December 11, 2024 • 23 mins
In March 8th, 1990, an unidentified homicide victim was discovered at West Point Lake, Georgia, and remains unidentified to this day.
In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum, talks with Clay Brant about an unidentified homicide victim discovered at West Point Lake in 1990. They discuss the victim's distinctive tattoos, a unique belt buckle, a commemorative ring from the Missouri Pacific Railroad, and other personal effects. Sheryl and Clay also discuss trackng the victim’s identity through DNA testing, media outreach, and historical labor records. Last but not least, they encourage listeners to take part in the effort to help, highlighting the critical role of media and community involvement in solving cold cases.
Guest Bio and Links:
Clay Bryant is a retired chief of police, author, and cold case expert with decades of experience in law enforcement. Known for his meticulous attention to detail, Clay has solved numerous high-profile cases, bringing closure to families and communities.
Clay is the author of three books:
The Cold Case Murder of Fred Wilkerson: Untangling the Black Widow's Web in West Georgia
Solving the West Georgia Murder of Gwendolyn Moore: A Cry From the Well
Solving the Murder of Vieng Phovixay: Evil Dwells in West Georgia (True Crime)
Show Notes:
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(0:00) Welcome back to Zone 7 with Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum
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(0:10) Sheryl introduces the 1990 case
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(0:30) Sheryl welcomes returning guest, Clay Brant to the listeners
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(2:00) Distinctive tattoos and their significance
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(5:00) Investigative leads and challenges
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(8:30) Potential connections and theories
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(11:45) Efforts to identify the victim
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(14:30) Call for Zone 7 listeners
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(23:05) “For me, jewelry is a way of keeping memories alive.” -LC
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Thanks for listening to another episode! If you’re loving the show and want to help grow the show, please head over to Itunes and leave a rating and review!
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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.
Social Links:
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Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
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Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
March eighth, nineteen ninety, an unknown homicide victim washed ashore
in West Point Lake, just north of Lagrange, Georgia. He
is still unidentified today. We need your help, y'all tonight.
Welcome back, Chief clay Brant. Chief, how are you doing well?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Doing? Glad to hear from your share?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, I'm glad you're back because this case, I honestly
believe with the help of as many people that we
can get the word out. You used to had a
better chance of identifying this man well, without.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
A doubt, And I'm so privileged to be able to
have your platform to be able to put this word out.
This case has gone long enough.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well I just won't be able to know. West Point
Late is a man made reservoir located in west central
Georgia on the Chattahoochee River, and it's maintained by the
Army Corps of Engineers. It flows from the north. Now, Chief,
the body of this man was in advanced state of decall.
(01:18):
The medical examiner theorized that it had been about sixty
days post death and the gunshot wound was the cause
of death.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Correct, that is correct.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
What those gunshot wounds look.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Like typical keyhole defects in the skull to the rear
of the skull, if you would termine as an execution.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Style killing execution style. So two, so they met business.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
They were d shots were intended to dispatch the victim quickly.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And the victim was between thirty and sixty, approximately six
feet tall and one hundred and eighty pounds Caucasian.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Correct, And there's time span on age is kind of lengthy,
but that had to do with the fact that he
was in advanced stage of decomposition. And the medical examiner
said that's about the best he could do. And if
you if you look at some of the things he
had on him, uh, in the way of tattoos and
other items. He was a mature Caucasian male.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Okay, well, let's talk about the tattoos because I am
real interested in especially one of.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Them, the uh one of the uh, the most distinctive
one he had on his back, and it was if
you remember back in the seventies, I guess it was
maybe the early eighties, there was the old keep on
trucking tattoo where they had the guy came keeping back
and he's got taken big long strides and it's and
this was pretty much crossed some shoulder to shoulder to
(02:48):
his back, and he had one finger that appeared to
be trying to touch down on what appeared to be
a either a mirror or a saucer or a razorblade
beside it, which was kind of indicative with drug use.
He also had a tattoo on his right chest of
the old original Mickey Mouse cartoon steamboat Willie. It was
(03:12):
on his right chest. And then he had a amateur
tattoo on his right upper arm that said.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Mob Okay, now those if you know this person, that
is pretty distinctive. The one on the back, that's the
one that got my attention the most. It's a big tattoo,
is an unusual tattoo. So I think that's something that
you know, we're gonna be able to put out and
(03:40):
show y'all some photographs of Now. He was also wearing
a T shirt, flannel shirt, blue jeans, and insulated coveralls.
