Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 33: What About Mimi? - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Last day.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello, Hello, welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
A rewind if it's fine, it's Wednesday, and that means
we're recapping one of our old shows with all new commentary,
all new updates, which I don't think there can be
old updates, and insights about one of the old shows
we did.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Long of that's right, one of the old epps. And
today we're looking back at episode thirty three, which we
actually named what About Me Me.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
She's been a big part of this podcast for nine
whole years, that meme.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
That's right. She's holding on too.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
She's living through it. Her and Frank, so join us
today as we take you back to the two hundred
and fifty second day of twenty sixteen. That's right, Thursday, September.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Eighth, and now we can all be day one listener.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
So let's listen to the intro of episode thirty three,
What about Mimi?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Hi? That's how we started it this week.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Hi everybody, Hi, are you there? Hello?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Hey, that's Karen.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Who's this?

Speaker 2 (01:19):
That's Karen?

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Oh, and that's Georgia.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you answer our voices if you can't tell them apart, Oh, yeah,
you do yours Okay, Hi, this is Georgia. I gasp
into the microphone a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Hi, this is Karen I sing and it lie And
this is my Favorite Murder, which is a podcast where
we talk about murders that happen that interest us and
intrigue uts and hopefully make your time at work in
the swimming pool or on a darkened road while you

(01:52):
take a walk, go buy a little bit faster.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Hey, you're welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Goodbye.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Hey, that was it.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
It's such an effort to do like an official beginning
of this fucking pod.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Let's get into it. Let's fucking get into it.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Let's pass it all by.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
He's keeping well, So Jacob, okay, so this is the
thing we wanted to talk about that I said, don't
fucking talk to me about and tell our podcast that right,
which very stern. I'm very stern. So Jacob Weterling fat
that has bought this. What is her thirteen year old
kid who went.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
He was kidnapped. He was kidnapped. It was him, his
brother and a friend. They were riding their bikes to
the store and a guy held them a gunpoint and
told the other two to run away and took.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Jacob nineteen eighty nine, which we have said many times
that the eighties aren't going to be under arrest for
being fucking shitty.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
It was not a good time for us as children.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, speaking of I just watched a documentary that is
now on Netflix over the weekend called Who Took Johnny.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
I stared at that all weekend, going watch it, Karen,
this is supposed to be your thing, And I couldn't
bring myself to watch why because I've heard them talk
about it all last last podcast and it is so
dark and it's so creepy, and it is so not
your average kidnapping. I just didn't want to have to
take it in.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
I agree, there's a lot of information. The thing I
took away from it, hold on, Johnny, I'm fucking reading.
The thing I took away from it is that his mother,
and like this is the only positive thing, is the
biggest badass in the fucking world. So the whole thing,

(03:30):
like kind of centers follows her around and what she
had to go through, like when her son got kidnapped,
and when the police seventy two hour waiting period for
this little boy who in the dark on his paper
route in the morning, his papers were left behind his
adorable doc sund which was left behind, which why would

(03:53):
you do that? And they said they thought he ran away.
So she had to go to great lengths for years
and years and became an advocate just like John Walsh's
without a TV show for children, And it's amazing what
she's done.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
I can't, I can't take it in.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
You gotta watch it.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
And I just am so tired. I'm so tired.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
No, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, but the Franklin cover up it comes into play.
It's so hard to believe. I have such a hard
time with so many of these. Like there's two things.
One of them is that a guy gets arrested and
says that he was one of the people who took
Johnny Gosh and he became a sex slave. And the
other thing is that the mom says that she saw

(04:38):
him Johnny as an adult came to her door, and
those two things, like, if you believe them both, it's
a fucking insane story. If you don't, then it's a
fucking insane story because people are crazy.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, everything about it is, you know, it's if it
was just everything way of just the facts that you
actually know it's an intense tragedy of just a child disappearing.
It's the it's the worst case scenario, because then you're
a grieving parent who never gets relief and what that
might do to you. But then there's also the thing

(05:15):
of it's just like I think the reason people like
stranger things or whatever, it's that thing of, well, then
you must be crazy if you are in grief to
this degree. Yeah, you And of course with the mothers,
with women, it's always you're crazy. And so a woman
trying to get answers and get her child help and
get some action when she's being deemed crazy, which is

(05:37):
the ultimate stamp that people can negate you and your
voice with.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, she was saying, that's happening like men, men are stern,
but women are shrill. You know.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
It's the patriarchy. It's the butts of the standard bullshit.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
And yet she was able to change laws and be
an advocate for children who have gone missing and and
her grief into something useful and worthwhile, not that grief
is not those things.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
But no, that's great, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
That's she's amazing. Uh, Yeah, I definitely. I know. It's
a hard it's a hard case. But it's a really good,
fine watchumentary. Fine, fine, fine, I quit your four jobs
that you have and stay home and watch Who Took Johnny?

