January 29, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum, talks with Andrea Giovino, author of Divorce from the Mob, podcaster, and former member of the Mob. Andrea discusses life growing up in a large Brooklyn family entrenched in crime to becoming a loan shark in the mob and ultimately facing a RICO indictment. She opens up about her past, her relationship with John Gotti, life after crime, and her mission to help women break free from toxic relationships.
Andrea Giovino is a former mob member and loan shark, author of Divorce from the Mob, and host of the Andrea Giovino Podcast. Once deeply entrenched in organized crime, she was indicted under RICO but refused witness protection, later transforming her life through faith and advocacy.
Listeners can learn more about Andrea on IG @andreagiovino, andher podcast on YouTube @AndreaGiovino
Show Notes:
- (0:00) Welcome back to Zone 7 with Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum
- (0:10) Sheryl introduces Andrea Giovino to the listeners
- (1:00) Andrea gives a brief background of her upbringing and first crime
- (2:30) Life in the Mob
- (4:15) Facing RICO charges
- (5:00) The culture of being in a mob - loyalty and brotherhood
- (10:00) Transition and transformation post mob life
- (10:40) “ I had to dig deep down like emotional surgery to understand who, who I was and why I chose the men I chose and why I chose the things I had chosen.”
- (13:30) Reflecting on relationships
- (20:00) Public validation from Mark Ryder
- (23:30) Bar fight with John Gotti
- (24:00) Reflecting on life’s journey
- (25:00) Writing Divorced From Mob
- (31:45) The real John Gotti
- (36:30) Launching the podcast
- (42:30) ”Everybody's a gangster until a gangster walks in the room.” - J.G.
- Thanks for listening to another episode! If you’re loving the show and want to help grow the show, please head over to Itunes and leave a rating and review!
---
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.
Social Links:
- Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
- Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Andrea Goveno. She is number six of ten children. She's
the author of Divorced from the Mob. She's a podcaster,
a mother, a friend. But y'all, there's more, there's a
lot more. Her life reads like a movie. She committed
(00:31):
her first crime when she was five years old. Tonight,
she's here to tell us her story. Y'all, please help me.
Welcome Andrea Gioveno to Zone seven. Andrea, welcome, and thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh my god, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
This is something I have just been giddy almost knowing
that I was going to be able to talk to
you here, and folks are going to be able to
hear your story. So I've already gave them a little
bit of a tease. But why don't you go ahead
and tell us about that first crown.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So, yeah, I came from a lot of poverty, ten children,
grew up in Brooklyn. My dad was a truck driver
and my mom was to stay at home mom. And
you know, to have ten children, you know, they couldn't
make ends meet, and you know, so she taught us
(01:30):
at a very young age, Like you said, at five,
I was getting up like four or five o'clock in
the morning with my other siblings and running out to
steal like doughnuts or milk or you know, they used
to leave the carts back then in the sixties in
front of the store, so just to have breakfast.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Sure, and people had milk delivered to their house and
left on the stoop. Yeah. So you know, with ten children,
y'all do had to make do.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You had to make do. So it was so that
was very comfortable. You know, when you learn things and
you're a product of your environment at a very young age,
you become comfortable with that because that's all you know.
And in life, you take your lead from your parents.
So normal parents would like not allow a child to steal.
(02:24):
But so I think that you know, when you tell
you child that that's what you're supposed to do, then
the child does it. No, they follow their lead.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Sure, and you know, it almost seems like it was
an instinct for you to keep your mouth shut, like
you just kind of knew that, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yes, it's it's well in that background in the Italian culture,
in Italian even organized crime where I came from, because
basically that whole area was like that. Everything is about loyalty,
everything is about you know, no outsiders could come in. No,
you don't make new friends with new people. It's all
(03:07):
about that little clique of Italians that are in that
criminal world.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Sure. And you know I've always said this to friends
of mine, their Italian Southerners and Italians are very similar
to me. That culture of family comes first. Everything is
centered around food, doesn't matter what the event is. And
then that loyalty. There's no question that you are loyal
(03:36):
to your people.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Oh my god, you have to be loyal and know
your place. You know, it's about that too, And you're
so right. It's about food and family and friends, but
friends that are part.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Of that life, correct, yep, you know. And you know
it's funny because all of us grew up, of course,
downside and Georgia and I had one sister only that
moved away to the north and she married a man
that was a pilot and they moved to Connecticut. And
I had a great uncle that said, y'all, don't worry
(04:14):
about it, we're just infiltrating because it was just going
to be such a different world for her. Of course
it is.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I mean, I live in a different world today, you know,
after everything happened to me in nineteen ninety two with
my arrest. You know, facing I was charged with a RICO.
And if people that people that don't understand what a
RICO is, the best way I could explain it is
if that I got arrested with twenty two organized crime guys,
(04:48):
if they were charged with murder or trafficking or pornography,
whatever I was, I was being charged, they were being
charged with.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
And let me just say for the record, the Feds
don't come at you with a RICO that ain't solid.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Exactly if the Feds I always say this, if the
Feds knock on your door, like I refer that on
my own podcast when I did a show about p Diddy,
when the Feds come, they have a solid case.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's already done. It's already done.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well everything they need to know that you are going
to jail.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
And this is something I want you to really talk
about because when I spoke to you, even on the phone,
and honey, I could have talked to you for five hours.
But that loyalty, that thread is something that in my
world I also understand. And you know, in law enforcement,
there's that brotherhood, there's that commitment, there's that loyalty. And
(05:47):
I'll tell you one story because I think you'll think
it's funny. But we had one officer in our department
that had a horrible wreck and one of the female
officers was tending to him, waiting for the ambulance to
come another car that he hit. The woman was yelling
and screaming, you don't even care anything about me. You're
just working on him. You're not even asking if you know,
(06:08):
if I'm okay. And the female officer turned and she
very in a colorful way, told her to shut her mouth,
that that was a police officer and she was absolutely
going to take gary him first. And she said, and
I don't even like this guy, so well, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
That is so I appreciate that because that's exactly how
it was in my world. That the way you have
to watch each other's back because you're out in the streets,
you know, and you know you can get shot. It's
just as dangerous you're dealing with, you know, hardcore criminals.
(06:50):
That's how the loyalty is and the circle is in
the world that I come from. So it's very much intertwined.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And you know a lot of people say, well, you know,
she was probably connected because she was somebody's girlfriend or
somebody's wife. Honey, you were a straight up loan shark,
you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
When I recently when I did the show, I've done
a lot of documentaries, so the viewers could understand I've
been doing this for over thirty years. Like a little
bit of my background. I was on sixty Minutes. Sixty
Minutes doesn't put you on their show. They're one of
(07:31):
the most recognized news teams in this country that's got
such a reputable background. You know, they vet you, and
so I did sixty Minutes. I was, you know, did
Barbara Walters on the view. I've done many, many documentaries,
and the most recent documentary that I did was Get
(07:52):
Gotti on Netflix, which was number one in forty four
countries for like eight weeks.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Forty four countries.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Come on many full country.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I tell you something, Diovino, let's just vet you real quick.
