29 - Episode: Twenty-Nein

Karen and Georgia discuss family-annihilator John List, as well as Warriena Tagpuno Wright who fell 14 floors to her death. Plus a hometown murder by comedian Matt McCarthy.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to my favorite murder. That's Karen Kilgareth, that is
Georgia Hart start.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
You know, no one can tell her voices apart. Still,
you know, it's pretty weird. Someone said to say, I
love when the truth the hometown murders are people sending
in like I know secret information about the case you
already covered, yes, because I know people from the whatever
the buck we love that. And someone was like, last
week sent us one and was like, Karen, I'm sorry

(00:45):
to disappoint you, but it was my case. Yeah, And
I was like, I'm sorry, no, we're sorry to disappoint you.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
That happens a lot when people talk about I love
when I think they say like Karen says, oh my
fucking God, during when George is telling me whatever it was.
It was like the reverse. And I knew it was
for sure because it was like one of your phrases. Yeah,
Jesus fucking Christ. But yeah, I mean, I just think
it's precious.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
It's so weird. I feel like, I mean, we're such
different people. There was a fucking thing on Facebook that
was like are you a Karen or a Georgia? Did
you see that? And it made me sad.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Oh, why was like, no one has to be me?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Were they both bad? No, everyone loves you and I'm not.
I was just everyone's like, I'm a Karen, but my
best friend is a Georgia, so that's fine. I know, Karen,
how do we? And then people were like, it's funny
how people will explain to other people how you can
tell the difference between us, And it's that you sing everything.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yes, that's me. And I also have a scratchy voice
because sometimes sometimes late at night, I smoke cigarettes. You
do not?

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah? I do? Do you, Karen? Yeah? Sometimes?

Speaker 1 (01:55):
And you can tell you can actually you can tell
how many I've been smoking, because like right now and smoking.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I don't know why I'm scandalized by this? Are you
because you never told me? And I feel like I
thought we knew. I thought I knew you know. It's
also because it's such a special thing that you do alone.
I think it's wonderful that you have that time to yourself.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Well sometimes at my house, like I'm home at the
end of the night.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
You have a great backyard. What else are you gonna
use it?

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Just sit in that backyard. Sometimes I just stick my
feet right in that pou.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
The life I want to live.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
It's pretty I don't mind it. But it's also like
I'm tired and I don't get to drink anymore, and
I don't get to do anything anymore, so I'll just
smoke a.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Little kind of hand rolled bally shag Sia do used
to hand the roll them yourself. Yeah, Karen, this is
why everyone wanted.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
To be you because I'm so fucking European.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
They we're saying like, Karen's a badass and I want
to be I think it's because I'm scared of everything
and talk about therapylities.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Is you are honest about your anxieties, and I'm always like,
just try to kill me, which is the most insane thing.
Every once in while, a little hit me where I'm like, oh,
I've actually said that out loud. In permanently, these recordings
are permanent. There's nothing we can do about it. And
I've actually been like, I don't care.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
There's gonna be no record of this, so it doesn't
matter when what happened. The end days come oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
this is all gonna be wiped off.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
But well the grid's gonna go down and they it
won't matter what's recorded because we won't be able.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
To access Delta is the first fucking is the.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
First airplane line that'll go down?

Speaker 2 (03:29):
No, it just went down like yesterday, Delta they had
like a blackout and they at their main hub and
everything was grounded and it's like across the country. Yeah,
they're like, there was just a glitch, and you're like, bullshit, bullshit.
Whenever I hear those things, and it was like someone
there was just a glitch.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
No way, uhuh, don't even no, there was. That was
the lizard men that are underneath the Denver Airport. They
are they're down there and they're fucking with the mainframe.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Man, don't even how much did you love? As soon
as I heard this on Stranger Things that they had
a fucking mk Ultra line, Like wait, really line? Did
you watch it all? No?

Speaker 1 (04:12):
I have? I think I have like two left or
three left.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Have you been to the possible eleven's mom's house yet? No? Yes,
they mentioned mk Ultra. That's why she's like that. Yeah,
because she was one of the people they were experimenting on.
Has anyone listened to this? I don't want to.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
I don't want to spoil anytheah. Yeah, Iyah spoilers. Uh, okay,
I missed that detail. I just thought they say.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Mk ultra in it. Holy shit.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, oh that makes me like it one thousand times more.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, okay, I have to go back and get through.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
I have to be honest when I binge watch shows,
especially on Netflix, and you just can like it. Hit
enter on the blue box and you just keep going.
There'll be times while I just fall asleep and I
don't even know which one I'm on. I just wake
up and keep watching whatever's on.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
I have the kind of insomnia that you can't fall
asleep in front of television. I've never fallen asleep in
front of maybe wrestling. That's Vince's fault.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Wow, we couldn't be more different. That's how I fall
asleep every night. It's very bad for you to sleep
in front of you.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Well, now I wonder how bad it is. I can't
fall asleep now without listening to the Sleep with Me podcast,
like I can't. You're his slave. I'm his slave. So
I wonder if some day they're gonna be like, it's
worse than I'm falling asleep to TV because he's infiltrating
my dream. That's right.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Well, if he is from Manchultra, You're screwed. Oh yeah, if.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
He is okay with it?

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Do you think he's so great? You're fine with it?

Speaker 2 (05:41):
I'm fine with it whatever his agenda might be. Like
same with Elvis, whenever one and one is like, oh
they you know, you get a virus from cats and
it takes over your brain and makes you a zombie,
and I'm like, I don't care. He's so cute, he's
so nice, he's so sweet. If he thinks I need
it to be a zombie, then i'll you know, he
knows what's best for me.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Sure, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
And also, you know you're gonna go, whether you're a
zombie for a cat or you get hit by a bus,
you're going to leave this earthly plane.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
So just accept it. Yeah. His head smells like a
library book The girl who was in love with her cat?
All right? Uh, do you have housekeeping?

Speaker 1 (06:20):
I have a housekeeping That makes me very happy because
it's twofold housekeeping. It was a tweet that my hero,
Nico Case, Singer songwriter Nico Case tweeted, You've.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Got a tiny little happy clap from Steven just now yay.
We love her, Love Nico case.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Don't tell me that the connection was lost and there
was a loading here on her phone. No, well, basically
she retweeted this story. I'm pretty sure it was from
the CBC about how their government, the Canadian government is
now opening an investigation on all the missing Indigenous women
in Canada. So that's like all the women. So you know,

(07:00):
Robert Pickton, I'm going to eventually do one on him,
if you don't beat me to it. He's the pig
farmer in Canada that was just murdering women and I
think it was in the hundreds.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Did he feed Yeah, yeah, it's a bad one. It's
so I wouldn't tell that it's yours, okay, because it's
too dark, it's too it's too something for me. Even
I don't know why. Yeah, too many pigs, too many pigs. No,
it's just yeah, I don't know. Well, so there's it's

(07:33):
making a murderer, Oh okay, in a lot of different ways.
Go ahead, Well, there's just a there's been a bunch
of and this is very in America. I think our
version of it is women of color, black women that
get murdered, and it's just as if no one talks
about it.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Isn't you. You see all the little blonde girls are
always on the news if they are go missing or
are murdered, but it doesn't happen with black women. And
so the Canadian version I think is Indigenous women in
women is the incorrect term for it. But so the
there's the Highway of Tears where when we're disappearing on it,
Robert Picton, they named another guy that I didn't recognize

(08:10):
the name. How Picton is the right lesson?

