NFL Network's Gregg Rosenthal and Daniel Jeremiah set aside their differences to collaborate on an all-new limited podcast series: "40s and Free Agents." The show hits the ground running with Gregg and DJ debating the values of both this year's draft class and NFL free agent pool. Then, the duo discusses potential landing spots for QB Sam Darnold, and DJ debuts a take on Kirk Cousins potentially making a return to Minnesota. Later, Gregg and DJ play a team building exercise where they choose one draft move and one free agency decision in support of Drake Maye, Trevor Lawrence and Caleb Williams.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to forties and free agents. I am Greg Rosenthal.
This is Daniel Jeremiah, and this is a limited series
going through draft season, and we arm wrestled to decide
who was gonna speak first. And people don't know this
about DJ, but very short arm length.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I got to go, Wow, that's an interesting tale there.
You know, we've seen in the history of this country
enemies come together and join hands and fine common ground.
None more challenging than this relationship coming together. But that's
what happens with the NFL offseason, Greg, when you've got
free agency in the draft, it's coming together.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
It's like I'm the pro personnel side with no experience whatsoever,
and you know the college game and so no, we
thought it'd be fun to come together during this season.
I call it the regular season, the build up to
free agency and then your season draft, and we kind
of compare the two worlds and decide how these teams
are going to be built. I'm excited about this.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
No, I'm excited about this in a big way. I'm
also excited about Greg's watch.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I don't know what they are paying over NFL Bailey,
but that is impressive.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
This was a gift, Thank you, and yeah you can.
You can check us out on YouTube on NFL Network
if you're listening to this. Let's go to my top
ten free agent's list. And I got to admit the
list looked a lot better before t Higgins and Trey
Smith got the franchise that because now Milton Williams is
number one, and it kind.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Of feels like that year where Eric Fisher went number
one in the free agency.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, or when Malik Jackson was actually my number one
free agent about seven eight years ago. We got Ronnie
Stanley with the Ravens. Zach Bond is now resigned, so
Sam Darnold moves up the list. Josh Sweat with the Eagles,
Chris Godwin, Carlton Davis, a lot of good cornerbacks.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I think at the top of this group.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Tarvarius war dj Read, DeVante Adams and Amari Cooper both
coming off like shaky years there. I'm curious when you
look at that list, like, what do you want to criticize?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
First? I don't want to criticize. I want to point
something out, which is sometimes when you're stacking free agents
and you're looking at who the best available players are,
I think people get caught up in pass production versus
future value. That's what free agency is all about, and
I think age is incredibly important. Now Milton Williams, I
believe it's twenty five years old. Yeah, so when you
factor that in, plus he can rush the passer from
(02:17):
the interior, which is extremely hard to find. I think that.
I think there's probably some shock value to people like
casual NFL fans to see his name up there at
the top, but he is going to get a lot
of money. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
The only regrets I have with this list is not
pushing some more of those young guys up the list,
which we'll talk about during the show. I did kind
of think this is taking a big picture view of this.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
There's a lot of defensive players.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
There's a lot of line like three down linebackers, defensive tackles.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
What do you think about the theory that.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Those positions, specifically off ball linebacker, a defensive tackle, like
that's a great free agent position because it takes so
long for them to develop. I think Milton Williams is
a good example of Zach Bond was that, like, these
are guys that maybe weren't really ready to be difference
makers early in their career, but those are positions where
they get a lot better and they're peaking at twenty five.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, it takes patience, and I think that's why there's
that sweet spot of guys who have experience but are
still young. Not many of them, but guys that do
have experience. I go back to Patrick Queen was last
year's free agent. Yeah, so you look at the number
that he got and the impact that he had with
the Pittsburgh Steelers because he was still ascending. He was
still young, but he played a lot of football. I
(03:31):
see it doing the Charger games. I've seen linebackers come
through there. Drew Trenkill was a great example of someone
who got better as he went along. Dayon Henley last
year year two, you saw the spike take place. So
I think if you're a team that has a whole
at off the ball linebacker and you are trying to
win and be competitive right now, I think there's there's
reason to go on the bet.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Right That's that's the position I mentioned because that's where
there's a lot of younger starters. Nick Bolton, Ernest Jones,
Drey Greenlaw's.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
And Ernest Jones stay somewhere he's been a good player
in three different places at a young age, Like it's
time for him to settle in.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
He's out there negotiating on Twitter with the Seahawks, like
responding to negative tweets about him that that's always he
had an injury.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Which is that's not a great sign.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Let's talk about who has the most cap space in
this entire market, and do you believe there is such
a thing as too much cap space? The Patriots have
one hundred and twenty seven million dollars, which to me
is a failure, Like that's why they spent enough.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
You don't have enough of your own players that command money,
which means you're not very good, which is why they're
picking where they're picking in the draft.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
The Raiders have ninety five, the Chargers of ninety, the
Cardinals have seventy eight, Commander sixty four.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And my issue is there's too much cap space.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Though, but different reasons. So if you go through those teams,
like let's take the Chargers and the Commanders, the Chargers
took their medicine last year, so you know, think about
all the dead money that they had. Keenan is gone,
Eckler's gone, Mike Williams is gone, so they kind of
ate that last year. So now they're freed up with
some money. See some a good bit of free agents
of their own that Khalil Mack I would imagine they'll
(05:05):
try and get back in the fold. Poona Ford who
played well. So some of those internal players I think
eat up some of that money. And then Washington that
is the picture of what it looks like when you
hit on a top quarterback. You can have your cake
and eat it too. I mean, they have all that space,
and they have the most important position secured, and they're
paying mexti amount.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
And yet they signed so many one year veteran free
agents last year that when you look at their roster,
they've got about ten starting jobs to fill. So Adam
Peters is gonna earn his money this offseason. But when
you look like more than half the league now has
more than forty million dollars, like the money that's come
in with this TV money, and there's it's much harder
(05:43):
to find great players than it is to spend your
cash space unless you're the Saints.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yea, they actually are a.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Great push it out and just push it out another future.
The interesting thing is I've talked to a bunch of
gms over the last you know, through the combine, over
the last couple of weeks, and all of them when
I go, are you going to be aggressive or free agency?
You guys got a lot of money. Yeah, we're gonna
wait for that second wave. Yeah. And they all say this,
and then free agency starts and we're all gonna be like,
oh my gosh, looking how much money this guy just got.
(06:09):
But they all have the intention of being patient.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
You.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
We mentioned the Chargers, so let's mention it here. Joey
Bosa released late Wednesday night.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Not a shock.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
They open up twenty five million dollars in cap space,
which you rarely see anymore. Like a cut, like helping
you that much, But they kind of set this up
a year ago knowing it might be a possibility.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Not a shock.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I put him at number fifty six in my top
one to one. I really struggled with what to do,
because sure, he has a higher ceiling than almost any
pass rusher out there, like if you got peaked Joey Bosa,
that's better than Josh Swat obviously, but he hasn't been
healthy for three years. If you add up the snap
total over the last three years, it adds up to
about a thousand snaps and most of that's last year,
(06:50):
which I don't need to tell you. He was out
there not one hundred percent, almost trying to prove he
could play hurt, but he wasn't the same Joey Bosa
for most of the year.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
There were just little flashes like early in the year.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, I think he's an example. And we'll see some
others in this list. In your list here of you're
going to see incentive lating contracts. So you're going to
get asked, because you put a list together, what's this
player going to get? And the answer should be, well,
it's going to be dependent on how he plays, because
there's going to be a base number for someone like
Joey Bosa, and it's going to be heavily incentivized. If
(07:20):
he does stay healthy, he can get his what his
worth is.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And I wouldn't be surprised if you know he combines
with his brother up in San Francisco, they're looking for
some edge.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
That would be fun.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Let's talk about the strength of the draft. Yeah, I
mean you take it over top your top fifty prospects
is out as of Thursday.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, it's fresh off a little update here from the combine,
and always some changes here once you get official measurements
on these guys too. But it's a unique draft in
that we don't have a quarterback until you get to
cam Ward. There's my tenth overall player. You have a
running back and two tight ends and the top six players.
Don't know that there's ever been a year quite like that.
But if we were to go beyond what you see
(08:00):
on the screen right here with these top ten players,
and you look at the entire top fifty man greg
it is defensive line heavy. It is loaded with both
DT's and edge rushers. You want a running back, there's
premier running backs in this draft. There's depth in this class.
Tight end you see those, there's top two guys up there.
There's tons of depth there. It's kind of a weird,
(08:22):
you know, draft in that regard because we've had receivers.
There's depth, but not the high end stars that we've
had in the past few years. Quarterbacks. Last year we
have those six guys go, it's nothing like that. So
it's gonna be fascinating to see how this marys up
with your list and my list, looking at free agency,
looking at the draft, and seeing how the draft is
(08:42):
going to inform what happens.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Well, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Let's like kind of look at I had the top
fifty list. You have your top fifty.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I had Top one to one. I mean, I'm working
more than double as hard as.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
I have a top one fifty that comes out before
my event. But i mean, hey, that's only forty nine.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
We're going to be doing this show every week, so
I'm looking forward to picking your list apart a little bit,
like and Mason Mason Graham's the top five guy can.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Even stay on the field on rundowns, Like, stay tuned
for more of that. But when we look at the different.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
On rundowns, is that what you saying?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, you think you think he's like a.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
He's an unbelievable wrestler's never on the ground, plays with
leverage and powers. Never are we going to have this
conversation already? Are we doing this now? No?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I just that was my first draft, Hot Bake, looking
at the different positions, you have five running backs.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
In your time watching the Alabama game in the playoffs
last year.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I thought there were some games where like good teams
actually made their plan around attacking Mason Graham a little.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Bit like Ohio State, the best team in the country,
that tried to attack them.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
How that go? I mean, I am feeling the heat
from having like a Michigan grad.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
We did well, Executive, How long did we get along?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Was that too long?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Said? Ten minutes. That's probably the over. I would have
taken the under on that, but that's okay.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So we talked strengths of this class. You say, obviously
the defensive line.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I would agree that that's also a strength of Look
at those agent class defensive line. You have fourteen in
your top fifty. I have twelve in my top fifty. Yeah,
that's crazy, and what does that do?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That's where I go back to, like I think Milton
Williams maybe the exception because of the age, and he's
healthy and he can you know, he can rush from inside.
So maybe he's thinking he's gonna get twenty. Maybe that
number is more like fifteen sixteen, you know, somewhere in
there he's gonna he's gonna do well. But some of
these other guys, like I think you're going to see
teams put the number and say here's the number. If
you you know you want to do a deal, we'll
(10:28):
do a deal. But we're not going to negotiate. We're
not going to move off that number because of the
sheer number of guys we got.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
There are guys in this class like at a free
agency Azizo Jalari, I think would be like an interesting pick,
solid player like Trashaun Wharton. I feel like I ranked
too low. Do you ever do you question your list?
They don't let me do a two point zero. I
would move him up twenty spots or so. I had
him too low. But guys like that maybe get left behind,
whereas other positions, offensive line have such a premium. Are
(10:56):
we at the point that offensive linemen in the draft
is almost like quarterbacks in the draft, And I do
it on my free agency list where I artificially have
to put them higher just because there aren't any, and
there aren't any in either space. It feels like this
year at least.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
When I was in Baltimore, we had a legendary scout,
Ron Marsonac, who scouted for forty fifty years you know,
since passed away, but we called him coach Ron, and
coach Ron one of the first things he told me
in one of my first years in the league was
when you're grading players, when you're grading offensive linemen in corners,
whatever you watch the tape and whatever you think he is,
you need to bump him up a level because if
you don't, you're never going to get him. If you're
(11:35):
waiting for the value at tackle or corner to match,
you know your great and where they are, and you're
never going to get them. They get pushed up. So
you have to do the same thing in terms of
what you're paying these guys. And in this year, in
particular the tackle group, there's not a lot of starting
NFL tackles and they all go really early. So a
team like the Kansas City Chiefs, people are wondering why
(11:55):
the heck did they move off of Joe Toney. Well, they,
as you saw in the Super Bowl, have a glaring
at left tackle and you have the center, right guard,
right tackle taken care of. We need a left guard
and a left tackle. Now, maybe Ronnie Stanley, you could argue,
makes a ton of sense for them. Go get a
former Raven like they did with Orlando Brown. That worked
out when they had a tackle. Need you go sign
(12:16):
Ronnie Stanley now? That's the Joe Toney money that's going
to Stanley. And now that left guard is a lot
easier to find a left guard at the bottom of
the first round or the second round or the third round.
