June 28, 2024 • 34 mins
Nancy and Sheryl open today’s CRU by dissecting the disturbing case of Jocelyn Nungaray, a 12-year-old girl who was kidnapped, assaulted, and murdered. They analyze the evidence, including the critical signs of a struggle, and discuss the legal ramifications for the perpetrators. They explore societal reactions to such crimes and the broader implications for justice. Additionally, Nancy and Sheryl briefly touch on Alec Baldwin's legal troubles following the accidental shooting on a movie set, providing their perspectives on responsibility and legal outcomes.
Show Notes:
- (0:00) Welcome! Nancy and Sheryl introduce this week’s crime roundup
- (2:00) Sheryl gives initial details of the case of Jocelyn
- (4:00) Description of Jocelyn's abduction
- (5:30) Evidence of Jocelyn's struggle
- (14:00) Commentary on public perceptions
- (16:00) Discussion on victim blaming
- (22:00) Personal stories and connections
- (23:30) Alec Baldwin's case overview
- (28:00) Potential legal outcomes for Baldwin
---
Nancy Grace is an outspoken, tireless advocate for victims’ rights and one of television's most respected legal analysts. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during her decade as a prosecutor. She is the founder and publisher of CrimeOnline.com, a crime- fighting digital platform that investigates breaking crime news, spreads awareness of missing people and shines a light on cold cases.
In addition, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a daily show hosted by Grace, airs on SIRIUS XM’s Triumph Channel 111 and is downloadable as a podcast on all audio platforms - https://www.crimeonline.com/
Connect with Nancy:
X: @nancygrace
Instagram: @thenancygrace
Facebook: @nancygrace
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice.
Connect with Sheryl:
Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Y'all welcome to the Crime Round Up with Nancy Grace
and Cheryl McCollum. Nancy, your house has been invaded.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
My house has been invaded. But look, I hear my
I see my sister and her daughter right now, who
is gorgeous. She looks like a young and better version
of Julian Roberts. I'm not kidding, she always says. And
there are you using my commemorative coffee cups? They are?
(00:40):
They are using I collect coffee cups, my commemorative Just
please don't use the one of me pregnant. I had
two baby shower, Cheryl, you gave me one, and my
friends in New York, Karen Stark and others gave me
the other one. And they have coffee cups. I met
pregnant on the front coffee cup. The first three dead
(01:01):
when they could walk and talk, is break a coffee cup? Okay?
So I have them far away so nobody can reach them.
Of course, that's exactly what they go for when they
have a coffee cup. Now, aside from the commemoratives coffee
cup issue, we are being joined today by my sister,
her gorgeous and brilliant and she serves by the way
(01:22):
she does it all, and she makes these elaborate meals.
She's imaginarian and it's amazing. And David shut up, David
and the dog. We're all here together, okay. And we've
been sleeping on the floor of the church this week
for a missions trip. So you can imagine what kind
(01:42):
of mood I'm in to talk about Joplin and those two.
You know, I usually don't call defendants animals. I think
I will in this case. Jocelyn Hungary, Yeah, I think
it fits this little twelve year old girl. Everyone, well
not everyone. Something we want in the press are actually
attacking the twelve little girl because she snuck out that night. Okay,
(02:03):
the mom says, and my sister and I and my
brother grew up with my parents both being gone to
work when we woke up. So this mom, the mom
had to get up early and go to work, and
so she's taken the daughter with her, I assume, because
she didn't want to leave her at home. So she says,
go to bed, Go to bed, because you have to
(02:23):
get up early and go to work with me. The
mom goes to sleep, The daughter sneaks out, not to
do anything nefarious, but to go call her little thirteen
year old boyfriend on the cell phone a block or
two away at the seven to eleven. So I guess
she had a curfew on when she could use the phone.
I'm extrapolating here from the facts. So she sneaks out
(02:47):
to use the cell phone, and a lot of it's
called on video. Two guys did not know her before,
which is important, walk up to her, and we now know,
asked her for directions, and she says sure, an little
boy can hear two adults talking to her on the
front in the background, so she starts showing them directions
(03:10):
and you can see them walking along with her, and
the next thing you know, she's under a bridge, bound
at the wrists and the ankles, tripped from the waist
down and is raped and strangled and thrown in a
value twelve years old.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
The part of the whole thing that sticks out for
me are the bite marks and scratches one of the
assailants had on his arms That child fought him, Nancy,
she fought him.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Well, I look at everything from a probated point of view.
What can I use a trial? And all of that
is going to be critical to show that they had
been in She had been in a horrible, horrible fight.
But can we look at that. It's a flight for
(04:01):
just one moment Number one, When the police show up
at the guy's door, he tries to jump off the balcony.
You know, if a cop comes to your door, why
didn't try to jump off a balcony. He shaved his face,
changed his appearance, and asked his boss for an advance
so he could lead the juristictioning, and actually mentioned that
someone had been killed. Now, Cheryl, I can't win for losing.
(04:25):
We've always said illegal immigrant, and then that has been
changed recently to another term, undocumented migrant. So I have
a slew of people online angry that I said illegal immigrant,
and another slew angry that I said undocumented migrant. So
I wrote one person back, which I really do, and
said I use both terms. You're mistaken, And then they
(04:49):
wrote back, of course you should have put it in
the banner.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I let you know what, Yeah, let me just point
something out.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
That's the important thing here. Okay, can we refocus on Jocelyn,
the twelve year old girl who has been killed. We
have a twelve year old murder victim.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
But I am more concerned about Nancy Grace's banner not
being complete with every single possible thing. We can call
these folks, Okay, I'll tell you what. We'll call them
a pos. That's what they are, technic collegial term. Absolutely,
you've got these folks walking down the street that have
never seen this child, didn't know this child, had no
reason to come up to this child that said okay,
(05:31):
she'll do, and on a dime, decided they're going to
grab her, kidnap her, sexually assault her, and then dispose
of her after they've torture her. Because she was under
that bridge getting assaulted for two hours, they took turns
at her. And the reason they threw her in the
by U Creek, he said, toss her in there to
(05:53):
get rid of the DNA.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
They raped her. And I know that the Texas prosecutors
haven't come out said that yet, but they did. I mean,
use your noodle please. She's stripped from the waist down,
she's bound hands and feet, and her back is covered
in scratches. They raped her. I don't like that word either,
(06:16):
but that is the heirst truth of what this little
girl endured. And to have the wherewithal to say, throw
her in the water to get rid of the DNA.
