyone was using.
People are always wanting to know what did you do
or what could you do for me? And being from
the Midwest, I was just kind of like, I don't
like how this feels. So I was ready to like
go and and here's the thing. This is also a
good lesson that I learned in life. When it gets hard,
the easiest thing is to be like, all right, I'm done,
I'm gonna go. So I ended up sticking it out.
(13:19):
But this was at the time where I was within
those couple of weeks going to move home. They picked
me up. We go to this barbecue and we were
just eating and talking and hanging. And then a couple
of days later, my manager called and said, what what
did you do this weekend? And I said, I was
at a barbecue. I went to a movie and I said, um,
why what's up? And she said, well, this pilot that
is going to launch or you know, get ready to
(13:40):
air on the c W. There's a couple episodes, like
three or four episodes that they want to see you for.
She's like, you were at the creator of the O
c And and Gossip Girl, and I'm like wow, And
I thought it was kind of wild that the entire
time we were at that barbecue nothing came up about it. Um,
which is also kind of gangster too, you know what
I mean. Josh and Stephanie. So I auditioned in I
(14:00):
felt like it went pretty well. They called back and said, actually,
you know, they're going to go with someone that they
have in New York right now because it was starting
to film like that week, like that or that next one.
It was a real quick turnaround. And I said, well,
can you get notes? I would like to learn because
if it doesn't go well for me in an audition,
I want to know the notes so that I can
bring it to the next one. And she said, they
actually didn't have notes on your read. They kind of
(14:23):
feel like you looked a little bit similar to the
girls cast. So I looked up like, I looked up
Laton and I looked up Taylor, and I'm like, we
don't look anything alike. You know, I have a mixed background.
So I said to my manager, if that's true, if
that's really what the note was, then send pictures of
my hair curly. My hair was straight, no makeup at
the barbecue. And then they saw it. I got it,
(14:43):
went and did the three to four episodes, and then
shortly after that they asked me to be a series regular.
So that barbecue really changed my life. Barbecue and I
remember being like barbecues in l A get on my
nerves sometimes everyone's just talking about themselves and what they do.
And it ended up being a really fun one with
a very nice, genuine people, and that, yeah, changed my life.
(15:07):
So it's funny. I'm interested. I always like when I
hear Josh's side of it, because he's like, I just
opened the door and you were standing between these two guys,
and I'm like, that's Vanessa. I'm like, really, wow, that's crazy,
that's crazy. Look. I always tell actors too, And in
terms of auditions, like you're never auditioning for the role
at hand, You're not always auditioning for the role at hand,
I should say, because if you're meeting a casting director
or producers, likely they're doing so many other projects and
(15:28):
some of their things are coming up that you they'll
keep you in mind for other stuff. And for me specifically,
I met with Warner Brothers two years before Gossip Girl
is ever a thing, and I have one of the
best meetings of my entire career, and I was like,
oh my god, they're gonna hire me. I want to
cast all the pilots. I didn't hear from them for
two years, but they remembered me, and the first call
they called me on was Gossip Girl. So you know,
(15:50):
it's it's worth putting yourself out there and going out
and meeting people and auditioning and what have you. You
were probably shocked to get that call two years later.
I thought they forgot about me. I mean, I was
shocked that they did didn't hire me two years before
it that I was even more shocked that they called
me two years later. So, and that's why there are
some actors I've been reading for years that I will
you know, I'll read them when they're in their teens
(16:10):
and then hire them in their twenties and it's that's
just how it works. It's it's a business that just
hopefully we're in it all together. We're rooting for each other,
and hopefully we'll all keep working together for a long time.
And a big thing with casting and I think are
like auditions. What people have told me a lot throughout
the years is everyone's rooting for you. No one wants
you to go in and mess up or not do well.