Speaker 2 (08:13):
And you know what, I want to do a mass
murderers because I feel like I won't give enough time
to each of the women. I'd rather do this is
what the victim was, Who the victim was? Their story? Right,
then here's who the murderer was. And it's like and
there's nineteen women, right yeah, no, then that's okay.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
This is bad, that's but anyway, it's it's like hundreds
of Indigenous women have gone missing in the last say,
if I could open this article, I would god, I
would be accurate with But no, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
I have I can give you my WiFi connection. I
know every time you get upset that let's pause it.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
No, no, no, no, no, it's fine. Because the general idea
is just what Nico Case was trying to get the
word out about, and I retweeted it on our Twitter
feed as well as just the government is trying to
do something about it. They're trying to find the women,
they're trying to investigate the murders. They're trying to actually
put a focus and say, these women are important, just
as important as anybody else, and we're going to do

(09:10):
something about this, which is humongous. Did that a country
like on the whole would just admit that they haven't
up until this point, and now they're going to It's.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Incredible, It's really great. That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
It's very hopeful to me about like this. It feels
like a new era in crime.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
The name of the article is just how an unflinching
gaze on missing and murdered Indigenous women might move Canada forward. Incredible,
very cool, And I was right as the CDC News.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
I'll take it.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
If it's even that small, I will take an accuracy moment.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
I will not take it away from you. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
I appreciate it. That's I mean, that's really the whole story.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
That's I'm still trying to think of a way that
we can donate part of the proceeds or like help
someone with the untested rape kit situation. Marshika, Marishka, Mariska Hargitet,
thank you. I want to give her all my money
and like, do it help. Georgia was in a manic

(10:13):
episode and Karen.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
She gave a multi millionaire all her money and Karen.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Totally was like do it so so George, Karen, I
think that's a really it all ends in a lawsuit
between you and I. Oh, I didn't see that because
of my undiagnosed manic.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
No, I don't we call it the big giveaway Georgia
really just no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
I think that's a really good idea.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
I would loved the proceeds of something that we earn
money for because this podcast goes to those untesteds.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
We have live shows, like were you guys were in
the fucking process of like having live shows be a
part of our lives.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, and a part of your lives. Texas, We're going
to invite people Texas. What we got some numbers back.
That was a brag, but we got some numbers back,
and hey, Texas, turns out you like it. I was
so surprised by that. We both started laughing so hard.
But it makes sense. Yeah, that's Texas.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Texas has some good murders.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Texas knows what they're talking about in terms of murder.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Can I just say that once we got all this,
we got all this information about our numbers, and then
we were driving home and we almost had to pull
over to start crying with how happy we both were.
But how well this is how like? How what a great?
It's pretty nice, pretty great.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
It's pretty nice that we're we're getting popular because we
talk about death.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah, I think that's lovely. I love you guys. Thanks
for listening. Okay, I have a ques. Thank you very
much for listening. Before I talk about our T shirts,
I want to say that on the Facebook page right now,
this is fucking incredible. And because last week I talked
about we talked about breaking and entering and how can
you tell if a break in a stage or a
robbery's stage or real? All right, someone on the Facebook

(11:54):
set page said something about it real being faked. I
may be able to help you out, but da da,
I'm a real life burglar. Not anymore, but like seven
years ago, I did two and a half years for
home burglary and I know a lot about it. Hold on, please,
hold are you gonna freak out? Is this a woman? Yeah?
What a girl burglar?

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yep?

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Fucked, she says. I'm not doing that anything like that anymore.
Now I'm just completely reformed and clean, So don't hate me.
I'm just so proble to answer questions about how real
life burglars do their work. So it's an ama from
a fucking lady burglar. Yes, and everyone everyone in the
podcast is like I mean on the Facebook page is
like just giving her all the props she deserves and

(12:35):
asking so many questions. So just look up.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Now I'm gonna be the and now I'm gonna be
the anti voice. That's like, I think it's wrong to
promote crime.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Right, No, it's not. I just scrolled down and there's
like so many hilarious memes, the one of of what's
his name from SNL eating popcorn listening, Oh yes, Bill Hater,
Bill Hater with these crazy eyes. Yeah, it's just like
so many great questions. I can't even get to them all,
but so you guys just to go if her name
is Nikki and Akki and just like search that's not

(13:05):
a real name. I know. Search on the Facebook page
like Burglar, you'll find it.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Oh my god, I can't wait to I've missed that.
I haven't been on there in a little while.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
You didn't have time to even read it. I just
got so excited about it. And then if I can
pull my notes from under my cat. I also want
to say that we have our main logo T shirts
available for the first time. It's on teespring dot com
slash my favorite Murder. It's just a short run from
now whenever is now until August twenty third, just to

(13:34):
see how it goes. So go buy one of those.
There's also hoodies.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Oh. Someone on Twitter asked, are they one hundred percent
of cotton or are they Caughton poly Blend.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
I don't know. And that you can absolutely get that
information on t spring. Oh, tay Spring has fucking size
sharts and all that information.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Oh nice, you know exactly what you're getting on teespring.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, and they're like anything you're not happy with you
can return beautiful. It's an easy it's an actual self
operating business. Yes, so we're Georgia have to become the
president of T shirt company for a couple of months,
we got to get an intern. Yeah, you know, it's
like make that dough or just don't have the stress,

(14:13):
and yeah, I mean we're edging toward it. Yeah. I
also want to say really quickly that in therapy and
therapy one of the things I talked about was that
how crazy I am and how much anxiety I am.
I have because when I go to the back of
my building to do laundry, I lock my front door
and how crazy is that that I think someone's going

(14:33):
to break in? And then I read an article there's
a fucking Echo Park rapist and one of the ways
he got into her house was when she was doing
fucking laundry in the back of her apartment and she
left her door unlocked and went in.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
There is it's it's not anxiety when you're just being careful.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
I texted my therapist and the article and said, in
your face, pit no, because she was like, you know, yeah,
now she doesn't want to see me anymore.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
I know, she said find someone else.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
So she was because she was like, you know, we're
to take certain precautions and that's okay, and you can
do that, but when you start, you know, blah blah blah.
Then it's so she supported it, and I was like,
I feel so justified.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, you are justified, you know, so it's supported. I
bet Nikki she'd be like nicky.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
It would be like, yeah, that was an obvious The crime.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Community says, you're doing the right thing.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Thank you crime community for supporting me. Uh well, also
that's good.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
I mean Jesus Christ to know, right, Yes, hey, there's
no shame in locking things.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Double I lock.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
People will walk by in the crosswalk and they're part
of my brain goes, they might be able to hear
it if you lock the door.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Whatever.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
It's like, I don't give a shit, it doesn't matter much.
Louder voids that says sorry to offend you, but you
don't get to in case you had the idea, right,
maybe you're on some white drugs.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
So like you're sitting at a stop sign and someone
goes to walk by and you go click to lock
your car door. Yeah yeah, and you're like, well, they're
gonna get mad at me. Fuck you, well, because you creepy.
That's a good way to let someone know they like creepy.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, I get the idea, because you're giving me the eye. Yeah,
so yeah, don't We've said this a million times. Fuck politeness,
Fuck politeness.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, there could be new listeners who don't yet know
to fuck politeness.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Oh yeah, fuck politeness. And oh you'll learn. There's a
ton of stuff.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
You'll have a lot of experiences in your life that'll
make you make you question.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
How about if you're going between the laundry room and
your house, lock your goddamn don't lock your fucking door.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Lock you.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
If you live in a major city or not at
your parent's house, lock your door.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
It feels really good because literally that that was a worry.
Every single time I walk out back is, I come
in the door and I check for the cats because
if the cats were still out where they were, that
meant no one was in there, because but if they
were hiding, that would mean someone came in the house. Right,
that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
No, that's a good theory. That's a theory based on observation.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah. Cool, Yeah, high fives all around, Thank y'all, Thank
you to you too.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Is that all our housekeeping? Last time we had so much?

