302 - Whistles & Flags

On today's episode, Georgia and Karen cover the mystery of Havana Syndrome and the murder of Martha Brailsford.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
H h.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hartstar.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Thank you. That's Karen Calgara's.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Forgot my line was lost? I was lost there first.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
We haven't scripted this in years, so it could be
whatever you wanted to be.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I need to run my lines the night before and
then an hour before I look at the script. Karen
got six Please. I do love the idea of there
there's got to be podcasts out there, and not the
scripted act out ones, but like you know, somewhere there
are people doing podcasts that type up a script beforehand.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Like hello, welcome to this is that thing and listen
to what the podcast is about.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Casual conversation. There's a couple of them that I've listened
to because they're true crime ones where they have hosts,
but clearly they're actors playing hosts trying to They're just
trying to get the whole thing done. Yeah, talent, Like,
there's no one. It's not their podcast, right, it's just like.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
You have a great voice, can you present this true
crime podcast even though you have no interest in true
crime whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yes, there's some and it's not a judgment. It's just
a way of producing. Well, I mean what I'm saying,
you're a loud The goal isn't what we're doing. Let's
just say that. But this is all I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
The goals should never be what we're Please, please have
less of this out in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
But it's the thing where you can tell when people,
even if they're really good actors, you can tell when
they're not actually talking right, you know, from the soul
like I am right now.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's a talent to be this soulful and loose.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh god, this blue eyed soul over here. That's happening
every week on this show.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
It takes almost six years and three hundred episodes to
be this Lucy Goosey. You also forget that anyone's listening
is a great step in the process.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, and then you have to memorize the script and
forget it all, let it come out naturally, pretending. He
takes so many, so many acting classes for this book.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Now, as an actor, Karen, which you are, I don't know.
I just wanted to say actor.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Over the years, what I've realized is whatever drew me
to acting, it was just a kind of placeholder because
what I really wanted to do is stand up comedy
and acting. The job of acting sucks. It does sucks.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
What about I'm sorry, but real quick craft services like
you could get anything you want for breakfast, like anything, but.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
You can also do that outside that building with and
not fail. At the same time, you can just go
just go have a bunch of crazy eggs, right breakfast Casadia.
You can do that anymore.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
You can do it.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
You know what you can do. You can have dinner
for breakfast, just like you can have breakfast for dinner.
You can do it all meat, meat loaf, it's seven am,
I can oh.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Man. One time, like not long ago, Vins and I
were having breakfast at the diner and I saw a
couple next to us get chili cheese fries and it
was like ten am. I was like, I am allowed
to do that.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yes, you are. Similar to the time and this was
Stonestown in the mid late seventies. My aunt Kathleen took
me and my sister and my cousin Nancy to Stonetown,
which is the big mall in San Francisco down Nineteenth Avenue,
and they had this their Their food court was like
International Food, so there was no brand. It's just like,

(03:49):
this is where you can get Japanese food, this is
where you can get Chinese food, this is where you
can get you know.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Which is progressive for the late seventies right completely.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
It was like and then there was like hamburgers, and
then you know, yeah, whatever, fried chicken or whatever. But
I'll never forget we got whatever. We were all. We
all got to get what we wanted. Came back, sat
at the table with our trays, and I looked over
and there was a little girl with like a man
in a suit. It was clearly father and daughter, and
her plate was just a little mountain of mashed potatoes.

(04:23):
And I was like, okay, that's a divorce dy. I
looked at it. You gotta eat whatever you want.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
When your divorced dad is fucking taking you out.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Like any time I longed for her life, I was
just like, imagine the amount of TV she gets to
watch and the mashed potato she gets to eat. She
is running the fucking show in that apartment. And her
name is Kamala Harris, and today she is ah the

(04:53):
leader of the free world.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Right. That reminds, okay, so can I This is a
perfect segue. Otherwise I wouldn't bring this up this early
in the show because this is bad today. I stumbled
upon the fact that at some point twenty nineteen and
before that, Pringles put out like it's almost like a
a like a gift set, you know, like when you
get at the grocery store, of like, here are all

(05:15):
these different kinds of cookies for the holidays. They put
out one of different flavor, like like Thanksgiving flavor Pringles.
Just yes, just like the candy corns we ate.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Oh shit, and it's you ordered it? Have you overnighted it?

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Well, first let me tell you the flavors, and then
why I haven't overnighted it. It's gravy, gravy, gravy, gravy
and grapy. Oh I would have fucking double overnighted it.
Then what's that tonight? That's tonight turkey mashed potatoes stuffing
of course. Then there's a mac and cheese one, oh,
creamed corn fucking Pringle, green bean casserole, a cranberry sauce one,

(05:59):
and a pumpkin pie Pringle.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Okay, are these so sorry? You said they started in
twenty eighteen. Well I was only able to find them
up to twenty nineteen.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
The reason I didn't overnight them is because guess how
much I don't think they're making them now. Guess how
much they're going for on fucking eBay. Oh today dollars
a thousand dollars down from fifteen hundred, because everyone's been
like shocking, you.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Pop that topah, and then you're like, yeah, give you
that green bean casserole pressed potato flake chip.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
You know that company tried to get away with not
calling them a potato chip so they wouldn't have to
like have the same nutritional bullshit like they tried to
make it seem healthier. It was not a potato chip,
and the FDA or like it's a fucking potato chip.
Pringles like calm down.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
But also when we were on the road, Pringles were
my downfault. Remember I used to say it to you
where I'm like, I'm not going to open the little
Pringles can that's going to be in the hotel. Ill
try to, yes, right, And I would always be like
diet coke and little Pringles can. But it's like these
are not the idea that they would even pretend to
be healthy. They're barely potatoes, They're not nothing that's happening

(07:13):
in your mouth in that no Pringle retainer that I
stick in my mouth and let melt away. It's not
it's not made of food.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
It is no different then, And I am not talking
shit because I will make these no, no fucking shame
at all. They like instant mashed potato flakes. It's the
same thing. It's just squashed into a thing, into a
personally sized shape.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Of the roof of your mouth.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
You can just do over and over again. They get
easier to eat as you go.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yep, they because the flavor doesn't build like you know,
on your like tenth dorito. You're like my tongue burns
and this is bad for me and I know it,
and I'm doing it anyway. Yeah, not so with Pringles.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Question important question that I've had to ask myself from
our snach drawer recently. Nacho cheese or cool ranch to rito, Well, if.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Here comes the eating disorder, If it were still nineteen eighty,
then I would be like, oh, I don't even know
what I don't think they make. Yeah, Or I would
say earlier days when before one food tasted different, because
now it just isn't the same, but the original uh
noncho cheese Doritos had my heart and soul. From the
first moment I tried them, I was like, what is happening?

(08:27):
These are amazing. Yeah, when Cool Ranch Tritos came out
and I was like, a spin off exciting, but they
never really did it for me. Yeah, the way the
original ones did. These days, I don't know if they're
putting extra like paprika on there or something. They're just
too it's too much, Like the whole event is too
much Cool Ranch Ones. No, the Oh Classix that I

(08:50):
used to love so much with a turkey sandwich like.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
In Ooh School smashed in there. Anyways, this is our
this is our Thanksgiving and Christmas food theme. Podcast asked,
we'll try not to Jones is gravy soda? Can we
try that?

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yes? Please?

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Okay, I'm gonna buy that.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
I'm gonna you know, Jones. I feel like Jones Soda
should get more credit because I think they started the
weird flavor thing that Oreo is now very well known for. Oh,
a lot of places are doing like can you believe
we're doing this? And everyone's like, well yeah at this point,
Jones Soda did it very early on.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, they did that.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Maybe the thing.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Maybe I'll go to the Galcos soda shop in fucking
Eagle Rock or Highland Park that's got like all the
old school soda and candy. I'll pick up some weird flavors.
Maybe next week or before Christmas or whatever, we'll do
some weird taste testing.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I'm loving this life that I'm living, and you're a
huge part of that.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Georgia honored, honored, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Also the idea that just made me have kind of
this weird memory of someone's mom when I was growing
up used to go and it was pre bevmo. Did
they have soda deliver to their house? There was some
special she would go to a specialty soda shop and

(10:10):
get rich rich. I just like or just kind of
like living on the edge because my parents it was
the seventies where it was like everyone was like wheat
bread and the peanut butter with two witches of oil
on the top that bummed you out so bad nightmare.
But there's some people's parents who were like, you know what,
fuck all that shit. We're going full on, like who

(10:30):
wants a squirt with dinner? Obscure fascinating sodas. We're like,
what kind do you want?

