The Season with Peter Schrager: Lions GM Brad Holmes [Encore]

NOTE: This episode originally aired July 11, 2023.

Lions GM Brad Holmes had to take an unorthodox path to his current position as GM, but used the life lessons obtained along the way to empower him on his journey. Holmes discusses his time as an Enterprise Car Rental employee, his work as a media relations intern with the Atlanta Hawks, and the many mentors who urged him to keep going. He also takes us through the first round pick selections of Jahmyr Gibbs and Jack Campbell, and why Mock Drafts don’t mean as much as we make them out to. Good stuff on the scouting of Aaron Donald, the toughness of Jared Goff, and the promise of the 2023 Detroit Lions.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Season with Peter Scheger is a production of the
NFL in partnership with iHeartRadio. What's Up, everybody, This is
Peter Schreger and you're listening to the Season with Peter Schreger.

(00:21):
We are in the middle of July right now, which
is the NFL's quote unquote slow season. But if you
follow the league and you love the game like I do,
you know there is no days off when it comes
to an NFL season. This podcast has been a blast
this summer because we're getting coaches and gms in their
homes and we're getting them at their vacation houses that
we're getting them maybe a little bit off the clock,

(00:43):
which means they can be a little looser than they
might usually be. I say this with great confidence. I
don't think I've enjoyed a podcast more than the conversation
you're about to listen to since we've begun doing this
thing back last September. This is Brad Holmes, the manager
of the Detroit Lions, with no further ado, really excited

(01:08):
about this guest and trying to get him on for
a couple of weeks and we got him, and I'm excited,
and it's right before the start of training camp, so
I'm sure he's fresh as a daisy. This is the
Detroit Lions general manager, mister Brad Holmes. Brad, what's up man?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
How you doing man? Thanks for having me. Glad we'll
be able to finally get this together. I hope you
to think I.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Waste No, you know what, it's funny because this is
like the off season, but it's also the only time
that people can get away. So it's yes, I'd love
to do your podcast, but I also have a family.
I'd like to see you.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, no, it's and you know, really like during the season.
I know we started talking about during the season, and
the season is probably the most like normal, lies regimented
part of the whole year because you kind of know
what's gonna happen. But when the season ends, that's when
it gets like crazy crazy and then we actually we

(02:00):
do quite a bit after the draft preparing for the
upcoming year. So but you know, fresh off vacation, Uh,
you know, got a good little week at home and uh,
it's a great time. Man.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
I think that's a good segue. So take us through,
and you are a general manager, what is the schedule
because I think most people think, all right, draft and
then kick your feet up and then free agency, you know,
but it's really year round.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, it really is. Man. You know, you have a
training camp and you go through that and you you
know a lot of rods reduction stuff. But after training camp,
you know, I say, the season. Everybody thinks like the
season is like that's the basest part, because it's the
football season. But from a GM standpoint, it's actually probably
the most regiment a part because you pretty much know, okay,

(02:44):
you got game day. Game day is going to bring
all your stress and emotions. And but after game day,
Mondays you're dealing with you know, injuries and medical stuff.
And then Tuesdays you're dealing with you know, roster management
and getting all your moves done. And then the week
starts and actually we actually kind of devote a lot
of that time for draft prep actually, so because you

(03:08):
kind of have the time. Yeah, and then you kind
of just operate normally. But then after the season ends,
and that's when you're like full throttle, like you know,
you're head straight into you're balancing free agency and draft
at the same time, and then you're going all the
way up to free agency so that's probably the most
hectic time. It's pre free agency because you're kind of

(03:30):
doing both, and then once free agency kind of like
that second or third wave kind of hits, you can
start downing more so towards straight draft, and then you know,
it's kind of just full throttle through the draft.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Because we're heading into the twenty twenty three season and
we're still just a couple of months removed. I want
to go back to that first round for you guys
in the Detroit Lions. We're going to get into your
story in a second, but I feel like just the
excitement about the Lions is real, and you've read all
the headlines. I'm sure you've blocked as many headlin you
can't out about how this is like the hot team
in the NFC. But the draft, you know, right in

(04:05):
the days leading up to the draft, I had a
couple of birdies in my ear man, like I think
Jamiir Gibbs might go earlier than the mock drafts are saying,
and another one saying he might go before be Jon Robinson.
Sure enough, you guys, you get him early top fifteen,
and everyone around like, oh, I want a shot. But
like people that I was tart to say, that's not

(04:26):
such a shock. That's about where he was slated. When
did you fall in love with Jamir Gives and what
did you love about him?

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Man, it's funny that she said you heard that about
him going at early because I was sitting here thinking, uh,
I was like, nobody's going to do this. And then
and then after we picked them, and I heard all
these other gentlemen.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's what we wanted.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, yeah, right, I'm glad you picked them. He wasn't
gonna make it. But no, I first fell in love
with him. Obviously, I didn't know about him that much.
Like it's at Georgia Tech year before. So I went
to Texas Alabama game earlier in the year and I
kind of got tipped off about him, like right before
the start of the game. Man, I was like, okay,

(05:08):
and I saw his body type and like this I
was intriguing. And then I kind of saw what he
was doing in both phases. Yeah, I mean he can
run it, but when he was doing as a receiver
and the explosiveness and everything about him, and we just
kept doing work on him and like I said, kind
of do some draft prep during the season and kept
doing work on him, and that was just kind of

(05:30):
it for me. I was like, this guy's uh and
he's he's a weapon. He's a weapon. And you know,
we talked about all the running backs going in the
first round and all that kind of stuff. You know,
I always say, like, if he's a weapon, then forget
the RBS.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
That's like, that's how that's that's.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
What he is. Like, that's like he we thought he
was a multi phase, elite explosive position list weapon and
you know he was a special player. You know, you
have some you have to combine to confirm some things,
you know, but he ran what I thought he was
gonna run. And you know, all the testing and his
workouts and we're just really excited about him. I think

(06:15):
you're gonna he's gonna bring another dimension to our offense.
That's as good as we were offensively last year, you know,
I think something even better this year. But bottom line
this is you just got to get the guys that
you want. And I kind of look at especially this
past draft. You know, everybody was saying like this is
a different draft, is a different draft. Well, let's call

(06:37):
it what it is. It just wasn't as strong of
a draft as it normally has been.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
And by that you mean blue chip guys top twenty yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, Like you know, in a normal year you had
like true first round talent players, you might have about
seventeen or eighteen guys. I really haven't seen any higher
than twenty in all the years that I've been doing it.
This is we ended up with fourteen guys, and that
was at the very end. It was less than that

(07:07):
at one point, Like at one point we had like
nine or ten, but Jamiro was always one of those guys.
So I just looked at it as like, damn, look,
let's just get the who the hell we want and
let's get the hell out of there and let's see
you know, like like like one of my favorite movies
is Training Yeah, like me and my dad one of
me and my dad's favorite movie. And uh, there was

(07:29):
a scene in Training Day where have yeah, so like
it was one of the scenes where you know, he
goes into this you know, the rough area, and he
goes to his lady's house and takes his money and
then he goes out and him and even Hawker trying
to get out of the neighborhood and the girl comes
out there and rats him out and says, hey, this
guy just took our money. And then Ze just send

(07:52):
his shootout and he's just shooting out trying to get
out of the neighborhood, and he's basically shooting his way
out of there. And I was like that drafts kind.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Of get me out of.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Get get who we want, and just shoot our way
out of here and get on out of there. And uh,
we were just ecstatic about how the whole thing went.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Would you say that you and Dan Campbell are Jay
Quoy and Alonso Harris in that film? Would you put.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
You know? I don't, I don't want to have that,
but I will say we we work as a pair
very very well. We partner very very well. You know. Again,
I know a lot of people know now that we
didn't really know each other that much before we got hired,
But always give so much credit to Sheila and Rod

