87 - Hither And Yon

This week on My Favorite Murder, Karen and Georgia cover Jack Gilbert Graham and the Son Of Sam.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome to my Favorite murder, a true crime podcast for
people who are into facts and.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Percentages that in itself is not a fact.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
That's Karen Calghera, that's Georgia Hardstarg. I'm welcome, and we're
finally back in my apartment.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yeah, this is quite an adjustment. I know.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
I'm like, I've been really looking forward to this to
just be like in our element. I was going to
clean up the podcast loft.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
What happened?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
I mean, all you to do is look at it
to know what happened. It's like a fucking bomb went
off in.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
There, an Australian gift bomb.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
An Australian gift bomb. We watch wrestling, fucking merch bomb.
Oh shit, there's empty fucking sparklet's bottles up there.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
I always forget that there's two podcasts being being beamed
out of this apartment. Yeah, so there's a lot. There's
a lot going on, not just us.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, and both Vince and I like are the keepers
of the things. So it's just you know, there's also
cap bar for and I'm gonna be honest right now.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, Yeah, good, I welcome that honesty. Yeah, I don't
have kept bar of a quolla in my house at
the moment, although I did open the door to a
new My dog walker went on vacasion and she told
me she had a replacement, but she didn't say the
replacement was automatically coming. She just gave me the number
of the person I could call. And so, like eleven

(01:38):
in the morning. Well, I was wearing When I wear
my black pajamas, they become black with white yeah hair pajamas.
And I was sitting there working on something and the
door bell ring, and I was like, what could possibly
be happening right now?

Speaker 2 (01:53):
The worst feeling when the doorbell ring, it's the worst.
I sneak to the door quietly and the lookout the
thing people and I'm like, uh.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Uh yeah, but like I'm like front door on the sidewalk.
So it's whoever. And a lot of times it's people
who are shilling for a church or real estate agency.
Hey are you thinking about selling your house? Hey, I
think you should sell this piece of shit house and
get out from get out from underwater. It's usually that.

(02:21):
One time it was the bug man. Did I tell
you about that? When I opened the door and the
guy goes, hey, I just wanted to introduce myself. I'm
and then he stood back a little bit and goes
the bug man, yeah, And I just shut the door
because he was like he started to say my neighbors
used him to like firk an exterminate or something. But
he was really young and good looking, and he had
like a uniform on, and I was just like, get

(02:42):
out of here. You don't try to charm me. You're
gonna bug charm me. Like no, never, never. So this
time was weird because it was too beautiful Northern European
looking people with accents. Oh my god. So I was like,
and George immediately goes out because they have the door open.
This is a different story, but long and short of

(03:02):
it is I met the dog walker that I had
no intention of calling because I didn't want to talk
to a new person. I don't have to make some
kind of a new connection.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
No.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
I was going to be like, fine, I'll do it myself. Yeah.
And then she has showed up now every day to
like it is her pet. You can't tell her to
leave me alone. Now she's already they've already been in,
they've seen the worst of the worst.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
It's something where you like know that someone's counting on
the money that you're paying them.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah. I've been in that position where you're going to
show up no matter what where.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
I thought that I was getting this much money this
week from this job that I thought I had, and
then someone tells you you're not, and you're so broke
that you're like, well, now I thought I could cover
rent and I can't. Like that's happened to me, And
I burst into tears because I was like, huh, you
canceled on me and now I'm fucked.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
So what you went and did something?

Speaker 2 (03:50):
No, No, I never did it, but it's like, I
don't I wouldn't want to disappoint I wouldn't want to
do that to someone who's like, Hi, I'm here like
I'm supposed to be and you're like, no, actually you
can't take this week off.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine anyone's paying rent with
like dog walking. I don't know if that's a good plan.
Although I have to say my dog walker makes bank
because she has a bunch of dogs aside from my too,
and she does stuff like stays the night for a
slightly higher rate. That's where the money is. Yeah, Yeah,

(04:20):
Well anyway, So I didn't I didn't take away. I
didn't take away your rent. I let her and her
husband come in and take my dog. That's good of you,
that's really good of you. It didn't feel great though,
because it was like I was hiring beautiful right. I
think they're Danish people. Love to walk my pets while
I sit home like a little pile of dirty laundry

(04:44):
and write on my computer. Love it right? Can I
do housekeeping? Sure?

Speaker 2 (04:52):
So I bet we have a lot, yeah, really quickly
for the tour. We're going on this tour and now
it started in Australia and who knows where and who
knows when and who knows when and what and how
and why and why? And it could be I mean,
stay tuned. I mean, so the two that I want
to mention that we have a late show in Detroit

(05:13):
that's coming up on the twenty ninth. Uh, and still
tickets for the LA show. Still tickets for the late show.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Oh nice?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
And then Toronto, Uh, they're on the thirtieth. There's still
a couple of tickets for that. And then so if
you go to my favorite murder dot com slash Live,
I'm not going to fucking say the date's I'm going
to tell you. If you hear your city, go to
my favorite murder dot com slash Live, because nobody wants
to fucking listen this San Diego, Anaheim, Minneapolis, Madison, Wisconsin, Tampa, Houston, Dallas,
Saint Lewis, and Kansas City. If you've heard, if I've

(05:41):
called your name, go to the fucking my.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
They all have tickets left. Yeah, oh not a ton.
So I these people get so mad at us that
it sells out. But I know that's what I'm saying.
You kind of really walk in that line. It's like
I can't imagine. Well, we'll see you know what. Maybe
you do know when to come. That's okay, here's the thing.
Have to come maybe of anxiety. A lot of shit
goes down. I mean, what we can guarantee you is

(06:05):
an event ful, never no night.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
You know what's cool about that is like I have
an issue with going to any I maybe more SOHO
was younger, Like any event alone, Like just showing up
anywhere alone freaked me out. I've seen a movie alone once,
like as an experiment because I was so scared and
I ran in my fucking ex boyfriend with his girlfriend there.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
That's how great it was.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Movie was it was There Will be Blood, which.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Is like a move you don't want to watch alone,
like you need to talk to someone about it. Yeah,
there's a lot. There's a lot only time ever going
to a movie alone you could hide behind because it's
like a good movie, yeah, with a good director. So
you could be like, oh, I just had to see
this film, or I could be like my I was
with my friend but they got triggered and ran out.
Yeah that's right, I just ran They hate milk and

(06:52):
lots of things. So yeah. So people are always people who.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
We meet with the shows tell us that they came
alone because it's such an event because so many people
have anxiety, and they're like, and it was incredible and
I met awesome people.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah that's true.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
That to me is like the people who are scared
of coming alone, like you're going to be sat next
to someone who you're going to be best friends with.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
It's really true. Yeah, it's just everyone, we're all and
then because everyone's the same pretty much, oh my god,
the same has the same feel of person. It's hilarious
to me. And also when people tell us they're alone,
when they come to meet us at the meet and greet,
I always go, there'll be somebody that's alone and they'll
be like that girl over, there's a way we always
like yell over a like go touch to her.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
And like if you wear like a shirt that's like
funny that like relates to something murdery, someone's going to
come off you, Like where did you get that?

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Be my best friend.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Someone had a shirt shirt on one of the meet
and greets that said the husband did it. And I
talk about this and I bought us both. I bought
us both and yeah because that was the best shirt.
And I worked with therapy just to be like here's
why in your face, and then my therapist, this is
how fucking sweet he is. He was like, uh oh,
well yeah, it's always a husband's fault. And I'm like, no,

(08:05):
the husband murdered. He just didn't get Oh he might
have been exciting yeah no, no, no, no, no no no.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
And in fact I was.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
I bought a car this week, oh yeah, yesterday, which
was like exciting on a lot of levels and scary,
and the car dealer was like the super normal dude
and we were like looking at the car and he
opened the trunk and Vince joked like, which I love that.
Vince said this, Oh you g've hit a few bodies
in there, and then he points to the emergency latch
and just goes, just make sure you disabled that.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Oh my god, whoa like sold? Yes, right, that's a
good sales Oh my god, I bought the car from
he was.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
He definitely didn't listen to the podcast, like is ever
I tweeted it and feel like he must be like no,
it just was like a family man.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Lots of people have good senses of humor. Yeah, and
he was like twenty eight or so, that's hilarious. Yeah,
I like that style. I do too.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Now you're just going like you don't know if I'm
gonna if I'm going to be I've had been locked
in a trunk before in my life, but you're just
fucking picking it out.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
You know what it is. It's if you've been locked
in a trunk before in your life. The fact that
you're making the joke first means you're okay, right, which
means he can do what he wants, and that it's
actually additional relief that he would join in and not
leave you hanging right or go, oh my god, what's
wrong with you? It's just a classic, like bullshit salesman personality.
It's why I like people like that, and I hate

(09:30):
myself for liking them because it's such an obvious Like
those smooth talkers are my favorite, and they're the they're
the most full of shit.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
People who don't miss a beat right there, don't react
how thrilling, Yes, exactly, they go along with it.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
It's like constant high end improvise.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Sure that makes you have to be smarter and quicker too.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
But it also is like you're being hurt. It's exhausting,
it's it's thrilling. We were talking about this the other
day on the Mini. But I can get a sense
of time or place because of being back. I know
that it's too long to complain about jet lag. I'm
still complaining about it because I'm still there.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Well, it's not a just jet lag, it's just that
it wasn't a vacation, and we were constantly busy, and
most people don't fly three times inside of their flight
to and from home.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
No, No, The traveling that went on within the traveling
was very intense, studying so much. When I want to
write my murder for this week. It was not enjoyable
because there were so many that we had to do
for Australia, and so many that I researched for Australia
and chose not to me too because they were so intense.

