Travis Hunter's ceiling, Mason Graham's bust potential and Derek Carr Drama with Ollie Connolly

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're ducking and covering on
this Monday morning in southern California.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm at home in the garage.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
I'm joined across the sea Atlantic Ocean by my friend
Ali Connolly of the Read Optional podcast and substack.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Everyone check that out. Ali.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
You're joining us on a big morning right as we
were about to start taping a big earthquake in San Diego.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Your thoughts as a Londoner.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Absolutely terrifying, terrifying to me that you just live in
these circumstances and you kind of it off, being like,
let me just check the ticker is at five, as
it is six, totally normal Monday morning, not.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Normal, and the reason is we didn't feel it here
in la Eric Roberts, who's producing this show, he's at
the studios in Inglewood, said everyone just stood up because
what happens is you get an alert now, and this
one said emergency alert severe that the earthquake was detective,
drop cover, hold on now. They get it to you

(01:04):
sometimes ten to fifteen seconds before the actual earthquake, which
is a which is a freaky situation, and then it
never arrived. I'm sitting here in the garage. I was like, Okay,
I better get out of the garage here. This would
be the one place that collapses. Nothing happens in LA.
But our friend Daniel Jeremiah, he sounds safe. It was
in San Diego. We didn't feel it down here. But
five point two is no joke. That's the official reporting.

(01:25):
So hopefully everyone's safe.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
We have important stuff to get to.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
I mean, maybe the Earth is fighting back from this
Derek Carr story that we're somehow going to lead the
show with in mid April. I'm shocked we're leading the
show with a Derek Carr story.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
But I have Ali. I have you on.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
You're one of my favorite draft analysts, among other things,
and we're going to go through some of the players
you would want a draft that you wouldn't want to draft.
On the defensive side, we've given defense a little short
shrift so far on NFL Daily, so we're going to
focus on defense. And I gave you like a homework
assignment to do, and yet as I went through all
these positions, I just have a lot of questions for you.
So we're going to mix in the players you don't want.

(02:05):
But I just have questions on the defensive side, are
you ready?

Speaker 3 (02:09):
You're exciting? No plays? I don't want greg, but value
becomes the question.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Now.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
I'm very different than consense. I think the ship, particularly
up front. I feel like there's some players that you
wouldn't want. Why am I blanking on what's his name?
The eddresser from Ohio State? Why am I blanking?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Oh Jack? So yah, yeah, I get out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
I did listen to your your edge and defensive tackle
prospect evaluations on the Read Optional podcast, and like I said,
everyone should check that out. We'll get to those a
little later. And then I realized this is going to
infect my thinking. I don't want to just repeating them.
So I've actually not listened since then as I went
through and did my own work. So a lot of

(02:50):
your answers will be surprising to me, but not not
in terms of the edge players. But yeah, let's start
with Derek Carr because this news just it hits my
sweet spots. It cracked me up that we got this
news from the national reporters. It was Schefter, it was
Ian Rappaport out of nowhere saying that Derek Carr might
play football in twenty twenty five, but might not because

(03:12):
of a shoulder injury that we hadn't heard anything about before.
And there's like, there's a lot of directions this could go.
But my first thing was, well, why is this coming
out right now? And then I looked and who is
starting their offseason program Monday morning? The Saints and the Cowboys,
So those two things seemed very connected to me. This

(03:32):
is a guy, Derek Carr, who does not particularly seem
like he wants to be on the Saints, even though
they desperately want him for whatever reason, and this news
comes out before he's supposed to show up for work.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
It's just a total mess.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
And man, they are the team, along with the Browns,
that I think are are right now, the team that
I would not want to root for because they're just
run so poorly.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
What do you think, Oh yeah, just an abject dissess.
I mean, by the end of next season, they will
have paid six seven of his contract while only accounted
for twenty seven percent of the salary cap. That might
be the single worst move anyone has done non Deshaun
Watson division in the recent history of the league to
a for a guy that was pretty clear was breaking
down where you add open conversations about his value and

(04:17):
worth of the position anyway, to a team that was
ready for a rebuild and tear down because they had
mortgaged and credit carded their cap to the hill. Anyway,
It is just the worst possible scenario, except for the
fact that he gives them the easy out. If they
were a sensible franchise to detonate the entire building and
say this is three years. We've got to take our
medicine and it's gonna be two really rough years of

(04:38):
rolling with Kellum for three years, and yeah, because of
who runs the show, I don't think it's gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Right, But they could have done that before they just
locked him in for three more years. That was the
whole thing, is they just to get in the weeds
a little bit on the money. Them changing his salary
to assigning bonus this year guaranteed him his contract this year.
It probably made a one year deal, but also pushed
all this pain of money into the next two future

(05:05):
years when they could have just eaten their medicine now.
And the whole idea was, well, we want to be
able to spend in free agency this year. We want
to contend this year. And so as my friends at
the Saints Block Party podcast put it, they like did
all this with Derek Carr this year just so they
can sign Justin Reid and like bring back Chase Young,
which I like Justin Reid was a good signing, but

(05:26):
like they've changed their outlook for the next three years.
And the thing that's crazy is it doesn't sound like
he wants to be there. He wouldn't play ball with
them on restructuring his contract. That's why they had to
do what they had to do. We heard from outside
sources and you didn't hear the car can't push back,
and usually they do push back. That like he would
have been fine if they wanted to move him somewhere else,

(05:49):
and so him possibly putting this news out. We don't
know how it came out, but it sure doesn't seem
like it came out from the Saints because the reporting
from from my friend Adam is that they're play of
high up people in that building. They didn't even know
his soulder had a problem. So it sounds like this
is Derek Carr messing with the Saints. Like I could

(06:09):
play through this surgery, but I might not really want to.
So if you can think of any way to get
me off this roster in the meantime, that would be great.
And if not, I might just get the surgery and sorry,
you're out of luck and I'm just don't really want
to hang out with you anymore.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
But that seems like not giving the Saints enough agency
in the situation. This is just ranking competence. They could
have sat down and figured this out. Surely, or at
least I've had a true physical have said that we're
only going to convert the contract of you do X
or why and it's in writing, and clearly that is
not what happened. Or maybe it did and he's just
completely screwed them over. That would be fun if that

(06:45):
came out. I love when we get the now you
tell us four thousand word think piece about this stuff.
So I'm looking forward to that reporting. I think it's
going to get really crabby and nasty and that that'll
be exciting. I just look at that situation and think
it is the one place in the league right now
where you just would not want to work. I think
the environment in the building is completely shot toed. This
is obviously not gonna help. I am semi intrigued by

(07:06):
a year of Ratler. I think that could make things fun.
At least you'd be living on the edge of your seat.
I think, if you're rooting for a team, do you
want to go down with Derek Kahan the alms flailing
by week six? So you at least get to experience
rautlea bwl know whing you got a chance to auch
in the future.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
No, I feel bad for Derek Carr in a certain way,
which is just that. No other like late Thursday or
Friday News dump whatever this was of a starting quarterback
potentially being out for this season has ever had a
higher approval radium among the fan base than this. Everyone celebrated,

(07:41):
Everyone said this is great. They don't care. They would
rather see Rattler. The problem is that the two possible
scenarios here are that the Saints partly knew about it
ahead of time, and we're just like, we don't care.
You've played through all these other injuries. By the way,
he hasn't been healthy for three years, not consistently healthy,
three straight years, hasn't been healthy. That's a problem with
why you're giving them all this money. Either they knew

(08:02):
about this and that they assumed he was going to
play through it because hey, we're giving you all this
money and he's played through it in the past, which
is horrible.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Why are you Why are you doing that?

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Why you're giving this Or they didn't know about it,
which is even worse. So it's bad and it makes
them more likely to take shad Or Sanders, I guess,
but I always thought that was their most likely outcome
of shad Or Sanders was him joining the Saints, partly
because people I trust have thought they've been in on
quarterbacks this whole time, and partly just because I think

(08:33):
he will fall to them, and that's a logical landing spot,
and they could they could kind of start over with
Shoudar and Derek Carr for you know, one year and
and now that they're sitting there at nine, it kind
of lets everyone else know. If anyone wanted to trade
ahead to take Sugar. I don't think that's going to happen.
That would be the spot to jump ahead of the Saints,
do you? I don't know, what do you think about

(08:54):
that fit with Kellen Moore kind of starting out with
Shadiar Sanders potentially.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, that's a brutal one to me, and I would
not be interested that if I was the Saint. I
look at Shoudo and am a Shouda fan. I think
I maybe like him a little tick more than consensus.
But I think his game boils down to him and
he's massively overthought in my opinion, because of the name,
because of the brand, and I just watch his game
and I think at his mess and there are issues
with not playing with enough rhythm, taking too many sacks,

(09:19):
some sloppy decision making, but I just think he's Brock Perdy.
It is point and shoot, rhythm based thrower, and he
tortures people on in breaking rounds. That is where he
will make his money in the league. It was not
enough of it last season because the offensive line was
a horror show. The entire offense was puke inducing. It
was just an embarrassment to watch for the most part.
But his best stuff comes rhythm, base hit the back
football pops out on him, breaking stuff that is not