Speaker 2 (17:02):
I think that was a lot.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Oh yeah, the dallop sold out, so that's not a
La podfast yeah, September twenty the weekend of September twenty third.
That's going to be fun in the ballroom, in the ballpit.
We are performing in a ballpit. We got that awesome
tweet from let me let me name her by name,
give her.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Give her Twitter a shout out. She needs all the
followers ballpit girl.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
We had announced last week that we were excited because
we were in the ballroom, and then we were talking
about maybe that's a good thing.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
It sounds really good. And then.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Someone named blythe Bourgeois on Twitter blithe they do is
her is her handle sent us a picture of basically
like the the Ikea ballpit and it said how great
would it be if this was the ballroom at La.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Ballest And we both laughed so.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Oh for such a long time. So now we are
doing our live show in the ballpit at La Podfest.
Be there if you can, and if you can't be there,
you can live stream it. I just got emailed the
information about that live stream.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
So next week we will give everybody what we know,
or at least more information than I'm going to be
able to give you right now. Yeah, but yeah, you
can watch it if you can't be there. You can,
I think, pay a nominal fee and watch whoever you
want to watch live, which is really cool.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
It's going to be a great The whole podcast fest
is like a bunch of bad asses, so many cool people.
Yeah yeah, yeah, right is a time. It's time time
to shine. It's time for us to guess who went first.
Last time. I'm positive you went first.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Okay, but that doesn't mean anything because I'm always wrong.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Nor your confidence in that is all that mattered. Because
I was really excited that you were confident about it,
so I believe it.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Here's what I learned. So last week I came prepared
with two because I thought Georgia needed to pre record,
oh right, and so I had gotten a jump on
my research on this EW. So then but then we
didn't have to do too So I was like, oh
good because I kind of half asked that second one.
So now I got to like ass and a half

(19:12):
this one because I had a jump on it, which
is kind of you know, this is all a journey
about me doing my homework. Oh man, but I'm excited
about it.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Guilty about every week. Yeah, that I don't do enough.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
I don't think we understood when we started this what
it was actually going to turn into, which was the
seriousness of accuracy in facts. We discussed a lot, but
I mean, yeah, here we are, episode twenty nine going
oh yeah, yeah, we have to know what we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yes, kind of irritating to me.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Try So, I've known about this one for a long
time because it was made famous by that great American
television show, America's Most Wanted Hell yeah, do you remember
the America's Most Wanted about John List, the man who
killed his entire family and then disappeared for nineteen years.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yes, yes you do.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yes, that's my favorite murder for this week.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Let me hear it.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
I'm going to tell you all about it, all right.
So John List was a successful business man. He was
a devout lifelong Lutheran. He was a Sunday school teacher.
He was a boy Scout leader, a husband, a father
of three. His family lived with his mother, so their grandmother,
in a sprawling nineteen room mansion called Breeze Knowle Jesus

(20:27):
in Westfield, New Jersey. But behind closed doors things were
not going well.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Shocking.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
This is me kind of trying to write like a
you know, twenty twenty version of this.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
This is this is a narrative.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
This is I'm really trying to put something into this
and it might not really work out that well because
it feels a bit sweaty right now. I feel like
I'm trying.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well, it's hot in hh. It also is very often.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
It's summer in Los Angeles. So John lifts List's wife Helen,
which they didn't None of this you knew from America's
most Oh I love this stuff.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Tell me his wife.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Helen was an alcoholic who was verbally abusive and unstable.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
She sounds fun.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
When you see the picture of the List family, her
eyes are going in two different directions.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Was she dressed well though?

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yes, it was the picture I think was from like
the mid sixties, so they look like any family.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Oh my god, I just picture her at like a
party and she's just drunk and like, but she looks amazing, Yes,
I love it.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Like she's got like a Jackie O outfit on. But
her face is like is just like kooky eyes and
like bubbles above.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Her head, like talking loudly about their bedroom secrets.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Oh yeah, girl, you just nailed it.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Shut up, okay ready, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
So, uh she demanded that John by her that colonial
mansion in Westfield, which is a very ritzy apparently town
in New Jersey, or was in the sixties and seventies
when John landed his high status position as bank vice
president and comptroller, which is one of my favorite words

(22:01):
in the English language. So good comptroller. I don't know
what it means. I love to say, I'm running for
comptroller this year.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
So what no one knew is that John had recently
been fired from being the.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Bank president and comptroller stress and.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
He, even though he was an ambitious career man, could
never hold a job for more than a couple of
years because of his personality problems, personality issues quote unquote,
oh my god, uh huh. But he couldn't let his
family know that he had gotten fired. So every day
he got up and he put on his suit, and
he grabbed his briefcase, and he went to the train
station like he was going to work.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
And he was people terrifying me.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yes, it's such deep denial, it's insane denial of like
everything's fine, and then there's crazy things boiling underneath those people.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Man.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, So he would sit at the train station and
read newspapers all day until it was time to quote
unquote come home from more.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Holy shit, right.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
And meanwhile he was skimming money off of his mother's
bank account so he could pay his crazy mortgage on
his colonial nineteen room mansion, and all the other bills
are piling up. So in short, John list was Lutheran
fuck up under pressure. That's what I wrote.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
That's good. So here's his plan.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
He on the morning of November ninth, nineteen seventy one,
after his children had left for school, John walked into
the kitchen where his wife was drinking her morning coffee
at the kitchen table, and he walked up and he
shot her in the back of the head with a
nine millimeter handgun.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Then he went upstairs to the third floor of their mansion,
where his mother had her own like what are the
it's sweet, Yes, her own little apartment wing wing, Yeah,
a wing of the mansion. And he shot her in
the head, right over her left eye, which to me
sounds like he shot her face to face. Oh yeah,

(24:06):
which is pretty intense. Then he drove to the bank
and he closed his account and his mother's accounts, and
he cashed in his mother's savings bonds.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
He came home, he went to his study.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
He collected some old photos and documents concerning the mansion's history,
and he put them in a neat pile on his desk,
and he composed a letter, a thank you letter to
John Wikey, who was a descendant of the original owner
of the house. Shit, you know the important stuff. Yeah,
and then he also wrote four other letters. He called
Barbara Bader, who was the woman who carpooled his sons

(24:40):
John and Fred to Roosevelt Junior High School, and she
had done that for the last time that morning. He
made an excuse that the whole family was leaving to
go to North Carolina the next morning because Helen's mother
was extremely ill, and he promised that he would let
her know when they were coming back. Then he canceled
the newspaper milk delivery, and he asked the post office

(25:02):
to hold the mail until further notice. Was there going
to be further notice?

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Absolutely not, Nope.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
So now it's lunchtime, so he made himself a lunch. No,
sat down at the table where he had just shot
his wife, and then cleaned up the blood off the table.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Baloney or called meat low.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
I would guess blooney because he's just like, he's all business.
He just wants to get proteins and calories.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Balooney on white with mustard, with mustard only, And so
do they have potato chips? Back then?

Speaker 1 (25:35):
I would don't think John lyss would eat potato chokes.
I think he would eat two sandwiches instead of having
a delicious side.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Karen, that was the best. That was what I was
looking for because I love food details. That's my opinion
of John Lyst's. No, that was that was beautiful.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, that's the kind of stuff. I can't understand that, Like,
that's such a dude move where I'm like, you could
have chips the only thing you want with a sandwich?

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, and stiggle down pickle slices.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Pickles are nice. Yeah, but I always you know me
and the starches.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Oh right, well sure everyone, but you just don't keep
them in your house. I don't eat them all, that's right,
I mean, not you one one.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
So then he went around and cut himself out of
every family photo in the entire house.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Why is that the craziest part? That is to me?

Speaker 1 (26:23):
I did it as a standalone because it's the creepiest
fact to me in this whole case, it's so fucking creepy.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Is so creepy.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Then come now, it's early afternoon, so he's waiting for
his children to come home from school. Patricia who was sixteen,
a drama nerd, and it was the it was nineteen
seventy one, so she had been caught smoking pot. Oh,
she was the coolest, she was cool, and she came home.