(16:30):
Like everyone wants to see a performance that's good. And
I think some actors should like take that because I
remember the first few times I heard that. I'm like,
that's a good feeling. Not that I'm I'm thinking they
want me to mess up, but it kind of like
eases you to know, like, listen, everyone just wants to
see something fun here, just going and have fun. Absolutely,
And I've said this before but selfishly and I'll admit
(16:51):
it again, like actors make me look good. I want
them to come in and do a good job so
they answer the problem for me and for the producers
and like, oh my god, look how good I m.
I brought in the most amazing actors. And now we've
cast this role in two weeks instead of ten. We
really do want you to do well. I just remember
the first time someone told me that. I'm like, that
makes sense, but so out of for the pilot, you
(17:12):
guys cast Serena first. I think we actually cast Taylor first,
if I remember correctly. Okay, because that that's also a thing.
This was like shocking to me years ago when I
found this out. Sometimes too, when they cast one person,
they kind of cast around so that not everyone looks
super similar, or the height with everyone is not you know,
(17:34):
so someone's not so much shorter or taller. I don't
know if that's still a thing anymore, but that definitely
was when I first moved to l A, because sometimes
they'd be like, you kind of look too much, like,
you know, there's another girl with brown hair and green eyes,
and I'm like, okay, I'm probably not getting the role
then to play her friend. We cast Blake before we
cast Layton, and Layton had blonde hair at the time.
(17:54):
So it's funny that you told me that hair story,
because so much about Blake being cast and Laton being
cast was about their hair or hair styles, because Blake's
hair was kind of wavy, and some people said, you know,
we don't see Blake lively as an Upper east Side
Manhattan girl because she has a sort of wavy hair,
and so we had to do a whole screen test
with her with very straight hair so she could look
(18:16):
a little bit more like people assumed an Upper east
Side girl would look like. And then it's funny because
then she ends up having becoming famous for her wavy,
her waving locks like a stable Blake's hair. It's like
everyone's dream. They're like, how did you do it? Where
did you get? Like? They love that. That's that's funny.
It was crazy. And uh, and Layton was blonde. I
(18:37):
forgot that Layton was blonde, Like I, you know, I
still don't picture her that way. We had to do
a screen test with her just to see her hair die,
to see how it looked. It's funny because I think
some people are able to envision that and some people weren't.
And Josh Schwartz, you know, was the one who really
stood up and said, I have no issue seeing Blake
as a New York girl. He's like, I, you know,
(18:57):
he had just cast me Barton on the Oath miss
from the Upper east Side, but he Castor as a
sunny California girl, and it's TV and people believed it
and they costumed her the right way, and you know,
it's uh, it's sometimes it takes doing those screen tests
to prove what you see or feel in your heart,
your gut to executives sometimes right, for sure. I mean
it's so fascinating that something like hair even though it's
(19:18):
a big deal, but you wouldn't think it's like changing
cast are not going to give a role to someone
or not do that, you know. And then another interesting
casting story is Jennifer Lawrence audition for Serena vander Woods
in correct, yes, which is wild to me. I mean
there was I go back and there were so many
people that are auditioned for for that and when I
think about which is actually kind of funny too. We
(19:39):
did the Gossip Girl spinoff pilot that start Britney Snow
Britney Snow and Kristin Ridder, thank you, um. And I
remember for that, Dakota Johnson came in and Rooney Mara
and a lot of other women who were now like
kind of big names but at the time didn't have
that kind of stature. And you know who did the
best read for that? I'll tell you because I think
your friends with you know, Dobrev. That was one of
(20:01):
the best auditions I had ever seen, and for that
role specifically. And I remember calling the CW because this
was before she booked Vampire for the spinoff. I think
she had booked Vampire Diaries that year. I called them
and said, look, I just read this girl. She has
a super best friend. Yeah, you look like Kelly Rutherford
because she was supposed to be a young Kelly Rutherford.
