139 - A Hundred Feelings

Karen and Georgia cover the Kunz Family Murders and the murder of Joan Dawley.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi, Hi, Welcome to the Choose your Own Adventure podcast
My Favorite Murder.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is a true crime comedy podcast that you tune
into week after week to find a good time, good feeling.
It's fun, friendship, that's what we're here for.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yes, yeah, that's what's happening. That's what's happening. What's going
on with you?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, I guess I should start off with a humongous
corrections corner.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Haven't had one in a while.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
This correction's corner is so big that I actually had
to start it during the minisode that has already come out.
It's that important, it's that big. It's going to change
a lot of the policies around here. I made a
terrible mistake during Georgia's murder the last time we recorded

(01:04):
in house, not the live show uh from Vegas last week,
but the week before.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Georgie was talking about British pedophiles.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
I'm not sure what was happening, but she was trying
to think of the name of someone, and I jumped in,
knowing full well what the name was, and I said
that the name of a British pedophile, a famous British
bitter stopho was Jimmy Somerville. That is not correct.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, you got the name I was looking for, and
I said okay, and we went moved on.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
You know, the only wrong part was that there was
about five letters too many in the middle of that name,
so close. Jimmy Saville is the terrible BBC presenter, maybe
not even BBC presenter, who was.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Also a horrifying pedophile.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Jimmy Somerville, on the other hand, was the lead singer
in the Bronsky Bet and the Commune Arts in Bronskiy V.
There's no the in front of Bronsky b and he
is an incredibly talented musician and by all accounts a
wonderful human being by all.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Hundreds and hundreds of accounts that people tweeted at US
trading accounts tweeted accounts.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
So the British they caught win very quickly of a
correction corner that had to happen. So my apologies to
the Somerville family an estate to both Bronski Beat and
the Commune Ards.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
I apologize.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
It was a terrible mistake, and in the future, Stephen,
if we're having a conversation about now, I don't want
to blame Stephen but I'm going to if we're having
a conversation about pedophiles, will you.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Please double check any name I say, I guess when
we guess a name of someone who is a terrible
human being, and it's not like written down on a
piece of paper, just go ahead and throw it into Google.
I've got the red pen, thank you, and then throw
it at us. Throw the red pen at.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Us, and say stop improvising crime facts.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, it's important.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
I was positive when I said Jimmy Somerville that I
was right.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
I was positive by the way you said, Jimmy Sommerville,
that you were right.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
You know why because I had a uh, I had
a B side of a commune ards single in college
uh where Jimmy Somerville sings zing went the strings of
my heart so beautifully. I used to play it over
and over in my dorm room, my short lived dorm room,
and I just felt such a connection that I wanted

(03:31):
to call him a pedophile.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
EVE been waiting to yell out his name and with
joy for so long. Finally had an opportunity. It was
just my chance. It was just a chance you took it.
It was just happened to not be the right moment.
It was. It happened to be the worst chance, yes,
that I could take. Yeah, it happened to just ruin
everybody his name out again, Yeah, or any name.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Really, here's a fun thing to talk about. We still
have lots of groups that are unsung and unheralded. So
in case you have interests that are aside from just.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
This true crime podcast, there are other subgroups that you
could join. We'll just name a couple for you right now.
You're in occult call. Your Corgi is one Parsley Sage,
Rosemary and Crime. I don't know if that's I'm hoping
that's like a food cooking one. Is that what it is? Even?

(04:31):
I love it. That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
There's drag Arenas, which is MFM meets RuPaul's Drag Race.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
That's pretty awesome. That's good. There's Queer Eye for them
Orderino and I have of course some obsessed with Jonathan
Jonathan van Ass from Queer Eye, so I love that.
That's a good crossover.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Of course, there's the book What If Something Bad Happens
anxiety support group.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Who doesn't need that? Not me? I'm good, I'm all good.
Don't worry about mine, my favorite cucumber. What on earth
could that be? Is that like vegans? Oh, it's just cucumbers, Stephen,
are you joining these? Doesn't It was just in the
description that just said cucumbers, and you just.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Love cucumbers of any sort. We were actually watching videos
the other day at work of remember they got popular
for a little while, the videos where you put a
cucumber behind a cat and then when it turns around
and sees it, it just jumps straight the fuck.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Up in the air.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Well, it turns out I'm the only one at work
that thinks that's funny, and everybody else was bummed out
that they were. It was me and to cats, Oh please,
I was like, but it's it's their instincts.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
They can't control it. They think it's a snake.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
And that makes their feet shoot them directly into the air.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Snake. I think they think it's a snake. They do
have bananas too, Oh really, all this can't all this
is scared of bananas. He's terributed bananas. Went like, when
you're at Christmas, when we have a Christmas tree, we
we surround it with bananas because otherwise he'll go eat
the Christmas tree. Wow. And he'll just stay away. So
like bananas are our new Christmas decoration.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
I wonder if he thinks that's like a really poisonous
snake from the inner jungle.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
I think the smell of it is like really really
repulsive to him somehow, Like maybe it's not poisonous. I
don't know, it's just personal preference. He's a cat. There's
not a lot of explaining to do when it comes
to cats or.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Ways to figure it out. No, here comes, but here
comes a tweet a boat, cat, bananas. Get ready to
have it explained to you?

Speaker 1 (06:30):
You want that explained to me? I know.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
And then of course there's murdering, no beauty basket, lotions,
which is.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
It's just like, it's like, it's a fun way we
could say something. Let's make that into a group.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
I like it, I mean, because that could be it
could be about beauty and keeping moisturized and loving silence
of the lamp exactly.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
There's so many Look, we all are so complex. Yeah,
we can contain multiple we have we like two things,
not just one thing.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
I have listened This is a little bit off topic,
but I listened to a podcast this week that upset
me so much.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Have you listened to Doctor Death. Oh no, everyone loves that, Okay, everything.
This isn't even a recommendation because it's huge.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
It's like every time I open my podcast app, it's
the thing that's on there.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
It's like if it were like you guys should try
the podcast Cereal. Yes, everyone knows it, but it's so good.
It's from Wandery. It's really well made. It's very journalistic.
But it is about I never knew that I had
any kind of a fear or phobia about botch surgery.
And it's about a spinal surgeon who botches surgery after surgery,

(07:40):
and it is about these two these two.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Other they're neurosurgeons, because when you work on the spine,
who go after him because they keep getting called in
to fix his shit?

Speaker 1 (07:51):
And it is I listened to I was like Georgia.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
I binged like three episodes and then realized I was
literally holding onto.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
The hitching table because you're just standing there listening to
a podcast and sweating and like freaking. It's the thing
of how does this keep like that? When we hit
murder stories like that, I just can't handle it. It's like,
why doesn't someone stop this person from doing all these things.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Well and the scary thing. So I would say this too.
If you're going to listen to Doctor Death, make sure
you don't have claustrophobia issues like fear of surgery.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Do not listen to this podcast. Make sure about to
get surgery. Yeah, if you're getting spinal surgery the next day,
don't try to go to sleep listening.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
To the podca don't fall asleep to this podcast. Like truly,
it's a warning. But if you if all that is
clear for you, it is the best.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
I mean, I can't believe this story and these doctors
that are in it. It's the time happened in the
two thousand. I wanted to be like the eighties taking
you're like, yeah, they fucked up shit like that all
the time.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Exactly what we recorded with Chris Farabanks yesterday, Do you
need a ride? And that's exactly what Chris said. He said,
when did it happen? I said, the two thousands, and
he goes, I needed it to be the eighties.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
I needed to be like, well, they fucked everything up
in the eighties, look at us.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
But here's the thing, and this is kind of what's
compelling about it. It's about how when the healthcare system
is all for profit and everybody's worried about making money
and getting sued about all anyone cares about how much
it fucks the patient.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
And it's like the red and it's like the red
tape that's there so that you can't just you know,
call out some other doctor like he fucks everything up,
But it's there for the good. But then when it's
when it's it can't be used to get someone who
should not be fucking doing these things. Yes, out of town,
that's exactly right. That's that's what they talk about.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Is no hospital would quote unquote fire this doc, right
because then he could turn around.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
And sue them for wrongful termination and for ruining their career.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
So he just keeps getting let go and given like
we think you're great letters, and he gets keeps getting
sent to worse and worse neighborhoods where people can't fight,
where there's no money to fight doctors like that, right
is like it is as scary as any serial killer
story we've ever told.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
He's it's fucking so intense.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
I was sweating like through my shirt where it's like
I'm so unhappy and uncomfortable and I'm like, oh, yeah,
this podcast is freaking the shit out of it.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
I don't know if I can listen to it right now.
I know I'm gonna I want to, I don't know
if I can. Do you need a more uplifting Yeah?
Is there a good uplifting one? Do you have one? Well?
Jonathan Fanis is Getting Curious Is He's just such a
lovely man. He's amazing God. I love that and such
a good host. Yeah, and like truly curious. I mean
it's called getting curious, but truly he just sounds like

(10:36):
he has his curiosity and it's Oh. How about the
podcast Everything is Alive, where this person interviews people, interviews
objects as if they're people. There's like a bar of soap.
When I listened to recently that, I was like, I'll
put this on us and my laying in bed and
I just was laughing so hard I couldn't fall asleep,
so I had to turn it off. That shit, what

(10:56):
else do you have? Oh?