(26:53):
He shot her in the back of the head, honey.
Then his son Frederick, the youngest, who is thirteen, came
home shot him in the back of the house, babe.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
So they didn't even know that their father.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
No, and he and he actually in the court later
revealed that that he did it his wife and his
kids back of the head, so that they didn't know
what happened. But mom is a different story. His mother
was a different story, which is very telling me. Let's
get to tell me more. But then also John Junior
is a different story, the fifteen year old who was
named after him and supposedly his favorite. There was like

(27:26):
a couple different versions of this. Some said he just
came straight home from school. But the one I like
the best, which is the one I will tell, is
that he had a soccer game that day, so John
list drove to the school, watched his son's soccer game,
drove him home, tried to shoot him, but he maybe

(27:46):
saw the gun and freaked out, so he ended up
shooting him in the face and chest over ten times. Wow,
so overkill, crazy, fucking overkill, and knew what was happening
as it went.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Once in the chest and once in the face. I
get something went worse than wrong that or he hated
him more like something went especially wrong for ten times.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yes, because this was a man that was doing it
like neatly and cleanly and pretending systematically. He was like
checking off a list. But when it came this guy
wasn't it John Junior didn't play ball and made it
hard for him.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
And I think that's like the rage came. Oh yeah,
like how dare you? You're making this too hard for me?
Not even like you're showing me how what horrible I am?

Speaker 1 (28:36):
No, no, no, you're ruining my plan, You're ruining my good time.
Oh my god, it's hideous. So then he dragged he
got sleeping bags from downs from the basement, and he
put all the bodies on the sleeping bags, then dragged
them into the back of the house to what room
the ball room?

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yes, what if we just had sleeping bag set up
on stage with us the ballroom another show and we.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Have a contester who can drag who around the furthest Yeah,
they had a ballroom in this mansion that wasn't even
decorated or furnished in any way. That's how big this
house was. And so he pulled his wife and three
children's dead bodies on sleeping bags back into the ballroom.
He put a piece of cloth over each of their

(29:22):
faces and he left them there, turned it into basically
like a makeshift morgue. Then he fed the children's pet
fish in the twenty gallon tank in the dining room.
What went upstairs and went to sleep?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Holy shit?

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, so he's are the fish? Okay, that's the kind
of thought this man is having.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Are the fish? Okay? Is this I mean as much
as because I need to put a name on things.
Is this sociopath?

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Oh we'll talk about the name later, but he probably
I mean, I don't know enough anytime.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
It's like, clearly you have no feeling.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, that's what I want to label it as. But
he is the real term for this guy is a
family annihilator. Yeah, and it's like a thing that happens,
and there's a couple of different kinds.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
And they'll never kill anyone else again. Kind of a thing.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yes, right, it's a situational thing for them.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah, tell me more. Okay.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
So the next morning, he gets up, he gets dressed,
he goes downstairs, he turns the thermostat all the way down,
he turns on every light in the house, and then
he leaves the house and he leaves Westfield forever. Now,
the weird thing is no one noticed. Of course, no
one in the neighborhood noticed that this family was not there.

(30:43):
And that's because they this family did not socialize, which
is kind of common if you have a crazy drunk
loom like they stayed in.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
They didn't talk to anybody.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
The neighbor's new John List is the guy who mowed
his lawn in a suit and tie.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Jesus. I think the most suspicious part would be that
all the lights are on, That's right, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, Like, nobody, especially in a nineteen room mansion. You're like, sorry,
nobody's in the green house.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Nobody's in the brightest house on the block, it's they're
not having a party.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
So because of all this careful planning and because they
were basically anti social and reclusive, it took a full
month for anybody to actually discover these bodies. A month,
a full month. So the neighbors noticed that these lights
were on day and night, and that they were always on,

(31:39):
and that they started burning out, and that's when they
started getting suspicious.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Well that's creepy. Can you imaginee? Like one room is
out and then the next room is.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Out, yeah, and never comes back on, and no one's
coming in or out of the house. So something super
creepy is happening up there. But also you don't want
to think about it because what could it be that
would be that weird? But who does this is the
most cinematic, I think of all the stories, because Patty's
drama teacher is the one who's like, I don't like

(32:08):
the smell of this.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
His name was Edwin Iliano, and he thought it was
weird that the entire family was gone that long. And
also he had a terrible feeling because Patty once told
him if his family goes on vacation, my dad has
killed us.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
I knew she talked to him about something. Yeah, she
said that she said it to him. So after you know,
twenty eight days. Oh, and he'd also met him once
and thought he was super weird. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
So after twenty eight days, Iliano convinces his associate, barber
shared And to go to the house with him to
check on Patty. And they drive up there. They try
to look into some windows, and their being there makes
the neighbors call the cops because they see people finally
on the property. Yeah, and when the cops show up,

(33:00):
one explains to them it's oh the neighbors William and
Shirley Kunnock are their names. They're the ones that call
the police, and patrol officers George ze Hellsnick and Charles
Heller were the first to arrive. So Ileano explains what's
going on, and the officers decide they're going to force
open a window and go inside.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
And when they open that window, they're hit with the
smell of dath thanky.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
So I forgot this might be my creepiest detail.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
All good.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
When they go into the house, the first thing they
notice is that there's organ music playing loudly over the house.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Intercom. I'm gonna cry. I'm gonna cry because there's an
intercom in this house. Mm hmm, because there's organ music.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
So you're jealous of the intercom.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah, and organ music is the
creepiest thing.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
John List set up. They kept calling it a recorder
and all these articles that I read. When you do research,
you realize everyone rips everybody off. It's hilarious, insane, So
calling something a recorder makes no sense. It sounds like
it's the instrument children play in grammar school. Yeah, which
would be even creepier, just a child playing the recorder
really loud, where it's like, oh god, no, okay, that's

(34:11):
gonna go deep go on. He had set up a
thing that just played this music on a loop until
you physically turned it off and then set it to
play over the intercom.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
It was like an old machine or something, I guess.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
So I mean they call a recorder maybe a recording
device or like a reel.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
To reel place. Yeah, that sounds right because it was
seventy one. Let's go with that. Uh so uh oh.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
I said two things. Organ music is good for ice
skating and mass murdering. See it's I'm trying too hard. Now,
you need to keep a cat conversational. So upstairs in
the study they find a five page letter that Liszt
had written to his pastor, Eugene Wrenwinkle. Sorry, I don't know,
it's it's like bad writing, like what should we name

(35:00):
the old pastor of the Lutheran Church Eugene Renwinkle?

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Oh God, I love it.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
So in that letter, he said he felt the seventies
were a sinful time and that his family was beginning
to succumb to temptation, especially his daughter because of her
interest in acting, which is an occupation that Liszt viewed
as being particularly corrupt and linked to Satan, which is true.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Fucking slayed them all, what's that?

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yes, so the holy religious thing to do is kill everybody.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
John, So it was like he thought it was like
a mercy killing. That's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Uh, he saw too much evil in the world. He'd
killed his family to save their soul.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
That's very nice of you, he fucking dick.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
And also how giving. Now he said he didn't kill himself.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Because yeah, well, let's hear it.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
He didn't kill himself because suicide is a mortal sin
that would definitely bar him from heaven, as opposed to
murdering five people, where you're still in a gray area
that can be negotiated. What are you talking.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
About, narcissism, extreme narcissism, sociopathy.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
I definitely narcissism. I don't think the sociopath thing might
not apply, only because.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
This is the one off people get mad at, people
get It's a five off. Sorry, that's a five off. Okay.
We're not saying all narcissists or murderers, right, but however,
this is an extreme case.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Of Yeah, it's a it's an element in this personality disorder. Yeah,
I'm a narcissist. I've never killed anybody except for in comedy.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Boo, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
Later, a reporter who covered the trial described hearing this
letter when it was read aloud in court, and he said, quote,
I'll never forget the audible sigh of shock from the
jury and spectators when the last line of lists read
letter was read. PS. Mother is in the hallway in
the attic, third floor. She was too heavy to move. Oh,

(37:00):
oh my god, dang, that's your mom.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah. It's like he's moving like a moving box that
you just like couldn't.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yeah, someone take care of that upstairs, Like it's your leather.
Do you think you might have had a slight problem
with her?

