143 - DeSabotage

Karen and Georgia cover the truth behind poisoned Halloween candy and the murder of Carol Stuart.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, Hello, and welcome. This is my favorite murder. It's
a true crime comedy podcast that we do for you
bi weekly. Weekly it's weekly. Oh well, then the other one, right,
twice a week.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, so twice a week. But this is the long
form version.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
This is the real one. The other one's fake, fake,
it's more of a holdover. Yeah, but this is the
real deal, right. And that's Karen Kilgara, and that's Georgia
Hart start, and that's who we are. Stephen Ray Morris
is holding down the ones and twos.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Stephen's there, Elvis is on my lap. All is right
with the World's right. You have your nice mug of tea.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
I'm literally drinking some what Georgia described as lemon balm.
So I hope there's a little bit of melted lip palm. Then,
I hope that's what you gave me as a gift,
my gift to you. Uh oh, can I tell you?

Speaker 3 (01:10):
So?

Speaker 1 (01:11):
You know these dumb tea bags with their dumb tea things.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
And they're dumb quotes and shit. Yeah, this one just says,
be curious.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Fuck you, We're curious about what the fuck lemon BALMDB
tea is.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Also, I'm going to Yeah, don't fucking tell me, because
if they think that you're just like this boring person
in the lid of your life and then you need
Tea to come tell you how to live your fucking life. Listen,
lemon Balm, you don't know me. Y'all know my family,
Stay out of it. You don't know my level of curiosity.
I'm up your ass. I've already googled you, right, Lemon Balm.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
What your name is? Jonathan Vaness? And you have a
podcast about being curious already? And Jonathan VanNess is like,
I need to do more.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
For you Tea.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, He's like, oh, I guess I should cancel my
podcast because I'm not curious enough according to Tea. Sorry,
lemon Bom, Jesus Tea, what more do you want from
our get out of our face?

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Hey, speaking of fall things and all the fall live
living your life Tea things. Yeah, we'd like to give
a shout out to Circleville, Ohio and their Circleville Pumpkin Show,
which is really a festival.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
So I don't know why they call it a show.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
I mean, I feel like that's part of the part
of the charm of this Circleville Pumpkin Show is that
they think they're a show and it you can go.
It's October seventeenth to the twentieth in Circleville.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
We're not going, but you should fucking hope we would go.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
I would love a lot of people have tweeted and said,
are you guys going to make a surprise about wish?
And I truly would do. I would love nothing more.
But we have to go up to the Pacific Northwest
this week, so we can't.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
That'll be great. That'll be balmy in lemony too.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, there's gonna be tons of lemon balm tea up there.
But please, if you're anywhere near Circleville, Ohio, which mean Columbus,
it's Columbus. That's where it came out of our live
columb the show from last year, The Circle Bill Pumpkin Murders.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
No, the Circle Bill letter the letter writer, the Diarius
letter writer then did for drunk History, Oh right, two yeah,
but I forgot while you were telling the story.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
That's how drunk I was.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
You would have recovered drunk memory, which is the best everyone.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
To know if the show is real, if people really
get drunk on it, just know I couldn't remember that
I had done that.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
I had to remember the story until you were like,
this is on a second.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Having filiar memories of this.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
And just in case you were in if you're a
pageant person, you can run for Circleville Miss Pumpkin, right, Stephen,
is it Miss Pumpkin?

Speaker 4 (03:40):
Yeah, I believe it's Miss Pumpkin. And then there's little
Miss Pumpkins.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I'm gonna run for a little Miss Pumpkins.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
There's two ways to be beautiful at the Circleville Pumpkin Show.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Get over there, see what you how you rate?

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Where a murdering so you can identify other murderingo people.
You guys can all gather eat. I hope there's friede
pumpkin there because that's absolutely my favorite food in the world.
Anything pumpkin, anything with pumpkin, and I want to eat
and I don't eat pumpkin spice, fu pumpkin spice. Okay,
I want when I get Tempora and that fucking piece
of pumpkin is in.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Their frid Oh yeah, yeah, I'm going out of my mind.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
I see that it is very delicious. I agree what
stevens saying.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
Oh there's a pet parade.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Oh my god. On Friday, next level. Holy shit, pets
will be there in their costumes. There's no reason not
to go. Why will Pumpkin show Elvis. I'm dressing you
up in solidarity and sending you out in a fed
x box. Sorry, buddy, you're gonna appear as a fed
x box at the Circle Pumpkins show again.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Burst like a like a cake, burst out of a
fad xbox, A stripper like the stripper he is. We
have more news to announce. Yeah, more, that's their project.
We have our own projects. Do you want to go first?
Swiming first?

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Well, I guess it's pretty big news. A couple people
have tweeted and asked us this when we announced the book.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
We wrote a book called Stay Sex and Get Murdered.
It's being written as a or like.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
It was a dual memoir we're calling it, which I
think is might be the first of its kind, right,
and we're just here to announce. Now we get to
announce we will be reading our own audiobook.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Of course we will be.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
I mean, who the fuck else is going to do it?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
We suggested Paul Giamati, but.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
He's very busy at billions apparently, so go to Audible
or anywhere that you listen to your audio books and
you can pre order it. Pre order that shit and
then get ready for us to read you a book.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
You're going to get so sick of our voices. It's
going to be really embarrassing. Like reading some of that
shit out loud.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
I'm going to love every moment of it. I'm gonna
cherish my own instrument and listen to myself for the
first time ever.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
We should have an alternative Paul Gamati version, just in
case people don't want to listen to us.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
If anyone is Paul Jamonti's agent or represent cousin, a
cousin would be great, Like you could get him at Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Linda Giamatti, Linda nay nay what's her new last name?

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Gilletty, Linda. We would love it if you would hook
us up and have Paul. I think he would actually
nail it.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Get him nice and drunk on vodka and lemon bomb tea. Okay,
really that's a new things.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Make that up absolutely yeah. I mean it's just vodka with.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Lemon bomb d vodka in the hot tea, put.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Some bitters in there.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
That's actually be nice for your throat and broke kind
of bitter as it is, that's true, And get Paul
Giamatti to sign the papers.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
We'll send them to you. Linda, God, this is Linda.
Thanks so much for doing this job with us. We
really appreciate all the work you did.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Right, you'll get a special thank you in the notes, Linda, Mkillicutty.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Giamatti you are our new manager.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
Meredith, you're fired. Sorry. Oh I also also, oh, hey,
don't pass forward yet. This is really exciting. Today, which
is Thursday, which is tomorrow for us. Our new line
of fucking merch is coming out Fall Merch, All Merch
that also includes the much fucking anticipated pet Merch.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Finally we can talk about it.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
So a bunch of new shit's coming out Thursday today
my favorite murder dot com. And then go to the store.
There's a bunch of new quotes like you've seen some
of them at the live shows. What in the fucking
fuck a classic spell it like you say it? Great
fucking hooray uh and then fucking horay is in really
cool kind of disco letters.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
I love.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, it's all really cool spont that we specifically made
people change fourteen times until we were satisfied with it,
because that's how we are a little closer, little closer,
and then very excited to announce our two new special
They're called Classic Eco Jersey jogger pants.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Webpants pants Baby.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
One of them says fuck you.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
I'm married and I could not be more excited to
get these for myself.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Hey, are you a newlywed or an oldly weed?

Speaker 3 (07:56):
Is your friend about to get married and she needs
something to wear on her wedding day getting dressed up
in the photo?

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Do you or do you have a sibling that's just
some it has been married for thirty years and is
totally over it. Well, it sounds like you need to
get these sweatpants.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
So there's two sweat there's sweatpants, and then our fucking
pet line, which is so exciting. We Karen had has
a Oh my god, you guys have to see this.
So it's uh, it's the dog Karen's Dogs.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
I'm coming out with a fiercely private T shirt of
Frank and George. That Chris Fairbanks drew who I do
the other podcast Do You Need a Ride With? And
he's an amazing graphic designer and illustrator, so he drew
a picture of George drinking water out of the glass
like the video that I posted about six months ago
on Twitter. And then a picture of Frank who's basically

(08:43):
I think he's smoking a cigar.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
Looks like a cigar. He's smoking success in beautiful punt.
It's like such a cool punk rock Sure, I love it.
But then hey, if you're not a dog person and
you're a cat person. Our friend Michael Ram said, who
created the really beautiful chalk outline like cartoony.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Drawings of us that we use all the time in the.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Earliest I think drawing of us. Yeah, that he did
for us, and we're like, can we buy that from you?
We love it.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
He's so talented. He didn't Elvis design for us. It's
Elvis want a Cookie And it's fucking cool.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
It's so cute, it's.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Got Elvis on it. I love it.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
And then we also have those are available for pets
for like dogs t shirts. Your dog can wear a
shirt of my dog. And then if your dog is
an asshole hates everyone, there's one that says, here's the thing,
fuck everyone.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
That's a dog shirt. Yes, I don't need to tell you.
There's more.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
There's even more really good stuff for the pet line. Yeah,
good collars, bowls, exactly.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
My favorite Murder dot com go to the store.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
We're very excited to be bringing you merch and there's
more to come, so merch that appeals to you. And
we're very excited to be getting so much beautiful art
and things that you guys create and make about this show.
One of which a person named Callie Lawson, who is
Callie Lawson Art on Instagram, drew a picture of Cody

(09:59):
the Chainsaw Chicken, which was a story that we just
did like this week. The minute came out, Oh yeah,
came out Monday, and I think she immediately drew this
picture and it is hauntingly beautiful, gorgeous. It's a child
on a BMX bike with a chainsaw a slung.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
How you described him that you want him to He's
looking up at a fucking utility pole in the most
you don't even see his face and the way he's
looking at it with like reverence.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
And awe, he's about to do some shit.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
And his like little ears are sticking out because he's
a Oh it's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
Thank you Kelly Lawson so much. It's it's a wonderful
it's a wonderful picture. Yeah, and thank you once again
to Nick Terry, who has made yet another hilarious video
of the wheat woo conversation we had about Georgia not
being able to whistle.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
And what's his Instagram? He started a new instagram of
just the instagram MFM animation, so yeah, can buy them all.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
Oh one place, that's cool MFM underscore animated.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Okay, wow on Instagram. That's so great. Thank you, Nick Cherry.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
He'll be at our Seattle show, so we should give
him a shout out there. Oh very cool. Okay, finally
we'll stop talking speaking about live show.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
We're not going to fucking ever stop talking.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Oh I forgot that. That's our whole podcast is that's all?
That is?