You're not finding a starting tackle at that point in time. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I have actually a bunch of interior offensive linemen in
my top fifty, just because again there's not many people
out there. Tvin Jenkins has played a lot. Mkay Beckton
has moved up there after some cuts like Kevin Zelk
Banks can play a year for you, Aaron Banks. You
mentioned Will Fries is a Now not a lot of
sexy names here. I don't have a single tight end
(12:49):
that This is a fun class of running backs and
tight ends. You have five running backs in your top fifty,
you have four tight ends. I have a total of
two running backs in no tight ends in my top THI.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Let me give you two guys I didn't see where
you had them on your list here. Do not have
it in front of me. Maybe you can pull it up,
but I'd be curious on like JK. Dobbin so I
saw last year, Yeah, he's not And like Naji Harris, right,
those guys are productive players, good players, not on the
high end, but because of the depth of the running
backs in the draft, I wonder if one of those guys,
like a player of that ILK is, you could get
(13:24):
like a real value on Yes, guys, but.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Would you rather have.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Nase Harris for they're throwing out that he might get
eight ten million dollars a year.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
I'll maybe believe that.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I would guess I would without you saying, I would
have said he was going to get six to eight mins.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Okay, I think Jacob Dobbins would get less. Probably Aaron
Jones is also out there.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I always but again, if you want to bake that in,
like what if you baked in with those two guys
five five million with the incentives you go rush for
fourteen hundred and fifeen hundred yards, We'll get you up
to the eight nine million that you're hunting.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Would you rather have those guys or I guess second
round running back. Wouldn't you rather have the second round
running back?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well? Yeah, but it also just frees you up. You know,
I think the second round running back in terms of
the youth, the a little bit more explosive option, and
you can, you know, you can really cook there. But
the other thing is, man, if we have some of
these other needs, you know, we want to go get
a receiver, we have a corner need, Well let's go.
We can plug and play with this back at a
reasonable price, and then we can free ourselves up to
(14:25):
go with another position there in the second round. I mean,
these are the conversations that are taking place by the
way inside.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
The room, right because like, if you don't, if you're
in Kansas City for instance, and where they're drafting, you
can't expect to have a good left tackle.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You're not getting one. That's why to me, they have
to overpay. And that's why I don't know, because we're
talking about free agency in the draft. We're not talking trades.
But they've done that, they've gone that route before. I
just don't know. You're going to find many people willing
to part with a starting caliber left tackle. So all
roads lead to Ronnie Stanley is what I'm getting.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Mmmm yeah. Next on the list that left tackle is
Cam Robinson or.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
A little bit throughout his whole career has been up
at that.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
A little up and down. Dan Moore.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Guys, maybe Tyron Smith comes back, Like no, probably not
not something you want to go into the season with
defensive lineman who I'm curious who are some of your
favorites I'm going to talk about, Like when you look
at the free agency class, usually guys don't get to
free agency unless teams are okay losing them, which is
a little bit of a red flag. Like o Jalari
(15:25):
I mentioned, more of a situational guy, never was consistent,
like a three down type of guy. Tshaun Wharton maybe
just they couldn't pay him. He's next to Chris Jones,
he was with the Chiefs own Wuzaique for the Lions
is a good young player, but it took a while
for him.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Mcnis paid.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
They have to pay Hutchinson right. Then you have guys
coming off of injury.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I would be really into Malcolm Koons who missed all
of twenty twenty four but played really well in twenty
twenty three. Javon Hargrave is a guy who is once
a top my free agent list now coming off of
an injury. To Marcus Lawrence, Like, how in rooms are
you managing like taking one of those guys versus the draft,
like and the strength of it all.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So defensive tackles I've had this conversation with multiple people
similar to what I've said earlier, which is we like you,
you'll help us. Here's the number, and it's like there's
no negotiation, like we'll take you at this number, but
there's no reason for us to negotiate with you and
go beyond where we're comfortable because of I've got I've
got in my top fifty, number four, twenty five, twenty seven,
(16:27):
thirty two, forty three, forty nine, six defensive tackles in
my top fifty, and beyond those guys, I have another
ten plus that I feel I can come in and
at least be rotational starters for me.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
But what if I threw the theory out there that
this is not a great draft class, and you guys
who are all in the draft industrial complex is staring
at these guys. You know someone's got to go number thirty,
number forty, number fifty. You've almost convinced yourself into that
this is a good defensive line class, whereas the whole
class is a little blackluster and maybe last year they'd
(17:02):
all be around later.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, I would say, defensive tackle wise, I'm looking at
the guys right now and it is not There's no
two hundred and eighty pound guys, and I'm dreaming and
wishing and hoping are going to add twenty pounds. There's
no three hundred. We're talking about three hundred and forty
guys at three hundred forty pound guys need to lose weight.
I'm not talking about guys who came up. I'm talking
about guys who were all six three six four, three
(17:24):
h five to three point fifteen that ran sub five
flat or just over five flat forties like these guys
are athletic, big a dude. And we saw it at
the Senior Bowl. It was representative there. We saw it
with how they worked out. I don't think there's anything
fluky or made up about this defensive tackle class.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I'm gonna just keep taking shots at this draft.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
No, but that's what that's what's good. This is a
healthy discourse. I it does have a nice watch. It's
hard to get mad at somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I didn't even know that was showing, but that was
that is new.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I couldn't see for a couple seconds.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
It was it was a gift.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
It was a gift. It was a gift out you're running.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
We cannot afford that.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I don't know what's going on around.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Let's take a break.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
We're gonna come back and we're gonna talk quarterbacks afterwards,
try to figure out because look, this is this is
the last show before free agency really gets going. By
the time we tape again, a lot of these quarterback
situations will be taken care of, will be placed.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
We'll try to figure out how that all works after
the break.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
All right, we are back on forties and free agents,
and we are gonna talk quarterbacks. This is this is
my time of year. Like in a week or two,
we're gonna be past free agency. It'll be draft, and
DJ's just gonna try to dominate this show the quarterbacks
this year. It's an interesting free agency class. It's it's deep,
Sam Darnold. I have at fourth overall, justin Field nineteenth,
(18:50):
Jamis Winston, Russell Wilson, Jacoby Brissett in the fifties and sixties,
Jimmy Garoppolo, Daniel Jones rounding out in terms of the
top one hundred, and there's like decent backups of available
after that. I just didn't want to make every backup
quarterback make it Mike Guy, Mac Jones, I mean, everyone
forgot about him. He's a free agent. Joe Flacco is
a free agent, Gardner Minshew is a free agent, and
(19:11):
it's kind of figuring out at this time of year. DJ,
how do you compare these guys to the draft prospects
compared to the potential trade candidates? If there's any out there,
Aaron Rodgers will eventually be on this list because I
don't think they're going to be able to trade it
that I'm going to start there. Actually, where would you
put Aaron Rodgers among this entire group?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It is such a short term move. I would in
terms of Aaron Rodgers on this list, I would put
him probably a third. I would put him behind Fields.
I'm looking at your list right now. To me, if
I look at it from a draft standpoint, who signs
as a free agent that would preclude you from taking
a quarterback high in the draft, And I only see two.
(19:53):
I think whoever signed Sam Darnold, if he were to
leave Minnesota he goes and sign somewhere, I think that
team is out on taking a quarterback in the first round.
I think whoever signs Justin Fields, I think it's likely
that they wait on a on a you know, let's
evaluate him for a year and maybe our quarterback it's
not him, is coming in the future. But outside of
those top two guys, you know, Winston Russell Wilson, Jacoby Brissett, Garoppolo,
(20:17):
Daniel Jones, there's those guys are not going to stop you.
If the quarterback you like is there to take him.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I'd go further.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I would say none of these quarterbacks would you're you're
changing your draft plan for Sam Donald like I am.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I don't think you're going to spend the money that
it's going to cost on Sam Donald. If you're if
you're a team picking up there in the top of
the draft and you plan on.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Taking a call, what if he doesn't cost that much money.
I think as we get closer to free agency, there
is a greater a greater chance that he ends up
staying with Minnesota because ultimately the market isn't that into him.
The Raiders we've heard maybe not that in I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I don't think he's going to the Raiders.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I actually could see the Titans being interested in him.
But if you're the Titans, for instance, and you're going
after Sam Donald, have you already made the decision that
you're not drafting cam Ward in general, have they made
the decision? Do you think of what they're going to
do at quarterback? And I have Sean Payton's voice in
my head from the scouting combine where I believe him.
(21:15):
He said, at this point in the process last year,
they didn't know they were going to take Nixie.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
They also were holding the first overall pick. Your homework
starts a little earlier when you're holding the first overall
pick than it does when you're sitting there and seeing
who's going to fault you and who do you like
At that point in time, I would say, I don't
think he goes to Tennessee. I think Sam Donald. If
I was going to guess, I would say, if it's
a like a one term deal, a one year deal, yeah,
(21:39):
I would say, why would you leave Minnesota if you're
not going to go outside of Minnesota to chase a
one year deal because you already know what you have
there in Minnesota. It's basically a prove it situation. If
he gets beyond one year, I could make a case
to the place like Pittsburgh. You know, Pittsburgh seems to
me like it is Sam Donald justin field, justin field,
Sam Donald one of those guys would be their quarterback.
(22:00):
That's why a team like that, they're in no man's
land in the draft to get one of these guys.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Anyways, Yeah, and that's why I don't think it would change.
I think Fields ends up with the Jets or with
the Steelers. I think the Steelers want to keep him,
so that would make a lot of sense to me.
I think Donald ends up staying. And you asked before,
I'll answer it now how much it would cost. I
think you maybe can get Sam Donald for forty five
(22:24):
million dollars on.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Two years on two years on two years.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Especially in twenty two and a half, but most.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Of it's guaranteed, like ten of it's guaranteed into the
second year, where you have an option to cut him.
Maybe it's fit. I just don't think with everything that
gms are looking at for this quarterback class, and then
there's decent backups out there. Those last two games I
think lost him a lot of money because you saw.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Him play in the biggest of spots any froze and
it reminded everyone why he was available two straight off
seasons for almost no money, and so now you're giving
him a raise. But you're not giving that big away.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
So here's my pushback on that. And I'm I'm outed
and known as a Sam Darnold fan. I was when
he came leader of the d I mean bounced around
and hasn't worked this. This is why I would push
back on that. I think the Detroit game, yeah, Sam
did not play well. I'm not going to run from
that or hide from that. Like he did not play
well on the road in that wouldn't let go of
(23:20):
the BA the playoff game. Their offensive line got destroyed
in that game, and I would argue that if you're
going to make that case, then how do you explain
what happened in the Super Bowl and how do you
not acknowledge the impact of getting destroyed upfront and what
that has on the play of the quarterback. And I
also have fourteen games sample size, that's not a small
sample of him playing it at a very very high level.
(23:42):
When he was protected. He didn't get protected. He got
his butt kicked. I don't run from that one terrible game.
I don't put the playoff game on Sam. Okay, So
if we're going to talk numbers.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I would more than you.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
So my take is, I think if it's a one
year deal against state in Minnesota. If you can go
get a two year deal, whether that's Pittsburgh, whether that's
you know, wherever else is out there at that point time.
I don't know if he wants to go running back
to the New York market. I don't know that i'd
be in a hurry to do that with the Giants
instead of the Jets. But that would be, you know,
at least a conversation. My guess is he gets two years,
(24:15):
I'll say it's like thirty million in the first year, okay,
And I'll say there's five little something for the second
year guaranteed. Whether that's five million, maybe maybe as much
as ten. But I would say just a little something.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Oh, we're parking our car and then in the same grass.
That's basically that's the same. You just raised it a
little bit. What about the guy's not on this list?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
So kirk Cousins, I saw a report that he wants
to wait until after the draft because he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Want to see what seats get filled. He got look
what happened in the draft last year, right, but he
doesn't have the cards, right?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Can kirk Cousins dictate?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Maybe there isn't a market for him until day three
of the draft anyways, which would make more sense to me,
and I guess they would want to do right by
Kirk Cousins in Cleveland could make some sense. Who gets
left out between the draft and free agency. There's too
many spots that are wide open and so but.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
He's a free look.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Yes, if he gets released, he won't cost much money.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
It's going to be Russell Wilson from last year. Yes,
you're gonna pay him a million bucks because the Falcons
are cut in the check, which makes him way more
desirable for a place like Cleveland, who has, you know,
not a lot of money to spend because of how
much they have sunk and Watson, and he has familiarity there.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I actually could convince myself more into Kirk Cousins than
some of these other guys because I was I thought
it was remarkable how productive and how well he played
in games where he literally couldn't move.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
He like they figured it out for about half the
season there.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
And now you make the case he's a year more
removed from Achilles surgery and maybe he's a little bit.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Let me ask you this question. Nobody's talked about this,
but I think it's a fascinating conversation. If let's say
Sam Donald leaves, Sam Donald goes to the Steelers, right,
so he's gone. If you're Minnesota, and here's here's the options, right,
you have JJ you're hoping and you're hoping he's going
to be the but you need a veteran there. You
have Daniel Jones who's been on your team last year.
