466 - Parrots Of The Future

This week, Georgia covers the Adelaide Oval abductions and Karen tells the story of the Schoolhouse Blizzard of 1888.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. That's a Georgia
hartste That's Karen Kilgaraff And.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is how you make.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Have you seen I don't know how we haven't talked
about this yet. The fucking husky who has an Italian accent.
Oh my god. Nothing has brought me more joy in
my life than the best, right the best.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I feel like if there's any animal that's about to
break over into human speaking, huskies.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Will be first. They're so close, they're borderline. They're like
it's parrots, which I watched so many videos that I'm
talking to they literally are talking and huskies. If you
haven't seen it, just google Italian husky.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Huskies are the parrots of the future. That's clear to
all of us who care about TikTok.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, don't you believe an evolution? Everyone?

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Sorry breaking news? Do you know that I am off
of TikTok. But because I accidentally the day that they
said they were quote unquote banning it, I went and
deleted the app because I was like, I don't want
to stare at that anymore. I don't want to I
don't want to just look at it. You're not be
able to access it.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Did you cancel your account? You just can't sign back in.
I deleted it off my phone. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Twelve hours later, I'm meeting dinner with Bridger and he
goes home on the reinstated TikTok and I was like,
wait what, And so then I go to put it
back on my phone. Cannot you can't, can't.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Because they're like fuck you and fuck you, fuck you
if you if you like ditch them if.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
It's basically the general practice of fuck you if you're
American at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Well, yeah, I mean that's great. Come to Instagram. We're
a happy family here. It's less chaotic.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Here's the thing. It's just like I have to transfer
high school's senior year last quarter.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
So it's like, hey, guys, are we going to give
your friends?

Speaker 1 (01:56):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
No, no, no no.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
But everyone wants someone new and exciting. We're all bored
of each other over there.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Okay, so I immediately have to post bikini pics because I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, can I tell you the last thing I posted?
What a slow motion reel of Vince taking a chicken
pop pie that he made me on Friday night and
up bending it on a plate and handing it to me. Oh,
with some dirty song playing in the background, like that's
all it is. There, we're having.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Fun, kind of let's get it on field, kind of like.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Pop Up, you know, everybody popped up? You know that
one like this, which I wanted to sing so bad,
And as I was walking into the office, I was
like wanting to sing that song, and I was like,
that's actionable. Don't sing that to your coworker.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Even in the parking lot. It's questionable. Totally definitely not
pass the doorway.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Look that song up too if you need, if you
need a fucking jam to jog too.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Can you give me the musician that performs it.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Oh, it's fucking it's two live crew. Nothing's better. The
song is called pop that Pussy. That's the fucking name
of it. So I'm not no, no, you didn't write it,
you're just wrapping it. Yeah. Hey, speaking of rap, have
you watched the Martha Stewart documentary?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Not yet.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
I kind of was meant about it and then I
watched it, and then you were not, and then it
was like very interesting.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yes, that's all I've heard is very interesting, amazing, like
almost like the story behind talk about Instagram. It's kind
of like, yeah, she's all about pictures and presentation.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
The first influencer there saying, and it's so true she is.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
I remember being in high school and there used to
be an American Express commercial where it was Martha Stewart
lining a pool the bottom of a pool with American
Express cards, like it was a craft project. And I
was like, who's that. My mother was like, oh good,
she's some woman from the East Coast, like I roll,
I roll, And it was like she was. But it

(03:49):
was almost like how to be perfect, how to have
a perfect life, how to be perfect.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
The whole thing is about. And it's also like a
little disturbing because she's clearly like a little bit of
an automaton.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
What is the word robot?

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, a little robotic, sure, little like I guess sociopathy,
kind of like because you have to be in that
business or to get where she is in this world. Yes,
it's also super impressive because she's a badass and has
like taken some hits and just got back up.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
You know, she's still growing those two lips seasonally.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
It's interesting. You should watch it as a CEO yourself,
an entrepreneur.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I think there's someone heading to jail for sure.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
For insider trading. Yeah, I do think you'll identify with
some parts of it.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Multiple people have told me. Many women who work very
hard in business and who've kind of seen some shit
have told me the same thing, where it's just like
you just got to see her version of it, which
is cool.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
There's definitely part you'll identify with. Yeah, sure, yeah, what
have you got going on?

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Mostly the muffin parts? Are you told you? I have
been kicked off TikTok, so like I feel like I'm
forced into like now I'm spiritual or something because I
literally sit on them at the patio table of my
back patio in the morning and kind of like stare off, like, well,
I guess this is in a better way to spend time. Yeah,

(05:11):
my sister and I were talking about it. You can
tell it's not good for your brain to watch things
for ten to sixty to seconds to maybe three minutes
that are this yeah, over and over and just flipping, flipping,
flipping that it does something to your dopamine kind of
like your set rate of satisfaction. Absolutely, so I think

(05:32):
that's good, but I am so scared about the just
absolute loss of information shared information between Twitter being gone
and which it is completely gone and the Twitter we
all knew. And the thing that was important about Twitter
was it was started by journalists, shorthanding news and like

(05:52):
so everyone else that was there, you know, later stages
were all just kind of like hangers on, but it
was news based and source.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
We need that access to information on all platforms and
from all places so that we can then make a
decision for ourselves. Yes, and you're worried about that not
being available to everyone.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
And the fact that it is not it absolutely cuts
into people being able to organize, people being able to
have real time reactions to things like it, just as
holistically as I kind of skip around on my phone going, well,
blue Sky, I mean, let's all make the best of
blue sky, for.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Sure, but god, yeah, dark, Well, we're here waiting for
you on Instagram with open arms and a chicken pot
pie slow motion chicken pot pie.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
I mean that alone is a huge That was one
of the most perfect invitations you could offer me.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
What else is there?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
I just I guess I was always picture and of
people like here's us at the bikini party. Oh, here's
me and my bikini again, bikini from the back, Like
that's what it always felt like that to me.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
I don't get a lot of bikini content. That's not
okay what I follow, and that's not what's offered to me.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
And you don't feel pressed to POSTPEKINI.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Are you fucking kidding me?

Speaker 2 (07:06):
But it's been in my head the whole time.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
No, everything I post is like chicken pot pie adjacent.
It's not. It's not or like dog and cat stuff. Okay,
it's not like that. Okay. It's like you know, when
you're in fifth grade and you think the sixth graders
are super cool, and then like you become an adult
and meet one of those sixth graders, you're like that
person was I don't know where this is going, but
we're the fifth You want to just talk about fifth grade? Yeah,

(07:29):
I'm in entire you know what I mean? Like you're like, Wow,
that's persons so much cooler than me. And then like
with TikTok, and then you meet them later in life're like,
why did I put that person on a pedestal? Everything
was great here in fifth grade? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (07:42):
I don't it's all normal. Well, because that's all it's
basically the social media trap, which is want to be
a part of things. I think we'd be doing a
good job being part of things. Maybe stick your toe
in and test that out.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah. I did that with TikTok.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, and not for you, but you are more of
a I have to be doing it. I was such
a lurker on TikTok. I didn't do it. I barely
interacted at all.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, it made me feel inadequate, whereas with instagrammics like
I could talk to the phone in front of my
mirror and it's fine. I don't need filters, right, I
mean I need filters, but I don't use filters.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Oh, I thought you were going to do a big
take to camera just now. The way you spun around
it was like, yes, oh I was doing a bit.
Just sudden I start doing I don't need I don't
need filters and then turn around and blow your nose
into camera.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Jesus Christ, what is this?

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Who knows you know what it is? It's a true
crime podcast. We have news, we have highlights from around
the world. Is this where you should come?