(20:22):
So I don't know how we would cast her, but
you like, she needs to be under radar. You guys
have defined something for her. And I just remember thinking,
I'm going to like think about this girl in a
couple of years and be like, oh god, I miss
that opportunity. She was so incredible. But those are the
auditions that stick with you. And had she not booked
Vampire Diaries, I would have brought her for the next thing,
right and then. And then that's again how sometimes you know,
she probably as an actor was like bummed that it
(20:43):
didn't go further, because that happens. And I remember my
mom being like, when one door closes, another one opens.
I'm like, okay, Mom, you have to tell me that
because you're my mother super irritated that I didn't get it.
But a lot of times things like that in life
do happen like that. And with Nina, I mean, Vampire
Diaries changed her life and she got to go and
play three different roles, right, But that's awesome to hear
(21:05):
just because she didn't look like Kelly Rutherford. You know,
it's like, it's crazy, it's wild. And how about that
with like Kelly and any of the parents, Like who
was the first or did you guys obviously have to
go off of getting Serena to match what her mom
would look like. Yeah, we had to do Serena to
match the mom. And Kelly, I remember, came into audition
and she had her baby, Like she came in with
(21:26):
the stroller, and I think like one of my assistants
held the baby in the other room while she was auditioning.
And and that's like, it's hard to audition. I can't
imagine how actors do it like that. You just you
have to drive all over town and be available and memorize,
you know, fifteen pages of sides. When you have a
young child, it's it's a wild kind of crazy. Yeah,
And there was like article I read about you just
(21:48):
singing your praises, and it was saying that you also
had someone else in mind for Dan Humphrey, which is
funny because then we think about it, you're like, no
one else is Dan humfree but pen But can you
tell us that story? Yeah? Absolutely. I was obsessed with
this kid, Aldon ironright, who a lot of you probably
know from the Star Wars movies. Now. He was at,
oh god, what's the school over here? He was at
(22:10):
one of those schools in l A. And I think
I had um seen him in a play or something,
and I remember I really desperately wanted to come in
for this role, and he actually passed on it because
his parents said, we wanted to go to college, and
we don't want him to do TV. We wanted to
do movies if anything. And I called his mom and
spent an hour on the phone with his mom and
I said, look, I think Blake had just put one
of those big schools on the hold. And I said, look,
(22:31):
this is an opportunity as an actor to learn with
other amazing actors in New York. Please give him this opportunity,
Please let him come in. I was talking to her
about myself, about Josh Schwartz about Warner Brothers just making her,
you know, feel safe and what have you. And I
went through this whole thing to get Aldon to come in,
and he came in. He did a phenomenal, phenomenal audition.
I thought he was such a star. And the producers
(22:52):
rightfully so just said he's too short for Blake, like
he could maybe play the brother, but I don't see
him being the love and we go back to now
it's a high thing. Yeah, it was literally the height.
It was just he just feels too short. He committe
play a brother, but we had to cast locally New
York for the brother. So Alden went off and did
his you know, have his amazing career. And pen Pen,
(23:12):
I think literally came in like the last week before
before we started shooting. So was he the last one
of them, was the last one to be cast. Yeah,
as far as I remember of the series regulars. Yeah, yeah,
he was so easy. He was just pat you know,
like he always even about him and very cool, so sweet,
and he always like because I had a majority of
(23:32):
my scenes were with him, he just always seems so
like effortless in doing it. And he had a lot
of a lot of dialogue, a lot of you know,
he was always rambling, is what we always said Dan
was doing, and he always just had a lot to
say and he would just say it. Sometimes I'd be
done with the scene and I'm like, I don't know
how you just did that because it was just a
lot of words, and you made it so easy and
(23:54):
so nice and just so natural. He's like a great again,
everyone really is. Just they all brought such a cool
vibe to their characters. Oh absolutely. And it's funny because
I think when he auditioned, he had if we're talking
about hair again, let's go back to it, he had
the hair that he has now on you, which is
kind of like like bigger and fuller. And when I
(24:16):
saw the pilot because I wasn't on set when they
shot it, and I'm like, oh my god, what they
do to his hair because it was really really short,
he looked amazing, but it looks so different. So it's
funny to kind of see, um, you know again with
the hair changed that for the pilot as well, So
it's not all casting decisions are about hair, but it
just happened to be here. But also too, he's like
such a good looking guy like he pulled off both
(24:38):
very well. Like when I watch you, I'm like, wow, okay,
you look great and that buzz cut like sweet, yeah,
super hot? Sup. Why do you think and not just
(25:00):
because you cast everyone, because that's a part of it,
but why do you think the cast had such good chemistry?
