April 21, 2025 • 45 mins
NFL Network's Gregg Rosenthal and Daniel Jeremiah convene for one last time before the 2025 NFL Draft on Thursday in Green Bay, Wisconsin. First, DJ addresses why he moved Colorado WR/CB Travis Hunter to No. 1 on his Top 150 Prospects Ranking. Then, Gregg puts DJ on the clock with some intriguing draft scenarios. Later, the duo lists off teams that they believe will either make progress or regress following the NFL Draft.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Forties and Free Agents.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Greg Rosenthal joined by my friend Daniel Jeremiah for
the last time before the NFL Draft. DJ, you have
successfully been a guest on every single football podcast in America.
I feel like now it's time you don't have to
do that anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
You're graduating. Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, I'm I'm excited to get the actual draft here.
But I did notice, you know, a lot of a
lot of media stuff, and they're all dropped in the
same day, to the point where I was like, man,
maybe I should wardrobe change on these shows. So then
you're popping up on people's timeline. It feels like it's
something totally new and fresh.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
No one, No one watches or listens to you for
your wardrobe. So it's fine, DJA, you're we're going to
go through for the very last time.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Not you could have.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Probably stopped with the watches or listens and then just
left the rest.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Now. I mean, Forties and Free Agents is a hit.
I don't know if you know.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We might we might have to do this past season,
but we got one more before the draft, and we
do have one more after the draft. So if you're listening,
this is not our last one, but I do feel
like we've been on a journey here together. And as
we wrap up later in the show, we'll look at
some teams we think maybe our only one good draft
away that might surprise you from really mattering some teams,
maybe to just you know, pump the brakes on a
(01:19):
little bit. But before we get into draft week, I guess,
now that you've been through the process, you've watched every
single player, you have decided to make a change. Your
top one hundred and fifty prospects list is out, and
Travis Hunter is going to be the guy when you
look back years from now, is number one? Why the
(01:40):
move at the last minute over Abdull Carter?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, it's kind of a process of getting there. I
had the same grades on Carter and on Hunter, and
I had Carter from the jumps as the number one guy,
And part of that's just a core belief in building
front to back right. It's a pass rusher. It's more
of a premium position than someone who plays on the perimeter.
But there's also the unique aspect of Travis Hunter and
(02:04):
all that he brings and the chance to play, you know,
on both sides of the ball. At least to major
and minor and the impact that he brings. And I'd
been I'd been toying with it of like gosh, do
I do that? And then you know, you kind of
learned more and more about Hunter. To be honest, it
was more learning about Hunter the person. Not a knock
on Abdol Carter, but just the wiring of Hunter is
so off the charts, and that was a big factor
(02:28):
in it. But my I can tell you the moment
it happened, like I guess, you know, the moment that
I decided to make the change. As we were covering
the Colorado Pro Day and he was, you know, running
around at the very end of the pro day. There's
a close up shot of him and he didn't have
a beat of sweat on him, and I was like,
that was just like I don't know why it's such.
It seems like such a small and significant thing. But
I was just sitting there going like, this guy is
(02:49):
a cyborg. Like he's got an endless gas tank, he
does not get tired. Maybe he really can pull this off,
or at least you know, he's going to you know,
be a full time player. In my opinion, on offense,
and you're gonna be able to use him maybe more
than I would have even anticipated. On defense. Some guys
are just a little a little different. So I was
I was leaning, leaning, leaning, and the dumbest of all things,
that little close up shot. I was like, that was
(03:10):
the last little nudge I needed. I was like, I
just do it.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
There is something to that.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Whenever, like Roger Federer was winning some long five set
match against Rafiel and Loadani just looked like he had
just woken up like that, that's true greatness. I thought
maybe the moment you you changed your.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Mind though, was on our last show.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I hate to bring this up, but you know I
was pushing you, saying, how can you not have Travis
Hunter number one?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Overall?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
History will not look back on you fondly? And here
we are next show and there's a move. So did
I have anything to do with it?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Here? Well, I feel like this is maybe I don't
listen to you great because I feel like I'm hearing
this for the first time. So yeah, maybe I should
just start listening more. Maybe that's the lesson in this
whole thing. I just think when Greg talks, I just
you know, look at my notes. What else have I
got to talk about. Maybe I'm just not listening to
you as the point, right.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, I think that that would be a coach coaching
point if you get any of those emails from our
talent coach, you know, maybe listen a little bit more. Okay,
we've gotten to the end of this process, and yeah,
I'm with you. Hunter is just he's just so special,
So how can you not put them number one? But
Carter's a strong number two. I guess as we get
to the end of the process, kind of your general
(04:17):
impressions of this draft class as you went through it
the last like three months and we're at this point,
how has the draft.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Changed to you? Like, what stands out the most to you?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Well, to me, I feel like there's you know, a
couple takeaways. Number One, cam Ward to me is the
clear number one quarterback, So you start there put him
in that class. And then I feel like, in my opinion,
there's six guys, you know, six guys who I feel
pretty confident about. In other words, I feel like there's
a high ceiling there. I feel like there's a high floor.
I feel like there's little variants. I feel like I
(04:50):
know with who these guys and what these guys are.
So for me, that's that you get a couple tight
ends in that six with Warren and Lovelin, you get
gent the running back in there, the two the we've mentioned,
you know, in terms of the very top of the list,
with Hunter and with Carter, and then your favorite player
in the draft, Mason Graham would be in there as well.
So that group right there, Jalen Carter, I guess was that.
(05:13):
I don't know if I said him, but that's that
collection of players. To me, that's the group that's the core.
And then after that, really Greg, there's not much difference
like the tenth guy, the you know, I've been using
Quinchawn Judkins as an example, like he's in the early
thirties for me, but grade wise it's tough to differentiate
him between the guys who will be you know, eleven, twelve,
(05:34):
thirteen on the list.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
And I certainly don't need to tell you this, but
I'm not the only one that would disagree with you
on that group, even I think more than other classes.
Maybe it's a list of four or five and it
doesn't have grammar. Some people have a different defensive player
in instead of Carter and it's why it's it's just
fascinating where after these first few picks, it just seems
like a grab bag, which is exciting to me. And
(05:57):
so that makes me think where you think the inflection
point is in.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
The first round?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And there's probably more than one answer to this. But
after listening to Andrew Berry the Browns GM speak on
Thursday about Travis Hunter, and you know he's comparing him
to Show Hey and that they have a vision that
he's more receiver than cornerback. But you take away the
Show Hey like special nature to him. I'm just thinking
(06:24):
they're gonna do the thing that makes the most sense
for them to do, which is take Travis Hunter. So
I really do feel like I know our NFL network
executives wouldn't like this. There's not a lot of mystery
to me of the first two picks. Do you disagree
with that, and if so, where do you think the
big inflection point is in this draft?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah? I don't know. You know, with Travis Hunter, if
he needs to have that box of all thirty two
hats next to him, I think he could probably start.
I guess they don't crease hats anymore, right, that's probably
showing my age, but I would probably be creasing that
that Cleveland Brown's had and making that thing nice and
snug and comfortable for draft night. That feels like the
way it's going. So you mentioned inflection points, Well, inflection
(07:01):
points to me are where there could be you know,
intriguer movement and the things that draw both are the
quarterback positions. So the inflection points for me and this
draft start at three. Do the Giants take one? Do
they take Shador? Do they you know, do they shock
everyone they take Jackson Dart or do they just take
you know, the best available player that's staring them right
(07:21):
in the face in Abdul Carter. I think that's the
way that they go. But that's still at least the
first thing you know that we don't know in this
draft starts at number three, and then I get to
nine with New Orleans, you know, the Derek Carr news
and are they comfortable with Rattler? Are they going to
potentially be a quarterback spot? The fact that they're deemed
as a potential quarterback spot, does that mean you know,
(07:43):
a team like Pittsburgh at twenty one, which is another
inflection point, are they are they trying to get ahead
of New Orleans? Are they that desperate to do that? So,
like to me three nine twenty one, those neighborhoods are
gonna be the ones with the most attention on them.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Okay, so you're talking about potential trades, potential trade ups.
If you look at this class as being one where
everyone's got a little different opinions, and then you throw
in you mentioned the Derek Carr situation. There's a lot
of potential veterans that could be traded over the three days.
Just a quick list, Jalen Ramsey, Dallas Godder, Mark Andrews,
(08:19):
Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins. And maybe those guys aren't affecting
the top of the draft. Tyreek Hill, I could even
throw out there, Trey Hendrickson.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Who knows.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
When you look at those two things combined, the veterans
and then maybe not a lot of consensus on a
lot of these players. Do you think that's going to
be more trades less trades? Maybe you don't get the
full value of the draft chart, Like, how do you
think that actually plays out on Draft night?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I don't know, to be honest with you, and I
can you know, I can give you different examples of
different teams. I do know that in talking to a
bunch of teams in trade back scenarios, they're interested in
collecting future picks, so that's something they're interested in. I
think there's a lot of people that would love to
put the car in reverse, but I can't find a
lot of people that want to put the car and
(09:06):
drive in terms of moving up for guys, so you
never know for sure on that. There's teams that you
could say, like Philadelphia is a team to me who
has an army of picks next year. I think they
have twelve picks next year, So I don't know that
all their picks this year would even make their roster
because of how deep and talented this team is, So
(09:27):
I could see them packaging some picks later on in
this draft, and if they identified or targeted a player
along the line of scrimmage that they liked, I could
see them moving up a little bit and being aggressive.
I can look in the opposite and look at a
team like San Francisco knowing you know where they are
and what they lost, and the you know they have
a number of draft picks this year. They are armed
(09:48):
with a lot of picks, but I could see them.
They have a lot of comp picks next year as well.
So they're a team that I think has, you know,
the potential to kind of dance around the board a
little bit and get a little bit creative.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I maybe I should be the one that is listening
closer while while you're speaking, because it took me like
a minute in delay to register that you suggested. What
if they surprise everyone they being the Giants and take
Jackson Dart at three? Do you think that's even somewhere
in the scope possibilities?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
No, I mean, I look, I don't think they would
take him at three, but I could see them trading
back if that was their guy. I could see them,
you know, potentially trading back. But you know, this is
a team that's, you know, that's going to be in
the quarterback market, and the two names you hear most
often connected to them are those two. Now it's a
different regime, but I remember I got a lot of
quizzical looks when I said that Daniel Jones had a
(10:39):
chance to be the sixth overall pick that year, and
you know it's where where he ended up going. So
always be prepared to be surprised not a lot of
people saw Mitch Trubisky coming out of left field and
being the Bear's pick up there. So when I'm on
the desk, Greg, I'm prepared for any and all options.
