S2E8 Pret-A-Poor-J with Amanda Lasher

This week, Jessica brings on Gossip Girl co-Executive Producer and writer Amanda Lasher to break down a big episode - and one Amanda wrote! They dive into shirtless Nate, Jenny quitting Eleanor’s, and the end (or is it?) of Chuck and Blair. 

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, my name is Amanda Lasher and I was a
coep on Gossip Growl. Welcome back, listeners to your one
and only source into all things Gossip grow You know

(00:23):
you love it. XO x O. Hello, Hello, I'm Jessica's
Or and this is XO XO. Today's rewatch is season two,
episode eight, preapoor j. This episode is all about the
monologue from Jenny quitting Eleanor's to Chuck calling things off
with Blair. And nobody does a breakup speech better than

(00:45):
Gossip Girl. So to help me dive into all of this,
we've got the writer herself, Amanda Lasher. Amanda not only
wrote today's episode, she was a writer and executive producer
on Gossip Girl for pretty much the entire show. And
she's produced shows like Sweet Fishes, The Bold Type, and Riverdale,
so she's definitely an expert on drama. Oh and for

(01:06):
all unate fans, she wrote the scene with him shirtless
on purpose, and she says, you're welcome. Okay, now let's
get started. Hi, how are you? I'm good? How are

(01:35):
you I'm good? Do you know what I find really
kind of funny? Are ironic about this? Well? First off,
We're so excited to have you. We've been talking about
you for so long while doing this podcast. The writer's
room was always in l A. And we were filming
in New York, so it's kind of weird. I'm not
sure if you're in l A right now. I'm in Arizona,
but we're still like working, you know, with technology about

(01:58):
Gossip Girl, so I kind of feel like it's the
same but different. It's all on it's all on brand. Um. Yeah, No,
I am in l A. And that's where I was
for the writing of the show. Yeah, okay, Well, let's
just do an introduction to you, because obviously you deserve
that and we respect your work you as a person,

(02:19):
as a writer, as a producer of this show. I'm
so honored that you're here. This is Amanda Lasher, who
was a writer for almost all of the show to
two thousand eight to two thou twelve. That sounds right.
It's been so long, but I got the majority of
the show and also produced the show, and now we
have her to you know, do a rewatch with us

(02:40):
for season two, episode eight to Port Jay. What a
great episode. Thank you. I was really excited when I
saw that that's what you guys wanted to talk about.
Because I had this moment where I got the email
and I was like, yeah, that'd be fun. And I
was like, but what is the what? You know, what
the topic? And then when I saw that it was

(03:00):
about pedopor j I was like, oh, no, I actually
have things to say. Yeah, I can't wait. And so
this the title refers to pret to porte Yes, the
satire about fashion Week with Julia Roberts and Cephila Wren
and Kimbationer like amazing and a quick question on that. Yeah,

(03:20):
Norman Buckley and we were just talking about this how
it's a play on words. But a lot of the
titles don't have anything to do really with the episode.
So do you did you like write the episode and
then put the title to it after or it comes
up when it comes up and feels organic, like oh
that's there's a movie and we can use this. Like
was it different every time? That's a great question. I

(03:42):
think it was different every time. It would be like
we would like kind of kick around titles in the
room and stuff like that and sort of try and
find something that felt right. But then sometimes it was
just like getting something that was a good pun or
a good play, because there's great ones. This is one
of my everyones. How about the next episode there might

(04:02):
be blood that I was like, I think we've crossed
the line here, we're going in here. It's so yeah,
so good. Okay, So do you want to give us
a little backstory of kind of where you're from and
how you knew you wanted to be a writer, and
how it came about to be a writer with Josh

(04:23):
and Stephanie and with the amazing writing team that we had,
and also just how it was to write in on
the other side of the country, because a lot of
times when you're on a show, and I know, everything
changes as years go on, like but at that time,
a lot of times you were in the same city
as your writers at least or even on the same lot,

(04:43):
you know what I mean, in studio, so you know,
and then it's a different time zone. Yeah, I know.
It was the first time that I had ever had
that experience because so I, um, just backstory of me.
I'm from Los Angeles and um, my parents actually are
literary agents and when I said that I wanted to

(05:04):
be a writer, they were like, over my dead body yes,
not happening. Not happening, like like that's not the life
for you. And so I tried to be uh an executive,
Like I worked and I worked in a Mirrormax, and
I worked in like film and all that stuff, and
then I tried all these different jobs and then ultimately
I was just like, this is what I want to do.

(05:24):
And I managed to get a job as a writer's
assistant on a comedy called The Oblongs, and it was
just an amazing experience and sort of like confirmed everything
that I sort of thought about what I wanted to
do with my career. And once I kind of got
that job, I realized that the only way to actually

(05:46):
get into a writer's room is to just keep writing.
And so I spent like weekends going to the Beverly
Hills Library and you know, writing spec scripts and writing writing, writing,
and eventually I got on a show where they offered
me the opportunity to write an episode and they read
my samples and they promoted me to being a writer.

(06:07):
And now my parents are like, it's amazing that you're
a writer. Were sad, so great, Well, you know, on
the on the on the flip side of that, like
when you're in something and know how difficult it can be,
or the grind. Sometimes as a new mom, you're kind
of like, you know, you want to protect your kids,
but at the same time them telling you not to

(06:28):
might have also lit a little bit of a fire.
But obviously you're so talented and had that in you,
so maybe then it's just a part of your family,
a part of your blood. Yeah, no, it's I mean
I was not the best rebel, so it was like
scary for me to do something they told me not
to do. I was like, even in my twenties, I
was like, I don't think I should go against what
my parents want, but it just was sort of like

(06:51):
nothing else felt right. But no, they Yeah, I think
they came from a place of love. I'm an only child,
and they I think they wanted me to have a
job that had a lot of security, and but the
reality is that like no jobs do anymore. Do you
know we learned that recently, didn't we all? Um? And

(07:13):
so ultimately, you know, they saw that I was able
to sort of like living in also just that like
I genuinely like it's what I really genuinely wanted to do,
and they were very, very yeah, I love to do
and they were super supportive and it was great even
when I was, you know, spending every weekend at the
Beverly Hills Library and like I homeless guy asked me

(07:35):
if I wanted to be as assistant. I was like, wait,
I'm sorry, let me write that down. Actually I'm gonna
use that one day. So how did Gossip Girl come about? Then?
I had been working in comedies and sitcoms and I
was sort of becoming disenchanted with it. It just sort
of felt like the writing was I feel very constrained
by it. It was all about sort of like the

(07:57):
setup and the joke, and when I was off writing scripts,
I just I don't know, I just felt like I
wasn't having fun in that medium and so and I
was realizing that the shows that I was watching were
more hour long. So I made a decision to sort of, Um,
I wrote a spec Gray's Anatomy, which at the time

(08:17):
you could write a sample script of a show that
was on the air and that's how you would get work.
And now it's changed and writers coming up tend to
have to write pilots and original pieces, which is really hard.
Like I'm so grateful that I came up at a
time where you could write samples of other shows, because
when you're learning, like when you're finding your footing as
a writer, it's hard. It's really hard. Like I've been

(08:40):
doing it for a long time now, and pilots and
original pieces are still like their challenging. And so I
wrote A Gray's Anatomy and um sent it around and
trying to remember. But basically I made a concerted effort
to switch over from comedy to drama, which was sort
of like a tricky thing at that time. And I
did a season on a show called Lipstick Jungle and

(09:04):
do you remember that show? Yes, Yes, that's right, she was.
And then I got then I got hired on a
Gossip Girl, and I was so excited because the first
season had already come out and I had seen it
and I was like just a huge fan of the show,
and so getting that GID was like very exciting and

(09:27):
a really happy time in my life because I had
had just had my daughter, and so she was like
eight or nine months old, and the writer strike had happened,
and so because of the writer strike, I had sort
of like forced maternity leave, like I couldn't work even
if I wanted to, And it was just this sort
of like I took that as the gift that it was.