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Nope, the answer is no.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Maybe, Uh should we do some ceramics? Oh my god, yes,
your face is lit up. Yes, so last week because
we asked you guys for ceramics for our ninth annivers
aniversary gift. Yeah, we showcased some on the podcast. It
was a huge hit. We have so many more. We're
going to do a video hopefully soon, but in the
meantime we wanted to just like do a couple more

(09:11):
really quickly, because apparently you guys freaking loved it. Yeah,
everyone's just thrilled.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
So ione loved it, and it's it's fun to be like, hey,
would anyone do this? And then yeah, with this listenership,
the responses we get are like hell yeah, and then some.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Right, watch this, watch this, and like we bought a
fucking electric lazy Susan. We can't, guys, can't go to waste.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
This is show business, investment, ladies and gentlemen. And also,
if you want to see what we mean by an
electric lazy Susan, you better get over to that YouTube page.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, go to the exactly right YouTube and then check
it out. Okay, I'll read it to you while you
do it.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
This is from an artist named Cassandra her ig handle.
Her Instagram handle is wester Wald Pottery w E. S T. E. R.
W Ald. She and her husband the handle ee was
gonna use forget it. She and her husband run Westeral Pottery,
which her dad started in nineteen seventy five.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Whoa second generation pottery.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
You know, her dad was a ceramics professor and pottery expert.
This is gonna be fucking good. And he passed away
in twenty twenty two after a battle with COVID. And
she says, quote, I hope you enjoyed the anniversary, crock
and the mugs. I know my dad would be getting
an absolute kick out of my favorite murder being stamped
onto one of his pots. Her name. Oh, this is real, Dad,

(10:31):
is fucking rediculous, the real deal. This stoneware is hand thrown,
decorated and glazed at twenty two hundred and fifty degrees fahrenheit. Glazes,
lead free, microwave and dishwashers safe. So it's a beautiful
like croc like a jug kind of a thing with
this gorgeous like what would you call that? It's very

(10:53):
vintage this floral design, yes, beautiful blue floral design's very
vintage looking.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
If you've ever seen pottery cell on Antiques roadshow, it's
one of these but a big one usually where they're like,
this has been in the corner my kitchen forever. O.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
My god, and then the mugs have our name stamped
into them with SSDGM.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
I'm sorry because you're supposed to put this on the
shelf behind you. I'm taking it.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
That's your shore. This is the most this is my
new mug.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
This is absolutely beautiful. Okay, let's put it up kind
of like breathtakingly beautifulness, Sondra, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Great job. Westerwald Pottery. Westerwald Pottery, so touching. It's like
a family thing. I know. That's amazing, gorgeous. Yay, Okay,
this one's small.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Okay, I'll start reading this one and you get ready
to do the poll.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Okay. It's covered up with a cloth, with a silk cloth,
and we're gonna rip it off. It's a little phallic
shaped under that.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
I guess what part of the body this has been
shaped after. It's a little phallic thrown after the artist's
name is Tina Kane aka t Pots Pottery, Instagram handle
at Teapots Pottery, and she teaches pottery classes at MCSCLA
Studios in Clearwater, Florida. Why don't you rip it? As
she says, hope you enjoy your ninth anniversary prize.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
It's a microphone.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Is it a Oh my god, it's a microphone pot
bong pipe? Look, it.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Says, hope you enjoy your ninth anniversary prize. It's one
of my favorite pieces. Typed smiley face. Yes, I make
all the standard mugs, bowls, et cetera too. It's a
pipe shaped like a microphone. That's so like clever, that
is brilliant.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
It's a microphone and it's a and you can smoke
pot out of it after you record the podcast.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Or a legal tobacco in your state, whatever or family.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
That's hilarious, amazing, Tina Kane, thank you so much. Wow.
Oh okay, do you want to read this?

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Okay, I'll read this one.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
This is from an artist named Chris Shima Instagram handle
Shima Shima Shima Ceramics. Chris says, my company consists of
myself and my assistant Jaredan, and we almost exclusively listen
to MFM in the studio and then it's then let's
do it. It says, I make sculptural mugs by hand,
meaning I sculpt an original by hand, make a plaster,

(13:22):
mold a bit, and then cast slip mugs from it.
Whoa I looked up yet as an homage to MFM,
I made these Stay out of the Forest skull mugs
Happy ninth anniversary.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
These gorgeous WHOA skulls and they're glazed on the inside.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
And they have Stay out of the Forest etched on
the back.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's like outside is skull bone feeling inside beautiful? Yes,
glaze mug Karen.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
I think all the big meetings you take from now
and you need to be casually sipping oh is and
then I do a lot of Is that so?

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Is that so drinking?

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Like, are still the people that we fucking dealt with
that you need to talk to? Out of a skull, I'll.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Hold it in the eyes. Is that so?

Speaker 1 (14:04):
That's beautiful?

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Have you seen Martha's Tewarts series?

Speaker 1 (14:08):
You could Chris Shima Shima Ceramics incredible, incredible and signed
oh wow, beautiful of coursese are beautiful. I mean, I
can't get over the talent. I can't. It's real professional.
They're professionals.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
It's they are and they're giving things to us because
we demanded.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Because we do. Please, beautiful, I can't wait to do
an actual like a livestream that we were going to
do and show the rest of them. Oh yeah, there's
still time to send yours in. You guys, if you're like, shit,
I didn't finish in time, or if.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
You got really mad because you're like, oh, sure, the
ceramics people get to do something, but what about me
over here with my hook rug?

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Abilities you want a hook rug?

Speaker 2 (14:50):
I mean I I like lots of things. I like
when people put their creativity and brains towards something.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
It's like a it's like a hometown. It's like could
be fucking anything. You at this point, like you decide,
you choose.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, okay, no rules.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Beautiful, Thank you, Alejandra, Alejandra, amazing job. All right, Well,
before we get to the stories, do we do some highlights?

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Let's talk about our vaunted network with all of our
wonderful podcasts on it, especially the newest podcast that we have,
our brand new film podcast, Your Movies I Love You.
They just debuted here on the exactly right network on
the second episode is now out and on this one
million casey take on the trope of the Manic Pixie

(15:32):
dream Girl and discuss the two thousand and four hit
film Garden Stage.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Wow. Yeah, I want to know about that because like,
when I was younger, I was like, I'm a manic
Pixie dream girl, And now that I'm older, I'm like,
take your medication.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
I mean, what choice did anyone have? And they're two thousands.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Though it's a terrible it's a terrible trope.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
It was a hilarious at the time trope because I
remember being like in my twenties at that time that
you were watching a lot of stuff yet justified that
you as a person who had at least been around
the block like one and a half times, or just
like this is full bullshit what you're talking.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
About, or like these character, these female characters that are
made to service the male's storyline, Yeah, you know, in
a darling, adorable way that has no thought of its
own whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
And like you were saying before, like oftentimes those girls
were not this wonderful force of nature, right, they were
people who needed medication and or that we're just trying
to live their life. And some dude is like, I'm
going to project everything I need onto you, and now
I'm mad at you for not being.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
That person fucking five hundred days a summer in a nutshell. Anyways,
this is not a movie podcast.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
This is not that movie podcast or any movie podcast.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
And then this week on That's Messed Up and SPU Podcast,
Kara and Lisa cover an episode from season five entitled
manic Hey Done don Over.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
On I Said No Gifts, comedian Rayka Shunker disobeys Bridger
with yet another unwanted present. Will it ever end?

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Poor guy? And Nick Tierry has done it again with
a brand new episode MFM animated. It's called Sleep German,
which is inspired by Miniso three twenty. Head over to
YouTube dot com slash exactly right Media. Please subscribe while
you're there to check it out, and remember the Dreamman
won't get you if we stick together.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
The dreamwan won't get you if we stick together. Head
turned to the side.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
So great.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Also, just a quick update so you guys know, if
you're listener short time, long time, we like to take
our MFM logo pin, which is just the classic MFM
logo pin obviously that we sell in the merch store
black and white, and we dedicate like a period of
time to certain charities. The money from the sales of
that pin will go to So the last one was

(17:45):
the National Abortion Fund. We sold one hundred and ninety
two pins with that one, so you guys raised almost
two thousand dollars to donate to the National Abortion Fund,
which is amazing.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
So this year we are dedicating the money from the
black and White MFM low Go pin to World Central Kitchen,
of course. Founded in twenty ten by chef Jose Andres,
World Central Kitchen is the first to the front lines
providing meals in response to humanitarian, climate and community crises.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Their relief team has been here in southern California supporting
the first responders and the firemen and the families affected
by the fires, providing nourishing meals.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
To donate or learn about other ways you can help
World Central Kitchen go to their website WCK dot org.
We're really excited to support them. It's like, you know,
such an incredible cause.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, and then if you were just thinking a shopping around,
you wanted to get a little pin for your lapel,
then the money that you spend goes to a really
good and at this point, very very worthy cause.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Right when you're buying your here's the thing. Fuck everyone,
mug throwing a black and white pin. Get a pin, coma, Hey,
put it on your leather jacket. Okay, this is what
I'm excited to do. It's a big one and it's
really interesting. You know how we go on tour, We
go to a city and on stage before we tell

(19:04):
a story, we would like be like Clearwater, Florida. What
are you doing, like, admonish them because they have so
many fucking murders to choose from. Oh yeah, okay, well
if we ever go to this place, we're going to
admonish them. Because this takes place in Adelaide to Australia.
Oh oh an Adelaide, Texas, I think so okay, yeah,

(19:28):
because Australia can go head to head with the US
when it comes to terrifying murdered and disappeared children. Unfortunately,
there's the mister cruel abductions and murder that I covered
in episode one twenty four, of course the Beaumont children,
which I'll mention later. And then there's this one. This
is a haunting, fifty year old unsolved case about two
children in Australia who are abducted from a sports stadium.

