April 11, 2025 • 37 mins
Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic and Ross Tucker of the Ross Tucker Football Podcast to give you their ideal first three rounds of the NFL Draft. First, the crew reacts to some possible drama brewing between TJ Watt and the Steelers (03:45), how Geno Smith became a Raider (08:08), Terron Armstead and Julio Jones retiring (13:08) and more! After the break, Ross (23:25) and Jourdan (33:30) give you the first three picks of their ideal draft.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're still on island time.
I'm Greg Rosenthal in the Chris Westling podcast studio with
a pair of a surprising pair of guests, Jordan Rodrigue
of The Athletic and Ross Tucker of a Million Ross
Tucker named podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome, Welcome, Ross.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yeah, this is awesome. I'm out here for the They
used to call it the broadcast Bootcamp.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I thought they still did.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
They don't know, that's the Broadcasting and Media Workshop. So
it's something bay change. I actually went. I went to
the first one they ever had, two thousand and seven
NFL films while I was still a player. I did
a million terrible things. Yet I still have a career
in the media, which is nice. And I'm a huge
fan of Jordan and the work that she does, so
(00:49):
it's very cool to be all with her.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
So I think we made Greg feel really left out.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Ross.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
We might have to apologize him because Ross and I
spent the first five minutes of studio time, as you were,
like busy trying to put a show together, fangirling over
each other.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So I love it, and I love I love like
the instant pressure that this podcast has because We're taping
this during broadcast boot camps lunch break, which like started
a little late, so we are on the clock here
that we have to finish this show quickly, and yet
we have three of the biggest honkers that I've ever
seen who just like like to talk a lot. I
(01:26):
know that because you know, Ross and I go way back.
I believe we were once on like a Yes Network
show together, like one or two that I that I
was on where I was a fantasy football guy. We
were definitely on some NBC Sports Channel shows together, and
that network doesn't even exist anymore. And Ross had such
(01:46):
a signature time at our friend Matt Casey's wedding that
whenever my wife Amica hears his voice doing a game
on TV, she's like, oh, I recognize that voice.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I recognize that voice from the wedding. That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
And Jordan, I appreciate that you looked happy to see
me when we said, jother, it's spend a couple weeks,
which is actually the longest I believe we haven't seen
each other since you've started here at NFL Daily. But
I have to be real with the audience and we're
going to get going. I took a vacation this week.
I was gone from Friday to Wednesday. We put up
some shows that were in the can. So to me,
I'm such a news person, I feel weird about it.
(02:20):
So we are going to like try to catch up
on a little bit of news and then I'm going
to hear what we're calling your ideal draft where you
go first round, second round, third round, and we're going
to do this all in a quick amount of time.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Let's start. So he says, yeah, we don't have any options.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Ross literally has to teach like the future great broadcasters
of America. And I told Ross this separately, but broadcaster
like Ross has always been great and he fills a
lot of different roles. But I really love seeing like
his development as like a color guy on these big
games because I think he is better now. He's just
hitting his broadcasting prime right now.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, I'll just say every time they announced that, I'm
like getting a bump up at CBS or whatever I'm doing.
You always either text me or send a tweet. And
I know that you watch every game, So it means
a lot when people that I know that actually watch
the games appreciate what I do to it. It means
more than you know that someone that I know that.
It's not like my mom My, mom doesn't.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Even watch you were so good, Ross, Like.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Mom, you didn't even watch. You just watched the first
thirty seconds when I'm on camera and then he turned
to a Lifetime movie. You don't even watch me like
Greg at least watches.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Greg's like parsing your cadence and every breath that you take.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
No I studies these I learned things from Ross and
that's the important thing. You can tell. He really does
the work.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And yeah, you should check out the Ross Tucker football
program every day Ross Tucker Daily. He was first in
the Daily Game, essentially the podcast during the season. Let's
talk news, though, let's talk this is just I don't
even know if I want to call this news, but
it's the most recent thing that I saw pop up,
and it was TJ Watches throwing up a peace sign
on Instagram. And there's no reporting around it yet, but
(03:54):
it does show potentially to me, Ross, I don't even
know if you know about this one that like there's
something going on there between his contract situation with the Steelers.
I would be a little stunned if anything popped up.
But if you just took a step back, it actually
wouldn't be that crazy to me for the Steelers to
entertain the idea of trading TJ.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Watt.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
But we can't be given that good content, can't we?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
All right, hold on a second, two things. Number one,
this is one of the issues when you elect to
trade for DK Metcalf and give him that much money,
and you're paying a guy that much that's never done
anything for your organization. Whereas TJ. Watt, he's been your
best player pretty much since day one, and he's done
(04:36):
the last year of his deal, and he is seeing
what Miles Garrett and these other guys are getting Max Crosby,
and he said, wait minute, Miles Garrett had a couple
of years left on his deal. Max Crosby had a
couple of years left. This is my last year. What
about me? So that's someone and Greg, I actually totally
agree with you there. It's not going to happen because
(04:58):
it's not the Steeler way. But there is a universe
where the Steelers recognize they're not really going anywhere unless
they have a legitimate quarterback, especially in the AFC, and
they trade TJ. Watt for something. I don't know if
that's a quarterback or picks or whatever, but they decide
(05:19):
we're not even if they get Aaron Rodgers this year,
like what's the upside one playoff win? Maybe like they
win a playoff game. There is a scenario where people realize,
let's not get Rogers, Let's go with Mason Rudolph or
a rookie. Let's trade TJ. Watt, and let's try to
rebuild this thing from the ground up. It's just not
the Steeler away.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
But I think too the duality of these scenarios here,
we have to factor in the time. Right the time
of this post off season programming is starting for some
teams with new coaches, and we'll be starting for other
teams very soon. If you are going to say potentially
hold out of that programming, that's when you start posting
things to your social media accounts making it clear where
you stand. There are two scenarios here that I think
(05:58):
are very plausible that the Steelers probably are and should
be thinking about. If you bring in Rogers, you're like, okay,
maybe we adjust TJ. Watt's steal. You play on that
twenty twenty five deal, we revisit the conversation after that,
because we maybe get one good year out of Rogers
at it yet to be determined number. So then once
you have that number in your building, you know what
you can do with TJ. Watt to sort of say, like,
(06:18):
we're going to go all in for this season on
the last year of your contract. Revisit it after or
as you're saying, which I know is not the steal away,
but you don't get Rogers and now you're going to
go with a rookie or a Mason Rudolph And now
you think, okay, we got a clean house on some
of the older players on their defensive side.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
It's not what they do. But he's he's thirty years old,
which kind of snuck up on me. There was like
a sort of a hipster tape watching group last year
that was like, well, if you think about it, like
by the numbers and maybe why what you see you
could argue that TJ. Watt was the fourth best pass
rusher on the Steelers last year.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
That on a personap basis.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
You did argue that Nick KRBCT well it was just like.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
The I am the hipster Nick Herbig, who was awesome,
and Alex High Smith, who was awesome, and then obviously
Cam Hayward who plays a different position but well.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Also, by the way, Cam had a contract situation last
year and he was vocal about it and he wasn't
happy and they ended up getting that done.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I think they get it done.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
But it is interesting that he is at the point
of his career that you could you could get a
lot for him. And I don't know, They're an interesting
team to watch over draft weekend because we've been talking
about how George Pickens I still not totally convinced is
on this team in twenty twenty five, and so we
will see just just a situation to watch, and it
reminds me a little bit of his brother, JJ Watt,
who was not above really was sort of an original
(07:42):
guy to use social media occasionally to send messages either
to teams or just about himself or whatever. And so
why not have TJ Watt act like a wide receiver.
Jack Jones cut by the Raiders. We're catching up, so,
like I said, we haven't done news on the show
each so we'll fly through the quick but I just
wanted to kind of mention that Jack Jones was cut
(08:02):
by the Raiders, who was a starting cornerback for them,
and then we did kind of close a circle on
the Geno contract, which people made a big deal out of,
really wasn't that much better over two years than Sam Darnold.
But the main thing is it guaranteed him fifty eight
million dollars. He makes forty million in year one, and
he's with Pete Carroll and he's with Pete Carroll eighteen
guarantees him eighteen million dollars in year tease, So that
(08:24):
was a difference between him and the Raiders and what
Seattle was going to do. But it is crazy ross
like in an era where money and all this stuff.
