48 - An Albert Fish Production

On this week's My Favorite Murder (now with a stick of shitty gum!), Karen and Georgia recount the Starved Rock State Park murders and the mysterious ongoing kidnapping case of Sherri Papini.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Nothing. It just feels like it's been a long time.
It does, Oh, it has it has been? Yeah, are
we recording?

Speaker 1 (00:23):
It's good?

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Good because we need to get this figured out.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
It has been I guess we I guess almost two weeks.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Sorry since like apartment record.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yeah, because we did our house show last week.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
That was a fun that was different.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
That was nuts.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
That was nuts.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
That was a break from reality. It was super fun.
We love you, Jamie Lee.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Jamielee's books coming out.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's right, thanks for being ridiculous is coming out.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
I called it.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
We ash what alichs you did with the absolute confidence.
That's all that matters is when you say stuff. Yeah, yeah,
they should change the title right now. That's well, they
might have to, right. No, And she she was talking
about and then I thought it would be funny when
she was trying to plug it at the end to
interrupt her.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
It'd be like, we're done. And did she get her
feelings hurt? Did you hear?

Speaker 3 (01:13):
I said, I didn't blame it on you. Did she
get her feelings her? Did you hurt her feelings?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
You? No? I apologize to her after where I was
like that really seemed like it was going to be
funny to me, and then it didn't. But it's like
you know that thing where it's funny in the moment
and then like you forty eight hours passed and you're
like this feels bad. And she was like, oh my god, no,
it was super funny. But she the whole reason she
was trying to say that is because if people order

(01:38):
the pre order, yeah, it can get onto the possibly
get onto the New York Times Best.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Sef out of that. I mean, I'm fuck writing a book.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
I know there's a lot involved, but she's and she's
kind of an expert on stuff like that, so she's
worked really hard. I mean she's been working on this
book for a really long time since I've known her
longer than since she got engaged. Yeah, I mean since
high school. Weird.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
No, that was a really fun show. The Last Podcast
on the Left Dudes.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Oh and we didn't I don't think we did. We
talk about it on the show that we went and
recorded their show that day.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
You know, there's like a bonus episode at log fuck
at Last Podcast on the lefts like page, iTunes page
or whatever that is us just like a fucking half
hour conversation with them. Yeah, someone got mad at us
because we said we weren't interested in UFOs.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Oh, but I have a very good reason for not
being interested in UFOs because they scared this fucking shit
out of me. I just don't feel It's like with ghosts,
it's like, why are we talking about this? Yes, they
probably exist, but where there's no proof true, although it
don't make me retell you my ghost of me, So
there is proof I have it.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
It ghost tugged me. UFO scare you.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, the idea of UFOs being real is like having
a psychotic break where like suddenly what you know is
no longer the truth and there's a whole new truth.
And the idea of that is very upsetting to me.
And like it's that thing where when it happens in
a UFO movie where suddenly there's the thing hanging over
the city or whatever. Yeah, like in District nine, Yes,

(03:09):
where it's just like I just don't want to go there,
like it life is hard enough.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well, you know, what I think I've always loved is
the fact that our brains can't literally can't compute certain things.
So if it's outside of our reality, so much of
like a fucking alien in the sky or a fucking
ghost standing before us, or some insane thing happening. Our
brain will just be like, Nope, you can just fucking
shut it off and you won't even see this thing happening.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
You think that's true.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
I think that's true.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yes. Do you have to remind you for a third
time I was.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Hugged by a ghost.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
That's a feeling though you're in full denial about my
ghost experience two.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Ghosts, Like as a kid, I saw things happen, but
I still am like, well, my brain is weird that
it did the hut.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Oh, I see. So you're basically like you shut it
down emotionally, like we're not going to go into the
freak out of that.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Is that what you're probably probably?

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, Like the same thing with thinking about this podcast
and people are.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Listening, I'm just like, no, no, I can't.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
We're just here on recatch.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Someone's like everything's going great, and I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I just go it's super weird and then I change
a subject immediately.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
The thing that is now becoming like the funny thing
that listeners are writing is we didn't know this was
going to be a thing.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, they're they're with us completely. They understandn't either, clearly.
They were like, yeah, I was here when it was
just five thousand of us.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
We didn't think this was going to be a thing.
I thought we were weirdos too, including you.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Hi. This is my favorite murder. It's a podcast starring
Georgia Harstark and Karen Kilgarriff. Our sound technician is a
man named Stephen Stephen Ray Morris and his mustache, and
and is this is day four hundred and three of
Steven's mustache.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
We've been counting.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
He's doing it. He's going to grow it all the
way around his mouth. I think that's my personal.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
I thought you were going to say his head, that
would be funny, but just tied in the back.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh my god, why is that not a thing? Mustache
fucking sounds like a nightmare. Yeah, you have to do
it now, Stephen David.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Only for you, Karen, speaking.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Of only for us, Stephen brought okay.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Stephen is like does everything for us, does everything so
fucking sweet and wonderful, and also.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Thinks about things like what's more than we do?

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Because we don't know, Because we didn't know this was
going to be a thing, right, So but he did,
he did, and he he like was prepared for it.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
He prints things out for us plans, but also he
brings us present.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Herought us this holiday present.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
We have a non denominational holiday presence at our each
seat on the couch. So we decided we're going to
open them on the air with you guys.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
I know what this is gonna be.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Oh my god, it sounds God, is this fun? You
got us serial killer baseball card, crime g men, mass murders,
serial killers, and games. And they're like, they're like baseball
card package you got even I'm gonna fucking have a seizure.
Rice is really good? Are these like old?

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah? Like these are hard to find from like the nineties.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
They think, Oh, I'm like I see people posts on
the fucking Facebook page like I've had these since the
nineties and everyone's like.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Fuck you.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
And you got like five packs of them for both
of this is really good? Is there going there?

Speaker 1 (06:24):
I wouldn't eat it.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
If there was, I'm going to and then I'll sue
you if anything happens. And then now there's a secondary
bigger ones. He's a classy man that gives you a
small gift with this bigger gift underneath it. Oh my god,
Oh my god, what is It's his memoir of what
assholes we are? But you get let's see it's the book.
Oh my god. This is the book of Vicky Morgan
and Alfred Bloomingdale in the Affair that shook the highest

(06:47):
levels of government and society. Oh my god, British one right,
it was.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
The woman in Washington, d C. You see Dominatrix and
the sex kids cover up.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
That book is fucking I want that on my shirt. Wait,
this is eighties.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
This one is by Larry uh Honor. It's called Cults
that Kill a Probing the Crime the Underworld of.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
A Cold Cry.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yes, Stephen, these are goople, go us my. I thought
for a second I thought this book was about uh,
somebody that was in the Bengals, because that is totally.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
This was written in nineteen eighty eight. I'm so fucking
like at the height of the Satanic panic.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
This is so good, Steve, I call it. They say
panic pants, Stephen. We got your model of single malts.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
We got you this old wrapping paper.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
I'm sweating because I'm so happy.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
That's really good.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
I can't wait. So I don't think I should open.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
You give and you give, Thank you, Steven.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
The pet Let's do this good idea. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Also when we talked about the plan was that we
were going to open these on the air, and Stephen,
would you say it would be good for.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Okay? Oh my god, Oh my god. What'd you get?
What'd you get? Rita cop?

Speaker 2 (08:05):
I got the Hall Mills case, which on September sixteenth,
nineteen twenty two, a couple walking down a country lane
near New Brunswick, New Jersey, found two bodies lying under
a crab apple tree. It was Reverend Edward Hall forty
one and missus Eleanor Mills, thirty two, a member of
his church choir. He had been both had been shot,

(08:25):
her throat had been cut. Oh, I've heard this story.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
This is we're only picking our murders from these decks.
Oh my god, that's this week. It's weather only from
the nineties and before.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Is been done.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
Okay, mine, I have one Clifford Olson who looks like
a real fucking piece of work.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Look at him. Blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Okay, that's a dramatic painting.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Let's see here.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
So November nineteen eighty, a twelve year old British Columbia
girl disappeared. Her mutilated body was found a month later.
In eighty one, a thirteen year old girl fanished, followed
by a sixteen year old boy. A week later, the
boy was found dead, his skull crushed. And May, a
sixteen year old girl disappeared, and then in June a
thirteen year girl, and then in July.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Jesus, I'm doing him for my next number murder. No spoilers, no.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, are you reading till the end? Fuck?

Speaker 1 (09:15):
That's good, Stephen.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
And these are amazing cases. These are like treasures that
I will treasure forever, and we're going to start trading them.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
I've never I've never heard of half of these people.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Jack the Stripper, I'm yeah, Jackie Stripper.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Uh in fifty nine eight, I'm gonna I'm going to
rephrase this has sex worker Nice was.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Strangled and clad only in her slip was found near
their Thames Thames, Thames.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Shit, it's one of those ones. The only reason it's not.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
It's one of those famous ones that I should I've
been to and I should fucking know she was found.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Should happened?

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Look Sonny Bean, Remember I did that one.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
This is the I am honestly like glowing right now.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
This is best Christmas ever. See this is the best
Tonic cut ever. Richard Cottingham. Wait a second, I'm June.
What what Richard Cottingham is the one I just did
on the last episode.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
And then he walks through the door You got out
of jail already? Oh my god, you did. I'm going
to open all of these.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
This painting makes him look way better than he actually
looks in real life.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
What do we have a hole?

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Okay, what if the next the Minnesode is just us
opening these and reading them to each other. That's a
great idea. Let's absolutely do that for real. But these
are amazing cases.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Due it's happening.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
And also, look at how hot this guy is.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Who's that? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
He's kind of like Mike Jaggery but younger tune in
to the next minnesot Yeah so the Minnesota? Yeah, holy shit,
that's exciting your fucking angel? What's even what? Oh?