Speaker 2 (10:58):
I listened to Dave Chang's podcast. He is the amazing
chef from who also is the host of Ugly Delicious
and a Bunch of Stuff. He has a podcast now
and he interviews his friends because he wants to talk
about or from what I can gather, I've listened to too,
but he likes talking about people who are successful, kind

(11:19):
of in the face of adversity or like that no
one believes in. It's kind of like an underdog how
did you get? How did you get to where you got?
Type of podcasts. And he's such a good interview he's
such a like passionate person.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
I just really like that guy. So that's Pagan his
career so far. He is It's crazy, truly so admirable, admirable, admirable, admirable,
not admirable.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
He also is admirable. Oh wait, there's one more, but
it's not light good.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
I don't like love light.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Okay, it is the comprehensive story. It's CBC's Uncover Escaping Nexium.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
And here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
The host guy runs into a girl he went to
high school with in a park and she goes, He goes,
what have you been up to?

Speaker 1 (12:07):
She was, I just escaped a cult.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
So he then the whole thing is he already had
this relationship with her, He's known her since she was
a teenager. And she tells them the story of how
she got involved in Exiam, which is that cult that
that actress from Smallville just got arrested and is being
like there's charges against her for like sex trafficking and
all this crazy shit.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Like branded themselves and shit too, they were branded and
she has a brand on her. This girl it is.
Someone was explaining to me that who'd listened to the podcast,
how they got branded and how they did it with
like a laser pointer. Yeah, not like something normal like
a fucking safety pin.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Or yeah, well not all at once, like a brand
where it hurts once and then you're done.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
It took half an hour and you could smell the
flush birding.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yes, and it's huge and it's really you have to
listen to it because it's one thing for people to
tell you about that cult, but this is a person
from the inside being like and then and then this
and then that, and the whole thing is based on
like pyramids, games on the on what the salesmanship thing.

(13:11):
So it starts out as like, don't you want to
improve your life and your career, which of course everyone does,
and that's normal, and then they basically blend you into
suddenly you're you're a slave and the person.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Your mentor is you need a master people to come
to come to the cult and join it, and like
if you get five pyramids, you win, you win the
pyramid prize, the Pyramid game. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
It's so intense. It's really another one that's really well done.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Okay, I'll listen to that. That one I can deal with. Yeah,
that one is.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
And she's she got out and her husband got out,
like the family was in it was crazy bananas.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
I know, I'll listen to that. Those ones are good.
There's been a lot of good stuff lately. Yeah, anything
else right now.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
I've just been back at work, so I don't. I
just have been a little bit. I listen to things
on the way to and from work.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, and that's about it. Well, we have one more
episode left of Fucking the Sinner, which I was a sight.
This last episode was so good. It was so good.
The kid, the actor is so good.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
I love him, the little boy, Julian Julian and.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
Of course Carrie Coon, Oh my god, who've started following
us on Facebook? I mean, on where are we? Twitter? On?
Twitter's telling her it's like her cool assistant, who's like
she doesn't follow people. There's enough time. She's in every
TV show. Every show she like, hasn't looked at Twitter.
She's killing it. She's like, Michelle, my assistant, who's cool?

(14:37):
Do stuff on Twitter? Right? You're naming her assistant Michelle?
Uh huh okay, yeah, there was.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
That was such a natural piece of dialogue that I
thought you had an assistant named Michelle named Michelle is
DVR and Carrie Kuon's TV show.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
For me, No, I love it. It's so good. Mm hmm.
I know I'm going to that's one. I'm going to
be sad when it's open me too. Maybe there'll be
another season.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Though, Yeah, I hope so and I figured out we
were looking it up. I think it worked because it
was we were talking about it. One of the guys
that directs The Sinner was a producer on that independent
movie Martha Marcy May Marlene, which.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Was is Elizabeth Oh, thank you, Stephen Olsen, Elizabeth Olson.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
The Child, No, No, no, No, the great actress Elizabeth
Olsen who in that independent movie is herself in a
cult and gets out.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
It's one of the best movies. If you haven't seen that,
haven't It is so fucking Martha Marcy May Marlene is
the name of the movie, and it's similar in terms
of the look and the feel to the Sinner. And
so I just love when things connect like that way,
were like I like this and I like that and
made that. Yeah that's fun. Yeah I dig that. Who

(15:56):
goes first this week? I think it's me. No, it's
because Vegas was last thing. Yeah, oh right, yeah, yeah, okay,
well sure Ted Binyon, I'll go ahead and go first.
Well then, sure not, I'll try it. This is one
of those murders that I normally wouldn't have even probably
looked twice up, but it's in so many of those

(16:17):
weird small town murder lists. Every time you see one
of those lists, this murder comes up in it. Okay.
So I just thought so many times and I was
finally like, Oka, I'm gonna look into this a little bit.
And it's it's weird for sure, and it also like
kind of it's it deviates. So this is the Koon's
Family Murders. Family Kunz this is. It takes place in

(16:38):
a small town of Wisconsin, and it's on every one
of those like small town murders. You haven't heard about
that fucking rock? This small town that and you also
haven't heard of a small town? Okay, you know what
I mean? Yes, is it Wisconsin?

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Remember when we drove we were separate, but we drove
from like somewhere to somewhere else in Wisconsin for the
Madison Show. Probably maybe I was with Michelle Balloon and
you and vincetrove together.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
And we stopped. Didn't we stop at that big barn
the ozark Land? Maybe oh that was the way home. Okay,
But anyway, I've.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Just immediately my mind is like when you're in in
like small town Wisconsin, you're far away from things.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, yeah, and people and this is this, this is here. Okay.
So I got a lot of information from this website
called Mysterious Heartland dot com and it's an article written
by guy named Scott Whitman. And I think I've used
this website a few times because it's kind of like
you can't find a lot of details about these murders.
It's like, you know number ten on this list, so
you don't it's just two paragraphs, but this is actually

(17:41):
a long article. And then there's a couple of really
good comments that like list theories and shit too. Okay,
So it's cool.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
I love that small town gossip, dude. I mean, that's
the best way to fill in a story. It's all true,
it's all true.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah. You know. So this is a town called Athens
In it's a it's a quaint rural town in north
central Wisconsin, and the population is a little under a
thousand people. So it's fucking small town for sure. It's
like a post office. It's a post office. It's less

(18:13):
than two and a half square miles in size. Like, well,
that's fucking it. The little town where the post office is.
The teenagers just drive around the outside of town every
Friday night, right, it's doughnuts in the fields, cows tipping
I don't know what, cows tipping, teenagers over, cows sipping
cars over you know, Mayhem. It's got that small town atmosphere.

(18:37):
There's a course, a close sense of community, which is
why on the night of the fourth of July nineteen
eighty seven, the whole town of under a thousand people
is shocked when five members of a family are all murdered,
all shot in the head in their home with a
twenty two caliber rifle, fucking execution style. And it's just like, wait,

(18:57):
what this is saying like shit like that doesn't happen here.
So the Coonses, I'll tell you about them. They're reclusive,
super reclusive, kind of like the town like these this
is the weird town. Don't go to their house people. Oh,
they're like weird and creepy. They live together in a
dilapidated old farmhouse in the outskirts of Athens on one
hundred and eight acre farm and the families made up

(19:20):
of four elderly siblings who live in this farmhouse. Irene
is eighty one, Clarence is seventy six, Maria seventy two,
and the youngest sibling is Helen who's seventy. They all
live together in this dilapidated farmhouse.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Brothers and sisters in their eighties and seventies. You just
took it into creepzone five.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Well, okay, so there's this episode of that was only
aired once of X Files that they everyone says it's
based on this family and it's creepy and weird, and
they took it and it's like it's not creepy in
like alien ways, it's creepy in like this what yes,
it's called home is.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Jack black Innett you remember, is this the one where
the boys are playing baseball and they step on something
and blood comes out of the ground.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
It's it's I know that's the episode Giovanni Ribisi where
there's like lightning. Okay, but home, Yeah, I just got
chills and you mentioned here. Let me read let me
read the description of it. Do you remember it, seem
because it's really hard to find. You can't. It's hard
to find online. They like as soon as it airs.
They've got so many complaints because it was so creepy
that way they took it down. Was there something under
a dresser? There was like a we kept the mom

(20:27):
under the Yes, yeah, okay, okay, I saw let me
read you the description of it, and I couldn't even
find it. I wanted to watch it and I couldn't
find it. It's Home is a second episode of the
fourth season of The of X Files. Blah Blah blah
blah blah, aired in nineteen ninety six. It's a Monster
of the Week story, a standalone plot unconnected the initial broadcast.