(26:05):
You have Kirk Cousins is available to come back, as
you know, buying you a little more time with Jajon
mur Would you rather have Daniel Jones with what he's
going to cost, which I would have to believe is
a lot more than what Kirk Cousins Because of the
Falcons and the way that contract was situated, you could
get Kirk Cousins back in Minnesota for next to nothing.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Would you rather have? That's so spicy that I can't
believe no one else says I've never heard anybody bring
this up.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Nate actually said very nice things about each other in
the press. They handled that pretty well.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Can I challenge our group here?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
This will be postpers We can't stump the tape and
this is like maybe in post by the podcast, the.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Time this airs, we could drop this little thing in
here because when they played after the game was over,
Justin Jefferson and Kirk Cousins had a moment was caught
on camera, and there is a lot of love between
those guys. Okay, So I'm just I don't know if
I'm looking at Daniel Jones and what that market is.
I don't know if that's the minshewe market, what is
that fifteen million bucks since you got or it's Kirk
(27:06):
Cousin saying I'll come back and literally pay me the minimum.
Is not making all this money from the found I.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Think Daniel Jones could be the guy who, in theory
is competing with Anthony Richardson. I think Justin Field's could
be that guy, but they're not gonna let him. You
said something very interesting in public which got on my
radar this week, which is you thought you wouldn't be
totally surprised if Gino Smith got traded.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, I just to me, DK's gone, right. We think
we think, well, yeah, he's requested a trade. It could
be done by the time you're listening to this. I
would imagine that's going to happen in short order. Okay,
So DK's gone. It just feels like it. Gino's what
thirty four, maybe mid thirties, Like there's there's moments in
an organization where you have a coach in his second
(27:52):
year where it just kind of feels like this could
be a reset for Seattle. You know, this is an
opportunity to reset. Now the challenges. Who's you know, who's
your quarter playing at that point.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Right, they actually would be the team. Then I would
extend for Sam Donald maybe and would convince.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
That they could get into that. That's why this would
have to happen pretty quick, but they.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Could get in on That hurts my feelings.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
But how would you do though, if, as the president
of the Geno fan club and the president of the
Sam Donald haters club, if somehow Gino was out and Sam.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Was in, well, I would just I would just root
against Sam Darnald next year, root for his demise like
I've been. It is very annoying that the Sam Donald
hive contains some of my favorite analysts in the in
the country, Nate Tice, Mena Chimes. Unfortunately, you're part of
it too, so I don't get what they're what they're
(28:46):
seeing that you don't wear because Gino Smith would be
a top this list for me. To me, he has
played more consistently, see more consistently.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
At a higher level, higher level playing.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I think he's more I think he's more of a
complete quarterback than any of these guys.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And this to Cousins too. And again, this is why
I love this conversation, because we need to see where
it takes us and then go there. But I think
there is a little bit of a market correction in
terms of older quarterbacks. Where you had Tom Brady, well,
you had Aaron Rodgers first of all, playing MVP level,
you know, going up to the age of forty, like
getting you know, towards forty. You had Tom Brady winning
a super Bowl after forty, and there was this kind
(29:21):
of belief of like, you know, these quarterbacks, they they're
all going to be great into their late thirties, right,
and then all of a sudden, we saw Russell Wilson
fall off a cliff, Matt Ryan, we saw Matt Ryan
fall off a cliff. We saw Ben you know when
his thing happened, you know, he had kind of fallen.
You go back a little ways. The normal thing is
most of these guys when you get in the mid thirties,
it starts to really tail off those guys Aaron Rodgers,
(29:42):
Tom Brady.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Those were the exceptions, right, and even Aaron Rodgers. People
are still betting on that. Now. If Aaron Rodgers plays
for a team this year and plays well, he will
be the most productive forty one year old quarterback of
all time behind Tom Brady, which is why I think
he fits in New York with the Giant.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I don't know where.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
It's a desperation move.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I don't know who the Giants are going to have
a quarterback. And I've had this conversation with a bunch
of different people and everybody says the same thing. It
feels like Aaron Rodgers or bust.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
But if they have Aaron Rodgers, do they move up
or potentially take cam Ward at three?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Which I think I think if cam Ward were there,
they would take cam Ward.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I the longer we go in the process, and this
is a good time to transition. Let's look at the
quarterbacks in your top fifty.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Tell me if I'm wrong. The longer this goes on,
you have cam.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Ward as your tenth overall prospect, Shade or Sanders at eighteen,
So actually not that huge of a gap from our
guy Jeremiah forty for Jackson Dart. The longer it goes on,
the more I just think cam Ward's going to be
the number one overall draft pick, not because.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Whether it's there, whether it's Tennessee right, the Giants, you know, coming.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Because people are making it out to be.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Okay, if you put him in last year's draft, where
is he wouldn't he be right there with Pennix and
McCarthy at the least, and those guys went in the
top ten.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
And so if you're telling me he's a top ten
talented quarterback and everyone needs quarterbacks in this class, that.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
He's gonna go. I mean, there's no question he's going
to be one of the first three picks in the draft.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Okay, but we take that to the bank.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
What about one? I think that's I think there's a
good chance of that, whether or not that's Tennessee deciding
to do it or whether that's somebody wanting to pay
the price to go up.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
All it takes is one.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
So if the Giants, yeah, if they don't get Rogers,
or even if they did get Rogers, do you think
Rogers and cam like do you would you trust. That's
why I don't want to sign Rogers at all. It's
just too much of a headache him and the guy
that you're You're you're trusting the future, you're franchise.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Maybe mixes you out.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Well, maybe we get some spice then maybe you know
we're as we're recording this, we're a few days away
from free agency, right, there's enough of a window there.
If I'm the Giants, I don't want to get caught
with nothing. That literally is a game of musical chairs.
And if you think you can make the move to
go to number one to secure that you get cam Ward,
(31:55):
then okay, we do that. We don't worry about Aaron Rodgers.
Let's let's just roll with who we're going to get
with the first overall pick.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Ma if the move in March, you don't have to wait.
And I mean what I'm saying is if.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
You get the free agency and you're still sitting at
pick number three, yeah, and you're just saying, you know,
we'll just wait till the draft, well then you better
like more than one quarterback.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
If that's the case, So should Sanders might slip in
this draft? He might not wait. I just said all
the teams that need quarterbacks. And that's why I think, can.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I cut you off there by the way, because this
is a popular it's a popular TV segment, it's a
popular conversation. How you know how far will he slide?
And the whole league, you know, doesn't like Shodo or Standers.
And I'm like, do you realize, right, it only takes
one team.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Sure you can go.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
You might have all the sources in the world. I
don't care who you are. The most connected people in
this business. Do not have rock solid going to tell
you the true sources in all thirty two buildings. So
these people that are saying, well, he's going to do
this or he's going to do that, I'm like, there's
no way for anybody to know this. And I think
this is a fit draft more than any other that
I can ever remember. I think shud Or Standers is
a really good fit for a team like the Raiders.
(32:57):
I think he makes sense as a fit for a
team like the Saints. So all it takes is one
of those teams.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
So don't buy in.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
And it's not just a shootour Sanders conversation. It's a
player in general. When you hear everybody's punting on this
guy and everybody's out on him, like no, it takes
one team.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Well, this class I think is going to have more
disagreement up and down the board than any because it feels.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Like there's only two or three players that everyone agrees on.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
But to the quarterback point, yeah, just logically, Tennessee, Cleveland Giants, Raiders, Jets.
I'll throw the Saints in there. That's just in the
top nine picks. They all need quarterbacks, and I tend
to agree with you. I tend to think that the
Saints would maybe be the floor. I don't know if
they're crazy enough, although Mickey Loomis has been known to
(33:44):
make some crazy trades to trade out for Shadeur Sanders,
but if he fell.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
To nine, Can I give you the sneaky quarterback team though, please,
because we were just talking about with Seattle. Okay, I
don't know who their guy would be. I don't know which,
you know, if that's maybe that's more they wanted take
a flyer on somebody in the second on the second day.
You know, maybe that's Jackson Dart, maybe that's you know,
Tyler Shuck, one of those type of guys that you
could get maybe maybe you trade back a little bit,
(34:09):
take one bottom of the first maybe you take one
in the second round. But I was kind of just
going through all these teams, and just because the conversation
we had about Geno getting a little bit older and
not knowing if they could pivot. Then all of a sudden,
you get another team that's in the in the quarterback
mix a little bit.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
So Seattle.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, picking at eighteen, they would theoretically have more draft
capital because they've traded away Dk Metcalf.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
You could use that to make a move. I mean
I didn't. I didn't mention it before. Though.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
There is one screaming logical team for Gino Smith, and
it's his old buddy Pete Carrol.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Like those two guys, that solves their problem.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Two guys are always I like that. I would accept
that that move for Gino Smith. I think that could
work out. You know, they spend a lot of money
in free agency. Like we mentioned, all the money that
is out there. We're going to see over the next week,
but it will be interesting to see how teams spend
at quarterback.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
I think the markets changed a little bit.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I think the Daniel Jones contract was part of it,
and then the Baker Mayfield contract, the first one he
took with Tampa being so effective.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
As part of it is like, you.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Don't have to pay Daniel Jones level quarterbacks, and I
would consider Darnold or fields like around that or a
little lower. You don't have to pay them eighty five
percent of Joe Burrow. It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
It's really half what it is. I think thirty million
is kind of that. That's going to be that veteran mark.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Our salary cap is just costing these top tier quarterbacks
so much money because you can't tell me that Patrick
Mahomes is the same essentially as like the.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Eighth quarterback in the league who gets that games.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
There's fun games to play though, when you cross different
positions and value and look at the numbers and then
try and wrap your mind right it. Last year, my
favorite was I got a lot of texts they were
saying that the Eagles just get Saquon Barkley for Gabe
Davis Prices, right.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
I was like, yeah, Dorrits Armstrong got more money than
Saquon Barkley last year, which is why I was good
they gave him to Speaking of weird dollars, you know,
to two at Well sign. I just want to throw
this out because I liked ten million. We're a new
news show too, to to at Well got ten million.
I have a feeling there were people around the league
that were.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Like, what are you doing to us?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I had a decision maker that shot me at I
actually I was ahead of it. I sent him that
contract and then he was not. He was like, yeah,
that didn't help. I think they had somebody else in
mind for a price, someone in that neighborhood. And I
just said, yeah, that's this is where the market is.
You're not getting dead player for that price.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
He has about a thousand yards through four years. I
feel like Sean mcvayson justifying that draft pick.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I like to to hour it was a nice development
story that he improved to a solid fourth receiver, which
he can be for them, and I guess they're gonna
he's more of a third receiver for them if but
he's getting double the money of DeMarcus Robinson a year ago.
DeMarcus Robinson was a better player. That tells me Sean
mcvay's got all the juice in the building.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
I want to this is this is real time here.
What year was he was too to out? Well twenty two? Yeah,
four years ago, so twenty two. So I'm just going
to see where I had him because I was curious
on this because I like going through to two at well.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
It was a late second round pick in the end,
but a shocking ye one, very about ten more pounds.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
You sure it was twenty two.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
He's played four years in the league, so it would
be twenty one. Y, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Twenty that's a wrong year. I'm looking in the wrong file.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Can I give you a theory while you're looking?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
It reminds me a lot of the Tavon Austin scene
with Jeff Fisher in Hard Knocks, which I think it
was the off season Hard Knocks, which probably only I
watched All or Nothing, where it was a it was
a great moment Tevon Austin, this guy everyone called the
bus a developmental story, improved to like a pretty decent player,
and they just loved him as a person, and so
they gave him that contract. Everyone felt so good in
(37:45):
the organization in the moment. It was almost worth it
just for that moment. Ended up not being a very
good contract at all. It reminds me of a light
version of that. Everyone probably loves two to at Well.
It's a great moment, but it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Okay to two at Well was my seventy ninth player.
So you said he like in the fift the fifties,
so he was just under five to nine, one hundred
and fifty five pounds, ran a four to three five
at his pro day, I talked about jet sweeps. He's dynamic,
he can separate, he's got a second year ball in
the air, he's got some route polish. She was a
high school quarterback, throw the ball seventy yards on his knees,
(38:18):
just through that there for seven years. But I said
he was a miniature t Y Hilton. That's too like
if you're hoping that he was going to what he
was going to be like, that's but he hasn't been.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
He's turned into a pretty good role player.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Rams fans in the front office will defend him as
he he stretches the field and that opens it up
and he's improved. Like so he's basically a good number
four getting like good number three money.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
I guess, can I give you a fun podcast topic?
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (38:41):
What if you just did a tournament like it was
like it was a fighting tournament between but the lightweight division.
So you have like Calvin Austin versus two two at
Well in round one squaring off. Who would you rather have? Well,
I'm just saying that's just that.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Would be fun to watch. I thought you were going
to throw me in the mix, generate. I'm like a
little that weight class. I got a little more muscle.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
It's not an idea worthy of the watch that you're wearing,
but it is definitely something I'm a spirer.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Okay, more to come on forties in free agents. Back
in a minute. We are back on forties and free agents.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
So we are going to wrap up the show with
an exercise that I'm excited about. We're going to talk
about building around some of these young quarterbacks in the league.