You're in a freaking Rico indictment exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
So another thing what I'm getting at is that you
don't get on a show like Netflix, which have some
of the best attorneys in the world, because it's all
over the world that they don't vet you and see
what you're back. They go back, they talk to you,
the prosecutors, they get the court records, the attorneys. It's
like a whole vetting process. So when people say, well, no,
(08:34):
she was somebody's girlfriend of somebody's wife, No I wasn't
arrested for that. I was arrested because I was in
the streets. Not to brag about that or not to
make that the highlight of it, because that's all I
knew was how to make money in the streets. And
that's what my story was so unique, because here she
(08:56):
is running with all these heavy hitters of high level
organized crime guys, and she's holding her own.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
One hundred percent. And as a criminologist, you have information
that I need. I need to be able to understand
your world if I'm going to stop the next person.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Right, And I always say, when law enforcement of any
type of law enforcement, whether it would be DEA, ATF,
whatever it is, whatever agency it is, and they come
in and make an arrest, you bet that criminal has
done that crime a thousand times. Yeah, you know, that's
(09:39):
the first arrest, But that criminal has been on the
street a long time.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
That's right, that's right, no question, it's a situation for me,
the way you lay everything out, your honesty, like you've
told me several times, ask me anything, you have no
reason to lie. That reminds me of John Gotti. He
flat said, I don't ever lie because I don't fear
(10:05):
anybody exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I don't have to lie. You know, that was that
was my background. That was who I was. That is
not who I am today. And you know I've said
I've changed my life totally. That was my downfall in
nineteen ninety two with four kids, and you know, woke
me up that I lost custody of one of my
(10:28):
children because of it. And then you know, facing like
ten years in prison, so you know, I was just like, wow,
how did this all happen to me? And then I
got like a lot of therapy and I had to
dig deep down, like emotional surgery to understand who who
(10:49):
I was and why I chose the men I chose,
and why I chose the things I had chosen because
you know, not having an education, you know, I have
a seventh grade education, and then always feeling inferior to
people that did have an education, and I felt like
(11:11):
I couldn't fit in. I didn't know their language. I
didn't know how to speak on the level that they
were speaking about kids that went to college and you know,
educated themselves. I was a street kid. I was a
tough street kid, and that's who I was comfortable with.
So those were the guys I was picking to be around.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
But you weren't encouraged to get an education. You were
encouraged to learn how to cook and clean and a
big wife.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, that's it. You know, they didn't believe in that.
They didn't believe in education.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Sure, and if you are, you know, in a family
where your mom's like, hey, strive for this, try to
you know, get you a man that's in organized crime
because he's going to make a good living. Yes, I
understand that you're going to make him. You're not probably
going to meet the guy from Wall Street. That's not
where you're hanging out.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
No, that's not where I'm hanging out. That's not where
I'm comfortable. That's not like what I want to be around.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
And let's be honest, I mean, just woman to woman,
you're around good looking men that have money in their pocket,
that know how to protect you, that want to show
you off. That ain't a bad life either.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
No, it's very at the time, it's a very glamorous,
glamorous lifestyle. And street guys because the money comes in
very fast and they spend a lot. They're big spenders. Now,
the guy that goes to work, he's not going to
blow his money like that because he's working hard for it.
So the street guy is going to blow his money
(12:46):
because he knows he's going to go on the street
and make more.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Especially in the nineteen eighties, Baby come Home.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yes, yes, you didn't have all of the technology that
they have today to make arrests, you know. And then
once you know, in New York one Sammy Gravano, you know,
which was the undervorce in the Gambiano crime family, informed
(13:14):
became an informer that opened up the doors. I always
say that opened up the gates heaven that everybody after that,
everybody started being a government witness, Like everybody would get
arrested in like you arrest six guys, four out of
the six are gonna flip.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And until Sammy the Bull, I mean, he was the
highest ranking person that started to swim as they say, yes, well,
you know, I gotta say this to you because when
you said a little while ago that you transformed your life.
I don't want to just gloss over that, because not
(13:49):
only did you do that, but you've been able to
maintain that. And in my head sometimes I think about
you and you went from loan sharken to raising money
for your church.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And I'm you know, very very involved in the Catholic Church.
I give back a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
But think about that. I mean, that's an snl skit.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Like not like, yes, I believe me, Am I priest,
show me sure, Like you know, they know my background,
they know who I am, and you know it's I
guess today, I am the person that God intended me
to be. This is who I'm supposed to be. I
(14:37):
help a lot of struggling women. I help a lot
of abused women. I had somebody here last night that
came to talk to me to my home that's been
getting you know, emotionally, verbally abused, just to you know,
he's an addict. And long story short, I try to
give my time back from the knowledge that I've acquired
(14:58):
through the years of what's sick and what healthy is.
And you know, a sick relationship, you know, if you
hang out with sick people, you're going to get sick.
If you hang out with healthy people, your brain will
get healthier. And that's the best way I could put it.
And with red flags, you know, like I explained to
this young woman that here you are a beautiful, educated woman,
(15:22):
you're a teacher, and you're putting up with this low
life talking down to you. The first time. You should
have done done. I'm done with you. And women a
lot of women think that, you know, they stay in
these types of relationships, and it could be any culture,
any background, it doesn't matter. You have that type of
(15:44):
abuse that goes on everywhere.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I was going to say, every culture does put up
with it, yes.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
And you know, and then that like the guys that
I hung out with murderers, I mean, after they get
what they want. The cheaters, they cheat on their wife.
They'll cheat on their girlfriend when a man commits a murder,
like I'll never forget. One of the guys said to
me one time, if you're gonna compare a murder to cheating,
(16:12):
he goes, look at the comparison to us. Cheating is
making love. That's normal, Like it's no big deal. It's
like playing tennis. That's how they look at it. It's
not a big deal to them.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
You sad, And as a young girl watched Crazy Joe Gallo,
you understood, Hey, this is a powerful guy. He's a
rich guy. He's a mover, he's a shaker. You felt
more comfortable in that world, even knowing what they were
capable of.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yes, because that's what I was taught.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Of course, of course.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
That's basically what I was taught. That's all I knew.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
And there's women that are taught to stay.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Right, there's women that are taught to stay and to
give these types of men the respect and power and
praise and cater to them.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
So growing up, I heard that the Mafia guys would
take their girlfriends out Friday night and Saturday night, they
would take their wives out.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
One of the interviews I heard you say is that
y'all all went out as groups on Tuesday and Thursdays.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Because I was standing on my own, I wasn't a
girlfriend at the correct. I was a businesswoman.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yep. So Sunday I figured everybody goes to church. So
my question for you is what does the Mafia do
on Mondays?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
They go right back to do this same get up
get dressed and go out and get it in the
streets and do their crimes. Okay, that's basically what they do.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Love it because you know you've been on Get Gottie,
Gotdi and Son Mafia Killer. But you never change who
you are. You never change how you talk about the
people in your life. You still have great affection for
many of them, as you should. You talk about it
as like anybody would talk about their senior prom It's
(18:10):
part of you.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
It's part of my life. It's so many years of
what I've experienced.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
You know, were you hesitant at all to do these shows?
Thinking I don't want to give any of the secrets.
I don't want to break the code entirely. I don't
want to do anything that they would think is disrespectful.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
No, because at the time, well, when when I got arrested,
that was my bottom and I had had like I
had had enough with the whole life and all, and
I felt like I needed to be true to myself.
I needed to heal within myself. I needed to tell
my story, not everybody else but me. I think that
(18:51):
with that it was working on me, working on myself.
So it wasn't like I was telling any of their business.
I was telling my story of what happened to me.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
And see, I thought, even listening to you too, you
had an opportunity to talk about your friend. They had
a lot of people on those shows that never worked
with Gotti. What and his friend was involved in another family.
They were just a mafioso telling what they knew about
the general understanding. But you talked about a man that
(19:22):
you met at a bar with your sister.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You know when I'm when I and it's it's funny
because just this past summer, well actually I think it
was this September that just passed. The person that I met,
John Gotti through Mock Ryder just passed away. And I
was friends with him through the years. He had gotten
life in prison. He was up in alan Wood Federal Prison,
(19:49):
not too far from where I lived, about two hours,
so I made it a point I used to go
visit him a couple of times a year. You realize,
like they live such a fast life, and then is
it all worth it? Because he lost his whole life
living in prison like he was there thirty seven years.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Well, let's talk about Mark Ryder a minute, because he
also validated you. I mean I think that's one of
the greatest acts of friendship that I've heard, is that
he called publicly to say, of course she knew John
Gotti and John Gotty knew her. Are you crazy?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And you know you know you're in law enforcement. It's
that even he didn't care he was incarcerated. He could
have gotten in trouble for even being on a video
that I'm doing an interview right now and I was
on a podcast and I get a call from an inmate.