Now I've used this comparison before, Cheryl, but just think
about it. In New York, everyone thinks nature is Central Park,
(06:37):
which is gorgeous. I have to it's beautiful nature. It ain't,
but it's a very close facibility thereof in Central Park
or any park trail. If you see a little rabbit
hop across your trail, I assume your first instinct is
(07:00):
to try to throw it a tree or it. Think, oh,
I wish I could pint it. Not to grab the
rabbit and bite it in the neck and tear its
throat out. See, because you're not a predator. When I
see a twelve year old out alone, I think, oh,
my stars, who is with this child? Why is this
child out by itself? I'm going to report the parents
(07:22):
to defects. That's the first thing I think made they
write in the hell how dare they? But these two
their first instinct is hey, can't you imagine the knowing
glances they exchanged when they were luring this little girl away?
Number One, it's a rape and the prosecutors have not
(07:45):
claimed it's a rape yet because they claim that they're
waiting on the DNA test. DNA can come back with
a rapid DNA test, it doesn't take this long. That said,
prosecutors are used that as a reason not to announce
the death penalty. Also, I'd like to point out that
(08:07):
under Texas law, a kidnap is an underlying aggravating circumstance
to seek the death penalty. And I have been asked
why do you speak haltingly sometimes? And the reason is
because it's a lot of technical jargon to throw around,
or complicated sentences or facts that are very dense, so
(08:29):
I separate to make it make sense. So what I'm
saying is there are certain aggravating circumstances, as they are
called under the law by which you can seek the
death penalty. If you don't have those circumstances, you cannot
seek the death penalty under Texas law. I think we
(08:50):
would all agree that Texas is pretty, let's just say,
very well known for seeking and getting the death penalty. Anyway,
they're acting like the only way they can get it
is if or even seek it. Is if Jocelyn has
been raped, that is not true. If she has been kidnapped,
(09:11):
that is another underlying circumstance and aggravating circumstance by which
you can see the DP. What does kidnap mean? All
that is required is minimal asportation. What is asportation? Asportation
means the moving moving of somewhat against their will. It's
(09:34):
long been established by the US Supreme Court that asportation,
the movement of the victim against their will, does not
require any specific distance. It can be one inch under
the law. I can put Cheryl McCollum in the trunk
of my car and drag you from, you know, across
(09:56):
the country. That's kidnapped. But if I move to you
one inch against your will, that is kidnapped. So them
taking her under the bridge, binding your hens and feet,
if they moved her one inch against a will, that
is a kidnap. Air go Hents. Therefore, the underlying circumstance
(10:17):
has been met and they can't seek the Texas DP,
which is the needle. Now, this is not a big
argument pro or con death penalty. That's up to a journey.
But what I'm saying is, if we're gonna have the
death penalty, this would be the case. I'd pull it
out of the moss balls. I'm gonna say y'all know
what I just thought about air go hents. Therefore, I'm
(10:45):
gonna sound so good tonight at dinner. So lis day
you say ergo, I will do a backfluff. Well, start
stretching out because it's happening, but of your own militia.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
The reason I said sex assault is because again I
don't know that sodomy was not involved in that two
hour period of time. So I just wanted it all encompassed.
And here's another thing about the death penalty. They bound her,
so if you take the sex assault out of it,
they kidnapped her, they bound her, they stripped her, and
they strangled her.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
That's enough right there. Speaking of in many jurisdictions, they
have a catch all phrase to seek the DP, and
it's especially heinous, and that can be just about any
murder you pick. In my mind, is heinous. That said,
I predict that they will ultimately announce DP, although I'm
(11:46):
a little concerned that they're hinging it on whether she
was raped, that they're saying that publicly, because they don't
need a rape to seek the DP, but they're stating
that publicly. We'll just see how that how that pans out.
But well, let's talk about the other reality. What Please
(12:08):
don't say jail house justice. I mean we always people
say jail house Gian says, I can only think a
handful of cases where the defendant was actually killed. When
was Jeff Dahmer? And when was some priest that molested
a lot of boys? I can't remember his same father.
Was it Gogan? I can't say, I'll look it up.
It was Gogan, John Gogan, a Catholic grace murdered in jail.
(12:32):
I convict the child mile aster who oh ran into
one of his victims behind bars. Yeah, I hate when
that happens. I hate when that happens too.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Of all the prisons in all the world, jail house,
air go justice.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh you did it, let me go?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Do it?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Back what you said here?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Okay, So I just wanted to say, nobody rapes one time.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
So think about what had to happen here.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
You have two people that are now like minded in
what they are going to do to this child.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Within seconds. This was very quick.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So my point is, if me and you were walking
down the street and we see a wallet on the ground, hey,
we may decide to take it and keep it, not
turn it in.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I know we would not decide that. Sure, we would not.
We would absolutely we would turn it in. There was
something he cay about you, and now it's coming out.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
If you and I found a wallet on the ground
full of money and no idea, we would still turn
it into the police. We would dirty money. There's nothing
good we could buy with it. We couldn't enjoy it. However,
I can see quickly in a moment where that could
happen and two people be like minded. When you're talking
about kidnapping and sexually assaulting a child, and I want
(13:55):
to really emphasize something people tell me all the time,
well what was she wearing?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
What was she doing out there? Was she drinking? Okay,
has somebody actually said that this time? They're already harping
her sneaking out at night. It's just ridiculous, because here's
the thing. You and I have worked cases where infants
have been sexually assaulted, where elderly people have been sexually assaulted.
(14:20):
The oldest victim I had was eighty nine years old
and was assaulted on her birthday.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So you can tell me all day what was she
wearing and what does she do to provoke it? These
animals do not operate and think like we do. Sex
has nothing to do with it. It is a violent.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Crime, you know, a case. And I got to be
friends with the victims down Cortavitrotto and oh my goodness,
gorgeous smart. I think she's working on her master's degree.
And she would go jogging with her father, Phil Vitronto,
almost every day in Long Island, and he former firefighter.
(15:03):
He was down on.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
The back and he that one day and it really
hit home because I would go exercise with my dad
all the time and I would have to jog to
keep up with him walking.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
You know, he was a heart patient. Look at his
picture right down anyway and made me think of him.