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah? Okay, So.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
A nationwide manhunt is launched, but he's got a month
lead time, he's way ahead. Police investigated hundreds of leads
without success. All reliable photographs of List had been destroyed.
So it wasn't I was creeped out. It turns out
it was kind of like super smart. Yeah, oh, I
didn't get I didn't catch on to that. I did

(37:39):
not either. The family car was found at Kennedy Airport,
but there was no evidence he had boarded a flight.
He was gone and would remain gone for eighteen years. Then,
on May twenty first, nineteen eighty nine, forward forward into
the eighties. Yay, the murders were recounted on America's Most Wanted,
which at the time had been on the air less

(38:00):
than a year.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
And it featured an age progressed age progressed, sorry, age
progressed clay bust sculpted by the forensic artist Frank Bender,
and it turned out to bear an almost exact resemblance
to List's appearance.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Maybe I'm making this up. But I fucking remember seeing that.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
No you remember, because I'm about to hold up a
picture to you, all.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Right, Oh my god, Oh my god. I was nine,
so I was like old enough to remember this.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yes, and this was I remember it. I was nineteen,
oh gram on baby Yeah. Bender consulted a forensic psychologist
and created a psychological profile of List. He looked at
photographs of List's parents and predicted what he would look
like as he ate Holy shit. He gave him a
receding hairline and sagging jaws. Bender was particularly lauded for

(38:51):
one final touch he added to his completed artwork. It
was a pair of glasses. Bender believed List would not
be vain enough to wear contact lenses. However, he said
would have worn a pair of glasses different from those
he wore before the murders. He said they would be
a pair with thick, dark frames. He and the psychologist
theorized that Liszt would do this to hide in a sense,

(39:12):
he would want to disguise the fact that he was
a failure and appear more important than he really was.
Ohly shit, so he put these big old glasses. Remember that, dude,
I remember this is real. John List, this is that sculpture.
We fuck, it's fucking like exact. Oh my god, you
guys look this up right now, Stephen, isn't that crazy.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
We'll put it. We'll put it on uh social media.
I'll put this on our instat.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
But this Frank Bender nailed it so literally. Less than
two weeks later, they got a ton of calls. But
less than two weeks later they find him in Virginia,
and the hilarious part is in the court. Uh John
List reveals he was watching the show that night with
his new wife, and he was quoted saying, I was

(40:01):
perspiring like anything.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
But his wife didn't recognize him, no way. She had
a fucking she had a veil of I can't over
her fucking eyes. And I bet a little vin Rose,
a little rose, a little bottle of rose.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
She had all kinds of different veils.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Uh yeah, a veil. Yeah, Okay. So they go to trial.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
He explained that he had lost his job. He explained
he was dealing with his wife's alcoholism, and trial reveal
her untreated tertiary syphilis that she had contracted from her
first husband, an army lieutenant who was killed in combat
in Korea, and concealed.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
For eighteen years.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
So his crazy wife that used to verbally abuse him
and publicly. Uh oh, maybe I skip that part, but
there's oh no, it's in this part. He says in
court that she used to publicly insult him about Uh wait.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Did I guess that completely? Yes, you absolutely guessed it. Yeah, Well,
syphilis makes you go fucking bernanas he List said bye.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
By then, the disease and her excessive alcohol consumption had,
according to testimony, transfer transformed her from an attractive young
woman to an unkempt, paranoid recluse who frequently and often
publicly disparaged List, comparing his sexual skills unfavorably to those
of her first husband, the one who gave her syphilis.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
And syphilis Jesus, that scared the shit out of me.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
So here's me playing the prosecuting attorney. Mister Lisz, can
you explain how your wife often disparages your sexual skills
in public? If she's a recluse, No more questions your
honor and I turn around, slam my blazer down onto
the chair.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
All right.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
So basically, John List makes all these excuses in court.
He's like, I have PTSD from being in the army.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
I Uh, what else do you say?

Speaker 1 (42:12):
I oh wait a.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Smoker?

Speaker 1 (42:17):
He Oh it was my wife. My kids were going crazy.
I was abused as a child. My father always told
me that you had to provide for your family and
that you had to do this and you had to
do that. And I wasn't doing anything any of those
things because I lost my job.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
So a court appointed psychiatrist testified List suffered from obsessive
compulsive personality disorder and he only saw two solutions to
a situation except welfare or kill his family and send
them to heaven. And welfare was unacceptable because it would
expose him in his family to ridicule and violate his

(42:56):
authoritarian father's teachings.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
So this is a common thing with family annihilators. They
say that there are two types, and one is a livid,
coercive killer, and those are the ones that are usually abusive,
and they kill the family when the family tries to
run away from them. So it's years of abuse, years
of abuse, the family tries to escape, and then it's like, let.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Me see those all the time. I'll teach you all.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yes, but the other kind is the civil reputable killer,
and they're motivated by a perverse form of altruism. So
it's his way of rescuing the family from shame and hardship.
And in his obsessive, compulsive narcissism, John List didn't choose
to fix his own problems, but instead he fixated on

(43:42):
the family problems and the problems of society. Eighty one
percent of family annihilators kill themselves after killing their family.
So that's when, in my opinion, John List's argument of
this I was doing the best for the family breaks
down because he went on to live a happy life

(44:04):
for nineteen years in Colorado. And what sorry, the part
that I was skipping over is he basically told everybody
what happened was the day after the murders, he took
the train from New Jersey to Michigan, and then from
Michigan to Colorado. He settled in Denver. He took an
accounting job as Robert Peter Bob Clark. And that's subtle, yeah,

(44:28):
kind of plain, but then also exciting, yeah, exciting, pick
one of those names. He was the controller at a
paper box manufacturer Control Denver. He was They said controller,
I want to say.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Comptroller, you know what, it's our fucking story to tell,
that's right. And then what he do.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
He joined the Lutheran congregation, ran a carpool for shut
in church members, and met an army PX clerk named
Lauris Miller and married her in nineteen eight It's almost
like he's.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Trying to prove to himself that he's actually a good person.
It was just circumstantial.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
It was them, his wife, his alcoholic, syphilitic wife, his
hippie daughter, his rebellious children.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
They ruined it for him. I feel like in the
fifties that might have worked better than in the seventies
and eighties that excuse or like especially the eighties, but
that came to an end. It seems like.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Right because well that was also like the oldest version
of like there's only a father that's the breadwinner, it's
never the mother, and no one gets divorced, and this
is the American dream. You have to have a house
and two kids. All that bullshit everyone got sold that.
Everyone kind of had to swallow hole. Basically. Also, John

(45:45):
List was abused as a child, which is a very
common thing in family and annihilators because they get they
feel powerless. They felt powerless as children, so when they
have families, they're power over the family to give them
that power.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
That they're in charge exactly, and then when that doesn't work,
they don't know how to deal with it. Oh man,
when when the seventies come and the daughter's like, I'm
gonna go crazy.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah, when there's a fucking cultural revolution in the country
and your daughter's like, I think I might want to
act instead of being a devout Lutheran.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Yeah, uh yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
So they they're trying to create the life they never
had that they fantasize of as abused children, right, and
then when that goes to shit, they're just like, well
we're starting over.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah essentially, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I guess the the bet this has a great twist
ending so that he was He was convicted of five
counts of murder of uh and the judge said John
John emmil List is without remorse and without honor. After
eighteen years, five months and twenty two days, it's now

(46:59):
time for the voices of Helen Alma Patrick, Patricia Frederick
and John F. List to rise from the Grave's beautiful
and he imposed a sentence of five terms of life
imprisonment to be served consecutively. It was the maximum penalty,
and Liszt died of pneumonia in prison on March twenty first,

(47:19):
two thousand and eight. Wow, his body was not claimed,
because who's gonna fucking claim it? Like for a long time,
he really did. The second wife didn't return the call,
and the more was like, oh we have your she's
hello hello. But eventually someone took him back and he
was buried next to his mother in Michigan.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Ow, she's like, fuck this guy, Yeah, get out of here.
He showed me the fucking face and then wouldn't even
carry me to the ballroom.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
But are you ready for this twist ending though, Oh
that's not it?