They're not allowed to do that. So he went on
(20:50):
a limb. He went out on a limb to do that,
to say, what, of course you knew John Gotti. You
were with me, you met him with me, you were
out with us all the time, you knew everybody.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
He was gonna have your back. Yes, yes, because and
he's that old school, old school Mark Rider and Jean
Gotti and John Gottie.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Anthony Rappino, John, all of them them.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yes, they never cooperated. And people forget John Gotti went
to prison for a couple of years on a murder
charge in the seventies. Never said a.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Word, no, no, never said a word. But then you
have these other ones. Now, if you know all these.
I'm right now the only female podcaster my podcast, Andrew
Giudino podcast. I am the only female podcaster from organized
(21:52):
crime that's out there that the other podcasters that do
the stuff that I talk about Italian organized crime all
government informers. You don't have anybody out there that's talking
about this stuff that isn't a government informer.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And you didn't just get a reco charge. You got
a RICO charge. You kept your mouth shut. They offered
you witness protection.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I didn't go.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
You didn't go.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I didn't go. You know why I didn't go because
I had so much faith. Even back then, I was
always connected to church always. I might not have followed it,
but I was connected to it. And I just said,
we said, the guy upstairs knows when I'm gonna die.
I'm not going to be afraid. I'm just not afraid.
(22:43):
I'm not that kind of person to be afraid.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And I won't be able to understand though, Andrea, there
was a contract out on.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Oh yeah, legitimate contract.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
No, no, legit absolutely contract.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
They said she We're going to kill her. People went
to prison for it. They went to prison for that.
And here I am five six one hundred and twenty
five pounds back. Not afraid of anyone, no one. And
people would say when I've done these shows, are you No,
I'm not afraid. Why. I don't know. I'm just not.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
You've never been afraid. I've never been afraid.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I'm not going to have someone take that much of me.
I'm not gonna have just because he's a man and
I'm a woman who he's going to take that much
of me to make me be afraid. I'm not that
kind of person. I'll fight to the end. I'll fight
to the end.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
And before you were a member of the PTA, honey,
you did just that. You got into a bar fight
because somebody crossed one of your people.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yes, absolutely, straight.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Up bar fight, y'all. I'm not talking about pushing and shoven.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
No talk about with John Gotty sitting there.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
With John Gotti sitting there.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yes, with John Gotty sitting there.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Andrea, I gotta ask you. I gotta ask you this question.
Is there times where maybe you're driving to church, or
you're shopping, or you're with your grandchildren, do you ever
say how did I get here from there?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I do, and I have thought that I have like
very strong faith. I just think that I follow that
inner voice of what I'm supposed to do. And I
live alone, and I am as much as I'm so outgoing,
I have a very close circle. I don't get close
(24:32):
to people. I'm just close to my family, my kids,
my grandkids. That's it. I'm not really I don't let
anybody in my circle, you know, and my church, the
people from my church that you know, I feel I
feel safe with. I don't trust many people. You know,
when they say you're blessed if you get one good
(24:55):
friend in a lifetime, that is very true, because people
turn on you. People get envious, people get jealous. I mean,
even within my own family, the more successful I had become,
the more jealous they become. You know.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
That's why this podcast is called Zone seven. Atlanta has
six police owns. So when we would get together after
shifts and things like that, we couldn't come over the radio.
This was before cell phones and pagers, and we couldn't say, Hey, everybody,
we're going to go to the bar tonight. So we
would say we're going to five nine at Zone seven,
(25:30):
and then that kind of bled into this. There's only
a few people that I can truly count on truly trust,
actually want the best for me, are going to help
me be successful, going to kind of keep me out
of trouble, that kind of thing. And you're right, it's
a small circle.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
It's a small circle, and you have to keep your
circle small.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yep, yep. So when you decided to write your book
so that you can inspire other peoplearticularly women, to transform
their life, what was the first thing you thought about
putting on paper?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
How I got inspired to write my book. I was
in therapy and my therapist had said to me, write
down everything of your feelings from A to Z, from
what you can remember from your childhood and where you're
at now. So I started writing down things and I
couldn't believe when I was writing down so much trauma
I had experienced and went through as a child, like,
(26:31):
just so much trauma. And I decided, then when I
started writing all these notes down, I should write a book.
And then when I would say that, people very close
to me, even family members, oh, you're never going to
(26:52):
get a book out there. You have no education, you're
not a writer. Like the more you tell me I'm
not going to do it, the more I'll do it.
And then I had a big pause. Publisher picked me up.
So I think I wanted to write. I wanted to
write a book more so, believe it or not, for
women to understand, to maybe not go through what I
(27:17):
went through by choosing the bad boy, by choosing the
guy because he has money, you know, that lures you
in with the love bombing and all of that, and
then they change and then they're not the person they are,
Like stay away from the criminal, like try to stay
with the good guy. I wanted women to understand, because,
(27:39):
like I said, it's all cultures, not just the Italian
culture that there's crime in and and women don't realize
it until it's too late that you could lose your children,
you know, custody like which I did. I was custody
of one of my children and have the heartache of
(28:01):
you know, going to prison and you know, losing your
children that way, just by being associated with someone that
like that. So that's basically really why I wanted to
write a book.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Now, you mentioned a term love bomb that was new
to me. I have only recently heard that, and my
friend doctor Angie Arnold used it just in a sentence
like you just did, and I said, ooh, that sounds fabulous, right, Well, because.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
What they do, it's very common. Like most of these
men are sociopath narcissistic men that have no conscience. So
you know they'll fall in love with you because of
what you look like. I was very you know. You know,
you look back on my pictures or whatever, young beautiful girl,
and what happens is that the love bombing stage. Every
(28:51):
woman wants that because they're showering you with gifts, You're
going on a vacation. You know, they're telling you how
much they love you. And for me, because I didn't
get that love as a child, I never had anyone
hold me and tell me, oh, I love you, because
we would just pushed aside. I craved that. I wanted that.
(29:13):
I was like like, oh my god, you know he
loves me, Like that's what I wanted, which I never had.
So you just get caught up in that. But like now,
like with all the knowledge I've acquired and worked on
myself and all I could see the red flags a
mile away, you know, like the bullshit and all.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
That sure and the line and the cheating in the
Canalvin and the colony.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, yeah, because when a guy comes in whether he
could be a criminal or like a legit guy. And
he starts doing that with the you know, love bombing
stage where the gifts to this, to that. That's not
a good guy because he he shouldn't be doing that.
He should be courting you in a normal manner, not
buying you like a possession.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Right. Well, it was such a powerful thing that you
said earlier. If you're with sick people, you're gonna get sick.
I mean, it's the same thing if you're married to
somebody who is conting you, deceiving you, mistreating you. The
flowers in the jewelry, they don't mean anything.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
They don't mean nothing. Every time I used to get gifts,
I used to call them guilt gifts because my husband
probably did something really bad. That's basically why he was
giving them. And even now my brother, one of my brothers,
lives like maybe two three miles away. I haven't talked
to him in years. This he was, you know, did
about nine murders, pleaded out to nine murders. The government
(30:43):
let him out, but came out of prison after cooperating
nine murders, and him and my ex husband and they're
still two sick people together. They might like make society
think that they're different, but they're not. That mindset, the
(31:05):
mindset of I was just saying this to somebody. If
the audience could understand when someone commits a murder, this
is not normal, and then they can go out and
eat a steak and go out and live their life
and they have no remorse over it.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
That's associopath and you have to protect yourself from that
person mentally for your own health.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
So I sit exactly so I stay away from them.