Speaker 4 (10:51):
I was going to say. They were very controversial at
the time because they were like people were obsessed with them.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
And I remember remember they had those the playing cards
of cold cases that they would give to inmates in
the in prison so that they would like be playing
with these cards and fuck men and they like read
about the victim and be like this fucking dude I
was in prison with has admitted to this, and like there,
I think there are not a lot but a couple
cases that got solved because of that.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
That's a brilliant idea. Yeah, I do remember though when
these came out, it was like how dare you? Was
the kind of overall it was like so sick with
like the similar podcasts, We are the how dare you
podcast of today, but for different reasons.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
Where the where the our and our podcast comes with
a stick of shitty gum.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
That's right, our podcast listening to it is the same
thing as eating old cowdery, pink, flaky, hard to chew
a baseball card gum.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
Remember when you would just like eat it out of
not spite, but just like I bought this, Yeah it's
the thing I pick pack. Yeah, Vince by the wrestling
ones a lot like the old school wrestling ones too,
And yeah, I think he burns the gum, burns it.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
I don't smokes it. What if he just was like
addicted to Oh my god, vintage gum. The fumes of
vintage gum that sounds like the new Like what like
what parents get told like they're the junior high kids
are into Now.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
You see old gum in your kid's room on the they're.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
They're smoking it. I would just like to say really
quick that at that show, we had so many great people.
It was crazy and we got to say so many
awesome listeners which was really fun. And you got to
talk to the doormen at the end, which they loved
your story. Well, I don't know if you loved it

(12:44):
as much as it was, Like, let me give you
some more information just on behalf of all dormants.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, so my story last week was about in New York,
the doorman at this spar killed this girl spoiler alert if.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
You haven't listened.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
And so the door on the way out, the dormant
who were not before at the show, and he was
really nice and cool, was like hey and like called
me over and I was like fuck, Like, oh, he's
gonna be like that was my brother or like something,
but instead he was like I remember when that happened.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
And I didn't know the guy, but you know, I was.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
I was a dormant at the time, and it really
fucked with a lot of us because it changed a
lot of rules and you know, blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
And I was like, I'm so sorry, I dormant. I not.
He was like, we don't. We don't call ourselves bouncers.
We call ourselves dormant.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
And I was just like, I fucking trust you guys,
and like that's who It was very like sorry, but.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
He was very cool.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
That's funny because when I walked up, it seemed like
you guys were besties.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Oh no, because he was so kind and sweet.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
I forgot at the bell House, we have to give
a yes say they stayed late to like let us
talk to all the people who stuck around, and they
were really cool, like moving the line along.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
They didn't have to do that. They were No, they
were great. The whole staff was amazing.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
The whole staff was great. Thank you Andrew for booking us.
This was our little, our own booking long ago where
we thought this would be fun and they were right.
Oh yeah. I would just like to say my friend
thanks to my friend Carrie who came to see me
and he literally yelled hey over like five people and
then walked away because he didn't want to have to

(14:14):
wait in line.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
I met him. He was nice.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yes, And same with my friend Colin, who apparently just
sent me a message saying yeah, I wasn't gonna wait around.
And then my friend David Knowles, who you did meet,
who I've known since we were twelve years old. We
met in sixth grade. I went to the freshman winter
formal with him. He waited in line and he was
the second to last person in line, and when the
like third to last person walked away, I go.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
The fuck are you do? I'm gonna see you after
It was like.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
He waited once. I probably thought everyone knew you. Yes,
I was like, we're trying to say hi in an
organized It was so nice. We again got a lot
of fucking amazing presence. I got some of I just
keep getting the best cat toys. Yeah, ever, like that's
the whole that's my scheme for this podcast is to
get free cat toys. We got a cat toys and

(15:05):
what was in that other bag in a bigger bag?

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Makeup?

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yes, oh that makeup.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
I also want to so we need to. If you
go to our Instagram, it's my favorite murderer. I post
a lot of like the photos and stuff of what
people gave us and shout outs, and so one thing
we got that I just need to fucking I got
in the mail and started opening it and I was like,
can't open this. I'm gonna cry without Karen. So this person,
this this girl named Mollie has this website called the

(15:32):
urbansmith dot com and she makes this like incredible jewelry
and metalworking and like these gorgeous things. And she made
us these necklaces that are so beautiful and delicate that
they stay sexy on them.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, therelaces.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
And then she made me these two little charms that
look like if Elvis Remimi ever let me in my
fucking life put a collar on them without murdering me,
that would you put these on it?

Speaker 1 (15:58):
And it's just these.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Little beautiful monogram things that say Elvis and maybe that
I'm gonna wear as a neck like.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
They're so beautiful.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, they're really nice. So the Urban I just wanted
to give a shout out to whoever gave us the
color poplippy sticks. Yeah, color Pop brand. We got eyeshadow
and we got lipstick, but this lippy sticks color Pop
lippy sticks in the color poison. I think they wrote
and said, I hope this is the color that you
can use because I've talked so much about she knows
you lipstick. It's it's so perfect because it's a really

(16:26):
good color, but it also stays on. It's like a stain.
God bless am Mary. And we're not and we don't,
so yeah, don't worry about it. Yeah, and so we
always will. On my favorite murder Facebook page, there were
two meetups that I got to look at this morning,
one for Portland, Oregon, one from Austin, and they were
so cute. And the thing that kills me is how

(16:47):
much crafting people pick they do?

Speaker 1 (16:51):
I mean, is that the one that did the serial
killer drawings?

Speaker 2 (16:54):
That was I'm gonna have to look which one did
the drawing. Let's not have it on the shape, sorry,
wrote it on this piece of paper right.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Here did the drawing?

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Oh, Partland, they did like coloring books serial killers? I
love it. And on the Austin meetup they had all
kinds of crass, but my favorite was they had name
tags that said my favorite murder is and then they
wrote who their favorite murderer is on the bottom. So
one lady is like smiling, but it just says Albert Fish.

(17:27):
I love the idea that he's your favorite.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
That's such a great idea because then you can come
up to someone and be like, oh.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
My god, I know a lot about that one too,
and I to talk about it like and then it's
not awkward like at parties. That's the whole point, dude.
Everyone's doing it, dude, guys.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Oh I saw a thing on our Twitter mentioning this,
and in next year, look at my murder.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
I held up my papers.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
And the girl I need you to know that I
am so blind. So you could have been holding up
one large capital A and I would have been like,
is it a building? I was looking because it all
those black lines that look like it's redacted.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
I know, no it's not. I couldn't.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
I couldn't figure out my I bought a new computer
and I couldn't figure out how format.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Shit on my fucking So that's like old highlighting or something. Yeah,
so it's like it's like the out the outer color
is black and.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Then you know, gotcha.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
So in twenty seventeen, Amazon is going to be posting
with updates the old Unsolved Mysteries. Oh that's right, dude.
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
The last time I saw one of those was a
while ago when I was high.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
It was a while ago because I don't get high anymore,
but there was. The re enactments are so gorgeous. I
remember very distinctly. And this is like in two thousand
and two when I saw this. One of the react
one of the episodes was about like ghosts, and the
way they showed that there was a ghost haunting this
house is that in the kitchen, this fucking loaf of
bread started levitating.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Oh yeah, and you could see.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
The strings hold up the loaf of bread and it
was doing this like woo.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
It was so stupid. Yes, So I'm really excited about it.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
It's going to be so good. What have we been
doing without it our lives? I mean, because what are
they going to update it?

Speaker 3 (19:04):
I think they're at the end when I love this,
gonna say, like, update from twenty sixteen, because that's like.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
The magic of the whole. It's almost like the blooper
reel at the end of a good movie. Yeah, the
updates at the end of Unsold Mysteries are the most
satisfying thing in the world.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
It's the same thing with the show intervention, where they're like,
it's like this beautiful ending of like and I just
feel so centered now, and then it's like she fucking relaughs.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
She totally the bottom of it.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
She disappeared, and she's now living at home again. You're like, oh, man.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
But she's sober.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
But she's on the couch. It's hard, which is wor No,
please get sober, and please get sober. I don't have
none of our business.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
As I take a big old gulp of.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Wine, I think that's all of our business.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
No, I'm live. Show shit, there's some drama going on.
We're not going to talk about it. We're gonna say.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
That we have no control over you have tickets or
shows or scalting.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
I mean, we're really excited. They know that we're gonna
there's gonna be more. If we're not going to your city,
it's because we're saving it. We're saving the best for lass.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
It's because we don't choose where to go. That's right.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
I'm not gonna say the one state I refuse to
go to, I wouldn't. I'm not going to please don't
you great, You'll know when we've gone to fifty fifty fifty,
how many are there? Are there fifty two?

Speaker 1 (20:27):
No, that's cards in a deck, cards in a murder deck.
Got back to the cards.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
But oh my favorite murder dot com slash Live is
just how you see the places.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
We're going and yeah, check on their links.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
It'll give you pre sale codes all that business. And
thanks to Kelly for work doing that for us.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Kelly Dwyer amazing photographer.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Motherfucking mother of baby maybe.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Baby maybe, oh my god, maybe baby bear.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
And Matt Dwyer well hilarious comedian.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
I saw them last night.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Does he have a podcast?

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Sorry sorry, that.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Has one called after Birth? Yeah, so it's after birth.
I mean he know, he was like a fucking like
big timey comic with all the big time he's in
Chicago way back when and did a bunch of shit
with him. So he has a lot of those people
on the podcast talking about what it's like to have
a kid.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
It's great and he's so funny. So it's after Birth.
It's on Faral.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
He's hilarious, he's so funny.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
We're assholes. Okay, no we're not. We're just fucking sorry.
Matt Matt's that's a dick. Such a dick though, like
I'm not even no, it's his fault.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
What oh uh, March Corner my Favorite Murder Shirts dot Com?

Speaker 1 (21:41):
I head, go ahead, what do you want to talk about?

Speaker 2 (21:43):
I guess I think I just had an idea.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Let's harp.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
What about merch of baseball hats with just hats with
just a single face of a murderer on it? Like
the drawlering or like a fucking sketch would have to
be a drawing drawering. Don't nobody steal this. I swear
to fucking god, I see this on if I see
this on fucking Etsy.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
This this means we have tonight Sunday. We have till Thursday
to fucking make this goddamn happen.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
Stephen, mute it, Steven, Steven.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Cats All and get on this. Please, wouldn't you wear
just so that's a great idea.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Because write a black hat and then just Albert Fish's
face on it.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
If it was what I'm talking about, What if it
was one of those beanies that you pull over your
face and it has the.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Eye in the mouth. Those are called bottaclava.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
It just said my favorite murder is and you just
pull it and it's just like, this is intellectual copyright property.
We own this, own it, and we can prove it
in a court of law. Don't you steal the balaclava?
Idea will come what's it called balaclava? The thing that
you pull over that like bank rubbers use.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
That's I didn't know that's what it was called.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah, we will come to every fifty fucking state and
fucking track.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
You down the one, the one that I refuse to.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
It's main. It's just kidding, it's not, it's not it's
it's no way, man. They got fucking lobsters anyway, that's lobsters.
I actually love Maine and I've wanted to go there
since I was a kid because I used to read
these books called Meg. I think it was called Meg
of Maine, and we're going I think.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
That was what it was called.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
I would go to fucking Maine so hard. Yeah, let's
just add a weird tour. Let's have a weird tour
called We're just.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Like we do what we want?

