September 10, 2021 • 51 mins
As a Senator for New York on September 11th, 2001, Hillary witnessed the devastation at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Afterwards, she was deeply involved in the response and recovery efforts.
For her, every anniversary of 9/11 is an opportunity to commemorate the victims, survivors, first responders, and their families. So on this special episode of You and Me Both, she is joined by three people directly impacted by 9/11—to listen to their stories, and talk with them about how they’ve worked to rebuild their own lives and the lives of others.
Debbie St. John was walking to work on 9/11 when she was severely injured by falling debris from the second plane hitting the World Trade Center. She was one of the first survivors to be hospitalized, and one of the last to leave the hospital. While she continues to live with the trauma and pain from injuries sustained on that day, she now dedicates much of her time to writing a book on her story and how she was able to overcome opioid dependency.
Regina Wilson is a 22-year veteran with the Fire Department of the City of New York. She’s one of the few Black female firefighters among the ranks, and was on the scene and at Ground Zero in the aftermath, alongside her fellow first responders. Regina is a longtime advocate for the women first responders who served that day, and a past president of the Vulcan Society representing African American firefighters, EMTs, fire inspectors, fire marshals, and civilian employees of the FDNY.
Jay Winuk is a co-founder and executive vice president of the September 11 National Day of Service and Remembrance. After losing his brother Glenn on 9/11, Jay turned his grief into a remarkable effort to do good, and transform a day of tragedy into one service. 9/11 Day continues to be one of the biggest charitable events every year, organizing upwards of 30 million people around the world.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. Hi.
I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is a special episode of
You and Me Both. September eleven has come to be
about a lot of things over the years, counter terrorism, war,
economic and physical recovery, and of course remembering. But for me,
(00:25):
the anniversary is always first and foremost about the victims, survivors,
first responders, and their families. It's about the people who
lived through this devastating tragedy, the pain, loss, health challenges,
and emotional trauma they've experienced, but also the remarkable strength
(00:50):
and resilience they've displayed. As a Senator for New York
on that day and in the aftermath, I joined in
witnessing the devastation at the World Trade Center in New York,
at the Pentagon in our nation's capital, and at Shanksville, Pennsylvania,
(01:10):
and I was deeply involved in the response and recovery
efforts that followed. Today, I want again to focus on
those impacted directly by September eleven, to listen to their
stories twenty years later, and to talk with them about
how they've rebuilt their own lives. So I'm speaking with
(01:34):
Regina Wilson, a twenty two year veteran with the Fire
Department of the City of New York. She's one of
the few black female firefighters among the ranks and was
on the scene that day and at Ground zero in
the aftermath alongside her fellow first responders. I'll also be
(01:54):
talking with Jay Winnick, who lost his brother Glenn in
the World Trade Center and then went on to create
the nine eleven Day of Service in Glenn's memory. But first,
I am delighted to be reconnecting with Debbie st. John.
Debbie is one of the most heroic women I know.
(02:17):
On her way to work that beautiful September Tuesday morning,
Debbie was struck by falling debris from the second airplane
when it hit the World Trade Center. Her legs were crushed,
she lost consciousness, and she was admitted to New York
University Downtown Hospital as Jane Doe Number one. Nobody even
(02:41):
knew who she was. I visited with Debbie in the
hospital days after nine eleven, and then we kept in
touch over the years as her recovery from countless success
of surgeries and rigorous physical therapy turned into a year's
long battle with opioid dependency. Through it all, Debbie remains
(03:06):
one of the most determined and optimistic people I've ever met,
and I was so happy that she could join me
for this episode. I cannot tell you how happy I
am to talk with you. I have to start by asking,
how are you feeling as the twentieth anniversary of September
(03:27):
eleven approaches. I think about you so often, and I
would bet this is a particularly challenging time for you.
You know, It's interesting because as much as I'm so
related to nine eleven, I'm not really emotionally attached to it,
because the only bit of nine eleven that's really real
(03:51):
in a sense to me is the visual of the
second plane hitting the building that I saw and then
thinking to run. That's my largest memory of all unleven,
including the hospital. So I didn't think the twentieth anniversary mattered,
But I'm finding I'm a bit more attached, and it's
(04:11):
affecting me emotionally more than I thought, probably because I'm
talking about it more than I've ever talked about I
bet that's right. You have shared with me and others.
I know what happened to you on September eleven. You
were on your way to work at the World Financial
Center when that second plane hit and then you were
hit by falling debris that left you severely injured. I
(04:37):
wanted to ask you to, you know, just reflect about
what you do remember and about your recovery from that day. Wow.
For me, most of my story is from what people
told me. Um. I just turned thirty years old on
June one. I truly believed, without a shadow of a doubt,
it was going to be the best year of my life.
(05:00):
I had worked my butt off to be professionally where
I wanted to be, educationally where I wanted to be,
and the last probably five years before nine eleven, really
worked on myself emotionally, you know, to be the happiest
and most hopeful, positive person I could be. And I
woke up that morning and I woke up Greg, my fiance,
(05:20):
and I showed him I was wearing the shirt that
he bought me for my birthday, and I went to
the subway, the one in the nine, to go to
World Trade. The plane must have hit while we were
probably still in the subway car, because by the time
we got up to the stairs, the doors opened and
they were big guys with big um I remember the
(05:42):
shirts I think they were Navy with yellow writing with
w TC on them. But they said, we're going to
take you to safety. We walk out, and then I
remember looking up seeing the second well I didn't know
it was the second, but seeing a plane hit the
World Trade Center, someone yelled, run for cover. I saw
(06:03):
a construction awning, which is probably not the best thing
to run for cover over, but it was the only
thing I can find. And my last thought was I
have the worst shoes on for running. I thought it
was like my fault for wearing those shoes. And Greg,
it said to me, if you would run a second
slower or a second fest or you might not be alive.
(06:24):
That's why I remember. And Greg was then your fiance,
now your husband my husband? Yes, And the rescuers literally
picked you up off the sidewalk, and I guess rushed you,
carried you to the hospital as far as you remember,
Is that right. So there's four men who helped save me,
Paul Stefen, Orlando and Frank Orlando and Frank were the
(06:48):
a m T. S. Stefan saw the first plane hit.
He was I think a medic or helped out in
that capacity. So he decided to go head down to
the Wall Trade Center and CYA he could help, so,
he said he noticed me as soon as I hit
the street. He saw when the second plane hit, and
(07:09):
he saw me look scared. He saw me run, and
we were running together. I believe, he said. I was
on the left side of him, and he kept track
of me, someone he never met before or I knew
anything about. And um, he saw a huge it looked
like a propeller. I'm assuming this was part of the
landing gear coming towards us, and he thought we were
(07:30):
going to die. And the next thing he knows, I'm
thrown back. The propeller goes two feet into like a
cement wall, and he's feet away from me. I never
thought about what it must have been like after the
plane hit. You know, it's like a war zone. It's
like the apocalypse happening, burning pieces. I never thought of
(07:51):
any of that. I never really knew that he saw
all this and he chose to go run to death.
Pretty much for a stranger, it's nice to know that
there's kindness in really bad times, and that you know,
people really try to be there for each other, even
(08:12):
though it doesn't really look like it right now. I
mean That is one of the lasting lessons for me
is at that time, people did come together, They did
help each other, They tried to do whatever they could
in the moment of such crisis and tragedy. Your journey
is so incredible because you were severely injured. My butt
(08:39):
was literally on the road next to me, sliced off.
I mean when I visited you in the hospital, the
doctors and this was just a day or two after
nine eleven, you know, we're just amazed that you were
still going, given the devastation of the injuries that you suffered.
And I remember going to see you. I heard that,
(09:02):
you know, there there were people who had been injured.
And I remember walking into your hospital room, Debbie, and
you had these beautiful braids you had. Your hair was
in braids. The nurse ran up ten minutes before you
got here. For those reasons, I'll tell you. In the building,
I'll tell you you looked at gelic even though you
(09:24):
were devastatingly injured. You were so brave, Debbie. I remember
when I first saw your determination in action, when you
told me you were going to dance at your wedding.
This this young woman lying in this hospital bed, who
(09:46):
many many people thought would never walk again, let alone
dance again five or survived. Let's be honest, uh telling
me I am going to dance at my wedding. And
you know what, I can attest to that because I
came to your wedding. I watched you walk down the
(10:06):
aisle and myself and have that first dance. That determination,
your absolute tenacity in the face of the worst kind
of trauma. I just was so inspiring. Can you talk
about that moment and what made it such a milestone. Well,
(10:27):
first of all, you have to think about what I've
been going through is eighteen months in the hospital and
then the next three years, every three months I had
a surgery. Yeah, so the year of the wedding, I
took the year off to get healthy, and it was
like kind of being an athlete for it. I trained
for it, I was working out, I was doing physical therapy.
(10:50):
I was doing everything I could. Thank God, at that point,
I wasn't sick on the opioids. Although I was sick.