(09:42):
what Kellen Moore wants to do. When Brock Perdy arrived
in the league. And I'm talking about Brock Perdy when
we see him at his very best, which is just
immaculately efficient with maybe one or two bits of offscript
gems in there, rather than it being this guy's a
creator for us. This guy can change the box count
in the rung game. That's where Kellen's had most of
his six Someone bails me out of two dud play
calls in a huff, and it makes me look pretty clever,

(10:04):
and we change the box count either by having an
old time running by or by the quote about being
a downhill flumping threat. Shrudora is neither of those things.
She would have to have to me a really clean,
immaculate ecosystem for him to be this kind of point
and shoot point guard distributor. And I just don't see
that fit with Kellen Moore. I think he's a way
better fit with Stefanski. I just think that value would
be too high to do it that early in the draft.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, that makes sense to me.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
And yet, if I was a Saints fan and I'm
thinking about how can we salvage this situation this season?
They have not taken a first round quarterback since Archie Manning.
That that should be the stat that everyone keeps saying
as opposed to the Falcons not having a pass Rusher
since John Abraham or whatever it is, I at least

(10:49):
can see a future where, Okay, this season's going to
be a mess. Mickey Loomis might not last longer. Kellen
Moore might not even last longer. But I don't know
if you're at least give us some quarterback that we
could be excited about in two or three years, and
sugar standards would then be on the roster.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
I could live with that if I was a Saints fan.
You say that, but you know how this goes. He
comes and he plays eighteen games, he gets beat totally
behind a poor offensive line, about offensive system, and then
everyone's asking for the next guy. I just don't see
what the upside is that you want to get the guy.
I think he's a major environmental quarteback, not with any
of the off the field personality stuff and the things
people over think purely in terms of the scheme of football.

(11:26):
Where will he be at his best? You need to
craft layups. He needs to go and polete for someone
in the Ben Jonson style of things, in the Klint
Kubiak even style of things. Who was that last season?
That's just not the way Kellen Moore does things.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
I did just want to spend some time on this
before we got deeper into the draft, because it is
fascinating and hilarious. Like Derek Carr, according to social media,
at least as of late last week, was in Europe
on a family vacation, and the fact that he almost
clearly didn't want to be there, and that most of

(11:59):
the fan base and maybe chunks of the front office,
maybe even the head coach didn't want him to be there,
but Mickey Loomis did, and then he re signs him,
and then they're.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
In this whole. It's going to be a cat and
mouse game.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
I think maybe he's setting it up where like, look,
if they take Shadar Sanders, I have an easy exit.
I have an excuse now, and maybe if I go
to another team, I will play for them and I
won't need that shoulder surgery. We'll see what happens there.
But I meant to bring up Sanders there because I
actually think Lewis Riddick's Twitter account has been newsworthy, which

(12:31):
is that he has been saying that the ninth pick
is interesting for Sanders as a landing spot, and he's
very close to the Sanders family apparently because he played
with Dion and he had this quote that he that
shoulder hopes that he doesn't go top three. Essentially he

(12:52):
doesn't want to go to the Giants, and Dion literally
retweets it with the eyes emoji confirming what Lewis Riddick
is saying. So they're based telling us they want to
go to the Saints, and so just Newsworthy whise, I
kind of think this is going to happen unless someone
trades up.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
I'm with you that is probably going to happen because
Mickey Lewis is trying to save his job and the
best thing you can do is throw a dart the darboard.
Hope you hitting a quarter butt. You get to hang
around for twelve years. That's just how the game kind
of works. But I should know maybe wants to go
there because he's scanning through the top ten and saying,
I mean saying, I don't want to go second or
third with the contractual difference. I just don't buy a
toll on the ego boosts of going second or third
when you look at the roster and the projected outlook

(13:31):
for the Saints. So it makes sense it was, you know,
the Niners or a team that had fallen from contention
out of really about injury sies.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
I can't believe this team is in this range to.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
Say, the one situation you want to go to in
the league right now is the Saints and does not buy.
I think that's very much like I've been seeing some
of the reports. Say, hey, maybe some teams have me
in a second or third round. Great, I might'sa about
the first round. I don't want to sit there on
draft night and look silly that I think we'll play
more into it that oh I cannot wait to go
play for kellermore and a really ill fitting roster.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Right, And yeah, maybe it's a South thing. Dion said
he likes the colors of the Saints, but maybe it's
that he basically has an idea that the Giants aren't
going to take him. There's not another logical landing spot,
and so that's the highest that he could possibly go.
So I mentioned the Cowboys started their off season playing
Michael Barsons showed up for it, though he's lifting weight,
so just that might not be as dramatic in terms

(14:20):
of his contract. Just a couple other small things I
wanted to mention. Drew Locke is back with the Seahawks.
He's so they're probably I don't know if that makes
any difference for their draft, but you know he's the
backup right now to Sam Darnold. Jalen Petrie and Kyler
Gordon got well deserved contracts from their respective team. Kyler
Gordon the slot cornerback for the Bears. Jalen Petrie that

(14:41):
the safety with the Texans. And then the one item
I do want to get your thoughts out a little
bit is Joe Flack goes back with the Browns. You
only got four million dollars guaranteed, so that's that's like
third quarterback money. But I thought that, paired with the
Kenny Pickett quote, I'm not just here to hang out,
was a delightful quarterback room to set up Kenny Pickett,

(15:04):
Joe Flacco, and maybe a second or third round quarterback.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
I guess I'll throw it to you this way, like which,
assuming they're not taking Sanders, which one would you want
to throw in the mix there with Kenny Pickett and
Joe Flacco, Because I can't imagine that's the only plan
is to have those two guys.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
No, I think that that middle class tier of quarterbacks
is bias biware territory. I know a lot of people
like Tyler shuk I get it. I watch it. I
see all the pro style elements. I see the arm.
I also see a guy who was completely afraid of
throwing under pressure and will consistently turn his entire body
when someone is even within a sniff of him. And

(15:41):
you just cannot play without no step froze. In the NFL,
you can't play without the pocket caving in on you.
And so he is the one where I think I
would maybe close my eyes and because of the age
being twenty five, and maybe he slips a little bit,
because of some of the medical concerns, and we're in
the third round, I would close my eyes and say
let's take the punt. I would just be worried of
me in a Brandon Weed, a situation where we have

(16:01):
a guy who at the end of a rookie contract
is going to be twenty nine years old and he
doesn't want to throw in the fire, which is a
lot of what they got in that room, which is
a forty year old guy who maybe won't want to
throw into fire as he turns full at one he
did do lust time we saw him, but maybe as
he gets old he doesn't want to and can he
Pickett who is the most pressure vulnerable Quilt's back in
the league.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, that's a good call because flat like Browns fans
thinking Flacco. First of all, he wasn't as good. You know,
it was fun. It was a fun moment in time.
I'm not taking that away. Like some of the throws
he made if you just made the top twenty Joe
Flacco throws on the Browns were incredible and just fun
to watch. But I think it confirms that they're unlikely

(16:40):
to take Sanders. I never really expected that they were
in that mix, that they were ever going to trade
up to take cam Ward anyway, So it's probably going
to be Flacco, it's probably gonna be pick It, and
it's going to be someone in the middle rounds. Also,
Pat Peterson retired happy trails to him, What a great player,
you're so good breaking down. Give me just any Pat
Peterson thoughts because we talked about our last show with

(17:03):
Ross Tucker.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Just like, I just like giving these.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
Guys a little love on the on the way out,
because that to me, how many like locked in Hall
of Fame cornerbacks have there been in the last ten years.
I'm not sure, but I feel like Pat Peterson is
one of those guys. Whether it's his first year or
third year, he will be a Hall of Fame cornerback,
like one of the one of the best to do it.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
He should be, and one of our last great man
everywhere he goes. True, Covicornas is just not the way
teams are playing anymore, haven't played for a long time
outside of sure many types still for it is a
little bit more. You just play one sideline, but I
truly plunk him on anyone, fallow them anywhere. We don't
get those guys anymore, even setansaus God and that they
do in a different style. So just getting up in

(17:43):
someone's face, beating the crap out of them, up front them,
falling them ever all over the field of doing it
for eight nine years at the highest possible level, we
don't get those guys anymore.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, and it was part of fun. Teams didn't didn't
quite get over the hump. But happy trails again to
Pat Peterson. All right, let's come back. Well, we'll take
a quick break. We'll talk about if Travis Hunter could
be in that class of cornerbacks, among many other defensive
questions I've got for Ali Connelly.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
After this.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Back on NFL Daily, we have confirmed with Daniel Jeremiah
he's okay. His one tweet huge earthquake is a little
like that's not enough information. He's gotta tell us more.
But yeah, the San Diego area rocked on this Monday morning.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
We're up here in.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
La Ali, and it's time to start talking defensive prospects.
And part of the reason I wanted you on for this,
it's because I already mentioned I listened to that Defensive
Tackle podcast and I listened to The Edge too, and
that was that was back in February, and your guys' take.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
On Mason Graham.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
It was you and John Ledyard, who is on talking
Quarterbacks just a week ago. So I recommend everyone check
check that out. Your take on Mason Graham was so
off consensus that again, I was like, I don't want this.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
This is going to become my take. I'm a little worried.
I went back.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
I did watch him. I see what you guys are saying.
I'm not all the way there because he is a
fun prospect. My theory on Mason Graham, and you can
tell me if you disagree. Is just he is the
prospect where the makeup of this draft class has the
biggest impact. And by that I mean in a normal
draft class, Like is he a better prospect than Elijah Kantsey?