Now Chief. He was also wearing a ring, a commemorative ring.
What was that about?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
He had on it Manifat actually by battle for and
it was a ring that was obtained through the Missouri
Pacific Railroad for employees and people that had worked for
the Missouri Pacific and its best. They said that the
Missouri Pacific was actually acquired by the Union Pacific in
(04:19):
nineteen eighty four, and there's a lot of records that
didn't make the cut. This ring, they said they were distributed,
to the best of their knowledge, the Missouri Pacific Historical
Society in Kansas City said that this ring was distributed
between eighty and eighty two. On the it's a bluestone
and it had Kansas Division, which that line would have
(04:42):
run from Kansas City to Pueblo, Colorado. I don't know what.
From the other artifacts he had in his possession tell
me that he was probably a steel worker of some type,
pipefitter that type. One thing was surprising to me. I
contacted Balfour to try to get a list of the
(05:05):
folks that during that time period bought those rings through
the Missouri Pacific in Kansas City, and they said they
didn't keep records anymore other than seven years. I kind
of find it hard to believe. I, you know, on
occasions where class rings have been returned to folks fifty
years ago. But I'm not quite finished with that yet.
We're going to try to go up a level on
(05:25):
that one.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I've heard that too. Wow. Okay. Inside the ring it
had some initials c AM.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yes, ma'am it did. And also there was an old
zip O flip top lighter in the pocket of the
cover offs and it was also inscribed with the initial
C A M.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, that leads me to think this was the victim's ring,
because if they had guided out of a poem shop
or found it or stole it, they wouldn't have a
correspondent lighter.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Chances are yes, man, that's my guess as well, unless
there would be possibility that some relative like maybe his
father or somebody that was near and near to him
could have had this. And if that's the case, maybe
someone would know who this might have been. There's also
a very very unique craft made buckle on the belt.
(06:19):
It is a same as steel bucker and it is
in cases a Eisenhower silver dollar with tails facing out.
Very nice buckle. Like I it's well made, and I
contacted just because of what I believe his profession may
(06:40):
have been, has been a pipefitter or a welder. I
contacted Pipefitters Union in Kansas City because that's had the
Kansas City rain and they told me that those particular
belt buckles. They said that the craftsman in union guys,
(07:00):
when they went on a particularly big job, usually they
made some type of unique momento that identifies them as
being on that job. This particular belt buckle, he said,
fit the bill of a job that was in Kansas City,
and it was the Folly Corporation, and it would have
(07:21):
been somewhere seventies and eighties. It was a pretty long
project that was a chemical plan, So that does fit
right with thing. He may have been a pipefitter and
also depending on his age, he literally could have been
a pipe fitter for the railroad or worked as a
welder in the mechanical shop or in the car shop.
(07:43):
I was told there was a possibility that they could
have been used an outside union labor. Of those particular jobs.
Usually the railroad tried to stay in house, but sometimes
work volume overwhelming them, and that was a possibility as well,
which would fit hand in glove the ring, the belt buckle.
It all makes sense now. I have contacted the union
(08:09):
financial guy that is there now and with the Pipe
Fitters Union five point fifty three in Kansas City, and
he says that he was going to check with some
other people he knew had participating in that job see
if maybe I hadn't heard anything back from him yet,
(08:29):
but I'm fully expecting to.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, Chief, Just so people know, West Point Lake is
really close to Interstate eighty five. It runs about thirty
five miles along the Chattahoochee at the Alabama Georgia line.
So this person could have been in Alabama, could have
been in Georgia. Do you have a feeling where he
(08:51):
originated from before he was found in the lake?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, there are also two fairly large Georgia Power price
just north of us on the Chattahoochie River, and they
would have employed certified welders. I'm sure Union guys to
for the pipe fitting work for Georgia Power, and I'm
(09:15):
kind of the opinion that he may have been there.