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Halloween Show. It's on Halloween. You've heard of it. It's
at the Microsoft Theater. It's going to be literally fucking huge,
seven thousand fucking people.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
What's up, Los Angeles. I'm terrified.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
We're Karen and I are dressing up as a surprise
costume and when we want. Everyone's been asking should we
dress up? Yes, we highly recommend dressing up and costume.
Every person I run into is like, I'm going. I
immediately asked, what you're going to dress up? As it's
going to be great, So yes, dress up, Steven.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
I love that you did this.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
I just wanted to just so people you know, it's
our costumes could be very colorful, and I just didn't
want anyone to get kicked out.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
You know, just it was part of an essential part
of their constant.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
So if yeah, hatchets, probably any weaponry of any kind,
not it with you, even though you're Michael Myers and
you're like, but it's my thing. Don't bring a knife.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
Yeah. So yeah, it's it's all that common sense stuff.
And then I guess if you want to bring like
a poster or a banner, a red flag, it has
to be smaller than eleven by seventeen and not on
a pole. That seemed like the most important thing. Okay, no, but.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
Not on a pole, So like, not on a stick
or anything. Yeah, don't bring a stick to don't let
it strip for a living?

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Oh either way, I.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Mean, if you can make a living stripping, go for it.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Ain't no thing maybe no, Yeah, that's a Missy Illiot quote.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, and that's pretty much it. Shoes for safety please
were shoes.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
That's basically you can't go was the barefoot Kintessa ahead,
is someone going to do it? Maybe a zombie barefoot?

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Can I love it?

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Okay, okay, this is an email that got sent and
this is off of our last The last live show
we posted was from Durham and I did the Loss
in family Murders and that was the story. Well, I'll
just read this to you high hilarious people and your menageries.
I loved seeing you in Charlotte. I gave you the
treasure chest with a mini Elvis for Georgia and two

(13:10):
dollar coins for Karen. I have that many elvis that
was at the bottom of the bag when I unpassed
you Stoll. I know it was just in the bag.
I'll give it back, damn it. So listening to your
Live Durham episode, though, I was horrified slash delighted to
hear Karen tell the story of the loss and family murders.
I'm an English teacher, and while I currently teach college English,
my very first teaching position was at North Stokes High School,

(13:33):
a stones throw from the old losson family property. I
knew nothing about it, but on Halloween that first year,
when I let the kids tell scary stories instead of
you know, teaching them things. The kids collectively told me
the entire loss and Family murder story.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
I love that this class of old kids was like yeah,
And then my mom says that I love it. Say
high school because I'm imagining children in her She first
high school.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yes, great, because she said the kids collectively, yes, Yeah,
it's much cuter if it's the first grader. Okay. So
I didn't believe it at first, but I did notice
that I had quite a few students with the last
name of Awesome, and come to find out that many
of them were descendants of the loss In family. They

(14:17):
all knew the gory details because they'd all grown up
hearing their parents talk about it. One student, get Ready,
has a great aunt who all caps still owns her
stolen cake raisin no yep, preserved in a small glass box.
So I tell the story. There was a cake that
was on the table when these murders happened. It was

(14:39):
a Christmas cake and it had raisin sprinkled on the top.
Rose Georgia was very upset about raisins on a cake.
We talked about it forever. Someone ended up buying that
cake and keeping it for a while. Apparently this person's
great aunt stole the cake, a raisin off the cake
when she did her walk through it and kept it
in glass in a glass box. Okay, back to the letter,

(15:01):
that was all me talking. Okay, naturally I demanded to
see it, and she brought it in for showing till
a week later. The kids offered to take me to
the Pain Road location, but I declined because you know,
teenagers are teenagers are already scary enough. Another weird connection,
the Pain family that the road is named Red Pain

(15:22):
was my great uncle whoa of which she's saying, the
Pain family that the road is named after, got it,
Red Pain is her great uncle.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
That's a terrifying name.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Best Susan. Then she then she tells a whole, big,
long ghost story that I can't get into now, but
we will save it for a different mini.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
So these do.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
I got a ton of letters of people from that
same show who were like, yeah, that's those are my
family members too. The story of the Bitter Blood Murders,
which I'll read it in a hometown at some point.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
I think that happens when it's like the small town
infant Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
That's what's That's what's so scary about picking murders for
live shows is that, you know what, someone like the
Dublin Show and someone.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Goes, that's what what did they say? That's my cousin like,
oh are you mad at me? They were so into
they were great? Cool?

Speaker 1 (16:11):
All right?

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Anything else?

Speaker 1 (16:12):
I think that's well, Oh, this was just an email
from the the This is actually awesome. This is the
Minneapolis Murderino Group and it says dear mfmfam. Inspired by
the yoga renos, I hosted a social movement a couple
of social movement classes yesterday at six degrees in Minneapolis,
which I guess is yoga studio. We raised five hundred

(16:35):
dollars for End the Back. We also showed that even
when the world seems inexorably fucked, we can still do
things to support ourselves and others. My fellow teachers wanted
to in on the do gooding, So now I'm organizing
a full series. Every second Sunday of every month, one
of our teachers will host a free class, with donations
going to a nonprofit they care about. The next two

(16:56):
are already scheduled, with November donations going to benefit Tubman,
a local group helping over twenty five thousand victims of
trauma each year, from fleeing war torn areas to experiencing
sex trafficking and intimate partner violence, And in December, Camp Bovy,
a summer camp for city kids who live in poverty
and otherwise wouldn't get The two experience the super fun

(17:17):
of getting eaten alive by mosquitoes, trying to wash the
campfire smell from your hair, and writing pitiful letters home
begging for parents to come pick them up. You know,
fun summer camp shit ssdgm LETTA.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Oh my god, that's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
So the yoga, that's the coolest thing that people are
really kind of yeah in that is just our in
our passing. I want to get into yoga thing right now.
Suddenly people are like, we're going to We're going to
be doing some shit.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
It's a great way to do something for yourself, even
if you if you don't feel you know, people sometimes
don't do things because they don't feel worth self care. Sure,
it's like, well I'm doing something for someone else. Yes,
that's a right way. It's not about you. Yeah, Fish
just a good kickstarter, So good job Minneapolis murdering us.
Thank you for taking that.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
And I would just like to say, yes, the yoga
has fallen away, but the swimming has taken over amazing.
And I just ordered based on someone's recommendation on Twitter.
I just ordered a waterproof iPod that I can listen
to while I swim my lap.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
That's the thing. Uh huh your chain.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
I'll swim now too, but I might you could try.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
I could try.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
It's really Here's what I'll say. Not drinking coffee and
swimming is like the most relaxed and low key I've
been in three thoughts.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Wow, congratulations, thank you. I'll drink my canned wine to that.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
I also just just on a personal note, slammed my
elbow into the wall right before I left my house
to come over here. And it feels broken and like
it feels like my entire arm is broken. Oh you know,
when you like hit its red? Is it? I was
walking full speed into the kitchen and just putting my

(19:02):
purse over my shoulder at the same time and.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Clunked into it, just right on the edge. It looks broken,
it's broken, it looks like it's falling off. Oh, gang Green,
I say, Gangreen.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Now I'm doing the Scarecrow from Wlizard of Oza.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, it's pretty fucking all right.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
That's just a personal lot.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
No, I love it. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
It feels like we haven't recorded one of these in
so long, I know, want to get it all out.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
That's right, that's exactly right, that's exactly right, and that's
exactly right. I'm first. Stephen said, right, okay, that's right,
you ready, I think so should we do this?

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Let's do it?

Speaker 2 (19:38):
All right?

Speaker 3 (19:39):
Hey, uh, it's mid October. Oh, my sister's birthday today.
Happy birthday, Lee, Happy birthday Lee. It's it's mid October.
Everyone's favorite timey or Halloween. Everyone loves it.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yes or no? Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Are you going to tell Are you about to tell
me the plot of the movie of Halloween?