Because you cast a bunch of young adults that do
a pilot in New York City, don't know each other
at all, and a lot of people's first big job
is that just they were just that good of actors
that they're like, we'll just going to bring our a
(25:20):
game and kill it or and by the way, I
know all of you know, I worked with all them.
Everyone is super nice and have great personalities. Offset Um,
but what do you think was the key to that?
I think, Um, you know, look, I not the patsils
in the back, but I think we did do a
good job of kind of matching the essence of the
character to the person in some ways. And they were
not not to say that these people were their characters.
(25:42):
They're obviously all playing roles and what have you, but
the essence of them was there and I think they
you know, it's it's one of those things that you
hope for in every show that you cast. I'll be
honest with you. You You know, you when you make a pilot,
you usually audition actors with maybe two or three scenes.
At most two or three scenes from the pilot. You
don't necessarily know what they're going to do in series
(26:02):
or what's expected of them, and so you really kind
of hope for the best. And I you know, we
got lucky. We got very lucky. Right. That was a
question I wanted to ask you. When you are reading
a pilot or a movie, what do you look for
in the scenes that you're going to audition the actors,
Because here's a big thing. You're getting ready to sign
on some actors to play these roles that potentially at
(26:24):
the time you don't know, but could go on for
four or five, six years. So these are going to
be characters that are going to live in people's living rooms,
beyond people's computer screens. And you you narrow it down
to three scenes of like a hundred scenes, these people
thousands of scenes they could be doing, you know what
I mean, So what do you pick for these actors
to come in an audition? Because you're picking three scenes,
(26:44):
Like I said to deliver years of entertainment to people exactly. Well,
you're really looking for the range of an actor. You're
looking for different colors throughout the pilot to show as
much as you can from that character. And it really
the casting process is a process like we're bringing people
up to five, six, seven, eight times um over the
period of ten weeks, audition them on their own, audition
(27:05):
with other actors to kind of test chemistry. So you're
really trying to gauge as best you can if they
are going to if they are it, if they're the
right thing, if they're going to last the five six years.
It's it's kind of like getting married, I say sometimes,
like there's no way to know when you first meet
someone if you are going to have a lifelong commitment
with that person. That's the intention, I guess, as is
the intention to cast a patent that you'll have these
(27:26):
people on for six years. But there's really no way
to know, and sometimes you get lucky and sometimes it
doesn't work right. And then so for um, for the pilot,
did you guys have any chemistry? Reads Like at that point,
you guys weren't aware that Chuck and Blair we're going
to be this major arc throughout the show. Serena and
Dan also are, but they also there was the chemistry
(27:49):
and the vibe in the pilot, So did they have
a chemistry read? As far as I remember, and I
could be wrong, but as far as I remember, nobody
had a chemistry read. I want to say, maybe Blake
and Layton did one scene together, um, but none of
the guys and the girls had chemistry reaes together. I
think we got really lucky with those. That also might
be because they knew that everyone was going to be
all over on the show, so they're like, everyone just
(28:10):
asked that chemistry period. Basically, yeah, exactly. Let me ask
you this, when did you know that show was going
to be a hit or what happened that you're like, oh,
this is this is it? That's a good question. So
when I got offered Gossip Girl, I was also offered
a show on another major network. It was a much
bigger network at the time, and they told me I
(28:31):
had to choose between the show they offered me and
Gossip Girl, and I just thought the Gossip Girl script
was incredible. I just thought it was so zeitgeist and poppy,
and it was something I would want to watch. And
so essentially for my first big job, I was passing
on a huge studio to do what at the time
was a very small network and a smaller show. And
see a lot of people would be like, oh my god,
(28:52):
that's such a risk, such a risk. But everyone that's listening, guys,
sometimes taking those risks are all what it's about. It
made my whole career. Were you scared? I was terrified,
And that studio told me that would never worked with
me again, and they and they haven't worked with me again.