And when teams need quarterbacks, you better be comfortable one
(11:00):
ready to talk on any of them and figure out
how they fit and why they did what they did.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing you on the desk,
and I am hoping for some stunners, like there's too
much consensus.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Makes it fun.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I'm all the draft among all the draft people, and hey,
and maybe it doesn't work out and you do get
Trubisky at two oh man, no one. No one gives
the forty nine ers, by the way, any grief for
passing on Patrick Mahomes, Like they should get a little
bit of grief in that draft for passing on pat
Patrick Mahomes for Solomon Thanas, let's put you on the
clock for the last time. Yeah, for five minutes. This
(11:30):
is where I give you all the hardest questions. All right,
do the Saints draft the quarterback? And if so, who
and where.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I'll say not early, I will go they will take
one later on in the draft. I'll give you let's
go Kyle McCord, wow for the Saints, and let's put
Kyle McCord at let's go. They have two third round picks,
We'll go the second of the third round picks, pick
ninety three. That is a player and a pick. So
(11:59):
there's probably no chance that happens, but why not take
your shirit.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I can't say I know a lot about Kyle McCord,
but I speak for the Saints fan base when I.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Say boo to this, I mean if.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
They come out of this and Derek Carr, who might
have surgery, and Rattler and McCord, no, to me, they're
the team most likely to trade up and take Sanders
or just sit and pick and take Sanders.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
But who knows.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
You've been giving away a lot of good advice and
tidbits on other people's podcasts.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I've noticed it's been a little bit on My raidar.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
On the Ryan Roscilla podcast, you said the Texans are
taking either Tyler Booker, the guard from Alabama or Kelvin Banks,
the tackle from Texas. First of all, why are you
giving other podcasts these these goodies and not our podcasts.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Because it's like you build up the reputation of our
podcast as being a smart podcast, and you know, and
hence some takes. So the reach Ryan's reach is a
little bigger than ours. So we dump some information there
and it's just bait, right, We're just drawing a little
bait and we're trying to reel those fishes on over
to forties and free agents.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Okay, but he doesn't even know our podcast exists. He
keeps mentioning, move the sticks.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And if you're gonna give goodies like that to him,
I'm gonna put you on the spot.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Then give give give us a good team player combo?
You got anything?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Gosh good team player combo? Well, I mean, I don't
think this is rocket science, but Colston Lovelin and the
Chargers makes a lot of sense for a lot of
different reasons there in terms of need, familiarity. Michigan. Jim
Harbaugh to me, that one, uh, that one's is an
easy dot to connect there. You want to see what
else would you like? I would say Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh shoud
(13:42):
or standers potentially.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Okay, Okay, if he gets.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
There is that? What? I just know you want some
kind of a headline.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Now I'll just accept that, and I'll feel like you're
giving you all to us to our podcast. It's not
it's not a situation where you're going out on the
night and you're dressing what's interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
You go to other places, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
It's as they say in journalism school, which I've never been,
don't know for sure, but the answer is only as
good as the question. Greg.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
You know, I've never been to journalism school either. I
think that shows up all right. Out of the following players,
who is the most likely to fall further than expected
in round one? All right, we will Campbell, Assen, Genty
or our guy Mason Graham. So these are premier players
most likely to follow.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
In gat Graham. Yeah, yeah, Graham. It's not universal. I
don't think he's going to fall like outside the top,
you know, ten to twelve picks that would be like
his you know, that would be considered a fall from
where I have him. What is He's like six or
seven on my list, somewhere around there. So that's a
little bit of a fall compared to the other guys,
I think Genty. The closer we get, the more you
(14:46):
talk about connecting dots, that just feels like Jacksonville to me.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Wow, okay, that's another spicy one.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah. So to me, I just think when when Gladstone
comes on there and if he said it or it
was posed to him, is like, is this a statement pick?
And you know, first pick of a new era, and
he didn't, he didn't run away from that, Like yeah,
this kind of sets the tone. And they have everything
that's come out of his mouth and Liam Cohen's mouth,
I just hear like makeup and wiring and you know,
(15:13):
toughness and commitment and you know, and its just like
Ashton Genty's just right there, right in front of your face.
To me, is the third best player in the draft.
I don't think they're committed to ETN long term. To
me is that he's a totally different player, better version
of ETN. And I think you've got to get the
quarterback up and run in to justify the money that
you just paid him. All those reasons together, I'm like,
(15:35):
this all points to Ashton gent.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Okay, Okay, let's speed it up here.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
You're like Belichick when he gets like a special teams question,
then he gives ten minutes on the answer so that
he can't get any more questions, all right, which como
you mentioned gent would you rather have if you were
the Pats. The more I've thought about it, I thought, man,
I would to buy a National genty on the Pats
in this draft. Would you were that rather have the
combo of armand Membu and let's say Luther Burden or
a wide receiver you want to put around there, or
(15:59):
Ashton j E and Ohio State Guard Donovan Jackson if
you were the Patriots, which.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
If you told me I could get genty and Donovan Jackson,
I probably would do that. I don't think you'll get
Donovan Jackson at the top of the second round.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Interesting, that's a little nugget too. Now you're giving him
out all right. Last one most likely to be a
surprise top ten pick Samar Stewart out of A and
M the pass rusher, Nick aman Worri the safety or
Josh Simmons from Ohio State surprise top ten piss.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, and I'll go with I'll go with the EDG
dresser Stewart.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Okay, we did it.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I got it all in oh worried about long answers, Well,
I mean again, all your questions answered and plenty of
time I.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Could have had more, But you did a good job there.
I feel like the heat that I gave you for
the Rosillo podcast performance actually improved you on this one.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
We will be back after the break.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
We're going to talk about some teams going into the
draft we think are just one great draft away from contending,
maybe sooner than people think.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
The countdown is on for the twenty twenty five NFL Draft,
presented by bud Light. Watch all seven rounds across three
days live starting this Thursday with NFL Network Draft coverage
presented by Verizon, also streaming on NFL Plus and on
ESPN ABC and ESPN Deportes. Subscription required for NFL Plus.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yes, we are back on forties and free agents, and
we're talking about what teams are maybe a good draft
week away from contention. And yeah, the Eagles nailed it.
For instance last year they already had a great roster.
But just think of the difference makers they put on
the team in one class, Quindy on Mitchell, Cooper Dezine,
and then Jalb Hunt with a sneaky good Super Bowl
and then you add some special teamers there, so you
(17:47):
can you can really change your team in one draft.
And I'm not thinking any of the teams we're talking
about are Eagles like.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
But I just wanted to make the case.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
For a team that maybe people wouldn't expect that are
a little closer to contingent than you think.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
And I'll go first.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I think the New York Giants actually have the bones
of a team if they could figure out the quarterback position,
which I don't know if that quarterback is going to
be available for them in this draft. But if you
really look at their roster as a whole, Okay, let's
talk about their wide receivers. You have Malik Nighbors. I
think Darius Slayton and Wandel Robinson are good rotational pieces
(18:23):
for them. Maybe you still need another receiver, but you
had some rookies last year that you're going to build around,
Tyrone Tracy and Theo Johnson, a running back, a tight
end who looked like guys. And then, if you know
what I'm talking about, Giants fans out there, their offensive
line for the first six weeks of last season, actually
that was the best offensive line play that they have
gotten in a long time, certainly in the Brian Dabele era,
(18:45):
and actually played a lot better. And yeah, you lose
an all Pro tackle and Andrew Thomas, it doesn't look
the same, and you had injuries the rest of the year.
And then you go back to the defensive side of
the ball, a great defensive line. You get Dexter Lawrence back.
You added a couple pieces in the back end in
terms of Davon Holland and Paul Sanadebo. I think you
can certainly add more in this class. But to me,
they're linebackers. Bobby Okaric like, they have players all around
(19:08):
their roster, and I think if they hit like they
did DJ last year with their picks and add two
three more contributors and I didn't even mention a couple
of guys you know in the secondary last year that
that looked pretty good for them, Drew Phillips and and
I like.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
What they have. The giants to be are not that
far away? Do you agree?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And does all of this not matter if you don't
get quarterback figured out?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, I mean I'm gonna get there. But to me, okay,
how do they do it well? Abdell Carter comes in there. Now,
you fortify a strength, you become a chance to have
a really dominant defensive front, and Dexter, you know, what
he is. He is an incredible player. Now you've got
a rotation of guys you can roll through there. It
will be interesting to see what they do with the
fifth year option with Thibodeau sidebar there, but no abdul Carter.
(19:52):
To me, that jumps up that side of the ball.
This team couldn't score last year. Greg. I mean, and
it's all you know. You can point towards the offensive line, injuries, quarterback,
It's hard to point in any other direction. Feel better
about the offensive line running those guys out there every week,
that that's gonna be functional. Can they just get functional
quarterback play? You know, that's that's gonna be what it
all comes down to. But I do think, yeah, that's
(20:15):
a defensive line that's a nightmare to prepare for, especially
you throw in abdul Carter. So now I think they
are I think they're a candidate to make a jump.
The question is in that division. Man, it's gonna be
hard to go from you know, three win team to
a playoff team. But could this team hover around five
hundred and be in contention. I think that's more than possible.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Man.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I think the ceiling is even a little higher because
I look at other teams that are rebuilding at the
top of the draft, like the Patriots and the Raiders,
and yes, they have the big edge at quarterback, but
to me, they have so many more needs and they
have so many fewer dudes at all the other positions
that when I went through it, and yeah, Tyler Nuban
was the other name at safety who is pretty solid
for them that I like. Is just they have a
(20:55):
lot of answers to me and Jameis Winston and Russell
Wilson at least this will be floor raisers based on
what they got out of quarterback a year ago. And
then if I'm a I'm a Giants fan, I'm hoping,
you know, they can hit on someone and they have
a good quarterback coach in Brian's aims.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
So here's my reservation. Yeah, the two quarterbacks that you
just mentioned just came from organizations that need quarterbacks and
decided they did not want to proceed with those quarterbacks
that you just mentioned. And to make a big leap,
it's just hard to make a gigantic leap when you've
got to play everyone in your division twice. And unless
(21:30):
you are going to shockingly disagree with me, they are
going to have the fourth best quarterback in that division.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
No, you're You're right there. I guess Giants fans know
better than most, though. You can have some okay teams
that go ten and seven and eleven and six and
make the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
He they won a super Bowl. That way, Go ahead, DJ,
You're next.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
No, I like that. I like that one for a team.
I actually went with another team in New York that
I thought could make the jump. Again, this isn't We're
not saying this is the Eagles, but the Jets to
me are a team that I could see making a
little bit of leap. They have a lot of blue players,
like when you just go around and start looking at
like premier players on rosters. Yeah, they have some holes
they need to clean up. They lost a lot of
(22:11):
their secondary. You know, there's one offensive line need that
they have there at right tackle. But man, they've got
a lot of blue chip players, and I think where
they are in this draft, I think they could solve
the right tackle issue right away and that all of
a sudden becomes a really really good young offensive line
with a lot of talent. With Fashanu out there, Vera
Tucker Tipman at center. If they can run all those
(22:33):
guys out there for the entire season, they'll be solid.