I did throw up for two hours in the middle
of my wedding, and no one knew. I did not
know that. But um, I feel like in many ways
I was born this way. And I had a very
difficult childhood. I had to be a warrior to get
(11:13):
through my childhood. I also believe my gift to the
world is that a model healing. Yes, you do. I'm
wondering whether, as you think about the last twenty years,
is there some lesson that you would like other people
to take from, not just nine eleven, but from what
(11:34):
you've gone through. Well, you know, since I've figured out
about opioids, and less opioids mean less pain. And everyone
in the country talks about opioid addiction, but no one
talks about opioid dependency, which is millions of people. That's true,
and that's me. I'm the face of opioid dependency. Well,
(11:55):
you were in agony, and you were in pain for
so many years, and then I also had something called
opioid induced hyper algees yet, which is very common and
every payment mint doctor knows about it, but they don't
talk about it. And that's anyone who's on opioids for
an extended period of time, and that could be a week.
The opioids mess your nervous system and your brain up
(12:15):
so much that your body goes on the defense and
it causes all the pain. I was living on a
hundred milligrams and Methodona day. My level of pain from
one to ten was an eight to eleven. Seriously, and
I'm completely off of Methodona. I'd say I'm before on
(12:35):
once ten, I don't really have chronic pain. When you
think about your own journey and all of the challenges,
what do you want people to know about recovering from
trauma and in the case of so many recovering from
opioid dependence, what words of hope encouragement that helped you
(12:58):
that you can share. Well, I'll be Over the years,
when anyone we know has gone through a major tragedy,
I usually get a phone call M and um. The
last one, which was a long time ago, was UM,
my husband's best friend's wife lost the baby at eight
a half months. Oh God. And she called me up
and she said, what do I do when I feel
(13:21):
like my world is ending and I'm in all this pain?
How do I go on? And I've been asked that
a lot, And it's when life is so bad and
all you're doing is suffering. You have to find the
moments to hold onto and you have to give yourself goals.
(13:44):
I mean, for me, a lot of times, my only
goal is to get out of bed. M hm. You
have to make really really small goals, but you must
have goals, and once you achieve your goal, you must
celebrate your successes. So what is next for you? I mean,
now you're focused on your recovery from opioid dependence. What
(14:11):
else is motivating you. My twin girls turned ten this
past April, and it was the first time we went
on a family vacation because I was well enough. I
was at Universal Studios. Me who can't even like do
three hours of work sometimes from ten thirty in the
morning until six pm at night. It was so much fun.
(14:33):
You forget like I was always a big ride fan before,
but you know, I got no butt, like you think,
can I do these things? And truly just feeling that
elation and excitement and fear and all that that comes
to the ride. It made me remember the joy of things,
you know like that. So for me, like the girls,
(14:56):
are you talking about it? What our next trip is?
And I think it or not. I think it's gonna
be to Washington, d C. In the spring. Excellent. I've
never been to the White House. I think it'd be
really cool for them to see that. I would love
for you to see that me too, you know. And
the other thing that I really want to do is,
you know, our country is and I want to talk
(15:16):
a pandemic. We are in an opio epidemic and the
world as well, but no one talks about the millions
of us behind closed doors suffering with our families watching
us on opioid dependency. So for me, the biggest thing
that I want to do in any way possible is
to save people from the twenty years of opioid dependency
(15:39):
that I had to live through because not eleven might
have changed my life drastically in a moment, but opioids
is what's stopped it for twenty years. And I really
feel like if the message gets out that people really
understand that the opioids is what's causing your pain and
making you feel worse, I really feel that that can
(15:59):
change the true factory of this epidemic and of addiction independency.
Your courage is inspiring and will get people to pay attention. Debbie.
I hope so, and I can't wait to see what
the next time in twenty years means to you and
your family. God bless you. I'm excited, take care, Thank
(16:19):
you so much. After twenty years spent rebuilding her life,
Debbie is now starting to publicly share her story. She's
currently writing a book about surviving nine eleven and then
overcoming opioid dependency. Knowing Debbie, I know it's going to
(16:43):
be a terrific read. Regina Wilson was only a few
years into her career as a New York City firefighter
when the attacks of September eleventh took place. She was
also then and now one of the very few women,
let alone women of color in the department. But that morning,
(17:05):
she was just starting the second of two back to
back shifts at her station in Brooklyn when the news
broke and the firehouse alarm sounded, and so she, like
so many other first responders, ran toward danger. She got
on the truck, she made her way to Lower Manhattan
with her fellow firefighters. She assisted in the immediate rescue
(17:28):
efforts that day and then the arduous search and recovery
mission in the months that followed. I was so honored
that Regina shared her story with me, and I am
so pleased to share that story with you. Welcome to
the show, Regina, Thank you. I am thrilled to see you.
(17:50):
We won't be able to convey to everyone listening to
this podcast everything special about you, particularly your extraordinary singing voice,
which I've had the privilege of hearing uh several times.
But it's great to be with you, and I just
want to start by checking in how are you doing,
How did you get through the pandemic? How are you
(18:13):
facing all of the weather and related challenges that we
now confront Well, first, I want to start off us
saying it's such an honor to be on your podcast.
I mean, I've loved you since. Hopefully you remember the
time that we got stuck in California. It was a
group of women and you were able to get us
back home. The airline we flew all went out of business.
(18:35):
I was like, how does that happen? And so you
came and saved the day and got us home, and
just to see how much compassion and care you have
for all of us and wanted to make sure we
got home safely. From then, I've I've always been a
champion of yours and I will continue to be. But
on this side, um, it's been a difficult two years,
(18:57):
especially adjusting to so much to death going on in
the city, and how we had to shift a lot
of gears and be creative with how we were going
to help the citizens of New York, and then just
the looming thought of this disease that may ravish us
and our family. It was very difficult time. I am
(19:19):
grateful to guy that I definitely made it through and
my family did. But it's just a hard toll to
bear to see that your neighbors and you know, the
person that you always greeted at the store or you
know at the car wash or the gas station is
no longer there, and to see how just hard it
hurt this city. But I'm doing well right now. It's
(19:41):
just it's just a really busy time, and this week
is it's tolling enough. But it's just a really hard time.
I totally understand that because you have been on the
front lines for more than twenty years now, so much
that has happened in the city, and be before we
jump right into your experiences on nine eleven, I wanted
(20:05):
to ask you a little bit about your history and
your life before that day. What made you decide to
become a firefighter. Had you ever known any firefighters or
have any role models. Absolutely not. It was nowhere in
my radar. Nothing I've ever thought about doing. When I
(20:26):
went to school, I wanted to come out and be
in corporate America. Right, that's when you come out of college.
Most of the times, you know, you want to get
into different fields. But it's never, um think about blue
collar how to really get in touch with the neighborhood.
You want to try and move outside of it. So, um,
I actually was at an expo at Jacob Javis Center
(20:50):
because I went there to look for clothes in the
latest styles and what was going on in black culture.
So when I was stopped by these firefighters, you know,
I didn't really pay them any mind. I'm like, I'm
like here to get bags. Like. So when they came
up to me, I mean their elevator speech was great, right, Um,
(21:11):
in the beginning, it wasn't. And I was walking as
they were talking to me because they were like, oh,
you can make a million dollars and twenty years. I'm like,
I want to make a million dollars now. I don't
want to wait twenty years. You know, Oh, this is
a great pension. I'm like, I'm in my twenties. I'm
not really thinking about pension, even though people in your twenties,
you should think about pension in your twenties. And so
(21:32):
it wasn't really appealing to me and the and the
money that they were making. I was making more money
working at a real estate company. But what pique my
interest was that, well, you know, it's not a lot
of women and it's not a lot of African Americans
on the job, so this would be a great opportunity
for you to be a part of it. That's what
kind of left me intrigued, because I was like, everybody
loves firefighters, right, like everybody thinks that's the greatest profession
(21:57):
in the world. But why isn't it that women aren't there?
And why is it their blacks aren't there. So that's
what made me like fill out the paper and say, okay,
well let me see what this is about. Then I
was groomed by the United Women Firefighters Association and the
Votal Society. And if it was not for them mentoring me,
(22:18):
and I mean, because I've never had a job where
people will call your house to make sure that you
took the tests that you studied, They trained you physically,
they kept telling you how much. They wanted you. They
were like, what are you doing, Come to the firehouse,
Come see what it's like. So they were trying to
bring me into this family and it was just an
(22:40):
amazing thing for me to experience. And the Vulcan Society
is a very esteemed organization for black and brown firefighters. Right. Yes,
the society is eighty two years old and it was
start by forty one firefighters. But the main person who
tried to get a everybody organized was Chief Wesley Williams.