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Here's what I did to and but sorry. We started
that by mentioning that Jacob wetterlings remains were finally found,
so his parents have rest. And there was a lot
of people who sent us that. It makes me really
happy that people send us those articles and they're so,
you know, enthusiastically like, oh, it's such a nice idea
to think that after all these years, those at least,

(06:48):
at the very least those parents have a little bit
of rest. Yeah, and a little bit like it just
at least they know where he is.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Well. I was so I read that about him being found,
and they hadn't released a lot of detas tales about it.
Now that there's more stuff coming out, like who like
the guy confessed to it and that's how I found
the body. But so the whole time I was watching
Who Took Johnny? I was just and all these twists
and turns that maybe was this, and it could have
been this, and he might be still alive in an
adult and all these things, and I couldn't help but

(07:17):
just like picture this sad his bones buried somewhere remote
and he has in the exact same way he looked
when he got taken. And these crazy stories of what
happened that are just not true, and in the meantime,
these lonely bones somewhere. It just made me sad. I know,

(07:39):
it's it's so tragic. It's heavy, heavy shit.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
That's why I'm going to clumsily segue now into my
next piece of housekeeping, because let's just let's not live
there forever.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Sorry, did it get too dark?

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Not at all. No, this is what we this is
what we like, but we can't just like you know,
we have to do it. Yeah, I have an apology
to make for anyone who heard me talk shit about
the British procedural Rosemary and Time, because what I did
this weekend was watch probably twenty episodes of Rosemary and Time,

(08:15):
which is a hilarious. It's not supposed to be hilarious,
but I found it so enjoyable, so relaxing. It's two
like middle aged British women who are gardeners and they
keep getting hired. It's very murder she Roadie makes ever,
there's two of them and these two are so enjoyable
to watch the murders, which is ludicrous. There's always two murders.

(08:39):
Everywhere they go. People are dropping like flies. No one cares,
they're never suspected. But half of more than half of
the show takes place in the most gorgeous gardens you've
ever seen, so there's a real like you can see
them aiming at like probably like a sixty year old
lady who's going to sit in her chair at night,
nit eat some candy and watch this sh show.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
It sounds fucking amazing.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
I was that lady this weekend and I fucking loved it.
I was so relaxed. You have to see it. It's
but one time someone asked me about British procedurals and
someone recommended Rosemary in Time, And oh was I flippant
about how that was Grandma Grandma crime show. And I
don't care. Well, I apologize whoever I said that to you.

(09:22):
I am one thousand percent wrong. I love Rosemary Time
with the best of them, and Pam Ferris, and oh,
I wrote their names down because Felicity Kendall and Pam
Ferris are the two stars. They're so goddamn good. And
Pam Ferris went on to star in a show called
Call the Midwife, which.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I also love a lot, which want was she.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
She is the nun that wears the habit all the time.
She's like all business nuns. Yeah, it's like she looks
like everyone in my family.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
I love that show Call the Midwife.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
I love Call the Midwife. And she's she's like, holds
it down on there. So she's been on British TV
for like forty years.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
It sounds like a combination of murder, she wrote, and
the Great British Bakeoff, Yes.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Where you're just kind of being soothed by British voices,
a little violence, gorgeous flowers.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
I mean you can't have one without the.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Other, and you shouldn't. And also they what I love
is in a British procedural, you will watch them casually
drinking tea. And I just love the fact that people
like cut out time in the days now drink tea
and eat cookies.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Think there's Boerman in there.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
I am. I just saying that because I just had Bourman,
and I mean it's probably everywhere, I mean deep down,
I mean, as you on, Uh, this is all just
like vodka, Hunderd Grain vodka.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Other housekeeping housekeeping.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
I think the Rosemary and Time apology was my number
one housekeeping pretty much this week.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
That was correction corner.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, that was a huge correction because also once again
I've gotten it wrong with England.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Oh hey, we're in Entertainment Weekly. Oh hey, guess what's right?