(19:52):
This is the story of the Adelaide Oval abductions, which
I hadn't heard of, but I think everyone in Australia
knows about.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
I haven't heard of it either, ye I ask is
this a cold case?

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, but there's a lot of suspects okay, okay, and
like a lot of other cold cases that like link
them okay okay. I originally found this on the Crime Stoppers'
South Australia website. The main source I use for the
story is episode one sixty three of the Australian true
crime podcasts that we all know and love, Case File.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Case Fuck. First of all, did the Case File host
ever come forward and be like it's me?

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Nope, still anonymous as far as I know.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
That's so Australian and cool.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
So cool, like I don't want all the accolades. And meanwhile,
we're like put us in the magazine. I've never said
those words. I've never said them either, but there we are.
Times Square has seen us a few times and it's like,
not on us, you know that's true.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Well, it's a different thing because Case File is essentially
as close to basically newspaper reporting as you can possibly get.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
It's very serious, definitely and the rest of the sources
can be found in the show notes. So Adelaide is
South Australia's capital. It's known by some to be a
beautiful coastal cosmopolitan town with a small town feel. And
it's also known by other people, including a lot of
murderinos who emailed us about this case, as the murder
Capital of Australia or the serial killer Capital of Australia,

(21:17):
like lots of dark shit has happened here. Yeah, so
here we are. It's August twenty fifth, nineteen seventy three,
and we're at a sports stadium called the Adelaide Oval
for an Australian football match between the North Adelaide Roosters
and the Norwood You want to guess what they're called?

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Ackleberries?

Speaker 1 (21:38):
No, that's not right, but the Norwood red legs would
also have been hilarious. But true, Oh the red legs. Yeah.
So we're not going to get into it. But Australian
football is also known as footy. It looks similar to
rugby slash American football. There's just who cares? It's not
the same.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
I care about rugby?

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Okay, fine, then the rules are different. It's played on
an oval shape field similar to a cricket field, which
means nothing to me. It's a smaller stadium, looks like
a college football stadium, so like, you know, not massive,
go it down, Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it's the nineteen seventies,
so most of the spaces standing room only, so spectators
arrive early and they don't give up their spots like

(22:19):
you would at a parade, like even if you go
to the bathroom, you're gonna lose your spot. So they
get there early and they stick where they're at. There's
also grand stands on the west side of the stadium
where people can sit, and that's where Les and Kathleen
Ratcliffe are sitting with their two children, David who's thirteen
and Joanne, who is eleven, on that August day in
nineteen seventy three. Here we are. Yeah. The family are

(22:41):
huge Red Legs fans and they come to nearly every game.
There are a lot of regulars in the crowd, and
the Ratcliffs soon connect with a woman named Rita Huckle,
one of their friends who they see often at the games,
and that day, Rita has brought her granddaughter along to
this game. She's a four year old name Kirsty Gordon,
and it's the first time she's ever brought her granddaughter

(23:04):
to a game. So the game begins at two ten,
and even though there's an age gap between Joanne, who's eleven,
and Kirsty, who's four, they immediately take a liking to
each other. Remember when you were like a preteen and
a little kid thought you were the coolest and it
just made me feel so good and like, you know,
like babysitting.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, then you got to be like the camp counselor
and you're like, come over here, we'll have fun.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah. I mean, to this day, if a little kid
likes me, I feel like special. Yeah, you know. Yeah,
So I think it was kind of that sort of thing.
So they spend like most of the game playing together.
Australian football games are played in four quarters and between
the two halves there's a longer break, and so Joanne
her parents totally trust her. She's a very mature eleven
year old and she's been to tons of games at the

(23:50):
stadium before, so they let her go back and forth
to the bathroom on her own, but only during the
beginning of the quarters, not during the halftime when there's
the big rush like they have a a sense of
you know, they're eleven year old in a crowd and
they're careful. Yes, So during the first quarter, Kirsty needs
to go to the bathroom and the Ratcliff's and Kirsty's

(24:12):
grandma Rita agree to let Joanne take her. The bathroom's
about three hundred feet away from their seats, in a
concourse area under the grandstand. They go to the bathroom,
they come back, it all goes well, no big deal,
and they continue to play while their families watch the game.
So then about three forty five in the third quarter
of the game, Kirsty needs to go to the bathroom again,

(24:35):
and there's still plenty of time before the break to
go between quarters, so the families you know, let the
two girls go this time, though after twenty minutes they're
still not back yet. Joanne's father Less goes down to
the concourse to look for the girls, thinking they're probably
playing somewhere between the seats in the bathroom, but he
doesn't see them. He asks a woman to go in

(24:56):
the ladies room to call for the girls. They're not
in there. And about twelve thousand people have come to
the game that day, but also the stadium always opens
the gates during the last quarter, so people from the
general public who don't have tickets can enter for free
and just watch the end of the game. And because
it's a close match, a lot of people show up
that day, and the beginning of the fourth quarter sees

(25:18):
a huge, like chaotic influx of people in and around
the stadium. Like we went to that football game, soccer
game in England. It's chaotic.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
It was insane.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, like being a little kid, they're just yeah, so
even though the girls haven't been missing for very long,
they're both very responsible and trustworthy. So the adults are
already alarmed and springing into action. And this is actually
kind of rare for the nineteen seventies, right, like completely
they'd be like in trouble and angry at them, or

(25:48):
just not even know that they were gone for that
long twenty minutes and they're worried.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah that's great. Yeah for seventies numbers. Yeah, usually it's like, oh,
they must have gone to a neighbor's house, like tired.
It just was not in the consciousness at all, right,
So that's great.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, so frantic Kathleen, who is eleven year old Joanne's mom.
She goes to an office in the stadium and immediately
is like, can you make an announcement for the girls
to come back to their seat, and the administrator overseeing
the match refuses, saying the stadium has a policy against
making mid game announcements because it could disrupt the game.

(26:22):
He recommends she talked to the police and sends her off.
Although right back in his office hanging out with him
is a police officer he doesn't even bother.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
So he sends her out to some other police stand
up in here.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, Like, that's how flippant he was. Go back to
your seat. I'm sure, I'm sure they'll show up. Yeah,
right there. The Ratcliffs and Grandma Rita spend the rest
of the game looking for the girls. When the game
ends at about four forty five, they return to the
office and ask again that an announcement be made. This time,
the administrator makes the announcement. He says over the PA system,
quote Joanne Radcliffe in Adelaide Oval, come back to your

(26:59):
mother and father, like no details. Not only is this
wording of the announcement super unhelpful. At this point, everyone
is leaving the stadium in mass, and so all the
noise from that completely drowns out the announcement. There's no
emergency to it either, you know, right right? Did you
ever get an announcement called at the grocery store on
you by your mom?

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Oh? No, because my mom never let go of my
neck at the grocery store.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Literally in your hand as we entered.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
As we entered, she would go, what are we going
to get today? And her hand would just very lightly
go to my neck. Now, was was that because I
was such a wonderful, responsive and listening child. No, she
had to hold me my neck everywhere I went, Like
where are we going to go? And then she would
kind of very lightly direct me if we're going to
turn and go down this way?