(23:03):
When he came on the job, they had black beds,
were only the black firefighters because sleep in his bed
and it was mainly near the bathrooms. They had black forks, knives, plates,
and spoons, and it was such um separation that he
felt that this was unjust for all other blacks coming
on the job. So him and forty one other firefighters
(23:24):
later on in the years formulated the Vocal Society, which
is the reason why I'm here today. I know that
representation has continued to slowly increase, but still I think
it's fair to say, Regina that women firefighters are still
um small and numbered. So what was it like for
(23:45):
you joining the department as a woman of color. So
coming into the academy, I was the only woman there.
It was over three hundred candidates coming on and it
was seven black people. So to come from a culture
of being surrounded by like minded people that look like you,
(24:07):
and then to come to a culture where I can't
even find estrogen in the room like it was, it
was difficult. Um. I remember crying a lot. I remember
going into my bathroom and put in prayer scriptures on
the on the glass that I can be able to
see every day how God would be inspiring me to
(24:29):
keep going forward. But I'm glad that I was brought
through that journey because I was the first African American
woman hired in fifteen years since the Brenda Berkman days,
my idol, so since the lawsuit, I was the first
black woman hired in fifteen years. So the weight of
that was already on my shoulders. But I knew that
(24:50):
it needed to be done. And you reference Brenda Berkman,
who might also know who had the guts to sue
the fire department because of the way women and people
of color were discriminated against. You know, you did stick
it out, and I think about all that you and
(25:11):
your fellow firefighters and so many others gave and displayed
on September eleventh, two thousand and one. Can you talk
me through what that day was like for you and
how did you even learn something had happened of such
a terrible magnitude. I actually was working the night before
(25:33):
and I got hired for the day tour. So I
went into the house watch and that's the area where
you come and like check in. But um, I actually
got assigned to work in the truck. So I was
working across the floor in Latta one oh five. So
when I was checking a sheet, um, one of my
co workers, John Chapora, he saw him. He was like, hey, Reginea,
(25:54):
I see that you're working in the truck today. Do
you mind if I work in the truck? And I
was like no, like I'm working over time, like I'm
I'm getting extra money. I don't care where I work.
But I knew that he had his paper in for
the truck, and so I was like, no, go ahead,
you know, not a problem. You know, I know you
want to transfer over to go to the truck, so
get some truck experience, and I don't mind. So then
(26:16):
as I was starting to check the rig. I was
hearing the guys in the kitchen yelling, and I was like, oh,
oh my god, and I was like, what are they watching?
Like this is crazy, and I thought it was like
a television show, but then I knew that it wasn't
because I started to hear the news broadcaster speaking and
(26:36):
then I saw like the signature line underneath that a
plane crashed into the building. And so we were just
trying to wrap our minds around this tragedy. And then
you were kind of like talking to each other and
then the tone alarms go off and they called for
the truck to respond to the trade center. So we
(26:56):
tried to help them, you know, get extra tools to
put on the truck, and then one on five left,
so we just waited. We just watched the TV and
was seeing everything that was going on, and then I
think it was probably about an hour. We got a
call for a suspicious package after that, and as we
were going to the suspisige package run, they took us
(27:17):
off that call and then we went into the battery
tunnel and started to proceed to go into the chaos,
which was not eleven. So as you're on the truck
on the rig, heading towards the World Trade Center. What
did you see? What was your impression? Initially, as you responded,
(27:39):
as we were going through the Brooklyn Battery tunnel, this
large gush of wind came and it shook the engine.
It shook the engine so violently we had to stop.
I knew something was wrong because the engine holes five
gallons of water. How were you shaking five gallons of water?
But as we went forward, we saw this smoke, this
(28:02):
white smoke that looked like a blizzard. But then all
of these people started walking towards us that like looked
like zombies, and they had all this white dust on them,
and that was because the building fell. They were coming
and walking towards our way. And I remember there was
a woman that was asthmatic, and I had to try
and take water and put it all over her face.
(28:22):
But there was nothing that I could do for her.
So we we pulled the rig up down Water Street
and then we started to walk towards the buildings. But
as we were walking towards the buildings, I remember on
my radio hearing we're under attack, We're under attack, and
then I heard like this swooping sound. My boss said, run, run, run,
(28:47):
so we ran back towards the engine, and when I
turned around to look at what was happening, there was
this big black smoke that was following us from that point.
I put on my mask real quick, and then I
remember this smoke just covered all of us, and I
was just sitting there thinking like, oh my god, what's
(29:09):
gonna happen. What's gonna happen to me? I didn't know
what was going on. And then I saw that the
smoke was starting to pass, and so I said, okay,
I made it out of that. And so our officer
grabbed us up again and we started to proceed forward
with the with the vehicle, but we couldn't move anymore
because a lot of the vehicles were abandoned. As we
(29:31):
were walking, we just seen all of these cars on fires.
We saw buildings on fires. The hydrants weren't working, so
we had to collect holes from all of the abandoned
engines and draft the water from the river. It was
a crazy day to think out of the box and
(29:51):
figure out how to deal with the situations and what
happened to that first truck and with the firefighter who said, hey,
will you switch with me so I can get on
that truck. Yeah, everyone in Lot one oh five died
that day and John's body was never found. They have
(30:14):
a picture of one oh five going across the Brooklyn
Bridge as the Trade Center was on fire. So knowing
and seeing the sacrifices of people going to that building,
not knowing how or what they were getting themselves into.
Um they still went, you know. And UM watching some
(30:37):
of these specials and you're seeing the firefighters walk in
the lobby of the building, knowing with fate they were
going to meet. It's just devastating. I remember making a
phone call when I got on the scene. I called
my nephew's grandmother because her number is the only one
I can remember, to tell them to let my family
(30:59):
know that I'm okay right now, and if anything happened
to me, just tell them I died, loving what I'm doing,
and for them not to worry about me. And then
I remember when I hung up the phone, I was
resolved and like a piece and a calmness came over me.
And then after that point, I just got to work
(31:19):
and I just needed to work until I couldn't work anymore.
And that's what you did. Absolutely. Do you remember when
you finally left the scene. Yes, I I left and
we got back about eleven thirty midnight to the firehouse.
And this is why I love people and why I
(31:43):
love doing my job, because when we got back to
the firehouse, all of the neighbors. When in the firehouse,
they brought us food, They gave us hugs, a change
of clothes if we needed it. You know, they were
giving me bobby pins and brushing my hair, and they
just wanted to take care of us, you know. And
(32:04):
to know that people love you as much as you
love them, like it made all the difference in the
world to me, and it made me really want to
keep going back and keep serving the public. And like
I get emotional just thinking about it, because when people
don't feel loved, I don't understand it. When you have
(32:26):
e M t s and police officers and firefighters who
don't know you right and they want to rest their
life to save you. And it's weird because some of
these people hold these weird views of religion and people's
races and color, and it's crazy on the fireside that
(32:46):
they would have such disagreements about women and people of color,
but they would go and sacrifice their lives to go
and save one. So I just wish like the craziness
of the thought of Hay would just leave people's minds
and just everybody just love each other, because there's so
much more fulfilling to love people then say it is.
(33:10):
It's and it's empowering and it's energizing and it makes
for a better life. Absolutely. You know, I will never
forget going to Ground zero the day after, and the
air was so thick and acrid, and you literally could
see everything from the collapsed buildings filling the air and
(33:34):
by extension, filling your lungs, and you know, I I
was told to wear a face mask, and it was
immediately clear to me that despite what was being claimed, Uh,
the air was not safe to breathe. And part of
my work then going forward for years as a senator
was to try to focus on the health impact for
(33:57):
survivors and first responders, workers and residents. Did you suffer
any health complications following your work at Ground Zero? Uh?
The only thing that I've experienced is like nasal drip,
you know. But what I'm concerned about is, even though
it's the twenty anniversary, like I still don't know what
(34:20):
could possibly go on with my body, and the fact
that there's so few studies on women in the fire
service and the effect that cancers or fires have to
our bodies, you know, figuring out what happens with us
giving birth or our uteruses or anything like that, Like
they're so afraid to touch that. That is definitely a
(34:43):
big concerned amone, especially being in the ceremonial unit and
having to attend the depths of people World Trade Center
related illnesses and how we're probably going to meet and
surpass the number of firefighters that died on the day
of September eleven with the number of people that die
from Wheelchace Center related illnesses. You said earlier that this
(35:06):
is a week of lots of reminders because we are
approaching the twenty anniversary of nine eleven. Does this year
anniversary feel different compared to the previous years that we've
all gone through. Yeah, it definitely does, because there's a
(35:26):
lot more going on and happening ceremonies across the city.
But I just think it's good and bad. Right. It's
good because you know, I'm started to see some of
the families coming out, Some of the firefighters sons are
now firefighters on a job and getting together every year
(35:50):
is always a blessing for me to be able to
see the people that I used to work with that
may no longer be on the job, or their families
or the kids of the members. That is always something
that I hold dear. But it's always a time that
brings you back and sobers you up in it. To me,
it's just a gloomy day, but um as a city,
(36:12):
we gather together and deal with it. That's why I'm
so proud of my city. Right. You know, we're remembering
a very terrible time twenty years ago. But the best
way to be a living rebuke to what happened on
nine eleven is to serve others, to love others, to
(36:34):
reach out and lift up others. And that's what you've done.
