On the latest NFL Players: Second Acts podcast, former veteran linebacker and Super Bowl champion turned Hollywood screenwriter Spencer Paysinger joins Peanut and Roman. Spencer turned in a productive seven-year NFL career that included winning Super Bowl XLVI with the New York Giants. After retirement, he immediately found success as a Hollywood screenwriter with his hit show “All-American.” Spencer takes us on a journey from teaching himself screenwriting, to creating a hit network TV show. He also opens up about how he’s constantly working to gain respect as a writer and producer, and not as a football player working in Hollywood. Spencer also details us upcoming projects, and shares who made his personal Mount Rushmore of influence. All that, and more, in a conversation you don’t want to miss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What did you learn.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
From doing that show? What that documentary about that coach?
The situation? Like, just share with it? Was it you
not to just say? Man?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
You fully thank you, thank y'all for tuning in.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I'm Peanut tuning and this is the NFL Player's second
act podcast, Roman Harper my co host host. Co host
you like co host hosts? Which one you prefer? Whichever
one's better than you? Anyways?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Can we just get to it all right?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Anyways, all of our viewers and listeners out there, Man,
thank you as always for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Uh give us a rating of review, leave a couple of.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Comments like, follow, like share, follow that whole deal wherever
you pick subscribe.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
There we go. Peanut, you on it today, Baby, I
love it.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Keep bringing the energy, especially wherever you pick up your podcast,
whether it's iHeartRadio, Apple podcasts, Please make sure you tune in.
Continue to pass the word tele a friend to tell
a friend to tell friend.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Peanut.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Who's our special guest today? Man, I mean got to
be the biggest afro we've had on the show.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It is by far the biggest AFRO we've had on
the show. Seven seven year linebacker NFL that he won
super Bowl forty six with the Giants. He's a writer,
he's a producer. He has a production company called More
Street Productions. He is the show All American is loosely
based on his life. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome
to the podcast. Spencer pay Singer.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Hello, Hello, the Pride of the Dara Heights Pride.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
I would say south Central, but Grandpa.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
But now they say it's not even south central anymore.
It's just South La.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
No, no, no. If you're if you're from if you're
from south central, south central, we did not say South La.
If you're a native, it is still south absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
So who says South La.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Then let's cull that up.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Transplants people that lived from the valley that come over.
But if you're from south Central, it is south Central, Okay,
till I die, till I die.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Thomas is all south exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
He's he know my cousin lives in Bigglehood. So yeah, yes,
I like it. I can get down win it.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
I thought south south Los Angeles South LA was a thing,
but no, it's Inglewood, south south Central all day.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I respect it, all right, all right, that's what flatles feel. Spencer.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I got a I got a real question for you,
and I saw your interview with Jamail Hill and found
out that you had your Super Bowl forty six rings stolen.
So have you had have you gotten this ring back?
Have you had it replaced? Because at the time, you're like, dude,
I'm not paying twenty some thousand dollars to get a
new one, so I will just see what happens. And
the guy tried to pawn it once but that didn't happen,
(02:42):
so like, what's up.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
It's still in the wind, still in the wind. It's
it's one of those things that you try not to
think about throughout the year, but well, my best twice
it's like, yeah, thank you, but no, it's it's one
of those things where you know, it's it's probably just
in somebody's shoe box right now, in somebody's top drawer.
But I always said, once I do a concept, whether
it's TV or film, to you know, twenty five thousand dollars.
(03:05):
I was a couple of years ago. With inflation everything happening.
Now that's probably going up there, so.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It's probably closer to thirty one. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
My my goal is to whether a film or TV
show or something that can then you know, pay for it,
but I can't. I can't fit that right now. I
got two kids at home.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I feel you. What about insurance? Then the insurance supposed
to handle.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Some see that's the if you want to get into
the details of it. Insurance lapsed for one month, oh
for one month when we were when we were finishing
the second season of All American and your card is
on what's it an auto renewed? The card expired and
I said, okay, I'll handle it once I get down
shooting All American whatever. That is exactly the time from
(03:43):
that it happened. So I called the insurance company and
said it's lapsed.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So I bet it was happening.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
It was like, we don't have to say got bad luck.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
There, so sorry.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Do you want to explain to everybody that that doesn't know?
Because I heard the interview, so I kind of know
what happened. Do you want to kind of tell it
real quick?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Absolutely, absolutely so. At the beginning of the year a
few years ago, LA just went through like such downport.
To start the year, we found some mold down in
my office. I let the window open, was kind of
cleaning out some stuff. Clean out the ceiling and whatnot.
I unknowingly left the window cracked, literally went out with
my with my wife and my baby girl. My wife
(04:26):
was pregnant at the time. It was the first day
that La had, like, you know, a lot of sun.
So we went to the Farmer's market. We did the
whole thing, west side Farmer's market, the ice cream, the
whole thing. Came back and saw that that window was
jimmied all the way open, so I ran inside, not
knowing exactly what to do. They had literally left maybe
five minutes before we got there. The office was ransacked,
(04:47):
not knowing if they knew what was gonna what was
in there. But yeah, that's that's the gist of it.
So it sucks. But to me, it was one of
those things where it's like, all right, this, I'm already
transitioned out of the game. There's a lot of thing
things happening right now. I'm going to use this as
a moment to go, okay, like, let me double down
on what I'm doing now to potentially get that ring back.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
So yeah, so I've been in two Super Bowls. You've
been in two super Bowls. You got one. I don't
have one. You clearly you have one. What memories do
you have from the Super Bowl?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Man, I think just just realizing in that moment. I
remember one of our first timeouts when we run onto
the field for special teams play, just knowing that legit,
millions of people are watching this game. You know, you
rewind about twelve thirteen months prior to that, I actually
lost a national championship against cam Newton and Auburn, So
in somewhat of a calendar year, going from you know,
(05:40):
the pits of losing national championship playing for Oregon. Ship
carry the whole thing to then fast forward and now
the confetti's falling on us. You know, my dad and
my brother found me within I don't know how they
got into the field so fast, but like within seconds
of the confetti fall and I see my dad and
my brother. I hug them and it's just like tears
of joy. Yeah, that specifically, that last play. I remember
looking at things. Tyler Sash and Greg Jones are rookie
(06:03):
players during my time there, and we didn't see the
last play. We were looking at each other and we said, listen,
so the last play, we know it's gonna be heill
Mary if our side of the phild screams or World
Champions if their side of phild screens.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
We just lost.
Speaker 5 (06:17):
We closed our eyes kind of like just cuddling it
up our side screen. We just took off running. I
don't I don't know what happened those first couple of minutes.
I just know I was like a bat out of hell,
just running.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Run around crazy.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yeah, so you went to the excuse me, so y'all
go to the White House meet President Obama. Did he
have any jokes, because I know when you went to
the White House and you met President Obama, he had
jokes for you.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
He had like old man jokes. He did.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
So, who's the old guy on the team.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, he did.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
He hit me with two old man jokes, and so
he was like, man, you you must be the old
guy on the team. I'm like, nah, bro, I'm like
twenty twenty six, Like no, I just gray hair. He
was like, ah, everybody starts laughing, and then he like
turns back around because I didn't. One of my other
teammates had a mohawk, and he was just like, oh, man,
at least you know how this kind of hair. But
I was like, bro, you kind of getting great like
me too though, So yeah, he had a couple of
(07:04):
jokes from me. So did he have anything? I tell anybody,
I've never seen a person be able to control the
room exactly the way that he did, like the charisma,
the like I don't know what it is, but the
moment he walked into the room, it was just like
he's the guy.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
All the lights, yes, saw on him. Everybody's looking at him,
and he knows it. He knows it, and he can
wield it like an axe. Like for me seeing him
for the you know, the time that I saw him.
I mean I was a rookie at this time, so
I'm on the totem pole. I can imagine like you
talked to Victor Cruz and Eli Mannon and justin talking
those guys like they probably got the stories. With Rock,
I was off to the side, tried like eating crackers
(07:39):
and juice and whatnot. But one thing I really tried
to do was was kind of big up him a
little bit when we were shaking hands, of when he
shook my hand. I tried to come in with like
the power group, like what's up he again? He's trained?
He with the like ah, I got you so I
tried to get one on him.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Ready are coming, I mind trick? You thought you were
going to lead this dance?
Speaker 5 (08:02):
Yeah, yeah, I I got a picture of it too,
and I tell everybody, I'm like, this is the moment
I tried to keep a roack Obama and he came
hit me so knocked me out.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So in twenty seventeen, you actually went to the Carolina Panther, Yes,
and you shared a room with some greats in that room,
former teammates of both of ours, Shaq Thompson, Luke Keighley,
TD was still there before he.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Was on his you know, before he left.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
What was that experience like like being in that room
with that group of guys who who had just come.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Off of Super Bowl back of course.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, really good group too, and they were already kind
of figured out who they are.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Yeah. I mean, you know, shout out to those guys
because you know, they took me on at a time
when I thought I knew for a fact that my
playing crib was done after that season. Oh, I put
it in my mind that you know, I wanted to
play seventy years and walk away before I was thirty.
I didn't know how it was going to happen. You know,
do you know if I was going to be top
of the league, bottom of the league, somewhere in the middle.
But year seven for me was okay, I'm walking away
(08:58):
from this. My time with the Call and Panthers made
me go, maybe I can give one or two more
years out of this because the structure of how that
organization was was put together. You know, whoever owned the
team at the time whatnot, not really talking about them,
but like coach rivera on down, you're talking about guys
who are watching film. You know, six thirty seven am
in the morning, you can't find a room around the
(09:19):
sort of the player quarters that isn't filled with two
or three players at a time. You know, you're sitting
next to Luke Keithley like again Shaq Thompson like, by
the way, like I still owe him push ups and
I'm never going to do this a shout out shot Shock,
I'm not doing your push ups. But it was just
seeing seeing how a linebacker room and defense is supposed
to be ran. You know, the players have voices. You
(09:39):
know that the coaches understood the player's needs at the time.
Shepherd a lot of their a lot of their needs
throughout practicing in the game and just it was a
really dope atmosphere of just collaboration. So when I'd say
I was on my way out, but looking at them
and especially the role that they wanted me to be in,
they can't. They signed me and they say, listen, are
too deepest strong. You come here and just be a
(10:01):
dog on special teams and that's all we need of you.
Come to the defensive meetings and everything, but on special
teams like that is where you shine. I said, I can.
I can do that all day for you.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
So I was fortunate to be with them for about
a month, got cut towards the I think before the
last game of the season, but fortunately enough we submitted
our pilot for All American and that was enough for
me to walk away from the league.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
So here's a question I have when we were there,
Josh Norman J No, he really he paid attention in meetings.
But I remember one meeting specifically, Coach Wolkes is up
there doing something and you know, going over the game plan,
and this food is doing his taxes, no doubt he is,
like legit.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Doing seen him in their opening mail too.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Boy, like he's no, sah, He's doing his taxes and
I'm sitting here like, yo, what is you doing? And
we're undefeated. We're having our you know, our our super
Bowl run season. Is it true that you wrote a
short story?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What is it called? Shortcuts?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Shortcuts?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Did you write the synopsis?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Shortcuts? I did one of the meetings.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
I did so this This was maybe within my first
two weeks of being with the team. Yeah, I was
largely a free agent by last year. It was great
for me because I was working on All American in
the afternoon, training in the morning just to stay in
shape in case the A team called. I get on
with Carolina. Once I figure out the lay of the
land and the flow of everything, all that we're seeing
the defensive meeting whom it's like Wednesday or Thursday when
(11:23):
you put it in like some of the thicker instill
and I just had this idea for a story of
something that I experienced being back in Los Angeles for
the you know, the two or so months that I
was there, of when my barberge just vanished, you know,
and as black men, we understand it like that's a
horror story, no doubt. Trying to understand where you're going
to get your haircut, which is tied to your confidence
and how you present yourself in the world. It was
completely wiped away from me. So I ended up in
(11:45):
our defensive install book writing like I think it got
to like four or five pages of what it would
look like, how the different relationships are tied to, like
emotional relationships that were tied to I look up and
I'm thinking I'm writing for maybe you know, five or
six minutes. It was like four five minutes later, and
it was probably one of the worst practices I've ever had,
because like, I just didn't I didn't write anything down.