So every day they would go jogging, and that day
his back was hurting and he didn't go. And after
he told me this privately, I think we talked about
it on crime Stories. After about forty minutes, he got
(15:37):
this horrible, horrible feeling and he started trying to collar
and collar and call her and Kreta would not answer
this out and he knew right then and he went
and started looking for her. Well, some perv found her,
did not know her, attacked her. She fought he knocked
her teeth out, He molested her and killed her, and
(16:01):
Peel found the body. He and I worked together to
have familial DNA allowed in New York, him doing the
most part. I just, you know, was a mouthpiece, and
it did get passed, and the defendant was found through
familial DNA. But you should have seen the way people
(16:23):
talked about Karna. I mean, she's very beautiful, she's very
shape plea. She worked out all the time, and she
was wearing jogging pants and a workout bra, which is
exactly what I wore for years when I would gay
jog and didn't really think anything about it. But you
would think that she was a horror Babylon whenever that is,
(16:45):
I'm deserve that. And I mean I remember in the
midst of the search for her killer. You know, I
get up super early, and at that time, I was
getting up between four and five East back now, I
get up at five and the first to go to
do was take the trash out of the night before
(17:06):
and let the dog out, and the stars would still
be out and I would see this what kind of
a golden star every morning around four point fifty and
I was at the beds of the Karata tried to
follow the killer and I named it Caurida Star, And
to this day, when I got outside of the boarding,
(17:26):
I see it, but it removes me of how everyone
was attacking her because of what she wore when she
was jocking.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
But do you know what I tell people all the time,
how in the world at the Playboy mansion can the
playmates be out by the pool and bathing suits and
sunbathing and walking all around. There's never been one documented rape.
It has nothing to do with what you look like
or what you are wearing. Those playmates are flawless and
they're already half naked, but they should be safe.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Way wait wait, wait, did you say naked? N e
kk I d naked. I showed there's a big difference
in naked and naked and understand that that's subtle but
important decision. So do you want to put money on
whether we can get David? You know, I switched off
hot tea. I don't know when this happened. I'm back
in coffee. You said we can get David to give
(18:17):
me a cup of coffee. Oh, so he's looking at
his iPad like he can't hear me. You know, he's
avoiding it. I'm going to be first dollar that he
will get me a cup of coffee. First of all,
you shouldn't even have to ask for it. I don't
want Cheryl's lay, David. What do I even have to
ask for the cup of coffee? You know what, He's
going to make it double. He is making the coffee. Now,
(18:40):
this is so funny. I told you my niece is
a vegetarian. He makes all of these incredible meals for
my sister. My brother in law was a huge inspiration
to me. He battled MS for years and years and
years and finally passed away. And do you know all
those years him in a wheelchair, never once complained, never once,
(19:04):
Cheryl never.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And what a struggle that is. Oh bless him. And
he was such an inspiration to other people because everybody
that knew what he was going through, especially the way
he was for his children.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Excuse me, emergency, David, did you put just a half?
Just a half a tablespoon of half and half. I
have not been on a diet for the last fifteen years,
for blow it all with half and half. Anyway, I
got off, I'm going to say, you got me all
(19:38):
track anyway, So she makes these incredible meals with all
sorts of you know, straight from the farm, pro deuce.
She comes here and since do you're of coffee, it's
right over there, and I suddenly have a jar of folgers,
and guess what, it's not even folgers, as you know,
(19:59):
I think out and I get the horrible coffee. Actually
I like it from Dollar Tree, and it's like powder.
It doesn't even look like little freeze dried chucks. It's powder.
I don't know if she broke down and drank any
or not, because I'm just guessing that they grind their
own beans and you know that whole thing. Now, what
(20:20):
were we saying about the crime? I'm sorry. I was
just telling a story about you, Cheryl McCollum, about how
I was working at the Battered Women Center, and we,
of course, you and I have wildly divergent stories about
how we first met. We were at the new Center
down off Prior and there was a big to do
(20:42):
that we were going to give the battered women their
own cell phone, their secret cell phone, which is so
funny because they were speaking as a shoe box and the
city was going to pay for it, and it was
that joint initiative that I claim it's the first time
I met you, but you have a bunch or colorful description.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yes, we knew each other long before the cell phone
program because I called you and said, would you please
come and speak at the event, because not just were
you behind it, but you help and launch it was
going to be the ticket, you know. And let me
just tell everybody that was the first time in the
United States that that program had ever been done. And
(21:27):
you and I went to Bell South and said, look,
this is what we want to do. And I can't
remember her name, but there was a young vice president
there and said, well, we could probably use phones that
are no longer marketable. I'll never forget that term because
I'd never heard it.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
And she goes, is.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
That the phones you want? And I was like yes,
even though I wasn't really even sure what she was saying.
But they gave us the telephones that they weren't going
to sell anymore, and they were those gigantic bag phones.
So Nancy, when she first saw what they gave us,
she was like, good lord, that could be the weapon if.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
They can't get cellph oeversus like an animal that weather
but it was great. It worked beautifully because they were
not marketable. They couldn't really, But I mean, how can
that be a secret cellphone? Where she gonna hide it?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Well, I mean at that point it shouldn't have been
a secret anyway. I wanted the perpetrator to know. She
could die on that one have won at any time,
no matter where she was.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Well, if the perp knew it, he'd get rid of it.
Well that's the reason we made him non marketable, so
he couldn't No, I mean, he wouldn't make it where
she couldn't use it. Oh, but that's another charge.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, after she's dead, I would have go on the
record none of our women were killed.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Okay, Cheryl back to this. Oh oh go Cheryl back
to the case and chief, can I tell you? I'm
sure you already know. One of the defendants said, well,
I didn't rape her. I just kissed her. I'm like,
what jackass would even admit to kissing a twelve year
old girl bound at the wrist and ankles under bridge
(23:00):
with her pants off? Why would you even just like?
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Oh, the same one that says, oh, well, my buddy
told me to throw her off the bridge to get
rid of the DNA, So I did the same, idiot,
which is the reason we have DNA. I mean, people
just don't understand the technology we have.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Now, okay, can I just ask you one quick thing
to create further controversy. What about Alec Baldwin. He picks
up a gun, he shoots a woman, a mother, She dies,
the child, her child, her only son, is in so
much trauma when he hears his mom has passed away,
(23:40):
he cannot speak. He cannot under a word. It was
either two or three full days he couldn't speak. I
fully believe Alec Baldwin did not know it was a
live round. But we still have the fact that he
pointed a gun and pulled the trigger and kill somebody.
How many people say I didn't need to kill them? Everybody?
(24:02):
How about everybody is ues.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
So there's so many issues there, Nancy, I don't understand,
and I will never understand having live rounds on a
movie set. I will never understand not knowing that, hey,
you shouldn't point a gun at anybody and pull you know,
and pull the trigger.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I mean, this is stuff you should know by four
years old. Well, right now, the new Mexico judge is
planning to rule on a request to dismiss the sole
charge against Baldin. It wouldn't be the first time that
it's been asked to be they've asked to dismiss it.