Speaker 3 (19:58):
I am going to read it the original screen, but
the movie Halloween, love nothing more.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
There's so much silence.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
I was just like, ah, I didn't really prepare this week.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
So no, no, but I am going to I am
going to go in a weird direction and I'm going
to uh describe and explain some instances and the instances
and the urban legend and the truthy miss to it

(20:28):
poison Halloween candy.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yes, this is great.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yay, glad you're here with me. Listen.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
I would like to go ahead and think almost exclusively.
Snopes dot com. Nice, one of my favorite time wasters
back when I had a desk job. Yeah, and our
old friend Wikipedia fast info right there.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
That as a married couple is all you need on
the Internet.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
I mean, you're the smartest person in the fucking room. Yes,
got your desk.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
You could actually use Snopes on Wikipedia. Oh my god,
not a bad idea. No, I just thought of that
for myself. Snopes a pedia. What if that's a new thing.
Who will somebody invent this, this new third thing and then.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Give us a cup? Yeah, and then we'll just read
from that. No, I'm not reading. I'm kind of him. Okay,
I'm not. Okay, So let's start with let's start with it,
all right. So, the stories of crazy people passing out
poison candy or candy that has razor blades or needles
in it has been around for fucking decades as an
urban legend. And it makes sense because every three hundred

(21:29):
and sixty four days of the year we tell kids
don't take candy from strangers.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Then one day we're like, go get free candy from strangers.
It's a candy the candy Purge. But really where every
all the rules are gone.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
You could do what you want and you can stab people.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
It's very confusing for children, it's so great and you
can stab what.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Isn't fucking confusing for children? I mean kids are pretty stupid.
It's and everyone lies to them constantly, constant Lyne.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
That's exactly right.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
So actually I didn't know this, and Snopes told me
and Landers, you know, go ask Anne Landers.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
What was it called? Deer Abby? Thank you?

Speaker 3 (22:04):
They each you know, it's two sisters, right, son, So
one was dear Abby and one was Anne Landers.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
I think okay, I think they're too different because one's yeah,
deer Abbey is Abigail Vampiri.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Okay, Anne is go ask an Lander?

Speaker 1 (22:17):
You know?

Speaker 2 (22:18):
For column.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
She published a column in nineteen ninety five that said, quote,
in recent years, there have been reports of people with
twisted minds putting razor blades and poison in taffy apples
and Halloween candy, which is like, well you're spreading that,
go ask and and also sorry Ann, but.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Taffy apples are from nineteen twenty, so this is all bullshit.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
And according to Snopes, since nineteen fifty nine, there have
been around eighty reports of sharp objects in food, and
some hospitals and police departments they started to offer to
x ray the candy in children's that they got before eating,
which sounds like a blast for kids. And actually I

(22:57):
first heard about that when Vince told me about it,
that when he was a kid in Michigan outside of Detroit,
they get dressed up and go trick or treating and
then not get home and go through any other candy,
then go to the police station and have it fucking
x ray. And I asked him for more details and
he's like, no, it just happened like every year.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
So that was standard in his town.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
I think we stand in his town. He's like, it
sucked that.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
It was also true that my like his family all
worked in the police department, so I think that they
like insisted upon it.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, but yeah, it was standard. That's what kids did.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
That's amazing. Yeah, I always thought all of that was bullshit.
I thought that was just as much in a story
as the Wars of Blades themselves.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
That part's true.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
I don't know if it's still happening, but I imagine there's
got to be some towns. All I remember is my
mom now now I know, being high and stealing my
fucking candy when I got home the good shit.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah that's right, Sorry mom, she grabbed those snickers. She's like, oh,
you can have the sweetheart she knows.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yeah, thanks mom, I don't want the fucking whoppers or whatever.
But the majority of those reports turned out to be hoaxes,
And even when the stories were true, it was usually
a fan family member fucking with someone else in their family,
or a little kid being like, look, there's poison it
but he had like dipped it in poison and not
eating it and showing them and then just being a
little shithead. Go to a room forever for every little

(24:11):
shit Okay, So I'm going to tell you some stories
of when it was true, ish, you know, kind of
okay and why, and maybe that helped help the rumors abound.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Sure, well, because you only really need one of those
stories to freak out, because it's like, it's somebody once
a year is going to try to kill your child, right,
a hidden thing, And.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
A lot of these are like something happened and it
blew up in the media, and then when they found
out what really happened, that didn't get covered as much.
So in people's minds, it's true. Yeah, So let's start
in nineteen sixty four, the normal media shike, right, So
nineteen sixty four Helen Fleel, I don't know how p
f e I l spell it like.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
You say it.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, that looks I think flee fleail is good feel
feel in Green Lawn, New York. A housewife and she
got caught handing out packages of indebible inedible treats in
what she described as a joke. She had become annoyed
that a bunch of trick or treaters were showing up
that were like teenagers and too old to be trick
or treating. Yeah, and so she was pissed off at them,

(25:16):
and so she was like, I'm going to make up
these little packages to give out to the fucking the
little bratty sixteen year olds, Okay. In the packages were
dog biscuits, steel wool pads, and arsenic laced ant poisoned buttons.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Oh no, So she'd like, I don't know, somehow do that.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
She was crazy.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
She was crazy and kind of a bit okay, right.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, you can't give people arsenic of any kind, even
if it's a joke, even as a hilarious joke.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Oh, jokey prank.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
But they were clearly marked poison and labeled with the
skull and crossbones, so like.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, but you could have just written that somewhere and
get it, I'm trying to poison you and not actually
do it.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, like what if one of the kids have eaten it,
you know, teenage, they're really stupid.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Carol would have been like, oh, well, ha ha ha, Yeah,
I'm so funny.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
So she told the teenagers at the package were a
joke when she handed it out. It sounds like she
was just trying to be the cool aunt. Oh and
it got in it and then she was a little high.
Yeah right, No one was harmed at all, but even so,
the potential to harm was there, so she was charged
by the police. She pled guilty to endangering children and

(26:25):
eventually received a suspended sentence.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Wow, Dallen, Oh no, she really regretted that hilarious joe
jokes on you, Helen Ellen. I get it when you're
always trying to be funny, yeah, it really fucks your
life up. I get you.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
In nineteen seventy, two days after Halloween, a five year
old kid named Kevin lapsed into a coma and died.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
Four days after.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
Four days later, and it came out that his family
said that he had eaten some Halloween candy that was
shown when they tested it, we had been sprinkled with heroin.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Oh my god, right, it's so awful.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
It was reported as a real life example of what
happens on Halloween, but was what less likely was reported
was that when police investigated further, they found that the
boy had gotten into his uncle's heroin stash, consumed it,
and in an attempt to cover for the uncle, had

(27:26):
sprinkled the candy themselves with heroin.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Oh no, I know, that's just that's just tragical.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Horrible, But it's a you know, in people's minds, that's
it was a connection there, right, it's awful. In nineteen ninety,
a seven year old Santa Monica girl named Ariel died
on October thirty first, on Halloween while trick or treating,
like while she was retreating. The Police or a feared
of mass random poisoning, so they immediately conducted an intense

(27:58):
orditor search on this street where she had collapsed. They
thought other kids might have gotten poisoned Halloween candy, so
they blocked off the street. They took all the kids
candy and questioned everyone for several hours and interviewed residents
and Halloween trick or treaders.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
What I mean, Yeah, the only kind, the only kind
of tricker treaders.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
But in the end it turned out that Ariel had
actually died of congenital heart failure.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
It was just a fucking huge coincidence.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
So well, here's the thing, though, that's insanely tragic. So
I don't mind that. It's like, guess what, Halloween's canceled. Yeah,
because it's like, this is the worst thing that could happen,
and you should just pretend.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Like it didn't happen. It's awful, So it's just awful.
Ninety one nine tenety one. Another suspected Halloween poisoning occurred
in Washington, d C. A thirty one year old named
Kevin Michael Cherry of Montgomery County died shortly after eating
some of his kids Halloween candy. Oh no, parents lost

(28:57):
their shit, dumped all their kids candy, but later it
was determined that by an autopsy that he had died
of congeneral heart failure as well.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Oh wow, yeah, but natural causes, natural chalaz. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
So then in nineteen eighty six, seven year old a
seven year old named Ferdinand of San Jose, California, collapsed
on Halloween after eating candy and cookies he was given
while tric retreating initial your analysis, urine analysis?

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Is it your analysis?

Speaker 1 (29:29):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
At the hospital showed traces of cocaine in a system.
Oh no, everyone loses their shit, throw away all their candy.
But then tests come back and it was negative to
cocaine and the first results were wrong, so the media
had already picked on all up. But later they found
out that he had died of natural causes as well.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Oh god, I know.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Oh it's just the worst.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Well, and it makes sense that like the media also
has this big story, it's like ELL's papers, and then it's.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
The truth of it is just tragic. It's just tragic
and heartbreaking. So they put it in a little column.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
A follow up yeah, that no one even pays attention to,
because also everyone's already got it doesn't make sense to
just beg for free candy food strangers.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
It's a weird tradition.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, we do. So people are I feel like in
any bad news, people are just like, well, let's just
throw it all away.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, do you give out?