I don't engage, I don't go to anything. I don't
see him. I haven't seen him in years, and he
lives a couple of miles away. I haven't bothered with
him in years. I want no part of him, nothing,
not him or my ex.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
So let's do this. Let's talk specifically about John Gottie.
Tell us about the person you knew.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You know a lot of people like say, oh, you
know what John was really about, and they made movies
about him and stuff like that. The John I knew
because I knew him in a setting of fun of
being out in the club's restaurants having a drink music.
I didn't see that vicious side of him. I did
(32:19):
not see that because I saw the fun part of John. Gentlemen.
I always say, you know, if men cursed, John would
be the first one to say, Hey, you got a
lady sitting here, mean while my mouth was worse than theirs.
So that but that's the best way I could explain it.
(32:41):
So if I was in a restaurant with girlfriends in
Manhattan and John walked in with a couple of guys,
or any of these guys like this, if you know them,
they'll say to the way to give me the check,
I'm paying the check. That's how they are.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
And you know, again, growing up hearing about I was
in high school and college, and all I understood was
everybody in the neighborhood loved him. There wasn't a sex
offender in that neighborhood. There wasn't a rapist in that neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
They take care of the neighborhood. They take care of their.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Own exactly and too exactly right. And I think again,
like law enforcement, I understand that you know, when a
police officer shot, everybody in the surrounding counties and agencies
are coming for the funeral. Everybody around the United States
is coming, and it's the same.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I'll tell you a story. What happened. I was in
my twenties. I was twenty five at the time. I'll
never forget. I was buying back then. If you remember,
you could buy a house with cash. They didn't have
They didn't check where your cash came from. I was
buying a house in Queens and the house was two
(33:53):
hundred and sixty thousand, and I went to contract and
I put sixty thousand down a contract of cash. I
decided then about a month later, I didn't want that
house because I didn't want to stay in Queen's. I
wanted to move back to Brooklyn. And this is a
tough Irish guy that I was buying the house from.
(34:14):
He owned a couple of bars in Manhattan along Seventh Avenue.
His name was Patty and Patrick Marin. I'll never forget.
I tell him I want to get out of it. Really.
He says, well, you're not getting the money back. I said,
what do you mean, I'm not getting the money back.
You're not getting the money back. He wouldn't give me
the money back. Long story short, I said, you're really
sure you want to go down that road? Yeah, you're
(34:35):
not getting the money back. Okay. I go to the
club where all the guys I know hang out, and
they go like this, and I don't want to mention
too many names, but some people are still alive. I
tell them the story. They said, tell me everything about
the guy. I said, Well, he owns this bar. He's
(34:55):
got a son that works at the bar. Well, the
bar's in New York. At four eight four am. They wait,
They get the son. His name is the son name
was named Patty. Four guys get him coming out of
the bar. They said, are you Patty Mary? Yeah, your
father's Patrick Marrin. They get him in the car. They
put a gun to his head. Take me to your
(35:17):
father's house. Knock on the father's door. You don't give
me f and money right now, a bag of sixty thousand.
I don't want a scent missed. I'm gonna put a
bullet in your son's head right here, right now. I
got every cent back the next morning, I guarantee you
did every cent. Wait, I say, go to the club.
What do I owe you? You owe us nothing. We
(35:38):
take care of our own nothing. They didn't take a cent.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
There you go, because Patty thought he was, you know,
a real tough guy.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Hey, didn't know anything about me, of where I came from,
who I was. I was buying his house. He just
went to He just tried to shake down the wrong person.
That's what happened. He shook down the royal figure. Oh
she's a kid whatever, you know. No, it didn't happen
like that. I kept saying, are you sure you want
to do this? You're not. He was a tough old
(36:09):
Irish guy. You're not getting a sent back. But buh,
buh buh, I got it back. They got it back
to right the way that they know how to fight.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Honey. They ain't nothing to add to that story. It's perfection.
To me. That's how the real world should work. You
don't wrong somebody, and if you do, their people should
knock on your door. Listen. I have heard your podcast,
tell everybody about it.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
So my podcast is basically about crime, all the crimes
that and about people. And I have guests on that
have done a lot of prison time, some of them
thirty years or more and have really true, you know,
hardcore stories and all facts. So if you love crime,
(36:56):
the podcast is basically all about that. It's about people
that are getting out of prison that I try to
bring on the show. I've had correctional offices that I've
met up at prisons that have retired that come on
my show. So the podcast is growing. I wasn't How
I got to do the podcast was after the Get Godie.
(37:18):
People were asking me and you know, you should do
a podcast, and that's how it got started. And it's
really been doing very well. So the podcast is just
my name Andrea giavino one on YouTube and if you
want to hear anything about crime, just tune in. And
I always answer when people leave me messages. I always
(37:40):
for the subscribers, I always answer them back.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Always unbelievable. Well, it is an outstanding podcast, I'm telling you.
And to get the stories that you're getting on tape,
I think is just part of American history and it's
an important part. I've always said and I'm going to
say it again. I think the Smithsonian should have an
entire building to true crime and the way it tells
(38:07):
the story of America.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, and what it is also women like
that that genre. Even when I started my podcast, I
got a lot of I still had to fight. I
got a lot of negative feedback from the men because
they just can't handle a woman like me, you know,
(38:32):
coming into their world now doing a podcast from big podcasters,
you know, you know which I'll put out this, Sammy Gravano,
Michael Francis. You know, they all wanted to knock me
because they were a little bit threatened. Oh she's coming
into this world now. And I just kept going and going,
and I continue to go, and I'm not going to
(38:54):
have them stop me. My stories are real. The people
I have on a vouch for me. I had a guy,
George Mortorano did thirty three years, he did two years
incarcerated with John Gotti, and just so happened, John Gotty
had talked about me when he was incarcerated, about just
when we were on the streets. So people vouched for me,
(39:16):
validated me, and these other guys try to knock me.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Well, I will say this. I heard one person saying
I never heard of her. Okay, Well let me just
respond to that the only way that I know how.
In my world, I can tell you the top drug
dealers in Atlanta. I can also tell you the street
(39:41):
level folks. That's my job to know who you are.
There is no way a beautiful, blondheaded Bombshelle is running
any kind of loan, sharken that he didn't hear about.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
That exactly exactly? How do you not know that?
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Ain't no way you don't know it. So but listen,
I appreciate you. I have enjoyed all of your stories,
all of your information. I appreciate your honesty and your
willingness to come and talk to us.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored that you,
in the background that you come from, want to interview
me because I love it. I think it's great. I
think it's a growth for you to understand who we are.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Listen, you said something that not only did I agree
with it, but I thought, Lord, everybody needs to hear it.
When people were saying, oh John God, he got took
down because he was on Time magazine, you said that
didn't happen that way. You said, law enforcement brought him
down and credit should be given. They took their time.
It's the same reason we know who you are. They
(40:52):
took their time and got you, and.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I feel that way in the bottom that's what they did.
They did that job, I said, and they did it
damn well.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
And you know, there's no reason to be disrespectful on
either side. You have gifts and you have things you
can teach law enforcement and they need to hear it,
just like you know the movie like Catch Me if
you can, you need to hear from Avang Gale you do.
There's things we don't know. We are always behind.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
You are always behind. You don't know because you don't
know the criminal mind, and they wait for people to
cooperate to tell them. But if you have a step
ahead of that and understand how the criminal mind works,
you'd be ten steps ahead.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
That's right. There's only a couple of things where this
is not the case, and like child molesters would be one.
