74 - Jews Vs. Catholics

On this week's episode, Karen and Georgia cover the Carbon Copy Murders and the Annecy Shootings.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Molly, you a danger girl. Stay sexy. It's Welcome the Murder.
Welcome to my favorite murder, to my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Your favorite murder podcast. I regret saying that.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Leave it in. Okay. I don't know if nian's ever
said this, but fuck the hater.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
I feel like this is a new idea. And do
you mean the social media haters?

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Everyone? Just any hater, any haters, they are going to hate.
They're going to hell, that's what you're going to say. Yeah,
I believe in hell. Now new update on the podcast. Oh, neat,
you're Catholic? Now now I'm Catholic? Cool like that? How's
it been.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hard?

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah? Right, it sucks. I'm suddenly bell Crow. Everything I've
ever done in my life, you feel guilty for things
other people have done. I shouldn't know much guilt. I
shouldn't have let them do that, even though I didn't
know them. When I was a child, Yes, I used
to think about.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
How disappointed Jesus was in me and get so sad,
and then I'd just be like, how am I I
can never make good on that?

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Now? How am I going to make good on this?
What the how the fuck? Here's how I'll make good
on it.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'll go into a dark room and talk to a
man behind a screen about the specifics of what makes
me a bad person.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
I'm eight. He sounds legit. He sounds like a good
guy who's helping people.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
The whole system seems really like a humanitarian Yeah, like kind.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Of they're trying on you people, but you guys just
keep failing them. These guys behind the screen, Yeah yeah,
they're They're like, what am I here for? You should
come in one we can be like, I'm good. Yeah,
but you just keep bringing stealing shit from your sister
if you win it? Am I right? Did you do that?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Ever?

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Impure thoughts?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Oh yeah, stealing from my sister, stealing from my My
dad always had a coin jar in the closet.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
But how are you He put it in there so
you could be a child, right and steal from it.
That's kind of what they're for.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
But I would actually take it to coinstart, change it
in for eighty dollars and then.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Get holy should not really I stole from my sister
like those stupid little like children's lockers that they would have.
Oh yeah, like come on, I would open it and
I would steal her money. And I would go across
the street and buy pieces and a squol and I've
never felt guilty about it one day in my life.
That's the glory of Judaism. Oh, I'm giving it an Italian. Oh,

(03:09):
the Italian Jews are the best ones. Yeah, I don't know.
That's great. No, they don't exist. I was like, whoa
kind of thing we get all of the Italians. Yeah,
they're cast a lot of Italian food, though. I mean
I think I love the mustache. Sorry, there you go.
That's all I was speaking of the religion. I have
something to read to you. Okay, okay, remember last week
I did like, I didn't a cult killing, I do

(03:32):
satan cult kind of thing. It was intense. Yeah, thank you,
And so I think, I mean, that's what you want
in this podcast, is like if you could, if you
could like describe your story in one word, like it
should be intense, it's for sure. So I mentioned that
it was a Satanist thing and that at some point
I was just like, I just want to say that
Satanism isn't like that, and then moved on because I

(03:54):
don't know how to explain, right, And so someone explained it. Oh,
someone sent an email to us, and it said, Hey,
Karen and Georgia, I'd like to think that I'm a
that I'm pretty chill. Plus I'm a Satanist. Your last
episode cracked me up, so I thought i'd take the
opportunity to tell you a little bit about modern Satanism. Skippers,

(04:16):
don't skip skip, Skippers, you need this the most. Maybe
you'll fucking learn something, Maybe you'll stop being of the devil.
There are all kinds of Satanists. The ones that believe
in worship, the ones that believe and worship the actual
devil are not what you might call mainstream Satanisms. More
common Satanists more common. You'll find people who belong to
the Church of Satan or the Satanic Temple. I am

(04:39):
member the Satanic Temple, and also a local group called
Satanic San Francisco. Like, good morning, Satanic San Francisco. Here's
a local bus. That's where I lived when I lived
in San Francisco. What neighborhood did you live in? This
is fucking hell. Oh my god, I only have eleven
dollars and I have to take the bus to two
different jobs. Bless did you take that the six sixty

(05:02):
six come the one that went down Lincoln. I think.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
The one that basically the one that went diagonaltly.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Across town, not the fun Satanic one, no way, the
one that smelled like feet. You gotta think the Satanic
bus smells like feet all bit too though, right or candles.
I'm a member of the Satanic Temple, the Satanic San Francisco.
Our version of Satanism is what you might call an

(05:34):
as atheistic religion. Most of us do not believe in God,
nor by extension, the devil. What we do believe in
is a personal autonomy, equal rights, and the separation of
church and state. We've just co opted the imagery created
by mainstream, mostly Christian religions to represent our opposition to
some of the more oppressive beliefs. So when some government
office wants to put up a Ten Commandment statue on

(05:55):
public land, we'll be there to ask for our own
met statuethamet baha met statue. Thank you. After all, the
government can't advocate for any one religion thanks First Amendment,
so they either have to represent all religions fairly or
be hands off with all religions. The Satanic Temple also
has a strong feminist views, which also which was what

(06:17):
attracted me to it in the first place. Our emphasis
on personal freedom also includes freedom over our bodies, meaning
a woman's right to choose is sacricynct. They have fun
with their religion. They have pot lucks, they have screenings
of movies like Rosemary's Babies. They have letter writing campaigns
where they curse the Trump's Trump's cabinet. We might not
believe in curses, but we wanted to grab the attention

(06:37):
of those who do. And even a book club. Right now,
we're reading a book about the Satanic Panic in the
nineteen nineties, which sound's fucking awesome, So it's obvious why
most of our members are also murderinos. Thank you for
a wonderful show that is funny and fascinating. Stay sex,
you don't get murdered and something Sattanas probably hail or something. Yeah,
Hail Satan. I see something like that. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, Simon, thank you for providing information. But I think
that's like such a clear in the in the Satanic
Panic days when the Church of Satan, which being from
the San Francisco Baria and the Anton Leavy and the
Church of Satan had a real like it had a
real it was scary, and people will talk about it

(07:23):
in these very serious, scary terms, and it like that
letter makes me so happy because really it's a political
group and what they're saying is like, this country was
founded on the separation of church and state for a
very important reason, because when the government becomes just chooses
a religion that they're going to represent and not others,

(07:44):
that means the people who aren't in that religious group
are going to be oppressed. And so it's it's actually
kind of bad assy. Yeah, I mean everything about that
is super bad assy, But I mean, and at the
same time, I only can think of my aunt Mary,
the nun, who would be like, I don't know if
I want you to be saying that you love the church.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
And she wouldn't be saying that, she'd be saying Latin
prayers over your soul.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Although but no, but she actually might be going I
can see their point. She's the most fair, lovely person ever.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
But well, when I said Satanists are actually cool, that's
what I meant. Yeah, last week, I love and I
couldn't put into words.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
They're kind of humanists that are being anarchy, aren't anarchists.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
And they're using I mean it's almost like they're really
great pr people. Yeah, good for them. So I'm happy
that that got sent because I think it was necessary.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Also, I've heard on last podcast on the Left, Henry
and Marcus both talking about I don't think Ben Kissel
is a Satanist, but.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
The let's spread the rumor because he's running for like
council in Brooklyn. Oh, that's right, it's just sex. Have
you looked into a Satanist path?

Speaker 2 (08:52):
They talk about that all the time, and that's Henry
has talked a lot about that words. It's really about
personhood and asserting yourself so that you don't live under
this thing of oh, someone somewhere is going to judge me,
and someone made up some man who was in charge,
made up a god and a religion so that people.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Would fall in line. And now you feel guilty, Karen,
or you did at eight years old for doing stupid
shit that had nothing to do. Still don't oh, all day,
all day, every day things I can't even figure out.
It's fun, isn't it to be just damaged from your childhood?
I mean it really is. It really makes you an
interesting person.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
I think it gives me depth and I think it
also there's a certain gen seqo about me.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Mm hmmm mmm hmmm. Do you have any correction that
was my corrections corner? Yes, I have a couple.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Let's see, Well, these are the tweets we've gotten of,
Like this is now mirror corrections corner where people are
correct giving us the corrections and we're just reading that. Right.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, boons Farm was the wine you were trying to
think of. I was gonna say mine was that. If
you had guessed Arbor mixed, that's fine. But what I
actually remember, Yeah, but what I actually like, I feel
like that's a fair one that people were like, is
it Arbor miss? I mean I got this on all platforms,
all social media platforms. You had a telegram at the
front door, it is the wine Arbor Miss Elvis took

(10:15):
a shit and it just said Arbor missed and those shit.
That was really weird. But yes, if you guessed boons Farm,
you are correct of the weird wine. Like I couldn't remember,
and so many people wrote like I was screaming boons
Farm when you said, I bet people are screaming whatever
the name is. Yeah, and it's true. Yeah, that one
really had a ripple effect so many because everyone has

(10:36):
been hungover. It relives off Bon's farm.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yes, because the sugar content is like fifty percent, it's
some horrible thing.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Well, what do you expect me to like purple wine?

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Well, and also, if you drank purple wine when you
were a teen, how are you supposed to remember anything.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
At this point? Sure, so we're everything's fine, okay, go on.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Maraga is the city that is in the hills near
Oakland and near Berkeley and blah blah blah. That Adrian
actually just texted me because she just listened to that
episode and she was like the text I just got,
like right before I pulled up here was dude, are
you serious?

Speaker 1 (11:08):
It's Maraga? And I was like, okay, because still haven't
I still haven't heard of it.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yes, but I absolutely know it, and I think we
probably played them in softball or something in high school.
But like, out of context, it just made me realize
I've lived in La longer than I lived in Pedalo.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Oh congratulations, I don't think so, don't you think so?
I think so? I mean, I mean when I did.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
The Arsenal Inspector, who was the arsonist secretly John Orr.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
The TV set he burned down that everyone sent Did
you ever get any of these messages?