(08:46):
Wood and Chris Bilman and Mike dis and everybody was
involved in that interview process of that. I guess that
they just knew that, you know, we would pair so
so well. And he's a joy to work with and
he's a hell of a coach.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
He's cool and he's got a great personality, and those
players really rallied around him, especially in the second half
of the season. You look at that running backs room,
obviously it's it's Gibbs and now it's Montgomery. Last year
you had something fun with Williams and Swift. You know,
everyone might say the value of the positions devalued and
whatever you want to say about it. That's a pretty
big change for the running backs room. Considering you guys

(09:21):
were so red hot at the end of the season.
You feel good about where you guys are at with
that position group.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, I mean overall, when you look at it just systematically,
I do think that we'll be better offensively. And that's
no knock on the contributions that that those other two
guys gave us, because Swift is a dynamic player and Jamal,
you know, he was a great leader for us and
he did he did so much for us. He had
a great season, awesome touchdowns. You know. Yeah, I mean,

(09:49):
but what we do think that Montgomery, You know, I
think we make Montgomery and Jamal are different backs. You know,
Montgomery does a little bit more in the passing game, uh,
And you know, adding being able to add Gibbs. You know,
I think he just he's so dynamic as a receiver.
And look, he's a home run hitter as a running back.

(10:10):
I mean that's the easy part. But what he does
as a receiver, I mean he runs routes like I
mean like a receiver. Is that right?

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Because I you know, you get all this Alabama talent
and then here's another one and it's like, no, this
one's special and has his own skill set that maybe
because he's only there one year, didn't get the same
hype as the other guys.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, he was just different. He was just different. And
you know, going through that process, I was like, man,
how many guys have I seen that was like equally
as effective? You know, Like when I first got with
the Rams in two thousand and three, Marshall Fulk was
still there and I was a huge Marshall Faulk guy
just coming in and so just kind of seeing what

(10:51):
he does in both phases, and then just from a
scouting standpoint, when Christian McCaffrey came out, he was like
the last guy. I was like, holy cow, like this guy,
I can run routes like a slot receiver. But also
run it, and so you start getting reminders of you know,
some of those players. I'm not sitting here those players,

(11:11):
but you know, just a special weapon like that, just
you know, we have a lot of excitement otism.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, and I think the offensive coordinator story is pretty
cool too. Had opportunities to interview for other head coaching
jobs and kind of withdrew his name and said, I'm
good here in Detroit with this group. Take us through
that decision from Ben Johnson and what that meant in
the organization as a whole man.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
That was huge, And you know, look at the end
of the day, Look, it's it's hard to keep the
good ones, you know, I mean, eventually the cat gets
out the bag and you know there's there's just no hiding.
But you know then, you know, you saw it right
out the gate. You know, even when he was a
tight ends coach, and you know obviously Dan, you know,

(11:53):
had had prior experience with him, but you know, when
things got rough in that twenty one season and we
had to make that change from Anthony Lynn and you know,
Ben basically became the passing game coordinator basically, but Dan
was called in plays and Dan plays before and and

(12:14):
Dan was just doing a great job and just having
fun with but Ben just added this other element was
just like, Wow, this dude's crazy. But you know that
that's another component of when I when you asked you
a question about the running backs about and I said,
I think will be better offensively this year as good

(12:34):
as you were last year. It's just that you know,
Ben going into his second year as THEOC, like I
think last year he showed everybody like I can do this,
like I'm legit, but going you know, having the experience
under his belt going into year two, having shared with
him going in year two, and then all the other
components that we had in creating in the draft. That's

(12:57):
why I feel better about William to be better.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Real quick, a couple more things Lions related, then we're
going to get more into your story. The Jack Campbell
picked that was one where if Gibbs was like okay Campbell,
that left people slack jawed and just being like, wait,
what not not a first round mock draft guy whatsoever?
And yet I saw Jack Campbell, I turned to my
co host on nfn R like, well, that's Chris Spielman
just walking through the door again. That's what I who,

(13:22):
of course works in your organization and has a great role.
But a linebacker another position not considered necessarily the same
as pass rusher, offensive tackle or quarterback in this league.
And you guys, you liked them, you took them, and
away we go.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah. I mean, you know, I think with these I
think sometimes it's almost like the draft's not that easy,
Like the draft is not Oh, you take these positions
and these players that played these positions put them up
top because they got stats and they've been on the internet,

(13:56):
and put them up top. And then these players have
played these positions put them at the bottom and that's it.
And just working for a couple of months.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
And Daniel Jeremiah says, mel Kiper says, take him there, Like, come.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
On, I give it a little bit more credit to drafts.
Not that easy. And he's going to look me talking
about building a defense and me and Aaron going to
have very similar philosophies in terms of like what does
it take to really elevate you? And you got to
have guys the front. You better have guys that can cover,
so you know, often the inside linebacker or the off

(14:32):
ball linebacker, like we took Malcolm Rodriguez year before sixth round,
and he had a great year. You know he's gonna
be He's going to be something that's going to be
contributed for us going forward. But it was just that
you got to look at the player like, not not
the position. We don't draft positions. We draft players. And
so when you looked at the player of Jack Campbell

(14:54):
and we saw it as like, no, we're not drafting
inside linebacker. We actually went into after we signed if
to resigned Alex Angeloni, and we feel really good about,
you know, the direction that Derek Barnes and knocking Rod
Driguez was heading. It's not like inside linebackers like oh
you better get like it's not just like no, but

(15:16):
Jack Campbell was just a hell of a football player.
And I just think that like we're looking at it
as he's going to be an anchor in our defense,
not we're drafting an inside linebacker, Like no, we're just
taking an anchor. That's defense. And we tell about guys.
We look at free agency, you look at inside linebackers.
You know, you might have this whole list, But then

(15:37):
when you're looking at guys I can actually wear that
green dot and really run the show, that list shrinks
down like this, like it goes from this and it
goes to this. And so then when you have a
guy like Jack Campbell that's six five, two fifty, that's
extremely instinctive. He's he's heavy in the run game, he's

(15:59):
extremely smart, and I just love how the kid is wired.
I mean he's wired to fake what we're all about.
We're all about grit, doing it the right way, like
the truly earning it. And this guy just loves football.
He's he he's all business. And so it's about the player.
It's not about not about oh it's gone place. It's

(16:21):
notline it's got a place running back. No, like go
to Jamiri gibbss Like, oh no, he's a weapon. But
Jamira Gibbs is really smart. It's not like you know,
oh yeah, he can align all these different places. You
got to be smart to line in all these different places.
You don't just align all these different places, No, Like,
you got to be really smart. You got to be
really heady and instinctive. And so I thought Jack Campbell,

(16:44):
you know, had all the trades that we look for
in a football player. And so that's how we felt
really good about it again going back to what I
was saying about in one but a certain amount of
players that we had in that first round bucket, and
he was one of them. And but I say it
was only fourteen guys. Jack Campbell wasn't fourteen, you know
what I mean? So like it's that's that's why I

(17:07):
just it was it was easy.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
I love it. You guys have your board, you have
your guys, and hey, if we can get this guy
at eighteen, and he was a top fourteen player of
ours and may even higher top ten, we're taking them.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Mock drafts be damned.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, that's kind of what that's that's our stance. We're
just we do a lot of work. We're very thorough,
and I know I think every team is going to
say that, but we just have a lot of conviction
in our process and in what we believe, and we
just stick by it, and that that's what we did.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
I love it. And last year not only had Hutchinson
step up, but you had so many rookies playing big roles,
especially on that defense, that it's hard not to say, Okay,
let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's see
before everyone starts giving them, you know b's and c's
on their draft grades based on what the mont Draft said.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, and I mean that's always say like it's such
a psychological component of like the mock drafts and look
it's no, I'm.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Not looking at it.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Look I know you, like, I.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Know you do much, yes, but take a lot of
pride in it.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
But like, but I'll say this, I mean, stra you
you do football every single day, Like that's what you
do all the time. You know a lot of people
you I mean, like, I like I look at like
So I'm not going to say like I don't look
at mock drafts. Yeah I look at him because people talking,
people do the research and all that. But you can't.