The running backs, they're extremely loaded fields. I'm hoping they
cut him loose as a runner. I just think this
team when you look at the collection of players, they're
really good on the defensive line, They've got a premier linebacker,
and then you get Sauce Gardner back up and running.
But you hire a coach with the secondary background. Now
(22:54):
they're a team to me. I know. I feel like
we say this every years, the Jets is a team
to watch. I don't think they're that far away from
being a playoff team. I really don't.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I don't say it every year, but I was going
to say it this year, and this makes me wonder.
Were you looking at the document that we send out
before the show, because this was my second pick.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
I feel like you just cheated me, right, they were
my first. So I wrote down three teams and we
had crossover with one team with the Jets, but the
Jets were my number one team because I was looking
at who takes a big leap and they were the
team that I had taken the biggest leap.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I can't believe how they're viewed right now, like in Vegas,
they're viewed as three wins worse than the Patriots, which
seems absolutely crazy. I might take the Jets in that,
and you're right, maybe they'll get a right tackle right
off the top of armand Membu, although I kind of
hope the Patriots take him.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
That's my hope.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
But just a little bit of juice in terms of
their pass rush and just improved offensive coaching, which isn't
about fixing the roster.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
The offensive line is in better shape, and they bring
in Tanner Engstrom from Detroit, and you hope you can
bring some of that creativity on the offensive side, and
I think they would look.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
A lot better.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Let's how about another team I'm going to throw out
for you, and it it's a team that when I
look at the roster, they certainly need more blue chip players.
It's a different argument than I think the Giants and
the Jets have in that the Jaguars to me, don't
have a lot of true difference makers.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
But you're drafting at five.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You mentioned the new process that's going on there, and
maybe they take Ash and Genty and that's a blue
chipper at running back, And I look at a team
that to me doesn't have a lot of huge holes,
that they're good enough in a lot of spots.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
And I don't like their secondary.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
You got to hit on someone in this draft, but
I think they're a team that's good enough. And I
also look at the schedule and I think who can
pop up and they're in this AFC South that the
out of division schedule isn't too bad either. They weren't
as good as they were in twenty twenty three. I
think they're a little better than people. They weren't as
bad as they looked in twenty twenty four, and I
think maybe it lands here. The jump that people expected
(24:50):
a year ago might happen now under the new coaching staff.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, one of the things that just kind of surprised
you because I think Etn has a good reputation as
a player. This team was who were they twenty eighth
or twenty sixth? My eyes aren't great, twenty sixth in
rushing yards per game? So man, you get you jump
start the offense, You go out and you get Ashton
gent plug him in there. And even if they can
get up to twelfth or thirteenth, think of all the
(25:14):
pressure that's gonna take off of Trevor Lawrence. And I
know you're obviously a big fan as am I, but
Brian Thomas Junior, as great as he was last year,
there's another gear like he can even get better. So
I'm excited to see what that looks like going forward.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I mean, him getting better would be top eight receiver
in the entire He's.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Got that ability he does. There's no hole, there's nothing
he lacks.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I'm with you there.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
And they talked about interior line and improving that position
to help Trevor Lawrence out, and they did it in
free agency. Robert Hainsey, Patrick McCary from the Ravens. Hansey
was from the Bucks, who who Liam Cohen has worked
with before, And yeah, I just I look at that
team they were. I don't think it's the same situation
as the Bills because it's a different coaching staff in
(25:56):
place here. But when you look at the Bills when
they first made the playoffs with John McDermott and it
was Tyrod and then they took a big step back
in year two, but they were still building up what
they wanted to do. I do think this roster is
in better shape. Where now the year, now three years
removed from when they made the playoffs, still look better.
Who else did you write down? So you wrote down
the Jets as a team that could improve.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Who else?
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah? I wrote down the Bears? You know. I just
think I love what they did in free agency, aggressively
looking at that offensive line and getting better there. I
think where they're positioned in the draft, I think they
can get a big time impact player at ten. They
have two second round picks, which means I think, I mean,
I think they've got a chance to You look at
their current roster as it is, which is not bad.
(26:35):
Defense is really talented. They've addressed the offensive line. I
think you can come out of this with a running
back and one of those three picks, like a dynamic runner,
no matter where you decide to take him. With those
three picks, you're going to get an upgrade over what
you're playing with with Swift and then now, okay, we
can get an offensive lineman in there, like you're going
to get three starters, three quality starters added to a
(26:56):
team that has upgraded. The offensive line, has upgrade, did
the play calling and the coordination offensively with one of
the most creative minds in Ben Johnson, Like, I don't
know if a team has has done more like added,
you know, upgraded at so many different spots, both on
the field and on the sideline. Is the Chicago Bears.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I hate to agree with you because maybe do.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
You have them on your list?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
No, no, it was they weren't on my list. Maybe
it's a personal bias. Three straight years going into the
season on NFL Daily and then back on the Around
the NFL podcast, we do this thing where we pick
over runners going to the year, and I thought the
Bears were maybe the most overrated team in the league
three straight years, Like I didn't see the vision. Every
offseason everyone gets excited about the Bears, the fan base.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Does they think it's at this time?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I think it makes more sense than it ever has
before because of the coaching staff.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I agree, because of the.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Coaching staff, because of the almost mistakes that they've built
into the roster. Is Grady Jarra and Dio and Dengbo
both gonna work?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I don't think so. But you look at the drafts
that they've had lately with Girvon Dexter, who's a good
young player and then the pick up that they had
with Montes set like they don't both need to work.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
They have a lot of good players on the both lines.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
And that's kind of where I look for all these teams,
like are you good enough on the offensive and defensive line?
And I think the Bears get over that mark. And
then now you're adding the coach and some of the
sizzle in this draft.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Who is I know you're a fan of I know
you're a fan of good bones on HGTV. You just
strike me as that type of guy, Greg, But that's
what they have. They have, they have bones. They have
good solid structure here to build off of.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I am a cheek bone guy, you know. That's that's
what I like. I mean, I guess who is it?
I'm just saying, who's your third?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
I don't really know where you want me to go
with that, but what's your next what's your next one? That? Yeah, yeah,
I have the Ravens would be the last one. Just
fix the defense and they're the team that's like, that's
the Eagles. Uh comp right? Eagles? Last year? To me,
the secondary was their achilles heel. They kind of fell
apart the year before at the end of the year.
But that was their need and they hammered it in
(28:52):
the draft with those first two picks with Mitchell and
with Cooper dejen they solve their problems in a way.
They went defensively, and there's other changes on the obviously
Saquon coming in and choosing things up a little bit.
But I just look at the Ravens and their pass defense,
and if they can add a corner and a pass
rusher in the draft, that might be enough for them
to get finally get over the hump and get to
(29:13):
a Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, they're in a spot that you want to be,
which is you have the base of a extremely consistent
and explosive, productive offense, and yet you have some areas
on the team that you need to improve. They quietly
had I wouldn't call them rebuilding the last couple of years,
but they had so many changes that they had to
make with the core of that team, and they did
it successfully while still winning a ton of games.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Why right on the fly, you're your old boss.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Is Eric DaCosta and Ozzie Newsom like making it happen?
And I kind of quietly thought, and especially last offseason,
they were almost rebuilding and yet they come out and
they have a great regular season and now just a
couple of pieces to put them over the top.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
The Falcons are maybe the other team.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I would just throw out there where obviously you have
the bones of a good offensive team there, you don't
have a lot of transition, you have continuity on the
offensive side of the ball, and can you just add
a couple of difference makers. The only thing that holds
me back is, like we've been saying this for years,
it doesn't matter who's running this team, whether it's Terry
Fonteau or not, Like you just need a couple difference
(30:11):
makers because I think you have the right defensive coach
to make it happen. So the Falcons would be the
other team. And I don't think they'll necessarily ignore offense.
It's not like it's not like they couldn't add another
offensive lineman get younger.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
There if they really felt like that was the right fit.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
But ultimately it's about defensive difference makers I think for
the top of the draft, and I do don't think
the Falcons are too far away, as they showed last
year with up and down quarterback play, and they weren't
too far away from making the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
I think that's fair. That's a division too. I mean,
Tampa has kind of had a stranglehold on it, but
I feel like it's pretty bunched together there in that division.
So the littlest improvement could make a big difference there.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
All Right, some teams kind of to go negative to
wrap things up here that maybe you would pump the
brakes on. Maybe it's more than just one draft to
improve this team, that the team actually does have a
lot of needs.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Quietly, who would you throw out there to start?
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Well, I would just say Houston, and Houston's a playoff
team last year Houston. I was in the building when
they beat the brakes off the Chargers, and they have
a dominant, dominant front seven and it's secondary. I mean,
the the whole defense is really really good. But they've undergone,
undergone this process and project of revamping an offensive line
that was broken, and I understand the thought press process
(31:29):
behind it, and Laramie Tunzel is a very gifted player,
but I think that was more along the lines of,
you know, okay, is this the is he the right
guy to kind of captain this offensive line to raise
up everyone else's level? And they came to the conclusion
by trading him that he wasn't so there is a
talent drain there when he leaves. You already weren't good there.
They brought in a bunch of guys that I don't
(31:50):
know that the talent overwhelms you. They're they're banking on
kind of a sum is greater than the individual parts,
and I think they'll continue to add to it here
in the draft. But that just seems like, Man, there's
a lot of uneasiness for me with that offensive line,
and it's hard to be a consistent team of a
(32:11):
dominant team when you have those types of question marks.
So the Houston offensive line more so than the Houston team,
if that makes any sense. It's just causing me some reservation.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
It does make sense.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
And yet I have seen teams fix their offensive line quickly,
just from god awful and terrible to average pretty quickly
with coaching and just decent players. And maybe I'm just
an optimist here, but I look at the Texans have
something we know, which is a marauding defense, and one
of the best defensive coaches in the league that has
(32:42):
has the ear of his entire team, and they've got.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
A quarterback that I completely believe in that.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I'm not worried at all about what happened a year
ago that I think is going to be ready to
bounce back. So I'm not agreeing with you on this one.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
I just want to see what happens with the offensive line.
I don't I mean, I love the defense, and to me,
like Demiko Matt Burke, like that's as good of a
combination of guys on the defensive brain trust, and you know,
I love Stroud. I mean Stroud, I've seen it. He's
like he's got some some stone cold killer to him,
like he's uh, he's he's he's legit. But I just, man,
(33:16):
that's that's that offensive line TBD. I'm gonna have a
little more caution and concern there than you are.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Okay, I don't think anything is gonna happen to Jaden
Daniels in year two that happened to c. J. Stroud
in terms of the offensive line just completely collapsing in
front of him. I do think they'll have kind of
a two point zero version of this offense and start
adding new wrinkles. And yet you look at a team historically,
any team that improves as much as the Commanders did
(33:51):
in one year if you look at it statistically, traditionally
takes a step back the next year, and there's many
reasons for that, but there's just not a lot of
young core pieces. And I think Adam Peters did an
incredible job. A year goes making all those one year
contracts for veterans, and a lot of them like Bobby
Wagner are back this year. Zach Ertz like, they can
(34:12):
still get it done this year, and they had a
good draft.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
But when I look.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
At their overall talent level and I compare them to
let's say that Dallas Cowboys and even I'll throw in
the New York Giants in their division, I don't see
a big gap.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Now.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I see a gap in a quarterback that you're excited
about for the next ten years. Of course, but the
expectations are going to be so high. To me, is
the talent base really there for them to be the
runaway second best team in that division?