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Brilliant, brilliant. Yeah, you weren't her first rodeo. She was like,
I know how this goes.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
I was, well, I was, you know, I was a
real reflection of the time. Sure, seventy five?

Speaker 1 (27:59):
What's that? That's right? The family searches the whole stadium
and then they call the police. They the police are
about ten minutes after the game ends, but at that point,
almost all the spectators and potential witnesses have left.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
So frustrating and so kind of like, it's just how
all of these are we're knowing what we know today,
that it's just like gigantic mistakes at the earliest time.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Just all the missed opportunities to actually get ahead of this. Yeah,
but the police do thankfully take it seriously. Immediately they
set up roadblocks in the areas surrounding the stadium, you know,
but everyone's pretty much left and they begin an extensive
search for the girls. Meanwhile, Rita, the grandmother of Christy,
now has to call Kirsty's parents, who are out of

(28:44):
town along with their two year old daughter Catherine, and say, like,
your daughter, your four year old daughters missing from me
taking her to the game, Like how horrible, horrible. So
Kirsty's parents, Greg and Christine, Gordon and Me imediately head
back to Adelaide, which is about a three hour drive.
All night, searchers comb Adelaide and boats pass on the

(29:07):
nearby river torrents with search lights, and they turn up
absolutely nothing. The next morning, the search continues. Police search
the riverbank, divers search the river, and the river is
even partially drained. Meanwhile, as he aids in the search
for his daughter. Joanne's father Less breaks down and passes

(29:27):
out from grief, and no trace of the girls is found.
The story becomes national news, and Less Joanne's father he's
really big and the whole family is like really big
about getting the word out public statements. They're just like
devastated obviously, and like don't ever give up. And the
story becomes national news. Descriptions of the girls are widely

(29:50):
circulated throughout Australia. Police put out a call for information,
and that's when a horrible narrative begins to emerge. So
a thirteen year old boy named Anthony Kilmartin had been
working at the stadium on the day the girls were there.
He was selling concessions in the crowd. At the beginning
of the third quarter, he saw what he's sure was

(30:12):
the girls come down the grandstand steps toward the ground level.
Anthony then went into the concourse under the grandstands and
saw the girls again on their way to the bathroom.
This time he thinks he saw them being followed by
a man. Now, why would he remember this ordinary moment.
It's because of what happens next. He sees the man

(30:33):
bend down and pick up four year old Kirsty and
then Joanne. Eleven year old Joanne immediately reacts badly to this,
he says. Joanne starts chasing the man, grabbing at his
coat and kicking him in the shins, just fighting him.
The man calls Joanna bitch and tells her to go away,
and they scuffle, and while he's still holding Kirsty, the

(30:54):
man's glasses get knocked off, and when he bends down
to pick them up, he also grabs Joane by the
arm and pulls her along as well. They all exit
through the stadium's southern gate, with Joanne still trying to
fight this man off and Anthony. It's nineteen seventy three,
Anthony's thirteen years old. He thinks he just saw a
father trying to get his daughters to leave when they

(31:17):
don't want to. Yeah, and this is one of the
things we talk about all the time, is like, don't
mind your own business. Now we know, don't mind your business.
Go figure out what's going on. If you're wrong, then
you apologize and walk away if you're not great.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
But as we just talked about in the last episode,
talking about domestic violence and how that is this kind
of for so long, especially back then, And it's really
hard to understand now, but it was so dark ages
back then, growing up. That was back when other people's
parents could hit you. Other people's parents could slap you

(31:51):
in the face if you were if you were at
their house and that you did something they didn't like. Yeah,
it was so different.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
And so to see a dad, you know, do kind
of whatever as meanly or violently and crazily as they want,
it wasn't this kind of like, it wasn't as shocking
as it should have been for kids at that time.
You saw a lot more.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Well, the problem is adults saw them too.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
I mean that's what immediately infuriated he It's like a
thirteen year old boy wouldn't know what to do. What
the fuck were those people around thinking? For one second?

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, I know you feel so awkward, like butting into
people's business, especially when there's an angry person in the mix,
you know, not people in general, but like you'll never
regret doing something, You'll only regret not doing something right.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
It's yes, totally. I just as a person who was
raised by the ultimate butt in lady, I don't I
have empathy for people who were raised by people who
are like no, no, no, no no, because it's a very,
very scary thing. Some people are scared to just be like, hey,
i'd like another diet code totally much.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Less is what I order? Sir?

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Are you do you know this? Girl? Like it takes
so much, especially for women to do it. Yes, where
you're just like, oh, you're going to take on a
violent man or even question one. It's just like the things.
It's almost like, get a buddy, get a confrontation, buddy,
go or an employee that's there and go ask a question.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
That's so funny. I'm a butt in person as well.
You're not going to be surprised with Janet. My mom
is a butt in person, Yes she is. But I
definitely have made Vince undcomfortable before by being a butt
in person and like, sure, he you know, that's not
how you act, that's not what you do right, right,
But you never know, You never fucking know.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Well.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
And also I think it's the people who do it.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
They do it for a reason. They've seen stuff, right.
There are people who baby aren't as inclined because it's
easier for them to imagine everything's fine. And I think
I was raised by two people who know for a fact,
nothing is fine a lot of the time.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah. So you guy told don't get involved, it's like
you're already involved. Yeah, so see it out to the end.
I mean, Carrie Pepper spray read you.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Go just grab a confrontation friend. I really feel like
I just made that up, but it actually could work.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Can we have best friends necklaces and say confrontation friend
on it. You're my best confrontation friend.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
You don't have to say anything, just stand behind. Yeah.
So back, we need bodies.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
You need to be my wingman for the confrontation. Right.
So this kid, for the rest of his life, you know,
has to live with knowing you witnessed. Yeah, he was
traumatized by what he witnessed, but he didn't know. Yeah,
so he Yeah. So he believes he had just seen
a father, whom he describes as a lanky man wearing
glasses and a wide brimmed hat, arguing with his two daughters,

(34:44):
who like maybe just didn't want to leave the game early,
and he just goes about his day. He forgets out
the whole thing until he hears about the girl's disappearance,
and once this kid Anthony reports this to the police,
Joanne's family confirms that this is exactly how their eleven
year old daughter would react. She is known to be
protective of other kids. She once hit another kid with

(35:05):
a wooden plank because he was bullying her brother. And
they're adamant that she wouldn't have left Kirsty behind if
something bad was happening to her. You know, it's just
your heart goes out.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
It's horrible and heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah. In addition, Kirsty's parents say that their little girl
is exceptionally shy and would never willingly go off with
some stranger, you know. So it all adds up that
this is an abduction. So there's all this story. Another witness,
a man named Ken Woolling, is at the stadium. Is
the stadium's assistant curator. He says at the end of

(35:39):
the third quarter, at about four pm, he saw two
girls he believed to have been Joanne and Kirsty outside
the stadium. There's this whole thing about like they're really
stray kittens, and some kids were trying to coax out
the kittens, and there's this weird guy around them. The
timelines don't totally add up like we think Anthony's story
is one hundred percent true. This one, like, if you
piece it in time wise, it makes sense, but only

(36:02):
if it happened before what Anthony saw, so it's possible
as well. Police put out a composite sketch of this man,
and of course ascid he come forward so he can
be eliminated, but nobody does. Police put out a call
for tips, and more than four hundred people come forward.
And there's a lot more details in the case File
episode about witnesses and possible sightings, but I'm not going

(36:24):
to go into all of them. There are some credible tips,
including a few people who saw a man with a
similar description with two little girls. There's also a ransom
called with the family that's believed to be a hoax
and is never traced. A five thousand dollars reward is
announced for information leading to the recovery of the girls.
In today's dollars, that would be worth about.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Five thousand Australian dollars in the seventies. Huh would it
be like fifty grand.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Twenty eight grand for two missing little girls who have
been abducted from a stadium potentially? Look is a little
like what the fuck? Yeah, that's really low over this, right.
So that's partly because of what I'm gonna tell you next.
So there's this brazen daytime kidnapping in a very public place.
It's obviously terrifying for the public, right, which is why