(09:49):
And really, even though it's not like the strike was
brutal and not fun for anybody, it was nice to
have that time with my daughter. And then by the
time Gossip Girl around, I was ready to get back
to work. And wow, that's such a lovely story though,
Like and then also because getting to be home with
your daughter at that time and it kept going longer

(10:11):
than anyone thought, your brain was probably still like in
mom mode, but still excited to get back to the
show that we were hoping we were going to come
back to. Because that was a weird time. We keep
talking about that writer or strike situation, and yeah, well
but I think it like ultimately kind of served helped
us because it's like that first season, like word of
mouth really spread and also like there wasn't content coming

(10:33):
out and so people were watching and finding in stuff. Yeah,
Josh and Stephanie talked about it. Norman touched on it. Michelle,
So when we were going back, were you finding it
challenging because the show was season one hit in a
way and people were so excited for season two. Did
you feel like the expectations to like bring heat and
bring a vibe was like through the roof or where

(10:55):
you like, I'm here, I'm game, and I'm gonna just
do my thing. I well, because I wasn't on first
season and I was just a fan. I just literally
came into that room as a fan girl. Like I
was super excited. I was like, what was happening with
like Juck and Blair, Like I was very very excited.
And yeah, I just remember being very happy to be

(11:17):
there and excited to like dive into those stories. And
also I remember I was the only person I think
on staff who had a kid at that point, and
I was like very nervous about revealing it was like
my deep dark secret, like because the girls gonna be
like spotted breastfeeding after hours, pumping in the corner. Yeah,

(11:41):
because just at that time, like I just didn't have
as many friends who were in rooms who had maybe
you know, things have changed a lot um, So I
was a little nervous about that, Like there was that
piece of it, but I was just mostly excited to
dive in. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so let's get into
this But here's there's a fan question that I want
to ask, which is a great question. Who writes the

(12:03):
Gossip Girl quotes? Is it the same writer every time?
I'm obviously I'm sure it's not. But just the like
the tone of it, and the wittiness and the snarkiness
and the cleverness and all the things that Kristen brings
to the writing that you all did for her for
Gossip Girl is just brilliant. But is that is that

(12:24):
an effort with everyone in the room or because it
was your episode, you're gonna do the Gossip Girl quotes. Yeah,
everybody did their own Gossip Girl quotes for their episode,
and they were hard, Like they were really really hard
to do, and so yeah, they were always very challenging.
In fact, I would be like pacing the house, like

(12:47):
being like so like every like narrating everything. You know,
they were really hard. I can only imagine because listening
back and watching and when I am reading them after
the fact, it's there's show clever and cuts to each
storyline and the music with it. It's so amazing. But
I just didn't know if that was like everyone sat

(13:09):
at the table in the writer's room and it was
like let's all put our heads together, or everyone just
was left you there left round devices. But that said,
I mean, there would certainly be moments where like I
remember being like going into Josh's room and being like, okay,
like I have the first part of this and like,
you know, like trying to like and he'd be like,
I'm trying to write my old Gossip Girls get out
and so figure out those But I mean, part of

(13:32):
the fun and the challenge of the show is that
it did the voices were so specific and so crisp,
and like, it was such a fun show to write,
like always and so and I remember when I started,
like Stephanie sort of well because there were a couple
of new writers being like and this character speaks a
little more slowly, and this person, you know, like she
sort of talked to us a little bit about the rhythms.

(13:53):
But I also what I did was I listened to
the show in my car as I would drive to work,
because I wanted to get the like rhythms of all
of your voices in my head and so that I
could kind of drop into it faster when I was
writing the show, which helped me a lot. You know, Yeah,

(14:13):
that's awesome there. Okay, so we're going to get into
where we left off, but real quick. Before Amanda Lasher,
we had a character that came in and had like
a flirtation with Dan was like doing like a secret
side job with Chuck. And her name was Amanda Lasher.

(14:34):
And I had a question for you when when you're
casting someone that's named after you, like if I was
casting someone named Jessica's or when they walk in, I
feel like I'm already gonna be like, oh, I don't know,
like look wise or this, Like I have so much
in my head already. How was that casting her? And
she did a great job playing Amanda, and that storyline
was wonderful, like the Nair Martini all of that was nuts.

(14:56):
Oh yeah, it was great. I mean that was I
mean to be told. That was the first week I
was there and they were like, I know, we're going
to name this character Amanda Lasher. It was like WHOA
welcoming me. But I would never again, I would not
recommend having a character with your first and last name
because it has led to like total confusion sometimes where

(15:20):
like it's like I think there was something where like
like I've been like quoted in interviews, but they it's
actually the actor who played me. Like it's led to
a lot of confusion, Yeah, character in the show, which
would be a little bit scary from Gossip Girl. You
never know who's saying what. Yeah, I'm coming to someone's
coming to near my hair. Um. But I had just

(15:43):
started at that point and I was not involved in
the casting and the producing as much, and so that
sort of built up as I was there over time,
so she was I had nothing to do with the casting.
But I'm just trying to remember if I even saw
an advancing of it. No, I just was like flatter,
here's I thought it was funny, and I was flattered that.

(16:05):
I was kind of surprised my name got all the
way through. I think that's a and Lasher is kind
of a fun last name. So it's been like it's
an Anne Rice character's name Lasher, And I think there's
actually a series coming out like called Lasher. But it's
been used in other things like people like the name
and so, but it's the first time it was a
Mande Lasher. But throughout this series, like when I always
put my friends names in the show, like who were

(16:27):
some of your friends names characterized well. Jonathan Um Eric's boyfriend,
Jonathan is named after one of my best friends, and
he had the experience which I think you talked about
it because I listened to the episode where people like
came up to him he said his daughter a club once. Yeah.
I was like no. It was like, oh, yeah, that
character John is named after me, and John would be

(16:48):
like no, which is so random that people would even
like say that, But it happened like two times. And
then in predibor J they were like, I put like
little East dregs, like when they're like, oh those two
stylist Sasky and Trish, those are like two of my
close friends from New York. So I would just like
put in little winks like I will see. So it

(17:08):
happens a lot more than people are aware of. Like
I know, in the in the pilot or very beginning
of season one where Eric goes to rehab was named
after one of the writers, or maybe it was even Cicily,
the creator. I'd have to go back and look. But
there's a lot more that pop up that are like
personal to people attached to the show than than I think,
you know, the fans or viewers realized you know what

(17:31):
I mean, But I think that's really cool and fun.
I like that little that little fun fact. Okay, so
let's get into pret to Port Jay. Where we left
off is Chuck told Blair that it's her turn to
chase him. Nate is staying with the Humphries, and Jenny
has left Constants with Rufus's blessing to work full time
for Eleanor. And here's the log line for this episode.

(17:53):
Season two, episode eight, Jenny be friends a young model
who encourages Jenny not to only explore her why outside,
but also confront her boss, Eleanor Waldorf, who is attempting
to borrow Jenny's designs. Serena meets an artist Aaron Rose
and realizes they have an instant chemistry. Lara attempts to
seduce Chuck, but it proves tougher than she imagined. Okay, So,

(18:17):
speaking of Chuck and Blair in this episode, right off
the bat, they're getting hot and heavy. It looks to
be in the back of the limo and we're in
Blair's head. Well, Jessica, you'd be referring to my proudest
moment as a writer, would be my female masturbation scene
that I put in my first episode of Gossip Girl,

(18:37):
which is still one of my proudest moments as a writer.
My goods. No, I was like, no, Blair is going
to masturbate. I was like, that's what's going to happen
because she is thinking about him and that's what she
would be doing. And I remember when I put it in,
like you know, I mean, I pitched it in the

(18:59):
room in people signed off on it. That's why it
went in. Like Stephanie was on board, everyone's on board.
But I remember being really really nervous when we got
notes from the studio, both on the aline and on
the script, and I remember sitting because what would happen is,
you know, I would write the outline. I would give
it to Josh Saffron and um John Stevens. It was

(19:21):
running room and so they would like look at it
and read it and give notes, and Stephanie would look
at it and give notes, and then you would make
those revisions and then it would go to the studio
and the network and we would get their notes and right,
but I remember sitting in Stephanie's office and waiting for
the first pay. They'd say Okay, we're gonna start start

(19:42):
the note, you know, a couple overall thoughts. We feel
like you can pick up the pace here, what are this?
You know? They give sort of like general overall thoughts
and then they'd start on page notes and they'd be like, okay,
so page starting on page whatever. And I remember as
a studio executive. I forget who it was at the time,
but like hunching into the page notes, they were like
starting on page eight and test Stephanie. Yes. So they

(20:06):
just skipped right past it. They just give right past it.
Oh my god. And I just kept waiting for them
to give me pushback on it, and they didn't, and
I was very happy. So this is in Blair's dream
where they're in the back of the limount and then
Deroda comes in and it's like, you know, God's always
watching you, like all of the I wish that Derode

(20:27):
had been work accepting. I wish the Derode had been
liked this a beautiful way to start your day. Yeah,
go ahead, do your thing. I see you. Gosh, I
love it. How do you write a sex scene like that?