Speaker 1 (11:03):
We just found this out tonight.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Someone very nice, HEEROI I'll look them up. They were
like a stage mom that I've never had that gave
a ship where they it's D Train. Of course, D
Train's there for a QD train at D Train writes, hey,
did you see this show in Entertainment Weekly? Congrats? And
the answer was no, we absolutely have not. We didn't

(11:28):
know it was going to be in there. We're in
there with Atlas Obscuro, which is a rad website. We're
in there. Was a band called Sunlit Youth.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
I'm sure young people love them.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
I'm sure that they're cool. It's like a bunch of
dudes in stretched out white T shirts with really sparse
facial hair.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Can I read you my textics? Change about it with
my dad please? So I send him the photo that
D Train sent us, and I said, my podcast is
an entertainment weekly, because you know, the only thing that
seems legitimate is if are on television or in a magazine.
That's right, Like, it doesn't matter if you're on the website,
that's right. And he said, OMG, wonderful, very proud of you,

(12:07):
go girl, Marty. Then he said comedian. I like the
sound of that, and I said me too, And he said,
is this on Facebook? I'd like to share it, Daddy.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
That's your job. Dad, Thanks, Dad, go ahead and throw
that up on Facebook with a baby picture. Let's see it.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
Well, that's funny because I texted my sister, Adrian and Audrey,
who are my hometown posse and all fans of the show.
Not Laura. She doesn't listen to it.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Your sister doesn't go.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
She's like, I don't have time a fuck. And I
literally have told her when she can listen to him,
like when you drive after you drop off your daughter.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
My sister in law's the only one who listens to
it in my family, Like my not related person is
the only one can hear my voice, and I love it,
hate me.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Well, Audrey and Audrey and Adrian both totally listened to it.
So I went onto our NonStop constant group text and
just went, hey, you guys, look, we're in Entertainment Weekly.
No one answered for a while, and then Adrian responded,
what magazine is that? I'm like, I don't make me
fuck say wow? And then no one answered for a while,

(13:16):
and then I had written will someone please go buy
one and give it to my dad? And so then
nobody answers for a while, and then Adrian comes back
and goes, Laura, are you on that? You're like hello, yeah,
And I was like this is classic. And then I
was like, sorry for bragging, and then my sister called me,
of course, I'm so proud of you.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah. I sent it to my mom and dad. I
haven't heard a word from my mother. Well hates me?

Speaker 1 (13:41):
No?

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Can I just shout out Yolanda, my sister in law,
and how sweet she is? Is she listening? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Oh was she at the wedding? Of course I may
have met her.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, she's a doll.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Thanks, Yolanda. You're the most important kind of family, which
is the family that listens to.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
It doesn't hate you for backing an egg over your
their head and when you were five, that's right.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
There's no grudges, no old grudges with those in laws.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
All I've been in her mind is a great aunt,
good time party goal, Yeah, good time party.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Probably a good gift giver.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
I would say I'm terrible at good giving. Really, she's
a great gift I'm a piece of shit.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
What gift cards? It's all Starbucks gift cards everywhere.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
I just forget. Yeah. More than that, I try.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
To make it seem like as if I'm a Seventh
day Adventist. I don't give gift either. Caroen Karen doesn't
do that.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Can we agree and we did this on our last
birthdays that we don't give each other gifts?

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Let's not do that for each other.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Never.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
No, I might. I might pick you up something and I.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
See it totally.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
It's like that's okay, well you're around. Yeah, But if
it has to be on your birthday, I'm going to
let you down.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
I don't want you to be stressed out and then
feel guilty. No way, I don't even we podcasted on
your birthday and I didn't even know is your birthday?

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Because I don't want to put that shit on people.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
But then I feel older.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
I didn't know, I know, But what do you get
I'm not on Facebook. I keep to myself. I'm a
fiercely private person.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Hey, it's my birthday today. You can't say that.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Didn't it feel weird? Just now?

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:10):
All right, let's talk about murder. Are you ready?

Speaker 2 (15:13):
That was called That was called family forum.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
That last part that was called working out friendship details,
friendship rules. This is an important thing because I swear
to God if I'm friends with the person and they
give me some fucking three stacks of beautifully wrapped gifts
and I'm like, get off. Yeah, we're not going to
be I don't want this from you.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
You're going to be very disappointed when your rolls around
getting this. Yeah, And then I feel obligated, and I
wrote this card that's like, hey, thank you for.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Forcing this, like getting me out of me?

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Can I just take you for a fucking meal? All right?

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah? And actually you should and I will. I feel
you owe me? Who went first last week?