(10:43):
There's some fucked up, fucked up stories you have like
five that are half written that I was going to
do from Australia.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, it's almost good though, because now it feels like, well,
you only have three in Detroit and Toronto. How great
is that. That's a fucking walk in the pond.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
It's no big deal. That's a cake walk in the park.
And we've never done Toronto. Now we've gotten tons of
suggestions since the beginning from Toronto, so like there's there's
lots of choices. It doesn't have to be. There's something
about Australian true crime that is very dark. It's like,
oh my god, it is for some reason, maybe it's

(11:21):
his judgment feels darker than regular.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
It feels like the only murders there are huge murders. Yes,
there's no like they don't have guns. So it's not
like there's drive bys.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
No, it's like a guy that's got like picked up
a handful of red clay and painted his face red
and then hidden the bushes to intentionally kill the innocence. Yeah,
like it's a lot of that over and.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Or killed his family on the next level of family killing.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yes, what is that familiar side? Yeah, yeah, I just
picked the story that's the best to tell in terms
of you're not gonna fucking believe right right. Also, I've
dipped into like ghost stories and shit, I've gone when
I can't go directly to it, which is a thing
that like, I know, a lot of murderingers are like
I'm a murder you know, have been since day one.
This is my jam, which is great, but not everybody

(12:08):
does it twenty four to seven, and like I personally
can't do it, so I have Yeah, I definitely have
like murder fatigue right now because I just don't want
I don't want to read about another acts, but I
just don't want it. I can't get enough.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
I still can't get enough, Like I had to was
researching a murder and then ended up, you know, watching
six others on YouTube, which is like has the most
fucked up ones, and then I was like, this isn't
even what you're talking about. This week's stop, I have
to like make myself stop watching it.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Oh, I did the same thing where I kept there's
all kinds of Somebody tweeted this actually because there was
a BuzzFeed list that it's like sixteen of the most
fucked up murders you've never heard of Jesus, which as
someone tweeted us and all murdering no say yeah right,
like try me basically, and they were most of ones
that we've all heard. But I always I read those
I go through and I'm like, of course I've heard it,

(13:00):
heard it, heard it, and I feel like now I'm
at that point of like it's almost like a magic
the gathering level nerd murder nerd thing where I've i
feel like I've had my hands in it for so
long that i just am like just for a little while,
like I don't want to play this game anymore, just
for a little while, and maybe it's just a traveling Okay.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Before we started this podcast, I would have to take
long breaks from murderer stuff because I would get really depressed.
So the only thing that's kept me from that now,
which because we've been doing it NonStop, is this it's
a job now but I fucking would get dark and
deep and depressed and scared of the world.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, because it's it's scary. It's scary. It's definitely scary.
On a positive note, self care everybody.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Uh, Stephen, should we talk about Oh yeah, our new march.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
So we've designed a shirt for on behalf of.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Steven his tribute. Stephen's surprise. He doesn't know about this.

Speaker 4 (14:04):
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
This has been in the works.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
We've been talking about it, We've been thinking about it.
We've been talking and thinking about it.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
And then so I asked the great Chris Fairbanks, who
is my co host on Do You Need to Ride?
My other podcast, and he's also a stand up but
hilarious stand up comics, so fucking funny and a but
he's what's funny. The most interesting thing I think is
he is a brilliant graphic artist.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
He has no idea. We should talk to Chris Fairbanks. Yeah,
he fucking that Do You Need to Ride cover, I
have no idea. Is the most intricate, fucking awesome cover.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
I've ever seen. There's a monster eating a freeway in it,
and that's just one of the things that's happening it's.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Just like it's bananas. And when you told me that,
I was like, oh fuck, yeah, it's on.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah. So I asked Chris to do a Steven cut
that out design. Oh my gosh, and he's done it
for us. And this is it showing Steven right now.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Look look here you describe it, Stephen.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
There's this swoop with my hair and it says Stephen
all in red, like tracing along my hair as a
silhouette Stephen. And then it finishes on the other side
it says cut that, and then it says my favorite
murder on the mustache.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, it's basically Stephen silhouette hair. It's his hair silhouette.
This his hair, mustache, eyebrows, facial hair silhouette with Steve.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
But yet Stephen cut that and my murder and in
the twine intertwine as the hair. And it should be
up by the time the time you're hearing these words
in your face. This should be up on my favorite
murder shirts fucking dot com. Wow, my favorite murder shirts
dot com.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Stephen, how do you feel well?

Speaker 4 (15:53):
I can never change my hair.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
Also very honored that a fellow mustache brother, Chris.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
That's why it's so good.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
That's right, Oh my gosh, it's so rad. When you
sent it to me, it was like, yes, yes, yes,
it's so.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
It's really good.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
And what's cool is that it's subtle and people who
know will know yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Well, like any other shirt, you have to know it.
You have to know the show to have it make sense. Yeah,
even like the son of it. It's great.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
So hopefully we'll have that on tots and fucking mugs
and stickers and shirt.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
All red and it's not just from the weird face
mask Jackie made me try.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
She is very red right now, it is he gets embarrassed.
Oh my god. Stephen was was heralded and lauded at
all all through Australia. People lost there. He basically at
his secondary meet and greet line where people would walk
away from us and then walk over to Steven's meet
and greet. And I have a present for Steven, Like
I need to go give this to Stephen and have

(16:50):
him sign this.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah. A couple of people are like, can Stephen be
in this photo? And we made him do.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Now.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Steven has a signature pose which is on one knee
with his shin on his Biss is one.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
Of us child yeah star prom thing.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, it's perfect.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
But now you have Marty, you have MFM merch. Oh
my god, that's official. Elvis doesn't even have MFM merch.
And he's a cat. I don't know that wouldn't That
doesn't equal equivalent. It's fine, Yeah, you're basically a cat.
And then the other thing. Oh, can I shout out
a fucking podcast that I've been listening to that I
really love, podcast corner. It's called The fall Line. It's

(17:28):
a female investigative journalist who every season is going to
talk about marginalized crimes and marginalized communities in Georgia. WHOA, yeah,
because I think that's where she's from. So that's kind
of what she's doing.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
She kicking off with the Atlanta child killer. No, she's
she's like.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Doing ones that we don't know about that are have
been like bungled. Oh yeah, so this is the nineteen
ninety The first one's in nineteen ninety disappearance of these
twin sisters, Dannette and Jeannette Millbrook. They were a fifteen
year old African American girls on their way home.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Good girls.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
They weren't gonna be the typical not runaways fucking disappeared,
oh course quote the runaways and never got looked into.
And so this is actually like reopening the case and
they're looking into it again now and it might get
another one of those ones again in Georgia where it
might get solved.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, that's amazing. On the scene they tried to do
runaways in the nineties. Fuck yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Mean it was a poor neighborhood in Georgia and you know,
in Georgia African American community. But like the girls had
seizure medication and didn't have it with them, Like you
don't run away without your seizure medication, you sure don't know.
And they were good girls and not that bad girls
don't also good disappear.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Right, But that's part of the when it's the disenfranchised
cultures that the people, the larger media or the larger
interpretation is always they were asking for it.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Some disassumption is they did something and they deserved it
and that's why it happened, right and.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Then there because I think the people think that way,
so they can just break off from any kind of
care emotional responsibility and it's like not my problem, but.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
It won't happen to me or anyone I love, because well,
this is a really good one because she she looks
into all the possibilities, including like a couple serial killers
in the in the town, one of which sounds so
fucking likely. Wow, And uh, it's just a really it's
one of those you know, female investigative journalists and podcast
podcast that has a ton of fucking empathy.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
So it's you feel it too. That's great. So that's
the fall that sounds amazing, the fall line falling.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
And I think there's a go fundme campaign trying to
raise money to help with like either you know, a
a reward for information or to fund you know, something
like that. So let's go look into it.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
That makes me think that our friend Joe th only
her last name was someone just tweeted at me. She's
number one. No, she's got the number one podcast right
now with her podcast Zealot, which is about cults.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
She was she was the hometown the end of the
Live Sydney Show, which went up last week. She was
the Hometown Murder, which we originally brought up because she
said she can moonwalk and we knew it'd be a heavy,
heavy episode like because of what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
So we were like, come up.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
On Moonwalk by the way to have a hometown, and
she totally did, and she was charming as fuck. And
she's like, I also have a podcast called Zealot about cults.
And I looked at her Instagram and it was like,
oh my god, I'm number forty six on that comedy.
She's also it's about cults, but it's comedy, which is
like so oper ally. Yeah, I'm number forty six on
the comedy the iTunes comedy podcast. And then I looked
at him, like, oh my gosh, she's number three right

(20:46):
below us. Now she's number one.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
She's fucking number one, girl, girl got so what happened
with us? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:51):
I messaged her on Instagram was like, I've got I
know how you fucking feel right now. You better fucking
enjoy this. It's the coolest thing that's ever happened.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
That's so good. Yeah, I'm so happy for her. Yeah
she deserves that. That's so funny. And it was purely
because she sent the perfectly. The concept of the tweet
was you guys might not feel like talking by the
time you get to the end. Let me come up
and moon walk for you, and just the idea of
that was so hilarious.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
I can't of imagine that we would have picked that
because it's not what we do.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
No, it's just like a sidebar. But it was so funny.
It was me so funny. And she definitely moonwalked too.
I mean that is good. Following she moonwalked in high heel.
Oh my god, it was crazy. It was great, it
was great, happy for her. Anything else. I haven't watched
the confession tapes. I don't want to talk about it.
I watched literally forty tweets a day saying watch it.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Confession FoST Confessions are not my thing because they stressed
me out so much, so stressful, and I can't wrap
my head around them. Even though I understand the ins
and outs, it's just so hard. I get so angry
and stressed out that I can't watch that. But I
am watching our Jessica Biale The Sinner, The Sinner. I'm
on episode three. I'm really suddenly getting into it. Like

(22:04):
the first episode, I was like, mah, second, okay, third,
I'm fucking there.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, it's good. How about that dirty, dirty Bill Pullman.
Oh he's so sexy. He's dirty.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
Oh my, he's a dirty slat.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
It's a dirty bird, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
He wants to be shamed and just submission.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
I also love that woman that plays is Domini Chix
or girlfriend or whoever that woman is. Yeah, he just
looks like a normal woman. At this second. I see
women like that on TV. I'm like, oh my god,
there's just someone on TV. They're letting someone not emaciated
be on TV.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Do you know what else I love about her character
is that she works at a classy restaurant instead of like,
cause she looks like she'd work at a dive bar
in the on the you know, off the drag, It's like, Nope,
she works at a high end restaurant. It's like, you're
not fucking making her this character that everyone thinks she is.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
No, she's like a self possessed, self actualized sex worker
slash ex girlfriend slash something else. It adds to the
interest of like, yeah, this is how complex human beings actually.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Acting no matter what. And I think I'm I think
I'm really into it. But even if I'm not, the
characters are really interesting.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
I think I'm really into it. Don't fight it, just
like it.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
No I'm gonna I bought the I bought the fucking
season pass.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
I'm in. I'm gonna get my money as well. It's great,
it's really it's really well acted. Yeah, I am watching
something because as I announced that, I was just taking
a light a light axe break. There's a show called
Toast of London.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
It don't make me all over the you have if
you I'm imagining it right now?