(19:31):
I know they are different in some ways, but to
me they're similar in other ways. Is he like that
much different of a prospect? Don't I don't think so
from my humble evaluation. And then he would be going
nineteen or twenty two as like an interesting, you know,
sub rusher at first that gets in and hopefully gets
seven eight nine sacks. But now he's getting talked about

(19:53):
as number four pick in the draft, and that's the
main difference with him to me. You guys seemed even
more down and I'm that like he's always on the
ground that you would not want to take this guy
and you just don't see what other people are seeing.
So explain what you are seeing with Mason Graham, the
defensive tackle from Michigan who is projected by a lot
of people to go in the top five.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah, I think your point is right. Ordinarily, those kind
of undersized, explosive upfield subrushes, which is what I think
he'll be in the league. They become kind of Internet darlings,
and they're usually projecting like the twenty twenty three range,
and there's usually three or four people four in love
with every class, and the league just says, no, we're good,
thank you. They can go nineteenth twenty if they don't
go in the top ten the way you have them,

(20:34):
because they end up being extraordinarily fun quick off the
ball plays in college you can just embarrass guys who
are as quick off the snap as they are. I
think when you get into these interior subbrushes, people I
think fixate almost too much on the initial twitch off
the snap, which is important and you want to beat
people to the set point. But the guys who win
in that area with pure just speed off the ball

(20:56):
are legitimately the greatest plays in the history of the position.
It is Aaron Donald Warren sapp like, that's what we're
talking about, where it's true quicks off the ball, and
when you think about how they actually win, it's not
the same as off the edgeway. You just beat someone
out the cleat and they can't close the distance in time.
There's just so much mass in there. Usually they can
draw some kind of double team help the center Panics
goes and helps over, So you really have to get

(21:17):
under the pad level and drive. And that's really how
they win, is there's a true strength to how they
finish the thing. Donald was not Donald because he was
quicker than everyone. He was stronger than everyone, he was
more intelligent than everyone. And when you watch Mason Graham,
there's a lot of just wasted rush where it is
pure speed and he doesn't have the power to drive
past guys once they establish some kind of position, even
if they're not properly aligned, even if they're off balance.

(21:38):
He just doesn't really drive and close. And I think
that's why you see when you go through some of
the pressure figures, the sack figures. He is disruptive, but
you don't have that kind of five, six, ten, twelve
sax season for a guy who should be talking people
inside when they're designing one on one rushes for a
number four overall pick in the draft. So to me,
it's more the strength and it really jumps out to
me when you go and watch him against Texas Oregon,

(22:00):
best teams in the country. They gain plan at the
projected number four pick in the draft, they double team
and climb off him every single time. They bullied him
in the trenches. So we talked about a guy who
may not be able to play on rundowns and then
becomes your sub rusher where you went in a three
ticuleven fly up field. So now we're down already. We're
cutting the snaps basically in a third, so we're getting

(22:21):
maybe forty snaps a game. And the way he would
have to win is purely speed based. It's purely in
the hand fight. And even in the speed and hand fight,
he can get four or five moves in where other
guys can fit one. I get all that stuff. Incredibly
fun player to watch and scout. It takes a long
time to actually happen. It's a lot of jab step fate,
jab step go the other way. The ball is out

(22:41):
In the NFL, you're playing Jared Goff. The ball is
out in two point six seconds and we don't have
four seconds to get home.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, are there are some incredible place He's a fun
defensive tackle to watch, and maybe that's that's where the
layman's eyes just are attracted to. There's this play against
Ohio State where he forces an interception he's got like
he's got that quick move and they actually double team
him and he does push it, but the momentum keeps

(23:07):
them going.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
I get what you're saying that.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
There's also other plays where like he starts in one
gap and he's getting bounced over and you're right, he's
on the ground a decent amount. And there's there's sometimes
where you're thinking, man, if this was in the NFL,
forget gap integrity, Like he is all over the place.
But I threw this out like, Hey, I do a
show with Daniel Jeremiah. We've got Mina chimes by the way,
on the show later this week. Check out forties and

(23:30):
freegms with me, DJ and Mina. And you know, I
threw this out there like could this be a guy
that couldn't really be on the field that much on
running downs?

Speaker 2 (23:38):
And I'm kind of getting this idea from you guys.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
So here you have the opportunity to really change how
people are thinking because I'm I'm coming to the guy
DJ with this and he was insulted by the question
because it's not just draft knicks that are putting him this. Hiats,
it's moved this, it's Daniel Jeremiah, it's it's mel Kiper,
It's it's seemingly everyone and potentially teams. I'm not really sure.

(24:01):
And he was insulted by it, thinking that he is
a good run defender. And I will say, like he
does have a nose watching when I did go to
watch on my own, he does have a nose for
the ball as a run defender when he can get
off his block or whatever, like, he does make plays
in the running game. What is it that I guess
that you're seeing that you think maybe these other people

(24:25):
aren't as much in terms of his run defense.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
I think it's it's not necessarily about when you just
evaluate player by player and you go trade by trade.
That's one way of doing things. The projection to the
league of what does the league demanded these people? So
where does he align actually in the front?

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Is he a four? I? Is he holding the point?

Speaker 3 (24:42):
I get there's a lot of immense And I'm not
saying this guy is like undraftable. I just what I'm
taking with a top ten pick. I think there's better
value further down the board than he is. I have
a high second round grade on him. It's just I
don't think he's anyway. Yea, I think exactly what you
said is the right situation where he's in that collija
caantci arrange to me when you're asking the question did
we draft a slip or in the first round or
can you play all three downs? I think the wrong

(25:03):
game stuff. Where he's at his best is quick penetration.
He's just so quick off the snap. He's really got
jets in his feet, and he just beats people to
the backfield. But the inline strength just doesn't hang. I mean,
like I said, Texas, Oregon, Michigan State, Minnesota, you can
go on and on and on. Teams are game planning
against him. It is doubles all across the board and
they run at him knowing they can displace him, throw

(25:23):
him out the way, And there's even a bunch of
one on ones where once guys grip him and they
win the initial phase of the rep, they can just
move him. And then there's huge lanes everywhere because he
really wants to fight. He's such an effort player that
he just gets himself out opposusly and trying any different
way to get off the block and try and fight
through to the backfield. So unless he's winning immediately off
the snap of the NFL level, which is really hard

(25:44):
to do. As I said, it sounds good in theory
when you go through the prospects when you think about
who's winning in the league on early downs, to be
a guy who just wins in the backfield, hope and
over again, you're talking about the best of the best,
top five to six players ever, not top five six
in the league at the time. That many guys who
just rip off the bowl and every single week you
look up and saying, oh, it's two CFLs in the backfield.

(26:05):
Those guys usually come from the edge, they don't come
from the interior.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Right, and that because of that, I did expect coming
in that his tape would just be more dominant. It's good,
it's like exciting tape, but it's not like he was
racking up tons of production as just this best defensive
player in college football. He's got like five hundred snaps
the last couple of seasons, and he was a very

(26:29):
very good, like useful player, but he wasn't like dominating.
In fact, I'm basic enough because I when I go
through these prospects, I realize I don't know what I
don't know in terms of the breadth of watching a
ton of these guys games and comparing that to past
examples and comparing to that to what it looks like.
So I'm not trying to be an expert, but my

(26:51):
base just like if I was drafted a team, I
would rather. I feel better about Kenneth Grant, who's right
next to him, because you watch those two guys together,
and that guy is huge and he's got pretty good
movement skills, and I feel like I can understand at
least enough that I've seen enough at the pro level
like that those movement skills that Kenneth Grant has will

(27:13):
track to me and you're probably gonna have a pretty
good run defender because he's just huge. He's three hundred
and forty pounds. So I wouldn't want to take him
in the top ten either, But if I just had
to take a guy, I feel more comfortable that Kenneth
Grant actually looks like a guy that's just gonna be
on an NFL team for five to ten years, and
there actually is some upside because he moves great for

(27:34):
a guy that's I don't know what how tall he is,
but he's massive.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
In three hundred and four.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
He moves great for that kind of guy, And there
are there are some plays that you look at Kenneth
Grant and to me he looks like an intriguing top
twenty five type of pick.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, I think it comes down to the two of them.
And I talked about this Wee John all the time.
Grunt is a guy who gets you to the playoffs.
Graham is a guy who will make a play for
you in the playoff. Why everyone goes, oh, that's Mason
Graham with a huge second third down. But to get there,
someone's got to play eighty percent of the snaps in
the regular season where we can actually, you know, play
some defense, try and get to the thing. And Grant

(28:07):
is a ginormous human being you mentioned who looks more
like a nose, but it's got really good lateral quicks,
So I think there's more passwadge potentially in there. The
thing with him is just technically he is all over
the place. He sells what he's doing based in his stance,
and by the end of the season people knew exactly
what was happening. He would changes his foot position essentially
in his hand placement based on what he was trying
to do after the snap. So there's a lot that