Speaker 1 (10:37):
And I mom bought Azima once. I don't think that
counts speaking of alcoholism, I don't think.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Accidentally, just to relax.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Everybody, Yeah, that's alcohol for all those kids who don't know,
that's a malt beverage. It was an original, delicious carbonated
malt beverage. It How old were you? I think it
was like twelve. Anyways, meth came not much later, and
you fucking blame me.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
You were like, this is the perfect this was the gateway.
Zema is a gateway drug to everything.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Okay, So she went to the store and she got
wait what you're telling me the story that I interrupted.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
About no no, no, no, oh, a great mom that
basically went to a specialty It was before Bevmo there
was still there was some specialty soda shop and she
just got some. It was like SODA's i'd never seen
even at like even our Agis's corner store had like
blue knee high you know what I mean, where you go,

(11:37):
I'm gonna go get a blue knee high and you
can't stop me or whatever.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
That's adorable, but.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Then you can't sell me. Remember jolt when we were children, Yes,
a week at jolt colas.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
What was double It was like double caffeine coca cola.
That tasted great.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
It tasted great, and I think there was also extra
sugar in it.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
More than extras best in it. There was extra.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Fucking a sprinkle of med all of it.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
And that's how we learned.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
That's how we did it. Do you have anything, No,
I uh, I don't. I have really nothing to report.
I think it's like a slow crawl to the end
of this year. Yeah, slow crawl toward. Although I have
to say I'm very excited because my family came to
visit and everyone's down and we're there. Of course we're
watching a lot of football, which I would on the

(12:31):
surface think I would be irritated by, but this second
it's on. Oh, like I wouldn't watch it by myself,
but when my dad is there and then everyone's kind
of around, that's how we're just so used to that.
That's like the background. It's comforting. Yeah, it really is.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
I love I don't. I mean, I'll watch it for
a minute while it's on. I don't give a shit
about it, but like it's so comforting to have it
means everyone's chilling, right, Yes, exactly. It's like it's a
casual kind of party vibe. There's lots of whistles, which
you know, I love whistles here and there. Karen is

(13:08):
a whistle influencer. Everyone knows that about her.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Everyone knows how I'm passionate the history of whistles. But
that also my dad will turn and say to, like,
talk to my sister about different players, as if we're
all up on it, and we have no idea what
he's talking about, and I always play along and then
he goes, eh, you'd but you're bull shitting me, and
he like, but he does it every time. I'm like, right,

(13:32):
I've never watched one of these games, like I have
no you might as well just be making up, yeah,
and yet you still keep doing. I have to I
have to pick that up because.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
When Vince puts wrestling on and he's like so into it,
and I like want to be there for him, but
I'm not that interested in wrestling, and he'll start laughing
and he thinks I'm watching with him, but I'm not,
and he be like that guy blah blah blah blah.
I'm like, what I have to be like, I have
to start pretending like I've been watching.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah you play along, Yeah a loving as a loving,
supportive partner.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Okay, and that's I do it too.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
But I also sometimes it'll be like, sometimes I'll just
go that, how is that team New York? I thought
New York was white and green? And it goes, that's
the Giants are the Jets. There's one there, white and
green are one of them. And it's not the ones
we were watching. I think the Jets. And I was like, oh,

(14:21):
which one's better, like trying to they're both, they're ships,
and he's like waving me off like it wasn't talking time.
That's the thing is, I don't know culturally how to
how to blend, so you have to kind of wait
for him to give you the cue of like you're
allowed to ask a question, participate right now, or.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
I'm willing right now to share with you. Otherwise, I
was just looking for camaraderie. I have two daughters and
a granddaughter, and you can give it to me, So
shut the fuck up.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
He gets none of it. He has to do it
all by himself. I play long and pretend, but I'm
doing it sarcastically and he knows it. And it hurts
his feelings. It's just gonna funny. Is It's like, I
think it's a holiday thing, and then it really started
feeling holiday ish, and then I think that is a
good way to blend and just be like, what colors
are the which I like this team because of the colors.

(15:13):
That's yeah, they love is a fan.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Well, the other day, Vincent a, We're going to brunch
and he goes, oh, it's a good thing that the
Rams aren't playing today, or to be busy, and I go, oh,
where are they from San Francisco because they're from LA.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
I don't fucking care. I'm from here. I don't give
a shit. It's unimaginable to many men that you just
have not paid attention to any sport pretty much. Ever.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
I don't care.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
It's it's yeah, but it's you know, but then it's
fun to dip into and shar yeah, it's a holiday season.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Oh that was a false start.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
I love that. Wouldn't I do that?

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Oh my god?

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Cause you know why whistles and flags Karen's favorite thing.
Whistles flags, maybe a hand gester. It's like, this is
I'm just a card your youth?

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Is that soccer a card.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
I don't yellow card.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Okay, great, but they do like.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
There might gets turned on the Oh yeah, I see
referee or umpires. So you're grabbing your wrists like hold
number twenty. Next I'll be like, dad, which team is
that guy on? God damn it, just get.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Out of here. If you're going to be like that, Well,
I'm coming over for dinner with Vincent Cookie on Wednesday.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
So I think we said Wednesday it's gonna be. I
can't fucking wait.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
I'm getting I'm getting your dad a glitter iPhone case,
his new iPhone, this new Christmas or birthday iPhone that
you're getting him. Spoiler alert, don't anybody tell him spoilers
because your dad listens to this podcast and is on
social media, right.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
And this comes out days out, that's right. Still, Oh,
this comes out of Thanksgiving? Happy Giving? You you know
the old Thanksgiving? Carol. What's your favorite part about Thanksgiving? Georgia?

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Well, the uh you mean food wise, That's all I
can think of.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
But yeah, I don't know the main thing.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
It's like cozy and happy and everyone's like stoked. I
guess my answer is jenga. Okay, family, you got your anger.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
It was a winding road to get to Jenga. But
you got there. I got there. What's yours?

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Wait?

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Your whole family plays every year.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
It's just like there for whoever wants to play it,
which I really enjoy.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
It's fun. That's really good too, because it's like kids
of every age right one to one hundred.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
You know me.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
My favorite thing about Thanksgiving is.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Whistled those Thanksgiving whistle carols. You guys go around the
block every.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
Year, no no, no, no, so loud, just piercing, piercing,
and then there's a dot couple of dog whistles thrown
in just to fuck with everyone in the neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
You know what. I actually I will say what I
miss about old school family Thanksgivings and what I love
about this what's already happening is the way my family
does it. And my sister is so like planny planny
nice that she's kind of like she's got different areas
of the kitchen where this is. The boxes of stuffing
are over here, yeah, and they're with the things, they're

(18:21):
with the onions that are going to go in there.
So she's like putting things in areas and everything is
slowly being prepped and because we're there's gonna be a
pie and there's going to be you know, the whole thing,
and the morning of it all starts at like eight am,
like it just kicks off and goes all day long.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
I think that's what I love. I did, what time
do you guys eat? Because everyone's coming over to our
place like two, which is insane for dinner, like your
dinner time thing.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
I think people, I mean fiveish, I think probably is
five or so. That's like you guys should come, Oh
unless unless something bad happens on Wednesday, you guys can
just wind after your thing on Thursday.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
No, but we cut you, We cut the kill garabs
off from our holidays.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
We get one chance, and one chance only to make
this right.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Fucking right. If Frank and Cookie don't get along, this
podcast is over. Goodbye Frank and Cookie.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
I told Georgia earlier that because we were talking about
her bringing Cookie over to play with Frank, and then
I said, everyone in Pedulama's grandparents are named Frank and Cookie.
That is just like the most the most hilarious familiar
name combination, so.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
True, Like I didn't even think about a great combo.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
What a great.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Couple they are, how fun they are and invite for Christmas.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Have a highball? Huh Yeah, it's Frank and Cookie's Oh
he's home for he's home from work.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
I'd make him a highball and we have we have cocktails.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Cookie can play the piano for sure.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah. The round pencil around her neck? Like what Cookie
put the garland back?

Speaker 2 (19:56):
All right? Should we get this thing going?

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (20:00):
We should do exactly right, corner, let's do it. We
should do work.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Come on? Why Oh it's coming up on our third
anniversary of this network. Holy shit, that's kind of mind blowing.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
You just saw that in the email and I'm like,
what really, Wow, Wow, amazing, congratulations everybody, Baby, we birthed
without fucking pain meds any real?