But this is going to be a problem for the state.
The state did dismiss it in the past, and then
(24:41):
they resurrected it, and that's going to be haunting the prosecution.
The first thing the defense is going to say, as
they should. I mean, if I were a defense attorney,
which thank you Heaven, I'm not, but if I were,
the first thing you were says this is bogus. S
in fact, as the prosecutor, isn't it true? You will
(25:05):
learn the prosecutor dropped all the charges against Alec Baldwin,
yet here we are. That would be the first thing
I would argue that was a huge mistake by the state.
I mean they if they didn't want to go forward,
then drop it. But don't drop it and then resurrect it.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Nancy, if you get in a car and you have
a rack, it doesn't matter if it ain't your car.
If you pick up a real firearm and you pointed
at another person and you put your finger on the
trigger and you pull that trigger. Every single thing that
happens is your responsibility.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Your pressing to the choir. Again, you basically regurgitate what
I've already just said. But yes, Cheryl, you're right. Here
is what I'm gonna do for now on. I'm just
gonna take that sentence and I'm just gonna say a
bunch of crap and then just plug.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
That in a right Cheryl. And you know another thing, Nancy,
here's what I think. You're right, Cheryl, I'm just gonna
plug that in. That's gonna be the crime round up
for now on. You can take next Friday off, Nancy,
I got it.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Don't worry about it. Yes, I've been working for Cheryl
McCollum for so long now I'm thinking it through about
what is going to happen. The armorer Guitaris, the who
should not have been the armorer. For anybody that doesn't know,
an armorer, and there's no reason you should know. An
armorer is a person that takes care of all the weapons,
(26:34):
the ballistics. It could be a sword, it could be
numb chucks. It could be a baseball bat. It could
be a gun, it could be bullets, it could be
those crazy round things. That they throw at each other
in martial arts movies, but the armorer is in charge
of all of that. She has already been convicted. Now
(26:55):
what does that mean a trial strategy wise, that means
that Alec Baldwin is going to be able to blame
her at trial. See, she's already been veig because she's
the bad guy, not me, and that's you know, really
fortuitous for him. But he is the one that pulled
the trigger, so it's really on her to make sure
(27:16):
that there are no live rounds in the gun. However,
he is the one that pulled the trigger, and under
the law, he should be held responsible. I would say,
if I completely objectively looked at this, that it's an
involuntary manslaughter. It's not a murderer. It's not a malice murder.
(27:36):
It's not a felony murder. It's not a voluntary manslaughter.
It is the lowest form of homicide. It is an
involuntary manslaughter. That's what it is. Now, what they're going
to do with it, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I'll just say one more thing about the whole thing.
I've heard outrageous things that famous people require in their
green room, and I'm sure you've heard it too. Did
they demand certain things that are just crazy? Somebody of
his status in Hollywood could have demanded not to have
real firearms with real live ammunition.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
But why would he have even thought to say that?
That mean?
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Well, you know, some folks in Hollywood are so anti gun.
It's amazing to me they hadn't already done it.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Well, if he was anti gun, he wouldn't be shooting
a Western where they shoot each other.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Well, you would think that, But I'm just saying I
heard they were also practicing.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yes, they were practicing with wive rounds. I believe that
day at launch, sometimes before the shooting, they were practicing.
Why are they practicing shooting? But anyway, that said, they
were practice shooting on the set, you know, outside the
set with guns that day. Hey, we bury the lead
for Pete's sake. What about the reality show? I don't
(28:54):
know that I know about it. Okay, Well I'll tell
you about it then, Nick, connect like it was your idea. Okay, Okay,
the Baldwins are about to preview their own family reality show.
Quick google it, Google it. That's goo g l E.
Cheryl McColl on TLC and you've got the wife who
(29:17):
is the pretend Spaniard. And I could play this clip
of her over and over and over and never get
tired of it. His wife grew up, David, didn't she
grow up in Boston? Yes see, he knows all pop culture.
I'm keeping you. The only way to get away with
this is because he's not listening to anything else. She
(29:41):
grew up at Boston, and she spent summers or some
extent a period of time in I believe it was Spain,
developed an accent, a Spanish accent, and reinvented herself and
said she is Spanish. And then she did a cooking
segment on I don't know Good Morning America or the
(30:02):
Today's Show, and she said something like, how do you
say how do you say cucumber? I'm like, oh, okay. Anyway,
that's a whole nother canon worms that has no berry
on the shooting of the rust set, but the announcement
that she he and their seven children are going to
(30:25):
have a reality show on TLC full of quote, love
and laughter, and I guess the usual family hygienks. The timing,
the optic of this is bad because they we still
have the son of the victim suffering while they are
(30:46):
presenting a family reality show where everyone is laughing. You know,
I guess having Christmas or birthdays and all that everything
that this little boy, Alena Hutchins little boy will never have.
He will never have that with his mother. Now, many people,
jaded though they be, state that this reality show is
(31:08):
in fact not a money grab, as some would argue,
but an attempt to humanize Alec Baldwin prior to his trial.
Show him with his children, show him with his wife,
show him in a family setting so regular people like
you and me can relate to him and not convict him.
(31:30):
Some cynical lawyers, like myself think that that's what's happening here.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Well maybe it should be renamed love, Laughter and Gunfire.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Let's tell the truth. If you want a reality show,
make it real. It's very hard to work with you, Cheryl.
If you're not going to stay abreast with the legal
president of the reality show about to launch on ELP,
I'm go go researcher right now. Hold on, can we
talk about you not watching TV? Yeah? Sure, you know,
(32:03):
I never had a chance to watch TV until I
had the twins and they got you know, we would
watch kids show but now John David and I love
to stream murder mysteries and we little known fact, love
to stream martial arts. Oh how fun? Wait? Are you serious?
(32:27):
Because I am very very You can.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
See right now you and John David doing that and
having a blast. But like you already said, the numb
chucks throwing stars, I can totally see it.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
My number one. People ask me all the time what
do you do in spare time? Well, A, I like
to cook, b be with them. But see if it's
got the name Donnie yen on it, I'm in. He
was the star of a new ree creem It man
ip Man. Well, why am I telling you this? You're
not interested in culture? See how I did that? I
(33:06):
refer to martial arts movies as culture.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Okay, education was wasted on me.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
That fancy's going you with two with stars? Wake sure
my parents' money? What do you think is going to
happen next? How long till the DA announces the DP
and the Jocelyn case Jocelyn Nungree case.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I think it'll be soon. I don't think they're gonna
wait on it. I think they're gonna move very quickly.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I think they're gonna wait and that because they've already
started claiming they have to wait for DNA, which is
not true. What do you think maybe two weeks? Three? Oh?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
I don't think it'll be three. I really don't. I
think they're gonna come back and get this thing handled.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Okay, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
You go enjoy your sister and niece and y'all just
have a wonderful time. And how lovely that she is
there to cook those incredible meals.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
But that are all so beautiful. Y'all are going to
have such fun. We really are. It's such a blessing.