Speaker 2 (15:56):
I think you did?

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Good? Am I wrong? All right? We're taking a quickie break.
Stay tuned, and then my favorite murders are happening.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
And we're back.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Hello, Hi, I'm looking at the photo right now on
Instagram that we took from that recording.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Nine years even.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
I have not seen this photo since back then, probably.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Right of your house.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Oh my god, look at everything. I know you could.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Actually when I saw that picture, that's what I said,
I go, I wonder if George's seen this lately, because
that is just like it captured a moment of your
old apartment, like with all your stuff and different things,
and like what your life looks like nine years ago.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
It did. It was Stephen on the ground there, like
what our whole lives were like back then in my
cute little apartment. Oh my god, this is like I'm clumped.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, I mean, and I'm shit saying. It's almost like
that's our point of view, like the other picture was
Steven's point of view to us.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
But I idinitely took this one. That's my love seat.
I think that I'm taking this from yeah, with my whiskey.
My whiskey on the table. If you'll notice that it's
a vintage Rocks glass, which I don't use anymore because there's.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Leads all that lead that you were drinking that night
and that it gave Steven. Here's ephen, this will make
you feel better. Yeah, we were talking about all kinds
of I mean, we were talking about it, We've talked
about it a ton. I said it then it's I
feel the same way the Johnny Gosh case kills me.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
You still can't handle.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
It's one of those things where like I think part
of the draw and I think the emotional interplay if
I may and I and I may not.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
I wish it would.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
This show is like or of any true crime kind
of fans experience, is that you're looking into this like horrifying,
you know, gaping maw of human mystery, I guess even
mystery and misery, misery, pain, people being stuck in places
with no answers.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Like unfathomable loss, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
But then also lost but then almost like a person
coming back, like are they really there? Will we not?
Like it's so heartbreaking everything about that, and it hasn't
gotten better.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
And that's one of those cases.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Well.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
The other one we mentioned was the Jacob Wetterling case,
which I will mention every single time that season one
of In the Dark that is about this case. When
they were like days or a week before they were
going to release the show, his murderer was caught. I mean,
talk about timing. It's in. It's an incredible show, So
make sure you check out season one of In.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
The Dark, Season one of In the Dark.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, Entertainment Weekly, look at us go I need that
Entertainment Weekly spread was really fun.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
That was a very cool moment.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Was this the spread or it's keep saying we were mentioned?

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Oh, it could be. Yeah, you know what the one
where I screwed it up and was like, it's us
in Sunlit Youth when it was supposed to be it's
us and Local Natives so embarrassed. Oh, I apologized it
on the next episode. But Local Natives is a cool band,
and we were mentioned in there. But then I think
maybe a couple months or a year later, was when
it was the spread. That's right.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Well, you know we were actually in my loft by
that by when this photos got taken. That's how you.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Know that's right. That's how we know it's progressed in
time forward.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
That's right. Instead of having carpet, I now have like
grayish wood floors that are just hideous, And that's how
you know we've made it.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
That's how you know you're moving on up.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, when you have fake gray wood floors.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, I liked that. We said to each other, we
don't have to give each other gifts. It's very that's
the way to do it.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
That was relief. I think I have that relief when
I meet other friends that are also like, yeah, I
don't do gifts either, or like with events where it's
like we don't really like he's not like hardcore about
it and I'm and so we don't. I don't always
feel to have to feel the pressure every year because
he does so great and I do some you know right,
It just happens when it fucking happens, not like it's

(20:08):
not expected, and that almost makes it better when you
get a gift or give a gift that the person's
not like, you don't feel obligated to give.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah. It's that kind of beholden thing where someone sends
you something and you're like, okay, so then the thing
I get you has to be equal, if not greater,
in emotional value. The hard element of gift giving.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah. Yeah. Some people in my family like can insist
on continuing to give adults gifts at the holidays. Yeah,
And I just think it should be like just let's
all just bring a dessert. That's the gift, you know, right,
bring a box of C's and give the kids presents,
like we don't need gifts anymore.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
I'm sorry this will be way off. Well it's on
topic for what you just said, but it's a little off.
But I think I told you this. You can go
onto the C's website and design your own box, so
you can just go through and do the exercise of
what would you put together if it was your custom
made box just for you to eat? And I did