Well I think I think you're just continued to work,
you know, And I made a home at CW and
(29:14):
so many other places since then. But um, well you have.
But with c W then you did Arrow the New
nine O two one. No, I mean the list goes
on and on Riverdale. I mean, you just but here's
the thing. Everyone there's like, listen, he he took what
we gave him, he put it on his own. Little
twist was great with the actors. Helped in the room.
You just did a lot to help them make a
(29:34):
bunch of shows that were hits for them. That's got
to feel pretty damn good. Yeah, it feels great. It
feels great. I mean, my favorite part of of casting
I really missed now because of self tapes. It's working
in the room with the actor and directing them and
helping them kind of build a performance and giving them
confidence and then going for director and producers and so
that part I missed. But yeah, I love working on
(29:56):
shows that are part of pop culture. I love reading
about them in magazines. And the way that Gossip Girls
specifically exploded was that was overwhelming. I had no concept
that I was going to be as big as it was,
and I don't think I really had a hit like
that again, probably until Riverdale, you know, which was greg
brilliante show. And Greg has given me so many incredible
opportunities on c W and outside of c w M
(30:18):
with all the superhero shows like Arrow and Flash and
Supergirl and Legs of Tomorrow and You, which is on
Netflix with Pem Badgley, which I think was the next show.
Yeah he did after Um, after Gossip Girl, so it's
you know, keeping it all in the family is really exciting. Totally.
So you decided not to take the other job with
a big studio that was bigger than c W at
the time because you just felt you just the words
(30:41):
on the page made you have a certain vibe and
feel and you're like, I'm gonna just go for this. Correct.
I had a feeling it would be something special. I
didn't know that it would be big, but I knew
that it would be special, right, And then it was both.
I also find it there's some things when I watched
this show that there was just some really good performances.
I told some of my producers like, I'm a little
(31:03):
like shock that no one got nominated for. Like, I
know we got a lot of teen Choice things and
stuff like that, but a Golden Glober and Emmy like.
There were some performances some of the seasons that I
truly think deserved a little more light on it. But
at that time, c W, even though they had hit
shows and people so many millions of viewers were tuning in,
(31:24):
c W, wasn't getting nominated. No, And then there's still
not In some ways, I feel like on some shows
they are, but I feel like, um, you know, it's
looked at it sort of like a youth network. But
I really am so impressed with so many of the
performances on that show specifically, and so many the ones
in their shows that I'm working on now, and it's
it seems unfortunate, unfair that they get looked over because
the material is pretty pretty heavy. It's pretty deep. Yeah,
(31:46):
I mean some of the things that we touch on
and Gossip Girl, like addiction and you know, suicide and
you know, divorces with family, a lot of deep stuff,
which I think maybe you don't yeah maybe then you
know on the c W it's teenagers, you know, you
just it was overlooked, but I did. I watched a
couple episodes and I'm like, wow, that's like a scene
that's definitely I could see watching the Golden Globes and
(32:08):
that be one of the scenes that that person is
nominated for. Um, was it Jane Jane the Virgin was
was that? I feel like that was that was their
first one? Yeah, and that was phenomenal too, and I
was pumped for her, like you go, oh, absolutely, absolutely, yeah,
it's um. We were nominated for a Radios Award, which
(32:29):
is like the biggest casting award that year for Gossip Girl,
and that was the first time I was nominated for
an Audios and enomenal mad Men and Damages and a
couple other shows and we didn't win, but I felt
so proud to be amongst that group of people and
to be recognized for the work that we did, because again,
a lot of c W shows were not getting recognized
(32:51):
like that, and this was a really you know, for
that time, it was a very special, specific kind of cast,
and it was it was really nice to be included. Well,
I guess we know that. I clearly loved everyone that
you picked for the show, and I think everyone across
the world who watched the show would agree. Um, I'm
gonna play one game with you. I love games, and
it's it's a quote game, so I'm going to do
(33:12):
some quotes. There was some for some of the guests
that are coming on in the next couple of weeks
that I read that Vanessa said, and I didn't know.
