150 - How Dare You Kelli

Karen and Georgia cover the hanging of Alice Riley and the murder of Reyna Marroquín.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Last and hello. I was gonna say and welcome. Oh,
well you got you got to clue me in on that.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're right, we should I should have written a que card.
Let's do it again and welcome. Oh that was great,
that's fun. This is my favorite murder. We're a true
crime comedy podcast coming to you live.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
That's right from Los Angeles, California. What that's Karen Kilgaraf
And that's Georgia hard Stark.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
And we've got Stephen Ray Morris on the ones and twos.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
That's right, holding it down for us. That's right. We're
in the pod loft again. I got some feedback that
if we you know, we got to record Elvis doing
his cookie mew, if we're going to be recording in
the office. I totally forgot about that.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Oh was there No, there was none because at the
minute we hack anything.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, I just didn't think about it. Steven, you're fired.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Those are real twister Roos sentence. I didn't see the ending.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
It started with an eye and it ended with a U.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
It did.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
But we are in the pod loft right now, and
it's a fucking lovely rainy night in la Oh my god,
it actually is beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
It started raining this afternoon, and usually in LA it
starts stops, it rains just long enough for your car
to look dirtier than it did in the morning. But
not now we're straight We're in straight up Portland, Oregon
style rain.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
I love it so much.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
I love it except for and sorry, this is the
happiest thing to go into. But people can't drive in
the rainy now they're.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Just like they drive. I think I realized that they
drive the way they drive in the not rain, and
that's the problem.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yes, no one canna juke. Go down, you fucking idiots.
Things have Your atmosphere has changed. Look and listen. Listen
to rain, you stupid, you fucking ah. It's very This
is the kind of town though where it's it's a
town filled with people who will not adjust to reality.

(02:13):
It's part of living here is living here and being like,
I'm the greatest actor ever and it's like, Okay, you
better dig all the way into that because you're gonna
need to hold onto it.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
For twenty eight years, I was the prettiest girl at
my high school and I still am. And just single tear,
single tear. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
So there's a lot of like driving through the rain.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
I'm not in the rain.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
I'm not in the rain. I'm the prettiest girl from
my high school. You're like, all right, all right, get
out of here, Kelly, Kelly, God damn it, it's how dairy, Kelly, Kelly,
You're still pretty, but it's raining.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeh, Kelly with an eye?

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Quit it, Kelly, it's you know what, you can put
the eye. But we know your mother named you with
the watch. That's right, so do what you want. We're
not buying it, but when we don't have to buy it, yeah,
Or any of your acting, that's right.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Guess what what?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Just act like you talk normally. Try to convince people
that you're not acting. That's the you know what, they're acting.
That's the acting class that I'm in charge one thousand
dollars a week for just talking to talk normal and then'
like they're you're acting?

Speaker 1 (03:20):
There, I say, you're acting. What is it about getting
in front of a camera that makes you, including me,
I'm not an actor insane?

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Well, you know, it brings out all your insecurity where
it's like the second you're there, you're like, oh, I
shouldn't be here. I mean, I'm the worst I am
anybody that gives me a part, I'm the worst. I
immediately forget all my lines and all all my brain
will say is I shouldn't be here.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
I'm a fraud. They're going to figure me out this.
I'm not good enough.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
And can you see this strange hatchet like line in
my forehead?

Speaker 1 (03:53):
And is that what you're really focusing online is don't
do that with your mouth. Don't do that thing with
your mouth. You do this weird thing with your mouth.
Staff doing that thing with your mouth? What do you
do with your mouth?

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (04:02):
I just I had this. I don't know. My mouth
is just complicated.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Because you know what I do when I'm nervous, and
I hold my lips together like I'm just trying to
keep my mouth shut, which is so symbolical. That's really
what If I'm truly nervous, it's I'm holding my.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Lips together like the lips go on camera. Don't say it.
She's trying not to have an outburst. Okay, so it's
like it looks.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Like I'm but really I'm just like, don't say anything, Please,
don't say anything, say something stupid. I've been begging my
mouth not to say something. Stupid all my life. It
won't listen.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
I've been trying to look normal and not like a
weird person my whole life. So I used to have
to go to speech therapy because I would sit there
when I was a kid, like, I have my lips
parted all the time, and so I'd have to be
reminded to close my lips and sometimes my tongue would
just kind of hang Instagram like this like this, I

(04:57):
sent you a photo of me with a cello and
it's like that. So I've been reminding myself not to
fucking do that. Georgia, that's just a lack of self
consciousness though.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
That's what kids are like, where you're just kind of
like hanging out and you don't you don't, aren't aware
of yourself.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
And then suddenly a teacher's like, you got you got
to not do that anymore. Go to speech therapy. It's
really embarrassing. We're gonna stop you in class once a
week and make you go see fucking speech therapist.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
But so that was just kind of like keep your
tongue where you're supposed to keep it.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, but I also have a lisp, so I think
try to change that. That didn't go away. That's fine.
This is not heither and near and there, either near
nor there.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
I'm trying to think of what I Yeah, mine was
always just just.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Be pleased to be quiet, Please be quiet. Your speech
therapy is shut the fuckers when no one needs to
hear it.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
And I'd be like, look it, I don't want to
be saying it either.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
You're not the teacher.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
I understand. I don't want to be talking. It's my
mouth that's doing it.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
It's not me.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
And what I realized much much later, like when I
was in my late thirties, is that was anxiety. That
was social anxiety. And the way I dealt with it, well,
I never knew that that's what it was. I thought,
I have the worst personality. I better start drinking.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
That'll make me quiet.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, and it worked. It worked for so many years.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Because only because you don't remember what you were said.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I'd be like, and maymore c yeah, bursts or whatever.
That was great when she did it.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Hey, speaking of merchant there she is merchandise Jones. That's right.
If you go to my favorite murder dot com, there's
our store. There's a holiday we have holiday items. If
to order by December fourteenth. What's today's day. It'll be
the sixth March today. You can get your Christmas and

(06:46):
Hanakhah and holiday shit. Now some of that stuff sold out.
It's they have it back in stock. And I just
want to say to all of the Jews, you guys,
I'm so proud of us. I'm lakaim to us. I'm
so proud of us. We sold the fucking Honicah shirt out. Yeah,
the the high end bitches. Of course, I didn't know.
I just like was like, I just we need.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
To throw it up there. And then it was the
best idea. You're very merch savvy. But then also it
was the kind of thing of like, yeah, you don't
you should get some fun. It's like ugly Christmas sweaters
and then it's like, and how about just a sassy
passover sweater.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Well, it reminds me. It reminds me of you know,
as a Georgia you'd go as a kid, you'd go
to the souvenir store and there wouldn't be a license
a tiny license plate with my name on it. And
you know, I never had that stuff. It's the same
thing with being Jewish, as you there's never Honkah stuff, right,
always Christmas stuff and except for the one time that
Urban Outfitters did that. Remember they did like I love

(07:44):
being a Jew, but they put like money symbols around. No,
they did, or they have like kiss me, I'm Irish,
and there was like a Jewish one too, and they
had to pull it because it was like stars of
David's and like and like raidles and shit, but there
were also money symbols. I saw your two God, I
will have Stephen fucking post on the instagram CRUs Stephen
posts photos from the episode on the instagram My murder.

(08:06):
They had to pull it, you stupid fucking idiots. Jesus,
We'll see. That's that, you know. It's that's so I
realized we're serving a knee that doesn't exist. Yeah, that's right,
you know.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, and it's I think probably most Jewish people have
just gotten used to it. It's like, don't want that
because he isn't there. So then finally you're like, hey,
but it is, yeah, but it is there, and then
it's like, what I is really proud of us? It's
great as a people.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
Yeah, is it this? Everyone loves a Jewish girl.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yes, they had a whole line of everyone loves an
Irish girl, everyone loves a whatever the heck girl?

Speaker 2 (08:41):
My god, right, is that a purse? Oh that's a
Dradel Sorry Dradle's. I didn't realize Dradel's had the thing
on the top.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
It's like a spinning It's like a top that's for
the spinny's part.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Okay, so they have the Dradle upside down because the
spin doll.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Right, that's why I thought it was a purse. I
thought that was hand. No, this a little bump on
the top. That's not a Dradle.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
So it's purses and money. There's literally money symbols on
this so crazy. That looks like a dice with a handle.
That's not a drad Ale. Now is everyone loves an
Irish girl. It's that's surrounded by beers and potatoes and
fucking cellulite and it's just uh yeah, a coldness yelling.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
It's hard to draw that ship.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
They had to recall that shaw, which I think is
pretty fucking fabulous.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, because now it's all just heart. They changed it
to all hearts, Like you can leave.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
The Jewish stars, dude, let's take off. There aren't even
Jewish stars, though as a as a poor Jew, I
was also offended by that too, as a Jewish girl
who grew up poor, It's like, that's not it's a stereotype, right.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Well, but as a Jewish girl that grew up poor,
why don't you admit that you wanted money?

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Who the fuck doesn't want money? I wish I was
a rich I was a rich Jew. I mean.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
But here's that's the other thing too, is who doesn't
want money? To any Lithuanians want money any that's a
nationality as opposed to a religion. Book speaking of anyway,
by our merch because there's they're very little, my favorite.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Murder dot com. There's your store, have fun with it.
There's also a ton of other shit. I've been wearing
the fuck out of my fuck you I'm married sweatpants.
Yeah you have, and I realized it's not fair we
should get fuck you I'm divorced for you because it's
the same thing I'd rather not why because I think

(10:46):
it's perfect.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Well, the fuck you I married came out of joke, Yes,
so I don't need It's.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Just I can wear whatever i want because i'm married, exactly,
you can wear whatever you want because you're fucking divorced.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, but see that's not a funny joke because that's
tragic where it's like, fuck you, I'm divorced and in
a deep depression and I've been wearing sweats for seven years. Okay,
it's too real. We have to if we're if we're
gonna do divorced merch, it's gonna we have to do
something where it's lighter and it's positive.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Okay, Like but see.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Then we're just going into the I'm fifty area where
it's just like celebrate.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Mommy culture, mommy culture.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, that's basically it's been covered by like it's wine o'clock.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
That's basically your divorce merch.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
I want to I'm alone and in my addiction, join
me has that's good merch, right, and then a little lighthouse.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Oh yeah, I love that. Okay, let's do it.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Uh, how about something along the lines of like, hey,
leave me alone, I'm isolating.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
There is a shirt that says, uh, sorry, I'm late.
I didn't want to come, And every time I see it,
I think of you so much that I just want
to get you. You might as well, I know, but
I don't need the shirt because it come right out
of my mouth.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, hey, I hate being here. Yeah, so I'm gonna
go ahead and go. I saw a cartoon.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Oh, I gotta figure out who was by that said
there's two girls walking into a party, and one girl's
going I can't wait to leave this party later. I'm
so excited to leave this party. Yeah. Oh god, hold.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
On one second, let me I actually know who that person.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Oh, who is it?

