November 1, 2023 • 34 mins
On Sept. 7th, 1996, Tupac Shakur, age 25, was shot in a drive-by after leaving a boxing match at the MGM Grand on the Las Vegas strip.
He was sitting in a black BMW sedan with Suge Knight, the head of his record label, when a white Cadillac pulled up alongside and a gunman opened fire, striking Tupac multiple times.
In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum, talks with true crime author Cathy Scott about the unsolved 1996 murder of rapper Tupac Shakur. They discuss the shooting, key figures, timeline of events, and new developments in the cold case investigation.
Show Notes:
- [0:00] Welcome back to Zone 7 with Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum.
- [1:50] Sheryl introduces guest, Cathy Scott, to the listeners
- [3:25] Cathy Scott's Background
- [6:50] Question: When were you first aware of the shooting in 1994?
- [7:00] Details on the 1994 shooting of Tupac in New York
- [9:50] Tupac Shooting in Las Vegas on September 7th, 1996
- [12:20] Question: How is this murder not captured on film?
- [17:25] The relationship of Keefe D and Orlando Anderson
- [19:36] Biggie Smalls Murder in 1997
- [24:00] Suspects Identified
- [34:17] “I miss my son every day a little bit more, but I thank God every day for every second he was here.” -A.S
- Thanks for listening to another episode! If you’re loving the show and want to help grow the show, please head over to Itunes and leave a rating and review! How to Leave an Apple Podcast Review: First, Open the podcast app on your iPhone, Mac, or iPad. Then, hit the “Search” tab at the bottom right-hand corner of the page and search for Zone 7. Select the podcast, scroll down to find the subheading “Ratings & Reviews”. and select “Write a Review.” Next, select the number of stars you’d like to leave. Please choose 5 stars! Using the text box which says “Title,” write a title for your review. Then in the text box, write the review itself. The review can be up to 300 words long, but doesn’t need to be much more than: “Love the show! Thanks!” or Once you’re done select “Send” in the upper right-hand corner.
---
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.
You can connect and learn more about Sheryl’s work by visiting the CCIRI website https://coldcasecrimes.org
Social Links:
- Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
- Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
When my daughter Caroline was three, she started ballet lessons.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
She loved it. She was also pretty.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Good at it, and eventually she got a role for
the Nutcracker and Honey.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
She practiced every day.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
She would sometimes make everybody in the family play a
different role so that she could do her part.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Over and over.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
As we got closer to the big performance, she began
to realize this wasn't going to be at her studio.
She was going somewhere else on a stage in front
of a bunch of people. She was a little shy,
so one thing that happened is she was like, I
just don't know, that's a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And I don't want to be on that stage kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Well, her brother Huck said, hey, maybe I can be
one of the soldiers and I can be on stage.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
With you and then you won't be afraid.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So Huck tried out to be one of the soldiers
and he was picked to be the soldier that rolled
the cannon out and fired it. So Caroline was thrilled
that she was going to have her safety net with her,
and Huck, of course was thrilled because he and his
words got to blow something up. Huck would sometimes get
a little bit of ribbon from friends because he stayed
(01:24):
in the Nutcracker with her for several years, and as
he got a little bit older, he would tell the
boys that.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Were giving him a little bit of the business. He'd say, look, it's.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Me and thirty girls and they're all backstage changing costumes.
And then he would say, and you know what, I'm
going to be the mouse king. And that's the role
that Tupac had. Tonight, Kathy Scott is with us. She
not only was a New York Times bestselling author, she
(01:54):
was an LA Times bestselling author. Now, Kathy and I
first met and became fast friends because we both wrote
for Women in Crime, Inc. Then we met in person
at Crime Con. She has a legendary photo. It's her
and E f Lee Bailey and some other people. And
(02:15):
the reason I love this photograph so much is I
took it, and every time I see it, I get
so frustrated because I'm like, dang it, I wish I
was in that picture. But taking it was pretty cool,
I gotta say. And when we took on Tupac's case
in twenty fifteen, literally her book became our bible. It
is to date the most in depth investigative book on
(02:39):
Tupac's murder.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That I've ever read.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I was headed to Vegas in twenty fifteen because I
needed to be at the crime scene, to walk it,
to understand it, to really see it. But Kathy had
already moved to San Diego. But she is one of
those people that continued to help me with cases like
Drew Peterson, Mayor Lanski, Frank Klatta.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
And of course Tupac Shakur. The students revere her.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
The experts admire her, and I have the great fortune
of her being my friend and somebody in my zone seven.
And I will tell you as a friend, she wrote
a fabulous biography on me which I am forever indebted. So,
ladies and gentlemen, Kathy Scott.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Thank you so much for a warm introduction. Cheryl, and
I am happy to call you friend as well and
happy to be here on your podcast.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Well I'll tell you, baby, this case, this case, to me,
has so many just roads that spiral out from it.
I mean, you've got the music industry, and not just
the music industry, but gangs to wrap at a time
where a lot of people weren't really fans and law
(03:56):
enforcement was still trying to understand it because a lot
of the music was directed negatively toward them.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
You got gangs, you got.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
The bloods and the crips. You've got drugs and drug sales.
You've got lawsuits, You've got homicides, high profile homicides. How
in the world did you first get into this case?