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Do you or do you like peep Show and show?
I love peep Show. Okay, that's that's Matt Barry, who
the bigger guy from Peep Show? Right, No, no, no,
he's not from Peach Show, but he just it reminds
me of when you watch sometimes when I brought watch
British comedy and it's so it's so intelligently funny that
it makes me like it makes me feel like screaming

(24:02):
as I watch it.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
As you don't because you have to be quiet the
whole time because you're gonna miss a fuck anything, so
you can't laugh out loud.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
There's yes, you have. You're just listening as hard as
you can.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
They're so dry, there's no like punchline and.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
It's like saying everyone wants everyone to be this funny,
like we're doing it here, why won't you allow people
to do it there? Anyway, it's called Toast of London.
He is like kind of a washup actor.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Wait, is he's so hilarious from Dark Places, Yes, Garth Marangs, Yes, Okay,
I love it.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
It's like a news series and it is.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Please go watch them ones you've just mentioned. I think
you have to go online, probably right, I.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Think you're all on Netflix. Fuck.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Dark Places and Peep Show are two of the best
we can see.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
If Garth Marange's Dark Places is on Netflix, it's just excellent. Also,
there was a clip we have to stop talking about this,
but there is a scene from Matt Barry's Sketch Show
where he goes and he's going to hell this girl.
She's carrying a big fish have you seen it? And
they're walking and he's like, let me take that for you.

(25:07):
He's being super fake sweet to her, and then she goes.
He's like, oh, are you going off this? And she
finally goes like, oh, my boyfriend's apartments are and throws
it and it's just as somebody did a super cut
of all the times he does that. Oh my god,
and he's just thrown kick drop kicks a dog.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
The minute a girl said, a woman says, I have
a boyfriend, my boy my boyfriend, my boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
You it's so funny.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
And the fish the fish tank had fish in it,
and he broke it and.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
They were on the ground. Yeah, he smashed it as
hard as he could them. Listen, so good, it's so good. Well,
go to YouTube. But Toast of London is on Netflix
and Peep Show's still on Netflix, right, and do you
know the Peep Show they're coming out with the new season.
Oh my god. Yeah, they're like doing a think it's
called something, it's it's sorry, it's not Peep Show. But

(25:53):
they're coming out with a new tank. Good good. Hey,
shall we sit down?

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, should talk about let's do it? Who the fuck
is first? And what are we basing it off of?
I mean Sydney, Sidney, the last show in Sydney, I'm sorry,
the show at the Opera.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
House, That Opera House show, that show we did at
the Opera House. Who went first that time?

Speaker 4 (26:16):
I believe you did, because you went you went last.
You did the Shark Arm.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Shark Arm wasn't Sidney, So then I was first to
second night. So it's yeah, that's me. Okay, all right,
this is the sorry, I just forgot what I was doing.
This is the story of Jack Gilbert Graham and Flight
six twenty nine. All right, so Jack Gilbert Graham, Let's Tom.

(26:41):
Jack was born on flight six twenty nine.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Now, it was like, do I ignore that airplane flying
into this place? Do we have something like a black
box that if we get blown up by an airplane
right now that they can find it?

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Can you save that? I don't think this would survive
a plan. Float it right now, just in case. The
apartment has a black box. That's all the apartments came
with black brights. That's the thing. That's why you came here.
That vintage ship painting, that's a black box. Oh ok yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Well so so Jack is born on January twenty third,
nineteen thirty two, in Denver, Colorado. I was gonna do
this for Denver, but then I'm like, I'm saving the
shit out of this. He's a second child of Daisy
Graham and her second husband. Jack is born during the
Great Depression in nineteen thirty seven. His dad dies of pneumonia,

(27:31):
which is a thing back in the Great Depression it
caused Daisy. Daisy then his mother sent him to an
orphanage because of their poverty. Super bummer. It was a
thing back then. Yeah, and sometimes they just did it
like it was a pawn shop, where it was like
stay here for a little while.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
That's right, I'll come back and get you. Baby farmers, right,
weren't they called baby farmers in England? And I didn't
know that that makes sense, where you just kind of
drop them off and they grow your baby and then
you come pick them back up. They grow your baby poorly,
they grew your baby. But a lot of times what
they would do is kill them and take the money. Yeah,
they would take the money, be like sure, sure, we'll

(28:07):
totally take care of it and get money from the
state or whatever. Oh no.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
But then Daisy goes and married and I had to
quote this because it was so good well healed, meaning
rich as fuck. Yeah, Daisy marries a richest fuck rancher
named Earl King in nineteen forty one. She's now like
fucking live in the high life. Still doesn't get jack
from the orphanage. Oh yeah, well that's her old life.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
She wants to put all that behind her.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
She doesn't want to like stress out rancher guy in
his mansion. He ran away several times to be with
her from the orphanage, but she always brought him back, which.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Is like, oh, no, you're going to raise it. Oh
that's so he would actually get to his mother's house
and she would bring him back the mansion. That's like
something an orphan would make up. She's like, my mother
lives nearby in a manson.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Right, and she must not just be able to come
get me, So I'm going to make it easier for
her and go there.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
And then she's all, no, thanks. Nope.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Then, when Jack was eight years old, Daisy, she brought
him home to the ranch to celebrate Christmas from the orphanage, like,
come on home from Christmas, buys him a pony, and
he's like, well, if you're buying me a pony, I'm
clearly here to stay.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Nope.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Once Christmas was over, she takes him back to the
fucking orphanage. Can you imagine living a lavish whatever week life,
week long life in the mansion that your mother gets
to stay in. Your mom gets a pony. And there
was an older half sister, so I but it doesn't
say I wonder if she was actually living there.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
You know. Also, why don't they just send him to
boarding school? Do they have to be in an orphanage?

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Sure? Yeah, So the husband, the richestock husband dies and
she takes the money for inheritance, becomes a successful business
woman and still doesn't fucking get him.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
From the orphanage. I know. Just telling me a super
sad story this week. That's it. Okay, it's just all
about orphans. Just take that up. Yeah, well, don't worry.
It gets worse, Okay.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
When he's sixteen, he forges papers and he joins the
Coast Guard, but his real agents found out and he's discharged,
which is so sad where it's like he might have
had a good life if they had just like he
wanted to join the Coast Guard and be part of
the military, and they were like sixteen, which back then
was like twenty seven in terms of like being on

(30:33):
your own, you could probably drink already.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
I mean, but if it was still during its list
is a little after the depression, because maybe it's like
no free lunches. Yeah, come back when you're eighteen. Yeah
you're on free lunch until Yeah, go get your free lunch.
With the orphanage because maybe they would get in trouble
for you know, that's true dangerous. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
At nineteen. So finally, at nineteen, he forged for over
four grand and checks to finance a road trip that
got him and ended up. The forged checks got on
two months in a Texas jail for bootlegging and running
a police road block at one hundred miles per hour, which.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Sounds like fucking fun. Yes, bootlegging. Yeah. At this point
he's like, who gives a fuck? Yeah, I'm going to go.
Everyone in charge is crazy. I'm going to live my life. Yeah. Uh.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
He's extradited back to Denver's mom pays his debt and
probation is granted. So he then goes to the University
of Denver, which is later like he must be.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Have some must be kind of smart. Yeah, in a way,
I couldn't get into a un the university system here
in California. What if our uber drivers?

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Hellas, when we were in Boulder, it was the night
before school started for the Bold University of Boulder.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yes, I think, so whatever whatever the Boulder, which I
really couldn't get into, she said to us. No is
he said to us.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, well Boulders No, Boulder College is known as.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
A pretty easy to get in do school.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
In Senuary that everyone there was stupid, which I was
just like, Okay, I don't feel so bad about going
to community college and dropping out now.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
I went to Sex State, where they were like, please
come here, please come and be one of the two
hundred thousand people that go to this. We need you
more than you need us. Yeah, oh my god, I
love it, but we should add this that. Then after
our show and we all went downtown to like try
to find a party, where people told us over and
over again, don't go downtown. Yeah, they were like, you

(32:31):
don't want to go down there because it was all
college kids partying, college kids just running a muck in
the street, all of them lovely polite. Oh yeah. My
sister asked for directions at one point and the boy
was like practically walked them to the door of the
place we're trying to find. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, so we're not listening Bolder College.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
I mean, I just I figure I put that out
there too, of Colorado. That's very fair of you. I
wasn't kidding. I mean, we can't call everybody stupid. And
just walk away. You're right, uh dude?

Speaker 2 (33:02):
Okay, So attends Denry University meets his wife, Gloria Daisy.
The mom and Jack were estrange until nineteen fifty four,
when Jack was twenty two years old, and Daisy at
this point is running a successful restaurant, and in May
of nineteen fifty five, she builds a Crown Aid. She
builds Crown a drive in, which is what it was

(33:22):
called for him to manage. She just like builds a
place so he'll have a fucking job.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
That's the big, that's the big, get back, that's the big.
Sorry about the orphanage your whole life? Remember when I
abandoned the shit out of you forever?

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Hey, Well then how about some middle management? Yeah, I
have a clean up French fry Greece every night. Good
luck with that and manage like roller skating waitresses. You
hate your guts, love mommy, Love your mommy. Fucking But
Daisy and Jack they still had a shitty relationship. They're
often seen arguing, and in nineteen fifty five, Daisy's restaurant

(33:54):
her other restaurant, has a gas explosion. It causes severe
damage closes her restaurant for good.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Huh hmmm, hmm, the most interesting kind of explosion, right
gas line?

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Would I bring it up if it wasn't relevant? Probably not, probably, probably, yeah,
maybe not, maybe not.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
We we won't know. We'll never know.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
There's a third choice, and we don't know it yet.
Then Okay, So Daisy, this points a fifty three year
old widow. Fifty three at that point is fucking old
as shit. She's like, the hill lady, you've done for you,
retire already. Well yeah, so so she tells Jack. Jack's
twenty three at this point. He's got a wife, they

(34:35):
have a baby. He's like made good and made a
family and works for his mother. Like he's clearly trying
to fucking label make her want him still, you know.
And she's like, oh, by the way, the holidays coming up,
even though you have a new baby, I'm gonna go
instead go to Alaska and visit your older sister.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
God I hate her. It's so the people close to
you are the ones that can hurt you the most,
and they do and why do we let them? Because
you just that's life. That's like, it's a series of
insults and injuries.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, and you're trying to fix yourself so that you
fit into what they want from you, even though they
have no fucking clue what they want from you because
they're broken too.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
And then you realize you fix yourself for yourself, and
you drive through a fucking police roadblock like this is
my remember this my movie, and you're like, you have fun.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
You're drinking fucking shitty bathtub gin. Yes, you're legging and
the best life.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
You're just going for it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
And then in Texas of all places, which had to
be fun, Yes, go watch everyone, go watch Paper Moon.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
I bet that's what his life was like. That movie
is so amazing. Or Friday Night Lights.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Oh yeah, they weren't bootlegging in.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
That movie where they could have been. There was that
one season where the brothers stole copper wiring.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
There was that one season where they had, uh, what's
it called prohibition?