So you're okay, okay, alright, alright, okay. Has our bad
Girl really gone good? Oh? I mean that's Gossip Girl.
(33:35):
Has not Bad Girl really gone good? Yes? Good? That one?
Can we end it now because there's not many parts? Okay,
quote too, I think even your underdoing it would be
overdoing it, Blair, I thought that too. Quote to please.
(33:56):
I think even your underdoing it would be overdoing it.
Ye oh wow, Dan okay, Serena was about their Christmas gifts. Oh, okay, okay.
Quote three, if you're going to be in this world,
be yourself in this world? Mm hmm. Who would have
(34:16):
said that? Can you give me a hint? Oh? You said,
if you're going to be in this world, be yourself
in this world. And that's a really good quote. It is.
It's good. Vanessa was very relatable. I mean, for that
the little small percentage of people that one live on
the Upper East Side and two are in this world
(34:38):
that gossip girl, you know, the glitz and the glam
and the money. I mean, Vanessa worked at a coffee shop.
Most kids aren't using a handbag to go to school
or driving a limo or that. Not a lot of
kids are experiencing that. So I do feel like Vanessa
kind of kept she grounded a little bit of that age.
I think, yeah, I for sure related to her character
(35:00):
lot because I didn't have all those things in high
school and still don't. And there's something beautiful and fun
about watching the fantasy of this this world full of money.
But to be able to kind of see yourself in
that world is super important. I'm so glad that she
was there. Yeah, Vanessa, she's she's such a little cutie.
There's definitely things that got on my nerves. But yeah,
(35:20):
that's okay. Okay, let's do the next quote. Okay, have
a little faith and if that doesn't work, have a
lot of mimosas. Oh um, oh god, this is so
I want to say, I'll go to Blair again. Okay,
let's play. I'm probably raw, have a little faith and
if that doesn't work, a lot of mimosas. Well. Done,
(35:44):
it was Blair? Who is that? Okay, good job? All right?
Last one? Oh few? Okay, people like me don't write
books they're written about. Oh, chuck, people like me don't
write books written about That was Chuck. You definitely heard
that one. Yeah, well you did really great. I was
(36:05):
really nervous. Yeah you did well. Um, well, it was
really great to have you on. I'm a huge fan
back at you, and I'm really excited for everyone who
will be listening to really know like all the hard
work and how much you had to do with putting
this together and what all goes into it, because this
is all a lot of stuff people don't know. Absolutely,
(36:27):
thank you for bringing me back to Gossip Girl. It's
been you know, a while, and it's it was a
really really special time and it's obviously such an incredible project.
You're awesome. This was like so wonderful. Uh well, I'm
sending you there. Thank you for having me. Thanks you
Can you imagine if Ed's visa didn't come through or
(36:51):
or Ted backed out, or if I moved back to
Wisconsin when I said I was going to. I mean,
I can't. I can't even think about it. You guys
so nuts. Casting is a lot of hard work that
a lot of people put in, but it's also just
a little bit of magic and luck that makes everything
come together so perfectly. And David, you really made that
magic happen on Gossip Girl. You really have a way
(37:13):
of putting people at ease and being so great to
talk to. So thank you for today. All right, guys,
until next time. X O x O x O x
O is produced by Propagate Content and Met Jessica's Or.
Our show is executive produced by Langley. Our producers are
(37:35):
Diego Tapia, Emily Carr, and Hannah Harris. Original music by
Moxie and Lune, and the episode was mixed by seth
ol Lansky,
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