Speaker 4 (12:25):
I went to UCSB with him. It's my friend Hillary.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Campbell cartoons and what's her Instagram?

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Cartoons by Hillary?

Speaker 1 (12:30):
That's nice. I love that she.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
Went to the I think she went to the New
York Show.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, she's good. I love her Instagram. I can't wait
to leave this party later. Excited to leave this party later.
That's god, damn it, that's my life. I'm sure I'm
misquoting it. Can I have a thing real quick on
a down or note? No, it's actually a I mean
it's positive. So last week, I, at the end of
the show talked about my incredible therapist Kim, who passed

(12:54):
away secondly and unexpectedly, and uh, then I this fucking podcast, man,
like the levels of amazement that happens that has happened
and has been happening for the past three fucking years,
is insane. I get an email. It's from a family
member of hers who was like, I was listening to
the podcast and I had a fucking pull over because
the minute you said, Kim, I realized you're talking about

(13:17):
my family. I don't want to ask. Yeah, yeah, my
family member. And it meant so much to us. She
played it for Kim's parents, who who said thank you
for you know, because I wasn't able to tell Kim
how much she meant to me, but her parents don't know. Wow,
that's amazing. Yeah, And it's just this it's such a
huge this podcast, like the connections it's making with other

(13:38):
people getting together with us and other people, it's just incredible.
And it's just I didn't think that would happen, and it,
you know, it wouldn't have happened without this podcast, and
it just kind of it gave me this little little
light of you know, hope in this kind of depression.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, because it matters, you know, it matters, and expressing
how you feel about people and how people matter to
you and that the people that you value people, it's
super important to express that and I guess we're getting
this weird version of it where it's like, oh my god,
someone heard it and cared.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
But it's in your day.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
To day life. It's you might as well just do it.
It's it's important thing to do because you may feel like, oh,
this makes me so vulnerable or I'm at this risk
or whatever. But if you can figure out a way
to express how you feel to people real time while
they're aware of it, they might really need it. It
could really matter. It's a good idea. And also it's
just like it's a good practice to practice kind of

(14:37):
being brave about just going like, well that's just.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
How I feel vulnerability. That's the key with you know.
Of course, please read Brene Browns Darren greatly as I
don't think Karen and I would This wouldn't exist without her, No,
it wouldn't. Yeah, this podcast, we wouldn't be friends without her.
I feel like because we bonded over the fact we
were both in the middle of it and the thing
was be vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
So yes, which is one of our I think that
bonded us so fast because it was that thing of
like it's so hard just to be at a party
filled with people that we're all friends with, and we're
still so uncomfortable, and it's like, but let's be sort
of going, Okay, let's go around the room and say
what was it ways that.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
We're Vulnerablet's say one thing. It was Thanksgiving, And I said,
let's say one thing we're vulnera about in a room
full of fucking male comedimics. And that's the only reason
I did that is because I can't eat in silence.
That's like one of my old fucking eating things. That's
the only thing that stuck around is I can't just
quietly masticate. Yes. So it was like, okay, can we
all fucking talk please and stop chewing, and let's all

(15:37):
say one thing we're vulnerab about. And you were like,
are you reading Darren greatly? Yeah, yes I am.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
It was the best because and it's the kind of
thing of I love stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
I love really.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Talking about stuff, and I think, let's not have small talk. Yes,
let's not have small talk.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Let's not riff.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
It's like I've been in a culture, a comedy culture
for so long where sincerity was the worst thing you
could do.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
It made it put a target on your back.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
It made you weak, it made you stupid, blah blah blah,
and it's like, and that's just so old. It's very
ninety mentality, where it's just like, actually, it's very cool.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
It's too cool. It's been too cool, right, like right,
unless you give a shit them more cool you are,
which is just a mask.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
It's so obvious now, And I also think that's a
part of being young, but yeah, that's true. Now that
I'm middle aged, I'm just like, oh, yeah, I don't
care anymore. I don't give a fuck if you think
I'm cool or not. I don't give a fuck if
you like the music. I like, I'm not here for
that anymore. I did that already, and I suffered through
that already, And now I'm just kind of like, what's cool? Like,
what could happen if I actually am my real self

(16:40):
totally and don't hold my.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Lips together and let those lips fly.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
I've been letting these lips fly on this podcast for
three years.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
It's been pretty nice. It's proven your point wrong that
you should keep your mouth shut.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Probably. Now we just have to teach my lips. Okay,
do you have anything else?

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Uh? I don't think so. Although I apologize because I'm
not sure. I'm now at the end of my full
time job, so I'm a little.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Out of my mind.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Your other full time job, yeah, the other, the additional
one that I chose to take on as some sort
of way of proving to the world that.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
You're not a failure. Yes, exactly, I can do things.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
No one believes that yet, so I still have to
continue to prove I can do things.

Speaker 5 (17:29):
Job.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah, so we believe you, now, do you? Or should
I get another job?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Because I was gonna work Macy's Christmas chiefts just.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
You're gonna be the wrapping paper station. I would actually
fucking love you got a wrapping paper, wrapping gifts.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Oh my god, are you well? This could have been
a trick of my mom's because she would go, you're
so good at rapping, so smart, and then I would
I'd be like, I'm really good at rapping, and I
wrap everything. And it took me to like a year
after she died, where I was like, she tricked me.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
After wrapping everything. You did a great trick, such a
good psyche.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
So yeah, if you have children that need encouragement, so
good at the dishes, you're oh my God, why are
you so good at that? But here's here's what that
bread And this was my favorite thing. I used to
do this thing at my parents' house. I would take
down all the pictures on the walls and wrap them
like presents and hang them back up.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
And that was part of our Christmas decoration. That's darling,
especially because don't look at your family's stupid faces anymore.
But that's just lovely.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
So it would be like instead of because my everything
in my parents' house is like a picture of a
huge fire.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
My dad fought. That's like part of bought, fought, fought.
Whoa There was.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
A fire in like a South market in San Francisco
in the eighties nineties where it burned down like seven
blocks of this neighborhood and he fought it and they
fought it all night.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
And so there's a picture of him, like a huge one.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
It's a panoramic Karen picture.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
How did this not? This fucked you up? How did
I not know that you had fires? Pictures of fires? Yes,
that had to just give you a level of anxiety
all like a cont that is crazy, you see that.
That's bananas right, It's like having a fucking huge painting
of a fucking shark like eating a person and then

(19:16):
being like, hey, here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, it's like it's almost like it was just this
subconscious That's why I'm always like, let's make sure we've
always got two exits. Yeah, like crap, like right now, well,
we could go out this window, but if there was
a fire downstairs, we could get.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Trapped up here. No, no, we can go out this window.
We can go out this window. Yeah, it's yeah landing,
it's a walkable Yeah. Why honey, Ye not honey, that
sounded shitty. Honey. I'm very I'm very aware of exits
at all time and how I would get out or
how people can come in them yet more so probably, Yeah,
but not for the same reason. Right if we had
a giant picture of a burglar as a kid sneaking

(19:55):
into the house, so it was someone Janet arrested a
close time, I don't think it sucked me up or anything.
I think I'm fine. I'm fine. It's so larious.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
I've never thought of this at all. Yeah, that's like
red flag just city. Don't expose your children to horror scenes?
Is this thing of my mother? I remember my mom
telling me at a young Andrew, She's like, I think
your father and I the marriage lasted for so long
because every time he left the house he could have died.
So every time he came back, she was so grateful

(20:27):
and like it was like, oh yay, nothing bad happened
to him.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
I have that too, but only because I have bad
anxiety that every time Vince leaves the house, I'm like careful,
Like even just when he was leaving to now, I
was like, where's the belt? Be careful? Like be careful?

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Course, Yeah, but that is you have to Part of
that might be anxiety, and then part of it is
you get to express like I want you to stick around.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
That's good. Yeah, that's a good You guys have a
healthier relationship in that way. I think so too. I
think it's nice.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Therapists thinks so too, do they? Oh yeah, yeah, it's true,
he does. You're not being sard, no, I mean, I'm
pretty sorry. We're his favorite.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
I really do. And sometimes he'll say, do you ever
want to leave this guy? I'll marry him. He's not gay,
but he loves Vince.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Well. Vince has that thing, and I know it can
be irritating because he is kind of like the Homecoming King.
Everyone loves that fucking guy I know loves me too.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
No, no, no, everyone loves you. So we're great together.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
But he has that thing where like suddenly he's running
the bar. He's that guy I know where he handles
shit and he's like who needs a drink? And he's
that he's like the consummate, Like he makes it so
that people love him.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Sit down as soon as possible.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, you were like first date, you're with me. It's
crappening love it. Yeah, all right, bye, you guys.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
What Wow? Forty five minutes of just pure not what
this podcast is about.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
But you know, we haven't had that much time to
like just get into what's really going on with us.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Oh you're like this and announce that I would. I
was just going to announce something, and now I feel
weird to do it. Fucking one of the most downloaded
podcasts of twenty eighteen on fucking iTunes. Did you see that?
Is us? So sorry Rogan. Congratulations, Joe Rogan.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
You've done great. No, no, I thought for a second,
I thought you meant this podcast will.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Kill you because oh we got to give a shout
to all exactly right, people are real quick. Yes, oh
my god, everyone's killing it. Yes, exactly right. I mean
that's our podcast network. We just came out with a
bunch the This podcast will Kill You has an episode
about rabies that I was listening to last night. That's
so fucking good, and they are killing killing it. The
following is incredible. The new season is amazing about all
these uh these babies that were fucking kidnapped in Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Of course, the per cast everybody, we got the official
numbers and like the business side and everyone's like went
so far beyond the what they projected. Yeah, and everyone
charted and it was such a beautiful debut. Thank you
guys so much for listening, for downloading. That's the way,
just so you know, if you want to like make

(23:08):
that hit is when you download podcasts. That's that's Those
are the numbers that people pay attention to.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 5 (23:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Also when you review, when you write a little like
love it five stars, like that really helps too. Yeah,
so if you want to do that, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
And thank you all for there was so much support
and you guys went to all those new episodes.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Also season season one, episode two do you need to ride?