Speaker 1 (36:01):
But what did you say? I just said pot? Oh,
they took some pot. They took pot.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
That the okay, and that I wrote, And that, as
they say, was the final final fucking straw for him. Yeah,
And I was like, or maybe it was the pony
years and years ago, that was the final straw. And
he just like hadn't planned it yet.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
This straw went in and then it was it just waited.
It was benine until it became alli.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, it just got heavier over the years. Okay, November one,
nineteen fifty five, Jack's like, Okay, you want to go
to Alaska.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Great, let me.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Take you to the airport. Oh, I'll take you to
the airport.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
To go to Alaska. So loaded, because I just was like,
it's literally loaded it. Oh, all right, I'm gonna let
you go. Well, just just going to the airport by itself.
Like the morning we were leaving for our trip, you
were like, come to my house if you want to
ride with us, come to my house. We're leaving at
seven thirty da da da. And then I was just like,

(37:00):
I am so stressed, and now I'm adding another thing
to be stress. They're waiting for me. Yeah, and I'm
going to screw this hour. No, I'm going to be
on time.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
I think it's better that you not that you would
have done anything wrong.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
You were there with the exact same time. It's that
thing of we were which I think we did very
well with the anxiety of travel. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
We had such a good friendship trip. It was so fun,
It was so good. We had the best Stephen, thank
you for being a kitten in the in the group
of like just Stevens.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Stevens say, but it's like, yeah, we're I think we're
both aware. But also it's that thing of like just
travel anxiety, not knowing things walking up, you never know
what the fuck you're doing or where you're supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Great that we have Vince, who could not let who
could not be in charge, not be in charge if
he tried, Yes, and so.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
It's the best.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah, he would never if it was up to one
of us, he would lose his fucking one.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, he would lose his mind. Me too, Yeah, me too.
Between Vince and then our Australian our manager Nick, who
was a genius, we love you.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
You're never gonna listen to this podcast. He's so punk rock.
Yeah he doesn't. He was so punk rock.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, he was the best. He's the best. I want
him to always travel with us. Okay, So sorry, I'm
just I'm setting the table of I now have travel anxiety.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Just hearing travel anxiety sucks. Can you okay picture this.
You're everyone's a little scared of flying. You're anxious at
the airport, traveling is new. It's nineteen fifty five, Like, oh,
passenger traveling is pretty new. And sitting at the inn
the airport before you get on your plane is a
fucking like cigarette machine that instead of cigarettes sells life insurance.

(38:42):
What before you get on the plane, swear to fucking god,
this was a thing until the eighties. So you go
in there, and in this case, Jack puts in a
dollar fifty and gets out a life insurance policy for
his mother is about to fly to Alaska for thirty
seven one thousand, five hundred dollars, which at that time

(39:02):
is this time, it would be almost three hundred fifty
thousand dollars. And it's just like good luck on you,
Like everyone just bought some and it was like, ho,
he don't die.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
It's so perfect, Like it's so perfect. If he has
any bad intentions, he didn't fucking put that machine there.
He's just using it. Like everybody that day.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Everyone's like it's a thing of like, oh, I better
do it for good luck though you know what I mean, Like,
of course when I don't do it, it's gonna it's
like having your numbers on Roulett where it's like you
always do thirteen, yeah, but like this one time, it's like,
well what if thirteen comes up? So I just always
put it on thirteen. Same with renting a car.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, it's going to be the time you don't get
rental insurance exactly. I question it.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
I did I did that where it's like, why did
you bring up rental insurance, dude, because now I have
to get it? Yep, all right, okay, right, So I
think they did away with that on purpose because it's
terrifying to everyone.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
That's terrifying. It also it opens the door to people
who should not be able to just buy life insurance
policies hither and Yon, but also don't learn Yon.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
That was I gotta stuff on that. I've never heard that,
but I know what you meant.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
It didn't really apply to what I was saying. But well,
hither and thither it's like here and there. But no,
I know, But I want to now see all those
machines that they made in the fifties when they were
like making like life is going to be easier because
we have these machines.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
I had like a photo, like a drawing of like
a happy family on the way to that walk into that,
you know, because you'd walk on the tarmac. Yeah, oh god,
I bet we could find it. I could, but we
could find one in like American pickers.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
That show, and then I bet they have they must
have kept them, and.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
I bet there's some that have, Like it's some mechanic.
They're playing mechanic who they were closing down that and
he took it home because because he's a hoarder, and
it still has the papers you would get could you imagine, Yes,
I need that for the podcast off.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
It's such a good idea. Yeah, you need to put
that up there. Can someone please bring us that atually? Yeah, okay.
It's just around the same time as automats, which are
the most hilarious there when cafeterias they pretended to be automated,
but it was just people putting dishes.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Into those like press it's like pressing D seven. It's
like a hand coming out and handing you the like
the cream corn.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Or whatever there. Yeah, so you just have a bunch
of plates.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Like one of my one of my time travel like
plans is I would go to an automat because I
love cafeterias more than anything.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yes, A thousand percent. Yeah, I would have one. We
time travel and then we're going to go shopping at
fucking May Company. Oh okay, okay. When they run the
things like you know that they used to run the
money along wires above, they would drop it down, so
be like anyway, okay, but I.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Want dresses, Yes, you can go do that. Well, I
go look at the dresses and girdles. Go ahead, okay, great, okay,
Well here's where it gets crazy. Okay, before okay, here's
what happened. Wait, let's go back to before.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Wait.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
No.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Jack says to Daisy that he left a surprise Christmas
gift in her suitcase. Spoiler alert, it wasn't a puppy
and I wrote that so it was kind of corny.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Instead.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
In Daisy's large tan Samsonight suitcase, alongside the photo album
of Jack and Gloria's wedding that Daisy was going to
show to her daughter in Alaska, he had placed a
neat bundle of explosives. Less than an hour after the
flight took off, The United Airlines flight became the first
confirmed sabotage of a commercial aircraft in the United States

(42:37):
when it exploded mid air.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Oh fuck, have you not seen this crown to remember.
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
It crashed into farmland and sugar beet fields near Longmont, Colorado,
and Daisy and the forty three other passengers and crew
all died.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Oh god.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
The youngest passenger was thirteen month old James fitch Patrick,
the second. The eldest was eighty one year old Leyla McClain.
Five children lost both their parents in the crash. Pregnant
twenty two year old Carol Binam and her husband both died.
It was the worst mass murder in US history at

(43:16):
the time and remains the worst in Colorado, and was
one of the largest investigations in the FBI history.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Oh my god, I.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Know the FBI obtained so can I really quickly? I
just want to say, also, and I know the fucking
side bar nation over here. But I just finished What's
weird about this that I was planning on doing this,
and then I didn't realize until today when I finished
this audiobook I've been listening to that is so fucking good.
But it's about a plane crash, that sabotage that goes

(43:49):
the whole story. You don't find out what happened until
the very end. And in my car at like two
o'clock today I found out and I almost had a
pullover because I was crying.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Wow, it was so good. It was a true story. No, yeah,
it's a novel.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
It's called Before the Fall by Noah Holly h.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
A w l E. Y Oh. Spoiler alert. What did
I say? You said what the ending was? What did
I say? You said that it was the explosion.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Oh no, it's not an explosion though, it's just a
it's just a plane crash. Oh okay, that's not no, no, no,
So the explosion.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Isn't part of it.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
It's a plane crash that that they have to then,
so I got to talk about how they figured out
what had happened on the in the plane crash by
putting it in the hangar. So this same kind of
thing happened. Well, they had a piece together to figure
out what happened in the plane crash, and they do
it by interviews and going back to the day of
the crash and who did what and what happened, and
all the characters are really good. It's not an explosion. Ok, Okay,

(44:42):
that's a spoiler alert. Yeah, I thought that's what you were.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
I don't know what I just had the name of
the book.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
It's called Before the Fall, and the audiobook is great.
The reader is really good. You know, it's hard to find.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
That name sounds familiar. Noah, Holly, I bet he did
something really cool. I feel like it's the guy that
I could be wrong, but that might be the guy
that does that does.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
A Fargo now, yes, really, yes, Okay, coming back, Karen,
just fucking oh my god, your memory is bananas?

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Is it though? Your memory of certain ways it is? Noah, Holly?
Is it Holly? It's h yeah, Holly, J W. L
e Y. But he's not. He does a lot of things,
but he is the reason of fucking Fargo series is
so magical because it's being written. It's a novelist writing
a TV show, so it's like amazing pictures. Yeah. Well,

(45:39):
now I'm even more proud of myself for finding this
fucking book than fucking nice one. He's got other ones here,
so I'm going to download all of them.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, great audiobook, which sometimes I'll be like, don't get
the audiobook, read the book. It's better if Chris was
a great audiobook. And it's just weird that I'm doing
this story at the same time. As this, because I
literally I don't cry at books and movies, and I've
almost had a poet because I was just like so
taken aback.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
By some I love a good offer, like someone really
does it right.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
I'm so happy that we that we put that. You
put that together.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
So the FBI obtained use of a nearby barn. They
reassembled the fragments of the airplane collected from the site,
and they were able to determine that the explosives were used,
which is so incredible to me that a flight a
plane can blow up and crash and they can still
put it together and figure out what happened.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
They put it together like a huge puzzle.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
It's incredible. Those people must be so smart. They went, yeah,
I'm not gonna say it. I'm done with that. I'm
done with folder. And then they and they determined that
which piece of luggage it had come from. Oh fuck yeah,

(46:52):
like it went off in that piece of luggage, and
they figured out what piece of luggage it came from.
And they figured it out with Daisy's tannight, all right. They
so they started looking into her family and looked into
Jack when they found out about his criminal past. With
the bootlegging shit. They also determined that Daisy's restaurant had

(47:13):
been damaged by quote a suspicious explosion as well, and
that Jack had received the insurance settlements, which is like, dude, change.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Your momo a little bit. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Don't keep exploding things. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Locals also suspected Jack of deliberate causing his new pickup
truck to be stuck by to be stuck struck by
a train that year for insurance money. So this guy
was like after insurance money and into explosions. They also
found that when she died, a large part of Daisy's
estate would go to Jack, So insurance money again.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
After a few days of questioning, Jack said, okay, where
do you want me to start? And then, in great detail,
he described building and planting the bomb that killed his
mother and forty three others on flight six twenty nine.
Constructed of twenty five sticks of dynamite, a six foot battery,
two electric primer caps in case one of them failed,
and a timer set to detonate in about ninety minutes.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
After he planted it or turned it on.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Working in an electronic shop for just two weeks, he
had given Jack all the expertise he needed to build
the bomb, So this guy must have been fucking smart. Yeah,
I then he said, I then took this. I then
took the sack of dynamite with the battery and time
are attached, and placed it in my mother's large suitcase.
Based on all that evidence found at Jack's house, he