You've done that over those twenty two years. You will
continue to do that. Thank you so very much for
everything you are doing and will continue to do. I'm
very grateful. Well, thank you too. It's been an honor
and a blessing to talk to you, and I'm so
excited to be able to be here and have this conversation.
(36:56):
It's a dream for me, So I thank you so much.
Regina tells me that, along with all the other things
on her plate, she is thinking of running for office
sometime in the future. I mentioned at the beginning of
my conversation with Regina that she has a beautiful singing voice,
(37:18):
but don't take my word for it. Here she is
three years ago, on the anniversary of nine eleven, performing
God Bless America at a Mets game to the Shaw
Why Bless so may call by sweet by co Bye.
(38:09):
My final guest today is Jay Winnick. Jay was also
my guest at the State of the Union address in
two thousand and eight when I was still the Senator
from New York. Jay lost his brother Glenn on nine eleven,
and when Jay and some friends came up with the
idea of a nine eleven Day of service, I supported
(38:30):
their effort, both as a Senator but really as a
fellow American. Jay is a public relations professional, but he's
dedicated the past twenty years to trying to make something
good and positive come out of all the pain and
loss and grief that his family and so many other
(38:51):
families experienced after nine eleven. You know, Jay, it's been
a great gift for me to be able to follow
and support the work that you've done over the last
two decades. You took the tragedy of the loss of
your brother and turned it into an opportunity for people
(39:14):
to give back and to be of service. Could you,
first of all talk a little bit about your brother
and describe his heroic efforts on that day. Yes, thank you.
As you well know, Glenn was a partner at the
law firm Holland to Night. Their offices were located at
(39:35):
the Broadway Building, which was situated just a couple of
blocks from the Trade Center. Glenn for twenty years was
a volunteer firefighter in our hometown on Long Island, and
he had first time served as the fire commissioner in
that fire district. He was specially certified in building collaps
rescue training. That morning, Glenn was in his apartment when
(39:58):
the first plane hit. He raced downtown. He helped evacuate
the Holland the Night law offices, and then borrowed a
first responder medic beg from responders on the scene and
his building, and he raced into the South tower on
foot to save lives and perished when the South tower collapsed.
His partial remains were recovered March two thousand two, surgical
(40:22):
gloves on his hands, stethoscope on his person, medic beg
by his side, in likely what had been the lobby
area of the South Tower. That's as best we know
about his actions that morning. I know what a tremendous
loss that was to you and your family, and I
(40:44):
also know many family members were so devastated by their
loss and their grief that it took a long time
for them to gain their footing again at all. But
it wasn't too long after you found Glenn and you
began to think about, how do you make something good,
(41:06):
something positive out of this terrible catastrophe. How did that
thinking evolve for you? J Well. A good friend and
colleague named David Payne, who lived three thousand miles away
in California but was a New Yorker, originally called me
soon after the attacks. Here he was this New Yorker
(41:28):
in California, witnessing what was happening in New York, but
really witnessing what was happening all over the country, people
stepping forward with acts of kindness to do whatever they
could in the aftermath at the attacks. And David called me,
and he said look, you're the only nine eleven family member.
I know I feel terrible about your brother, but I
have this idea about trying to create a ritual in
(41:49):
this country where each nine eleven people do good deeds.
And I thought, you know, that really makes sense to me.
Glenn was somebody who lived his life in service and
died in so of us. When David first called me,
my family was still reeling, as so many families as
you well know where. I said to David, let me
think about your idea. I have a lot on my
(42:11):
plate right now. I'll get back with you. And I
did you know some weeks later and I said, you
know what, I'm ready. Let's do this. Let's see what
we can get going here. We had no staff, we
had no budget, we had no plan. But you know,
we were a couple of public relations professionals. We knew
how to get the word out and it was important
to both of us to try and make something good happen.
(42:34):
From this day, we felt like if in the future
people only learned about the attacks and they did not
have a good understanding about the way the world came together,
focusing on our common humanity, embracing our differences, then we
will have lost an opportunity. And so one of the
(42:55):
first things we did was we arranged to meet with
the leaders of all the different nine eleven organizations and
trying to get a sense from them did they feel
like this was a good idea to create a day
of service in honor of those who perished or who
were injured. And universally everybody we spoke with within nine
(43:16):
eleven community was receptive to it, and they thought, yes,
as difficult as things are right now, this is a
good path forward for the future as it relates to
nine eleven. And so we were often running and here
we are twenty years later, still at it. And so
this initiative, with the help of so many people, including yourself,
has grown into the nation's largest annual day of charitable engagement.
(43:39):
Between twenty and thirty million people a year marked the
day by doing good deeds for others. And that is
such a great tribute to your leadership and really to
the mission. Have you found that by talking about Glenn
and the loss that represented to you and your family
and linking that to service, that you're able to help
(44:02):
people who also have suffered loss and are looking for
some kind of positive path forward. Yes, you know. On
one hand, I have a front row see because of
the work I do in this initiative to see the
most amazing outpouring of generosity by people who participate. On
the other hand, I also hear from a lot of people,
(44:23):
and meet with a lot of people and speak a
lot of people who have also suffered loss, and they
express great appreciation that something like this observance exists. We
have a board member who was a nine eleven family
member who lost her husband, and she says this observance
now gives her a safe and positive place to be
(44:44):
on nine eleven. But it's not just about people who
are affected by nine eleven. You know, as we all know,
people suffer great tragedy in their life. But if if
this observance also gives them hope, then we have accomplished something.
And I know that we have because I hear from
them all the time. As we approached the twentieth anniversary,
(45:05):
I don't know about you, but it seems a little surreal.
It felt like it happened yesterday. But I meet young
adults all the time who weren't born then don't fully
grasp the impact that it had on those of us
who experienced it. So what are your specific plans for
this year and how do you intend to try to
(45:27):
reach out, educate and involve young people as well well.
We have a number of plans in place. As you
might imagine, I mean a major milestone. We are again
staging large scale meal packs and cities all over the
country where thousands and thousands of volunteers come together and
they packed nonperishable, dry good meals that are then donated
(45:51):
through Feeding American food banks in those cities. We're partnering
with World Central Kitchen again as we did last year.
I love them, raising the money to purchase meals from
independently owned restaurants and cities around the country, restaurants that
have really been hit hard by the pandemic, so it
helps them, and then those ready to go meals are
(46:13):
donated to healthcare workers and first responders. There's a way
to say thank you for doing what you do to
be on the front line to keep us safe. We
have an education program in the schools UH and we
provide free lesson plans downloadable lesson plans on our website
for teachers to use so they can engage students. Nine
eleven day dot org and there they will find opportunities
(46:36):
to volunteer in so many different ways. We're launching a
national ps A campaign that is very unusual in that
we've brought together more than twenty people from a cross
section of the nine eleven community to together deliver a
message that we are stronger together than we are divided. Yes,
(46:59):
and as you know, well, Secretary Clinton, nine eleven did
affect just Republicans, just Democrats, just people on the East Coast.
It affected everybody. That's right. We were all Americans, and
we were a global community to you know. Of course,
people from more than ninety countries perished on nine eleven,
and the world responded together. So when we think about
(47:22):
the things that typically divide us, you know, all of
that pales in comparison to what happens when we come
together to tackle challenges. And as you reference earlier, we
need that so much. I feel like saying amen, thank
you for that. No, seriously, it it is the message
we are stronger together. We have to start taking care
(47:44):
of each other. We do need to learn more emphathy,
practice more kindness and service. And some people I know
might hear us talking, oh wow, you know so Pollyannish,
so they have no idea how life changing it is
to actually serve somebody else. I mean, that's the great lesson.
(48:06):
You can lift yourself out of grief and loss and
even anger and confusion by going out and helping somebody else.
That's the beauty, that's the real message of everything you've
been doing for twenty years. Well, you articulated it very well.
I can't thank you enough. J. You know, losing your
(48:29):
brother Glenn as he ran toward helping people and then
was lost in the collapse of the South Tower was
such a devastating experience for your entire family. And the
way that you have summoned the best of us, called
us to service, called us to kindness. It's one of
(48:51):
the lasting legacies of not eleven and I am incredibly
grateful for your leadership and your example. Thank you, my friend, Well,
I thank you. As Jay mentioned, you can find out
more about the September eleventh National Day of Service and
Remembrance and how you can get involved at nine eleven
(49:16):
day dot org. As we mark this milestone twenty anniversary,
I'll be thinking about Debbie, Regina, Jay and the countless
other people I've met who were directly impacted by nine eleven.
I'll also be thinking about our country and the challenges
(49:38):
we've overcome, as well as the ones that still lie ahead.