(28:28):
you've got to work through with him. He slow off
the ball, not because he doesn't have the pop, but
just there's a bunch of false stepping. He's trying to
gather speed rather than just exploding off the snap. You
watch Graham and he just goes and it's a forward
lead and explodes into the backfield. So there's a lot
of technical work that needs to be done, But you
just get the raw player, which is guys that big
shouldn't move that way, particularly laterally, he will leave two

(28:49):
gaps in one go.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Just don't see guys do that.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Jamari Caldwell at Oregon exact same things who work and
of these can we mold them into something as a
better value if we can snag these guys at the
top of the second round, middle of the second round,
and it is going and trying to push a guy
in the top ten, where with great him, I just
think that it's way more scheme dependent than the projections
are suggesting, and I think there will be teams who
play more odd front defense. You maybe are more in

(29:13):
the blitz game world where they look at him and
go he really needs to go and play where it's
four down and four flyers up front on passing downs,
where you can get all the stunt games involved, where
we can give him some rest on some of the
rundown stuff, and he just fits way more in that
San Francisco vogue of the last three or four years
that he does. Why you can just drop him on
any defense of the league and say he can be
a benchmark, foundational piece for us.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
But if, yeah, if he gets to one of those
teams and he makes enough splash plays in this draft,
ultimately they'll be happy enough. But I think there's bigger
bus potential. I agree with you guys there, at least
that's what I think. I'm not going to put words
in your mouth. I feel like there he's a boomer
bust type of type of guy. I'm going to go
through my big questions for you first and then we'll
get to your guys. You want or not my question

(29:58):
because watching too Hot Campbell, I'll.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Give my opinion afterwards.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
But my question for you is do you think his instincts,
for lack of a better term, will be a problem.
Joh Hot Campbell, Alabama off ball linebacker pretty clearly by
most people's account, that the best off ball linebacker in
the class. I haven't heard your thoughts on that, but
at least consensus wise, he's the only one that's expected
to go in the first fifty picks, and he could
go in the top fifteen picks. Do you think his

(30:26):
instincts will be a problem like it's been for some
of the off ball linebackers that have been drafted lately.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, I think off ball linebackers just a position now
and now is a enough ball lineback a scale for
like the first seven years of my career. So it's
very near and did to my hall. And I am
very brutal with these guys when they're coming out of
the draft, And if you just go through the recent
seasons of guy's it takes like two three years now,
it's like playing Quot Tobiaco something, particularly safety in the
league right now. It takes a long time for these
guys so to be able to play. So I think

(30:52):
even when people say out do they have the instincts,
I'm not sure any of these guys come out now
and have the ability to play in a full NFL
defense from the get go. It's just so taxic to do.
You watch guys like Kwaywalker, who was going to be
this smooth piece all around, just lost. We're in season
two three now still just has no idea where he's
going off the time. It's just a really, really difficult
translation to the league. With Campbell, I think you are

(31:12):
betting purely on athleticism, and I actually think that he
maybe is a better pure edge rusher than he is
actually a stand up linebacker. I think if he just
played in the edge full time, people be really fired up.
He has real real speed and can swoop off the edge,
and they use him a lot in the blitz game.
They mug him up, they let him fly down field,
and so I think he's he to me is really

(31:33):
scheme centric of if it's a really attack based defense
where it's kind of mug drop or just really dropped
a distance you can see a lot of the picture
and then drive down field. That's where I think he
can be. Okay, he's really quick linearly, I just don't
think he has quite enough wiggle feel in the box.
If you're playing in a more traditional style of defense,
you're playing him more of a zone based defense where

(31:54):
he's really going to have to play in tight confines
early in the down and distance. I just don't think
that's where he's going to be. So I get old
at the time, speculation makes a ton of sense to me.
You want to have a really like hope that Blitz
package really creative. I think him being more of the
move pieces where the value comes with him and being
just a traditional dropbox see it find at linebacker.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, so he's two hundred and thirty five pounds or
at least he I think at the combine he was,
but he was recruited as an edge player, like a
big time recruit, and they've they've just had great edges
there and he ended up settling in as an off
by linebacker. I loved watching him, and the reason I
asked you about the instincts is partly because like, this
is the guy I want to watch succeed of all

(32:35):
the defensive players, the most of anyone, Like he was awesome.
But I also recognize some of the fun players coming
into the draft at linebacker have have burned evaluators, and
so I'm not sure what to think because he just
turned twenty one years old, Like he won't turn twenty
one until next offseason, and the way he moves like,

(32:59):
and the the force that he can play with at
his size, although he does look small sometimes going up
against like the left tackles and everything. So I'm I'm
happy to hear you say that, because I'm wondering if, like,
is he too small to rush the passer consistently, But
he's good at taking guys in the open field once
he does read a play and gets after it. I mean,
he reminds me of Navarro Bowman, like he is just awesome,

(33:22):
and so I like want to love this guy, and
I do love this guy coming into the draft. Like
if I rooted for a team and they ended up
with Johad Campbell, I'd be pumped about the ceiling of
it all.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
I don't know if it's gonna work.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
He does, like doesn't seem like you read stuff as
quickly and biting on these play acts and all that stuff.
But he could be like a really fun player, and
I get it in this class if he ends up
going higher, either higher than people think or certainly in
the top twenty, I think he's gonna end up going
because the upside seems really high to me.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah, particularly when you factor in the fact he can
maybe play multiple positions for you, be a move piece,
and the value just explodes from there and if you
can get something. The coverage chops is just the issue.
But there aren't any of these linebackers coming in the
league who have outstanding coverage chops. It's really difficult. The
coverage is different in the NFL. Spacing is different, the
geometry the field is different. It has taking them all

(34:14):
a really long time. The thing I look for with
these guys is can they play sift and find football?
Can they kind of dance through the crevices the line
of scrimmage. The guy I loved a couple of years ago,
Dane Henley, was like the guy I thought was a
top fifteen player in the class. He just had this
ability he was a former running back, to just navigate
through the traffic at the line of scrimmage. And if
you can get that down, you can start to figure
out and layer in the coverage stuff. It's pretty easy

(34:36):
to do. I do think cambell is a bit more
freight train built. Why it's just like see it, attack it,
run my face through it, which is.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
What I want.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
That's the old school linebacker, and that's like, well linebael football,
go smash everything in the face and let's have fun.
I don't know if he's quite got the craft there yet,
but as you mentioned, he's so young, and if you
can get himTo a system where he's allowed to play
with a little bit more freedom, positionally, I think he
can be so impactful in year one based off just
raw athleticism and feel, and then you could get more
of the true linebacker is still year three year full Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
I saw in the Bob m again right up that
no inside linebackers drafted in the last four years have
made the Pro Bowl, which is crazy, like like at
any point in their career, obviously not just as a
as a rookie. There's just like been no Pro bowlers,
and Pro Bowl is a pretty low bar because so
many people it is.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
I don't think pro I think with the lineback is
slightly it's if you have to come in with name
brand value before it takes a while for people to
catch up. I think that Devin Lloyd and people leftief
this played at an old pro level last season. I
thought the Dan Henley played an all Pro level less season.
So those guys, I think would be outstanding. You just
have to go with name brand value and have splash
plays I think to make the Pro Bowl.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, and Henley is a good shout out as a
developmental track. He's gotten pretty good pretty fast. Good job
by you scouting that. I hope John Campbell he does
make people miss occasionally, like his great plays where he
does make someone missed while attacking forward are just awesome.
So I'm rooting for him a right. I'm going to

(36:03):
keep giving you questions. My next question is on Jalen Walker.
So I'm sticking to the top of these projected boards
because if you're coming into this process late, you know,
Jalen Walker is a guy who played a decent amount
of off ball linebacker at Georgia, and he's going to
get drafted as an edge rusher. That's kind of become consensus.

(36:25):
I know you guys taped your podcast on Jalen Walker.
Now it's been like two months ago. In the time
that since you've taped it, it's become consensus that, of
course he's an edge that's going to be the ideal use.
And I do think NFL teams are on that. Even
if it took a little while for the media to
track up. My question with him is just like is
he special enough? Like and maybe he is, maybe he

(36:45):
isn't do you think he is a special enough athlete
to be like worth of all the possible players that
you could take in that top five to six range, Like,
what can he do that makes him worth that sort
of pick.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
I think what he could do for you is the
ability to move around and play him inside some as
a stand up linebacker, and you know he's got experience
chopping out in the coverage. You can get really creative
with pressure groups. He becomes like a coaches player where
the coach is like banging the table being like, please
get me a piece, where it's like stealing three roster spots,
and I can get in the lab with the staff
and get really creative. And then he's just got so
much explosivity upfield that you can just rely on him

(37:25):
in more of a four down situation, let him go
fly up field. But I just think that for the
excitement with the athleticism, I'm with you. I don't think
it's quite top tier athleticism, and just the lack of experience,
the lack of note out of how to actually win
it's all jab steps and a little bit tentative once
he's going one on one in the pass rush. Even

(37:45):
dating back a couple of years, he was an edge defender.
Then he moved him off ball. He was completely out
to see off ball, just did not know what was happening.
We're just kind of see things and charge around all
over the place. So I don't think he'll play there
in the league, But if a team can get him,
I think that the bet will be he's a primary
edge defender Froze, but we have this where we can
maybe roll ten twelve snaps a game where he plays

(38:06):
a mulked up linebacker. It opens up more for as
we can get an extra passers from the field, and
now we're all high fiving on the sideline because we've
got a cool pressure package.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, and I could see that because he does seem
strong enough to.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Do it, like he gets after it.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Whereas like if he landed with Jacksonville and he's sort
of the third edge, but they use him inside on
passing downs. Like, I don't know how good their defensive
staff is going to be, that's an open question, but
like he could be kind of fun there. I could
see it that you could see him having the ceiling,
but again more kind of like Graham, a little bit

(38:42):
boom or busty to me. For a guy going this high, yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
He would have to be a true top fifteen sixteen
edge defender. I think for the investment be worth it.
Whereas it feels an awful lot, Like we get these
players where they're really versatile, think of all the things
that creative things we can do, and eventually you get
to like week nine the season, like Ravin just had
a really good edge defend and we signed a solid
eno foff ball linebacker than chasing a two player in
one who doesn't quite have the goods either.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Okay, let's let's actually take a quick break. We're gonna
come back.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
I have a few more questions and then we're going
to go through some of the players that you want
and don't want on your team back in a minute.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Back on NFL Daily.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
One thing I always think while you're like cranking through
all these tapes of like all these players, like.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
How do you have the time right? How much do
you watch?