(12:06):
So I remember talking to like shocking those guys like Okay,
so what do I have on this? Okay, are you
blessing this time? What's going on?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Thoe? It was like you ain't been there?
Speaker 5 (12:13):
Yeah, But to me it was it was It was
a beautiful experience because I had a moment of terror
of oh wow, I'm about to be exposed as somebody
that's not prepared or whatnot, which I pride in my
career or always being a player that coaches don't have
to worry about. But then right after that, I went
if I can be in a defensive meeting room with
Julius Pepper, Shaq Thompson, you know, TD, Luke Heigley, and
(12:35):
my mind is still on story off in the wind.
This is probably a sign for me to walk away
from the league because I was already sort of starting
my transition, but that was the single most defining moment
of going I think it's time to get away from this.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And so what about screenwriting? Like calmed your nerves? Like
what about it that you figured about yourself? That that
maybe it's taught you about yourself. They're like, man, this
is something I'm really good at it. This is what
makes it so calm for you? Like where does it
take you?
Speaker 5 (13:02):
I think it's just it's a conversation about confidence about
you know, you're essentially a god in this world. Like
you're deciding what color the trees are, You're deciding the characteristics.
You're defining who your main character is, Like what are
their horoscopes? You know, what are their signs and the emotions.
So it's just like for me largely being like a
role player on pretty much all of my teams, like
(13:23):
knowing that I can sort of control the situation I'm
not trying to be the guy that's like you know,
wielding you know, power in that sense. But the idea
of creating something from nothing, you know, taking an idea
and then eventually a couple of years later it gets
on air and becomes what it is in All American.
It's that was the fun part for me of just
understanding that those wild, crazy ideas that I had even
(13:44):
as a kid or even through college. And obviously when
I started, like actually learning how to screenwrite in the NFL,
you know, nothing's crazy, you know, if you put it
down on paper, if you if you understand sort of
the structure of how to screenwrite, the world is just.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
We're gonna take a short break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
So how do you how did you learn the structure
of it? And then I heard you mentioned earlier like
you already had All American Like you were like, you know,
I'm in this meetings, but then I already started on
working on All Americans, So like when did that kind
of start? And then like how do you get this structure?
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (14:23):
So the structure actually came over the course of a
few years. So the NF off day on Tuesday, when
you know, we're all sore, beat up. We go to
rehab in the morning, but we're really just like laying
on the couch, like licking our wounds throughout the rest
of the day, gearing up for you know, playing the
next game. Every off day on Tuesday, I would see
a new movie, didn't matter runtime length, whatever, like that
(14:44):
was my ritual. Ritual was going to dinner and then
seeing over the couple of years. The first couple of years,
I just started understanding story structure just by watching it,
just being like, okay, well this is a low point,
this is a high point. Oh he has to make
a decision at this point, and just really like allow
and get to like just absorbing to me to the
point where I said, okay, I see some stuff that's happening.
(15:05):
Some of this stuff isn't really I would do something different.
Let me see if I can do something different. So
I started downloading screenplays, and for those of you like
listening any screenplay, arguably any screenplay that you want that
you want to read, just type in the name of
it in PDF and that script will probably pop up
in some form on the Internet. So I was just
doing that for a couple of years, reading books on screenwriting,
(15:25):
watching YouTube videos, and it really became that thing that
would sort of bring down my adrenaline levels after games. So,
you know, guys, are you know, playing cards on the plane,
watching watching the tape, or you know, drinking a little
something on the plane. You know, I was off to
the side watching movies with subtitles. Sometimes I watch movies
if I'm really tired, watching movies with no sound or nothing,
(15:47):
just to see if the feeling is still emoting off
the screen based on the words that that aren't being
said to me. So it was really just an immersive
experience that I was like, this is just interesting to learn.
And one thing led to another where I had a
chance meeting with somebody and sent them a little bit
of what I was working on, not necessarily all American centric,
but just saying, hey, like, I'm writing something. I just
(16:08):
want to know if it's interesting. And then that ended
up getting me my first meeting with Greg Blanty.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Was it How was it when you so?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Was it easier having all these projects before you left
the game? Because I think a lot of guys they
find a little bit of struggle as they transition and
they're trying to figure out what they want to do.
But to me, it's sound or when I'm hearing you say,
is like I had all this stuff ready, I was
writing scripts.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
It may be because there's pressure when you don't have,
like I'm not doing football, yeah yeah, And so like
there's no pressure when you're just kind of just riding
in the win.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah yeah, kind of being in the moment.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
No pressure. There was no pressure for me. I mean again,
I was never the fifteen hundred million dollar guy.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I was.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
I was a special teams guy that could could look
at the roster and go, okay, I'm really in competition
for maybe four or five guys on this team for
those couple of special team spots. So knowing that, you know,
even coming to the lead, I always did some type
of job, shouting experience internship. I was a guy shaking hands,
grabbing cars, following up with coffees, that type of stuff.
Did a couple of internships. My most prominent one was
(17:10):
a marketing internship re Quest Diagnostics. So it's Madison, New Jersey.
It's right after the season. I'm licking my wounds, but
I'm still you know, I have my little J crew
bag and I got my little office, and it allowed
me to just understand where my position can be once
a walk away from the game. I have an econ
degree from University of Oregon, so I always thought, Okay,
(17:30):
New York giant econ degree, something's going to happen with
Wall Street, business finance, something in that world. But screenwriting
was just this hobby that just got louder and louder
in my mind. So it's not that I really had
any specific story I wanted to tell walking Away from
the Game, but it was just literally a chance meeting
of my now producing partner Day and Mork where the
first time I met him was in my bi week
(17:52):
year six, and we were just talking about both being
from Los Angeles, growing up in Los Angeles him and
Palace Roadies me in South Central and having to two
different perspectives of what LA is, but yet we're out
in the world. It's like, no, we're both from LA
You just know what that comes with. So after a
few weeks I went back to playing, he called me
and said, Hey, I had this weird meeting with Greg Berlanti.
(18:13):
I told them about you. He said, it might be
interesting that there's a black kid that goes to Bedlo's
High school. Made to the league and teach him starting
to right. Can he send me something? So I literally
put my playbook aside. I remember, it's like Wednesday or
Thursday night, put my playbook aside and wrote a one
page document about just the ebbs and flows of what
became all American. And by that time I had known
(18:33):
how to take you on the ride of a compelling story.
So I sent that off. A couple weeks later, I
get a call from them saying, something's interesting here, and
I knew statistically we were eliminated from the playoffs. So
I set that meeting like a month in advance, and
my first day back in LA in the offseason, I
went to Warner Brothers, sat down, had a conversation with him,
and then I think two or three weeks later we
(18:54):
went into contract negotiations.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
That's fast.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, that thing really heated up. Yeah, I don't know
what was on. Do you still have a copy of
that one page?
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, I was wondering, like, you got to like put
that up somewhere because you really hit.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Them with it. One page.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Yeah, it was It wasn't even that it was like
more like a paragraph, but it was essentially just playing
into the fact that no matter who you are, if
you're the fire hundred million dollar man or the guy
just walking down the street, we all know what it
feels like to live a universal truth of being an
outsider in a new world. So, yes, the shows about
a young black kid from South Central going to bell
(19:31):
It was high and then potentially into the NFL, but
it was also the story of an outsider entering a
new land. And that's something that no matter who you are,
race create ethnicity, like, you understand what that universal feeling is.
And largely when you are pitching a concept like that
that can go on a CW or Fox or what
have you, you want to capture a broader audience than
who you just think is going to watch this. So
(19:53):
you know, I was really just writing these stories to
to understand where my position would be outside of the league.
But then once James became a full embodiment of a person,
it was like, Okay, I think we could do some
good here.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
So but was that easy to sell them because you
actually lived it? You know what I'm saying, Like just
I'm just saying from the standpoint of like living in
South Central, But then now you're going around and like
you from You're from a ton of black people, right,
so every day you see people that look like you,
and then all of a sudden, you're in this new
(20:25):
space and nobody looks like you. I have similar experience
with that. I'm from a military side of the family
or a military background, right, So I was always the
guy who didn't there wasn't a lot of people that
looked like me. So then I went to Chicago South Side,
and then I went to a school, and then everybody
(20:45):
looked like me, and I thought that was weird.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I was like, what are white people like?
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, I had black teachers, black janitor, black principle. But
for me, that was like so weird because I had
always just been like the minority and I was cool
with I guess I was used to it. So then
when I was placing that situation like what are what age?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Is that? What a what a?
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Hispanics said? What are where everybody else at?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I was used to growing up in the military, like
it's you got a melting pot of some of everybody.
So for me, at an early age, I experienced that.
And I know you said that to one of your interviews,
like by the time he was thirteen, and then you
get to high school, and then when you get to college,
you're like, yo, this is I lived this at fourteen already,
Like I'm good, so I can I can navigate these worlds.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Like how was that it was?
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Going to your point? You know, sort of navigating both
those worlds, you get comfortable in that swim, you know,
for me as thirteen, fourteen years old being thrust into
Beverly Hills out you know, even the real stories. My
uncles had football coach at Beverly, so I had known
from from I know, I had known if Beverly was
high school as the school I knew I was probably
gonna have to go to. But it was largely because
(21:53):
my family had a football presence there right that was
never really on campus beyond the Friday night games being
maybe the water boy, the ball boy, what have you.
But once I got there and I realized, like, oh,
I just went from you know, South central Englewood, which
is predominantly black and Latino, to you know, predominantly Jewish,
Asian and or other. Beverly was two percent black. But
that two percent are still largely friends to this day.
(22:15):
Like there's maybe twenty or thirty of those people that
I still talk to on a daily basis because we
have this crazy, insane group chat that like will get
us all put in jail if.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
We all got one, we all got one, say less.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
But what it allowed me to do or experience at
such a young age was to know that, you know,
weir are deeper than our skin color.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
You know.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Was it allowed me to understand so many different faiths,
creeds and ethnicities at a young age, the point where
a lot of the stuff that's happening today, I can
hit my friends from from back in the day and go,
how are you slash your community? Like experiencing this like
let me know. But then on the other hand, it
allowed me to be comfortable in any room I walked into.
So to your point about about even going to Oregon,
(22:55):
organ was also two percent white, I mean two percent black.
So I'm walking in, I'm like, oh, I've been here before.
I know how to move and shake in this land
where I did have a handful of players that kind of,
you know, click up with the team and don't really
experience life outside of just being in a little ecosystem
of football. But I will credit a handful of those
guys that they kind of looked at me and was like, Okay,
(23:16):
he's not really from our experience, because you know, when
you look at the bios, it says Spencer Pacing and
Los Angeles Beverly was high school, it doesn't say South Central,
but went to Bedlis High School. So a lot of
my teammates just casually kind of pushed me to the
side because they didn't think I came from a lived
experience with them. It wasn't until they could relate to you. Yeah,
it wasn't until and I knew what they were experienced,
but they were experiencing something at eighteen nineteen that I
(23:39):
experienced at thirteen fourteen. So I was like, Okay, I'm
not gonna damn you guys for thinking one thing or
another for me about me. But in a sort of
a beautiful way, All American allowed for some of those
conversations to come back around. Now I had a handful
of my college players. I was like, hey, man, like
I actually didn't realize like you were from South Central.
I know you told us, but we just didn't leave
(24:00):
you back then. And I was like, no, I understand,
it's not I'm not fighting for my identity. I was
comfortable in my identity and who I was, right, you know,
I credit those those players that end up hitting me
up when they really didn't have to to go. Okay, like,
we see you, you weren't you weren't lying to us?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Right? Uh? Tell me this though. So you entered the
NFL as a rookie, Yes, win a super Bowl? Yes?
All right?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So now you enter into this second act as a
screenwriter and have a massive hit.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yes, right in there? Right? I mean you told us like, dude,
I was in contract, I talked to two weeks.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So you know, the odds of that are extremely low, astronomical.
And so when I when we bring that up, does
that what is it when we just take a step
back from that, Like, do you ever realize how how
much you're accomplished in like and how the odds are
against you to do that? And when I say these
(24:55):
things to you, how does that make you feel inside?
Speaker 5 (24:58):
It allows me to take a moment go while like
that happen. Whenever somebody says that it makes that connection,
I'm just like, how did I even get here? You know,
I'm only thirty five and I still feel like I
have so much life to live and so many other
careers to even partake in. But to understand ironically all
American season production season and like an NFL season like
(25:20):
eerily mimic the same sort of cadence. You know, we
start writing the current season in the springtime, we go
into production in the fall time, which will be fall camp.