It really sounds like the personal connection between Gino and
Pete Carroll is a big reason why they didn't really
negotiate much with the Seahawks. He said, Pete Carroll was
calling him on a weekly basis. They were talking during
last season and like coaching him up and like putting
(08:46):
him in a better headspace because he was all messed
up about his money and the lack of a contract
he was getting from Seattle, and like Pete Carroll was
essentially helping out the Seahawks getting his mind right to
play better for the Seahawks while he wasn't even the
Seahawks coach.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Are you sure about that? Because when I read that
story and when I heard Geno talking about how they
talk all the time and Pete Carroll was there for him,
Pete Carroll's not happy that the Seahawks moved on from him.
Pete Carroll wanted to continue to coach the Seahawks. So
I'm picturing Pete Carroll saying that is disrespectful, not knowing,
(09:22):
not knowing he was going to go to the Raiders,
but saying, how could they treat you like this? You're
the reason why they got to the playoffs. They're not.
They don't want to guarantee any money in the second year.
I wouldn't even negotiate because Gino said that the Seahawks
offered a contract and his agent didn't even counter. Yeah,
Like he wanted to go, He wanted to leave and
go somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
He wanted to go to Pete. He wanted to go
to Pete Carroll.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Tired of the year to year right, so at least
he feels about secure about his second year with the Raiders,
whereas the Seahawks very clearly want to do this one
year at a time at quarterback.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Yeah, my colleague Michael Sean Jugar has a book coming
out about the Legion of Era Seattle Seahawks. Very excited
about that. But he's outlined some of this to me,
whether he was there seeing it firsthand or also just
talking to me about it over time. Pete Carroll is
the one that had the relationships in the building, not
John Schneider. And John Schneider has done some great things
(10:17):
as a GM and has done some questionable things, particularly
upfront as a GM, but also the players they connect
with Pete Carroll. If there are no ties left really
for you in that building, from the coaching staff to
the front office, and those ties exist somewhere else, absolutely,
I can see why this domino effect happens.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Right, And I mean there are ties with the players,
and he rebuilt his career there and he said he
enjoyed playing under Mike McDonald. I think just this everything
coming together with him having this opportunity with Pete Carroll
gives me a new team to root for. Tree McBride
got big money since we last like taped the live show.
That was like literally as we were walking out the
building last time, forty three million dollars guaranteed four years,
(10:57):
sixty seventy six million dollars overall. I still remember him
as this kind of lost sort of rookie on the
all or Nothing series that only I watched. I think
that was the last dollar nothing series of the Arizona Cardinal,
and he was just like this fish out of water
who really wasn't doing anything in his career at that
point and now one of the best tight ends in
the league. The Jaguars picked up the fifth year option
(11:18):
for Trayvon Walker. I thought that was interesting that they
did that, but they didn't do it for linebacker Devin Lloyd.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Give it.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I just want to test Ross here. What does your
Devin Lloyd take see with no preparation? Do you have
an opinion about Devin Lloyd?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, I think that he's probably been disappointing. I think
Trayvon Walker on some level has been I think I
think they've both been fine. But there's a reason why
the GM's not there anymore that you clearly have people
to compare them to, Like they could have taken Aiden
Hutchinson and they went Trayvon Walk. I'll I'll say this,
(11:53):
Trayvon quietly has been pretty good to lack gotten better
and better he's got and which is what the hope
was with his physical ability. I think linebacker's tough for
the fifth year option because of the number involved, and
I think they'd rather take their chance to see. My
favorite thing about it is I think the quote was
(12:13):
because there's a new GM and head coach in Jacksonville,
we want to get to know him better, Like the
day after they do the fifth year option for Trayvon Walker,
the Devin Lloyd is we want to get to know him. Like, wait,
I don't understand, like the new GM and head coach
don't need to get to know Trayvon Walker better.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Also, you only have two more weeks to get to
know him before you have to make this fifth It's
a nice way of saying we're not going to do it.
See that's why if people that were attending the broadcast
boot camp should pay attention to Ross what he did
right there. I put him on the spot with a
tough question number one. He answered it, but then he
answered what would have been a better question, which is
about Trayvon Walker, a more interesting question, and then he
(12:51):
made a point about the linebacker money which is not
exactly answering that question, but it's more interesting than anything
I asked in the first place.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
And that's why he's a pro.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Somehow, it still came back to you in the ES.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Well, they all do.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Let's talk about a couple of just quick retirements. Toron
Armstead retired from the Miami Dolphins. We thought this might
be coming. It puts them in a little bit of
a tough spot. They are an an organization.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
You know what they are. They don't know what they are.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
What do you think they are?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
I think there are two people on the hot seat
entering this season who have to start drafting and identifying
talent that could potentially be an escape patch, a backup plan.
You have to show Stephen Ross that you have a
Plan B this time around if things go haywire with
your Plan A, as it has multiple seasons in a row,
and you.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Really can't say anything Stephen Ross because he gets eight
pluses across the board from the NFLPA report card, Like,
it's not meris career, it's you.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I always say something if you're a Dolphins fan, which
is that the Stephen Ross era has been largely disappointing.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
It's been.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
It's been a lot of seven and nine, seven and tens.
Now it hasn't been you know, including any playoff wins.
That's pretty disappointed.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I always have a theory about like the Dolphins and
the Chargers, especially when they were in San Diego. Those
teams are always like talented but they're oft injured. There's
something about being in these incredible weather locations. I don't
know what it is, but they always fall short of expectations.
(14:21):
They're always talented, but disappointing and oft injured. I don't
know San Diego Chargers and Miami Dolphins. Now it's the
LA Chargers. They're like the same team to me.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
They that is a great point.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I do want to give some love to Toronto Armstead,
who surprisingly to me, actually didn't make as many like
all pro teams as I expected. But that was because
of the injuries throughout his career that he couldn't stay
on the field. But when he was on the field,
you know, one of the best at what he did
change that Saints team for a long time and the
Dolphins team. You could see very clear ab testing when
(14:50):
Armstead was on the field the last handful of years,
they were a different offense than when he wasn't. So
he's a big guy to replace, but happy trails to him,
Happy trails to Julio Jones, who also officially retired your sign.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
I have a great Hulu Jones story. He has changed
the way that a lot of young assistants who have
come through the Shanahan coaching tree actually coach receivers, like
his existence changed the way that they communicate their techniques,
the way that they communicate their offensive scripts, their offensive plans,
(15:23):
how they install things. Because he was so like cerebrally
elite at speaking this language that translated across the entire offense.
And so Micha Lafleur told me this story once where
he was coaching in Atlanta, and you know, he's trying
to explain this offense and like how many yards downfield
(15:43):
he wants the receivers to run before they break inward,
and he's explaining it in these terms that he had
come up with, that he had coached with before, that
were like the hard and fast methods that this is
how you say it, and this is you don't explain why,
and this is what you say. And Julio was sort
of in the mix being like not really doing the
(16:06):
thing that Mike was saying, very specifically in Mike's own mind,
and Mike was like, I'm I have to be wrong here,
Like I'm wrong because if this guy, this absolutely elite
player who is so gifted and actually could translate any
concept to either any side of the ball, to anybody,
if he's doing it this way, then I can't be
(16:27):
doing it this way. I have to do it a
completely different way, and I have to change the way
that I speak and the way that I think, and
that has a trickle out effect to a lot of
other people that were sort of in the orbit of
those buildings at the time. And I just think that's fast,
like the ripple effect that one person, one player can have,
not just in the league's history, but in the way
things are taught and explained within the league's history.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Real quick. I just love that you brought up those
two guys. A pet peeve of mine is like, I
don't know why Julio did it on something I've never
heard of on a Friday afternoon.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
And Toronto Julio Jones, Yeah, and Toronto.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
A Saturday night at a party. We just move on,
Like those guys had unbelievable careers, right, you played double
digit ears. They both made well over one hundred million dollars.
They both went to a bunch of Pro Bowls. Yet
the way we are is like, oh okay, and you
just move on, right, Like, I am glad even though
it's like a week later or whatever it is now,
(17:24):
I'm glad that we are giving those guys their due
because they deserve.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, it's one of those things.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Julio Jones one of the best wide receivers I've ever
seen at his peak, and he had a six year
run where he had at least fourteen hundred yards in
every one of those seas. They're actually the sixth year
he had thirteen hundred and ninety four, led the league
and receiving with eighteen hundred and seventy one yards one year,
and led the league with sixteen hundred yards another year,
like five straight where he's on an All Pro team.