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, called we do what we want.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
There's not enough people to fill whatever fucking veg and
nobody cares.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
They don't fucking like you. They're just trying to get
make a fucking living.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
We're gonna go to Maine, We're gonna go to a
night in New York. We're gonna go to Montreal, where
they don't like anything. We're gonna go to down to.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Way in California, which is the worst thing that ever
happened in my fucking life.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
If it wouldn't be amazing to go to Irvine and
not sell any tickets.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
It's amazing.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Just be like, it's just all you know, every girl
who made fun of me and elementary school gets in
for free.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, and they and they get up front.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Seeking extend talk to each other. That'd be god. This
is turned into like an Albert Brooks movie.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
We an Albert Fish movie. Oh my god, Albert Fish Productions. Uh,
that's the best name for a production company.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
And it's just a cartoon of him with all those
pins inside of him. Oh my god, he's girls. All right,
do we have to do the murder? This is so fun?
There are those who say we do have to do it.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
Last time you went first.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Okay, you pointed at me and then moved your finger
towards your souse.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
I was just kind of ready to get with whatever
you said.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
I do love that. In the live episode.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
At the at the venue, we were like, how to
ask the audience who went first last time?

Speaker 1 (24:43):
And a bunch of like care Georgia, like they knew,
I know. It's so sweet.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's uh because they know we don't know anything.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
That was so fun. That's so fun. They're also fucking
I can't I'm gonna cry. It was the best. This
is another thing of I can't deal with this being
a thing. It's fun.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Oh, I was just going to say this. A lot
of There were a couple of people who tweeted about
how mean I was to the girl that who I
yelled at because she said she couldn't see and asked
for Patsy to be put down, but she was, Uh,
what you couldn't see was that I was making faces
at her after I yelled at her. That made it funny.
But then also she was in line after the show

(25:24):
and she walked up and said I'm the one you
yelled at, and I go, I'm sorry, and.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
She goes, I loved it, and then she put an
Instagram up of that. If you go to our instagram
and then you you there's a hashtag of my favorite
murder and there's like a bunch of life photos and
she writes one in one of them like she told
me to shut up, and it's just like she was
so sweet and just like, I mean, she had a
moment with you.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
That's right. Also, that's the kind of moment you get
to have with me pretty much. That and nothing else.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
It's like, don't don't need or want more. I can't
give you any And the craziest thing to me is
someone who wasn't there said at one hour and fifteen minutes,
and did I hear Guy Brenham.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Oh we got like seven of those.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
That's that's amazing. And then you did.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Because there's people who are Guy Brandham who is our
friend and he's also a co host of Pop Rocket,
whis a very popular podcast. But also he's a well
known comedian and he has the most distinctive laugh that
makes you want to start laughing. Yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
He's so nice, like this is this is how low
it is in la But he remembered my name when
he met after he met me, and Vince is the
same way too, where it's like he didn't have to
remember our name. Like that's how low it is where
it's like, you remember my name. He's so nice.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
You're just looking for some decency. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
He read How to Do Things with Friends and then
Remember them. He read that book. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
I just coughed and burped at the same time. But
I just want to say I want to delay this
one more minute class act because I have defiance disorder.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Is that a thing?

Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (26:55):
I have it too. Yeah, I don't know what it is.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
It's just that you can't do what people want you.
Oh my god, that it makes sense with both of us.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
I'm learning a lot from you.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Though I have it very bad, I'm learning that it's
okay from you.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
It is.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
I mean, it's fine because everybody has something.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
I once had a fucking soccer coach when I was
like in junior high, hold his fist up to my
face and say you need to stop fucking being defiant.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
And I was like, fuck you, and did you walk
away the hell? Yeah, that's right. He's probably a f
I was just going to say, that's the show I'm
working on right now, is Guy Brandham show? That's the Yeah,
it just makes it's I don't have to be secret
about it because I'm happy that gets to have a show,
and it's going to be on True TV in like

(27:39):
probably spring, called talk Show, the Game Show.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
It's going to be awesome. That reminds me.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
Of from BoJack Horseman of what was it like, celebrities
do they know anything?

Speaker 1 (27:47):
What do they know?

Speaker 3 (27:48):
Let's find out that's guy Brannam deserves a show so much,
so much.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
The guy is.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
He's a fucking lawyer. Literally, what, Yes, he is a
law degree.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, yeah, he's smarter than everybody. Jesus, National fucking treasure
and murdered times. Okay, so remember we were talking about
national parks and how everyone gets murdered in them constantly.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
It's like, what the fuck I have one for you
today that I'd never heard about. And then I you know, okay,
they looked it up. Okay, here's the name of the
fucking state park. It's called Starved Rock State Park. So
immediately you're like, oh.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Shit, can I guess where it is?

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, Wyoming, Illinois, it sounds but you know, they're probably
real close to each other.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Thank you, they're probably did you see them meme someone
made of It's just it's a photo of what like
Wyoming and his.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Heads over the top and whatever state is next to Wyoming.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
That's what you said. I can't pretend. I cannot pretend
we're so smart and certain things, oh.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
And so dumb in most things.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
And yet defiant as fuck.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
So that's why, fuck you, that's why we're still not
starting Murder Murder TV.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Goddamn it.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
Okay, start Rock State Park. It's a state park. It's
one hundred miles outside of Chicago. The reason it's named
this Okay, So it's a rock fortress on the Illinois River.
A band of and I'm going to say this wrong
and sound like such a fucking asshole, uh, illinis Wick
Indians lived there originally in the seventeen and then in

(29:25):
the seventeenth century they're besieged by a bunch of fucking assholes.
They like kind of lock them in, and so the
people who didn't die by trying to escape the Indians
were died from starving.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
So fuck yeah, dude, okay, yeah, So do you mind?
Will you show me the name? Do you mind if
I see it? Oh? Yeah, here, go ahead, Okay, I
bet that's some I bet that's right.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Illinis weck Illinois. Illinis weck Illinis, weick Indians.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Or aliney wick. I mean that's one of the other
I have no idea. I'm just giving options.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Now, you're probably right.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
This is from our drug Kissed Mind Now Drunk History episode,
and we did on Lewis and Clark. She called them Indians.
So anything anything I can do is better than that.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
That's right, you know. And someone got a tattoo that
just says Indrians.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
That's so funny.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
People are crazy, Okay. So on March fourteenth, nineteen sixty,
these three suburban housewives who are from a little bit
outside of this area.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
They're in Riverside.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Three suburban housewives go to Starbrock State Park for a
long weekend.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
They're all just like, let's get the fuck out of here.
One of the women had like convolest her husband through
a heart attack.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
They needed to get the fuck out of town.

Speaker 3 (30:38):
They wanted to go and enjoy the area's hiking trails.
It's apparently gorgeous. They're staying at the Starbrock Lodge. Excuse me,
like burped. So this is Lillian Edding Mildred Linquest. They're
both fifty and Francis Murphy, who's forty seven, the young one.
They're wives of business executives, their mothers have grown children,

(31:03):
and they're prominent in their town for civic involvement and
their friends through the Riverside Presbyterian Church.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
So they're good fucking women.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
You know.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
They're like, we deserve like this is this is their
what's it called when they yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Girl's weekend? Yes, I just had that feeling, right, did
you finish that last sentence that they're all gonna die? Well? Yeah,
it was the And you know what that feeling feels
like to me, and I remember what we're doing. It
feels like when the dentist puts the lead blanket over
you when you get your X rays taken. So it's
just like oh yeah, and you're like this lead thing

(31:40):
isn't going to do anything too. It's like that lead
thing where they're like this is probably is gonna maybe yeah,
but anyway.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, that's it. This is the lead blanket of sadness. Yeah.
They check into the lodge, they put.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Their luggage in their rooms, and then they have lunch
at the lodges like beautiful restaurant, and then they're like,
we're going to go for a hike, like post lunch, hike. Okay, Well,
that evening, Lillian's husband is supposed to hear from his wife,
and so he doesn't, and he calls the staff and
the staff is like, well, no, we saw them, but
they're not in the room right now.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
They'll call you tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
The next day he calls again and the staff again
says like, oh, no, you know, we saw them at
lunch and they're here.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
They're just probably out.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
And then the next day there's a snow a crazy
fucking snowstorm, and so this dude Lilian's husband named George
is like, go into my fucking wife's room and see
if she's there.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
They check the rooms, their.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
Luggage is all packed, their car is still in the
same place, like they clearly hadn't been there in two days.
So George calls law enforcement and volunteers come out and
they start a search party. And at the time this
local newspaper reporter hears about it. He fucking ska daddles
over there and he drives into the park and he

(32:56):
comes across some kids near a ravine who are shouting,
and it turns out these like local camp had been
hiking and these like teenage boys found bodies on one
of the nearby trails, which is.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Like, dude, a few poor kids, So what's what's found?

Speaker 3 (33:16):
And the fucking newspaper guy goes up there scoop of
the fucking century and it was called the crime of
the Century for a while. He finds the mutilated bodies
of Lillian, Mildred and Frances. They're laying side by side,
partially covered with snow. They're on their backs under the
ledge of a small cave, and their lower clothing had
been torn away and their legs were spread apart, which

(33:38):
we know is a fucking sadistic as fuck way to
leave someone. They had all been beaten viciously in their
on their heads, and two were tied together with heavy twine.
They were covered in blood and their legs were blackened
with bruises.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Poor fings.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
So because this had happened two days earlier and then
there was a snowstorm, there were several inches of snow
covering the whole area, which means all this fucking evidence
they could have had was lost. But they did some
digging and they found a ton of blood beneath the snow,
and they found a frozen tree limb that was streaked
with blood.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
And they thought that was the murder weapon.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
And then also a trail of blood led from a
different area into where the women's body were found, so
they thought that the bodies had been dragged and positioned
under the sledge. The corner said the women had obviously
been obviously been quote molested, but they couldn't they couldn't
find any evidence of rape because it had been so
long and it had been snowing. Let's see, and it

(34:42):
seems at the time of death was pretty shortly after
they had left the lodge after lunch, and there was
no motive for the murders because the women had left
all their money and jewelry in their room, and so
maybe the killer got mad when he found out that
there was nothing on them but the strap to the camera.
They brought a camera and binoculars, and the strap to
the camera was broken, and there was photos of them

(35:06):
like sightseeing on the camera which you can see online.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Oh, so the strap was broken, but the camera is
still there. Yes, Okay, So it wasn't robbery.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
No, yeah, or maybe it was attempted and the women
fought back something. So there were no suspects for eight
months and so the county state attorney whose name was
Harold No Harland, Warren Harland.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
That's a fucking amazing name.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
Us his own money and purchases a microscope's a microscope
and begins like doing this crazy study of all the evidence.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Sorry I missed what year this was, Oh, nineteen sixty,
Oh okay. He buys. He buys his own microscope, and
also everyone's name is something that's old fashioned.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
It's like, these are all older people in nineteen sixties,
so it got no, they're all like, you know, from
the thirties or whatever, exactly.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
So he buys his own microscope. He begins studying the evidence,
and he's like, the twine is.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Gonna fucking tell me something. Where is this twine from?