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Do you like stock your No one comes down our
street because there's it's a more popular like four blocks over.
Oh yeah, And so everyone on our street goes totally dark.
People pretend, everyone pretends they're not home. And I've had
one trick or treater. It was the cutest. It was
a little like a four year old girl and I
think her a slightly older brother, and I just gave

(30:46):
each of them half the bowl of candy.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
I was just like, you guys are the only.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
One I would to live in a place one day
that does trick or treating.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, Like, I just have never lived in a place
that does that.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
It's very you know, it's the cutest. Well, in my hometown, Paloma,
it's really big on d Street, which is the street
with all the big old Victorian houses, and people go crazy.
They make their houses haunted houses. They make like it's
just total traditions.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
It's really fun someday and you to go hang out
with my nephews on that day instead of just not
see what they're into. Right, so of going to all
year parties, my fun things in my live show. Actually,
I'm not coming to a live show. I'm gonna go
trick or treating with my nephews.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Okay, I'll bring Nora down to co host with me.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Right, sounds great. She's like, actually I'd rather trick or treat.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, Nora's like, I have plans over on D Street. Thanks.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Anyway, in the year two thousand, a dude named James
Joseph Smith of Minneapolis stuck needles in the Snickers bars
that he handed out.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
This is the one we've all heard of.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
To trick or treaders.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
What year was it?

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Sorry, this is two thousand. I'm sure it's happened before that.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah, there were several children who bit into the candy bars,
but there was only one teenager who was pricked by
one of the needles, and he'd and it wasn't like bad.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
But if I'm pricked by a needle, I'm like, I'm dying.
Take me to the hospital.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yes, and also like an your mouth anywhere in your
mouth is very.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Upsetting, terrible. But police charged Smith with one count of
adulterating a substance with intent to cause harm or illness.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
I mean that's really throw the book at them. Yeah,
how about charging him with being a fucking creep a
creepy dude and a dick and an asshole and keep
your children away from him.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
Thirty to sixty years for those that's so did you
know that sounds harsh?

Speaker 2 (32:40):
But have you ever met the creepy dick?

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah, you'd want them to go away for thirty years too,
promise you minimum.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
And then in the town of Hercules, California that's near
youish not really okay? Great?

Speaker 3 (32:55):
In two thousand again, some Tricker treaders. So these Tricker
treaders come home and they're like, mommy, daddy, why are
these little Snickers the individual miniature Snicker bars like done
up like little packets and there's some like there's some
weird oregano in them. So they find these little packets
of of pot tity tied up in these fucking Snickers bars,

(33:19):
like when they opened the Snickers, it's pot Yeah, so
that really did happen, and the police are like, wait,
what the fuck? The homeowners apparently weren't my mom because
they were like bummed about it. Yeah, because they called
somebody what if that was the whole time. My mom
was like, I'll take this one, this one, and this one.
It was just her dealer.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
That you had just been drug running for your mom
in the seventies.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
Once a year. Yeah, Mom, I don't think it's October thirty. First,
just go out with your pillowcase. Go Trigg or tree
down the street. So so they they find the house
where they had gotten the little bag is of pot
and the homeowner was like, wait, what the fuck like
the hole someone or legit didn't know what was going on,
and the police believed him he's telling the truth. Turns

(34:04):
out this dude worked in the dead letter office at
the local post office and he had found a bag
of miniature Snickers in the dead post stuff. Oh you
know what I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, And he'd find
that with a long sum like canned food, and the
post office was like, here, take this to the local charity.
But he was like, well, I'm just going to take

(34:25):
these snickers and pass them out at at Halloween. But
it turned out that the candy was probably just someone's
attempt at smuggling pop through the mail.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
And what a great attempt.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
It was great.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, this guy should go to prison for being a
stupid idiot and stealing from the charity too. I don't know,
he kind of love him, bubbling all those names, Herb,
bumbling old Herb.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
He's just kind of like he didn't he knew he
had to have candy for the trade taters, but he
didn't want to spend that five bucks.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
And he's also not he's giving it away. It's not
like he's making money off of it.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
And he clearly didn't open like he's actually a miracle case.
In my opinion, he didn't open and try to eat
them himself to then know he could have that and
given that to charity. Dude, that's what you give the teenagers.
And show it to him first, make him give you
some money.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
Karen's got it, plying, I get it. Okay, finally we've
gotten to the real fucking deal. Okay, here we go.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yes, Can I just just say this because this is
just reminding me, and I can't remember if I've told you,
but one time we were trigger treating on D Street.
Before it was like as commercial as it is now.
It was just the real eighties deal. We were with
our friends and their babysitter. So we were like eight
or whatever. And then this was like a fifteen year

(35:45):
old girl that was.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Eating all your candy.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
No, no, no, she was super chilled. She would just
like let us walk up and she would stand at
the end of like the walkway and wait for us.
And we walked up to this one house and it
was the oldest lady and she had a little like
I still remember all of it, a moss green bowl,
and it had like eight little just cookies, like like

(36:08):
powdered sugar cookies. I couldn't tell if they were packaged
or she'd made them, but she was like, here you go,
and we all were like thank you. Of course we
didn't want them. We were like thanks so much. And
we walked back kind of holding them like uncomfortably, and
we get to the end of the thing and the
fifteen year old sees them all our hand and she
just slaps each cookie out of each of our hands.

(36:30):
She was like, put that down, throw that.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Away, like that.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Oh god, because they were like homemade, yes, and because
they were covered in white powders, She's like, gosh. She
fucking like was like, wipe your hands. Off do this
and like had this thing where like she saved your
life and what if she did? But we were like
that old lady. It made me yeah for so long
because I was like, if you had seen this old lady,
she would be the last person you would think they
would ever murder you with her lemon drop cookies. But

(36:53):
this girl was just like throw it away, went into
full babysitter mode. It was the best.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Make sure and Grandma come out on the next morning
and see where cookies like laying waste on the sidewalk
in front of her and heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
And that's how she does so sad.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
All right, let's get to the real deal.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
October thirty first, aka Halloween nineteen seventy four. Here we are, Yeah,
Ronald Mark O'Brien. This fucking dude takes his two kids,
Timothy and Elizabeth, trick or treating in Pasadena, Texas, with
their neighbor dude and the neighbor's two children coming along
with them.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
What's up, We're all going trick or treating?

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Fun. Great.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
They stop at one of the places they stop, nobody
answers the door, and so everyone runs ahead except for
fucking good old Ronald Mark O'Brien, who's like, I'm gonna
catch up with you guys. When he does catch up
with them, he's like, oh, they someone answered the door finally,
and he gave me these pixie sticks. So he gives
he produces five twenty one inch pixie sticks, and he

(38:00):
gives two of this pixie He gives one pixie stick
to each of his kids and one each to the
neighbor's kids. And then they get home and they see
a ten year old kid that they knew from church,
and Brian's like, oh, here's the last pixie.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Stick to this guy.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
So he passes out five pixie sticks that he apparently
got from this ghost to neighbor. Okay, before bed that night,
his son, eat year old Timothy, asks to eat some
of the candy had collected. He chooses a pixie stick,
and which is I call bullshit, because no fucking kid
wants a pixie stick. He has trouble getting the candy

(38:37):
open and the powder out, so his dad helps him
with it. He says it tastes bitter, so he gives
him kool aid to wash away the taste, and Timothy
immediately complains that his stomach hurt and he goes to
the bathroom. He begins vomiting and convulsing, and then he
goes limp, I know, and little Timothy O'Brien dies on
the way to the hospital less than an hour after

(38:58):
consuming the candy.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Shit.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
Of course, the community goes fucking ape shit. Parents in
the area bring their kids candy to the police, thinking
it was laced with poison, and initially police didn't suspect
this dude, Ronald Any with any wrongdoing until Timothy's autopsy
reveals that the pixie stick he consumes was lace with
a fatal dose.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Of potassium cyanide. Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
They go to find the other pixie sticks, the like
four other ones, and fucking thank god none of the
kids had eaten them. But when they go to the
big kid's house, they couldn't find the pixie stick in
his bag of candy. The parents are freaking out, where's
the pixie stick? They go upstairs to the kid's room.
He's sleeping on his bed and he's holding the pixie stick.
He had tried to open it, but it had been

(39:46):
shut in such a way that he couldn't He couldn't
get it.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Open, so he just fucking fell asleep. Probably sugar. He
was ten.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Oh my god, that's a miracle.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, he was. It was sitting with him.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
That mother cried so hard and she slapped everyone around her.
Can you just see, like, don't ever scare me like that?
You ever? She's slapping the pixie stick back and forth
across its face.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Oh my god, she rubs a little of it on
her teeth, just to make sure.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
Let's see. Okay, So all five of the pixie sticks.
Turns out they had all been tampered with. They had
been opened and the top two inches had been refilled
with cyanide powder and then resealed with a staple, which
is why this kid couldn't open the fucking thing. And like,
according to a pathologist who tested the pixie sticks, the