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I don't necessarily think so.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I still think the Cowboys and the Giants are going
to be harder games in the division for them this year,
and some of their young players, if they can hit
on another draft, sure like that will be a great
base to build off of.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
But that's tough. So I think they might be a
little further away than commanders fans want to admit.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Now we've talked about this a little bit, but to me, look,
they did. They accomplished two things to put the record
in the run that they went on a side. They
changed the quarterback, they changed the culture they get on
both that made a drastic difference. But it doesn't change
the fact that when you look at before they got
there and twenty three their first round pick was Emmanuel Forbes,
and twenty two it was Johan Dotson, and twenty one
it was jam and Davis, in twenty twenty it was
(35:16):
Chase Young. None of those guys there. So the nucleus
of what should be your young core guys they arrived
that didn't exist. They band aidd the crud out of
that group last year with all these one year deals,
and they made it work and it all kind of
clicked and it all came together. That to me is
as a's a tight rope to walk that way and
(35:37):
try and get to the finish line when you're having
to piece this thing together. And it's no fault of
their own. They did a great job last year, but
they're going to need a couple drafts to accumulate before
you know, they can get out of this little rut
that they're in. In terms of band aids, they're having
a band aid a lot of stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I think they told a lot of what they did
in free agency because to me, it could work out
great and then they'll be where their fans want them
to be. To me, Deebo Samuel is a boomer bus
pick up. Javon Kinlaw is a boomer bus pickup. Marshall Lattimore,
just based on the amount of time that he's missed
over the last few years, is a boomer bus pickup.
And so if you hit three booms there, you're looking great.
(36:13):
But it wouldn't shock me if you run into some
struggles with some of those pickups. Do you have another
team that you would throw out there?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
You know, the one team? And this is an interesting
one because I think this team's going to be a
playoff team. They were a playoff team last year. I
think they're really good. Is green Bay like I to me,
the thing that green Bay needs there, I don't see
how they're going to acquire They got to draft their
butts off, then maybe they can. They can do it.
But Greg, when I look at their team, I see
so many good players, Like, they've got a lot of
(36:42):
good players. Good players raise the floor, great players raise
the ceiling, and I just I don't know how many
like true blue guys they have, like true like elite
top five at their position players. I think got a
lot a lot of good guys. They just need somebody
that when it's third down, you're like, Okay, gosh, this
is where the ball's going and luck stopping this guy.
I don't think they have that player. When you go
(37:03):
to the other side of the ball and it's you know,
who's gonna who's gonna dominate? Who do you have to
game plan against on their defense, I think, well, they
got a lot of good players. I don't know there's
one guy that we need to build our game plan around.
So to me, that's my that's my only issue there.
And I'm saying this, they're going to be a playoff team.
They're well coached, they're well run. I just don't know
when you stack them up with the other elite teams
(37:23):
in the league, if they have as many of those
marquee like Premier Premier guys and what you win the
way that they've won. I don't think they're in position,
you know, draft wise, to get one unless they just
knock it out of the park.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
See what you should do if our social person is
watching so that we start getting the great clips is
skip all that part about you thinking that they were
a playoff team again and a lot of good players and.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Just go to the context and.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
And I think Packerstans will be upset.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Please don't do that.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
I mean, because this is a team that went into
last year, is one of the favorites to represent the NFC,
so there there's high expectation there. But you're absolutely right
that the the wide receiver position, maybe even the offensive line,
heck even Jordan Love. Maybe they are all representative of
really good players, but where are the standouts and the
defense stars hasn't really performed to the level of the
(38:15):
talent that was there. I think they could be better
in year two, but yeah, they need to start hitting
on some guys like Jayra Alexander. He was not a
high pick. He was Guda Kun's first ever Pickie.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Cooper Adrian Cooper is the one that I think has
a chance to elevate into that category. Is someone you
have to worry about in game plan.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Around and you know what you don't want and is
to be paying guys a lot of money that aren't
premier players. And Kenny Clark last year did not play
like a premier player. He has been throughout his career,
but last year did not. Alexander, who is still on
the roster, and he's another name I could add to
the potential trades, hasn't played because he hasn't been on
the field like a premier player. Rassan Gary has been
(38:55):
up and down. I think it was partly because he
was coming off the injury last year. Maybe it was
a fit Wyatt is a first round pick who again
is a good player. So you're putting a lot of
resources Kuai Walker into this defensive side of the ball
and you're not getting elite elite production.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
All right, I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
It's going to be such a plot twist when the
social team just clips off what you just did and
sends that out.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Now, I've just run myself into trouble.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
I actually think this next one would be would be
one that they would like to I mean the category
was team to pump the brakes on. So we're like
putting ourselves in a box here where you almost need
to be negative. But I would just make the point
that the Cincinnati Bengals have had Joe Burrow and t
Higgins and Jamar Chase. It's so exciting that they could
(39:39):
sign them all long term and that got everyone in
Cincinnati getting over their worst fears that they weren't going
to do it. They've had them on the field the
last couple of years, not all the time, but when
Joe Burrow was starting DJ they are fourteen and thirteen
over a two year span, and so I look at
their roster right now. They haven't really addressed the defense
at all. You're suddenly saying, like getting rid of lou
(40:01):
An Rouma, who's been a good coordinator overall, is somehow
going to fix everything. And then we're also back to
where we were a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
I look at that.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Interior offensive line and they're still an issue.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
And so.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I hate to bring up bad memories when you're the Bengals,
but there are certain organizations that you look at and
you think like they should have been better over the
last two years with Joe Burrow, and so I think
they maybe are a little further away than people think
when you look at the overall roster and you look
in Vegas and they are tied right now for the
best team in the league in terms of predicted over underwins,
(40:34):
right with the Ravens and the Chiefs and the Eagles,
and they definitely aren't in that category. To me, I
think they really need a good draft here.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
DJ Well, I'm I'm a fan of everything lou and
Rumo is accomplished in what he's done as a coach,
and I think he's well respected. But the last year, Greg,
you know, you mentioned when you have Burrow and you
have Higgins and you have Jamar Chase and they're not
winning ballgames. And you know, I look at their schedule
last year. They scored thirty three and lost to one Washington.
They scored thirty eight and lost to Baltimore. They scored
(41:03):
thirty four, lost to Baltimore again. They scored thirty eight
and lost to Pittsburgh. Like that is a pretty simple
defensive problem that they have. And that's why in this draft,
you know, offensive players need not apply. Just take the
entire defensive side of the ball, and you've got to
upgrade it there. Offensively, they're going to be fine. They've
got this group together. They're going to score points. They
(41:24):
can't continue to lose games. When you're scoring over thirty
points in the league, you just can't do it right.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
But when you look at the depth chart, it's all
the same guys, Like I hope Trey Hendrickson is still there.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
If you trade him away, you're worried.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I really thought they would add some speed at the
linebacker position. Instead it's still Jermaine Pratt who wanted out
of there, Logan Wilson, and Orn Burk's not a lot
of speed there. And then you look at the secondary,
it's a lot of guys that they have invested on defense.
The idea was to turn over this defense, but they
haven't all necessarily panned out. DJ Turner, Jordan Battle, Cam Taylor,
Britt Dax Hill. Those are all guys who are taken
(41:57):
high in the secondary. I wouldn't say balance. They're disappointing players,
but they're not, you know, being part of a defense
that's really impacted change. And then at defensive tackle, even
at defensive end, like to me, on paper, it's a
pretty lackluster defense. So you're right, they know where they
need to focus, but they haven't necessarily shown that they
can fix it. I'm just I'm just holding up the
(42:18):
caution because my friend, you know, I'm in the Chris
Westling podcast studio, like Phil Westling, Nick Westling, they all
think the Bengals are going to be right back. There
is an expectation in Cincinnati that, of course they're Super
Bowl contenders. They have Joe Burrow, and I get that,
and I'm not sure I totally see the vision when
you look at the roster.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Well, they have a new voice defensively, can that help
you a little bit? Maybe that just gets something out
of some other players, just having a new voice in there.
And then to me, this draft, I mean, hey, Duke,
when it's time to knock this thing out of the
park and go get three four guys that can step
on the field and help you out.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Do you have any other teams you want to throw
out there or do you want.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
To No, I mean you probably have ten teams that
you want to pump the brakes on because you're you're
more negative than I am. But that's all I could
come up with. And literally the ones I came up with,
I would make an argument all three of them are
going to be playoff teams next year. So I'm just
like pumping super Well, you're you're just crucifying Johnny.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
And you're mister positive. You got to keep all these
relationships going.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
You can't say anything too negative because you're going to
see those guys.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
They don't care about me. They don't even know who
I am, so I can say whatever whatever we want.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Dolphins are another one, But I don't think anyone's really
too high on the Dolphins.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Okay, yeah, can we if we're gonna if we're gonna
end this thing, and we end this on a positive note,
I feel like this is Draft week. I'm excited. It's
like my Christmas and Greg's just sitting here telling me
how terrible the world is.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
No, you are.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
It is hope season, and so I don't want to
recognize the fact that, like, not all these prospects are
going to work out, but they're all beautiful.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Right now?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Do you get nervous by the way, Like Draft night,
You've done it quite a bit, it's about to start.
You've done all this homework for a year basically on
these players. Does DJ still get any nervous or are
you are you dead inside?
Speaker 3 (43:57):
No, they're the crowd. When you get the energy from
the crowd, so that gives you some nerves. Like when
we first start and the draft gets going and it's
like a it's a rhythm to it. You know, nobody
cares about this, but anyways, you're sitting on the desk,
you get all the energy and your heart starts racing
and it's fun. It's it's fun to be nervous because
I mean, you're doing something big and and and then
it takes about three or four picks. And like behind
(44:19):
the scenes. Rich told me when I my first year
on the main desk, which I think was in Philadelphia
twenty seventeen, maybe somewhere around there, where I had gone
from the kid's table to the adult table to sit
there with those guys, and he said, he said, like, hey,
don't try and be funny for like the first couppix
or something like that, like just say just relax, like
(44:41):
just let the draft kind of we'll get into a rhythm.
We'll get into a flow and then we can do
our thing and we have a good chemistry. We have
a blast. But that's what I always remember is is
great advice from a veteran of like, hey, let the
draft kind of settle in a little bit. We'll get
comfortable and then we'll get in a rhythm and then
off we go.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Well, I hate to think that this is the kids table,
but we wish you well.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
We're going no, no, we're gonna be watching. This is
like the cousins. This is like the cousins table. We're
outside on the patio by the pool, but.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
We have we have more fun than with all the
parents around.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
We will be back for one more forties and free
agents before this little mini series wraps up. So we'll
be wrapping up the draft next week. Looking forward to that.