(18:30):
You just still have to have ultimate belief and ultimate
conviction in your own process. But but no, there's plenty
of guys that are doing that. I respect, And I'm like, man,
I know this guy knows people. You know, he's done
a lot of work, you know, and I think he
puts a lot of pride. But when it doesn't go
down the way you projected it, your your brain doesn't

(18:54):
really like that. And it's kind of.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Want to be right.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Everybody wants to be and so then now you're mad,
and now you're like, damn it, no one said he
was gonna go that high. And then now you got
to sign a grade while you're still mad. So now
I was like, oh, no one said you're gonna go there. No,
And I'm just like and I was like, at the
end of the day.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
I'm like, march, you know, because really the.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Only ranks that really matter is the thirty one other
general finishers and uh and and those are the rankings
that nobody has. And that's what makes the draft so fun.
And so when when when when I see people get
mad about, uh, it didn't go the way, I'm like, look,
you should embrace the excitement of that, Like that's that's
the part. You don't know how it's gonna fall. And

(19:40):
you see a name that goes out and be like, whoa,
I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
It's like embracing it is ultimates the ultimate reality show.
It's more than the season even because it's so rapid fire.
And I say it before the draft, I beg my
colleagues on Twitter on ESPN, I don't tip the picks.
It is such a fun experience as a viewer. If
you don't and you guys in the war rooms and
then trying to manipulate the chessboard. It's it's war games

(20:06):
and it's fun to watch from outside, but I'm sure
it's stressful as hell in your chair.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
But it is. You're right, it's fun. And and what
I was I was selling a lot of people out
in the draft, you know, I was like, Okay, this
was the draft, this was the draft season. This was
you know, the build up, and then when it's over,
then it's over. And then now now the ota start
and guys start get on the field, and now that's
the thing. And then now training camp is about to start,

(20:34):
so that'll be a thing. So it's like it goes
in phases where it's just like I was telling you
about the movie, you know, with Ethan Hawkins Denzel Aushington.
It's like you do the shootout and the back windows
shot out, and you know, the cars kind of shot
up a little bit, but they got out. They go.
You gotta so you gotta take the you know, the

(20:57):
d's and halfs of the mock drafters and all, okay,
all right, you know it'll be it'll be back at home.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
I love your story. I think it's a story of perseverance.
But also you've had a great career. Can can we
go back to your high school days. You're a star
player in Tampa, Florida. You were I want to say,
Homecoming King, Is that true? I did my research. Homecoming King,
captain of the football team. You go to North Carolina

(21:31):
A and T, and you're having a great freshman sophomore
here and then a major life moment occurred. I'm going
to say something and then you take us back and
explain what happened. But I'm just going to say the
Music City Miracle game and then take us backwards and
lead up to what that game means in your life.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Oh man, So yeah, you know, I'm at home visiting,
you know, my my parents once Ampa, and you know,
have a you know, near fatal car accident, just get
get sidelined, and you know, I mean, I mean, I
see you for a week and it was it was

(22:13):
I mean, I'm just I'm I'm very blessed and lucky
to pull through that. But yeah, I was. I was
in I see you in Saint Joseph Hospital in Tampa, Florida,
watching the Music City Miracle and I never forget I was.
And then when I got released from the hospital, watching
then in nine rams, you know, uh go their Super
Bowl when they played the Bucks, you know, and then

(22:36):
NSC Championship game, and uh it was. I mean I
was watching that just just kind of couch written when
I got released. But those moments kind of really resonate
with me because you don't you don't take anything for granted.
And you know what what that taught me is that,
you know, look, if you have something that you believe,

(22:59):
all is believe it and don't let anybody take your
dreams away. Because I never forget that. My college coach
phil As visits in the hospital and you know, he's
he sees one of his players in ICU bed mangled up,
and I'm sitting there telling them that I'm gonna play again,
and he's like, all right, yeah right, I mean, like
you're lucky if you'll walk around like no, I'm gonna

(23:21):
play again. And sure enough, it just gave me time
to get as healthy as I could rehab. It was
able to, you know, join the team. I had missed
that whole spring, and I joined the team during summer
workouts and a big part of my rehab process was
my grandfather coming down and my grandfather played golf twice

(23:42):
today and just driving his car really kind of just
or yeah, like just getting used to even driving again.
Stuff like that. And you know, you go through all
this occupational therapy and all that, but but be able
to join my teammates that summer and I felt actually
stronger than ever was. I felt even better in shape,

(24:03):
and you know, and we we went on and you know,
I was able to finish my career at North Carolina
A and T. But that's definitely the biggest adversity that
I've ever overcome in my life and and something that
I'll never forget. And it sticks with you.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
You went into a coma, you had a stroke, and
then what was it? How many how many weeks or
months in the hospital were you?

Speaker 2 (24:27):
And yeah, so I was in I was in ICU
for almost two weeks. You know, it was like ten
days in ICU, and then I had almost close to
another week when I got released and moved from ICU.
But yeah, had a had a coma stroke, was paralyzed
all the way on my right side. And you know,

(24:47):
I still to this day, I still have like I
still don't feel like I have the exact same amount
of strength, you know, like in my right arm as
my left or you know, it's just it's certain things
that kind of just give you some reminders of that moment.
But having kids now, being a parent, I just can't

(25:09):
even think of you know, uh, my, my my parents.
Getting that call from one of my closest friends Gape GALAGOSU.
I just saw back when I was on vacation that
you know, he's the one that had to make that
call to my parents of what happened, and it was
I just can't even fathom me get in that call

(25:30):
when day just out of the blue, and you know,
I just I just have so much respect for my family, uh,
my closest friends. Uh and you know, I just I
just kind of it's just one of those moments that
lives with you in really a good way.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
I was gonna say, is it almost in a weird way?
And they say this about survivors of traumatic events, but
also survivors of illnesses. It's almost liberating where you're like, wait,
I've been through that, I can do anything now.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, exactly, Like it's yeah, it's it's not a good
moment because it's life threatening, but at the same time,
It's one of those moments that shape for sure, and
those are one of those things that I think kind
of started my journey. Like I felt like I was
always a hard worker. I always felt like I always

(26:20):
had that mindset that was kind of overcoming the odds.
My father had taught me that a long time ago,
you know, he had he he played in the NFL
for a short a while, and I never forget he
bought me a weight set, you know, when I was
in length the seventh grade and and he was like
it was no, it was in the eighth grade. I
think it was in eighth or ninth grade, but he

(26:42):
bought me a weight set, And I never forget he
told me. He was like, Brad, it's it's not about
what other people are seeing you do, and it's about
what you're doing, about what you're doing when other people
aren't watching, about how hard you're working. And so I
always felt like I was a hard worker. But going
through that car accident and going through that process getting
back on my feet and not only having a chanced

(27:03):
play football, but having a chance to have life again,
I'm just forever grateful and fortunate. But I do think
that that did kind of spark that fuel of getting
to where I got to now because I had to
take a really long road. It was a very unconventional

(27:24):
path in terms of getting started and just you know,
being told no when I first shot to get into
business and just keep fighting at it, and I think
it both will.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
It's an amazing story. And I think what you're alluding
to with your career, I was looking in your bio.
You were in Atlanta Hawks public relations, you know, entry
level guy doing PR for the Atlanta Hawks coming out
of school for you, and then you were at the
Saint Louis Rams doing p R, which is yeah, setting

(27:58):
up interviews, which is working on messaging for the team,
which is helping the players you know, talk to the
media and arrange that kind of How do you make
that jump from PR to being an NFL GM twenty
years later?