And there are several campgrounds and things where these guys
that they because they it's a traveling job and they
come on, they come on the scene, they work days
and then go home, maybe months and go home. But
I'm thinking this possibly he could have been working at
(09:37):
Plant Wansley, which was called Yellow Dirt. Also uh Plant Yates,
which is out of Highway sixteen. Both of them are
right along the Chatahoochee River and draw water for those
plants from the Chattahoochee, and both were involved in some
fairly headed construction back during the period that just were
taken place.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Now, the lake itself has about five hundred and twenty
five miles a shoreline. Where he was found, is it
near woods, is it near a parking lot, is it
near a campground, like you said, a cabin?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Actually where he was found at the time in ninety
it was pretty remote. It was where Georgia Highway two
nineteen crosses the Shadohooche River, close to the headwaters of
the West Point Lake. He was probably a mile down
river and he was on the western shore. He'd washed
(10:35):
ashore and he was actually found by a fisherman recognized
as being a human body and call the authorities. And
what we've described is what was found.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Do you think he was shot there at the lake
or do you think he came in through the river?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
He came in through the river. There's no doubt in
my mind about that. He had been a wash. Actually,
it was during the winter drawdown and he was ten
or fifteen feet from water up on the shoreline.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
And when you say winter draw down, you mean the
lake is just lower in the winter.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
It is west Point Lake, I think six hundred and
thirty five feet at summer proval above sea level, and
it draws down to six hundred It drops down ten
feet in the winter time. It was in March and
lake hadn't been maked back again. Of course, that does
fluctuate some with the amount of rain and whatnot. You know,
the reasion. They draw it down so to store water
(11:31):
in case, be able to store water in case have
a particular rainy season, and then don't have to dump
it all down river.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
At one time, I just wanted to be sure the
folks listening and understood what winter draw down was. I
didn't know if they would know that term. So I
just want to be sure we're all on the safe page.
So one thing that you and I talked about is
you have a skull.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
We do GBI had they retained the skull. I have
contact the crime lab. They have located that piece of
evidence all the way back to nineteen ninety and the
other remains were turned back down here after the autopsy
and they are located in the shadow Lown cemetery in
(12:14):
Lagrange and a pauper's grave. What our plan is at
this point is to contact a lab that is willing.
I I was hoping that GBI would try to extract
this DNA for us, but doesn't look like that's going
to happen, and I'll have to get see what I
(12:36):
can do to get a private lab to do it
for us.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Okay, well, I'm pretty sure we can help you that.
And you know, I talked to Kelly Lawson over there,
and she is an amazing artist and she could do
a facial reconstruction for you and go ahead and get
a phase out there. She could make a poster, and
(12:59):
you know, along with the jewelry, I think we could do.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
An unbelievable media blitz from Kansas to Colorado and say,
does anybody recognize this face along with this jewelry, because.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I'll tell you, most men, if they wear any rings,
it's a wedding ring, maybe a college ring or sports ring,
but a work ring is rare. They're out there. But
if it's not a Masonic ring or a wedding ring
or a college football you know, bowl ring, most men
don't wear a lot of jewelry. So for this man
(13:39):
to have that ring and the belt buckle, I think
that's significant.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Oh absolutely, along with that lighter it was inscribed. You know,
old Zippo lighters are hard to find, but you know
that quite hard to find. But still that was a
point where you know, everybody just about going to the
disposable stuff, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, and like you said, being engraved, I mean, that's
something you just cannot put on the shelf.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Den Graven was not a bad quality either. It was
like the jewelry store maybe had done it. Of course,
a baalpoor ring. Again, I was shocked when they said
they kept. Of course, the person that I talked to
in customer service and it's like everything else been computerized
and about now, I guess it's a possibility that if
(14:23):
you've talked to the right folks, you can find somebody
to go into an archive somewhere and maybe dig out
some information for us.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Right, and the person in customer service probably knows they
can only go back seven years, that's all their capability
is on their computer. But to your point, there's some
archive somewhere and you get the right person on the phone,
and here's the thing. Let's talk a little bit cheap.
And this is why I say to everybody listening to
Zone seven, we need your help. Y'all may think of
(14:53):
something cheap and I hadn't thought about. But you know,
every now and then on a gold case, you're gonna
hit a wall and it's nothing to do with your
investigative skills or what you've thought to do. It is
what it is. So I called the Missing Persons Unit
at the Kansas City Police Department because I thought six
(15:16):
feet one hundred and eighty with a keep on trunk
and tattoo, that's gonna take me about four minutes. But
they told me in all of their digitized files that
nineteen ninety was a gap missing. They don't have it digitized.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
And I thought something as well. You know, the only
thing separates Kansas City, Kansas and Kansas City, Missouri is
the river. Back in the day, you know, when methamphetamine
was just getting started. You know, Kansas City, Missouri was
a mess of methamp metha amphetamine capital of the world.