(20:50):
I know it's not just the physical thing of like, Okay,
he's going to go, you know, lick her arm and
go down, and you know, because something even just saying
that right now, it doesn't sound or feel as sex
as when you watch something, or sometimes it doesn't feel
as sexy when doing it because it's so you know, technical.
But how is writing a sex scene and is it
more fun writing a sex scene for characters like that

(21:11):
just because like they just give so much and people
love it. I mean writing again, like not to be
boring about, but just writing for the characters was always
just super fun and obviously with them because there was
such like playfulness in it and also just like wickedness
like that you could kind of you cross lines and

(21:31):
you could go places that were just really fun because
it was true to their characters. In terms of writing
a sex scene, sometimes it's like super fun and you
know you can kind of like really get into what
you wanted to be, and then other times it does
become kind of technical depending on how you shoot it.

(21:52):
And what's interesting is it's really changed now because I
actually just had to write one first show that I
was on and before like when I wrote that one,
like I'm trying to remember, but there would be like
playfulness in the writing, and there would be sort of
like a little bit of um freedom with for the

(22:12):
director in terms of how far we wanted to take it,
But it would depend on what the sex scene is,
because sometimes like the sex scene is just about like
they're off kissing and you know, they fall to the
bed and we know what's going to happen. But other times,
like you are telling a story that where the sex
goes to or the tenor of it is obviously very important,
and so then you need to you need to make

(22:34):
sure that that's in the writing and then that's really clear.
But now to make actors feel more comfortable and to
like make the lines very clear for you guys when
you're on set. The sex scene that I wrote most recently,
like we literally wrote like he puts his hand on
her thigh, Like we literally like choreographic so that when

(22:57):
the actors reading it, like you guys know actually what
to expect and you're not walking into a situation that's
a gray area. And writing that was definitely more awkward
and also like just kind of mortifying, right, it's interesting
to sort of unpack that and how we get to
that decision. You know, it's almost like doing a whole

(23:18):
another adding a whole another piece to it because it
just wasn't done like that before. However, it was written
in this opening scene in the back of the car
and Blair's head, which we don't know at first. Yeah,
also too right away, I was like, wait, now that
did they just let everything go and they're just gonna
get back and like get to it like perfect, because
that's what we're all waiting for anyway, right. Yeah, So

(23:40):
that's going on, and then we have Nate living with
the Humphries the best, which I love. Who doesn't want
Nate like, you know, writing in your bathroom? Yeah? Okay,
so going into that where he's like living with the Humphries.
Did you know going into this episode, was it on
like a storyboard somewhere that there may be a flirtation

(24:01):
with Nate and Jenny or did that come up when
you're like, we have to do something because it's Gossip
Girl and there's two hot people on a roof and yeah,
let's do this. Yeah. I'm trying to remember sure of exactly,
but we would at the beginning of the season, like
one of the most fun things is we would talk about,
you know, with Gossip Wil there were so many episodes,

(24:22):
so we would break it up, you know, in talking
about it, but we would talk about like maybe the
first twelve episodes and like how we wanted to ark
that and where we wanted to build two at the
end of the season, and so we would have like
a rough sense of Okay, we want to put these
characters together and we want to try this, and yeah,
because I don't I don't feel like there was any

(24:43):
kind of like little treats or easter eggs telling that
like when that happened when he came out of the
bathroom with no shirt, which, by the way, didn't did
you choose to have Chase with no shirt Nate with
no shirt on? Because most girls at home are like,
we'd like to see Nate with no shirt? Um, what's
I think? I was there that day and I don't remember,

(25:04):
but obviously we would want to give the audience the
best experience possible. Open Jenny opens the door and you're
like hello, I mean yeah, And that's what we wanted.
That moment, like that visceral moment of like what do
you do when you are a fifteen year old girl
and you open up your bathroom door and Nate Archibald

(25:25):
right there, like holy shit, and he's like your hair
did you change something? It's like, oh, you know this
that's completely different hair style. It's totally new character that
I am. Oh my god, I love it. Okay, So
he's living there and I too. For a moment when
like Jenny and Nate like they have this thing, I'm like, wait,
is he going to go there? Because I I'm the

(25:47):
oldest of five kids, and a lot of my friends
had thought my brother, who was four years younger than us,
was like the cutest, hottest thing. And then when we
got into high school and he was a freshman and he,
you know, we were seniors. One of my friends was like,
I kind of like want to make up with your brother,
and like, first of all, don't be weird, but like
I'm also not going to be like, you know, cock
blocking my brother here. I just always know. And then

(26:09):
I had friends that had older brothers in high school
and it was an absolute no no, like nope, there's
no flirtation, there's no you guys can't even sit in
the back, you know, in the back seat together on
the way to the football game. Like but you're just
making it more forbidden and there for more exciting, right right,
So here's this moment where it kind of like clicked
in my like it took me back to high school
with my friends, with my brother, and I'm like, wait,

(26:31):
is Nate going to like go there because anything can
happen in gospel or is this just gonna be one
like moment where he's living there? You know? So did
you know from jump that you guys were going to
explore that? Yeah? Yeah, no, we definitely were like, let's
play with this because it is first of all, it
was fun to think about like how each characters would

(26:53):
like play off of each other, and like the kinds
of things that Jenny wanted and the kinds of things
that Nate wanted, and like, it was just always fun
to sort of think about the different combinations and then
also just playing into that fun fantasy of like being
a teenage girl and Nate Archibald likes you, and like
who doesn't like? For sure, I think people can get

(27:15):
behind that. Yes, I don't know if Dan would so much.
But and then we have Dan, who was you know,
at school with Serena and Blair is like going through
this whole kind of devastating moment because she just wants
to be with Chuck, but like it's so stubborn both
gets in her own way. So this moment where Dan

(27:37):
is kind of advising Blair was like so wild to
me because I'm like she is like so bothered by
him or like just doesn't even It's like Dan hump
from gross and now she's making trips to like Brooklyn
to like get advice from him. I was writing with
with for Dan and Blair because of just their characters
dynamic of of Blair she doesn't care get up in

(28:00):
the dictionary, Like you'll see her face and you know, like, yeah,
he thought she was full on garbage. Yeah, and she
thought he was garbage. Well again, Like it was really
fun because they did loathe each other so much, you know,
when we decided to get them together in later seasons,
it came from this place of like, well, they loathe

(28:20):
each other so much, but they're both like intellectual matches
for each other. And that was the thing that we
were always very aware of is that like Dan and
Blair actually had a lot in common in that sense
that they were both like super super smart and knew
how to funk with each other. Even though Dan was
like pure of heart allegedly. Um. But but those those

(28:43):
scenes were fun to write because they did hate each
other and they could just like openly insult each other
and they did. They did. Yeah, and it had its
own spark, you know, it has its own spark. It
has its own And it was also just fun to
see her just like reluctantly having to take dance advice.
And yeah, and also any you know, I mean, Layton

(29:07):
was so good at just playing vulnerability where she even
in those moments where she was a monster, like that
vulnerability always peeked through and you'd forgive or anything for it,
you know. Yeah. It was a really I like their
dynamic in this and and there was a moment where
I'm like, no, there's they're not going to hook up.

(29:27):
They can't. That's so funny they can't. Yeah, I mean
we we really did like dance around I remember like
we danced around it for a long time because we
were like, oh, like, do can we believe that they
would hook up? Can we believe that they would hook up?
And in the beginning we were just like no. But
then like the more we wrote them and the more
that they sort of like their characters evolved and humanize.