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Uh? Actually, if it's if it's exactly rights third anniversary,
then we need to call out, thank bless and hold
dear the great Danielle Kramer, who has been running this
show since you know, six months into day one and
kicking ass and taking names for us and with us,

(20:46):
And we could have never gotten here without Daniell Kramer
never ever.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
She is a saint and an incredible person.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
She's the greatest she's the coolest.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Thank you Danielle. Yeah, thank you Danielle. Happy three years
She's I quit, I can't stand hate you by.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Daniel's the one that's like, I just want quarantine and
the pandemic and all the scariness to be over so
we could go out to dinner again, because we had
a real good dinner going out to dinner thing we did.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
And she's vegan and still enjoy dinner like that says
something like that.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
That's a person who can party. That's right. Yeah, and
then oh, waiting for impact.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Of course, Dave Holmes incredible podcast this week is taking
a little detour into the nineties alternative rock with guest
Peter Stewart, who's the musician from the band Dog's eye view.
So get fucking hop into the nineties. Put honestly dot
slap bracelet and jump on in there and get into it.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
That's actually a really that's a really good interview. It's
such a fascinating I love that podcast so much. And then,
of course if you go to exactly rightemedia dot com
and or my favorite Murder dot com, you can go
check out everybody's merch. Every show on our network has merch.
And they have great merch like I saw what you did.
We were selling Danielle Henderson's book. She has signed copies

(22:11):
of her book that she just read, which is a
great book. And there's also they have some kind of
amazing arts and crafts while hanging kit that is in
the colors of the podcast, you know, logo really great.
There's like of course Banana's house, their Bananas has their
their candle, their holy candle, where Scotti is the baby

(22:32):
and Hurt is the Virgin Mary.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
I think what they're doing is holding babies, naked baby Scottie.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
It's very I didn't wonder, it's very devotion, your dirtiest prayers. Yeah,
everyone's got stuff that you that make great gifts that
you can go on there. And then of course we've
got all of our T shirts and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
We have ornaments, my favorite murder ornaments, and so many
good gifts.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
And ugly Christmas sweaters. We have all kinds of stuff.
There's a Stay Saved and do God's Nstion sweatshirt, which
is truly one of my favorite a things that ever.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Happened on our podcast. And then b it's a great
looking and if you order by December eighth. You'll get
it by the twenty fifth with not I don't know
how it mail works.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
No, that's right. Be aware of the supply chain. That's it, right,
that's all our biz. That's it. Okay, Okay, here we go.
Jojia goes first.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yes, I'm going first, and I'm going to tell you
Karen about this. This news story I've been fascinated with
since I first stumbled upon it a couple of years ago,
and I've kind of been following it. It sounds like
something out of a sci fi book, but it actually
goes all the way to the fucking top.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
As it always does, as it does and should. This
is the Havana syndrome conspiracy. Oh shit, yeah you know
about this?

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah. For today story, I use sources from a BBC
article written by Gordon Carrera, and I use that heavily.
An article written by Andrea Mitchell Kendillion and Brenda Bresler,
and a US News article by Paul Schinkman and New
York Times opinion article by Spencer Boeck Lindall, an ABC

(24:24):
article written by Connor Finnegan and Matt Saylor, and the
Council on Foreign Relations.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
So let's get into some conspiracy shit.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Okay. So the Havana syndrome is shrouded in mystery and
conspiracy theories, and the US government hasn't totally been forthcoming
about the details, which of course just makes it more
interesting to us fucking tinfoil hatters. But recently they vowed
to be more transparent. So with that said, here's what
we do now. In twenty fifteen, President Obama meets with

(24:58):
Raoul Castro an effort to restore US relations with Cuba,
which works great, and soon the US opens up an
embassy in Cuba, and so the people who are going
to work at the embassy in the US government are
sent to live in work in Cuba. So they're there
to work with the Cuban government to collect intelligence to
fight back against Russian and Chinese spies.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Great.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
In twenty sixteen, the CIA officers in Cuba start suffering
from mysterious ailments. Some victims report hearing buzzing, grinding metal,
or piercing squeals. They cover like super loud, so loud
that they cover their ears, but that doesn't make a difference.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
It's like it's in their head.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Others report not hearing a sound but feeling heat or
pressure in their skulls. Many victims suffer from dizziness, fatigue, headaches, disorientation,
cognitive difficulties and more. And these symptoms last for months
even after the occurrence. So three CIA officers station in
Cuba come forward to tell NBC News what it's like

(26:02):
to have what's now referred to as Havana syndrome, so
the puppet will take it seriously. Tina Onefer says, she
was standing at her kitchen windows and she's one of
the US workers. She's at her kitchen window, she's washing dishes,
went out of nowhere. She felt like she was being
struck with something. It was as if she had been

(26:22):
seized by some invisible hand and couldn't move. She felt
pain that she'd never felt before in her life, and
the pain was mostly in her head, in her eyes,
and so she's gripping her head. She can't fucking even move.
She's able to get away from the kitchen window and
the acute symptoms stop, but she still had a splitting
headache for the rest of the night, and for the

(26:43):
next couple of weeks she experiences vertigo. Her memory is affected,
but meanwhile also her two kids who were upstairs at
the time didn't experience anything, so it was like it
was targeted through her window.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Alleged. Allegedly, this is all you're going to be dealing
with it normally. I'm you know, me a bigfoot and
all the crypt as well, just stuff I had. I've
read a lot of I've read some about this. Yeah what,
I'm not a believer, you're not.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Okay, let's get okay, this is well, yeah, go ahead,
I'll get to the people who are like bullshit, Okay, okay. So,
married couple Kate husband wow and Doug Ferguson and Doug
wife had a different experience than Tina's. They heard quote
an annoying sound at their house many nights a week

(27:36):
over the course of weeks. The sound was piercing, persistent,
very loud, and they said it was nothing you could
sit down with and be okay with, like it was
not ignorable. After examination by neurologists, Doug was allowed to
go back to work, but Kate was diagnosed with a
brain injury quote related to a directional phenomenon exposure, and

(27:58):
she had to retire on medical disability after treatment didn't help.
So there's your I don't believe it in my face immediately. Yeah,
but doctors diagnosed her with a directional what's it called
directional phenomenon exposure? Huh okay, Well let's get more into it.
So for the year twenty sixteen, the US intelligence officer,

(28:22):
specifically in Cuba, seemed to be the only people suffering
from the syndrome, so it was specific to Cuba. Then
in twenty seventeen, a dude named Mark Pollymyerpopoulis, a senior
CIA agent, wakes up in a Moscow hotel with his
ears ringing and his head spinning. He later tells the
BBC that he felt like he was going to vomit

(28:43):
and he couldn't stand up. Two years later, Mark was
still suffering from headaches so severe he had to retire.
In twenty eighteen, a CIA officer located at the consulate
in China reports similar symptoms. She suffers headaches, nausea, and
loss of balance for months, initially believing it was connected

(29:05):
to high levels of pollution. But then her mom comes
out to help her, she also falls ill. And then
here's like a little piece of evidence that, like to me,
means a lot. Her dog falls ill too, meaning like.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, but I'm just thinking black mold, natural gas escaping
through a hole in the ground that no one knows
is possible, radon gas kind. I don't know those actual
symptoms of everything, but having a migraine. Like I've told
you that story of when I was in college and
that day my room and I both got a really

(29:40):
bad migraine, couldn't move, laid in bed. We didn't work
for the government, and we weren't No one gave a
shit about anything we knew because we didn't know anything.
So it's the kind of thing we're just like, Okay,
So this is the kind of story that people freak
out about and then start going I have it too,
and it's like, okay, I'm going.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
To get to that, Okay, Okay. So from there, the
syndrome makes its way to every continent except and this
is this is a conspiracy Antarctica. What are you doing, Antarctica?

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, I just being cold.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
People suffer from Haig's dizzyness, nausea, and vertigo, loss of movement, hearing,
and concentration. People hear loud sounds similar to cicadas, which
seemed to follow them from one room to another, but
when they opened the outside door, the sound abruptly stopped,
and some of the victims said they felt as if
they were standing in an invisible beam of energy.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Oftentimes, though, if like if there's a cricket at your
house and you can hear it when you go to
look for it, if you open a door, it will
stop if it knows you're coming. That's right, just putting
it out there. I'm going a devil's out of it.
Don't take it personally.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
I'm just doing it. Hey man, I didn't invent Havanna syndrome.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
I'm not mad about it.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Okay, hey man, heven so Havannah Syndromemcob's National News. Many
people start theorizing about what's going on. Some people theorize
the symptoms, like Karen Kilgeroff said, are all in the mind.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
One of those if you don't know what. But I mean,
I don't think it's not like they're imagined. I think
that they could have lots of causes.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Oh, I see what we're saying. Okay, you don't think
that it's okay?