Speaker 3 (36:07):
And he finds that there's two kinds of twine, a
twenty fly cord and a twelve ply cord, and he
starts at the first place he can think of, which
is at the lodge, and he brings him to the
manager of the cord and he's like, does this look
familiar to you? And it turns out the manager's like,
I think those were from the restaurant. And they go
back into the fucking area where the food is kept

(36:29):
in the fucking pantry, and there's the fucking twine, same
fucking twine, So.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
They don't have to go far to find who ever
did that.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
They do not, so they had originally Warren had originally
thought that the killer either worked at or had access
to the lodge. But all the lodge employees have been
given polygraph tests and they all passed. But he calls
them back for another round of testing, and that is
when a former dishwasher named Chester otto Wager.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Was brought in. Like that name combination because he has
a well, yeah, they always name the middle name, but
chester Chester's not a good We's not a good name.
W E g er Wiger, chester Wigger. You don't name
your child in a name that has the same two
letters at the end on both names. Chester Wiger. Oh,
is that a thing? It's my personal thing. I see that, No,

(37:18):
I get that. I've never thought about that.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
So he's a former park employee and he had quit recently,
like over the summer to go paint houses with his father.
But while he was working there, he served meals to
the police and reporters while they were like looking up
for evidence and shit. So they give him a light
detector test and the tester who's like this really they

(37:43):
brought in like a really good tester. They said his
face turned white after during the testing, Chester walks away
and the tester said, that's your man.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Oh yeah, So.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Wegger is twenty one. He's a small man. He has
a wife and two young children. He had resigned that summer,
and lodge employees reported seeing scratches on his face, but
he had passed several light detector tests already. I mean,
because ultimately we know that light detector tests ready, they're
fifty to fifty, right, they're only right half the time. Yeah,

(38:17):
now we know this.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
And there's a reason they're inadmissible in court is because
they're they're.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Not they they're based on your heart rate. And if
you are like a sociopath or something, you won't have
a reaction to You won't be nervous to tell a lie,
you won't care.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
And if you truly believe what you thought you saw,
So like, if it's a witness who's like, I fucking
saw a man in a red jacket, I know I did,
And if they believe that, they're going to not have
been being deceitful, right, even if it's not.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
True, they won't have the physical reaction. Yet I think
someday that I think someday witness testimony is going to
be just like light detector tests, where it's like this
isn't admissible because everyone's a little bit liable. Yeah, we're
all a little wrong. I think that's actually a good
thing to remember. Yeah. I always think I remember things always,
and I'm positive, positive, yeah, and then and then I'm wrong.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
Well, it's the same thing of like how people say,
like there's three sides to every story, your side, their side,
and the truth. And it's like, you know, the argument
that you and I got into sounds this way from
me and sounds that way from you, and you have
to be like, well, somewhere in the middle is really
what happened.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
And you can't you have to know that you don't know.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
Yeah, the other person's this is a psychology podcast.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
It's true though, so smart, I know, like, how do
we even but not about states about feelings pardoning.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
I just thought it'd be perfect. I was gonna make
that one quiet, but I figured I'm putting.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
My jacket back. You're cold.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
It's so loud.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
I know this is banks not good for audios.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Steven, have a blanket. There's a blanket right there. I
barely I pean on it once. Please are you cold? Yes?

Speaker 3 (39:55):
Caring behind you is a thermostat please form not keen
on right there? But that they that looks like a
fire hazard from the nineteen fifties. Yeah, click that little
thing up.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
It was worth it.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Come boom click that up. No, No, to the left, the
little switch.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Up there we go to see the fire and the
wall right there. It's I need to move.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
This is an old.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
This is the night my favorite murder got lit on fire.
All right, okay, okay, th blah. So they're like it's
totally him, and then he was like, hey, I have
I just happened to have this buckskin jacket, and I
want to admit that it's covered in quote dark stains

(40:40):
and it later turned out to be human blood on
this jacket.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
But I don't even just bringing this up.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
Yeah, I don't know if that's totally you know how
it happened. But somehow they found a buckskin jacket that
was covered in dark stains that happened to be human blood.
But in nineteen sixty it could not be typed or
matched to a specific victim, which is like, come on,
you guys, get it to fucking gether.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
They're like, we can't. It's only nineteen sixty. It's just bloodstains.
At this point. We just want to go to the moon.
That's all we care about.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
The same movies, which is actually similar. Her parents failed us.
So he does further polygraph tests again he's fucked, and
he fails them all. So they investigators began checking into
similar cases in the area, and they come across a

(41:27):
reported rape and robbery that had taken place a mile
from Starved Rock in nineteen fifty nine.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
The year before.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
A seventeen year old girl had been sexually assaulted and
she had been bound with twine, similarly to the Starved
Rock women. Okay, and then I you know, in all
my like weird digging of like old articles and shit,
the one place I found in one place this information.

(41:54):
The attack had been reported by two teenagers, a boy
and a girl. The boy said they had been robbed
while the girl was sexually assaulted. They told the cops
about it, and the officers didn't believe their story, and
they sent the couple away with a cursory investigation.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Saying that they thought the story was made up, that
they were robbed, that they were robbed and she was
fucking sexually assaulted. They were like, you little lying seventeen
year olds.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
Get the hunk out of here, you know what I mean, Like,
why would you fucking make that up? Let's get attention.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, I mean that's what That's what they used to
say stuff like that back then.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Right, Yeah, so maybe they had shouldn't pay attention to that. Anyways.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
So the victim, the female victim, has brought a stack
of mugshots.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
She's sorting through them and when.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
She sees the photo of Chester, she starts to scream,
which is so chilling. Yeah, So they get a restaurant
for him on the rape because they can't prove the
murders yet, so they get him off the streets and
then they have him in custody. They start questioning him
about the rape, and then they press them about them murders,
and they keep it in, keep him in the interrogation

(43:02):
in the interrogation room for hours.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
At two a m.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
He finally asked to see his family and then he confesses.
But before that, he's like, really quick though, again, I
have a buckskin jacket. I just wanted you guys to
know it's the blood from the buck that was fucking
killed for this jacket. I'm just going to bring this

(43:27):
up real quick because I want it's pretty cool jacket. Yeah, Like,
I just want you guys to like admire my jacket. Okay, anyway,
I'll go back to my confession.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
So he confesses. He says that he got scared.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
He tried to grab the women's pocketbooks and they fought
him and he hit them, and the pocket book turned
out to be the camera that was around her neck.
He thought it was like a pocketbook, So he gives
him that that interesting detail. Then he says they were like,
why did you drag the women into this ledge, into

(44:04):
this cave, And he says it's because he had spotted
a small airplane flying low over the park and he
was afraid it was a state police plane, so he
moved the body so that they could not be seen.
And he had said it was a red and white plane.
So a few days later, the cops and the detectives
go to the airplane base and look at the log books,

(44:25):
and there's a fucking plane flying over that fucking park
at the exact moment that was red and white.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Whoa, that's some shit that only he could have known. Yes, right,
and he told on himself he can passed. Yeah, he confessed, okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
But then right after his first meeting with his quarter
point attorney, he changes the story and says that he
was innocent of all charges, that the investigators had coerced
him into confessing, and that they fucking held a gun
to his head and made him sign every single one
of the papers.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
I mean, I can see that too, you, I mean
back then.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
He said, I know, he was so scared that he
signed the papers away, saying they had fed him the
information about the airplane and he wasn't even in the
park at the time of the killings. He later said,
the police at the park saw me every day and
I passed every test they gave me. But the months
went by and they wanted a conviction, so they beat
me into signing it. I wasn't even I wasn't ever

(45:21):
at the park when it happened.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
I was done wrong.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Except for when you rape that girl that time.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
Just yeah, okay, but yeah, yes, however, okay, So he's
brought to trial in nineteen sixty one, they seek the
death penalty. A year later, the jury finds him guilty
for one of the murders they only tried him for,
which is weird.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Maybe they thought they couldn't get him on all three. Well
it's all the same evidence, you know what I mean.
And then they ended up like not bringing him up
on chargers for the rape too. So like this poor
girl who was like you first.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Thought I was fucking lying, and now you're not even
going to fucking try him for this shit.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Wow, poor fucking girl.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
But if he goes down for those at least something
on the other ones, then he's in jail forever. Maybe
they had to Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Okay, but there's the problem with that.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
Oh so he sentenced to a term of life in prison,
and then the jurors get dismissed, and the and the
reporters asked them if they knew that a life sentence
in Illinois meant that Vigger would be eligible for parole
in a few years. And it turns out that the
mint the like the normal life sentence for murder in Illinois,

(46:31):
it was ten years at the time. What, yeah, I
don't know if it still is, it might still be.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
No, the jurors are like, wait, what the fuck? They
were like, we would have fucking sent him away.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Wait, that's like saying everyone that's going to jail is
seventy or something. Doesn't make no sense.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
Life, A life sentence is the hardest quotes that have
ever been quoted. Life sentence is such bullshit. It makes
you feel and think a certain thing. It's not fucking true.
Seven fucking years.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
It's like.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
You're eligible for parole immediately and you just keep fucking it.
It's not a thing.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
A life sentence is not a thing.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
A life sentence is not a thing. You are full
of shit, I am not.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Life sentence is like is a is a can I
just remind you that lawyers listen to this?

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (47:23):
I just would you want me to text guy right now?

Speaker 1 (47:26):
Text guy? Okay? The idea of a life sentence like.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
This is my favorite. We're going it's something we're going,
we're going outside the podcast. It's like we're doing an
outside line a life sent I want to call a
friend a lawyer. I'm doing it.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
A life sentence means life sentence, but an actuality. In
a majority of states, it really just is it's a sentence,
but it's not an actual what's the word.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
It's not going to give you fifty to seventy five
years like like it would take up a person's life exactly.
You're not actually going to be in prison for your life.
All right, both of you on your phones now, I
just want to fucking point out. I mean, no, I'm
just texting. I'm texting the outside and I ask you
a question. So we're just going to see if guys,
even Stephen, what did you find.

Speaker 4 (48:13):
I found that it was much more complicated than I
thought it was. I thought life imprisonment was life. And
you know, the first thing was on a message board.
It just said, that's a really good question, what is
life imprisonment in Illinois?

Speaker 1 (48:25):
And oh you didn't get a name.