(29:51):
You know, we did start to feel like, no, this
actually could happen and it was interesting. Well, you guys
did such a good job because it has everyone's heads
like spinning like wait what yeh. And then this whole
thing with Jenny, Like I like this layer with Nate
in this episode where this opens that door on top
of like the whole situation at work with Eleanor, like

(30:13):
she really is so talented, but she is young, And
there's like a part of me that feels like there
was something in this storyline where it's like, just because
you're young and you can be talented and have so
much to offer, doesn't mean because someone else is older
or more has more on their plate or more to offer,
more successful, that they should be able to like kind

(30:33):
of take advantage of you. I keep getting that from
these last couple of episodes, and really heavily in this one.
And I kind of like that Jenny had like this backbone,
and I love Eleanor Waldorf. I don't think it's like intentional,
I just don't. I think this kind of came out
of like I didn't expect this young Jenny Humphrey, whose
family I've known throughout the years to come in and

(30:54):
bring all these you know, wonderful designs and open my
eyes to certain things. So I think there's definitely like
a lot for Eleanor to learn in that. I think
what's really interesting about the Jenny Eleanor thing is like,
first of all, you're seeing both the best and worst
of that generation's strengths and weaknesses, do you know what
I mean? Like, and I feel like Jenny standing up

(31:17):
for herself is very gratifying. But then of course with Jenny,
like she tips it over into like being like taking
it too far and being like too entitled in a way,
and then at the same time, like Eleanor takes advantage
of her too much. And with Eleanor, it's like you
could always buy that, you know, we were always able
to buy that callousness, and you believe that she would

(31:41):
do something shitty like that, and then there was always
those moments where she would kind of like walk it
back a little bit also, and after who was like
really good at like walking that line of just being
just so super shitty but then realizing maybe that they
were being shitty, but then also of stay doubling down
on it. Yeah, but they were both right in those moments.

(32:04):
You know, like Jenny is absolutely right that she was
taking advantage and Eleanor was absolutely right and that Jenny
was acting so crazy and titled in certain moments, but
she was Margaret taking advantage of her. And that moment
when Nate walks in the office, I'm like, here we go.
They have opened that door. He's bringing her her like binder,

(32:26):
like her works works out. It was so cute. Yeah,
I mean the idea of like being at work and
Nate Archibald showing up with your square. It's again, it's
like you're welcome. Yes, Oh my goodness. So when Blair
ends up then taking the advice from Dan and chucking

(32:47):
her together, and he's just like you smell of desperation
and wants to leave because she's trying all these things
when that room was lit and he walks in when
she's at Serena's house for the sleepover. But I'm like
Blair's and Flair's genius, like yeah, I'll get them. And
then once that when that buzz and it's Serena and
he finds out and she's got to leave, I honestly thought,

(33:09):
which is probably what your intention was is that they
were gonna was gonna happen. Yeah, she had him Rember
what she wanted she had, And the fact that he
stopped because he realized he was being played and that
he knew when he was like when the phone's buzzing
and they're both looking at it and they like know
each other so well. Although like I remember when they
were in the bar and there's the thing where she

(33:30):
spills vodka on him and he's like, this isn't going anywhere,
and like and you ruin my pants, Like he delivered
that line and you ruined my pants. Like the actual
that he like stuck the landing with that line was
so that. Yeah, Like that was another thing that was
like super fun about being on the show is that,
you know, seeing what you guys would do with the writing,

(33:51):
Like you just always you guys made things come alive
and it was always really really fun to see that happen. Yeah,
and and also probably different surprises when you would watch them.
So if you weren't on set in New York while writing,
you would just get the dailies every day to kind
of make sure that things were going and feeling the
way that you kind of like or give suggestions or yeah,

(34:15):
we would go to you know, it started, it evolved
as I was there. I think for predapor J. I
think it was there like on set for something like
three or four days. It wasn't very long, and you
know it was it was tricky because I think that
we felt the writers, we would come to set and
it was so exciting to like, first of all, it

(34:36):
made us better writers because we could like be on
the sets and we could feel It's like there's just
nothing like that experience of just like being in the
space and understanding it more and writing to that. And
you know, we were would be like tourists on the
set like it was. It was because we only we
didn't have time to like build those relationships with you
guys and you know, and the crew as much. And

(34:58):
so I rememb number when I would go out, I
would really just like just trying to make an effort
to kind of get to know everybody better so that
a when I like if there was an issue where
we needed to I don't know, like I'm trying to
think of an example of it, but just the more

(35:18):
of a relationship you have with the crew and the actors,
the better it is, and so we would try and
sort of like integrate as best we could, and we
always got a lot out of it. And then as
the seasons went on, we would be out there for longer.
I think by the end, like I would be out
there for two weeks, and I was able to sort
of like get in there more. You know, also like

(35:39):
so that you guys felt like you could trust us
when there was like a line that wasn't working or
something like a scene wasn't working, that we could have
that conversation that there was a history and that there
was a rapport there right on that when writing and
then doing a transformation like Jenny's character, which was kind
of really starting around this time, Yeah, how was how
was doing that? Because it was it was really a

(36:00):
big change. I mean a lot of that, if I
remember quickly, was driven by her, right, I mean I
feel like it went like when you're watching it, it
felt real, It felt right. Maybe it's the age of Jenny.
And obviously Taylor's just such a great actor and carried
everything well both looks and the storylines and everything that
was going on. But yeah, when I was watching it

(36:22):
and Nate said that, like, do you do your hair.
I'm like, oh, here's kind of the start of like
this whole like change nugent. And I know it was
she talks about it, Josh and Stephanie did like it
was kind of driven by her. But on the other
flip side, how was that. I mean, she was a worker.
I mean it totally worked for the show, and it
was this other person, this other character who would cross

(36:43):
lines and who would test things in a way that
just like made great story and it was really fun,
and she pulled it off. And Taylor's a good actress,
Like she totally pulled it off. But yeah, I remember
being in you know, lining up with Taylor's own sort
of desires to you know, leading more into her music
career and not wanting to be so defined by Jenny Humphrey,

(37:05):
which I think is a real it's a tribute to
sort of everybody involved with Stephanie and Josh and Taylor
that they kind of honored the fact that this was
a teenage kid who was trying to like figure out
who she was in her real life and kind of
like letting that play, like letting the character play with
that too, I thought was really interesting and kind of

(37:25):
you know hopefully gave Taylor more of what she needed.
And then also it did work for Jenny, Yeah, I
think so, yeah, absolutely, and that you know, her badass
like monologue quitting situation with Eleanor. How was writing that
coming from a space of like, here's this girl that
was given the opportunity, her dad's giving her the blessing. Yeah,

(37:47):
I mean, well, it was tricky in the sense that
it's that thing that we're talking about where it's like,
on one level, she's just being so super entitled. And
I mean for me like comeing up like to speak
to a boss like that, I would never in a
million years do that, and her doing it, You're just like,
oh my gosh, You're getting this huge opportunity, like just

(38:08):
what are you doing? Take it? But it's so funny
because it's kind of like more in line with how
people are now, you know. And I don't mean that
in a disparaging way, but I mean like the part
of advocating for yourself and like not being taken advantage of.
But it was tricky because she was both right and wrong.
But her sort of standing up for herself with Eleanor

(38:29):
was really fun. But you were also like, oh, girl
like no, no, no, yeah, we're like almost yes if
you need to say something. But then you're like, sometimes
it's not like what you say, it's how you say it,
and maybe you shouldn't have said it that way. But
I'm glad that you like are sticking up for yourself
in a way. Yeah, like stick off for yourself. But
maybe don't burn down all the bridges, like maybe leave

(38:49):
one bridge just like standing like instead of torching it
all for sure. But but but also Eleanor was like,
I'm signed with child Labor and like if you used
to be a full night like such just life. Yeah,

(39:12):
those shots when they're all out and they're like black
and white and they're clicking and coming on and off
and the photographers taking pictures of them out and about
that looked so cool and so rad. Now did you
put that in the writing? Yes, So that particular was
really intentional because when we were talking about the Agnes
character in the room, I remember pretty clearly because it

(39:36):
was sort of a it was a real like clicking
moment for me creatively, because I remember we were talking
about at the time there was this photographer I think
they're still around, called like Cobra snake who would like
put up all these pictures from parties and stuff like that.
And this was before it was before Instagram, but it

(39:57):
was more like you would like see these And then
also like a Erican apparel was happening, and there were
all of these sort of partying images that were out there.
And then I remember like living in New York and
knowing girls like Agnes who were just like fuck it
and who were so bold and we're really really fun.