Did you check with Kansas City, Kansas, because that's what
was on the ring. Did you check with Missouri as well?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
No?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
But the detective that I talked about it and I
looked through NamUs. I went there instead, but I hadn't
got there yet, but I went there because of what
was on the ring. I thought, that's the most you know,
a to b to look at. But then I went
to the newspaper and I tried to find the archives myself,
and then I called a reporter at the Kansas City
(16:21):
Star and just said, I just want to know if
anybody's done some articles, if family members are looking for somebody,
if police are looking for somebody. And he said he
would go through the archives and call me. But I
don't have a response yet, but he said either way
he would call me back. So I'm hoping tomorrow, maybe Thursday,
I'll hear something.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I got to say one thing for your tenacious well
you're today.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I'm just trying to follow you. But I mean, these
are things you know a lot of times, and you
know this better than anybody. You may have something and
you say, well, I got a white female thirty to
forty five, you know, five six, whatever, and that's it.
He's got so many things that are unique about him.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
It is you know, I came out of retirement and uh,
the sheriff down here, Sheriff James Woodruff. He asked me
to come and look at some cold cases and so
far been pretty successful, and this one was one of
the ones who has been on the shelf for a
long time and uh, and there was credible work done
on it. They actually contacted the railroad and got a
list of employees. But the stumbling block is that when
(17:32):
they traded over from the Missouri Pacific and it was
assumed by the Union Pacific, it was a fair amount
of history loss there in the way of records. And
but the guy with the hit Missouri Pacific UH Historical Society,
and it's a pretty incredible outfit. I mean, they have
(17:54):
conventions and a lot of the people stay together and
they're trying to help me with this as well, or
doing all they can because they don't have access to
those records anymore in the Union Pacific at the time
they sent what they had in ninety but that was
nearly ten years after they were required. And I'm thinking
that he might have been an outside guy that was working,
(18:17):
you know, through the Union with the.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Railroad well thirty four years. You know, somebody might have
just started with the railroad and they gave it thirty years.
And if they go to maybe a convention or reunion.
You never know, they may remember, oh.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
You member, Oh you know Joe went missing because again
he's wearing the insulated coveralls, so that would be indicative
of somebody working outside.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
So was this done right after work? Was this done
on the lunch break? Was this done on the way
to work?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You know, I thought about something else too, Cheryl. We
need to check into is he could have moved his
union membership to Atlanta. Yes, And the way that works,
you know, the union companies call one outfit that a
large outfit that were doing work at Yellow Dirt that
was using union labor was Flori Daniel and they're out
(19:13):
of South Carolina, but their worldwide outfit. And I need
to be able to get in touch with a living,
breathing soul at Flori Daniel. It might have some access
to some records from back then where somebody might not
have showed up to pick up a check or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
That's smart, Chief. You know, I am a firm believer
in the media being a tool on cold cases.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, absolutely, there's nothing better.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Actually, there's nothing better. And you know, I try to
get young guys to understand that all the time. But
you know, they just say they're distrusting of the media
and whatever. But in a case like this, I believe
that's going to be the ticket.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I I do that I do as well. Information and
its ability to travel will be the only thing that
will always crime. We might get extremely lucky, and because
in ninety our guy is not going to be in
a coatisbank.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
That's right?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
If we were extremely lucky, I mean to the point
of we're talking looking at chickens teeth. By chance a
member of his family has thrown in to twenty three
and me or ancestry dot com. In those databases cross match,
we might find somebody in a family tree that's relative
of his. But other than that, it's going to be
(20:36):
word of mouth, and with the help of the media
and folks like good people like you, will be the
only thing they ever solved this one. I can't tell
you again how much I appreciate your interest and all
the things that you do. I've been very, very fortunate
in my career and I can't do anything but admire
what you do and what you have done that for
(20:58):
that matter, for the help that you rendered to me
this last little case a couple months ago where you
actually came out and gave us your time to help
us with determining where we think of homicide had taken place,
and with the information that you helped us gather, I've
been able we turned it over to Fulton County and
they've gone back now and did an extensive search in
(21:22):
the place that you've indicated that you thought there was
evidence of the crime. And had it not been for that,
I don't know if we'd got any of that done
in that case, will we prosecuted? And I think we're
going to be able to bring somebody to.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Justice for well, you know, good and well anytime you
pull up and say hop in the front seat of
patrol car, I'm gone. I mean, is an honor to
work with you. You know that. And I tell you here's
what we're gonna do. We're gonna put a story together
for Crime Online, which will include the photographs that you
have sent to me and what we talked about, just
(21:58):
a brief story, and we're going to get this thing
really pushed between Kansas City, Colorado, Georgia, and Alabama and
see what we can come up with.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Well, I prove, like again, I appreciate you know all
the help that you're doing. Because of your position, you know,
with dealing with folks in the media, you're so much
more well equipped to know the availability of being able
to use them as a tool, even more so than
I do. And again I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Here, well, you know, we both know that little low
girl out of Bibb County. I think we can get
some attention put on this thing. We'll see what we
can do. But I appreciate you too, and you know
all the Zone seven we're fixing to go to work again.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I just appreciate what you do and it's going to help.