Good luck, DJ, Well, I'll be watched.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
Thanks buddy. Appreciation
Welcome to Forties and Free Agents.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Greg Rosenthal joined by my friend Daniel Jeremiah for
the last time before the NFL Draft. DJ, you have
successfully been a guest on every single football podcast in America.
I feel like now it's time you don't have to
do that anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
You're graduating. Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, I'm I'm excited to get the actual draft here.
But I did notice, you know, a lot of a
lot of media stuff, and they're all dropped in the
same day, to the point where I was like, man,
maybe I should wardrobe change on these shows. So then
you're popping up on people's timeline. It feels like it's
something totally new and fresh.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
No one, No one watches or listens to you for
your wardrobe. So it's fine, DJA, you're we're going to
go through for the very last time.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Not you could have.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Probably stopped with the watches or listens and then just
left the rest.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Now. I mean, Forties and Free Agents is a hit.
I don't know if you know.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We might we might have to do this past season,
but we got one more before the draft, and we
do have one more after the draft. So if you're listening,
this is not our last one, but I do feel
like we've been on a journey here together. And as
we wrap up later in the show, we'll look at
some teams we think maybe our only one good draft
away that might surprise you from really mattering some teams,
maybe to just you know, pump the brakes on a
(01:19):
little bit. But before we get into draft week, I guess,
now that you've been through the process, you've watched every
single player, you have decided to make a change. Your
top one hundred and fifty prospects list is out, and
Travis Hunter is going to be the guy when you
look back years from now, is number one? Why the
(01:40):
move at the last minute over Abdull Carter?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, it's kind of a process of getting there. I
had the same grades on Carter and on Hunter, and
I had Carter from the jumps as the number one guy,
And part of that's just a core belief in building
front to back right. It's a pass rusher. It's more
of a premium position than someone who plays on the perimeter.
But there's also the unique aspect of Travis Hunter and
(02:04):
all that he brings and the chance to play, you know,
on both sides of the ball. At least to major
and minor and the impact that he brings. And I'd
been I'd been toying with it of like gosh, do
I do that? And then you know, you kind of
learned more and more about Hunter. To be honest, it
was more learning about Hunter the person. Not a knock
on Abdol Carter, but just the wiring of Hunter is
so off the charts, and that was a big factor
(02:28):
in it. But my I can tell you the moment
it happened, like I guess, you know, the moment that
I decided to make the change. As we were covering
the Colorado Pro Day and he was, you know, running
around at the very end of the pro day. There's
a close up shot of him and he didn't have
a beat of sweat on him, and I was like,
that was just like I don't know why it's such.
It seems like such a small and significant thing. But
I was just sitting there going like, this guy is
(02:49):
a cyborg. Like he's got an endless gas tank, he
does not get tired. Maybe he really can pull this off,
or at least you know, he's going to you know,
be a full time player. In my opinion, on offense,
and you're gonna be able to use him maybe more
than I would have even anticipated. On defense. Some guys
are just a little a little different. So I was
I was leaning, leaning, leaning, and the dumbest of all things,
that little close up shot. I was like, that was
(03:10):
the last little nudge I needed. I was like, I
just do it.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
There is something to that.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Whenever, like Roger Federer was winning some long five set
match against Rafiel and Loadani just looked like he had
just woken up like that, that's true greatness. I thought
maybe the moment you you changed your.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Mind though, was on our last show.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I hate to bring this up, but you know I
was pushing you, saying, how can you not have Travis
Hunter number one?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Overall?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
History will not look back on you fondly? And here
we are next show and there's a move. So did
I have anything to do with it?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Here? Well, I feel like this is maybe I don't
listen to you great because I feel like I'm hearing
this for the first time. So yeah, maybe I should
just start listening more. Maybe that's the lesson in this
whole thing. I just think when Greg talks, I just
you know, look at my notes. What else have I
got to talk about. Maybe I'm just not listening to
you as the point, right.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, I think that that would be a coach coaching
point if you get any of those emails from our
talent coach, you know, maybe listen a little bit more. Okay,
we've gotten to the end of this process, and yeah,
I'm with you. Hunter is just he's just so special,
So how can you not put them number one? But
Carter's a strong number two. I guess as we get
to the end of the process, kind of your general
(04:17):
impressions of this draft class as you went through it
the last like three months and we're at this point,
how has the draft.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Changed to you? Like, what stands out the most to you?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Well, to me, I feel like there's you know, a
couple takeaways. Number One, cam Ward to me is the
clear number one quarterback, So you start there put him
in that class. And then I feel like, in my opinion,
there's six guys, you know, six guys who I feel
pretty confident about. In other words, I feel like there's
a high ceiling there. I feel like there's a high floor.
I feel like there's little variants. I feel like I
(04:50):
know with who these guys and what these guys are.
So for me, that's that you get a couple tight
ends in that six with Warren and Lovelin, you get
gent the running back in there, the two the we've mentioned,
you know, in terms of the very top of the list,
with Hunter and with Carter, and then your favorite player
in the draft, Mason Graham would be in there as well.
So that group right there, Jalen Carter, I guess was that.
(05:13):
I don't know if I said him, but that's that
collection of players. To me, that's the group that's the core.
And then after that, really Greg, there's not much difference
like the tenth guy, the you know, I've been using
Quinchawn Judkins as an example, like he's in the early
thirties for me, but grade wise it's tough to differentiate
him between the guys who will be you know, eleven, twelve,
(05:34):
thirteen on the list.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
And I certainly don't need to tell you this, but
I'm not the only one that would disagree with you
on that group, even I think more than other classes.
Maybe it's a list of four or five and it
doesn't have grammar. Some people have a different defensive player
in instead of Carter and it's why it's it's just
fascinating where after these first few picks, it just seems
like a grab bag, which is exciting to me. And
(05:57):
so that makes me think where you think the inflection
point is in.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
The first round?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And there's probably more than one answer to this. But
after listening to Andrew Berry the Browns GM speak on
Thursday about Travis Hunter, and you know he's comparing him
to Show Hey and that they have a vision that
he's more receiver than cornerback. But you take away the
Show Hey like special nature to him. I'm just thinking
(06:24):
they're gonna do the thing that makes the most sense
for them to do, which is take Travis Hunter. So
I really do feel like I know our NFL network
executives wouldn't like this. There's not a lot of mystery
to me of the first two picks. Do you disagree
with that, and if so, where do you think the
big inflection point is in this draft?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah? I don't know. You know, with Travis Hunter, if
he needs to have that box of all thirty two
hats next to him, I think he could probably start.
I guess they don't crease hats anymore, right, that's probably
showing my age, but I would probably be creasing that
that Cleveland Brown's had and making that thing nice and
snug and comfortable for draft night. That feels like the
way it's going. So you mentioned inflection points, Well, inflection
(07:01):
points to me are where there could be you know,
intriguer movement and the things that draw both are the
quarterback positions. So the inflection points for me and this
draft start at three. Do the Giants take one? Do
they take Shador? Do they you know, do they shock
everyone they take Jackson Dart or do they just take
you know, the best available player that's staring them right
(07:21):
in the face in Abdul Carter. I think that's the
way that they go. But that's still at least the
first thing you know that we don't know in this
draft starts at number three, and then I get to
nine with New Orleans, you know, the Derek Carr news
and are they comfortable with Rattler? Are they going to
potentially be a quarterback spot? The fact that they're deemed
as a potential quarterback spot, does that mean you know,
(07:43):
a team like Pittsburgh at twenty one, which is another
inflection point, are they are they trying to get ahead
of New Orleans? Are they that desperate to do that? So,
like to me three nine twenty one, those neighborhoods are
gonna be the ones with the most attention on them.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Okay, so you're talking about potential trades, potential trade ups.
If you look at this class as being one where
everyone's got a little different opinions, and then you throw
in you mentioned the Derek Carr situation. There's a lot
of potential veterans that could be traded over the three days.
Just a quick list, Jalen Ramsey, Dallas Godder, Mark Andrews,
(08:19):
Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins. And maybe those guys aren't affecting
the top of the draft. Tyreek Hill, I could even
throw out there, Trey Hendrickson.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Who knows.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
When you look at those two things combined, the veterans
and then maybe not a lot of consensus on a
lot of these players. Do you think that's going to
be more trades less trades? Maybe you don't get the
full value of the draft chart, Like, how do you
think that actually plays out on Draft night?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I don't know, to be honest with you, and I
can you know, I can give you different examples of
different teams. I do know that in talking to a
bunch of teams in trade back scenarios, they're interested in
collecting future picks, so that's something they're interested in. I
think there's a lot of people that would love to
put the car in reverse, but I can't find a
lot of people that want to put the car and
(09:06):
drive in terms of moving up for guys, so you
never know for sure on that. There's teams that you
could say, like Philadelphia is a team to me who
has an army of picks next year. I think they
have twelve picks next year, So I don't know that
all their picks this year would even make their roster
because of how deep and talented this team is, So
(09:27):
I could see them packaging some picks later on in
this draft, and if they identified or targeted a player
along the line of scrimmage that they liked, I could
see them moving up a little bit and being aggressive.
I can look in the opposite and look at a
team like San Francisco knowing you know where they are
and what they lost, and the you know they have
a number of draft picks this year. They are armed
(09:48):
with a lot of picks, but I could see them.
They have a lot of comp picks next year as well.
So they're a team that I think has, you know,
the potential to kind of dance around the board a
little bit and get a little bit creative.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I maybe I should be the one that is listening
closer while while you're speaking, because it took me like
a minute in delay to register that you suggested. What
if they surprise everyone they being the Giants and take
Jackson Dart at three? Do you think that's even somewhere
in the scope possibilities?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
No, I mean, I look, I don't think they would
take him at three, but I could see them trading
back if that was their guy. I could see them,
you know, potentially trading back. But you know, this is
a team that's, you know, that's going to be in
the quarterback market, and the two names you hear most
often connected to them are those two. Now it's a
different regime, but I remember I got a lot of
quizzical looks when I said that Daniel Jones had a
(10:39):
chance to be the sixth overall pick that year, and
you know it's where where he ended up going. So
always be prepared to be surprised not a lot of
people saw Mitch Trubisky coming out of left field and
being the Bear's pick up there. So when I'm on
the desk, Greg, I'm prepared for any and all options.