(40:20):
And I remember being in the room with Stephanie was
there and we were talking about this character and we
were just talking about this whole scene, and we started
to sort of looking at all these different pictures from
like advertising campaigns that sort of felt like that and
party pictures and that character Cobra Snake or that photographer

(40:41):
copor Snake and that whole world, and it was like, oh,
I was able to really drop into what that was
and built out that downtown New York like party scene
that I remember from when I was living there, and
that is so like has such a texture and a

(41:02):
visual that's different from the Upper east Side, that's different
from Brooklyn, and it you felt that watching it, like
or I felt that like I was like I felt
like I was like, yeah, in the Lower East Side
at a cool vibe fashion e like these kids all
grew up in New York because it's just a different,
different scene, a different scene, and the song was good
on it. I mean it was so so on point yeah,

(41:25):
And it was fun doing the picture, like I remember shooting,
like we definitely intentionally did the like having stills and
stuff like that, which was also part of the thing
of like again like predating Instagram, of that feeling of
like wanting to document your evening and have people see
it and share it, and then also a story that
like I feel like so many so funked up, like

(41:46):
so many of my friends had from like their teenage
in their in their twenties, especially in New York because
I grew up in l A. But because my parents
weren't publishing, we were in New York and my best
friend lived in New York, Like I knew that whole
world and I lived there where it's like it's fun
and then it's like it starts to get creepy around
young girls and you're just like, oh wait, like not yeah,

(42:09):
and sort of like shining a light on how that
sort of moment can tip and that Jenny, who feels
so mature like and who feels like she's an adult
and can handle this world, is suddenly in a situation
that has shifted you know, Yeah, okay, you had. There
was just so many fun things in this episode, like
the art exhibit and having to write in place a

(42:31):
scene in like an art exhibit gallery, like that is
like a character in itself. On top of like Serena
meeting this artist Aaron, like everything else that's going on
brings you like into this other world obviously, and I
know that's the point of the show, but I'm like
sitting there watching it and I'm like, I never went
to an art gallery until I left Milwaukee, do you

(42:52):
know what I mean? And not that there wasn't one there,
but being in New York it made me want to
go to all these different art galleries and in Brooklyn.
And the idea of that is like a social scene,
like as a social scene that you would like go
to a net at all and all ages would go
to it, and that that there is an intergeneral I mean,
like the show is intergenerational, and sometimes that was organic
and sometimes not, But like an art gallery as a
show is a place where it's so specific to that experience. Yeah, yeah,

(43:17):
and I just loved what you what you did with
it and all the all of the things, even the
like cecil the caterpillar that's a British children's rhyme and
did you how did you come up with that? Yeah? Well,
first of all, a shout out to like just the
production team on Gossip Girl, like who I forget how
they because there was like an art consultant as well,

(43:39):
and like Stephanie also like really had a lot to
do with the art on the show because she has
such a good eye and always had. But again back
to that sort of like visual component for Agnes, like
working with Stephanie and seeing how she used visuals. When
I was in sitcoms, it just wasn't as much of
it saying and it really clicked in a lot more
for me on Gossip Ral on this now just like

(44:00):
a huge driver and a lot of my work like
to get that vibe with things and with art. Stephanie
was always really just like clued in on stuff, and
so I want to say it was Lauren Weeks who
did the art, but like when you see those art
gallery shows that they get they would get artists to
do certain pieces, obviously, but I always was so blown

(44:20):
away by what they were able to pull off on
that show with the sets and the set design and
the locations and absolutely we talked about that a lot.
And Norman's like just so yeah, Norman, so wonderful, what
a what a man, what a lovely I know, look,
we're both like smiling. He really talented gentlemen. Yeah, such

(44:45):
a vision too. But he we got into that, like
just how much of having a set like that really
is helps bring a piece of that to the characters
and what they're doing for the scene and for the
storyline and for the moment. Like there's just so much. Yeah,
and they were so gay aame like and you know,
like it was I remember I think there was one
episode where like we shot in Dylan's candy shop and
was just like, what if we could shoot in Dylan's

(45:07):
candy And it's like yes, yeah. But in terms of
season of the Caterpillar and all that stuff, another thing
that was like fun about writing for the show is like,
well you see, it really into doing the research about
that kind of world, you know what I mean. So
I don't remember exactly how we got to that, but
it was like, okay, so if she had met him before, like,

(45:30):
where's it like a super Serena Andrew Woodson place to
meet somebody when she's six and you know, and what
would be like a fun Serena story they got married, Yeah,
that they had an organest licorice ring in the camp.
But like it's not like whatever camp in upstate New York,
Like no, like hers is in Switzerland and it's French,

(45:52):
and like it's like so fancy and those places exist.
And it was always like really fun to just like
so all of a sudden like do these deep dives
on those worlds and then get into the specifics of it.
And I really loved doing that. And you know, like
any time there was like a throwaway reference to some
sort of like designer or food thing that was happening

(46:13):
in New York or whatever, it was like we really
we would either just like with our friends were living
in New York and Josh Staffron always had like one
foot in New York, like very firmly planted, and whatever
it was, we did try to keep it connected, keep
it connected, and it was in the characters are so specific,
like you could like Vanessa's references were just like totally

(46:34):
different than the Serena's references, and they were totally drilled
down into like what her back story was and the
things that she thought were cool, and so it would
be fun to like research that stuff and get into
it for sure. And it makes it just like makes
you like when she did say where the camp was
and telling the whole story, You're very like right away,
You're like, that's so Serena. Of course that's where they met.

(46:55):
Like it was so on point. So here we were
talking about this earlier. Blair to get more advice from
Dan and comes all the way to Brooklyn, and there's
like a world in which I'm like, wow, I like
that Blair kind of needs Dan a little bit. I
like that. Yeah. But she gets there and unannounced to
Dan Chuck and Blair just like pulled one over on Vanessa,

(47:17):
was super rude and ridiculous to her. Poor vanessas not
poor j Poor v I know, so open hearted. I
know it was like a couple of episodes ago and
with the whole thing with the Lord and she goes
and ends up, you know, telling Catherine's husband about the
whole situation. It was like, she's not she was not

(47:38):
trying to like to do this. It was literally like,
let me just try to do the right thing for Nate,
whereas like when you get Chuck and Blair, there's like
ten to fifteen different things of why we gotta do
this for Nate, for for Serena, for the Lord, for
the family, which is also a testament to the writing
with how you guys tie that all together. It was
it was mind melting just so you know, it was

(48:00):
really hard, Like I literally remember that there were times
where I was like, I don't know my rams healthy
enough to keep all these beats in my head. But also,
you know, and there was a lot of because of
the O M F g AD campaign and that they
was so successful and people were so addicted to them,
there was always this pressure, but it was what the

(48:21):
show was to like have these moments in these twists,
and so it was always like looking for opportunities to
do it, and it kind of like a puzzle and
you can kind of you get really into it. I'm
finding that as I'm rewatching these, so I can't imagine
in your shoes or in your chair how that was
for all of the writers and producers and stuff. Yeah,
I mean some of the stuff is definitely like oh,

(48:42):
we know we're going to build to this and like
I can't wait, Like that's super exciting. And then there
were other times we were like, Okay, what can make
this moment turn? What can scare what's the scariest thing
to Serena? What's the most powerful weapon Blair has at
this moment? And it was alway tricky but fun. It's
just it's wild. It's like crazy. I'm like their brain
turn off at home or they constantly trying to put

(49:02):
this puzzle together for anyway, So we're here where Blair
shows up in Brooklyn and wants to get more advice
from Dan or talks talks to him. Then Dan is
talking with Vanessa. She drops that chuck and Blair just
used her as a chess piece and now here Dan
turns and it's like, Okay, you're not gonna mess with

(49:23):
my best friend Vanessa, which always like made my heart smile.
I'm like that's nice. That was like a moment that
like a Serena or Blair would do for each other,
like go Dan, Yeah, he like he had her back
and yeah, and always had her back unless Vanessa would
like getting with Serena and then he was like okay,
by So Dan kind of goes from good guy to