(37:16):
it's partly such a big deal. It's like, it's not
it's just so brazen, right, you know. But it's also
alarming in the fact that it's not unfamiliar because there's
a recent case in the area that still looms large
in everyone's mind and people wonder if there's a connection.
About ten years earlier, on January twenty sixth, nineteen sixty six,

(37:37):
three siblings had disappeared from a town celebration in a
public park beach area in Glenelg, Australia, which is just
outside of Adelaide, very close. This is the Beaumont Children.
We never put out an episode about this case, but
I'm sure one of us covered it when we were
Australia touring and.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
We definitely probably both read about it in our choices
of life should we do this done? But as we
like did research but I did one. I remember not
details obviously, but just remember the idea.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yeah, and it comes up a let's come up recently
because there's always new leads. Again, it's a cold case.
So this happened about ten years before the girls were
kidnapped from the stadium. So the Beaumont children, it was
Jane who was nine, Arna who was seven, and Grant
Beaumont who was four. They'd all gone to the beach
on their own that day, the three of them, which

(38:29):
is Australia Day, so there was a lot of people
out celebrating, and witnesses recall seeing three children in the
company of a tall man with light hair and a
thin face, sun tan, medium build, Asian, his mid thirties,
and that's a very similar description to the man from
the stadium. The children were playing with him and appeared

(38:51):
to be relaxed and enjoying themselves like maybe they knew him,
and were seen walking away together from the beach. No
big deal, but they were never seen again and their
disappearance has never been solved and people have always believed
that these two cases are linked, and Case File covers
the Beaumont children in episode one hundred of Case File.

(39:12):
Over the years, multiple men, a disturbing amount of whom
have been convicted of other crimes against children in the
area and Australia in general have emerged as possible suspects
in this case, and a lot are tied to the
Beaumont abductions as well. There's a group of men known
by the media as the Family, who are thought to

(39:32):
be involved in a pedophile ring during the seventies and
eighties who are responsible for the kidnapping and sexual abuse
of a number of teenage boys and young men. This
is a fucking disturbing case case File covers in episode
one sixty six. There's so many gruesome details I'm clearly
not going to get into. Only one of those men

(39:53):
from the pedophile ring has ever been tried and convicted
for these crimes or even their name brought up in
the media. This man, named Bevin Spencer von Einem, was
sentenced in nineteen eighty four for the murder of a
fifteen year old boy named Richard Kelvin, who had been
abducted near his home in Adelaide. This man is now

(40:13):
considered a suspected serial killer and his name comes up
in connection with the Adelaide Oval abductions, mostly because of
the testimony against him by an anonymous informant, and this
anonymous informant was like part of this ring and still
gave this information. So it's not just like I don't know.
It seems more credible because of that. Well right, yeah, yeah,

(40:34):
And this anonymous informant says that Bevin Spencer von Einem
once boasted to him that he had taken the children
and dumped the bodies in bushland south of Adelaide. These
allegations have never been sustained, but this dude is pure
fucking evil and it's a very disturbing case. In nineteen
ninety nine, a man named Arthur Stanley Brown is charged

(40:58):
in another awful cold case. On the twenty sixth of
August nineteen seventy, which is just three years before the
abductions in the Stadium, sisters Judith who was seven, and
Susan McKay who was five, disappeared from a suburb of Townsville, Queensland,
less than ten minutes after leaving their home, and were
later found murdered two days later. This man was not

(41:20):
convicted because of a hung jury and was not given
a new trial because he was in his nineties by
the time he was charged. Remember it happened in nineteen
seventy and he wasn't arrested until nineteen ninety nine, so
they considered him too senile to stand trial, although some
people think he was faking it now. This occurred in
nineteen seventy, three years before the abductions of Joanne and Kirsty.

(41:43):
These locations aren't close, however. He bears a resemblance to
the descriptions of the man in the wide brim hat,
and he's also considered a prime suspect for the Beaumont
children disappearance. A witness from that day near the stadium
identic fid him much later as the man, which is
not very reliable, but he's a potential suspect. And then

(42:07):
Joanne's little sister, Susie Wilkinson, she believes that it was
a different third suspect. This is a man named Stanley
Arthur Hart and he's known as a pedophile. He lives
in the area. He's a devoted supporter of the North
Adelaide Football Club, which is one of the two teams
playing Adelaide Oval on the day of the abduction, so

(42:27):
it's very likely he was there. Seven years before they
were taken, he had been charged with six sex offenses
against an eleven year old girl. In two thousand and nine,
his own grandson gave a written confession saying that he
and his grandfather were at Adelaide Oval on the days
the girls disappeared, but he was three or four years
old on the day of the game at the stadium,

(42:49):
and when he wrote this confession in two thousand and nine,
he was in prison for charges for crimes against children,
and so authorities initially dismissed these claims, but private and
investigators for the Gordon and Ratcliffe families take them very seriously.
This man, the grandfather, died in nineteen ninety nine, and
in the late two thousands, private investigators searched a property

(43:11):
in a rural area about two hours north of Adelaide
that belonged to the grandfather, following a hand drawn map
that this grandson had provided to them like he was
adamant that this is was his grandfather. This map leads
the investigators to an underground tunnel which contains two steel barrels.
They call the police in the police return to the site.

(43:33):
They determine that the barrels had traces of blood in them.
Some re parts also claim that the investigators found a
scrap book with newspaper clippings about the abduction, as well
as children's clothing on the floor. Like, it's just all
this shit that you're like, test it, test it, test it.
It hasn't been tested fully, right, It's just it doesn't
make any sense.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Well, it's always those things where it goes into like
investigation and then you don't hear about it, and unless
they solve it.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
That's exactly what it is. The The thing is that
Anthony Kilmartin, the thirteen year old concession worker, he sees
a photo of this man, the grandfather and the hat
he used to wear, which they also find out his house,
and he believes it's an exact match of the man
he saw at the game that day, which seems a
little more credible to me since seems like going to
be burned into his memory absolutely, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Ye.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Back in nineteen seventy four, after the disappearance of the girls,
both the Ratcliffs and the Gordons welcome baby girls into
their families, so Joanne her little sister Susie, who they
never got to meet. She goes on to be one
of the biggest champions for solving this case, and she
still is she continues to push for answers today. She's
about fifty now and she is the last living member

(44:42):
of Joanne's immediate family. She is determined to see the
case solved. The family moved out of Adelaide in the eighties,
and Susie says, quote to the very day we left,
Mom would leave the front light on in the hope
one day Joe would come home. My niece now leaves
her front light on, something that's carried on through generations
end quote. And Susi actually runs an organization called Leave

(45:06):
a Light On, and they advocate from missing persons and
their loved ones. I know. In a recent Women's Weekly article,
Susie said that she thinks about her sister's bravery often,
and she says, quote, people forget that she was only eleven.
She was given the responsibility of looking after Kirstie, and
she's stuck by that, even if it meant sacrificing herself.