Speaker 4 (48:27):
I didn't get an answer.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
The whole thing right now, it just says that, okay,
well we know that it changes states to state, right, yes,
so I also said this is Illinois specific, right, So, so.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
I mean the jurors were set like, do you know
that life imprisonment, the life sentence in Illinois means that
he'd be eligible for parole in a few years.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
So that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
You get life in prison and then you're fucking eligible
for parole and and in this case in Illinois, get
parole after ten years.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Oh okay, so that's right.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Well, I mean, is that what you're to tell me
he got parole? No? Oh okay, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
No, blaviti blah. So they said they would have given
the electric chair. Oh shit, blah blah blah. So okay,
let's see.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
The whole prosecution was based on his confession, which predated
Miranda warnings that are required today. Wow, I didn't realize
Miranda warnings for that recent Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
They're based on a guy named Miranda.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Like how John Wayne's real name is Priscilla. No, it
isn't Yeah or Miriam, that's my middle name. It's a
girl named what really mm hmm It's Jewish.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Okay, blah blah blah blah. Okay.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
So then at some point, so he from the moment
he was in prison, is saying he's fucking innocent and
that some woman had a deathbed confession that was never
like corroborated, corroborated, corroborated.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
He's maintained his innocence.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
He's seventy seven and he is the third longest held
inmate in a state prison, having served a life sentence
since nineteen sixty one. He's been requesting paroles since nineteen
seventy two. It's fourteen times that he's been up for parole.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yeah, and he's always.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Saying and if he said that he did it, he
probably would have been paroled because part of getting paroled
is accepting responsibility for your crime.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Yeah, and he fucking refuses to do it.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
DNA tests were requested, but so there was a fucking
hair found in the victim's fists and the bloodstains on
the coat. They were requested testing in two thousand and four,
but the items had not been properly preserved and thus
no longer had held evidentiary value, which seems like bullshit, right, like.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
You can fucking find it in there somewhere.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Well, but it sounds like what they're saying is like
instead of putting it in a ziplock bag, they put
it in one of those sandwich bags that folds over
at the top, where it's like those don't work for sandwiches,
why are they gonna work forever?

Speaker 3 (51:02):
Well? I, you know, I look this this case up
on Facebook to see if anyone was like talking about
it as her hometown murder. And one guy whose nam
I fucking can't remember, was like, uh, this is my
hometown murder. And these items, the jacket and the fucking
branch that had been used to kill him, were brought
to schools to show children.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
No, yeah, and so and like the books ki jacket
comes back. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Like the guy was like, the guy worked for the
Innocent Project, Innocence Project, and he was like the reason
these fucking things couldn't be tested is because one of
the fucking investigators had like one of the pieces of
evidence on his wall as a trophy and he's got
brought Like. The guy was like, my mom remembers these
being brought into school and you could like touch them
and fucking learn about the market.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Get as many little kid fingerprints on there. Yeah, possibly can't.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Pretty smart if that's a fucking tactic.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Yeah, because this was back when yeah, yeah, no one knew.
So it was so recent he well as a less
than a month ago he was up for pearol again. Jesus,
how old is this mother?

Speaker 3 (52:01):
For seventy seven he was up for parole again, and
he got denied, and one of the only living jurors
left Nancy Porter, who's ninety two, said that she now
finds the confession implausibles because she thought that Wager, who
was unarmed, who was only five 't eight, could have
been overpowered by the three women, which I think is
such bullshit.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
That's not how fucking crimes work.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
Like you intimidate these three, you know, quiet women who
go along with what you're telling them to do, and
intimidate them like it doesn't matter how big you are.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
No, no, no, no, that's like that's like acting like
every crime situation is the same, and yeah, this person
is a criminal. He could have lured them to a spot,
cracked one of them on the head, scared the shit
out of the other two, Like.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
He tied two of them together, So you're overpowering two
of them. The weather woman's not going to leave. I mean,
it's not like they're going to fucking ninja him, like,
you know, overpower him.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
And that's the same thing with the Richard Speck case
where he went into They couldn't understand how he right
so many women in this room and he he kept
them all in that room and then took them out
one by one an And it's like, because it's a
psychological thing.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
He scared the shit out of them.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
He scared them, and he kept saying, probably if you
go along with what I'm trying to do, I'll let
you go. I'll let you go in so that, you know,
especially back then when you got to be fucking polite
to everyone, you go along with it, hoping.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
You just want this situation to end. Yeah, I mean that. Yeah,
that's crazy. Yeah, okay, so silver lining. So the crime
lab is now one of the finest in the state
because of the shoddy work from the Starbarrock case. And
someone said the state crime lab was less equipped than

(53:42):
a high school chemistry lab at the time.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
And this is from Steve Stout. He wrote a book
called the star Rock Murders. This crime is more important
than not because it changed the system of criminal investigation
in Illinois. And then I went on read it and
there was a guy who said there was a guy
named or a woman named bed Hand three.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
I know, I don't know what's going on with him.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
You know she's a woman because she says my well
maybe not, she says my husband, And I fucking.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Assume oh right, right, like hey, like I mean, not trying.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
To come on everybody she says, there's a huge like.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
There was a bad pan, a bedpan one and a
bedpan two already.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Taken the other two. No, this is the third best bedpan.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Yeah, this is a huge There's a huge number of
people from this town in my surrounding area that I think.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
He's he was a scapegoat.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Her ex's husband's grandfather was a judge during the time,
though not during this trial, and told me that there
was no way in helly did the crime. The bodies,
from what I remember reading, had animal slash dog bites
that were just left unexplained. Theories include that a business
owner who was from another nearby town who had a
very had very large, well trained dogs was a possibility
because he inexplictedly immigrated back to his home country right

(54:54):
after the murders, leaving his entire family behind. Another theory
is that the women's wealthy Chicago business and husband's paid
someone to have them killed in the park for various
nefarious reasons. The only real consensus is that pretty much
no one at the time or years later believed it
was weger.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Uh. I don't think it's the husband having them killed
because the way they're mutilated and left with their legs open,
and if he if Weger was a rapist and was
the rapist that raped that girl, it would be more
in line with a person who has uh is a
rapist has this? She was yeah and basically escalating.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
I don't disagree with the fact that it sounds like
if if I didn't know any of the suspects, I
would think it was at least two people.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Yeah, you know, yeah, but who knows. You get you
crack somebody over the head with a stick when you're
and you're you're with your two friends, somebody gets cracked
over the head and then you're like and suddenly there's
like some wild man that's like sit down and I
have to tie you up, and I'm oh, for sure
it's over.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
He probably did it, But there's yeah, he probably did it.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
But the it is interesting that whole thing of like
you can't really base it on what the polygraph says,
and you can and you do have to be suspect.
Now what we know these days of how police interrogations
used to go. We've all seen LA Confidential.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
It's a pity that DNA can't figure this one out.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Yeah, that's amazing. That's such a good story. Yeah, starve
rock murders and also such a creepy name, Starve rock.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Murders, Oh for sure. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Is it starved or starving, starved, starved past ten starved
like they did? Yeah, but it can't be. What if
it's the twine.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
From the from the restaurant, and you know, so with
someone else who worked there, it probably.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Wasn't could have been someone else. Really, I mean, you're
still a live when he's trying to get out and
it's this it's the line cook.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Yeah, it's always a line cook. It's not the dishwasher.
It's always a sous chef. He just wants to be
the head chef.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
He's got a fun mustache and you're like, I love
that guy.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
And he's like, I'm so sick of chopping celery. Fucking
take your mere pwand shove it. Oh, put a chivee
on it.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
So mine this week is a worrisome because it's the
case that I brought up the week before last and
I didn't really know anything about it, but I just
wanted to cite it to you, and it was this
sherry peppini case. Yes, so it's an amazing thing because

(57:37):
I went into such a like black hole on the
internet today that I had that thing happen where I
was reading. It was light outside when I was reading,
and the next thing I knew, it was pitch black
in my house.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Turn yet because you didn't get up to turn on
the light thong.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Exactly, and I hadn't really looked around, so that when
I looked up, it was like I was sitting in
a pitch black room.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
It was kind of scared.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
That's a really depressed It's like one of my depression triggers.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Yes, that's where you.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Where you let just the light fade away. I jumped
up and turned a lamp on. I have dogs. It
wasn't too bad, but like.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
If anyone had come, like looked through the window and
seen what you were looking like reading about it, I'm
not killing this girl.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Yeah, she's crazy, she's going to kill me. But here's
because the reason that it was, you know, hours and
hours of reading and all these different websites, is because
this case goes has so many levels and it is crazy.
Like when I first started talking to you about it,
I just wanted to kind of be like, it's that

(58:36):
crazy case and it's got some twists and turned but
because I didn't really know specifics, I kind of was like,
just gave up. Well.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
I love that I really don't know. I know that
everyone's talking about it. You mentioned it to me. I
love that you're filling me in on every like I
have nothing. I just want to fucking hear this. I'm excited,
all right, So.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
I'll give you the I'll give you the overview. But essentially,
what we're talking about here in one way, and this
is what people are being so careful about it because
there's no proof that it's anything but a woman who
has been victimized. And what I really like about that
is that there are people who are being so fastidious
as to make sure that no one is accusing a

(59:14):
victim of a crime of doing anything. That being said,
there is insane amounts of evidence that something is wrong
with this case.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
It's really suspicious.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
It's very suspicious, and it's not it's just interesting. So
we will talk about facts, and I'll just try to
be very clear about what facts are as opposed to
hearsay or anything, and just try to remind you every
seven minutes that we're talking about a victim and that
this isn't you know in nowhere we're trying to give

(59:49):
an opinion about this. I just find this case to
be incredibly fascinating. So here's what we know. It's a
woman named Sherry Peppini, who is a thirty four year
old married mother of two who lives in Redding, California.
Disappeared while she was jogging on November two, and she
reappeared three weeks later on the side of Highway five

(01:00:11):
before dawn on Thanksgiving Day, one hundred and fifty miles
away from where she was taken. She was beaten, she
was bloody, and her hands were chained behind her back.
Fuck yeah. She told police that she had been kidnapped
by two Hispanic women in a van who tortured and
starved her. Now so, after she was found, her husband, Keith,

(01:00:37):
gave interviews to both Good Morning America and twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Twenty Wait, okay, already questions. She said that the entirety
of her captive, her being captured was by two Hispanic women.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Yes, the entirety of it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Yep, let's just go with the facts on On those interviews,
Keith hit, her husband, said his wife's captors two Latina women.
Kept their faces covered, spoke Spanish with the majority of
the time. They beat her, They broke her nose, they
cut her hair, they starved her. He claimed that Sherry