(49:43):
bad guy with with Blair like pretty quickly. Yeah, I
mean I always I thought it was interesting the way
Dan knew exactly what to say to Funk with Blair,
do you know what I mean? Like it shows that
he again like that intelligence, that he has that side,
and like he knew in that moment what to say

(50:04):
to sort of unravel at all and understood their psychology
and had no problem like stepping into that moment, you know.
So sort of seeing how he can change when Blair
comes into the picture, like it can bring out another
side of him was fun um and I thought an
interesting color on him in that moment. And then, uh,

(50:27):
Jenny at this point has the choice between Agnes or Nate,
And I think Nate is always trying to do the
best thing too. I I really I do with him. Yeah,
I just feel like he was always looking up for
Jenny even before, like be careful with Blair, be careful
with that whole click. So when he shows up to
like kind of like make sure she's okay, I'm like, yeah,

(50:47):
that's very nice. But don't hook up with her then, yeah,
or do what I don't know, Yeah, I mean with Nate,
and I mean he's got such a good heart. He's
just like, you know, this puppy dog who wants to
protect Jenny but also obviously wants to kiss her. Yeah,

(51:08):
it's just fun to like again, like seeing Nate Archibald
like be worried about Jenny, be protective of her, and
also that he is like a good kid who had
parents who like didn't do the right thing and parents
who have sucked him over. And he sees that Rufus
is like a good dad and like genuinely cares and

(51:29):
like Jenny has a dad who cares about him and
is trying to protect him, and like feeling that that
is influencing him as well. Yeah, it's it's such an
interesting dynamic because because of what he missed and his family,
like that dynamic with his parents and and all the
things they were hiding and going through, and then he
does see with Rufus is it's it's pretty special, you know. Yeah,

(51:49):
Like his childhood was so painful, like I know, living
when he's like when he's what is it like he's
um squatting and wanting in his own home and Dan
walks in like yeah, and then we go to um
Laren Chuck on the roof where now at this point,

(52:11):
she's taken the advice from Dan that she doesn't know
was because she messed with Vanessa, so she's kind of
going And here's like something I find very interesting because
Chuck and Blair go back and forth so much. But
the way they do it and the way you wrote
for it in this episode or in a lot of
the episodes, just the way they bring it to life

(52:35):
makes you not tired of it. Yeah, you're also I
think everyone just wants them to get together, so you're
just like, okay, is this the time? Okay, it'll be
the next time. Okay, it'll be the next time, or
when you're going to give in or do this? But
could you talk about like writing for that and building
that up over the Season's like when do you say
okay enough enough? Yeah? I mean, when you ever you
have a couple like that where you're playing with the

(52:56):
will they won't they? And you know or or will again?
The teas is the fun, you know what I mean?
Like that's the ride for the audience, and you know
that there's that moment where they are going to get together,
and you're building to that and you're sort of like,
that's the fun of it and that people are on
that ride and that there's fun and playing with the
audience and that and with the characters, and like, how

(53:19):
can you kind of like bring that to its most
heightened state so that when they do finally give in,
it's the most gratifying, you know, And so we talked
about that a lot and sort of like how do
you deliver that in the most exciting fun way? And
you know, with Chuck and Blair, because they're not earnest,

(53:40):
because they have this sort of devilish side of them,
it allowed for a lot of leeway in that world.
And because they would do all they were so broken
and sucked up that they would do dumb ship and
they would get in their own way and you would
see it. And again with both and Layton, they had
a way of using that vulnerability that they could play

(54:02):
that you would just forgive them so much and so
and then also we would tease the audience with the
things like the fantasy is like when you actually about
writing that sex scene, like we you know, we were
aware that it was a fantasy and it was heightened,
so you want to make it feel like a little
bit off maybe, you know, but also tricked the audience.
I mean a lot of us in the writer's room,

(54:22):
Jessica Queller, and I mean I think that Lila was
there at that point. I'm not quite I'm bad with
like timelines and stuff, but like we all loved like yearning,
and like we all were just like yearning, yearning, yearning,
and like more of that, and like we loved that stuff,
and I think all of us didn't, so it was
easy to sort of lean into it and it was fun. Yeah,

(54:45):
it's so fun. That's also another character. Yeah, so there
was Headmistress Queller, who was named after Jessica Queller, who
had been on Gossip. Were all for a long time.
I didn't realize how many we were using a lot,
I know. Great. So, yeah, they go up there to
talk on the room and they did. They just can't
say the words to each other. They just can't do it.
They're going to keep this going. And now we're back

(55:08):
at the gallery layers getting there, Serena finds out that
Dan did this one thing. I do have to give
Dan credit for he'll kind of just like when he's
in the wrong, he'll apologize and say, yeah, I actually
did say that, or he goes right to Chuck to
tell him, listen, that was on me. He owns up
to it, he really will. He doesn't try to like
lie or cover it up or beat around the bush.
He'll kind of just like take it on, which I respect.

(55:31):
And it's also like the Dan and Chuck scenes were
always also really fun because they couldn't stand each other,
but then there would be these like little grudging moments
of respect that we're fun. Yeah, even in that stairwell
where Chuck's going down and he stops him and says, listen,
she did mean it and she does love you, and
that you see like Chuck taking it in and you know,

(55:52):
wanting to be there. Yeah, they're they're dynamic. Is They
did a great job with that as well. Yeah. So now, okay,
so Dan and Serena are walking and she gets the
riddle in her mind as she's sitting there and tells
it to Dan and you kind of see Dan's like heartbreak.
Kind of yeah, it's heartbreak, Like here's the thing. He
there's obviously still feelings there and you want to like

(56:14):
be happy for the person that you're no longer with,
but respect, and that's what I feel like he respects Serena.
But sometimes you're not like Okay, I'm ready to just
like watch you like prants off with this like artist
good looking artist guy. Either. No, he totally still loves her.
They stn't love each other always, and she figures out

(56:36):
this riddle goals and he's like, well, of course that's
he's the ex husband. I'm just the ex boyfriend. And
the heartbreak of like seeing him like how hard that
is for him to like let her go, but that
he's not going to stand in her way and like yeah,
which is also sometimes the true love, right do, Like
he knows who he loves. He loves Rinda ander Woodson

(56:57):
and like her life is just always going to be
big and wild and you know for sure like to
even when he heard her laugh through the art exhibit,
I felt I thought that was such a nice little touch, like,
oh that's Serena's laugh. Also, Serena's laugh was so contagious
in general, so it was like lovely. I'm like, yes,
now Aaron's gonna fall in love with her as well.
She's like a literal goddess, like a voice from like

(57:20):
a disembodied voice, like coming through the speakers totally. And
then she gets there and she sees Aaron getting on
this motorcycle. By the way, that was a shocking moment.
You'm like, here's gonna be a fun little night or
fun little storyline. And then boom, another girl gets on
the motorcycle with him, and now we have like Serena's
upset because of Aaron, Dan's upset because of Serena. Does

(57:43):
Serena just go home there? Do you call Dan then
and say, hey, he left with another girl? I mean,
I think the old Serena would have like gone downtown
to a club and like found somebody to entertain her.
I think that, you know, trying to be different, Serena
goes home and thinks about what she's done. I know,

(58:05):
but you know it's fun about screen is like everything
with her could be so extra. So you know that
when she's the guy who does her with her is
the guy from the boarding school where they got married,
you know, in the south of France or Switzerland wherever
it was. And then like I think she becomes his
muse and like being able to like go to those
like crazy extra places with her was yeah, I mean,

(58:26):
I keep saying, it's just fun. It's just fun, just
always really fun. It was fun to it's fun to
watch and like living out fantasies of like what that
is Like It's like, you can what would it be
to be like in high school and be an artist's
muse Like sure, sure, right, yeah, of course exactly. Of
course that's it's not like, let's do that. When Chuck

(58:56):
and Blair have the conversation where he's just like, what
do you see do you see Blair and Tuck going
to the movies? But Blair and Chuck holding hands and
She's like, well, they don't have to do that, and
his moment of basically being like the only reason why
this has been fun for us is because we both
like the not saying I love you and not doing
the things that are you know what you kind of
doing a relationship, like hanging out and walking down the