(20:48):
It was the only first episode of The X Files
to receive a viewer discretion warning for graphic content, and
they only carry a tvm A rating. So yeah, it's
just essentially just a creepy family story, but it's not.
It sounds similar, but it's not. It wasn't apparently based
on this story, okay, but everyone thinks it is. So
the four elderly siblings live there, and they also live

(21:11):
there with Helen, who's the youngest sibling, her two adult sons.
Randy is thirty and he lives in the farmhouse with
his aunts and uncles, uncle and mom. And then Kenneth
is fifty five. He lives on a trailer on the property.
He's like, I'm not fucking staying with these people. So
their ramshackle farmhouse has no running water and no indoor

(21:33):
plumbing at all where they all live together. They use
an outhouse and all the food is cooked on an
old wood burning stove, which also is used to heat
the house. This is in the eighties. Uh huh, Okay.
The family keeps to themselves. They don't they don't like
party with her friends and shit, and they don't party
the fuck them man. Oh yeah, they don't like to

(21:54):
hang and party and you know, have I don't know,
socials and tougher parties and go to fish fries it
near town. Make a hot dish, got it? You know.
And they're known to be hoarders, which includes a large
collection of pornography. They're like super in and I hate
to take ill in the dead because I'm not like
they were gross in this and that it's like these
are the rumors and they were actually like confirmed to

(22:15):
be true once the family died and they went through
the house.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Not common though, to have family collections of pornography. That's
different than the usual.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, because it's like everyone likes something else. It's how
do you agree on what movie to watch? That's right?

Speaker 2 (22:28):
You know, it's hard enough to just with a standard movie, right,
Lesian drama, right, romance, porn, porn.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
So the fa they have a huge collection of porn,
including mail order VHS tapes because that's how you had
to get porn back then, probably especially in fucking rule
rural Wisconsin's right, right, and magazines and they're but they're hoarders,
so it's like everywhere and then the family would watch
the tapes together, no, and then there's rumors also that
there was incestuous happenings.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Well that one would beget the other, right, one would think.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
That's right, yeah, yeah, I mean you can stop now.
And this is one of the creepier stories that we've
ever head. Yeah, it's it's definitely got some things. It's
also rumored and found to be true after the murders
that there are large amounts of cash like hidden around
the house. They're hidden in drawers, in boxes, under floorboards,

(23:23):
and it's just like huge, like twenty grand Is talked
about being like found in one place. And but it's
weird because there's only one member of the family, one
of the sons, Kenneth, who actually has a job. No
one else has a job because they're fucking eighty one
years old and shit, and they don't have running water,
but they have all this cash everywhere. God, is someone

(23:45):
selling porn out of like a back window. It's a
great question. You can walk by hold up a five
dollar bill, right, But they don't want anyone to get
that close, do they. I don't know, I don't know.
Maybe they have one of those grabbers from the store, right, Yeah,
I love those high shelf one of those as with
a tall husband. It's like, I need to make a
video of me trying to get something down from the

(24:05):
fucking copboard when Vince is like putting the crackers here,
and it's like three feet taller than me. Oh and
speaking of crackers, Kenneth, who the only one, had a job,
worked at a cheese factory, which I'm like, sign me up.
That sounds fun. It smells bad. I bet you're right. Yeah, Okay,
So none of the siblings had ever none of the
older siblings had ever married, but Helen had these two sons.

(24:26):
She had given birth to her first son, Kenneth, when
she was fifteen, and she said that the pregnancy was
a result of their the family's neighbor, a dude who's
forty years old named Frank Gums. He's a convicted bootlegger,
and she said he raped her and she got pregnant
with Kenneth because she had at fifteen. Frank was tried
and convicted shortly after Helen gave birth, and he was

(24:47):
sent to prison and he died after he served eighteen months.
He had denied that he had ever had sex or
raped either way with Helen. Wow. Years later, Helen gave
birth to her other her younger son, Randy. Wouldn't name
who the father was. Hey, let's related. Let's talk about

(25:08):
sleeping arrangements at the farmhouse. Oh no, they're weird. Helen
and her youngest son slept in the same bed together,
and Clarence, who's the eighty one year old uncle dude.
He sleeps in the living room with his other two sisters,
Irene and Marie. They all sleep like it's kind of like, uh,

(25:31):
willy wonka, everyone in the bed. Grab That's what it
sounds like. And I actually looked trying to find a
photos of I can't find any of those of the family,
but I could find a photos of the farmhouse. And
you look at it and you're like, if someone told
me that was like a quaint villa in Italy, I'd
be like, oh my god, it's so quaint and cute.
But then you're like, no, no, that's like a farmhouse. It's
falling apart. It's like weird. So it kind of looks
almost maybe historic or something. It looks very old and

(25:54):
very like quaintly, you know, dilapidated. And then it's like,
not quaintly dilapidated, it's just still appidated.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
And there's just people spooning each other all over the
inappropriate place inside and that's not quaint either.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
No, it isn't. You can put the word quaint in
front of a lot of shit and it makes it okay,
does it. That's not one of them. No. Yeah, So Kenneth,
who's the one, is like absolutely not living in the house.
He lives on his own trailer. He ends up spoiler alert,
being the only surviving member of the family. He doesn't
die in those execution oh shit, So he's still alive.

(26:29):
And he later claims that his father was not the
raping neighbor, but his own uncle, Clarence. Oh, he's like,
that was my fucking dad. He also thinks that it
was his younger brother's dad too, and he also said
that he had seen Helen and his uncle Clarence engage
in sexual activity when he was a kid. So like,

(26:50):
he's the one who who's saying that there's incessed stuff
going on. Yeah, he would know. I wrote it's like
if the grandparents from Willy Wonka moved to the Psycho House.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Oh no, and everyone just kind of lost their lost it. Yeah,
no more fun songs and pajama stuff.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Nothing cute about it. No. So the murders occurred on
the fourth of July. As I said in nineteen eighty seven,
the town had their big fireworks show celebration. I don't
know what to call it. And then what do they
call it? Celebration? Sounds good, show, fireworks display.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
A show makes me think of people kind of doing
like lime kicks, right, which they absolutely could have up
an Athens.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, they could have had the like guy plays Abe Lincoln. Yep,
for some reason.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Abe Lincoln would be there for sure, you know, like
a yeah, like a Fourth of July parade, a big
tully blink.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah. Oh, and then there are pets that have like
that get dressed up too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Probably a town queen, yeah, round the probably maybe the
cheese factory queen.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah. The princess, the cheese factory princess, the Wisconsin cheese
Factory Athens princess. And she rides on a rolling wheel
of cheese right down the main street. She throws cheese
kurds to the audience and they're not the spectators. Yeah,
the spectators who love cheese curds. Well, who doesn't. This
is one of the greatest holidays in this country. Let's

(28:10):
go this year to Athens. Thing we made up? Yes,
I'm like, why where is it? I only have it
where's it was never a thing, You fucking idiots with
your stupid podcast to just believe in shit just showed
up here in the movie.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
There's going to be a Fourth of July parade, absolutely
with the giant a blink and will be there and
will be there writing it.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
So Helen and her younger son Randy had been last
seen leaving this parade. That's not break Break the fourth
of July show. Yes, okay, it is a corroborated that
they were last seen leaving this made up thing. And sorry,
it's the youngest son and the youngest son and the mother. Yeah,

(28:55):
and uh so there's last scene leaving that I already
said that. Okay. So sometime that night after they get
home from the parade and someone broke into their decrepit
home and shoots the family execution style. They're not discovered
until the next morning when the other son, Kenneth, who
has the job, when he comes home at around five

(29:16):
am and discovers the body of his aunt's uncle and brother.
So aunt Marie is seventy two. She's found on the
steps just going into the house, like maybe running into
the house. His kind of brother, Randy is thirty He's
laying on the kitchen floor dead. Irene is sitting in
a chair in the living room having been shot, and Clarence,

(29:39):
his maybe uncle, maybe dad, is discovered in his bed shot.
They had all been shot twice in the head with
the twenty two caliber rifle, and his mother, Helen is
fucking nowhere to be found. Whoa yeah, and she's gone?
Where is she? And when I get to that part,
you know, when I hadn't known about the story, I'm like, oh,
she killed them all, Like, what's to happen? She didn't,

(30:02):
but listen, so look Suspicion initially falls on Kenneth, the
son who found them, but police rule him out quickly
because he has an instant like extremely low IQ and
he has trouble answering questions from the detectives and is
painfully shy. I don't know how that would rule you
out from murdering someone, but I'm hoping that they they

(30:23):
figured it out. Shyness. Shyness would just rule you out entirely,
being really stupid and shy, be too shy to approach
anyone with a gun. Yeah, and I'm too My IQ
is too low to figure out how to shoot a gun.
I don't know, maybe maybe the cops.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
It's also the thing of like small town police where
they're like, we know these we know this guy.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
He could never do it because we've we've known him.
It's fucking Kenneth. He works at the cheese place. Yeah,
he goes to you know he everyone knows it's not him.
The community is shocked at the Grissom murders, of course,
and they're like, we gotta find Helen, Like maybe she
was kidnapped and she's still alive. We need to find her.
They create t shirts and buttons with wear's Helen on