(01:01:11):
had lost fifteen percent of her body weight and that
the captors quote unquote branded her, which led to speculation
that the kidnapping was part of a sex trafficking operation.
So after she was found, a woman saw her again
at four am on the side of the road called
nine one one. She gets taken to the hospital and

(01:01:35):
her injuries include bruises, a broken nose, burns, and starvation,
but she was discharged several hours later. She tells police
that she was held captive, and she describes the two
latinas as one being old, one being young, One had
curly hair, one had straight hair, one had thin eyebrows,

(01:01:57):
one had thick eyebrows. Once she was released from the hospital,
she and her family left Redding, the town that she
lives in, for an undisclosed location to avoid media attention,
and Sherry herself has not been seen by the media
since her.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Disappearance shot on Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Yeah, since like, she's basically not been seen by the
media at all, So they've seen the pictures of her
which are from her wedding day, which are seven years prior.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
So she hasn't given any interviews or it hasn't been seen.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
No, just her husband. So her husband went on twenty
twenty and Good Morning America, and he told the whole
story for her, and which makes sense for a victim
who is traumatized and needs to be away from everything.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Yeah, it does make sense. But did he need to
do that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Well? True, Like, if that's the case, thence she doesn't
want to be it needs to be away from it. Well,
they and that's what they told people is basically she
got out of the hospital and then they left town
and told everybody that they are doing it to avoid
the media. And then he relatively soon after, goes on

(01:03:07):
both two you know, major national television shows.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Okay, okay, so I'm gonna hold my.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Comments, all right, Yeah, you're like just accrue it and
listen because it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Like so, remember.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
There are actually websites that normally dive right into cases
like this, the kind of Nancy Grace style cases who
will not entertain anything except for that Sherry Peppini is
a victim and anybody saying anything different, that's the like
you can't talk about that, which is a stance. I mean,
it's just like a way to do it. But of

(01:03:44):
course Reddit is not like that because Reddit entertains anything
at all times and you can say what you want.
And so there's Reddit is the place I found a
lot of this information. The Sasta County sheriff actually recently
came out to say he believes Sherry Peppini's story, but

(01:04:07):
he said that in direct conflict with an earlier statement
where the Sheriff's office communications officer said they weren't ruling
anything out. So no one knows if he said that
to fix what somebody that was just basically answering the
phone and talking the Huffington Post said or what. But

(01:04:29):
there hasn't been much movement the the Shasta County. No, no,
none of the police up there have been warning people.
They haven't put out in any kind of APB about
these two Latina women. There haven't been warnings to other
women about being careful or this is what you need
to look for.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
That says a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Yeah, okay, uh so basically it won't go over like
this is the way they the time line problems essentially,
so the day that she went jogging. Like the day
that her husband Keith, realized that she was missing, he
was at work and he came home from work and

(01:05:13):
she wasn't there, and the kids weren't there, and instead
of calling her, he said he because sometimes I think
the reason is I was confused by this, but basically
that sometimes reception is bad up there, which makes sense
because it's like way up north of Sacramento. That he
pinged her phone instead with find my iPhone, so then

(01:05:36):
he realizes where the phone is, and it's a mile
away from their house, where kind of near where their
mailbox is, which is if you've grown up in the country,
it's that thing where like your house is way up
here on some weird, long, dusty road, and your mailboxes
are in a long line with a bunch of other
people's mailboxes down the road, like you go to your
mailbox when you're driving up your driveway exactly right. A
mile seems far to me, but I don't know, okay.

(01:06:00):
And also this is like I was looking at a
map of Redding and there's nothing I mean. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
Also, the like the group that neighborhoods like put mailboxes together,
it has nothing to do with Warrer houses kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Right, exactly, Yeah, because neighborhood neighborhoods don't exist there. It's
like all these houses just kind of like they're probably
ranch style houses spread out. Fuck that man, So I
want neighbors to hear me screamary at night. Yeah. So
he says he called his mother and he I can't remember,

(01:06:34):
but basically it's just this weird thing of why wouldn't
you just call her phone? Yeah, and like okay, so
he basically he pings her phone, finds it. Uh, and
it's at the corner of Sunrise Drive and Old Oregon Trail.
And when he gets there, he immediately takes a picture
of it. It's sitting her phone, of her phone. Uh,

(01:06:57):
it's sitting it's sitting with your Are you just gonna
keep saying that, no, no, no you can't. But I'm
just saying there's a lot of that. Yeah, there's headphones
sitting on top of the phone, on top of them,
very neatly, it says, And he takes a picture of it.
So the police said that it looked staged. They commented
on that early that said it looked staged, but he

(01:07:20):
didn't touch the phoney like whatever. And a lot of
people on these threads were talking about if your significant
other was missing in a way that you really felt
was real, you would grab that phone and start looking
at what are the last calls tell anything?

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
So then he files a missing person's report, and in
all in every way he talks about her, instead of
saying kidnapped or missing, he keeps using the word taken,
Liam Neeson style. Okay, So then they put up five
days after she goes missing, they put up Sherrypeppini dot
com and it's a.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Website five days sorry, go ahead, it's just.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
A website about the whole case. Please help us find her.
She's missing, with her picture and everything else, all the information,
what she's wearing and the whole thing. And ten days
after that, this letter goes up on that website and
it's from an anonymous donor and it says that it
says like, I'm an anonymous donor. I'm offering an undisclosed
reward for Sherry's immediate release. My middleman is Cameron Gamble,

(01:08:26):
who's an international negotiator who also happens to live in
Reading the fuck right, So this is I think this
is the part. Now separate from people saying please protect
a victim who has been victimized. Absolutely, But this is
the part where everyone's like this thing stinks to high
Heaven because when you go on there's a really great

(01:08:51):
article that was on The Daily Beast called like things
you Should Know about the shady private investigator involved in
the Sherry Peppini case, And it's amazing because it's all
about him and how like it's really there's lots of
great information. There's videos that he has on his website,
Cameron Gamble dot com. He's a guy that's trying like

(01:09:14):
he has his organization. It's supposedly a nonprofit profit organization
called Project Taken, and it's about dude, it's about warning
women or like telling women what to do in case
someone tries to kidnap them.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
What the fuck?

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
So all of these things are like just they just
are very suspect. It's just all very a little bit
like a movie and a little bit I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
To coincidental, very coincidental.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
And also in the best case scenario, what this person
did in this anonymous donor that put this letter up
on their website was basically trying to circumvent law enforcement
and say if you have for I will give you
mo money.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Just bring our back, and week the questions asked exactly, they.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
Don't use that phrase, but it's basically saying we don't
have to deal with the police, like, if you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
You can have the money, just bring our back.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
Kisses the police off so much because if that's actually
the case, then other women are in danger and you
have not.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Yeah, you can't do it that way. You've just eliminated
all the suspects because you're being a fucking asshole. Well,
it just it doesn't work that way.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
It doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
And it's like somebody making up a new way to
do it and then going like I'm anonymous, I'm anonymous,
the amount of money is anonymous, please use my middleman. Yeah,
none of those things I think really line up, and
then it goes against law enforcement. Okay, So so basically, then, uh,

(01:10:46):
three weeks you know, since that since she goes missing.
Three weeks pass and on the morning of Thanksgiving, she
spotted at four am next to the highway near Woodland
Sidlely a city called Woodland, try don't remember from living
up there, with her arms chained behind her back. This
woman sees her trying to like she said, it looked

(01:11:07):
like she was trying to like flag her down, like
wave something.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
I don't know how she would do that with her
arms behind her back.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
But the woman calls nine to one one and she's
taking the hospital, so in uh oh. And when the
woman describes her in this nine woman call, she says
she has long blonde hair, so uh oh. After she's

(01:11:36):
found in the family asked for privacy, several family members
grant a Daily Mail interview, which is the British newspaper,
I believe, And someone also sells a picture of her
kids on Thanksgiving to the Daily Mail, and then of
course her husband does both interviews. Do they know who
sold it or is it anonymous? They say family members.

(01:11:57):
There's no one specifically named in her twenty In his
twenty twenty interview, her husband Keith says her signature long
blonde hair had been chopped off, but she was described
as having long hair by the nine to one oneth
Collar and a lot of people bring up like who

(01:12:17):
has signature long blonde signature as to as compared to what, like, dude,
it's not She's not like you know, Gwyneth Paltrow or whatever,
it's she's a mom, And even if it is, it's like,
why didn't the caller describe her as having that?

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
And he said the exacts.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
This guy seems to pick up phrases that sound coerce
or not coarse, likearhearse, thank you, but also just weird,
Like it's that thing where people get a weird feeling.
And that's the thing that like, I what we're now
talking about that are in direct contention with each other
is the weird feeling you have when you think someone's

(01:12:55):
lying versus a victim trying to tell their story.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
And I'm not. Everything I've heard doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
That makes the husband sound suspicious, not her, right, it
sounds like this fucking happened to her, Well, yeah, I
don't think Like nothing makes me think that this that
she isn't actually a legitimate victim.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
So basically, when he gives these interviews, there's experts that
are experts in like whatever reaction or whatever facial facial
reaction recognition or whatever that say his crying is completely fake,
Like he does these things where he bursts out into tears,
but he he makes the noises and his eyes get

(01:13:37):
a little bit red. But there's no actual streaming tears.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
Yeah, that whole fucking study is fascinating to me. I
love that shit.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
Yeah, like micro expressions and stuff like that, like the
way they know people are lying amazing. It's pretty interesting.
But I also think that that's interesting because that happens
on TV shows a lot where people are supposed to
be crying, like in acting. But it's a really hard
thing to do. To fake cry. It's really hard even
if you mean it and want to do it, so
like you can, but we're all used to it where

(01:14:05):
it's like people like I just really you know, and
you make the noise, you can do the voice and everything,
but to get the stuff to come out of your
eyes is really hard to do.

Speaker 3 (01:14:14):
Yeah, but you can still see it, Like I have
a really hard time crying, And there's moments where I'm like,
it's okay to do this thing, but you you're trying
so hard not to, but you can hear it in
the voice.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Well, the key the key of real crying. I learned
this in an acting class. One times. Tell me is
trying not to cry, because that's the real thing people do.
Try not No one ever wants to really cry. Oh,
so sitting and I don't know this man, and who
knows what's really happening. None of us know. Again, I'm
just going to keep saying none of us know what's
really happening. But most of the time, if you're being

(01:14:46):
interviewed and you're talking about something that happened to a person.
And also he'd already gotten his wife back home. Yeah,
so she she hadn't died, and yes she had been
a victim of something terrible. But he was acting like
he was sobbing, but he wasn't actually sobbing, which is
just not a natural for people to do, especially a man,
I'm sorry to say. They have less permission to have emotion.