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, So my degree was in PR, and in credit
to my mother's been in the education field forever, and
like halfway through college, I started off as a business
and marketing major. I didn't even know why. I just
thought that was the cool major to be in. And
then my mom was like, right, you might want to

(28:30):
change that, dude, Like you're more of a verbal writing person.
You're not a man. I was like, all right, So
I changed my degree to PR and uh, and it
was it was the best thing for me. And I
really like my grade to start to change. But anyways,
when I got done playing, you know, I knew I
wanted to get in the NFL and you know, try

(28:52):
to get into Scout again. I sent my resume to
all the teams like everybody else does. My dad had
a complic actions, but none of that fell through. So
my mom was basically like, dude, you got to come
back home. You know, You've got to come home and
just figure it out. And so I moved back home,
and I was ringing cars for Enterprise Rental Cars, and yeah,

(29:15):
I was rinting cars for Enterprise Rental Car and uh,
you know, I'm wearing the shirt and tie, washing cars
and rinting cars and all I'm doing is I'm thinking
about sports. And that was a very psychological and emotional
period of my life because that was the first time
that I was not getting ready to play football. I
wasn't like I'm going through It's like.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
In July, you don't have a training I don't have.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
A training camp. Awaiting for me. I'm not involved in football.
So I'm in that little branch that Enterprise rental car
just thinking about football all day and saying about sports.
And so finally an opportunity came about with the Atlanta
Hawks for a media relations trainee, and so I talked
to my mom about it and I'm like and my

(30:02):
mom was like, look, at least you'll be back in sports,
and I was like, yeah, you're You're right. And so
I got that opportunity with the Atlanta Hawks. And because
like I only could only work forty hours a week
with the Atlanta Hawks, it was a meat relations trainee position,
but because of my experience with Enterprise, Enterprise allowed me

(30:24):
to work part time at the Atlanta airpe Line. So
one of the one of the greatest perks that the
Atlanta Hawks gave me was a free Marty card. Because
I didn't have the money to I lived way up
in Norcross and had this little one bedroom apartment and
so I would take the you know.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
You're taking ups arena.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
So I had to start up top at the Furthest
Formal station.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
In the early two thousand. Yeah, you know about that's
not a yeah, all respect to the marks that ain't
the New York City subway system.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
So you literally added take the door into the northernmost
stop and go down and then drop me off downtown
at to see an Inventor Center of building. And that's
when I would do my meat relations trainee job. And
then when I got off, then that's when I would
go down to UH. I get off and I take
the Marta down to the Atlanta Airport and then I

(31:29):
go to the Atlanta Airport and I would just work cars,
so probably about about eleven o'clock at night, and then
you know, the Atlanta air Force is the last time,
so I'd have to take that that Atlanta Airport Marta
all the way back up to that door bill station
up north and UH. And that's really what's the lesson.

(31:49):
What's a lesson from Atlanta?

Speaker 1 (31:51):
What's a lesson for kids? Right now? Who are I say? Kids?
College graduate? I want to get in sports, I want
to be a GM. You hear that story that that
could be discouraging, but it should also encourage.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
It should encourage you. And again, like I said at
the beginning, man, look if you're confised on what you
want to do, don't let anybody ever tell you know,
and people will tell you no, and you got to
use the nose as fuel to just keep going. And
you just gotta have you just got to be convicted,
and you just got to know that you're not going
to have the easiest path. Yeah. I had plenty of

(32:22):
friends from college that got these high paying jobs and
all this stuff, and it was it was, it was great.
But I was struggling. You know, I wasn't making I
think I was want to make like eight bucks an
hour as a relations trainee, and then maybe I was
making like nine dollars an hour renting cars. But I
had enough to survive, as you know, to pay for

(32:44):
my apartment and pay for my bills. But the great
thing about that year, though, in two thousand and three,
was that the NBA All Star Game. I remember.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yet contest that year. Just as a fan.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
I actually thought it was a cool job because one
of my main duties was I had to get the
post game quotes from the opposing teams. So, like Jordan
and everybody, they would be coming in and I'm like
in the locker room and I'm like, holy cal, Like
this is Tracy McGray, Like, holy cal, this is like
I'm saying, like, this is Shaquille O'Neil, Like what Like

(33:21):
I thought it was awesome. So, but the NBA All
Star Game comes and then my boss at the time, ARTHA. Trish,
was a he was a president communication for basketball for
the House at the time. He knew I wanted to
get in the NFL, and he said, hey, look, man,
a lot of these PR directors from the NFL come
to the All Star Game. You know, I can introduce

(33:43):
you to some of them. And so I met Dwayne
Lewis and we just kind of did a little kind
of lunch interview and he had offered me a PR
internship and I was like great, And so then I
just did the PR Internship of the Year and during
that year, so I was starting the two thousand and
three season.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
So you make the shift from Sharif Abdurraheim and Dan
Dickau and Dion Glover and my man Alan Henderson and
now you're at where you're going, you go, do you
move everything? Go to Saint Louis for an internship.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, So I just kind of packed the U haul.
I just I just packed the U haul and drove
the Saint Louis and and I just started there.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Had you ever been there before?

Speaker 2 (34:30):
I've never been the same. I've never been.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
This is the lesson. How many of these people that
we talked to are like, yeah, the opportunity, but I'm
from New York. I'm not moving to you know.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Like, no, I think it's easier when it's when you're
single with no kids a little bit. But but you know,
I'm now. I was twenty three years old, twenty two
years old at the time, so but yeah, I just
packed the U haul and just kind of drove drove
the Saint Louis. Uh it's about eight nine hour drive,

(35:01):
I think or something like that. You know. Then I
started my PR internship and back then the RAMS would
have training camp in Macomb, Illinois, Illinois. So uh, it's
like assume I get there and I'm there for like
maybe a week. And then I got to go to Macomb,
Illinois and start my PR internship, and uh, it was

(35:22):
it was it was cool again. I was doing interviews
and with Marshall Faulk and stuff like that, and I
was like, this is great. But during that time, you know,
during that training camp, I see these guys that weren't players.
They were just regular guys and they had their helping
out in practice and I'm like, what are those and

(35:43):
they're like, oh, there was a scouting assistance and I
was like scouting assistants and I'm like, they can like
help out in practice and walk through and stuff. And
it's like yeah, I'm like wow. So I'm like I
gotta get So, you know, I struck up a good
relationship with our running bass coach at the time, Wilbert Montgomery,

(36:03):
former Eagles. Yeah. I mean, and I think Wilburt just
saw that, you know, I was just a young kid
fresh out of college that I love football, and we
would just taught football and h Then as our relationship developed,
I would start helping him out with stuff. I would

(36:24):
help him. I would help him do his running back
risk band things, you know, I do that kind of stuff.
And one day he just asked me, He's like, man,
why are you in pr Like why are you not?
I said, Wilburt, Man, I don't know anybody. I don't.
I try to get in, but I couldn't. And so
he was like, hey, look man, I'm gonna talk to Charlie.