Our fairies very very close. It's not the same without
my dad, but that said, we do have each other.
So I'm really really blessed. Can you go go get
some culture? I advise you just hop on to the
(34:19):
TV and stream some Donigane martial arts. Start with ip
men ip as in Pennsylvania. Men Air, Go Air go,
you can get some culture. Girls. Bye, y'all, all right, honey,
love you dearly.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is the Crime Round Up
with Zones Heaven
Y'all welcome to the Crime Round Up with Nancy Grace
and Cheryl McCollum. Nancy, your house has been invaded.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
My house has been invaded. But look, I hear my
I see my sister and her daughter right now, who
is gorgeous. She looks like a young and better version
of Julian Roberts. I'm not kidding, she always says. And
there are you using my commemorative coffee cups? They are?
(00:40):
They are using I collect coffee cups, my commemorative Just
please don't use the one of me pregnant. I had
two baby shower, Cheryl, you gave me one, and my
friends in New York, Karen Stark and others gave me
the other one. And they have coffee cups. I met
pregnant on the front coffee cup. The first three dead
(01:01):
when they could walk and talk, is break a coffee cup? Okay?
So I have them far away so nobody can reach them.
Of course, that's exactly what they go for when they
have a coffee cup. Now, aside from the commemoratives coffee
cup issue, we are being joined today by my sister,
her gorgeous and brilliant and she serves by the way
(01:22):
she does it all, and she makes these elaborate meals.
She's imaginarian and it's amazing. And David shut up, David
and the dog. We're all here together, okay. And we've
been sleeping on the floor of the church this week
for a missions trip. So you can imagine what kind
(01:42):
of mood I'm in to talk about Joplin and those two.
You know, I usually don't call defendants animals. I think
I will in this case. Jocelyn Hungary, Yeah, I think
it fits this little twelve year old girl. Everyone, well
not everyone. Something we want in the press are actually
attacking the twelve little girl because she snuck out that night. Okay,
(02:03):
the mom says, and my sister and I and my
brother grew up with my parents both being gone to
work when we woke up. So this mom, the mom
had to get up early and go to work, and
so she's taken the daughter with her, I assume, because
she didn't want to leave her at home. So she says,
go to bed, Go to bed, because you have to
(02:23):
get up early and go to work with me. The
mom goes to sleep, The daughter sneaks out, not to
do anything nefarious, but to go call her little thirteen
year old boyfriend on the cell phone a block or
two away at the seven to eleven. So I guess
she had a curfew on when she could use the phone.
I'm extrapolating here from the facts. So she sneaks out
(02:47):
to use the cell phone, and a lot of it's
called on video. Two guys did not know her before,
which is important, walk up to her, and we now know,
asked her for directions, and she says sure, an little
boy can hear two adults talking to her on the
front in the background, so she starts showing them directions
(03:10):
and you can see them walking along with her, and
the next thing you know, she's under a bridge, bound
at the wrists and the ankles, tripped from the waist
down and is raped and strangled and thrown in a
value twelve years old.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
The part of the whole thing that sticks out for
me are the bite marks and scratches one of the
assailants had on his arms That child fought him, Nancy,
she fought him.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Well, I look at everything from a probated point of view.
What can I use a trial? And all of that
is going to be critical to show that they had
been in She had been in a horrible, horrible fight.
But can we look at that. It's a flight for
(04:01):
just one moment Number one, When the police show up
at the guy's door, he tries to jump off the balcony.
You know, if a cop comes to your door, why
didn't try to jump off a balcony. He shaved his face,
changed his appearance, and asked his boss for an advance
so he could lead the juristictioning, and actually mentioned that
someone had been killed. Now, Cheryl, I can't win for losing.
(04:25):
We've always said illegal immigrant, and then that has been
changed recently to another term, undocumented migrant. So I have
a slew of people online angry that I said illegal immigrant,
and another slew angry that I said undocumented migrant. So
I wrote one person back, which I really do, and
said I use both terms. You're mistaken, And then they
(04:49):
wrote back, of course you should have put it in
the banner.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I let you know what, Yeah, let me just point
something out.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
That's the important thing here. Okay, can we refocus on Jocelyn,
the twelve year old girl who has been killed. We
have a twelve year old murder victim.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
But I am more concerned about Nancy Grace's banner not
being complete with every single possible thing. We can call
these folks, Okay, I'll tell you what. We'll call them
a pos. That's what they are, technic collegial term. Absolutely,
you've got these folks walking down the street that have
never seen this child, didn't know this child, had no
reason to come up to this child that said okay,
(05:31):
she'll do, and on a dime, decided they're going to
grab her, kidnap her, sexually assault her, and then dispose
of her after they've torture her. Because she was under
that bridge getting assaulted for two hours, they took turns
at her. And the reason they threw her in the
by U Creek, he said, toss her in there to
(05:53):
get rid of the DNA.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
They raped her. And I know that the Texas prosecutors
haven't come out said that yet, but they did. I mean,
use your noodle please. She's stripped from the waist down,
she's bound hands and feet, and her back is covered
in scratches. They raped her. I don't like that word either,
(06:16):
but that is the heirst truth of what this little
girl endured. And to have the wherewithal to say, throw
her in the water to get rid of the DNA.
Now I've used this comparison before, Cheryl, but just think
about it. In New York, everyone thinks nature is Central Park,
(06:37):
which is gorgeous. I have to it's beautiful nature. It ain't,
but it's a very close facibility thereof in Central Park
or any park trail. If you see a little rabbit
hop across your trail, I assume your first instinct is
(07:00):
to try to throw it a tree or it. Think, oh,
I wish I could pint it. Not to grab the
rabbit and bite it in the neck and tear its
throat out. See, because you're not a predator. When I
see a twelve year old out alone, I think, oh,
my stars, who is with this child? Why is this
child out by itself? I'm going to report the parents
(07:22):
to defects. That's the first thing I think made they
write in the hell how dare they? But these two
their first instinct is hey, can't you imagine the knowing
glances they exchanged when they were luring this little girl away?