We premiere in their early fall, and then go the
next few months, which is an NFL season. So one
thing that was really dope for me is to in
that pivot, in that transition. It was the cadence kind
(25:41):
of largely remaining the same of.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
When I was to like get up, you get right
back in the games.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
So to feel that, to understand like there's a bit
of survivor remorse with that of why was either person
And there's there's a long history of reasons of how
I became this person is not just me. It's eighty
dates back even to my grandparents and my great grandparents
being part of the great migration. So it's me honoring
(26:06):
them as much as I as much as you say,
like all these great things, Like I'm thinking of my
grandparents and my great grandparents right now because I'm like
you guys, made those decisions to like get out to
Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, where'd they come from?
Speaker 5 (26:18):
So on my dad's side, they largely came from Mississippi
and Michigan. Say, in Mississippi, yeah, and then on my
mom's side Louisiana. I'm sorry, Louisiana and Michigan. On my
mom's side in Mississippi. So great migration product of it.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Memphis ten, that's where mine came from. Moved straight up
to Chicago. Yeah, mine just kind of stayed in Alaba state.
They was like, we never got out.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
We like that and we'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
So all American and you're in your sixth season, right,
So you get there, you pitch this idea, you tell
your story to a bunch of writers in the writer's room, right,
and then all of a sudden they come back and
they give you a brand new product and you're like,
wait a minute, this thing happened like this was a
brother Latino. Wait wait that that happened that wait, wait
(27:11):
a minute, like the whole thing had changed. How hard
was that to trust the process and just say, let
us take this, we got you this, this is what
we do. When you know your experience and you can
tell your story better than anybody.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
You lived it, you know how it is?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
How hard was that to trust the process of letting
your writers just do what they do?
Speaker 5 (27:31):
Oh man, it was multifaceted. So when you're to your point,
because I love like you guys to do your homework,
and I feel like they do their homework. The original
script see the original The original script actually had a
lot of people to know this, But Billy Baker was
originally Latino, which then changes dethnicity of his two kids.
And when I first got that and I thought I was,
(27:52):
I wasn't mad at it. I was mad more so
that like, this wasn't my story. The fact that you know,
we all have our own history that we that we
that we vault and if anybody attempts to change that,
we go hold on. That's not what happened. That was
happening to me at a at a network level that
millions of people are going to see. So there was
some initial trust from from the early riders are going, Hey,
(28:15):
in order to tell a compelling story, we have to
sort of change a couple of things to make sure
the teenage girl is watching this for the same reason
the sixty year old man is watching this because there's
a structure to writing a teen drama. So it was
allowing myself to go, Okay, I'm gonna see I'm gonna
trust you guys, but like, just can we tweak a
couple of things, And you know, credit to some of
(28:35):
the early writers and whatnot and which largely allow them
to still on the show to today. They allowed me
to come in and tell my stories and put them
in organic ways to elevate the show. And you know,
arguably so our first season, our original showrunner stepped away
in k and KEETCHR. Corel Carroll then took over as
a showwner and is now still the showrunner. She has,
(28:56):
I believe, three shows on air incredible black women, incredible
strong writer, amazing, amazing mentor amazing champion for stories about us.
If she didn't take the reins when she did, All
American maybe goes half a season, maybe a full season,
and it's kind of just like lost to history. So
those early couple of years of understanding that Spencer James
(29:20):
is now changing my own history, it messed me for
a little bit. I will be completely like extremely vulnerable
with you because again, our history, like our lived experience,
is something that like we vault, that's our story that
we own that if nothing else in the world. And
now I have people looking at me kind of mad
(29:40):
that I actually didn't get shot like it sells like
it says in the TV show. I've literally had high
schoolers go, oh man, you've never been shot before, and
I'm like, no, like you don't want I shouldn't. That's
not a bad thing. So it was it was getting
to a point where, you know, realizing Spencer James had
to serve a purpose larger than just telling my story.
It was Spencer James and the cast largely reflect the
(30:02):
teen experience in America today, and for the past couple
of years, we always felt every seventy ten years, there
comes that teen drama that sort of defines an era.
You know, it's Friday Night Lights, It's Gilmore Girls, One
Tree Hill, nine to two, or oh, those type of shows.
Those shows never really had a black lead. Those shows
never had black characters going through you know, unapologetically black stuff.
(30:24):
And we felt, if we did this right, all Americans
stand up there next to those iconic teen dramas as
just the next spoken the will of teen dramas going
down the road.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
So I mean, that's a great explanation. So but I
got to take it back just a little bit personal.
So at any point in time you like y'all won't
give my script and I'm going along.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Like did you did that ever happen?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
And I want to know early on when you're starting
to see some of these things where you like like nah,
this that ain't it, Like I want to come in
like this has to happen because that was because trying
to keep it real right right, because it is it
is your story, yeah, And so when you have to
be able to give up the reins like this, I'm
just like, man, that's got to be so hard because
not only is this my story, but this.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Is my life.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yes, yes, And so you kind of spoke on that
a little bit, but I just want to know from
a personal standpoint, at any point till me like nah, bro,
like I'm taking my home, like.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Nah, there I go somewhere else.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
There were a couple of times where I had to
have those hard conversations with the early showgrun of.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Just like why is this in here? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (31:28):
To explain this to me because I do not see
a path forward with this being in here. Yeah, and
you know, credit to them and the staff.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
That's a very professional way to say that.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Well, so here's the thing, like I knew, especially in
those early days, what an opportunity this was. I knew
that this was if I've spent the last four to
five years teaching myself how to scream, right, and now
I have people attempting to tell my story, I can
use this. This is allowing me to get into the door,
and now I can get busy in this world. So
it wasn't so much being shortsighted of I'm taking my
(31:58):
ball and going home. It was Okay, I see some
folks up stuff, But how can I massage this in
a way to where like we're still moving things forward,
my voice is still heard. But then I'm also allowing
this to spawn out and create other opportunities. So it
was having that foresight to know to know that.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
So I guess what I don't understand. What I'm confused
on is you have a group of writers, right, yes,
so they write the story. Do you write anything else
when they when it comes out? Or is it just
they write it and you make a couple edits or
like how much?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
How much? How much?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Not even releverage.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
How much pool do.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
You have when you say no, let's change that, so
add this, do this, take that out.
Speaker 5 (32:37):
What's amazing about our writer's room, especially again shout out
to NK and our staff, is it is an extremely
collaborative experience. It's never and for people in the writer's room,
it's never you go off and write the script. You
go off and write the script and then we'll just
come back and make sure everything's aligned. Every scene, every emotion,
every dialogue is poured over by ten writers including me
(32:58):
and the Showbunner got it. Well, it's not so much
I'm going I'm writing this, I need you to write
the rest of it, or let me see a review
to make sure it's good. It's before a word is
even written, that writer who's tasked with writing that episode
has a ten to twelve page document going by scene,
who's in the scene, what emotions are coming from the scene,
(33:19):
what are we getting out of that scene to then
go off and write it. And that is what's largely
with especially in the earlier seasons that I had such
a great hand in helping craft. Now like I'm involved
as much as I can be. I have a couple
other projects that are in development right now in various stages.
So it's like I can't be there as much as
I can be, but whenever I go there, we get
right back into it.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
You know.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
It is genuinely a family slash ecosystem because our showrunner,
if you do good work for our show runner, NK,
she will elevate you within the world of.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
All American Yeah, so what other projects I know you
just mentioned. What other projects are you working on that
you can speak of?
Speaker 5 (33:55):
Yeah, so the you know, I'm currently writing a film
for Kevin Hart's company. I pitch them a story.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Again.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
We're in Inglewood right now. I went to school in
Ingwood from K through eighth and it's a story about
a young black kid from Inglewood seeking his first kiss
before the end of the world. It takes place the
week of winter break, right before Y two k hits,
so December nineteen ninety nine, and it's every bit of
the wood, a little Scott Pilgrim versus the world, just
(34:21):
like some like some of those neighborhood movies where you know, yes,
the world is ending, but all this kid, our main
character cares about is getting his first kids. So it's
sort of an ode to my elementary school, in my
middle school. A lot of the names that populate the
script are my friends. A lot of them are still
my friends till today. Another film i'm writing, actually, you know,
because we are where we are, is I'm writing a
(34:42):
film about Bill None. Bill None the second. So Bill
Nunn was actually like one of the greatest NFL scouts
to ever live. He's right now the only black man
to enter the NFL, the NFL Hall of Fame without
ever playing the game. You know, this is a guy
who in nineteen sixty nine Dan Rooney hired him or
convinced him to join the Steelers staff when the Steelers
were one of the worst in net organizations in the NFL,
(35:06):
and from sixty seven I think you passed away. I
want to say in twenty fourteen he was sort of
the architect behind what we know the Steelers to be today.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
You know, he in.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Nineteen seventy four he found or was technically the architect
behind the greatest draft class of any sport ever. Where
you guys know, if you're a general manager, you find
one Hall of famer, you're like, I can hang my
hat on that. He orchestrated a nineteen seventy four draft
that found them five and one draft, four drafted and
one undrafted guy in Donnie Shale. So it's this crazy
(35:37):
cool story of how a black scout in nineteen sixty
seven through nineteen seventy four created a energy, a dynamic
around the changing of the black athlete from the more subdued,
respectable Jackie Robinson in the sixties, mid sixties and whatnot
to the changing of the ties. And now you're getting,
you know, a Jim Brown, You're getting a Muhammad Ali,
(35:59):
You're getting those guys go hey, if you hit me,
I'm gonna hit you back. So it's this cool story
of how a guy is essentially shepherding a new black
athlete into the NFL, making them realize they actually have
power in this space. So really excited about that. I've
been working with the family. Actually spent some time with
the Pittsburgh Steelers about I think it was last year
the year before, just going through the archives, meeting with
(36:22):
all the Woney family as much as many as I could,
Mike Tomlin. Mike Tomlin even says personally, there are conversations
that me and Bill Nunn Junior had that I cannot
tell anybody, you know, it's just it's he was such
a powerful person. And you know, Lord wheeling like, we're
creating an incredibly dope story kind of with a little
(36:42):
splash of black sportation in it because of the time.
This was a time in the in the seventies where
you know, black athletes, specifically the NFL. You know, you're
seeing the Me and Joe Greens become who they were.
This is also the time when black sportation was at
was at pretty much an all time high. This was
the new next wave in cinema. I can only imagine
what that looked like being a black player in the
(37:04):
NFL seeing yourself for the first time in a shaft
or superfly and as a person of prominence and it's
not getting killed at the end of the film and
outsmarting people. How does that play on the field when
you can see yourself for the first time in film
being vaulted as a superhero and not a villain.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
You know?
Speaker 5 (37:22):
So, yeah, really cool story. I'm really excited to do it.
We've been working on a story for some time now,
and the materials are just about done. I'm just doing
some small tailoring. But to me, Bill on Dream was
every bit Denzel Washington American gangster. It's a hidden figures
type story, but it's also a moneyball type story because
(37:42):
we're talking about the science of scouting.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, you know, and we really want to.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Get intricate with the science of scouting and how Bill
Nunn found players because it was a unique way in
how he found players as well.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
So that's really dope.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Now I gotta go back a little bit because you
did bring it up. Man, I'm sorry, I think it
It really took off in my own mind because I
was really intrigued by it, and that is the whole
you got into the executive producer.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
You helped with the.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
HBO show documentary b as High, which was about Bishop
Sycamore in the scandal, And look, I gotta be honest
with you, it was good.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
That coach is still throwed off in my book, and
like he still believes like what he did.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Was and it's like it's it's you can't tell that
man nothing.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
So when I heard that you did this, I was like,
I gotta know, I just gotta know, Like what did
you learn from doing that show? What that documentary about
that coach? The situation, like just share with it. Was
it not to just say, man, you full of thank you?
Speaker 5 (38:47):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
You don't know he was lying. Yeah, he acts like
he didn't hear.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
I'll say it.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
How hard was it, bro?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
You full of you?
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Full of it?
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Bro?
Speaker 1 (38:55):
It was?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, because and then like when everybody else found out
that like.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Holdo, holda hold on, this isn't a real school.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, this isn't like it was a whole bunch of
emotions from everybody.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
And so I was so happy that you did that documentary.