(59:17):
street holding hands. And there was a moment when Chuck's
like looking at her as she's sitting there looking stunning
like Layton Lair. I mean, come on, I'm like her skin,
her hair, she was just looking flawless which she does
all the time. But you know, and the fact that
she's like a natural blonde, Like I'm always like, no,
like that's not like she's brown hair. She has brown here. Yeah,

(59:37):
And just at that moment he's breaking up with Blair,
I mean, and that really felt like, Okay, this is
just not going to work with them now they're here's
where it kind of ends for for now. I mean,
obviously we know it's a show and things can go,
but it just felt so real to the point it
felt so what he was saying made sense. I'm like, Okay,
you are right, you guys, this is the only reason

(59:57):
it's working is because you guys like this like tugg
a war and it's like cat and mouse game. So
like I'm sitting there like, damn it, but i don't
want this to end. Yeah, you know. My memory of that,
honestly is that that sort of came out of our
experience as writers and writing for the characters, which is
like we would talk about, like you're saying, like when
do you choose to get a character where and do

(01:00:18):
you choose to put characters together? And we turned through
stories so fast on that show that like it was
always hard to like draw things out, and with Chuck
and Blair, I think that we struggled with, like, Okay,
if we do get them together, then what are we
going to do put them on dates where they go hold?
Like what does that look like? And I think that
in our sort of like struggle with that question, we

(01:00:40):
sort of found the answer to that moment, which is like,
this is the truth of what it is like. And
so we we kind of leaned into that in sort
of telling that story in that moment because that was
too that and I do remember that there was a moment.
My memory of it is that Robbie Hall came up
with the idea of like that game about saying I
love View and when he said that, for all of us,

(01:01:02):
it just kind of like very much clicked that that
was the thesis of their relationship, that there was always
going to be a power struggle and that these two
were just like so protective and they both did have
these like very vulnerable sides of them that they were
just like going to protect at all costs, and it
was always going to get in their way and it
was always going to have this to wild cats playing

(01:01:25):
who could like if they're not careful could like really
hurt each other. And so it's just like kind of
once we locked into that idea, the more we sort
of dug into the truth of it, it kind of
carried itself because it was it was true to who
they were, right, which is so interesting as as the
show goes on, But or where could lead I don't

(01:01:46):
even know because I haven't I don't even remember what
I've seen coming up still, like it's been so long.
When I rewatched it, I was like, oh, yeah, right.
What I mean by that though, is even if they
decide right now that they're going to be done, there's
something because there is like a true connection and feeling
there for each other that it's almost like even if

(01:02:07):
they know deep down like we can't do this, they're
never really going to be fully over each other either though,
you know what I mean, which is part of the
whole thing, which is why it's brilliant. Yeah, Like what
happens when you meet your match and you're in high school,
like you know, it's like it's too young, it's too
young to meet that person. Okay, So let's like get
towards the end where like now here's where the music

(01:02:28):
drops and the gossip rold quote is coming in and
that how soon is now by tattoo t a tu
and this um. I jumped ahead a little bit before
about when Nate showed up to get Jenny, that whole
night and evening of him watching her go from the gallery.
But here's where when she showed up and she's like
in her broad dancing, there was a moment in which
I'm like, oh my god, is Jenny going to hook

(01:02:49):
up with her model friend and the photographer like someone
needs to come and get her because she's like the
kids vulnerable and young and a kid. And then long
behold it's Nate Archibald. And then he's like, I'm gonna
you shouldn't be in this situation. You should be in
this situation with me. Yeah, I mean definitely. When you
go back and look at some of the Gossip Girl stuff,

(01:03:10):
it's problematic through a lot. You're just like, oh, I
mean not so good, but so entertaining. I mean yeah,
and well, and then and the Nate thing with Jenny, Yeah,
why do you think, what's what's his attraction to her?
You know? I think that he likes her spirit and
that she is just sort of this like unexpected surprising person.

(01:03:35):
And I feel like I have so many memories of
like Nate looking at women with just like awe and
that he just like kind of captured her his imagination. Um.
And I also feel like he was even though he
like judged the Humphreser, was like this part of him
that was like a little bit in love with the
idea of this family that was like together and there

(01:03:58):
for each other, and it was kind of like a piece.
But yeah, he just sees how fierce Jenny is. And
also I'm sure there's a part of them is like
I'm I rescued to you, so before something, I kiss you.
And then they both in this episode saw each other
with their shirts off with it until we're just talking
to I didn't really like quite realize which is cute.
Cute for them yeah, even the score. Um. So they

(01:04:19):
go out into the streets of New York and that
was like a wow moment for me because I had
not seen the episode, and I'm like, Okay, so now
what's day. I'm gonna say, what's Rufe is gonna say,
you better not break Jenny's heart, Nate, Yeah, or Vanessa
will come after you. But I liked that turn at
the end too, and then it just it leaves you
there and and you're like, you know, just another ending

(01:04:42):
to a Gossip l episode with so much just thrown
at you. Yeah, and just like I mean, we were
always looking for opportunities for just putting people into situations
that were impossible. So it's like if you're gonna have
Nate Archibald saying at the Humphreez and like of course
there's going to be a secret romance with Jenny, it's like,
you know, the more we can just kind of like

(01:05:03):
have that sort of backing characters into a corner and
having to get out of it, and also just the
fun of like sneaking around and all of that sort
of deliciousness that you get in high school with those
like you know, those hookups, I think the more it
was just more fun at it. Yeah, And we would
just like we would look for those moments, you know, Right,

(01:05:26):
it was such a good episode. But here's the closing
Gossip Girl quote. The problem with fairy tales is that
they set a girl up for disappointment in real life,
the prince goes off with the wrong princess, or the
spell wears off, and two lovers realize they're better off
as well, whatever they are. But I'll confess, every once
in a while a girl craves her fairy tale ending

(01:05:48):
sleep tight kitties. It seems like little Jay got her
happily ever after. XL XL gossip Girl. Yeah, it's a
great gossip Girl quote. Well, and again my secret agenda
of like dismantling fairy tales where it was at that
time my daughter, you know, she was little and I

(01:06:09):
was reading her. I wasn't really into princesses growing up,
but she was. I mean, people gave me these books
and I was reading all these fairy tales, and the
whole thing was like and then they kissed and they
got married and they lived happily ever after. And I
started to just get like so bothered by that. So
I started changing the endings of fairy tales when I

(01:06:30):
was reading them to my daughter to be like. And
then they spent a year getting to know each other,
and they traveled and they would have fights, but they
would work it out, and they you know, there were
good times and bad times, but the good times far
outway the bad times, and they came together in mutual
respect and understanding and then they got married, right. I
love that Mathema Cinderella and Prince Charming. That So I

(01:06:52):
was always like in my mind, like thinking about I
was seeing about fairy tales a lot at the time,
and obviously, like in writing and in themes and what
the show was like, there is this like fairy tale
element to it. But I was just constantly like, I
that has been something that I've wanted to do and
the idea of subverting the idea of fairy tales, and

(01:07:14):
and it was also just a fun gossip girl thing
to write and it was great. Yeah, I loved it. Uh,
this was so fun. I want to like do another
like rewatch with you because hearing from on your end,
just some of the things that go into it, we
just don't know, like we get the script sometimes, you know,
get the script and show up and it was just yeah,

(01:07:35):
I remember. The one thing I always was like, wow,
I don't know how they do it was just being
so far away from the sets. The fact that you
guys were able to feel as connected as we did
to you, and as we did to the writing and
to the sets and all the things when you guys
were literally in l A and we were in New
York and you know, if we were getting up in
my call, Tom was six am. I mean that's in
the middle of the night for you guys. So it's

(01:07:56):
like just a whole different thing. And I always really
respected that we I never felt like a disk thank
you that. I really appreciate that. I mean, as the writers,
like we felt, you know, it was hard to be
away from set sometimes just because there is that fun
of you know that we're all on the same team.
And also like Gossip Girl was like it was such

(01:08:17):
an exciting time, Like it was so cool seeing like
I remember there would be in Vulture. Were you guys
aware of this that there would be the Vulture recaps
every week of the episodes? And I don't know if
I remember that. I just remember what that was. Like, Yeah,
they would do like things called like the Reality Index,
or after each episode they would like write like what