Number One, it's a rape and the prosecutors have not
(07:45):
claimed it's a rape yet because they claim that they're
waiting on the DNA test. DNA can come back with
a rapid DNA test, it doesn't take this long. That said,
prosecutors are used that as a reason not to announce
the death penalty. Also, I'd like to point out that
(08:07):
under Texas law, a kidnap is an underlying aggravating circumstance
to seek the death penalty. And I have been asked
why do you speak haltingly sometimes? And the reason is
because it's a lot of technical jargon to throw around,
or complicated sentences or facts that are very dense, so
(08:29):
I separate to make it make sense. So what I'm
saying is there are certain aggravating circumstances, as they are
called under the law by which you can seek the
death penalty. If you don't have those circumstances, you cannot
seek the death penalty under Texas law. I think we
(08:50):
would all agree that Texas is pretty, let's just say,
very well known for seeking and getting the death penalty. Anyway,
they're acting like the only way they can get it
is if or even seek it. Is if Jocelyn has
been raped, that is not true. If she has been kidnapped,
(09:11):
that is another underlying circumstance and aggravating circumstance by which
you can see the DP. What does kidnap mean? All
that is required is minimal asportation. What is asportation? Asportation
means the moving moving of somewhat against their will. It's
(09:34):
long been established by the US Supreme Court that asportation,
the movement of the victim against their will, does not
require any specific distance. It can be one inch under
the law. I can put Cheryl McCollum in the trunk
of my car and drag you from, you know, across
(09:56):
the country. That's kidnapped. But if I move to you
one inch against your will, that is kidnapped. So them
taking her under the bridge, binding your hens and feet,
if they moved her one inch against a will, that
is a kidnap. Air go Hents. Therefore, the underlying circumstance
(10:17):
has been met and they can't seek the Texas DP,
which is the needle. Now, this is not a big
argument pro or con death penalty. That's up to a journey.
But what I'm saying is, if we're gonna have the
death penalty, this would be the case. I'd pull it
out of the moss balls. I'm gonna say y'all know
what I just thought about air go hents. Therefore, I'm
(10:45):
gonna sound so good tonight at dinner. So lis day
you say ergo, I will do a backfluff. Well, start
stretching out because it's happening, but of your own militia.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
The reason I said sex assault is because again I
don't know that sodomy was not involved in that two
hour period of time. So I just wanted it all encompassed.
And here's another thing about the death penalty. They bound her,
so if you take the sex assault out of it,
they kidnapped her, they bound her, they stripped her, and
they strangled her.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
That's enough right there. Speaking of in many jurisdictions, they
have a catch all phrase to seek the DP, and
it's especially heinous, and that can be just about any
murder you pick. In my mind, is heinous. That said,
I predict that they will ultimately announce DP, although I'm
(11:46):
a little concerned that they're hinging it on whether she
was raped, that they're saying that publicly, because they don't
need a rape to seek the DP, but they're stating
that publicly. We'll just see how that how that pans out.
But well, let's talk about the other reality. What Please
(12:08):
don't say jail house justice. I mean we always people
say jail house Gian says, I can only think a
handful of cases where the defendant was actually killed. When
was Jeff Dahmer? And when was some priest that molested
a lot of boys? I can't remember his same father.
Was it Gogan? I can't say, I'll look it up.
It was Gogan, John Gogan, a Catholic grace murdered in jail.
(12:32):
I convict the child mile aster who oh ran into
one of his victims behind bars. Yeah, I hate when
that happens. I hate when that happens too.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Of all the prisons in all the world, jail house,
air go justice.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh you did it, let me go?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Do it?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Back what you said here?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Okay, So I just wanted to say, nobody rapes one time.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
So think about what had to happen here.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
You have two people that are now like minded in
what they are going to do to this child.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Within seconds. This was very quick.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So my point is, if me and you were walking
down the street and we see a wallet on the ground, hey,
we may decide to take it and keep it, not
turn it in.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I know we would not decide that. Sure, we would not.
We would absolutely we would turn it in. There was
something he cay about you, and now it's coming out.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
If you and I found a wallet on the ground
full of money and no idea, we would still turn
it into the police. We would dirty money. There's nothing
good we could buy with it. We couldn't enjoy it. However,
I can see quickly in a moment where that could
happen and two people be like minded. When you're talking
about kidnapping and sexually assaulting a child, and I want
(13:55):
to really emphasize something people tell me all the time,
well what was she wearing?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
What was she doing out there? Was she drinking? Okay,
has somebody actually said that this time? They're already harping
her sneaking out at night. It's just ridiculous, because here's
the thing. You and I have worked cases where infants
have been sexually assaulted, where elderly people have been sexually assaulted.
(14:20):
The oldest victim I had was eighty nine years old
and was assaulted on her birthday.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So you can tell me all day what was she
wearing and what does she do to provoke it? These
animals do not operate and think like we do. Sex
has nothing to do with it. It is a violent.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Crime, you know, a case. And I got to be
friends with the victims down Cortavitrotto and oh my goodness,
gorgeous smart. I think she's working on her master's degree.
And she would go jogging with her father, Phil Vitronto,
almost every day in Long Island, and he former firefighter.
(15:03):
He was down on.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
The back and he that one day and it really
hit home because I would go exercise with my dad
all the time and I would have to jog to
keep up with him walking.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
You know, he was a heart patient. Look at his
picture right down anyway and made me think of him.
So every day they would go jogging, and that day
his back was hurting and he didn't go. And after
he told me this privately, I think we talked about
it on crime Stories. After about forty minutes, he got
(15:37):
this horrible, horrible feeling and he started trying to collar
and collar and call her and Kreta would not answer
this out and he knew right then and he went
and started looking for her. Well, some perv found her,
did not know her, attacked her. She fought he knocked
her teeth out, He molested her and killed her, and
(16:01):
Peel found the body. He and I worked together to
have familial DNA allowed in New York, him doing the
most part. I just, you know, was a mouthpiece, and
it did get passed, and the defendant was found through
familial DNA. But you should have seen the way people
(16:23):
talked about Karna. I mean, she's very beautiful, she's very
shape plea. She worked out all the time, and she
was wearing jogging pants and a workout bra, which is
exactly what I wore for years when I would gay
jog and didn't really think anything about it. But you
would think that she was a horror Babylon whenever that is,
(16:45):
I'm deserve that. And I mean I remember in the
midst of the search for her killer. You know, I
get up super early, and at that time, I was
getting up between four and five East back now, I
get up at five and the first to go to
do was take the trash out of the night before
(17:06):
and let the dog out, and the stars would still
be out and I would see this what kind of
a golden star every morning around four point fifty and
I was at the beds of the Karata tried to
follow the killer and I named it Caurida Star, And
to this day, when I got outside of the boarding,
(17:26):
I see it, but it removes me of how everyone
was attacking her because of what she wore when she
was jocking.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
But do you know what I tell people all the time,
how in the world at the Playboy mansion can the
playmates be out by the pool and bathing suits and
sunbathing and walking all around. There's never been one documented rape.