And I'll be thinking about how this terrible tragedy inspired
incredible acts of heroism and service, giving rise to a
remarkable moment of national unity. Oh. I so hope that
(49:59):
as we mark twenty years since nine eleven, we will
be reminded to carry some of that same spirit of
unity with us as we moved together into the future.
You and Me Both is brought to you by I
(50:20):
Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran, Kathleen Russo and
Rob Russo. No relation, but they're both terrific and with
help from Juma Aberdeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Bree Henshaw,
Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, and Lona Velmorrow. Our engineer is
(50:40):
Zack McNeice, and the original music is by Forrest Gray.
Thank you for joining me for this special episode. I
wish you and your loved ones all the best, and
I can't wait to come back to our weekly schedule
starting in twenty two
You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. Hi.
I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is a special episode of
You and Me Both. September eleven has come to be
about a lot of things over the years, counter terrorism, war,
economic and physical recovery, and of course remembering. But for me,
(00:25):
the anniversary is always first and foremost about the victims, survivors,
first responders, and their families. It's about the people who
lived through this devastating tragedy, the pain, loss, health challenges,
and emotional trauma they've experienced, but also the remarkable strength
(00:50):
and resilience they've displayed. As a Senator for New York
on that day and in the aftermath, I joined in
witnessing the devastation at the World Trade Center in New York,
at the Pentagon in our nation's capital, and at Shanksville, Pennsylvania,
(01:10):
and I was deeply involved in the response and recovery
efforts that followed. Today, I want again to focus on
those impacted directly by September eleven, to listen to their
stories twenty years later, and to talk with them about
how they've rebuilt their own lives. So I'm speaking with
(01:34):
Regina Wilson, a twenty two year veteran with the Fire
Department of the City of New York. She's one of
the few black female firefighters among the ranks and was
on the scene that day and at Ground zero in
the aftermath alongside her fellow first responders. I'll also be
(01:54):
talking with Jay Winnick, who lost his brother Glenn in
the World Trade Center and then went on to create
the nine eleven Day of Service in Glenn's memory. But first,
I am delighted to be reconnecting with Debbie st. John.
Debbie is one of the most heroic women I know.
(02:17):
On her way to work that beautiful September Tuesday morning,
Debbie was struck by falling debris from the second airplane
when it hit the World Trade Center. Her legs were crushed,
she lost consciousness, and she was admitted to New York
University Downtown Hospital as Jane Doe Number one. Nobody even
(02:41):
knew who she was. I visited with Debbie in the
hospital days after nine eleven, and then we kept in
touch over the years as her recovery from countless success
of surgeries and rigorous physical therapy turned into a year's
long battle with opioid dependency. Through it all, Debbie remains
(03:06):
one of the most determined and optimistic people I've ever met,
and I was so happy that she could join me
for this episode. I cannot tell you how happy I
am to talk with you. I have to start by asking,
how are you feeling as the twentieth anniversary of September
(03:27):
eleven approaches. I think about you so often, and I
would bet this is a particularly challenging time for you.
You know, It's interesting because as much as I'm so
related to nine eleven, I'm not really emotionally attached to it,
because the only bit of nine eleven that's really real
(03:51):
in a sense to me is the visual of the
second plane hitting the building that I saw and then
thinking to run. That's my largest memory of all unleven,
including the hospital. So I didn't think the twentieth anniversary mattered,
But I'm finding I'm a bit more attached, and it's
(04:11):
affecting me emotionally more than I thought, probably because I'm
talking about it more than I've ever talked about I
bet that's right. You have shared with me and others.
I know what happened to you on September eleven. You
were on your way to work at the World Financial
Center when that second plane hit and then you were
hit by falling debris that left you severely injured. I
(04:37):
wanted to ask you to, you know, just reflect about
what you do remember and about your recovery from that day. Wow.
For me, most of my story is from what people
told me. Um. I just turned thirty years old on
June one. I truly believed, without a shadow of a doubt,
it was going to be the best year of my life.
(05:00):
I had worked my butt off to be professionally where
I wanted to be, educationally where I wanted to be,
and the last probably five years before nine eleven, really
worked on myself emotionally, you know, to be the happiest
and most hopeful, positive person I could be. And I
woke up that morning and I woke up Greg, my fiance,
(05:20):
and I showed him I was wearing the shirt that
he bought me for my birthday, and I went to
the subway, the one in the nine, to go to
World Trade. The plane must have hit while we were
probably still in the subway car, because by the time
we got up to the stairs, the doors opened and
they were big guys with big um I remember the
(05:42):
shirts I think they were Navy with yellow writing with
w TC on them. But they said, we're going to
take you to safety. We walk out, and then I
remember looking up seeing the second well I didn't know
it was the second, but seeing a plane hit the
World Trade Center, someone yelled, run for cover. I saw
(06:03):
a construction awning, which is probably not the best thing
to run for cover over, but it was the only
thing I can find. And my last thought was I
have the worst shoes on for running. I thought it
was like my fault for wearing those shoes. And Greg,
it said to me, if you would run a second
slower or a second fest or you might not be alive.
(06:24):
That's why I remember. And Greg was then your fiance,
now your husband my husband? Yes, And the rescuers literally
picked you up off the sidewalk, and I guess rushed you,
carried you to the hospital as far as you remember,
Is that right. So there's four men who helped save me,
Paul Stefen, Orlando and Frank Orlando and Frank were the
(06:48):
a m T. S. Stefan saw the first plane hit.
He was I think a medic or helped out in
that capacity. So he decided to go head down to
the Wall Trade Center and CYA he could help, so,
he said he noticed me as soon as I hit
the street. He saw when the second plane hit, and
(07:09):
he saw me look scared. He saw me run, and
we were running together. I believe, he said. I was
on the left side of him, and he kept track
of me, someone he never met before or I knew
anything about. And um, he saw a huge it looked
like a propeller. I'm assuming this was part of the
landing gear coming towards us, and he thought we were
(07:30):
going to die. And the next thing he knows, I'm
thrown back. The propeller goes two feet into like a
cement wall, and he's feet away from me. I never
thought about what it must have been like after the
plane hit. You know, it's like a war zone. It's
like the apocalypse happening, burning pieces. I never thought of
(07:51):
any of that. I never really knew that he saw
all this and he chose to go run to death.
Pretty much for a stranger, it's nice to know that
there's kindness in really bad times, and that you know,
people really try to be there for each other, even
(08:12):
though it doesn't really look like it right now. I
mean That is one of the lasting lessons for me
is at that time, people did come together, They did
help each other, They tried to do whatever they could
in the moment of such crisis and tragedy. Your journey
is so incredible because you were severely injured. My butt
(08:39):
was literally on the road next to me, sliced off.
I mean when I visited you in the hospital, the
doctors and this was just a day or two after
nine eleven, you know, we're just amazed that you were
still going, given the devastation of the injuries that you suffered.
And I remember going to see you. I heard that,
(09:02):
you know, there there were people who had been injured.
And I remember walking into your hospital room, Debbie, and
you had these beautiful braids you had. Your hair was
in braids. The nurse ran up ten minutes before you
got here. For those reasons, I'll tell you. In the building,
I'll tell you you looked at gelic even though you
(09:24):
were devastatingly injured. You were so brave, Debbie. I remember
when I first saw your determination in action, when you
told me you were going to dance at your wedding.
This this young woman lying in this hospital bed, who
(09:46):
many many people thought would never walk again, let alone
dance again five or survived. Let's be honest, uh telling
me I am going to dance at my wedding. And
you know what, I can attest to that because I
came to your wedding. I watched you walk down the
(10:06):
aisle and myself and have that first dance. That determination,
your absolute tenacity in the face of the worst kind
of trauma. I just was so inspiring. Can you talk
about that moment and what made it such a milestone. Well,
(10:27):
first of all, you have to think about what I've
been going through is eighteen months in the hospital and
then the next three years, every three months I had
a surgery. Yeah, so the year of the wedding, I
took the year off to get healthy, and it was
like kind of being an athlete for it. I trained
for it, I was working out, I was doing physical therapy.
(10:50):
I was doing everything I could. Thank God, at that point,
I wasn't sick on the opioids. Although I was sick.
I did throw up for two hours in the middle
of my wedding, and no one knew. I did not
know that. But um, I feel like in many ways
I was born this way. And I had a very
difficult childhood. I had to be a warrior to get
(11:13):
through my childhood. I also believe my gift to the
world is that a model healing. Yes, you do. I'm
wondering whether, as you think about the last twenty years,
is there some lesson that you would like other people
to take from, not just nine eleven, but from what
(11:34):
you've gone through. Well, you know, since I've figured out
about opioids, and less opioids mean less pain. And everyone
in the country talks about opioid addiction, but no one
talks about opioid dependency, which is millions of people. That's true,
and that's me. I'm the face of opioid dependency. Well,
(11:55):
you were in agony, and you were in pain for
so many years, and then I also had something called
opioid induced hyper algees yet, which is very common and
every payment mint doctor knows about it, but they don't
talk about it. And that's anyone who's on opioids for
an extended period of time, and that could be a week.