(17:50):
He is an all timer. And that catch he made
in the Super Bowl to put them in field goal
range from Matt Ryan. As great a throw as it
was from Matt Ryan, it was an even better catch
and it should have been one of the all time
moments that any receiver has ever had in a Super Bowl.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah, then what happened.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It didn't work out.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
But that's the thing, that's why it sucks being a
receiver because it has nothing to do with Julio Jones
like he did it. Forget David Tyree. I mean, you
couldn't do that again. Julio Jones was all skill like
that was the best player at his position, making the
biggest play in the biggest of moments, and because the
rest of the team couldn't finish it out, like, it
(18:32):
doesn't get remembered that way, but it gets remembered by
me who he was the man. So I'm glad you
pointed that out because I did want to mention that quickly.
Just a couple other items, then we're going to take
a break. The Chargers sign Trey Lance. Just thought that
was interesting. So he's not going to the UFL. I
can fix him, yes, but he'll be the third quarterback
there behind Taylor Heineke and Justin Herbert Allen Lazard is
(18:53):
staying with the Jets on less money. On Thursday, the
Colts released Matt Gay, who was the highest paid kicker
in the at one point.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
World champion Matt Gay that's absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
My daughter's favorite player for a long time. That Gase
still drafts.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Sean McVay never actually knew his name. He just referred
to him as jacked kicker.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
That's rude, h And you mentioned it. The off season
program has started around the league. Like there are players
lifting weights. I get football is back.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I used to love the off season program. Why because
after a couple months back living in my parents' house
in Pennsylvania. Okay, and as much as I love that,
you know, I'm twenty two to twenty eight, I go
back to Pennsylvania. I was ready to get to the city.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You could afford an apartment though I.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Could, but nobody stays around, like after those couple months
after the season, It's like the facility's a dead zone. Right,
So I'd go home. It was great. My mom would
make me meals and I'd go out and whatever. Right,
So then I'd go back. And first of all, you
get like one hundred and eighty bucks a day or
whatever it is. I know that sounds like nothing, but
(20:00):
when you're in your twenties, I would think about all
my buddies were paying fifty bucks to go to Gold's gym.
I'm getting one hundred and eighty dollars to do what
I have to do anyway, which is work out for
lifting for football. And I would go there and have breakfast,
I would have lunch. I would pack up whatever lunch
I didn't have, I would pack up something else. That
(20:22):
would be my dinner. So three delicious, three delicious healthy
meals getting for that.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I remember you were with the Cardinals and they would yes,
I remember.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
So, Greg, You guys appreciate this real quick. When I
resigned with New England one year deal two thousand and six, Okay,
my wife and I had just gotten married, so we're
both like twenty six. So she moves up. They have
some apartment complex and Cumberland, Rhode Island. So my wife,
who's very much a working woman, for that year, she
says she was a real housewife of Cumberlin, Rhode Island. Right,
(20:56):
all you do is lyft weight, It's Mondays, your Thursday,
that's it every week. And Cape Cod Martha's Vineyard. Hell, yeah, Nantucket, Newport.
We're like, we're both in Pennsylvania. We're like we're never
living here again. It was unbelievable, like it was. It
was like the whole off season. It was one of
the greatest six months. Stretches of money, Lift Weights, Money
to Thursday and then have incredible weekends. We're on Martha's vineyard.
(21:20):
My sister had just had my niece Caroline. We're singing
Sweet Caroline karaoke. The place is going crazy. We had
no idea that was the Red Sox theme song. My
wife and I so we're looking at each other like
we are awesome. He love us, We're the greatest thing.
We had no idea it's the Red Sox like seventh
(21:40):
Inning stretch song or something.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
I wonder if Ross ever voyage to your restaurant where
you the.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Cea shanty where I was a waiter and did in
Martha's Vineyards from like two thousands.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I don't like to repeat that story too often here,
but I yes, I did catch myself like staring out
into the boats on the water, and then another waiter
was like, dude, you've been staring at for like thirty seconds.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Maybe during that time Ross came in and ate and then.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Last you brought fire.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
I was a little bit before Ross was there. I'm
a little I'm a little older than Ross's and it
was a choice. Ross, by the way, for you to
still be living at your parents. I don't cast any
aspersions on it, but you didn't have to do that.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
No, So when I was twenty two with the Redskins
Washington Now, the week after the season ended, I went
into lift weights. I thought it was like college. The
lights were too off, no coaches were there. I didn't
I didn't know that you didn't stay. Nobody told me
that you leave until the off season program starts. I
(22:48):
couldn't even get anybody who spot me. I was like, Okay,
I guess I'm going back to Pennsylvania because I still
had the apartment in Virginia. But what am I going
to do by myself there?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I know it's absolutely fair. I don't really know what
what that's like. Lifting weights went.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
And hell they're doing they're doing meetings and stuff now too.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
So we got Ben Johnson in the room with Caleb Williams.
They're doing meetings. All right, we're gonna take a quick break.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
We're gonna come back, and we're gonna do a little
exercise to find out some of Ross and Jordan's favorite players.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Right after this.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
All right back on NFL Daily here with a wild tandem,
Ross Tucker, Jordan Rod works.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
It absolutely works.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
It's one of my favorite things about doing this show
is just seeing the different combinations and bringing together smart
football people. And that's why I had an exercise that
I gave you two, which is that we're gonna do
an ideal draft. So it's it's a mock draft. It's
really Jordan's idea. And I can see the look that
she's giving me now.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Just was trying to, like, say, the idea that Greg
opted out of.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I am opting out of this.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I didn't have I didn't feel like I had good
interest and I and there's not a lot of time here,
and so I thought I would just listen to you guys.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
You explain it.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Then, Yeah, this is an ideal draft for a team
about whom you can describe the circumstances within which they
enter the draft.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Oh okay, I found Greig had told me it was
a generic team.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
It could be just generic.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Okay, okay, Okay, that's what I did. I did a generic,
a generic, anonymous team. I just put a couple of
different parameters around it because I wanted to highlight the
people that I most like. Yes, yeah, so truly a
selfish extra. Okay, so I'm learning very well from you, honestly.
But yes, and so we only wanted to go rounds
one through three. Yeah, so why don't we kick it
(24:41):
off with you Ross?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Sure? Yeah, I'm going cam Ward ab Dual Carter, Travis Hunter.
It's the best. Now, I was like that, people are shocked.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Lost the threat of communications.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
People were shocked at ab Dul Carter was still there
in my mock draft.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
And now it is tricky. You have to like think
where am I drafting round two round for you? But
just somewhat realist.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
All right, So what I will say is the two
guys that jumped out to me in the first round
that I couldn't possibly be higher on, and I know
they already get talked about a lot, right, I still
don't think we talk about Travis Hunter as much as
we should, thank you. Okay, you know I had Fran Duffy,
(25:28):
who you know, Greg? He came on one of my
shows this week, the Rosstucker Podcast. He in his database
evaluated two different players, Travis Hunter offensive player, Travis Hunter
defensive player. Both of them were among his top five prospects.
If he was two different human beings. Okay, Todd McShay,
(25:49):
who came on Rosstucker Podcast this week, has him as
the number one receiver, number one corner. I just can't
emphasize enough how nuts that is. Okay, I did Colorado.
I called Colorado Colorado State this past year.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Fun game it was.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
And you know, going to Boulder for his practice. You
ever see like a center fielder that when there's like
a line driver a fly ball, just the way, the
graceful way that they make the catch, or like an
NBA player that like when they get to the rim
for a layup or a finger roll, It just it
(26:25):
just looks beautiful floats. He might have done that four
or five times in one practice where he's like double
covered and jumps earlier than the two dbs or jump.
I just thought this guy's unbelievable. I do think he'll
play both ways in the NFL. I think he has
(26:46):
to be in every defensive back meeting. I would say,
after offensive line, communication is the second most important in
the secondary. You have to be in those meetings, right
he had, so he'd be a full time corner now.
Because it's interesting because I've heard people say, well, if
the Browns take him, maybe he'd be they need him
(27:06):
at receiver, or if the Patriots take him, they need
him at receiver. That's really interesting because then you can't
really put him on defense, but people think that he
might be more ready to contribute offense. My point is,
I know he gets talked about a lot. I know
I won the Heisman. The guy was playing like one
hundred and sixty snaps a game. The guy can't possibly
be in every meeting. I don't even we've never seen
(27:29):
this before or even close to it. I would say
I grew up outside of Philadelphia. I live right near
Penn State. I think Abdul Carter's fantastic. In my mind,
you cannot take Abdul Carter over Travis Hunter. You cannot.