You been to me and it's been invable, and I appreciate, Yes.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Sir, y'all almost end Zone seven. The way that I
always do with a quote for me, jewelry is a
way of keeping memories alive, Lily Collins. I'm Cheryl McCollum
and this is Zone seven.
March eighth, nineteen ninety, an unknown homicide victim washed ashore
in West Point Lake, just north of Lagrange, Georgia. He
is still unidentified today. We need your help, y'all tonight.
Welcome back, Chief clay Brant. Chief, how are you doing well?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Doing? Glad to hear from your share?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, I'm glad you're back because this case, I honestly
believe with the help of as many people that we
can get the word out. You used to had a
better chance of identifying this man well, without.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
A doubt, And I'm so privileged to be able to
have your platform to be able to put this word out.
This case has gone long enough.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well I just won't be able to know. West Point
Late is a man made reservoir located in west central
Georgia on the Chattahoochee River, and it's maintained by the
Army Corps of Engineers. It flows from the north. Now, Chief,
the body of this man was in advanced state of decall.
(01:18):
The medical examiner theorized that it had been about sixty
days post death and the gunshot wound was the cause
of death.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Correct, that is correct.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
What those gunshot wounds look.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Like typical keyhole defects in the skull to the rear
of the skull, if you would termine as an execution.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Style killing execution style. So two, so they met business.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
They were d shots were intended to dispatch the victim quickly.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And the victim was between thirty and sixty, approximately six
feet tall and one hundred and eighty pounds Caucasian.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Correct, And there's time span on age is kind of lengthy,
but that had to do with the fact that he
was in advanced stage of decomposition. And the medical examiner
said that's about the best he could do. And if
you if you look at some of the things he
had on him, uh, in the way of tattoos and
other items. He was a mature Caucasian male.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Okay, well, let's talk about the tattoos because I am
real interested in especially one of.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Them, the uh one of the uh, the most distinctive
one he had on his back, and it was if
you remember back in the seventies, I guess it was
maybe the early eighties, there was the old keep on
trucking tattoo where they had the guy came keeping back
and he's got taken big long strides and it's and
this was pretty much crossed some shoulder to shoulder to
(02:48):
his back, and he had one finger that appeared to
be trying to touch down on what appeared to be
a either a mirror or a saucer or a razorblade
beside it, which was kind of indicative with drug use.
He also had a tattoo on his right chest of
the old original Mickey Mouse cartoon steamboat Willie. It was
(03:12):
on his right chest. And then he had a amateur
tattoo on his right upper arm that said.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Mob Okay, now those if you know this person, that
is pretty distinctive. The one on the back, that's the
one that got my attention the most. It's a big tattoo,
is an unusual tattoo. So I think that's something that
you know, we're gonna be able to put out and
(03:40):
show y'all some photographs of Now. He was also wearing
a T shirt, flannel shirt, blue jeans, and insulated coveralls.
Now Chief. He was also wearing a ring, a commemorative ring.
What was that about?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
He had on it Manifat actually by battle for and
it was a ring that was obtained through the Missouri
Pacific Railroad for employees and people that had worked for
the Missouri Pacific and its best. They said that the
Missouri Pacific was actually acquired by the Union Pacific in
(04:19):
nineteen eighty four, and there's a lot of records that
didn't make the cut. This ring, they said they were distributed,
to the best of their knowledge, the Missouri Pacific Historical
Society in Kansas City said that this ring was distributed
between eighty and eighty two. On the it's a bluestone
and it had Kansas Division, which that line would have
(04:42):
run from Kansas City to Pueblo, Colorado. I don't know what.