Speaker 1 (11:44):
It was the Walton set. Oh, I was thinking of
a television that like you have in here, a television
set that you have in your living room. Like I
don't remember that was I just tuned out.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
I think it was thee It was at the very
end of the case. Was the last thing he burned
an actual TV show set? Yeah, the exterior pretending that
we're at the Walton's house.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
What's the Waltons. I don't remember that one. It was
the old one. It was like the whole family.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
They lived in the mountains in probably West Virginia or
something like that, and there was like the grandma and
the dad and the mom and.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
The fucking six kids. Good night John Boy, good night
Mary l and them. Okay, that's the Waltons, all right,
Well sex to be them. Yeah, hopefully no one was
inside the Walter when it burned. No.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Then the other one was there's two now, so a
bunch of people thought, uh, I had said last week
what happened was and a lot of people thought I
was referencing the podcast Another Round, which is Tracy Clayton's
podcast Who I Am. I've never met her in real life,
but I claim to be friends with her because we've talked.
We've talked on Twitter, which is loose especially Yeah. I

(12:52):
mean she I think she'd pick me up at the
airport if I needed her too.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
I get that. There's a lot of people I haven't
really quote met but they're friend but we kind of
know each other, and so.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
She I guess that's something she says on her podcast,
but I it's it's I'm quoting the Fresh. That's what
the Fresh Prince of bel Air would say when he
was trying to make an excuse for something. What was
what what happened? His uncle would like confront him on
something and be like, well, what happened was? But I
hedged it a little bit because it sounded like I'm
a white girl doing a black voice. And I was like,
in this day and age, let's not be that person.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
We don't want to know. What's it called culturally appropriate?
That's right, I'm so overly afraid of culturally appropriating that.
Like I won't wear my leg I have this like
cute like Chinese style dress. This like vintage China doll
dress that I just won't wear anymore because I'm like,
this is this isn't okay, this is rude. This is
like someone else's culture. Do you mean one of those

(13:46):
ones that's kind of daggonally at the top and it's
like nap to the neck? Those are I don't know
about that. I just don't want I'm so scared. Now, well, fine,
I'm good. That's better that right. And it doesn't look
great on me either or whatever. It's not a good
cut anyhow. But I love Jos, so I don't want
to be mean.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
But full props to another round and those women who
are hilarious and our friends whatever. Now this is the
last one, and this is the one that we get
the most. People think. Some people think that we invented
hey or bay yee, But then oftentimes people ask, are
you quoting Alaska from RuPaul's Drag Race.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
I actually am quoting my friends.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Hailey Schaeffer, Tanil Cobb, and Hannah Pinter, who were aps
with me on like a bunch of TV shows I've
worked on, and we when we were at our unhappiest,
I would like walk up. I was oftentimes their boss,
and I would have to go and be like, can
you guys get me a thing? But to kind of
sometimes it was either to cut the tension of like

(14:52):
I have to now tell you what to do. Or
we hated At one job, we hated the people around
us so much that we did it as a lad.
So I would walk up to ask them for something,
which should have been almost a silent transaction, and instead
I'd go Hei, and then I'd go Hei and we
would do it as obnoxiously as possible.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah. So I feel like and I feel like and
I can't remember life for this podcast, but I'm pretty
sure that like that was by ye Hei. It was
in all my emails, Like when I wanted to be like, hey,
I have to ask you for something, yeah, I would write,
hii I E you know, like, I just think it's
a thing that people do. But we I've always mentioned
that that is something that is like a coined phrase.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yes on drink Race Alaska made it popular. It was
like a thing that people are coppying. But when the
last time I saw Hannah and Haley and Neil, I
was like, where did are you guys doing it? Because
Alaska did it on drag Race and they're all like,
I don't know. I just started doing it at some
point nobody knew our source.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
That's the same thing for me and I. Recently we
were talking about the phrase coucie twinge, just like one
of my like when you were just like, oh god, no,
it's like that's getting a coucie twinge, and like you
were like, well, someone had to have said that first,
and I'm like, I don't fucking think so, Like, I
just remember, did you look it up? No? But I
just remember, of course I didn't look it up. That's work.
Oh oh, But I just remember saying it all the

(16:13):
time with friends and like it being the best description.
And the first time I heard it was from a friend,
it wasn't. Like so, man, everything is fucking appropriated. Everything's appropriated,
and nothing except to anyone your Chinese dress except for
six day sexy, don't get murdered, that's ours. Don't fucking
steal it. Yeah, we made that up. Listen for sure.
Here comes the lawsuit. It actually turns out in nineteen

(16:35):
forty seven Dorothy Parker said it no, no, the trademark
is then it's expired. Sorry, that was all for me.
I just thought i'd update all of this. That was great.
Oh we have a present to give. Oh that's right,
episode on the air present. Listen. Look, it's been five months.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Stephen Ray Morris has been working for us on the
good faith. But someday we will pay him some day,
not even some like, that's.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Not even the thing he's been waiting for. Someday is
that Karen and Georgia as human beings, will get our
shit together enough to set up a fucking payroll as
like a regular business, which is like so daunting to
both of us in a way that's like, I don't
know how to adult. That's why we fucking hired Steven.
That's right, You're supposed to be the adult, Stephen. But
then we have to do the work. Yeah. So when
we brought your walking papers in the form of a

(17:25):
check that I feel kind of bad because man, the
government took out so much of it. Hey, that's like,
it's so big, it's huge. Let him have it here,
you go, Oh my gosh, I'm like, and Elvis rips
it up. Elvis, Elvis, rip it up, Steven, look at
it you want We're on camera reaction yeah, but don't
get you disappointed. Oh He's like, I can't pay rent

(17:46):
this month.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Oh my gosh. Oh I can totally pay rent. Okay,
Oh my gosh, well thank.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
You, thank you paying you the money that we promised
you in January that you we owed you. You're welcome.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Oh my gosh. Sorry, I'm like totally read right now.
Probably God, and this check is so heavy.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Steve at ADP, I want to say, who's our my god?
First of all, when I emailed him, he was like,
I can help you with anything you need. Blo bity
blah blah blah, stay sexy, don't get murdered to you.
And I was just like, oh, this is my friend.
So he the whole time he walked me through everything.
He was so patient and cool because I was like,
I don't know how fucking doing. Yeah, they were the
company was so great. I'm so happy we're went through them.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
His name is Steve So.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
And his name is Steve. We're golden.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, he gave a mustache.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Probably does now what if he has like he's the
exact opposite of you.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
He has like his hair parts on the other side,
and he has a weird Abraham or like what do
you call it, like an amish beard on the bottom
instead of a mustache on the top.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
We're going to become best friends.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Or what if it's actually Stephen he has to get
a job at ADP because we're not fucking paying him enough.
And he was just like, no, it's me. Let me
show you exactly how to do this, word for word.
I'll do everything. Well, congratulations, six months, we'll see you
again with a paycheck. No, it's month right now, it's
monthly now.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yayyay, you're on your own schedule to be employed like
a normal You're on the take. It's very exciting that
you are a part of our team seeming really help
us so much and save us so much pain, so much.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
And I love that the people in this little group
are like people. We care about this little like this
little group of Stephen and Vince.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Yes, no, this is my favorite thing to do in
the world.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yaya, More than the per cast. You have to say yay.
Your co host is like, fuck you.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
I'm going to just put a version where she only
hears where it's.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Just yeah, no ending yourself out. Yeah, you get a
clean no out in there? Cool? Anything else? A lot
of murders happening in the world, but I know how
to talk about them so much. Heavy shit.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
I got real depressed yesterday. Like we were like it
was like five and we had decided not to record
them to that line, and so I was like, I
had the night for you, and and it's's like, do
I go out to eat? And I'm like, court, like
that's my dream. But then I was just like, I
don't want to go anywhere. Nowhere seems and I realized
it was because I had just been reading the news. Yeah,
and I was so depressed.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, it's only bad news now, Oh my god. And
it's one thing after the other. It's just every from
every direction. You know, it's terrible, terrible news. But I
will say this, I feel like people are making an
effort to if they are not the enemy, they are

(20:31):
making an effort to make sure you know they're a friend.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
I feel like that's happening more and more these days.
I love that.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
I feel like it's the thing to keep your eye
out for because it's important because if you focus, the
news is only going to tell you aboud stuff. It's
how they make their money.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
They do not make money with their this dog is
best friends of the goat. Nobody stays around for that story.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, they only stay around to either have their fears
confirmed or you know, learn a new fear.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
That's just what the news news is. Yeah, so you
have to tune out and you have to you know,
go to soup plantations. It was so heartfelt and then
somebody got real. I always I always ruin it. No,
that was beautiful. It does seem but you know, it's
particularly lately it does seem like all the news it's
like here's here's a bunch of good people where bad

(21:20):
people did things to them. It's like there's just like
innocent people who keep getting bad stuff done to them
by people who and I can't wrap my head around it,
are bad people, you know, which is so hard to understand.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
And it's it's the abusive power. It's yeah, there's a
lot of abusive power right now. That what is happening
now is we're in a transitional phase where power is
being taken back or taken away, and it seems slow
and it seems like maybe it won't change, but it
will change, and it is changing, and you have to

(21:55):
believe it's changing so that you can continue trying, because
that's the most important is is you know, it feels
like sometimes this setup is they're trying to get people
to quit, they're trying to get people to turn against
each other. And the other day, like there's a million
we could talk about the police shootings, we could talk
about fucking Bill Cosby, we could talk about politics of

(22:18):
all kinds, we could whatever attacks on Muslim children.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
I mean, like so fucked.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
But the other day somebody just posted the picture of
hundreds of people in London walking with flowers to put
them down. Where at the at the most recent place
where a Muslim was attacked.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
The mosque where they drove. I drove into that drove
the van.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
And but what I think people are starting to understand
is when things like that happen, everybody else needs to
stand up and show the world, no, this is not
what we want it. Like it's the uh, just being
being quiet isn't working anymore. Like people have to make
a stand and show that there is another force working.

(23:04):
And we were talking about all of this at work,
and at one point I just said, I'd like to
remind everybody about the Women's March, because that was millions
of men and women, but mostly women in their hats
all around the world standing up and going nope, And
that's you know, that's just try to remember.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, I would like to keep that attitude of positivity,
and then if you can't, just make sure that you're
not in taking, that you're balanced out.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
It's like the turn off the news and turn on
Bob's Burgers or something else that's going to make you happy.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Baskets which is like depressing, but like it's so good started.
I started binge watching it last night in a way
that was like, oh, I'm going to be gone all
doing this all weekend. Yeah, period, it's so good, is
so good, and you're right on it. I know you're
you're right on the second season. It was gonna be
start ray. I can't wait to watch your episode. And
a meeting recently and someone found out that you had

(24:01):
written this certain They were talking about this certain episode
and they that you write it. They almost heard it crying.
It's like, I'm so proud of you, so cool, thank you.
It's exciting. It's the one thing that is worth uh
having two jobs for, which is yeah, if it was
any other show, I'd be like, what the fuck. Karen
you don't need this, and it's like, why are you

(24:23):
writing on family feud? This is I love those questions
because there's so many questions. I take the polls. I'm
the one that goes out in the street, on the streets,
biggest of all places, and it's really hot. I like
to go out into the street and ask people what's
the weirdest place? Well, I'm speaking of positivity. Should we

(24:45):
talk about murder? Yeah, let's let's keep it on an
up note. Yeah, thank you. First, I think I am,
and I think I was supposed to be last week.
Did you hear about those give me that check back? Yeah,
give me that check We're ripping this up in front
of your faces, showing it up. Thank you. Oh oh,
we have to mention if you are not a skipper
and you did hear the you went to listen to

(25:06):
the podcast and in the beginning you were like, Okay,
this is the theme song I was listening to every week,
and then it wasn't the theme song and it was
some fucking magic moment. That's right. So if your skipper,
go back and listen again, because the theme song this
week of my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Is an amazing it's Georgia's Early Rave Days meets meets
Karen Song meets Forensic Files meets my song.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
It's a remix of my favorite murder theme, which is amazing,
and it's written by Yogi's that's correct. So if you
go on what's what's the channel that they go on,
Steve World, if you go on SoundCloud, it's why do
oh g z? Right now, what's this channel the children
put their music on? Stephen, Let's see, yes, this is

(25:53):
this is what was the Oh, this is satanic San Francisco,
Stephen's what's this thing going? Steven's tech whiz?