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yeah, this is it.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
So somebody burnt down Breeze Noll the Great, the Great Mansion.
No one's ever even looked into. Who might have done it?

Speaker 2 (48:00):
The ghost? Did it? Cold been a ghost, could have
been a ghost fire.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
There's a New Jersey ghost fire. But destroyed along with
the home was the ballroom stained glass skylight, which was
a signed Tiffany original worth at least one hundred thousand
dollars at the time, which would have covered his expenses.

(48:25):
It was right there the whole time in that room.
You didn't go in because you couldn't deal with it.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Oh, oh my god, that's gonna be someone's new Ringtown.
By the way, that's John that's John List, everybody.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Also, because he disappeared in seventy one in dB Cooper
dB Cooper, they thought he was Dbop a while because
he kind of looks like that sketch. Yeah, mister veg
and she dB Cooper sotled two hundred thousand dollars, which
was kind of around They figured around how much John
List owed.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Ok, sure it wasn't him.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
John List vehemently denied it from jail. That's how fucking
boring this guy is. No, I'm no, I insist I'm
not dB Cooper. Well it could have been cool if
you were.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Yeah, but maybe he doesn't. I bet it was him. No,
he was.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
I don't think this guy would have jumped out of
a plane. He was too scared to tell his wife
he got fired.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Okay, you know, Okay, maybe he thought, I don't know,
just did Lutherans like Jesus. Maybe he thought Jesus would
help out. Yeah, Jesus did help out.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
He gave him a beautiful skylight a Tiffany skylight.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
The Lord said it was right there all along. I
thought whoever burnt that house down was fucking bum They
didn't know that too.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah, there was some rest agent that ran.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Up at the at the last. What do you know?
At least get the thick you ghosts and your arson?
All right, all right, what's yours?

Speaker 1 (49:52):
So?

Speaker 2 (49:52):
I have one that I learned about recently because it
happened recently, and we're gonna, Karen, We're going to do
a little playh Okay, this hold this theme? What is
this theme? Drama Drama Teachers? All right?

Speaker 1 (50:06):
You mean for this episode? Yeah, yeah, the Drama Teachers episode.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
All right. So Warena right w A r R I
E n A. Wareena Right was twenty six from New
Zealand and she went to Queensland, Australia on July twenty ninth,
twenty fourteen, just helibird friend's wedding checks into a motel

(50:30):
on August sixth, and then on the following day is like,
let's see who's on tender? Do you know this one? No? Okay,
so she fucking tinders. Beautiful girl checks like a little
bit a little gothy, but not you know, she's hot.
So she finds Gable toastes tender that he's this like

(50:51):
hot ladies man. They meet up outside of a bar
on the sixth I just want to say, by the
next morning, Wrena will be dead after falling from his
Gable's fourteenth floor balcony. That's how this goes. That's not good.

(51:12):
Back to that night, by nine pm, they're in his
apartment on the fourteenth floor, this beautiful building. So somehow Gable,
which is a great name, isn't it. It's his first name,
the first name I don't know, kind of like it.
For some reason, he starts recording what's going on inside

(51:34):
with a voice recorder. Police somehow extracted it from like
mobile phones that were found. I think it was tried
to They tried to delete, he tried to delete it. It
didn't happen. They were able to get it. So so
there's there's a whole uh, there's a whole conversation that's recorded.
So yeah, so I'm going to read, but yeah, ok,

(51:58):
I'm going to read. I highlighted your parts. Okay, oh
your your Warrena, I'm Gable, but let me read it
to you also, Okay. So at one am, the sound
recorder started and uh, it's later ceased, but the recording starts.
Music's heard, and twenty seconds into the recording, the man

(52:19):
states fuck me. At one o two am, the man
asks the female to chill and have a drink, and
she says she is.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
I'm a psycho drunk and do not test me.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Then at between five and eight the pair talk about death.
The male says, throw me off the balcony and that's it.
This is it. Boom. Then at one sixteen am there's
laughing sounds are heard, and sounds of hitting are heard
as well, but the music continues to play in the
background and that was scary, and there are soft sounds

(52:56):
of groaning. Okay. At one twenty nine am, the male says,
I don't like getting beaten up. At one thirty six am,
the argument begins when the female says she's leaving and
can't find her iPhone.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
She says, are you going to fucking untimey because I
will fucking destroy your jaw?

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Oh my god, and then Vin's unlocked the door and
scared the ever loving.

Speaker 4 (53:22):
She when you're talking about cannibal, hi baby, oh man, Elvis.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Ands abrol Okay, you're gonna tie me blah blah blah.
So at one thirty eighth the man says, I should
have never given you so much to drink. I thought
we were gonna have fun, and then he asks her
to calm down. At one am, the man asks the
female to stay, but says you're just a bit violent.
He offers to cook some food, and the conversation calms down.

(54:00):
At one fifty three am, drinks are more, drinks are poored.
Stop drinking, you guys. Yeah, what you already decided the
drinking's bad. Yeah. At two am, the occupant of the
apartment below is woken up by the noise. At two
ten am the audio recording. In the audio recording, the
male tells the female to relax and threatens to kick

(54:20):
her hourse ass. At two eleven am, there's sounds of
a struggle. A minute later, the sounds of rocks possibly
being thrown in the apartment is heard. At two fourteen,
the man says, that's enough, you've worn out. You're welcome,
you have to leave. The female, out of breath, says okay.
At two fifteen am, the man says, I thought you

(54:40):
were kidding, and I have taken enough this is fucking bullshit.
You're lucky I haven't chucked you off my balcony, you
goddamn psycho, little bitch. At to sixteen am, the female,
who is breathing heavily, accuses him of being sexist and
then says lay off, to which the male replies, seriously what.
At two seventeen am, the man says, you're a goddamn psycho.
I'm going to let you go. I'm going to walk

(55:01):
you out of this apartment just the way you are.
You are not going to collect any of your belongings.
You're just going to walk out, and I'm going to
slam the door on you. Do you understand if you
try and pull anything, I'll knock you out. Do you
understand the female? The female says, I'm so sorry, I
don't care, Okay, so the fall. At two seventeen am,
sounds of struggling and heavy breathing are heard. The man says,

(55:23):
let go of it, let go, let go, let go.
At two eighteen the first choking sounds are heard. Breathing
slows male, let it go. Sounds of a metallic object
dropping is heard. At two twenty am, the door a
door unlocks and the female states no. The sound of
glass of a glass door possibly being hit two twenty

(55:45):
The man says, who the fuck do you think you are? Hey?
The female says.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
The male says, you tried to kill me. Hah, well,
why did you try and hit me with that? Shut
your filthy mouth. The female, I'm not going to scream,
screams now. She's screaming no, no, no, no, no no.
The man says, it's all on recording. You know it's
all being recorded. The female want more nose. Just let
me go home. The male says I would, but you've
been a bad girl. And then the sounds are heard

(56:12):
of a door slamming shut. At police at this point
alleged that he left her out on the balcony. Missed
right on the balcony.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
The female says, just let me go home, Just let
me go home.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
At two twenty one am, a female's final words are hers,
just let me go home. Faint screaming is heard. You're
looking at me like I'm gonna it's horrible. Okay, so
put that down right. So the occupant in the apartment
below his here's a female repeatedly shouting no and then
sees two legs dangling down. So what's going on right

(56:50):
now is either she's crazy and drunk and jumping or
she's terrified of this person and trying to get to
the balcony below. Yeah, so the witness has in a
matter of seconds, I saw the person fall from the
balcony above mine. Oh. At two twenty one, a call
is placed from Gable's fell into his lawyer. The call