Speaker 5 (39:12):
Man, thank you, because that was a documentary that it
caught like wildfire.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
It was one of those things where when the story dropped,
I actually didn't watch the game. I just heard it
on Twitter, just just blowing up. I jokingly I read
an article and jokingly sent it to a colleague of
mind that works with Adam McKay, and I said, we
should go after this story. I didn't know what it
was at the time. I just knew there was a
team that got blown out by the best team in
the country and they should not have been there. There's
(39:41):
a story behind.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
This, and they looked like grown men. But now I
know why they wasn't in shape, so it was grown men.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
So I mean I hit my colleague gop. He sends
me a message from Adam McKay was like, go get
this if you can. So that's all I needed. So
I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram trying to figure out
like some end to the team end up getting in
front of a handful of the players and the coaches.
But mind you, there were other production companies like circling
this story. So I'm an independent producer. I was just
(40:09):
trying to like fight them off for using all American
and go like, hey, I've lived the experience that you
guys are trying to live, Like let's have this conversation
because I know all of y'all could not have been
in on this story, you know, like something's happening here.
I was able to bring Michael Strahan and Adam Kay
together to co producer with myself, and it was just
this crazy.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Story of.
Speaker 5 (40:29):
The truth is owned by whoever has the information, and
for somebody like Roy, there's a grey area there, yeah,
that he lives and thrives in, and if you get
too close to him you can start to believe it too.
You know, there's those long days on set and whatnot
where you're hearing him talk and everything. It's like, you know,
(40:52):
he looks like us, he talks like us and everything.
So you're hearing him, you're like, well, yeah, you are right.
High school football is romanticize assets, like let's do it
for the lower of it all. But it's really a
multi billion dollar year industry. I just want a piece
of it. And you're like, dang, that's you're kind of
right there. So you he throws up a lot of
these half truths, but then he'll sneak in a little
(41:14):
bit of a lie in there and go it's up
to you to find it. So now you're kind of
weeding through what's what and you look up and he's
just smiling at you, like waiting for you to like
see if you did it or not. So it was
it was an interesting two years kind of running and
gutting with their project, going to Columbus, Ohio a few
times out of the year. I think that the kids
who are absolutely wrong in some in some of those situations.
(41:37):
But it's one of those things where I think the
reason why the story hits so hard is because this
wasn't a story that had a nice bowl wrapped around it.
It was a story that goes, if you hate me,
by logic, you have to hate the system of high
school football because the system of high school football allows
me to operate based on the rules that they don't
have in it. So I'm going to be around. I'm
(41:58):
not in jail, and I can do this again. And
I think that's why the doc hit the way it did,
because it wasn't this bad guy gets caught up and
now he's in jail or whatever.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah, I look like your.
Speaker 5 (42:09):
Uncle, I look like somebody you know that football that's
in a position of power, and I'm free to rome. Yes,
you should terrify you if you if you have kids
or anybody you love playing pres sports.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
So true, but I don't even say it was dangerous.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
But to me, it just kind of took over.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
It really did take over the country for a little
bit because nobody can really believe, like, how does that happen?
And so I'm really glad you got to bring that
story to us all and share with us, because we
all were like, how does this like how there's no
way this dude table But it was great that you
were able to share that with us.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
So thank you. I really do thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
I didn't even know that you did that until like,
until we start doing some research on this.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
So I really really appreciate that. Now.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
The thing that a lot of us deal with it's
perception versus reality. And so Coach Vera would always tell us,
you know, perception is reality until you change it.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
And so perceive you how they treat you.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yes, And so I wonder how you have to deal
with this? Is that that how often do you have
to deal with Oh, you're a football player that's trying
to be this writer versus no, no, no, I'm actually more
than the football player, Like I'm a screenwriter now that
used to be a football a football player, and not
(43:30):
saying like and look, for my whole career, I wanted
to be known as more than just a football player.
And then all of a sudden, you're no longer a
football player. And I'm now I'm trying to tell my son, no, no, no, dude,
I used to ball like I can't. And so everybody's
in this constant battle of perception versus reality, and so
with you in this industry, it's a completely different industry
(43:51):
than most of us could never get into and you've
been able to crack into it, and not only that,
but you're a young budding superstar in this realm, Like
how do you constantly deal with that battle? It may
be the pressures that come along with it.
Speaker 5 (44:02):
Yeah, there's definitely pressures with it, Absolutely pressures, And I
think it's It wasn't until recently, maybe like a year
or two ago, where you know when you when you
get when somebody introduces you or you have to introduce
yourself and they're like, oh, what do you you know?
What do you do and everything? You're just like a
how much time do you have? How far do I
go back to start the description of who I am?
(44:22):
And it was really me and maybe about two years ago,
going when I have to introduce myself, I am a writer, producer.
I'm no longer I played in the NFL for a
little bit on the Super Bowl, I made the commitment
to go, I'm a writer producer.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Now what comes with that is.
Speaker 5 (44:39):
Becoming a writer and producer and knowing that when you
say that, you can stand on your word, because if
anybody asked to read something of yours or to see
your work, you can take it out the bag and
go here, take a look. Do you want a feature?
Do you want to do you want a short fielm
do like?
Speaker 1 (44:53):
I have it all?
Speaker 5 (44:54):
So it was it was it was making that decision
a couple of years ago, making sure if find it
how I wanted to define it, because to be honest,
you know, even that first year or so in the
in that transition, there were people even on set of
all Americans, that could not talk to me if they
weren't talking about football or we use a football pun
(45:16):
when there was no reason, like we could be talking
about like the financial market. We'd be talking about real
estate or whatever whatever, and they'll go like, oh, like
it sounds like you really punt it that, you know,
and it's just what are we doing here? Like what
do we didn't need to We didn't need to take
me down that route. Or there's some people, there's some
people on set that would go, hey, if you want
to go play another season, like we'll take it from here.
(45:36):
You just come back when the lights on. I'm like, no,
you guys gotta understand this is what I love. Therefore,
I'm going to be here from sun up to sundown
through the night. A lot of those early scenes the
early season football scenes are shot from five pm to
five am. We call it beating the sun, So it's
being on set during those dog days, during those dark
hours where it's like, if if a box needs to
(45:57):
be moved, I'm fine moving that because that pushes the
production forward. And earlier on there were a few people
that just could not see beyond the bio of, oh,
this guy's an NFL player, so I should only talk
to him aout football because that's all I think he
wants to talk about. So the pressure was there to
go externally. They see me as something, not that I
(46:21):
want to prove them wrong. I'm just trying to prove
myself right. I'm trying to prove myself right in the
fact that this is not my new career. I'm deciding
that this is my new career and now let me
go make it my new career. So it was a
lot of a lot of doubt to start off of
am I going to be the guy that just has
all American on the air. One of my biggest fears,
(46:42):
and I know maybe we all experience it, is when
you leave the league, you feel like this window is
kind of closing. One opportunity you know, the people aren't
going to Maybe some people aren't going to answer that
phone call anymore, they're not going to answer that email.
That code email that you're sending doesn't carry much weight
because it doesn't have Chicago Bears.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Or Caro and Panthers attached to it, you know.
Speaker 5 (47:02):
So I always had that fear of being the guy
that had All American on the air, not being the
guy like, oh yeah, I don't know All American on
the air, but now he has a couple other things
that he's working on. That was my drive of not
not allowing football and even All American to be the
one or two things in my life that were able
(47:23):
to pop off because I'm thirty five years old. All American,
you know, for better or words could be off the
season in the next couple of seas, off the air
in the next couple of years. If I'm ninety years old
still talking about my playing days when you first meet me,
or All American, like, I've kind of failed that life
because I've only lived hopefully my first what third of
my life. Yeah, so's it's that want to continue to
(47:45):
redefine myself, to chase the dreams that I define for myself.
That gets me up, That allows me to pick up
my kids, That allows me to go and say like, hey,
my son, my daughter. I want to be able to
convince you guys that I played football because you guys
have never really seen it before. And it's funny seeing
my son look at like highlights. I've just recently showed
(48:06):
him one of two clips and he's like, are you
serious as you like if you have a homet I
can't like verify if this. I'm like, no, no, that's me,
Like your last name is on that jersey and he's like,
all right, he's only four years old, so he doesn't
understand it. But to me, that is a win because
he has seen me in so many other lights outside
of just being the guy that played on the gridiron.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
So yeah, Well we always trying to ask everybody this question.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
You know, it goes a lot of different ways, and
that is.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Who do you have on your mount rushmore of influence?
Speaker 1 (48:42):
It could be on the field, off the field, this
is yours.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
You get four kind of okay, so you you take
that wherever you want.
Speaker 5 (48:50):
Of influence? I would, I mean Barack Obama's up there
when I remember where I was exactly where I was
when he won the election. Was I was in my
in my house in Eugene, Oregon, doing econ homework, and
the entire town lit up, and I was like, oh man,
(49:11):
I got practice in the morning, you know, so Obama's
up there.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
So hold on because I was not expected Barack Obama
to make the just because of what he accomplished, what
he didn't get in to meet him.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Like, I get it.
Speaker 5 (49:29):
Yeah, it's it's to to know that historically he should
not be there. Not only is he there, like we said,
he knows how to command the room, no doubt not.
Somebody's just happen to be there. He's like, all right,
what are we doing here? Yeah, that's something to me.
That was like I I you can learn how to
move if more than anything, you can learn how to.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Move like Barack Obama. Okay, I like that.
Speaker 5 (49:51):
The next person is sort of an unsung hero is
honestly like Larry Wilmore, you know, writer, producer, super producer
for all the shows that you know, the Insecures of
the World, the Bernie mac Show, like you know, even
dating back to I believe in Living Color, like Larry Wilmore,
Little Larry Wilmore has been sort of a a curator
(50:14):
a black television and film for the past like thirty years.
Like he's the guy that people call to fix problems
on their show. He's the guy to get if a
network has a good writer or director or producer that
they want to like, Okay, we want to give this
person something. We got to sit in the larry first
so he can like kind of put it through the
ringer to make sure the product is just as good.
(50:36):
So he's he's absolutely part of my part of my
Mount Rushmore. Who else would it be? Who else would
it be? He stuck me with this. I would say
my older brother. And the reason why I would say
my older brother, justin Pa Singer, is he taught me
how to respect football. You know, I was actually a
(50:56):
basketball player growing up, and I want to I want
to go to U and CE I want to be
a two guard. And it wasn't until I got to
high school and saw how he carried himself and respected
on his body and what he put into the game
that I was like, if I have to play football
to get to the next level, because my high school
wasn't really send anybody to do want basketball. I now
(51:16):
know how to do that because I saw my older
brother doing that, so he's undoubtedly up there. And lastly,
I will say it would be my grandfather. You know,
my grandfather is somebody that and I know there's a
ton more, but these are the ones that are on
my heart right now. My grandfather was somebody that again
as a project of the Great migration, moving to Los Angeles,
sending his family, sending for his family. Once he raised
(51:39):
a couple couple of dollars, I was able to give
his own place. The house that I grew up in
is the house that he raised my dad and my
dad's brothers in. You know, the house my dad still
lives in that house, and with my son being there,
there's now four generations of pay singers that have that
have populated that house. You know, this is a guy
who he died in one of the richest black neighborhoods
per capital in the country, Literaria Heights. But you look
(52:02):
at his legs and his hands. He still has scars
from picking connon because he was a sharecropper growing up
as a kid. So his life story of going from
sharecropping in playing dealing Louisiana to dying comfortably in his
own bed in the richest black neighborhood. Proa capita in
the country is like to me, like the American dream.
And I recently went to his house that he grew
(52:24):
up in, that we still owned the land in Mississippi
and kids, you and that as soon as I stepped off,
I just started balling. I was by myself. I was
doing speeding engagement in Arkansas. Saw where the house was,
drove that extra hour or so. As soon as I
stepped on the land, I just started balling because I like,
I felt, I felt him, I felt my family, I
felt my ancestors. And I just walked the land for hours,
(52:45):
just picking up things, putting stuff down. And it was
my grandfather, my brother, Larry Wilmore, and Barack Obama top
of mind right now in my heart. Like those are
the guys I will vault any day of the week.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
Well said, Well said, yeah, Will said, I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
Great answer, great answer.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
All right, man, get us out of here.