With your phone ringing about two in the morning.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I was a reporter at the time at the Las
Vegas Sun. I covered police. I had, you know, with
the police beat was was mine and uh we had
a we had a night police reporter as well. But
I got a call from a source inside the homicide
unit at about two o'clock, as you said, in the morning,
(04:40):
who said, get up wrapper two packshacker because they couldn't
pronounce Tupac Shakora. They at that point don't even know
who he was, And so I had it. I threw
in some clothes and grabbed my reporter's notebook and headed
down to the Las Vegas Strip. And I've been covering
(05:00):
the case ever since.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Now. At that time, again, law enforcement could not even
pronounce his name correctly, but they knew enough. Your source
knew enough to call you out of bed so they
knew it was going to be pretty important, right.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, well they I mean they knew that that it
was a rapper and he was a big deal, and
so they knew they knew that much. Plus it was
such a I mean it was a drive by shooting
and ended up with the cars on the Las Vegas Strip,
and he was giving me heads up to go cover
a crime, and so I did. You know, I'm forever
(05:33):
grateful for that, and the who will remain nameless source
who called me on that night and early morning, and
then it was just kind of crazy. After that, there
was a news conference and I went to that and
that there was a Bruce sald and Mike Tyson fight,
(05:55):
which is why Tupac was in town and why the
Cryps gang members in town. So that's why Tupac was
driving in the car after the fight headed down to
a club to perform. But you know, the fight, it
was all hyped up. It was you know, Mike Tyson
knocked out Bruce Selden in one hundred and nine seconds
(06:17):
and Tupac was just if you you see the video
of him. He was interviewed just after walking out of
the Grand Arena, all hyped up. I mean he you know,
Bet interviewed him, and so that's the mood he was
in when they went down to get out of the
MGM and saw Orlando Anderson from Compton standing at the elevator,
(06:43):
and that's when the whole whole beat down happened.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, let's go back a second.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
When were you first aware of the shooting from nineteen
ninety four.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Ninety four was when Tupac got shot at the Quad Studios,
right crap, that was the impetus for the East Coast
West Coast rap war. So Tupac was really good friends
with Biggie, and Tupac was bigger than Biggie at that point.
Chupac he used to invite Biggie on stage, so so
they became friends. They he'd go to you know, I
(07:15):
interviewed Biggie's mother, Valletta Wallace. I interviewed the guy who
hired Biggie Smalls at his grocery store when he was
twelve years old, and his son was best friends with
him even as an adult. And Tupac would take his limo,
have his limbo driver, go into Bedside, you know, New Jersey,
(07:36):
and pick up Biggie and his friend and go down
to Manhattan and party, and so they were. They were
good friends. You know, Tupac was apparently a little gulli
ball when Chupac got there and everybody was waiting for him.
Biggie was there, you know, he was recording his uh record.
(07:56):
Producer Sean Combs was their p ditty and backup singers.
Tupac was there and a different thing. But they all
knew that the others were going to be there. So
everybody's waiting. They're looking out the windows looking down at
the street for for Tupac to get there. And this
was in Times Square, but it was midnight, you know,
(08:18):
so it's not too crowded. So Tupac and the guys
he's with, once his cousin, they are loaded with gold,
gold necklaces, you know, gold bracelets, just gold all around them.
And they're walking, you know, down this dark street Quad
Studios at midnight and they and I've been to Quad
(08:41):
Studios twice, and they walked into the lobby no video
camera on. There was a camera, no video tape in it,
and some guys dressed in cami, unarmed walk in and
just rip off all the jewelry from Tupac Tupac had
(09:01):
a gun in his waist belt and he reached for
it and he fired it before pulling it out and
shot himself in the growing. So he had to go
to the hospital, but he went upstairs first. It wasn't
a bad injury. You know. He's in a wheelchair. The
next day had to appear in court and he went
(09:22):
to prison the next day. Tupac, once he was in prison,
someone told him, hey, Biggie set you up. Biggie set
you up. He's the one who got those guys Acquad
Studios to steal your jewelry. And he believed it and
from then on now that is that is what started
(09:43):
the East Coast West Coast racing.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
September seventh, nineteen ninety six, Tupac Shakur is shot and
killed in a drive by shooting. He's in the black
BMW driven by Sugar Knight. From death Row records. Well,
it was pretty clear that traditional investigative techniques weren't going
to work here because you had every single witness and
(10:11):
every single victim taking the street code. Like even when
law enforcement asked Tupac who was conscious? Who shot you?
He looked right at the man and said.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
F you if you believe him. Took that ex officer
seventeen years to say that and to come out and
say it. And also my question is I knew that
Shude Knight and a police officer had pulled Tupac from
the car. The car was not on fire. It's not
(10:43):
like I have to pull pull somebody out of a
car wasn't on fire. Nobody was shooting out them because
he had already gotten away from the shooters, so they
were they kind of opened the door all the way,
but they opened it partially and pulled him out. Question
to that former officer was do you think you injured
(11:05):
his chest more? Because he died of a chest injury,
do you think you did further damage to him when
you yanked his body out of that car. I just
think that's the least proud thing I would talk about.
But I'm just saying.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Now there's a convoy of like ten cars. They had
been to the Tyson fight the NGM. Then there was
a fight at the hotel that included Orlando Anderson who
went by Baby Lane. Now there's a video, it's a
famous video of Tupac and Sugar Night punching and kicking
Orlando Anderson.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
True and now say yeah, it's an infamous video. It
was interesting when that video came out because the police
did not release that video. It was lenked from someone
at the hotel to a media outlet.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Now that's another thing that I want to talk to
you about. I've been to Las Vegas more than once,
and people always talk about how many cameras are everywhere
because there's just so much cash, money and poker chips
and everything else around. When I went to that intersection,
and again it was years after, but I standing there
(12:15):
could see multiple cameras.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
How is this murder not captured on film?
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Well, Las Vegas has kind of impacted then especially has
kind of been behind the times. But in nineteen ninety six,
there were no video cameras at that intersection. You know,
we have the video from the MGM grand of course
inside the casino for that beat down, but that's because
(12:44):
they're trying to prevent any crimes from going on in
you know, and it's because it's a casino. There's lots
of money around. But no, there weren't any cameras. So
that those came later.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It would have saved a whole lot of time and
a lot of heartache and a lot of lawsuits and
a lot of other killings, especially today.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
You know, I didn't even have a flip phone at
that point I had. I had a radio, you know,
it's just what I used, you know, for the to
file my story from the hospital. And we were the
first to release that Tupac Shakor had died from you know,
in the Las Vegas son article that I filed from
(13:25):
the scene that was on a radio to the news
desk that had a radio, and I wrote it in
my reporter's notebook and then and then I called it
into the desk. They typed it up, made it live,
and about two hours later, the breaking news of Tupac's
(13:47):
deaths went worldwide and shut down our website.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Well, you were also the first reporter on the scene.
You saw the black BMW sitting there with tape still around.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
It, right, and some CSI people were still there, and
it was just very, very eerie. And then a photographer
and I the next day went to the I think
we went in like noon or something in the afternoon.
By then the car was gone. We went to the lot,
you know, the police yard where the car was being held,
(14:23):
and he kind of climbed half the fence so that
the photographer could get a photo of the BMW there
in the yard. Metro police weren't talking to outside reporters.