(57:12):
doesn't connect. At two twenty three, a triple O, which
I'm guessing is nine one one call is placed by
the woman in the apartment below. Police arrive of the scene,
and at the same time the fob key to his
apartment is activated. Close caption cameras capture a male believed
to be Gable, approaching the front entrance of the apartment,

(57:34):
and he walks back to the elevator and rides it
to the basement. At two twenty nine, sounds of walking
or herd in the audio recording, which is still going
from earlier in the night. So he has the phone
or whatever he's using to record what's going on with
him or in the apartment with him, with him, he's
like in the in the So sorry, he's recording this
entire evening, recording the whole thing. And people said he

(57:55):
might have done it because he was like a creepy
pervert and like to record these things, or he took
home a lot of women and this is a way
to assure that nothing. Oh, you know, just to have
it if they get crazy or if yeah, either way,
it's sketchy. Yeah. At three ten am, he orders a pizza. Yeah,

(58:17):
he says, a pizza of pizza supreme. Please. He orders
a fucking slice of pizza. At three twenty three am,
a calls place to his father. He says, hello, Dad,
I might have gotten a bit of a situation. I
met a girl for a date. She started getting aggressive.
We kept drinking and I think she thought it was

(58:39):
like a joke and she kept like beating me up
because she was really drunk. And I forced her out
on the balcony and I think she might have jumped off.
And the dad says, oh, no, are you okay? Yeah,
so there's a million cops booking walking around. I'm fucked up.
I don't have to do them, he says, I don't know.

(59:03):
I like I tackled her on my floor inside the building,
and I never forced her over the edge. So the
dad picks him up and eventually he's arrested and so, yeah,
so he's claiming he's innocent. She jumped, he has something

(59:25):
to do with it. He didn't push her over the edge.
It's not murder. He's he's set for trial on August
on October thirteenth, twenty sixteen, but he's free right now.
He's out on bond and he can't stop talking. He's
posting shit on like bodybuilders dot com. Oh no, he's
just he doesn't understand why people are blamed. He has

(59:47):
to be somewhat narcissistic. Yeah, Oh, you mean like he
needs to say his what his side of it is. Yeah,
but he's also saying things about how many women he's
been with and he's never hurt them. So he's like
bragging about that, how nice is a part apartment was?
How well he does saying it's a witch hunt. But

(01:00:08):
they prosecutors think he could be convicted for murder because
she was reportedly in fear of her life and was
trying to flee him to the apartment in those neighbors.
The prosecutors say that, oh okay, and I'm really interested,
I really like not like, but I'm really interested in
murder by suicide. I think it's really interesting. Like there's
that one case of there was the road rage incident

(01:00:31):
on a bridge in Detroit, and this man was coming
at the woman who had re ended him, and she
jumped off the bridge to get away from him.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yeah, that was actually a very famous, like one of
the earliest law and orders.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Really yes, oh wow, yeah, Well, and he was convicted
of murder or maybe manslaughter.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Because she just didn't know where else to go. It
was just like trying to get away.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
But also the idea of recording an entire evening just
to be sure in and of itself is suspicious to me.
Maybe what do you need to be sure of that
you have been in a position where this has been
a problem for you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Or maybe she just already was being a little crazy.
Oh so he started the recording. Yeah, not, I'm not
victim blaming. They were clearly very drunk. Well maybe he
liked to record his sex sex.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
But yeah, you're right. I mean, like she the things
that she's doing don't make a lot of sense. It's
not like it's doesn't seem like she's the only victim
at the beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah, it's not from what he's saying. But here's the thing,
he's the only one who knows what's being recorded. So
what he's saying about her attacking him, yeah, is very specific.
And someone on like a Reddit said, or maybe on
the Facebook page said, when my boyfriend was beating me up,
he'd say, he'd y'all stop it. What are you doing
to me? Why are you doing this to like get

(01:02:00):
the neighbors to think that she was doing something to him,
you know, just to fuck with her in her mind.
So it could be that it could just be and
what it sounds like happened from when I read the transcript,
which Ice fucking stayed up all night reading it, it
was like, it's so crazy, is you know they were

(01:02:21):
having rough sex. Maybe she wasn't completely coherent. She comes
to and is freaked out by it and is trying
to get out but doesn't know how, and he's telling
her to calm down. Because he tells her to calm
down a couple of times. I think at one point
she realized what was happening and picked something up to
throw at him, and he gets so angry at that
because you can hear him say, like, you've been a

(01:02:42):
bad girl. She's trying to defend herself. He's like, I'm
going to have to lock you out on the balcony
to like to protect myself. But she the whole time,
she's been the victim, and she's freaking the fuck out,
and she's drunk and fucked up, and so she thinks
the best option is to go over the side of
the edge and get to the balcony below.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Which, yeah, that's like something from a movie. It's like, yeah,
it only works when stunt men do it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Yeah, anyone in the right mind would never try that,
And so she clearly wasn't in her right mind.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
And is there proof that we know that she if
she drank, Like yeah, I know people who have are
almost like allergic to alcohol where they have one drink
and they're just like legless and out of their minds.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
No, I don't know, it's not like that. I don't
know what her blood alcohol lever was. I don't know
if they tested her for drugs. Maybe they're keeping all
of that for the trial.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Yeah, it sounds like that's the story. He's trying to
push that with this recording. Yeah, is like you've gone crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
But he's feeding her alcohol too. Yeah. So even if
it's like, well, look how drunk she was, I mean,
his own recording is it's going to be the thing
that convicts him.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
I feel like, well, it's super weird too. I can't
imagine if something terrible happened at my house, like horrifying,
like a person committed suicide, I wouldn't be ordering pizza
an hour later.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
No, I mean I wonder if he was so fucked
up and didn't know what's going on, it would almost
be like he would go lay down or something, or
go hide or you know, like I don't think.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
But also if you I mean this also, it just
immediately makes me think of The Night Of because The
Night Of presents you the story where you completely.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
I haven't watched that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
I have only watched the first episode, okay, but I
mean just in general, you empathize with the person that
they put in front of you because that's the story
you're getting, which is what happens a lot of the
time is whoever gets a.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Hold of that narrative, then you go oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
No, he would never do that, He's so nice or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Story yeah, and what people present you and then and
then the shit that they talk about the other person,
so in a way not to defend him. I have
no idea what's going on in this one.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
This is crazy, But it makes sense then that if
he's kind of out on his own, he's trying to
control the narrative by tweeting things and posting shit on
bodybuilders dot com or whatever you said. I mean, like,
then he's that's a person that's just scrambling and making mistakes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Yeah. I feel like the harder you try to defend
yourself on social media, the worse you see, the more
people can pick it apart. Yes, for sure, because I mean,
you know, web sleuths have gotten a hold of this,
the website, webluics have gotten a hold of this and
are like picking it apart, and they think there's been
some comments by fake accounts he's made. I just know

(01:05:37):
too much about the details. The details. Oh shit. Yeah,
it's like he's his own worst fucking enemy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Well, and also he's he's paying a lot of attention
to this, the process of this, right, which is very strange.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Yeah, it's going to be a hard one. I feel
like it's going to be a hard one. So sorry,
this just happened days ago twenty fourteen. Oh, oh okay,
but he's being you know, it's Australias. I don't know that.
I feel like he's being indicted or there's going to
be a trial to indict him on this on uh
in October?