Speaker 3 (53:09):
Peanut, Hey, thank y'all for tuning in.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
Thank y'all, please like, sure, follow, subscribe Apple Podcasts five stars,
five stars. Give us a rating Apple Podcasts. iHeartRadio app
This is the NFL player second acts, I'm Peanut. That's
wrong that Spence. Hey, y'all, appreciate y'all, Thank y'all for listening.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
We out
What did you learn.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
From doing that show? What that documentary about that coach?
The situation? Like, just share with it? Was it you
not to just say? Man?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
You fully thank you, thank y'all for tuning in.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I'm Peanut tuning and this is the NFL Player's second
act podcast, Roman Harper my co host host. Co host
you like co host hosts? Which one you prefer? Whichever
one's better than you? Anyways?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Can we just get to it all right?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Anyways, all of our viewers and listeners out there, Man,
thank you as always for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Uh give us a rating of review, leave a couple of.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Comments like, follow, like share, follow that whole deal wherever
you pick subscribe.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
There we go. Peanut, you on it today, Baby, I
love it.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Keep bringing the energy, especially wherever you pick up your podcast,
whether it's iHeartRadio, Apple podcasts, Please make sure you tune in.
Continue to pass the word tele a friend to tell
a friend to tell friend.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Peanut.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Who's our special guest today? Man, I mean got to
be the biggest afro we've had on the show.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It is by far the biggest AFRO we've had on
the show. Seven seven year linebacker NFL that he won
super Bowl forty six with the Giants. He's a writer,
he's a producer. He has a production company called More
Street Productions. He is the show All American is loosely
based on his life. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome
to the podcast. Spencer pay Singer.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Hello, Hello, the Pride of the Dara Heights Pride.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
I would say south Central, but Grandpa.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
But now they say it's not even south central anymore.
It's just South La.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
No, no, no. If you're if you're from if you're
from south central, south central, we did not say South La.
If you're a native, it is still south absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
So who says South La.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Then let's cull that up.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Transplants people that lived from the valley that come over.
But if you're from south Central, it is south Central, Okay,
till I die, till I die.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Thomas is all south exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
He's he know my cousin lives in Bigglehood. So yeah, yes,
I like it. I can get down win it.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
I thought south south Los Angeles South LA was a thing,
but no, it's Inglewood, south south Central all day.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I respect it, all right, all right, that's what flatles feel. Spencer.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I got a I got a real question for you,
and I saw your interview with Jamail Hill and found
out that you had your Super Bowl forty six rings stolen.
So have you had have you gotten this ring back?
Have you had it replaced? Because at the time, you're like, dude,
I'm not paying twenty some thousand dollars to get a
new one, so I will just see what happens. And
the guy tried to pawn it once but that didn't happen,
(02:42):
so like, what's up.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
It's still in the wind, still in the wind. It's
it's one of those things that you try not to
think about throughout the year, but well, my best twice
it's like, yeah, thank you, but no, it's it's one
of those things where you know, it's it's probably just
in somebody's shoe box right now, in somebody's top drawer.
But I always said, once I do a concept, whether
it's TV or film, to you know, twenty five thousand dollars.
(03:05):
I was a couple of years ago. With inflation everything happening.
Now that's probably going up there, so.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It's probably closer to thirty one. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
My my goal is to whether a film or TV
show or something that can then you know, pay for it,
but I can't. I can't fit that right now. I
got two kids at home.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I feel you. What about insurance? Then the insurance supposed
to handle.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Some see that's the if you want to get into
the details of it. Insurance lapsed for one month, oh
for one month when we were when we were finishing
the second season of All American and your card is
on what's it an auto renewed? The card expired and
I said, okay, I'll handle it once I get down
shooting All American whatever. That is exactly the time from
(03:43):
that it happened. So I called the insurance company and
said it's lapsed.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So I bet it was happening.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
It was like, we don't have to say got bad luck.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
There, so sorry.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Do you want to explain to everybody that that doesn't know?
Because I heard the interview, so I kind of know
what happened. Do you want to kind of tell it
real quick?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Absolutely, absolutely so. At the beginning of the year a
few years ago, LA just went through like such downport.
To start the year, we found some mold down in
my office. I let the window open, was kind of
cleaning out some stuff. Clean out the ceiling and whatnot.
I unknowingly left the window cracked, literally went out with
my with my wife and my baby girl. My wife
(04:26):
was pregnant at the time. It was the first day
that La had, like, you know, a lot of sun.
So we went to the Farmer's market. We did the
whole thing, west side Farmer's market, the ice cream, the
whole thing. Came back and saw that that window was
jimmied all the way open, so I ran inside, not
knowing exactly what to do. They had literally left maybe
five minutes before we got there. The office was ransacked,
(04:47):
not knowing if they knew what was gonna what was
in there. But yeah, that's that's the gist of it.
So it sucks. But to me, it was one of
those things where it's like, all right, this, I'm already
transitioned out of the game. There's a lot of thing
things happening right now. I'm going to use this as
a moment to go, okay, like, let me double down
on what I'm doing now to potentially get that ring back.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
So yeah, so I've been in two Super Bowls. You've
been in two super Bowls. You got one. I don't
have one. You clearly you have one. What memories do
you have from the Super Bowl?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Man, I think just just realizing in that moment. I
remember one of our first timeouts when we run onto
the field for special teams play, just knowing that legit,
millions of people are watching this game. You know, you
rewind about twelve thirteen months prior to that, I actually
lost a national championship against cam Newton and Auburn, So
in somewhat of a calendar year, going from you know,
(05:40):
the pits of losing national championship playing for Oregon. Ship
carry the whole thing to then fast forward and now
the confetti's falling on us. You know, my dad and
my brother found me within I don't know how they
got into the field so fast, but like within seconds
of the confetti fall and I see my dad and
my brother. I hug them and it's just like tears
of joy. Yeah, that specifically, that last play. I remember
looking at things. Tyler Sash and Greg Jones are rookie
(06:03):
players during my time there, and we didn't see the
last play. We were looking at each other and we said, listen,
so the last play, we know it's gonna be heill
Mary if our side of the phild screams or World
Champions if their side of phild screens.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
We just lost.
Speaker 5 (06:17):
We closed our eyes kind of like just cuddling it
up our side screen. We just took off running. I
don't I don't know what happened those first couple of minutes.
I just know I was like a bat out of hell,
just running.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Run around crazy.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yeah, so you went to the excuse me, so y'all
go to the White House meet President Obama. Did he
have any jokes, because I know when you went to
the White House and you met President Obama, he had
jokes for you.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
He had like old man jokes. He did.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
So, who's the old guy on the team.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, he did.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
He hit me with two old man jokes, and so
he was like, man, you you must be the old
guy on the team. I'm like, nah, bro, I'm like
twenty twenty six, Like no, I just gray hair. He
was like, ah, everybody starts laughing, and then he like
turns back around because I didn't. One of my other
teammates had a mohawk, and he was just like, oh, man,
at least you know how this kind of hair. But
I was like, bro, you kind of getting great like
me too though, So yeah, he had a couple of
(07:04):
jokes from me. So did he have anything? I tell anybody,
I've never seen a person be able to control the
room exactly the way that he did, like the charisma,
the like I don't know what it is, but the
moment he walked into the room, it was just like
he's the guy.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
All the lights, yes, saw on him. Everybody's looking at him,
and he knows it. He knows it, and he can
wield it like an axe. Like for me seeing him
for the you know, the time that I saw him.
I mean I was a rookie at this time, so
I'm on the totem pole. I can imagine like you
talked to Victor Cruz and Eli Mannon and justin talking
those guys like they probably got the stories. With Rock,
I was off to the side, tried like eating crackers
(07:39):
and juice and whatnot. But one thing I really tried
to do was was kind of big up him a
little bit when we were shaking hands, of when he
shook my hand. I tried to come in with like
the power group, like what's up he again? He's trained?
He with the like ah, I got you so I
tried to get one on him.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Ready are coming, I mind trick? You thought you were
going to lead this dance?
Speaker 5 (08:02):
Yeah, yeah, I I got a picture of it too,
and I tell everybody, I'm like, this is the moment
I tried to keep a roack Obama and he came
hit me so knocked me out.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So in twenty seventeen, you actually went to the Carolina Panther, Yes,
and you shared a room with some greats in that room,
former teammates of both of ours, Shaq Thompson, Luke Keighley,
TD was still there before he.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Was on his you know, before he left.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
What was that experience like like being in that room
with that group of guys who who had just come.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Off of Super Bowl back of course.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, really good group too, and they were already kind
of figured out who they are.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Yeah. I mean, you know, shout out to those guys
because you know, they took me on at a time
when I thought I knew for a fact that my
playing crib was done after that season. Oh, I put
it in my mind that you know, I wanted to
play seventy years and walk away before I was thirty.
I didn't know how it was going to happen. You know,
do you know if I was going to be top
of the league, bottom of the league, somewhere in the middle.
But year seven for me was okay, I'm walking away
(08:58):
from this. My time with the Call and Panthers made
me go, maybe I can give one or two more
years out of this because the structure of how that
organization was was put together. You know, whoever owned the
team at the time whatnot, not really talking about them,
but like coach rivera on down, you're talking about guys
who are watching film. You know, six thirty seven am
in the morning, you can't find a room around the
(09:19):
sort of the player quarters that isn't filled with two
or three players at a time. You know, you're sitting
next to Luke Keithley like again Shaq Thompson like, by
the way, like I still owe him push ups and
I'm never going to do this a shout out shot Shock,
I'm not doing your push ups. But it was just
seeing seeing how a linebacker room and defense is supposed
to be ran. You know, the players have voices. You
(09:39):
know that the coaches understood the player's needs at the time.
Shepherd a lot of their a lot of their needs
throughout practicing in the game and just it was a
really dope atmosphere of just collaboration. So when I'd say
I was on my way out, but looking at them
and especially the role that they wanted me to be in,
they can't. They signed me and they say, listen, are
too deepest strong. You come here and just be a
(10:01):
dog on special teams and that's all we need of you.
Come to the defensive meetings and everything, but on special
teams like that is where you shine. I said, I can.
I can do that all day for you.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
So I was fortunate to be with them for about
a month, got cut towards the I think before the
last game of the season, but fortunately enough we submitted
our pilot for All American and that was enough for
me to walk away from the league.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
So here's a question I have when we were there,
Josh Norman J No, he really he paid attention in meetings.
But I remember one meeting specifically, Coach Wolkes is up
there doing something and you know, going over the game plan,
and this food is doing his taxes, no doubt he is,
like legit.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Doing seen him in their opening mail too.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Boy, like he's no, sah, He's doing his taxes and
I'm sitting here like, yo, what is you doing? And
we're undefeated. We're having our you know, our our super
Bowl run season. Is it true that you wrote a
short story?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What is it called? Shortcuts?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Shortcuts?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Did you write the synopsis?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Shortcuts? I did one of the meetings.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
I did so this This was maybe within my first
two weeks of being with the team. Yeah, I was
largely a free agent by last year. It was great
for me because I was working on All American in
the afternoon, training in the morning just to stay in
shape in case the A team called. I get on
with Carolina. Once I figure out the lay of the
land and the flow of everything, all that we're seeing
the defensive meeting whom it's like Wednesday or Thursday when
(11:23):
you put it in like some of the thicker instill
and I just had this idea for a story of
something that I experienced being back in Los Angeles for
the you know, the two or so months that I
was there, of when my barberge just vanished, you know,
and as black men, we understand it like that's a
horror story, no doubt. Trying to understand where you're going
to get your haircut, which is tied to your confidence
and how you present yourself in the world. It was
completely wiped away from me. So I ended up in
(11:45):
our defensive install book writing like I think it got
to like four or five pages of what it would
look like, how the different relationships are tied to, like
emotional relationships that were tied to I look up and
I'm thinking I'm writing for maybe you know, five or
six minutes. It was like four five minutes later, and
it was probably one of the worst practices I've ever had,
because like, I just didn't I didn't write anything down.
(12:06):
So I remember talking to like shocking those guys like Okay,
so what do I have on this? Okay, are you
blessing this time? What's going on?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Thoe? It was like you ain't been there?
Speaker 5 (12:13):
Yeah, But to me it was it was It was
a beautiful experience because I had a moment of terror
of oh wow, I'm about to be exposed as somebody
that's not prepared or whatnot, which I pride in my
career or always being a player that coaches don't have
to worry about. But then right after that, I went
if I can be in a defensive meeting room with
Julius Pepper, Shaq Thompson, you know, TD, Luke Heigley, and
(12:35):
my mind is still on story off in the wind.