(31:02):
them that to help find her, and they lead a
massive search. The police search the fields for swampland on
the one hundred and eight acre farm of the Kunz family,
as well as the property and wetlands surrounding it. So
I think it's just all rules shit, and they're just
like trying to find this body or this person. Yeah,

(31:22):
especially equipped FBI airplane also scans the area. Well Abandoned
shacks are inspected, gardens dug up on the farm land.
Neighbors are interrogated, but everyone was kind of like they
kept to themselves. Nobody knew them, no one was like
pretty much nobody ever went to that house or was
allowed in the house. You know, they were like very
secretive and reclusive. So they have no friends at all

(31:47):
either to speak of. But Helen's only friend was porn,
which we know is a fickle friend. She's a fickle lady,
that porn, That's right. Her disappearance becomes anationwide search and
over the next couple of months because they feel like
finding her is going to find out what happened. That's
like the only way because they can't figure out why

(32:07):
anyone want to kill this reclusive family who had anything
against them, And so residents are like speculating that she
did it, or that you know, she's on the run
or she's kidnapped. Everyone's of course, like trying to figure
out what happened. And they do find out too that
the week before the murders, she had purchased a twenty

(32:27):
two She had purchased twenty two caliber bullets, which are
the same type of anna used for the murders, from
the local hardware store, and that she had had a
conversation with the clerk who was like, what are these four,
which I guess is a question that's okay to ask
when someone's buying bullets, might as well, I mean, you
should probably, yeah, And she said that they were her
for her son Randy, who was going to kill some
blackbirds that were on the property. But speculation then comes

(32:49):
to a halt because nine months after the night of
the murders, Helen's skeletal remains are found near a creek
about nineteen miles from the home in Medford, Wisconsin, just
as her siblings and son. She had been shot in
the head, and it only complicates this baffling case. But
the murder investigation then starts to focus on a twenty

(33:13):
two year old local car fief and like fucking like
nefarious nay or do well kid named Chris Jacobs. So
he's kind of this troublemaker, you know. So of course
the cops turned to him and are like, you know,
did you do it? And they find out that he's
one of the few non family members to ever interact
with the Konses at their home, so he had been
in their home before apparently, and it makes him the

(33:35):
prime suspect. He was there because he had purchased some
old cars from the Coonses in the recent past, and
when questioned by police, he had no alibi for the time.
What they suspected was the time of the murders, which
was ten thirty, but like, who knows if that's correct.
He was in his car the night of the murders
and then he went home his mother's like he was

(33:56):
totally home with me. And I remember that night because
he helped his mother give birth to a calf. The
mother didn't give the mother didn't give birth to the cap,
but they birth half half was birthed to thank you.
I don't know how to say that. And they lived
about eight miles from the home. He's like, it wasn't me,
and they were Then they found tire tracks left on

(34:18):
the Koons's property that matched one of the tire or
a car that he had on his property. But he
was like, yeah, I fucking fixed old cars up. So
there's like a time, like there's a reason that that.
Of course you're going to find a tire like that.
And then it comes out that the tires are pretty
common under different names. But they still are like, Nope,

(34:39):
we think it's you, and they take him. They arrest
him and take him to trial after the murders. So
the process of Kishin's argument is that when Chris had
gone to buy the car, he had noticed that there
was money everywhere, even though the defense was like, well,
the money was hidden everywhere, but maybe he knew it
was there, and he told a witness that he intended
to get his hands on it. But investigators found that

(35:01):
like twenty fucking grand in cash after the murders at
the crime scene, and the defense said that it was
like laying out, but prosecution said it were no way. Prosecution,
you know, maybe it was laying out, maybe it wasn't.
We don't really know. The defense has a theory that
Randy and his family were shot as a result of

(35:21):
a drug deal gone bad. So it was known around
town that Randy, the son who was killed, was dealing
drugs in the area. And at the trial, the defense
brought a witness who claims that he had purchased cocaine
from Randy in the past, and it was also well
it was the area was in a drug crisis at
the time, as fucking every area was in the eighties.

(35:42):
A local woman testified that the night of the murder,
so she's going through this, She's driving through an intersection
about one hundred meters one hundred feet close to the
close to the crime scene, and the one hundred arms length, Yeah,
one hundred baby steps, Yeah, one hundred paper clips. Okay,
you're feeling ane hundred blinks, got it from the crime scene.

(36:05):
So she's driving through this intersection. It's like a rural area,
and so she's driving through and she sees that there's
a car, just a truck parked by the side of
the road, facing in the area where Kenny would have
had to drive up the area the direction he would
have been coming from, if like after she's factory work,
if you were coming home, okay, And it looked like
they were waiting to like for a car to come home.

(36:25):
And so she sees the car going through the intersection.
She looks to see who's in the car, but the
car shines a light in her face, so she can't
see anything and who's in the car or anything like that.
And she says, I know, if that happen you where
you were, like, I wonder what this is A yeah,
They're like, we don't want you to know. And then
as she's driving past the Comb's farm, the fucking truck

(36:47):
turns run starts to follow her. Oh, and she's like,
oh shit. But as soon as she passes the farm,
the car goes back and sits back in the road.
It's like, clearly they're waiting to see who's coming by.
It's not just someone pulled over like making out or whatever,
like taking a nap. And the car doesn't match the
description of the dude on trial his car. So the
defense theory is that Randy had planned to meet his

(37:09):
suppliers that night and pay them the money that he
owed them for the drugs that he had been selling.
And Randy the kid, the son who was dead, they
think that the Kenny, the brother who was alive, who
had the cheese factory job, who wasn't very smart, that
he had given Kenny some drugs to sell at the
cheese factory. Oh, and so that Kenny had. And then

(37:31):
it's also known that Kenny had large amount amounts of
cash on him that night, the night of the fourth
of July, and he bought a huge amount of fireworks
and yeah, I mean, what would you do? Clearly the
huge amount of cash on fourth of July absolutely pickelopiza
for everybody, right, but he never set them off. And
then he went to a bar and bought more fireworks
and like bought alcohol that night a little was like

(37:52):
hanging out and drinking. So like, why does he have
this huge amount of money on him? Maybe he spent
the drug money that he was supposed to go give
to his brother, not knowing that the brother like owed
a debt to these drug dealers, and the drug dealers like,
we're going to fucking wait here till your brother gets home.
Don't lie to us, like we're gonna get this cash.
And meanwhile he's out just just binging fireworks, binging fireworks

(38:14):
and alcohol. And then maybe he was like, oh shit,
if I go home right now, my brother's going to
know I spent all this money. I'm just going to
sleep it off in the car. And so he sleeps
in his car that night, which is why he didn't
get home till five am. Oh to find his family dead.
Oh no, So they think that maybe what happened was
the drug dealers were like this is taking forever, Like,
let's go in we know you have money hidden in
the house, let's go in there. They go in there.

(38:36):
Maybe they take the helen in the car to wait
with them, like kind of hostage. Oh right, And when
they didn't show up. Maybe they took Randy and his
mother hostage and then wait at the intersection, they don't
show up. They go in the house, there's maybe a
fight that breaks out, and then the suppliers kill everyone

(38:56):
in the house, so there's no witnesses. They come back
to their car where the mother is hanging out, doesn't
know what's going on. They drive away and they kill
her and leave in this remote swamp and they kill
her and leave her body there. So like that's why,
because why would she not have been in the house
is always this weird question, you know, right, Like why
take the one person somewhere off campus and kill them, right,

(39:18):
but leave all these other bodies just out? Yeah, that's
super weird, like, and so that's a good way to
explain why she was found in a different location. Yeah,
and the only one who was right. Yeah, So there's
no fingerprints or footprints at the scene, which is weird
because there was tire prints and Chris's car had no bloodstain.
The guy who's on trials no bloodstain or any evidence

(39:40):
that Helen or Randy had ever been in the car.
And because of all of this, the trial is super
brief and because of the circumstantial case against him. He's
acquitted for lack of evidence. Oh good, She's like great, yeah,
but hold on, oh wait, there's more. Okay. After trial,
the case grows cold and the police aren't able to
find more promising suspects there. They still think it's this kid,

(40:00):
this dude Chris. But until that is until nineteen ninety three,
five years after the killing, this dude Chris Jacob's ex
girlfriend Stacy Weiss comes forward and she's like, Oh, I've
got to tell you guys. This my ex boyfriend, Jacob.
Chris Jacobs admitted to shooting the family. He said he
did it. Oh no, he told me that she but

(40:23):
she had been recently caught in Minnesota as an accessory
to robbery, and she had threatened when Chris broke up
with her to get back at him, so she basically
had this bargaining chip. Yeah, okay, he told me he
killed them, all right, And they're like, well, you're like,
well wait, like that doesn't that doesn't sound right. And