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Oh okay.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Wow, from what I can tell from Australian legal keys,
it's not fucked up. Yeah, it's poor the poor girl,
but this whole situation. Guys don't meet strangers on tender
not Oh man, I'm going to get in trouble for
slut shaming. It's not slut shaming. But it's so crazy
that people just like that's just dating though.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Yeah, but I mean, like how about the girl, that
girl in Santa Monica that knew the guy for a
year roofeed or drank. I mean, bad things happen to people.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
It just happened.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Yeah, you're right, but this seems weird because you're the
idea that a person is recording an entire evening and
their fore knowledge of that recording and not telling the
other person that's there. There's a manipulation on the surface
of that that's suspicious for sure. And to me, it's

(01:07:05):
suspicious to say I record this because just in case
something happens and I need to defend myself where it's like,
but that's not an accurate defense because we can't see
what's actually happening.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
It's just your playlet. It's also weird at the very
end when he was like I've been recording that, Like
he uses it to throw it in her face somehow,
almost like you can't prove anything. Yeah, you can't prove anything,
or like why would he use that against her if
he you know, if nothing had happened that he could
call the cops for or press charges for well, And

(01:07:37):
also he never called the cops right now, and he
didn't let her go either, Like at one point she
was like getting my shit and I'm leaving, where's my phone?
And he like stopped her from leaving. Yeah, so she
was freaked out and wanted to leave too, both of them.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
You know, if you had a person this just will
throw this out there, if you was a person in
your house, you met on a tender day, so you
don't know them. You guys are drinking, they get a
little crazy, You're you're the guys, so they it's a
girl that tries to beat you up. So it's like painful, irritating,
not life threatening when they want to go, what would
be the why why would you keep them there? Like

(01:08:17):
this crazy? If you're keeping a crazy person in your apartment, yeah,
quote unquote so crazy that you know you're making more problems,
Like if they you just go, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Get out? What are you trying to get out of
the situation? If you want to keep the person who's
crazy and abusive towards you around, you're getting something out
of it or it's not as it seems right. Well,
there's a thing option that I mean abusive people. You know,
it's the gas lighting technique where abusive people are like
why are you being so crazy? Like this isn't that

(01:08:50):
big of a deal, and the people who that works
on it works very well well.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
And also you would get violent if you were like say,
tied up against your will or woke up whatever this
scenario was, where you would try your best to like
what are what are the rocks that got thrown indoors?

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
And what's that sar? I wonder if I mean, I
wonder if she was just almost incapacity, almost incoherent, you
know what I mean, where it's like you're not yet
you're just like you're aware that you're in a situation
that's not good because she's not forming complete sentences most
of the time.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Yeah, she's just saying she's reacting, right, that's right. M
that's crazy, I know. And then you have to assume
she was naked on the balcony too. Oh really, I
think so. She's definitely bare foot, but I don't I'm
not sure if she's naked. To check that out, I

(01:09:48):
didn't die, didn't the facts and things? Well, yeah, that's
locked up right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Yeah. I've been thinking about that one for a lot
for a long time. Are you okay?

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
I mean no, no, no, I just those ones just make
me keep on thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
The idea of recording an evening is super insane to me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
And also just like this weird day and age that
we live in, where like you could be recorded in
any time, yeah, like right now?

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Oh shit, Like wait, what are these microphones doing in
our faces? Should we do a hometown murder? Yeah? Should
we do? Should I read one? Will you open that door?
Oh my god? Because you're sweating.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
It's yeah, I'm dying, just I mean, and then just
whatever noises we get we get.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Okay, and then it should I play Matt McCarthy's voicemail. Yes, okay,
so our friend Matt McCarthy of course from uh that
we watch Wrestling Podcast. That just so happens. We had
a cameo earlier by Vince Abril. My husband who's also
from that podcast, sent us his finally sent Assa's hometown murder.
He's been telling me he's going to do it for
a buck an hour, and he did it, and I

(01:10:55):
haven't listened to it yet. I'm excited. Okay, awesome, really quickly.
Watch Wrestling Podcast is doing two live shows. I'm gonna
plug them to it. One is in LA on the
nineteenth of August and on the twenty sixth of August,
they're going to be in New York City Live Podcast
Comedy and Special guests. Go to brownpapertickets dot com. Where

(01:11:16):
are they in New York City? Do you know Vince
White Hotel? Nice? Yeah, And they're at the Copper Still
in Los Angeles. So I go to that. Oh right, cool?
All right, So Matt McCarthy, let's hear what he has
to say on you ready?

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
Yes, well, hello there it's your hotel. Matt McCarthy from
when we watch wrestling podcasts. Here to tell you about
my hometown murder. I am from also from the famous
Halloween party that introduced both of you, so listeners, I'm
the reason that the show exists anyway. Anyone from Rhode Island,

(01:11:56):
I'm from Rhode Island knows the name Craig Price. He's
the most notorious serial killer from Rover Hunt, also known
as the Warwick Slasher. In July nineteen eighty seven, Craig
Price was smoking pot. He broke into his neighbor's house
should the woman moved two doors down. She was moving.
There were boxes everywhere. She didn't even have a bed anymore.

(01:12:17):
She's just asleep in her living room watching vhe one.
He goes in, He looks at her, He stands over her.
He said that he with every fiber of his being,
he wanted nothing more than to kill. He goes into
the kitchen, find the knife, he stands over again, sits
down in her chair, watches her sleep, and he's standing
over her with a knife. Stabs her fifty eight times.

(01:12:39):
She had the point of the knife stuck in her shoulder,
and he said that let's dance by David Bowion was
on VGE one at the time. He was thirteen years old,
oh years later, and they had no idea who did it.
Two years later, he brings into another neighbor's house is

(01:13:00):
the entire family. The mom thirty nine, steps her eleven
times with knives she literally bought that day, killed the
ten year old girl, stabbed her what sixty two times?
Sixty two times, stabbed her three inches of the knife,

(01:13:21):
broke off the handle, and four girl's neck. The eight
year old he stabbed her seven times, then crushed her skull.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
No man.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
Also, during the attention, one of the girls bit him,
so he bit her face, then he hit the mother's face,
and then they eventually caught him because he cut his
hand open while he was stabbing them. And then like
years after this, it was the State of Rhode Island
trying to keep him in prison because he was a minut.
They caught him when he's fifteen, which meant by law

(01:13:54):
he would get out of jail as soon as he
turned twenty one juvenile. So then he's still in jail.
Now he's supposed to get out in twenty twenty. We'll
see what happened. He's now he'll be forty six weeks
out and I hear he likes grows with dark haired
named George and Karen.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
Oh, no, you think he'll get out sh I don't
think he'll get out. No, Oh my god, that's the
Rhode Island of all places. Thirteen. That's so crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
That's really young to stab somebody a ton of times.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
He had to be so mentally ill.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Yeah, that's horrifying. Good one, Matt.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
Thanks Matt McCarthy from seeing hilarious stand up comedian as
well as podcast, super hilarious stand up comedian who just
took claim for us meeting by the way, Oh did he? Yeah,
that's what he's in the beginning that in the beginning
when we're talking in the beginning of this podcast, when
we're talking about talking about murdered a Halloween party.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
That's right, Matt, it was his party. Genesis. Yep, there
it is.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Maybe Genesis was playing. Maybe David Bowie's Let's Dance was playing.
There's a very good chance.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
Oh my god, Wow, that was an intense episode.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Yeah, there's a lot going on. Yeah, comedy. Oh, speaking of,
we found out that one of the ways that we
get up on the charts on iTunes is when you
guys leave comments specifically, so I'm gonna fucking hill some
shit and ask that if you like this podcast or

(01:15:36):
don't like this podcast either way, can you leave us
a comment on iTunes, rate, review, subscribe. Karen, you look sad,
I'm not. I'm really hot and I'm a little bit tired. Okay,
let's have this shit then.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
But also, the people that have been rating and reviewing
and subscribings have put us at the top of the
charts week after wee get Sea. Thank you so much
for doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
It's amazing. This podcast makes us want to cry.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Yeah, we have a real good time. And while we cry.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Yeah, oh, Elvis, Elvis is with Vince because Vince gives
him all the cookies. Oh wait, hold on, all right,
well Karen, do you need to get your cat first? Karen? Oh,
stay sexy, don't get murdered. Bye.