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Right? You're charting the shit out of that, dominating the
comedy chart.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
It's so exciting because Chris and I have been so
low key, like we're like, should we do another episode?
We've been so like trying to trying to focus on it,
but trying to do a bunch obviously a bunch of
other stuff too. Chris is like on the road doing
tons of performing or whatever, so we're just like, should
we do one And the idea that when we finally
get it together and put it out, all these people

(23:58):
are just like I've been waiting. God damn, you guys
put these out consistently and like, oh we we spent
years and years thinking no one really cares?

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Who cares?

Speaker 2 (24:07):
And so it's it's so lovely and yeah, thank you
guys so much for all of that support.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
That's what I thought you were talking about. Love it No.
iTunes just came out with the best of twenty eighteen
and you click on that fucking most downloaded and we're
on that with a bunch of a bunch of other
fucking incredible people, probably Joe Rogan, including definitely Joe Rogan.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
A doctor death is on their tip, which is like
I just have a real connection because that that podcast
got under my skin. Yeah, in so many ways. It's
such a good podcast.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
But they don't need shout outs. They're all they're downloaded,
they're great, we're all fine. Our friend, Oh yes, that's right. Uh,
stuff you should know, stuff you should know.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
I was going to say, how did this get made?
Which is another great podcast, but it's stuff you should know.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, Shack, of course you should know our friend. The
congratulations guys and pr cereal it's all those one you know,
so thank you, obvious, and then some of the fun
ones that you're like, oh, that's so cool that we're
part of that Pots of America obviously. Then to just
be on that with them.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
It's a huge honor, and it's a it's you guys.
You know, it's you guys making it happen, downloading that ship.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
So thank you, Thanks guys, And we have more.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
We're so excited for the new podcasts that we're going
to be adding to the slate. So it's like we're
going to be adding and adding, so just get ready
because we've got a bunch more coming that we're so
excited and that you are going to be very excited
about the promise and we're teasing you.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah, all right, I can't talk about it. We can't
talk about it. I think here first, really, yeah, right,
is it true?

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Steven? Luckily, so I opened my file. I actually started
a file called Unread Murders that I have.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
I should have done that a long second time.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Ago, and it's it's a lot of them. As I
said before, because there was the the todd Ellen Reid
that I did, let the the Force part Killer that
I did last time was a leftover from a Portland
where I was.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Like, oh right, I gotta do that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
So there I'd been doing a couple of those where
I'm like, just move that over into this area and
you'll use it later when you have seven full time
jobs and you can't actually do the show that you
should be actually paying attention to.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
So this is one of those from when we were
in Atlanta on tour, and I had this one already,
but it was just kind of short and pretty basic
and it's really old, so there's not a ton of information, right.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
But right, So today at.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Four o'clock, when I was at Baskets in the writer's
room where we're in like serious rewrites, and then I
just went, oh my god, I don't know if I have.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
A story for tonight.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
And then I look that one up and then had
to text Steven and go.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Have I done this?

Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (26:54):
I've done that multiple times.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Because I was like I was looking at looking at
the words and going this sa app Yeah it's familiar,
but it's because I'm the one that put it on paper. Anyway,
I'm right on the edge of mental collapse. And here
we go. This is the first murder to happen in
the state of Georgia back in the seventeen hundred got

(27:22):
and this is the story of Alice Riley.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Okay, it's so old.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
And weird and random in all these different ways that yeah,
it's so crazy. So I just tell you some things. Okay,
let's see what happened. Okay, do it. Alice Riley was
born around seventeen eighteen in Ireland. You've been there, yep.

(27:49):
In seventeen thirty three, she was fifteen years old. This
is when everyone's everybody's trying to leave Ireland because of
disease and the famine that the British actually forced. People
love to talk about, Oh, the potato famine. When no
one could grow potatoes.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Huh huh uh. They grew potatoes, They grew them, and
they weren't taken.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
The British came in, shipped all that food out, starved
everybody out got organization. So, but the only way to
get out of Ireland if you didn't have money yourself,
was you had your fair paid by someone who would
then employ you when you got to America or the
New World or whatever it.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Was back in the seventy. Now you know you've been there.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
You know, you historians know what I'm talking about, and
no one else does. So a man named William Wise
paid her five dollars boat fair.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
How much was it back then?

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Five dollars into day's Yes, the amount of a carnival
cruise three thousand dollars. But without that beautiful buffet. Yeah,
there's no buffet on her boat. Yeah, she just got
to throw up under a deck. No ziplining, there is snow.
There wasn't one of those weird small but deep pools.

Speaker 4 (29:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Have you ever seen a cruise ship. I've never been
on a cruise ship. Oh girl, are they horrible?

Speaker 2 (29:08):
No, No, there's but you can only have I mean,
I'm not talking about the Zipline carnival cruises where now
they're making them like cities, floating cities. But like the
last time I was on a cruise there in the
pool area, it's the pool is like ten feet long,
but then it's like thirty five feet deep. It's like
it's like, oh, if we can't fit them all in here,

(29:29):
go down there, just go down low. So anyway, a
man named William Wise paid for her five dollars boat fare,
and that meant that she would be his indentured servant
for seven years.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
What could go wrong? Right?

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I mean that's like, oh, that's okay, So I have
a chance to at least I'm leaving this place where
the British are trying to colonize us. I'll go to
America and just be an indentured servant and that'll be great.
So on the boat, she's either already traveling with her
common law husband, rich White, which is the boring and
unlikely version, since she was fifteen and you're common law

(30:08):
by living together for seven years. So unless she shocked
up with Richard when she was eight, it seems like
the better option, the more romantic and cinematic option, is
that she met Richard White on the boat. Let's go
with it, right, So she throws up over the side,
comes up, wipes her mouth off on her shawl, turns
and there's this beautiful irishman standing next to her, and

(30:29):
she's like, I'm going over there. Somebody paid my five dollars.
I'm going to be an indentured servant. He's like me too,
Oh my god, what's your guys's name? He's also there
to work for William Ware No way, Yes, so that's
also an indicator that it makes more sense that they
would have been a couple and then going to work
for the same person.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
But I don't like that version of the story.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, it's not as fun. No, anyway, it's all vague
and we can.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Fill on our own in the reright, Can I have rewrites? Well,
let's hear one. Well, can we go with like they
were they weren't working for the same guy, they were
like neighbor, gonna be like working for neighbors, because like,
it's too much if it's like they were working for
the same guy. Yeah. True.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
So it's like what if the estates are on the
same wooded path and then she's walking, Yes, she's got
her bucket of berries, and then here comes I don't know,
achillean Murphy type, and then she's just like, what's up,
what's up on your estate?

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (31:27):
And he's like, God, you look so much better off
the boat.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
I love it. You're not barfing anymore, sea sick and
gray faced. All right.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
So here's the amazing part, and this is true and
real and still very cinematic. The ship that they are
both on crashes into Savannah. So remember when we were
in in Georgia, like Atlanta. Savannah's right on the coast,
and so basically this ship they're like, oh, this has

(32:01):
been the worst and.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
I have the worst seasickness, and then it just crashed.
I forget to put the brakes on and the land
out like everybody want to sleep. I just did one
of those like cartoons that are like that showed like
the boat crashing, you know, like the map they show
the map, yes, and it goes along.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
There's a sea monster. They crash right into Savannah. It's
a cold winter night. Most of the passenger passengers on
board drowned. Shit, and Alice Riley and her new hot boyfriend, uh,
what's his name? Richard White they both survived. They swim

(32:36):
to shore and they make it. Uh so they bond
over that. Sure, and so if they weren't in love before,
God damn it, wouldn't you love that map?

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Absolutely? It also survived because it's.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
A good sign his jeans anyway, So they dragged themselves
from the wreckage.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
They're brought to.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
William Wise's cattle farm on Hutchinson Island, which is across
from the city Savannah, and uh there, so William Wise
they meet. They meet William Wise. Okay, there, how's it going? Uh?

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Not great?

Speaker 2 (33:11):
He's known as a scally wag. Who isn't in the
seventeen hundred seventeen hundreds, it's anybody, anybody.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
With his uh two launch shops. Yea, like, look at
that fuck in scalliwag. But this guy's a cree.