Speaker 3 (01:15:09):
You do a thing where you're like, sorry, give me
one second, and you rein it back in, and then
you continue to talk and it's like, just give me
a moment, and you think that they're going to cut
it out or something of the.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
We've all seen all of these shows a million times.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
Of the show you know what it's.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
It's they talk and then their lip moves in a
weird way and then the eyes go and the water
is there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
Yeah, and breaks their voice, break embarrassed about it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
And it's a very hard thing to fake.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
They're trying to get a point across and they can't.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
And guess what again, all of this theory there. Okay,
So in his interview for twenty twenty, he calls people
who would doubt Sherry's story subhuman. Okay, he doesn't call
her attackers anything. What. Yeah, that's amazing, but it's He

(01:15:58):
also said when he was on Good Morning of America,
he said, I understand people want the story, pictures proof
that this was not some sort of hoax plan to
get money or fabricate a race war. I do not
see a purpose in addressing each preposterous lie.

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
Yes, brought up race war?

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
He initially he did, No, no, no, this is him
and that's the thing that everybody was saying of, just
like of all those other things. Yes, yes, yes, we
get it. You don't have to address every life. You're right.
What wait, why are we talking about a race war?

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
What the fut?

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
On Good Morning fucking America.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
They should have vetted this shit out of him.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
So, okay, now we're going back to this idea, which
is a real fucking thing that happens in this country.
Sex trafficking. It's horrifying, it really happens. It's still kind
of mysterious. Nobody really knows what it looks like, what
it means. It's very like nobody knows who it happens to,
and it happens to people that don't that it's not

(01:16:56):
why it's not visible.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
Yeah, it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
Yeah, so we're all like it never happens because it
happens to people who are It comes to begin with.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
Yes, that's right, runaway kids. But the thing that that's
true is it usually happens to younger women. This woman
is thirty. Sorry I said it. People who won't miss
the victims or won't be believed when they said that
there's a victim, or it's a runaway you know, people
who are at risk, at risk.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
Yeah, and under something something.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
So. But the other thing is one of her injuries
was reported is that she was burned as if she
it liked, you know, because as if she was branded
for this sex trafficking. But real sex trafficking is the
branding is just a word that they use for they

(01:17:53):
tattoo them. They don't brand them like cattle because.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
They want them to.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
They want to sell these women and they don't want
to ruin their their Okay that no, that's exactly right.
I mean, well, a, they don't want to ruin their bodies,
they don't want to cut their long, beautiful blonde hair.
That's a fucking selling point, exactly. They don't want to
beat them up and break their nose. Those are all
selling points, right, But also the idea that someone wouldn't

(01:18:18):
actually know the insider information that tattoos are how you brand,
not with a brand.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
Like quote branding. It's like branding is a quote.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
Yes, what the so so? So we're just adding up poles,
we're just mentioning things or the reason people.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Are suspicious, got it?

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Uh? So the other now we turned to her social media.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
Okay, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
She had a wedding blog on which she claimed that
she had never lived with a man, but she actually
had been married and was divorced in two.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
Thousand and seven.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Shit, So people are citing this as just kind of
times before, this isn't She's been described as a super mom,
as the best person in the world, as sweet, you know,
all American. There's this picture that's been painted of her
by him on in these interviews, and so people are
just trying to cite other things that maybe would contradict

(01:19:15):
that and inconsistencies exactly, And one of them is that
that this very blatant lie that she was basically trying
to make it seem like she'd never married before.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
And it's like, well, why lie it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:25):
It's not that that's a light on your fucking personality
that makes it that you should be kidnapped.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
It's well, it's not the eighteen hundreds, so you don't.
But but this is long before, Okay, So it's kind
of like saying, it's just kind of trying to show
a thing that maybe this is a person who doesn't
have a problem throwing up a lie. Yeah, but it
could have been put up him. This is her, this

(01:19:50):
was her wedding blog. Okay, But then I will contradict
that just in fairness to say Reading is a small
town and there could be people that don't like her
and are trying to defame her because she is in
this spotlight and she is in a bad place.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
And you know what I want to say, like I
was engaged before Vincent. I got married, and at this
point in my life, I'm like he was really just
a boyfriend, like it was you know, like you get
married and.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
You're like, this was stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
We were young.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
It's like it wasn't a real marriage, and you say
it wasn't because it doesn't fucking matter.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
Sure that makes sense totally. Yeah, are you just you
get to write whatever you want on your wedding blog.
There's plenty of ways to argue the other way, for sure. Now,
there was a blog post written under her maiden name,
which is Sherry Graph on a skinhead website in two
thousand and seven, and it was a story about her

(01:20:46):
getting jumped by three Latino men and five Latina women
and her fighting all of them off, and the whole
thing was kind of about why can't she be proud
of being white? Oh so this is where? Now here's
the thing. Her father says that someone else wrote it,

(01:21:07):
and is it being an impostor and trying to make
her look bad? But I feel like the second you
start saying the word skinheads, and that is part of things. Now,
this also is in this like northern central California. This
is the area where stuff like this takes place. I

(01:21:28):
mean this is there is there probably is a big
there was a huge Latina community there. It's actually reading
apparently is like ninety seven percent white.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
So now I read that, though, I mean that might
not be exactly right, because I read that in all
of these posts that I was reading. That might not
be exact. Yeah, there's definitely a big Latina community because
it's most of these are farming communities. And I'm just
saying what I'm reading. But this now on Reddit, there

(01:22:02):
are all these people who claim to be from reading
and who went to high school with her.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
So basically I won't get into that. Now I realize
I probably shouldn't get into the details of these stories
because this is straight up slander. This is gossip. There's
no way to prove that people went to high school
with her. Yeah, there's no way to prove.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
That she wrote that post.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Actually, I don't know if there's any way to prove
that she wrote that post. They can prove that someone
with that name wrote that post at that time, but
they can't prove it was her right, fingers on the
keys right exactly all right. But but however, it it
ties these.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
Two stories together.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
Yes, it just is a yes, exactly Okay. This thing
with the people that talk about her, nobody is being malicious.
Most of the people say, this doesn't seem right, and
here's what I know about this person. But I hope
we find out the truth. Right. Nobody is on there
like in any way. But I mean, but also that's

(01:23:03):
a good way to try to seem trustworthy is to
not be malicious. But most of the people said that
in high school she needed to be the center of
attention and she would sometimes pretend to have heart problems
if other people were getting too much attention. And so
one of the stories was they were camping and a
girl had hypothermia. She was stayed in the lake too

(01:23:27):
long and had hypothermia, and they as they were rushing
her to the hospital, all of a sudden, Sherry had
heart palpitations and now she had a problem too. It
was like, there's a couple stories like that where it's
like kind of comes out of the blue in a
very convenient way. Again, unproven. Who knows who these people

(01:23:48):
are that are writing this. There was also a woman
who was her. She wouldn't say what it was specifically,
she just said in the beauty business and she was
just saying how one time Sherry had a point.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
This just seems like gossip.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
Yeah, but this is basically like it's times where people
are just saying overreactions, big big, big swings and behavior,
weird shit that no one can talk about because this
person is a victim, right who knows? It leads up
to one that is a fact and one that is

(01:24:25):
that I'm kind of freaked out by.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
It's the disappearance of a girl named Tara Smith. On
October twenty second, nineteen ninety eight, then sixteen year old
Tara Smith, a high school student in Reading, California, left
home to go jogging, only never to be seen, never
to be seen again. Tara's father believes that a local
man who was Tara's romantic interest may have been responsible

(01:24:51):
for her disappearance. He said on the night of her disappearance,
she had plans to meet with the then twenty nine
year old martial arts instructors no to end their relationship.
He was married and had a child, if not two children,
and he had also served a year in jail for rape.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
Oh my god, please her father children.

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
Her father found an unmailed letter in her room after
she disappeared that prompted his theories about zinc. In the letter,
she tells him she knows she'd made a huge mistake.
She never should have gotten involved with him, but this
letter was never delivered, and rather than give him the letter,
we believe she wanted to confront him in person to

(01:25:36):
break it off. Zinc told authorities that Tara had asked
to meet him near her home, and then when they met,
demanded two thousand dollars from him. He refused and she
got angry, and then she asked him to drop her
off at the corner of Old Alturus Road, an old
Oregon trail, eight miles from where Sherry Peppini had been

(01:25:58):
taken of my house, he said. He then went to
hang Glider Hill to pray, and he returned home at
eleven thirty pm. Tara's father went to his house after
Tara didn't return. Tara not Tara, and Tara's father said.

(01:26:20):
Zinc is an avid four wheeler guy. He knows the
back roads. He had five and a half hours to
get rid of the evidence. He's been smart enough to
keep his mouth shut. The police have not been able
to move ahead with the case. It's heartbreaking and very frustrating.
The guy still lives in Reading. Almost twenty years have
passed and he has gotten more comfortable, changed his name

(01:26:42):
and thinks people have forgotten. Oh, he hadn't forgotten. And
while he was missing, while she while Sherry was missing,
her husband Keith asked Tara Smith's father, Terry, for advice.
Keith came to me and we spoke for about an hour.
The father of the missing girl told the magazine, I

(01:27:04):
just told him to stay strong for kids and not
assume law enforcement has the answers and to push them.
It was obvious Keith was torn up, and I believe
he was confident he'd get his wife back. Tara Smith
was a schoolmate of Sherry Peppini.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Wait, they went to school together.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
They went to high school together, the two girls. Yep,
the girl that disappeared went to high school with shery Peppinie.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
Fuck, tell me more.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:31):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
It's basically shit. It's basically that there's no conclusion to
be drawn from it except for that it's an exact
parallel of the same story.

Speaker 3 (01:27:40):
So we don't know where they are, Okay, But one
could argue that I don't have any feelings against or
for Sherry. I just think that the husband sounds suspicious
as fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:27:59):
I'm not victim. I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:28:01):
It sounds like she was a fucking victim. But whether
it's of the crime that she that is claimed that
she went through or this fucking husband who sounds like
a piece of work, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
I think that this is one of those kinds of
stories that anything could be possible. Like the thing everyone
online keeps saying is it's a total gone girl situation. Yeah,
And in that I would say it's that you just
don't we just don't know. But the thing is that
it's to me, It's what's interesting is law enforcement doesn't

(01:28:35):
seem to be moving forward ftly forward with any kind
of like with anything. Maybe there maybe they are, and
they're just not being like they should vocal about it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
The fact that they haven't worn the community to be
on the lookout or to be careful or that this
thing is happening to speaks volumes to me.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
Yeah, and Okay, so I was I gonna say, Oh, yeah,
I don't know. The whole thing is just like creepy.
It's super creepy, and there's a lot The thing that's
interesting is there's a lot of stuff cropping up, Like
when I lived in Petaluma. We would hear gossip all
the time about about polyclass's family, right, and because it

(01:29:17):
was there was always someone that knew, an insider that
had something to tell you what it was like, Oh,
here's the gossip, here's the insider information, and that it's
like urban legends where that kind of stuff people like
to talk about it when, especially when you don't know
what the answer is, heurizing about this and trying to
put it together is very satisfying.