It has nothing to do with what you look like
or what you are wearing. Those playmates are flawless and
they're already half naked, but they should be safe.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Way wait wait, wait, did you say naked? N e
kk I d naked. I showed there's a big difference
in naked and naked and understand that that's subtle but
important decision. So do you want to put money on
whether we can get David? You know, I switched off
hot tea. I don't know when this happened. I'm back
in coffee. You said we can get David to give
(18:17):
me a cup of coffee. Oh, so he's looking at
his iPad like he can't hear me. You know, he's
avoiding it. I'm going to be first dollar that he
will get me a cup of coffee. First of all,
you shouldn't even have to ask for it. I don't
want Cheryl's lay, David. What do I even have to
ask for the cup of coffee? You know what, He's
going to make it double. He is making the coffee. Now,
(18:40):
this is so funny. I told you my niece is
a vegetarian. He makes all of these incredible meals for
my sister. My brother in law was a huge inspiration
to me. He battled MS for years and years and
years and finally passed away. And do you know all
those years him in a wheelchair, never once complained, never once,
(19:04):
Cheryl never.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
And what a struggle that is. Oh bless him. And
he was such an inspiration to other people because everybody
that knew what he was going through, especially the way
he was for his children.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Excuse me, emergency, David, did you put just a half?
Just a half a tablespoon of half and half. I
have not been on a diet for the last fifteen years,
for blow it all with half and half. Anyway, I
got off, I'm going to say, you got me all
(19:38):
track anyway, So she makes these incredible meals with all
sorts of you know, straight from the farm, pro deuce.
She comes here and since do you're of coffee, it's
right over there, and I suddenly have a jar of folgers,
and guess what, it's not even folgers, as you know,
(19:59):
I think out and I get the horrible coffee. Actually
I like it from Dollar Tree, and it's like powder.
It doesn't even look like little freeze dried chucks. It's powder.
I don't know if she broke down and drank any
or not, because I'm just guessing that they grind their
own beans and you know that whole thing. Now, what
(20:20):
were we saying about the crime? I'm sorry. I was
just telling a story about you, Cheryl McCollum, about how
I was working at the Battered Women Center, and we,
of course, you and I have wildly divergent stories about
how we first met. We were at the new Center
down off Prior and there was a big to do
(20:42):
that we were going to give the battered women their
own cell phone, their secret cell phone, which is so
funny because they were speaking as a shoe box and the
city was going to pay for it, and it was
that joint initiative that I claim it's the first time
I met you, but you have a bunch or colorful description.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yes, we knew each other long before the cell phone
program because I called you and said, would you please
come and speak at the event, because not just were
you behind it, but you help and launch it was
going to be the ticket, you know. And let me
just tell everybody that was the first time in the
United States that that program had ever been done. And
(21:27):
you and I went to Bell South and said, look,
this is what we want to do. And I can't
remember her name, but there was a young vice president
there and said, well, we could probably use phones that
are no longer marketable. I'll never forget that term because
I'd never heard it.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
And she goes, is.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
That the phones you want? And I was like yes,
even though I wasn't really even sure what she was saying.
But they gave us the telephones that they weren't going
to sell anymore, and they were those gigantic bag phones.
So Nancy, when she first saw what they gave us,
she was like, good lord, that could be the weapon if.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
They can't get cellph oeversus like an animal that weather
but it was great. It worked beautifully because they were
not marketable. They couldn't really, But I mean, how can
that be a secret cellphone? Where she gonna hide it?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Well, I mean at that point it shouldn't have been
a secret anyway. I wanted the perpetrator to know. She
could die on that one have won at any time,
no matter where she was.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Well, if the perp knew it, he'd get rid of it.
Well that's the reason we made him non marketable, so
he couldn't No, I mean, he wouldn't make it where
she couldn't use it. Oh, but that's another charge.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, after she's dead, I would have go on the
record none of our women were killed.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Okay, Cheryl back to this. Oh oh go Cheryl back
to the case and chief, can I tell you? I'm
sure you already know. One of the defendants said, well,
I didn't rape her. I just kissed her. I'm like,
what jackass would even admit to kissing a twelve year
old girl bound at the wrist and ankles under bridge
(23:00):
with her pants off? Why would you even just like?
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Oh, the same one that says, oh, well, my buddy
told me to throw her off the bridge to get
rid of the DNA, So I did the same, idiot,
which is the reason we have DNA. I mean, people
just don't understand the technology we have.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Now, okay, can I just ask you one quick thing
to create further controversy. What about Alec Baldwin. He picks
up a gun, he shoots a woman, a mother, She dies,
the child, her child, her only son, is in so
much trauma when he hears his mom has passed away,
(23:40):
he cannot speak. He cannot under a word. It was
either two or three full days he couldn't speak. I
fully believe Alec Baldwin did not know it was a
live round. But we still have the fact that he
pointed a gun and pulled the trigger and kill somebody.
How many people say I didn't need to kill them? Everybody?
(24:02):
How about everybody is ues.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
So there's so many issues there, Nancy, I don't understand,
and I will never understand having live rounds on a
movie set. I will never understand not knowing that, hey,
you shouldn't point a gun at anybody and pull you know,
and pull the trigger.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I mean, this is stuff you should know by four
years old. Well, right now, the new Mexico judge is
planning to rule on a request to dismiss the sole
charge against Baldin. It wouldn't be the first time that
it's been asked to be they've asked to dismiss it.
But this is going to be a problem for the state.
The state did dismiss it in the past, and then
(24:41):
they resurrected it, and that's going to be haunting the prosecution.
The first thing the defense is going to say, as
they should. I mean, if I were a defense attorney,
which thank you Heaven, I'm not, but if I were,
the first thing you were says this is bogus. S
in fact, as the prosecutor, isn't it true? You will
(25:05):
learn the prosecutor dropped all the charges against Alec Baldwin,
yet here we are. That would be the first thing
I would argue that was a huge mistake by the state.
I mean they if they didn't want to go forward,
then drop it. But don't drop it and then resurrect it.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Nancy, if you get in a car and you have
a rack, it doesn't matter if it ain't your car.