(40:41):
candy consumed by Timothy contained enough cyanide to kill two adults. Well,
the other four cyanide. The other for candies contained dosages
that would killed three to four adults.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Jesus Christ even stronger.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
Police investigated Ronald and learned that he was over one
hundred thousand dollars in debt, and he had a history
and this is nineteen seventy four money which we know
is that's a million dollars in today.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
It's easily a million dollars.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
And he had a history being unable to hold down
a job. He was going to get fired soon, his
car was about to be repossessed, he had defaulted on
several bank loans, and the family home was about to
be foreclosed on. And of course he had also taken
out life insurance policies for a large sum of money
on his children, despite his insurers being like, why do

(41:28):
you want to take out another twenty thousand dollars on
your kids? It was like up to sixty thousand dollars
that he had taken out on I think each of
his kids.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
So he's just an awful psychopath.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
He's a fucking piece of shit. At his trial, he
maintained his innocence throughout this whole thing, including at his trial. Obviously,
his defense was mainly that, hey man, look at all
these decades of urban legends about mad poisoners on Halloween.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
It must have been some fucking crazy poisoner.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
And look how much like or like how much history
there is of that, So you can't blame me. It's
a known thing that everyone does. Just like all this
stuff I just read to you and it didn't fucking work. Okay,
it's not really true. It's not true. The case was
circumstantial completely, but still. Ronald O'Brien was convicted of the

(42:18):
murder of his son Timothy in May nineteen seventy five.
He received the death sentence and was executed by lethal
injection on March thirty.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
First.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
It should have been fucking Halloween nineteen eighty four show,
and that is some stories of fucking candy being laced.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Wow, Halloween. So the one real one is like the worst, creepiest.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
The one real one is like true as fuck, which
is why it can keep being told because it's like
it's true, but it's not what you think it is.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
It's true, but then it's just it's the lie of like,
but this is what people do, right, which is.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Like, no, they don't. They kill their kids and their
family for fucking life insurance money.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
That's what they do.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
That's what that's the truth of it.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, the husband did it.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
That's the real trick. And it's not a treat.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
That trick of life is that the life is no treat.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
So this was one of the stories. And I think
I told you when we were in Medford, Massachusetts. It's
from there, but it is one of these stories. And
I remember the first time I saw this on you
know which Nightline or whichever, a true crime kind of
magazine show, and it was one of the most shocking

(43:33):
true crime stories I'd ever seen on TV and really
a huge bummer. And I figured for our live show
it would be such a bummer.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah, Everyone's like, why didn't you do this one all
the time? And it's like, because you can't tell an
audience full of people the most huge bummer you've ever
heard of.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Well you can, but then it's just real quiet and
it's a real bummer, and we don't get to have
any fun. And so when that's why we like to
do like more historical or the weirder ones, because then
there's there's you can have a little more fun. This
is this is one of the worst, uh and most
fucked up crimes. Oh my god, Oh my god, am

(44:09):
I And it's the murder of Carol Stewart. So all
of the information that I got in these stories I
got from two articles. One was written for Boston Magazine
by a guy named David J. Krychech. I believe is
the way you pronounce his last name, and the other
is was written by Roberto Scalise from Boston dot Com,

(44:32):
and they were both of them are just full of
information and I'm you know, there's lots of poll quotes
and big chunks of just their writing such they put
it together really nicely and concisely. So It's the night
of October twenty third, nineteen eighty nine, and twenty nine
year old Chuck Stewart and his thirty year old wife,

(44:53):
Carol are driving home in their Toyota Cressida from a
birthing class at Brigham and Women's Hostelpital. Carol's seven months
pregnant with their first child. At eight forty three pm,
the state police dispatcher gave Gary McLoughlin gets a phone
call from Chuck Stewart's car phone and he says, my

(45:15):
wife's been shot. I've been shot. So the dispatcher asks
if Carol's breathing. Chuck says, I just hear gurgling, and
then basically for the next thirteen minutes, this dispatcher tries
to get Chuck to say where he is in the city,
and Chuck is saying I can see a busy street

(45:36):
ahead of me. I can't I'm in so much pain.
And the guy's going, look at a street sign, look
at this. We're trying to find you. And the guy's
just screaming and going crazy.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Did you listen to it?

Speaker 1 (45:48):
No? But they had it, and I have a picture
of one of the newspaper had like an article that
was a front page article, and they have the what
do you call that transcript? The transcript of it as
the beginning of the article, and it's just the guy going, chuck,
look up for me, tell me what street you're on,

(46:09):
like anything. And it takes thirteen minutes. Shit, and the
guy assumes this guy is in shock, so he sounds lucid,
he's speaking in a lucid way, but he's he's in
shock and he's been shot in the gut.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Basically Okay.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
So when police finally do find them, the car is
at the corner of St. Saint Alphonsa Street and Hordon Way,
horrid and Way, and so they're just blocks from that
hospital where they were taking their birthing class. Now this
is so fucked up. So the paramedics get there and
they have a camera crew from the show Rescue Nine

(46:46):
one one riding along with them. No. Yes, So they
all get out of the ambulance and start working on
these guys in the car, and there's and basically there's
footage of Jesus.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah, and I watched the out of that show as
a kid.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Yeah. I don't know if it actually I don't know
if it made it onto the real show, but the pictures, like,
there's pictures from that, So there is footage. There is
footage I don't know where it ended up living that
shows Carol pregnant with a gaping head wound, being cut
from her seat though and laid onto a stretcher as

(47:26):
the e MT is compressing her chest and trying to
get a heartbeat, going, Oh my god. So they rush
her back to bring them in Women's hospital. The doctors
they have they take the baby out. It's so it's
only it's under four pounds, and they put the baby

(47:46):
on life support.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Chuck is taken to Boston City Hospital. This isn't this
area of Boston where there's truly like hospitals everywhere.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
And everyone's going to school and shit and learning, and.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
It's all kind of colleges and all kinds of hospitals.
So Chuck goes to Boston City and he then undergoes
six hours of surgery on his bowel, gallbladder, and liver,
and he has substantial damage and is in critical condition,
but he survives. Unfortunately, Carol does not. She's pronounced dead

(48:20):
at three am on October twenty fourth, nineteen eighty nine.
So four days later, on October twenty eighth, Carol is
buried in Medford, Massachusetts, which was the town, the area
we were in because that's where she was from, Honey.
More than eight hundred people, including Boston Mayor Ray Flynn,
Governor Michael Ducaccus, and Cardinal Bernard Law attend her funeral,

(48:47):
and Chuck is still in the hospital, but he manages
to write a eulogy for his wife's funeral, and it
is read by a family friend, and this is what
they read. Good Night, sweet wife, I love. God has
called you to his hands, not to take you away
from me or the happiness and gladness you brought to me,
but to bring you away from the cruelty and the

(49:08):
violence that fills this world. He said that for us
to truly believe, we must know that his will was
done and that there was some right in the meanest
of acts. In our souls. We must forgive this sinner
because he would too. He capital ag My life will
be more empty without you, as will the lives of
your family and friends. You have brought joy and kindness

(49:30):
to every life you've touched, and now you sleep away
from me. I will never again know the feeling of
your hand in mine, but I will always feel you.
I miss you, and I love you, your husband, Chuck.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
I want to cry and get really sad and emotional,
but I'm scared he did it, so I feel not
ready to cry about that.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Yeah, I would stay in a neutral place for now,
That's what I But I don't want to ruin it
for you. No, that's okay. I feel like just the
pattern of these things is ruined. True.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
I'm like, do I feel for him and cry or
do Okay?

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Here's can I point out why I think your instincts
are telling you, hey, dry those eyes?

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Because the line in our souls, we must forgive this
sinner because he would too. Just something I tell.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
Us, I'd like to go ahead and allow Vince to
have hate in his soul for whoever kills me one
day for the rest of his life.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Right, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah, because when we're so quick to forgive the sinner,
like this is still the funeral, let's.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Get let's get past this everyone. Yeah, let's give it
a year.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Okay. So two of Chuck's brothers act as pall bearers
carrying Carol's casket during the services, and then on November ninth, seventeen,
at seventeen days old, their baby dies of respiratory failure.
So it's two deaths. So the one when the police
talked to Charles Stewart, he tells them, get ready, here,

(50:53):
I am Boston, nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
You got a car phone bro.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
A black man with a raspy voice invaded their car night.
He said. The man took cash, the car, keys, jewelry,
and Carol's Gucci bag. But before he left, he started
saying he thought that Chuck was five to zero. He
thought he was a plain clothes cop, and then he
shot both of them Jesus and Chuck said that on

(51:16):
the first shot he ducked and that's why the first
bullet hit him in the abdomen and the second shot
hit Carol in the head, killing her, and ultimately the
unborn baby. So when all of this hits the newspapers
the next day, the city goes into a complete furre.
The Boston Harald runs a headline that says, quote a
terrible night with this huge picture where and it's a

(51:39):
really disturbing picture. Carol is slumped toward the driver's seat,
Her hair's in her face, her mouth is open. There
is blood on her shoulder, while Charles, who's in the
driver's seat, is his shirt has blood, it's ripped open.
He's grimacing, and it looks like he's fighting to get
out of the car. It's a right which hat because