(48:33):
was arrested in charge of sabotage and later that was
changed to murder. After the erects arrest, some newspaper people
radio station people were able to sneak for cameras and
recording into the jail, and Jack told them I loved
my mother very much.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
She meant a lot to me. It's very hard for
me to tell exactly how I feel. She left so
much of herself behind, which I'm like, know she fucking didn't.
I mean, is that insensitive? It's insane of him to say, yeah,
it's super bizarre.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
I think he must have not had our emotions, our
feelings that we have. I don't want to call him
the sociopath because people are like, that's not really.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Well, it may or may not apply, but he's definitely
was insanely like damaged and abused as a child and
that the emotional attachments you have were broken. Yeah, at
some point, his mother repeatedly rejected him. That's like there's
some serial killers that that it only happens once and
they And it still.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Doesn't mean he didn't love her. It could mean that
he loved her more really in a way that we
don't feel love.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
But that feels like love to someone else. Well, it's
all he knew. Yeah, it's I mean, he lived in
an orphan He.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Had that thing of like you, if you don't have
emotional attachments to not just your parents, but to like
a caregiver as a young child, you can't have those
to anyone or it's really hard to change that.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
That's right. It's sad.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Yeah, But he's also a murderer and murdered a bunch
of innocent people.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
I mean, the plan of that, the coldness of the
plan of revenge on his mom, but then just like
total devastation on.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
All these other people, many families.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
It's so it's so evil.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah. When asked why he had signed the confession and confessed,
he said that the FBI threatened to point out inconsistencies
and statements made by his wife, Gloria, but he wanted
to keep her out of it. He just didn't want
her to have anything to do with it. So he
was like, I'm going to confess, so she doesn't. You know,

(50:46):
maybe she was lying for him, maybe she was covering
for him. He also told prison doctors that he realized.
He said, he realized that there were about fifty or
sixty people carried on the plane, but the number of
people to be killed made no difference to me. It
could have been a thousand. When their times come, When
their time comes, there's nothing they can.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Do about it.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
It's almost like he's God and their time, when really
he had just decided.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Yeah, yeah, he's pretending that that was he was some
kind of like the arbiter of fate or something. They're
just like, no, dude, you've just yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
The trial resulted in Colorado becoming the first state to
officially sanction the use of television cameras to broadcast criminal trials.
No federal statute at the time on the books that
made a crime to blow up an airplane because it
was so fucking new, and that led directly to federal
laws criminalizing airline sabotage and the formation of the Federal

(51:44):
Aviation administration at the time, though on the day of
Jack's confession, they wanted to quickly prosecute Jack. The simplest
possible way was premeditated murder of a single victim, his mother,
so none of the other victims they couldn't. They didn't
try him for those. Despite the number of victims, he's
charged with only one kind of first degree murder. He

(52:06):
recanted as confession, but because of all the evidence, he
was found guilty attempted suicide, and on May fifth, nineteen
fifty six, he was convicted of the death of the murder,
sentenced to death, executed in the gas chamber in January
of nineteen fifty seven, and before his execution, he said

(52:28):
about the bombing, as far as feeling remorse for these people,
I don't. I can't help it. Everybody pays their way
and takes their chances. That's just the way it goes.
And about his mother's murder, he said, I wanted her
to go. I watched her go off for the last time.
When she was getting on the plane, I felt happier
than I'd ever felt before in my life. Dude, And

(52:51):
that's fucking our friend.

Speaker 4 (52:53):
Jack.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Gilbert Graham in flight six twenty nine.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
I like those kind of quotes where you can really
it really almost surmises the insanity of the person, where
it's like you are totally cut off from empathy. You
don't give a fuck about anybody, but you're revenge.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Not even in a way of like you're about to die.
It doesn't matter. Apologize to the family is even if
you don't fucking mean it, like you can't even give
them some kind of.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Because he doesn't care, he doesn't have a connection to
care about those families.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
It's always it's impossible for us to understand well.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
And also it's but the thing I think it's interesting
is like family is the source of his insanity or
his his damage. So he doesn't care about those families.
He never had a family. He's like, fuck you. He's
probably more mad that they had family.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
He's probably thinking that they feel the same way about
their families as he does about his kid. He doesn't
know what it's like to feel any feelings about your family.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Yeah, only just negative or shitty or like yeah shit crazy.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Oh and go look him up, go look at his photos.
He looks like if our friend Matt bro Matt Bronger
was playing a yokel with a widow's peak. Oh like
Grease Backair. Yeah, our friend comedian Matt Bronger playing a
role as a yokel.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Nice. Yeah, well that was good, thank you, thank you.
It's fun to base them on TV shows. Yeah. A
lot of very hard work gets done for you. Yeah,
and it's just a retail.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Dude they set so I do the opposite stupid thing
where I'm like, I'm gonna do this hard one. And
then it's like it's so hard that nobody's ever made
a documentary about it except for some fucking person who
has Like there's so you looked on YouTube for your
murder and there's just these people, and I don't want
to insult other people, but I am uh. They make
these like story they tell the story on video with

(54:45):
pictures and things like that, but it's a computer voice. Yeah,
and then the murder when it's so weird.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Well, I feel like it might be a lot of
there's like students. It feels to me like student that
have to do a presentation for a class or something,
because there's oftentimes the wording is very odd, but it's
almost like people are trying to sound news person. Yeah,
but it's the it's at that point.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
It's the it's the automated progress, which I'm like, just
any human can read the Wikipedia page. It doesn't matter.
If someone's gonna like your voice, just read it.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Maybe they have a weird high voice maybe or a
strangely low voice. Well maybe, I mean I have a
fucking lisp.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
And and what's it called auto tune?

Speaker 1 (55:34):
No? What's it called when you when you have like
the thing, or you don't even or you're from California. Yeah,
I have a lisp in an auto tune.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Never had a problem with my voice this entire time
was auto tune.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
It would be tough, that would be tough to keep
it natural and would okay, yay, now I gotta be
told a story. I love going first because then I
get to sip back. I'm not going to be told
a story. You just get to relax. I went, I
don't know what I was doing. Here's what I actually did. Okay,
let me hear your process. Would you want to go

(56:10):
behind the scenes. I do, and just go behind the
music for a.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Second to do welcome pop up video time.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
I wanted to do a supernatural murder, but that's like
a made up thing it is, essentially, but that's what
I wanted. I just wanted to be a little bit
the planet a little bit, And so I eventually found
the story of a man named Carl Pruitt who found
and this was like in the thirties. He found his
wife in bed with another man. He strangles over a
rusty chain. Then he commits suicide. The family has him

(56:39):
buried far away. I wrote this whole fucking thing up
until I found buried far away. And then a kid
people start noticing that there are rings appearing on his gravestone. Rings,
rings and concentric rings that are linked like a chasically
like a chain. So a bunch of kids are playing

(57:02):
in the cemetery and they a boy throws a rock
at the headstone. Great place to play, by the way, Yeah,
that's where the good times are. He throws a rock
at the headstone, chips it. They all go to ride
their bikes home. He falls off his bike and the
bike chain wraps around the back and strangles him to time. Right,
So when the mother this is season two of Stranger Things,

(57:23):
the mother finds out and here's all the town gossip
of it was because he was he desecrated the headstone
of the killer of the chain Killer, and so she
goes down with an axe to take the headstone apart.
The next day she's found hanging in her own clothesline.
Oh my goodness. So then it basically goes on and on.

(57:45):
I'm like, this is the best, this is going to
be amazing. I get to the end of the article
and the person who wrote the article begins to deconstruct
ghost stories in America, and now, oh, this is fake,
Like Carl Prutt never existed, this person existed. Can't find
any of these people in any public record. And then
I had to start over. I was really mad because

(58:07):
it was so perfect, and yet it was such a
creepypasta like oh, and then then these people, every single
thing was someone strangled with the chain if they tried
to touch the headstone. Jesus, I don't know how.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
I don't know how you can find a murder that
gets you out of the murder world.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Well, no you can't. I'm just I don't even know
what I'm doing. So then I went all the way
in and I'm doing Son of Sam.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Oh that was not the direction I thought was gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
I just fucking turn that car around.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
But you know why, you know, I understand it's because
he doesn't mutilate anyone. That's right where it's almost like
he listen, murder is murder, and it's fucking horrible and
awful instn of sam as a monster. But when you
don't have to talk about someone it's for us. I
don't mean like they're certain murders, but when we don't
have to talk about women getting their boobs cut off, yes,

(58:57):
and being raped and savage much I'm doing right now,
it's almost like a relief.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
It is because it still qualifies and he's very famous
and everybody knows who he is. But he did he
was on a murder spree in the seventies that was
so strangely distant and odd disconnected, just totally disconnected and
yet very specific. He was like, I don't know if
a lot of people know this. I certainly didn't before
I started reading about it. He only shot women with long,

(59:26):
dark hair. No, I didn't know that. I didn't either.
He's a total fucking ted Bundy in that style. So
it's just interesting, like it's it's a it's definitely a
thing where you can dip in, but you don't have
to go into it.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
There's not even a stab, which which is there?

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Let me stop you, Okay, you know what, Why don't
you do your murder? And I'll stop because that's what's interesting.
So he also was the product of an elicit affair
and his mother gave him away right after he was
born to a couple named Pearl and Nathan Berkowitz who

(01:00:03):
lived in the Bronx. And he was a troubled youth.
Neighbors say he was a bully. He was he was
an asshole, He was really spoiled, he was really difficult,
and he from an early age began engaging in petty
larceny and arson arson. Right, So there's I couldn't find anything.

(01:00:28):
I actually looked it up specifically of like did something
happen to him that he never talked about. But his
mother died of breast cancer when he was fourteen. That's it, man,
that's got to be a huge well shock. Then his
father remarries. He doesn't like his new stepmother, so in
nineteen seventy one, when he's eighteen, he joins the army

(01:00:49):
and he serves for four years. He's given an honorary
discharge in nineteen seventy four, and while he's serving in
the army, he has his first and only sexual encounter
with sex. Huh. The result of that encounter gave him
a venereal disease. Shit, and the psychiatrist or whoever say

(01:01:11):
that after that, whoever word on the street was that
because of that experience specific experience, he became enraged with women.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Which we know can't be true. Like you had that
boiling down somewhere ready to burst. It's not like great
with women. And then you're like, oh, shit.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Crabs, No exactly right, Well, yeah, and that's probably not crabs.
I don't know, shit crabs. Women, it's already a problem.
He's one of those people that, yeah, if you're a
bully that doesn't get along and as an asshold everybody,
you're not also a lady killer. That's probably not happening, right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
I just love that they can blame it on this one,
like they're blaming it on the woman, right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
You know what I mean, which is just like, of course.
It's also when he gets out of the army, he
looks up his birth mother, and his birth mother explains
how she gave him away because he was illegitimate. A
forensic anthropologist, Elliot Layton described this as the primary crisis
of his life. Finding out that he was an illegitimate child,
that his father didn't want him shattered his sense of identity.