(40:43):
he had already gotten acquitted from this case, so we
can't try him again. There's double jeopardy while they arrest
him again. Oh, and they're like well, we're not arresting
him and prosecuting him for the murders. It's one day
before the statute of limitations runs out on kidnapping that
they they arrest him for Kellen's kidnapping and take him

(41:03):
to trial for the kidnapping one day before the statute
of limitations and he's charged with her abduction, and his
trial this time for a different crime. He is convicted.
Oh god, based primarily on the same tire track evidence.
But they had they said it had been quote enhanced
by the FBI, so somehow like looking at the tire

(41:25):
treats closer where they were able to match it to
the tire this time. Okay, don't worry about it. And
then after he gets he gets convicted, his ex girlfriend
is never brought to her charges were never brought up
on robbery, so it's like, okay, So the defense said

(41:47):
that the defense's only argument in this trial is that
it was Helen that killed her family and then later
dated into a swamp and committed suicide. So clearly his defense.
And he didn't have the money to get anybody good
for that second Yeah, that second trial. He had spent
all his money on the first one.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
He had, like the lawyer with the flask in his pocket. Yeah,
I'm gonna think.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
It's some good day, honor your arm, Honnor, Can I
talk to you privately, secret really quick? Sybar the drunk lawyer.
Everybody the drunk lawyer. Uh. So he's found guilty. He
receives a thirty one year sentence. Yeah, and he is

(42:31):
scheduled to be released in February of twenty twenty. So
he's just been serving. I mean, like.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
That's just like that's it for he got served the
fuck And so he was like twenty seven when that.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Well, yeah, so he was twenty one when the murders
took place. Yeah, horrifying and like the whole like all
the rumors like that, there's all these people who are
like everyone knows it wasn't this. Everyone knows. It's like
either in town like the cops were corrupt, or that
everyone knows it was these drug dealers, and it was
more than one person every which sounds like if you're
going to kill four people or five people, yeah, you're

(43:06):
gonna fucking it's got to be more than one person.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
One would think, yes, because you really hard to just
walk through and kill everybody alsay, and farms like that.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
They all have guns.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
They have shotguns in the very common Yes, that's like
it's a necessary tool on a big old ranch.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Well, it just makes sense that there's one person who's
you know, keeping everyone where they are with one gun
and the other person shooting them. Yeah, I mean, or
like two people what at least at these two people.
I mean, that's that's the theory that I think makes sense.
But who knows. Okay, So that's what's going on with
the s guy Chris Jacobs. And it turns out looking
back into the Kunz's family and this tragic fucking thing

(43:44):
that happened to them, and it's like, no matter how
insane and incestuously were, they didn't deserve to be fucking
killed execution style, you know, in their own home and
not have anyone really ever get brought to justice for
it. It sucks. And it turns out that this isn't the
first time that there's a murder tragedy in the fucking
Kunz's family. So let's go way back to nineteen oh
five when these siblings, these five siblings, their parents are living.

(44:08):
The parents are named Ignots and Anna, and they live
with Ignatz's mother Mary in her home in Manitowic, Wisconsin. Okay,
and that's murder, that's right. So Anna, the wife comes
home one day and finds her mother in law, her
husband's mother, fucking dead in her bed. She had been

(44:29):
bludgeoned to death by her by her husband's brother, whoa.
So that the son, that son is sent to live,
who also lives in the home with the family that
son's live, sent to a fucking insane asylum where he
lives out his days alongside his other another brother, who
had already fucking been institutionalized before the murder of his

(44:51):
mother occurred. So those two brothers are hanging out in
this fucking institution. One of the brothers have bludgeoned his
mother to death, whoa so ignots and Anna A like, shit, man,
this sucks. They move to Marathon County, which is where
I think where Athens is. He works for a logging company.
They have these children. They're raised in an eighteen by
twenty crudely built log cabin. They're poor as fuck. They

(45:12):
don't go to school. They only have each other to
rely on, and they stay that way, living together in
a farmhouse until the until nineteen eighty seven when they're
all killed together. Whoa, And that's the fucking creepy, weird
small town murder story of the Koons family. I know. Now,
let's all go track down the X files home, so

(45:35):
then watch it. If someone has it, please send it
to us on DVD or some shit. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
I'll tell you that just the one scene I remember
from that. There are things that scuttle on the ground
under from like under a bed to under address.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
People say it's very Texas chanceaw massacreing, which is another
one of those this like they say, it's similar to
this story too. It's just like this weird family of
people who might be inbred and it's all creepy. They
live together and there's no reason to not have electricity
and running water, there's no real especially twenty grand in cash. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
No, it's there's something about that that's very like something's happening,
the dynamic in that family's happening where it's like they
refuse to.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Go to be like we're too poor for running water.
It's like, great, that sucked, we totally got it. But
like you have fucking cash hidden around it round you
don't have a toilet.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Do you think they forgot about the money because there
was so much porn. They would just get distracted every time.
They'd be like, we can get up a bit. Oh no,
look at this man, look at this filthy thing.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, or like we don't want the electrician to come
out here because he'll yell our porn.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
There's nowhere to put the porn. Yeah, we can't move
the porn to put in pipes.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
The hoarding situation alone is like you can't expect normal
shit from people who are hoarders.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
It's like it sounds like untreated mental illness. Was the
was this song this family like to sing from way
back in the day.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
And so it's almost like the stigma of it where
it's like keep it all in, don't let anybody see.
And that's how terrible weird, you know, house holds full
of no lights and no running waters start happenings, right, Oh,
it's so crazy. Living room and that's it. And here's

(47:14):
here's young Georgia and young Karen driving in a car and.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
We are out of gas. I guess we have to
walk over to that farmhouse over there. We were on
our way to the parade. Whoops, we ran out of gas.
We were going to be in the big show, but
now we ran out of gas. Walk over there, and
then it was going to get crowned. Fucking fucking cheese
factory princes, factory prince. I was finally going to make
it happen.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Right, that was horrifying. Thank you, good job. Thanks. I mean,
that's what we.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Do, that's what we like, that's what we've decided to do.
It's like and it's hard to not think of now.
I will think of that story every time I drive
by any house that's just off the road that looks
like they might not have lights.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Right, this is my murder.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
As I was finishing it up before I came over here,
I started thinking about a time in your old apartment
where I was like, has Georgia done this one? Because
I start the details started coming together. But I don't
think it is.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
We've just talked about it. Maybe. No.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
I think there's so many stories like this, yeah, that
it's very similar.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Yeah, but you please red flag me the second you
think it's done. I'm not going to because then and
then what when the episode's over? No, then we just
talk about other stuff.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah, I don't think it is though it's just another
one of these stories.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
Who will know if I'll even remember.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
I mean, let's just see it. Let's see's true. This
is the murder of Joan Dawley daw l e.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Y, let's start, Okay. It happens in Silmar, California, nineteen
ninety one. I don't think I did this one, okay.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Because it's Silmar is in the northern part of the
San Fernando Valley, so it's near where we are right now.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
I've never thought about Selmar in my life, so I
don't think I've done this murmur Okay, good, I'll just
keep on checking in with you the entire time. Okay, great,
all right.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
So it's Easter season nineteen ninety one, and fifty five
year old wife and mother, Joan Dolly. She's working part
time at the Crown.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Hallmark store in Silmar, California. When there were Hallmark stores,
I go love to Hallmarks any whatever the occasion. They'd
have a card chachkes galore. I mean they had like
Hummel type figures they had. It was like a glass pet,
like little glass animals, yeah, that were mounted on a
little card. I loved those.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
I like calling them gifts for people you don't know
that well, or gifts for grandma gives her grandma. Do
you think grandma would like this bell made out of china.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
It's the thing where one time you said you like penguins,
and now every fucking gifts you get from your kids
is a penguin. And I'm saying that because my fucking
own mother gets a fucking penguin. Yeah, from us.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
That's like my mom who she said she liked chickens.
Oh yeah that and four years later she opened up
like a chicken cookie thing.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
She was like, if I see one more fucking chicken,
I'm gonna kill somebody. Well, it makes it easier. My
mom is penguins, my grandma is monkey's, my sister's black cats.
I'm Siamese cats. Yeah, cook stop.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
My friend Patty Riley in high school, at some point
in grammar school told somebody she liked frogs.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
It was she ever got it makes life easier? Yeah,
it really does me. I like money, okay, so my
favorite animal is a gift card. Oh. I like to
pet them and spend them, love them. Okay.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
So she's working at the Crown Hallmark dustin those china bells.
Get it, get after it, and she lives in that
town with her husband of thirty two years, Dennis Dolly,
okay Dennis. Because it's Easter season, Dennis is a volunteered
to come down to the Hallmark store and dress up
as the Easter Bunny so kids can come in and