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Got it? No? No, I think I've having had a
very terrible migraine. I know exactly like a lot of
those symptoms sound very similar, got it to me?

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yes. One of those people is Robert Bulow, a professor
of neurology from UCLA. He told the BBC that he
thinks the syndrome is actually just a quote what they're
now calling a mass psychogenetic condition aka mass hysteria, which
they don't use the term anymore, right, so he also
calls it contagious stress. He says that most psychogenetic conditions

(31:49):
stem from a stressful situation, such as fucking working in Cuba.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Oh, everything that's happening in our world today, the world Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Below says that the symptoms of Havana syndrome are real.
So the symptoms are real, however, they are from stress.
And then the psychogenetic condition affects masses of people when
reports of the syndrome spread, So like the bigger news becomes,
the more people experience it, Yeah, people become quote hyper
aware and fearful, and they start exhibiting the same symptoms.

(32:21):
He says, it's similar to how some people may feel
sick after they're told they've eaten tainted food, even when
there was nothing wrong with what they ate. And then
I looked up a bunch of examples of mass hysteria
because I think it's fascinating. Another example is that when
telephones were first used widely at the turn of the

(32:42):
twentieth century, quote, numerous telephone operators became sick with concussion
like symptoms attributed to acoustic shock. So they were like,
something in the waves of the telephone is making me sick.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yep, right, And it was just like them having to
adapt to this new technology that didn't understand.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
We're being afraid of it. Yeah, yeah, so other And
it's in your head, it's in your ears, it's in
your head, but the symptoms are real, like you make
yourself sick almost.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
I'm not saying that it's in your head like it's fake.
I'm saying it's taking place. It's not your arm, it's
your brain hurts, yeah, dizzy. The things that are happening
are literally in your head. But the people actually, but the.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
People who think they need something wrong that's in their stomach,
like they get nauseous and sick.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Correct, we're saying the same thing. I'm not saying. I'm
saying that these people, when you believe you could have it,
that the pain you're experiencing and the symptoms are things
that are neurologically based. Yes, yes, that's what I mean.
Got it.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
So. Other examples are the laughing plague. There's a meowing
plague where a bunch of nuns started fucking meowing. Steven,
that one's for you.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Uh so sorry, but can I tell you that?

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, the laughing thing.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Last night, we were ordering pizza, and you know Luciers pizza. Yeah,
so I'm reading all the different kinds of pizza that
we can order, Yeah, one of them, and I'm reading
them up vegetarian, it's whatever their names are. And I
get down and I go the ring burner and start
reading and I get two. I get to helapanos, which

(34:22):
is like two ingredients in and I start laughing. That's
a terrible name. It's the worst name. And then I
start laughing. My niece Nora, starts fucking laughing, and we're like,
I'm like, oh my god, I can't PLI vote, and
then I can't stop laughing.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
It was like church my dad.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
We couldn't tell if he was paying attention or not
because there was a football game on, but I was like,
it was like I was about to get in trouble,
and I couldn't stop laughing. It was so hilarious. And
then the three of us meet Laura and Nora all
started laughing so hard. It was hilarious. But anyway, that's
we had our own mini hysteria of just that's how
it goes.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
That's exactly what it's like, like one starts doing it
and then everyone else, which is the most fun like
thing ever. There's a dancing plague, which sounds great, But
then of course there's the Satanic panic, which is also
mass hysteria. There's the War of the worlds from Orson
Wells and the Salem witch trials. So listen, not all
nashysteria events are fun like a laughing plague.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
I'm sorry, but you're going to have to do the
meowing nuns at some point the future.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Please and go deep, okay, and do an impression of
what they sounded like for sixty minutes.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
I will do it.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Please.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
So, some suggest Karen that the Havana syndrome may be
linked to chemicals used in pesticides and secticides.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
And nerve gas.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Cuba did launch an aggressive campaign against our foes, the mosquitoes,
my favorite Murder's biggest foe, Mosquitos in twenty sixteen, because
I remember the zecavirus. So they an aggressive campaign against
mosquitoes and sprang in and around offices and diplomatic residences.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
So that's a possibility, yeah, or a chemical reaction, a postability. Yeah,
imagine the possibilities. This is serious, okay.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Others wonder if the Cuban government is using some sort
of weapon on US personnel, which isn't that far fetched,
because it's no secret that the US and Cuba have
had a strained and strange relationship for decades. So this
all stems from nineteen fifty nine, when Fidel Castro overthrows
the US back government in Havana and turns it into
a socialist state. Castrip becomes allies with the Soviet Union,

(36:42):
and according to the BBC, Cuba is established as a
quote major Soviet listening station. You know, there's the whole
Cold War thing, which the cold Cold War thing, as
they go into it in the history, bring it to me,
oh please. So fourteen, Vladimir Putin visits Cuba and suggests

(37:04):
listening station reopen, and the next year Obama restores diplomatic
relations with Cuba. Blah blah blah, blah blah. But because
these events are so close, some wonder if Cuba is
actually collecting intelligence on the US.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
For Russia, which might give people headaches.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Well, people believe the answer is in our favorite form
of cooking microwaves. Those microwaves, Yeah, delicious microwaves, which is
a type of electromagnetic radiation. So besides causing some of
the symptoms of that syndrome, one former UK intelligence official

(37:39):
tells the BBC that microwaves can be used to illuminate
electronic devices to extract signals or identify and track them. So,
according to the BBC, this theory stems from World War Two,
when there are reports of people being able to hear
something when a nearby radar is switched on and begins
sending microwaves into the sky. So fast forward to the
Cold War or when Professor James Lynn conducts experiments to

(38:03):
figure out how microwaves affect the human brain. And he
does a thing that I fucking love when scientists do,
which is experiments on himself. Yes, like, if you're not
most honest, way it really is. So he sits in
a room, puts an antenna pointed out the back of
his head. Someone sends pulses of microwaves through the antenna.
He finds it a single pulse of a microwave sounds

(38:23):
like a zip or a clicking finger, so it does
sound like something, and there is like a sensation like
a bird chirping, he says, in your brain, and it's
producing the head rather than as a sound wave coming
from the outside, so it seems like it's coming from inside,
from the birdside the house.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
He theorized that the soft tissue of the brain is
absorbing the microwave energy and converting it into a pressure
wave moving inside the head, which makes me think of
the fact that Vince will not will not stand near
the microwave when the door is open.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Do you do that too, Yep, I have to move away.
It's because they were I remember when they were like
invented and first put into home, right, and my parents
wouldn't get one for years. Yeah, they were like, let's
just see, yeah, I think, to see how it goes.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
And then Vince told me that his family had the
one they bought in like nineteen seventy eight until his
dad died like a couple of years ago, and like,
you just keep the same microwave, but it probably does
have Yeah if I if I open the door without
pressing stop, he like yells at me.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah yeah, old school.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
So today there are around two hundred people suffering from
the Havana syndrome. Two hundred people, Karen, Yeah, okay, all right,
and the US government is trying to figure out what's
going on. One official says it's quote the most difficult
intelligence challenge they've ever faced. But there's no real evidence
that the Havana syndrome is even real. So they're on

(39:53):
your side partly because so many of the patients have
completely different symptoms. So it's not like if I feel
like every everyone had this symptom, it would be obvious.
But they don't, and so many people are misdiagnosed with
Havana syndrome. The State Department tried to get some answers
by sponsoring a US National Academics of Science studying into

(40:13):
the Havana syndrome. In December twenty twenty. They reported that
quote directed high energy pulsed microwaves were most likely responsible
for some of the cases, and they noted that Russia
has studied microwave technology more than any other fucking.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Country in the world. Oka.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
So even though they sponsored the study, the State Department
currently says they believe the report is a quote plausible hypothesis,
but they haven't found any further evidence to support it.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
I mean, you know, it's making me think of on
like the History Channel or some I watched a special
one time about and this was a while ago, about
how they were developing whether it was for military use
or for police use, which is very frightening, Like different
things were, like they were sound wave things. Have you
seen those where it's like if they point them, it's

(41:07):
for quote unquote crowd control. Yes, like if they pointed
like you shit your pants like it the sound wave
is such a low vibration. I think that was one
of them. Or they just make you freeze, like it
scrambles yourself. I'm not saying that. I don't doubt that
they're they're uh devious people out there, you know, knocking

(41:29):
weapons or technology that could really affect other human beings. Negatively,
I absolutely believe in that. But I do think in
this day and age especially, everything has this kind of
fevered fervor, like people are just jumping on bandwagons. Yeah,
all the fuck over the place, it unvaccinated people. What