(01:02:22):
On top of that, the old vd NO crabs that
he started a spate of arson fires in the early seventies,
that he actually well, well we can talk about this later,
but that was his His first crime was arson and
he would go and light these fires all over the
Bronx and the surrounding area. If only I knew what

(01:02:46):
that what city is that in Manhattan? No, he kept
it over in like in his in the Bronx.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
He and burroughs other boroughs, other boroughs, and then he
burroughs Brooklyn. Let's say, Brooklyn, there's Queens.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
There's queens. Queens comes up quite a bit in this city.
Go to Long Island. I don't know. I doubt he
would make that drive. Okay, he did become a mailman.
So Christmas of nineteen seventy five he stabs two women
with a hunting knight on the streets of New York.
Citre Jesus. But they fight back. This is Christmas Eve night.
They fight back. And flee. He flees the scene. They're

(01:03:21):
not killed. Wow, that's his first attempt, and that's when
he switches over to a forty four caliber bulldog snubnosed shotgun. No,
we're none of a handgun a gun. It's a forty
four caliber gun that he uses for the rest of
his time. So July twenty ninth, nineteen seventy six, this
is in Pelham Bay. The Bronx one ten Am and

(01:03:42):
Donna Lauria who's eighteen, and Jody Valent who's nineteen, are
sitting in Jody Valente's car outside Donna Laurier's apartment and
they're talking about the night they just spent at Peach Trees,
which was the local disco. Oh Peach Trees. Oh, this
is if you see the movie Son of Sam, the
Spike Lee movie starring John Like Wizomo. It's actually really

(01:04:03):
hilarious and great because disco exploded like in this period
of time, and so, you know, around New York City
people were just at discos every night and that lifestyle
was like a big just like it's just clubbing, yes,
with disco music, it's clubbing with polyester.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Oh man, I'm so glad. I hope when we go
back in time, we don't end up there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
I mean, I can feather my hair, so I feel, okay,
it'd probably be a good disco queen. I might be good,
but I don't want I don't want to show my arms,
and that's going to be a big problem at the disco.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
I hate disco music and cocaine. So I feel like
i'd just be like in the sitting in the corner
and being like, can we.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Go We're such opposites, can we go to a dive bar? Please? Okay?
So they were at Peachtrees. They're sitting in the car
talking about it. Jody opens the car door to get
out to walk up to her house and sees a
man walking really fast toward the car. That's so scary
an image. It's so scary. A man walking fast towards you.

(01:05:04):
Was like, just punch at one in the morning, at
one in the morning, right outside your house. Hunch. He
pulls a forty four caliber handgun out of the paper bag,
kneels down, and fires five times into the car. Donal
Louria was hit in the neck and killed instantly. Jody v.
Lunt he was hit in the thigh and then she
leaned on the horn and the attacker turned and walked

(01:05:25):
quickly away, which is also creepy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Yeah that you don't run because you know not to run,
because that's suspicious.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Yep, you just walk quickly away like your business is
done here. Okay. So Jody describes him as a white
male in his thirties with a fair complexion, about five
nine weigh one hundred and sixty pounds, short, dark curly
hair in the quote mod style.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Good for her for knowing all that, like remembering all
these details.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
So also, Lauria's father also saw him and told the
police a similar looking man was sitting in a yellow
compact car wow all night. He had been cruising the
area hours before the shooting, and several neighbors actually saw
a man in a yellow car cruise in the area.
So about three months later, Carl Denaro, who was twenty,

(01:06:10):
and Rosemary Keenan the old Italian Irish Combinations Fire eighteen,
they were talking outside Keenan's house when, according to Keenan,
it felt like the car exploded. So what had happened
was that car was fired on five times. Naro Carl

(01:06:30):
de Naro, who's in the driver's seat, puts it into
driving speeds away, and only later do they realize he's
been shot in the head. Oh my god. He ended
up getting he survived. He ended up having to get
a plate in his head to replace the skull, the
part of his skull that was bow Wow. The police

(01:06:52):
did not attack, did not link this attack to the
Laura Valentia attack because they were in two different precincts,
so they were just separate shootings. Weird, right, crazy, Yeah,
but I mean this was New York in the late seventies,
so there was tons of crimes. Yeah, that's true. But
Rosemary Keenan's father was a New York City I can't

(01:07:13):
remember if his detective or a police officer, but basically,
once the daughter of one of their own, they turned
up the intensity on this specific investigation.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
And she didn't die. She didn't die.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Neither of them died, but they could They didn't have
that much evidence. There wasn't a lot to go on.
So a month later, Donna Demassi and Joanne Lomino had
just walked home from a movie theater and they were
talking on Joanne's front porch and they see a man
in army fatigues approaching them. Well, I guess it's like Vietnam,
so it's not that weird. I mean, not really. But

(01:07:49):
here's what's weird. I hate he's asking for directions in
a high pitched voice before he finished it, so he
starts asking the question before he finishes a sentence. He
pulls out the gun and shoots both of them. Donna
was shot in the neck but recovered. Joanne's hitting a
spine and she was paralyzed. A neighbor claims to have

(01:08:11):
seen a blonde man running away from the scene clutching
a gun. Okay, So, January thirtieth, nineteen seventy seven, this
is at the Forest Hills Long Island Railroad station in
Queen's at two forty in the morning. Christina Frond and
her fiancee John Deel had just seen Rocky and they
were about to go to a disco. It's at a
dance hall in Wikipedia, but I would assume that means

(01:08:33):
a disco, and as they're sitting in the car, three
gun shots. Someone shoots into the car three times in
a panic, deal drives away. He suffered minor superficial injuries,
but Christina Frond was shot. A friend was shot twice
and died several hours later in the hospital. Neither of

(01:08:53):
them saw their attacker. So now the police make their
first public acknowledgment that the front Deal shooting was similar
to the other incidents and all of the crimes could
be associated because all of the victims had been struck
with forty four caliber bullets. The shootings seemed to target
young women with long black hair, and the police announced

(01:09:15):
that they were looking for multiple suspects.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Can you imagine, like, let's say that happen right now
in la If that was going on.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
I wouldn't want to leave the house. Do you know that?
Actually it wasn't here, but it was a little while
later after a couple more of these murders, when they
when that fact of that it was women with long,
dark hair. There was a rush on women getting their
hair cut really short, like Dorothy Hamill and died lighter.

(01:09:46):
And that's why that trend. I mean, like that's in
New York City. All women got their hair cut and died.
And they said that there was a shortage of wigs
at beauties supply stores because everyone was just going batshit,
like in one day. Once they made that announcement, everyone
got their hair cut. Yeah, I love that idea, Okay.
So March eighth, Columbia College is still nineteen seventy seven.

(01:10:08):
At seven thirty in the evening, Virginia Vokes Shirt Vokes
Scherichian walks home from her classes at Columbia. A man
walks toward her, and when he gets close, he pulls
out a gun and fires into her face. She put
up her books to protect herself, but she was killed
instid and moments later a neighbor, one of her neighbors,

(01:10:32):
rounds the corner. He hears the gunshots, and then he
nearly collides with the person who just He described as
a short, husky boy age sixteen to eighteen, clean shaven,
wearing a sweater and a watchcap, sprinting away from the scene,
and other neighbors matching that same description reported a teenager

(01:10:57):
loitering in the area for about an hour for the shooting.
In the following days, the media report police claims that
this quote chubby teenager was the suspect. There are no
direct witnesses to her murder, and she lived about a
block away from where Christine Freud and her fiancee John
Deal were shot. March tenth, nineteen seventy seven, NYPD holds

(01:11:19):
a press conference stating that the weapon used in Virginia
Volksshire Cherians Voscar Richians I think is Voscar Richians murder
is also a forty four Bulldog, the same weapon used
in all the other shootings. And of course this whole story,

(01:11:40):
the New York Daily News and the Post go crazy
on the on the daily it's just constant, constant R page.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
And what's it called fearmongering? Well you should be very advising.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
Yeah, well, I mean they were finally like justified. It
also went international. They were naming there's the name in
the Wikipedia article, like all the you know, the Vatican
had a article about it in the Vatican newspaper or whatever.
So April seventeenth, this is a month later, basically in
the Bronx. It's three am and Valentina Suriani, who's eighteen,

(01:12:13):
and Alexander Esau who's twenty, are sitting in Valentina's car kissing,
and each one is shot twice. Soriani died instantly, Esau
died a few hours later in the hospital. And it's
again it's a forty four and they were only parked
a few blocks away from the Lauria Valenti shooting. So
then at the crime scene they find a handwritten letter

(01:12:37):
and it's from the killer and it's addressed to police
Captain Joseph Birelli. And this is where the name son
of Sam comes from. Is this letter? So basically it reads,
I'll do I'm just going to do pieces. Because it's
really long, it starts out, I am deeply hurt by

(01:12:57):
you're calling me a woman hater. I am not, but
I am a monster. I am the son of Sam.
I am a little brat when father When Father Sam
gets drunk, he gets mean. He beats his family. Sometimes
he ties me up to the back of the house.
Other times he locks me in the garage. Sam loves
to drink blood, go out and kill commands Father Sam

(01:13:19):
behind our house. Some rest. I don't know this at all.
It's just fucking crazy nonsers. Yeah, but it ends like this.
I want to make love to the world. I love people.
I don't belong on earth. Return me to Yahoos, fuck
to the people of Queen's. I love you, and I

(01:13:41):
want to wish all of you a happy Easter. The ship.
May God bless you in this life and in the
next and for now, I say goodbye and good night police.
Let me haunt you with these words, I'll be back.
I'll be back to be interrupted, to be interpreted as
bang bang bang bank bang uugh yours in murder, mister monster.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
So I am that is I can't even Yeah, it's nuts.
That was like even scarier to them that were like, oh,
we're not This isn't a calculated person. This is a
fucking lunatic. How are we going to track down a
lunatic because you can't use logic?