From the other artifacts he had in his possession tell
me that he was probably a steel worker of some type,
pipefitter that type. One thing was surprising to me. I
contacted Balfour to try to get a list of the
(05:05):
folks that during that time period bought those rings through
the Missouri Pacific in Kansas City, and they said they
didn't keep records anymore other than seven years. I kind
of find it hard to believe. I, you know, on
occasions where class rings have been returned to folks fifty
years ago. But I'm not quite finished with that yet.
We're going to try to go up a level on
(05:25):
that one.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I've heard that too. Wow. Okay. Inside the ring it
had some initials c AM.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yes, ma'am it did. And also there was an old
zip O flip top lighter in the pocket of the
cover offs and it was also inscribed with the initial
C A M.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, that leads me to think this was the victim's ring,
because if they had guided out of a poem shop
or found it or stole it, they wouldn't have a
correspondent lighter.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Chances are yes, man, that's my guess as well, unless
there would be possibility that some relative like maybe his
father or somebody that was near and near to him
could have had this. And if that's the case, maybe
someone would know who this might have been. There's also
a very very unique craft made buckle on the belt.
(06:19):
It is a same as steel bucker and it is
in cases a Eisenhower silver dollar with tails facing out.
Very nice buckle. Like I it's well made, and I
contacted just because of what I believe his profession may
(06:40):
have been, has been a pipefitter or a welder. I
contacted Pipefitters Union in Kansas City because that's had the
Kansas City rain and they told me that those particular
belt buckles. They said that the craftsman in union guys,
(07:00):
when they went on a particularly big job, usually they
made some type of unique momento that identifies them as
being on that job. This particular belt buckle, he said,
fit the bill of a job that was in Kansas City,
and it was the Folly Corporation, and it would have
(07:21):
been somewhere seventies and eighties. It was a pretty long
project that was a chemical plan, So that does fit
right with thing. He may have been a pipefitter and
also depending on his age, he literally could have been
a pipe fitter for the railroad or worked as a
welder in the mechanical shop or in the car shop.
(07:43):
I was told there was a possibility that they could
have been used an outside union labor. Of those particular jobs.
Usually the railroad tried to stay in house, but sometimes
work volume overwhelming them, and that was a possibility as well,
which would fit hand in glove the ring, the belt buckle.
It all makes sense now. I have contacted the union
(08:09):
financial guy that is there now and with the Pipe
Fitters Union five point fifty three in Kansas City, and
he says that he was going to check with some
other people he knew had participating in that job see
if maybe I hadn't heard anything back from him yet,
(08:29):
but I'm fully expecting to.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, Chief, Just so people know, West Point Lake is
really close to Interstate eighty five. It runs about thirty
five miles along the Chattahoochee at the Alabama Georgia line.
So this person could have been in Alabama, could have
been in Georgia. Do you have a feeling where he
(08:51):
originated from before he was found in the lake?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, there are also two fairly large Georgia Power price
just north of us on the Chattahoochie River, and they
would have employed certified welders. I'm sure Union guys to
for the pipe fitting work for Georgia Power, and I'm
(09:15):
kind of the opinion that he may have been there.
And there are several campgrounds and things where these guys
that they because they it's a traveling job and they
come on, they come on the scene, they work days
and then go home, maybe months and go home. But
I'm thinking this possibly he could have been working at
(09:37):
Plant Wansley, which was called Yellow Dirt. Also uh Plant Yates,
which is out of Highway sixteen. Both of them are
right along the Chatahoochee River and draw water for those
plants from the Chattahoochee, and both were involved in some
fairly headed construction back during the period that just were
taken place.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Now, the lake itself has about five hundred and twenty
five miles a shoreline. Where he was found, is it
near woods, is it near a parking lot, is it
near a campground, like you said, a cabin?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Actually where he was found at the time in ninety
it was pretty remote. It was where Georgia Highway two
nineteen crosses the Shadohooche River, close to the headwaters of
the West Point Lake. He was probably a mile down
river and he was on the western shore. He'd washed
(10:35):
ashore and he was actually found by a fisherman recognized
as being a human body and call the authorities. And
what we've described is what was found.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Do you think he was shot there at the lake
or do you think he came in through the river?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
He came in through the river. There's no doubt in
my mind about that. He had been a wash. Actually,
it was during the winter drawdown and he was ten
or fifteen feet from water up on the shoreline.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
And when you say winter draw down, you mean the
lake is just lower in the winter.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
It is west Point Lake, I think six hundred and
thirty five feet at summer proval above sea level, and
it draws down to six hundred It drops down ten
feet in the winter time. It was in March and
lake hadn't been maked back again. Of course, that does
fluctuate some with the amount of rain and whatnot. You know,
the reasion. They draw it down so to store water
(11:31):
in case, be able to store water in case have
a particular rainy season, and then don't have to dump
it all down river.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
At one time, I just wanted to be sure the
folks listening and understood what winter draw down was. I
didn't know if they would know that term. So I
just want to be sure we're all on the safe page.