(52:00):
it's fucking front page story, it's headline news. And because
this was the height of the crack epidemic in America,
so all black neighborhoods pretty much in like you know,
major urban areas were just overrun with violence and crime

(52:20):
because of the crack epidemic. And then on top of that,
this rescue nine one one footage and pictures like this
really made it real. It was just like, you know,
this random, random shooting, this random crime, and here.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
It is a pregnant woman and clor whatever.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
It is the ultimate in innocence and the ultimate in
whiteness these two people, and.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Here's why it's okay for your racism to exist on It.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Just underlines the story. So in David Kochek's article, he says, quote,
but with a black perpetrator and white victims, it fits
comfortably into this nation's deep rooted prejudices about race and crime.
In Boston, white paranoia was running high as the crack
epidemic intensified violent crime in black neighborhoods like Roxbury. But

(53:12):
it wasn't long before an ugly racist murmur underscored white
Boston's empathy for the Stewarts. Mayor Ray Flynn seemed to
sanction that attitude when he pledged to quote get the
animals responsible. Yeah, in the fucking press. Within days, there
are calls by lawmakers to reinstate the death penalty. Jesus
Frank Bolotti, a former Massachusetts Attorney General who was running

(53:35):
for governor, told the press quote, I'd pull the switch myself.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
And along with those incendiary statements, the press was comparing
the Stuarts to the Kennedys, with the Boston Herald running
an article about their lives with the headline quote dreams
of Camelot.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Oh, my god.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Yeah. So she was really beautiful and they were really successful.
They lived in a really nice part of town. And
this was that kind of thing where they symbolized like
the up and coming white couple.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Right.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
So basically, Charles Stewart Junior and Carol di Meatti Stuart
met in nineteen eighty They were both working at a
restaurant in Via, which is Chuck's hometown, Villa.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
I would not I don't know how that spelled, but
I would have not probably said that.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
I'm giving it the accent. I'm giving it the Revere
accent because it's Revere. But they say Rivia, Oh you know, like, yeah,
did you see the movie is it The Boxer the Fighter? Yeah? Yeah,
the Christian Bale?

Speaker 2 (54:36):
So good.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
I think that took vy Rivia.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Oh okay.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
So Carol is from Medford, as I said, so is.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
The black Dahlia by the way, Oh that's right.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
And so she graduated from Boston College. Then she went
to Suffolk Law School and graduated from there. The two
of them got married in nineteen eighty five, and she
went on to a lucrative career as a tax attorney,
and Is becomes the manager of a first salon on
Newberry scuse he makes six figures a year being the

(55:09):
manager of a fir salon.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
I mean, people like their ferv. It's kind of covered
in it right now. And I didn't even have to
pay anything for Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Seriously, if you look at my swotpants, it looks like
I'm the manager of a first salon as well. But
mine's volunteer, right, Okay, So they live in No, they
don't live in Rivia. I want them they live in.
It looks it is spelled reading, but I bet it's
reading or some bullshit like that, like you say it.

(55:37):
The neighbors were later quoted in the paper to say
that they remembered the couple quote lingering over a goodbye
kiss each work day morning.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
She'd had no idea she married a monster. This kind
of is reminding me of the what's the Bay Area one?

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Recently, Scott Peter Scott Peterson, Yeah, Lacy Peterson exactly, because
they're both pregnant. Yeah okay, so, uh, Chuck's car keys
they turn up in a mission in the Mission Hill
projects in Roxbury, weird, and so police add one hundred

(56:15):
extra officers to go start kicking indoors and randomly frisking
young black men looking for the quote black man with
the raspy voice and the black sweatsuit with a red stripe,
you can't do that, they do, And city councilor David
Scoundress was quoted as saying, quote, you can't help but

(56:35):
wonder if what you're watching is a class situation. That
it's all right for the poor to put up with
an enormous amount of shootings and killings, but presumably if
you're white, upper income and suburban, maybe that changes things.
That's sad. And Leslie Harris, a public defender familiar with
the case, is quoted in The Boston Globe is saying, quote,

(56:57):
the police kept telling the kids that they'd have to
come to take a ride with them. The way they
intimidated these kids into making statements, some head should roll.
And they really did do that too, because two weeks
after the shooting, a fifteen year old boy ends up
telling police that his uncle, Willy Bennett, had bragged that
he was the killer. The boy immediately recanted, but the

(57:19):
police didn't care because they already had the name and
they thirty nine year old Willy Bennett was also the
perfect suspect he had spent most of his adult life
in jail, and he had a long rap sheet with
instance as a violent crime, including he wants threaten a
cop with a shotgun in nineteen eighty one. So it
was open and shut right there. On November eleventh, the

(57:41):
Boston Herald gets the scoop and they print that Willy
Bennett is a prime suspect, and then a Norfolk prosecutor
named Louis Sabadini calls Bennett a mad dog running a
muck in the press. On December twenty eighth, Chuck Stewart
picks Bennett out of a police lineup, and when he did,

(58:03):
they say that he had a strong physical reaction when
he saw Willie Bennett in the lineup. Yeah, so it
looks like everyone's like, we have our man in This
case is solved until the twist. On January third, nineteen ninety,
Chuck Stewart's twenty three year old brother, Matthew, contacts the

(58:23):
DA and asks for a meeting, and in that meeting
he confesses to a shocking secret. Turns out the murderer
was not a black man in a black sweatsuit with
a raspy voice. Carol Stuart and her unborn child had
been shot in cold blood by none other than the
grieving husband himself, Chuck fucking Stuart. Dude.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
This twenty three year old brother comes forward and is like,
and listen to this shit, Oh my God, tell me everything.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
He says that his brother asked him to drive by
the scene and take the purse that had the gun
and the jewelry in it, and then go drive the
drive and throw that purse with all that evidence in it,

(59:09):
off the Dizzy Bridge and into the Pines River. And
his brother paid him ten thousand dollars to do that.
And so basically he said he didn't know that Chuck
was going to shoot Carol. He just had agreed to
come by and do this thing for ten thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
So had she already been shot when he did.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
It, Yeah, he must have because he was getting rid
of the gun, right, But Matthew said he didn't know
that that was the plan. He was just there and
then was given this bag. Holy, But once he was there,
he knew what happened and he kept doing Yeah. So
but he basically so.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Oh God, is a video of his interrogation or confession.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Oh I don't know, but there's pictures of him in
the paper. So basically he then kind of talked to
the press after this.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
But Carrie her fucking Casco.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Yeah, that's the next thing I was going to read that. No, no, no.
Him and his brother who he confessed to two days later,
their older brother Michael, he went and he told him
that this was actually a murder, and then they went
and carried her casket at her funeral, knowing the truth.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Oh, I want to see photos of them carrying the caskets.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Yeah, there's you can find all of this. I mean,
that's the craziest thing about this entire crime is it
was so meticulously and insanely covered in the paper. Yeah that,
like every moment of this crime is in the paper.
And Matthew says that he finally came forward when he
realized Charles had fingered Willie Bennett for the crime and

(01:00:46):
that he knew an innocent man was going to go
to jail for the murder that his brother had committed.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
And a year later, Matthew Stewart was found guilty of
obstruction of justice and insurance fraud. So he did time
for this for being a part of basically eighting in
a bedding. Okay, So now the fucking DA and the
authorities know that it's actually Chuck Stewart. It's like the
hardest one eighty all of those people who are like
hell bent on.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
The storyline that they have to fucking give it up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
They have to turn it around. So there's a citywide
manhunt for Chuck Stewart, and it turns out that he
had checked in at the Sheridan and Braintree in room
two thirty one, and on the night of January third,
he calls down to the front desks and asks for
a four to thirty am wake up call. Oh no,
and sunrise. On January fourth, nineteen ninety, commuters report an

(01:01:40):
unoccupied Nissan Maxima is stopped on the lower deck of
the Tobin Bridge. It's Chuck Stuart's new car that he
had bought with the insurance the life insurance payout of
Carol's life insurance. Authorities find a note on the front
seat that Stuart wrote that said quote, my life has
been nothing but a battle for the last four months.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Oh you pour fucking baby.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Huh. Whatever this new accusation is, it has beaten me.
I've been sapped of my strength. So He doesn't cop
to it, he doesn't admit it. He acts like he's
been pushed to this because of this accusation where his
brother told the truth. Then Chuck Stewart jumped to his
death from the Tobin Bridge into the Mystic River.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Did he fake it? He really did it? People saw him.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
They pulled the body out.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
They pulled did they pull a body out?

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
That was my pulled? They pulled his body out?

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
How have I I yelled this so often? How have
I never heard of this?