And when teams need quarterbacks, you better be comfortable one
(11:00):
ready to talk on any of them and figure out
how they fit and why they did what they did.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing you on the desk,
and I am hoping for some stunners, like there's too
much consensus.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Makes it fun.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I'm all the draft among all the draft people, and hey,
and maybe it doesn't work out and you do get
Trubisky at two oh man, no one. No one gives
the forty nine ers, by the way, any grief for
passing on Patrick Mahomes, Like they should get a little
bit of grief in that draft for passing on pat
Patrick Mahomes for Solomon Thanas, let's put you on the
clock for the last time. Yeah, for five minutes. This
(11:30):
is where I give you all the hardest questions. All right,
do the Saints draft the quarterback? And if so, who
and where.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I'll say not early, I will go they will take
one later on in the draft. I'll give you let's
go Kyle McCord, wow for the Saints, and let's put
Kyle McCord at let's go. They have two third round picks,
We'll go the second of the third round picks, pick
ninety three. That is a player and a pick. So
(11:59):
there's probably no chance that happens, but why not take
your shirit.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I can't say I know a lot about Kyle McCord,
but I speak for the Saints fan base when I.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Say boo to this, I mean if.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
They come out of this and Derek Carr, who might
have surgery, and Rattler and McCord, no, to me, they're
the team most likely to trade up and take Sanders
or just sit and pick and take Sanders.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
But who knows.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
You've been giving away a lot of good advice and
tidbits on other people's podcasts.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I've noticed it's been a little bit on My raidar.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
On the Ryan Roscilla podcast, you said the Texans are
taking either Tyler Booker, the guard from Alabama or Kelvin Banks,
the tackle from Texas. First of all, why are you
giving other podcasts these these goodies and not our podcasts.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Because it's like you build up the reputation of our
podcast as being a smart podcast, and you know, and
hence some takes. So the reach Ryan's reach is a
little bigger than ours. So we dump some information there
and it's just bait, right, We're just drawing a little
bait and we're trying to reel those fishes on over
to forties and free agents.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Okay, but he doesn't even know our podcast exists. He
keeps mentioning, move the sticks.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And if you're gonna give goodies like that to him,
I'm gonna put you on the spot.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Then give give give us a good team player combo?
You got anything?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Gosh good team player combo? Well, I mean, I don't
think this is rocket science, but Colston Lovelin and the
Chargers makes a lot of sense for a lot of
different reasons there in terms of need, familiarity. Michigan. Jim
Harbaugh to me, that one, uh, that one's is an
easy dot to connect there. You want to see what
else would you like? I would say Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh shoud
(13:42):
or standers potentially.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Okay, Okay, if he gets.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
There is that? What? I just know you want some
kind of a headline.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Now I'll just accept that, and I'll feel like you're
giving you all to us to our podcast. It's not
it's not a situation where you're going out on the
night and you're dressing what's interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
You go to other places, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
It's as they say in journalism school, which I've never been,
don't know for sure, but the answer is only as
good as the question. Greg.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
You know, I've never been to journalism school either. I
think that shows up all right. Out of the following players,
who is the most likely to fall further than expected
in round one? All right, we will Campbell, Assen, Genty
or our guy Mason Graham. So these are premier players
most likely to follow.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
In gat Graham. Yeah, yeah, Graham. It's not universal. I
don't think he's going to fall like outside the top,
you know, ten to twelve picks that would be like
his you know, that would be considered a fall from
where I have him. What is He's like six or
seven on my list, somewhere around there. So that's a
little bit of a fall compared to the other guys,
I think Genty. The closer we get, the more you
(14:46):
talk about connecting dots, that just feels like Jacksonville to me.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Wow, okay, that's another spicy one.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah. So to me, I just think when when Gladstone
comes on there and if he said it or it
was posed to him, is like, is this a statement pick?
And you know, first pick of a new era, and
he didn't, he didn't run away from that, Like yeah,
this kind of sets the tone. And they have everything
that's come out of his mouth and Liam Cohen's mouth,
I just hear like makeup and wiring and you know,
(15:13):
toughness and commitment and you know, and its just like
Ashton Genty's just right there, right in front of your face.
To me, is the third best player in the draft.
I don't think they're committed to ETN long term. To
me is that he's a totally different player, better version
of ETN. And I think you've got to get the
quarterback up and run in to justify the money that
you just paid him. All those reasons together, I'm like,
(15:35):
this all points to Ashton gent.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Okay, Okay, let's speed it up here.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
You're like Belichick when he gets like a special teams question,
then he gives ten minutes on the answer so that
he can't get any more questions, all right, which como
you mentioned gent would you rather have if you were
the Pats. The more I've thought about it, I thought, man,
I would to buy a National genty on the Pats
in this draft. Would you were that rather have the
combo of armand Membu and let's say Luther Burden or
a wide receiver you want to put around there, or
(15:59):
Ashton j E and Ohio State Guard Donovan Jackson if
you were the Patriots, which.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
If you told me I could get genty and Donovan Jackson,
I probably would do that. I don't think you'll get
Donovan Jackson at the top of the second round.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Interesting, that's a little nugget too. Now you're giving him
out all right. Last one most likely to be a
surprise top ten pick Samar Stewart out of A and
M the pass rusher, Nick aman Worri the safety or
Josh Simmons from Ohio State surprise top ten piss.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, and I'll go with I'll go with the EDG
dresser Stewart.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Okay, we did it.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I got it all in oh worried about long answers, Well,
I mean again, all your questions answered and plenty of
time I.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Could have had more, But you did a good job there.
I feel like the heat that I gave you for
the Rosillo podcast performance actually improved you on this one.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
We will be back after the break.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
We're going to talk about some teams going into the
draft we think are just one great draft away from contending,
maybe sooner than people think.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
The countdown is on for the twenty twenty five NFL Draft,
presented by bud Light. Watch all seven rounds across three
days live starting this Thursday with NFL Network Draft coverage
presented by Verizon, also streaming on NFL Plus and on
ESPN ABC and ESPN Deportes. Subscription required for NFL Plus.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yes, we are back on forties and free agents, and
we're talking about what teams are maybe a good draft
week away from contention. And yeah, the Eagles nailed it.
For instance last year they already had a great roster.
But just think of the difference makers they put on
the team in one class, Quindy on Mitchell, Cooper Dezine,
and then Jalb Hunt with a sneaky good Super Bowl
and then you add some special teamers there, so you
(17:47):
can you can really change your team in one draft.
And I'm not thinking any of the teams we're talking
about are Eagles like.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
But I just wanted to make the case.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
For a team that maybe people wouldn't expect that are
a little closer to contingent than you think.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
And I'll go first.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I think the New York Giants actually have the bones
of a team if they could figure out the quarterback position,
which I don't know if that quarterback is going to
be available for them in this draft. But if you
really look at their roster as a whole, Okay, let's
talk about their wide receivers. You have Malik Nighbors. I
think Darius Slayton and Wandel Robinson are good rotational pieces
(18:23):
for them. Maybe you still need another receiver, but you
had some rookies last year that you're going to build around,
Tyrone Tracy and Theo Johnson, a running back, a tight
end who looked like guys. And then, if you know
what I'm talking about, Giants fans out there, their offensive
line for the first six weeks of last season, actually
that was the best offensive line play that they have
gotten in a long time, certainly in the Brian Dabele era,
(18:45):
and actually played a lot better. And yeah, you lose
an all Pro tackle and Andrew Thomas, it doesn't look
the same, and you had injuries the rest of the year.
And then you go back to the defensive side of
the ball, a great defensive line. You get Dexter Lawrence back.
You added a couple pieces in the back end in
terms of Davon Holland and Paul Sanadebo. I think you
can certainly add more in this class. But to me,
they're linebackers. Bobby Okaric like, they have players all around
(19:08):
their roster, and I think if they hit like they
did DJ last year with their picks and add two
three more contributors and I didn't even mention a couple
of guys you know in the secondary last year that
that looked pretty good for them, Drew Phillips and and
I like.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
What they have. The giants to be are not that
far away? Do you agree?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And does all of this not matter if you don't
get quarterback figured out?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, I mean I'm gonna get there. But to me, okay,
how do they do it well? Abdell Carter comes in there. Now,
you fortify a strength, you become a chance to have
a really dominant defensive front, and Dexter, you know, what
he is. He is an incredible player. Now you've got
a rotation of guys you can roll through there. It
will be interesting to see what they do with the
fifth year option with Thibodeau sidebar there, but no abdul Carter.
(19:52):
To me, that jumps up that side of the ball.
This team couldn't score last year. Greg. I mean, and
it's all you know. You can point towards the offensive line, injuries, quarterback,
It's hard to point in any other direction. Feel better
about the offensive line running those guys out there every week,
that that's gonna be functional. Can they just get functional
quarterback play? You know, that's that's gonna be what it
all comes down to. But I do think, yeah, that's
(20:15):
a defensive line that's a nightmare to prepare for, especially
you throw in abdul Carter. So now I think they
are I think they're a candidate to make a jump.
The question is in that division. Man, it's gonna be
hard to go from you know, three win team to
a playoff team. But could this team hover around five
hundred and be in contention. I think that's more than possible.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Man.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I think the ceiling is even a little higher because
I look at other teams that are rebuilding at the
top of the draft, like the Patriots and the Raiders,
and yes, they have the big edge at quarterback, but
to me, they have so many more needs and they
have so many fewer dudes at all the other positions
that when I went through it, and yeah, Tyler Nuban
was the other name at safety who is pretty solid
for them that I like. Is just they have a
(20:55):
lot of answers to me and Jameis Winston and Russell
Wilson at least this will be floor raisers based on
what they got out of quarterback a year ago. And
then if I'm a I'm a Giants fan, I'm hoping,
you know, they can hit on someone and they have
a good quarterback coach in Brian's aims.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
So here's my reservation. Yeah, the two quarterbacks that you
just mentioned just came from organizations that need quarterbacks and
decided they did not want to proceed with those quarterbacks
that you just mentioned. And to make a big leap,
it's just hard to make a gigantic leap when you've
got to play everyone in your division twice. And unless
(21:30):
you are going to shockingly disagree with me, they are
going to have the fourth best quarterback in that division.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
No, you're You're right there. I guess Giants fans know
better than most, though. You can have some okay teams
that go ten and seven and eleven and six and
make the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
He they won a super Bowl. That way, Go ahead, DJ,
You're next.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
No, I like that. I like that one for a team.
I actually went with another team in New York that
I thought could make the jump. Again, this isn't We're
not saying this is the Eagles, but the Jets to
me are a team that I could see making a
little bit of leap. They have a lot of blue players,
like when you just go around and start looking at
like premier players on rosters. Yeah, they have some holes
they need to clean up. They lost a lot of
(22:11):
their secondary. You know, there's one offensive line need that
they have there at right tackle. But man, they've got
a lot of blue chip players, and I think where
they are in this draft, I think they could solve
the right tackle issue right away and that all of
a sudden becomes a really really good young offensive line
with a lot of talent. With Fashanu out there, Vera
Tucker Tipman at center. If they can run all those
(22:33):
guys out there for the entire season, they'll be solid.
The running backs, they're extremely loaded fields. I'm hoping they
cut him loose as a runner. I just think this
team when you look at the collection of players, they're
really good on the defensive line, They've got a premier linebacker,
and then you get Sauce Gardner back up and running.