Speaker 1 (39:38):
It seems like you watch an extraordinary amount of tape
on these guys.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
Probably better asking my wife, I think than me. I
don't see friends of family for months of a time.
I mean, you've text me before, Do I ever reply?
It takes a long time. I just to not disturb on.
I sit in the basement for twelve hours a day. Okay,
that's how you do it. And lack of kids helped, maybe,
you know. Yeah, it is tough to get Ali. That's

(40:04):
why we're going We're going long on this show. You know,
we got to wait for the reply.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
We got to make it all work up with the
extraordinary time change over to the UK. So when we
got him, I want to know the answers to these questions.
So that's why I'm asking them. Let's go to Let's
go to Cornerback. And with Will Johnson at Michigan, he
was one of those players. Maybe the more I watched,
the less I liked. Maybe, and maybe it's not just

(40:30):
about comparing the two years, which I don't know. He
was fine, he just didn't play that much this year
for the most part at Cornerback. I just I guess
I want to hear you. I want to hear your
opinions on on Will Johnson, and like, what concerns you
the most about him? Michigan cornerback who had a big

(40:51):
time year in twenty twenty three, just didn't play as
much in twenty four. Maybe had kind of a mix
that best game against Fresno State, which got people, But
it's also that you're only looking at a couple of
games from this season before he got her.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
What are you concerned about?

Speaker 1 (41:05):
By the way, as we're taping this on Monday, he
did a Pro Day, but he did not run the
forty at the Pro Day, so long speed was a
bit of a concern for him, and you'll.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Never find that forty time out for Will Johnson.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
By the way, my main issues with him is general
toughness at the line of scrimmage, technique, impressed coverage. He's
not a true man. Everywhere you go cornerway, you just
plant him on one side the field or one player
and say, go match that.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Guy the entire game.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
And he has this kind of perfect, sinewy modern corner build.
It looks like, oh, this is Christian Gunzas. We got
another one, and he's been builled as the top guy
for two seasons. Right, It's like, hey, Will Johnson's coming,
Don't worry about cornerback. If you're at the top of
the draft. He just isn't that kind of physical one
to one player upfield. And this is something to me
and John and being banging on about now for years
when people talk about corners, this idea of the kind

(41:51):
of six, seven, twelve years ago corner of playing in
this vertical plane, whether like up and down one sideline,
it just doesn't exist anymore. You have to play inside.
You have to play ghast line of scrimmage. It's not Oh,
do they have the inout flexibility? I can they play
in the slot? Can they play on the boundary? You're
all tight to the formation. We are more condensed we've
ever be in the NFL. You have to play in there.
There is so much more grass to your outside shoulder

(42:12):
than there ever used to be. And he has only
really played in that vertical plate and a bunch of
z own coverage where he is really instinctive. He's got
unbelievable feel for out progressions and he can jump stuff
all the time. So he John used the example of
Marcus Peter's with him, which I think is who he is,
which is going to be boom or buzz. He might
break your heart one week, will take you to the
playoffs the next week. I think he's going to be

(42:33):
really instinctive. But the tackling stuff is a major concern
with where the league is at right now, how tight
everything is in there. They will run at you, they
will find ways to attack the corners in space, and
so you've got a guy who can't play in press coverage,
tight and inside and can't tackle and is unwilling to
tackle and stubs his toe And this is the entire
season that that would be my makingcern well.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
And I think there are understandable whispers of what he
just kind of sitting on that twenty twenty three year
which is now. I don't know if I knock him
that much for that, But he's also had injuries or
said he's had injuries during the pre draft process, So
that's that's not the best thing.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
It's a tricky thing.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
I think if you if you have a monster season
and then your back and your team is worse. So
I give him a little pass for that somewhat, but
it's a case where he probably would have been better
off if he was just in last year's draft. When
I watch him, though, he does look like an NFL cornerback,
like he he.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Clearly is going to play in the league.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
He used the word instincts and just like he has
a has a feel and I think he's going to
be pretty good. Marcus Peters is interesting. You would hope
at that size that he can't you learn? Can you
learn tackling? Do you think you can do? Is this tackling?

Speaker 3 (43:41):
And then this turn you back to the game because
you want to have no interest in actually hitting someone.
There's a lot of these corners this year who they
do not want to be involved in tackling. They will
play face up, they will come down if it's a
free show, they will try and ding someone. They get
the tick in the scout moll the guy will hit,
but wanted to actually be involved in the blucking the count,
which is you've got to be in this position, no

(44:01):
can do. You got to take on a blocker, shift
him out of the way, and then go hit a guy
in space. No can do. So he's just going to
part of the lineage of these guys. The thing with him,
I think that it is about to not is I
think he operates on a different plane intellectually to a
lot of the corns we've had in recent years. They
run a really really complex scheme at Michigan, and some
of the stuff they did was built around I think

(44:22):
we have a savant cornerback, so let's really run this
on the fly, morphing moving coverages that allow him to
take control of the back end of the defense. I've
not seen anyone do that ever, So they allowed him
to just basically give a hand signal to a safety
and say, you go, have free fun.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
I've got this side of the field.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
I've never seen anyone do that at the college level,
So I think he's operating at a different level intellectually.
I think that's part of why we call it instincts.
But it's just he understands what's happening, like three seconds
before even the quarterback releases the boss, we can spring
on things. So I think as a when he was
first coming up, it's like it's going to be that
the next great corner. It felt like he was going
to be Gonzalez a lot people down, maybe not quite

(45:00):
the game breaking type plays, whereas I think now it's
more evident that he will be a playmaker for you
more than he will be a down corner.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Although that's intriguing to me because if you're saying that,
there's certainly buildings around the league that are saying something similar,
and the respect that they would give the Michigan staff
and certainly maybe twenty two with the Chargers is a
floor for them if he felled that far. I don't
necessarily think he will, but that's intriguing because that should
translate to the next level the mental side of things.

(45:29):
All right, my question on Travis Hunter with you, and
this is where I'm going back into the basic scouting
of it all from my view, which is, it's almost
like people are in a competition to talk about Travis
Hunter of how well they could talk about it, but
like how good is he? But when I thought about it,
and I watched them at cornerback and watch them at receiver,

(45:50):
my thought was that, like, and people recognize he's the
best prospect at both positions. My thought in this class
is he's probably would I didn't even would say probably
for me, he's the best prospect in this class just
as a cornerback. He would be the number one overall
prospect just as a cornerback, and so I mean all

(46:11):
positions comparing him, and I think there's an argument that
he might be the best prospect at any position at
receiver because to me, I wouldn't put him like it's
tough to compare him to Chase coming out because it's
a little more polished and stuff. But I think he's
in that ballpark where he's in that class of wide receiver.
So in this class where I'm not I like Abdul Carter,

(46:32):
but I'm not going crazy. He's probably to me the
number one overall prospect just as a cornerback, and the
number one over a prospect just as a wide receiver,
which is why I don't believe. I never believed that
he was going to get pat get to the Patriots,
and now I don't believe that he's going to get
past Cleveland because I think teams see this and they're
just gonna want to take him.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
I find it mind boggling that he's not the runaway,
numb one overall pick in the draft. I get, okay,
take how wall do you want to quote the buy
that does not a boat race of teams lining this
class stinks? Please take our picks. We would like to
move to number two to have a chance.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
This is and I'm not.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Prone to high Berballey as you know, Greg, but he
is the most magical player I've ever scouted in my
career sixteen years. And I include Andrew. Look, I include
all the quarterbacks. I've never seen anyone move the way
this guy moves. And to have those kind of movement
skills as a cornerback and as a receiver is the
most preposterous thing, and it's almost underdiscussed. He's the most
famous college football player in the country. He wins the

(47:27):
Heisman Trophy. He would have won it even he wasn't
very good at two positions. Just for the fact he
played the two positions, we would have given him the award.
But the movement skills extraordinary. The instincts, the understanding of
the game are beyond belief. The way he can undercut things,
break on things, play against offenses where usually when you
see a great corner in college, people will not target them.
That's kind of how it goes, like, oh, they didn't