So one thing that you and I talked about is
you have a skull.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
We do GBI had they retained the skull. I have
contact the crime lab. They have located that piece of
evidence all the way back to nineteen ninety and the
other remains were turned back down here after the autopsy
and they are located in the shadow Lown cemetery in
(12:14):
Lagrange and a pauper's grave. What our plan is at
this point is to contact a lab that is willing.
I I was hoping that GBI would try to extract
this DNA for us, but doesn't look like that's going
to happen, and I'll have to get see what I
(12:36):
can do to get a private lab to do it
for us.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Okay, well, I'm pretty sure we can help you that.
And you know, I talked to Kelly Lawson over there,
and she is an amazing artist and she could do
a facial reconstruction for you and go ahead and get
a phase out there. She could make a poster, and
(12:59):
you know, along with the jewelry, I think we could do.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
An unbelievable media blitz from Kansas to Colorado and say,
does anybody recognize this face along with this jewelry, because.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I'll tell you, most men, if they wear any rings,
it's a wedding ring, maybe a college ring or sports ring,
but a work ring is rare. They're out there. But
if it's not a Masonic ring or a wedding ring
or a college football you know, bowl ring, most men
don't wear a lot of jewelry. So for this man
(13:39):
to have that ring and the belt buckle, I think
that's significant.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Oh absolutely, along with that lighter it was inscribed. You know,
old Zippo lighters are hard to find, but you know
that quite hard to find. But still that was a
point where you know, everybody just about going to the
disposable stuff, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, and like you said, being engraved, I mean, that's
something you just cannot put on the shelf.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Den Graven was not a bad quality either. It was
like the jewelry store maybe had done it. Of course,
a baalpoor ring. Again, I was shocked when they said
they kept. Of course, the person that I talked to
in customer service and it's like everything else been computerized
and about now, I guess it's a possibility that if
(14:23):
you've talked to the right folks, you can find somebody
to go into an archive somewhere and maybe dig out
some information for us.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Right, and the person in customer service probably knows they
can only go back seven years, that's all their capability
is on their computer. But to your point, there's some
archive somewhere and you get the right person on the phone,
and here's the thing. Let's talk a little bit cheap.
And this is why I say to everybody listening to
Zone seven, we need your help. Y'all may think of
(14:53):
something cheap and I hadn't thought about. But you know,
every now and then on a gold case, you're gonna
hit a wall and it's nothing to do with your
investigative skills or what you've thought to do. It is
what it is. So I called the Missing Persons Unit
at the Kansas City Police Department because I thought six
(15:16):
feet one hundred and eighty with a keep on trunk
and tattoo, that's gonna take me about four minutes. But
they told me in all of their digitized files that
nineteen ninety was a gap missing. They don't have it digitized.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
And I thought something as well. You know, the only
thing separates Kansas City, Kansas and Kansas City, Missouri is
the river. Back in the day, you know, when methamphetamine
was just getting started. You know, Kansas City, Missouri was
a mess of methamp metha amphetamine capital of the world.
Did you check with Kansas City, Kansas, because that's what
was on the ring. Did you check with Missouri as well?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
No?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
But the detective that I talked about it and I
looked through NamUs. I went there instead, but I hadn't
got there yet, but I went there because of what
was on the ring. I thought, that's the most you know,
a to b to look at. But then I went
to the newspaper and I tried to find the archives myself,
and then I called a reporter at the Kansas City
(16:21):
Star and just said, I just want to know if
anybody's done some articles, if family members are looking for somebody,
if police are looking for somebody. And he said he
would go through the archives and call me. But I
don't have a response yet, but he said either way
he would call me back. So I'm hoping tomorrow, maybe Thursday,
I'll hear something.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I got to say one thing for your tenacious well
you're today.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I'm just trying to follow you. But I mean, these
are things you know a lot of times, and you
know this better than anybody. You may have something and
you say, well, I got a white female thirty to
forty five, you know, five six, whatever, and that's it.