(36:45):
Charlie Armers our gem at the time, and he said,
I'm gonna talk to Charlie. And at the time, all
the Scotting assistants kind of had this it's called it
like a nepotism kind of everyone. Yeah, like one uncle
was the president, another one, you know, his dad played

(37:07):
quarterback for the g another one is like his his
grandfather used to be the owner's far like all. And
I'm just like, I don't have any of that. And
he was like, look, I never this is Wilbur talking.
Wilver's like, look, Brad, I never go to Charlotte or anything.
So he knows it's real. It's real. So he talks
to Charlie and he comes back. And one thing that

(37:29):
I had to do as a PR internship is I
had to print out the daily clips. And I had
to print out the daily clips and pass them out
to all the coaches offices in the gym's office.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
And so here's what Bernie milk Klass wrote about the
team this week.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Right is Thomas Bernie mclass like all of them and
so and so, and you know, now we get them
all and PDF and all that. I let I tell
these interns now, I'm like, we used to have to
print these things out.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
You print out, You cut out the newspaper article, you
put it on a piece of white paper, you paste it.
Then you gotta go to the copy machine, make forty copies,
and you gotta staple it. And this is every day.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
It every single day. And so now on that again,
I can look at it as grunt work or but
I was looking as an opportunity. Like I had to
hand out some clips to Lovely Smith's office deep into Coordinate,
and I'm like, holy cow, love Smith, like you know
what I mean, Like I was able to meet. So

(38:29):
after Wilfrid told me about that, he talked to Charlie.
I had to pass them out to the general manager's
office and I passed it. I gave the clips to
Charlie and Charlie said, hey, uh. I talked to Wilburt
and he said, you know you're interested, and so come
come come meet me on Friday in my office. And
so I'm like, holy coun like this is it, like

(38:52):
it's coming. So I didn't know, and this is being
a young kid and not knowing really how to communicate
affectively and handle business right. So I didn't tell Dwayne
Lewis or PR director because.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
I'm not giving that job?

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Am I supposed to? Yeah? I'm like, what am I
supposed to do? Like tell him I'm about to leave,
you know what I mean? So, so, you know, and
Fridays were like a dress down there. So Friday, T
shirt Friday, I'm sure. So people are looking at me

(39:27):
like I just got dressed up. And so I go
up there, I meet Charlie Army and it was him
and his assistant Debbie Pollam in there, and I just
had a bunch of writing samples from my time with
you know everything that I and I wanted to show
Charlie like I can write, Like.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
I can write.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
I have a passion for writing. I love like I'm
a grammar snob to this day. All my staff kind
of jokes on me all the time because I'm like, man,
why is he not a comment or something like that.
But anyways, I want to show him that I can write,
you know. And so I'm in there and I'm sitting
at this table with Charlie and his assistant Debbie, and
then next thing, you know, my PR director Dwayne Lewis

(40:13):
walks into Charlie's office and I'm like, and Dwayne's looking
at me and He's like, what the hell did you
just do? Like he's like, why is why is my
PR intern in the general manager's office. And and so
Charlie was on the phone and Debbie tells Dwayne that

(40:36):
was like, no, he's fine, he's fine, he's fine. And
so then Charlie gets off the phone and he just
tells Dwayne. He goes, hey, look, I was talking to
Brad here, and you know, he's interested in getting the
scouting So after he's done with your internship, he's going
to be by intern starting the draft prep process.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
He hadn't even told me that you found out.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
I'm just like, I'm like, whoa, okay, right, and so
so then you know I had a you know, I
had a sorry, yeah, a.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Quick lesson on what this guy takes president.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
So so yeah, so that's that's that's how it got started.
And I got a shot to be, uh a scouting intern.
So when the season ended, you know, basically like January
through the draft and I was a scouting intern and
I was just you know, labeling beta tapes and you know,

(41:35):
entering reports, and you know, you have to make profile
tapes we call profile profile tapes, and you got to
write the time codes from the beta tapes and all that,
and every now and then they should watch these tapes
during the draft meetings. And so every now and then
Charlie would ask one of the scout assistants, you know,
to come in and talk about the player. And so

(41:58):
I never forget the first who is the guy? He could?
They called me in?

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Oh, come on, give it to me. I want to hear.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
God, I can't remember who it was. I don't want
to make some but but I probably should remember it.
But I never forget he called me in. And it's
like the room is like dimly lit and projector screamed
on and they're watching my profile tape and it's a
room full of scouts in the GM and Lawrence mccut

(42:26):
player personnel director, and I'm like, smokes, and he's like,
what did you think? And I just told him I said,
I think he's this, I think he's that. I think
he's boomom boom, bom boom. And he was like, all right, thanks,
and I stopped out the room and I'm like, I
have no idea like anybody thought what I said. But

(42:47):
but you know, there was a scout, Big Daniels, who's
been been one of my mentors for a long time,
and I remember he came out and he told me,
he said, grad, you did a really good job. And
he was the one that really taught me how to
construct the scouting report and how to kind of ride a.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Play or a young kid come in like give me
your thoughts on Roscoe Parish.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Go and you're like, no, it was it was. It
was intimidating, man, and you just had to be right.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
But guess what, it was just me and those PR skills,
the enterprise front facing salesman skills, all of it comes
into play because guess what you're presenting.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Absolutely absolutely. It's almost like another one of my favorite
movies is The Karate. You know, the scene of when
he's complaining about you're not teaching meaning karate, you know,
like I thought I was supposed to be doing karate
and he's like, no, wax and watch off paint the
house like he's doing. And he's like no, Like do

(43:49):
you get it now? Like you've been learning it this
whole time, you just now it's showing. So but yeah,
you're right, like all those skills just goode. Well, but
as a young kid, you don't realize that at the time.
So after I got done with that draft, I believe
that's when we drafted Steven Jackson in the first round.

(44:12):
And I'll never forget that. And then Charlie he hired
me on as a full time scouting assistant, and you know,
I did that for like three years, and uh, we're
just picking players up from the airport. Just a lot
of just you know, going to the combine, not watching players,
just grabbing lunch for the GM, you know, between workouts

(44:33):
and stuff like like that, and keep doing profile tapes
and you know, just enormous scouting assistant duties and did
that for three years and then that's when I became
a combined scout in NFS Combine scout and that, to me,
that's the best training that you can get from a
scout because you're always woroking on the next year's draft

(44:55):
class and so like so, say it's the H five
draft and that March in April or February, March April
whatever like that, will you're working on the six guys.
And so what I think is the best training is
I'll never forget my first junior day. I just had
to go to university Missouri, and you know, I met

(45:19):
the pro liaison and he just gives me a list
and he was like, here's a list. He walks me
into the film room. I don't know anything about him,
and I just had to sort out that whole roster,
like I don't know what anybody is, I don't know
how good anybody is. And I remember I just grinded like.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Some of that justin Smith first round pick, or it
could be a guy that has no chance of being drafted,
but you've got to do it.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, you just do. You don't know, and you don't
know until you watch him. And that's why I tell
my Scott's all the time, like You're like all these
free agents and all these guys that are undrafted guys,
and I'm like, well, you don't know if they're free
agents or guys you look at them. So but that
that moment right there kind of showed me like, look

(46:06):
and going through the whole spring, It's like it kind
of gave me the whole thing of don't worry about
what anybody else thinks, like just trust for your I,
C and and and that's all. I mean that that's
kind of a hard thing to kind of especially as
a young scout, because you got a lot of noise

(46:27):
that affects you, and you got group think and all
this stuff that affects you. And just like we were
talking about earlier about the mant dress up, you want
to be right. And so it actually takes a very
special skill to be able to say, look, I don't
care what anybody else thinks, this is what my But
being a combine scout forces you to be in that