The sergeant is always the main person to speak with,
not the not the two detectors. It's a three man
(14:44):
on a side team. The head sergeant, you know, heading
the investigation, wasn't picking up his phone or returning calls.
And so I had reporters right and left calling me
because I was writing about it in the Las Vegas
and so they're very frustrated that they weren't getting anything
(15:07):
from the police department. It was quite different. And they
also at their news conference was cut probably two days after,
maybe three days. I think it was a Monday after
and all the sports writers of course, were all and
TV people were all assigned to the story, so they
were everybody converged. And I remember it was on grass
(15:30):
behind homicide. It's since relocated to someplace else, to another building.
The sergeant he read the news release and then turned
around and walked away, and he looked like a deer
caught in headlights. Didn't take any questions from any reporters.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
How could Tupac get shot? Four times twice in the chest,
and should Knight kind of just have a little frapnel
to me when you think about the passenger in your
car trying to get away, trying to move, trying to
get in the back seat, he basically shielded Should he did.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I've said that all along, you write, Cheryl, he shielded him.
Tupac was oliver trying to get out of the get
in the back. It was too small and it was
kind of a sporty BMW and plus he was shot,
so you know, it's time to be able to move around.
Of course was limited, as you know, he lost blood.
(16:31):
But but if you look at he's sitting sideways and
the way they shot, they shot into the car door
right straight into his side, and then you know you
can see some of them may did blew out the windows,
but he did get should knights still in his neck.
(16:52):
There's a piece of shrapnel from a bullet in his
uh the base of his skull, top of his neck.
And he was taken to the hospital with Tupac and
Shug was held overnight in the hospital, which would have
been a good opportunity for Metro police to go interview him,
and they did go to the hospital, but they went
(17:15):
later in the day and Shug had already been released.
You know, just that's one more one more missed opportunity
in my book.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Well that's a big missed opportunity, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
KVD and Orlando Anderson are both Southside Compton crips, but
they are also related.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yes, kif D is Orlando Anderson's uncle, and at the
time of the shooting, Orlando was living with his uncle
kif D, who was a higher up in the in
the street gang crypts at that time. And there was
you know, a couple of weeks I forget the timeline,
(17:55):
but a few weeks later there was a gang roundup
and Umpton pde the gang cops who I've talked to
them at length and met with them several times, and
they contacted Metro Police Department that they would be doing
a gag roundup in that Keefy D's house where Orlando lives,
(18:17):
the shooter. They would be raiding his house and they
would hold him for them to they would detain him,
not arrest them, detain him so that Metro Police could
interview him. So a detective with Metro Police went to Compton,
I don't know talk about weather with Orlando, but they
(18:38):
did not interview him about the case.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
So a lot of people are accepting pretty quickly that
Orlando Anderson had something to do with it. Being the
KVD had access to a weapon, they were, you know,
probably not going to allow him to have a beatdown
like that and not retaliate in some way. I agree
with you that talking to some of these people quickly
(19:02):
might have stopped some of this. But Orlando Anderson is
killed two years later in an unrelated crime.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I guess he's.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Going to collect some money from a drug deal and
he gets into a shootout and he's killed. So now
you have the primary suspect dead, you can't prosecute him.
Sug Knight's not talking obviously, Tupac has been murdered. And
then we go down the road a little bit. You
look at this history where Tupac blamed Biggie for the
(19:34):
nineteen ninety four shooting. You've got all this East coast,
West coast happening, and then Biggie Smalls is murdered.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
It was a domino effect for sure. Biggie was killed
six months after Tupac. That's not as easy to you know,
break down. But with time. You know, there's an Alford David.
You may have read it, Soileatta Wallace su the LAPD
for not solving her son's murder. In it, they say
(20:06):
that Biggie Smalls from jail from prison, this guy David Mack,
who's an ex cop, former gang member. He goes to
prison to talk to Shug Knight, and Suge Knight has
Mac tell their buddy Harry Billups who's known as Mohammed,
(20:27):
to kill Biggie Smalls. When you know, Biggie Smalls was
murdered outside the Peterson Peterson Automotive Museum. I went there afterwards,
talked to the security people, and they security people, they
had lots of cameras, but nothing reached the street because
(20:48):
I talked to them directly. But anyway, so Biggie Smalls
is coming out with p Ditty and all their backup
singers and whatnot, and they're headed out out the parking
lot which is covered to the sidewalk outside and long
comes this vintage car. Someone opens fire on the car
(21:11):
that Biggie is sitting in, and you know, raditat tat
like Bonnie and Clyde, and he's all shot up. And
then that I think it wasn't in Paula and the vintage,
and it takes off Gues's what Harry Phillips had in
his garage and named Paula. That LAPD decided not to
(21:33):
prosecute that case.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And you know, speaking of filing lawsuits, Tupac's mom she
filed a lawsuit against Orlando Anderson in ninety seven, and
then Orlando Anderson filed one against death row records. I mean,
it's just like this whole thing, so much was made public,
so much was put on paper, so much.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Was you know, catalog for folks.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I mean, this to me would be something that you
would study if you were investigating this case.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And I did. I come through everything. It was interesting
because I was on a beet program with a Fanny
chikor tupax mom, and you know I had put the autopsy,
you know, we had decided to put a copy of
the autopsy photo in in the book. And that's also,
by the way, part evidence right now. And then the
(22:27):
cover of our book, the last photo of him taken
uh taken alive is evidence as well because it shows
how they were seated in the car. I was on
be et with her and somebody said, you know, she's
probably going to be upset with you, you know, because the
autopsy photo. She was very gracious to me, and a
(22:50):
Fannie was not about Tupac's death. She was all about
his legacy. She was she you know, she filed smaller
suits and got court orders from people not to sell
her son's likeness or sell his music so she could
keep you know, trying to keep it all the same.
(23:11):
But she was different the Latta Wallace. Her whole purpose
was get whoever killed him, and that has been her
life's pursuit for Biggie. So it's interesting two different women.
You know. I always say Tupac was his mother's son.