The opioids mess your nervous system and your brain up
(12:15):
so much that your body goes on the defense and
it causes all the pain. I was living on a
hundred milligrams and Methodona day. My level of pain from
one to ten was an eight to eleven. Seriously, and
I'm completely off of Methodona. I'd say I'm before on
(12:35):
once ten, I don't really have chronic pain. When you
think about your own journey and all of the challenges,
what do you want people to know about recovering from
trauma and in the case of so many recovering from
opioid dependence, what words of hope encouragement that helped you
(12:58):
that you can share. Well, I'll be Over the years,
when anyone we know has gone through a major tragedy,
I usually get a phone call M and um. The
last one, which was a long time ago, was UM,
my husband's best friend's wife lost the baby at eight
a half months. Oh God. And she called me up
and she said, what do I do when I feel
(13:21):
like my world is ending and I'm in all this pain?
How do I go on? And I've been asked that
a lot, And it's when life is so bad and
all you're doing is suffering. You have to find the
moments to hold onto and you have to give yourself goals.
(13:44):
I mean, for me, a lot of times, my only
goal is to get out of bed. M hm. You
have to make really really small goals, but you must
have goals, and once you achieve your goal, you must
celebrate your successes. So what is next for you? I mean,
now you're focused on your recovery from opioid dependence. What
(14:11):
else is motivating you. My twin girls turned ten this
past April, and it was the first time we went
on a family vacation because I was well enough. I
was at Universal Studios. Me who can't even like do
three hours of work sometimes from ten thirty in the
morning until six pm at night. It was so much fun.
(14:33):
You forget like I was always a big ride fan before,
but you know, I got no butt, like you think,
can I do these things? And truly just feeling that
elation and excitement and fear and all that that comes
to the ride. It made me remember the joy of things,
you know like that. So for me, like the girls,
(14:56):
are you talking about it? What our next trip is?
And I think it or not. I think it's gonna
be to Washington, d C. In the spring. Excellent. I've
never been to the White House. I think it'd be
really cool for them to see that. I would love
for you to see that me too, you know. And
the other thing that I really want to do is,
you know, our country is and I want to talk
(15:16):
a pandemic. We are in an opio epidemic and the
world as well, but no one talks about the millions
of us behind closed doors suffering with our families watching
us on opioid dependency. So for me, the biggest thing
that I want to do in any way possible is
to save people from the twenty years of opioid dependency
(15:39):
that I had to live through because not eleven might
have changed my life drastically in a moment, but opioids
is what's stopped it for twenty years. And I really
feel like if the message gets out that people really
understand that the opioids is what's causing your pain and
making you feel worse, I really feel that that can
(15:59):
change the true factory of this epidemic and of addiction independency.
Your courage is inspiring and will get people to pay attention. Debbie.
I hope so, and I can't wait to see what
the next time in twenty years means to you and
your family. God bless you. I'm excited, take care, Thank
(16:19):
you so much. After twenty years spent rebuilding her life,
Debbie is now starting to publicly share her story. She's
currently writing a book about surviving nine eleven and then
overcoming opioid dependency. Knowing Debbie, I know it's going to
(16:43):
be a terrific read. Regina Wilson was only a few
years into her career as a New York City firefighter
when the attacks of September eleventh took place. She was
also then and now one of the very few women,
let alone women of color in the department. But that morning,
(17:05):
she was just starting the second of two back to
back shifts at her station in Brooklyn when the news
broke and the firehouse alarm sounded, and so she, like
so many other first responders, ran toward danger. She got
on the truck, she made her way to Lower Manhattan
with her fellow firefighters. She assisted in the immediate rescue
(17:28):
efforts that day and then the arduous search and recovery
mission in the months that followed. I was so honored
that Regina shared her story with me, and I am
so pleased to share that story with you. Welcome to
the show, Regina, Thank you. I am thrilled to see you.
(17:50):
We won't be able to convey to everyone listening to
this podcast everything special about you, particularly your extraordinary singing voice,
which I've had the privilege of hearing uh several times.
But it's great to be with you, and I just
want to start by checking in how are you doing,
How did you get through the pandemic? How are you
(18:13):
facing all of the weather and related challenges that we
now confront Well, first, I want to start off us
saying it's such an honor to be on your podcast.
I mean, I've loved you since. Hopefully you remember the
time that we got stuck in California. It was a
group of women and you were able to get us
back home. The airline we flew all went out of business.
(18:35):
I was like, how does that happen? And so you
came and saved the day and got us home, and
just to see how much compassion and care you have
for all of us and wanted to make sure we
got home safely. From then, I've I've always been a
champion of yours and I will continue to be. But
on this side, um, it's been a difficult two years,
(18:57):
especially adjusting to so much to death going on in
the city, and how we had to shift a lot
of gears and be creative with how we were going
to help the citizens of New York, and then just
the looming thought of this disease that may ravish us
and our family. It was very difficult time. I am
(19:19):
grateful to guy that I definitely made it through and
my family did. But it's just a hard toll to
bear to see that your neighbors and you know, the
person that you always greeted at the store or you
know at the car wash or the gas station is
no longer there, and to see how just hard it
hurt this city. But I'm doing well right now. It's
(19:41):
just it's just a really busy time, and this week
is it's tolling enough. But it's just a really hard time.
I totally understand that because you have been on the
front lines for more than twenty years now, so much
that has happened in the city, and be before we
jump right into your experiences on nine eleven, I wanted
(20:05):
to ask you a little bit about your history and
your life before that day. What made you decide to
become a firefighter. Had you ever known any firefighters or
have any role models. Absolutely not. It was nowhere in
my radar. Nothing I've ever thought about doing. When I
(20:26):
went to school, I wanted to come out and be
in corporate America. Right, that's when you come out of college.
Most of the times, you know, you want to get
into different fields. But it's never, um think about blue
collar how to really get in touch with the neighborhood.
You want to try and move outside of it. So, um,
I actually was at an expo at Jacob Javis Center
(20:50):
because I went there to look for clothes in the
latest styles and what was going on in black culture.
So when I was stopped by these firefighters, you know,
I didn't really pay them any mind. I'm like, I'm
like here to get bags. Like. So when they came
up to me, I mean their elevator speech was great, right, Um,
(21:11):
in the beginning, it wasn't. And I was walking as
they were talking to me because they were like, oh,
you can make a million dollars and twenty years. I'm like,
I want to make a million dollars now. I don't
want to wait twenty years. You know, Oh, this is
a great pension. I'm like, I'm in my twenties. I'm
not really thinking about pension, even though people in your twenties,
you should think about pension in your twenties. And so
(21:32):
it wasn't really appealing to me and the and the
money that they were making. I was making more money
working at a real estate company. But what pique my
interest was that, well, you know, it's not a lot
of women and it's not a lot of African Americans
on the job, so this would be a great opportunity
for you to be a part of it. That's what
kind of left me intrigued, because I was like, everybody
loves firefighters, right, like everybody thinks that's the greatest profession
(21:57):
in the world. But why isn't it that women aren't there?
And why is it their blacks aren't there. So that's
what made me like fill out the paper and say, okay,
well let me see what this is about. Then I
was groomed by the United Women Firefighters Association and the
Votal Society. And if it was not for them mentoring me,
(22:18):
and I mean, because I've never had a job where
people will call your house to make sure that you
took the tests that you studied, They trained you physically,
they kept telling you how much. They wanted you. They
were like, what are you doing, Come to the firehouse,
Come see what it's like. So they were trying to
bring me into this family and it was just an
(22:40):
amazing thing for me to experience. And the Vulcan Society
is a very esteemed organization for black and brown firefighters. Right. Yes,
the society is eighty two years old and it was
start by forty one firefighters. But the main person who
tried to get a everybody organized was Chief Wesley Williams.
(23:03):
When he came on the job, they had black beds,
were only the black firefighters because sleep in his bed
and it was mainly near the bathrooms. They had black forks, knives, plates,
and spoons, and it was such um separation that he
felt that this was unjust for all other blacks coming
on the job. So him and forty one other firefighters
(23:24):
later on in the years formulated the Vocal Society, which
is the reason why I'm here today. I know that
representation has continued to slowly increase, but still I think
it's fair to say, Regina that women firefighters are still
um small and numbered. So what was it like for
(23:45):
you joining the department as a woman of color. So
coming into the academy, I was the only woman there.