(41:53):
do you talk about the twentieth video I've seen on
Twitter of people. I just watched this video of this
fucking idiot and it can confront a guy who is
getting a booster and it's like, you're absolutely doing this
for like online cloud and you look like a complete idiot. Yeah,
Like it's there's we just live in this very weird Yeah,

(42:14):
this world where people are so affected by social media
and yeah they're easily led. Yes they're sheeple.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Uh everybody but us, so except us and people who
listen to this podcast, right who are all vaccinated. The
weird thing to me is that, uh, this so this dude.
A study led by this dude, Douglas H. Smith, who's
the director for the Center for Brain Injury and Repair
at the University of Pennsylvania, who looked at a twenty

(42:44):
one cases of this. He and his team found signs
of brain damage like what you can't you can't do
on your own as a leg.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
No, that's not a migraine. That's a totally different thing.
And that's like, yeah, you're right, that's my theory goes
out the window when there's actual like tissues an MRI
that are shown have been affected.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
So they but they saw no signs of impact to
the patient's skull, a trauma they referred to as immaculate concussion,
which is a rad punk rock band.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
A little bit a little catchy, a little too catchy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
They determined that the injuries resembled concussions like those suffered
by soldiers struck by roadside bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan.
So the State Department set up a task force to
help personnel suffering from Havana syndrome, which they're now calling
unexplained health incidents. Because I don't because I think it'll
incite another war if they call it the Havana syndrome

(43:44):
and they're not calling it attacks, what do you mean
inside another war? Well, I just don't think they want
to call it a attack or the Havana syndrome because
oh oh like blaming, Yeah, Like it just puts it
the blame on someone, So regardless of what's causing it,
I'll say, Gordon Carrera said in his BBC article quote,
the mystery of Havana syndrome could be its real power.

(44:07):
The ambiguity and fear it spreads act as a multiplier,
making more and more people wonder if they are suffering,
and it's maybe developed a life of its own, and
it's maybe affecting politics on its own as well. Just
in the past year, reports of an outbreak in Hanoi,
Vietnam delayed President Sorry delayed Vice President Kamala Harris's visit

(44:29):
by a few hours, one can dream. In September, President
Biden signed into law a bill to compensate victims despite
there being no formal explanation for the Havana syndrome. Cheryl Roefer,
a former chemist at the Los Alamos National Laboratory, says, quote,
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and no evidence has been

(44:53):
offered to support the existence of this mystery weapon.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Ye.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Meanwhile, experts at the CIA call the Havana syndrome one
of the most confounding medical and espionage mysteries to involve
the American personnel ever seas since the Cold War. And
some people just think it could all be in the mind,
and that is the mystery of the Havana syndrome conspiracy.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
That's it is. It's definitely fascinating. I guess, you know,
my cynicism about this comes from is having had epilepsy
since I was twenty seven. Yeah, and I've had seizures
where I don't come out of it quickly, So I'm
kind of in the seizing state but conscious. And it's

(45:41):
a very strange sensation and experience, and the sounds are
very upsetting, and there's a whole thing that goes with
it that if I had a you know, like some
sort of like a government job or whatever, I would
have been like what the fuck was that? But I
was just a podcast or in my house or whatever

(46:02):
where it kind of was it because it's something happening
in your brain. And the brain is this mysterious organ
that we barely know anything about. Yeah, and so the
explanations it's just so irritating that it's not like this
rash and right, I do all the tests or whatever.
It's like the brain is so mysterious and or things

(46:22):
with hearing or balance or whatever where you know. Yeah,
I think we all know people that have gotten vertigo. Yes, vertigo,
and like it took a while for it to go away,
and that I mean, what do you hear when you're
I didn't know there's like a hearing aspect to it.
If for this last one, where I didn't come out
of it very quickly. I was like there seizing for

(46:44):
a while. And it almost sounded like really heavy techno
music I would have never listened to voluntarily like there
was like h it was like it was a really upsetting,
very loud and kind of grindy sound. Now coming out
of it. It could have been me literally like grinding
my teeth. It could have been like all of the

(47:07):
involuntary physical reactions when you're having a sature. It could
have been a lot of different things. It was just
like it was kind of a different new experience. It
was pretty scary. And that's the thing about when something
happens that's neurological. It's so fucking scary because you can't
look at it and other people can't look at it,
and there's very few tests like that. You know, the

(47:29):
mystery of it is very upsetting and very stressful. So
if it's a stress based thing, or if that's one
of the theories it creates stress, it's like it's you know,
it's like one of those things that the laughing plague.
It's people start laughing and then they can't stop and
no one else can stop, and then that it like
builds on itself. Same with a neurological issue, where if

(47:51):
you have a thing that's very explainable, just maybe the
people weren't there in the room to explain it. It's
just the one person.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
I don't know. That's just so Yeah, that makes me
feel a lot more like I think empathy for that
of like what a terrifying thing it is when your
brain is doing something you have no control over and
you can explain it to someone in the doctor's office,
but they can't test it. And they can't they can't

(48:20):
test your blood and be like, yeah, you have this
or that. It's just yeah, misfiring, it's misfiring, and like.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
There's there are times where they're you know, so I
actually really do I'm being cynical. And simultaneously I have
a lot of empathy for people who either have gone
through this or think that's what it is, because until
they know, they are not going to know, right, and
that's all It is a terrible feeling.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
And I know that feeling. And then to have to
retire from your career because of whatever is happening that
no one can explain is.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Probably just fucking heartbreaking. Yeah, really is. But you know
then it makes me think of and this is not
directly related, but it reminds me in the nineties, remember
Epstein Bar where it was that disease where people were
just exhausted. Yeah, and they were just like so tired
that they couldn't go to work.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
They couldn't.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
It's like that doesn't get talked about anymore the way
it did. It was such a news story back. Yeah,
of like this thing that people were just kind of
like falling ill with, Yeah, and inexplicably, and I yeah,
I just wonder.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
I wonder.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
I also kind of go like they're bioengineering food, right,
like you know that thing of people always go like, oh,
when I was growing up, nobody had a gluten rategy.
It's like, right, because we were eating food from the ground. Yeah,
like that was before they you know, like it's not
the same or like.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Because shit wasn't reported, or because yeah, because we were
eating a more balanced diet. It's not like it just
wasn't fucking there.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah, it's like the chemicals and the right, I don't know,
it's it's so scary. It's chemicals, chemical weapons, politics, the
way things like you just can't know things. It's scary.
It's scary in every direction. Modern life is very scary, truly.
That's why we love true crime. That's right, it's explainable exactly.

(50:14):
That was really fascinating. I also just am like, I
don't want us to be spreading no or hysteria. No,
of course not. I mean that's why I'm like, yeah,
but nobody in the government listens to this podcast. I
think we're fine. True, true, that's true.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
I hope, Okay, or at least aren't getting their facts here.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
No, no one gets our facts here. We're the show
for people who know the facts and are here to
tell us the fact. That's right. We are after the fact,
the facts of life. Okay, So this story I'm about
to tell you this week, my friend carry O'Donnell you
know well, he is the co host of the podcast

(50:59):
Sex Uni Podcast with Flora Marie Shane Halls, and he
has told me about it for a long time because
his family members knew the victim, and so he was like,
have you ever heard of this? My whole family knows
about it, and like, and I thought when he told

(51:19):
it to me, I thought I knew which story he
was talking about. But then he was like, he suggested
it to me again. I go, Carrie, I did it,
and he goes, no, you did it. He goes, you
did this similar one and he's like this, this is
why you want to do this one, and he explained
it to it. So yes, So thank you Carrie for

(51:39):
the suggestion. And this is the murder of Martha Brailsford. Okay.
The sources for this story are an episode of Your
Worst Nightmare from the Discovery ID channel, an article from
Salem News by Julie man Gannis, an Unsolved Mysteries wiki

(52:00):
about Martha Brailsford, an AP News article with no byeline,
a UPI article with no byline, a Tony Rodgers article
for AP News, an article by Laurel J. Sweet for
the Boston Herald, an article for patheos dot Com by
Matt Orn, an article for The Telegraph, the local newspaper

(52:26):
by An Stewart, Lori Cabot's Wikipedia page, and an article
for Boston dot Com by Justin A. Rice, an article
by Wan Gonzales for the New York Daily News, and
a Vice article by Hayley ed Housman. This takes place
around in and around Salem, Massachusetts, so it's the middle

(52:49):
of the night on July twelfth, nineteen ninety one, and
Boston Ferry Captain Brian Brailsford is laying awake in his
bed waiting for his wife, Martha to come home. So
Brian's job takes him away until late at night or
early in the morning hours. But it is very rare
that Martha would be out so late, especially without calling