If you pick up a real firearm and you pointed
at another person and you put your finger on the
trigger and you pull that trigger. Every single thing that
happens is your responsibility.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Your pressing to the choir. Again, you basically regurgitate what
I've already just said. But yes, Cheryl, you're right. Here
is what I'm gonna do for now on. I'm just
gonna take that sentence and I'm just gonna say a
bunch of crap and then just plug.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
That in a right Cheryl. And you know another thing, Nancy,
here's what I think. You're right, Cheryl, I'm just gonna
plug that in. That's gonna be the crime round up
for now on. You can take next Friday off, Nancy,
I got it.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Don't worry about it. Yes, I've been working for Cheryl
McCollum for so long now I'm thinking it through about
what is going to happen. The armorer Guitaris, the who
should not have been the armorer. For anybody that doesn't know,
an armorer, and there's no reason you should know. An
armorer is a person that takes care of all the weapons,
(26:34):
the ballistics. It could be a sword, it could be
numb chucks. It could be a baseball bat. It could
be a gun, it could be bullets, it could be
those crazy round things. That they throw at each other
in martial arts movies, but the armorer is in charge
of all of that. She has already been convicted. Now
(26:55):
what does that mean a trial strategy wise, that means
that Alec Baldwin is going to be able to blame
her at trial. See, she's already been veig because she's
the bad guy, not me, and that's you know, really
fortuitous for him. But he is the one that pulled
the trigger, so it's really on her to make sure
(27:16):
that there are no live rounds in the gun. However,
he is the one that pulled the trigger, and under
the law, he should be held responsible. I would say,
if I completely objectively looked at this, that it's an
involuntary manslaughter. It's not a murderer. It's not a malice murder.
(27:36):
It's not a felony murder. It's not a voluntary manslaughter.
It is the lowest form of homicide. It is an
involuntary manslaughter. That's what it is. Now, what they're going
to do with it, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I'll just say one more thing about the whole thing.
I've heard outrageous things that famous people require in their
green room, and I'm sure you've heard it too. Did
they demand certain things that are just crazy? Somebody of
his status in Hollywood could have demanded not to have
real firearms with real live ammunition.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
But why would he have even thought to say that?
That mean?
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Well, you know, some folks in Hollywood are so anti gun.
It's amazing to me they hadn't already done it.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Well, if he was anti gun, he wouldn't be shooting
a Western where they shoot each other.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Well, you would think that, But I'm just saying I
heard they were also practicing.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yes, they were practicing with wive rounds. I believe that
day at launch, sometimes before the shooting, they were practicing.
Why are they practicing shooting? But anyway, that said, they
were practice shooting on the set, you know, outside the
set with guns that day. Hey, we bury the lead
for Pete's sake. What about the reality show? I don't
(28:54):
know that I know about it. Okay, Well I'll tell
you about it then, Nick, connect like it was your idea. Okay, Okay,
the Baldwins are about to preview their own family reality show.
Quick google it, Google it. That's goo g l E.
Cheryl McColl on TLC and you've got the wife who
(29:17):
is the pretend Spaniard. And I could play this clip
of her over and over and over and never get
tired of it. His wife grew up, David, didn't she
grow up in Boston? Yes see, he knows all pop culture.
I'm keeping you. The only way to get away with
this is because he's not listening to anything else. She
(29:41):
grew up at Boston, and she spent summers or some
extent a period of time in I believe it was Spain,
developed an accent, a Spanish accent, and reinvented herself and
said she is Spanish. And then she did a cooking
segment on I don't know Good Morning America or the
(30:02):
Today's Show, and she said something like, how do you
say how do you say cucumber? I'm like, oh, okay. Anyway,
that's a whole nother canon worms that has no berry
on the shooting of the rust set, but the announcement
that she he and their seven children are going to
(30:25):
have a reality show on TLC full of quote, love
and laughter, and I guess the usual family hygienks. The timing,
the optic of this is bad because they we still
have the son of the victim suffering while they are
(30:46):
presenting a family reality show where everyone is laughing. You know,
I guess having Christmas or birthdays and all that everything
that this little boy, Alena Hutchins little boy will never have.
He will never have that with his mother. Now, many people,
jaded though they be, state that this reality show is
(31:08):
in fact not a money grab, as some would argue,
but an attempt to humanize Alec Baldwin prior to his trial.
Show him with his children, show him with his wife,
show him in a family setting so regular people like
you and me can relate to him and not convict him.
(31:30):
Some cynical lawyers, like myself think that that's what's happening here.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Well maybe it should be renamed love, Laughter and Gunfire.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Let's tell the truth. If you want a reality show,
make it real. It's very hard to work with you, Cheryl.
If you're not going to stay abreast with the legal
president of the reality show about to launch on ELP,
I'm go go researcher right now. Hold on, can we
talk about you not watching TV? Yeah? Sure, you know,
(32:03):
I never had a chance to watch TV until I
had the twins and they got you know, we would
watch kids show but now John David and I love
to stream murder mysteries and we little known fact, love
to stream martial arts. Oh how fun? Wait? Are you serious?
(32:27):
Because I am very very You can.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
See right now you and John David doing that and
having a blast. But like you already said, the numb
chucks throwing stars, I can totally see it.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
My number one. People ask me all the time what
do you do in spare time? Well, A, I like
to cook, b be with them. But see if it's
got the name Donnie yen on it, I'm in. He
was the star of a new ree creem It man
ip Man. Well, why am I telling you this? You're
not interested in culture? See how I did that? I
(33:06):
refer to martial arts movies as culture.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Okay, education was wasted on me.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
That fancy's going you with two with stars? Wake sure
my parents' money? What do you think is going to
happen next? How long till the DA announces the DP
and the Jocelyn case Jocelyn Nungree case.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I think it'll be soon. I don't think they're gonna
wait on it. I think they're gonna move very quickly.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I think they're gonna wait and that because they've already
started claiming they have to wait for DNA, which is
not true. What do you think maybe two weeks? Three? Oh?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
I don't think it'll be three. I really don't. I
think they're gonna come back and get this thing handled.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Okay, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
You go enjoy your sister and niece and y'all just
have a wonderful time. And how lovely that she is
there to cook those incredible meals.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
But that are all so beautiful. Y'all are going to
have such fun. We really are. It's such a blessing.
Our fairies very very close. It's not the same without
my dad, but that said, we do have each other.
So I'm really really blessed. Can you go go get
some culture? I advise you just hop on to the
(34:19):
TV and stream some Donigane martial arts. Start with ip
men ip as in Pennsylvania. Men Air, Go Air go,
you can get some culture. Girls. Bye, y'all, all right, honey,
love you dearly.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is the Crime Round Up
with Zones Heaven
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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