But the way I try to do my job is
you remember the old cartoon with the sheep dog and
the fox trying to get the chickens or sheep or whatever. Okay,
And at the end of the day they would clock
out and say, okay, see tomorrow. I feel like you know,
(41:56):
that drug dealer's got a job, that prostitute's got a job, awhile,
and you know I'm not gonna be disrespectful to theirs,
and you know see tomorrow. You know That's the way
I see it.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
You have to put yourself into that criminal mind of
what's gonna happen next, what are they gonna do next,
so you don't have to wait to get an arrest
that they might beat the case. You want to win
your case.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
That's right, that's right. Well, I appreciate you, and this
was fabulous and I hope we get to talk again,
of course.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
And anything you ever need to ask or whatever, you
have my number to call me. It was a pleasure
talking to you.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Hey, and if you're ever in New York, contact me.
You could come on the show.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Oh, count on that you That would be fantastic. Thank you,
Thank you so much, y'all. I'm going to end Zone
seven the way that I always do with a quote,
everybody's a gangster until a gangster walks in the room,
John Gottie. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is Own seven.
Andrea Goveno. She is number six of ten children. She's
the author of Divorced from the Mob. She's a podcaster,
a mother, a friend. But y'all, there's more, there's a
lot more. Her life reads like a movie. She committed
(00:31):
her first crime when she was five years old. Tonight,
she's here to tell us her story. Y'all, please help me.
Welcome Andrea Gioveno to Zone seven. Andrea, welcome, and thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh my god, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
This is something I have just been giddy almost knowing
that I was going to be able to talk to
you here, and folks are going to be able to
hear your story. So I've already gave them a little
bit of a tease. But why don't you go ahead
and tell us about that first crown.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So, yeah, I came from a lot of poverty, ten children,
grew up in Brooklyn. My dad was a truck driver
and my mom was to stay at home mom. And
you know, to have ten children, you know, they couldn't
make ends meet, and you know, so she taught us
(01:30):
at a very young age, Like you said, at five,
I was getting up like four or five o'clock in
the morning with my other siblings and running out to
steal like doughnuts or milk or you know, they used
to leave the carts back then in the sixties in
front of the store, so just to have breakfast.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Sure, and people had milk delivered to their house and
left on the stoop. Yeah. So you know, with ten children,
y'all do had to make do.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You had to make do. So it was so that
was very comfortable. You know, when you learn things and
you're a product of your environment at a very young age,
you become comfortable with that because that's all you know.
And in life, you take your lead from your parents.
So normal parents would like not allow a child to steal.
(02:24):
But so I think that you know, when you tell
you child that that's what you're supposed to do, then
the child does it. No, they follow their lead.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Sure, and you know, it almost seems like it was
an instinct for you to keep your mouth shut, like
you just kind of knew that, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yes, it's it's well in that background in the Italian culture,
in Italian even organized crime where I came from, because
basically that whole area was like that. Everything is about loyalty,
everything is about you know, no outsiders could come in. No,
you don't make new friends with new people. It's all
(03:07):
about that little clique of Italians that are in that
criminal world.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Sure. And you know I've always said this to friends
of mine, their Italian Southerners and Italians are very similar
to me. That culture of family comes first. Everything is
centered around food, doesn't matter what the event is. And
then that loyalty. There's no question that you are loyal
(03:36):
to your people.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Oh my god, you have to be loyal and know
your place. You know, it's about that too, And you're
so right. It's about food and family and friends, but
friends that are part.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Of that life, correct, yep, you know. And you know
it's funny because all of us grew up, of course,
downside and Georgia and I had one sister only that
moved away to the north and she married a man
that was a pilot and they moved to Connecticut. And
I had a great uncle that said, y'all, don't worry
(04:14):
about it, we're just infiltrating because it was just going
to be such a different world for her. Of course
it is.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I mean, I live in a different world today, you know,
after everything happened to me in nineteen ninety two with
my arrest. You know, facing I was charged with a RICO.
And if people that people that don't understand what a
RICO is, the best way I could explain it is
if that I got arrested with twenty two organized crime guys,
(04:48):
if they were charged with murder or trafficking or pornography,
whatever I was, I was being charged, they were being
charged with.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
And let me just say for the record, the Feds
don't come at you with a RICO that ain't solid.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Exactly if the Feds I always say this, if the
Feds knock on your door, like I refer that on
my own podcast when I did a show about p Diddy,
when the Feds come, they have a solid case.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's already done. It's already done.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well everything they need to know that you are going
to jail.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
And this is something I want you to really talk
about because when I spoke to you, even on the phone,
and honey, I could have talked to you for five hours.
But that loyalty, that thread is something that in my
world I also understand. And you know, in law enforcement,
there's that brotherhood, there's that commitment, there's that loyalty. And
(05:47):
I'll tell you one story because I think you'll think
it's funny. But we had one officer in our department
that had a horrible wreck and one of the female
officers was tending to him, waiting for the ambulance to
come another car that he hit. The woman was yelling
and screaming, you don't even care anything about me. You're
just working on him. You're not even asking if you know,
(06:08):
if I'm okay. And the female officer turned and she
very in a colorful way, told her to shut her mouth,
that that was a police officer and she was absolutely
going to take gary him first. And she said, and
I don't even like this guy, so well, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
That is so I appreciate that because that's exactly how
it was in my world. That the way you have
to watch each other's back because you're out in the streets,
you know, and you know you can get shot. It's
just as dangerous you're dealing with, you know, hardcore criminals.
(06:50):
That's how the loyalty is and the circle is in
the world that I come from. So it's very much intertwined.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And you know a lot of people say, well, you know,
she was probably connected because she was somebody's girlfriend or
somebody's wife. Honey, you were a straight up loan shark,
you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
When I recently when I did the show, I've done
a lot of documentaries, so the viewers could understand I've
been doing this for over thirty years. Like a little
bit of my background. I was on sixty Minutes. Sixty
Minutes doesn't put you on their show. They're one of
(07:31):
the most recognized news teams in this country that's got
such a reputable background. You know, they vet you, and
so I did sixty Minutes. I was, you know, did
Barbara Walters on the view. I've done many, many documentaries,
and the most recent documentary that I did was Get
(07:52):
Gotti on Netflix, which was number one in forty four
countries for like eight weeks.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Forty four countries.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Come on many full country.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I tell you something, Diovino, let's just vet you real quick.
You're in a freaking Rico indictment exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
So another thing what I'm getting at is that you
don't get on a show like Netflix, which have some
of the best attorneys in the world, because it's all
over the world that they don't vet you and see
what you're back. They go back, they talk to you,
the prosecutors, they get the court records, the attorneys. It's
like a whole vetting process. So when people say, well, no,
(08:34):
she was somebody's girlfriend of somebody's wife, No I wasn't
arrested for that. I was arrested because I was in
the streets. Not to brag about that or not to
make that the highlight of it, because that's all I
knew was how to make money in the streets. And
that's what my story was so unique, because here she
(08:56):
is running with all these heavy hitters of high level
organized crime guys, and she's holding her own.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
One hundred percent. And as a criminologist, you have information
that I need. I need to be able to understand
your world if I'm going to stop the next person.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Right, And I always say, when law enforcement of any
type of law enforcement, whether it would be DEA, ATF,
whatever it is, whatever agency it is, and they come
in and make an arrest, you bet that criminal has
done that crime a thousand times. Yeah, you know, that's
(09:39):
the first arrest, But that criminal has been on the
street a long time.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
That's right, that's right, no question, it's a situation for me,
the way you lay everything out, your honesty, like you've
told me several times, ask me anything, you have no
reason to lie. That reminds me of John Gotti. He
flat said, I don't ever lie because I don't fear
(10:05):
anybody exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I don't have to lie. You know, that was that
was my background. That was who I was. That is
not who I am today. And you know I've said
I've changed my life totally. That was my downfall in
nineteen ninety two with four kids, and you know, woke
me up that I lost custody of one of my
(10:28):
children because of it. And then you know, facing like
ten years in prison, so you know, I was just like, wow,
how did this all happen to me? And then I
got like a lot of therapy and I had to
dig deep down, like emotional surgery to understand who who
(10:49):
I was and why I chose the men I chose,
and why I chose the things I had chosen because
you know, not having an education, you know, I have
a seventh grade education, and then always feeling inferior to
people that did have an education, and I felt like
(11:11):
I couldn't fit in. I didn't know their language. I
didn't know how to speak on the level that they
were speaking about kids that went to college and you know,
educated themselves. I was a street kid. I was a
tough street kid, and that's who I was comfortable with.