He's got so many things that are unique about him.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
It is you know, I came out of retirement and uh,
the sheriff down here, Sheriff James Woodruff. He asked me
to come and look at some cold cases and so
far been pretty successful, and this one was one of
the ones who has been on the shelf for a
long time and uh, and there was credible work done
on it. They actually contacted the railroad and got a
list of employees. But the stumbling block is that when
(17:32):
they traded over from the Missouri Pacific and it was
assumed by the Union Pacific, it was a fair amount
of history loss there in the way of records. And
but the guy with the hit Missouri Pacific UH Historical Society,
and it's a pretty incredible outfit. I mean, they have
(17:54):
conventions and a lot of the people stay together and
they're trying to help me with this as well, or
doing all they can because they don't have access to
those records anymore in the Union Pacific at the time
they sent what they had in ninety but that was
nearly ten years after they were required. And I'm thinking
that he might have been an outside guy that was working,
(18:17):
you know, through the Union with the.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Railroad well thirty four years. You know, somebody might have
just started with the railroad and they gave it thirty years.
And if they go to maybe a convention or reunion.
You never know, they may remember, oh.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
You member, Oh you know Joe went missing because again
he's wearing the insulated coveralls, so that would be indicative
of somebody working outside.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
So was this done right after work? Was this done
on the lunch break? Was this done on the way
to work?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You know, I thought about something else too, Cheryl. We
need to check into is he could have moved his
union membership to Atlanta. Yes, And the way that works,
you know, the union companies call one outfit that a
large outfit that were doing work at Yellow Dirt that
was using union labor was Flori Daniel and they're out
(19:13):
of South Carolina, but their worldwide outfit. And I need
to be able to get in touch with a living,
breathing soul at Flori Daniel. It might have some access
to some records from back then where somebody might not
have showed up to pick up a check or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
That's smart, Chief. You know, I am a firm believer
in the media being a tool on cold cases.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, absolutely, there's nothing better.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Actually, there's nothing better. And you know, I try to
get young guys to understand that all the time. But
you know, they just say they're distrusting of the media
and whatever. But in a case like this, I believe
that's going to be the ticket.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I I do that I do as well. Information and
its ability to travel will be the only thing that
will always crime. We might get extremely lucky, and because
in ninety our guy is not going to be in
a coatisbank.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
That's right?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
If we were extremely lucky, I mean to the point
of we're talking looking at chickens teeth. By chance a
member of his family has thrown in to twenty three
and me or ancestry dot com. In those databases cross match,
we might find somebody in a family tree that's relative
of his. But other than that, it's going to be
(20:36):
word of mouth, and with the help of the media
and folks like good people like you, will be the
only thing they ever solved this one. I can't tell
you again how much I appreciate your interest and all
the things that you do. I've been very, very fortunate
in my career and I can't do anything but admire
what you do and what you have done that for
(20:58):
that matter, for the help that you rendered to me
this last little case a couple months ago where you
actually came out and gave us your time to help
us with determining where we think of homicide had taken place,
and with the information that you helped us gather, I've
been able we turned it over to Fulton County and
they've gone back now and did an extensive search in
(21:22):
the place that you've indicated that you thought there was
evidence of the crime. And had it not been for that,
I don't know if we'd got any of that done
in that case, will we prosecuted? And I think we're
going to be able to bring somebody to.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Justice for well, you know, good and well anytime you
pull up and say hop in the front seat of
patrol car, I'm gone. I mean, is an honor to
work with you. You know that. And I tell you here's
what we're gonna do. We're gonna put a story together
for Crime Online, which will include the photographs that you
have sent to me and what we talked about, just
(21:58):
a brief story, and we're going to get this thing
really pushed between Kansas City, Colorado, Georgia, and Alabama and
see what we can come up with.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Well, I prove, like again, I appreciate you know all
the help that you're doing. Because of your position, you know,
with dealing with folks in the media, you're so much
more well equipped to know the availability of being able
to use them as a tool, even more so than
I do. And again I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Here, well, you know, we both know that little low
girl out of Bibb County. I think we can get
some attention put on this thing. We'll see what we
can do. But I appreciate you too, and you know
all the Zone seven we're fixing to go to work again.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I just appreciate what you do and it's going to help.
You been to me and it's been invable, and I appreciate, Yes.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Sir, y'all almost end Zone seven. The way that I
always do with a quote for me, jewelry is a
way of keeping memories alive, Lily Collins. I'm Cheryl McCollum
and this is Zone seven.
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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