Speaker 3 (26:01):
This brand new theme song by Yogi.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yogi's yog z on SoundCloud. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you
so much. Had I lost family when I heard it,
We left so hard. It's so brilliantly done. Thank you.
What an honor. I just don't even remember when I
said that thing about ghost in the middle of you know, Mullume,
which I just love. She ever hears what you said
and you're like, oh my god, that's I'd like that girl.
Yeah yourself, Yes you should. She's great. She's really great. See,

(26:28):
we didn't have a guilt and Catholicism and Judaism we
had You're fucking great and Judaism You're so cool. Really
there's guilt, but no, we dig ourselves. We love hearing
ourselves talk. We're great now. I just like to quickly
go back to Steven's crutch on corner. Yeah, I felt
like he was really about to spill it. Oh go Steven.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
No, I mean I I just I got excited and
I was like George's first. That's that was on me.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
This is a rare mistake from Stephen Radmos. It almost
never happens. It really doesn't unless we just don't.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
I've been flogging myself since speaking good, just like DaVinci
Coat stops.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
We might need to use one of the three tools
that people have given us at live shows to check
when it's our turn.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Oh yeah, the at where there's ones like an abacus one.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
It's like a rock that you flip, you flip it. Yeah,
there's so many. Yeah, it's pretty great, really beautiful handcrafted
tools that we've never looked at since they were given
to us. Listen, one day, I'm going to go up
in that fucking podcast loft that's hot as shit and
clean it and organize it. And it's going to beautiful.
I let my one and a half year old niece, nephew,
what's a nephew, it's a boy, go up there and

(27:40):
he like picked up this like cute knit thing at
someone made of Elvis, and I was like, you can
fucking keep that, like but in a good way because
it was so cool, and he like went directly towards
it and was like, oh, held it, and then like
carried it around the house for the rest of the day.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
And I was the someone made us, And it's actually
been a couple people. It's probably it's the same style,
but I have given us knit versions, little versions of ourselves.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Keep meaning to post this at live shows.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
And my dogs walk around with Georgia in their mouths
all day and it's so hilarious and.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Sometimes so happy.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
I take pictures because George does a thing where she's
laying down. George is like a big lab, right, Yeah,
she's half lab, halfhound, so she is.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
She's a weirdo. She looks weird, but she what she
likes to do is if she's feeling lazy, she'll have
a toy in her mouth and she just flips it
up in the air and catches it. That's like, how down? Yes,
so she's so.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
I have a picture series that I sent to Georgia
of George flipping Georgia up in the air and.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
George is a girl, right, yeah, Okay, I'm going to
post it like a scroll thing on Instagram. I know
I keep saying I'm gonna do shit on Instagram, but
I'm really good. It made me so happy to see that.
You know what. The reason I did posted I couldn't
find the girl who made that toy, right, and I
wanted to credit her. But I'll figure it out.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
All the people and we do talk to people in
real time when we're being given things, but we really
do love them and we really do keep them and
they're in boxes and stuff.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Even though like weird shit people bring us. That's just
like I didn't know what to bring you, so I
got you this like sticker from my town, and it's
just like, fucking thank you.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
We still have I still I was just telling my
sister this when we were in I'm pretty sure it
was Seattle. A guy gave me his Costco card and goes,
look at what look at how evil I look in
my picture on my Costco card? And I was like,
oh my god, you look fairly evil. And I handed
back and he goes, no, no, that's for you, and
I still I keep it. It's right on my desk.

(29:34):
It just sits right next to me, right where I
type shit. So you know we have you with us.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
That makes me want to cry, Like we're just it's
so funny and happy and lucky and I'm so stoked.
We're having a good time. Everybody listen. Sorry to be
so stuck up. I'm sorry into ourselves and I'm Jewish
and I think I'm pretty neat.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
I always wanted to be Jewish ever since I saw
The Goodbye Girl and Quinn Cummings. I was like, that
is that's who I was supposed to be. I was
born in the wrong body, i was born in the
wrong family. I'm supposed to be the child of a
divorced mother in Manhattan.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah. Well, I think Catholics, Catholics and Jews are very
there's a lot of similarities in the families there. So
you just need to fucking take my cockiness a little bit.
I'm going to okay and like just take a little
couple of things. I'm gonna take a half a cup
year cockiness. My mother always told me that Jewish men
and Irish Catholic women are the best combination because yeah,

(30:34):
they're both matriarchal societies, and so a lot of other
men get very offended by how bossy and controlling we
are as Irish Catholic women. But which is a chunchym
I like it because I think Jewish women will raise
that way too, which is why. And we think we're badasses.
So when I meet a Jewish man, I'm like, fuck you,

(30:56):
you're so fucking cocky, Like I don't like it. I've
never dated a Jewish guy, this fucking atheist whatever, and
I could so I could see that like an appreciation there. Yeah,
I think it's that's a nice mix. This has been
Catholic do talk. We're gonna cut all this out, gonna
send everyone next week Buddhism. So it's me this week. Yay, Okay,

(31:22):
give it to me. I'm gonna get my sweaty fucking
ass on this leather couch comfortable. Yeah, slide your ass.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Around and really find your space in this world. I
so having a job again. I when I do my murders,
I usually do them. I have to do them quickly, Okay,
I'm sorry, but the pose you're in right.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
Now, helping you is just helping you.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
My George's facing me on the couch with one leg
up there as if I'm her gynecologist, and.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
It's like, I have a pillow.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
It's exactly no that you're blocking it entirely. But it's
exactly like that scene from Girls when she at surf
camp and she just pulls bathing suiticide pussy.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Favorite scene. I think about that all the time and definitely,
and I'm also wearing like like nineteen seventies, this is
called like a onesie romper short shorts. So I moved
this pillow, it would be fits over, it would be over.
I love that scene. You moved that pillow. We're bestie
best our best friends. Don't think I wouldn't too because
something about juesuses we have no fucking shape naked. We're

(32:26):
just always naked. Can I tell that story of on
your wedding night so I don't remember talking about it? Gover? Oh? Yeah,
can I I have no secret.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
You don't care on Georgia's wedding night and this was
like I don't even know what tool it was. When
you guys went back to your room. Obviously, it was
probably two thirty in the morning. I was already I
editedy gone back to my room and gone to bed.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
I look at my phone and Georgia had texted me
a picture of herself. Well, here can I explain the way?
So a bunch so we after the wedding was over,
we went to, like, you know, to a little after
party thing, and like, I guess a bunch of you
guys might go. Girlfriends had snuck into our hotel room
and decorated it all cute and put candles and like
that was me and put like, but you had helped

(33:08):
me with the wedding too, And because I just don't
want to take credit, and we wrote you made my
bouquet that's sitting right over there, that's right, put rose
petals in a hard like just did some really cute,
sweet like shit. That and that whole day made me
think how like there was so much help from so
many girlfriends, and it made me so fucking it was
so wonderful. And so I got back and saw that

(33:29):
and started crying immediately.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
So then, and she had already taken her dress off,
which means she was topless entirely like there. She doesn't
wear a foundation garment. Our girl Georgia. So she's texted
me a picture of herself topless, crying with like her wedding,
you still had something in your hair for your wedding.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
I texted that to maybe ten of my girlfriends, and
I had glitter because we had glitter in the fucking
photo it. So it was just glitter stuck to my
entire body and I was sitting on the bed crying,
and so I don't care a bunch of you guys
have a topless photo naked and crying on your wedding. Hell,
who fucking cares? Well done you, Yay, thank you, thank
you for telling that story.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Okay, So, because because I'm pushing off my homer to
the last minute, I was going through you recommend it
to me. Mysteries Abound, which is it's an amazing podcast
by an Australian guy named Paul Rex.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
It is the best.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
He reads articles out of really cool magazines and they're
just they're just interesting, fascinating wonders from around the world.
That's the stuff about aliens, that's the stuff about there's
murder stuff. There's just kind of general mysteries. Some some
of bits of nature based so cool, it's so good.
But he has this amazing voice, so like I've been

(34:49):
listening to it on planes because you travel so much
and you get into that weird travel stress mode. So
when I got onto a plane, I put that podcast
on and I can like go to sleep right, and
I just am like super relaxed.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
So I've listened to all of them. I'm obsessed, so
uh so.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Also he he is an independent podcaster, so you can
go on to just google Paul Rex and mysteries abound.
He has another podcast called Origins like Origin with a
Z right, I haven't heard any of that, but that
another it's another thing that seems fascinating definitely, But he
when he reads his articles says, it's from this magazine

(35:31):
or this website, call the source, quotes quotes the source.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
I don't get it. Really good idea.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
And one of the one the websites he talks about
all the time is a website called Cool Interesting Stuff
dot com.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, I've heard that falling asleep cool from Cool Interesting
stuff dot com. This is from Cool Interesting stuff dot com.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
I love it so but also give please give Paul
Rex money so that he keeps podcasting because it's so such.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
High quality, it's so good. For sure. I did. I'm
not just telling you too. I did. Oh, you gave
him money? I gave him money this morning nice because
I was like, I want to tell people to do it,
but I want to be I need to walk the
walk ticket. Anyhow, I went on to cool interesting stuff
because I was like, Okay, I'm going to find I'm
going to be able to get something and get a
murder because oftentimes if I leave it till the day

(36:20):
of the story, it's the chronology that gets me. There's
so much information that you like, you know, you want
to pick a good one, but then there's just so
much stuff that you have to sit through and you
have to figure out the story you want and you
can't just read like a news report on it because
that's not interesting. You have to tell. I got the
same thing with mine this week, where it's like how
do I end this or how do I like make

(36:41):
this exciting towards the end or make it just yeah, yeah,
you have to you know, sorry, I don't know. You
have to work on your podcast, Like write a story
for your podcast seems bullshit. I'm like kind of annoyed.
I don't like it that much. Sorry? Sorry? Sorry? But
who said this was homwork? Who do you think this is?
Who do I think you are? So? Okay?

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Go on to Cool Interesting stuff dot com okay, which
also seems like an independently produced thing. It's all art,
it's all articles and things.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
It looks like somebody is doing it out of their den,
but someone's legitimately. Like I think this is cool and interesting? Yes,
love it? Is it even real?

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Who knows? So this is the story that I found
that I just love this. Uh, and this kind of
combines all my things.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
I'm so excited. It's called the carbon copy Murders. Have
you heard of it? No? What, I'm excited? Okay?