(50:56):
take pictures.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
That's so sweet, isn't that nice? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:00):
And Jones coworkers describe Dennis as the kind of guy
who do anything for a laugh. It seemed like they
had the perfect marriage. And of course anytime they say that,
oh sorry this from I got this from a Wikipedia page.
But also of course the show Deadly Women on the
I D two.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Fun, I mean not fun, but but yeah, you know. Also,
oh wait, well now we know what it's gonna happen.
He didn't kill her.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Well you'll see, because anytime on a true crime show,
if they say they seem like the perfect ruple, you know,
some fucked up shit is about to start her because
no one's the perfect couple.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Thank god. Vin's and I don't seem like the perfect couple.
We kind of do about.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Ow you do once tallm on short and you really
seem to like each other. That's all that it matters,
so we know fucked up shit is happening when Stephen
and I leave this apartment. That's right, he's putting crackers
so high up you can't get him.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
I can't reach the chicken in a biscuit. Give me
that club cracker, you son of a bitch. Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
So Dennis has been retired for fifteen years and he
decides he's going to get a part time job at
the local golf course to supplement his pension because he's
good at golf, although his real passion is fishing.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
He likes to go on lots of fishing trips. He
dreams of owning his on fishing boat. You can't get
a job at the fishing course. No, you sure can't.
No one will hire you to fish. Why don't they
do that? They just don't need it? Okay, it's not
got it? Not like Angelie. Point feasible is not the point,
not the point of fishing points of golfing.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
So he always goes on these fishing trips by himself,
which is fine with Joan because.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
She hates the water, and so you're because she hates him,
and Lovely Leaves is fucking the house.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Okay, After thirty two years of marriage. I'm sure she's like,
sounds great. It's around this same time, nineteen ninety one.
Joan inherits seventy grand from her mother who died seventy grand.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
And a house. Damn yes, And Dennis tells Joan should
put the house in the deed of that house in
my name.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Because he wants to sell it. He wants to go
sell it and then they can take that money and
spend it. He wants a fishing boat. He's got a
bunch of plans. But Joan says no. She keeps telling
him she's keeping all that money and the deed the
house as a nest egg quote unquote in case something happens.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Nothing, nothing worth seventy thousand dollars happens.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Right, like something over net. Yeah, I mean, what is
she planning? Well, here's here's what it is. Okay, she
finally confides to her friend who also owns the Hallmark store. Okay,
she keeps it real tight, not Hallmark store.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Is it a franchise. It is that woman's franchise. Good
for her, she has a small business. I'm happy for
her and a good friend to Joan. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
So Joan confides in her and is like, I think
Dennis is having an affair, and so that's why she's like, I'm.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Not giving him any money.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
He's spending money like crazy lately when he goes on
these quote unquote fish tips, but she doesn't know on.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
What fish and cheap trips should be cheap. Everyone knows
that what do you need? Worms? Worms? You need? You
eat food out of a can? Yeah you got you
got your hope on your bill. I don't know why.
And suddenly he's a hobo.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
He jumps the train to get to the pond, He
jumps train to get back there.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
No, you eat the fish. Oh that's what you eat.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yeah, that's right. You don't need food, You don't need
anything in a can. No savior eighty nine cents. So
she is suspicious. Okay, So basically she's preparing to get
a divorce.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Oh shit. And Dennis, when she.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Won't give him any money or let him play or
really do anything, he's starting to suspect that she might
want to get a divorce and if that happens, she
will get half his pension, and that means he will
be financially ruined.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
So don't fuck around then, kid, right, So let's go
back to the early years.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Joan and Dennis Dolly were childhood sweethearts. They got married
in nineteen fifty six. He was in the Air Force
at the time. He was a missile technician.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Shit, you gotta be smart as fuck, right, he knows
his shit. I mean one would hope. You gotta hope.
I mean if you tinkering around with people pretty smart,
you don't just put any old.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
It's a guy that keeps turning the instructions over and over.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Does this blueprint say it's just ikea instructions with that
little dude.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
It's a guy next to a missile oh, scratching his head.
They get shipped to London fun right after they get married.
Joan loves it. She loves the idea that she gets
to be this military wife that travels the world with
her missile technician husband. While overseas, she gives birth to
their first daughter, Debbie, and.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Baby named Deborah. There we go right.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Five years later, in nineteen sixty one, they moved back
to the US. Joan has another baby, girl named Laurie.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
They have there.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
There's lots of family home movies where Dennis is playing
the devoted father dressing is Santa every year at Christmas,
and of course is the Easter Bunny every year at Easter.
Nineteen sixty eight, the Dollies have transferred once again to
the military base in Lompoc, California, which is north of here.
The girls are twelve and seven, and by all appearances

(56:20):
they're the perfect American military family. It's the height of
the Cold War, though, so Dennis keeps having to leave
on missions and not explaining where he's going, and Joan
by this point, is tired of moving all the time.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
They've moved a ton of times.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
She hates uprooting the family every time, and as the
girls get older, they don't like it either, so it's
all becoming a little problematic. Nineteen seventy four, the family
stationed in Omaha, Nebraska. Debbie graduates college. A year later,
Dennis retires from the Air Force and the whole family
moves back to California and they settle down in soilmar
in the northern San Fernando Valley.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Is that like super suburby cute? You know, it's super
not that nice little bit a little bit, I mean,
like I'm sure it's fine in general, but there's a
little crime up there. Okay, it's not. It's a.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
It's not the regular San Fernando Valley yet we know
of like Encino or whatever.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
It's a little fill yes, which exact crime happening? It
gets it gets a little risky out there. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
So just a few weeks after Easter, on April seventeenth,
nineteen ninety one, Joan doesn't show up for work at
the Hallmark store, and it's very unlike her. She doesn't call,
she just doesn't show. And her good friend and the owner,
that woman's name is Marilyn Rush. She knows how weird
this is for Joan, so she immediately drives over to
Joan's house. She lets herself into the house with the

(57:44):
extra key that she knows where it's hidden. And the
whole house is in a shambles. There's been there's clearly
been a robbery. She walks into the master bedroom and
she finds Joan bludgeoned to death in her bed.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Oh no, I was hoping she'd be a deadly woman.
She's not a deadly woman.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
So she's been murdered. So she's been severely beaten around
the head. She has a broken finger and she has
other defensive wounds on her arms and hands. The forensics team, luckily,
so it's nineteen ninety one. The forensics team scrapes the
because they see that there's tissue.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Underneath his fingernacke. Yeah, she thought.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
So they scrape it and they save it, and they
know that DNA is now a possibility.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
But it's the very early stages.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Yeah, Paul Holes is just a baby. That's little Paul
Holes with the This is when he had puffy cheek,
puffy baby cheeks. But he was he was into forensics.
He was the Yeah, okay, that's how he started. So
Paul Holes isn't even part of this story anyway. He's
across the bay north, he's north and west.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
So the police determined that the point of entry was
a break in in the back of the house, so
they just put it together. It's with all the uh
don't say ramshackled lists, with all the rummagingly gone on.
It's a break in, ransackingshackled. No, that's not my story,
that's from your I'm borrowing from their story and putting

(59:07):
it into my story.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
I mean it sounds like Golden State killer style, right,
that's right. The bludgeoning. Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
When the family finds out, Dennis and his daughters are distraught. Obviously,
they're total disbelief that they're that Joan is gone. And
at such a young age, Dennis can barely function fifty six,
fifty five or fifty six, so yeah, you know, like
living this kind of like retire e lefeh, like finally
trying to put it together. Sure, Dennis can barely function,

(59:42):
and he tells his daughters he can't stay in the
house obviously that's where his wife is murdered, and that
he just needs to go away on a fishing trip.
His daughter, Debbie, doesn't think it's a good idea for
him to be alone, so she says, if you want
to go, I'll go with you, and he says, no,
I really need to be by myself.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
I just I have to be by myself, and so
he goes on his trip. We don't trust him now, No,
the police don't trust him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Even when they talk to Dennis, they feel like he's
giving no, absolutely no signs that he is even.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Upset that his wife has been bludged to death in
her bed. They're getting real weird vibes. That's a police thing.
We know that sometimes people don't act like they're in greed,
but you can tell vibes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Yes, I mean I think that's the thing too, is that,
like so much police work is like are you a
sensitive investigator that's feeling vibes or are you a police
monster right who?

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Like you're not crying, your brain's out, Yes, you don't
care and you know I am now going to find
the evidence to put you in jail no matter what.
I guess it's probably the thing of like we know
no one reacts the same, but you can be like,
this person is clearly in shock right now. Not this
person isn't crying because they killed someone. It's like this
person in a week is going to fucking lose their
shit or like in a month whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
I can tell by the their pupils that they're in
shock or whatever. It's like with all these things are
in you know, like it's context. It's just what is
the actual situation here?

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
And they all were like this guy doesn't feel right, yeah,
and then they find out their hunch is right, because
it turns out Dennis did not go on a fishing
trip to grieve the sudden loss of his wife of
thirty years because he's caught on casino surveillance tape in
Las Vegas fishing days.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
He's just in a canoe fishing in the middle of
Binion's casino, pulled Binya back in Binion's back, Banion's back, baby,
he goes casino instead, he was gambling at a table
with an unknown woman, laughing it up and having the
time of his life on casino surveillance foot it. Stupid, idiot,
you fucking Dipshitred. I mean, listen, I hate you. You're

(01:01:53):
a killer. Go to prison forever, But like, what are
you so stupid?