And all three of them are in the top ten
of the draft in terms of their team is picking
in the top ten of the draft.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
The Patriots are at number four.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
They're there with Drake May Trevor Lawrence, who frankly were
being a little generous calling him a young quarterback at
this point, like he's two years into his second contract,
and this is what I was talking about everyone gets
like Patrick Mahomes money. Trevor Lawrence is making the same
money as like Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes. This doesn't
really help your team building. And Kayleb Williams is the
(40:01):
pick of the draft in terms of the Bears. And
we're gonna go through and I'm gonna suggest some team
building I want to see in free agency.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
I'm the free agency you can grade my free agent.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
General manager jobs, and then when we get to the
draft portion, we'll see how I did, and you'll choose
what you want to do building around these guys in
the draft.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
So Drake May, let's start there, number four overall pick.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
The number one thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna
trade for DK metcalf yep.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
And I'm gonna tell you what you're gonna trade. You're
gonna trade the thirty eighth pick.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Okay, I think that could get it done.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
I think that would get it.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Supposedly, he wants he wants to play for a contender,
and he.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I don't know if DK is gonna love that, but
that's you know, if I'm on the Patriots, Yeah, thirty
eighth pick, make that move.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
They've got Mike Rabel, They've got a lot of targets
available because they've got three or four guys who probably
profile well as a number three receiver, but not even
the number two.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
At this point. You've got a quarterback who loves to
throw a deep throw it to the outside. It's a
nice fit. Okay, that's number one. Number two.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
I'm going to sign and maybe overpay Cam Robinson or
Morgan Moses if Cam Robinson just gets too crazy.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
And these guys aren't going to change my life. But
it's what they didn't do a year ago.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, they had a terrible plan where they had no
backup plan. They had no even starting plan. And to me,
this is more of a backup plan you want to develop.
It would not stop you from draft taking alignment. I'll
get there, right, you would. It would not stop you
from drafting a tackle. But at least it's just Okay,
there's one tackle spot they need. They need two tackle
spots filled.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Man. I saw them with the Chargers last year up
close and personal. That is rough, rough supporting group that
he's got there, especially at the tackle position. So I
like that.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Anybody else you want to lob in there, I mean,
I I Ronnie Stanley, they would they would have liked
to get, but I feel like that's going to probably
go too much. And then I'm looking on the defensive
side of the ball too, So it's not just building
around Drake may. I think Nick Bolton would make sense
for them as like a three down linebacker. You want
to be building with younger players, and they need edge players.
I'm going Mountain Kunts as well, So it's not build
(42:02):
up the defense as part of as part of helping
Drake me out. When you look at the wide receiver
position in free agency, I don't know. I guess you
could sign one, but they all just profile as other
guy like they've gone this route before, taking the lower tier,
like Josh Palmer type, like they don't need another one
of them.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
I don't think. I don't think DeVante Adams, you know,
is in a hurry to go to New England. The
one game, the one name that I think would be
kind of interesting for them from a receiver standpoint. I
know wasn't great last year in terms of the production,
but Keenan Allen just is kind of a veteran who
can still get open on some third downs. I think Okay,
at a relative you cost, that wouldn't make some sense
to me.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Barris Fans got on him early in the year. I
tell you, if you watch the end of that season,
Caleb trusted Keenan Allen. That's what we kind of played
himself into either shape or figuring out that offense. And
by the end of the year it was like, Okay,
I agree with you, he can he can make some sense.
Let's go to Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Well, hold on, I get to my draft with these guys. Okay, yeah,
we're gonna take We're gonna take the second round pick's gone,
so we've already acquired the k Metcalf so that's taken
care of. But now you've got between now and the
draft to decide if you want armand Membo, if you
want Will Campbell. So we're we're committed to taking an
offensive line with that.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Are they you? Are they a difference maker enough?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
There's such an upgrade and you're not gonna have to
worry about him. So you know, you've got a starter
plug in place for eight to ten years. Like they
can't trot out there what they had last year and
you have to We just talked about it at the
top of the show. If you want an offensive tackle,
you got to pay the premium. It might be a
little bit earlier than you want to. You're gonna if
you want one in free agency, you're gonna cost more
than you want to. But they can't run out there.
(43:34):
Drake may behind this group. They can't.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Membo seems a little more exciting to me.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Seems a little more like he is very talented and
you can put him at right tackle. You put Cam
Robinson at left Heck.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
There you go. So we just solved the Okay, Patriots.
There what else you want there?
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Let's do Trevor Lawrence. They have the fifth overall pick
in the draft. They actually have a lot of guard
need on this team, and I think they should take
a lesson from the team we're going to talk about
next and take care of some of it before the draft.
A couple of guards that I think would be out there.
James Daniels actually played really well for the Steelers before
(44:11):
he had a major injury, and maybe they can afford
to kind of wait for him to get healthy.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
So that that's one guard name that stuck out to me.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Another possible option there would be this like a short
term fix, like a Kevin Zeitler, just to like come
in for a year while you draft and develop guys.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I actually don't love that.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I've heard Aaron Banks is going for like eighteen million dollars.
That seems like not a great idea, but at least
one guard in free agency.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah, Zeitler's interesting to me because I thought the Bears
would be a Zeitler teams to Ben Johnson connection. Obviously
they've gone another direction with the two trades that they've made.
The Chargers have a need inside guard, and Zeitler was
with Ortiz back in Baltimore, so there's an understanding there.
I could be making some sense. So he'll have he's
going to have a market. I was almost even wondering
(44:57):
with them what happens with Makai Beck than is that
a flyer you'd be willing to take you but as
someone who can help you run the ball, because last
year the Jags, we can talk about Trevor and his issues,
they couldn't run the ball. They were twenty six in
rushing yards per.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Game, and yet running backs like one of the positions
that they're pretty said, they've got their.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Guest, so they should be more productive in the run
game than they are, which means they're not getting any
push up front.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
I think they could be a team also that looks
for a center, So centers in this market. Drew Dollman
is probably costing too much money. But you played Ryan
Kelly twice a year. Maybe that's a veteran you bring
in Mitch Morse. This was surprising news that came out
on Thursday. Decided to retire. Struggled with injuries last year.
Maybe didn't play as well as his contract that they
(45:38):
were hoping for coming out of Buffalo. So they basically
have to fix their whole interior line in one offseason.
Josh Myers is a guy that's also out there from
Green Bay. Would not surprise me if they spent there
as well. And then I think they have their one
in Brian Thomas. I think they could use a little
bit of depth. I don't want them to go crazy
at the top of the market. I actually thought your
(45:59):
guy Josh Palmer in LA always could have been.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Like a little better.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
I always wanted just a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
He could be a rotation guy for a h team
that you think.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
I think there's a lot of similar players there. So
where do you put that price tag? Yeah too too
at well money? I would I would would you?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
I don't think I would go there.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
You would not for Josh Palmer.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
And then on the defensive side of the ball, because
I decided I'm taking this beyond just helping the quarterbacks. Uh,
they need some interior pass rushers. They actually, I think
are in a beautiful position with this new regime Liam
Cohen where I actually don't think this team has a
ton of screaming needs. They just have like pretty good
players across the board, and they need to upgrade their
(46:40):
overall talent. So Levi un Wuzurique, I think could could
be a fit there. You're Puna Ford. I would throw
out there like they could use interior rusher like Javon Hargrave.
They're on obviously going to sign all these guys, but
maybe one from that bucket and then one from the
safety bucket. Do you go a little top of the
market with Travon Morrigg, who's a good young player trying
(47:01):
to like establish maybe he would be like a plus
starter in free agency.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Yeah, I think Merg's gonna get a lot more money
than people think.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
And I think Jacksonville might be spending a lot in
free agency.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
I like that. I like that move and where they're picking.
They got the fifth pick right with Jacksonville, so I've
we've talked about him. I'm higher on him than Greg
Is because Greg doesn't go watch the playoff games from
the previous year. But Mason Graham to me, makes some
sense for them along the defensive tackle position. I also
think with where their needs lie, they could be a
trade back team. Now, the challenge in this draft is
(47:30):
who's coming up for who? To me, you could hope
that there's some heat on the two tackles because it's
a limited tackle pool. Maybe somebody moves up for one
of those guys. Maybe you could just slide back a
little bit. Okay, this will be a running also like
naland Walker because I wouldn't mind seeing him reunited there
with Trayvon Walker and we have the Walker boys just
getting after the Georgia Bulldogs out there for.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
It's funny because Travon Walker is in theory up for
an extension this year. Lthough they have him on the
on the fifth player, he's turned into a good player.
I wonder if they'll extend the fact that it's a
new regime. There sort of a lot of Trent Balcony's
guys are still there in the personnel department. Maybe doesn't
help them, but that would be interesting. Let's wrap with
Kayleb Williams.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
We've already been going to work before we could even
get the segment.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, so they add two guards, Jonah Jackson and Joe Toney,
and yet I think they couldn't the draft. That's up
to you because these guys are maybe short term solutions.
They're another team I think could look at a center.
They still look very thin at center. Go with Ryan
Kelly there. I actually don't think they have huge needs
(48:35):
in free agency, so I would say save your money
on offense because they have two receivers that they really like.
If you're adding a receiver, it's maybe like a Mac
Collins type.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
I just think good vibes, like, yeah, receiver putting no shoes.
The thing with the Bears, and I'll put this to
our resident Bears fan who we work with not to
be mentioned, but we were talking about the needs of
having the defensive side of the ball, and my argument was,
this is year one of Ben Jonson.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Your team, Caleb Williams.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
If next year, at this time, Caleb Williams is coming
off of forty five hundred yards and everybody in your organization,
in your city knows that he's the guy. And you
guys win six or seven games, that is a successful season.
Fans aren't gonna want to hear that. But that's just
playing the facts. So when you look at resources, free agency,
the draft, I am doing everything in my power. You've
already hired the coach to help him, You've already made
(49:24):
two trades to help him. If I have to be
a little bit lopsided offensively versus defensively with resources, I've
got to get this guy playing well. So that's where
in free agency in the draft, I'm still I'm tilting
to the offense.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Yeah, And actually they have needs that safety, which is
a position where maybe you could get a decent player
without spending a lot of money. We talked about the
top of the safety market, but there are guys, you know,
towards the back, like a Jeremy Chin or as Xavier Woods,
like guys who can play that I think they could use,
don't I don't see crazy needs. They have Dennis Allen
now running their defense so you know, maybe you go
(49:56):
cheap for his old friend Marcus Davenport as a second
edg dresser, like.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
One of your slave. Import always has a market this time.
Everybody's always everybody's because if if you just stay healthy,
he could You know, he always has a market.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
I'm talking about bargain basement shopping because ultimately, I think
they're they're showing us their priority is that offensive line.
He has already made those huge moves and I think
they've done a nice job quickly.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Can I give you three names for him in the draft?
Real plates? So these will be talk about helping your quarterback,
and the first one would be Gray's Abel out of
North Dakota State. You trade back a little bit. I
think he's going to be the best center in the draft.
He's really good. He was excellent at the Senior.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
Bowl, and not just at ten. Then you I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
I would not have a problem with that. He's inching
his way up my list.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
How about the center's doing so well in last year's class.
Do you think that could have some impact?
Speaker 2 (50:44):
It doesn't hurt. Yeah, Tampa got that.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Supposedly, that's supposed to be a position that takes forever
to the other thing work out. But Zach Frasier was
awesome right away and Graham Barton as you mentioning, because.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
This guy's played a crap ton of football, and that's
one of the things we've seen. It's the impact of
COVID nil the other stuff going with it that these
guys have all played a zillion games. Grays Abels played
a ton of games and they do a lot of
pro style stuff. He's played. You can play up and
down the line at every position at North Dakota State,
So that one, I still I think you get him,
even if he traded back a little bit. I mentioned
Ashton Genty there. I know you've got some running backs,
(51:16):
but he takes you to another level with what you
have with him coming out of Boise State. And then
Tyler Warren knowing you have Cole Comet, but let's be
a twelve personnel team, we've got a creative offensive coordinator.
You line up and you've got Tyler Warren and Cole
Comet who can both block as well as as be
weapons in the passing game. And then you've got DJ
Moore and Roma Doonza. Like that's kind of fun. All
(51:37):
of a Sudden.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
I love all those picks. I love that they're going
to be in a good position to take offense. And yes,
I agree DeAndre Swift and Cole Comet. I would put
in the bucket of guys that would not prevent.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
You from elite player.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Go get them, Go get them, Jeremiah, he's elite at
what he does. Although I expected you to come at
me a little harder on that showIn honestly, I like that.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
That's that's kind of what gets me going.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
It's like, I be honest, it's like I was so
blinded by the watch I couldn't even like formal thoughts.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
That's not even a takedown.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
We're going to be doing forties and free agents every
single week throughout the draft process. Unless Jeremiah gets sick
of me, we will talk to you after the free
agency frenzy.