But you hire a coach with the secondary background. Now
(22:54):
they're a team to me. I know. I feel like
we say this every years, the Jets is a team
to watch. I don't think they're that far away from
being a playoff team. I really don't.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I don't say it every year, but I was going
to say it this year, and this makes me wonder.
Were you looking at the document that we send out
before the show, because this was my second pick.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
I feel like you just cheated me, right, they were
my first. So I wrote down three teams and we
had crossover with one team with the Jets, but the
Jets were my number one team because I was looking
at who takes a big leap and they were the
team that I had taken the biggest leap.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I can't believe how they're viewed right now, like in Vegas,
they're viewed as three wins worse than the Patriots, which
seems absolutely crazy. I might take the Jets in that,
and you're right, maybe they'll get a right tackle right
off the top of armand Membu, although I kind of
hope the Patriots take him.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
That's my hope.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
But just a little bit of juice in terms of
their pass rush and just improved offensive coaching, which isn't
about fixing the roster.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
The offensive line is in better shape, and they bring
in Tanner Engstrom from Detroit, and you hope you can
bring some of that creativity on the offensive side, and
I think they would look.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
A lot better.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Let's how about another team I'm going to throw out
for you, and it it's a team that when I
look at the roster, they certainly need more blue chip players.
It's a different argument than I think the Giants and
the Jets have in that the Jaguars to me, don't
have a lot of true difference makers.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
But you're drafting at five.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You mentioned the new process that's going on there, and
maybe they take Ash and Genty and that's a blue
chipper at running back, And I look at a team
that to me doesn't have a lot of huge holes,
that they're good enough in a lot of spots.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
And I don't like their secondary.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
You got to hit on someone in this draft, but
I think they're a team that's good enough. And I
also look at the schedule and I think who can
pop up and they're in this AFC South that the
out of division schedule isn't too bad either. They weren't
as good as they were in twenty twenty three. I
think they're a little better than people. They weren't as
bad as they looked in twenty twenty four, and I
think maybe it lands here. The jump that people expected
(24:50):
a year ago might happen now under the new coaching staff.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, one of the things that just kind of surprised
you because I think Etn has a good reputation as
a player. This team was who were they twenty eighth
or twenty sixth? My eyes aren't great, twenty sixth in
rushing yards per game? So man, you get you jump
start the offense, You go out and you get Ashton
gent plug him in there. And even if they can
get up to twelfth or thirteenth, think of all the
(25:14):
pressure that's gonna take off of Trevor Lawrence. And I
know you're obviously a big fan as am I, but
Brian Thomas Junior, as great as he was last year,
there's another gear like he can even get better. So
I'm excited to see what that looks like going forward.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I mean, him getting better would be top eight receiver
in the entire He's.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Got that ability he does. There's no hole, there's nothing
he lacks.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I'm with you there.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
And they talked about interior line and improving that position
to help Trevor Lawrence out, and they did it in
free agency. Robert Hainsey, Patrick McCary from the Ravens. Hansey
was from the Bucks, who who Liam Cohen has worked
with before, And yeah, I just I look at that
team they were. I don't think it's the same situation
as the Bills because it's a different coaching staff in
(25:56):
place here. But when you look at the Bills when
they first made the playoffs with John McDermott and it
was Tyrod and then they took a big step back
in year two, but they were still building up what
they wanted to do. I do think this roster is
in better shape. Where now the year, now three years
removed from when they made the playoffs, still look better.
Who else did you write down? So you wrote down
the Jets as a team that could improve.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Who else?
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah? I wrote down the Bears? You know. I just
think I love what they did in free agency, aggressively
looking at that offensive line and getting better there. I
think where they're positioned in the draft, I think they
can get a big time impact player at ten. They
have two second round picks, which means I think, I mean,
I think they've got a chance to You look at
their current roster as it is, which is not bad.
(26:35):
Defense is really talented. They've addressed the offensive line. I
think you can come out of this with a running
back and one of those three picks, like a dynamic runner,
no matter where you decide to take him. With those
three picks, you're going to get an upgrade over what
you're playing with with Swift and then now, okay, we
can get an offensive lineman in there, like you're going
to get three starters, three quality starters added to a
(26:56):
team that has upgraded. The offensive line, has upgrade, did
the play calling and the coordination offensively with one of
the most creative minds in Ben Johnson, Like, I don't
know if a team has has done more like added,
you know, upgraded at so many different spots, both on
the field and on the sideline. Is the Chicago Bears.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I hate to agree with you because maybe do.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
You have them on your list?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
No, no, it was they weren't on my list. Maybe
it's a personal bias. Three straight years going into the
season on NFL Daily and then back on the Around
the NFL podcast, we do this thing where we pick
over runners going to the year, and I thought the
Bears were maybe the most overrated team in the league
three straight years, Like I didn't see the vision. Every
offseason everyone gets excited about the Bears, the fan base.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Does they think it's at this time?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I think it makes more sense than it ever has
before because of the coaching staff.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I agree, because of the.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Coaching staff, because of the almost mistakes that they've built
into the roster. Is Grady Jarra and Dio and Dengbo
both gonna work?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I don't think so. But you look at the drafts
that they've had lately with Girvon Dexter, who's a good
young player and then the pick up that they had
with Montes set like they don't both need to work.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
They have a lot of good players on the both lines.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
And that's kind of where I look for all these teams,
like are you good enough on the offensive and defensive line?
And I think the Bears get over that mark. And
then now you're adding the coach and some of the
sizzle in this draft.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Who is I know you're a fan of I know
you're a fan of good bones on HGTV. You just
strike me as that type of guy, Greg, But that's
what they have. They have, they have bones. They have
good solid structure here to build off of.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I am a cheek bone guy, you know. That's that's
what I like. I mean, I guess who is it?
I'm just saying, who's your third?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
I don't really know where you want me to go
with that, but what's your next what's your next one? That? Yeah, yeah,
I have the Ravens would be the last one. Just
fix the defense and they're the team that's like, that's
the Eagles. Uh comp right? Eagles? Last year? To me,
the secondary was their achilles heel. They kind of fell
apart the year before at the end of the year.
But that was their need and they hammered it in
(28:52):
the draft with those first two picks with Mitchell and
with Cooper dejen they solve their problems in a way.
They went defensively, and there's other changes on the obviously
Saquon coming in and choosing things up a little bit.
But I just look at the Ravens and their pass defense,
and if they can add a corner and a pass
rusher in the draft, that might be enough for them
to get finally get over the hump and get to
(29:13):
a Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, they're in a spot that you want to be,
which is you have the base of a extremely consistent
and explosive, productive offense, and yet you have some areas
on the team that you need to improve. They quietly
had I wouldn't call them rebuilding the last couple of years,
but they had so many changes that they had to
make with the core of that team, and they did
it successfully while still winning a ton of games.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Why right on the fly, you're your old boss.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Is Eric DaCosta and Ozzie Newsom like making it happen?
And I kind of quietly thought, and especially last offseason,
they were almost rebuilding and yet they come out and
they have a great regular season and now just a
couple of pieces to put them over the top.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
The Falcons are maybe the other team.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I would just throw out there where obviously you have
the bones of a good offensive team there, you don't
have a lot of transition, you have continuity on the
offensive side of the ball, and can you just add
a couple of difference makers. The only thing that holds
me back is, like we've been saying this for years,
it doesn't matter who's running this team, whether it's Terry
Fonteau or not, Like you just need a couple difference
(30:11):
makers because I think you have the right defensive coach
to make it happen. So the Falcons would be the
other team. And I don't think they'll necessarily ignore offense.
It's not like it's not like they couldn't add another
offensive lineman get younger.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
There if they really felt like that was the right fit.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
But ultimately it's about defensive difference makers I think for
the top of the draft, and I do don't think
the Falcons are too far away, as they showed last
year with up and down quarterback play, and they weren't
too far away from making the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
I think that's fair. That's a division too. I mean,
Tampa has kind of had a stranglehold on it, but
I feel like it's pretty bunched together there in that division.
So the littlest improvement could make a big difference there.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
All Right, some teams kind of to go negative to
wrap things up here that maybe you would pump the
brakes on. Maybe it's more than just one draft to
improve this team, that the team actually does have a
lot of needs.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Quietly, who would you throw out there to start?
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Well, I would just say Houston, and Houston's a playoff
team last year Houston. I was in the building when
they beat the brakes off the Chargers, and they have
a dominant, dominant front seven and it's secondary. I mean,
the the whole defense is really really good. But they've undergone,
undergone this process and project of revamping an offensive line
that was broken, and I understand the thought press process
(31:29):
behind it, and Laramie Tunzel is a very gifted player,
but I think that was more along the lines of,
you know, okay, is this the is he the right
guy to kind of captain this offensive line to raise
up everyone else's level? And they came to the conclusion
by trading him that he wasn't so there is a
talent drain there when he leaves. You already weren't good there.
They brought in a bunch of guys that I don't
(31:50):
know that the talent overwhelms you. They're they're banking on
kind of a sum is greater than the individual parts,
and I think they'll continue to add to it here
in the draft. But that just seems like, Man, there's
a lot of uneasiness for me with that offensive line,
and it's hard to be a consistent team of a
(32:11):
dominant team when you have those types of question marks.
So the Houston offensive line more so than the Houston team,
if that makes any sense. It's just causing me some reservation.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
It does make sense.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
And yet I have seen teams fix their offensive line quickly,
just from god awful and terrible to average pretty quickly
with coaching and just decent players. And maybe I'm just
an optimist here, but I look at the Texans have
something we know, which is a marauding defense, and one
of the best defensive coaches in the league that has
(32:42):
has the ear of his entire team, and they've got.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
A quarterback that I completely believe in that.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I'm not worried at all about what happened a year
ago that I think is going to be ready to
bounce back. So I'm not agreeing with you on this one.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
I just want to see what happens with the offensive line.
I don't I mean, I love the defense, and to me,
like Demiko Matt Burke, like that's as good of a
combination of guys on the defensive brain trust, and you know,
I love Stroud. I mean Stroud, I've seen it. He's
like he's got some some stone cold killer to him,
like he's uh, he's he's he's legit. But I just, man,
(33:16):
that's that's that offensive line TBD. I'm gonna have a
little more caution and concern there than you are.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Okay, I don't think anything is gonna happen to Jaden
Daniels in year two that happened to c. J. Stroud
in terms of the offensive line just completely collapsing in
front of him. I do think they'll have kind of
a two point zero version of this offense and start
adding new wrinkles. And yet you look at a team historically,
any team that improves as much as the Commanders did
(33:51):
in one year if you look at it statistically, traditionally
takes a step back the next year, and there's many
reasons for that, but there's just not a lot of
young core pieces. And I think Adam Peters did an
incredible job. A year goes making all those one year
contracts for veterans, and a lot of them like Bobby
Wagner are back this year. Zach Ertz like, they can
(34:12):
still get it done this year, and they had a
good draft.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
But when I look.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
At their overall talent level and I compare them to
let's say that Dallas Cowboys and even I'll throw in
the New York Giants in their division, I don't see
a big gap.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Now.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I see a gap in a quarterback that you're excited
about for the next ten years. Of course, but the
expectations are going to be so high. To me, is
the talent base really there for them to be the
runaway second best team in that division?