You cannot do it because of his ability to affect
both sides of the ball.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
It's I've never believed that he was somehow going to
get the four at the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
It's just no way. Just was never.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
It's it's kind of a two person draft at that level,
and cam Ward is thrown in there because he's the core,
so they're picking forth in like a three person draft essentially,
But just never make any sense that he would fall
past multiple teams, and I still wouldn't be surprised if
the Browns took him at too.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
My biggest fear for Travis Hunter has nothing to do
with the caliber quality of a prospector player. He is,
by the way, also half of those games at altitude,
which also people don't talk about conditioning all of those snaps,
and that's hard. The air is quite thin.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
I never thought of that. I'm gonna steal that from
now on.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Yours.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It's yours.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
But my biggest concern is that an NFL team, particularly
the ones that frequently pick in the top ten, top
twelve of the draft, that team, I worry, will fail
Travis Hunter because they will not have designed the appropriate
and correct infrastructure internally where he's going to spend his
time and meetings, how he's going to onboard twice as
(28:52):
much information in half the time so that he can
go out and execute and play on the same cadence
and schedule as everybody else. I worry about the organizational
like clarity and infrastructure for a player of his quality
and caliber. I want him. I don't want him to drop.
I just selfishly want to see him go to a
(29:12):
place that's got it, stuff together it.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
It needs to be with an organization that has a
multi year plan. So you're talking about and I've heard
this a lot, and it makes sense, like the amount
of meeting time that he is going to need to
truly master either position, but especially for cornerbacking.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
About how you teach it in a different way, I'm
not saying go and set.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
It also could be like here's our plan for year one.
We're going to have you focus on getting better and
better at this and you have the meeting. Year two,
you're not going to have all that experience, and you're
going to have a longer offseason because you're not preparing
for the draft to okay, and then we're going to
add this part to your game into year two and
like and convince him and have a multi and that
can only happen with an organization that has stability.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
And to Jordan's point, whether it's the Browns at two
or the Giants at three, they don't care at all
about twenty twenty six. I can assure you those guys
need to win in twenty twenty f So Honorable mentioned
My other first round guy would have been Tyler Warren
from Penn State. I watched his high school video because
I was doing some Penn State media at the time,
to watch him at quarterback and then they would like
(30:12):
get near the red zone, they'd put the backup quarterback in.
They would put Tyler at receiver and throw them fade
balls like he wears Umber forty four because his dad
told him too, because of John Riggins, Like I couldn't
love Tyler Warren Moore like you had me at John Riggins,
you know what I mean. Okay, So it was my
first round pick. The two guys on in the second round,
(30:35):
believe it or not, DB's okay. Benjamin Morrison from Notre Dame.
I've had multiple people tell me he's the best corner
they've ever seen it. Nerdame best corner at least in
the last twenty five years. Nor Dame got hurt this
past year. Now he hasn't even worked out. He's you know,
work out like two days before the draft because of
the injury. But if you can get a guy mid
(30:56):
second round that people thought was a first pick and
is the best corner nerd name in twenty five years,
that says something to me. The other guy I liked
there would be the safety out of Texas Andrew mccooba.
I'm a huge fan of guys that a take the
ball away like he did not do it, Clem, somebody
did do a Texas. But also the safety nickel versatility,
(31:19):
think Gardner Johnson. I've seen that first hand in Philly,
the value of having a guy that has corner like Nickel,
corner like skills but can play safety. So those are
my two second round guys. In the third round, I
like two Jacks. Okay, okay. The first guy, Jack Besh,
(31:41):
the receiver. I'm calling this right now. Okay, Jack Besh,
First of all, we all know his older brother, Tiger
Princeton football player like me, passed away tragically. I'm calling
my shot right now. The La Rams, Jordan rod Rieg's
La Ram are drafting Jack Besh and he's gonna win
(32:03):
the third Annual Cooper Cup. Puka Nikoua, how did he
fall to the third round and how did Sean McVeigh
get him? I watch him and I'm like, this guy
is gonna be like Poka ni cool, like he's gonna
go to the Rams.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I don't understand why he's gonna fall that far. And
you're right that that is sort of where he's getting
pre third round and I think the more people watch him,
the takeaway from the tape is all what you said,
and that's it's typical of this draft. And that's why
I think you can credibly say that's your ideal third
round pick, because he's a believable third round pick, because
(32:38):
that's where the strength of this receiver class is that
there's so many that some of them aren't gonna get
taken in the top fifty to fifty five picks even
though it seems like they deserve it. So that might
push the first round wide receivers down because teams are
just gonna wait until round two three.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
The other Jacks are the other Jack is just Jack Sawyer.
Those guys make it in the NFL. And I know
the Sam Hubbard thing has gone a million times. He
reminds you of Sam Howard, but he does like guys
like that, He's going to find a way to be
an above average starter in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Jack Sawyer a lot of disagreement on those. There are
some people that watch Jack Sawyer statement just say that
is not an NFL player. That is like a that
is a late Day three undrafted type of pick that's
getting this.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
It's his ideal college, it's his ideal pick.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I'm just so interested on that out there.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
He was like a top five high school project.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah yeah, all right, Well two years we have to
run out here.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
We've got to let Ross go, I think. But I
want to make sure to rip through mine too. So
mine was for a team with a late career veteran
quarterback on the roster. Wow, who could that be? Picking
outside of the top ten Round one Matthew Golden from Texas.
He has been in a couple of different schemes which
I like. He also knows how to He's like the
perfect player to exploit horizontal and vertical space on the
(33:53):
field because he's used as a motion player. He often
was the Z but he can do a lot of
different things on the perimeter as well. And I know
the knock on him is his size, but I think
speed helps with size deficiencies in some ways. I think
if you are looking at potentially replacing your quarterback in
the next couple of years, which the team I'm talking
(34:15):
about is, then you want to make sure that you're
maximizing the veteran years of that quarterback while also building
a foundation for the younger player. So round two, I've
got Tyler Schuck from I think he's a really gifted.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Quote unquote younger player.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Well, so I don't care about the old thing.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
That's the thing.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
That's the thing. I wrote this out so like, and
I was thinking about this. I was getting really fired
up when I was doing my notes on this, probably
because I've spent too much time with the RAM scouting department,
because they do not care about old players or short arms.
So he throws well on the move, and I know
he could be twenty six or twenty seven by the
time he starts. I don't care he I like he's
seen a ton of football. I like that he's only started,
(34:57):
you know, eight or less games until the final year
of his college career, which is not the same type
of wear and tear on the body.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
That acordad right, because he's always hurt.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
Playing a ton of a ton of time. I think
if you can get the medicals cleared and you can,
you have a player who's not going to take the
type of abuse that we sometimes do get worried about
with with older prospects. Like, I think that that's a fit.
I like that he's seen stuff. I like that he
understands multiple schemes and multiple things, and so I think
that the right team with a two year plan, maybe
with their current starter, is going to gravitate toward him.
(35:29):
And for that reason, also if you're looking at a
long term replacement, one of my draft crushes is in
the third round Boston College offensive tackle Ozzie Trapilo. Oh.
He's a gap scheme guy and his own scheme guy.
He's a fit, he's a starter. He also is super disciplined.
No penalties in his three years as a starter. I
(35:49):
know you gotta love that. I feel like you've got
and he's on the right right tackle.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
You know what that reminds me of. That's like someone
that has a four point zero gpm, like you might
have been studying a little bit too much, Like do
you really want a four point zero gpa and college?
Do you really want to never have one penalty? Give
me one unnecessary run, like.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
If anything, not getting enough fouls and like a youth
basketball game, you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
That's why you got to get him and sit him
as a swing guy behind somebody who's already playing, and
you got to make him mean a little bit meaner.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
You gotta a little bit, a little bit, I'm feeling
mean right now because we got to end this thing.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Ross has gotta go. We gotta get out of here.
That's it for this show.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I loved having you guys in and I love the
the intensity with which happened with just having a deadline
on here.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
But they're saying, like, we gotta.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Get the important part people, Let's do it. That was
it for today's show. Just a little extra for you.