Welcome to forties and free agents. I am Greg Rosenthal.
This is Daniel Jeremiah, and this is a limited series
going through draft season, and we arm wrestled to decide
who was gonna speak first. And people don't know this
about DJ, but very short arm length.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I got to go, Wow, that's an interesting tale there.
You know, we've seen in the history of this country
enemies come together and join hands and fine common ground.
None more challenging than this relationship coming together. But that's
what happens with the NFL offseason, Greg, when you've got
free agency in the draft, it's coming together.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
It's like I'm the pro personnel side with no experience whatsoever,
and you know the college game and so no, we
thought it'd be fun to come together during this season.
I call it the regular season, the build up to
free agency and then your season draft, and we kind
of compare the two worlds and decide how these teams
are going to be built. I'm excited about this.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
No, I'm excited about this in a big way. I'm
also excited about Greg's watch.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I don't know what they are paying over NFL Bailey,
but that is impressive.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
This was a gift, Thank you, and yeah you can.
You can check us out on YouTube on NFL Network
if you're listening to this. Let's go to my top
ten free agent's list. And I got to admit the
list looked a lot better before t Higgins and Trey
Smith got the franchise that because now Milton Williams is
number one, and it kind.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Of feels like that year where Eric Fisher went number
one in the free agency.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, or when Malik Jackson was actually my number one
free agent about seven eight years ago. We got Ronnie
Stanley with the Ravens. Zach Bond is now resigned, so
Sam Darnold moves up the list. Josh Sweat with the Eagles,
Chris Godwin, Carlton Davis, a lot of good cornerbacks.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I think at the top of this group.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Tarvarius war dj Read, DeVante Adams and Amari Cooper both
coming off like shaky years there. I'm curious when you
look at that list, like, what do you want to criticize?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
First? I don't want to criticize. I want to point
something out, which is sometimes when you're stacking free agents
and you're looking at who the best available players are,
I think people get caught up in pass production versus
future value. That's what free agency is all about, and
I think age is incredibly important. Now Milton Williams, I
believe it's twenty five years old. Yeah, so when you
factor that in, plus he can rush the passer from
(02:17):
the interior, which is extremely hard to find. I think that.
I think there's probably some shock value to people like
casual NFL fans to see his name up there at
the top, but he is going to get a lot
of money. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
The only regrets I have with this list is not
pushing some more of those young guys up the list,
which we'll talk about during the show. I did kind
of think this is taking a big picture view of this.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
There's a lot of defensive players.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
There's a lot of line like three down linebackers, defensive tackles.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
What do you think about the theory that.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Those positions, specifically off ball linebacker, a defensive tackle, like
that's a great free agent position because it takes so
long for them to develop. I think Milton Williams is
a good example of Zach Bond was that, like, these
are guys that maybe weren't really ready to be difference
makers early in their career, but those are positions where
they get a lot better and they're peaking at twenty five.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, it takes patience, and I think that's why there's
that sweet spot of guys who have experience but are
still young. Not many of them, but guys that do
have experience. I go back to Patrick Queen was last
year's free agent. Yeah, so you look at the number
that he got and the impact that he had with
the Pittsburgh Steelers because he was still ascending. He was
still young, but he played a lot of football. I
(03:31):
see it doing the Charger games. I've seen linebackers come
through there. Drew Trenkill was a great example of someone
who got better as he went along. Dayon Henley last
year year two, you saw the spike take place. So
I think if you're a team that has a whole
at off the ball linebacker and you are trying to
win and be competitive right now, I think there's there's
reason to go on the bet.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Right That's that's the position I mentioned because that's where
there's a lot of younger starters. Nick Bolton, Ernest Jones,
Drey Greenlaw's.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
And Ernest Jones stay somewhere he's been a good player
in three different places at a young age, Like it's
time for him to settle in.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
He's out there negotiating on Twitter with the Seahawks, like
responding to negative tweets about him that that's always he
had an injury.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Which is that's not a great sign.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Let's talk about who has the most cap space in
this entire market, and do you believe there is such
a thing as too much cap space? The Patriots have
one hundred and twenty seven million dollars, which to me
is a failure, Like that's why they spent enough.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
You don't have enough of your own players that command money,
which means you're not very good, which is why they're
picking where they're picking in the draft.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
The Raiders have ninety five, the Chargers of ninety, the
Cardinals have seventy eight, Commander sixty four.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And my issue is there's too much cap space.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Though, but different reasons. So if you go through those teams,
like let's take the Chargers and the Commanders, the Chargers
took their medicine last year, so you know, think about
all the dead money that they had. Keenan is gone,
Eckler's gone, Mike Williams is gone, so they kind of
ate that last year. So now they're freed up with
some money. See some a good bit of free agents
of their own that Khalil Mack I would imagine they'll
(05:05):
try and get back in the fold. Poona Ford who
played well. So some of those internal players I think
eat up some of that money. And then Washington that
is the picture of what it looks like when you
hit on a top quarterback. You can have your cake
and eat it too. I mean, they have all that space,
and they have the most important position secured, and they're
paying mexti amount.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
And yet they signed so many one year veteran free
agents last year that when you look at their roster,
they've got about ten starting jobs to fill. So Adam
Peters is gonna earn his money this offseason. But when
you look like more than half the league now has
more than forty million dollars, like the money that's come
in with this TV money, and there's it's much harder
(05:43):
to find great players than it is to spend your
cash space unless you're the Saints.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yea, they actually are a.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Great push it out and just push it out another future.
The interesting thing is I've talked to a bunch of
gms over the last you know, through the combine, over
the last couple of weeks, and all of them when
I go, are you going to be aggressive or free agency?
You guys got a lot of money. Yeah, we're gonna
wait for that second wave. Yeah. And they all say this,
and then free agency starts and we're all gonna be like,
oh my gosh, looking how much money this guy just got.
(06:09):
But they all have the intention of being patient.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
You.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
We mentioned the Chargers, so let's mention it here. Joey
Bosa released late Wednesday night.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Not a shock.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
They open up twenty five million dollars in cap space,
which you rarely see anymore. Like a cut, like helping
you that much, But they kind of set this up
a year ago knowing it might be a possibility.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Not a shock.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I put him at number fifty six in my top
one to one. I really struggled with what to do,
because sure, he has a higher ceiling than almost any
pass rusher out there, like if you got peaked Joey Bosa,
that's better than Josh Swat obviously, but he hasn't been
healthy for three years. If you add up the snap
total over the last three years, it adds up to
about a thousand snaps and most of that's last year,
(06:50):
which I don't need to tell you. He was out
there not one hundred percent, almost trying to prove he
could play hurt, but he wasn't the same Joey Bosa
for most of the year.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
There were just little flashes like early in the year.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, I think he's an example. And we'll see some
others in this list. In your list here of you're
going to see incentive lating contracts. So you're going to
get asked, because you put a list together, what's this
player going to get? And the answer should be, well,
it's going to be dependent on how he plays, because
there's going to be a base number for someone like
Joey Bosa, and it's going to be heavily incentivized. If
(07:20):
he does stay healthy, he can get his what his
worth is.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And I wouldn't be surprised if you know he combines
with his brother up in San Francisco, they're looking for
some edge.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
That would be fun.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Let's talk about the strength of the draft. Yeah, I
mean you take it over top your top fifty prospects
is out as of Thursday.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, it's fresh off a little update here from the combine,
and always some changes here once you get official measurements
on these guys too. But it's a unique draft in
that we don't have a quarterback until you get to
cam Ward. There's my tenth overall player. You have a
running back and two tight ends and the top six players.
Don't know that there's ever been a year quite like that.
But if we were to go beyond what you see
(08:00):
on the screen right here with these top ten players,
and you look at the entire top fifty man greg
it is defensive line heavy. It is loaded with both
DT's and edge rushers. You want a running back, there's
premier running backs in this draft. There's depth in this class.
Tight end you see those, there's top two guys up there.
There's tons of depth there. It's kind of a weird,
(08:22):
you know, draft in that regard because we've had receivers.
There's depth, but not the high end stars that we've
had in the past few years. Quarterbacks. Last year we
have those six guys go, it's nothing like that. So
it's gonna be fascinating to see how this marys up
with your list and my list, looking at free agency,
looking at the draft, and seeing how the draft is
(08:42):
going to inform what happens.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Well, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Let's like kind of look at I had the top
fifty list. You have your top fifty.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I had Top one to one. I mean, I'm working
more than double as hard as.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
I have a top one fifty that comes out before
my event. But i mean, hey, that's only forty nine.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
We're going to be doing this show every week, so
I'm looking forward to picking your list apart a little bit,
like and Mason Mason Graham's the top five guy can.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Even stay on the field on rundowns, Like, stay tuned
for more of that. But when we look at the different.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
On rundowns, is that what you saying?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, you think you think he's like a.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
He's an unbelievable wrestler's never on the ground, plays with
leverage and powers. Never are we going to have this
conversation already? Are we doing this now? No?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I just that was my first draft, Hot Bake, looking
at the different positions, you have five running backs.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
In your time watching the Alabama game in the playoffs
last year.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I thought there were some games where like good teams
actually made their plan around attacking Mason Graham a little.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Bit like Ohio State, the best team in the country,
that tried to attack them.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
How that go? I mean, I am feeling the heat
from having like a Michigan grad.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
We did well, Executive, How long did we get along?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Was that too long?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Said? Ten minutes. That's probably the over. I would have
taken the under on that, but that's okay.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So we talked strengths of this class. You say, obviously
the defensive line.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I would agree that that's also a strength of Look
at those agent class defensive line. You have fourteen in
your top fifty. I have twelve in my top fifty. Yeah,
that's crazy, and what does that do?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That's where I go back to, like I think Milton
Williams maybe the exception because of the age, and he's
healthy and he can you know, he can rush from inside.
So maybe he's thinking he's gonna get twenty. Maybe that
number is more like fifteen sixteen, you know, somewhere in
there he's gonna he's gonna do well. But some of
these other guys, like I think you're going to see
teams put the number and say here's the number. If
you you know you want to do a deal, we'll
(10:28):
do a deal. But we're not going to negotiate. We're
not going to move off that number because of the
sheer number of guys we got.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
There are guys in this class like at a free
agency Azizo Jalari, I think would be like an interesting pick,
solid player like Trashaun Wharton. I feel like I ranked
too low. Do you ever do you question your list?
They don't let me do a two point zero. I
would move him up twenty spots or so. I had
him too low. But guys like that maybe get left behind,
whereas other positions, offensive line have such a premium. Are
(10:56):
we at the point that offensive linemen in the draft
is almost like quarterbacks in the draft, And I do
it on my free agency list where I artificially have
to put them higher just because there aren't any, and
there aren't any in either space. It feels like this
year at least.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
When I was in Baltimore, we had a legendary scout,
Ron Marsonac, who scouted for forty fifty years you know,
since passed away, but we called him coach Ron, and
coach Ron one of the first things he told me
in one of my first years in the league was
when you're grading players, when you're grading offensive linemen in corners,
whatever you watch the tape and whatever you think he is,
you need to bump him up a level because if
you don't, you're never going to get him. If you're
(11:35):
waiting for the value at tackle or corner to match,
you know your great and where they are, and you're
never going to get them. They get pushed up. So
you have to do the same thing in terms of
what you're paying these guys. And in this year, in
particular the tackle group, there's not a lot of starting
NFL tackles and they all go really early. So a
team like the Kansas City Chiefs, people are wondering why
(11:55):
the heck did they move off of Joe Toney. Well, they,
as you saw in the Super Bowl, have a glaring
at left tackle and you have the center, right guard,
right tackle taken care of. We need a left guard
and a left tackle. Now, maybe Ronnie Stanley, you could argue,
makes a ton of sense for them. Go get a
former Raven like they did with Orlando Brown. That worked
out when they had a tackle. Need you go sign
(12:16):
Ronnie Stanley now? That's the Joe Toney money that's going
to Stanley. And now that left guard is a lot
easier to find a left guard at the bottom of
the first round or the second round or the third round.