So those were the guys I was picking to be around.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
But you weren't encouraged to get an education. You were
encouraged to learn how to cook and clean and a
big wife.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, that's it. You know, they didn't believe in that.
They didn't believe in education.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Sure, and if you are, you know, in a family
where your mom's like, hey, strive for this, try to
you know, get you a man that's in organized crime
because he's going to make a good living. Yes, I
understand that you're going to make him. You're not probably
going to meet the guy from Wall Street. That's not
where you're hanging out.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
No, that's not where I'm hanging out. That's not where
I'm comfortable. That's not like what I want to be around.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
And let's be honest, I mean, just woman to woman,
you're around good looking men that have money in their pocket,
that know how to protect you, that want to show
you off. That ain't a bad life either.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
No, it's very at the time, it's a very glamorous,
glamorous lifestyle. And street guys because the money comes in
very fast and they spend a lot. They're big spenders. Now,
the guy that goes to work, he's not going to
blow his money like that because he's working hard for it.
So the street guy is going to blow his money
(12:46):
because he knows he's going to go on the street
and make more.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Especially in the nineteen eighties, Baby come Home.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yes, yes, you didn't have all of the technology that
they have today to make arrests, you know. And then
once you know, in New York one Sammy Gravano, you know,
which was the undervorce in the Gambiano crime family, informed
(13:14):
became an informer that opened up the doors. I always
say that opened up the gates heaven that everybody after that,
everybody started being a government witness, Like everybody would get
arrested in like you arrest six guys, four out of
the six are gonna flip.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And until Sammy the Bull, I mean, he was the
highest ranking person that started to swim as they say, yes, well,
you know, I gotta say this to you because when
you said a little while ago that you transformed your life.
I don't want to just gloss over that, because not
(13:49):
only did you do that, but you've been able to
maintain that. And in my head sometimes I think about
you and you went from loan sharken to raising money
for your church.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And I'm you know, very very involved in the Catholic Church.
I give back a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
But think about that. I mean, that's an snl skit.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Like not like, yes, I believe me, Am I priest,
show me sure, Like you know, they know my background,
they know who I am, and you know it's I
guess today, I am the person that God intended me
to be. This is who I'm supposed to be. I
(14:37):
help a lot of struggling women. I help a lot
of abused women. I had somebody here last night that
came to talk to me to my home that's been
getting you know, emotionally, verbally abused, just to you know,
he's an addict. And long story short, I try to
give my time back from the knowledge that I've acquired
(14:58):
through the years of what's sick and what healthy is.
And you know, a sick relationship, you know, if you
hang out with sick people, you're going to get sick.
If you hang out with healthy people, your brain will
get healthier. And that's the best way I could put it.
And with red flags, you know, like I explained to
this young woman that here you are a beautiful, educated woman,
(15:22):
you're a teacher, and you're putting up with this low
life talking down to you. The first time. You should
have done done. I'm done with you. And women a
lot of women think that, you know, they stay in
these types of relationships, and it could be any culture,
any background, it doesn't matter. You have that type of
(15:44):
abuse that goes on everywhere.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I was going to say, every culture does put up
with it, yes.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
And you know, and then that like the guys that
I hung out with murderers, I mean, after they get
what they want. The cheaters, they cheat on their wife.
They'll cheat on their girlfriend when a man commits a murder,
like I'll never forget. One of the guys said to
me one time, if you're gonna compare a murder to cheating,
(16:12):
he goes, look at the comparison to us. Cheating is
making love. That's normal, Like it's no big deal. It's
like playing tennis. That's how they look at it. It's
not a big deal to them.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
You sad, And as a young girl watched Crazy Joe Gallo,
you understood, Hey, this is a powerful guy. He's a
rich guy. He's a mover, he's a shaker. You felt
more comfortable in that world, even knowing what they were
capable of.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yes, because that's what I was taught.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Of course, of course.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
That's basically what I was taught. That's all I knew.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
And there's women that are taught to stay.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Right, there's women that are taught to stay and to
give these types of men the respect and power and
praise and cater to them.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
So growing up, I heard that the Mafia guys would
take their girlfriends out Friday night and Saturday night, they
would take their wives out.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
One of the interviews I heard you say is that
y'all all went out as groups on Tuesday and Thursdays.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Because I was standing on my own, I wasn't a
girlfriend at the correct. I was a businesswoman.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yep. So Sunday I figured everybody goes to church. So
my question for you is what does the Mafia do
on Mondays?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
They go right back to do this same get up
get dressed and go out and get it in the
streets and do their crimes. Okay, that's basically what they do.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Love it because you know you've been on Get Gottie,
Gotdi and Son Mafia Killer. But you never change who
you are. You never change how you talk about the
people in your life. You still have great affection for
many of them, as you should. You talk about it
as like anybody would talk about their senior prom It's
(18:10):
part of you.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
It's part of my life. It's so many years of
what I've experienced.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
You know, were you hesitant at all to do these shows?
Thinking I don't want to give any of the secrets.
I don't want to break the code entirely. I don't
want to do anything that they would think is disrespectful.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
No, because at the time, well, when when I got arrested,
that was my bottom and I had had like I
had had enough with the whole life and all, and
I felt like I needed to be true to myself.
I needed to heal within myself. I needed to tell
my story, not everybody else but me. I think that
(18:51):
with that it was working on me, working on myself.
So it wasn't like I was telling any of their business.
I was telling my story of what happened to me.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
And see, I thought, even listening to you too, you
had an opportunity to talk about your friend. They had
a lot of people on those shows that never worked
with Gotti. What and his friend was involved in another family.
They were just a mafioso telling what they knew about
the general understanding. But you talked about a man that
(19:22):
you met at a bar with your sister.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You know when I'm when I and it's it's funny
because just this past summer, well actually I think it
was this September that just passed. The person that I met,
John Gotti through Mock Ryder just passed away. And I
was friends with him through the years. He had gotten
life in prison. He was up in alan Wood Federal Prison,
(19:49):
not too far from where I lived, about two hours,
so I made it a point I used to go
visit him a couple of times a year. You realize,
like they live such a fast life, and then is
it all worth it? Because he lost his whole life
living in prison like he was there thirty seven years.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Well, let's talk about Mark Ryder a minute, because he
also validated you. I mean I think that's one of
the greatest acts of friendship that I've heard, is that
he called publicly to say, of course she knew John
Gotti and John Gotty knew her. Are you crazy?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And you know you know you're in law enforcement. It's
that even he didn't care he was incarcerated. He could
have gotten in trouble for even being on a video
that I'm doing an interview right now and I was
on a podcast and I get a call from an inmate.
They're not allowed to do that. So he went on
(20:50):
a limb. He went out on a limb to do that,
to say, what, of course you knew John Gotti. You
were with me, you met him with me, you were
out with us all the time, you knew everybody.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
He was gonna have your back. Yes, yes, because and
he's that old school, old school Mark Rider and Jean
Gotti and John Gottie.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Anthony Rappino, John, all of them them.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yes, they never cooperated. And people forget John Gotti went
to prison for a couple of years on a murder
charge in the seventies. Never said a.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Word, no, no, never said a word. But then you
have these other ones. Now, if you know all these.