Speaker 4 (33:27):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
So she's dreading being a maid anyway because she's like, oh,
I'm going to be a maid for seven years not
you know.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
It's like that's like half your fucking expected life expected,
that's right back then.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, She's like, well I can get I okay, fine,
I'm an only lady of twenty two.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, I'm an old maid of twenty two.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
I just met this great guy. Okay, well, I'm going
to be made for seven years. Then she finds out
that she also has to attend to him by picking
lice out of his matted hair. No, that's how they
did it.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Back then.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
They didn't have combs. They just had girls.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Do you know what I bought? I think that's above
my pay grade. That's what I would say. I'm sorry,
that's above my pay grade. I didn't sign up for
this shit. She was the first person to ever say
that phrase.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
In seventeen eighteen nineteen one hundred. So this one's already
gone off, way off. She also had to clean crumbs
out of his long, greasy beard and while fending off
his lecherous advances. Because there was no sexual harassment seminars
back then, she just started that job and.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Was off to the races.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
He was abusive and cruel to Alice and her boyfriend, Richard.
I'm calling her him her boyfriend. So by seventeen thirty four,
this old guy falls ill, and that's when Alice and
Richard have to start bathing him daily.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Right, so we go from bad to worse, But I mean,
is it bad to worse? It's like, at least he's
saying a bath every day, because I bet, yeah, he
wasn't doing that before. Yeah he's got lice. Yeah, that
wasn't a daily fucking ritual right in his life. No, exactly.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Certainly not combing his hair and putting it back into
a into like a Guitar Center ponytail, where it's like,
I'm not rocking on the stage right now, I'm here
to sell some ray guitar strength, so I'll put it
back into a clean and shiny pony tie.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
So it doesn't get in the food. Not this guy,
you know how Guitar's intern now service food. That lovely buffet.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
I thought that gorgeous buffet down front, So so they
have to wash him, bathe him great not the greatest.
It's uncertain whether Richard and Alice plotted the murder beforehand
or if it was just a lark. Is that's a
cut and paste if I've ever seen one, because you
normally would not use that word when it comes. That's

(35:55):
not the word that's correct in the sentence. Nope, unless
I was just being weird, which is very possible.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
I love that I forget which things I've unplagiarized and
which I actually played.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Oh, I guess I'll make this. I'll personalize this to
myself and.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
You well that doesn't sound like me though, Yeah, I know.
I just donated money to Wikipedia. By the way, I
was like, they were like, we need money, and I
was like, I owe them so much money.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Someone on Twitter, Sorry, I didn't write it down, just tweeted,
I just donated twenty dollars to Twitter, like and thought
of you guys, It's like, thank.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
You, twit wuk Gedia.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Sorry, they don't donate money to listen, do not give
your money to Twitter? No, they deserve nothing. No, she's sorry.
She tweeted that she donated twenty dollars to Wikipedia.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah it was nice, and.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
She shall remain nameless, even though I bet she doesn't
want to her names Georgia.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, so okay.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
So on March sixteenth, seventeen thirty four, while Richard was
bathing William, he took his neckerchief and strangered, strangled the
gross old man in the bathroom.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
That's me for sure.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Alice held his head underwater to make sure he was dead.
So they're not sure obviously if it was pre planned
and and like that, or if it was just in
that moment of like I can't take this anymore and
he's gross and old.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Anyway, Yeah, you take your neckerchief off. It sounds like
a spur of the moment kind of thing. Yeah, it does.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
And just like that what the final straw where he
was like, look at the bubbles I'm making.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Or what he was like, I hate your neckerchief and
he's like, oh you do. Do you really want to
get a close up look of it? Do you really?

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Because you're a withered old man sitting in a thing
of like not even hot water. They're bathing him, and
there's no running water indoors. They have to bring the
water in to bathe the old creepy. A bath is
a four hour ordeal back then. And there's so many
liver spots that you can barely see any of the bubbles.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
There was a bubble bath back I thought you manyways,
all right, say you're doing great, You're almost there. I'm there,
I'm so there.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Here's my eyes, Alice held I said that already. Then
they fled to South Carolina, where locals were fired up
about servants killing their masters. So they all helped with
the man hunt. So basically they were just like, oh,
we can't have this. If you're an indentured servant, you
don't get to kill anybody.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, now we have killed like everyone else does.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah, exactly, you don't have any rights much less, you
don't get to exact justice on anybody. So Alice and
Richard are easily found because everyone's out and after them,
and brought back to Georgia for trial. So a magistrate
named Thomas Kosten promptly sentenced them both to hang. So
their trial was basically like what's this, you say guilty?

Speaker 1 (38:49):
It lasted that long.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
So now there's two stories about as to.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
How things has to how I didn't write that. As
to how things.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Transpired, one is that Richard was hung first in the gallows,
and then when Alice saw that he got hung, she
freaked out, started screaming and saying she was pregnant, and
then they halted her execution until they could determine if
this was true. And but Alice Riley is known as

(39:17):
the first person to be hanged in the colony of Georgia,
and so that means it could he couldn't have gone first,
because why he would be the first person hung in Georgia.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
So get your facts straight, everyone, I mean, get your
fact straight.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
The oldest possible murder I could be talking about that,
That's very difficult to me. They didn't have Wikipedia back then.
You no, sure didn't. It was all rumor and gossip.
What if he didn't even have lice and we're just
besmirching the name of a of a lice free estate holder.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
What am I talking about?

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Another version has her just telling magistrates straight out, I'm pregnant,
so that both executions are postponed. Either way, the doctors
confirmed she's pregnant and her execution is postponed for eight months.
So that did happen, and she was pregnant. Most people
assumed that the baby was Wise William Wise's the old

(40:15):
creeps because he was raping her daily.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Holy shit. But Alice swore the babies was Richard's. So
they allow her to give birth to the child. It's
a boy and he's adopted two weeks later. Wow.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
So then on January nineteenth, seventeen thirty five, Alice Riley
is taken to Percival Square which is now called Right Square,
which was also known as Hanging Square or.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Why and then she was hanged. Oh oh, there you go.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
As she was being hung, Alice is said to have
screamed at the crowd gathered to watch her execution that
she had cursed the area. Right, that'd be exciting. And
then the legend has it that it took three days
for her to die fuck, and that her body was
left hanging in the gallows but then disappeared during the night.

(41:10):
So Alice Riley was the first person executed in the
new colony of Georgia, So that first version couldn't have
been the truth.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
And I sussed it out. I'm the one that figured
it out. Art, thank you.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Her lover, Richard White, was hung the next day. The
newborn child put up for adoption died soon after. Tragedy
all around. Right, So now we get to the haunting part. Right,
there's a haunting part, and it is really cool because
it was it wasn't enough for a live show, but

(41:44):
this is a This is a haunting where they have
tons of people who witness it and see it often.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Is it a ghost baby, It's a it's a ghost adult.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
So to this day this Athana police get calls from
tourists about a woman who's wandering and right square looking
for a baby and asking them for help.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
No.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yes, the police know it's Alice, so they always send
out the rookies to go check on it. And the
ghost often appears as a real person, and she consistently
appears to mothers with infants in strollers. So it's a
lady walking up with period costume. But the tourists don't

(42:24):
recognize it. They don't see it as anything weird because
there's so much in that area. It's there's reenactors and
there's tours and stuff of like, this is this historical
hanging square totally. So they just turn around and there's
a lady in period clothes going I lost my baby,
And then they go, oh my god, what happened? And
they try to help her and she disappears. Does she

(42:45):
disappear or does she walk away? Because what if it's
actually a woman and a reenactment woman who's just who's like,
I'm just out here to fuck with some people? Absolutely, well,
here's the witnesses describe the woman as being dressed in
period clothing. I just told you that part. But there's
a picture. Somebody took a picture of her running away

(43:06):
from the camera. Could be fake fun to talk about,
and you can look it up online and it's like
this weird. You can see it's a move, like it's
a I think from what I remember, it was nighttime
and she's running, so there's like it's a flashy looking
thing of like a body moving away. But it was
like someone going, this is so weird. It thank you, Steven,

(43:29):
because I pulled We pulled this for the.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Show, right, he knows. Let me see. Let me see.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Steven's pointing at me like we're playing charades right now
on the note you talk on this podcast.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Let me see. Let me say, look at that. I
want a painting of that hand it over. Wait. Oh,
that's creepy as fun, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Because it's almost like she got up close to the
person helped me find my baby, and then and then
ran away and the lady's like, hold on, that's weird,
and then took the picture.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
I know, great, babe, we'll put it up on our Instagram.
I really love this picture. Yeah. Then there's some Then
there's some fake ghost pictures underneath. Stop looking at pictures, Karen,
there's some fake ghost pictures under the real ghost picture. Yeah,
that's how you know. The first ghost is so real,
are fakeke fake? Here's a thing I like to.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
This Day's Spanish. Moss does not grow on the side
of the trees, the north side.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Of the trees that face the gallows. I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Is that a riddle.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
So all these trees have moss on them, yeah, but
they it won't grow on the side that face the gallows.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
It doesn't taste the sun.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
The easily explainable biolog I'm so sorry, but don't you see.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
That moss are the most sensitive of all lichens. It's
like they're protesting. It's they're facing bad vibes, like it's
been three hundred years. I can't stop protesting. They're like, no,
we can't. We saw what happened, okay, creepy. And then
I wrote her curse worked on the moss, and then

(45:08):
I wrote on it. Here's a final line.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
And that's the fast and poorly told story of the
hanging of Alice Riley. But there's picture, like, there's art
of her.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
It was just basically a murder.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
The first murder happened in Georgia. Uh like the first hanging.
Because of the murder, I love it, So you know
what I'm saying is I love Irish girls. Whatever that
shirt is Irish girls getting it done, And then there's
like a little gallows.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Great job, not really, I like the show was a theme.
Wait that was low hanging moss. Well that was stupid, wonderful.
Good job you did it. You know, here's what I did.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
I did it.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
I did do it.

Speaker 5 (45:59):
It was fun.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
We had some fun with it.

Speaker 5 (46:01):
I bet you.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Here's the thing, people, people, please send us if you
know personal Alice Riley stories, or you ever had Alice
Riley come up and ask you where her baby was?