You're not finding a starting tackle at that point in time. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I have actually a bunch of interior offensive linemen in
my top fifty, just because again there's not many people
out there. Tvin Jenkins has played a lot. Mkay Beckton
has moved up there after some cuts like Kevin Zelk
Banks can play a year for you, Aaron Banks. You
mentioned Will Fries is a Now not a lot of
sexy names here. I don't have a single tight end
(12:49):
that This is a fun class of running backs and
tight ends. You have five running backs in your top fifty,
you have four tight ends. I have a total of
two running backs in no tight ends in my top THI.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Let me give you two guys I didn't see where
you had them on your list here. Do not have
it in front of me. Maybe you can pull it up,
but I'd be curious on like JK. Dobbin so I
saw last year, Yeah, he's not And like Naji Harris, right,
those guys are productive players, good players, not on the
high end, but because of the depth of the running
backs in the draft, I wonder if one of those guys,
like a player of that ILK is, you could get
(13:24):
like a real value on Yes, guys, but.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Would you rather have.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Nase Harris for they're throwing out that he might get
eight ten million dollars a year.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
I'll maybe believe that.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I would guess I would without you saying, I would
have said he was going to get six to eight mins.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Okay, I think Jacob Dobbins would get less. Probably Aaron
Jones is also out there.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I always but again, if you want to bake that in,
like what if you baked in with those two guys
five five million with the incentives you go rush for
fourteen hundred and fifeen hundred yards, We'll get you up
to the eight nine million that you're hunting.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Would you rather have those guys or I guess second
round running back. Wouldn't you rather have the second round
running back?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well? Yeah, but it also just frees you up. You know,
I think the second round running back in terms of
the youth, the a little bit more explosive option, and
you can, you know, you can really cook there. But
the other thing is, man, if we have some of
these other needs, you know, we want to go get
a receiver, we have a corner need, Well let's go.
We can plug and play with this back at a
reasonable price, and then we can free ourselves up to
(14:25):
go with another position there in the second round. I mean,
these are the conversations that are taking place by the
way inside.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
The room, right because like, if you don't, if you're
in Kansas City for instance, and where they're drafting, you
can't expect to have a good left tackle.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You're not getting one. That's why to me, they have
to overpay. And that's why I don't know, because we're
talking about free agency in the draft. We're not talking trades.
But they've done that, they've gone that route before. I
just don't know. You're going to find many people willing
to part with a starting caliber left tackle. So all
roads lead to Ronnie Stanley is what I'm getting.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Mmmm yeah. Next on the list that left tackle is
Cam Robinson or.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
A little bit throughout his whole career has been up
at that.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
A little up and down. Dan Moore.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Guys, maybe Tyron Smith comes back, Like no, probably not
not something you want to go into the season with
defensive lineman who I'm curious who are some of your
favorites I'm going to talk about, Like when you look
at the free agency class, usually guys don't get to
free agency unless teams are okay losing them, which is
a little bit of a red flag. Like o Jalari
(15:25):
I mentioned, more of a situational guy, never was consistent,
like a three down type of guy. Tshaun Wharton maybe
just they couldn't pay him. He's next to Chris Jones,
he was with the Chiefs own Wuzaique for the Lions
is a good young player, but it took a while
for him.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Mcnis paid.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
They have to pay Hutchinson right. Then you have guys
coming off of injury.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I would be really into Malcolm Koons who missed all
of twenty twenty four but played really well in twenty
twenty three. Javon Hargrave is a guy who is once
a top my free agent list now coming off of
an injury. To Marcus Lawrence, Like, how in rooms are
you managing like taking one of those guys versus the draft,
like and the strength of it all.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So defensive tackles I've had this conversation with multiple people
similar to what I've said earlier, which is we like you,
you'll help us. Here's the number, and it's like there's
no negotiation, like we'll take you at this number, but
there's no reason for us to negotiate with you and
go beyond where we're comfortable because of I've got I've
got in my top fifty, number four, twenty five, twenty seven,
(16:27):
thirty two, forty three, forty nine, six defensive tackles in
my top fifty, and beyond those guys, I have another
ten plus that I feel I can come in and
at least be rotational starters for me.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
But what if I threw the theory out there that
this is not a great draft class, and you guys
who are all in the draft industrial complex is staring
at these guys. You know someone's got to go number thirty,
number forty, number fifty. You've almost convinced yourself into that
this is a good defensive line class, whereas the whole
class is a little blackluster and maybe last year they'd
(17:02):
all be around later.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, I would say, defensive tackle wise, I'm looking at
the guys right now and it is not There's no
two hundred and eighty pound guys, and I'm dreaming and
wishing and hoping are going to add twenty pounds. There's
no three hundred. We're talking about three hundred and forty
guys at three hundred forty pound guys need to lose weight.
I'm not talking about guys who came up. I'm talking
about guys who were all six three six four, three
(17:24):
h five to three point fifteen that ran sub five
flat or just over five flat forties like these guys
are athletic, big a dude. And we saw it at
the Senior Bowl. It was representative there. We saw it
with how they worked out. I don't think there's anything
fluky or made up about this defensive tackle class.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I'm gonna just keep taking shots at this draft.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
No, but that's what that's what's good. This is a
healthy discourse. I it does have a nice watch. It's
hard to get mad at somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I didn't even know that was showing, but that was
that is new.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I couldn't see for a couple seconds.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
It was it was a gift.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
It was a gift. It was a gift out you're running.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
We cannot afford that.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I don't know what's going on around.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Let's take a break.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
We're gonna come back and we're gonna talk quarterbacks afterwards,
try to figure out because look, this is this is
the last show before free agency really gets going. By
the time we tape again, a lot of these quarterback
situations will be taken care of, will be placed.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
We'll try to figure out how that all works after
the break.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
All right, we are back on forties and free agents,
and we are gonna talk quarterbacks. This is this is
my time of year. Like in a week or two,
we're gonna be past free agency. It'll be draft, and
DJ's just gonna try to dominate this show the quarterbacks
this year. It's an interesting free agency class. It's it's deep,
Sam Darnold. I have at fourth overall, justin Field nineteenth,
(18:50):
Jamis Winston, Russell Wilson, Jacoby Brissett in the fifties and sixties,
Jimmy Garoppolo, Daniel Jones rounding out in terms of the
top one hundred, and there's like decent backups of available
after that. I just didn't want to make every backup
quarterback make it Mike Guy, Mac Jones, I mean, everyone
forgot about him. He's a free agent. Joe Flacco is
a free agent, Gardner Minshew is a free agent, and
(19:11):
it's kind of figuring out at this time of year. DJ,
how do you compare these guys to the draft prospects
compared to the potential trade candidates? If there's any out there,
Aaron Rodgers will eventually be on this list because I
don't think they're going to be able to trade it
that I'm going to start there. Actually, where would you
put Aaron Rodgers among this entire group?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It is such a short term move. I would in
terms of Aaron Rodgers on this list, I would put
him probably a third. I would put him behind Fields.
I'm looking at your list right now. To me, if
I look at it from a draft standpoint, who signs
as a free agent that would preclude you from taking
a quarterback high in the draft, And I only see two.
(19:53):
I think whoever signed Sam Darnold, if he were to
leave Minnesota he goes and sign somewhere, I think that
team is out on taking a quarterback in the first round.
I think whoever signs Justin Fields, I think it's likely
that they wait on a on a you know, let's
evaluate him for a year and maybe our quarterback it's
not him, is coming in the future. But outside of
those top two guys, you know, Winston Russell Wilson, Jacoby Brissett, Garoppolo,
(20:17):
Daniel Jones, there's those guys are not going to stop you.
If the quarterback you like is there to take him.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I'd go further.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I would say none of these quarterbacks would you're you're
changing your draft plan for Sam Donald like I am.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I don't think you're going to spend the money that
it's going to cost on Sam Donald. If you're if
you're a team picking up there in the top of
the draft and you plan on.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Taking a call, what if he doesn't cost that much money.
I think as we get closer to free agency, there
is a greater a greater chance that he ends up
staying with Minnesota because ultimately the market isn't that into him.
The Raiders we've heard maybe not that in I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I don't think he's going to the Raiders.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I actually could see the Titans being interested in him.
But if you're the Titans, for instance, and you're going
after Sam Donald, have you already made the decision that
you're not drafting cam Ward in general, have they made
the decision? Do you think of what they're going to
do at quarterback? And I have Sean Payton's voice in
my head from the scouting combine where I believe him.
(21:15):
He said, at this point in the process last year,
they didn't know they were going to take Nixie.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
They also were holding the first overall pick. Your homework
starts a little earlier when you're holding the first overall
pick than it does when you're sitting there and seeing
who's going to fault you and who do you like
At that point in time, I would say, I don't
think he goes to Tennessee. I think Sam Donald. If
I was going to guess, I would say, if it's
a like a one term deal, a one year deal, yeah,
(21:39):
I would say, why would you leave Minnesota if you're
not going to go outside of Minnesota to chase a
one year deal because you already know what you have
there in Minnesota. It's basically a prove it situation. If
he gets beyond one year, I could make a case
to the place like Pittsburgh. You know, Pittsburgh seems to
me like it is Sam Donald justin field, justin field,
Sam Donald one of those guys would be their quarterback.
(22:00):
That's why a team like that, they're in no man's
land in the draft to get one of these guys.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Anyways, Yeah, and that's why I don't think it would change.
I think Fields ends up with the Jets or with
the Steelers. I think the Steelers want to keep him,
so that would make a lot of sense to me.
I think Donald ends up staying. And you asked before,
I'll answer it now how much it would cost. I
think you maybe can get Sam Donald for forty five
(22:24):
million dollars on.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Two years on two years on two years.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Especially in twenty two and a half, but most.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Of it's guaranteed, like ten of it's guaranteed into the
second year, where you have an option to cut him.
Maybe it's fit. I just don't think with everything that
gms are looking at for this quarterback class, and then
there's decent backups out there. Those last two games I
think lost him a lot of money because you saw.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Him play in the biggest of spots any froze and
it reminded everyone why he was available two straight off
seasons for almost no money, and so now you're giving
him a raise. But you're not giving that big away.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
So here's my pushback on that. And I'm I'm outed
and known as a Sam Darnold fan. I was when
he came leader of the d I mean bounced around
and hasn't worked this. This is why I would push
back on that. I think the Detroit game, yeah, Sam
did not play well. I'm not going to run from
that or hide from that. Like he did not play
well on the road in that wouldn't let go of
(23:20):
the BA the playoff game. Their offensive line got destroyed
in that game, and I would argue that if you're
going to make that case, then how do you explain
what happened in the Super Bowl and how do you
not acknowledge the impact of getting destroyed upfront and what
that has on the play of the quarterback. And I
also have fourteen games sample size, that's not a small
sample of him playing it at a very very high level.
(23:42):
When he was protected. He didn't get protected. He got
his butt kicked. I don't run from that one terrible game.
I don't put the playoff game on Sam. Okay, So
if we're going to talk numbers.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I would more than you.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
So my take is, I think if it's a one
year deal against state in Minnesota. If you can go
get a two year deal, whether that's Pittsburgh, whether that's
you know, wherever else is out there at that point time.
I don't know if he wants to go running back
to the New York market. I don't know that i'd
be in a hurry to do that with the Giants
instead of the Jets. But that would be, you know,
at least a conversation. My guess is he gets two years,
(24:15):
I'll say it's like thirty million in the first year, okay,
And I'll say there's five little something for the second
year guaranteed. Whether that's five million, maybe maybe as much
as ten. But I would say just a little something.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Oh, we're parking our car and then in the same grass.
That's basically that's the same. You just raised it a
little bit. What about the guy's not on this list?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
So kirk Cousins, I saw a report that he wants
to wait until after the draft because he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Want to see what seats get filled. He got look
what happened in the draft last year, right, but he
doesn't have the cards, right?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Can kirk Cousins dictate?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Maybe there isn't a market for him until day three
of the draft anyways, which would make more sense to me,
and I guess they would want to do right by
Kirk Cousins in Cleveland could make some sense. Who gets
left out between the draft and free agency. There's too
many spots that are wide open and so but.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
He's a free look.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Yes, if he gets released, he won't cost much money.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
It's going to be Russell Wilson from last year. Yes,
you're gonna pay him a million bucks because the Falcons
are cut in the check, which makes him way more
desirable for a place like Cleveland, who has, you know,
not a lot of money to spend because of how
much they have sunk and Watson, and he has familiarity there.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I actually could convince myself more into Kirk Cousins than
some of these other guys because I was I thought
it was remarkable how productive and how well he played
in games where he literally couldn't move.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
He like they figured it out for about half the
season there.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
And now you make the case he's a year more
removed from Achilles surgery and maybe he's a little bit.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Let me ask you this question. Nobody's talked about this,
but I think it's a fascinating conversation. If let's say
Sam Donald leaves, Sam Donald goes to the Steelers, right,
so he's gone. If you're Minnesota, and here's here's the options, right,
you have JJ you're hoping and you're hoping he's going
to be the but you need a veteran there. You
have Daniel Jones who's been on your team last year.