Speaker 2 (37:36):
So good, Okay, I just read it to you. So also,
Cool interesting stuff dot Com is the only source that
I can quote because there's no individual writers that I found, Like,
there was no individual writer on this article, and so
a lot of this article it's a chicken a.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Den let's just fall off the Sorry did he fall
asleep and then fall off the count? Uh? You're drunk.
It's probably one chicken her denight, yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
So if you work there or you know somebody, please
tell us who cool interesting stuff dot Com.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Tell us if you're working with Linda, give us your
last name, Lindo. We want to know Linda. We want
to support you. Okay. The carbon Copy murders.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
So on May twenty seventh, eighteen seventeen, at six point
thirty a m. A labor on his way to work
in Irdington, England. I'm sure that's how they pronounce it, Rnington.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
I'm sure that's tell the England. I'm sure that's how
the England. I don't know. I have you heard of it?

Speaker 2 (38:38):
He sees a pile of bloodstained clothes near Penn's mill
that we say, that is if it's somewhere, we know
what it's. Yeah, so he calls the police, or gets
the police because it's eighteen seventeen. He calls out for
the police please, and they search the area. They find
two sets of footprints, a big and a little, and

(39:02):
they follow them down to a flooded sand pit and
they then they drudge the sand pit and they find
the body of a local.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Girl named Mary Ashford.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Oh no, so they start the cops start asking around
and they find out the story of what she had
been doing the night before.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
So it was a holiday called whit Monday.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
And I looked it up, so it's basically it's a
Christian holiday fifty days after Easter. They kept calling it
on like the when I looked it up on Wikipedia
or whatever, they kept calling it Pentecost, which I'm like,
I don't know what this is, and I'm like, a
lifelong Catholic, I've never heard of this before.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
It doesn't exist if you don't know what it is.
Me the expert. So it's basically it sounds to.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Me like it's like a last day of May, I
mean the last day of the end of spring, kind
of before summer holiday. And it's on a Monday, so
it's basically an excuse to have a long weekend, even
back in eighteen seventeen. Yeah, And so that night they
were having a dance in Erdington for wit Monday. So

(40:19):
Mary she had traveled from Erdington, her hometown, to Birmingham
to sell dairy protus at the local market.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
That's like what she did for a living.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
And then she had plans to meet up with her
friend Hannah Cox. She was going to go to Hannah's
house change into her party dress. Then they were together
going to go to Whitsuntide. The Whitsuntide Dance is what
it was called for wit Monday. That was at the
Tyburn House Inn.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
That was that night.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
So she got to Hannah's house at six in the evening,
she changed into her new dress, and then they went
to the dance together.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
She's twelve twenty twenty. Oh that's a lot older. Okay,
it's like eight years old. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
So they at the dance, they have a great time.
She's very popular, well known girl, Mary is and so
they have lots of mail and Myers at the dance.
But for the most part she had spent the evening
in the company of a young bricklayer named Abraham Thornton.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Get that bricklayer. My grandfather was a bricklayer.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Okay, he was the president of the Bricklayers Union in
San Francisco.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
My gosh. Yeah, so that sound the two of them
together sounds like a fucking cover of a romance novel. Yeah, hot,
the Lady and the bricklayer. Hell yeah, that's a If
you lay bricks, then you also keep your shirt unbuttoned
to your navel. Definitely, it's like more like a bricks slayer.
I don't know. Something, there's something there, just like let

(41:48):
it like roll around in your moth. Minds her a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
So she's hanging out with Abe, her friend, Hannah is
hanging out with a guy named Benjamin Carter. So the
dance ends at midnight, and the foursome leave, and Hannah
and Benjamin are separated and Mary. So Hannah and Benjamin
go off this way and Mary and Abraham go off
in another.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Definitely leave your friend with the guy she doesn't know, right,
I mean, look it, they're at they're twenty. Yeah, they're
at a dance. Good times, great oldies. Now let's go
for a stroll in the lane. If you can't trust
the guy you just met, who can you druss?

Speaker 2 (42:26):
If you can't trust a fucking bricklayer, what kind of
world do we live in? Eighteen seventeen Englynd.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
So later on, it's like three point thirty in the morning,
Mary is seen walking toward back toward Hannah Cox's house,
and the witness tells the police that he noticed she
was walking very slowly and that she was alone at
Hannah's house. She takes off the new dress, changes back
into her work clothes, and tells Hannah, she's going to

(42:53):
go home.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
She says goodbye, leaves the house at.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Four am, and and she's only she's seemed too more
occasions that night.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Occasions.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
So that was a cut and paste word if you've
ever heard one. A man named Joseph Dawson testified that
he'd seen Mary in Bell Lane around four fifteen am.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
I mean they partied all night. Dude. That's like, I can't,
I can't do that. And that's two hundred years later. Well,
but she's twenty sure, and she's got that like a
milk a milk maid's constitution. Yeah, she's like, I'm selling
Dary all week. I want to party.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Yeah, Okay, he's Joseph Dawson sees her at four fifteen,
and then ten minutes later she was seen in the
same lane by a guy named Thomas Broadhurst.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
A lot of people out, yeah night. Well, because it's
that three it's that three day weekend, everyone's sure working
for Both witnesses say that she was alone when they
saw her. Okay, So when the police interview Abe Thornton,
the guy, they tell her that she has been murdered,

(44:01):
that probably by strangulation after being raped.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
He was in total shock. He told the detectives, I
can't believe she was murdered. I was with her until
four o'clock this morning. So the police believe him to
be sincere. He doesn't understand that he's the chief suspect
in this murder investigation. He's finally taken into custody and

(44:25):
they grill him about the night and the whole everything
that happened after they left the dance.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
He says that they did have sex, but he did
eighteen seventeen, they bomb They totally boned in a field.
Oh my god, it was better than less chemicals. They
had sex, but he denies, of course, that he raped
and murdered her. He actually states that.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
When Hannah and Ben peeled off, he and Mary strolled
hand in hand through a field over to a style
which is I don't know if you've ever watched like
a Jane Austen movie, but sometimes you know how like
they walk through fields. They're like, I'm going to go
over to that castle over there, and they just start walking. Well,
when you come to a fence, they used to build
in stairs into the fence with like a pole so

(45:15):
you could walk over the fence without the sheep getting
over the fence, so that was called a style.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
That was the standard thing. So they went over to sils,
sat down, started chatting, Oh my god, what's it like
to lay brick?

Speaker 2 (45:30):
It's like this, How's what is it really like selling milk?

Speaker 1 (45:34):
I'll tell you. Shut up, I'll tell you if you
just let me talk for one second.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
They talk for fifteen minutes, and then they go to
the green at Irdington, where Mary goes back into Hannah's
house to change out of the dress.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
She's in her nice dress and into her work clothes.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
He's waiting outside for her for a long time and
she doesn't come back out, so he goes home alone.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
That's his story.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
He and that story is backed up by three witnesses
who saw him standing there waiting for her. One was
a game keeper named John Hayden, who stood there and
talked to him for fifteen full minutes.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
So everybody's like, yeah, this, you.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Know clearly he did it, so clearly it's this piece
of shit.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
No, So basically the investigation stalls out because aside from
that like bit of action, there's nothing else that they
know about what Mary did that night, and no one
saw the two of them together after she went back
into Hannah's house. So they have a trial. Still, he's

(46:45):
arrested and he's and he's brought to trial, and that
trial was in August of that year at the Warwick
ass Size Court. No but fuck yeah, yeah, what is
yours side? We'll guess your weight and charge you with murder.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Your ass size doesn't look innocent, Okay, So hundreds of
people think he did it, So they're all standing outside
the court waiting for the guilty verdict.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Those are the good people.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Yeah, those are the murdering nos of eighteen seventeen. So
it turns out after six minutes of deliberation, the jury
came back and with the verdict not guilty. So in
modern English law, that verdict would have been final, but
in early nineteenth century an ancient law existed which enabled

(47:39):
Mary Ashford's brother William to appeal that verdict and demand
a second trial. And so the judge, Lord ellen Burgh,
he decides he allows Thornton to take advantage of an
archaic law called trial by battle the attem that's how

(48:01):
you know it's old. So basically that it means he
can renew his plea of not guilty by literally throwing a.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Gauntlet down from the dock. No yeah, so yeah, so
it's come on that.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
And by doing that, he is challenging William Ashford, Mary's brother,
who's the one who wants him.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
You know, he tried.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
He's challenging him to a fight to the death. Shut
the fuck up. Yeah, unless one of them surrenders or
is incapacitated during the fight.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Guys, guys, guys.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
So people to fight this because it's such an ancient
but it's basically.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Lord Ellenborough is like, this is this is the law
of England and it's allowed and so my god, can
you imagine today of like that thing. All right, well
there's a lot that says you can have a duel.
So yeah, so grab his axe and throw it on
the ground. It's in the law books.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
So uh, if Ashford accepts the challenge and wins, that
means Thornton will be executed immediately. But if Thornton wins,
then he's free and doesn't have to ever appear in
court again for this murder.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
So the murder of this guy, oh my god, oh.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
No, that one's like everybody knows that that's what he
signed up for. So so this guy does it.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
He's like, hell, yes, I'm in.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
So he throws the gauntlet down and uh, William Ashford
basically doesn't respond to Abraham Thornton's challenge and.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
So he gets off.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
So it's basically like one of those things where you
if you have a traffic ticket and you challenge it,
if the cop that gave you the ticket doesn't show
up in court, then you don't have to pay the ticket.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
So the brother was like, oh, I don't know the
trial and Abraham was like gauntlet and he was like,
you know what, I don't want to get killed.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
You're good because you're a big beefy bricklayer and you're
going to kick my ass.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
You're like walking off the cover of a romance novel. Yeah,
it's you're You're like, what's his name? Fabia? Thank you?
I don't say that because Vince jokes about Fabio all
the time, does he?