She was more introspective and as was Tupac. And Tupac
(23:35):
was so intelligent and such a poet and had away
with words, and obviously his mother had to be smart
to get herself self out of a murder charge is
pretty incredible.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
So then in twenty eighteen, there's a beet interview with
KVD where he admits being in the front seat and
the shooters in the back seat and he had missed
a hand in the shooter or a gun. Well, to me,
at that point, your suspects go to two people, because
there's four people in the car and there's two people
in the back seat.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
So we're down to two.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
And if you think of the relationship, one being his
nephew that was just beaten and kicked, then we're down
to one exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
And yeah, the other two people who are in the
car or dad, one of them was killed the next
day and shoot out in Compton because of Blood's and
the Crypts. You know, the Bloods went after the Crypts
in retaliation the next couple of days for two bucks
killing the Bloods. Did the police work for him? Took
(24:46):
one of them out, but not the police would kill him,
but took one out. But yeah, you've got two suspects.
And Keithy d I mean you not only say it
and you know, on a show, but you put it
in your own book and you write it down that
(25:07):
you got the gun and handed it to the government
who happens to be your nephew. And now there's a
little bit of oh no, it wasn't Orlando who did it.
It was you know, this guy next to him, because
Orlando didn't have a good shot will he did, And
I don't believe that for two seconds he was bragging
(25:28):
about it. Orlando was on the street bragging about it.
The Compton PD, with their intelligence, they went to went
to Vegas and talked to Metro Police and laid it
out as Orlando being the killer, no one else. And
they had all the names of everybody in the car,
(25:50):
including KEEFD that was handed to Metro police in nineteen
ninety six. You know, justice is sometimes I'm delayed, but yeah,
this is as good a case as you can get
because you've got the guy who is a well, he's
not an accessory to murder because when you provide the
(26:13):
weapon in Nevada anyway, that becomes murder one. So he's toast.
And my understanding is I was on a radio show
with a retired lieutenant who says he believes that they're
going to try to plead plead him out so he'll
(26:33):
get instead of life in prison, maybe twenty five point
thirty something like that. They're going to try to plead
him out instead of going to trial. We're down the street.
Don't know if it's true, but.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
You know, when you write a book, a tell all book,
and refer to yourself as the Compton Street legend, you're
almost begging for somebody to come after you.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
In one way or another.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Well, absolutely, it's like, come on here, I am, you know,
wide open. And then and then what's up with moving
to Las Vegas. I mean they probably had him under
surveillance the second he moved to Las Vegas. I mean,
let's return, not only return to the scene of the corn,
let's move there. I mean it's and I don't know
(27:20):
that had Keef d been in La Still, the Metro
Police would have had to work with the LAPD because
he was would have been a resident of La Still.
So I don't know that that Metro police would have
prosecuted it. Being right there in Henderson in the back
(27:41):
backyard of Las Vegas. It was a slam dunk. And yeah,
you can you know you can't. You can't keep people
from themselves, show.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Amen, because you know they're taking computers and cell phones
and hard drives, tubs of photographs, they've got, of course
his book, and then they've got forty caliber bullets. Are
you telling me he kept that kind of item that
they're going to be able to connect to that murder?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Well, he had a block and it was either a
forty or forty five. The bullets, and they did get
they did pull a block out of the house of
Keithy D's when they were back in ninety seven whatever
it was when they did a raid gain raid and
(28:30):
his house was included and came back inconclusive. But as
you know, inconclusive doesn't mean that that wasn't the bullet.
It just means that the bullets that came out in
Tupac's body were all mangled and you couldn't match them up.
But my understanding is they returned that gun to him
because nobody was arrested, and so you know, I don't
(28:54):
know if that they didn't list a block as being
part of the evidence, but the fact that he's got
that caliber bullets that fit a block is hard evidence
as well. So he's I believe he's toast and he's
going to go to prison.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Well, your book, the Killing of Tupac Shakur, it doesn't
just set the bar, it is the bar.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
I mean, it is so in depth and you have everything.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
You have dates, times, interviews, names, badge numbers, people, photographs,
autopsy photographs.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I mean, you have it all.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
And I know that when this broke you might not
have been shocked by the who, But you might have
been a little shocked that it's finally actually happened, because
you and I have talked about this case for a
long time, And why in the world somebody's not in
prison when you've got people out there admitting it, you
got people filing lawsuits because they know who did it.
(29:59):
You've got other people killing other people because they know
who did it. I mean, it's just one of those
things you're like, how can people have been killed in
revenge and you not know when they know? And then
mama's filing a lawsuit because she knows it. Shouldn't have
taken his book.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
That's true. They knew it all along, and there was
a lack of Daysico attitude. And they'll argue with me
about it, but I was there, and there's a lack
of Daysico attitude when the game, when the when the
head of the investigation, the sergeant comes into his office
that day and turns on his recorder, you know, because
(30:40):
we had message recorders back then on our phones and
there were three hundred messages and most of them from
reporters from across the world. And he turns off that
recorder and doesn't return calls. Is that someone who's looking for,
you know, solving it. So America's Most Wanted to me
(31:01):
and America's Most Wanted came to Las Vegas Police. And
this may have been in ninety seven or so. I
could have been a year or two or three years
after they went to John Walsh with Americas Most Wanted
went to the Metro Police Department to have the sergeant
or a detective on the case to go on the
(31:23):
show or at least be in the studio after they
do their peace and Metro Police Department declined to participate.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
But even the Compton Police went to Las Vegas to help.
And you know, Sean Puffy Combs knew that Should Knight
was after him. I mean, that wouldn't have shocked anybody.
And then when Sean Puffy Combs had a friend, Jake
Rubli is killed in Atlanta, I know the APD was
trying to say, hey, can we help connect anything. I mean,
(31:55):
this isn't a stretch. Everybody should have been working together.
Everybody was kind of saying the exact same thing at
the exact same time, and it was just like no
action was ever taken.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I asked cops a bunch of times, you know, what
why aren't they doing it? And there's one thing that
you probably know with all your years of working with
different police department and being a member of a police department.