We will be back on Monday. We're going to be
talking defensive draft prospects with Ali Connelly. I think he
likes some of the same guys that Ross does, including
the Macouba. And yes, when teams are back in the
building lifting weights again, I believe that's the original football
(36:54):
is back.
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're still on island time.
I'm Greg Rosenthal in the Chris Westling podcast studio with
a pair of a surprising pair of guests, Jordan Rodrigue
of The Athletic and Ross Tucker of a Million Ross
Tucker named podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome, Welcome, Ross.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yeah, this is awesome. I'm out here for the They
used to call it the broadcast Bootcamp.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I thought they still did.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
They don't know, that's the Broadcasting and Media Workshop. So
it's something bay change. I actually went. I went to
the first one they ever had, two thousand and seven
NFL films while I was still a player. I did
a million terrible things. Yet I still have a career
in the media, which is nice. And I'm a huge
fan of Jordan and the work that she does, so
(00:49):
it's very cool to be all with her.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
So I think we made Greg feel really left out.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Ross.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
We might have to apologize him because Ross and I
spent the first five minutes of studio time, as you were,
like busy trying to put a show together, fangirling over
each other.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So I love it, and I love I love like
the instant pressure that this podcast has because We're taping
this during broadcast boot camps lunch break, which like started
a little late, so we are on the clock here
that we have to finish this show quickly, and yet
we have three of the biggest honkers that I've ever
seen who just like like to talk a lot. I
(01:26):
know that because you know, Ross and I go way back.
I believe we were once on like a Yes Network
show together, like one or two that I that I
was on where I was a fantasy football guy. We
were definitely on some NBC Sports Channel shows together, and
that network doesn't even exist anymore. And Ross had such
(01:46):
a signature time at our friend Matt Casey's wedding that
whenever my wife Amica hears his voice doing a game
on TV, she's like, oh, I recognize that voice.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I recognize that voice from the wedding. That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
And Jordan, I appreciate that you looked happy to see
me when we said, jother, it's spend a couple weeks,
which is actually the longest I believe we haven't seen
each other since you've started here at NFL Daily. But
I have to be real with the audience and we're
going to get going. I took a vacation this week.
I was gone from Friday to Wednesday. We put up
some shows that were in the can. So to me,
I'm such a news person, I feel weird about it.
(02:20):
So we are going to like try to catch up
on a little bit of news and then I'm going
to hear what we're calling your ideal draft where you
go first round, second round, third round, and we're going
to do this all in a quick amount of time.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Let's start. So he says, yeah, we don't have any options.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Ross literally has to teach like the future great broadcasters
of America. And I told Ross this separately, but broadcaster
like Ross has always been great and he fills a
lot of different roles. But I really love seeing like
his development as like a color guy on these big
games because I think he is better now. He's just
hitting his broadcasting prime right now.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, I'll just say every time they announced that, I'm
like getting a bump up at CBS or whatever I'm doing.
You always either text me or send a tweet. And
I know that you watch every game, So it means
a lot when people that I know that actually watch
the games appreciate what I do to it. It means
more than you know that someone that I know that.
It's not like my mom My, mom doesn't.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Even watch you were so good, Ross, Like.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Mom, you didn't even watch. You just watched the first
thirty seconds when I'm on camera and then he turned
to a Lifetime movie. You don't even watch me like
Greg at least watches.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Greg's like parsing your cadence and every breath that you take.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
No I studies these I learned things from Ross and
that's the important thing. You can tell. He really does
the work.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And yeah, you should check out the Ross Tucker football
program every day Ross Tucker Daily. He was first in
the Daily Game, essentially the podcast during the season. Let's
talk news, though, let's talk this is just I don't
even know if I want to call this news, but
it's the most recent thing that I saw pop up,
and it was TJ Watches throwing up a peace sign
on Instagram. And there's no reporting around it yet, but
(03:54):
it does show potentially to me, Ross, I don't even
know if you know about this one that like there's
something going on there between his contract situation with the Steelers.
I would be a little stunned if anything popped up.
But if you just took a step back, it actually
wouldn't be that crazy to me for the Steelers to
entertain the idea of trading TJ.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Watt.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
But we can't be given that good content, can't we?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
All right, hold on a second, two things. Number one,
this is one of the issues when you elect to
trade for DK Metcalf and give him that much money,
and you're paying a guy that much that's never done
anything for your organization. Whereas TJ. Watt, he's been your
best player pretty much since day one, and he's done
(04:36):
the last year of his deal, and he is seeing
what Miles Garrett and these other guys are getting Max Crosby,
and he said, wait minute, Miles Garrett had a couple
of years left on his deal. Max Crosby had a
couple of years left. This is my last year. What
about me? So that's someone and Greg, I actually totally
agree with you there. It's not going to happen because
(04:58):
it's not the Steeler way. But there is a universe
where the Steelers recognize they're not really going anywhere unless
they have a legitimate quarterback, especially in the AFC, and
they trade TJ. Watt for something. I don't know if
that's a quarterback or picks or whatever, but they decide
(05:19):
we're not even if they get Aaron Rodgers this year,
like what's the upside one playoff win? Maybe like they
win a playoff game. There is a scenario where people realize,
let's not get Rogers, Let's go with Mason Rudolph or
a rookie. Let's trade TJ. Watt, and let's try to
rebuild this thing from the ground up. It's just not
the Steeler away.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
But I think too the duality of these scenarios here,
we have to factor in the time. Right the time
of this post off season programming is starting for some
teams with new coaches, and we'll be starting for other
teams very soon. If you are going to say potentially
hold out of that programming, that's when you start posting
things to your social media accounts making it clear where
you stand. There are two scenarios here that I think
(05:58):
are very plausible that the Steelers probably are and should
be thinking about. If you bring in Rogers, you're like, okay,
maybe we adjust TJ. Watt's steal. You play on that
twenty twenty five deal, we revisit the conversation after that,
because we maybe get one good year out of Rogers
at it yet to be determined number. So then once
you have that number in your building, you know what
you can do with TJ. Watt to sort of say, like,
(06:18):
we're going to go all in for this season on
the last year of your contract. Revisit it after or
as you're saying, which I know is not the steal away,
but you don't get Rogers and now you're going to
go with a rookie or a Mason Rudolph And now
you think, okay, we got a clean house on some
of the older players on their defensive side.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
It's not what they do. But he's he's thirty years old,
which kind of snuck up on me. There was like
a sort of a hipster tape watching group last year
that was like, well, if you think about it, like
by the numbers and maybe why what you see you
could argue that TJ. Watt was the fourth best pass
rusher on the Steelers last year.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
That on a personap basis.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
You did argue that Nick KRBCT well it was just like.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
The I am the hipster Nick Herbig, who was awesome,
and Alex High Smith, who was awesome, and then obviously
Cam Hayward who plays a different position but well.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Also, by the way, Cam had a contract situation last
year and he was vocal about it and he wasn't
happy and they ended up getting that done.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I think they get it done.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
But it is interesting that he is at the point
of his career that you could you could get a
lot for him. And I don't know, They're an interesting
team to watch over draft weekend because we've been talking
about how George Pickens I still not totally convinced is
on this team in twenty twenty five, and so we
will see just just a situation to watch, and it
reminds me a little bit of his brother, JJ Watt,
who was not above really was sort of an original
(07:42):
guy to use social media occasionally to send messages either
to teams or just about himself or whatever. And so
why not have TJ Watt act like a wide receiver.
Jack Jones cut by the Raiders. We're catching up, so,
like I said, we haven't done news on the show
each so we'll fly through the quick but I just
wanted to kind of mention that Jack Jones was cut
(08:02):
by the Raiders, who was a starting cornerback for them,
and then we did kind of close a circle on
the Geno contract, which people made a big deal out of,
really wasn't that much better over two years than Sam Darnold.
But the main thing is it guaranteed him fifty eight
million dollars. He makes forty million in year one, and
he's with Pete Carroll and he's with Pete Carroll eighteen
guarantees him eighteen million dollars in year tease, So that
(08:24):
was a difference between him and the Raiders and what
Seattle was going to do. But it is crazy ross
like in an era where money and all this stuff.