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
I know? Isn't it crazy? I remember seeing this story
when I was like in my early twenties, and the turn,
the way they set up that turn was so perfect
because they make you get racist. They make yeah you
go get him, yes, yeah. You see like Willie Bennett
was brought into they had him in court for the charges,

(01:02:58):
and he's sitting there like in his you know, jail clothes,
and he's kind of got his hand on his head
and it is like, but of course, when you look
at that through the eyes of someone before all of
this information, it's like, there's the monster that killed those
poor people.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Stories like this make you check and reevaluate what you believe.
The media tells you and what in the biases you
have once you see that everything is a story that's
portrayed a certain way, yes, that you know might not
even be close to the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Yeah, And it's the implicit bias thing where as a
white person, you're reading the news in a way where
you don't have you know, you don't have automatic empathy
for people of color or somebody that's different from you
that might be seeing this from a totally different.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Or the minute you hear that they were on crack,
or that the minute you hear.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
That they were a sex worker, or that they lived
in the project's right, and they don't deserve as much
empathy as you do, or they deserve things that happened
to them when you really these are all things that
have been thrown at us to including the quote crack epidemic,
which you look into it it was a systematic way
to make black people, you know, less powerful, to.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Addict them to drugs, send them to jail, exactly it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
I mean, fucking look it up, man, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Oh, I mean, And here's the thing too, you know,
these are stories, these kinds of stories I think we
avoid a lot of the time because it's gross injustice,
it's gross racism. We don't want to fuck it up.
We don't want to tell the story wrong, we don't
want to get the information wrong or whatever. But I
think the way everything is happening in this country right now,
it's part of that saying of people just dropping the

(01:04:34):
fucking storyline that you're holding onto that you're innocent, you
didn't do anything.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
You're safe because you live in a good neighborhood and
you don't live in you know, the or somehow you're
immune to things because uh, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
But that basically that you should be immune to it,
that these kind of crimes, that kind of crime is
okay if it's happening in that bad quote unquote bad
part of town. It's not your problem if it's happening
over there. But if it comes into you you're part
of town, then then you know, everyone should go crazy.
So it's it's obviously a huge, huge issue in the

(01:05:09):
justice system in this country. It's a huge issue when
you talk about it happening for black people, for happening
for Native Americans, I mean, it's for sex workers.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
All of it. It's just that everyone you're treated differently
if you're different than the status quo.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
And if you're marginalized and you're not empowered and you
don't have fucking money.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
And we need to look into why why those things
are happening, and why people don't have money, and why
people are addicted to crack and have to sell crack
and have to go into sex work or want to
go into sex work, of course, but and.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Also kind of more immediately, we have to stop privatize
prisons that people make money for arresting disenfranchised people who
have no support, no money, and no representation, and then
those people are lost in the system and people make
money off of it. That should not happen.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
It's the same thing of why one person of color
will go to prison for selling a certain amount of
a small amount of weed and another fucking white person
will talk about the soaps and lotions that they sell
that and their weed, brownie parties and shit, and it's fine,
and it's all fine.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
It's not okay, it's not okay.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
And I think these days that's all coming to the surface.
People's voices are being raised who need to be heard
and need to be listened to, or we're all learning
about this as like suburban white gals of a certain age.
We are now coming to understanding about this in a

(01:06:38):
way that we just didn't know before, didn't ever understand,
didn't have to have empathy for before, because it simply
wasn't in our.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Lives, right, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
So all so, seventy three days after the shooting, all
of this news breaks.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Everything immediately cool does he immediately? Like how quickly from
when they find out to when he jumps off the bridge.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
It's like a day, okay? And the Boston Globe has
a headline that reads from nightmare to reality. A city
is reeling. So it's continuing to play out in the press,
and Mayor Flynn calls the case quote a giant fraud
on this city. The police and the press and the
authorities all blame each other, and lots of people claim

(01:07:23):
after the fact that they were skeptical, skeptical of Chalk
Stewart all along, but of course there's very little evidence
of that, especially since all of it was in the press,
every moment of it. You had your chance to be skeptical,
and none of those people were skeptical in the least.
They not only were skeptical, he was fucking John f Kennedy. Yeah,

(01:07:44):
The New York Times wrote on January sixth, nineteen ninety quote,
A vicious round of finger pointing began here today as prosecutors,
the police, and the news media began tracing the trail
of faulty assumptions, disregarded suspicions, blunders, and perhaps even lies
that put the wrong man at the center of one
of the most highly publicized and emotionally charged murder cases

(01:08:05):
in this city's history. End quote. Mayor Flynn went to
the Bennett home to apologize to Willie Bennett and his family,
telling Missus Bennett that, quote, what has taken place has
been very unfortunate.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
I don't know anything with fortune fortunate or.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
Not, not at all. The Bennett family later said that
Mayor Flynn only stayed a couple of minutes and wouldn't
sit down when offered. Thanks for the fucking extension of yourself. Soon,
news of Charles Stewart's activities in the weeks before and
after the murder comes spilling out of the shadows. Just

(01:08:43):
days before he jumped to his death, he was in
Peabody buying jewelry for his secret younger girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Come on, there's also.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
A story that he was angry that having a baby
would cut Carol's paycheck what from the family coffers. So
Charles Stewart murdered his wife and baby and took eighty
two thousand dollars for all of that trouble, had full

(01:09:13):
surgery and then ends up three months later killing himself.
And then in September twenty eleven, Matthew Stewart, his younger brother,
died from a drug overdose in a Cambridge homeless shelter. Geez,
Obviously his life was entirely destroyed. Yeah, by the entire thing.

(01:09:34):
I'll finish with this full quote from David J. Cryjack's article.
I'm sorry, I know I'm pronouncing that wrong. Quote whatever,
it's genesis. The crime picked from Open Boston, The crime
picked open Boston's racial scab thirteen years after the Busing
riots and Stanley Forman's famous photo of a white teenager

(01:09:55):
using Old Glory as a lance against Ted Lancemark a
black man. When stuart Its deceptions were exposed, the Globe
called him quote a world class con man. But he
really wasn't. Prisons are full of spouse killers, after all.
But Boston's police and the public enabled Stuart with their
eagerness to accept his story. Michael Curry, president of the

(01:10:16):
Boston NAACP, is not sure that the case would play
out any differently today. Quote, it still has relevance. We
still live every day with the preconceived notions of black
and brown boys as quote potential criminals. Stuart played on
those prejudices. He said to himself, if I had to
accuse somebody of a crime, who would I accuse? And

(01:10:37):
where would it be? A black man in Roxbury, Dorchester, Mattapan.
He knew everyone would believe him. And you know what,
he was right Jesus. And that's the story of the
murder of Carol Stewart. Holy fucking shit, isn't that fucked
Oh my god, dude. I mean, Willie Bennett was a

(01:10:59):
dead man, was gone like that. He was going to
go to prison for the rest. He was going to
be killed in prison, right. They wanted to reinstate the
death penalty. So fucked up?

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
I feel, yeah, it's so fucked up. The brother is
also a tragic fucking character in it. I mean, because
he did the right thing. That's I'm surprised he didn't
get immunity for testifying against his brother.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
But it wouldn't have mattered. It would have been off
the table at that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
I mean, maybe there was going to but because there
wasn't a trial, they needed to give someone, right, get someone.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
Yeah, and yeah, you know those cops were like, get somebody.
Somebody has to do something to somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
The community probably became off the table once he and.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
I bet you he didn't. They didn't seem like maybe
his brother had money, but they like in the pictures
where he's pointing to things and stuff, it's not like
they seem like this rich family. If he didn't have
a good lawyer, that wasn't going to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Yeah, and you can't reward a person for aiding and
a bedding no a crime.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
I mean I totally get that, but still, yeah, holy
ship balls.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Was fucked up.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
It's pretty fuck great job telling it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
I mean, as I was reading it, I went back
and forth and back and forth because it's like, I
don't I don't want to continually ignore those stories that
seem to be like they they they seem to be
problematic in and of themselves, but they do need to
get talked about. And there are the stories that, like
I think we try to do the outer edges of

(01:12:25):
these are the crazy, these are the crazy crime stories.
But these are actually just the tragic standard, you know,
injustice based type of stories.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
Yeah, and if you want to, I feel like that
a crime epidemic, I mean the crack epidemic thing is like,
look the way look at the way this opioid epidemic
is being handled, which is mainly white people, versus the
way that crack epidemic was handled. Yes, and you'll see
how big of a difference you're you're treated depending on

(01:12:57):
your race. That's where people are going to prison for
dealing with opioids. People are getting you know, rehab and
being constantly treated with kid gloves for the opioid crisis,
which is awful.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
I completely agree.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
But yeah, there was never an article in like the
New York Times about how do we help these people
with the crack pandemic.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
It was just send them to prison and look at
these crack addicted.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
It's a perfect dehumanizing tool, and everybody felt most most people,
white people fell for it or just bought that storyline.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
Yeah, yeah, well, great job, thank you should be too
a fucking hooray.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
Yeah, next the time, I know mine, Okay, I just
keep touching my elbow.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Broken now, my broken elbow.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
It's fucking. The new season of Shit's Creek has come out,
Your Baby, My baby. I watched it. I accidentally woke
up at five point thirty, which I do sometimes, God,
and then I remembered that it had come out, and
I watched it. I think I watched all of it,
at least like almost all of it before work, and
then I came home and finished it. And it's just

(01:14:06):
as beautiful and hilarious and great as it was last time,
even more so. And it's just if you haven't gotten
into Shit's Creek, it's a little diamond waiting for you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
I'm excited to watch it on. I love that it's
waiting there for me. Oh and I got a sweatshirt.
Do you have you watched it?