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Fabio was sitting behind our table at a sushi restaurant
once me and my friend karenaders in and so I
was staring at Fabio the entire dinner and I was like,
there's a celebrity behind you.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
You have to guess who did You will never not
believe it because she guessed people the entire dinner and
I was giving her clues. I was dream dinner conversation,
long hair romance. I was giving her every clue. She
never guessed it, and we had to wait until he
got up and walked out, and then she's like Fabio no, yeah.
I'd be like yeah, N will jokingly say like something

(50:44):
like you look great, Like I know Fabio is your type,
but like he always references, like when we're making out
and you close your eyes and think about Fabio, I don't.
He's your Yes, he's your male idea. Yeah, that's what
I think about. Okay.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
So essentially he he gets off, he never is going
to get tried again, and he ends up. It's such
a he's so known as everyone thinks he killed Mary
Ashford that he ends up emigrating to the United States
because he can't get a job as a bricklayer. So
exactly one hundred and fifty seven years later to the

(51:17):
hour after the discovery of Mary Ashford's body on Monday,
May twenty seventh, nineteen seventy five, which was also whit
Monday got laid on that holiday. Late on the same day,
one hundred and fifty seven years later, the body of
twenty year old Barbara Forrest was found dead in the

(51:39):
long grass of a ditch near Pipe Hayes Children's Home
where she worked as a nurse. She had been strangled
and raped. The bodies of both victims were found within
three hundred yards of each other.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
And later police arrested Michael Thornton, No, a Birmingham childcare
officer who worked at that same children's home where Barbara worked.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
So here's the similarities.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
They were both twenty, they look alike and their two
pictures one looks like an illustration of a Jane Austen
character and one is a straight on picture of a
very pretty, very young seventies gal. So you can't get
the profile thing, but they look alike. It's the same,
like small fine.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Features of two young women, essentially both pretty. They had
both visited their best friend on the evening of whit
Monday to change into a new dress for the local
dance party. They were both raped and then strangled, and
they were both That happened to them both at the
same time of day. Oh my god, same guy did

(52:48):
it then? Probably right? Yep, he was a time traveler.
That was just about that spot.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Ye, anyone who walked by that spot, he was gonna killt.
They were both, obviously both guys named fouron Jesus. In
both instances, the man named Thornton was charged then subsequently acquitted.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Wow, Mary Ashford and Barbara Forrest had this same birth date.
See not ready to move on yet? Okay, stop it
right fucking now. Now listen, this is from Cool Interesting
stuff dot Com. Clearly they're correct entitling their fucking website that.

(53:27):
Holy shit, it's if this is true all true, I
love it. It's so insane. If it's not, it's still
I still I still love the concept of that. But fuck,
I mean like this, because this could happen.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
That's just that thing of like if a hundred monkeys,
you know, are typing a typewriter, Like, it's that kind
of thing. But it's but it's also then it brings
in my favorite kind of a culty thing, which which
is could something else be involved or whatever?

Speaker 1 (53:57):
I love it. Here's the other similarity.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
A week before Mary Ashford was murdered, she told her
friend Hannah Cox's mother that she had bad feelings about
the week to come, but she didn't know what it meant.
She didn't have any specifics on that, and ten days.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Before Barbara Forrest was raped and strangled, she told a
colleague a work this is going to be my unlucky month.
I just know it.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Don't ask me why carbon copy murders ladies. Yeah, isn't
that insanity?

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Oh my god, Coucy twine. But you're saying that with
your leg up in the air. Sorry with I just
I am splayed open. I mean, can it change at
that end? I can see you're embarrassing. Stephen. Sorry, Stephen
is flat face, flat on the I think he passed out.

(54:50):
You're right, he's passed out. Shit, we killed Stephen killed Stephen? Ooops,
well you're coachy killed Stephen. Oh man, ma't be the
first time. I don't know what it doesn't make any sense.
That was amazing. I'm creepy and fucked up, insane. Thank you,
thank regaling me, Thank you, Paul Rex, Thank you Linda

(55:11):
from Cool Interesting Things dot Com or Linden Linden or Linda.
That's it. So here's one that's been in my drafts,
like since the beginning of this podcast, because I've always
loved this story. Okay, but there's never like a good
closure to it because it's only five years ago. But
I always kind of look it up and see what's new,

(55:33):
and so finally I'm ready to do it. So this
is the Anissy shootings. Okay, all right, go ahead and
give credit right now to Sean Flynn who wrote this
like five part GQ article about it. That's really great.
But it hasn't been I think it's from a couple
of years ago. So there's but I but he helped
me a lot, so thank you.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
All right.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
September fifth, twenty twelve, on the secluded route, Ready for
this flora. Stay do Monilier de la Combe the Iri. Wow, Nope,
not getting close near the southern end. Cue the fucking
correction's corner near the southern end of Lake Annisey in France. Okay,

(56:14):
it's a small, serene city. It's about six hour drive
from Paris. And a man named Brett Martin was out
riding his bike, cycling up this beautiful hill and as
he crossed a river bridge and continued up the hill,
a little girl came stumbling into the road and collapsed
in front of her family's car that was parked on
the side of the road. Seven year old Zanob al

(56:38):
Hillie had been shot in the shoulder and she had
been pistol whipped. He stops at the scene and inside
of ze Knob's family car, the family BMW had a
camper attached was the dead bodies of her father Sai
Al Hilly He's a fifty year old satellite engineer, his

(56:59):
wife i she's a forty seven year old dentist, and
Nick Ball's mother, Suhail Suhial she's seventy four, and each
have been shot twice in the head. Inside the car,
Oh the family was in the area on vacation from
their home in Claygate, Surrey, England, and they were on

(57:19):
their way for a walk in the woods, just a
random venture into the woods. And also on the scene
outside the car was the dead body of a local cyclist,
Sylvan Malier. He's forty five. He's been shot five times,
twice in the head. The car was stopped in a
way that investigators were able to tell that prior to

(57:41):
the shooting, the BMW had like reverse sharply the driver
was sayed into the lay by so in reverse like
trying to get you turn and get the fuck out
of there. The wheels had gotten stuck in the gravel
and as they try to make a get away, so
the car had gotten stuck there. The car is still

(58:03):
running the it's in neutral, but someone is just jammed
on the gas pedal, so it's just revving up. All
the doors are locked with the three dead bodies inside.
Police said that the shooter had originally been in the
woods but had come out into the road to kill everyone.
So relice come. They're investigating the whole thing. They cordon

(58:26):
off the area. Eight hours later, as they're still investigating
the whole scene and the bodies had still been in
the car, a specialist forensic investigator finds four year old
Zana Zana. She's the youngest daughter of the all Hilly family,
hiding beneath her dead mother's legs and skirt in the

(58:49):
back of the car. No unharmed, So she had been
hiding that whole time, including the eight hours where they
were trying to figure out what happened. They had seen
one child's seat in the car, and they had one
child at the scene. Yeah, can you fuck you imagine that?
Poor medical investigator.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
I think she's opening the door or she's opening the door.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Or finally removing the body, oh after like photographing everything.
Four year old.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
I just was at my friend's house today and he's
his three year old came home while we were leaving.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
I yeah, okay, sorry. So so clues at the scene
point to a lone killer who had already been near
the layby when the all Hilly family arrived, and they
had been in a seemingly random drive. Again, like I said,
they came from their campsite that was by Lake Annisey,
which is like this fucking gorgeous town. The local cyclist Molier,

(59:51):
he was also on a totally random ride on a
route that he had never taken before, so the whole
thing seemed random. It was speculated by the whole scene
that the al Khali family had been tart the target
of the whole thing, and that they were shot first.
And the cyclist happened on the scene and was killed

(01:00:12):
as a result of being in the wrong place at
the wrong time, so he just showed up, and that
eyewitnesses said that neither the car or the cyclist was
being followed. So there's another dude. The dude who came
upon the scene was coming up the road had gotten
passed by both that other cyclist and the car and
was like nobody was following them. Oh, so he was
like the slower cyclist Yeah yeah, and he like found that,

(01:00:35):
he says, he got to the scene, he's like suddenly
putting together what happened as he's trying to help the
girl and then he's like, well, I'm about to get
shot like he yeah, he says in this documentary that
I saw I was like, well, I wonder what it's
going to be feeling. It's going to feel like to
get shot by because he was positive, yeah, because it's
just it just happened because he had seen them all right.

(01:00:56):
Motives quickly are thrown it out by the media who
fucking freak out about this case, both in England and
in France. So both the Sayd and Sylvian worked in
the nuclear in nuclear industry jobs. Moyer at one of
the largest suppliers of nuclear components in the world, and
al Hali in the past as in Iraqi in Iraq

(01:01:17):
as an engineer on sensitive topics and currently in the
UK involved in nuclear and satellite technology, and there was
sensitive files down on his computer at work. So it
was hypothesized that this was a hit on one or
both of them, that they had intelligence that the government
or another fucking place wanted them silenced for. And maybe

(01:01:40):
one of them got in the wrong time, they're at
the wrong time, or they were like working together, who knows.
Then two European newspapers cited anonymous German intelligence sources reporting
that Sayad's late father had smuggled cash out of Iraq
for Saddam Hussein and stashed it in a Swiss bank account,

(01:02:03):
But it was soon found that Sylvian Moliere was on
a three year leave of absence from his job and
he was just a welder at the nuclear plant. That's
the cyclist. Yeah, okay, and he didn't have access to
anything that would be interest to criminals, nor did Sayid
have access to any classified secrets or anything satellite related
that would be of interest to any terrors cel. But

(01:02:25):
of course the fucking media had gone crazy and we're like,
this is why they this whole family got killed, is
because terror, right, some kind of tale. And then while
Sayad's late father, the guy who they said had money
in Iraq, he did leave cash when he died in
twenty eleven in a Swiss bank account. It was had
no ties to se what I'm saying, it was much
less than they assumed it was going to be, so

(01:02:46):
it really wasn't any connection. The next suspect that the
media and investigators targeted was Zayed al Hili, who's the
older brother of Sayed. The brothers they hadn't spoken in
almost a year except through solicitors aka lawyers, that's what
we call lawyers in their right, and they were sorting

(01:03:07):
through their late father's estate, so they hadn't spoken in
a year because it was really like crazy and fucking stressful.
So like there was a fight about money and who
had inheritance, which everyone's like, oh, well, clearly, there you go.
There was the money in the Swist bank account, there
was the house. There was a house, a small studio

(01:03:27):
in Spain, and they were fighting over it. But Zaid
insisted that they were being civil about it though, and
insisted that there was no actual feud, which seems hard
to believe, right. He even defended his brother against the
suspicion that he was a spy and said the amount
of money was much smaller than was rumored. But on Friday,
September twenty eighth, the police came to his flat with

(01:03:51):
a search warrant. All the houses near his flat were
evacuated and the Royal Logistics Corps bombed as a unit
was summoned. So like they freaked everyone out in the neighborhood.
They were like, we got this guy. What year was this?
This is two thousand and twelves? Oh okay, okay, yeah,

(01:04:11):
twenty twelve. Still, so they're evacuated, made a big scene.
They said that there was something suspicious and these are
like these I feel like these European like trade mags
like this or like gossip mags, like go crazy with
whatever they have. They're the same way we do, but
in this way that's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Like no, they're they're insane, right the sun you mean
like those magazines, They're insane.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
They're horrible, right. Yeah. So this was like a big
story in there, so anything that they got they would
put on there, including that there was quote something suspicious
potentially hazard found in his house. Can I just say
one thing really quick?