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yes, I just think that that.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Could you imagine that idea alone of just a woman
that's like, please help me find my baby would be
the scariest a baby.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Yes, I'd be like, don't touch mine. Yeah, But then
you're like, now I'm cold. Ye, Now the moss is gone,
and I'm gonna Now I'm trying to take a selfie
with her because she's a period person and she's running.
Why would she run? That scary? Don't take a selfie
with me. I have an Instagram, bitch, I have a baby.
I have a mommy Instagram. It's five o'clock somewhere. I'm

(46:46):
a mommy. I love wine. I'm a mommy.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
Give me a calm sure, whind me whindy baby, less
whining and more whining. Yes, okay, I'm gonna do mine. Okay, great,
but I'm gonna pay for.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Sorry before you start? Can I just because Stephen found
that tweet? Yeah, thank you Steven. It was from Alexis
h don't do we say people's full names if they
tweet to us just their Twitter handle. Well there it is,
so Alexis Holzer on Twitter. She wrote to us, I
just donated twenty one dollars to Wikipedia. Support free knowledge,

(47:24):
but mainly keep kerical. Gareth from Georgia Hart start supplied
with information for my favorite murder, say sexy, and keep
Wikipedia running. And then she put the link for donation.
That's so nice, Thank you Alexis.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
That was very Colexis. Truly, this podcast would end, would
end if Wikipedia ended. I just don't. I thought that
I don't rely on it, and there's not a ton
of shit at all times. It's kind of just like
a base. You need to check the basic fact and
then you have to read a ton of articles. I mean,
redd it's better for information, yes, then Wikipedia you also
have to be very trusting on Reddit.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
I guess the same as Wikipedia, but that Wikipedia has
a little bit of a redd. It's more like I
heard in my high school classroom that where that's the shit.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
I love, but me too. Who knows? Who knows what
you're getting? It's all true. How have we not talked
about fucking Chris Dawson getting arrested? Oh my god? Have
we forgot to talk about in the beginning of this
true crime show? We forgot to talk about the true
crime fucking news of the week.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
If you haven't listened to the podcast Teacher's Pet, yeah,
you have to listen to it. It is so good,
it's so well done. It's Australian.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
It's it's The Australian, The Australian. Oh, that's right, the newspaper,
the Australians podcast, and it's about a woman, a mother
of two, who was married to this rugby star who
went fucking randomly missing in like nineteen eighty something, and
they're in, they're in investigating it. Clearly the fucking like
my T shirt says, the husband did it, yes, and

(48:50):
finally fucking got arrested like this week.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
And the details of it and the pain of the
people telling the story, and obviously because as they talked
to family members, but they also talked to these friends
and neighbors, and it's that thing of you know, it
might be Australian culture, it might be whatever it is.
But people back then didn't get into each other's business.
So when they heard these things and they heard the

(49:16):
re oh she's gone and she went away, she went
she joined a cult, she joined a cult. All these
things they weren't going to be like fighting with people
on the street of like, no, she didn't.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Especially when there's no yeah, there's no and when it's
that kind of thing. With a lot of these cult cases,
it's once you put you know, eight eight people have
one little fact. Yes, each won a different one, and
you don't realize un till you put them all together.
That tells a story, yes, which is so interesting.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
But it was so well done in it, so clearly
was done in this way that reporter Stephen do you mind,
would you please be my brain? But the reporter who
put this podcast together, who narrates it was so good
at it clearly is an investigative reporter for the Australia
and just was like this has to change in this case,

(50:03):
and they would interview these people, all those people, the
neighbors and the friends were so well spoken and Anni, go,
is there Australian public school system amazing?

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Because no, because he was working at them and fucking
was screwing all the sixteen year old girls and truing
the one that he moved in like the day after
Lynn went fucking missing. Boiler child molestation. I mean, absolutely
that fucking creep. Yes, there is a terrible.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Culture of silence and kind of like we get to
do what we want because we're rugby stars.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Or because we're pops, or because we're whatever. And they
wouldn't they wouldn't fucking prosecute him even though too. I
mean it's just an amazing story of like like letting
letting her down.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Yes, And but the people who there are people who
are so pained over it because they were like I
should have done something. They're so well spoken, they're so
emotionally intelligent. It's just a very satisfying podcast to listen to.
It's very gripping, and then there's actually there's a there's
something comes of it amazing.

Speaker 4 (51:04):
The teacher Spet is headed by gold Walkley winning investigative
reporter Headley Thomas Hailey.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Thomas Hedley Thomas, what a great job he does? And
then it, I mean he got the job done.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
It must be so I'm sure it's like he'd be like,
there's so many people involved who help me, blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
But I'd like to thank my publicist. It's like Headley
Hadley take it.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Speaking of great podcasts, my story kind of I found
it kind of because of one. Okay, hold on, Stephen.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
So did I uh the Alice Riley podcast. It's coming
out of Galway, Ireland.

Speaker 4 (51:44):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yes, So Karen, I text you over the week kind
of how obsessed I am with this podcast bear Brook Yes,
put up by New Hampshire New Hampshire Public Radio. The
story starts with I'm sure you guys have heard it.
If you're a true crime there's bodies found in barrels
in the New Hampshire Woods, and goes on to tell
one of the most amazing fucking truth like if you're

(52:08):
if you I need to get someone into true crime.
This is the perfect fucking story because it goes into
so many different directions. It's really incredible. Yes, Like honestly,
there's so many parts where he's just screaming.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Yeah, and featuring friend of the show, Billy Johnson's true
crime reporter Billy Johnson, who this The Bodies and the
Barrels has been a cold case that he's been.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Obsessed with four years. Yeah, and trying to evolve. It
just keeps getting crazier and crazier. It's an incredible fucking story.
Like I want to make Vince listen to it so
he gets why I'm so obsessed with this shit. Yeah.
So Bodies in Barrels made me think of one of
the forensic files, and like cold case files, it's stuck
with me forever. Yes, of a body in a barrel? Uh,

(52:50):
this is the murder of Reina Marriquinn. Okay do you
know this one? I'm sure you know this one. I
don't know. Tell me, well, I'm gonna tell you. Okay,
tell me truth. So on septem second, nineteen ninety nine,
here we are, fucking don on the Internet age. You
really put me there? There you go?

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (53:07):
You know the dial up and shit? Yeah whatever. A
dude named Ron is moving out of his family. They're
moving the family out of the home in their upper
middle class neighborhood of Jericho, Long Island, so like lovely
little probably bedroom community, whatever the fuck? Mm hmm. During
the final walkthrough with the new with the buyer, they
go they go into the crawl space it's under the den,

(53:29):
and the new buyer is like, Hey, that that fucking
fifty five gallon rusted drum that's been stashed in the
fucking thirty six inch crawl space under the rear den
since Ron's family had moved in ten years earlier. You
need to get that fucking thing out of here before
I buy this house. It's the last thing you need
to do. Yeah, and Ron says, I was annoyed, but
I'll do it. It weighs three hundred and forty five

(53:52):
pounds they had seen. He remember seeing it when they
moved in, too heavy to move forgot about it ten
years later. Now he needs to dispose of it, so
he has the movers help him bring it to the
curb to have the trash men or women garbage sanitation
workers to take it away. But the next day, after

(54:16):
the fucking garbage women uh sanitation workers come, it's still
there and they left to note that was like, yo, dude,
a this could be toxic waste. We don't know what's
in it, but it's too fucking heavy. You need to
like empty it out before we'll take it, or you
need to do something else with it. But like we're not,
we're not taking it. Yeah, you have to get rid
of this responsibly exactly. So he's like, all right, fuck

(54:37):
this shit. He gets a neighbor. They pry the lid
off with a screwdriver and are immediately when the fucking
top comes off, are hit with this insane smell. That's
they're gagging. It's the worst smell they've ever smelled in
their lives. Guess what's in it? There's a green liquid
sludge inside. Nope, and floating at the top of that sledge,

(54:58):
they see a hand and a sh you that's still
on the person at the top of the liquid. No. Yeah,
So they call the police and minutes later Nassau County
Police arrived and confirm there's a body in the barrel,
which is like, duh, we knew that, dude. The barrels
taken to the medical examiner. They begin the process of

(55:20):
extracting the remains, which takes hours, and there's like photos
and video the whole fucking thing. No, of course, I
looked at all of them. Don't do it. Why it's fun,
it's not. It's fascinating. They drain the green industrial liquid
and they don't know what the liquid is, and they
also find thousands of small plastic pellets like little. It

(55:41):
looks like the inside of a bean bag. Oh yeah,
you know what I mean. And they're able to remove
the body eventually, which had it invertently become mummified because
so long. Yeah, and the items, the other items, they'd
all been like really well preserved because the barrel had
that air tight seal, so everything was mummified. They determine
that the body is of a young female between the

(56:03):
ages of twenty and thirty, probably white or Hispanic. When
they X ray the body, they find that the victim
was nine months pregnant.

Speaker 5 (56:11):
Oh no, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
The victim's cause of death is blunt force trauma to
the skull. It looks like she's been hit maybe ten
times in the back of the head. Oh god, that's crazy.
They aren't able to get fingerprints because she'd been mummified,
but they get a clue to her identity because first
of all, her unusual dental work and the autopsy dude

(56:34):
was from South America and identified her dental work as
being from South America.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
Oh yeah, wow, yeah, he was good at his job, right,
would that be the medical examiner? Thank you, yes, autopsy dude,
because I was like, is that the corner? But that's
a different it's not necessarily the same thing. Medical examiner
is completely right, Okay, the.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Thank you lawn order. And then they noticed that the victim.
They were like, how long has this body been here?
They noticed that she's wearing a style of dress that's
like indicative of the nineteen sixties.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Whoa.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
So they're like, this is this looks way older than,
you know, a decade she's wearing She's still totally dressed
in a skirt, button down sweater, high socks and shoes,
and a coat, a leopard print coat. And so they
think that maybe this could have happened decades earlier, this
nineteen ninety nine, remember dial up. They were able to
estimate that she's been dead from twenty five to thirty years. Whoa, Yeah,

(57:33):
so she still has on some jewelry and in the
fucking barrel along with the body is her purse. Jesus Christ. Yeah,
so they the medical examiner looks in the purse. They
find like everything that she would have thrown in there,
compact her fucking comb, an eyelash curler, and they also
find a small little paper address book that of course

(57:56):
is so deteriorated from the body fluids and whatever, this
green slow that they can't read anything that's in it.
They said that it was like so delicate you could
have just pushed your finger through it. But they're hopeful
that maybe if they can get this fucking thing dried
out and shit, that it can give them a clue
as to who this woman is, because they don't know
who she is still, Okay, so detective her name is

(58:19):
Joan Feertner. She's a forensic document examiner, and she thinks
she could remove some of the writing, even though it's deteriorated.
She places a book it's like this is fucking newfangled
forensic thing. It's a drying cabinet and hopes the victim's
handwriting would appear as the moisture of aporated. And it
was so painstaking. It was like one piece of paper

(58:41):
every four hours would dry off enough, and she had
to use this crazy ruler to like just to turn
the pages other ways, they would have just disintegrated. But
she's able to kind.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Of piece some stuff out. Wow, I bet that part
of a job like that is so sad, so rewarding
because it really is like it's a puzzle that actually matters. Yeah,
It's like it's not fucking Garfield nils on it. It's
like you put these pieces together and you can actually
solve a cold case.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
You can like find the murder of a nine month
pregnant fucking.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Yes, someone's daughter, sister, somebody.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
It sounds amazing.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
So meanwhile, while doctor Furtner's trying to figure out this
address book, Hey, let's go over to the detectives. In
the meantime, they are like, how do we find out
where this barrel came from. Let's dig into the history
of the house first. They're like, no one's stupid enough
to put a fucking barrel with the dead body that
they killed in their own fucking house. That is stupid.