This is probably a sign for me to walk away
from the league because I was already sort of starting
my transition, but that was the single most defining moment
of going I think it's time to get away from this.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And so what about screenwriting? Like calmed your nerves? Like
what about it that you figured about yourself? That that
maybe it's taught you about yourself. They're like, man, this
is something I'm really good at it. This is what
makes it so calm for you? Like where does it
take you?
Speaker 5 (13:02):
I think it's just it's a conversation about confidence about
you know, you're essentially a god in this world. Like
you're deciding what color the trees are, You're deciding the characteristics.
You're defining who your main character is, Like what are
their horoscopes? You know, what are their signs and the emotions.
So it's just like for me largely being like a
role player on pretty much all of my teams, like
(13:23):
knowing that I can sort of control the situation I'm
not trying to be the guy that's like you know,
wielding you know, power in that sense. But the idea
of creating something from nothing, you know, taking an idea
and then eventually a couple of years later it gets
on air and becomes what it is in All American.
It's that was the fun part for me of just
understanding that those wild, crazy ideas that I had even
(13:44):
as a kid or even through college. And obviously when
I started, like actually learning how to screenwrite in the NFL,
you know, nothing's crazy, you know, if you put it
down on paper, if you if you understand sort of
the structure of how to screenwrite, the world is just.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
We're gonna take a short break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
So how do you how did you learn the structure
of it? And then I heard you mentioned earlier like
you already had All American Like you were like, you know,
I'm in this meetings, but then I already started on
working on All Americans, So like when did that kind
of start? And then like how do you get this structure?
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (14:23):
So the structure actually came over the course of a
few years. So the NF off day on Tuesday, when
you know, we're all sore, beat up. We go to
rehab in the morning, but we're really just like laying
on the couch, like licking our wounds throughout the rest
of the day, gearing up for you know, playing the
next game. Every off day on Tuesday, I would see
a new movie, didn't matter runtime length, whatever, like that
(14:44):
was my ritual. Ritual was going to dinner and then
seeing over the couple of years. The first couple of years,
I just started understanding story structure just by watching it,
just being like, okay, well this is a low point,
this is a high point. Oh he has to make
a decision at this point, and just really like allow
and get to like just absorbing to me to the
point where I said, okay, I see some stuff that's happening.
(15:05):
Some of this stuff isn't really I would do something different.
Let me see if I can do something different. So
I started downloading screenplays, and for those of you like
listening any screenplay, arguably any screenplay that you want that
you want to read, just type in the name of
it in PDF and that script will probably pop up
in some form on the Internet. So I was just
doing that for a couple of years, reading books on screenwriting,
(15:25):
watching YouTube videos, and it really became that thing that
would sort of bring down my adrenaline levels after games. So,
you know, guys, are you know, playing cards on the plane,
watching watching the tape, or you know, drinking a little
something on the plane. You know, I was off to
the side watching movies with subtitles. Sometimes I watch movies
if I'm really tired, watching movies with no sound or nothing,
(15:47):
just to see if the feeling is still emoting off
the screen based on the words that that aren't being
said to me. So it was really just an immersive
experience that I was like, this is just interesting to learn.
And one thing led to another where I had a
chance meeting with somebody and sent them a little bit
of what I was working on, not necessarily all American centric,
but just saying, hey, like, I'm writing something. I just
(16:08):
want to know if it's interesting. And then that ended
up getting me my first meeting with Greg Blanty.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Was it How was it when you so?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Was it easier having all these projects before you left
the game? Because I think a lot of guys they
find a little bit of struggle as they transition and
they're trying to figure out what they want to do.
But to me, it's sound or when I'm hearing you say,
is like I had all this stuff ready, I was
writing scripts.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
It may be because there's pressure when you don't have,
like I'm not doing football, yeah yeah, And so like
there's no pressure when you're just kind of just riding
in the win.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah yeah, kind of being in the moment.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
No pressure. There was no pressure for me. I mean again,
I was never the fifteen hundred million dollar guy.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I was.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
I was a special teams guy that could could look
at the roster and go, okay, I'm really in competition
for maybe four or five guys on this team for
those couple of special team spots. So knowing that, you know,
even coming to the lead, I always did some type
of job, shouting experience internship. I was a guy shaking hands,
grabbing cars, following up with coffees, that type of stuff.
Did a couple of internships. My most prominent one was
(17:10):
a marketing internship re Quest Diagnostics. So it's Madison, New Jersey.
It's right after the season. I'm licking my wounds, but
I'm still you know, I have my little J crew
bag and I got my little office, and it allowed
me to just understand where my position can be once
a walk away from the game. I have an econ
degree from University of Oregon, so I always thought, Okay,
(17:30):
New York giant econ degree, something's going to happen with
Wall Street, business finance, something in that world. But screenwriting
was just this hobby that just got louder and louder
in my mind. So it's not that I really had
any specific story I wanted to tell walking Away from
the Game, but it was just literally a chance meeting
of my now producing partner Day and Mork where the
first time I met him was in my bi week
(17:52):
year six, and we were just talking about both being
from Los Angeles, growing up in Los Angeles him and
Palace Roadies me in South Central and having to two
different perspectives of what LA is, but yet we're out
in the world. It's like, no, we're both from LA
You just know what that comes with. So after a
few weeks I went back to playing, he called me
and said, Hey, I had this weird meeting with Greg Berlanti.
(18:13):
I told them about you. He said, it might be
interesting that there's a black kid that goes to Bedlo's
High school. Made to the league and teach him starting
to right. Can he send me something? So I literally
put my playbook aside. I remember, it's like Wednesday or
Thursday night, put my playbook aside and wrote a one
page document about just the ebbs and flows of what
became all American. And by that time I had known
(18:33):
how to take you on the ride of a compelling story.
So I sent that off. A couple weeks later, I
get a call from them saying, something's interesting here, and
I knew statistically we were eliminated from the playoffs. So
I set that meeting like a month in advance, and
my first day back in LA in the offseason, I
went to Warner Brothers, sat down, had a conversation with him,
and then I think two or three weeks later we
(18:54):
went into contract negotiations.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
That's fast.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, that thing really heated up. Yeah, I don't know
what was on. Do you still have a copy of
that one page?
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, I was wondering, like, you got to like put
that up somewhere because you really hit.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Them with it. One page.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Yeah, it was It wasn't even that it was like
more like a paragraph, but it was essentially just playing
into the fact that no matter who you are, if
you're the fire hundred million dollar man or the guy
just walking down the street, we all know what it
feels like to live a universal truth of being an
outsider in a new world. So, yes, the shows about
a young black kid from South Central going to bell
(19:31):
It was high and then potentially into the NFL, but
it was also the story of an outsider entering a
new land. And that's something that no matter who you are,
race create ethnicity, like, you understand what that universal feeling is.
And largely when you are pitching a concept like that
that can go on a CW or Fox or what
have you, you want to capture a broader audience than
who you just think is going to watch this. So
(19:53):
you know, I was really just writing these stories to
to understand where my position would be outside of the league.
But then once James became a full embodiment of a person,
it was like, Okay, I think we could do some
good here.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
So but was that easy to sell them because you
actually lived it? You know what I'm saying, Like just
I'm just saying from the standpoint of like living in
South Central, But then now you're going around and like
you from You're from a ton of black people, right,
so every day you see people that look like you,
and then all of a sudden, you're in this new
(20:25):
space and nobody looks like you. I have similar experience
with that. I'm from a military side of the family
or a military background, right, So I was always the
guy who didn't there wasn't a lot of people that
looked like me. So then I went to Chicago South Side,
and then I went to a school, and then everybody
(20:45):
looked like me, and I thought that was weird.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I was like, what are white people like?
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, I had black teachers, black janitor, black principle. But
for me, that was like so weird because I had
always just been like the minority and I was cool
with I guess I was used to it. So then
when I was placing that situation like what are what age?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Is that? What a what a?
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Hispanics said? What are where everybody else at?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I was used to growing up in the military, like
it's you got a melting pot of some of everybody.
So for me, at an early age, I experienced that.
And I know you said that to one of your interviews,
like by the time he was thirteen, and then you
get to high school, and then when you get to college,
you're like, yo, this is I lived this at fourteen already,
Like I'm good, so I can I can navigate these worlds.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Like how was that it was?
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Going to your point? You know, sort of navigating both
those worlds, you get comfortable in that swim, you know,
for me as thirteen, fourteen years old being thrust into
Beverly Hills out you know, even the real stories. My
uncles had football coach at Beverly, so I had known
from from I know, I had known if Beverly was
high school as the school I knew I was probably
gonna have to go to. But it was largely because
(21:53):
my family had a football presence there right that was
never really on campus beyond the Friday night games being
maybe the water boy, the ball boy, what have you.
But once I got there and I realized, like, oh,
I just went from you know, South central Englewood, which
is predominantly black and Latino, to you know, predominantly Jewish,
Asian and or other. Beverly was two percent black. But
that two percent are still largely friends to this day.
(22:15):
Like there's maybe twenty or thirty of those people that
I still talk to on a daily basis because we
have this crazy, insane group chat that like will get
us all put in jail if.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
We all got one, we all got one, say less.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
But what it allowed me to do or experience at
such a young age was to know that, you know,
weir are deeper than our skin color.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
You know.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Was it allowed me to understand so many different faiths,
creeds and ethnicities at a young age, the point where
a lot of the stuff that's happening today, I can
hit my friends from from back in the day and go,
how are you slash your community? Like experiencing this like
let me know. But then on the other hand, it
allowed me to be comfortable in any room I walked into.
So to your point about about even going to Oregon,
(22:55):
organ was also two percent white, I mean two percent black.
So I'm walking in, I'm like, oh, I've been here before.
I know how to move and shake in this land
where I did have a handful of players that kind of,
you know, click up with the team and don't really
experience life outside of just being in a little ecosystem
of football. But I will credit a handful of those
guys that they kind of looked at me and was like, Okay,
(23:16):
he's not really from our experience, because you know, when
you look at the bios, it says Spencer Pacing and
Los Angeles Beverly was high school, it doesn't say South Central,
but went to Bedlis High School. So a lot of
my teammates just casually kind of pushed me to the
side because they didn't think I came from a lived
experience with them. It wasn't until they could relate to you. Yeah,
it wasn't until and I knew what they were experienced,
but they were experiencing something at eighteen nineteen that I
(23:39):
experienced at thirteen fourteen. So I was like, Okay, I'm
not gonna damn you guys for thinking one thing or
another for me about me. But in a sort of
a beautiful way, All American allowed for some of those
conversations to come back around. Now I had a handful
of my college players. I was like, hey, man, like
I actually didn't realize like you were from South Central.
I know you told us, but we just didn't leave
(24:00):
you back then. And I was like, no, I understand,
it's not I'm not fighting for my identity. I was
comfortable in my identity and who I was, right, you know,
I credit those those players that end up hitting me
up when they really didn't have to to go. Okay, like,
we see you, you weren't you weren't lying to us?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Right? Uh? Tell me this though. So you entered the
NFL as a rookie, Yes, win a super Bowl? Yes?
All right?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So now you enter into this second act as a
screenwriter and have a massive hit.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yes, right in there? Right? I mean you told us like, dude,
I was in contract, I talked to two weeks.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So you know, the odds of that are extremely low, astronomical.
And so when I when we bring that up, does
that what is it when we just take a step
back from that, Like, do you ever realize how how
much you're accomplished in like and how the odds are
against you to do that? And when I say these
(24:55):
things to you, how does that make you feel inside?
Speaker 5 (24:58):
It allows me to take a moment go while like
that happen. Whenever somebody says that it makes that connection,
I'm just like, how did I even get here? You know,
I'm only thirty five and I still feel like I
have so much life to live and so many other
careers to even partake in. But to understand ironically all
American season production season and like an NFL season like
(25:20):
eerily mimic the same sort of cadence. You know, we
start writing the current season in the springtime, we go
into production in the fall time, which will be fall camp.