(01:08:38):
was like real New York and what was fake and
they would kind of like do a breakdown of the episode,
and like that was like that was before that ever happened,
Like it was you would write it, you know, like
I wrote episodes of TV, and like the feedback from
just wasn't there and you know, there were ratings that
or you know, people would be fans that you'd meet

(01:08:58):
sometimes like with us a girl, Like the interaction with
the fans and the media was so m heightened and
immediate and it was exciting and it was cool to
see people respond and react and like and it was
such a moment that was happening that we were all
part of and experiencing in these different ways. And so

(01:09:20):
I think in some level, like it was on some
level it was hard to be far away. Um. Also
just because the more, like I said before, like the
more time we all interact, the better it is. But
I feel like we were able to achieve a lot
and like that, Like Stephanie did a really good job
of doing that, And when we would make those trips
out to New York, we got so much out of it,

(01:09:42):
and um, and it was also just like super fun, Like,
you know, my family's in Los Angeles, like I live
in l A. But I would I lived in New
York in my twenties and I would get to go
to New York and go to set and work. But
then that night I could go out to places that
we were going to write about in the next episode.
Or you know, it was just fun to like plunge

(01:10:02):
into life for in that way. Yeah, I know, so great.
It makes me sometimes like right now I'm getting all
these feelings of like like going back and like being
in the middle of season two and like, well, because
that's when it Season two was, like it was when
it really hit. Like I think we did twenty six episodes, Yeah,
there was. It was like more than twenty two, and

(01:10:24):
it was real. It was really long. Yeah, it was very,
very long. And and that was when sort of the
fans kind of really found the show. And I remember
it going from being sort of just like a couple
of fans showing up and then all of a sudden
just like having security and people finding out where it
was and and then people bustole scripts. Did you know

(01:10:47):
about this about how they used to We had to,
like by the end of the show, we had to
have like these codes forgetting for going onto our computers
because like some of the writer's computers got hacked in
scripts got stolen. We talked about this a couple of times,
because there was a time in which we would get
the scripts or lines, but they would be exed out.

(01:11:08):
So if it was like Vanessa saying, Hey, Dan, I
gotta talk to you about Serena. It would just say Vanessa,
and then that whole line would be ex's little exits,
but the whole scene would be that. So I would
literally be like, I don't even know what my dialogue
the morning. And you can see how long they would be,
how many exes would be there, like if it was
a full paragraph or if it was two lines. So

(01:11:29):
sometimes if it was a three page scene and they
were full paragraphs, I would be like really nervous of
like not being able to get that down because you
also know, as how TV works, you're on a time
crunch too, so it's like, like, how did they expect
us to like learn these lines at six a m.
In the morning when I'm like getting my hair curled,
And that's crazy. I didn't know that you guys weren't

(01:11:50):
getting it, Like that's note. I mean there was. It
didn't happen very long or than they got it. Then
thinks they figured out a way to do it where
we'd maybe get it the night before. But there was
like I remember couple of times where I showed up
and I was learning my lines on the day. That's wild. Yeah,
that's not And it could have been where I wasn't
first up and had a couple of hours or whatever.
I just remember it was like, I don't know, if
someone went in a garbage can and took something out

(01:12:12):
and put it online. There was like something major that
I think some extras got got sides or got their
hands on something, but no, but then some actual like
some of the writers or computers literally were hacked, which
I'm just like really like, I okay, but yeah, I
got a little wild there for a while. Mm hmm.

(01:12:35):
There was a lot going off behind the scenes and
that in those kind of situations with the security, with
the hacking and that, like, and then we were like
bringing a show to life that was like drama Feld.
So it was it was kind of like parallel, like yeah,
you're paranoid. It's like, yes, you are being watched. Actually yeah,
here we actually are. You're on a show about people
literally putting you on blast, but they're actually in life

(01:12:56):
putting you on black. Yeah. I remember I used to
get my car repaired at this place in Hollywood and
the mechanic was this guy Rafael, and he was lovely
and he was a huge fan of the show, and
so whenever I would like drop my car off, he
would like ask me questions and we would and we
would talk about the show. I remember once I was like, oh,
there are scripts in the back of the car. I'm like,

(01:13:18):
do I have to worry about Rafael like like, no, no,
it's fun. We're good. He's pretty focused on his family
and getting the cars. But like that, it literally got
to that point where you you did get a little paranoid. Certain, yes, yes,
And I think part of it is writing it and
being it and like everybody is watching and then those
little moments happening. It was It's funny. Yeah, it was. Yeah,

(01:13:42):
a lot going on, but so fun and I'm so
glad you got to come on and do this. What
a fun rewatch and like breaking it down like you
have a lot of fun facts. Well, thank It was
really it was great revisiting it and rewatching it and
remembering it, and it was you know, that was my
first time that I wrote a script for a show

(01:14:03):
where I was just like, oh, this is just so
joyful and I really loved doing it, and it changed
the course of my career because I was just like,
this is the kind of thing I want to do
where it's like you have the dramedy, but there's a
comedic element to it, and there's a strong visual and
all the things. It was just like it really like

(01:14:24):
hit for me, and also Stephanie and Josh like giving
the writers the opportunity to producer episodes and you know,
go into the editing bay and be there for the
music spotting sessions and all of that allowed me to
learn how to do what I do now and be
able to run my show. And so I really just
knew that I was on the right path when I
came to Gossip Girl and loved it. I sure were,

(01:14:46):
and we felt that too. For anyone that are watching
the episodes that you wrote and produced feel the same way.
I mean it's I was a total dork, no, but
like who we'll take it anyway if we're gonna give
us episodes like that, you know what I mean? Well,
I remember you're turning in that episode. John Stevens left
of voicemail for me, like telling me I had done
a good job, and like I've literally saved that voicemail

(01:15:09):
for years, Like I was like still like I did it.
I did it, as like here's my letting video, and
here's my voicemail from John Stephen. I love that. It
was a good feeling. So I was very happy when
you asked about this episode. So thank you for inviting me.
Oh my gosh, we are so pleased to have you. Yeah,
and and do you want to talk about what you're
working on now? I'm sure everyone, after knowing like how

(01:15:31):
talented and amazing you are, would love to go and
watch what you're doing, if they're not already. I just
finished up working on a show called with Love on
Amazon and it's so fun and wonderful. People should check
it out. Season one is actually already on Amazon right now.
And I was on season two. Um, and then I
actually just sold a show to Amazon that I'm going

(01:15:53):
to be jumping into really soon. Yeah. I loved having
you on. It was good to see your face. It
was great to see your face. It was so much fun.
How old is your daughter now? She's fourteen? Okay, I
was trying to do the math. Okay, that makes sense.
She was eight months and yeah, she was fourteen. And
we've started watching the shows and she loves them and

(01:16:16):
it's really fun and it's uh yeah, it's really nice
too to revisit it with her too, even though I'm
just like, I can't believe I'm watching this to you,
but it's also great. But that's awesome that you get
to do that with her and be like, I'm also
a part of why this show is here for you
right now. Yeah, in a world where you're just like
trying to get a little credibility with your teenager. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah,

(01:16:40):
I was just filming a show. Bowie was six months old,
so you know the vibe and it's it's a lot,
it's intense. Yeah, congratulations, by the way, thank you. It's
really the best thing in the whole world. But yeah,
and Kelly and I talked about it. Oh yeah, because Kelly,
you know, she had the baby. We kept having to
give her giant shopping bags to cover her belly. Yeah,

(01:17:02):
it's like she really went to Gucci. She's there, she
got their extra extra large. Well, thank you so much,
and I'm sure like we'll be rewatching a lot more
of your stuff and I'll let you know. Thank you.
It was really fun. It was it was great doing
at Jessica. Thank you for inviting me, Amanda. What an

(01:17:26):
episode you really brought it, And thank you so much
for joining us today to share your wisdom and for
bringing Gossip Girl to life for everyone else. Catch Amanda's
latest show with Love on Amazon and be sure to
subscribe to this show wherever you get your podcasts. We'll
see you back here next week. Don't miss out. X

(01:17:47):
O x O x O XO is produced by Propagate
Content and Met Jessica's Or. Our show is executive produced
by Langley. Our producers are Diego Tapia, Christin Vermilia, Emily Carr,
and Hannah Harris. Original music by Moxie and Lund, and
the episode was mixed by seth ol Landsky.