(53:10):
Brian and letting him know. So after a while he's like,
maybe she got into an accident, so he calls the
local hospital to ask if she's there. The staff there
says no, one by the name of Martha Brailsford has
been admitted, and then shortly after midnight, Brian calls Martha's
twin sister, Muriel. She works as a librarian in Cambridge,

(53:31):
and of course the sisters, you know, are very close,
they talk all the time. So Brian asks Muriel when
she last talked to Martha, and it was that morning,
and Martha had told Muriel she was going for a
walk around Winter Island, which is something that she did habitually.
She had a dog named Rudy. She walked her dog

(53:51):
all the time and that was one of her the
places she liked to walk. So Muriel is, of course,
immediately scared that her sister isn't home might be missing.
Brian assures her everything's going to be all right. So
now it's about one in the morning, Brian goes to
retrace Martha's usual walking route on Winter Island and look
for any sign of her. He doesn't find anything. He

(54:14):
extends the search to nearby beaches and parks. He basically
looks for his wife all night long until eight in
the morning on July thirteenth. At that point, he finally
decides to contact the police. So at first, the police
aren't convinced foul play has taken place. According to them,
there's a number of reasons why Martha may have left,

(54:35):
including that she could have a secret lover that her
husband doesn't know about. But when another two days go
by and there's still no sign of Martha, the police
finally officially declare her missing. So it's standard procedure. They
interrogate Brian first, as the husband. They question him to
figure out if he's a suspect. He swears he has

(54:55):
nothing to do with Martha's disappearance. He has an alibi
for each day since she's been gone. He's been sleeping
at home working searching for Martha, and upon further investigation,
all of these alibis check out. But after Brian's questioned,
a friend of Martha's goes and basically speaks privately with
the investigators to give them information that she doesn't want

(55:19):
Brian to know about. She tells police that Martha had
told her that she planned to go sailing with a
friend named Tom on the day of her disappearance. The
friend was afraid to say anything in front of Brian
for fear that he would be jealous or assume the worst.
When the friend was like, I don't think it was anything,
but I just need you to know that this is

(55:40):
like a piece of information he doesn't know. Okay, so
we'll talk about Martha for a second. Martha Brailsford was
born May eighth, nineteen fifty four in Hackensack, New Jersey.
She's an artist and an interior designer, and in the
early eighties she starts dating Brian Brailsford. He's a fairy
captain in Boston.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
I think that's the most delightful and darling thing, hottest
of all time.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Hottest, he smells so good, all like the sea, all
the time.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
The sea and I, you know, like kind of like
Harry chest maybe a piet ah, maybe a hat, just
like awesome. So they get married in nineteen eighty two,
and then in the late eighties they moved to Salem, Massachusetts.
Because Martha loves the ocean, she wants to live closer
to it, and she's also a descendant of the town's founder,
Roger Connant. So Salem seems like the perfect place for

(56:30):
them to settle down, right, and she fits right in.
She does her work as an interior designer there. She
makes lots of friends, and of course she enjoys her
regular walks, sometimes with Rudy, sometimes by herself, all around
Winter Island, which is actually not an island. It's attached
by a strip of land, but it's very close to
being in a separate island.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
So after police get the tip about Martha allegedly sailing
with some man named Tom, the police track this friend
down and they identify the man as forty six year
old Tom Maimony. So Tom's an engineer for the Parker
Brothers game company, and he's also an avid sailor. Police
find Tom at the docks at Salem, Willow's Pier. He's

(57:14):
working on his sailboat, The Counterpoint, and they ask him
about Martha. He admits to knowing her, and he says
they often walk their dogs together on Winter Island. He
says he really appreciates Martha's friendship because things have been
rough for him since his wife passed away from cancer
the year before, and then he moved to Salem after
his wife's death. When police ask Tom if he's taken

(57:35):
Martha's sailing recently, he says he has not. The last
time Tom remember seeing Martha was the Tuesday before when
they went from one of their usual walks. But things
are not adding up because why would Martha's friend mention
a sailing trip with Tom to the police if Tom
claims the trip never took place. But there's no hard

(57:56):
evidence against him or anyone else, so they questioning basically
ends there. In the meantime, with Martha still missing, her
friends and family form a search party looking all over
the area for her. Because Martha's very popular, She's described
by her neighbors as being lovely and friendly. Everyone's worried.

(58:17):
Everybody wants to help look for her. Everyone from local
residents to the state police to the Coast Guard. They
take to land air Sea in search of Martha, but.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
No one can find her.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Carrie's mom and nana were on that search. No way, Yeah,
I'm sure it is a friend of their small town.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Someone goes, yeah, they knew her and.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
I loved her and she was a friend.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
So police go back and question Tom two days later,
and this time they visit him at his home. When
they knock at the door, a woman answers, who identifies
herself as Patricia Maimoni, Tom's wife. Oh, oh, the one
who's supposed to be dead from campus. So Tom quickly
appears behind Patricia. He tells officers he'll speak to them privately.

(59:06):
He ushers his wife away and assures her everything is
going to be all right. So then Tom tells police
he fibbed to Martha about his wife dying because he
was interested in her.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
But why would you lie the fucking police about it.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
You dumb ass? Right? And also, if you're interested in
a woman, why would you tell a lie that disgusting? Truly,
when your wife is fucking alive and lives on the island, Like,
what are you expecting? It's just it's so it's beyond
the pale in terms of what you're trying to set
yourself up at with that person. Right it's like, not

(59:41):
even like we're separated, she's fucking dead. Like she's dead,
and you're supposed to pity me, and you're supposed to
you're supposed to feel beholden to what I need from you,
because I'm in a terrible place right now. Tom admits
to having gone sailing with Martha on July twelfth, but
he claims that he was trying to keep it under

(01:00:01):
wraps so that his wife wouldn't find out. He then
says that after their day of sailing together, Tom dropped
Martha off on Winter Island so she could go for
a walk by herself. So again, police are not buying this,
because if Tom had dropped Martha off on Winter Island,
she could have just walked home. It was close to
where she was. And as suspicious as it all seems,

(01:00:24):
without any sign of Martha or any hard evidence against Tom,
they can't arrest him. So but it's so suspicious and
it is just so odd that they're like, there's this
woman has disappeared like into thin air, and this guy's
the only connection. They don't know what to do. This
guy is a liar. Yes, he is the only connection.

(01:00:47):
It's it's such a bad, insane look the things and
the things that he's kind of coping to to me,
it seems like he thinks they're not that big of
a deal or he thinks he's failing. Rick the cops, Yeah,
like admitting like, hey, look, I was interested in her.
So I told this disgusting guy like right, man, Okay,

(01:01:10):
So this is the part that I love and that
is amazing. Desperate for a lead or answers of any kind,
and being that this is the infamous town of Salem, Massachusetts,
the local authorities decide to reach out to the High
Priestess of Witches in Salem, Lorii Cabot Laurie. So this

(01:01:35):
is this shit. Let's talk about Lori Cabot. Okay. She's
born in Wewoka, Oklahoma, in nineteen thirty three, and she
has her first psychic experience as a child when she
envisions a seven year old boy falling off his bike
and onto a train trestle. So she tells the boy's
mom that she is that she thinks that's where the

(01:01:57):
kid is. The mom calls the local sheriff. The authorities
find the boy on the train and have to rescue
him off of it. Yes, so that's how it's That's
how it starts. So four years after that, Laurie moves
to Boston with her mother, where she meets a witch
at the Boston Public Library. Sounds great, because where else

(01:02:20):
would you This is a fucking children's book right here.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
This is genius.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
And she ends up studying with this witch until she's
sixteen years old. And then by the late sixties, thirty
year old Laurie, she's divorced, she has two kids, so
she decides to practice witchcraft again. It was like out
of her life for a while. She actually was a
dancer at the Latin Quarter nightclub for a while, Like
she had a really fascinating life, and then she was

(01:02:45):
kind of settled down and then got back into her
wicc in practice. So she was living in Salem, and
she actually was living across the street from the mayor.
So she kept her wick in practice as a secret
because she didn't want any trouble. She didn't want to get,
you know, she didn't want any extra at tension. Historically,
this is a bad town to be a witch in. Yeah,

(01:03:06):
she knew, she knew to cover her tracks. But then
after her black cat gets stuck in a tree for
three days, she finally reveals she's a witch. She needs
her cat back for her witchcraft, and she basically gets
some locals to help her rescue it. And basically this
story the way it comes out of the newspaper. I
don't know if like that that's the newspaper version of