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
No? Okay, they say there's this there's a family store
that they open. Oh you got a sweatshirt. It's called
roses Apothecary. And I got sent a sweatshirt. O. And
I was just so excited.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
You weren't it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
I want people to like to call it out. No,
because it just turned cold like yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
That's true. So by like seventy two.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Yeah, exactly. Light wind kicked up yesterday. I had so
my fucking hoorray. I woke up the other day.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
Late and late in the morning like I do, and
I had this and I did the whole like, God,
you got to wake up earlier and get more shit done.
And I had this epiphany that I I like one
out of ten effort. I'm I consistently work at like
a six, a good six, and considering my life, that's

(01:15:09):
gone pretty well. But I would think, but my new
thing is that I want to just put one extra
point of effort into my life. And that made it
kind of all seem doableh in this like all you
have to do is walk for half? Like what is
what is the one point of effort more than what
you're doing right now? Yes, don't start drinking at five,

(01:15:29):
start drinking at eight, take tonight off or yeah, go
for a walk? Is the one point of extra effort?
Don't flake today on this thing. It's like that's good.
So I'm doing that, and I'm thinking that that might
help some people too, because I'm always like, you have
to be a ten.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
If you're not a ten, you're not fucking good enough.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
That's the that's the trick of perfectionism, right is if
you're not perfect, fuck it right, which is the which
is deadly. Yeah, you know, it's so funny. It's very
true because since I started swimming and it was very
difficult for me to not be able to brag about swimming.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
Is an extra two points, you get another and.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Once you do that, you fold in this effort then
all the the rest of the day. Like, the hardest
thing about writing in a room is that there's literally
a table filled with all the good stuff from Trader
Joe's that just sits behind me all day. Tell me what,
oh the well, there's every type of chip like we have.

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
There's just like a ship light. Yes, oh I'm glad.
I'm so glad about a TV writer.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
It's because you sit there thinking and while you're thinking,
you think you can't think of anything, so you eat
ship totally. Or like there's just like a big that
new quote shareable bag of eminem's. There's all kinds of things.
My thing is I did my I already did my thing.
It makes me feel really good. Now I'm just gonna like,
I've drink some tea and try to graze.

Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
That's great. Yeah, because you don't want to. You don't
want to what's the word like sabotage. Yes, you know
what desabotage.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
Desabotage my swimming effort.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
So that's yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
So I look at it and it's like, I don't
ever have to be a ten me as a six
or seven has done pretty fucking good in her life.
But then I have a good and happy life. If
I give it half or one point of effort more,
how great would that be?

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
Exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
So I'm going to do that. That's great. I don't
know what to call it yet.

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
One point more, one point more, one point extra extra effort,
one point of extra effort.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
It falls off the tongue. It just falls face first,
off the tongue.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
It's perfect. So I think that's great. It's also because
you know that I believe the Japanese have a thing
called kaizen and that's just small improvements daily and it's
essentially like you'd like, it's exactly what you're saying, which
is you don't have to be the perfect consummate housewife.
Just do the dishes like real time. Yeah, yeah, that's

(01:17:53):
my thing. My dad all growing up, my dad would
always go clean as you go clean as you go,
and I never do it. I just things pile up. Yeah,
and lately I've been cleaning as I go.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
Yeah, that's too with our lives. Let's clean our lives
as we go.

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):
Let's clean as we go. It feels better. Also, new
season is Someone Knows Something is really good. Also if
you're sick of listening about murder all the time, but
you still have true crime and which I'm listening with
Vince now because he doesn't like murder, right, but we
are listening to Last Scene podcast, which I also found
in Boston.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
Seen SCN Last.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
Scene se N like the last time I saw something.

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
Last Scene is a podcast from the Boston Globe about
the twenty eight year unsolved art heist of Boston's Illabella
Stewart Gardner Museums. Yes, fucking good, and it's true crime,
but it's not murder, which is great.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
I think I looked that story up.

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
That's how I found it. When we're in a town,
we're like, what murder? Can I see you loo up
all these crimes?

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
Yeah? And I found Last Scene and I'm like that
one's great? Was that the one where they were dressed
like cops?

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
They broke into musing their dressed like cops. There's some
great characters in it. I fucking highly recommend this podcast
that just sounds really good and of course someone knows
something which is immediately making me cry. Already hosted by
hot Canadian Lumberjack with all the empathy David ridgeon.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
With the great with just a great voice.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
We got great cadence and you just.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
Want to be there with him while he discovers things.

Speaker 2 (01:19:14):
Yeah, he's great. New season. I love it. Oh it
was not. We're not getting paid even No, David, you
ow us money.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
David, we fully support you. And also, can I just
say this, this is from this is leftover long ago,
but at the London show that we did in May,
so long ago. Now, I did Jack the Ripper and
had kind of an emotional meltdown. While I had it,
didn't really realize what a bad idea that would be.

(01:19:41):
It was great, it was fine, but it was one
of those bad It was just a bad feeling area
and then it was but it was a great show
and we met great people at that meet and greet
was epic. Every person we met at the London Meet
and greet was one more fascinating character that's where the
Italians were. Oh yeah, and all kinds of people. Anyway,

(01:20:02):
a woman and I'm sorry, I don't have your name.
You recommended the book to me. They all love Jack
and it is the best. I've been listening to it
on audiobooks since she recommended it because it is so
dense and it's the guy. I don't look it up?
Can you look it up, Stephen? Sorry, they don't. They
all love Jack. It's the Jack the Ripper and it's

(01:20:24):
written by the guy who wrote the movie with Nail
and I, that brilliant movie. It's an eighties like cult
movie and it is one of my favorite movies of
all time. It's about two actors that are totally on
drugs that try to leave London and just get out
into the country for the weekend, and it's beyond hilarious.

(01:20:44):
So Bruce Robinson, Bruce Robinson is the writer of the
movie with Nail and I, and he has written this
scathing expose about ripperology and the bullshit that has been
put out and what the truth of like who Jack
the Ripper was. And I've been listening to it on
and off because it's so dense and the writing is

(01:21:06):
so good like he was. He quotes somebody and he
says like it's somebody, He's somebody that's telling a lie
and covering something up.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
And so he does the thing and he.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
Writes blah blah blah and say the guy's name is
Dan Smith, and he goes blah blah blah blah, Dan
Smith's shit mouth Like it's writing like that where I
can I keep going back and re listening to whole
chunks because the writing is unbelievably are.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
We just having a conversation right now?

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
He's being he is such a bit about like how
basically over the years where Prodigy has been taken the
lies that have been put out and just gone.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
Yes a dramatic and and just adding on and adding
on bullshit like Halloween fucking candy poison.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
It's a total Halloween candy poisoning situation. Meanwhile, Bruce Robinson
goes in and does the research and is like, it's
blatantly obvious what the situation is. I highly again, they
all love Jack by Bruce Robinson. I recommend you do
it on audio because the guy that reads the audiobook
is so talented and does thoes ins and out in

(01:22:12):
and out of voices. It's great and anyway, thank you
to the person. Please email if you are the person
who recommended that book to me so I can say
your name, because it was it was such a great recommendation.
But it's the kind of thing that, like a year later,
I'm like, I finally read it, I finally listen to it.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
We get a lot of really good recommendations and gifts. Yeah,
and every in life. Yes, Life tweeted us what your
what your one point extra would be?

Speaker 1 (01:22:39):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
Nice?

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
Maybe right? Like my one point extra is that I
will do the dishes as they come. Sure that kind
of that's not mine.

Speaker 2 (01:22:46):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:22:46):
The example is example as clean as you go or yeah, whatever,
drinking more hot tea. Remember tea is a medicine.

Speaker 3 (01:22:54):
Yeah, and add some vodka if you're me jesus, I say,
like an alcoholic this episode, I'm really not.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
Also, if you're gonna add anything to a hot drink.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
Don't let it be vodka.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
I don't know why you keep saying that rum rum
and maybe malibu coconut rum. We're not also not getting
paid by them.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
We should we? Hey, thanks for listening things.

Speaker 3 (01:23:14):
It's even for editing so much shit out you guys
don't even understand how much shit.

Speaker 1 (01:23:18):
He even's doing his work tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
And then finding names that we can't remember all the stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
I mean, we always need you to do that soon
and that's kind of a standard. I now don't even
attempt to look things up. I'm just like just kind
of look over my shoulder.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
Thanks for listening. You guys are the fucking mess.

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
You guys, really so many great things are happening in
our lives. Get We say this all the time at
the live shows, but yeah, we mean it to you
guys too at home don't go to live shows and
maybe aren't even interested. We really feel very very grateful
for all the things that we have because of the
way that this show exploded. It's super nuts. Our lives
are nuts because of it. Yeah, but in the best

(01:23:58):
possible way. We're just very very grateful.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
So thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:24:01):
We're grateful that you guys have found each other and
started this community and we just get to be peripherally
part of it and enjoy it and hear stories about it,
your stories and see you guys make connections and raise
money for good causes and you know, find yourselves and
go to therapy and get tattoos, cool and get and
have art that gets made, and we're just lucky to

(01:24:23):
be part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
We really appreciate it, and it's very cool to be
part of the podcast The Wave of the Future, which
is podcasting. Everyone knows it, everyone knows it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:32):
Get on board, listen, stay sexy, and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
You want a cookie.