We premiere in their early fall, and then go the
next few months, which is an NFL season. So one
thing that was really dope for me is to in
that pivot, in that transition. It was the cadence kind
(25:41):
of largely remaining the same of.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
When I was to like get up, you get right
back in the games.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
So to feel that, to understand like there's a bit
of survivor remorse with that of why was either person
And there's there's a long history of reasons of how
I became this person is not just me. It's eighty
dates back even to my grandparents and my great grandparents
being part of the great migration. So it's me honoring
(26:06):
them as much as I as much as you say,
like all these great things, Like I'm thinking of my
grandparents and my great grandparents right now because I'm like
you guys, made those decisions to like get out to
Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, where'd they come from?
Speaker 5 (26:18):
So on my dad's side, they largely came from Mississippi
and Michigan. Say, in Mississippi, yeah, and then on my
mom's side Louisiana. I'm sorry, Louisiana and Michigan. On my
mom's side in Mississippi. So great migration product of it.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Memphis ten, that's where mine came from. Moved straight up
to Chicago. Yeah, mine just kind of stayed in Alaba state.
They was like, we never got out.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
We like that and we'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
So all American and you're in your sixth season, right,
So you get there, you pitch this idea, you tell
your story to a bunch of writers in the writer's room, right,
and then all of a sudden they come back and
they give you a brand new product and you're like,
wait a minute, this thing happened like this was a
brother Latino. Wait wait that that happened that wait, wait
(27:11):
a minute, like the whole thing had changed. How hard
was that to trust the process and just say, let
us take this, we got you this, this is what
we do. When you know your experience and you can
tell your story better than anybody.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
You lived it, you know how it is?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
How hard was that to trust the process of letting
your writers just do what they do?
Speaker 5 (27:31):
Oh man, it was multifaceted. So when you're to your point,
because I love like you guys to do your homework,
and I feel like they do their homework. The original
script see the original The original script actually had a
lot of people to know this, But Billy Baker was
originally Latino, which then changes dethnicity of his two kids.
And when I first got that and I thought I was,
(27:52):
I wasn't mad at it. I was mad more so
that like, this wasn't my story. The fact that you know,
we all have our own history that we that we
that we vault and if anybody attempts to change that,
we go hold on. That's not what happened. That was
happening to me at a at a network level that
millions of people are going to see. So there was
some initial trust from from the early riders are going, Hey,
(28:15):
in order to tell a compelling story, we have to
sort of change a couple of things to make sure
the teenage girl is watching this for the same reason
the sixty year old man is watching this because there's
a structure to writing a teen drama. So it was
allowing myself to go, Okay, I'm gonna see I'm gonna
trust you guys, but like, just can we tweak a
couple of things, And you know, credit to some of
(28:35):
the early writers and whatnot and which largely allow them
to still on the show to today. They allowed me
to come in and tell my stories and put them
in organic ways to elevate the show. And you know,
arguably so our first season, our original showrunner stepped away
in k and KEETCHR. Corel Carroll then took over as
a showwner and is now still the showrunner. She has,
(28:56):
I believe, three shows on air incredible black women, incredible
strong writer, amazing, amazing mentor amazing champion for stories about us.
If she didn't take the reins when she did, All
American maybe goes half a season, maybe a full season,
and it's kind of just like lost to history. So
those early couple of years of understanding that Spencer James
(29:20):
is now changing my own history, it messed me for
a little bit. I will be completely like extremely vulnerable
with you because again, our history, like our lived experience,
is something that like we vault, that's our story that
we own that if nothing else in the world. And
now I have people looking at me kind of mad
(29:40):
that I actually didn't get shot like it sells like
it says in the TV show. I've literally had high
schoolers go, oh man, you've never been shot before, and
I'm like, no, like you don't want I shouldn't. That's
not a bad thing. So it was it was getting
to a point where, you know, realizing Spencer James had
to serve a purpose larger than just telling my story.
It was Spencer James and the cast largely reflect the
(30:02):
teen experience in America today, and for the past couple
of years, we always felt every seventy ten years, there
comes that teen drama that sort of defines an era.
You know, it's Friday Night Lights, It's Gilmore Girls, One
Tree Hill, nine to two, or oh, those type of shows.
Those shows never really had a black lead. Those shows
never had black characters going through you know, unapologetically black stuff.
(30:24):
And we felt, if we did this right, all Americans
stand up there next to those iconic teen dramas as
just the next spoken the will of teen dramas going
down the road.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
So I mean, that's a great explanation. So but I
got to take it back just a little bit personal.
So at any point in time you like y'all won't
give my script and I'm going along.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Like did you did that ever happen?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
And I want to know early on when you're starting
to see some of these things where you like like nah,
this that ain't it, Like I want to come in
like this has to happen because that was because trying
to keep it real right right, because it is it
is your story, yeah, And so when you have to
be able to give up the reins like this, I'm
just like, man, that's got to be so hard because
not only is this my story, but this.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Is my life.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yes, yes, And so you kind of spoke on that
a little bit, but I just want to know from
a personal standpoint, at any point till me like nah, bro,
like I'm taking my home, like.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Nah, there I go somewhere else.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
There were a couple of times where I had to
have those hard conversations with the early showgrun of.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Just like why is this in here? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (31:28):
To explain this to me because I do not see
a path forward with this being in here. Yeah, and
you know, credit to them and the staff.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
That's a very professional way to say that.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Well, so here's the thing, like I knew, especially in
those early days, what an opportunity this was. I knew
that this was if I've spent the last four to
five years teaching myself how to scream, right, and now
I have people attempting to tell my story, I can
use this. This is allowing me to get into the door,
and now I can get busy in this world. So
it wasn't so much being shortsighted of I'm taking my
(31:58):
ball and going home. It was Okay, I see some
folks up stuff, But how can I massage this in
a way to where like we're still moving things forward,
my voice is still heard. But then I'm also allowing
this to spawn out and create other opportunities. So it
was having that foresight to know to know that.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
So I guess what I don't understand. What I'm confused
on is you have a group of writers, right, yes,
so they write the story. Do you write anything else
when they when it comes out? Or is it just
they write it and you make a couple edits or
like how much?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
How much? How much?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Not even releverage.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
How much pool do.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
You have when you say no, let's change that, so
add this, do this, take that out.
Speaker 5 (32:37):
What's amazing about our writer's room, especially again shout out
to NK and our staff, is it is an extremely
collaborative experience. It's never and for people in the writer's room,
it's never you go off and write the script. You
go off and write the script and then we'll just
come back and make sure everything's aligned. Every scene, every emotion,
every dialogue is poured over by ten writers including me
(32:58):
and the Showbunner got it. Well, it's not so much
I'm going I'm writing this, I need you to write
the rest of it, or let me see a review
to make sure it's good. It's before a word is
even written, that writer who's tasked with writing that episode
has a ten to twelve page document going by scene,
who's in the scene, what emotions are coming from the scene,
(33:19):
what are we getting out of that scene to then
go off and write it. And that is what's largely
with especially in the earlier seasons that I had such
a great hand in helping craft. Now like I'm involved
as much as I can be. I have a couple
other projects that are in development right now in various stages.
So it's like I can't be there as much as
I can be, but whenever I go there, we get
right back into it.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
You know.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
It is genuinely a family slash ecosystem because our showrunner,
if you do good work for our show runner, NK,
she will elevate you within the world of.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
All American Yeah, so what other projects I know you
just mentioned. What other projects are you working on that
you can speak of?
Speaker 5 (33:55):
Yeah, so the you know, I'm currently writing a film
for Kevin Hart's company. I pitch them a story.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Again.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
We're in Inglewood right now. I went to school in
Ingwood from K through eighth and it's a story about
a young black kid from Inglewood seeking his first kiss
before the end of the world. It takes place the
week of winter break, right before Y two k hits,
so December nineteen ninety nine, and it's every bit of
the wood, a little Scott Pilgrim versus the world, just
(34:21):
like some like some of those neighborhood movies where you know, yes,
the world is ending, but all this kid, our main
character cares about is getting his first kids. So it's
sort of an ode to my elementary school, in my
middle school. A lot of the names that populate the
script are my friends. A lot of them are still
my friends till today. Another film i'm writing, actually, you know,
because we are where we are, is I'm writing a
(34:42):
film about Bill None. Bill None the second. So Bill
Nunn was actually like one of the greatest NFL scouts
to ever live. He's right now the only black man
to enter the NFL, the NFL Hall of Fame without
ever playing the game. You know, this is a guy
who in nineteen sixty nine Dan Rooney hired him or
convinced him to join the Steelers staff when the Steelers
were one of the worst in net organizations in the NFL,
(35:06):
and from sixty seven I think you passed away. I
want to say in twenty fourteen he was sort of
the architect behind what we know the Steelers to be today.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
You know, he in.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Nineteen seventy four he found or was technically the architect
behind the greatest draft class of any sport ever. Where
you guys know, if you're a general manager, you find
one Hall of famer, you're like, I can hang my
hat on that. He orchestrated a nineteen seventy four draft
that found them five and one draft, four drafted and
one undrafted guy in Donnie Shale. So it's this crazy
(35:37):
cool story of how a black scout in nineteen sixty
seven through nineteen seventy four created a energy, a dynamic
around the changing of the black athlete from the more subdued,
respectable Jackie Robinson in the sixties, mid sixties and whatnot
to the changing of the ties. And now you're getting,
you know, a Jim Brown, You're getting a Muhammad Ali,
(35:59):
You're getting those guys go hey, if you hit me,
I'm gonna hit you back. So it's this cool story
of how a guy is essentially shepherding a new black
athlete into the NFL, making them realize they actually have
power in this space. So really excited about that. I've
been working with the family. Actually spent some time with
the Pittsburgh Steelers about I think it was last year
the year before, just going through the archives, meeting with
(36:22):
all the Woney family as much as many as I could,
Mike Tomlin. Mike Tomlin even says personally, there are conversations
that me and Bill Nunn Junior had that I cannot
tell anybody, you know, it's just it's he was such
a powerful person. And you know, Lord wheeling like, we're
creating an incredibly dope story kind of with a little
(36:42):
splash of black sportation in it because of the time.
This was a time in the in the seventies where
you know, black athletes, specifically the NFL. You know, you're
seeing the Me and Joe Greens become who they were.
This is also the time when black sportation was at
was at pretty much an all time high. This was
the new next wave in cinema. I can only imagine
what that looked like being a black player in the
(37:04):
NFL seeing yourself for the first time in a shaft
or superfly and as a person of prominence and it's
not getting killed at the end of the film and
outsmarting people. How does that play on the field when
you can see yourself for the first time in film
being vaulted as a superhero and not a villain.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
You know?
Speaker 5 (37:22):
So, yeah, really cool story. I'm really excited to do it.
We've been working on a story for some time now,
and the materials are just about done. I'm just doing
some small tailoring. But to me, Bill on Dream was
every bit Denzel Washington American gangster. It's a hidden figures
type story, but it's also a moneyball type story because
(37:42):
we're talking about the science of scouting.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, you know, and we really want to.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Get intricate with the science of scouting and how Bill
Nunn found players because it was a unique way in
how he found players as well.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
So that's really dope.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Now I gotta go back a little bit because you
did bring it up. Man, I'm sorry, I think it
It really took off in my own mind because I
was really intrigued by it, and that is the whole
you got into the executive producer.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
You helped with the.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
HBO show documentary b as High, which was about Bishop
Sycamore in the scandal, And look, I gotta be honest
with you, it was good.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
That coach is still throwed off in my book, and
like he still believes like what he did.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Was and it's like it's it's you can't tell that
man nothing.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
So when I heard that you did this, I was like,
I gotta know, I just gotta know, Like what did
you learn from doing that show? What that documentary about
that coach? The situation, like just share with it. Was
it not to just say, man, you full of thank you?
Speaker 5 (38:47):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
You don't know he was lying. Yeah, he acts like
he didn't hear.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
I'll say it.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
How hard was it, bro?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
You full of you?
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Full of it?
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Bro?
Speaker 1 (38:55):
It was?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, because and then like when everybody else found out
that like.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Holdo, holda hold on, this isn't a real school.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, this isn't like it was a whole bunch of
emotions from everybody.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
And so I was so happy that you did that documentary.