It was over three hundred candidates coming on and it
was seven black people. So to come from a culture
of being surrounded by like minded people that look like you,
(24:07):
and then to come to a culture where I can't
even find estrogen in the room like it was, it
was difficult. Um. I remember crying a lot. I remember
going into my bathroom and put in prayer scriptures on
the on the glass that I can be able to
see every day how God would be inspiring me to
(24:29):
keep going forward. But I'm glad that I was brought
through that journey because I was the first African American
woman hired in fifteen years since the Brenda Berkman days,
my idol, so since the lawsuit, I was the first
black woman hired in fifteen years. So the weight of
that was already on my shoulders. But I knew that
(24:50):
it needed to be done. And you reference Brenda Berkman,
who might also know who had the guts to sue
the fire department because of the way women and people
of color were discriminated against. You know, you did stick
it out, and I think about all that you and
(25:11):
your fellow firefighters and so many others gave and displayed
on September eleventh, two thousand and one. Can you talk
me through what that day was like for you and
how did you even learn something had happened of such
a terrible magnitude. I actually was working the night before
(25:33):
and I got hired for the day tour. So I
went into the house watch and that's the area where
you come and like check in. But um, I actually
got assigned to work in the truck. So I was
working across the floor in Latta one oh five. So
when I was checking a sheet, um, one of my
co workers, John Chapora, he saw him. He was like, hey, Reginea,
(25:54):
I see that you're working in the truck today. Do
you mind if I work in the truck? And I
was like no, like I'm working over time, like I'm
I'm getting extra money. I don't care where I work.
But I knew that he had his paper in for
the truck, and so I was like, no, go ahead,
you know, not a problem. You know, I know you
want to transfer over to go to the truck, so
get some truck experience, and I don't mind. So then
(26:16):
as I was starting to check the rig. I was
hearing the guys in the kitchen yelling, and I was like, oh,
oh my god, and I was like, what are they watching?
Like this is crazy, and I thought it was like
a television show, but then I knew that it wasn't
because I started to hear the news broadcaster speaking and
(26:36):
then I saw like the signature line underneath that a
plane crashed into the building. And so we were just
trying to wrap our minds around this tragedy. And then
you were kind of like talking to each other and
then the tone alarms go off and they called for
the truck to respond to the trade center. So we
(26:56):
tried to help them, you know, get extra tools to
put on the truck, and then one on five left,
so we just waited. We just watched the TV and
was seeing everything that was going on, and then I
think it was probably about an hour. We got a
call for a suspicious package after that, and as we
were going to the suspisige package run, they took us
(27:17):
off that call and then we went into the battery
tunnel and started to proceed to go into the chaos,
which was not eleven. So as you're on the truck
on the rig, heading towards the World Trade Center. What
did you see? What was your impression? Initially, as you responded,
(27:39):
as we were going through the Brooklyn Battery tunnel, this
large gush of wind came and it shook the engine.
It shook the engine so violently we had to stop.
I knew something was wrong because the engine holes five
gallons of water. How were you shaking five gallons of water?
But as we went forward, we saw this smoke, this
(28:02):
white smoke that looked like a blizzard. But then all
of these people started walking towards us that like looked
like zombies, and they had all this white dust on them,
and that was because the building fell. They were coming
and walking towards our way. And I remember there was
a woman that was asthmatic, and I had to try
and take water and put it all over her face.
(28:22):
But there was nothing that I could do for her.
So we we pulled the rig up down Water Street
and then we started to walk towards the buildings. But
as we were walking towards the buildings, I remember on
my radio hearing we're under attack, We're under attack, and
then I heard like this swooping sound. My boss said, run, run, run,
(28:47):
so we ran back towards the engine, and when I
turned around to look at what was happening, there was
this big black smoke that was following us from that point.
I put on my mask real quick, and then I
remember this smoke just covered all of us, and I
was just sitting there thinking like, oh my god, what's
(29:09):
gonna happen. What's gonna happen to me? I didn't know
what was going on. And then I saw that the
smoke was starting to pass, and so I said, okay,
I made it out of that. And so our officer
grabbed us up again and we started to proceed forward
with the with the vehicle, but we couldn't move anymore
because a lot of the vehicles were abandoned. As we
(29:31):
were walking, we just seen all of these cars on fires.
We saw buildings on fires. The hydrants weren't working, so
we had to collect holes from all of the abandoned
engines and draft the water from the river. It was
a crazy day to think out of the box and
(29:51):
figure out how to deal with the situations and what
happened to that first truck and with the firefighter who said, hey,
will you switch with me so I can get on
that truck. Yeah, everyone in Lot one oh five died
that day and John's body was never found. They have
(30:14):
a picture of one oh five going across the Brooklyn
Bridge as the Trade Center was on fire. So knowing
and seeing the sacrifices of people going to that building,
not knowing how or what they were getting themselves into.
Um they still went, you know. And UM watching some
(30:37):
of these specials and you're seeing the firefighters walk in
the lobby of the building, knowing with fate they were
going to meet. It's just devastating. I remember making a
phone call when I got on the scene. I called
my nephew's grandmother because her number is the only one
I can remember, to tell them to let my family
(30:59):
know that I'm okay right now, and if anything happened
to me, just tell them I died, loving what I'm doing,
and for them not to worry about me. And then
I remember when I hung up the phone, I was
resolved and like a piece and a calmness came over me.
And then after that point, I just got to work
(31:19):
and I just needed to work until I couldn't work anymore.
And that's what you did. Absolutely. Do you remember when
you finally left the scene. Yes, I I left and
we got back about eleven thirty midnight to the firehouse.
And this is why I love people and why I
(31:43):
love doing my job, because when we got back to
the firehouse, all of the neighbors. When in the firehouse,
they brought us food, They gave us hugs, a change
of clothes if we needed it. You know, they were
giving me bobby pins and brushing my hair, and they
just wanted to take care of us, you know. And
(32:04):
to know that people love you as much as you
love them, like it made all the difference in the
world to me, and it made me really want to
keep going back and keep serving the public. And like
I get emotional just thinking about it, because when people
don't feel loved, I don't understand it. When you have
(32:26):
e M t s and police officers and firefighters who
don't know you right and they want to rest their
life to save you. And it's weird because some of
these people hold these weird views of religion and people's
races and color, and it's crazy on the fireside that
(32:46):
they would have such disagreements about women and people of color,
but they would go and sacrifice their lives to go
and save one. So I just wish like the craziness
of the thought of Hay would just leave people's minds
and just everybody just love each other, because there's so
much more fulfilling to love people then say it is.
(33:10):
It's and it's empowering and it's energizing and it makes
for a better life. Absolutely. You know, I will never
forget going to Ground zero the day after, and the
air was so thick and acrid, and you literally could
see everything from the collapsed buildings filling the air and
(33:34):
by extension, filling your lungs, and you know, I I
was told to wear a face mask, and it was
immediately clear to me that despite what was being claimed, Uh,
the air was not safe to breathe. And part of
my work then going forward for years as a senator
was to try to focus on the health impact for
(33:57):
survivors and first responders, workers and residents. Did you suffer
any health complications following your work at Ground Zero? Uh?
The only thing that I've experienced is like nasal drip,
you know. But what I'm concerned about is, even though
it's the twenty anniversary, like I still don't know what
(34:20):
could possibly go on with my body, and the fact
that there's so few studies on women in the fire
service and the effect that cancers or fires have to
our bodies, you know, figuring out what happens with us
giving birth or our uteruses or anything like that, Like
they're so afraid to touch that. That is definitely a
(34:43):
big concerned amone, especially being in the ceremonial unit and
having to attend the depths of people World Trade Center
related illnesses and how we're probably going to meet and
surpass the number of firefighters that died on the day
of September eleven with the number of people that die
from Wheelchace Center related illnesses. You said earlier that this
(35:06):
is a week of lots of reminders because we are
approaching the twenty anniversary of nine eleven. Does this year
anniversary feel different compared to the previous years that we've
all gone through. Yeah, it definitely does, because there's a
(35:26):
lot more going on and happening ceremonies across the city.
But I just think it's good and bad. Right. It's
good because you know, I'm started to see some of
the families coming out, Some of the firefighters sons are
now firefighters on a job and getting together every year
(35:50):
is always a blessing for me to be able to
see the people that I used to work with that
may no longer be on the job, or their families
or the kids of the members. That is always something
that I hold dear. But it's always a time that
brings you back and sobers you up in it. To me,
it's just a gloomy day, but um as a city,
(36:12):
we gather together and deal with it. That's why I'm
so proud of my city. Right. You know, we're remembering
a very terrible time twenty years ago. But the best
way to be a living rebuke to what happened on
nine eleven is to serve others, to love others, to
(36:34):
reach out and lift up others. And that's what you've done.
You've done that over those twenty two years. You will
continue to do that. Thank you so very much for
everything you are doing and will continue to do. I'm
very grateful. Well, thank you too. It's been an honor
and a blessing to talk to you, and I'm so
excited to be able to be here and have this conversation.
(36:56):
It's a dream for me, So I thank you so much.
Regina tells me that, along with all the other things
on her plate, she is thinking of running for office
sometime in the future. I mentioned at the beginning of
my conversation with Regina that she has a beautiful singing voice,
(37:18):
but don't take my word for it. Here she is
three years ago, on the anniversary of nine eleven, performing
God Bless America at a Mets game to the Shaw
Why Bless so may call by sweet by co Bye.