I'm right now the only female podcaster my podcast, Andrew
Giudino podcast. I am the only female podcaster from organized
(21:52):
crime that's out there that the other podcasters that do
the stuff that I talk about Italian organized crime all
government informers. You don't have anybody out there that's talking
about this stuff that isn't a government informer.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And you didn't just get a reco charge. You got
a RICO charge. You kept your mouth shut. They offered
you witness protection.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I didn't go.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
You didn't go.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I didn't go. You know why I didn't go because
I had so much faith. Even back then, I was
always connected to church always. I might not have followed it,
but I was connected to it. And I just said,
we said, the guy upstairs knows when I'm gonna die.
I'm not going to be afraid. I'm just not afraid.
(22:43):
I'm not that kind of person to be afraid.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And I won't be able to understand though, Andrea, there
was a contract out on.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Oh yeah, legitimate contract.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
No, no, legit absolutely contract.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
They said she We're going to kill her. People went
to prison for it. They went to prison for that.
And here I am five six one hundred and twenty
five pounds back. Not afraid of anyone, no one. And
people would say when I've done these shows, are you No,
I'm not afraid. Why. I don't know. I'm just not.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
You've never been afraid. I've never been afraid.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I'm not going to have someone take that much of me.
I'm not gonna have just because he's a man and
I'm a woman who he's going to take that much
of me to make me be afraid. I'm not that
kind of person. I'll fight to the end. I'll fight
to the end.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
And before you were a member of the PTA, honey,
you did just that. You got into a bar fight
because somebody crossed one of your people.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yes, absolutely, straight.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Up bar fight, y'all. I'm not talking about pushing and shoven.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
No talk about with John Gotty sitting there.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
With John Gotti sitting there.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yes, with John Gotty sitting there.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Andrea, I gotta ask you. I gotta ask you this question.
Is there times where maybe you're driving to church, or
you're shopping, or you're with your grandchildren, do you ever
say how did I get here from there?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I do, and I have thought that I have like
very strong faith. I just think that I follow that
inner voice of what I'm supposed to do. And I
live alone, and I am as much as I'm so outgoing,
I have a very close circle. I don't get close
(24:32):
to people. I'm just close to my family, my kids,
my grandkids. That's it. I'm not really I don't let
anybody in my circle, you know, and my church, the
people from my church that you know, I feel I
feel safe with. I don't trust many people. You know,
when they say you're blessed if you get one good
(24:55):
friend in a lifetime, that is very true, because people
turn on you. People get envious, people get jealous. I mean,
even within my own family, the more successful I had become,
the more jealous they become. You know.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
That's why this podcast is called Zone seven. Atlanta has
six police owns. So when we would get together after
shifts and things like that, we couldn't come over the radio.
This was before cell phones and pagers, and we couldn't say, Hey, everybody,
we're going to go to the bar tonight. So we
would say we're going to five nine at Zone seven,
(25:30):
and then that kind of bled into this. There's only
a few people that I can truly count on truly trust,
actually want the best for me, are going to help
me be successful, going to kind of keep me out
of trouble, that kind of thing. And you're right, it's
a small circle.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
It's a small circle, and you have to keep your
circle small.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yep, yep. So when you decided to write your book
so that you can inspire other peoplearticularly women, to transform
their life, what was the first thing you thought about
putting on paper?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
How I got inspired to write my book. I was
in therapy and my therapist had said to me, write
down everything of your feelings from A to Z, from
what you can remember from your childhood and where you're
at now. So I started writing down things and I
couldn't believe when I was writing down so much trauma
I had experienced and went through as a child, like,
(26:31):
just so much trauma. And I decided, then when I
started writing all these notes down, I should write a book.
And then when I would say that, people very close
to me, even family members, oh, you're never going to
(26:52):
get a book out there. You have no education, you're
not a writer. Like the more you tell me I'm
not going to do it, the more I'll do it.
And then I had a big pause. Publisher picked me up.
So I think I wanted to write. I wanted to
write a book more so, believe it or not, for
women to understand, to maybe not go through what I
(27:17):
went through by choosing the bad boy, by choosing the
guy because he has money, you know, that lures you
in with the love bombing and all of that, and
then they change and then they're not the person they are,
Like stay away from the criminal, like try to stay
with the good guy. I wanted women to understand, because,
(27:39):
like I said, it's all cultures, not just the Italian
culture that there's crime in and and women don't realize
it until it's too late that you could lose your children,
you know, custody like which I did. I was custody
of one of my children and have the heartache of
(28:01):
you know, going to prison and you know, losing your
children that way, just by being associated with someone that
like that. So that's basically really why I wanted to
write a book.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Now, you mentioned a term love bomb that was new
to me. I have only recently heard that, and my
friend doctor Angie Arnold used it just in a sentence
like you just did, and I said, ooh, that sounds fabulous, right, Well, because.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
What they do, it's very common. Like most of these
men are sociopath narcissistic men that have no conscience. So
you know they'll fall in love with you because of
what you look like. I was very you know. You know,
you look back on my pictures or whatever, young beautiful girl,
and what happens is that the love bombing stage. Every
(28:51):
woman wants that because they're showering you with gifts, You're
going on a vacation. You know, they're telling you how
much they love you. And for me, because I didn't
get that love as a child, I never had anyone
hold me and tell me, oh, I love you, because
we would just pushed aside. I craved that. I wanted that.
(29:13):
I was like like, oh my god, you know he
loves me, Like that's what I wanted, which I never had.
So you just get caught up in that. But like now,
like with all the knowledge I've acquired and worked on
myself and all I could see the red flags a
mile away, you know, like the bullshit and all.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
That sure and the line and the cheating in the
Canalvin and the colony.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, yeah, because when a guy comes in whether he
could be a criminal or like a legit guy. And
he starts doing that with the you know, love bombing
stage where the gifts to this, to that. That's not
a good guy because he he shouldn't be doing that.
He should be courting you in a normal manner, not
buying you like a possession.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Right. Well, it was such a powerful thing that you
said earlier. If you're with sick people, you're gonna get sick.
I mean, it's the same thing if you're married to
somebody who is conting you, deceiving you, mistreating you. The
flowers in the jewelry, they don't mean anything.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
They don't mean nothing. Every time I used to get gifts,
I used to call them guilt gifts because my husband
probably did something really bad. That's basically why he was
giving them. And even now my brother, one of my brothers,
lives like maybe two three miles away. I haven't talked
to him in years. This he was, you know, did
about nine murders, pleaded out to nine murders. The government
(30:43):
let him out, but came out of prison after cooperating
nine murders, and him and my ex husband and they're
still two sick people together. They might like make society
think that they're different, but they're not. That mindset, the
(31:05):
mindset of I was just saying this to somebody. If
the audience could understand when someone commits a murder, this
is not normal, and then they can go out and
eat a steak and go out and live their life
and they have no remorse over it.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
That's associopath and you have to protect yourself from that
person mentally for your own health.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
So I sit exactly so I stay away from them.
I don't engage, I don't go to anything. I don't
see him. I haven't seen him in years, and he
lives a couple of miles away. I haven't bothered with
him in years. I want no part of him, nothing,
not him or my ex.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
So let's do this. Let's talk specifically about John Gottie.
Tell us about the person you knew.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You know a lot of people like say, oh, you
know what John was really about, and they made movies
about him and stuff like that. The John I knew
because I knew him in a setting of fun of
being out in the club's restaurants having a drink music.
I didn't see that vicious side of him. I did
(32:19):
not see that because I saw the fun part of John. Gentlemen.
I always say, you know, if men cursed, John would
be the first one to say, Hey, you got a
lady sitting here, mean while my mouth was worse than theirs.
So that but that's the best way I could explain it.