(45:27):
Oh God, I know, little Kirsty. For your Kirstie's parents,
they've been generally less public over the years, but they
do speak to the press occasionally. Kirstie's mom, Christine said
in twenty seventeen, quote, what is closure? Do you need
to have a body, Do you need to have a funeral?
Do you need to bring her home to us? She

(45:48):
is home because she is here with us. End quote.
And that is the heartbreaking story of the Adelaide Oval abductions.
My god, I know, but it could I think it
could be solved.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
It sounds like there's a lot of material there, yeah,
to be processed and tested. Yeah, and looked into.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Definitely. There's actually a go fund me being run by
an investigative journalist to have those barrels tested more thoroughly. Wow,
that you can go check out. And yeah, police haven't
thoroughly tested those barrels. It's just wild yeah wow. Yeah,
sorry for another cold case.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
But well hopefully they're just getting put on a pile
of things to be taken care of.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
And also I think I think you're right in the
way that this it is really important to talk about
them because there is action that could possibly be taken
that needs to still be taken.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Definitely. I mean, they're just cold cases. Are just the
stories we tell that haven't gotten their answer yet. It's
not that that's it stand the story. It's an unsolved
mystery like it's just still waiting for the last puzzle piece.
And so maybe when we tell these stories, people will
pay more attention and it can happen.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Yeah, I'm purely speaking for my own frustration and difficulty
of of uh. But you're right, that's that's the important piece.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
I mean, I wonder why we have such differing opinions
about them, Like I won't I won't even start a
puzzle because I don't care about finishing it.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Ah, you have to finish what is wrong.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
I'd rather think about the puzzle, puzzle over the puzzle
and then watch TV. I don't care.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
It's because but I think I've explained the piece of
the puzzling that works. That is what I'm in it for,
which is, you stare at something long enough, and after
a while, it's like your brain goes, put your hand
here and take this and put it here, and suddenly
you don't know why you knew that this was the
piece that went there. And if you do that, I
find and if I do that long enough, it's this

(47:49):
weird like suddenly the momentum of its just building suddenly
starts to go and then it's putting itself together.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
That's why I want to tell the okay stories. It's
because I'm like Karen, my friend, you're interested in this too, Like,
let's put these pieces together. Let's like, you know, make
our eyes all soft and where the last piece goes,
we could do this. Yeah, I don't know, just to me.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Yes, that's what you're saying to all the people listening.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Put the pieces together. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
I'll accept that, and I will take that, and with
that acceptance, I will turn this car around.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Please God.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
But it's not any less sad or difficult. But there's
a little, a little shiny light in it. And it
begins on the morning of January twelfth, eighteen eighty eight.
What here in America, in a sparsely populated part of
central Nebraska near the small town of Ord, Do you

(48:52):
know what else happened in eighteen eighty eight?

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Something I should know? Lincoln? It's the war? Was that
someone work? What is it?

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Just like, first of all, I will never test you
on history, will never test you on history. I know
this well, I mean not particularly. But it's the year
did Jack the Ripper killings house?

Speaker 1 (49:14):
That's what I Yeah, there we go all eights. When
did Lincoln get shot?

Speaker 2 (49:19):
That's none of our business. We were failed by the
American school system, and therefore we don't have to look back.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Right, It's not my fucking problem. Okay.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
So on this winter morn, a nineteen year old teacher,
nineteen year old teacher named Minnie Freeman, is walking to
her tiny school house where she teaches thirteen of the
local homesteaders children ranging in ages from six to fifteen. Okay,
the schoolhouse is a one room sod house, and a

(49:50):
sod house was the thing they used to do out
on the prairie because you know, they didn't have any
supplies and they just kind of had to do their best.
So that means that a house usually definitely the roof
and sometimes even the walls are constructed from packed dirt
and prairie grass.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Are you watching that show, that new show with Betty Gilpin?
I did watch it, But so the show is American Primeval.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
And it's based on I think, based on the Mountain.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Meadows massacre that you covered, which I believe I covered
definitely covered. No, No, you covered that on an episode, right,
I remember it on a not live outside Yeah. Okay, okay,
so here.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
We are, so here we are. But it basically is
that where it's people living on the open prairie, settlers
homesteaders making what they can, so like there was some
of the I saw picture. Alejandra and Maren found picture
of one of these sod houses, and the one I
saw it was like the walls were made of like
piled up rocks, and then the windows were kind of

(50:50):
built into the holes where they left, and then the
roof was sawed and flat. But then there's also the
ones where they build them. This is very Laura Wilder,
where they build them kind of into the ground so
that they're like protected. There's all kinds of ways they
were trying to do that stuff. But what we're saying
is there was no like Western warn horse Town or

(51:13):
anything like that. It was like there are no supplies
here situation. So the sod house is a common structure
found on the frontier that settlers can quickly build to
live or work in without basically the luxury of their
usual building supplies like oh, I don't know, wood and nails.
So mini sod schoolhouse has a stove in it. We're

(51:37):
not sure if it's wood burning or coal burning, but
it was like a central stove. It has a couple windows,
and it has one door and that's it. So it's
not fancy, but of course it completely serves its purpose
as a classroom. And while it's probably drafty, it's of
course better than any alternative, which is learning outside. And
of course the warmth is especially important in the winter

(51:59):
of eighteen eighty eight, because this one is actually a
brutal one. We are at the tail end of what's
called quote the Little Ice Age, where one of several
years long periods where the entire earth is colder than average,
and then that leads to more intense winters across much
of the US.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Yeah, So, even though it did snow a few inches
the night before, the weather on this day, January twelfth,
eighteen eighty eight is very mild. So by the time
Minnie's walking to school that day, it's gone from snowing
the night before to climbed all the way up into
the forties. So that's much much warmer than a typical

(52:43):
mid January day.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
In the eighteen eighties.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
For our friends everywhere besides the US, this is all fahrenheit.
And I do apologize because the impact of the weather
I'm going to be announcing right now is there's going
to be a math delay for you. It is like
kind of kind of unseasonably warm weather. That's probably why
no one realizes a cold front is about to hit

(53:09):
and leave an unsuspecting population in the wake of one
of the deadliest winter storms in recorded history. This is
the story of the devastating school house Blizzard of eighteen
eighty eight, also known as the Children's Blizzard.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Oh shit, yeah, it's a never good one. They name
it after children.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
No no, So the main sources used that Maren used
in the research today are The Children's Blizzard, which is
a book by author David Laskin, and that book is
heavily sighted. Also an episode of the Radiotopia podcast This
Day in Esoteric Political History, and the episode is called
the Children's Blizzard. And then of course multiple articles from

(53:48):
the Omaha Evening b newspaper from eighteen eighty eight. Maren
goes all the way back, and the rest of the
sources are in our show notes. So here's a little
scene setting to start this off talking about weather back then.
Of course, as human beings, we've been tracking weather since
basically we understood what was going on around us. We

(54:10):
love it, we love it fun to talk about By
the end of the nineteenth century, when the story takes place,
scientists are doing what's, of course, compared to today, pretty
basic meteorology. The United States has an organized weather service
that's been around since eighteen seventy. It falls under the
purview of the US Army because of the Army's reputation

(54:33):
for being meticulous and disciplined. So basically, weather forecasting works
this way. Back then, Mondays through Saturdays, at military bases
and outposts across the country, US Army Signal Corps officials
collect weather data temperatures, air pressure, wind speed, etc. And
then they send it via telegraph to forecasters at a

(54:55):
central office in Washington, d C. Those forecasters in d
C analyze that data, they make predictions, They send the
information back to the Signal Core, and then those forecasts
are printed in newspapers.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
You lost met Here's how it works.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Here's how it works. The weather goes out, so obviously
the telegraph makes all of that like fast and possible
at the time, but compared to today, this is like
one of the slowest ways to get any kind of
news or information.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
I don't know, though, Dallas rains, it's gonna rain. The
world fucking never does, or a dozen doesn't.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
A lot of this. It's funded gesture. We all love
a green screen. And yeah, full props to Dallas Rains,
always and forever, still working, I believe, still doing it.
I think so legendary. If you're from somewhere else and
you have never heard of the legendary Los Angeles weatherman
Dallas Rains, get with it, get on board. He's one

(55:54):
of the greats. I used to in my studio apartment
when things were very dark, I would get nice and
high and watch the eleven o'clock news, and I was
always positive Dallas Rains was high along with it because
the stuff he would say. I'd be like, this is hilarious.
I'd be like, Dallas, why is this weather man like
saying this weird shit and making me laugh so hard?