(01:03:26):
the story, but basically the picture of her clutching her
black cat gets in the newspaper, it gets the it
becomes like a local news, then national news. She winds
up on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson talking about
witchcraft and practicing witchcrafts amazing. She also opens her first

(01:03:46):
witchcraft store, the witch Shop with two P's and an
E in nineteen seventy, which is like, of course, perfect year,
which becomes a hotspot for tourists and witchcraft enthusiasts and
probably practicing witches and wickens in Salem, right, so it's
very smart thematically. During this time, she begins teaching witchcraft

(01:04:09):
a religious So basically what she teaches is it's a
practice combining magic, astrology, environmentalism, but it's all in a
scientific manner, and she teaches it at her shop, as
well as at Salem State College, Wellesley College, and at Harvard.
She faces a lot of opposition from conservative Christians, but

(01:04:30):
she asserts that true witchcraft is only used for good,
as black magic comes back on a witch threefold. So
in addition to teaching classes, she writes several books on
the subject, including the Power of the Witch, The Witch
in Every Woman, Oh There Were Just Two, Harry Potter,

(01:04:56):
and the classic children's book Harry Potter No. Her work
in using magic for Good dramatically increases Salem's tourism, and
today more than two hundred and fifty thousand tourists visit
the town each October. Why haven't we been there? This
is my biggest question. We didn't take the time like
we should have. No, we should.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
We will. We'll move there, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Great. In nineteen seventy seven, the Governor of Massachusetts, Michael Ducaucus,
grants Laurie the Patriots Award, which is an honor given
to civic leaders, distinguished civil servants, community leaders, and others
who are dedicated in a significant way to improving the
lives of their fellow citizens and their community, and he
names Laurie Salem's official witch, and she later renames her

(01:05:42):
third and final brick and mortar witchcraft shop, the Official
witch Shop, in honor of that title. Love it. So
that's just a little behind the scenes about Lori Cabot.
So love that, right. So basically police go to her
and say, can you help us? We really he needs
does anyone know? And I would This is actually the

(01:06:03):
story right here is where I wish I could go
and zoom in and pull out and see what cop
knew Lori Cabot existed. What cop knew her from some
bar or something or tavern, secret warlow, like what some
believer or his mother would.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Go to her on a weekly basis and be like,
I need good spells for like to keep my son
saying if he's.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
A cop or his wife was like, we have to
find Martha. You have to do anything it takes. Go
ask Lori Cabot. You know she knows.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Invite her to Thanksgiving while you're at it? Right, Oh
my god, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Okay, So police give Lourie Martha's name, address, and date
of birth, and so she takes this information and she
has basically a ritual that she does. I don't know
the details of it, but she goes into a trance
and she will later say that she saw Martha out
on the water with a man. She sees the man

(01:07:01):
make a sexual advance at Martha, but as soon as
Martha rejects him, the man hits her in the head
with a blunt object. She sees the man tie a
weighted belt around Martha's waist and bind her and rope
with an anchor attached and throw her overboard. Oh my god.
So Laurie tells authorities they're going to find Martha's body
in the water with an anger still tied to her body,

(01:07:23):
and she believes they'll find her near a small island
and they'll be able to see a lighthouse in the
distance from where Martha's body will be found. Ooh chills.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
So this vision is so disturbing and so specific that
police go back to question Tom yet again, and wouldn't
you know it, Tom changes his story yet again. This
time he says that yes, he did go sailing with Martha,
but after a rogue wave knocked her off balance, she
had fallen overboard, okay, and when he tried to save her,

(01:07:57):
he was looking in the water and he couldn't see
her anywhere, so he couldn't save her. Police asked Tom
why he didn't report the accident when it happened, and
he tells them he panicked in the moment and he
was too scared to say anything. Uh huh. So now
the news is circulating that Martha may have been somehow
lost at sea, and then basically as people start talking

(01:08:23):
about that, a woman named Rosemary Farmer comes to the
police station with some information. She tells police that she
knows Tom Maemoni and that she'd taken two sailing trips
with him herself. The first trip, she says, was fun
and the second one was a nightmare. So Tom had
given Rosemary the same story about his wife recently dying

(01:08:45):
of cancer, so of course she felt so bad for him,
and she believed he just needed a friend. He's just
like a sad, lonely man. But when he basically gets
her on the boat, he tries to take advantage of
that sympathy and tries to have sex with her, and
she rejects him. And basically after she rejects him, she

(01:09:05):
felt so unsafe that she almost jumped overboard and swam
back to shore. Herself because he scared her so bad,
my god. But before she can do that, Tom backs off,
turns the boat around, brings her back to shore. What
a sick fuck to like take a woman in the
middle of the water. There's no escape, right, And yes,

(01:09:28):
it's the kind of thing that I think you wouldn't
think that way about a date like that because a
guy with a boat is what he has money, he's
that's it's kind of like, you're a preppy, you must
be kind of successful.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
Oh, I was thinking of a fucking like dinghy Oh no,
a sailboat. Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
It was like, okay, it's very white, bready, it's very
you know, it's very Ralph Lauren fucking Sperry topside her
shoes and it's sweater, and it's like there's a kind
of affluence aspect to it, which going along with that,
there's like an inherent trust, like a rich guy wouldn't

(01:10:05):
blank blank blank ye a rich widow. He's like heart
is broken. Yes, he's playing the wounded the wounded man.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
So Rosemary decided not to file a police report after
this because she just wanted to put the whole thing
behind her. Totally understandable. But now she's so afraid the
same thing that happened to her has happened to Martha
with a much more center. Yeah, good for her for
coming forward. Yeah so okay. Then, on Thursday July eighteenth,

(01:10:34):
about eleven in the morning, a lobsterman named Hooper Goodwin
is fishing off the coast of Marblehead, Massachusetts, which is
just east of Salem, when something gets tangled up in
his line, and when he hoists the lineup, he finds
a woman's body. Wrapped around the body is a weighted
scuba belt and an anchor tied to her by a rope,

(01:10:57):
and off in the distance visible from the spot where
the body is found as a lighthouse. The entire scene
is just as Lorie Cabot predicted, down to the last detail.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
Fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
The body is decomposed so much at this point because
it's been underwater for so long, it's basically just a skeleton,
but investigators are able to use dental records to confirm
that it is the body of Martha Brailsford. The autopsy
reveals that she most likely died by drowning, although she
did sustain at least five blows to her skull and jaw. Oh,

(01:11:33):
there's a violent attack and he put her in the
water alive, weighted down. Horrify. Oh my god. It's clear
that whatever took place was deliberate and violent, and with
Martha's body recovered, police are finally able to get an
a rest warrant for Tom Maimoni. So the police go
to Tom's house to arrest him, but he's not there.
He's already made a run for it only minutes before

(01:11:56):
the authorities had shown up. Tom's wife, put Your Trusia, however,
is at home, so the police tell her that if
she knows where he's going, she needs to tell them immediately.
She has no idea where he is. He left without
an explanation, and she's devastated. She's had no idea that
her husband has been harassing these other women. She had

(01:12:18):
no idea that he was saying that she had died
of cancer. And it turned out Tom had been lying
to his wife for years. He told her he held
several college degrees. That was a lie. He said he
had been in the army he never served. And when
police ask her about the cancer story, she reveals that
Tom had been married three times before he married her,

(01:12:39):
and that his second wife did have cancer, but that
she had survived it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
Ah, he couldn't. I mean, suspicions abound about him and
the way he treated his wife. You've got to imagine, right, Like,
I don't want to.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Horrifying, I mean, yeah, just awful and a compulsive liar
like me saying my favorite thing, clearly as sociopath. So
she tells police she'll help them find Tom in any
way she can, but she really does have no idea
where he may have headed now that he's on the run.
She didn't have any theories about where he might have gone.