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
People are really they're really stupid, but this guy's especially stupid. Yeah,
because also there are a lot of places you could
go that don't have Going to a casino in Las
Vegas is like I want to be on film.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
It's also like you got to assume maybe you're being tailed.
They don't know who the murderer is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Yeah, like the first person that cops always looks the husband.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
There's gonna be one like rookie who like gets sent
to follow you that day, right you know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Also, this was two days after the funeral that he
went to Vegas. Like you can't hold for two weeks. Yeah,
you can't just let the feelings die down. A hint
like maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Like help your daughters grieve their mother's fucking die guess
not monster.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
So the woman that he's with gets identified and her
name is Brandita Taliano.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
That's not a real name. That is Brandita's real name.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
She is a sex worker from the San Fernando San
Fernando Valley, which the idea of that makes me laugh
because to me, the San Fernando Valley is a series
of strip malls.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Yeah, and Starbucks. Yeah, so in a courthouse or two, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
So there's somewhere, there's there's a there's a trip that
some sex workers like to walk.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Well, I guess that happens everywhere. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
So Dennis had been spending a lot of time with
Brandy to they call her Brandy, and lots of money
on her.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
And that's jan He wasn't fucking around like he wasn't
didn't meet some chick at the Hallmark on the other
side of town and start dating her.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
No, he he started paying for sex with Brandy. So
when Joan suspected that her husband was having an affair,
she was right. But what she didn't know was that
he was having an affair with the sex worker that
he was sleeping with, and he also began to pay
her rent.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
He bought her a car. He basically became her sugar deck.
How did he have this money? Like, oh my god,
well he had his pension, yeah, and separate. He thought
he was going to have money. Is Jon's inherent and shit.
And when Joan was like, you aren't getting any of
this money, he realized that this lifestyle he was kind

(01:04:09):
of secretly living, this other life, was going to get
cut off, and that if Joan divorced him and he
lost all that money, that Brandy would never see him again. Yeah,
because that's not how it works. That love would dry
up right quick.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
So in the winter of nineteen ninety three, Brandy is
arrested on a drug charge and when they search her,
they find Joan.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Dolly's jewelry in the bottom of her purse.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
So this gives There's a detective that's that was the
first on the scene and his name is Detective Tippin'.
I want to say Dave Tippin, but that's just me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
I don't think it is, is it Dave Tippin? I
bet it's Dave. Hold please hold hold for Dave, check
hold for day. We do. We are thorough. Now, we
don't call people tipping unless we do a thorough check.
That's right, because because I ain't tipping out, because that
is cat tip. Here's a quick tip. Don't just call

(01:05:07):
people Dave. Seems like I didn't write anything down about
Dave Tippins. Hold on, mister Tippin. God, damn it, Tippin'
call me mister Tippin'. Yeah, that's what he always says.
So Steven's got it. Steven's got it. Paul Tippin', okay,
Paul tips So then you get the last name. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
So Detective Paul Tippin realizes when he when this jewelry
is matched to Joan Dolly's jewelry, He's like, here's what
we're going to do. This is this is going to
get me the warrant so that I can take her
DNA and test it against the fingernail scrapings that I
kept from under Joan Dolly's fingernail.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Woman. Oh oh, I actually did this one, did you know? No?
I did?

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
He So he sends Brandy's DNA.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
I did not think that twist was coming, even though
it's called Deadly Women the TV show, right, I thought
that one woman.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Was dead and that was your only choice. It's the
early nineties. It takes one year now the results to
come back on this DNA Danna get your shit together, guys,
you don't even understand how important you are. But in
the meantime, Detective Tippin, Detective Paul Tippin starts looking into
Brandon Taliano's life. So he's not surprised to find and

(01:06:34):
I'm sure the other policemen that worked with him, maybe
he didn't do all this work. Sure, but they find
that she's been in and out of jail for the
past ten years for drug charges.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
She's a heroin addict, so.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
A lot of the stuff she's doing is purely just
to get drugs. What does surprise them is they find
that while she has been in jail in the more recently,
Dennis Dolly has visited her in jail fourteen times.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
This guy has no jail.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
He's really not smart when it comes to like basically
thinking any of this shit through.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
He's like, okay, hearing me out. If he goes to
visit her in jail all the time, and just to
fucking see her because he's like in love with her, yes,
because like he's not having sex with her in jail. No,
they can't have sex in them in jail. You would
be surprised that they are not allowed to have sex
in jail. So he's visiting her because he fucking misses
her and is in love with her. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
And also second only to a Las Vegas casino, where
is the one other place you're going to get recorded
and filed and taped on security cameras more than in
fucking jail.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Great point.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
So they're having conversations about things that are being recorded.
He is apparently smugging, smuggling heroin into her and keeping
her commissary accounts filled with money so that she gets
what she needs in jail.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
I got to get that top ramen. I need that
one color of lipstick, the only one that's available and
wild I need that. It's the nineties, so I need
my brownlipliner. I don't need lipstick. I just need my
brown lip lines, brown liplighter, and then maybe a light
white gloss.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
So basically immediately they're like, oh, holy shit, we've got
the husband connected here and in one of these conversations,
he tells Brandy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
That he needs her help.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
He needs her to find him someone that can take
care of what he calls a big job.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
And so this is before the murder. This is before okay,
So Brandy introduces him. I bet I know what that
big job is. That it's not fishing. It's not fishing,
or what was his job? Explosives. I don't know what
he did?

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
The missile He was a missile technician, right, So Brandy
introduces him to a career criminal named Gary Ware and
Gary's fell in associate who it will not be named
for privaciesons.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
I have it, sure, they just don't have it. I
thought fellon associate would be a good standard.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
So I guess Dennis brings them back to their his
house when Jon's at work.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
This guy sucks so bad, he really sucks shit.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
And he tells these two fucking felons that he wants
them to kill his wife.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
And he says he doesn't care what they do to
him due to her.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
In the while they do that, he says, you can
rape her if you want to, as long as she
ends up dead.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
Yeah, his childhood sweetheart, the mother of his two daughters,
his fucking lifelong wife, not lifelong you know up until
this long what a monster. In fact, one of his
nicknames later on is American monster. Oh God.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
So they make this plan that these two guys, uh
Gary Ware and the associate and associate are going and
associate are going to kill Joan. But even after where
is arrested on an unrelated charge. So the plan falls apart.
And the problem with career criminals is you just can't
rely on you. You can't because they're so ambitious in their

(01:10:11):
career of criminality. So Dennis knows that Joan at this point,
he's like, she's going to divorce me, and if.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
The divorce happens, I will lose half of I will lose.
She needs to die before she files for divorce, exactly right,
So he's in a big rush.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Luckily for him, that's right when Brandy finally gets out
of jail and he says to Brandy, you have to
help me kill her. So on the night of April sixteenth,
nineteen ninety one, while Joan Dolly is asleep in the
master bedroom, Dennis Dolly lets Brandy Tolliano in the back
door of the house where they where the cops thought
it was a break in. They sneak into the master

(01:10:46):
bedroom together. Dennis is carrying a golf club and he
begins beating Joan with him. Joan wakes up, tries to
fight him off, and that's when Brandy starts to hold
her down so that Dennis can beat.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
Her to death with his golf club.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
And when she struggles, that's when she gets Brandy's skin
underneath her finger.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
Nail, my god, and then.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
They go once she's Once Joan is dead in bed,
they go around the house and try to make it
look like a robbery gone wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
But as we know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
Then, that's around the time that the cops find the
Las Vegas footage of him two days after his wife's
funeral in Lave with Brandy at the fucking Crabs table,
living his best life. They had actually taken Joanes money,
gone to Las Vegas, they had shopped, they had gambled.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
It's all on security cameras.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
They took home movie footage of like they went on
all these trips together. Dennis Dolly was so stupid he
claimed Brandy as a dependent on his taxes what he
bought new cars and put the titles in her name
and her name was also on the deed when he
bought a vacation home in Big Bear. What the fucking
fought So he basically went out of his way to

(01:12:04):
tie her to him.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Yeah, I mean, God, as awful as the sounds, it's like,
I'm glad that it wasn't like the rape part to
me is so horrific. The whole thing is awful, but like,
you know, thank god that one guy went to fucking prison.
It's the whole thing sucks, but like wow, yes, and