(47:47):
want to throw to the good one. Teams tilt their
entire offensive design to get rid of him so they
can throw the ball. There's a bunch of games where
teams are saying, we're going to run a drag cross
route to get him all the way out of here.
Please run to the outside the field, travers. We don't
trust you. You'll figure this out. And we'll also roll
the pocket. So the players rolling to the right and
they're running a drag rout to the left side the
field to get him away from everything. He is breaking

(48:10):
the entire structure of offenses because they are so afraid
affront him. And it's not just that he's a better
athlete than everyone, it's that he's so superiorly smarter than
every one as well. And he really reminds me of
Champ Bailey is a corner and as a receiver. I
don't think it's that preposterous to say he's not that
far off justin Jefferson, and he's doing these things part time.
He's doing these things part time, and he's probably going

(48:31):
to be asked to try and master one in the league.
And I just think, as Saint to John the other
day when we did the Corner podcast, that the floor
to me feels like the second or third best cornerback
in the NFL. De bending our system and circumstance and
the ceiling is changes the position for generation where kids
grew up, saying where kids grow up saying I want
to play cornerback because Travis Hunt to play cornerback, and

(48:54):
he might be more viable at receiver with the way
the league is and being the eighth best receiver in
the league might be more viable. But the the upside
is Hall of Fame and the position is not considered
the same. Again, because all these kids grew up saying
I want to play cornall like Travis.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
I see it. I see that vision.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
And that's why you just can't get in your head
about thinking that it's in any way a problem or something.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
To figure out that he's so good.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
At both that's a problem for the next nine ten
years while he is part of your organization, as you
said it, hopefully on a Hall of Fame trajectory, and
just get him in my building, because I don't think
it's crazy to compare him to Jefferson, because that's where
I feel like you can just watch the.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Tape and see that he moves in such a way.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
And I'm glad you brought up the smarts because I
think that's where the combination comes from. And I don't
know if Antonio Brown was like he's certainly not smart.
How he speaks to the public or how he acts.
But there is something that he understood about football that
I've felt like he could move in a cert way
that was just different than other people. That combine his

(50:05):
incredible athleticism with an understanding about the game as it
was happening that allowed him to slow down as it
was happening in a way that Justin Jefferson has too.
I don't know why Antonio Brown is coming to my
mind for Hunter, and I love what you said about
the cornerback and his ceiling there, and so I don't
have an answer there, but it just seems obvious to me.

(50:27):
He's easily the best prospect total in this class, and
I'm glad you agree. I'm glad I also stayed away
from your cornerback. But now I'm going to get into it,
but I want I wanted it to be fresh hearing
it first.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Here, and I think we did an hour on him
because I was still in looks. So another thing with
him that she knows is theF that he plays with
is beyond belief. You think about what he's the life
he's living, which is I have to play both sides
at the field. I'm tied this is very difficult. I'm
most incredibly famous. I'm making a ton of money. I'm
about to become a multimillion and set my family for generations.

(51:01):
And yet there are blown plays because the defense he's
playing on absolutely stinks. Where he is chasing things down
from one half of the field to the other side
of the field from the midfield line. There's a UCF
touchdown they score where it's a complete blown overage. It's
a wheel right up the left sideline. He is on
the right far sideline and he chases that thing to
the one yard line, just doesn't pull it in in time.

(51:22):
And if I was him, I'd be thinking of the twenty, like,
I don't really need to do this. This defense stinks.
I'm gonna make a ton of money. So he just
has every single thing you could ever hope for. The movement, skills,
the intellect, the talent playing the ball in flight, I mean,
the ability to go up and get it off the
rim is just as good as you will ever ever
see from a prospect. And I don't know where I
come down on the which side the ball he would play.

(51:43):
As a defensive coach, I would really like him to
play on the corner side. So I can recruit some
kids and say, come and play like Travis. That'd be great,
maybe more valuable to play receiver, I guess with where
the league's at, but I just think he is. It's
almost now because cam Ward is going to go first overall,
almost being underplayed asational prospect we have here and then
a yeah, lacking blue chip is I just don't know

(52:04):
why he's not runaway favorite to be second overall.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Right, and or that him and Carter are on the
same plane, which no disrespect to Carter, who's a great,
great prospect, is just it's not the same to me.
I guess I don't know why I needed to watch
the tape to like to know that he does have
that dog in him. Travis Hunter a man that is
playing one hundred and twenty steps again at lead to
a level that alone you don't even need to watch

(52:27):
it like he but man, he does that. That's absolutely
a good point. Okay, we're we're gonna fly through your
your players. You want and you don't want, let's do
it for about fifteen minutes or whatever. But I do
want to hear kind of going through and if we've
already mentioned them, then we can kind of skip it.
But let's let's go through on the defensive line, like
we talk defensive tackles with the Michigan guys.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Who's the guy you want?

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Who's the guy that you don't necessarily think draft value
is going to match up with what you want?

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Yeah, the guy I wont is Omar Norman Law from Tennessee.
And this is a guy I think. I've not double
check my math, but I think he played like three
snaps of game, So I understand why people are concerned.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
This is hasn't been mentioned on like a national podcast. Yeah,
I don't think Omar noran lot like about a third
round consensus pick, not like totally off the Raidar, but
not an ipick guy.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Which I think again speaks this idea off you evaluate
the prospect in a vacuum and not necessarily what will
work and what the league is looking for. If you
can get an up field, I mean, he has the
best get off of any interior prospect in the entire class,
and he plays with more inline power, and this what
I call second surge where you kind of engage in
the blot, then you've got a surge and go again.
You don't just beat people out of the cleats in
the interior. At the offensive line. He to me, drives

(53:37):
through blockers better than Mason Graham does, and he's not
at the same kind of pitch count. I think he
played seven hundred something snaps over two seasons. But if
you just pull up even some of the pressure rates
and the figures, it is as good as you will
ever find. It is as good as you'll ever find
of the last ten years on third down, to particular,
you go and watch the Alabama tape. He is just
roasting falls all the time on third down. He's playing

(53:58):
for a Tennessee staff who won't put him on the
fiel on early downs. But if you're looking for in
this world now where everyone's going to be trying to
replicate the Eagles, how do we get a four man
pass rush. We don't really want to send pressure packages
once we get to the playoffs. We need twitch inside
and this guy is juiced up more than anyone else
in the class, frankly along the interior.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
So that is a guy.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
If I have a chance in the second round just
to steal him, I think it's going to be unbelievable
pick up. He may only play thirty snaps a game
for you, but that they will be really, really valuable snaps.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
It sounds like an Eagles pick. Would he still be
there at sixty four? Maybe maybe according to these consensus sports,
but maybe there's some some people out there. Let's just
call Graham the guy we didn't want because he's a
he's a profile he's a high profile guy, and we
already talked about him enough edge guys that you would
want on your team or an edge.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
Guy as a Roku Boston collegist Donovan Azaku. I think
that he's funny in the sense that so he's a smaller,
quick off the ball, kind of swoop artist around the edge,
but he has every single kind of moon put together,
and it's funny because they are too lot to When
he came out last season, he kind of created new
ways to rush the passer. They were like not traditional

(55:06):
pass rushing techniques. And I think there's some a lot
to in Azeraku, but a lot of what he does
is the traditional mechanics. He just has everything so refined
that he is bringing to the game twelve thirteen different moves,
some that you've only really seen, like a Daniel Hunter
run It's as though we watched Danil Hunter of the
week before and suddenly he's like, oh, I might try
that out next weekend, and immediately it's perfect. So there's

(55:27):
a level of detail and craft in there, which is
why I think he was what he have sixty and
a half sacks last season. He's not the best athlete
off the ball, He's not the biggest athlete. I think
he's going to get ding to go in the second round,
maybe because he just doesn't quite have the measurables teams
are looking for. But if I'm someone like Buffalo looking
at the foot of that first round saying we want

(55:47):
pass rush, and I know they want bigger, thicker pass rushes,
so maybe it's not the best example, but we just
want someone who's going to come in no how to
rush the passer like a veteran from the get go
and be an impactful playoff player where maybe he only
plays twenty five snap is a silp roshure early on.
I think as a rock he doesn't have. You know,
a lot of these teams a hunting and searching for
guys who can kind of cuncave in the pocket. It's

(56:08):
like we want alt to empower where we can just
compress the pocket. That's what a lot of these guys
are looking for. He's not going to be that for you,
but I think if you can scheme out what you
get him fifteen one on one shots a game, i'd
you're really surprised if he isn't closing one of those
in the team looking to go in the playoffs. That
would just be invaluable.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Yeah, that's another potential Eagles pick.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Not that he's a one for one for a gram,
but a Brandon Graham but undersized and certainly I think
they might be looking at edge early in this draft
class to start restocking. That would be a fun one.
I could see him going. It's tough this class. The
same thing is happening that's always happening, which is just
like a consensus forms and it seems like it's going

(56:47):
to be logical. And to be fair, the last couple
of drafts, for the most part, the first rounds, they
haven't been predictable exactly where people go, but they actually
have been a little predictable of like the twenty six
twenty seven guys people are getting right in their mock
draft are going to be in the first round. This one,
in theory is going to be a lot more unpredictable.
So to me, I mean he could go as early
as the box or something like that. Yeah, it's difficult,

(57:08):
particularly with the defensive line. I mean I have thirty
five draftable grade for just interior defensive lineman. I don't
know the last time there was anything close to that.
And then there's probably going to be about twenty two
to twenty four draftable edge defenders before probably the sixth round.
That is just a lot of people to try and
get off the board, and there will be I think
wiggle room within that because I think that top twelve

(57:28):
of edge defenders in particular, there's a real large range
right on. How do you feel about James Pearce, for example?
Is he a almost undraftable player? Is he the third
best player in the class?