(59:39):
So and no one and like sneaking by is going
to just like be like I'm going to stash this
body here. So they're like, well, what about the people?
So the cross space had been an ad on, so
they're like, what about maybe the construction workers who had
made this cross space right, So they look up the details.
They find out it was made in nineteen eighty and
so they go find the dude who owned the home
in nineteen eighty and he's like, no, I remember the

(01:00:01):
crawl space wasn't built then, it was built before we
moved in. I remember seeing that barrel too. My kids
played hide and seek behind it and shit, ooh, like
it was there before that. And then they realized that
the that the crawl space permit was misdated and actually
built way before. Oh. So they looked into the owners
of the home throughout the years and they find that

(01:00:23):
there are four different owners for the past thirty years.
And when they questioned about the owners, they all mentioned like,
we saw it, we couldn't move it, we ignored it.
Can I just say one thing? Yeah, yeah, the person
who misdated that permit, Yeah, I want to talk to them. Yeah,
why you mocked this entire thing up?

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Well?

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Also, did you have something to do with it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Like that's very cleanal just putting it out there.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
So maybe the person who who filed the Yeah, that's
a good point. Murderers, government worker, that's right of some
kind or the person who was asking for the permit
purposely misdated it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Yeah, because that was back when you could probably like
lick your thumb and rub it on there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Make six and an eight pretty easily.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Really, look mom and a plus exact in a subject
I'm terrible at right, that's slightly smudged.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Spit. Don't worry about it anyway, anyway, give me a cupcake.
I got a's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
But one owner in particular fucking Red Flag city over here,
his name's Howard Elkins. Are the guy who the detective
who got this case. His name is Detective Robert Edwards.
He's like a badass legend. Everyone's like in awe of
him at the time. He's one of the longest serving
homicide detectives ever. So he doesn't get the like fucking

(01:01:39):
jaywalking cases.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Like this guy is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
He's like, bring me the real stuff. Yeah, They're like, great,
here's this insane thing. So he says about this guy,
Howard Elkins, he was very tall, good looking, distinguished businessman.
He had owned the house from nineteen fifty nine through
nineteen seventy two, and he had also owned in town
a plastics factory called Melrose Plastics. Did they specialize in tiny,

(01:02:02):
tiny pellets. Let's keep going. Sorry, I just want to guess. Okay,
they specialized in beanbag filling.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
I just want I just want to show I am
good at this, even though my to the story ACTIL
does not reflect.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
That Karen is the longest serving amateur detective in history.
That's right, I've got my muscache. Yeah, so they are
these fucking smart people are able to trace the numbers.
They trace the numbers that are printed on the barrel
to the fucking barrel company. Yeah. I guess that's just
fucking who. Like, who would have thought, like, I'm going

(01:02:36):
to open a barrel company.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
You know what.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
The thing I've never told you about myself is I'm
actually a barrel heiress.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
I don't want a barrel baron. Yeah, I'm inheriting a
barrel fortune.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
You always need them. We've got the oil people, and
no one thinks to make them because everyone's like making
the shit that goes in them.

Speaker 5 (01:02:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Just my genius grandfather so smart.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
It was like, what if I'm you can fill the
barrel with whatever you want, I'm making the barrel you
have to buy. Yeah, yeah, start at fucking started a
start a b I love it container container store.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
It's not a plug. Okay, So this fucking barrel company
is like, yeah, dude, we I know that barrel number.
We used to sell barrels to marrow to Melrose Plastics
in the seventies for sure. What's up? Connected? Connected. They
also found that the green pigment from the drum was
used to dye the concrete and plaster. Okay, so here's
the thing, here's what Melose Plastics did. Melrose Plastic makes

(01:03:33):
fake flowers. Oh, one of the things that was found
in the barrel, besides those pellets in the green sledge,
was the and then you can see a photo of it,
the fucking uh like leaves from fake flowers. Creepy maybe
as fuck. They found that the green pigment from the
that was in the drum that industrial ship was the
dye that they used to dye the concrete and plaster

(01:03:54):
bases that held the plastic flowers and trees produced at
the Elkins workshop. So that plastic. I think that that
those pellets for the plastic that they melted down and
turned into the plastic flowers, got it, So that's like
the pre flower. Yeah you know what I mean? Yes,
I think so. In a telephone interview with The New
York Times, mister Elkins acknowledged that he had bought the

(01:04:17):
house new in nineteen fifty seven, had lived in it
for fifteen years before selling and moving to Florida in
nineteen seventy two. And yes, he had built the den
off the kitchen that created the crawl space. And had
he ever gone in the cral space that he said?
What for never been in there? I never went in
the crawl space? Liar?

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Well, four lots of things like say, you got a
raccoon got in there? Right?

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
You want a store? Your basic shit that you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
You murder somebody and you want to hide a body. Right,
There's a couple of reasons and those are the only ones.
Days later, so detectives are like, great, they make a
trip to Hallendale Beach, Florida, where they tracked down this
says eighty year old, but I heard seventy year old
and other things.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
But who knows. Oh no, no, I'm sorry. They tracked
down eighty year old Melvin Gantman. He's a retired businessman
and elkins former partner.

Speaker 5 (01:05:05):
Uh oh.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
They show him a picture of the barrel and he's like, yeah,
that was definitely one of our fucking barrels. We use
those for sure. Fucking barrels are the best. I know,
those barrels.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
They asked him if they had if he had any
idea about a dead pregnant woman found inside one of them,
that was found under the elkins former Long Island home,
and he's like, yo, we used, we used to make
manufacture plastic flowers using young immigrant women as line workers.
Uh oh, he said, I remember that Elkins had become

(01:05:39):
involved with one of them and had an affair with
her way back then. We go all right, here it is.
He described the girl as exotic and beautiful, with long,
dark hair, and her two s front teeth had been
gold or she had gold fillings that he couldn't remember
her name, but all of that fit with the body.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
And that's the interesting dental works, right the Emmy oh Man.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Yeah, but they still don't know who she is, and
there's no missing person's report from back then either, like
of someone fitting that description. So let's go back to
fucking NASA County crime Lab where doctor Furtner is fucking
working with paper, and yes, yeah, she detects faint markings
on the dry pages. But they're still unreadable. So she
uses a video spectral comparator, right for I have one.

(01:06:24):
They're so convenient. Oh yeah, yeah, they just have to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
Yeah, when you need to compare one thing to the other,
every house needs one, get a spectral version of it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
Well back then it was a new cutting edge machine
that allowed her to look through. Now we use these
every day in her every day lives now, But back
in nineteen eighty nine, yes, because I was like, really,
how you really do want one?

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Now?

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
No, we don't know what they are and it's probably
dated as fuck already, right, yes, exactly. She looks through
the infrared and ultra violet ranges of the spectrum outside
of the range of the eye. That blah blah blah.
But sure, so she.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Scared part on forensic files and everything turns blue, right,
I think part on forensic pials where everything is dated
because it because it's nineteen ninety seven exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
So she scans the address book pages and is able
to detect under this ultraviolet thing the victim's handwriting, and
in one page she found the phrase social security number,
and on another she finds the word residencia nombree, which
She's like, this must be her, fucking her. What's it
called immigration number? Thank you? Is that a thing? Yes,

(01:07:30):
that's what it is. Okay, that's correct. So this lead
leads police to go to go to immigration and they're
able to use her fucking number from nineteen sixty seven
to track down who this person was. Her name is
Rena mar Quinn. She's twenty five years old in nineteen
sixty six when she immigrated to New York from El Salvador,

(01:07:50):
and she had been twenty seven when she disappeared and
no one had heard from her again. In nineteen sixty nine,
she had worked as a nanny and at Melrose Plastics
in Manhattan. Whoa Yeah, So later detective Wurdner found let's see,
i'll read that to you in a minute, okay. So
doctor Wertner also finds they're able to pick up a
bunch of phone numbers from the book and they're like

(01:08:11):
these it's been thirty years and these phones are all
going to be disconnected. They're all disconnected, all disconnected. And
then they call one number. A woman named Kathy picks up.
She's asked if she knew Rena, and she starts fucking
crying and she's like, my angel. I thought I'd never
hear about her again. I knew something had happened to her.
Oh no, yeah. So she said she had met Rena

(01:08:31):
in an English class and said that Rena had come
to the US to study fashion. She was obsessed with
the fashion industry. She took citizenship classes. She loved New
York and was full of life and eager to learn
and make a life in the US. Over time, Kathy
noticed a change in her friend. She asked Raina about it,

(01:08:52):
and her friend said that she was pregnant, but refused
to tell Kathy the father's identity, but just said that
he was married. He had gotten her a private doctor,
she said, and an apartment in New Jersey to be
closer to him. She told Kathy that he said he
was going to marry her and leave his wife and
three children once she had the baby, but when Rena

(01:09:14):
was worried, he would never keep his promise, and finally,
when she's fucking nine months pregnant, he's like, I'm not
going to marry you. She calls Kathy one day and
is like, I'm freaking out. I panicked and I called
his wife and told her, Oh no, yeah, And the
next day, Reina calls Kathy and hysterics, saying that this

(01:09:35):
mysterious boyfriend had threatened to kill her. He called and
under killer. He's coming over, she said, come over right away.
When Kathy gets to Reina's apartment, no one answers the door.
She goes in the door's ajar. There's like food left
on the stove, warming as she had just been there,
and her winter coat and boots had been left behind.
And Kathy waited for hours and hours and eventually just

(01:09:58):
calls the police, but of course they miss her story
and like Raina's just run off with her boyfriend and
she doesn't know who the boyfriend is, so she doesn't
know who to call, right, Kathy never saw her friend again.
Oh my god, I know that's so, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
There's something very satisfying about the fact that that Reina's
story ends like that dramatically and then picks up that
yeah that years and years later, where there's it's that
thing like there are people sitting there waiting totally to
like hear something.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Yeah, to be like part of you probably is like
I don't want to know, because I you know, if
they haven't called me in thirty years.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
It's not because they just moved on. Yes, it's because
something bad happened. Right, her friend would have contacted her, right.
She was like, that's so creepy, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
And it's like, you know, they were both they were
both El Salvadoran, so it's like, of course the police
back then and maybe even now aren't going to take
you seriously or care that much about your case. It's
really sad.