(46:47):
moment of like you're riding all these players for the
up for the next year's draft class. And there is
no mock drafts out, there is no nobody's talking.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
About change from the combine to the draft, and yet
you hear this guy's rising up aboard. But it's like
that's the group thing where it's like, well, maybe we
have taken another look at.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
This guy exactly exactly, And so that's I've always been
big on the psychological part of the draft process and
still am. And so but those are the one of
the things of the group think. The it's a very
or just the whole conformity. Always look at the Solomon

(47:27):
Ash conformity experiment that you look at on YouTube, and
you know it's all those guys in the room and
they're looking at these lines on this paper and it's
this guy. They say all the wrong lines, and then
the guy knows that he has the right answer, but
he keeps sharing something else and he's just like, oh, shoot,
it's gotta be three, but everybody's saying two. So I

(47:52):
guess I'm gonna say two. But in your heart you
know that no, it was three. It's not it's not two.
And so those are the things that you know that
I'm always big one and try to eliminate that group thinking,
try to cut out that outside noise. But I think
that being a combine scout really really helped me out
with that. And you just kind of get training in

(48:13):
all aspects of scouting, of running a pro day and
having your own conviction and all that stuff. So doing that,
you know, or I did the Midwest and cross checked
the Southeast, and after that I finally got an area
job doing the Northeast, and you know, we had a
new regime come in, you know, fit Billy Devaney became

(48:37):
my general manager and began the Northeast area scout job.
And then the rest of his.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
History fast forwarding to the You're Rising up the chart
with the Rams Go twenty thirteen rolls around. This kid
out of Pittsburgh is a defensive tackle. What was your
initial thoughts and feelings on Aaron Donald the prospect?

Speaker 2 (49:04):
So, Aaron Donald, he's another great, great study in terms
of blocking out the outside noise. And because at the
time we had I think we had Michael Brockers and
Kendall Langford and you know, we had already drafted Chris Long.

(49:26):
So we had these big defensive linemen at the time.
And I'm going to pitt and I'm like, this guy's amazing.
But I'm like, the coaches are gonna hate him because
he's not big. And I'm like, and then, so now
you're battling.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Sure, you know, going in, how how.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
High of a grade do I give him? Because I
get this guy this high of a grade, but the
coach is gonna be like, what are you talking about?
This guy's only six foot and twenty five. So, but
I'll never forget. And this is why always say to
this day the intangibles are the separators of success. Is
that I knew the defensive coordinator at Hit the time,

(50:04):
Matt House, because he was working with Stagnola in that
previous staff under spags. And so I go in the
pit and I see Matt and Matt tells me, hey, Brad,
are you staying for practice? And I said, yeah, yeah,
he said come out about a half hour early. And
he didn't tell me why. He just told me to
come out of holf. So I'm thinking, as a scout,

(50:26):
I'm like, oh, he's gonna give me some more background information,
some more intel. He'll be out of practice earlier. So
he didn't tell me that. He just told me to
come out of practice early. So I come out of practice early.
You know, they practiced in that bubble at the Steelers Steelers,
and so I go out there and I walk out
to the bubble and it's the ball boys, the equipment managers,

(50:47):
the specialists, the kickers, the punter of the long snapper,
and Aaron Donald. Those are the only people in the bubble.
And Aaron Donald is sitting on this bag fully taped
up with this which in his knee as if like, man,
I've been waiting all day, like where's everybody at because

(51:07):
I've been waiting on this all day? And so then
I see Matt House. He comes out with other coaches
and Matt goes, Brad, you come out early. I was
like yep, and he goes, did you see it said?
I was like nothing else needed to be said. I
was like, that's that's it. That's it. So yeah, Aaron Donald,

(51:28):
I mean a very talented player, ny explosive, very strong,
I mean all that, very athletic. I mean, he had
this rare combine. But it's his work in indangibles and
his passion for football that a lot of people just don't.
I mean they know now, but at the time, like

(51:48):
and that was my story that I told, you know,
less need and Jeff Fisher like, I'm like that said
it all to me is that when Matt House told
me to come out there early, and and sure enough
he's always been that way.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
When he starts slipping in the draft, are you in
the war room like, hey guys, Scott or is it understood, Like, hey,
if he's there, we're taking them.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Yeah, it was pretty understood. You know, we had two
picks that year, so you know we had we we
we took Greg Robinson and then and then you know
that's the that was the premium position, that was the
talented you know what I mean, like, that's that's that's
what it was.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
So and guess what, every mock draft had Robinson going
first or second.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
There's no doubt it was himboy Sammy Watkins that I
think we were we were targeting, and then finally we
just kind of settled in on Greg Robinson. But that
that was a great draft. But I mean that was
after that. It was so then after that when we
when we when we got to that next pick, it's like, now, yeah,
Aaron Donald, you got you know, Mike Evans, you got

(52:55):
Zach Martin. It's just yeah, so many that was a
great go down Odell Beckham, I mean, c J. Bos like,
you got all these great players and so but you know,
the sites were said on on Aaron Donald. I never forget.
We got to that pick and a team called and

(53:17):
uh they offered a pretty tyson trade offer, and I'm
never Jeff thetheless was like, absolutely not, We're pitching this guy.
And that's just it. And uh, I'll never forget in
that draft meeting of our assistant general manager Ray Agne,
he was the one that really like in that draft
meeting leading up to that draft because a lot of

(53:38):
people are saying because of the size, you know, he
was going to be a sub rush you know, specialized
nickel sub rush guy. And I never forget. Rad was
like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no,
he's every day like it is. No, it's no specialized nothing,
and like he said it with the most passion. And

(54:00):
you know Ray Agnew, you know Tompson Page like he's
like when you hear Ray Agnew and Radnews, very salt
smoke guy. But when he hit said, I was like, Okay,
this is real.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
They played you guys played Tampa and it was a
thunderstorm and I remember I don't know who the decordinator
was at the time, as probably Greg Williams. They were
lining airing up and outside linebacker in a three four yeah,
and I was like, I've never seen this before and
it was in a rainstorm and he was just out
there sacond quarterbacks from the OLB position.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
He is he has rare I mean, if you look
back at his combine, he had Shuttle times like he
had dB Shuttle times, but he just had like thirty
reps in two twenty five and ran a four six.
And because of the way he's built and he's still
got long arms and he's so explosive, but again like
he's talented. I tell the story all the time about

(54:54):
Aaron Donald and I say it about Cooper Cup as well,
and it's like, yeah, man, like this guy loves football
and he was hard, like because that time where he
was the first one in that bubble in practice, He's
been that way a freaking old day. He's the first
one out at practice every day. And I'll never forget,

(55:17):
even his rookie year, before he was even starting, I
never forget. I had to run to the facility real quick.
It was. It was a Saturday, Saturday night and I
think I was heading out on the road somewhere the
next day, and so I run the facility grab stuff,
and it was Aaron Donald and he was in the

(55:37):
world because I was like, there's no players here. It's
like it's like eight nine o'clock at night, Aaron Donald
in the whirlpool watching his iPad like he's not even
a starter. He's not even the starter, but he's preparing
like he's the starter as a rookie. And and it
was it was the same way with with with Cooper
Cup when you know he drafted him, and that's when

(55:59):
it really it hit me. I'm like, look, man, if
these players don't have the tangibles in the passion and
the work ethic in the football character, it's not gonna work.
It's just bottom line.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
I love this stuff. We're gonna we're gonna do rapid
fire and then we're gonna wrap this up. We'ven't been
gotten into some of the Lions stuff I want to
talk about. Jered, I thought it'll be another time. Yeah,
I'm gonna go rapid fire and you just give me
some answers and we go from there. Your greatest mentor
as a football professional non life, but it's a football
person in your career. Who is the person that kind

(56:32):
of you look to and say, this guy showed me
the ropes?