Speaker 2 (57:37):
So who is he for you? Is he the one
you wouldn't want? He is the one that I would
not want in my building? Yet? Okay? Why is that
just not like the bag of moves or Yeah?

Speaker 3 (57:48):
I like passwords who know what they're doing when they
rush the passer, and not just kind of upfield athletes
who tests really well but don't quite know how to
play football on Saturdays or some this.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
If they're strong enough into it.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Like I'll always defend that Marcus Davenport pick, not the
trade up so that I don't defend it at all,
but just like he could be a good NFL payer,
but I don't see Pierce having that sort of like
next level strength or anything like that. Let's let's go
back to cornerback actually, well before we move on from
defensive tackle.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
One other question I had, now I'm really slow in things, nown.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Was if you just took the fifteen best plays of
Walter Nolan, whose defensive tackle potential first round pick here,
how many defensive players in this class would be ahead of,
like the best fifteen.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Places of.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Just like Madam, of all these guys, Walter Lowland might
be my number one defensive lineman.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I don't know, it's pretty crazy.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
I have him in the tear as his own as
an interior defensive line prospect, just because the movement skills
is so beyond measure. I think he's a boardline terrible
football player right now, and actually a dangerous right clus
football player. He lowers his head on contact constantly, and
that's a real concern but he just moves like nobody
else in the class from me at that size, we've

(59:08):
true knock back rocked the pocket power Like, it's really
difficult to get guys inside unless it's like Vitevea Vince
Wilford just collapse the pocket. Usually it's like a press right,
you push people, Matt, you drop the center into the
lap of the quarterback, or you hit a guard and
you kind of crack them. Fall back is what you
call it. Where you knock someone back, fall off and
land for the sack. You don't really see the pocket
get detonated a whole bunch inside, unless it's like JJ

(59:30):
Watt coming inside. He drops the pocket and he's smaller
than all those guys I mentioned. So I think if
you can figure out how to get the football player
together and you can actually get some technical refinement in there,
then he could be truly truly special one. It's just
a long long way from the top fifteen you mentioned
to the middle fifteen are undraftable, that's the concern. It's

(59:51):
not even the bottom fifteen, the middle fifteen or like
deeply deeply troubling, but the top fifteen.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
If you just take those I would say I would
have him just behind Hunter probably night Love.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Yeah, that's that'd be like number two.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
That's insane, which is why we're not allowed to gamble
here at NFL Daily. But whatever the over under on
where Walter Nolan draft, you know stock is, I am
taking him getting drafted earlier because if I was trying
to think of, like, oh, who's the stunning guy that
the Jags took at five or something, I could see it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Why not because of what exactly what you just said?

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
What I just said, because it the best plays, just
the pure athleticism are that crazy and consensus board I
just checked he's at twenty six.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
I just feel like a guy in this in this
class where teams are gonna look for some upside in
the top ten, like he is an kind of an
under the radar guy who could go top ten. All right,
who is a cornerback that you would want a draft?
And who who would you you know, you don't think
it matches up value wise in this in this class.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
I think Trey Amos is the cornerback who should probably
be discussed in like the twelve to fifteen range. I
think he's the smartest corner of a lot of these guys.
He plays legit, bump and run all over the field coverage,
the best press technique I think of any of the
guys in this class, probably the smartest on the fly
corner outside of Travis Hunter.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
In this class.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
They run a lot of different stuff there and he's
got it all down. So he would be the one
where he's completely to me, team independent. He can play
in any system you want, any scheme you want. You're
not just looking at Will Johnson where you would have
to be a really really zone every team to be
intrigued in Will Johnson.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Amos can just slot in anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Okay, this is a guy who fortieth on the consensus board.
Another old miss guy like Walter Nolan.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
They had a lot of.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
It's amazing that the Kingsbury Kiffin once again. Somehow he
had maybe the second best cornerback in the class, maybe
the best interior defensive lineman. I think, Princely, you the
edge defender should be a first round pick. He's probably
not going to be. And somehow Kiffen couldn't figure out
a way and Jackson Dot who I hear apparently is
going to go in the top I know, right, to
be the third quard back off the board. Somehow he

(01:02:02):
didn't make it to the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Although I will say uh Quincin Judkins liked him better
at Old Miss. He was one where I didn't get
the tape totally until I watched the Old Miss and
then I was like, Okay, I get it, I get it.
That's a That's an interesting one, tray amos because fortieth
on the consensus sport, but he is one where between
the reporters like Daniel Jeremiah who are plugged in. He's

(01:02:25):
not a reporter, but draft analysts and some of the reporters,
he is someone I have a feeling that teams disagree
with the draft knicks the most one. So I think
there are a lot of teams that agree with you
and see him in that range. And so that's another
one that whatever the over underline is, maybe it'll move
by the time they actually post these. I would probably

(01:02:46):
take that he's going to get drafted before most people think.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
Yeah, he's the most Sean McDermott corner in this class,
and the Bills are right there, and I feel like
Shilan will be all being.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
And that's a big need for them too. I think
the second cornerback spot. Who's give me a cornerback. Maybe
you're not as into.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Chavonn Ravel, who was being built as a first round prospect.
I think that's come down. I've not checked the consensus
ball recently to see where he's being projected to go.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Yeah, probably right on the border. I think a lot
of people would have him in the first round here.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Yeah, I just build as a kind of smaller school
athletic freak. But he's coming off the ACL ten when
you watch the film, he's not actually an athletic freak
at smaller school level. And there's a lot of plays
in the ball, but there is an awful lot of
coverage busts and breakdowns, and it is purely like just
go by feel. He is a sea ball attack ball
player and often is corrupt and completely The defensive system

(01:03:39):
had to go and ask someone at the school some
of the concepts they were running to see if he
was making like an assignment error or they were running
a defense I'd never seen before, which is like locking
one player in man coverage but on the perimeter, which
is not normally what you would do, and then zoning
the entire rest at the field and allowing that guy
to travel. It was really like matrix head spinning stuff
and I was involved. No, he just to do his

(01:04:00):
own thing on several reps and go and try to
tug the bull. So you get a six three one
ninety three guy who's supposed to be Tarik Woolan is
kind of where people with building kme MOUs and people
don't want to miss on not taking Woolen in like
the second round, first round and letting him slide all
the way down. I just don't think he has that
kind of athletic difference makeup.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Yeah, that's the thing again for my advantage point. When
I watched the smaller school guys or even even guys
like the Colorado guys in a conference, it's not as strong.
If you're going to be billed as that guy, you
want to see them standing out. And I'm with you.
I'm glad you brought him up. Because I got home
from the Dodgers game. My son's been begging to go
to the Dodgers. We saw a bit of a stinker

(01:04:38):
four two loss last night, and I wanted to get
through as many of these defensive guys last minute, So
I did watch a couple of the Revel games and
I was in I was just like, I don't know,
it doesn't I don't know enough to feel much of
any way about this, but I don't totally see it
where he was like popping off the screen. So now
I'm glad I stayed up late to watch an East

(01:04:59):
Carolina cornerback coming off a torn ac out. But he
probably is going to be a second round pick at
the very lowest, so an interesting prospect to keep an
eye on. All right, out of all the positions we
haven't gone through one by one, I'll just give you
an open ended choice here. Any players that you want
to get in for it. We'll start with the positive
and then we'll go with the negative. But any players

(01:05:19):
at the other positions like linebackers, safety, I think that's
really all that we've left off that you just are
that are Allie Connolly guys, Yeah, my day on Henley
TM linebacker. My guy this season is Tireen Palell from RUKAS,
who I don't even know if he's gonna get drafted.
I haven't looked at the consensus bullet, but I think
he has by far the best and quickest eyes at

(01:05:42):
the lineback vision and he is absolutely gin almost And
the concern in him is I think he's six' five
two foldy somewhere in that, range and the concern, is
well can he actually move and you, know twist and
change directions as linebackers must. DO i didn't have those
concerns at. All SO i think the if you're looking,
FOR i really think you can go and find starting
linebacker is now in the fourth or fifth because it's
just a position where you have to have patients, anyway

(01:06:02):
and it's probably going to take you two. Years i'd
rather get a guy with that level of know how
an understanding go already with that athletic. Profile where bring
a six to five guy in and you get yourself
Into Devondre campbell territory in a couple of. Seasons everyone
else is going to be looking at you, going, wow
how did you get that guy in the fifth round
out of Rook So Tyrene powell is my like really
late sleep. Linebacker If Tyrene powell goes on day three,

(01:06:23):
totam you should stand up and. Celebrate, OKAY i am
not being rude. Here if you're watching on, YouTube like
counting numbers of my mouth while you're talking. Here i'm
trying to go on the consensus sport to find out
what rank he is for. LINEBACKERS i came up with twenty. Eight,
uh he's at three twenty nine. Overall so you heard it. Here,