Speaker 5 (01:10:58):
Yes, So.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Investigators believed that this dude Elkins went to Raina's New Jersey,
either went to her house and apartment, took her away,
or lured her to the factory and killed her there.
And then they think that he took her body to
that heat, so they probably he probably took her body
to his house where the barrel had been found along

(01:11:23):
with a barrel. His intention was to dump it in
the ocean from his boat, but when he filled the
drum underneath and sealed it up, and shit, it was
too heavy for him to move to his boats. We
just fucking left it there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
You know what's funny is that I was about to
say it's too heavy to put it, and then I'm like,
because now it's coming like the forensic files that I've
seen on this is coming back to me right as
you say each thing we.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Had three hundred and seventy five pounds, right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
But I want credit for knowing things even where it's
like you saw a TV episode on this, it's not
you don't know anything.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
I no, no, you remember the TV episode that's you
should get props for that. Girl. Listen, our brains are deteriorating.
It's for real. Just like it was too heavy, right yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
Yes, Karen, because you saw it on TV already. H
but it is like, like what a fucking sounds like
a Coen Brothers movie. Yet he was like, I'm filling
it up on a bran it to the boat. It's
too fucking heavy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Yeah, what do I do? I live for the next
you know, fucking fifteen years. He lives with it under
his fucking house where his children live and where his
wife is sleeping. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
So it's like, clearly you just have no human emotion
because you are able to do right, not crack not
No one catches on.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Here's what I want to know is I want to
hear from his children who were like he changed after
like like we remember a change in dad or his
wife being like, that's when he started being weird. There
was a change. We wanted to move out of that house,
and he wouldn't move, and we didn't understand why he
wanted to stay in the house so bad. It's wait,
are those all theories you're saying that? That's what I'm thinking. Oh, Like,
they stayed in the house for longer than anyone else.

(01:12:58):
And maybe it's because he's like, I can't let anyone
else move in here, right, so he knows that people
the next people are going to find it. He's probably
just waiting for someone to fucking find this barrel. He
moves to Florida.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Here's my and not to give ideas, but you you
build this crawl space right and basically tide this this
unmovable crazy heavy badly planned a barrel with a body
in it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
Why wouldn't you just throw up a fake wall? I
mean fill it in with concrete.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Yes, do those things that like the mob does and
stuff so that it's just not overt and it's something
that gets discovered years and years later, as opposed to like,
oh I played hide and seek near this barrel, or
it's like could take the extra step, pay the extra
two hundred dollars and have him throw up some paneling.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
I mean, it's either like a cockiness that he never
thought he'd get caught, or wanting to get caught maybe yes, maybe,
or just being just shutting down that part of his
brain and being a like just you know, not dealing
with it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
I'm not really even sure what I'm arguing.

Speaker 4 (01:14:02):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
Just don't be a better criminal, Yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
if you're gonna go all the way, and why not
it goes all away? Leaving things behind like that is
so insane.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
It's almost like he wanted to get caught. Yeah, but
that's giving this fucking asshole too much credit. True, so,
but but but Department et cetera. On the afternoon of
September ninth, nineteen ninety nine, just a week after discovery
of the body, detectives knock on Howard Elkins's home in
an f scale retirement community in Boca Raton, Florida, and

(01:14:34):
they're like, what's up, dude, here's a photo of this,
here's a photo of that, this is who, this is
what the fucking fuck? And he didnied he'd ever seen
the barrel when they asked me about his relationship with
the victim. He's like, yeah, I did have an affair
back then, but I when my wife and I were
having issues, but I don't remember her name, and I
don't remember what she looks like. Blah blah blah. And

(01:14:55):
they're like, bullshit, bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
I know you remember people, even if you hated the person,
you remember if you had an affair with them totally,
you remember what they look like. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
They pressed him further and asking if he ever put
her up somewhere, if you knew she was pregnant, and
he claimed he hadn't, so he was. But then they're like,
can we get a fucking DNA swop of your cheek?
We had, we brought it all with us, And he's like, nope,
I want a lawyer. Get the fuck out of my house.
But before leaving, this fucking badass one hundred Forever Detective,

(01:15:30):
the first hundred year detective in New York in New
York State, the.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
Crip Keeper Detective Robert Edwards, he's like, I'm a fucking
Redwood tweet tree.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
You can't escape my justice count my rings, motherfucker.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
That's his uh, he's like saying, he pulls the gun
on someone counts and they're like, sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
What and there he's like, no, I don't, you can't
take a sample. But before leaving, he's like, he turns
to him, looks him straight in the fucking face and goes,
I'm gonna come back here tomorrow with a warrant for
your DNA. We're going to check it against that dead baby,
he says, And we're going to prove that you're the
father of that baby and that you killed Rena. Yes,

(01:16:11):
and he says that this guy, he doesn't fucking Howard
Elkins doesn't react.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
Of course, not at all, of course not. He's cold
as he's a cold hearted snake.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
Can do his eyes. That's right, he's been telling lies. Oh, oh, okay.
The next day, they're still in Florida, the detectives, they're
processing their paperwork. They get a call from the Nassau
County back Home Homicide Squad and they're like, what's going
on with Elkins? We just got a call from the
police department in Florida saying that his wife is filing

(01:16:43):
a missing person's report on her husband. What Howard Elkins? Oh, oh,
she doesn't know where he is. He ran by the
time long Island cops arrived at the Palm Beach County
Sheriff's office. Elkins had been found earlier in the day.
And this is so fucked up. He's seventy years old
at this point. Okay, he walked into a wal mart,

(01:17:05):
purchased a twelve gage shotgun and a box of shells,
and because there's no such thing as fucking background checks
or fucking waiting period, he walks the fuck out with
both those things. He got in the back seat of
a neighbor's suv, which is such a dick, very rude,
and fired one shot into his fucking skull. Whoa, His

(01:17:26):
son discovered his body with a gun between his legs.
Awful and the Florida neighbors are, of course shocked that
the big bearded, jovial man could have been involved in
this crime. Postmortem DNA testing confirms that he was the
father of Raina's unborn child. Wow. They also found with
all this paperwork, another like a little piece of paper

(01:17:47):
tucked into the address book of you know, her address
book that they were able to, like fucking it's so
crazy and creepy, they were able to spectrometer. They spectromedated
this thing the situation. So another thing they're able to
find as a little PostScript in that piece of paper
is a piece of paper that when they figure it out,

(01:18:08):
when they PostScript, it says, don't be mad. I told
the truth. So she probably told called the wife, told
the wife what was going on. He found out she
left him a note somewhere, maybe at work, maybe it
was car which no maybe she oh wait, she didn't
leave it anywhere. She had it still, Yeah, so she
was going to leave it for him. Maybe she was

(01:18:28):
going to leave it for him. Don't be mad. I
told the truth, the poor thing like she did. She
told the truth, that's right. So a month after the
case is finally closed, they figure everything out. Writer and
journalist Oscar Corral. He's determined to find the family that
must be fucking looking for her or must have wondered

(01:18:50):
what happened to their sister, their daughter, their cousin back
in El Salvador over thirty fucking years before when they
stop hearing from her, right, So he goes to fucking
El Salvador and has to like it takes some days
and days searching to finally find Raina's family, and after
a couple of days he locates Raina's ninety five year

(01:19:12):
old mother, Celia. Oh no, you're ready to cry yep.
Oscar goes and shows the woman a thirty year old
photo of Reina and the mother. Celia starts to weep
and falls to the fucking ground. Her sister told him
that Raina had left El Salvador in August nineteen sixty six.
She wanted a new start after a failed marriage. Quote

(01:19:34):
She'd tell my mom, I'm going to be somebody. I'm
going to be somebody someday. And for three years, Reina
Mariquinn wrote her family regularly, she called, and then with
no explanation. In nineteen sixty nine, the letters and calls
suddenly stop, and they'd been heartbroken ever since. Her family
had putup announcements in the paper in El Salvador trying

(01:19:56):
to track her down, but over the years family had
accepted that they might never ever know what happened to Rena.
I know her brother, but had been having reoccurring nightmares
about her daughter being trapped inside a beryl no o.
Her mother. Reina was flown back to her hometown of

(01:20:18):
San Martin, and her mother said, now I know she's
with me. She came flying like a dove back to
her home, and Celia died a month later and was
buried next to her daughter. Oh god, you're trying to
kill me. Fucking held out until she found out what happened. Yeah,

(01:20:38):
and that is the fucking murder of Rena Meriquin. Wow. Amazing.
How fucked up is that? Also? What a beautiful thing
for that it was a reporter. Yeah, he's really incredible.
He's in a lot of the videos that I think
he's a writer and I'm pretty sure he wrote a
book about the case. Yeah, and he's in a lot
of these the videos that you see of like you know,

(01:21:00):
forensic files and shit, all the stories about him, and
he just has this like empathy, right, you can tell.
Yeah he undertaarred about he was emotionally attached to this case.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Yeah yeah, yeah, which I think is what happens. I mean,
how could you especially that Everything about that story is amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
Yeah, it's like, first she want you want to put
a name with this poor girl who nobody had missed
for thirty years, who was pregnant with a bay and
then she might not she's pregnant, and then you know,
it's so many fucking layers.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
I think there's something too about that, like there's a
there's a weird that apathy and that inhumanity of just like,
this isn't convenient. This is a thing I chose to
do it. There's something that came of it that's not
convenient for my real life. So I'm going to remove this,
and therefore everything's star Yeah, because there's part when you

(01:21:51):
were like, oh the joke, how I can't believe the
jovial neighbor where I had a moment of oh, that's
so sad for him, and it's like, no, no, no,
you don't get to go through life and just like
remove inconvenient mistakes that you made, choices.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
That you made you that led to obvious fucking places.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
Yes, and you and basically that you you did something inconsiderate,
you did something selfish, and then that thing kicked back
on you, which they always do.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Well, that's the thing about why the note is so tragic.
I don't she didn't do it, like, you know, I
don't be mad. I told the truth, yes, and then he,
you know, in a lot of ways lied and one
of those lies is murdering the problem.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
And also he's incience.