Speaker 2 (56:36):
And I have to say, Dick Daniels. I have to
say Daniels.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
I don't know, I don't know that name. So tell
me who he is.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Yeah, so so Dick Daniels. He was a Northeast scout
at the time when I first joined the scouting apartment
as a scouting intern. And he's the one that kind
of took the time out. That's the that's the guy
that told me good job after I winning that Yark
rooman stilled my gut, it's about this player on this

(57:01):
profile tape I made, and and he just kind of
told me like, hey, look man, like this is this
is what you got to do. This is how you
do it. And we went to this college All Star
game called the Cactus Boll It was like this small
school college all star game down in Texas. This is
back when they saw like one forty yard dash and
stuff at All Star games. And I remember it was

(57:23):
just me and him and every morning before he went
out to practice, we would sit in that lobby and
he would just tell me just all the ins and
outs of Rochster building, team building. I mean like he
was he was that guy, and you know he had
been in the league for thirty years you know then

(57:44):
there and he just would just give me so much
knowledge and intel. So if I there's a lot of guys,
That's why I kind of like that, because a lot
of guys I can name. I can name Lawrensman, Cunson,
I could, I can name less need but uh, from
from the very gig go, I'd have to say the game.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Who is the player that you remember being most convicted
about and using your voice the loudest and maybe if
you want to say, pounding the table to be selected
in any any draft, any team you've been a part of.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Hm hmm.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Could be a late round guy who you're like, hey,
let's take a shot on it. Could be a first
round pick, someone that you were like, this is my dude.
And I remember asking Jason Light about this and he
was like, in Philly, Trent Cole was my guy. You know,
like you just have this random guy. They're like, that's
my guy. You know.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
For me, it was John Johnson, the safety BC.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Talk about it. I love this.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
So it was funny that draft. I remember it was
like that's when we first hired Sean McVay, and you know,
we had a lot of new coaches and Less, you know,
Less was in that whole hiring process, so you know,
he usually is like deep diving and everything all the time.
He didn't have that kind of time because we're doing this.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
No, he's interviewing Doug Maroon and guy.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Regime makeover and so I'll never forget. We get into
the third round and you get to those points in
the draft where the board just looks kind of foggy,
like no one's really standing out. No, one's really it's
just kind of just static and staying and everyone's kind

(59:30):
of staring at it, and you know, everybody started names
and I just said I was just like John Johnson.
I said, just let's just pick John Johnson. And I
never forget Wade Phillips. He looks over at me and
he's like John Johnson. I said, I'm telling you, this
guy's a starter, Like he's a starter. So Wade Phillips.
I love Way Phillips. He just like, oh, he's a

(59:52):
starter man. And so I just and so I just
kept on the table for John Johnson. I said, I'm
telling you John Johnson, like, because I remember I went
out the BC Yukon game saw him live, Like I
just love what I saw out of him, like another
guy just high and tangible is how working. I actually
thought he was going to be more of a coverage

(01:00:14):
player and then he actually transformed himself into more of
a box kind of player. But I'll never forget. I
just that that was the moment I think that I
felt like, you know, I had just like a voice,
and I think it was a needed voice because everybody
was new, Like, you know, he had a whole new
coaching staff. You know, we did just a lot of

(01:00:35):
change and you know, make over there and I'll never forget,
you know, I just had a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
You're in New Orleans NFC Championship game a few years later,
who makes the biggest play of the game.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Oh well, you can say a lot of guys did,
but I actually think Jared Golf played one of his
best games there. Johnson john made the big thing at
the end.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Yeah, that Golf was awesome in that game. You know everyone,
And I've worked with Sean Payton this past year and
he's still sensitive about it because obviously the non call
on the Nicole Roby Coleman thing. But I always said,
you're up thirteen to nothing at home, you got you
got the ball first in overtime, you got to close
the door. But Jared Golf that day would not quit it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Like what people don't realize about the game. It was.
It was the loudest thing ever. And it's like he
literally he couldn't hear his headset win all these He's
busting enough to try to run to the receiver before
the PLAYFOD game to tell him to sit like that.
It wasn't just about his stats, about him throwing. It
was about the adversity came through. But it's funny saying

(01:01:46):
that about Sean Payton because I talked about I talked
to Dan about that game and this is when sure, yeah,
and and you know Dan, like me and Dan are
just we're so much like the same in person. Dan
he never said anything about all that call was. You know, No,

(01:02:06):
he was like, no, we shouldn't have put ourselves in
position to actually get to up you know what I mean, Like,
you know, he like, we're all about accountability, Like that's
just waying so much in our building. And Dan was like, no, no, man,
we shouldn't have put ourselves in the position to actually
give y'all an opportunity to do that, you know what
I mean. So you know, you gotta love Dan's response

(01:02:29):
on that. This is like, that's such a Dan Campbell.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Were you were you at Jared Goff's pro day at Cow?
Were you there that day?

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
No? I wasn't at the pro day.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
They speak, they speaking legendary. I mean, I think Mike
Silver wrote a beautiful piece on it when it happened.
But like the Rams, whatever its private workout or a private.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
It was a problem. Range. Yeah, we actually purposely didn't
really send people out to his pro daye because we
kind of, yeah, we kind of wanted to keep it
close of the best. But no, I remember the private
workout and I wasn't there, but I know less you know, Jeff,
all those guys were there and you just heard it

(01:03:11):
was just like man like because I think they did
him and Carson Wentz like back to back, and I
guess you know, it was all good for Carson Wentz
in terms of the weather and the conditions, but Jared
and I never I think we kind of gave Jared
a choice to move the.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Location and he's like, no.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Let's go, and and he was out there just whipping it, man,
and he's extremely talented, and I'm so happy for him.
Just kind of too.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
I mean, I've been covering Jared since he got in,
but like for you, it's a personal connection where you know,
you draft him in La then you yourself get this
job in Detroit in the first big movie you make,
because you trade their franchise quarterback. And it almost felt
like it was a throw in, like yeah, we'll give
you golf, but here's Jared Goff. Last year as one
of the best quarterbacks in the NFC.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Well, I remember when we were hammering out the details
of the trade. I'm because you know, it was kind
of that carousel of available quarterbacks that year in terms
of like who was going to be available. So obviously
you know Stafford was getting traded to the Rams, but
I never, forget less asked me. He was like, do
you want Jared in this trade? And I was like,

(01:04:24):
hell yeah, like absolutely, Like it wasn't like, just give
me any quarterback and I was like, no, I want
Jared in this trade. And the reason why I'm so
proud of him and I'm so happy for him is
because that first year, man, like you know, look, it
was almost like the guy as a starter in LA,

(01:04:45):
Like we're out of five years, he's in the postseason,
if not super Bowl, and so it's like the one
year that he did. But yeah, so like we make
the trade, and the way that the narrative was of
how the trade went, it kind of went like, up

(01:05:05):
when Jared Goff can play? And I'm like, dude, this
guy was just in the divisional playing with a broken hand,
completing seven percent of his passes, Like why can't he
play anymore? So then we start the season and me
and Dan we tear the roster down to the stunt.
I mean literally, the only thing we really had was
an offensive line, and even all of those guys got hurt.