(32:41):
So if I was in a restaurant with girlfriends in
Manhattan and John walked in with a couple of guys,
or any of these guys like this, if you know them,
they'll say to the way to give me the check,
I'm paying the check. That's how they are.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
And you know, again, growing up hearing about I was
in high school and college, and all I understood was
everybody in the neighborhood loved him. There wasn't a sex
offender in that neighborhood. There wasn't a rapist in that neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
They take care of the neighborhood. They take care of their.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Own exactly and too exactly right. And I think again,
like law enforcement, I understand that you know, when a
police officer shot, everybody in the surrounding counties and agencies
are coming for the funeral. Everybody around the United States
is coming, and it's the same.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I'll tell you a story. What happened. I was in
my twenties. I was twenty five at the time. I'll
never forget. I was buying back then. If you remember,
you could buy a house with cash. They didn't have
They didn't check where your cash came from. I was
buying a house in Queens and the house was two
(33:53):
hundred and sixty thousand, and I went to contract and
I put sixty thousand down a contract of cash. I
decided then about a month later, I didn't want that
house because I didn't want to stay in Queen's. I
wanted to move back to Brooklyn. And this is a
tough Irish guy that I was buying the house from.
(34:14):
He owned a couple of bars in Manhattan along Seventh Avenue.
His name was Patty and Patrick Marin. I'll never forget.
I tell him I want to get out of it. Really.
He says, well, you're not getting the money back. I said,
what do you mean, I'm not getting the money back.
You're not getting the money back. He wouldn't give me
the money back. Long story short, I said, you're really
sure you want to go down that road? Yeah, you're
(34:35):
not getting the money back. Okay. I go to the
club where all the guys I know hang out, and
they go like this, and I don't want to mention
too many names, but some people are still alive. I
tell them the story. They said, tell me everything about
the guy. I said, Well, he owns this bar. He's
(34:55):
got a son that works at the bar. Well, the
bar's in New York. At four eight four am. They wait,
They get the son. His name is the son name
was named Patty. Four guys get him coming out of
the bar. They said, are you Patty Mary? Yeah, your
father's Patrick Marrin. They get him in the car. They
put a gun to his head. Take me to your
(35:17):
father's house. Knock on the father's door. You don't give
me f and money right now, a bag of sixty thousand.
I don't want a scent missed. I'm gonna put a
bullet in your son's head right here, right now. I
got every cent back the next morning, I guarantee you
did every cent. Wait, I say, go to the club.
What do I owe you? You owe us nothing. We
(35:38):
take care of our own nothing. They didn't take a cent.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
There you go, because Patty thought he was, you know,
a real tough guy.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Hey, didn't know anything about me, of where I came from,
who I was. I was buying his house. He just
went to He just tried to shake down the wrong person.
That's what happened. He shook down the royal figure. Oh
she's a kid whatever, you know. No, it didn't happen
like that. I kept saying, are you sure you want
to do this? You're not. He was a tough old
(36:09):
Irish guy. You're not getting a sent back. But buh,
buh buh, I got it back. They got it back
to right the way that they know how to fight.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Honey. They ain't nothing to add to that story. It's perfection.
To me. That's how the real world should work. You
don't wrong somebody, and if you do, their people should
knock on your door. Listen. I have heard your podcast,
tell everybody about it.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
So my podcast is basically about crime, all the crimes
that and about people. And I have guests on that
have done a lot of prison time, some of them
thirty years or more and have really true, you know,
hardcore stories and all facts. So if you love crime,
(36:56):
the podcast is basically all about that. It's about people
that are getting out of prison that I try to
bring on the show. I've had correctional offices that I've
met up at prisons that have retired that come on
my show. So the podcast is growing. I wasn't How
I got to do the podcast was after the Get Godie.
(37:18):
People were asking me and you know, you should do
a podcast, and that's how it got started. And it's
really been doing very well. So the podcast is just
my name Andrea giavino one on YouTube and if you
want to hear anything about crime, just tune in. And
I always answer when people leave me messages. I always
(37:40):
for the subscribers, I always answer them back.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Always unbelievable. Well, it is an outstanding podcast, I'm telling you.
And to get the stories that you're getting on tape,
I think is just part of American history and it's
an important part. I've always said and I'm going to
say it again. I think the Smithsonian should have an
entire building to true crime and the way it tells
(38:07):
the story of America.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, and what it is also women like
that that genre. Even when I started my podcast, I
got a lot of I still had to fight. I
got a lot of negative feedback from the men because
they just can't handle a woman like me, you know,
(38:32):
coming into their world now doing a podcast from big podcasters,
you know, you know which I'll put out this, Sammy Gravano,
Michael Francis. You know, they all wanted to knock me
because they were a little bit threatened. Oh she's coming
into this world now. And I just kept going and going,
and I continue to go, and I'm not going to
(38:54):
have them stop me. My stories are real. The people
I have on a vouch for me. I had a guy,
George Mortorano did thirty three years, he did two years
incarcerated with John Gotti, and just so happened, John Gotty
had talked about me when he was incarcerated, about just
when we were on the streets. So people vouched for me,
(39:16):
validated me, and these other guys try to knock me.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Well, I will say this. I heard one person saying
I never heard of her. Okay, Well let me just
respond to that the only way that I know how.
In my world, I can tell you the top drug
dealers in Atlanta. I can also tell you the street
(39:41):
level folks. That's my job to know who you are.
There is no way a beautiful, blondheaded Bombshelle is running
any kind of loan, sharken that he didn't hear about.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
That exactly exactly? How do you not know that?
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Ain't no way you don't know it. So but listen,
I appreciate you. I have enjoyed all of your stories,
all of your information. I appreciate your honesty and your
willingness to come and talk to us.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored that you,
in the background that you come from, want to interview
me because I love it. I think it's great. I
think it's a growth for you to understand who we are.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Listen, you said something that not only did I agree
with it, but I thought, Lord, everybody needs to hear it.
When people were saying, oh John God, he got took
down because he was on Time magazine, you said that
didn't happen that way. You said, law enforcement brought him
down and credit should be given. They took their time.
It's the same reason we know who you are. They
(40:52):
took their time and got you, and.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I feel that way in the bottom that's what they did.
They did that job, I said, and they did it
damn well.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
And you know, there's no reason to be disrespectful on
either side. You have gifts and you have things you
can teach law enforcement and they need to hear it,
just like you know the movie like Catch Me if
you can, you need to hear from Avang Gale you do.
There's things we don't know. We are always behind.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
You are always behind. You don't know because you don't
know the criminal mind, and they wait for people to
cooperate to tell them. But if you have a step
ahead of that and understand how the criminal mind works,
you'd be ten steps ahead.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
That's right. There's only a couple of things where this
is not the case, and like child molesters would be one.
But the way I try to do my job is
you remember the old cartoon with the sheep dog and
the fox trying to get the chickens or sheep or whatever. Okay,
And at the end of the day they would clock
out and say, okay, see tomorrow. I feel like you know,
(41:56):
that drug dealer's got a job, that prostitute's got a job, awhile,
and you know I'm not gonna be disrespectful to theirs,
and you know see tomorrow. You know That's the way
I see it.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
You have to put yourself into that criminal mind of
what's gonna happen next, what are they gonna do next,
so you don't have to wait to get an arrest
that they might beat the case. You want to win
your case.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
That's right, that's right. Well, I appreciate you, and this
was fabulous and I hope we get to talk again,
of course.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
And anything you ever need to ask or whatever, you
have my number to call me. It was a pleasure
talking to you.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Hey, and if you're ever in New York, contact me.
You could come on the show.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Oh, count on that you That would be fantastic. Thank you,
Thank you so much, y'all. I'm going to end Zone
seven the way that I always do with a quote,
everybody's a gangster until a gangster walks in the room,
John Gottie. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is Own seven.
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.