They keep their cases close to their vests. They don't
always share. Now they may share a federal case overlap
(32:30):
lapse and they have to, but they're a little selfish
sometimes when it comes to sharing, you know, and for
a good reason probably, But so everybody was keeping their
knowledge of the cases close to the vest, and nobody
worked together to try to solve it. But in the
Metro Police Department, according to the game cops out of
(32:52):
Compton who Bobby Ladd was one of them and Tim
was the other who is now gone. And I wish
Tim were here for it too. But they were frustrated
and called me, what's going on? You said, Vegas wasn't
interested in any of the intelligence they wanted to give
(33:13):
them from the street, and they were right there. They
knew exactly what was going on. Had Tupac been killed
in the drive by shooting in Compton, that case would
have been solved immediately.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
In La Well, y'all, we're going to have to have
Kathy's got back. As we get closer to Citen Center
whatever is going to happen in conclusion with this case,
so we can walk through more of where it started
and where we are now.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I would be happy to be back on and as
things solidify in Las Vegas and hopefully we'll see some
action in La with the Biggie Small's case, so I'd
be pleased to be on. Thanks so much, well, Kathy.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I can't thank you enough for being here with me
all these years, working on numerous cases, and you know,
giving your time and talent every time. I just appreciate
you and I am so grateful you're in my Zone seven.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
It's my pleasure. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Well, y'all.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I
always do with a quote. I miss my son every
day a little bit more, but I thank God every
day for every second.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
He was here. A Penis Shakur. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and
this is Zone seven.
When my daughter Caroline was three, she started ballet lessons.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
She loved it. She was also pretty.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Good at it, and eventually she got a role for
the Nutcracker and Honey.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
She practiced every day.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
She would sometimes make everybody in the family play a
different role so that she could do her part.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Over and over.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
As we got closer to the big performance, she began
to realize this wasn't going to be at her studio.
She was going somewhere else on a stage in front
of a bunch of people. She was a little shy,
so one thing that happened is she was like, I
just don't know, that's a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And I don't want to be on that stage kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Well, her brother Huck said, hey, maybe I can be
one of the soldiers and I can be on stage.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
With you and then you won't be afraid.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So Huck tried out to be one of the soldiers
and he was picked to be the soldier that rolled
the cannon out and fired it. So Caroline was thrilled
that she was going to have her safety net with her,
and Huck, of course was thrilled because he and his
words got to blow something up. Huck would sometimes get
a little bit of ribbon from friends because he stayed
(01:24):
in the Nutcracker with her for several years, and as
he got a little bit older, he would tell the
boys that.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Were giving him a little bit of the business. He'd say, look, it's.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Me and thirty girls and they're all backstage changing costumes.
And then he would say, and you know what, I'm
going to be the mouse king. And that's the role
that Tupac had. Tonight, Kathy Scott is with us. She
not only was a New York Times bestselling author, she
(01:54):
was an LA Times bestselling author. Now, Kathy and I
first met and became fast friends because we both wrote
for Women in Crime, Inc. Then we met in person
at Crime Con. She has a legendary photo. It's her
and E f Lee Bailey and some other people. And
(02:15):
the reason I love this photograph so much is I
took it, and every time I see it, I get
so frustrated because I'm like, dang it, I wish I
was in that picture. But taking it was pretty cool,
I gotta say. And when we took on Tupac's case
in twenty fifteen, literally her book became our bible. It
is to date the most in depth investigative book on
(02:39):
Tupac's murder.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That I've ever read.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I was headed to Vegas in twenty fifteen because I
needed to be at the crime scene, to walk it,
to understand it, to really see it. But Kathy had
already moved to San Diego. But she is one of
those people that continued to help me with cases like
Drew Peterson, Mayor Lanski, Frank Klatta.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
And of course Tupac Shakur. The students revere her.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
The experts admire her, and I have the great fortune
of her being my friend and somebody in my zone seven.
And I will tell you as a friend, she wrote
a fabulous biography on me which I am forever indebted. So,
ladies and gentlemen, Kathy Scott.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Thank you so much for a warm introduction. Cheryl, and
I am happy to call you friend as well and
happy to be here on your podcast.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Well I'll tell you, baby, this case, this case, to me,
has so many just roads that spiral out from it.
I mean, you've got the music industry, and not just
the music industry, but gangs to wrap at a time
where a lot of people weren't really fans and law
(03:56):
enforcement was still trying to understand it because a lot
of the music was directed negatively toward them.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
You got gangs, you got.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
The bloods and the crips. You've got drugs and drug sales.
You've got lawsuits, You've got homicides, high profile homicides. How
in the world did you first get into this case?
With your phone ringing about two in the morning.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I was a reporter at the time at the Las
Vegas Sun. I covered police. I had, you know, with
the police beat was was mine and uh we had
a we had a night police reporter as well. But
I got a call from a source inside the homicide
unit at about two o'clock, as you said, in the morning,
(04:40):
who said, get up wrapper two packshacker because they couldn't
pronounce Tupac Shakora. They at that point don't even know
who he was, And so I had it. I threw
in some clothes and grabbed my reporter's notebook and headed
down to the Las Vegas Strip. And I've been covering
(05:00):
the case ever since.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Now. At that time, again, law enforcement could not even
pronounce his name correctly, but they knew enough. Your source
knew enough to call you out of bed so they
knew it was going to be pretty important, right.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, well they I mean they knew that that it
was a rapper and he was a big deal, and
so they knew they knew that much. Plus it was
such a I mean it was a drive by shooting
and ended up with the cars on the Las Vegas Strip,
and he was giving me heads up to go cover
a crime, and so I did. You know, I'm forever
(05:33):
grateful for that, and the who will remain nameless source
who called me on that night and early morning, and
then it was just kind of crazy. After that, there
was a news conference and I went to that and
that there was a Bruce sald and Mike Tyson fight,
(05:55):
which is why Tupac was in town and why the
Cryps gang members in town. So that's why Tupac was
driving in the car after the fight headed down to
a club to perform. But you know, the fight, it
was all hyped up. It was you know, Mike Tyson
knocked out Bruce Selden in one hundred and nine seconds
(06:17):
and Tupac was just if you you see the video
of him. He was interviewed just after walking out of
the Grand Arena, all hyped up. I mean he you know,
Bet interviewed him, and so that's the mood he was
in when they went down to get out of the
MGM and saw Orlando Anderson from Compton standing at the elevator,
(06:43):
and that's when the whole whole beat down happened.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, let's go back a second.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
When were you first aware of the shooting from nineteen
ninety four.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Ninety four was when Tupac got shot at the Quad Studios,
right crap, that was the impetus for the East Coast
West Coast rap war. So Tupac was really good friends
with Biggie, and Tupac was bigger than Biggie at that point.