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I don't necessarily think so.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I still think the Cowboys and the Giants are going
to be harder games in the division for them this year,
and some of their young players, if they can hit
on another draft, sure like that will be a great
base to build off of.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
But that's tough. So I think they might be a
little further away than commanders fans want to admit.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Now we've talked about this a little bit, but to me, look,
they did. They accomplished two things to put the record
in the run that they went on a side. They
changed the quarterback, they changed the culture they get on
both that made a drastic difference. But it doesn't change
the fact that when you look at before they got
there and twenty three their first round pick was Emmanuel Forbes,
and twenty two it was Johan Dotson, and twenty one
it was jam and Davis, in twenty twenty it was
(35:16):
Chase Young. None of those guys there. So the nucleus
of what should be your young core guys they arrived
that didn't exist. They band aidd the crud out of
that group last year with all these one year deals,
and they made it work and it all kind of
clicked and it all came together. That to me is
as a's a tight rope to walk that way and
(35:37):
try and get to the finish line when you're having
to piece this thing together. And it's no fault of
their own. They did a great job last year, but
they're going to need a couple drafts to accumulate before
you know, they can get out of this little rut
that they're in. In terms of band aids, they're having
a band aid a lot of stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I think they told a lot of what they did
in free agency because to me, it could work out
great and then they'll be where their fans want them
to be. To me, Deebo Samuel is a boomer bus
pick up. Javon Kinlaw is a boomer bus pickup. Marshall Lattimore,
just based on the amount of time that he's missed
over the last few years, is a boomer bus pickup.
And so if you hit three booms there, you're looking great.
(36:13):
But it wouldn't shock me if you run into some
struggles with some of those pickups. Do you have another
team that you would throw out there?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
You know, the one team? And this is an interesting
one because I think this team's going to be a
playoff team. They were a playoff team last year. I
think they're really good. Is green Bay like I to me,
the thing that green Bay needs there, I don't see
how they're going to acquire They got to draft their
butts off, then maybe they can. They can do it.
But Greg, when I look at their team, I see
so many good players, Like, they've got a lot of
(36:42):
good players. Good players raise the floor, great players raise
the ceiling, and I just I don't know how many
like true blue guys they have, like true like elite
top five at their position players. I think got a
lot a lot of good guys. They just need somebody
that when it's third down, you're like, Okay, gosh, this
is where the ball's going and luck stopping this guy.
I don't think they have that player. When you go
(37:03):
to the other side of the ball and it's you know,
who's gonna who's gonna dominate? Who do you have to
game plan against on their defense, I think, well, they
got a lot of good players. I don't know there's
one guy that we need to build our game plan around.
So to me, that's my that's my only issue there.
And I'm saying this, they're going to be a playoff team.
They're well coached, they're well run. I just don't know
when you stack them up with the other elite teams
(37:23):
in the league, if they have as many of those
marquee like Premier Premier guys and what you win the
way that they've won. I don't think they're in position,
you know, draft wise, to get one unless they just
knock it out of the park.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
See what you should do if our social person is
watching so that we start getting the great clips is
skip all that part about you thinking that they were
a playoff team again and a lot of good players and.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Just go to the context and.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
And I think Packerstans will be upset.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Please don't do that.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
I mean, because this is a team that went into
last year, is one of the favorites to represent the NFC,
so there there's high expectation there. But you're absolutely right
that the the wide receiver position, maybe even the offensive line,
heck even Jordan Love. Maybe they are all representative of
really good players, but where are the standouts and the
defense stars hasn't really performed to the level of the
(38:15):
talent that was there. I think they could be better
in year two, but yeah, they need to start hitting
on some guys like Jayra Alexander. He was not a
high pick. He was Guda Kun's first ever Pickie.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Cooper Adrian Cooper is the one that I think has
a chance to elevate into that category. Is someone you
have to worry about in game plan.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Around and you know what you don't want and is
to be paying guys a lot of money that aren't
premier players. And Kenny Clark last year did not play
like a premier player. He has been throughout his career,
but last year did not. Alexander, who is still on
the roster, and he's another name I could add to
the potential trades, hasn't played because he hasn't been on
the field like a premier player. Rassan Gary has been
(38:55):
up and down. I think it was partly because he
was coming off the injury last year. Maybe it was
a fit Wyatt is a first round pick who again
is a good player. So you're putting a lot of
resources Kuai Walker into this defensive side of the ball
and you're not getting elite elite production.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
All right, I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
It's going to be such a plot twist when the
social team just clips off what you just did and
sends that out.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Now, I've just run myself into trouble.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
I actually think this next one would be would be
one that they would like to I mean the category
was team to pump the brakes on. So we're like
putting ourselves in a box here where you almost need
to be negative. But I would just make the point
that the Cincinnati Bengals have had Joe Burrow and t
Higgins and Jamar Chase. It's so exciting that they could
(39:39):
sign them all long term and that got everyone in
Cincinnati getting over their worst fears that they weren't going
to do it. They've had them on the field the
last couple of years, not all the time, but when
Joe Burrow was starting DJ they are fourteen and thirteen
over a two year span, and so I look at
their roster right now. They haven't really addressed the defense
at all. You're suddenly saying, like getting rid of lou
(40:01):
An Rouma, who's been a good coordinator overall, is somehow
going to fix everything. And then we're also back to
where we were a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
I look at that.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Interior offensive line and they're still an issue.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
And so.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I hate to bring up bad memories when you're the Bengals,
but there are certain organizations that you look at and
you think like they should have been better over the
last two years with Joe Burrow, and so I think
they maybe are a little further away than people think
when you look at the overall roster and you look
in Vegas and they are tied right now for the
best team in the league in terms of predicted over underwins,
(40:34):
right with the Ravens and the Chiefs and the Eagles,
and they definitely aren't in that category. To me, I
think they really need a good draft here.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
DJ Well, I'm I'm a fan of everything lou and
Rumo is accomplished in what he's done as a coach,
and I think he's well respected. But the last year, Greg,
you know, you mentioned when you have Burrow and you
have Higgins and you have Jamar Chase and they're not
winning ballgames. And you know, I look at their schedule
last year. They scored thirty three and lost to one Washington.
They scored thirty eight and lost to Baltimore. They scored
(41:03):
thirty four, lost to Baltimore again. They scored thirty eight
and lost to Pittsburgh. Like that is a pretty simple
defensive problem that they have. And that's why in this draft,
you know, offensive players need not apply. Just take the
entire defensive side of the ball, and you've got to
upgrade it there. Offensively, they're going to be fine. They've
got this group together. They're going to score points. They
(41:24):
can't continue to lose games. When you're scoring over thirty
points in the league, you just can't do it right.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
But when you look at the depth chart, it's all
the same guys, Like I hope Trey Hendrickson is still there.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
If you trade him away, you're worried.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I really thought they would add some speed at the
linebacker position. Instead it's still Jermaine Pratt who wanted out
of there, Logan Wilson, and Orn Burk's not a lot
of speed there. And then you look at the secondary,
it's a lot of guys that they have invested on defense.
The idea was to turn over this defense, but they
haven't all necessarily panned out. DJ Turner, Jordan Battle, Cam Taylor,
Britt Dax Hill. Those are all guys who are taken
(41:57):
high in the secondary. I wouldn't say balance. They're disappointing players,
but they're not, you know, being part of a defense
that's really impacted change. And then at defensive tackle, even
at defensive end, like to me, on paper, it's a
pretty lackluster defense. So you're right, they know where they
need to focus, but they haven't necessarily shown that they
can fix it. I'm just I'm just holding up the
(42:18):
caution because my friend, you know, I'm in the Chris
Westling podcast studio, like Phil Westling, Nick Westling, they all
think the Bengals are going to be right back. There
is an expectation in Cincinnati that, of course they're Super
Bowl contenders. They have Joe Burrow, and I get that,
and I'm not sure I totally see the vision when
you look at the roster.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Well, they have a new voice defensively, can that help
you a little bit? Maybe that just gets something out
of some other players, just having a new voice in there.
And then to me, this draft, I mean, hey, Duke,
when it's time to knock this thing out of the
park and go get three four guys that can step
on the field and help you out.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Do you have any other teams you want to throw
out there or do you want.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
To No, I mean you probably have ten teams that
you want to pump the brakes on because you're you're
more negative than I am. But that's all I could
come up with. And literally the ones I came up with,
I would make an argument all three of them are
going to be playoff teams next year. So I'm just
like pumping super Well, you're you're just crucifying Johnny.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
And you're mister positive. You got to keep all these
relationships going.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
You can't say anything too negative because you're going to
see those guys.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
They don't care about me. They don't even know who
I am, so I can say whatever whatever we want.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Dolphins are another one, But I don't think anyone's really
too high on the Dolphins.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Okay, yeah, can we if we're gonna if we're gonna
end this thing, and we end this on a positive note,
I feel like this is Draft week. I'm excited. It's
like my Christmas and Greg's just sitting here telling me
how terrible the world is.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
No, you are.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
It is hope season, and so I don't want to
recognize the fact that, like, not all these prospects are
going to work out, but they're all beautiful.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Right now?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Do you get nervous by the way, Like Draft night,
You've done it quite a bit, it's about to start.
You've done all this homework for a year basically on
these players. Does DJ still get any nervous or are
you are you dead inside?
Speaker 3 (43:57):
No, they're the crowd. When you get the energy from
the crowd, so that gives you some nerves. Like when
we first start and the draft gets going and it's
like a it's a rhythm to it. You know, nobody
cares about this, but anyways, you're sitting on the desk,
you get all the energy and your heart starts racing
and it's fun. It's it's fun to be nervous because
I mean, you're doing something big and and and then
it takes about three or four picks. And like behind
(44:19):
the scenes. Rich told me when I my first year
on the main desk, which I think was in Philadelphia
twenty seventeen, maybe somewhere around there, where I had gone
from the kid's table to the adult table to sit
there with those guys, and he said, he said, like, hey,
don't try and be funny for like the first couppix
or something like that, like just say just relax, like
(44:41):
just let the draft kind of we'll get into a rhythm.
We'll get into a flow and then we can do
our thing and we have a good chemistry. We have
a blast. But that's what I always remember is is
great advice from a veteran of like, hey, let the
draft kind of settle in a little bit. We'll get
comfortable and then we'll get in a rhythm and then
off we go.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Well, I hate to think that this is the kids table,
but we wish you well.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
We're going no, no, we're gonna be watching. This is
like the cousins. This is like the cousins table. We're
outside on the patio by the pool, but.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
We have we have more fun than with all the
parents around.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
We will be back for one more forties and free
agents before this little mini series wraps up. So we'll
be wrapping up the draft next week. Looking forward to that.
Good luck, DJ, Well, I'll be watched.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
Thanks buddy. Appreciation
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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