(26:05):
You have Kirk Cousins is available to come back, as
you know, buying you a little more time with Jajon
mur Would you rather have Daniel Jones with what he's
going to cost, which I would have to believe is
a lot more than what Kirk Cousins Because of the
Falcons and the way that contract was situated, you could
get Kirk Cousins back in Minnesota for next to nothing.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Would you rather have? That's so spicy that I can't
believe no one else says I've never heard anybody bring
this up.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Nate actually said very nice things about each other in
the press. They handled that pretty well.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Can I challenge our group here?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
This will be postpers We can't stump the tape and
this is like maybe in post by the podcast, the.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Time this airs, we could drop this little thing in
here because when they played after the game was over,
Justin Jefferson and Kirk Cousins had a moment was caught
on camera, and there is a lot of love between
those guys. Okay, So I'm just I don't know if
I'm looking at Daniel Jones and what that market is.
I don't know if that's the minshewe market, what is
that fifteen million bucks since you got or it's Kirk
(27:06):
Cousin saying I'll come back and literally pay me the minimum.
Is not making all this money from the found I.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Think Daniel Jones could be the guy who, in theory
is competing with Anthony Richardson. I think Justin Field's could
be that guy, but they're not gonna let him. You
said something very interesting in public which got on my
radar this week, which is you thought you wouldn't be
totally surprised if Gino Smith got traded.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, I just to me, DK's gone, right. We think
we think, well, yeah, he's requested a trade. It could
be done by the time you're listening to this. I
would imagine that's going to happen in short order. Okay,
So DK's gone. It just feels like it. Gino's what
thirty four, maybe mid thirties, Like there's there's moments in
an organization where you have a coach in his second
(27:52):
year where it just kind of feels like this could
be a reset for Seattle. You know, this is an
opportunity to reset. Now the challenges. Who's you know, who's
your quarter playing at that point.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Right, they actually would be the team. Then I would
extend for Sam Donald maybe and would convince.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
That they could get into that. That's why this would
have to happen pretty quick, but they.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Could get in on That hurts my feelings.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
But how would you do though, if, as the president
of the Geno fan club and the president of the
Sam Donald haters club, if somehow Gino was out and Sam.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Was in, well, I would just I would just root
against Sam Darnald next year, root for his demise like
I've been. It is very annoying that the Sam Donald
hive contains some of my favorite analysts in the in
the country, Nate Tice, Mena Chimes. Unfortunately, you're part of
it too, so I don't get what they're what they're
(28:46):
seeing that you don't wear because Gino Smith would be
a top this list for me. To me, he has
played more consistently, see more consistently.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
At a higher level, higher level playing.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I think he's more I think he's more of a
complete quarterback than any of these guys.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And this to Cousins too. And again, this is why
I love this conversation, because we need to see where
it takes us and then go there. But I think
there is a little bit of a market correction in
terms of older quarterbacks. Where you had Tom Brady, well,
you had Aaron Rodgers first of all, playing MVP level,
you know, going up to the age of forty, like
getting you know, towards forty. You had Tom Brady winning
a super Bowl after forty, and there was this kind
(29:21):
of belief of like, you know, these quarterbacks, they they're
all going to be great into their late thirties, right,
and then all of a sudden, we saw Russell Wilson
fall off a cliff, Matt Ryan, we saw Matt Ryan
fall off a cliff. We saw Ben you know when
his thing happened, you know, he had kind of fallen.
You go back a little ways. The normal thing is
most of these guys when you get in the mid thirties,
it starts to really tail off those guys Aaron Rodgers,
(29:42):
Tom Brady.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Those were the exceptions, right, and even Aaron Rodgers. People
are still betting on that. Now. If Aaron Rodgers plays
for a team this year and plays well, he will
be the most productive forty one year old quarterback of
all time behind Tom Brady, which is why I think
he fits in New York with the Giant.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I don't know where.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
It's a desperation move.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I don't know who the Giants are going to have
a quarterback. And I've had this conversation with a bunch
of different people and everybody says the same thing. It
feels like Aaron Rodgers or bust.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
But if they have Aaron Rodgers, do they move up
or potentially take cam Ward at three?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Which I think I think if cam Ward were there,
they would take cam Ward.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I the longer we go in the process, and this
is a good time to transition. Let's look at the
quarterbacks in your top fifty.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Tell me if I'm wrong. The longer this goes on,
you have cam.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Ward as your tenth overall prospect, Shade or Sanders at eighteen,
So actually not that huge of a gap from our
guy Jeremiah forty for Jackson Dart. The longer it goes on,
the more I just think cam Ward's going to be
the number one overall draft pick, not because.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Whether it's there, whether it's Tennessee right, the Giants, you know, coming.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Because people are making it out to be.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Okay, if you put him in last year's draft, where
is he wouldn't he be right there with Pennix and
McCarthy at the least, and those guys went in the
top ten.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
And so if you're telling me he's a top ten
talented quarterback and everyone needs quarterbacks in this class, that.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
He's gonna go. I mean, there's no question he's going
to be one of the first three picks in the draft.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Okay, but we take that to the bank.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
What about one? I think that's I think there's a
good chance of that, whether or not that's Tennessee deciding
to do it or whether that's somebody wanting to pay
the price to go up.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
All it takes is one.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
So if the Giants, yeah, if they don't get Rogers,
or even if they did get Rogers, do you think
Rogers and cam like do you would you trust. That's
why I don't want to sign Rogers at all. It's
just too much of a headache him and the guy
that you're You're you're trusting the future, you're franchise.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Maybe mixes you out.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Well, maybe we get some spice then maybe you know
we're as we're recording this, we're a few days away
from free agency, right, there's enough of a window there.
If I'm the Giants, I don't want to get caught
with nothing. That literally is a game of musical chairs.
And if you think you can make the move to
go to number one to secure that you get cam Ward,
(31:55):
then okay, we do that. We don't worry about Aaron Rodgers.
Let's let's just roll with who we're going to get
with the first overall pick.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Ma if the move in March, you don't have to wait.
And I mean what I'm saying is if.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
You get the free agency and you're still sitting at
pick number three, yeah, and you're just saying, you know,
we'll just wait till the draft, well then you better
like more than one quarterback.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
If that's the case, So should Sanders might slip in
this draft? He might not wait. I just said all
the teams that need quarterbacks. And that's why I think, can.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I cut you off there by the way, because this
is a popular it's a popular TV segment, it's a
popular conversation. How you know how far will he slide?
And the whole league, you know, doesn't like Shodo or Standers.
And I'm like, do you realize, right, it only takes
one team.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Sure you can go.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
You might have all the sources in the world. I
don't care who you are. The most connected people in
this business. Do not have rock solid going to tell
you the true sources in all thirty two buildings. So
these people that are saying, well, he's going to do
this or he's going to do that, I'm like, there's
no way for anybody to know this. And I think
this is a fit draft more than any other that
I can ever remember. I think shud Or Standers is
a really good fit for a team like the Raiders.
(32:57):
I think he makes sense as a fit for a
team like the Saints. So all it takes is one
of those teams.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
So don't buy in.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
And it's not just a shootour Sanders conversation. It's a
player in general. When you hear everybody's punting on this
guy and everybody's out on him, like no, it takes
one team.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Well, this class I think is going to have more
disagreement up and down the board than any because it feels.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Like there's only two or three players that everyone agrees on.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
But to the quarterback point, yeah, just logically, Tennessee, Cleveland Giants, Raiders, Jets.
I'll throw the Saints in there. That's just in the
top nine picks. They all need quarterbacks, and I tend
to agree with you. I tend to think that the
Saints would maybe be the floor. I don't know if
they're crazy enough, although Mickey Loomis has been known to
(33:44):
make some crazy trades to trade out for Shadeur Sanders,
but if he fell.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
To nine, Can I give you the sneaky quarterback team though, please,
because we were just talking about with Seattle. Okay, I
don't know who their guy would be. I don't know which,
you know, if that's maybe that's more they wanted take
a flyer on somebody in the second on the second day.
You know, maybe that's Jackson Dart, maybe that's you know,
Tyler Shuck, one of those type of guys that you
could get maybe maybe you trade back a little bit,
(34:09):
take one bottom of the first maybe you take one
in the second round. But I was kind of just
going through all these teams, and just because the conversation
we had about Geno getting a little bit older and
not knowing if they could pivot. Then all of a sudden,
you get another team that's in the in the quarterback
mix a little bit.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
So Seattle.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, picking at eighteen, they would theoretically have more draft
capital because they've traded away Dk Metcalf.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
You could use that to make a move. I mean
I didn't. I didn't mention it before. Though.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
There is one screaming logical team for Gino Smith, and
it's his old buddy Pete Carrol.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Like those two guys, that solves their problem.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Two guys are always I like that. I would accept
that that move for Gino Smith. I think that could
work out. You know, they spend a lot of money
in free agency. Like we mentioned, all the money that
is out there. We're going to see over the next week,
but it will be interesting to see how teams spend
at quarterback.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
I think the markets changed a little bit.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I think the Daniel Jones contract was part of it,
and then the Baker Mayfield contract, the first one he
took with Tampa being so effective.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
As part of it is like, you.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Don't have to pay Daniel Jones level quarterbacks, and I
would consider Darnold or fields like around that or a
little lower. You don't have to pay them eighty five
percent of Joe Burrow. It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
It's really half what it is. I think thirty million
is kind of that. That's going to be that veteran mark.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Our salary cap is just costing these top tier quarterbacks
so much money because you can't tell me that Patrick
Mahomes is the same essentially as like the.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Eighth quarterback in the league who gets that games.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
There's fun games to play though, when you cross different
positions and value and look at the numbers and then
try and wrap your mind right it. Last year, my
favorite was I got a lot of texts they were
saying that the Eagles just get Saquon Barkley for Gabe
Davis Prices, right.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
I was like, yeah, Dorrits Armstrong got more money than
Saquon Barkley last year, which is why I was good
they gave him to Speaking of weird dollars, you know,
to two at Well sign. I just want to throw
this out because I liked ten million. We're a new
news show too, to to at Well got ten million.
I have a feeling there were people around the league
that were.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Like, what are you doing to us?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I had a decision maker that shot me at I
actually I was ahead of it. I sent him that
contract and then he was not. He was like, yeah,
that didn't help. I think they had somebody else in
mind for a price, someone in that neighborhood. And I
just said, yeah, that's this is where the market is.
You're not getting dead player for that price.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
He has about a thousand yards through four years. I
feel like Sean mcvayson justifying that draft pick.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I like to to hour it was a nice development
story that he improved to a solid fourth receiver, which
he can be for them, and I guess they're gonna
he's more of a third receiver for them if but
he's getting double the money of DeMarcus Robinson a year ago.
DeMarcus Robinson was a better player. That tells me Sean
mcvay's got all the juice in the building.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
I want to this is this is real time here.
What year was he was too to out? Well twenty two? Yeah,
four years ago, so twenty two. So I'm just going
to see where I had him because I was curious
on this because I like going through to two at well.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
It was a late second round pick in the end,
but a shocking ye one, very about ten more pounds.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
You sure it was twenty two.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
He's played four years in the league, so it would
be twenty one. Y, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Twenty that's a wrong year. I'm looking in the wrong file.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Can I give you a theory while you're looking?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
It reminds me a lot of the Tavon Austin scene
with Jeff Fisher in Hard Knocks, which I think it
was the off season Hard Knocks, which probably only I
watched All or Nothing, where it was a it was
a great moment Tevon Austin, this guy everyone called the
bus a developmental story, improved to like a pretty decent player,
and they just loved him as a person, and so
they gave him that contract. Everyone felt so good in
(37:45):
the organization in the moment. It was almost worth it
just for that moment. Ended up not being a very
good contract at all. It reminds me of a light
version of that. Everyone probably loves two to at Well.
It's a great moment, but it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Okay to two at Well was my seventy ninth player.
So you said he like in the fift the fifties,
so he was just under five to nine, one hundred
and fifty five pounds, ran a four to three five
at his pro day, I talked about jet sweeps. He's dynamic,
he can separate, he's got a second year ball in
the air, he's got some route polish. She was a
high school quarterback, throw the ball seventy yards on his knees,
(38:18):
just through that there for seven years. But I said
he was a miniature t Y Hilton. That's too like
if you're hoping that he was going to what he
was going to be like, that's but he hasn't been.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
He's turned into a pretty good role player.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Rams fans in the front office will defend him as
he he stretches the field and that opens it up
and he's improved. Like so he's basically a good number
four getting like good number three money.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
I guess, can I give you a fun podcast topic?
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (38:41):
What if you just did a tournament like it was
like it was a fighting tournament between but the lightweight division.
So you have like Calvin Austin versus two two at
Well in round one squaring off. Who would you rather have? Well,
I'm just saying that's just that.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Would be fun to watch. I thought you were going
to throw me in the mix, generate. I'm like a
little that weight class. I got a little more muscle.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
It's not an idea worthy of the watch that you're wearing,
but it is definitely something I'm a spirer.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Okay, more to come on forties in free agents. Back
in a minute. We are back on forties and free agents.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
So we are going to wrap up the show with
an exercise that I'm excited about. We're going to talk
about building around some of these young quarterbacks in the league.