(01:06:44):
FIRST i love A Tyrene powell shout, out and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
That's that's a good shout.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Out if you, had if you Had Dayan, henley this
is your your, position this is your. GUY i will
now be Tracking Tyrene powell's career a lot closer for
the rest of. It, wait you Mentioned campbell as if
it was a bad, thing like how he is now.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
No, NO i as when he first got The Green
bay and we get this long gone perridactyl in the
middle of all.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Defense, OKAY i was. HOPING i was hoping so BECAUSE.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
I you, KNOW i once wrote five hundred words on
how well Did Deon jones And Devandre Campbell we're playing
at the halftime of The Falcons Patriots Super bowl that
watching those two guys in, PERSON i was, LIKE i
Think Deon jones And Devondre campbell are the difference in this.
Game they are just playing absolutely outrageous football right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Now and then it didn't hold. Up but nice.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Career It's Devondre, campbell although he might he might have
talked his way, out walked his way out of the
league with the way he finished with the forty nine.
Ers all, right let's finish up with THE i hate
to finish, negative but, anyone anyone that kind of caught
your eye as you're, evaluating and you're somewhat aware of
how their view that weren't WEREN'T olli commonlygu, Guys.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
YEAH i think The Malachi dogs one is tough for.
ME i just don't see the player the everyone else
seems to. SEE i think he's almost built Like morphing
move him around, safety and it's just an awful lot
of bad. Tape if you just go and watch The
Notre dame tape on its, own it's like hilariously, bad
and you just start, laughing being, like this is a

(01:08:11):
top twenty draft?

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Pick are you? Kidding?

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
Me all over the, place confused about what's happening in the,
backfield confused aout where he should be on the. Field
he is a splash, playmaker and So i'm sure a
team will take him somewhere in the twenty five, range
maybe a little bit higher because they believe they can
get a kind of pseudo slot corner who can maybe
play in the back and few as a. SAFETY i
just don't think he's the kind of athletic pheno that
he was built to. Be AND i think it's a

(01:08:34):
little bit of just helmet Scouting georgia next guy and you,
know in, line the next cab off the, rank AND
i just don't see him like. THAT i think That
Kevin winston At Penn state SAFETY i think is by
far the best safety in the. Class. SPICY i think
he's being built in the second, round third round.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Range but if you want.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
A true middle of the, field, rangey come down and
bang type, guy think Of Jacon brisco where it's like
you want him close to the line OF i means
you can be a true blitz of fol you but
he's solid enough to hang on the back ends you
can get into cool rotational. Stuff winston missed a lot
of the season with a TOUR, acl SO i think
he slipped down people's. Ball maybe just go by the
Film Stark swiss Is. Winston it's not particularly close for.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
Me, yeah maybe in looking At i'm looking for Where
winston even. Is, yeah like a late third round contensus
board out Of Penn. State all, RIGHT i need to
check him out then before before. Drafting maybe it was
BECAUSE i Had Malachie starts and Today baron in the same.
Ballpark to, me because they're both you, know playing some
slaughter or. Whatever but watching those two back to, back

(01:09:36):
not that they're playing in the exact same, position but
Today barroon to me is a very exciting. Player And Malachi,
starks the safety out Of, georgia who, yeah you, mentioned
has been mocked sometimes as high as like The dolphins at.
THIRTEEN i do think he's a little bit of THE
i could be. WRONG i don't think it's quite as,
consensus but similar To Trey, amos but in the reverse

(01:09:57):
THAT i don't think teams are quite as high as
some of the mosters had.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
Him so maybe he is a guy that could. Suck
do you like Today? Baron before we?

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
Leave by the, WAY i do like Today. BARRON i
don't get any concern about the way you're going to play.
HIM i think he's really really solid and comfortable and
basically every alignment they ask him to, play which is
some dim, linebackers some permit to, cornerback some deep safety
that sounds like an amazing piece to me in a,
draftway if you gone go and hunt one of the
blue chip, prospects IF i can get a guy you
can fill in five different roles from, me and he's

(01:10:26):
a really effective blitzet both inside and coming off the edge.
Too that that is a guy where you look up
in week, twelve week thirteen and everyone's, like, wow they
just got an, impactful fine play for like eight years
and we took a big swing on an edgeusser who
would not show can have a.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
Play, yeah he's someone.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
Today baron From texas, Cornerback, yeah can play a few different.
Positions he's one where if you're not Counting hunter exactly
as a cornerback because he can do so many you,
know both. Things he can play receiver, too then he's
probably the one That i'd feel certainly safest. ABOUT i
MEAN i would feel safer Than Will johnson.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
To, ME i don't Think barron has the turn and
roll ability of some of the other, guys and so
if you get caught tight, split we got whoever coming out,
There we've Got Pooka nakua and it's a two way.
GO i think that's where you get in trouble and
it's just so difficult to go and find those corners
who can really rev then have the intangibles and instincts
that That baron.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
Does So, BARRON i think it's, LIKE i, mean who
can't do. That Jalen ramsey can't do. That nobody can do.
That though it's Only satan And. Gonzales those are two
great hopes and Hopefully hunter and we're hoping for some
more Maybe. Amos BUT i think barn is a little bit.
MORE i don't think THAT i know he's being mocked
in some place in the top ten because it's just
like excellent, corner so therefore valuable position must go. UP

(01:11:40):
i don't think he plays the game in a way
that is like maximal value is he's going to shut,
down receive us for. US i think he's way more
of like a plug holes figure things, out makes the scheme,
better makes the scheme more, diverse kind of a force
multiplier on defense that allows our blue chip players to
go play their best.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Ball, yeah like like every defensive.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
Back it would be exciting to see him With Brian
flores there at twenty, four AND i kind of think
they IF i had to. GUESS i would guess defensive
back for The vikings just based on their current, Needs
so he would be a fun fit fit.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
There he's typical of this.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
Class which to wrap it, up which is that that's
WHAT dj has been saying. Too it's not a it's
probably a draft where you shouldn't be searching for. Upside
you should be just searching for some guys who are
going to help, you like A Jday. Baron so if
he goes higher than you, think it's, Like i'll live
with it in this class just because like he'll be
a solid player for.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
You and it's.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
That it's that kind of what's funny about searching for
the upside is there are guys Like Andreas peebles going
in the sixth. Round they are just as quick off
the ball as some of these guys open the first.
Round that the upside guys all the way. Here LIKE i,
said thirty five guys the interior defensive line you would
be pretty happy about having, selected just depending on the.
Value and there are guys who can really fly off
the ball deep down the. Drafts if you just want

(01:12:50):
one gap up the field, burst there's like fifteen of.
Them waiting for you on late day, two day. Three
you don't have to go and hunt for those guys
and say we Need james off the. Edge no one
can move by that. Guy there's like five or six
of them waiting on day. Three you can fly off
the ball.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
Too, yeah and if you if you want to hear
about them, All ali And John ledyard have it covered
on The Read optional. Podcast they both write. Separately but,
yeah if you go To ali's, substack it is it's
one of the best out, there and it goes it goes.
Deep ALTHOUGH i don't know if you go thirty five.
Deep that's just just the content idea for you that

(01:13:26):
you should do like a thirty five deep my top
thirty five draftable guys and make it like based on
your guys's. Cadence it would be roughly seven and a half.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
Hours it'd be.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
Amazing, Yeah John dunn doesn't let me get down to
thirty five, five asked him.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
To i've, said, PLEASE i think that would be. Fun
just do a.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
BIT i know it's not your, bit but do a
bit and put a time limit on it that like
guys twenty through thirty, five you're only allowed a certain
amount of, time like three minutes or whatever it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
Is but JUST i, Mean i've been watching The Iowa State.
Revas you, Know i've been digging a junior. College i've
been digging everywhere a talent for. People there's a lot
of it this. YEAR i understand there's probably eight really talented.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
Plays what is miss?

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
School you just said The Iowa State revas hunted deck
is cool at the back left the absolute.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
Canon, yeah he's probably going to go and. Drafted maybe
is that the most random school that you watch?

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
It?

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
YEAH i would feel like IF i watched that many,
GUYS i would just have to talk about them or.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Else what AM i? Doing what was the? Point you've
just made me question my? Life? Wow that was.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
Profound you'll be as you'll be as prepared for these
guys at the next. Level i'm more, Interested i'll be.
REAL i, Mean i'm really interested in this, draft But
i'm also. Interested you just mentioned a lot. TOO i
want to. Go it's the time of. YEAR i want
to start going back and look, Like, okay lat too
wasn't quite the, guy maybe didn't have the rookie. SEASON i,
THOUGHT i want to go back and start watching some
of those, guys but that's for.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Me we'll try to have.

Speaker 1 (01:14:49):
You on later in the off season for some sort
of project like that that would be. Fun again check
Out Ali connolly appreciates, You, ali and we will be
back On tuesday. Afternoon so just to let you guys
know that are. Listing we're kind of in an afternoon.
Cadence sometimes we're an overnight. Cadence we're going to be
posting in the Afternoon West coast time all. Week we
Have Jordan rodrigue And Colleen wolf in for our next.

(01:15:11):
Show that is going to be a fun. One only
what ten days left until THE Nfl. Draft when we're
going thirty five deep at defensive, line you know football is.
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