(01:12:26):
like Cole no thought of like the girls are going
to find out how their mother died, what happened to them? Yes,
And he's like, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
Care what you do, because well that's what narcissism is,
And that's like this kind of extreme you know, whatever
he was is an extreme narcissist or a psychopath. Yeah,
where they don't think about they don't care about other people.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
And I get him. They don't care about it. It's
like about his wife, but like, I don't get it.
But like his daughters, he must have loved them and
not wanted them to.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Maybe maybe, but clearly he was He may have been
on drugs too, but he was obsessed with Brandy, and
he was like inter in keeping her around more than
any or just what he was interested in. Really, I
think ultimately was just getting what.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
He wanted all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
So he killed, He bludgeons his wife to death so
he can buy himself a boat, a jacuzzi, a waterbed
in a gazebo.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
At the end of the day, it's like the more
than a trifecta Takias ship. Yeah, it's taky as hell.
I mean that gazebo.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
So so a year later, the DNA test comes back.
The the evidence under Jones fingers nail fingernails is a
match to Brandy Ataliano's DNA.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
When Detective Tippin puts.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
All of this evidence together, he basically has an open
and shutcase. And then at the trial it's a three
month trial in nineteen ninety seven, and they bring Gary Ware,
the guy who Dennis Dolly tried to make a deal
with associate he with, the mysterious associate. Gary Ware has

(01:14:00):
testimony where he tells them that that Dennis Dolly said
and you can rape her if you want to, and
that's like that's when it was like.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
Over and done. Criminal makes good.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
Yeah, And also the daughters testified against him too, so
both Dennis Dolly and Brandy Taliano were found guilty of
first degree murder.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
And sentenced to life in prison. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
Dennis Dolly got life in prison without the positibility of parole,
and he died in prison in two thousand and three,
and Brandy Taliano, also sentenced to life in prison, is
still in prison today, although there's a rumor that she
is being considered for parole.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
No, and that's the murder of Joan Dolly. Holy shit,
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, a twisty turney mind fuck.
It's also just another one of these bummers.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
These ones come up a lot, and you know, people
recommend murders to us a lot. I get so bummed
out because there's just so many fucking husbands that just
kill their wives for money.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
We don't do a lot of them because it seems
like it's so simple, and like this one clearly is not,
which makes it fucking fascinating. But yeah, it's just like
there are so many and it's just sad and shitty
and awful, and like you're saying, it's baffling that they
don't think past what they're doing to go, You're going

(01:15:23):
to get caught. Modern technology is going to get you caught.
So you're a monster, just like break up, Like you're
a monster. You're a monster.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
And if I feel like it's that thing of if
you're starting to have an affair that you're then obsessed
with this person, Like yes, the divorce is like I'm
going to his mentality is like fuck her because she's
gonna ruin me because I'm gonna lose half my pension
in the divorce. It's like, yes, but this is the
woman who raised your children, who moved to every single

(01:15:55):
city that you had to move to.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
You don't deserve the money career. She doesn't. It's like right,
it's this.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
It's the intense narcissism and selfishness. It's just so crazy.
And also they were in their fifties. It's not like
you couldn't have gotten another job or like I made
some kind of adjustment. It was just like I got
to keep my money, I got to keep my girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Totally psycho, so psycho shit. That was a good one.
Such a bummer. Yeah, oh I'm glad.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
I'm glad it wasn't the one you did, because I
remember you doing one and it was something. But I
think yours was about a lawyer who killed his wife.
Do you remember that one?

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
Tell me more?

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
But it was like, I honestly think it's like within
the first three to six months of us doing this show,
it was really early. I just remember being in your
old apartment and listening to you tell me about it,
and that's I started getting these pictures at the end
of like finishing the story up, and I was starting
getting these pictures and I was like, God, damn.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
It if I did that. Oh, but you're good. It
doesn't seem like it doesn't seem like I guarantee you
I didn't do that one. Okay, shit, great job, Thank
you you too. Fucking horah. Oh, how how is your
yoga challenge? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
I've failed my yoga challenge this week, although I will
say I did a lot of meditation.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
Oh good for you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
Yeah, Because I feel like we're there's some stressful things
going on right now.

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
We're about to start our fall tour. You started in
the right before we start our fall tour. You started
a new writing job at basket or went back to Baskets. Yes,
so you're just like, you know what I want to do.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
Double Down, Double triple Down, as well as and we're
simultaneously working on our network and so podcast network. I
wake up at five thirty in the morning and then
answer emails, drink coffee and answer emails like a lunatic,
and then I'm like worked up alone in my house
and then I'm like.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Okay, GE's go to work. Yeah exactly. So I've been
doing really nice. It's just ten minutes. But it's just
that thing of like I get upset because I think
all these things are happening at once and they're hot.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
I have these reactions where it's just like I just
need to come back to reality and to real life
and just be like, we're in the present, everything's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:18:08):
Everything feels like a ca cofphony. And then you need
to realize that they're not.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Yes, and that we're like the luckiest people in the
world having the best time, and we're doing pretty fucking good.
We're doing good at all of it. It's difficult to
keep that in mind. Now it's just like whatever, so
so that I would say my fucking horry for this week.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
Also in the room, my.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Friend Teresa, who works at Baskets with me, also has
planter fasty itash. So we get up three times a
day and just start stretching. What a great thing to
have a buddy yees work with. Yes, who gets it.
And she's like done all the research. So we do
lots of stretching.

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
During your day, like fucking weirdos.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
That's I mean, it doesn't count as a full class,
but I feel like my two part thing of trying
to like it's just that thing of when I'm by myself,
my mind goes fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Of course, especially when you pour coffee all over it. Yeah,
which I understand. Yeah me too. I didn't I have
a caveat yoga. I didn't go to a yoga class. Howmever,
I started working with this girl names woman named Sarah Olive.
She's a personal trainer a while back after a friend

(01:19:18):
recommended her. I just can't work out on my own.
She is the most lovely person ever, and I stopped.
I did the thing where I just stopped doing it
and never emailed her again. Yeah, and she'd be like,
hey check it in, Hey check it in, even though
like she wasn't trying to get money, Like I had
classes that I had already paid her for and she
was like we should do this, and then I posted
some like obviously depressing thing on Instagram a couple months back,

(01:19:42):
and she was like, I'm coming over and we're going
to go for a walk today, like straight up like
didn't need to be there, and was there. And so
since then, every week we've been hanging out and like
hiking and shit together. And so she didn't listen to
the podcast before when I was working out with her,
but she does now, and so every time we go
to hike or do something, she's like, I asked me
questions from this and she's really fucking sweet and lovely,

(01:20:03):
and so this time around she was we went for
a hike and then she was like, Okay, we're gonna
do five minutes yoga so you can say that you
did yoga, nice because I know you didn't go to yoga.
She's a mastermind, she's great. Her uh her instagram is
this underscore fit underscore mom, this fit mom. She's got
like two adorable kids. So she did that for me,

(01:20:24):
and it was really like she's just I'm gonna cry
talking about her. So it's she's lovely. That's like that's
my yoga and my fucking hoay that's great. Is that,
like she's really gotten me. And it's true, like depression
is so much better when I'm like working out and
doing things and I'm sore and I'm happy, and it's
much better. Yeah, we can.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
We can generate our own dopamine if we actually just
do it and fight fight those bad feelings.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
I say, as i've the stretching.

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
I described is the only movement I've done. But but
I like, here's the thing. I'm not giving up on
this yoga challenge because I like that something's hanging over
my head and it makes me think about it every
week and it makes me go, Okay, if you're not
going to do it, what are you going to do
or do something?

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
Well, yeah, we'll keep it. We'll keep it going. And
I think since we're about to leave for the Fall tour,
which is this really stressful thing of its weekends, but
it's like we have to be in a different city
every day and we have to leave the day early,
come back a day. But you know, it's a lot
of hotel rooms, a lot of eating like shit, and
so it's a good thing to have in our head
as we start this process. I think of, like, just

(01:21:30):
do something. I mean, you can you better not say
anything to me about it. Oh, I'm not going to talk.
I'm not going to call your hotel room. Let's do yoga.
Oh my god, did you order broccoli Bobby yoga? No?

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
But you know what's really funny is the uh, We've
tried to be good on the road. It's not impossible,
but it's just that thing of when you come back,
like to your hotel room at night, you're just like, well,
the late night menu.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
You're like, I'm not going to eat a solid at
eleven o'clock at night. And I also want to know, like,
what is the this. I love regional food so fucking
much that it makes me crazy, Like that is my
all time favorite thing. So I want to know what
your fucking weird thing is. And I guarantee you it's
not fucking steeing broccoli is not your regional fucking food.

Speaker 2 (01:22:12):
It's not fun Like, Yeah, the best times we have
is like when we go to a place and then
it's like, oh my god, look at this place around
the corner.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
It always like looks up a restaurant. It's like, we
have to try this thing. There's a good thing there.
We're starting in the Carolinas. You know how much I
love barbecue, one of my favorite things in the fucking world. Yeah,
so it's gonna get ugly this weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:22:32):
It's gonna you know, we're just gonna stay. What we're
gonna do is stay in the moment.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
M huh. We're gonna be stay conscious. Yeah, and then
if macaroni and cheese happens, it happens. Yeah, and it's
gonna happen, and it's gonna happen. That's right. So we'll
see you guys this weekend. Who's coming out And thank
you guys for listening. And you know you guys are
the best. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis.

(01:22:55):
Do you want to cookie?

Speaker 2 (01:22:57):
Cookie,