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
So do you hear about the Grenfeld Towers, which was
that huge apartment building that burned and was basically burned
because it was like I islum lords didn't there were
no fire extent were sure as they were in it,
and then there was lots of complaints and no one
did anything, and so many people died. A firefighter who

(01:05:08):
had to go in and fight that fire posted a
picture of his helmet on social media and all these
people were like, it was like going into help or
you know whatever or something, and somebody from the Sun
I believe, replied, do we have permission to use this
picture for our newspaper? And the firefighter wrote back, not
for that shit rag, and everybody was retweeting it and

(01:05:30):
faving it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Oh my god. I think it's like people.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Because those they have such an influence the way people
see things, and they act like it's like, look, people
need to hear the story. But it isn't like the story.
It's just this weird biased well they have.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Like quoted sources, but there you don't know who those
sources are. Those sources haven't been confirmed as being correct exactly.
And it's like this thing of well, if I don't
put this story out and it turns out to be true,
if I don't do it first, someone else gets to
it and there's no fucking point of me putting it out.
So I'm going to put it out now and hope
it's true. Yeah, and then I'll go back and fix
it if I need to, or I'll put up the

(01:06:06):
next story and yeah. They don't play by actual journalism rules,
which is you can't quote a source that you don't
if you're not Like it's there's certain phrasing that they use,
I just read a thing about this, or they use
this phrasing that basically just means anyone could have said this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
It could be like they could turn to somebody in
the next cube yeah and be like, hey, do you
think this, and they'd be like a source says yeah
or whatever. There's certain buzzwords that you can look up, which.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
Is so the frustration we can go on about that
it's over twenty four hour news is that like you
don't have a chance to really research anything if you
need to get something out immediately, well, and everybody else
depends on that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
We're trusting these sources, these these like all these news
stations as if they are when so many times we've
seen in the past couple of years they'll go with
a whole story based on a tweet. Yeah, And it's
like we as a person that's on Twitter all the time,
it's bullshit, like the yet that you would base anything
on a tweet that could be from anyone doing anything

(01:07:04):
for any reason.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Our boy riz Ahmed actually tweeted something about that where
he's like, you hear so much about Muslim terror, but
when all apparently so many Muslim people ran into Grenfell
Tower to try to save people from that building, and
you don't know, you don't see any headlines about that.
That drives me crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
All of those you hear about all like this thing
that happened, but you didn't hear about this, you know,
this bombing in fucking you know, some town that we
don't or some city in Iraq that we don't.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Care about because someone's decided we don't have to care.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
About, right, right, even though it's also innocent fucking people
getting killed too. Yeah, So okay, well sorry, such An,
I think it's important that we talked about that. So
they said that they found something potentially hazardous in the house,
and they found in the garden shed behind the house,
which is so ominous and like where you make bombs,
probably shit right fertilized, right right. The police never announced

(01:08:03):
what it was, but it turned out to not be
dangerous and it said that they found just a taser
which was illegal to have. But despite them not finding anything,
on June and June twenty thirteen, he was arrested. This
is the brother for conspiracy to commit murder, but he
only spent one night in jail and was never arrested again.

(01:08:26):
So also the cyclist who happened upon the scene was
ruled out as a suspect as well. Other motives that
have been thrown around are the involvement of the sas
which I had to look up, Special Air Services of
the British Army, CIA, Israeli Intelligent Intelligence, Iraqi agents, Saddam
Hussein loyalists. It was determined that the bullets and by

(01:08:47):
the bullets in them and the gun part of the
gun handle that broke off when the murderer pistol whipped
this fucking seven year old girl who survived and is
okay now, so we can calm down that it was
a seven point six millimeter Luger manufactured between nineteen oh

(01:09:08):
nine and nineteen forty seven, and it's type of gun
that was issue just Swiss Army reservists in the nineteen
twenties and thirties. So a fucking like really rare gun. Yeah.
Then the other thing was that there was a connection.
So the ickball the wife, she who died, she then

(01:09:29):
it came out, was secretly married, had a first secret
husband in America that they kind of died, you know,
they not died. They married for a green card. It
wasn't about anything. The husband didn't even know, it turned out,
so he didn't even know. That same day that she
got killed, he died a heart attack. The husband in America. Yeah,

(01:09:50):
he had a heart issue and then drove into a
tree and died.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
Uh huh Nope right, no, same day Nope, but it's
later ruled out as a coincidence.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Okay, well, what do you think happened then? That it's
someone got Michael Clayton. They just stuck a needle in
his neck or some weird thing that and then he
crashed into a tree.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
So she's a dentist. What if she like implanted some
like little thing in there, like as soon as she
if I ever die, you're going to die too, Like
if my heart stops feeding, Oh like it was her thing. Yeah,
like if my heart stops beating, that thing and your
cheese are never you can never have me killed? Or
what if they were just really in love, or what
if they just died in the same day, or what

(01:10:34):
if hold on, there's five more. That's that's what this
whole fucking story is. This is a fucking major When
you first said it, I was like, I know what
this is? Yea? And now I have no idea? You
know what can we d at this end? Stephen? I
meant to say at the banning, you ready for a
hardcore murder mystery? I fucking totally meant to say that
to get y'all amped, and I fucking forgot to.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Let's start over. No, just keep just plow ahead. You
can do this, Karen, It's already happening. Are you ready
for a hardcore murder mystery?

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Great? Next suspect halfway through? Yeah, well now I'm ready here.
Now it gets deep, Okay, okay. Patrice Mengaldo, So, the
sister of the cyclist who died at the scene, told
police that she was in an on again, off again
seven year relationship with an ex foreign French Foreign Legion

(01:11:23):
sniper named Patrice Mengaldo. He had been given just a
standard interview as a witness because he was a local
but he was not a suspect, but then he wasn't
a suspect. Twenty one months after the killing, leaves a
suicide note saying he couldn't handle being considered a suspect
and shoots and kills himself. What yeah, not being he

(01:11:46):
wasn't a suspect. He said he can't handle being a suspect,
considered a suspect, which he wasn't, and he was a
fucking sniper, right right then? Okay me? Michel Michel Heckt.
In twenty sixteen, retired police captain turned private detective Pascal

(01:12:08):
Hutch who I want to fucking hang out with. He
tipped investigators off to this nineteen eighty six murders of
school teachers Paul Bellian, who was twenty nine and Lorraine Galsby,
twenty eight, of Derbyshire. So these two school teachers, these
like sweet bavy angels. They're fucking engaged and shit, they're

(01:12:28):
on a cycling holiday holiday when they fucking disappeared. Their
bodies are later found in a shallow grave in a
May's field in Brittany. That's corn corn aka corn. They
had been bound back to back gag and they had
been shot with a hunting rifle, and the case had

(01:12:49):
been unsolved for almost thirty years, and the French detective
thought that the similarities were really interesting. And in fact,
the mother of Lorraine, the girl, the young woman who
had died, said that the moment she heard about the
murders in Annecy, she thought the cases were linked because
there were so many similarities. Wow. Yeah. The main suspect
in those murders was is fifty three year old Belgian

(01:13:11):
Michael Hecht. What's m I c h L Michel? Isn't
that Michael Michael Michael, mister Hecht. Where you can Michel
from Michel Michael Michael?

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
My edit that Steven, Well, I can't remember now, in
like I can't remember in French class that what they
probably didn't teach you that. I think Michael in French
as Michelle.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Right, Yeah, okay, Well, he had been jailed in two
thousand and eight, the second dude trying to for trying
to kill his own family whoa He shot at his brother,
sister in law and their baby, and they none of
them died, but they had all been injured. He so
he had been in jail in two thousand and eight,

(01:13:59):
and he had been let out of jail for that
ten months later because and I don't understand this, he
had already been on remand for three years. I mean
maybe he had already spent three years in jail, so
they let him out. I don't think, I know. Sounds
insane for the same Oh so they're like, look, you've
done your time, yeah, for almost trying to kill your
whole family, including a baby. Okay, So hect allegedly he

(01:14:24):
confessed to the killings of the school teachers while he
was in jail to a dude who was there, but
the judge ruled it inadmissible and the DNA from that
murder was lost. So he now lives in France the
fuck because it's like, what does it look like vasis mosis? Yeah,

(01:14:47):
that sounds good, okay, And it's two hours from Annissy.
That's where he lives now, okay. Okay. So they noted
that the shooter had fired twenty one times, mostly at
this vehicle that was moving. Seventeen bullets hit people. Out
of twenty one, not one of those bullets hit the
frame or the doors, or the fenders or any other

(01:15:08):
part of a moving car. Eight of them were head shots. Shit.
So it made investigators think that it was a professional. Yeah,
two in the head, which is the way special apps
and assassined are trained to do. So it's kach of
them got two in the fucking head. He didn't hit
the car, Like, can you imagine we would just be
like shooting the sun. Well yeah, well even a person

(01:15:33):
that probably like is a hunter has experience you a
moving car, yeah, shit yeah, and then like one guy
in the front seat, two people in the backseat. Okay,
So anyways, it's been five years since the murder. The
brother of said was asking is it now asking He's

(01:15:55):
like in it still, He's like, I didn't fucking do it.
He's kind of a bad ass. He's like, I didn't
fucking do it. Fuck all of you, No, I'm not
coming in for more questioning because you have no you
don't know what you're doing. I think the French police
don't want it to be a French suspect. The English
police don't want to be in English aspects, so no
one's working together and this is awful, and so he's
asking for a review from the British High Court judge.

(01:16:19):
He thinks the French police know who committed the murders,
and that the dead cyclist, Sylvian Molaire, was the target,
and that his brother and his family were in the
wrong place at the wrong time. So finally, and this
is what I think fucking happened personally. On February eighteenth,
twenty fourteen, a forty eight year old local man was
arrested and made after a sketch is shown and made

(01:16:45):
public of a bearded man who had been seen in
the area on a motorcycle that same day. Ooh, so
when the cyclist is riding up the hill tend to
find this fucking murder, he sees a cycle going down
the other way. Oh and this person had never come
forward even though it was a big case obviously any witnesses.

(01:17:05):
So they have a sketch composite of him. They finally
fucking release it two years later. It's a bearded man
and a motorcycle helmet, and they find a dude who
they're not naming, who bears a striking similarity. It's a
forty eight year old man Between the photos. He drives
a motorcycle. They searched his home and found a quote

(01:17:29):
cachet of vintage weapons, including a lugar handgun. Although it's
not the same one that killed the families. The family
he had been a police officer but had been dismissed
recently before the murders in June because of anger issues. Oh,
so he was released without charge after questioning. So what

(01:17:50):
I think happened? And it's so fucking annoying because nobody
wants to believe this. What's the simplest answer, fucking road rage?
Oh they cut them off, cut him off or the
reason there was no there's no reason given why they
would have pulled into the turnoff to begin with, you
know where they had to make the U turn to
go and try to go the other way where they
got stuck and killed. There's no reason given why they

(01:18:10):
would have done that. So perhaps they they were speeding
or someone was speeding and almost hit each other, and
so he veers off the road into this turnoff where
they pull over to be like talk about it. Okay,
maybe they're both fucking angry people and reyelling at each other. Yeah,
and then the cyclist comes on the scene at the
exact time he starts to kill the family. Whoa road rage?