Speaker 5 (39:12):
Man, thank you, because that was a documentary that it
caught like wildfire.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
It was one of those things where when the story dropped,
I actually didn't watch the game. I just heard it
on Twitter, just just blowing up. I jokingly I read
an article and jokingly sent it to a colleague of
mind that works with Adam McKay, and I said, we
should go after this story. I didn't know what it
was at the time. I just knew there was a
team that got blown out by the best team in
the country and they should not have been there. There's
(39:41):
a story behind.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
This, and they looked like grown men. But now I
know why they wasn't in shape, so it was grown men.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
So I mean I hit my colleague gop. He sends
me a message from Adam McKay was like, go get
this if you can. So that's all I needed. So
I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram trying to figure out
like some end to the team end up getting in
front of a handful of the players and the coaches.
But mind you, there were other production companies like circling
this story. So I'm an independent producer. I was just
(40:09):
trying to like fight them off for using all American
and go like, hey, I've lived the experience that you
guys are trying to live, Like let's have this conversation
because I know all of y'all could not have been
in on this story, you know, like something's happening here.
I was able to bring Michael Strahan and Adam Kay
together to co producer with myself, and it was just
this crazy.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Story of.
Speaker 5 (40:29):
The truth is owned by whoever has the information, and
for somebody like Roy, there's a grey area there, yeah,
that he lives and thrives in, and if you get
too close to him you can start to believe it too.
You know, there's those long days on set and whatnot
where you're hearing him talk and everything. It's like, you know,
(40:52):
he looks like us, he talks like us and everything.
So you're hearing him, you're like, well, yeah, you are right.
High school football is romanticize assets, like let's do it
for the lower of it all. But it's really a
multi billion dollar year industry. I just want a piece
of it. And you're like, dang, that's you're kind of
right there. So you he throws up a lot of
these half truths, but then he'll sneak in a little
(41:14):
bit of a lie in there and go it's up
to you to find it. So now you're kind of
weeding through what's what and you look up and he's
just smiling at you, like waiting for you to like
see if you did it or not. So it was
it was an interesting two years kind of running and
gutting with their project, going to Columbus, Ohio a few
times out of the year. I think that the kids
who are absolutely wrong in some in some of those situations.
(41:37):
But it's one of those things where I think the
reason why the story hits so hard is because this
wasn't a story that had a nice bowl wrapped around it.
It was a story that goes, if you hate me,
by logic, you have to hate the system of high
school football because the system of high school football allows
me to operate based on the rules that they don't
have in it. So I'm going to be around. I'm
(41:58):
not in jail, and I can do this again. And
I think that's why the doc hit the way it did,
because it wasn't this bad guy gets caught up and
now he's in jail or whatever.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah, I look like your.
Speaker 5 (42:09):
Uncle, I look like somebody you know that football that's
in a position of power, and I'm free to rome. Yes,
you should terrify you if you if you have kids
or anybody you love playing pres sports.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
So true, but I don't even say it was dangerous.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
But to me, it just kind of took over.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
It really did take over the country for a little
bit because nobody can really believe, like, how does that happen?
And so I'm really glad you got to bring that
story to us all and share with us, because we
all were like, how does this like how there's no
way this dude table But it was great that you
were able to share that with us.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
So thank you. I really do thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
I didn't even know that you did that until like,
until we start doing some research on this.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
So I really really appreciate that. Now.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
The thing that a lot of us deal with it's
perception versus reality. And so Coach Vera would always tell us,
you know, perception is reality until you change it.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
And so perceive you how they treat you.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yes, And so I wonder how you have to deal
with this? Is that that how often do you have
to deal with Oh, you're a football player that's trying
to be this writer versus no, no, no, I'm actually more
than the football player, Like I'm a screenwriter now that
used to be a football a football player, and not
(43:30):
saying like and look, for my whole career, I wanted
to be known as more than just a football player.
And then all of a sudden, you're no longer a
football player. And I'm now I'm trying to tell my son, no, no, no, dude,
I used to ball like I can't. And so everybody's
in this constant battle of perception versus reality, and so
with you in this industry, it's a completely different industry
(43:51):
than most of us could never get into and you've
been able to crack into it, and not only that,
but you're a young budding superstar in this realm, Like
how do you constantly deal with that battle? It may
be the pressures that come along with it.
Speaker 5 (44:02):
Yeah, there's definitely pressures with it, Absolutely pressures, And I
think it's It wasn't until recently, maybe like a year
or two ago, where you know when you when you
get when somebody introduces you or you have to introduce
yourself and they're like, oh, what do you you know?
What do you do and everything? You're just like a
how much time do you have? How far do I
go back to start the description of who I am?
(44:22):
And it was really me and maybe about two years ago,
going when I have to introduce myself, I am a writer, producer.
I'm no longer I played in the NFL for a
little bit on the Super Bowl, I made the commitment
to go, I'm a writer producer.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Now what comes with that is.
Speaker 5 (44:39):
Becoming a writer and producer and knowing that when you
say that, you can stand on your word, because if
anybody asked to read something of yours or to see
your work, you can take it out the bag and
go here, take a look. Do you want a feature?
Do you want to do you want a short fielm
do like?
Speaker 1 (44:53):
I have it all?
Speaker 5 (44:54):
So it was it was it was making that decision
a couple of years ago, making sure if find it
how I wanted to define it, because to be honest,
you know, even that first year or so in the
in that transition, there were people even on set of
all Americans, that could not talk to me if they
weren't talking about football or we use a football pun
(45:16):
when there was no reason, like we could be talking
about like the financial market. We'd be talking about real
estate or whatever whatever, and they'll go like, oh, like
it sounds like you really punt it that, you know,
and it's just what are we doing here? Like what
do we didn't need to We didn't need to take
me down that route. Or there's some people, there's some
people on set that would go, hey, if you want
to go play another season, like we'll take it from here.
(45:36):
You just come back when the lights on. I'm like, no,
you guys gotta understand this is what I love. Therefore,
I'm going to be here from sun up to sundown
through the night. A lot of those early scenes the
early season football scenes are shot from five pm to
five am. We call it beating the sun, So it's
being on set during those dog days, during those dark
hours where it's like, if if a box needs to
(45:57):
be moved, I'm fine moving that because that pushes the
production forward. And earlier on there were a few people
that just could not see beyond the bio of, oh,
this guy's an NFL player, so I should only talk
to him aout football because that's all I think he
wants to talk about. So the pressure was there to
go externally. They see me as something, not that I
(46:21):
want to prove them wrong. I'm just trying to prove
myself right. I'm trying to prove myself right in the
fact that this is not my new career. I'm deciding
that this is my new career and now let me
go make it my new career. So it was a
lot of a lot of doubt to start off of
am I going to be the guy that just has
all American on the air. One of my biggest fears,
(46:42):
and I know maybe we all experience it, is when
you leave the league, you feel like this window is
kind of closing. One opportunity you know, the people aren't
going to Maybe some people aren't going to answer that
phone call anymore, they're not going to answer that email.
That code email that you're sending doesn't carry much weight
because it doesn't have Chicago Bears.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Or Caro and Panthers attached to it, you know.
Speaker 5 (47:02):
So I always had that fear of being the guy
that had All American on the air, not being the
guy like, oh yeah, I don't know All American on
the air, but now he has a couple other things
that he's working on. That was my drive of not
not allowing football and even All American to be the
one or two things in my life that were able
(47:23):
to pop off because I'm thirty five years old. All American,
you know, for better or words could be off the
season in the next couple of seas, off the air
in the next couple of years. If I'm ninety years old
still talking about my playing days when you first meet me,
or All American, like, I've kind of failed that life
because I've only lived hopefully my first what third of
my life. Yeah, so's it's that want to continue to
(47:45):
redefine myself, to chase the dreams that I define for myself.
That gets me up, That allows me to pick up
my kids, That allows me to go and say like, hey,
my son, my daughter. I want to be able to
convince you guys that I played football because you guys
have never really seen it before. And it's funny seeing
my son look at like highlights. I've just recently showed
(48:06):
him one of two clips and he's like, are you
serious as you like if you have a homet I
can't like verify if this. I'm like, no, no, that's me,
Like your last name is on that jersey and he's like,
all right, he's only four years old, so he doesn't
understand it. But to me, that is a win because
he has seen me in so many other lights outside
of just being the guy that played on the gridiron.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
So yeah, Well we always trying to ask everybody this question.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
You know, it goes a lot of different ways, and
that is.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Who do you have on your mount rushmore of influence?
Speaker 1 (48:42):
It could be on the field, off the field, this
is yours.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
You get four kind of okay, so you you take
that wherever you want.
Speaker 5 (48:50):
Of influence? I would, I mean Barack Obama's up there
when I remember where I was exactly where I was
when he won the election. Was I was in my
in my house in Eugene, Oregon, doing econ homework, and
the entire town lit up, and I was like, oh man,
(49:11):
I got practice in the morning, you know, so Obama's
up there.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
So hold on because I was not expected Barack Obama
to make the just because of what he accomplished, what
he didn't get in to meet him.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Like, I get it.
Speaker 5 (49:29):
Yeah, it's it's to to know that historically he should
not be there. Not only is he there, like we said,
he knows how to command the room, no doubt not.
Somebody's just happen to be there. He's like, all right,
what are we doing here? Yeah, that's something to me.
That was like I I you can learn how to
move if more than anything, you can learn how to.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Move like Barack Obama. Okay, I like that.
Speaker 5 (49:51):
The next person is sort of an unsung hero is
honestly like Larry Wilmore, you know, writer, producer, super producer
for all the shows that you know, the Insecures of
the World, the Bernie mac Show, like you know, even
dating back to I believe in Living Color, like Larry Wilmore,
Little Larry Wilmore has been sort of a a curator
(50:14):
a black television and film for the past like thirty years.
Like he's the guy that people call to fix problems
on their show. He's the guy to get if a
network has a good writer or director or producer that
they want to like, Okay, we want to give this
person something. We got to sit in the larry first
so he can like kind of put it through the
ringer to make sure the product is just as good.
(50:36):
So he's he's absolutely part of my part of my
Mount Rushmore. Who else would it be? Who else would
it be? He stuck me with this. I would say
my older brother. And the reason why I would say
my older brother, justin Pa Singer, is he taught me
how to respect football. You know, I was actually a
(50:56):
basketball player growing up, and I want to I want
to go to U and CE I want to be
a two guard. And it wasn't until I got to
high school and saw how he carried himself and respected
on his body and what he put into the game
that I was like, if I have to play football
to get to the next level, because my high school
wasn't really send anybody to do want basketball. I now
(51:16):
know how to do that because I saw my older
brother doing that, so he's undoubtedly up there. And lastly,
I will say it would be my grandfather. You know,
my grandfather is somebody that and I know there's a
ton more, but these are the ones that are on
my heart right now. My grandfather was somebody that again
as a project of the Great migration, moving to Los Angeles,
sending his family, sending for his family. Once he raised
(51:39):
a couple couple of dollars, I was able to give
his own place. The house that I grew up in
is the house that he raised my dad and my
dad's brothers in. You know, the house my dad still
lives in that house, and with my son being there,
there's now four generations of pay singers that have that
have populated that house. You know, this is a guy
who he died in one of the richest black neighborhoods
per capital in the country, Literaria Heights. But you look
(52:02):
at his legs and his hands. He still has scars
from picking connon because he was a sharecropper growing up
as a kid. So his life story of going from
sharecropping in playing dealing Louisiana to dying comfortably in his
own bed in the richest black neighborhood. Proa capita in
the country is like to me, like the American dream.
And I recently went to his house that he grew
(52:24):
up in, that we still owned the land in Mississippi
and kids, you and that as soon as I stepped off,
I just started balling. I was by myself. I was
doing speeding engagement in Arkansas. Saw where the house was,
drove that extra hour or so. As soon as I
stepped on the land, I just started balling because I like,
I felt, I felt him, I felt my family, I
felt my ancestors. And I just walked the land for hours,
(52:45):
just picking up things, putting stuff down. And it was
my grandfather, my brother, Larry Wilmore, and Barack Obama top
of mind right now in my heart. Like those are
the guys I will vault any day of the week.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
Well said, Well said, yeah, Will said, I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
Great answer, great answer.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
All right, man, get us out of here.
Speaker 3 (53:09):
Peanut, Hey, thank y'all for tuning in.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
Thank y'all, please like, sure, follow, subscribe Apple Podcasts five stars,
five stars. Give us a rating Apple Podcasts. iHeartRadio app
This is the NFL player second acts, I'm Peanut. That's
wrong that Spence. Hey, y'all, appreciate y'all, Thank y'all for listening.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
We out
Hosts And Creators
Charles “Peanut” Tillman
Roman Harper
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