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
That's right. Also, yeah, that that wasn't mailed or it
was left at the murder scene. So it's somebody that
kills people and then drops something intentionally. Totally all of
it is he's them, Yeah, Jesus. So several psychiatrists are
consulted and there's a psychological profile drawn up based on

(01:14:42):
this letter, and he's described as neurotic, probably suffering from
paranoid schizophrenia, who believes himself to be the victim of
demonic possession. So May thirtieth, nineteen seventy seven, So at
that time, the Daily News had a columnist, very famous
man named Jimmy Breslin who's like super famous in New York,
A lot of people out, not that many people outside

(01:15:04):
know him, but he was like he was like one
of those like tough, you know reporters of New York
that I was, you know, hard boiled he was. I
would call him hard boil.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
Yeah, out, someone call me hard boiled.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
One day they will, they will. So the son of
Sam sends Jimmy Breslin a letter, Oh shit, And on
the back of the envelope he wrote the phrases blood
and family, darkness and death, absolute depravity, and just forty
four with a dot in front of him, so like

(01:15:36):
forty four caliber. And then I'll just read you how
it starts, because it's it's just more blather, but it starts.
Hello from the gutters of nm C, which are filled
with dog manure, vomit, stale wine, urine, and blood. I mean,
is he wrong? I know he's fucking dead on It's summertime,
so he's probably very frustrated, right, Hello from the sewers
of NYC, which swallow up these delicacies when they are

(01:15:58):
washed away. Jesus by this sweeper tracks Hello from the
cracks and the sidewalks of NYC, and from all the
ants that dwell in these cracks and feed in the
dried blood of the dead that is set settled into
these cracks. This is poetry, is it? JB. I'm just
dropping you a line to let you know that I
appreciate your interest in those recent and horrendous forty four

(01:16:18):
caliber killings. I also want to tell you that I
read your column daily and I find it quite informative.
Tell me, jim, what will you have for July twenty nine?
Mm hmm? See this one? He seems smart, right, almost
as if he might be putting on and ask sure
of some kind? Okay? So the Daily News publishes this

(01:16:42):
letter a week after they get it, with a column
from Jimmy Breslin urging the killer to surrender himself. And
this article made that day's paper the highest selling edition
of the Daily News ever. They sold more than one
point one million. Wow. Uh oh. And it's after that

(01:17:02):
that with Jimmy Breslum's column. This is when all the
women get their haircut, which I don't that's in the
movie too, Yeah, and it's hilarious. I saw it when
it came out, but I don't remember. It's Yeah, it's
a good movie. I liked it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
I just remember that from Ted Bundy too, like didn't
a bunch of girls? Yes, who had the same haircut?
Hell yeah, change the fucking shit out, hey.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
Highlights everybody? Yeah, how about a high highlight, Bob? Yeah right.
I also love Son of Summer of Sam the movie
because it's it's almost entirely focused on disco. Yeah. The
murders almost seem like an after The murders.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
Almost seem like they're powering disco, you know what I mean.
Like disco is a response to the murders.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
That's right, Or disco is because the murders are creating disco.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Listen, John, Like Wizamo is a just a dream?

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
Listen, did you want to finish that? Look? Okay? Look,
oh no, that's it. I interrupted you to then say nothing. Okay.
So now we're in June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy seven.
This is in Bayside, Queens. So yeah, it's like for
people I am from California. So when we talk about

(01:18:17):
all these different parts of all these different boroughs in
New York, Queens, is a borough Baize is a part
of Queen's okay right right, neighbor the Bronx is a borough,
and then the part of the Bronx that I was
talking before, the Forest Hills, Long Island, the Upper east
Side is part of Manhattan. Yeah, it's own neighborhood, right, Yeah,
Manhattan's a borough, and then the Upper east Side part

(01:18:38):
of that Brook Williamsburg is like, let's go on for
an hour and neighborhood. I'm going to say the wrong
thing for sure, here and all it can picture the
people I know who live in New York being very
mad at me. Well, do I think they're better than us? Also,
maybe I'm doing it for attention. Maybe I want you
to be mad at me. Maybe I like it all right.

(01:18:58):
The morning of June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy seven, it's
three am. Judy Placido and sal Loupo, which that I
think Saloopo might have been the main character in Summer
of Sam. Oh, it just sounds familiar to Okay, but
I could be making it up. No, I trust you
on name recognition. This is where that all falls bar Yeah, Okay.
They have just left the Elephis Disco and they're sitting

(01:19:21):
in the car and the cars hit by three three
gun gunshot blasts. So Salupo is wounded in the right forearm.
Judy Palasido is shot in the right temple, in the
shoulder and in the back of the neck. They both survive,
which is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
Incredible, these people who are surviving these mortal up close
gun blass. Yeah, it's bananas, It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
So sal Lupo tells the police they had just been
discussing the case of Son of Sam right before the
gunshots hit. Okay, So, so about a month later, it's
July thirty first, nineteen seventy seven. Stacey Moskowitz, who doesn't
know skit Stacey Moscowitz, and I mean, like the second

(01:20:09):
I read that name, I was like, I went to
junior high whatever. So Stacey and her boyfriend Bobby Violante
are taking a walk in the park late at night,
very brave, but they go back to their car when
they see a man watching them. Oh no. But then
when they get back into the car, they were so
into each other that they start making out, so they
don't leave right away. They're kissing in the car when

(01:20:32):
they're hit by bullets. Stacy Moskowitz was shot once in
the head. Bobby Violante had been shot twice in the face,
Stacy was killed, while Bobby Violante would survive, but he
lost most of his vision, but he survived from being
shot in the head.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
So these people in the fucking burrows have some survivability.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
It's for real. I mean, it's the New York City baby, yeah,
uh okay. So this is the shooting that brings out
the most witnesses of any of the other Son of
Sam murders. There was actually a direct eyewitness. So during
the shooting, nineteen year old Tommy Zeno was parked three
cars down or three cars in front of Bobby Violante's vehicle,

(01:21:15):
and moments before the shooting, Xeno caught peripheral glimpse of
the shooter's approach and then happened to glance in his
rear view mirror just in time to see the actual shooting.
Oh my god. He clearly saw the perpetrator for several
seconds due to a bright street light in the full moon,
and later described him as being twenty five to thirty
years old, five foot seven to five foot nine inches,

(01:21:36):
with shaggy hair that was dark blonde or light brown,
but he said that the shooter's hair looked like a wig.
So about a minute after the shooting. A woman in
her boyfriend's car on the other side of the park
saw a white male wearing a light colored sheep nylon
wig sprinting out of the park and get into a
small and he got into a small, light colored car

(01:21:58):
that drove away. And she said he looked just like
he just robbed a bank. And she also got part
of his license. Wow. Four gur or four GVR. There
were other witnesses, one including a woman who saw light
cars speed away from the park twenty seconds after the gunshots,
and at least two witnesses who described a yellow Volkswagen

(01:22:19):
driving quickly from the neighborhood with its lights off. One
of a neighborhood residents here's the gunshots. Here's Bobby Violante's
calls for help. Glances out her apartment window to see
a man walking casually away from the crime scene while
everyone else was running toward the sounds of the screaming
and I'm I'm so excited right now. This is like

(01:22:41):
but so ten yes, and multiple other residents, so he
was seen by tons of people that night. They witnessed
a scruffy looking man with dark stringing hair and stubble
driving a small yellow car recklessly away from the scene.
He almost crashed into a car. He ran a red light,
almost crashed into the guy. The guy started following him

(01:23:02):
because he was so pissed that the guy almost killed him,
but he he could only he only followed him so
far and then he lost him, and then later he
found that it was son of Sam Okay. So on
the same night, local resident Cecilia Davis is walking her dog.
This is this is like the woman that brings it

(01:23:24):
all together, which I love. Cecilia. She's walking her dog
at the scene of the Mosquit's Violante shooting. So she
sees patrol officer Michael Catano ticket a car, a yellow
car by a fire hydrant. And then moments after that
cop left, a young man walks past her and studies

(01:23:45):
her with some interest, and she feels concerned because he's
got a dark object in his hand, so she she
said he was wielding a dark object. She doesn't know
what it is. She just runs home, only to hear
shots fired moments later, so she calls the police. She
doesn't say anything for four days, and then she calls

(01:24:05):
the police and they start checking every car that got
ticketed that night in that area. Fucking chances man.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
And not only did they ticket it, but someone saw
it happen, yep, and then knew about the murders.

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
And someone saw what she saw happen was a guy
that gave her weird vibe totally, and then she put
all of it together where it's like, yeah, you got
away from the man that was endangering you, then you
stayed with it, missed something, and then reported it totally.
Love it. Way to go to Cecilia and her dog Marty.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
Most of the dog Marty, I'm so excited that that
was actually the dogs made.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
I'm like, oh, sorry, it's dance okay. So the next
day police investigate. They go and they check Berkowitz's car.
It's one of the several that got ticketed that night,
and they see it's parked outside his apartment building building
at thirty five Pine Street in Yonkers, and they see
there's a rifle in the backseat. What uh huh, how'd

(01:25:09):
your rifle? Yeah? Right, So they search the car. They're like,
that's probable cause. They search the car and they find
a duffel bag filled with the ammunition, maps of the
crime scenes, a threatening letter addressed to Inspector Timothy Dowd
of the Omega Task Force. So they know they probably
have their man, so they put in a request for

(01:25:30):
a search warrant, but they know they they're very concerned
with going into his apartment without having it because they
don't want to lose the case, so they stand out.
They wait outside David Berkowitz's apartment until ten o'clock at night,
and when he comes out and gets into his car,
and he had a paper bag with him and that

(01:25:52):
forty four was inside the back. Oh my god. He
gets in the car, sits down, and then Detective John
fell Allatico approaches the driver's side and puts the gun
right against right next to Berkowitz's temple, and the detective
Sergeant William Gardella covers from the passenger side with his
gun inside the car, and David Berkowitz has taken into

(01:26:14):
custody for the son of Sam murders. They say it's
reported that he was very calm and very serene, almost
seemed happy. Wow. So when they search his apartment the
next day, Apartment seventy, they find the walls are covered
in satanic graffiti. The whole apartment is a complete mess.
There's liquor bottles everywhere. And they also find three stenographers

(01:26:37):
notebooks where Berkowitz had meticulously recorded hundreds of arson fires
that he had set hundreds. Yes, he had been recording
it since he was twenty one. Some sources allege that
the number of arson fires he recorded was over fourteen hundred. Yeah,
does he recorded or set? Well? He wrote them into

(01:26:59):
the notebooks, and they believe that they correspond to real
fires that happened around Oh my god, the Bronx and
Queens and Manhattan, Manhattan, Brooklyn. Don't for certainly, don't forget
Long Island is Long Island a burrow, I think, So
what about Coney Islands? I think that's a neighborhood. And

(01:27:22):
what about the islands where the Statue of Liberty lives?
Oh you mean, uh, Liberty Island, Freedom Island? All right now,
people are legit mad, angry, like even they even they know.
He is questioned for half an hour and then immediately
cops to everything and explains to the cops in great

(01:27:43):
detail all of the crimes that he perpetrated. And when
they ask him why, he says, his neighbor Sam Carr's
black lab Harvey was possessed by an ancient demon, and
Harvey made him do it because he wanted the blood
of pretty young girls.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
What yeah, so wait, okay, so that's why he called
himself son of Sam is the neighbor's name was Sam.