It really sounds like the personal connection between Gino and
Pete Carroll is a big reason why they didn't really
negotiate much with the Seahawks. He said, Pete Carroll was
calling him on a weekly basis. They were talking during
last season and like coaching him up and like putting
(08:46):
him in a better headspace because he was all messed
up about his money and the lack of a contract
he was getting from Seattle, and like Pete Carroll was
essentially helping out the Seahawks getting his mind right to
play better for the Seahawks while he wasn't even the
Seahawks coach.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Are you sure about that? Because when I read that
story and when I heard Geno talking about how they
talk all the time and Pete Carroll was there for him,
Pete Carroll's not happy that the Seahawks moved on from him.
Pete Carroll wanted to continue to coach the Seahawks. So
I'm picturing Pete Carroll saying that is disrespectful, not knowing,
(09:22):
not knowing he was going to go to the Raiders,
but saying, how could they treat you like this? You're
the reason why they got to the playoffs. They're not.
They don't want to guarantee any money in the second year.
I wouldn't even negotiate because Gino said that the Seahawks
offered a contract and his agent didn't even counter. Yeah,
Like he wanted to go, He wanted to leave and
go somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
He wanted to go to Pete. He wanted to go
to Pete Carroll.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Tired of the year to year right, so at least
he feels about secure about his second year with the Raiders,
whereas the Seahawks very clearly want to do this one
year at a time at quarterback.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Yeah, my colleague Michael Sean Jugar has a book coming
out about the Legion of Era Seattle Seahawks. Very excited
about that. But he's outlined some of this to me,
whether he was there seeing it firsthand or also just
talking to me about it over time. Pete Carroll is
the one that had the relationships in the building, not
John Schneider. And John Schneider has done some great things
(10:17):
as a GM and has done some questionable things, particularly
upfront as a GM, but also the players they connect
with Pete Carroll. If there are no ties left really
for you in that building, from the coaching staff to
the front office, and those ties exist somewhere else, absolutely,
I can see why this domino effect happens.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Right, And I mean there are ties with the players,
and he rebuilt his career there and he said he
enjoyed playing under Mike McDonald. I think just this everything
coming together with him having this opportunity with Pete Carroll
gives me a new team to root for. Tree McBride
got big money since we last like taped the live show.
That was like literally as we were walking out the
building last time, forty three million dollars guaranteed four years,
(10:57):
sixty seventy six million dollars overall. I still remember him
as this kind of lost sort of rookie on the
all or Nothing series that only I watched. I think
that was the last dollar nothing series of the Arizona Cardinal,
and he was just like this fish out of water
who really wasn't doing anything in his career at that
point and now one of the best tight ends in
the league. The Jaguars picked up the fifth year option
(11:18):
for Trayvon Walker. I thought that was interesting that they
did that, but they didn't do it for linebacker Devin Lloyd.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Give it.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I just want to test Ross here. What does your
Devin Lloyd take see with no preparation? Do you have
an opinion about Devin Lloyd?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, I think that he's probably been disappointing. I think
Trayvon Walker on some level has been I think I
think they've both been fine. But there's a reason why
the GM's not there anymore that you clearly have people
to compare them to, Like they could have taken Aiden
Hutchinson and they went Trayvon Walk. I'll I'll say this,
(11:53):
Trayvon quietly has been pretty good to lack gotten better
and better he's got and which is what the hope
was with his physical ability. I think linebacker's tough for
the fifth year option because of the number involved, and
I think they'd rather take their chance to see. My
favorite thing about it is I think the quote was
(12:13):
because there's a new GM and head coach in Jacksonville,
we want to get to know him better, Like the
day after they do the fifth year option for Trayvon Walker,
the Devin Lloyd is we want to get to know him. Like, wait,
I don't understand, like the new GM and head coach
don't need to get to know Trayvon Walker better.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Also, you only have two more weeks to get to
know him before you have to make this fifth It's
a nice way of saying we're not going to do it.
See that's why if people that were attending the broadcast
boot camp should pay attention to Ross what he did
right there. I put him on the spot with a
tough question number one. He answered it, but then he
answered what would have been a better question, which is
about Trayvon Walker, a more interesting question, and then he
(12:51):
made a point about the linebacker money which is not
exactly answering that question, but it's more interesting than anything
I asked in the first place.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
And that's why he's a pro.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Somehow, it still came back to you in the ES.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Well, they all do.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Let's talk about a couple of just quick retirements. Toron
Armstead retired from the Miami Dolphins. We thought this might
be coming. It puts them in a little bit of
a tough spot. They are an an organization.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
You know what they are. They don't know what they are.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
What do you think they are?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
I think there are two people on the hot seat
entering this season who have to start drafting and identifying
talent that could potentially be an escape patch, a backup plan.
You have to show Stephen Ross that you have a
Plan B this time around if things go haywire with
your Plan A, as it has multiple seasons in a row,
and you.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Really can't say anything Stephen Ross because he gets eight
pluses across the board from the NFLPA report card, Like,
it's not meris career, it's you.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I always say something if you're a Dolphins fan, which
is that the Stephen Ross era has been largely disappointing.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
It's been.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
It's been a lot of seven and nine, seven and tens.
Now it hasn't been you know, including any playoff wins.
That's pretty disappointed.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I always have a theory about like the Dolphins and
the Chargers, especially when they were in San Diego. Those
teams are always like talented but they're oft injured. There's
something about being in these incredible weather locations. I don't
know what it is, but they always fall short of expectations.
(14:21):
They're always talented, but disappointing and oft injured. I don't
know San Diego Chargers and Miami Dolphins. Now it's the
LA Chargers. They're like the same team to me.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
They that is a great point.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I do want to give some love to Toronto Armstead,
who surprisingly to me, actually didn't make as many like
all pro teams as I expected. But that was because
of the injuries throughout his career that he couldn't stay
on the field. But when he was on the field,
you know, one of the best at what he did
change that Saints team for a long time and the
Dolphins team. You could see very clear ab testing when
(14:50):
Armstead was on the field the last handful of years,
they were a different offense than when he wasn't. So
he's a big guy to replace, but happy trails to him,
Happy trails to Julio Jones, who also officially retired your sign.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
I have a great Hulu Jones story. He has changed
the way that a lot of young assistants who have
come through the Shanahan coaching tree actually coach receivers, like
his existence changed the way that they communicate their techniques,
the way that they communicate their offensive scripts, their offensive plans,
(15:23):
how they install things. Because he was so like cerebrally
elite at speaking this language that translated across the entire offense.
And so Micha Lafleur told me this story once where
he was coaching in Atlanta, and you know, he's trying
to explain this offense and like how many yards downfield
(15:43):
he wants the receivers to run before they break inward,
and he's explaining it in these terms that he had
come up with, that he had coached with before, that
were like the hard and fast methods that this is
how you say it, and this is you don't explain why,
and this is what you say. And Julio was sort
of in the mix being like not really doing the
(16:06):
thing that Mike was saying, very specifically in Mike's own mind,
and Mike was like, I'm I have to be wrong here,
Like I'm wrong because if this guy, this absolutely elite
player who is so gifted and actually could translate any
concept to either any side of the ball, to anybody,
if he's doing it this way, then I can't be
(16:27):
doing it this way. I have to do it a
completely different way, and I have to change the way
that I speak and the way that I think, and
that has a trickle out effect to a lot of
other people that were sort of in the orbit of
those buildings at the time. And I just think that's fast,
like the ripple effect that one person, one player can have,
not just in the league's history, but in the way
things are taught and explained within the league's history.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Real quick. I just love that you brought up those
two guys. A pet peeve of mine is like, I
don't know why Julio did it on something I've never
heard of on a Friday afternoon.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
And Toronto Julio Jones, Yeah, and Toronto.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
A Saturday night at a party. We just move on,
Like those guys had unbelievable careers, right, you played double
digit ears. They both made well over one hundred million dollars.
They both went to a bunch of Pro Bowls. Yet
the way we are is like, oh okay, and you
just move on, right, Like, I am glad even though
it's like a week later or whatever it is now,
(17:24):
I'm glad that we are giving those guys their due
because they deserve.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, it's one of those things.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Julio Jones one of the best wide receivers I've ever
seen at his peak, and he had a six year
run where he had at least fourteen hundred yards in
every one of those seas. They're actually the sixth year
he had thirteen hundred and ninety four, led the league
and receiving with eighteen hundred and seventy one yards one year,
and led the league with sixteen hundred yards another year,
like five straight where he's on an All Pro team.