(56:14):
Probably okay, So all this in mind. January twelfth, eighteen
eighty eight, In this same mild morning, where Minnie Freeman
is heading off to work, army forecasters in DC are
sending out reports via telegraph warning of impending severe weather
across several states, including Nebraska, of course, which is where
many is, Minnesota, Iowa, and what's then known as the

(56:38):
Dakota Territory, because this is still before radio and America.
The way important news is communicated when it can't wait
for the next day's newspaper is frontier settlements hoist a
flag to alert residents of emergency weather situations. Problem is
that homesteaders out in a place like central Nebraska live

(57:01):
nowhere near each other or a central community, So if
people aren't nearby when those emergency flags are hoisted, they
just don't know. And it's all kind of word of mouth.
So many and her students experience this abrupt and shocking
weather change around three o'clock, right basically when the school

(57:23):
day is ending. So the temperature on what was a
warm morning and into the afternoon suddenly plummets almost seventy
degrees holy shit, and goes from the forties to minus
twenty below zero.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
No, yeah, it's not fair.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
And then of course the sky opens up, ice and
hal begin to pelt the sod schoolhouse, and hurricane level
winds kickout. So now basically it's a strong wind that
just keeps on building, and then ice and hail and
last night's snowfall all start getting blown around.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
They're all on the pit mashing.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
That's all together nasty trio. So suddenly, across a huge
swath of the Midwest, countless people are caught in extreme weather.
A schoolboy named HG. Purcell, who lives in the Dakota
Territory now South Dakota, describes the situation like this. We
were all out playing in our shirt sleeves, without hats

(58:28):
or mittens. Suddenly we looked up and saw something come
rolling toward us with great fury from the northwest and
making a loud noise. I never thought about that part
of it. The storm rolls in and is like it.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Rolls in loud totally.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
It looked like a long string of big bales of
cotton that looked to be about twenty five feet high.
The phenomenon was so unusual that it scared us children,
and several of us ran into the schoolhouse and screamed
to the teacher to come out quickly and see what
was happening. End quote. So it's hard to overstate the

(59:03):
shock people experience on this beautiful morning that basically it
lured people outside, many to go run errands on foot
or tend to their land, or in the case the
children walk to school without their warmest winter coats, some
without shoes, or at least some in just in basically

(59:27):
off seasoned shirts and sleeves whatever. So then now they're
out of nowhere, caught in weather they're completely unprepared for.
Author David Laskin reports, quote, even in a region known
for abrupt and radical meteorological change, the blizzard of eighteen
eighty eight was unprecedented in its violence and suddenness. One

(59:49):
moment it was mild, the sun was shining. The next moment,
frozen hell had broken loose. So it's the end of
the school day. As I said, when the weather suddenly
turns so young Minnie, who's the sole adult in charge
eighteen nineteen years old, she does not think going outside
as a sensible option. At this point, hurricane force wind

(01:00:11):
gusts are now pummeling the tiny school house, and they
blast the door right off its hinges. As the younger
students go and huddle around the woodburning stove to keep warm,
Minnie and a couple of the older students try to
prop the door back up. It almost immediately blows back down.
So Minnie goes find some nails and she nails the

(01:00:32):
door shut. So for the time being, that's held in place.
But now Minnie has to plan her next steps. She
and the students all live at least a quarter of
a mile from this schoolhouse, so she's trying to figure
out is it less risky to dismiss the children and
hope that they make it back home or keep them
inside to wait out the storm in a schoolhouse that

(01:00:56):
isn't exactly a structurally sound, has a dwindling amount of
fuel for the fire, and basically doesn't have any food.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
No, it feels like the place is just gonna melt
around them. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Yeah. So teachers across the Midwest go through the same
horrible dilemma because, like Mani, they teach in shoddy buildings
or Saudi buildings that are of course not equipped to
handle weather this extreme, and many teachers believed that the
better option that day was to dismiss their students and

(01:01:28):
send them home in this storm. Minnie decides no, She's
going to hunk her down and ride this storm out
with her kids in the schoolhouse. But she's just praying
the schoolhouse can make it. And as she's doing that,
a gust of wind picks up the roof of the
schoolhouse and blows it away.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Shit.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
So now as the snow and hail and ice are
pouring into the schoolhouse, Minnie has to make a new
plan fast. With the front door the only door nailed shut,
she starts wrangling her students and throwing them out the
window to get out. So there was a legend that
Minnie tied all the kids together with twine, but that

(01:02:10):
detail has actually been disputed by at least one of
her actual students who went through it that day. Great
visual for like the legend of the story, and actually
very needed once and I'm sure it probably came up
later once people heard the stories of what happened to
the kids that did go home by themselves or even
in groups. So Minnie's plan now is to walk her

(01:02:32):
students to her house, which is about half a mile away.
It doesn't sound that far, but in the middle of
a blizzard it would have been painfully long, and their
white out conditions so it's hard for them to see
any more than like a foot or so in front
of them. If any child takes even just a few
steps away from the group, they could be blinded by

(01:02:54):
the snow, turned around, and then just lost. On top
of that, the snowflakes in this storm are extremely fine
and icy, so as they land on the children's faces,
they're just freezing their eyelid shut man and minis minis
as well. Also, the sheer amount of these flakes in
the air causes the snow to get stuck in their throats.

(01:03:18):
It makes it hard to breathe. Survivors liken it to
breathing in large amounts of flower or sand, and David
Laskin notes that experts have compared it to quote the
smoke and ash rolling through the canyons of Lower Manhattan
after the towers of the World Trade Center collapsed on
September eleventh.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
I never thought about that. But the snow you can
inhale it, Yeah, I never thought about.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
That, right, like completely blinds you. But then it also
like seals your eyes shut with ice, Like you're just
going against.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
But you can't take a deep breath without the snow
coming into your mouth, right, and it's Jesus.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
They also make their way through shirt colors, pants, waist bands,
even shoes, so the children are drenched, freezing, yeah, constantly
slipping and falling as they walk. The wind is battering them.
It's actually painful and Minnie will later say, quote, I've
never felt such a wind. It blew the snow so
hard that the flake's stung your face like arrows. All

(01:04:15):
you could see ahead of you was a blinding, blowing
sheet of snow. So there are several well known and
very tragic stories that came out of this storm. For example,
across the state, in Seward, Nebraska, an eleven year old
girl named Lena Vibecki is dismissed from school and as
she walks home in this storm, she becomes disoriented. She

(01:04:38):
will wake up hours later still outside, frozen to the ground.
But Lena heroically musters the strength she breaks herself free,
and she manages to crawl back to her own house,
even though she can't feel her legs. What the fuck
And in the end, Lena survives. She just loses one

(01:04:59):
of her feet to frostbite, but she saves herself. She's
frozen to the grass. She wakes up still alive, wakes
up and it's like, yeah, we're doing this, We're getting home.
Up in Holt County, Nebraska, there's a nineteen year old
teacher named Eda Shaddock. She gets caught in the storm
while heading home after picking up her paycheck. As the

(01:05:22):
temperature nose dives, she becomes snowblind. She seeks refuge in
a haystack and she is forced to shelter there for
seventy eight hours before finally being found. Oh my god,
no food, no water, just hoping, like hoping to live
in a haystack. That's too long. So she lives then.

(01:05:44):
But then once she's discovered, she has to go into
surgery because she develops frostbite on her feet, and she
actually dies due to complications from the surgery, but survives.
Like that time, up in the northeast corner of the state,
in Plainview, Nebraska, another young school teacher named Lois Royce
gets stranded on the open prairie. She's just run out

(01:06:07):
of fuel at her school house, so she attempts to
make it to the nearest home, which is only two
hundred yards away, with three students, all under the age
of ten. But because of the white out conditions, Lois
and the children can't see where they're going, so they
end up walking past the house, and then they just
keep walking and the children, of course are freezing. None

(01:06:31):
of them can go any further, so they just stop
in the open prairie. Mid blizzard, and they're just kind
of stranded, just in not knowing where they are. Speaking
generally about the children who get stuck outside that day,
David Laskin notes, quote, It's hard to fathom how children
who walk to and from school half a mile or
more every day became exhausted to the point of a

(01:06:54):
collapse while walking one hundred yards that afternoon. Hard to
fathom until you can see it. Are the state of
their thin cotton clothing, their eyelashes webbed with ice and
frozen shut, the ice plugs that formed inside their noses,
the ice masks that hung on their faces. Lois does
everything she can to keep her students warm, using just

(01:07:16):
her body and her cloak, but the children die as
they're pressed against her, and somehow she survives, but she
has to have her feet amputated because of frostbite.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
So all of these tragic stories are from Nebraska, which
is especially affected by this blizzard, but the storm touches
much of the United States. According to the Minnesota Post newspaper, quote,
though Upper Midwesterners lost the most, the blizzard was truly
a nationwide phenomenon. Ice skating was reported in San Francisco
on January fourteenth, which is ladies and gentlemen unheard of,