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
Sam Carr and Sam Carr's dog like it was he
was But I don't get it. So but later on,
so you know, I've been listening to the audio book
of Those Who Fight Monsters, which is the guy from
the who basically started the FBI VI cap all that
John E. Douglas I think his name is, But he

(01:28:34):
interviewed David Berkowitz years later when they were putting together
there when they decided they were going to start profiling
serial killers so they could get profiles of them whatever.
But he basically got David Burgers to admit that all
of this shit was fake. The whole thing about the
dog talking to him and everything was completely sorry, it

(01:28:56):
was completely made up so that he didn't seem responsible
and that he could get off on the insanity plea.
And it was purely because he was so angry at women.
He had never had success with women. He was an
angry man. He was very angry. He was very like
a spoiled child. I think it was that thing he
didn't know how to handle. He wasn't it wasn't his

(01:29:18):
fault and didn't get it. Yeah, and so he just
wanted everyone to pay for his loneliness and lack of popularity.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
Which seems like such a narrative of a lot of
spree killers that are just like they feel entitled and
they're pissed off that everyone else doesn't know that they
should be getting everything they want.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
It makes me think of that boy in Santa Barbara.
They just thinking of all those kids in Santa Barbara.
It's the exact same thing where everybody else, it's not
anything that has to do with them. They don't take
any personal responsibility. It's everybody else that everyone else has
to pay right. It's I guess narcissism, and you know
it's a lot of game. Yeah, fucked up shit anyway.

(01:30:02):
He basically he is tried, found guilty on June's twelfth,
nineteen seventy eight. He sentenced to six life terms, totaling
a maximum of three hundred and sixty five years in prison.
They send him to Attica. In nineteen eighty seventy, becomes
a born again Christian. Good luck with that. And before
his first parole hearing in two thousand and two, he

(01:30:22):
sent a letter to the Governor of New York. But
he lived out. How did I He was still alive.
I'm sorry, he's still alive. Still alive. Yeah, he was
only in his thirties when he was prison Put him
to death or something. No, it's he admitted to everything,
so they didn'tive him the death right.

Speaker 2 (01:30:41):
Okay, go on, Jesus Christ just blew my mind. I
know it's not crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
He sent a letter to George Pataki, who is the
governor of New York at the time, asking to have
his parole hearing canceled. He said, in all honesty, I
believe I deserve to be in prison for the rest
of my life. I have, with God's help, long ago,
come to terms with my situation, and I've accepted my punishment. Wow.
Then in nineteen ninety three he went into this weird

(01:31:08):
thing where he was claiming to be responsible for Satanic
cult killings. I think he may have gotten bored. He
was trying to say that he didn't he wasn't the
only one responsible for the Son of Sam murders, that
there were other people, and it was because of this
satanic cult and blah blah blah. And when that story

(01:31:28):
came out, Jimmy Breslin himself made this statement. When they
talked to David Berkowitz that night, which is like the
night he got arrested. He recalled everything step by step
by step. The guy has one thousand percent recall and
that's it. He's the guy and there's nothing else to
look at for sure. So wow, he's your son of

(01:31:51):
Stan hitter heavy hitter, which I always avoid because it's
so much research, so I know I miss big things.
And you know, sorry, Spike Lee.

Speaker 2 (01:32:00):
I was going to do a heavy hitter this week actually,
or like I was going to. I was gonna do
a heavy hitter this week. You know the thing where
you're like, should I get this one or should I
do that one?

Speaker 1 (01:32:08):
I finished this.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
One out maybe one yes, and then it was just like, no, Georgia,
you need more than sixteen hours before you decide to
do a heavy hitter.

Speaker 1 (01:32:17):
I mean, you really do. And I think my Wikipedia
recitation proves that. Yeah. No, that was great. People that
shoot from a distant like there is something very I mean,
obviously we're saying this it's just so lame. It's just
so cowardly. Yeah, to like stand from a distance and
shoot a person and then just be like, I am
the son of Sam.

Speaker 2 (01:32:37):
It's emotionally detached in a way that you don't expect
from most sterial killers, right, who are just like in
it for the suffering and seeing the suffering of others.

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
Yeah, he was. He wanted to end lives because it
was about his failures as a man. Right, he could
have been a mafia hit man. Yeah, fucking painted his
apartment and got a shit together.

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
It's tough listening to dogs. Yeah, poor dog was like, dude,
I fucking love everyone. Don't bring me into this bitch
all I want our treats.

Speaker 1 (01:33:11):
I just want them to bring me inside everyone's while.
Let's not barking. Why am I in the back? Give
me a scratch behind the ear every once in a
blue and then don't bring me into your story. I'm
not satanic, I am. I love the idea of being
possessed by an ancient demon.

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
Yeah, not a recent demon. I mean the dog maybe
was an ancient demon. But it was also like, but
I'm past that, I'm born again.

Speaker 1 (01:33:32):
Yeah, he'd gotten healthy.

Speaker 2 (01:33:34):
Yeah, well, shit, man.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
That's that. Man, we're back. We're off the road for
a little while. You mean a week? Yeah, but still yeah, sorry,
I just really bummed you out there. I don't know.
I'm looking forward.

Speaker 2 (01:33:52):
To the you know, Detroit, Toronto. That's gonna be fun.
And then we're just doing these like fun low weekends
of like cools.

Speaker 1 (01:33:59):
Yeah, weekends are good. It's a weekend. That's that's the
enjoyable time. Get in, we get out. Yeah, we have
our fun, we get out. Yeah. Well I think should
we say one thing that makes us happy?

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:34:10):
Good, idea?

Speaker 2 (01:34:11):
Is it sleeping all week? Because that's mine? Oh dude, sleeping?
Can it be either has to do something?

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Oh my new car?

Speaker 2 (01:34:19):
Oh yeah yeah, can that be mine? This is okay.
This is the first new car I've ever had in
my life.

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
It feels so luxurious. It's a Toya Corolla, which is
my first car I ever had, and my first my
hand me down, shitty little car that was just like
the most basic you could get at the time. And
this one has like fucking a moon roof and a
fucking and automatic like your seat moves automatically.

Speaker 1 (01:34:47):
I've never had a car shapes it to you as
you get in.

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
Yeah, or it has like the when you need to
move it forward, it's just like you don't have to
you know, you have to do that while you're driving
an accidently almost hit your face on a steering wheel
or cry right or crash. Yeah, it has like it
has adult things that I never thought I would ever
have in my life. But it's a Toyota, so it
wasn't fucking crazy expensive as a couch warmer, which is

(01:35:11):
like to me, the next level of fucking class.

Speaker 1 (01:35:14):
You can have those all the time. You just you
don't have to wait to get into your car. What
do you mean you can fucking slip something. You can
do an icy hot pass right into your underwear.

Speaker 3 (01:35:24):
You trying to get me a right, It's just like
it feels it feels grown up, and I'm like, I
didn't think i'd ever care about it something like this,
and I'm really just like.

Speaker 1 (01:35:38):
Pleased and grateful. It's great. It's it's nice. It's nice
to like be like, oh I earned something, Yeah I
earned it. I think I earned it, and I'm really
happy about it. Yeah it's good. Yeah, I guess mine
would be. So this this is Thursday, So tomorrow night,
I am playing a show with my friends the band

(01:36:00):
Sure Sure. He is satellite in LA So if you
live in the LA area, Steven and I will be there.
These guys are coming. I think I only can only
put one name on the guests. I'm coming, Okay, But
if you are around and want, I absolutely guarantee that
you will love this band. Sure Sure. They are so
fucking good they're going to be famous.

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
I just played them for me and I was like,
it was one of those things where like this reminds
me of a little of this, and it was all
like classic bands that you love.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Yes, it's really fucking good. Yeah, it's not. I told
them because we did a show together like four years ago,
and it was just because my friend Kevin is in
the band, and he was like, do you want to
do a show with us? And I told him. After
the show, I was like, I was so scared to
see your band, because when do you go see a
band and you're like that was the best thing ever?
It's not that often.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
Yeah, it's intimidating when you go see not intimidating when
you go see a friend who's like, come see me
do this thing. You're like all right, and you're like,
oh my god, you're so talented.

Speaker 1 (01:36:58):
Yes, it's just so excite, and people are great and
there their music is just so listenable. I mean I've
I've already given the recommendation. But and you're playing music, right,
and I am opening for them. Yeah, So I'm going
to do a couple of my old moldy oldies.

Speaker 2 (01:37:13):
You have some you have some like classic songs, and then
you have some comedy songs too, right, Yeah, are you going.

Speaker 1 (01:37:18):
To do I don't think I have classic songs. You
don't do a lot of like well, then you have
like sad ones songs like like a good Bye Yellow
Bick Road.

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
Yeah no, just like not not outright comedy.

Speaker 1 (01:37:31):
Some of my comedy songs make you sad exactly. Yeah,
but I can still hide behind the comedy part, So
that's good. Yeah, I'm only going to do a handful.
If I was at the show and someone did like
if there, I would be like, get off the day.
I just want to see this band, please, So I
need to see you play. I'm excited to play because
I haven't done it in a while.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
I haven't seen you play since i've known you.

Speaker 1 (01:37:54):
Oh yeah, you got it. I did a show, that's right.
I did a show when we were in Denver I
got to do for the High Planes Comedy Festival. I
got to go do a variety show after our show,
which was super fun, and a bunch of people that
were at our show came to that show too, and
I thought it was going to be kind of shitty
because I hadn't played publicly in a really long time,

(01:38:17):
and it was super fun. So I'm super looking forward
to it. But more than that, if you like good music,
I would recommend being at this show. I think, Yeah,
I think it's gonna I'm excited. I mean, Stephen, how
long was that? Steven? Steven? Fuck? I liked this episode. Yeah,

(01:38:37):
that's a good one. Yeah, thanks for listening. I don't know.
I feel like it's a sign off.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
Yeah, great with you subscribe and it's like, well you've
already done that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:46):
Yeah, you do that so much. We appreciate that. It's
so nice. Thank you guys for listening, Thank you for
being here with us, and stay sexy and don't get murdered.
Bye bye, just get out of the kap box. Hey, well,
cook you a cookie? Oh the yeah, Elvis.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
One my cookie okay, my cookie, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:39:11):
He's like, what do I do? I don't know how
you keep asking me