(38:09):
My final guest today is Jay Winnick. Jay was also
my guest at the State of the Union address in
two thousand and eight when I was still the Senator
from New York. Jay lost his brother Glenn on nine eleven,
and when Jay and some friends came up with the
idea of a nine eleven Day of service, I supported
(38:30):
their effort, both as a Senator but really as a
fellow American. Jay is a public relations professional, but he's
dedicated the past twenty years to trying to make something
good and positive come out of all the pain and
loss and grief that his family and so many other
(38:51):
families experienced after nine eleven. You know, Jay, it's been
a great gift for me to be able to follow
and support the work that you've done over the last
two decades. You took the tragedy of the loss of
your brother and turned it into an opportunity for people
(39:14):
to give back and to be of service. Could you,
first of all talk a little bit about your brother
and describe his heroic efforts on that day. Yes, thank you.
As you well know, Glenn was a partner at the
law firm Holland to Night. Their offices were located at
(39:35):
the Broadway Building, which was situated just a couple of
blocks from the Trade Center. Glenn for twenty years was
a volunteer firefighter in our hometown on Long Island, and
he had first time served as the fire commissioner in
that fire district. He was specially certified in building collaps
rescue training. That morning, Glenn was in his apartment when
(39:58):
the first plane hit. He raced downtown. He helped evacuate
the Holland the Night law offices, and then borrowed a
first responder medic beg from responders on the scene and
his building, and he raced into the South tower on
foot to save lives and perished when the South tower collapsed.
His partial remains were recovered March two thousand two, surgical
(40:22):
gloves on his hands, stethoscope on his person, medic beg
by his side, in likely what had been the lobby
area of the South Tower. That's as best we know
about his actions that morning. I know what a tremendous
loss that was to you and your family, and I
(40:44):
also know many family members were so devastated by their
loss and their grief that it took a long time
for them to gain their footing again at all. But
it wasn't too long after you found Glenn and you
began to think about, how do you make something good,
(41:06):
something positive out of this terrible catastrophe. How did that
thinking evolve for you? J Well. A good friend and
colleague named David Payne, who lived three thousand miles away
in California but was a New Yorker, originally called me
soon after the attacks. Here he was this New Yorker
(41:28):
in California, witnessing what was happening in New York, but
really witnessing what was happening all over the country, people
stepping forward with acts of kindness to do whatever they
could in the aftermath at the attacks. And David called me,
and he said look, you're the only nine eleven family member.
I know I feel terrible about your brother, but I
have this idea about trying to create a ritual in
(41:49):
this country where each nine eleven people do good deeds.
And I thought, you know, that really makes sense to me.
Glenn was somebody who lived his life in service and
died in so of us. When David first called me,
my family was still reeling, as so many families as
you well know where. I said to David, let me
think about your idea. I have a lot on my
(42:11):
plate right now. I'll get back with you. And I
did you know some weeks later and I said, you
know what, I'm ready. Let's do this. Let's see what
we can get going here. We had no staff, we
had no budget, we had no plan. But you know,
we were a couple of public relations professionals. We knew
how to get the word out and it was important
to both of us to try and make something good happen.
(42:34):
From this day, we felt like if in the future
people only learned about the attacks and they did not
have a good understanding about the way the world came together,
focusing on our common humanity, embracing our differences, then we
will have lost an opportunity. And so one of the
(42:55):
first things we did was we arranged to meet with
the leaders of all the different nine eleven organizations and
trying to get a sense from them did they feel
like this was a good idea to create a day
of service in honor of those who perished or who
were injured. And universally everybody we spoke with within nine
(43:16):
eleven community was receptive to it, and they thought, yes,
as difficult as things are right now, this is a
good path forward for the future as it relates to
nine eleven. And so we were often running and here
we are twenty years later, still at it. And so
this initiative, with the help of so many people, including yourself,
has grown into the nation's largest annual day of charitable engagement.
(43:39):
Between twenty and thirty million people a year marked the
day by doing good deeds for others. And that is
such a great tribute to your leadership and really to
the mission. Have you found that by talking about Glenn
and the loss that represented to you and your family
and linking that to service, that you're able to help
(44:02):
people who also have suffered loss and are looking for
some kind of positive path forward. Yes, you know. On
one hand, I have a front row see because of
the work I do in this initiative to see the
most amazing outpouring of generosity by people who participate. On
the other hand, I also hear from a lot of people,
(44:23):
and meet with a lot of people and speak a
lot of people who have also suffered loss, and they
express great appreciation that something like this observance exists. We
have a board member who was a nine eleven family
member who lost her husband, and she says this observance
now gives her a safe and positive place to be
(44:44):
on nine eleven. But it's not just about people who
are affected by nine eleven. You know, as we all know,
people suffer great tragedy in their life. But if if
this observance also gives them hope, then we have accomplished something.
And I know that we have because I hear from
them all the time. As we approached the twentieth anniversary,
(45:05):
I don't know about you, but it seems a little surreal.
It felt like it happened yesterday. But I meet young
adults all the time who weren't born then don't fully
grasp the impact that it had on those of us
who experienced it. So what are your specific plans for
this year and how do you intend to try to
(45:27):
reach out, educate and involve young people as well well.
We have a number of plans in place. As you
might imagine, I mean a major milestone. We are again
staging large scale meal packs and cities all over the
country where thousands and thousands of volunteers come together and
they packed nonperishable, dry good meals that are then donated
(45:51):
through Feeding American food banks in those cities. We're partnering
with World Central Kitchen again as we did last year.
I love them, raising the money to purchase meals from
independently owned restaurants and cities around the country, restaurants that
have really been hit hard by the pandemic, so it
helps them, and then those ready to go meals are
(46:13):
donated to healthcare workers and first responders. There's a way
to say thank you for doing what you do to
be on the front line to keep us safe. We
have an education program in the schools UH and we
provide free lesson plans downloadable lesson plans on our website
for teachers to use so they can engage students. Nine
eleven day dot org and there they will find opportunities
(46:36):
to volunteer in so many different ways. We're launching a
national ps A campaign that is very unusual in that
we've brought together more than twenty people from a cross
section of the nine eleven community to together deliver a
message that we are stronger together than we are divided. Yes,
(46:59):
and as you know, well, Secretary Clinton, nine eleven did
affect just Republicans, just Democrats, just people on the East Coast.
It affected everybody. That's right. We were all Americans, and
we were a global community to you know. Of course,
people from more than ninety countries perished on nine eleven,
and the world responded together. So when we think about
(47:22):
the things that typically divide us, you know, all of
that pales in comparison to what happens when we come
together to tackle challenges. And as you reference earlier, we
need that so much. I feel like saying amen, thank
you for that. No, seriously, it it is the message
we are stronger together. We have to start taking care
(47:44):
of each other. We do need to learn more emphathy,
practice more kindness and service. And some people I know
might hear us talking, oh wow, you know so Pollyannish,
so they have no idea how life changing it is
to actually serve somebody else. I mean, that's the great lesson.
(48:06):
You can lift yourself out of grief and loss and
even anger and confusion by going out and helping somebody else.
That's the beauty, that's the real message of everything you've
been doing for twenty years. Well, you articulated it very well.
I can't thank you enough. J. You know, losing your
(48:29):
brother Glenn as he ran toward helping people and then
was lost in the collapse of the South Tower was
such a devastating experience for your entire family. And the
way that you have summoned the best of us, called
us to service, called us to kindness. It's one of
(48:51):
the lasting legacies of not eleven and I am incredibly
grateful for your leadership and your example. Thank you, my friend, Well,
I thank you. As Jay mentioned, you can find out
more about the September eleventh National Day of Service and
Remembrance and how you can get involved at nine eleven
(49:16):
day dot org. As we mark this milestone twenty anniversary,
I'll be thinking about Debbie, Regina, Jay and the countless
other people I've met who were directly impacted by nine eleven.
I'll also be thinking about our country and the challenges
(49:38):
we've overcome, as well as the ones that still lie ahead.
And I'll be thinking about how this terrible tragedy inspired
incredible acts of heroism and service, giving rise to a
remarkable moment of national unity. Oh. I so hope that
(49:59):
as we mark twenty years since nine eleven, we will
be reminded to carry some of that same spirit of
unity with us as we moved together into the future.
You and Me Both is brought to you by I
(50:20):
Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran, Kathleen Russo and
Rob Russo. No relation, but they're both terrific and with
help from Juma Aberdeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Bree Henshaw,
Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, and Lona Velmorrow. Our engineer is
(50:40):
Zack McNeice, and the original music is by Forrest Gray.
Thank you for joining me for this special episode. I
wish you and your loved ones all the best, and
I can't wait to come back to our weekly schedule
starting in twenty two
Host
Hillary Clinton
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