(01:13:16):
So what a police do. They go right back over
to Lourie Cabot's house and ask her to help them
find Tom. Yeah. So she takes his name, his birthdate,
and his address. She goes back into a trance state,
and she has a vision of Tom shaving off his mustache.
She tells investigators that she believes he's making a run

(01:13:37):
for the Canadian border, and so to help slow him down,
Laurie casts a spell over a straw doll that she
makes of Tom.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
She wraps the doll in a white cord, and she
sees that he's going to do something stupid to get
himself caught before he's able to cross the board, and
two days later, on Saturday, July twentieth, nineteen ninety one,
the state Police in Maine get a call from a
local caretaker about a strange man that's been lurking outside

(01:14:09):
one of his cabins, and when police respond to the call,
they find Tom Mammony in a black Sedan park just
outside the cabin. He had fled north to Maine, and
just shy of the Canadian border, he decided he was
going to break into a nearby cabin to rest. So
he gets discovered at the cabin and he's arrested by

(01:14:30):
Maine State Police for breaking and entering, But when they
look him up in their system, they find that he's
wanted for murder in Massachusetts. So the main police hand
Tom over to the Massachusetts authorities and he's held in
prison on a second degree murder charge. Okay, right, So
Tom Mamoni's trial begins in nineteen ninety three. He sticks

(01:14:51):
to his rogue wave story, asserting that he's an excellent
sailor and they tried his hardest to save Martha, but
that ultimately he was no mad for the sea. This
does not explain how Martha ended up with a weighted
scuba belt around her waist and an anchor tied to her.
So it's kind of stupid that he thought he was
just going to stick to his own line totally. Prosecutors

(01:15:13):
put Rosemary Farmer on the stand and she testifies about
her experience with Tom aboard his boat, recounts how he
made sexual advances toward her and about how unsafe she
felt until he returned her to shore. So the violence
of this man, like Rosemary Farmer, basically came right up
against that exact same situation and for some reason, like

(01:15:37):
he just didn't have the explosion that he had when
Martha was on his boat. It's so frightening, Like she
just she was right there with the exact same thing
and was so scared she was going to jump overboard
away from it. That's so terrifying. And there is a
second unnamed woman who tells a similar story. So basically

(01:15:58):
there is a pattern of Tom's predatory behavior and.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
What Carrie told me.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
His nana testified in this trial. Yes, the family went
there and the nana testified. Because Martha's dog, Rudy was
found tied up like I think at the docks or wherever.
And basically the nana said she would have never left
her dog for that long. Yeah, so chances are it

(01:16:26):
was like jump on my boat, will go around the
harbor or something like. She wasn't planning on having a
sailing trip with him. She just tied her dog up.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
Don't bring the dog. Dogs aren't allowed because she probably
knew that that dog would have fucking defended her.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
Yes, you know, I bet right, good point. Yes, So
the evidence against Tom is overwhelming. The jury finds Some
guilty of second driggay murder of Martha Brailsford, and he
is sentenced to life in prison. So in two thousand
and six, after fifteen years in prison, Tom becomes eligible
for parole, and at his parole hearing, he again maintains
the story about the rogue wave dude, but the board

(01:17:04):
members don't buy it. He's denied parole. He returns to prison,
and over the course of the next few years, Tom
defends himself at two more parole hearings. His stories are
riddled with lies, and at one point Tom even tries
to pin the blame for Mirtha's death on her husband Brian,
so her husband, Brian, has been in attendance for all
of these hearings. He calls out the ridiculousness of Tom's claim,

(01:17:28):
saying Tom should definitely be in prison for the rest
of his life. The poor man, I know, that's so horrible,
But the parole board agrees, and with one board member
even calling the proceedings an exercise in futility. In his
third and final attempt at parole in twenty twelve, the
parole board chair calls Tom a pathological liar. Yea, it

(01:17:50):
is so it just it never worked. I mean, wasn't working.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
It's almost I know this sounds crazy, but it's almost
good that he keeps his stupid fucking lieap because when
you accept responsibility, that's when parole is likely. But if
you keep, if you take no responsibility, keep bullshitting like
you fucking are.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
Yeah, like no, which is the classic move a sociopath,
which is I'm smarter than everybody. I'm gonna out smart this.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
I know, and look how wronged I was or whatever. Yes,
I'm the victim.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
On Wednesday, October eighteenth, twenty seventeen, the now seventy two
year old Tom Mamoni succumbs to a chronic illness that
he'd been battling for several months, and he passes away
at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston. Author Margaret Press,
who wrote a book about the case entitled A Scream
on the Water, A True Story of Murder in Salem,

(01:18:44):
says this about Tom's death quote, although his death won't
undo any of the harmy caused, I hope that the
families who were so tragically impacted by his life can now,
in some small measure, put this sad chapter behind them.
And Carrie told me that there is a seashell water
fountain in the town of Juniper Beach that was erected

(01:19:05):
in Martha Brailsford's memory, and that is the tragic story
of the murder of Martha Brelsford and the powers of
the High Priestess of which is Laurie Cabot.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
Damn right, Yeah, Why did you think you had done
that one before? That doesn't sound like anything you've done.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
I don't know, because I'm losing it because I'm very tired.
I feel like there was maybe there was a story
of a woman who was taken onto a boat and disappeared,
that there was no obviously no witch element or anything
like that, which element stories also just the idea where

(01:19:47):
it's this woman who has powers and she's like, yes,
I will help you. Apparently she helped the police after
that was the first time they had ever gone to
her to help, and they went to her couple of
times after that, and she helped with other cases. But
the idea that it's like if you would like the
idea that witches are like evil in this and that,

(01:20:09):
and it's like, no, no, they're very powerful women with
vision and if you actually, you know, go to them
with respect, they could actually help you. It's just like dreamy.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
I feel like we've been burned our generation of because
there were so many like psychics in the eighties who
like came forward to try to help with these fucked
up cases that they could they had no fucking business
being even part of. And I did very like negatively
impacted them in a lot of ways.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
And there's a lot of bad people, a lot of
con men pretending to have rights and doing it for
the money, and the Psychic Friends network and all that stuff. That.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
Yeah, So to hear a positive one where something actually
took place that like helped everything and was correct I
mean more than anything.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
Yes, it's very like it makes me, it gives me
good feelings. What are those me too? Be me feeling
It's yeah, that might that might be the feeling of
happiness or that kind of like you know, I don't
know that that kind of because Carrie told me, and
it was after it was after Halloween, and he was like,
you could have done it for Halloween, and I was like, shoot,

(01:21:18):
why didn't I Why didn't I listen to you? It's
so weird. But I think it was just like that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
And I think it's also really sensitive when people when
it's like a friend of the Yeah, Carrie said that
he and his mom were doing something one day he
was one year old, and he they went to Martha's
house to go pick something up or go look at something,
and his mom and nana were some of the last

(01:21:45):
people to see her a lot. Oh my gosh. So
I think I was afraid to do it wrong or
to do it in a way that when it's that close,
you know, I think it's a good idea, but it's like,
you know, it's a lot or a careful about that
we try to be. But then you know, it's like
then we get distracted and we're talking about Pringles and

(01:22:06):
it's like, you know that's our well, we're that's respect.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
We're human. Also this, you know what this made me
think of.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
It's unrelated, but there's an antique store in Pedlimma, and
one time I was looking through it and.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
There they had a.

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):
This little white book and on the cover, in like
embossed gold writing, it just said white magic.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
And I didn't get it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
I think it's because I was broke at the time.
I would kill for that. I mean because it looked
old and it looked like a book of like white
magic spells. Oh did I tell you that sounds amazing?
Did I tell you that? I stole backet of tarot
cards from a Barnes.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
And Noble when I was in high school? And then
so I was like, that's bad luck. You can't deal
tarot cards. And I was like, well okay, and then
just like left them on a table somewhere for someone
else to find. Someone just just burning stage all around. Yeah,
it's fine if you find them from a fucking shitty,
delinquent teenager who stole them from a corporation. Now I'm like,

(01:23:16):
well it was a corporation. Shouldn't be something.

Speaker 2 (01:23:18):
It's all about that energy. It's everything's about energy. Bad
it was bad energy. Get that energy going into positive direction.

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
That's right. Wow, that was a I feel like that
was the best Thanksgiving episode we've ever heard. Tone.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
I don't remember any of the others, but I feel like, yeah, exactly,
I don't either, but I do feel like we just
represented the heart of America and the best way possible
and one of the things that are the things that
are good about this country, which is.

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
We made one of the worst national holidays into something
a little better.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
We hope you have a wonderful day in whatever way
you celebrate, whatever you're doing. Happy Thanksgiving, Happy thanks Thanks
for hanging out with us. Yeah, uh, deal with your
family or don't it does it's up to you. Or
go get some pringles and just be like, I've never
had this flavor before. Yeah, what day is that? It's Thursday?
Who fucking cares?

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
Also, stay sex, I don't get murdered. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Yeah, Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been
an exactly right production.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
Our producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton. Associate producer Alejandra Keck
engineer and mixer Steven Ray, more.

Speaker 1 (01:24:35):
Researchers j Elias and Hailey Gray.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
Send us your hometowns and your fucking horays at my
Favorite Murder at gmail dot.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Com, and follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at
my Favorite Murder and Twitter at my Fave Murder.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
And for more information about this podcast, our live shows,
merch or to join the fan called, go to my
Favorite Murder dot com

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
Rate review, and subscribe