(01:07:53):
along with frozen water mains in Los Angeles, Fort Elliot,
Texas registered a below zero temperature on the fourteenth, and
for the first time in anyone's memory, parts of the
Colorado River in Texas froze over. So it was extreme
and insane. So back in central Nebraska, Mini and her

(01:08:16):
students are still out trying to find their way through
this blizzard, trying to make it to any kind of shelter,
and Minnie's doing everything she can to keep her students
moving forward. Elements of her story are spotty summer disputed.
For example, we don't know exactly how long her trek lasted,
or how long she and the students hunkered down before

(01:08:36):
the children were reunited with their parents. Even their destination
is a bit unclear. Some sources say the group successfully
made it to Minnie's house, which was the initial plan,
but according to an article that ran in the Omaha
Evening b just days later, they say that they instead
ended up at one of Mini's students' homes, which is
a bit closer to the schoolhouse than Minnie's was. Either way,

(01:09:00):
made it Wow, it's the important thing. It's like the
idea that Minnie makes this plan where she's like, fine,
we'll just go to my house and then like somewhere
along the way. I bet you some kids.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Like, hey, there's Jesus.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
That's how I like too, That's how I'll write it total.
But after several hours, once the blizzard finally subsides, Minnie
and the children see the full extent of what has
happened around them. Not only has the storm destroyed buildings
and created massive, barn sized snowbanks, but it's also claimed
many lives for the parents of Minnie's thirteen children. Learning

(01:09:35):
that their kids made it would feel like nothing short
of a miracle, one that Minnie herself is solely responsible for.
The Omaha Evening Bee describes the scene as one of
the students is reunited with their parents, reporting quote, if
the eyes of a loving mother filled with tears as
she pressed her little one to her heart, they were
not dried when she gave the brave young teacher Minnie Friedman,

(01:09:58):
an embrace in which was embod all the love and
gratitude within a mother's heart, it is safe to say
that the subsequent reception of miss Freeman in all the
homes whose little ones she had rescued, perhaps from death,
was equally as warm. So the extent of chaos, death,
and disruption associated with this blizzard is huge across the Midwest.

(01:10:20):
Trains are stopped in their tracks, Farmers lose the entirety
of their crops, and their livestock freezes to death. But then,
of course there's the loss of human life. Experts say
we'll never know the true death count because the population
wasn't known as well. David Laskin estimates that they were
between two hundred and fifty and five hundred victims of

(01:10:42):
this snowstorm, many of them being children who were either
at school, hunkering down, or trying to head home after
being dismissed. Because of this, the snowstorm is eventually nicknamed
the school house Blizzard or the Children's Blizzard. More people
will die in the days weeks following the storm, from
things like pneumonia or frostbite, or gangreen from frostbite. As

(01:11:06):
the word of this terrible event spreads beyond the region,
an overwhelming sense of grief is felt by the entire country,
and that's when this feel good story of the nineteen
year old teacher in Nebraska who saved her entire class
starts getting attention. The Omaha Evening Bee first reports on
Minnie Freeman, saying, quote, those who have braved the terrors

(01:11:27):
of a Nebraska blizzard need not be told that it
required courage to enable a young girl to breast those furies,
having in her keeping the lives of thirteen little ones
and the happiness of thirteen homes. Shit. Those who felt
and suffered from the effects of Thursday storm need not
be told that the act of that young girl was

(01:11:47):
one from which strong men themselves might quail. Ah Nit
Ni Nit love you, Minnie. Soon more papers start to
circulate Mini's story virtually overnight, nineteen year old Mini Freeman
becomes a much needed hero. She's lionized, she's celebrated, she's
nicknamed Nebraska's fearless Maid. And then over in Chicago, a

(01:12:09):
music publishing company debuts a song about Mini called quote
thirteen were Saved, And it goes a little something like.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
This, take a one Anna two hell No, thirteen.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Saved thirteen rese thirteen you always just do it, Hello
and Baby. The New York Times reports that she that
MANI receives letters and gifts and more. The Omaha Evening
Bee actually describes her this way. They say, quote Minnie Freeman.
It is above medium height, dark hair, gray eyes, and
a remarkably pretty girl. She is said to be an

(01:12:43):
excellent musician and a possessor of a charming voice. It's
believed that Minnie receives nearly two hundred marriage proposals from
strangers after this story. Get it right, They're like, she's brave,
she's pretty. Yeah, come work on my farm.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
The essentially, come have lots of children.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Yep, bear my children and do all that for me. Meanwhile,
over in DC, government officials are trying to figure out
how to make sure that no American is ever caught
off guard by such a huge storm. Again. This only
gets more urgent when just months later, in March of
eighteen eighty eight, another historic blizzard hits the northeastern United

(01:13:24):
States and Canada. It had strengthened after working hours on
a Saturday, which at the time Army forecasters didn't work
on Sundays, so no one knew this storm was coming.
It became the Great Blizzard of eighteen eighty eight, with
parts of the Northeast seeing nearly sixty inches of snowfall
and fifty foot tall snow drifts, six five story building

(01:13:49):
snow drifts. This storm claims around four hundred lives, including
two hundred deaths in New York City alone.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Wow. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
On the heels of these two blizzards, the federal government
decides to restructure the Weather Bureau in eighteen ninety one.
It's moved from the Army's purview over to the Department
of Agriculture, which has the reputation of being much more
science minded, smart, and they begin tracking weather across the
country twenty four to seven. Today, the agency overseeing weather

(01:14:19):
is the National Weather Service, which lives under the National
Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. They still track the weather around
the clock and fortunately have the means to spread alerts
and advisories to warn us about extreme weather events.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
What's the look they're going to shut that one down to?

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
They're gonna shut that one?

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
Or who are they going to put in charge of
that one? Says fucking Cruela Deville. Let's can we please
have a government? Could competency be the name of the game.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
Why are we politicizing weather? These departments are important for
this country, necessary even and the idea that people running
them should have experience, knowledge, a clear criminal record, a background,
basic step have run have been chosen by the.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
Pure asking too many? You're asking for too much, Karen,
You're right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
Let me just conclude here. As for Minnie Freeman, she
stays active in her community for the rest of her life,
first in Nebraska. Later, when she moves with her husband
to Illinois, she becomes active there. The New York Times notes, quote,
she was a political and social activist in Nebraska and
Chicago at a time when female public figures were few

(01:15:34):
and far between. Got it Girl, Minni Freeman becomes the
first female member of the Republican National Committee to represent Nebraska.
She's part of a group that creates at state seal.
She's even appointed as a delicate to different political conferences
by two Nebraska governors. When asked about her heroic adventure

(01:15:55):
during the schoolhouse blizzard in eighteen eighty eight, which earned
her so much fame at the time, she matter of
factly tells the Omaha Evening Bee that quote, I feel
that too much has already been said of an act
of simple duty, notoriety. I do not desire end.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
Quote humble too.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
It's like case file style. Minnie Freedman passes away in
nineteen forty three when she's in her early seventies, and
that is the story of Minnie Freeman and the schoolhouse
blizzard of eighteen eighty eight and the survival of her
thirteen students that day.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
They made it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Wow Wow, good job.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
Thank you, thanks too many Freeman and all of the
teachers of America.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Yes, thank you for your service.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Of your what you believe to be a simple active duty.
But oftentimes, and especially in twenty twenty five, America is
much much more.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
Yeah, we all know that and so overlooked. But we
appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
We do.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
We do over here Hill, your sister a law, and
your fucking mom that we appreciate you. Here.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
Call my sister and tell her because she doesn't listen.
Oh yeah, that I appreciate her. Carol Craft, do you
mind calling Laura and telling her she's getting a shout out?

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
Thank you for being a teacher, Laura. All right, we
did it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
I guess we did. What do you think I love
what we did?

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
Yeah, we really did it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
And I love what all of our listeners did today.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
Yeah, thank yous. Ceramics We love it forever. Thank you
for listening and being a part of this this craziness.
Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Good Bye, Elvis. Do
you want a cookie?

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
This has been an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our managing producers Hannah
Kyle Crichton. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was
mixed by Leanna Scuialachi. Our researchers are Maren mcclashan and
Ali el.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder. Byebye,
m