Speaker 3 (01:29:36):
Here's my thing, Okay, here's the major thing to me?
What the thing that sounds more likely is not two
Hispanic women kidnapping Oh mother and wife off the fucking street,
and solely they're just not doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
What's the the other Well.

Speaker 2 (01:29:58):
Because also the husband said that she said they had
they had their faces covered, right, So how would you
know their Hispanic or have eyebrows that are a certain way. Well,
I mean, we don't know how they were covered, but
why would you walk up to two people in a
car with their faces covered.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
The Hispanic women?

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
It just sounds it's one of those things where it's
it just sounds it's so insulting to Hispanic women, And
I fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
Don't see it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:21):
And then there's this man who maybe has the husband
who maybe has ties to skinhead organizations and wants to
fucking deface deface.

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
No, the husband doesn't I know, but I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
The whole skinhead website thing says that's her I know,
but maybe it's him too, but that's before she knew him.

Speaker 3 (01:30:39):
I just it sounds so much more likely that the husband,
who is trying to get a lot of fucking attention
and saying really fucking incriminating weird shits and hiring people
who uh who skirt around law enforcement and has something
to do with this, is so much more likely than
two fucking Hispanic women who have no fucking reason to

(01:31:00):
kidnap this woman and didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:31:02):
Well, that's a ransom, right right, let her go.

Speaker 2 (01:31:05):
There's no point. That's why everybody feels like it stinks
that there's no point to it. It's not like the
idea that they don't she's not saying where she was.
In the meantime, there are no details about there's absolutely
no detail that she has given the police about where
she was, what happened, what like they were saying, somebody
was saying, what state was she in? Like were her

(01:31:26):
nails cut? You know, what did her clothes look like?
Were they the same clothes that she left in?

Speaker 3 (01:31:32):
Like all almost sounds more likely than me, is that
these things happened to this woman, these exact things she's saying.
It just was someone else and they scared her into
saying that it was to Hispanic women.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
I disagree because the list of injuries that she gives,
no hospital would let you leave two hours after you arrive.
It doesn't make sense because if you have burns, that
means you might have infection, you have to get you.
If you've been starved, that means you are the hydrated,

(01:32:04):
so they have to rehydrate you. They need to put
antibiotics into you. And also you're in shock, You've just
had this terrible thing happen.

Speaker 1 (01:32:10):
You're going to do a rape kit, which takes hours
and hours.

Speaker 2 (01:32:13):
Right, I mean unless there's no word about that whatsoever.
There's absolutely no word about that, but they're not going
to It's it doesn't make sense that at no hospital
would let somebody just walk out like, look, I'm fine.
After the list of like how badly she was beaten
an injured.

Speaker 3 (01:32:30):
The victim to me in this and The thing I
want to protect is that it is the two Hispanic
women narrative. I just don't think that's fucking fair to
especially with the skinhead tie. It pisses me off that
she would that that would be the narrative.

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
And then I'll just remind that the skinhead tie could
be some weird red herring just to say it. Who
knows what that is? I mean, anyone can write her name,
you know, who knows what that was?

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
Cock man.

Speaker 2 (01:32:58):
It's it's such as you dig into the story, you know,
it goes into like when I was in that stuff
where it's like, oh, people that went to high school
with her said she was this, said.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
She was yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
But then I'm like, this is gossip.

Speaker 1 (01:33:11):
This is gossip.

Speaker 2 (01:33:12):
This is shitty gossip. What would people say about me
if you know, if it was me in the same situation,
the shit that people say that about us would be
it would be upsetting. But to come back around to
the parallel story of a girl she went to high
school with that actually did disappear.

Speaker 1 (01:33:28):
And this is the.

Speaker 2 (01:33:29):
Other thing I will read that someone someone did say
on Reddit that I actually really liked. Someone said I
actually work with human trafficking victims now, and it really
pisses me off that the whole world is freaking out
over this one woman. Yet there are thousands of girls
that go missing and are sold into sex trafficking every

(01:33:50):
year right here in the US, and they aren't even
in the news. I really really hope that they figure
all this out and the truth comes out, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (01:34:00):
Fuck man, a fucking man.

Speaker 2 (01:34:03):
I mean, yeah, shit, if it brings light to the
fact that sex traffic actually does happen, that'll be great.
But I feel like there's a lot of people who
are like armchair detectives like you and me, who see
who smell a rat and go, there's more to this story,

(01:34:24):
and they're not talking.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:26):
And also, oh, the last thing is they started to
go fund me. Somebody else started to go fund me
and in seven days they made forty thousand dollars for
the family. Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (01:34:40):
Something fucking smells fishy.

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
I mean, and it's in the it's in his sister's name.

Speaker 3 (01:34:46):
This man, this dude, like, I'm not even looking at her.
This fucking dude, Well, the big dude is saying enough
himself to be incriminated, nothing to do with her. She
might have she might have been a fucking pawn in
his game, and.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
Or vice versa, or a third choice that we don't know.
It's just so fascinating because when these things get presented
on the news I think back to like that I
saw this just briefly in passing and it was her
blonde hair and big smile and this mother is missing,
and everybody's talking about it across the nation. And then

(01:35:28):
it basically is like, Okay, here's the story and then the.

Speaker 3 (01:35:33):
End and everyone's like, well, wait a second, Yeah, we
need to make sure that we fucking updates as much
as we gets as soon as we get information about this.
We need updated because this is one of the things
that like you never hear about again, and it's.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
Like, oh, well, they all want to fuck in prison.

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
Also, the International Kidnapping Expert is that part in the middle.
Someone said this on Reddit, but is like this is
this is basically a Coen Brothers movie. It's like the Karen.
I mean, it doesn't. It's like somebody coming in and
being like, I am on behalf of an anonymous donor.

(01:36:08):
I am here to say you can come to me
and you don't have to go to the cops. Which
the cops up there must have lost their fucking shit.
I have a degree in international kidnapping things I am.
My major was Liam Neesening.

Speaker 3 (01:36:24):
Karen, that's our new fucking title for Listen. If anyone
gets kidnapped and you need someone to fucking intervene on your.

Speaker 1 (01:36:30):
Behalf, don't go to George. Come right here, Karen and.

Speaker 3 (01:36:34):
George and my favorite murder like we are on this
with fucking wild speculation, arsonal experience.

Speaker 2 (01:36:40):
There's going to be a lot of we're mad at
you for saying this, that and the other thing. But
I misspeak this story. I think we've cleared it at
every level. But this story is fascinating. You can't deny amazing.
There's something else going on. It's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:36:58):
Motherfuckers. Everyone's up, they're what is fucking wrong with people?

Speaker 3 (01:37:02):
Just like live your fucking life. I'm sorry, I'm really angry.

Speaker 2 (01:37:07):
It's just like, can we not have a fucking moment
like not being total pieces of shit? Can't it just
be Christmas? Can't it be fucking seized candy and fucking
true crime, fucking playing hard on Elvis and fucking meme?

Speaker 1 (01:37:23):
Like can we please?

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
I hate it?

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
The answer that you get served up every week is no.

Speaker 1 (01:37:30):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:37:30):
No answer is nine no no moments nine. Uh well,
speaking of moments, anything could happen to this week?

Speaker 1 (01:37:37):
Shit, oh forgot, I always forget.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
I'm sure really think it through all right?

Speaker 3 (01:37:44):
Well, I think every week it's gonna be nephew for
me because we had our cheat family I know, right,
but I have a specific one. We had our family
Hanka party last night, and my nephew who's won, and
my other nephew who's six, we like, I like made
them all play a game to get We all played
a game and it was like because I didn't want

(01:38:04):
my six year old nephew to feel left out and
I want my one year old nephew to like have
memories of my six year old nephew, and like, so
I fucking anti fucking Georgia.

Speaker 1 (01:38:13):
Like totally killed it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:14):
What game?

Speaker 1 (01:38:15):
Just scare the baby? Did the baby?

Speaker 2 (01:38:19):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
I loved to scare the baby? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:38:21):
Of course it was great.

Speaker 1 (01:38:22):
It was great. That's good. Yeah, it was just like
made made my heart feel good.

Speaker 2 (01:38:27):
I had kind of a magical moment which was I
was turning to get onto the one on one freeway
and as I passed the mobile gas station which is
right on Coo Anger there right there. Yeah, I think
it is. There were three men doing their nightly what

(01:38:55):
is it, pats, Oh, there were there were three men
facing east. Oh, my God and doing their nightly Islamic prayers.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
That's gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (01:39:07):
And it was. They were doing it because they it
was just basically the Furthest corner away from the guests
pumps that they could you have to be at a
certain time, you have to stop wherever you are and
do the prayers right and it was it was the
Furthest corner and it was like kind of around the corner,
so it wasn't like people could see them or whatever.
But they were also doing it in front of the

(01:39:28):
mobile symbol, so it was lit up for me as
I turned to look at it, it was lit up
in front of that symbol like a movie. It was
one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (01:39:38):
What a beautiful moment to remind you that there's more
than just this traffic and this and driving, and there
is at that moment someone is having a spiritual connection
ye with the universe that has nothing to do with
your surroundings and their surroundings.

Speaker 2 (01:39:53):
They're taking some time out to do that. And also
that this is fucking America. Yeah, that that's what we
were supposed to be a to see in America. That
that's what you should want to see. And that's a
great thing to see.

Speaker 3 (01:40:06):
And thank god we live in a city, Los Angeles
that doesn't interfere with that. Yeah, that that supports that, and.

Speaker 1 (01:40:14):
And it is open that it's fine with that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:40:18):
I felt very grateful. That's fucking gorgeous cool, and I
played Scare the Baby.

Speaker 1 (01:40:25):
Meanwhile, I'm scaring this ship out of my Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:40:31):
If you go to iTunes and you can, you can
rate with you and subscribe us, and you know it's
great it helps us. But but fuck man, thank you guys, guys.
iTunes my favorite, murder Instagram my favorite. I don't know,
just thank you, thank you, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:40:48):
Thanks to Stephen Ray Morris of the per Cast audio
engineer and good gifts. You guys are amazing. Thank you
for listening. Elvis, you want to wait, you want to await.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holo, Happy Holidays, Elvis.

Speaker 1 (01:41:01):
Do you want a cookie? My cookie? All right?

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
Stay sexy, don't get murdered, Bye,