Chupac he used to invite Biggie on stage, so so
they became friends. They he'd go to you know, I
(07:15):
interviewed Biggie's mother, Valletta Wallace. I interviewed the guy who
hired Biggie Smalls at his grocery store when he was
twelve years old, and his son was best friends with
him even as an adult. And Tupac would take his limo,
have his limbo driver, go into Bedside, you know, New Jersey,
(07:36):
and pick up Biggie and his friend and go down
to Manhattan and party, and so they were. They were
good friends. You know, Tupac was apparently a little gulli
ball when Chupac got there and everybody was waiting for him.
Biggie was there, you know, he was recording his uh record.
(07:56):
Producer Sean Combs was their p ditty and backup singers.
Tupac was there and a different thing. But they all
knew that the others were going to be there. So
everybody's waiting. They're looking out the windows looking down at
the street for for Tupac to get there. And this
was in Times Square, but it was midnight, you know,
(08:18):
so it's not too crowded. So Tupac and the guys
he's with, once his cousin, they are loaded with gold,
gold necklaces, you know, gold bracelets, just gold all around them.
And they're walking, you know, down this dark street Quad
Studios at midnight and they and I've been to Quad
(08:41):
Studios twice, and they walked into the lobby no video
camera on. There was a camera, no video tape in it,
and some guys dressed in cami, unarmed walk in and
just rip off all the jewelry from Tupac Tupac had
(09:01):
a gun in his waist belt and he reached for
it and he fired it before pulling it out and
shot himself in the growing. So he had to go
to the hospital, but he went upstairs first. It wasn't
a bad injury. You know. He's in a wheelchair. The
next day had to appear in court and he went
(09:22):
to prison the next day. Tupac, once he was in prison,
someone told him, hey, Biggie set you up. Biggie set
you up. He's the one who got those guys Acquad
Studios to steal your jewelry. And he believed it and
from then on now that is that is what started
(09:43):
the East Coast West Coast racing.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
September seventh, nineteen ninety six, Tupac Shakur is shot and
killed in a drive by shooting. He's in the black
BMW driven by Sugar Knight. From death Row records. Well,
it was pretty clear that traditional investigative techniques weren't going
to work here because you had every single witness and
(10:11):
every single victim taking the street code. Like even when
law enforcement asked Tupac who was conscious? Who shot you?
He looked right at the man and said.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
F you if you believe him. Took that ex officer
seventeen years to say that and to come out and
say it. And also my question is I knew that
Shude Knight and a police officer had pulled Tupac from
the car. The car was not on fire. It's not
(10:43):
like I have to pull pull somebody out of a
car wasn't on fire. Nobody was shooting out them because
he had already gotten away from the shooters, so they
were they kind of opened the door all the way,
but they opened it partially and pulled him out. Question
to that former officer was do you think you injured
(11:05):
his chest more? Because he died of a chest injury,
do you think you did further damage to him when
you yanked his body out of that car. I just
think that's the least proud thing I would talk about.
But I'm just saying.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Now there's a convoy of like ten cars. They had
been to the Tyson fight the NGM. Then there was
a fight at the hotel that included Orlando Anderson who
went by Baby Lane. Now there's a video, it's a
famous video of Tupac and Sugar Night punching and kicking
Orlando Anderson.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
True and now say yeah, it's an infamous video. It
was interesting when that video came out because the police
did not release that video. It was lenked from someone
at the hotel to a media outlet.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Now that's another thing that I want to talk to
you about. I've been to Las Vegas more than once,
and people always talk about how many cameras are everywhere
because there's just so much cash, money and poker chips
and everything else around. When I went to that intersection,
and again it was years after, but I standing there
(12:15):
could see multiple cameras.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
How is this murder not captured on film?
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Well, Las Vegas has kind of impacted then especially has
kind of been behind the times. But in nineteen ninety six,
there were no video cameras at that intersection. You know,
we have the video from the MGM grand of course
inside the casino for that beat down, but that's because
(12:44):
they're trying to prevent any crimes from going on in
you know, and it's because it's a casino. There's lots
of money around. But no, there weren't any cameras. So
that those came later.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It would have saved a whole lot of time and
a lot of heartache and a lot of lawsuits and
a lot of other killings, especially today.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
You know, I didn't even have a flip phone at
that point I had. I had a radio, you know,
it's just what I used, you know, for the to
file my story from the hospital. And we were the
first to release that Tupac Shakor had died from you know,
in the Las Vegas son article that I filed from
(13:25):
the scene that was on a radio to the news
desk that had a radio, and I wrote it in
my reporter's notebook and then and then I called it
into the desk. They typed it up, made it live,
and about two hours later, the breaking news of Tupac's
(13:47):
deaths went worldwide and shut down our website.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Well, you were also the first reporter on the scene.
You saw the black BMW sitting there with tape still around.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
It, right, and some CSI people were still there, and
it was just very, very eerie. And then a photographer
and I the next day went to the I think
we went in like noon or something in the afternoon.
By then the car was gone. We went to the lot,
you know, the police yard where the car was being held,
(14:23):
and he kind of climbed half the fence so that
the photographer could get a photo of the BMW there
in the yard. Metro police weren't talking to outside reporters.
The sergeant is always the main person to speak with,
not the not the two detectors. It's a three man
(14:44):
on a side team. The head sergeant, you know, heading
the investigation, wasn't picking up his phone or returning calls.
And so I had reporters right and left calling me
because I was writing about it in the Las Vegas
and so they're very frustrated that they weren't getting anything
(15:07):
from the police department. It was quite different. And they
also at their news conference was cut probably two days after,
maybe three days. I think it was a Monday after
and all the sports writers of course, were all and
TV people were all assigned to the story, so they
were everybody converged. And I remember it was on grass
(15:30):
behind homicide. It's since relocated to someplace else, to another building.
The sergeant he read the news release and then turned
around and walked away, and he looked like a deer
caught in headlights. Didn't take any questions from any reporters.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
How could Tupac get shot? Four times twice in the chest,
and should Knight kind of just have a little frapnel
to me when you think about the passenger in your
car trying to get away, trying to move, trying to
get in the back seat, he basically shielded Should he did.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I've said that all along, you write, Cheryl, he shielded him.