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
He basically made a promise to her of like okay,
like I love you, I love you, I want to
have this baby's gonna leave.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
I'm gonna leave my wife.

Speaker 5 (01:22:44):
So he's fucking everybody over yeah, everybody, his children, everything.
And then this assumption that you make is like, oh,
there's a body, there's a body in a barrel. Therefore
that in and of itself means that that person doesn't
matter because they've just been sitting there where it's like, no,
unpack it all, investigate it all and find out how
much this person actually means. Yeah, I mean that's there's

(01:23:07):
it's so good.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
Way because like it's it was so sad too that
you know this fucking he killed himself, so there was
no bringing him to justice, right, so at least you
know this journalist. Probably part of it was that he
wanted to go find her family. There has to be
someone who's missing her, who's missed her, and he does it,
and it's like incredible, Well it does it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
It's like, yeah, that's such an amazing story, great job,
thank you so good. Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
Fucked up, so.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
Fucked up, I mean they all are. It's like I
think that's that's with so much of this.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
People like true crime.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Just like justice, and they like to hear these stories
of like it's basically the stories of everybody matters. Everybody
matters no matter what the actual official quote unquote story is.

Speaker 1 (01:23:51):
Totally and they matter to cops. They mattered.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
These detectives that dedicate their lives, these reporters that dedicate
their lives.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Right, there's all these scientists, the community.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
You know, the woman with her beautiful radial spectrometer who's
just like piecing together is important. Yes, this matters so much. Yeah,
it's really lovely.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
It is. It is, and it's horror it is. That's
part of like I think being into true crime is
like when things get solved, you're you know, you're there
for it. You want to like, you don't just want
to know about these horrible things that happen. You want
to know how there are good people out there, you know,
trying their best to at least put a period on
a horrible sentence. Yeah, that's somehow positive or you know,

(01:24:35):
human humane, Yes, And I think that's what's being Like
everyone thinks we're just like into serial killers or like
into murder, but it's like no, we're into these insane
human fucking stories. Yeah, a crazy adversity that happens all
the fucking time to people all around us. It's it's
an incredible story. I want to know the story, not.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Just you know, the bad part, not just not just
the gruesome detail, but like the human stories and who
gets pulled into those stories. And you know, there's people
whose jobs that are what there's people whose jobs it
is to just you catch the case, and so then
that's your this is your case, this is your thing.

(01:25:17):
And like the idea that you know, the Redwood Tree
Detective goes down and is just like, guess what, friend,
it's over. Yeah, And I don't care that it's thirty
seventy whatever years. I don't care that you're old.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
You the buck stops here with you. Time to fucking
time to face your fucking lives.

Speaker 5 (01:25:35):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
And you don't get to just lie your way through life.
You don't get to be the jovial fucking neighbor because
you know, Raina never had a chance to be a
mother to her unborn child.

Speaker 3 (01:25:46):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
No, So it's not how that fucking works.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
It's not how it works. There is justice sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
Sometimes sometimes sometimes sometimes hopefully. Wow, fucking horay, fucking horay.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
I mean I could do mine because I will say this,
I complain and you know whatever, I use it as
an excuse so I have this job, and so it
makes this job harder. Whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
But this.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
This season, writing on, this season of Best is going
to end. I think it's this week or next week.
So I'm so much sure it's just going on forever
pretty soon.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
It's never going to end.

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
It's but it's such an amazing The group of people
that work on the show are so amazing. It's been
such a fun year. It's been such a joy. Everything
about it has been the best, the best experience. So there,
you know, it really has been worth it in so
many ways. And then and also it's been killing me

(01:26:44):
slowly and just basically kind of peeling away my mental stability.
But I do adore it so much and it's at
least so grateful. Yeah that to be even involved in
it is such an honor. So I will say this
week's fucking horay is the fact that I get to
be a writer on Baskets.

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
It's very cool to me. Amazing. Yeah, I'm so happy
for you. Thank you. Mine is okay, my fucking hurray. Okay.
So there's this gal I follow on Instagram called named
Jen Gotch g O t H. She has a podcast
called Jen's Okay. Jen Gotch is okay sometimes and she

(01:27:24):
talks a lot about her own mental health struggles as well.
She put out those really cute script necklaces that say
anxiety and depression that sold out immediately so I can
get one. But she posted a photo like this week
of her hand with you know, her her new med,
her new like, uh, what's it called pill, her new

(01:27:44):
pill for her anxiety right, and talked about it, and
I was like, that's really cool. So I posted, you know,
gave her credit and posted one two of the pills
I take to make me not fucking stay in bed
all day depressed and anxious. And then a bunch of
fucking people have started doing it with the hashtag that
was created someone made it up called my favorite meds,

(01:28:05):
And so now there's like two hundred plus photos and
posts that people are putting up on their Instagram of
what pharmaceutical they fucking take so that they can function
in life, which I know is a really weird topic
for a lot of people to talk about. So the
fact that there's all these people doing it is really incredible.
So I go to my favorite meds hashtag and if
you feel so inclined, post what you're taking. And I

(01:28:27):
know it's like a secret for a lot of people
that they're on fucking prozac or they need a xanax
every now and then. But I feel like people posting
it and making it public says to everyone else on
their feed that they know in real life or on
the internet or whatever, or it went to high school with,
like this isn't this shouldn't There doesn't need to be
a stigma behind this, right, and it's okay, very normal, yeah,

(01:28:50):
and all we all need help sometimes, yes, So sure,
I think it's helping in a little way to end
the stigma of taking taking fucking pharmaceuticals. That's great. Everyone's
depression and everyone's shit.

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
And Jen Gotch did it first. Yeah, she's like she's groundbreaking,
that's right. I definitely gave her credit and yeah, yeah,
she's really cool. I'm a big fan of hers.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
That's great. Yeah, that's really awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
Yeah, that's that, you know, that makes me think of
his Chrissy teage and did the same thing as her.
New baby needs to wear a helmet to shape his skull.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
I saw that. I fucking love her. What did she say?
It was so cute? Don't worry, He's fine, Yes exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
It's just like it's just to shit to shape his skull.
It's going to make him even cuter. And then it
was just like and then it's all these people being like, yep,
we look, how cute my baby. It's with this on
where it's there's something very cool happening with it. There's
obviously social media brings a lot of horror. It can harm,
It can influence us in ways and make us think

(01:29:47):
very strange things about ourselves. It also has that power,
a very healing power, in a unifying power, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
And I think there's a big move of like anti
an anti shaming thing going on right now where it's
like body pops activity and like, you know, I see
these incredible, these incredible gals who don't have the fucking
typical bodies posting these incredible bikini photos of themselves that
you're like, this needs to be normal. And the more
the more you post them, the more you feel normal

(01:30:14):
about yourself, whether it's because you need meds, or because
you don't have a fucking you don't weigh one hundred
and five pounds.

Speaker 2 (01:30:20):
Because it is not normal at all, Right, it's not
normal the helmet, like the people that look like that,
and the presentation of it is like it's because I eat,
I'm vegan, and I'm this and I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
It's like, if those people.

Speaker 2 (01:30:31):
Are actually honest about how they stay that skinny, it
would be a very different story. And that happens sometimes
when people like all those women who are so emaciated.
In the nineties, Courtney thorn Smith came out with like
that whole story. She was like, we on Alan McBeal,
we all worked out four hours a day. They were
never not working out, they were never not starving themselves.

(01:30:52):
It's like, there's that's the story you never hear on
that side of like just the really, I'm just this
really healthy actress that I love spinning it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
I love a burger. That happen all the time. There's
people who are like blessed with that, but it's not
that common. As an ex anorexic, I can say that
it's not you make you say this and you say that,
but it's not fucking true. You just are not eating
and you're not enjoying life and you're hurting yourself. I know, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
You know what, the whole movement is very cool thing
of just like being yourself is good right now, like
right now, and just give give yourself a break. Whatever
direction you are and however, whatever area you're in, give
yourself a break.

Speaker 1 (01:31:37):
Yeah, that's a good that's a good message.

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
Yeah, and you're not alone. There's other people either going
through it that have gone through it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:45):
It's not reach out and be vulnerable and you might
get that back from someone else. You will get that
back from someone else out there. It might not be everyone.
Some people might reject it, but the people you for
it from everyone, right, But the people you do find
that from, you're going to make connections with them that
are life long, life changing, life affirming, Like for example,

(01:32:07):
you and I. Yeah it's perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
We did it. We did it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
We're working on it. Yeah, life's a struggle, but it's
real fun, you know what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
It's just like the goal should be that you are
comfortable and happy instead of perfect, because perfect doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
It's just this. It's perfect as boring. It's just it
does It's not real though, it's not real.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
Because the people we think are perfect are suffering in
some way or something else is happening.

Speaker 1 (01:32:35):
Like you wouldn't want you really wouldn't want their life, right.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
It's just that's a weird oasis lie that keeps you
on that hook where it's like no, no, no, no, no, no,
come on everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:32:47):
I'm saying this absolutely to myself. Come on, what about
right now? Is fine? Thanks for listening you guys. We
as always appreciate you and are so happy to be
part of this community. We're so happy to be allowed
to barf all this dumb shit at you, truly, it's
really nic Thank you for holding our hair back.

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
Yeah, well that's what you guys are doing. You really
do hold our hair every week and we really appreciate that.
Just listening to us wretch. So guess what, stay sexy.

Speaker 1 (01:33:19):
And don't get murdered. God bye, Elvis. One cookie