(01:05:26):
I mean, besides Fenny Sewell, all those guys are beat up.
So we really didn't have much in the skill player department.
We didn't really, I mean, we had a beat up
offensive line. We didn't really have any weapons around him
to throw to, Like we thought that we didn't have
any money to play with in free agency really, so
we kind of had to play the cow formula. And

(01:05:47):
then we got Tyroll Williams number Shan Paarriman as like
the oh we have those guys, and then Tyler Williams
kind of gets hurt. He's there. We cut with Sean Pairman.
So now we have like this rookie a Moners Brown
and that like that's it and so and then we
kind of claim but you know, everything that he went

(01:06:09):
through that year, I mean, you know, you gotta think Detroit,
you're talking about a football town, Like this is a
fan base that is unlike anything I've ever experienced. Like
this fan base they care about their football. I mean,

(01:06:30):
it's legit I absolutely love them, but they're mad at Jared.
I mean, he was getting the booze and all that,
and I'm like, all right, we don't have any weapons
for this guy. Offensive line is beat up. We had
to make a mid season offensive coordinator change plays for
the first time. Actually did a really good job at it.

(01:06:51):
But and I'm like, what quarterback would be successful going
through that kind of situation? Way, Like, I don't I
don't know what quarterback would be six.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
I like, I tell you something also doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
An offensive line didn't have a no c Like do.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
You know where I got my respect for him? The
toughness and all that's great, and that's quarterbacks. And yeah,
didn't say a peep, didn't speak negatively about McVeigh once,
even though there was rumors out there that like, oh yeah,
McVeigh couldn't win within him just kind of put his
head down, went to work. Okay, I'm a quarterback, let's go.
And I know he's a number one pick and he
makes a lot of money. And everyone says, well, that's
what It's a lot easier said than done.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Absolutely absolutely, And that's I've always said about Yeah, like
you said, like the toughness. Yeah, the quarter you gotta
have that, but the mental and I've always respected Jereds's
mental toughness, Like he that's one trait of him that
I think kind of goes under the radar a little bit,
but he has like top level, elite mental toughness because

(01:07:52):
I've seen a lot of things that he's been to,
Like if something off that NFC Championship game first New Orleans,
like people want to talk about, like the noise that
he had to deal with and all that stuff, But
he goes to that twenty one season and he does
not complain. He just goes through it and it starts
coming together late in the season and then you know,
he has a year that he had last year, and

(01:08:14):
now it's like, oh, Jared Golf's good, And I'm like, well,
he's actually always been good. But everybody, like I talk
about the psychology of the process, it's the recency box,
and it's like, oh, well, the last thing we saw
is Jared Golf got cast it off, so he can't
play anymore. It the last thing we saw is him
in twenty twenty one, so he can't play anymore, right,

(01:08:35):
Like I'm like, no, he can't play. So when he
had the season he had last year, I think a
lot of people were like, oh, Jared Golf, and I'm like, no,
he's He's always been a good quarterback. He's always been
uber talented, you know, he's always had those traits to
excel the football team. And so again I'm just super happy.

(01:08:56):
But like what you're saying about him, not complaining him,
not you know, saying this and that, Like that's what
makes him pretty cool. He's a Detroit line like he's
he's he's that, Like he's embodied what the city's about.
And I think the toughness and everything that he's endured,
and i think everybody just has a lot more appreciation

(01:09:18):
about him. Man. Again, i think we'll be even better
offensively this year coming up. And I'm just I'm excited
about it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
All Right, we've been on for over now, we're going
to wrap it here one last Yeah, it's been amazing.
I could do I could honestly do an audiobook with
you for six hours. I'm loving this. I want to
talk about Tavon Austin. I want to talk about Steedman Bailey.
I want to go I want to go deep. I
want to go deep, dude, I want to talk about
what that was Another one of.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Those drafts though, man like that twenty thirteen drafts.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
Man, I know I want to talk Toby Dress for
the next hour with you. Let's wrap it with this.
Lions fans listening. This is the first time in two
decades I'd say that they actually have a little pep
in their step and there's actual some national media attention
saying the Lions could be the team. I know you're
excited with what you've built. What would be your message
to Lions fans as we head towards the start a
training camp.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
You know, just continue to stick with us and just
continue to know that we're not done yet, and just
know that we're always gonna work hard, keep our pedal
to the metal, is going to stay aggressive. You know.
I love the fact that it's a lot of this
what they call buzz and hope, and I think this
fan base and our city deserves that just through all

(01:10:30):
that they've been through. But at the end of the day,
me and Dan know that, you know, we hadn't made
the playoffs yet, and so that's that that's what has
to be. We got to get in the dance and Uh,
you know we we we have full faith and optimism
that I think we have the right structure place, uh
that that we can we can get that done. But uh,
we got to go out and improve it. And that's

(01:10:53):
that's how we're wired. We're we're all about accountability and
earning it and do it the right way. And that's
what the city of Detroit is. It's roll up to sleeves,
get it done, no excuses, and just know that you
know that your your your football team is doing the
exact same thing. And I think it's a lot of
reasons for the optimism and excitement, but I do think

(01:11:16):
that you know, all the very healthy and all that.
I do think that the fans would be really excited.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
And first game Thursday night kickoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Absolutely, Brad Holmes, this was awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Honestly, I feel like we should do a weekly hour
long show.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Oh this is awesome. I didn't even know it's an hour.
I'm like, you've been a good conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Out the clocks. I love talking to you. I think
you're great at what you do. But I really honestly
think you've got great perspective, not only on football, but
on life. And it's cool your path man. I didn't
know the enterprise running car stuff, but it makes a
lot of sense to me. Yeah, as well rounded a
guy as you'll meet in the NFL. I love you
coming on. Thanks so much for joining.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Thanks a lot. You do it the right way man.
I got a lot of respect for what you do. Man,
And you know you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Hey, I had I had Jack Campbell in my top
ten just so you know. In Brad Holmes, everybody thanks Brad.
All right, all right, So if you're listening to that,
you're like, all right, this is the guy. That's the guy.
The Lions are in great hands.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Aaron.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
I don't know if you had a great familiarity with
with Brad Holmes. Aaron Kaufman, my producer, your thoughts.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
I mean, I love hearing his like his stories from
the draft room and and you know, it's such a
real story. Everyone is talking about every pick and the
Lions in particular had so many comments that you every
draft pundit is talking about they took the wrong people
at each spot. And I love hearing him just being like, no,

(01:12:49):
this guy was was like you said, yeah, who we.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Want Amble as a top fourteen guy, So screw it.
We're taking him Enterprise rental car to working as a
as an assistant to the media coordinator with the Atlanta
Hawks in a different sport, to working at the airport.
Like I hear that stuff and it's like, yeah, there's
there's it takes hard.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
Work, yeah, yeah, and his resilience and like sticking with
it and just I also loved I was out in
the field and I saw these guys that were over
there helping with practice.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
I was like, what are they?

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
I want to be that. Yeah, Brad Holmes was awesome.
If you're listening and you're Alliance fan, I think you
got to feel pretty good. If you're not a Lions fan,
you gotta at least respect the hell of the guy
who's calling the shots in the front office. This is
the season with Peter Schrieger is what we do. We
talk to men and women around the league and we
try to get them in a different light than you
usually see in front of a press conference or at

(01:13:45):
a podium. It's produced by the great Aaron Wan Kaufman.
I want to thank Chason English. I want to thank Kurt,
our editor, who's going to do a bang up job
on this. I want to thank Jack Rudd, our music maestro.
I also want to thank over on the NFL side,
the great Jason Kleinman and Matt Schneider and Meredith Batt
and David Jurenka and their team at NFL Media having

(01:14:06):
a blast. Gu season is rapidly approaching, but these off
season episodes are some of my favorite. Hope you listen
to next week's Got Another Good Guest Up Ahead the
season with Peter Schrager is a production of the NFL
in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

(01:14:29):
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.