Tupac was oliver trying to get out of the get
in the back. It was too small and it was
kind of a sporty BMW and plus he was shot,
so you know, it's time to be able to move around.
Of course was limited, as you know, he lost blood.
(16:31):
But but if you look at he's sitting sideways and
the way they shot, they shot into the car door
right straight into his side, and then you know you
can see some of them may did blew out the windows,
but he did get should knights still in his neck.
(16:52):
There's a piece of shrapnel from a bullet in his
uh the base of his skull, top of his neck.
And he was taken to the hospital with Tupac and
Shug was held overnight in the hospital, which would have
been a good opportunity for Metro police to go interview him,
and they did go to the hospital, but they went
(17:15):
later in the day and Shug had already been released.
You know, just that's one more one more missed opportunity
in my book.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Well that's a big missed opportunity, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
KVD and Orlando Anderson are both Southside Compton crips, but
they are also related.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yes, kif D is Orlando Anderson's uncle, and at the
time of the shooting, Orlando was living with his uncle
kif D, who was a higher up in the in
the street gang crypts at that time. And there was
you know, a couple of weeks I forget the timeline,
(17:55):
but a few weeks later there was a gang roundup
and Umpton pde the gang cops who I've talked to
them at length and met with them several times, and
they contacted Metro Police Department that they would be doing
a gag roundup in that Keefy D's house where Orlando lives,
(18:17):
the shooter. They would be raiding his house and they
would hold him for them to they would detain him,
not arrest them, detain him so that Metro Police could
interview him. So a detective with Metro Police went to Compton,
I don't know talk about weather with Orlando, but they
(18:38):
did not interview him about the case.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
So a lot of people are accepting pretty quickly that
Orlando Anderson had something to do with it. Being the
KVD had access to a weapon, they were, you know,
probably not going to allow him to have a beatdown
like that and not retaliate in some way. I agree
with you that talking to some of these people quickly
(19:02):
might have stopped some of this. But Orlando Anderson is
killed two years later in an unrelated crime.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I guess he's.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Going to collect some money from a drug deal and
he gets into a shootout and he's killed. So now
you have the primary suspect dead, you can't prosecute him.
Sug Knight's not talking obviously, Tupac has been murdered. And
then we go down the road a little bit. You
look at this history where Tupac blamed Biggie for the
(19:34):
nineteen ninety four shooting. You've got all this East coast,
West coast happening, and then Biggie Smalls is murdered.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
It was a domino effect for sure. Biggie was killed
six months after Tupac. That's not as easy to you know,
break down. But with time. You know, there's an Alford David.
You may have read it, Soileatta Wallace su the LAPD
for not solving her son's murder. In it, they say
(20:06):
that Biggie Smalls from jail from prison, this guy David Mack,
who's an ex cop, former gang member. He goes to
prison to talk to Shug Knight, and Suge Knight has
Mac tell their buddy Harry Billups who's known as Mohammed,
(20:27):
to kill Biggie Smalls. When you know, Biggie Smalls was
murdered outside the Peterson Peterson Automotive Museum. I went there afterwards,
talked to the security people, and they security people, they
had lots of cameras, but nothing reached the street because
(20:48):
I talked to them directly. But anyway, so Biggie Smalls
is coming out with p Ditty and all their backup
singers and whatnot, and they're headed out out the parking
lot which is covered to the sidewalk outside and long
comes this vintage car. Someone opens fire on the car
(21:11):
that Biggie is sitting in, and you know, raditat tat
like Bonnie and Clyde, and he's all shot up. And
then that I think it wasn't in Paula and the vintage,
and it takes off Gues's what Harry Phillips had in
his garage and named Paula. That LAPD decided not to
(21:33):
prosecute that case.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And you know, speaking of filing lawsuits, Tupac's mom she
filed a lawsuit against Orlando Anderson in ninety seven, and
then Orlando Anderson filed one against death row records. I mean,
it's just like this whole thing, so much was made public,
so much was put on paper, so much.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Was you know, catalog for folks.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I mean, this to me would be something that you
would study if you were investigating this case.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And I did. I come through everything. It was interesting
because I was on a beet program with a Fanny
chikor tupax mom, and you know I had put the autopsy,
you know, we had decided to put a copy of
the autopsy photo in in the book. And that's also,
by the way, part evidence right now. And then the
(22:27):
cover of our book, the last photo of him taken
uh taken alive is evidence as well because it shows
how they were seated in the car. I was on
be et with her and somebody said, you know, she's
probably going to be upset with you, you know, because the
autopsy photo. She was very gracious to me, and a
(22:50):
Fannie was not about Tupac's death. She was all about
his legacy. She was she you know, she filed smaller
suits and got court orders from people not to sell
her son's likeness or sell his music so she could
keep you know, trying to keep it all the same.
(23:11):
But she was different the Latta Wallace. Her whole purpose
was get whoever killed him, and that has been her
life's pursuit for Biggie. So it's interesting two different women.
You know. I always say Tupac was his mother's son.
She was more introspective and as was Tupac. And Tupac
(23:35):
was so intelligent and such a poet and had away
with words, and obviously his mother had to be smart
to get herself self out of a murder charge is
pretty incredible.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
So then in twenty eighteen, there's a beet interview with
KVD where he admits being in the front seat and
the shooters in the back seat and he had missed
a hand in the shooter or a gun. Well, to me,
at that point, your suspects go to two people, because
there's four people in the car and there's two people
in the back seat.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
So we're down to two.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
And if you think of the relationship, one being his
nephew that was just beaten and kicked, then we're down
to one exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
And yeah, the other two people who are in the
car or dad, one of them was killed the next
day and shoot out in Compton because of Blood's and
the Crypts. You know, the Bloods went after the Crypts
in retaliation the next couple of days for two bucks
killing the Bloods. Did the police work for him? Took
(24:46):
one of them out, but not the police would kill him,
but took one out. But yeah, you've got two suspects.
And Keithy d I mean you not only say it
and you know, on a show, but you put it
in your own book and you write it down that
(25:07):
you got the gun and handed it to the government
who happens to be your nephew. And now there's a
little bit of oh no, it wasn't Orlando who did it.
It was you know, this guy next to him, because
Orlando didn't have a good shot will he did, And
I don't believe that for two seconds he was bragging
(25:28):
about it. Orlando was on the street bragging about it.