(17:50):
He is an all timer. And that catch he made
in the Super Bowl to put them in field goal
range from Matt Ryan. As great a throw as it
was from Matt Ryan, it was an even better catch
and it should have been one of the all time
moments that any receiver has ever had in a Super Bowl.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah, then what happened.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It didn't work out.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
But that's the thing, that's why it sucks being a
receiver because it has nothing to do with Julio Jones
like he did it. Forget David Tyree. I mean, you
couldn't do that again. Julio Jones was all skill like
that was the best player at his position, making the
biggest play in the biggest of moments, and because the
rest of the team couldn't finish it out, like, it
(18:32):
doesn't get remembered that way, but it gets remembered by
me who he was the man. So I'm glad you
pointed that out because I did want to mention that quickly.
Just a couple other items, then we're going to take
a break. The Chargers sign Trey Lance. Just thought that
was interesting. So he's not going to the UFL. I
can fix him, yes, but he'll be the third quarterback
there behind Taylor Heineke and Justin Herbert Allen Lazard is
(18:53):
staying with the Jets on less money. On Thursday, the
Colts released Matt Gay, who was the highest paid kicker
in the at one point.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
World champion Matt Gay that's absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
My daughter's favorite player for a long time. That Gase
still drafts.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Sean McVay never actually knew his name. He just referred
to him as jacked kicker.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
That's rude, h And you mentioned it. The off season
program has started around the league. Like there are players
lifting weights. I get football is back.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I used to love the off season program. Why because
after a couple months back living in my parents' house
in Pennsylvania. Okay, and as much as I love that,
you know, I'm twenty two to twenty eight, I go
back to Pennsylvania. I was ready to get to the city.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You could afford an apartment though I.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Could, but nobody stays around, like after those couple months
after the season, It's like the facility's a dead zone. Right,
So I'd go home. It was great. My mom would
make me meals and I'd go out and whatever. Right,
So then I'd go back. And first of all, you
get like one hundred and eighty bucks a day or
whatever it is. I know that sounds like nothing, but
(20:00):
when you're in your twenties, I would think about all
my buddies were paying fifty bucks to go to Gold's gym.
I'm getting one hundred and eighty dollars to do what
I have to do anyway, which is work out for
lifting for football. And I would go there and have breakfast,
I would have lunch. I would pack up whatever lunch
I didn't have, I would pack up something else. That
(20:22):
would be my dinner. So three delicious, three delicious healthy
meals getting for that.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I remember you were with the Cardinals and they would yes,
I remember.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
So, Greg, You guys appreciate this real quick. When I
resigned with New England one year deal two thousand and six, Okay,
my wife and I had just gotten married, so we're
both like twenty six. So she moves up. They have
some apartment complex and Cumberland, Rhode Island. So my wife,
who's very much a working woman, for that year, she
says she was a real housewife of Cumberlin, Rhode Island. Right,
(20:56):
all you do is lyft weight, It's Mondays, your Thursday,
that's it every week. And Cape Cod Martha's Vineyard. Hell, yeah, Nantucket, Newport.
We're like, we're both in Pennsylvania. We're like we're never
living here again. It was unbelievable, like it was. It
was like the whole off season. It was one of
the greatest six months. Stretches of money, Lift Weights, Money
to Thursday and then have incredible weekends. We're on Martha's vineyard.
(21:20):
My sister had just had my niece Caroline. We're singing
Sweet Caroline karaoke. The place is going crazy. We had
no idea that was the Red Sox theme song. My
wife and I so we're looking at each other like
we are awesome. He love us, We're the greatest thing.
We had no idea it's the Red Sox like seventh
(21:40):
Inning stretch song or something.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
I wonder if Ross ever voyage to your restaurant where
you the.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Cea shanty where I was a waiter and did in
Martha's Vineyards from like two thousands.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I don't like to repeat that story too often here,
but I yes, I did catch myself like staring out
into the boats on the water, and then another waiter
was like, dude, you've been staring at for like thirty seconds.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Maybe during that time Ross came in and ate and then.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Last you brought fire.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
I was a little bit before Ross was there. I'm
a little I'm a little older than Ross's and it
was a choice. Ross, by the way, for you to
still be living at your parents. I don't cast any
aspersions on it, but you didn't have to do that.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
No, So when I was twenty two with the Redskins
Washington Now, the week after the season ended, I went
into lift weights. I thought it was like college. The
lights were too off, no coaches were there. I didn't
I didn't know that you didn't stay. Nobody told me
that you leave until the off season program starts. I
(22:48):
couldn't even get anybody who spot me. I was like, Okay,
I guess I'm going back to Pennsylvania because I still
had the apartment in Virginia. But what am I going
to do by myself there?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I know it's absolutely fair. I don't really know what
what that's like. Lifting weights went.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
And hell they're doing they're doing meetings and stuff now too.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
So we got Ben Johnson in the room with Caleb Williams.
They're doing meetings. All right, we're gonna take a quick break.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
We're gonna come back, and we're gonna do a little
exercise to find out some of Ross and Jordan's favorite players.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Right after this.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
All right back on NFL Daily here with a wild tandem,
Ross Tucker, Jordan Rod works.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
It absolutely works.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
It's one of my favorite things about doing this show
is just seeing the different combinations and bringing together smart
football people. And that's why I had an exercise that
I gave you two, which is that we're gonna do
an ideal draft. So it's it's a mock draft. It's
really Jordan's idea. And I can see the look that
she's giving me now.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Just was trying to, like, say, the idea that Greg
opted out of.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I am opting out of this.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I didn't have I didn't feel like I had good
interest and I and there's not a lot of time here,
and so I thought I would just listen to you guys.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
You explain it.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Then, Yeah, this is an ideal draft for a team
about whom you can describe the circumstances within which they
enter the draft.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Oh okay, I found Greig had told me it was
a generic team.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
It could be just generic.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Okay, okay, Okay, that's what I did. I did a generic,
a generic, anonymous team. I just put a couple of
different parameters around it because I wanted to highlight the
people that I most like. Yes, yeah, so truly a
selfish extra. Okay, so I'm learning very well from you, honestly.
But yes, and so we only wanted to go rounds
one through three. Yeah, so why don't we kick it
(24:41):
off with you Ross?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Sure? Yeah, I'm going cam Ward ab Dual Carter, Travis Hunter.
It's the best. Now, I was like that, people are shocked.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Lost the threat of communications.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
People were shocked at ab Dul Carter was still there
in my mock draft.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
And now it is tricky. You have to like think
where am I drafting round two round for you? But
just somewhat realist.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
All right, So what I will say is the two
guys that jumped out to me in the first round
that I couldn't possibly be higher on, and I know
they already get talked about a lot, right, I still
don't think we talk about Travis Hunter as much as
we should, thank you. Okay, you know I had Fran Duffy,
(25:28):
who you know, Greg? He came on one of my
shows this week, the Rosstucker Podcast. He in his database
evaluated two different players, Travis Hunter offensive player, Travis Hunter
defensive player. Both of them were among his top five prospects.
If he was two different human beings. Okay, Todd McShay,
(25:49):
who came on Rosstucker Podcast this week, has him as
the number one receiver, number one corner. I just can't
emphasize enough how nuts that is. Okay, I did Colorado.
I called Colorado Colorado State this past year.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Fun game it was.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
And you know, going to Boulder for his practice. You
ever see like a center fielder that when there's like
a line driver a fly ball, just the way, the
graceful way that they make the catch, or like an
NBA player that like when they get to the rim
for a layup or a finger roll, It just it
(26:25):
just looks beautiful floats. He might have done that four
or five times in one practice where he's like double
covered and jumps earlier than the two dbs or jump.
I just thought this guy's unbelievable. I do think he'll
play both ways in the NFL. I think he has
(26:46):
to be in every defensive back meeting. I would say,
after offensive line, communication is the second most important in
the secondary. You have to be in those meetings, right
he had, so he'd be a full time corner now.
Because it's interesting because I've heard people say, well, if
the Browns take him, maybe he'd be they need him
(27:06):
at receiver, or if the Patriots take him, they need
him at receiver. That's really interesting because then you can't
really put him on defense, but people think that he
might be more ready to contribute offense. My point is,
I know he gets talked about a lot. I know
I won the Heisman. The guy was playing like one
hundred and sixty snaps a game. The guy can't possibly
be in every meeting. I don't even we've never seen
(27:29):
this before or even close to it. I would say
I grew up outside of Philadelphia. I live right near
Penn State. I think Abdul Carter's fantastic. In my mind,
you cannot take Abdul Carter over Travis Hunter. You cannot.
