Life After Ministry

Church transitions often expose what has been neglected for years. 

In this conversation, longtime pastor Wayne Hoag reflects on the painful lessons he learned after leaving one church unprepared for his departure and how that experience shaped a completely different approach to succession later in ministry. 

Together, we explore what healthy pastoral transitions require: humility, long-term preparation, deep love for the church, a...

Leadership transitions often don’t fail in the moment they happen. They begin to unravel long before that. 

In unclear expectations, undefined roles, and decisions made without discernment. 

This episode explores how fear, lack of clarity, and misaligned leadership structures quietly shape outcomes. It offers a clearer path forward for leaders and boards navigating change.

Key Takeaways

• Fear of mis...

Succession is one of the most important moments in the life of a ministry.

And one of the most misunderstood.

After decades working with leading Christian organizations, Steve Woodworth has watched leadership transitions unfold from behind the scenes. 

Some created momentum and clarity. Others quietly eroded trust, fractured relationships, and stalled mission.

What makes the difference?

In this episode, Steve shares the patterns he...

Leadership often looks clear in hindsight, but confusing in the moment.

For Tami Heim, the journey into leadership began with a dramatic shift in ambition. Just days after graduating college, she surrendered her plans to follow Christ, stepping into a life where leadership was no longer about advancement but obedience.

Over the next several decades, that calling would lead her through massive corporate change, cultural disruption, ...

There’s a kind of grief that doesn’t come with a clear loss. No funeral. No ending. Just the quiet ache of something that never came to be. For many in ministry, this kind of grief goes unnamed and unaddressed.

Drew Hensley calls it “invisible grief.” It’s the pain of unrealized hopes, whether that’s infertility, singleness, unmet expectations, or a future you were certain God was leading you toward. 

And because it’s unseen, it of...

Many ministry leaders begin their journey with a genuine desire to serve. But somewhere along the way, leadership can quietly become something else. 

Platforms grow. Expectations rise. Applause becomes affirmation. And before long, influence begins to shape identity.

Eric Reid spent years traveling the world teaching leadership alongside John Maxwell. From the outside, it looked like success. But internally, Eric began to notice a ...

What happens when a pastor steps away after decades of leading a church?

Many leaders imagine retirement will bring peace and freedom. 

But for pastors, the transition often carries unexpected weight. The loss of identity, the quiet grief of leaving a community, and the challenge of rediscovering purpose can make the next season far more complicated than anticipated.

After serving the same church for 35 years, Doug Bullock faced th...

What happens when the calling that once defined you no longer feels sustainable? When the work you love begins to cost you more than you can carry? 

For many ministry leaders, the hardest battles are not theological. They are personal. Emotional. Quiet. And often fought alone.

In this episode, Matt Davis sits down with Don Ross, former pastor and founder of Manhood Tribes, to talk about why so many men struggle in silence, especial...

Is there really a difference between ministry and the marketplace? Or have we created a divide that Scripture never intended?

In this episode, Curt Swindoll shares insights from 40 years of leadership across nonprofit, church, and for-profit environments. 

Having transitioned multiple times - sometimes with a plan, sometimes without - Curt challenges the assumption that ministry is something we leave behind. 

Instead, he invites le...

What if the biggest lie Christian leaders believe is that ministry only happens inside church walls?

When pastors and nonprofit leaders transition into the marketplace, many feel like they’ve stepped out of calling and into something lesser. But that assumption may be the very thing limiting the Church’s influence.

In this episode, we talk with Chuck Proudfit about faith at work, succession challenges, leadership continuity, and wh...

Most ministry leaders expect relief after stepping away. What they don’t expect is the wilderness to begin after the resignation.

In this honest conversation, Dustin Kleinschmidt shares how years of crisis leadership, misaligned values, and unresolved grief led to burnout, anxiety, and a deep reckoning with faith. 

Rather than rushing toward resolution, Dustin invites leaders to reconsider what the wilderness is actually for.

This ...

Stepping away from leadership is rarely just a strategic decision. It’s personal. Emotional. Spiritual. Especially for founders and long-term leaders who have poured their lives into a ministry.

In this episode, Jim West reflects on what it meant to hand off leadership of the Barnabas Group, a ministry he helped build and lead for over two decades. 

Just weeks after that transition, Jim was diagnosed with cancer, forcing him into a...

Most ministry transitions don’t happen suddenly. They happen slowly, quietly, and later than they should. 

In this season-ending episode, we reflect on the patterns Ministry Transitions has seen over the past year while walking with pastors, boards, nonprofits, and faith-driven organizations.

From delayed conversations to the quiet crisis of succession, this episode names the realities leaders often feel but rarely say out loud. 

I...

At some point in ministry, we start confusing busyness for faithfulness. We tell ourselves that exhaustion is just the cost of obedience - that being needed, stretched thin, and constantly available somehow means we’re doing it right. 

But deep down, we know something’s wrong.

In this episode of Life After Ministry, Matt Davis sits down with his longtime friend Andrew Hartman to talk about what happens when time becomes our boss. A...

Most pastors imagine ministry as a lifelong calling, until something shifts - slowly, painfully, or all at once. 

In this episode, Brad Gray and Brad Nelson share their unfiltered stories of leaving pastoral ministry, wrestling through uncertainty, and discovering the faithful presence of God in seasons where nothing made sense. 

Their journeys reveal how transitions can expose hidden wounds, force honest discernment, and ultimatel...

Dr. Nathan Baxter loved ten hours of his job. Those one-on-ones with staff fueled him. The rest slowly emptied him. Naming that truth started a two-year journey out of a role he’d held for decades. He didn’t abandon ministry. He changed vehicles so his calling could breathe again. In this conversation Nathan walks through a practical runway. He set a modest income target, built a small savings cushion, and launched a coaching prac...

When the role that once fit like a second skin begins to suffocate, what do you do? For Duncan Robinson, it meant stepping away. No scandal. No collapse. Just honesty and courage to say, “I need to sit down and be fed.”

That decision took him from church staff to radio hosting, from the pulpit to row three, and eventually back into ministry with a new clarity. 

Along the way, he discovered how to face failure without fear, how to d...

Ministry employment isn’t just HR. It’s covenant community, stewardship, and public witness. 

In this episode, attorney and former ministry leader John Melcon explains how churches and nonprofits can handle staff transitions without abandoning their values or ignoring real risks.

John shares his own sudden exit from a director role in Christian higher education and how that season led him to serve ministries as legal counsel. 

He o...

Quiet fatigue rarely announces itself. It hums under the surface until a crisis forces a decision. 

In this conversation, Marine veteran and Forte co-founder Vineet Rajan reframes care for leaders as mental fitness - a proactive, daily practice that keeps pastors and nonprofit teams clear-headed, resilient, and ready.

We contrast mental fitness with therapy, name the everyday pressures leaders face, and offer accessible rhythms tha...