And all three of them are in the top ten
of the draft in terms of their team is picking
in the top ten of the draft.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
The Patriots are at number four.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
They're there with Drake May Trevor Lawrence, who frankly were
being a little generous calling him a young quarterback at
this point, like he's two years into his second contract,
and this is what I was talking about everyone gets
like Patrick Mahomes money. Trevor Lawrence is making the same
money as like Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes. This doesn't
really help your team building. And Kayleb Williams is the
(40:01):
pick of the draft in terms of the Bears. And
we're gonna go through and I'm gonna suggest some team
building I want to see in free agency.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
I'm the free agency you can grade my free agent.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
General manager jobs, and then when we get to the
draft portion, we'll see how I did, and you'll choose
what you want to do building around these guys in
the draft.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
So Drake May, let's start there, number four overall pick.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
The number one thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna
trade for DK metcalf yep.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
And I'm gonna tell you what you're gonna trade. You're
gonna trade the thirty eighth pick.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Okay, I think that could get it done.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
I think that would get it.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Supposedly, he wants he wants to play for a contender,
and he.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I don't know if DK is gonna love that, but
that's you know, if I'm on the Patriots, Yeah, thirty
eighth pick, make that move.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
They've got Mike Rabel, They've got a lot of targets
available because they've got three or four guys who probably
profile well as a number three receiver, but not even
the number two.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
At this point. You've got a quarterback who loves to
throw a deep throw it to the outside. It's a
nice fit. Okay, that's number one. Number two.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
I'm going to sign and maybe overpay Cam Robinson or
Morgan Moses if Cam Robinson just gets too crazy.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
And these guys aren't going to change my life. But
it's what they didn't do a year ago.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, they had a terrible plan where they had no
backup plan. They had no even starting plan. And to me,
this is more of a backup plan you want to develop.
It would not stop you from draft taking alignment. I'll
get there, right, you would. It would not stop you
from drafting a tackle. But at least it's just Okay,
there's one tackle spot they need. They need two tackle
spots filled.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Man. I saw them with the Chargers last year up
close and personal. That is rough, rough supporting group that
he's got there, especially at the tackle position. So I
like that.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Anybody else you want to lob in there, I mean,
I I Ronnie Stanley, they would they would have liked
to get, but I feel like that's going to probably
go too much. And then I'm looking on the defensive
side of the ball too, So it's not just building
around Drake may. I think Nick Bolton would make sense
for them as like a three down linebacker. You want
to be building with younger players, and they need edge players.
I'm going Mountain Kunts as well, So it's not build
(42:02):
up the defense as part of as part of helping
Drake me out. When you look at the wide receiver
position in free agency, I don't know. I guess you
could sign one, but they all just profile as other
guy like they've gone this route before, taking the lower tier,
like Josh Palmer type, like they don't need another one
of them.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
I don't think. I don't think DeVante Adams, you know,
is in a hurry to go to New England. The
one game, the one name that I think would be
kind of interesting for them from a receiver standpoint. I
know wasn't great last year in terms of the production,
but Keenan Allen just is kind of a veteran who
can still get open on some third downs. I think Okay,
at a relative you cost, that wouldn't make some sense
to me.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Barris Fans got on him early in the year. I
tell you, if you watch the end of that season,
Caleb trusted Keenan Allen. That's what we kind of played
himself into either shape or figuring out that offense. And
by the end of the year it was like, Okay,
I agree with you, he can he can make some sense.
Let's go to Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Well, hold on, I get to my draft with these guys. Okay, yeah,
we're gonna take We're gonna take the second round pick's gone,
so we've already acquired the k Metcalf so that's taken
care of. But now you've got between now and the
draft to decide if you want armand Membo, if you
want Will Campbell. So we're we're committed to taking an
offensive line with that.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Are they you? Are they a difference maker enough?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
There's such an upgrade and you're not gonna have to
worry about him. So you know, you've got a starter
plug in place for eight to ten years. Like they
can't trot out there what they had last year and
you have to We just talked about it at the
top of the show. If you want an offensive tackle,
you got to pay the premium. It might be a
little bit earlier than you want to. You're gonna if
you want one in free agency, you're gonna cost more
than you want to. But they can't run out there.
(43:34):
Drake may behind this group. They can't.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Membo seems a little more exciting to me.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Seems a little more like he is very talented and
you can put him at right tackle. You put Cam
Robinson at left Heck.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
There you go. So we just solved the Okay, Patriots.
There what else you want there?
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Let's do Trevor Lawrence. They have the fifth overall pick
in the draft. They actually have a lot of guard
need on this team, and I think they should take
a lesson from the team we're going to talk about
next and take care of some of it before the draft.
A couple of guards that I think would be out there.
James Daniels actually played really well for the Steelers before
(44:11):
he had a major injury, and maybe they can afford
to kind of wait for him to get healthy.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
So that that's one guard name that stuck out to me.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Another possible option there would be this like a short
term fix, like a Kevin Zeitler, just to like come
in for a year while you draft and develop guys.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I actually don't love that.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I've heard Aaron Banks is going for like eighteen million dollars.
That seems like not a great idea, but at least
one guard in free agency.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah, Zeitler's interesting to me because I thought the Bears
would be a Zeitler teams to Ben Johnson connection. Obviously
they've gone another direction with the two trades that they've made.
The Chargers have a need inside guard, and Zeitler was
with Ortiz back in Baltimore, so there's an understanding there.
I could be making some sense. So he'll have he's
going to have a market. I was almost even wondering
(44:57):
with them what happens with Makai Beck than is that
a flyer you'd be willing to take you but as
someone who can help you run the ball, because last
year the Jags, we can talk about Trevor and his issues,
they couldn't run the ball. They were twenty six in
rushing yards per.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Game, and yet running backs like one of the positions
that they're pretty said, they've got their.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Guest, so they should be more productive in the run
game than they are, which means they're not getting any
push up front.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
I think they could be a team also that looks
for a center, So centers in this market. Drew Dollman
is probably costing too much money. But you played Ryan
Kelly twice a year. Maybe that's a veteran you bring
in Mitch Morse. This was surprising news that came out
on Thursday. Decided to retire. Struggled with injuries last year.
Maybe didn't play as well as his contract that they
(45:38):
were hoping for coming out of Buffalo. So they basically
have to fix their whole interior line in one offseason.
Josh Myers is a guy that's also out there from
Green Bay. Would not surprise me if they spent there
as well. And then I think they have their one
in Brian Thomas. I think they could use a little
bit of depth. I don't want them to go crazy
at the top of the market. I actually thought your
(45:59):
guy Josh Palmer in LA always could have been.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Like a little better.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
I always wanted just a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
He could be a rotation guy for a h team
that you think.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
I think there's a lot of similar players there. So
where do you put that price tag? Yeah too too
at well money? I would I would would you?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
I don't think I would go there.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
You would not for Josh Palmer.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
And then on the defensive side of the ball, because
I decided I'm taking this beyond just helping the quarterbacks. Uh,
they need some interior pass rushers. They actually, I think
are in a beautiful position with this new regime Liam
Cohen where I actually don't think this team has a
ton of screaming needs. They just have like pretty good
players across the board, and they need to upgrade their
(46:40):
overall talent. So Levi un Wuzurique, I think could could
be a fit there. You're Puna Ford. I would throw
out there like they could use interior rusher like Javon Hargrave.
They're on obviously going to sign all these guys, but
maybe one from that bucket and then one from the
safety bucket. Do you go a little top of the
market with Travon Morrigg, who's a good young player trying
(47:01):
to like establish maybe he would be like a plus
starter in free agency.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Yeah, I think Merg's gonna get a lot more money
than people think.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
And I think Jacksonville might be spending a lot in
free agency.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
I like that. I like that move and where they're picking.
They got the fifth pick right with Jacksonville, so I've
we've talked about him. I'm higher on him than Greg
Is because Greg doesn't go watch the playoff games from
the previous year. But Mason Graham to me, makes some
sense for them along the defensive tackle position. I also
think with where their needs lie, they could be a
trade back team. Now, the challenge in this draft is
(47:30):
who's coming up for who? To me, you could hope
that there's some heat on the two tackles because it's
a limited tackle pool. Maybe somebody moves up for one
of those guys. Maybe you could just slide back a
little bit. Okay, this will be a running also like
naland Walker because I wouldn't mind seeing him reunited there
with Trayvon Walker and we have the Walker boys just
getting after the Georgia Bulldogs out there for.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
It's funny because Travon Walker is in theory up for
an extension this year. Lthough they have him on the
on the fifth player, he's turned into a good player.
I wonder if they'll extend the fact that it's a
new regime. There sort of a lot of Trent Balcony's
guys are still there in the personnel department. Maybe doesn't
help them, but that would be interesting. Let's wrap with
Kayleb Williams.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
We've already been going to work before we could even
get the segment.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, so they add two guards, Jonah Jackson and Joe Toney,
and yet I think they couldn't the draft. That's up
to you because these guys are maybe short term solutions.
They're another team I think could look at a center.
They still look very thin at center. Go with Ryan
Kelly there. I actually don't think they have huge needs
(48:35):
in free agency, so I would say save your money
on offense because they have two receivers that they really like.
If you're adding a receiver, it's maybe like a Mac
Collins type.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
I just think good vibes, like, yeah, receiver putting no shoes.
The thing with the Bears, and I'll put this to
our resident Bears fan who we work with not to
be mentioned, but we were talking about the needs of
having the defensive side of the ball, and my argument was,
this is year one of Ben Jonson.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Your team, Caleb Williams.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
If next year, at this time, Caleb Williams is coming
off of forty five hundred yards and everybody in your organization,
in your city knows that he's the guy. And you
guys win six or seven games, that is a successful season.
Fans aren't gonna want to hear that. But that's just
playing the facts. So when you look at resources, free agency,
the draft, I am doing everything in my power. You've
already hired the coach to help him, You've already made
(49:24):
two trades to help him. If I have to be
a little bit lopsided offensively versus defensively with resources, I've
got to get this guy playing well. So that's where
in free agency in the draft, I'm still I'm tilting
to the offense.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Yeah, And actually they have needs that safety, which is
a position where maybe you could get a decent player
without spending a lot of money. We talked about the
top of the safety market, but there are guys, you know,
towards the back, like a Jeremy Chin or as Xavier Woods,
like guys who can play that I think they could use,
don't I don't see crazy needs. They have Dennis Allen
now running their defense so you know, maybe you go
(49:56):
cheap for his old friend Marcus Davenport as a second
edg dresser, like.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
One of your slave. Import always has a market this time.
Everybody's always everybody's because if if you just stay healthy,
he could You know, he always has a market.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
I'm talking about bargain basement shopping because ultimately, I think
they're they're showing us their priority is that offensive line.
He has already made those huge moves and I think
they've done a nice job quickly.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Can I give you three names for him in the draft?
Real plates? So these will be talk about helping your quarterback,
and the first one would be Gray's Abel out of
North Dakota State. You trade back a little bit. I
think he's going to be the best center in the draft.
He's really good. He was excellent at the Senior.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
Bowl, and not just at ten. Then you I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
I would not have a problem with that. He's inching
his way up my list.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
How about the center's doing so well in last year's class.
Do you think that could have some impact?
Speaker 2 (50:44):
It doesn't hurt. Yeah, Tampa got that.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Supposedly, that's supposed to be a position that takes forever
to the other thing work out. But Zach Frasier was
awesome right away and Graham Barton as you mentioning, because.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
This guy's played a crap ton of football, and that's
one of the things we've seen. It's the impact of
COVID nil the other stuff going with it that these
guys have all played a zillion games. Grays Abels played
a ton of games and they do a lot of
pro style stuff. He's played. You can play up and
down the line at every position at North Dakota State,
So that one, I still I think you get him,
even if he traded back a little bit. I mentioned
Ashton Genty there. I know you've got some running backs,
(51:16):
but he takes you to another level with what you
have with him coming out of Boise State. And then
Tyler Warren knowing you have Cole Comet, but let's be
a twelve personnel team, we've got a creative offensive coordinator.
You line up and you've got Tyler Warren and Cole
Comet who can both block as well as as be
weapons in the passing game. And then you've got DJ
Moore and Roma Doonza. Like that's kind of fun. All
(51:37):
of a Sudden.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
I love all those picks. I love that they're going
to be in a good position to take offense. And yes,
I agree DeAndre Swift and Cole Comet. I would put
in the bucket of guys that would not prevent.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
You from elite player.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Go get them, Go get them, Jeremiah, he's elite at
what he does. Although I expected you to come at
me a little harder on that showIn honestly, I like that.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
That's that's kind of what gets me going.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
It's like, I be honest, it's like I was so
blinded by the watch I couldn't even like formal thoughts.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
That's not even a takedown.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
We're going to be doing forties and free agents every
single week throughout the draft process. Unless Jeremiah gets sick
of me, we will talk to you after the free
agency frenzy.
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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