You cannot do it because of his ability to affect
both sides of the ball.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
It's I've never believed that he was somehow going to
get the four at the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
It's just no way. Just was never.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
It's it's kind of a two person draft at that level,
and cam Ward is thrown in there because he's the core,
so they're picking forth in like a three person draft essentially,
But just never make any sense that he would fall
past multiple teams, and I still wouldn't be surprised if
the Browns took him at too.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
My biggest fear for Travis Hunter has nothing to do
with the caliber quality of a prospector player. He is,
by the way, also half of those games at altitude,
which also people don't talk about conditioning all of those snaps,
and that's hard. The air is quite thin.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
I never thought of that. I'm gonna steal that from
now on.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Yours.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It's yours.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
But my biggest concern is that an NFL team, particularly
the ones that frequently pick in the top ten, top
twelve of the draft, that team, I worry, will fail
Travis Hunter because they will not have designed the appropriate
and correct infrastructure internally where he's going to spend his
time and meetings, how he's going to onboard twice as
(28:52):
much information in half the time so that he can
go out and execute and play on the same cadence
and schedule as everybody else. I worry about the organizational
like clarity and infrastructure for a player of his quality
and caliber. I want him. I don't want him to drop.
I just selfishly want to see him go to a
(29:12):
place that's got it, stuff together it.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
It needs to be with an organization that has a
multi year plan. So you're talking about and I've heard
this a lot, and it makes sense, like the amount
of meeting time that he is going to need to
truly master either position, but especially for cornerbacking.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
About how you teach it in a different way, I'm
not saying go and set.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
It also could be like here's our plan for year one.
We're going to have you focus on getting better and
better at this and you have the meeting. Year two,
you're not going to have all that experience, and you're
going to have a longer offseason because you're not preparing
for the draft to okay, and then we're going to
add this part to your game into year two and
like and convince him and have a multi and that
can only happen with an organization that has stability.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
And to Jordan's point, whether it's the Browns at two
or the Giants at three, they don't care at all
about twenty twenty six. I can assure you those guys
need to win in twenty twenty f So Honorable mentioned
My other first round guy would have been Tyler Warren
from Penn State. I watched his high school video because
I was doing some Penn State media at the time,
to watch him at quarterback and then they would like
(30:12):
get near the red zone, they'd put the backup quarterback in.
They would put Tyler at receiver and throw them fade
balls like he wears Umber forty four because his dad
told him too, because of John Riggins, Like I couldn't
love Tyler Warren Moore like you had me at John Riggins,
you know what I mean. Okay, So it was my
first round pick. The two guys on in the second round,
(30:35):
believe it or not, DB's okay. Benjamin Morrison from Notre Dame.
I've had multiple people tell me he's the best corner
they've ever seen it. Nerdame best corner at least in
the last twenty five years. Nor Dame got hurt this
past year. Now he hasn't even worked out. He's you know,
work out like two days before the draft because of
the injury. But if you can get a guy mid
(30:56):
second round that people thought was a first pick and
is the best corner nerd name in twenty five years,
that says something to me. The other guy I liked
there would be the safety out of Texas Andrew mccooba.
I'm a huge fan of guys that a take the
ball away like he did not do it, Clem, somebody
did do a Texas. But also the safety nickel versatility,
(31:19):
think Gardner Johnson. I've seen that first hand in Philly,
the value of having a guy that has corner like Nickel,
corner like skills but can play safety. So those are
my two second round guys. In the third round, I
like two Jacks. Okay, okay. The first guy, Jack Besh,
(31:41):
the receiver. I'm calling this right now. Okay, Jack Besh,
First of all, we all know his older brother, Tiger
Princeton football player like me, passed away tragically. I'm calling
my shot right now. The La Rams, Jordan rod Rieg's
La Ram are drafting Jack Besh and he's gonna win
(32:03):
the third Annual Cooper Cup. Puka Nikoua, how did he
fall to the third round and how did Sean McVeigh
get him? I watch him and I'm like, this guy
is gonna be like Poka ni cool, like he's gonna
go to the Rams.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I don't understand why he's gonna fall that far. And
you're right that that is sort of where he's getting
pre third round and I think the more people watch him,
the takeaway from the tape is all what you said,
and that's it's typical of this draft. And that's why
I think you can credibly say that's your ideal third
round pick, because he's a believable third round pick, because
(32:38):
that's where the strength of this receiver class is that
there's so many that some of them aren't gonna get
taken in the top fifty to fifty five picks even
though it seems like they deserve it. So that might
push the first round wide receivers down because teams are
just gonna wait until round two three.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
The other Jacks are the other Jack is just Jack Sawyer.
Those guys make it in the NFL. And I know
the Sam Hubbard thing has gone a million times. He
reminds you of Sam Howard, but he does like guys
like that, He's going to find a way to be
an above average starter in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Jack Sawyer a lot of disagreement on those. There are
some people that watch Jack Sawyer statement just say that
is not an NFL player. That is like a that
is a late Day three undrafted type of pick that's
getting this.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
It's his ideal college, it's his ideal pick.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I'm just so interested on that out there.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
He was like a top five high school project.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah yeah, all right, Well two years we have to
run out here.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
We've got to let Ross go, I think. But I
want to make sure to rip through mine too. So
mine was for a team with a late career veteran
quarterback on the roster. Wow, who could that be? Picking
outside of the top ten Round one Matthew Golden from Texas.
He has been in a couple of different schemes which
I like. He also knows how to He's like the
perfect player to exploit horizontal and vertical space on the
(33:53):
field because he's used as a motion player. He often
was the Z but he can do a lot of
different things on the perimeter as well. And I know
the knock on him is his size, but I think
speed helps with size deficiencies in some ways. I think
if you are looking at potentially replacing your quarterback in
the next couple of years, which the team I'm talking
(34:15):
about is, then you want to make sure that you're
maximizing the veteran years of that quarterback while also building
a foundation for the younger player. So round two, I've
got Tyler Schuck from I think he's a really gifted.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Quote unquote younger player.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Well, so I don't care about the old thing.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
That's the thing.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
That's the thing. I wrote this out so like, and
I was thinking about this. I was getting really fired
up when I was doing my notes on this, probably
because I've spent too much time with the RAM scouting department,
because they do not care about old players or short arms.
So he throws well on the move, and I know
he could be twenty six or twenty seven by the
time he starts. I don't care he I like he's
seen a ton of football. I like that he's only started,
(34:57):
you know, eight or less games until the final year
of his college career, which is not the same type
of wear and tear on the body.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
That acordad right, because he's always hurt.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
Playing a ton of a ton of time. I think
if you can get the medicals cleared and you can,
you have a player who's not going to take the
type of abuse that we sometimes do get worried about
with with older prospects. Like, I think that that's a fit.
I like that he's seen stuff. I like that he
understands multiple schemes and multiple things, and so I think
that the right team with a two year plan, maybe
with their current starter, is going to gravitate toward him.
(35:29):
And for that reason, also if you're looking at a
long term replacement, one of my draft crushes is in
the third round Boston College offensive tackle Ozzie Trapilo. Oh.
He's a gap scheme guy and his own scheme guy.
He's a fit, he's a starter. He also is super disciplined.
No penalties in his three years as a starter. I
(35:49):
know you gotta love that. I feel like you've got
and he's on the right right tackle.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
You know what that reminds me of. That's like someone
that has a four point zero gpm, like you might
have been studying a little bit too much, Like do
you really want a four point zero gpa and college?
Do you really want to never have one penalty? Give
me one unnecessary run, like.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
If anything, not getting enough fouls and like a youth
basketball game, you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
That's why you got to get him and sit him
as a swing guy behind somebody who's already playing, and
you got to make him mean a little bit meaner.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
You gotta a little bit, a little bit, I'm feeling
mean right now because we got to end this thing.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Ross has gotta go. We gotta get out of here.
That's it for this show.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I loved having you guys in and I love the
the intensity with which happened with just having a deadline
on here.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
But they're saying, like, we gotta.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Get the important part people, Let's do it. That was
it for today's show. Just a little extra for you.
We will be back on Monday. We're going to be
talking defensive draft prospects with Ali Connelly. I think he
likes some of the same guys that Ross does, including
the Macouba. And yes, when teams are back in the
building lifting weights again, I believe that's the original football
(36:54):
is back.
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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