(01:18:35):
I mean, not that is very viable.

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
Does that seem yes? Or but I think this was.
Do you want to hear my vers first?

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
Fucking always?

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
Yeah, thank you, Well just from the beginning. And also,
this sounds really familiar. You haven't done this one before? No,
it sounds so familiar. I feel like I've seen it.
You probably heard me think about it. I bet you've
told me about it, Like yeah, personally, but but I

(01:19:05):
but maybe I just saw it on like yeah, it's
not Yeah, it's not a lot of them because I
think the fact that the cyclist who was murdered has
more gunshot wounds. Yeah, to me, it's like that's the
that's the anger one, and that's the he's the target,
and then the other ones were wrong place, one wrong time,

(01:19:26):
and he's just getting rid of witnesses. And if he's
some kind of a creepy psychopath, it's not like he's going,
oh no, it's a family or anything. He's like, take
out those witnesses, take out children, pistol whip a seven
year old, whatever the fuck his deal is.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
Well, here's what And I think you have a really
good point, which is that the cyclist is the one
exposed and he still gets seven gunshot wounds. Yeah, two
people in the car are in a car and only
get two.

Speaker 3 (01:19:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
And the other thing is that the dad and the
daughter who got pistol whip were outside of the car
when the shootings happened, so for some reason they were
talking to either cyclist or the killer. But the other
thing is they didn't ever mention anything in the police
report about there being motorcycle tracks anywhere. Oh so this
whole time I thought it was like a sniper in
the woods. But you know, maybe they are motorcycle tracks

(01:20:14):
that are keeping secret or something like that for investigation purposes.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
Maybe he knows, like if just say he was responsible
for the one the cyclists who were murdered thirty years before,
he has a real good system. He knows, you know,
like he peels out in a certain way where it
covers his track, or just something where he doesn't park
in dirt, he doesn't park in an indented, indentable surface
or something like that. Also, here's this, why would a

(01:20:44):
father let his seven year old get out of the
car to talk to a road rage situation like that
would be a classic stay in the car. I will
take care of that totally. So that doesn't totally. It
could be the thing of like, oh, what does that
man have over you know what I mean? It's so
innocent or even like we're lost, can you help us?
And it's just some fucking psychopath like they were a

(01:21:05):
fucking ran I mean, and if they're Arabic, he could
be a fucking racist piece of shit.

Speaker 1 (01:21:11):
It could be a racist piece of shit for sure
as a psycho.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
But why do you shoot this the guy that comes
upon the scene five times, the or the secondary person,
the non family car person as why host a couple
times as opposed to the two clean kill shots to
the head, which this guy can do in a moving car,
so he clearly can do it to.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Guy on a bike.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
Yeah, why does that guy get three more extra? What
doesn't make sense? Ye're right, I don't know that just
there's something to that. Yeah, Also he doesn't It sounds
like he did the family last because he didn't stick
around to finish off the seven year old or know
that the four year old.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
Was in the car. He ran out of bullets, which
is why he pistol with the seven year old. It
sounds like she got shot pretty early on in the shoulder,
so maybe he was panicking. Then she got pistol whipped
right before he left. Okay, who the fuck? Yeah, yes,
can beat a seven year old with a gun? Yeah? Yeah,

(01:22:12):
because they couldn't kill her. And the other thing is
that maybe the reason he shot and had to make
sure that the cyclist was killed first was because he's
the one who had the easiest getaway a bike. Yeah,
not if that guy was on a motorcycle, right, true,
I mean yes to me, Okay, to me, it's this,

(01:22:35):
go with me on this, let's do it. I'm here,
I'm there.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
The the people are already parked at the turn thing.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
What do you call that layout? Layout? They called it
a layobout, But it's like for us, it's like like
to let someone pass you a shoulder, shoulder, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
They're pulled over because they're like, look, we're gonna go
look to go down and look at the river. We're
gonna take a picture, a family picture, some whatever something,
some nature thing. They hear something, and it's like, everybody,
get in the car, we got to get out of here.
Then the motorcycle and the cyclist situation comes up and

(01:23:14):
boom boom boom boom boom, like it all kind of
culminates in front of the car, and that maybe they're
all ducked down in the car like stay quiet or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
And they are panicking to get the fuck out of there. Yes,
in the car in such a way that and I
hated to fucking mention this. And the cyclist is dead
like by the time he hits the ground, but they
kind of dragged him a little bit because they rolled
over him. Yeah, like they were in such a hurry
to get they were freaking out to get out of there,
which means they were killed. Second, yeah, okay, oh yeah, yeah,

(01:23:54):
And there was on the on this on side's foot
on the bottom of shoe was the cyclist's blood, so
he was definitely out of the car at some point.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Oh okay, okay, sorry, god, no, no, no, no, this
is I mean, this couldn't have more details than it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
It couldn't be more involved.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
So that basically is like what if it's this That
family's coming down out of the woods on the on
the cross the street or whatever their ship is in
the lay about they come upon as they're walking.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
They're not walking though, because this first cyclist that came
upon them remembers them passing him at like like recently
they passed him, so they pulled into that lay about
like like pretty quickly before they got killed. Okay, So okay,
so it was they weren't off. Maybe they pulled over.

(01:24:44):
The daughter had to pee, that's why they're both out
of the car, him and his daughter too. Maybe why
doesn't the mother go that's weird? Yeah, especially seven year old? Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (01:24:59):
Oh so if it's okay, Also, what happens fast if
they come up on say it's a guy on a
motorcycle holding a.

Speaker 1 (01:25:06):
Gun on a cyclist. Oh and they pull over like
this is bad because it's the guy who likes to
kill cyclists. Yeah, so he has some weird it's say
it's a cyclist's serial killer. They come upon the act.
The only thing is you wouldn't get out of the car. Well,
they wouldn't have pulled over. Probably, yeah, they would have

(01:25:28):
like gunned it for the police. But if he was
still alive, they may have because it's like, I'm a
guy with a gun with your family in the car. Yeah,
I don't even know if I would do that. I
would just fucking drive full force into the gunman. But
what if the guy but what if the guy you
would then become your I would probably do that knowing
nothing about it. You're like, I'm probably just gonna kill

(01:25:48):
this guy, but it's the other guy who's the killer.
And they're like, thanks for killing the other person. We're
making a short film. What are you doing. There's a
camera next to the motors.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
The cameraman is just like a sniper up in the
Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
Yeah, dude, this one's always you know, I love cold
cases and unsolved shit, and this one is just like,
this is exactly why. It's just like, I just don't
think it's the complicated answers. And if there are, if
it is one of them, they're very you could see
them being the right answer. Those two suspects are you know,

(01:26:23):
it's definitely not the fucking not that they're engineers and
they had government secrets, and it's not the brother. I
really really don't think so well.

Speaker 2 (01:26:31):
I mean, I feel like they would have if they
found something at the brother's house, everyone would know about
it because that would be victory. And they would have
if they could have, they would have pinned anything on
that brother that would have lived in court.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
And obviously, if there's nothing there, there's nothing there. And
he made a really good point himself and he's like
he's kind of happy to talk to the news all
the time. He's one of those guys. Yeah, but he
was like, if someone were if they were going to
actually be a sniper and a hit on my brother,
they why would they kill him in another country with
his entire family. They would have killed him him two
shots at the head while he was leaving work or

(01:27:03):
like out and about. They wouldn't have This is such
a messy, fucking kill. Yeah, it's not that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
And the kid to kill the whole family like for
government secrets. Yeah, unless it's I mean sometimes they do
that with killing the main guy. It sounds yes, exactly right,
it's like a mafia thing of like, yeah, it's not
that because everybody goes everybody there is murdered and but
one person is overkilled. Yeah, it's very interesting that thing

(01:27:31):
of like the very clean military two shots to the head.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
And two and it's it's such it's like one of
the women were shot in the forehead, like it's so exact.
They're like a good shoot, yeah, shoot, a good shoot.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
And also that they're not ducking like obviously they're sitting there.

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
And was the little daughter already under her mom's legs.
I bet you that she the mother was like get
under here. You know, she probably saw what was happening
outside the car, had great instincts jammed her under there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
Maybe even did it just like the beginning of you
pull up and there's weird Yeah, some weird vibe happening,
and it's like get over here by me. Yeah you
know that kind of Oh man, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:28:20):
So the story is that the the brother still sees
his niece's Zanib. The older daughter had been shot. She
made a full recovery and she and her younger sister, Zina.
They now live in England with their maternal aunt and uncle,
and the older daughter says she doesn't remember most of

(01:28:40):
the attack. They're like trying to get her to remember it,
only that. She says that there was only one bad man,
and she remembers her father screaming to get in the car.
That's why she out of the car. I don't know
that's the Anniscene shootings. That means that he was in
the car. No, he was out of the car. Get
in the car. Yeah, out of the car, get in

(01:29:01):
the let's get in the car, like, get in the car.
So maybe she did run out to pee. Yeah, and
he and he Yeah, he just got out. Good God.
I know that's we're going to find out. I feel
like we're going to find out and have an update
on this. It's so intense.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
It's also that frustrating thing of like somebody say you,
I don't remember you said what like nationality they were
or they were from Iraq. So things like that happen,
and people are victimized by a killer, but it suddenly
goes into yeah victimly, yes you're a terrorist, Yeah, what

(01:29:38):
did you do? What secrets did you steal?

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:29:40):
Whatever?

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Anytime a fucking Muslim gets killed, it's because what did
you do? What terror cell? Did you belong to? Where? No?

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
Also think of like how many people not people I know,
but like how many people have jobs where you could
kind of connected back to something.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Everybody has secrets.

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
Everybody has something mysterious in their life or in their
past that you that if you choose to look at
that and blow it up, Yeah, that you could.

Speaker 1 (01:30:11):
I mean Jesus, that's the thing. And this is what
we talked about earlier. It is just that the racial
profiling will never make it fair to any of any
kind of racial profiling no matter what it is, it's like,
it's never going to make it fair to fucking to
it's ever going to get you answers. No, it's uh. Well,
the main problem with it is there is we all

(01:30:32):
suffer from implicit bias because our brain makes decisions for us.
It's old, it's reptilian, but it's that thing where you
have to decide are you safe or not and why,
and that implicit bias. Culturally, we have been told for
years people of a certain ilk, people of a certain
color are dangerous. That's the messaging. And that is even different.

(01:30:56):
Just mean we don't even know how to We don't
know how to what's called anticipate what their actions are
going to be because we don't know who they are
and they're different somehow when really they're just humans. Yes. Well,
and it's that you've seen the video of like the
white boy with an AK forty seven in the middle
of the street and the cops are like put the
gun down, to the gun down, and they wait and
they talk to him, and it goes on and fucking

(01:31:17):
on and everything, and they finally get the gun away
from him. That's because they look at that person.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
That looks like them, and they're like, this is fine,
we can handle that threat. Meanwhile, you've got a person
who is a registered gun over gun owner who pulls
over and there is a child in the car, and
they fucking shoot shoot into a car.