The Compton PD, with their intelligence, they went to went
to Vegas and talked to Metro Police and laid it
out as Orlando being the killer, no one else. And
they had all the names of everybody in the car,
(25:50):
including KEEFD that was handed to Metro police in nineteen
ninety six. You know, justice is sometimes I'm delayed, but yeah,
this is as good a case as you can get
because you've got the guy who is a well, he's
not an accessory to murder because when you provide the
(26:13):
weapon in Nevada anyway, that becomes murder one. So he's toast.
And my understanding is I was on a radio show
with a retired lieutenant who says he believes that they're
going to try to plead plead him out so he'll
(26:33):
get instead of life in prison, maybe twenty five point
thirty something like that. They're going to try to plead
him out instead of going to trial. We're down the street.
Don't know if it's true, but.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
You know, when you write a book, a tell all book,
and refer to yourself as the Compton Street legend, you're
almost begging for somebody to come after you.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
In one way or another.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Well, absolutely, it's like, come on here, I am, you know,
wide open. And then and then what's up with moving
to Las Vegas. I mean they probably had him under
surveillance the second he moved to Las Vegas. I mean,
let's return, not only return to the scene of the corn,
let's move there. I mean it's and I don't know
(27:20):
that had Keef d been in La Still, the Metro
Police would have had to work with the LAPD because
he was would have been a resident of La Still.
So I don't know that that Metro police would have
prosecuted it. Being right there in Henderson in the back
(27:41):
backyard of Las Vegas. It was a slam dunk. And yeah,
you can you know you can't. You can't keep people
from themselves, show.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Amen, because you know they're taking computers and cell phones
and hard drives, tubs of photographs, they've got, of course
his book, and then they've got forty caliber bullets. Are
you telling me he kept that kind of item that
they're going to be able to connect to that murder?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Well, he had a block and it was either a
forty or forty five. The bullets, and they did get
they did pull a block out of the house of
Keithy D's when they were back in ninety seven whatever
it was when they did a raid gain raid and
(28:30):
his house was included and came back inconclusive. But as
you know, inconclusive doesn't mean that that wasn't the bullet.
It just means that the bullets that came out in
Tupac's body were all mangled and you couldn't match them up.
But my understanding is they returned that gun to him
because nobody was arrested, and so you know, I don't
(28:54):
know if that they didn't list a block as being
part of the evidence, but the fact that he's got
that caliber bullets that fit a block is hard evidence
as well. So he's I believe he's toast and he's
going to go to prison.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Well, your book, the Killing of Tupac Shakur, it doesn't
just set the bar, it is the bar.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
I mean, it is so in depth and you have everything.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
You have dates, times, interviews, names, badge numbers, people, photographs,
autopsy photographs.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I mean, you have it all.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
And I know that when this broke you might not
have been shocked by the who, But you might have
been a little shocked that it's finally actually happened, because
you and I have talked about this case for a
long time, And why in the world somebody's not in
prison when you've got people out there admitting it, you
got people filing lawsuits because they know who did it.
(29:59):
You've got other people killing other people because they know
who did it. I mean, it's just one of those
things you're like, how can people have been killed in
revenge and you not know when they know? And then
mama's filing a lawsuit because she knows it. Shouldn't have
taken his book.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
That's true. They knew it all along, and there was
a lack of Daysico attitude. And they'll argue with me
about it, but I was there, and there's a lack
of Daysico attitude when the game, when the when the
head of the investigation, the sergeant comes into his office
that day and turns on his recorder, you know, because
(30:40):
we had message recorders back then on our phones and
there were three hundred messages and most of them from
reporters from across the world. And he turns off that
recorder and doesn't return calls. Is that someone who's looking for,
you know, solving it. So America's Most Wanted to me
(31:01):
and America's Most Wanted came to Las Vegas Police. And
this may have been in ninety seven or so. I
could have been a year or two or three years
after they went to John Walsh with Americas Most Wanted
went to the Metro Police Department to have the sergeant
or a detective on the case to go on the
(31:23):
show or at least be in the studio after they
do their peace and Metro Police Department declined to participate.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
But even the Compton Police went to Las Vegas to help.
And you know, Sean Puffy Combs knew that Should Knight
was after him. I mean, that wouldn't have shocked anybody.
And then when Sean Puffy Combs had a friend, Jake
Rubli is killed in Atlanta, I know the APD was
trying to say, hey, can we help connect anything. I mean,
(31:55):
this isn't a stretch. Everybody should have been working together.
Everybody was kind of saying the exact same thing at
the exact same time, and it was just like no
action was ever taken.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I asked cops a bunch of times, you know, what
why aren't they doing it? And there's one thing that
you probably know with all your years of working with
different police department and being a member of a police department.
They keep their cases close to their vests. They don't
always share. Now they may share a federal case overlap
(32:30):
lapse and they have to, but they're a little selfish
sometimes when it comes to sharing, you know, and for
a good reason probably, But so everybody was keeping their
knowledge of the cases close to the vest, and nobody
worked together to try to solve it. But in the
Metro Police Department, according to the game cops out of
(32:52):
Compton who Bobby Ladd was one of them and Tim
was the other who is now gone. And I wish
Tim were here for it too. But they were frustrated
and called me, what's going on? You said, Vegas wasn't
interested in any of the intelligence they wanted to give
(33:13):
them from the street, and they were right there. They
knew exactly what was going on. Had Tupac been killed
in the drive by shooting in Compton, that case would
have been solved immediately.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
In La Well, y'all, we're going to have to have
Kathy's got back. As we get closer to Citen Center
whatever is going to happen in conclusion with this case,
so we can walk through more of where it started
and where we are now.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I would be happy to be back on and as
things solidify in Las Vegas and hopefully we'll see some
action in La with the Biggie Small's case, so I'd
be pleased to be on. Thanks so much, well, Kathy.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I can't thank you enough for being here with me
all these years, working on numerous cases, and you know,
giving your time and talent every time. I just appreciate
you and I am so grateful you're in my Zone seven.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
It's my pleasure. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Well, y'all.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I
always do with a quote. I miss my son every
day a little bit more, but I thank God every
day for every second.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
He was here. A Penis Shakur. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and
this is Zone seven.
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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