Speaker 1 (01:31:39):
Seven times, like thirty seconds after he gets pulled over,
thirty seconds after he's pulled over, and the fucking cop
gets acquitted. Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
I mean, the only good part about it not that
there's a good part about that murder. The good part
about the world we live in now, and as hard
as it is to live in the world we live
in now, is just like after uh, you know, this
is a it's gonna sound bad when I first say it,
but like after a facial when all of a sudden
you're so broken out that it's insane, pulls all the

(01:32:14):
shit up.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
It's the same fucking thing is.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
For years people said to black people there's no such
thing as racial profiling. There's not no you don't get
pulled over. As I get, it's all the same, all
lives matter, bullshit.

Speaker 1 (01:32:28):
Nobody can say. I mean, people will say that still,
they'll insist. But I think more and more people are
waking up to the fact, this is an undeniable truth
about a large swath of our population who are pinpointed
and victimized because of the way they look.

Speaker 2 (01:32:45):
And not just victimized like somebody was rude to me.
They're fucking being murdered in the street.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
And murder is the murders the word. It's not. It's murdering. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
I remember telling my sister and I were talking about it,
and I was like, I just read a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:33:02):
I don't want to Uh. He was. He was. He's
the lunch man.

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
At a school, and I know he knew all the allergies,
the kids who had allergies, he knew them.

Speaker 1 (01:33:12):
He made sure that they didn't get that food y no,
like peanut allergy or whatever. Like.

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
He just this idea that we're just taking out people
based based on and and it's the uh uh.

Speaker 1 (01:33:26):
Some there's a really good quote of the the bad
cops should be afraid of the good cops and not
the other way around.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
It's this thing of not all cops are this way,
but the ones that are, we have to stop saying
that's okay that they are. If you're trained, the training
needs to be such that you don't just murder people
because you're scared.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
Right, And even if the guy was a fucking drug
dealer and not a fucking school teacher or the lunch guy,
it's like he still can't fucking I can't murder people
with out any just cause, right, It's that yeah, man,
because you you're having a reaction, right, because you're scared,
because you're not a human in the fucking world. Let's

(01:34:15):
sit here tonight and saw this. Yeah, let's sit here.
It's so frustrating.

Speaker 2 (01:34:20):
And also just the person we're talking about is Philander
Castile who was murdered. Yeah, and so we should say
that name.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
Yeah. Uh, you know, Let's stop murdering each other.

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
Yeah, ironically enough, let's stop murdering.

Speaker 1 (01:34:35):
Let's have the good people like us staven be in
charge like us suck No, are you crazy? We're's such
good people? All right? Well, do you have anything fucking
positive in this? You go now? I'm mad? Oh no, Okay, Well,
so I am trying to stay off social media, and

(01:34:55):
I especially because I haven't sew yet and it's really
fucked up and it makes it makes the worst when
I read stuff. So it's all bad news. It's just
all bad news. So I'm trying to read more because
I really love reading, and it's I've realized it's just
become this thing that I don't fucking do anymore because
I'm so like reading a book. Yeah, reading a book,
which is like one of my fucking joys in life,
aside from cats. So I found two now, which I'm

(01:35:20):
really excited about, and so I'm like to which I
never do this. I'm like toggling between them because one's
spooky and creepy and one's like not so the two
I'm reading right now. We talked about this. She did
a story on one of our minisodes, but it's called
Startup by Dori Schaffrier. It's I like just started reading

(01:35:42):
it and I'm like more than halfway done. It's so
fucking good. It's about like these fucked up tech people
in the modern world, and what will make you want
to do is like not ever look at your phone again.
So it's really helpful. It's a novel or yeah, based
on it's a novel, and it's like it's like millennial
techies and New York and how and it's these different

(01:36:02):
stories about each of them, and it's just like it
makes you glad for who you are anyways.

Speaker 2 (01:36:07):
And this is she's married to Matt Myira. Yes that's
how I know who she.

Speaker 1 (01:36:11):
I've never met her, yeah, but I know her husband.
And she's like a senior tech editor at BuzzFeed for years.
So she's like, this book is clearly like really well done.
It's it's really fucking intriguing and good and I love it.
And then the creepy, fucking scary one that I'm totally
I can't read that lake because I'm scared is called, uh,
it's called Black Mad Wheel, and it's by Josh Mallerman,

(01:36:34):
which is actually a friend of Vince's from Michigan, and
he wrote this incredible book called The bird Box that's
creepy and fucked up in post apocalyptic and this one's
Black Mad Wheel and it's fucking creepy and it's about
like this noise that the government comes to like make
this dude who's a musician find out where the noise
is coming from, because it's like making nuclear shit not

(01:36:55):
work anymore. And it's just like super spooky. Ooh yeah,
that's awesome. So fucking reading and getting out of this
is making is helping me. That's good.

Speaker 2 (01:37:05):
Yeah, that's very good. What about you the positive thing?
Oh well, this is okay. I will say it this way.
So I one night, and we've talked about the podcast,
I crashed my car as I was leaving our recording totaled.

Speaker 1 (01:37:22):
I totaled the old Honda fit it got totaled. You
didn't total it. Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:37:28):
It was in a car accident that then totaled the
because it was relatively worthless. If only dog hair was
worth money, would have been the most expensive car in
Los Angeles, but not the case. So since that time,
and I think that was last November December, it was
a long time ago, I haven't had a car.

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
So I've been like taking lyft and taking over and
just doing whatever for a while at a rental car,
and I was spending so much money a week, like
an idiot, like whatever. Well, I finally called my sister
because then I started researching cars and car prices and
which ones are reliable whatever, And then it got worse,
so overwhelming.

Speaker 2 (01:38:08):
Then I could not make a decision, and I was like,
but I'm not a BMW person, but I don't want
to buy. I don't want to spend a bunch of
money on a kind of mediocre whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:38:18):
Finally I called my.

Speaker 2 (01:38:19):
Sister because I was going to go home for Father's Day.
I did go home for Father's Day. I called my
sister and I was like, can you please help me?
And she I think for so long, like my mom
was sick for so long, and we were also stressed
out for so long, and we were all just trying
to get by for so long that like my sister
and I would fight over nothing and then we would

(01:38:40):
have to like stop talking for a while because it
was just bad bad at tension and guilt and like everything.
It was like nobody was happy for twelve years and
that was it ended two years ago. You know, you know,
which is a good thing ultimately so but but I

(01:39:02):
finally realized this is one of the main things my
sister and I fight about, is how fucking controlling she is.
Like I have to ask her to unlock the car
door so I can get out, and it makes me
so mad, like, oh, I have all these yeah, I
have all these things where like if the car door
is locked when I try to get out of it,
I am immediately enraged.

Speaker 1 (01:39:21):
I'm the same way when I try to get into
it you're coming to pick me up or we're walking
to the car together. Andy and I have and I
try to open the handle and it doesn't fucking open,
and you know, I'm there, dude, I totally get it,
Like why I just the like pull up of the
handle and it doesn't open immediately it makes me fear,

(01:39:43):
how dare you?

Speaker 2 (01:39:44):
And for me, the pull of the car door and
it doesn't open is like immediately I want to scream.

Speaker 1 (01:39:50):
I'm not six years old like a six year old would.

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
So anyway, I just texted my sister or called her,
I can't remember, and I said, please help me buy
a car, and she fucking basically delivered a new car
into my hands. And it was so awesome because I
felt guilty. I was only going up for this basically
forty eight hours to see my dad. I knew that
was going to take a huge chunk of time, which

(01:40:15):
would in the past make her mad, but not she
couldn't act mad, so it would be.

Speaker 1 (01:40:19):
Like, yeah, all that stuff, godsister.

Speaker 2 (01:40:21):
So instead I was like, can you please help me,
like I can't take another uber and she was like
I got you, yeah, and deliver.

Speaker 1 (01:40:31):
People are just we're all good. At something different, well exactly,
and she goes. I said, thank you for momming me
through this, and she was like, it's my favorite thing
to do. It's like we basically figured.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
Out the good points of those things instead of all
always the bad.

Speaker 1 (01:40:47):
You used her powers of being a control freak for good. Yes,
And I got to get my baby. Somebody helped me
out and it worked, and it worked. You can you
asked for help and it and it was delivered and
I didn't get kicked in the goddamn teeth. So anyway,

(01:41:07):
now I have a new car and I.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
Love it, and I can make some calls from my
steering wheel and all these things that modern people just
seem to do.

Speaker 1 (01:41:14):
You just got a new flip phone and taped it
duct taped it to your steering wheel. I got a
new phone, and I got a new car and it
has a phone in it. Yeah, it's a fucking sweet car.
And it's made me want to buy a new car too.
It's nice. It's well also, just you have to have
a car. You have to.

Speaker 2 (01:41:31):
I mean I was I would do things like I
wouldn't have groceries and I'd be like, I have to
figure out the next time I go to Georgia's and
I take an uber home. Right first, I'm gonna I'm
gonna walk to the grocery.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
Store and then I'll get the uber like shit like
that where it's like this is, see, let's make my
life harder. That's what I'm all about. I like to
stack problems and never solve. My therapist is like, spend
your fucking money, even if, like whatever money you have,
spend a little chunk of it to make your life
fucking because you're always stressed out about making about life

(01:42:03):
being hard. That's right, you can't.

Speaker 2 (01:42:05):
It's so true, Like you have to remind yourself of
the good part of what you have.

Speaker 1 (01:42:11):
Like there's lots of things to be stressed out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:13):
If you work really hard and you work all the
time and that's your life, I get it, and I
do the same thing. Take the money that you make
and instead of being paranoid about not having this or that,
spend that money so you understand what the good part
about working hard is.

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
For dude, And that's happened to me today. Get your
fucking house cleaned professional here, apartment cleaned once a month. Oh,
I don't care how small your apartment. Is it's fucking
brain changing. Yeah, that's right, good idea, it's brain changing.
I'm gonna do that chemistry change.

Speaker 2 (01:42:46):
Also, I have to get a handyman to come and
pick up the couch that's just laying on my patio.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
No, that it makes sense. I'm a little Sanford and
Son at my house just because I can't. It's that thing.
I'm gonna have to call my sister stuff like. That's hard.
It's hard sometimes, man, We're just everyone's just doing our best. Yeah,
everyone's trying to do Stephen's best. But that's I wish
I have a I wish.

Speaker 2 (01:43:08):
I could do Stephen's Stephen, if you owned a truck,
you could take care of you tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:43:16):
Do you want to buy me a truck?

Speaker 1 (01:43:17):
Yes, we're in Stephen at U haul. Laura gets Stephen
a trull. Laura, You guys, is more than anything. Thank
you for fucking listening and being good people, hopefully even
you skippers skippers and especially you Satanists. Yay, stay sexy
and don't get murdered. Elvis one cookie. Why