(21:08):
that one night simply just to pass the time.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, they send it to you in the mail.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
So it can be whatever you want in there, but
it's like, you know, how use the normal nuts and shoes, say, for.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Example, it's like, miss that's Vince's nuts and shoes, and
I'm assorted, and then we fight about it constantly.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Okay, the fight's over because if you go on there,
you can split it down the center. You can do
it however you want, fill the whole thing with caramel patties,
whatever you want to do.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
You can get you fucking chocolate covered nuts away from me.
I'm not a fucking hippie health nut like. Give me
I am caramel. Give me fucking marshmallow. I want the
like indulgent ones, not like I don't want trail mix
when I'm eating dessert.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
You know, I hear you, I understand, But for me,
the combination of their roasted almonds and like milk chocolate
is so outstanding. But you know what I never had.
And then I swear to God, we'll stop talking about
this because it's not the right show and don't now. Yeah,
and I'm so hungry. Have you brought those Scotch mellow
bars there?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah? The fucking with the marshmallow and the caramel. Yep,
it's ridiculous. That's the first one I go to whenever
I open a box.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
It's like there's something about that combo. It's balanced so perfectly. Mary.
See it just hats off to you once again. May
I love you?

Speaker 2 (22:22):
And like so prime it's like an LA institution. I know,
that's right, Jesus, I love it.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
She's a ballerballer baller.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
All right, well, should we get into my story?

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Should we go back to talking about this episode? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:36):
This one, Yeah, this one. I had forgotten about this,
and right, I forgot about the DNA thing at the
very end, which is just mind blowing.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
So yeah, let's well, we'll let you tell us, but
from twenty sixteen, this is Georgia's story about Gary Earl
Leiderman and the Michigan murders.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
We're back.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
And we're back and hi.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Hey, all right Georges first this week. Okay, so are
you ready to put your phone down and listen to me?

Speaker 1 (23:19):
I was gonna send you that picture you get me
every good damn tongue?

Speaker 2 (23:24):
What if I was that big of a dick?

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Are you ready to listen? That's my one trigger is
phone stuff.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
No, I'm kidding. I don't give a shit about anything.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
I'm pulling this microphone forward and leading.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Pay Go to instagram dot com slash my favorite murder
to see a photo we just took.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yes, I have no makeup on, neither do I.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
And my pants are just completely unbuttoned and unzipped.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
It's my Alicia Keys photo. All right, I'm taking this.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
Is it going to make a lot of noise?

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Or I'm not. I'm not going to make one move.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Steven, you better tell her if she I just.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Want to relax keeping an eye on her. Okay, give
me the finger.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
All right? All right, So my favorite murder this week
is that of Gary Earle Leederman and the Michigan murders,
so it's kind of a it's kind of a mashup.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Okay, all right.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
In the late nineteen sixties, there was a serial killer
targeting young women in the college town of ann Arbor, Michigan.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Ooh.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
He was called the co Ed Killer, who became known
as a co Ed Killer, and he murdered women in
and ran ann Arbor in a two year period.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
His mo was picking up young women between the ages
of thirteen and twenty one. Then he would rape, beat,
and murder them, typically by stabbing or strangulation. Sometimes their
bodies would be mutilated, which I don't get into. Don't worry,
okay if you're a squeamish after death before being discarded
in a desolate area. And he was also known to

(24:59):
visit their bodies before they were found. Ooh, yeah, he
was a fucking creep. Yeah, like a gross, fucked up,
sadistic creep.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
He was. He was the og Ted Bundy. It sounds like, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, he was. Like I think, I don't know, I
should have looked this up. But they must have had
the term serial killer already because they called him that.
But it was like before, this was like a known thing, right,
serial killing. So two young women attributed to the co
ed Killer had been found when the body of Jane Mixer,
a brilliant twenty three year old law student at the

(25:33):
University of Michigan, was found on March twenty first, nineteen
sixty nine. She was found at a cemetery just west
of ann Arbor, and it was assumed she was a
victim of the serial killer, the co ed Killer, but
some of the details of her murder were different than
the established mo o of the co ed Killer. Jane

(25:54):
had disappeared after posting a note on a college ride
share bulletin board. Fuck right, I mean, oh honey. Yeah,
she was seeking a ride across the state to her
hometown of Muskegan, where she intended Oh god, this is
the worst part. She intended to inform her family of

(26:15):
her engagement and emminent moved to New York. Like she
intended to inform everyone of the beautiful life she was
building for herself. Yeah, and was excited to start.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
She just had some great news. Yeah, it's like, oh,
her parents had been waiting to for this day.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah. A guy she met at law school who was
a sweet angel. They were going to move to New
York and pursue their careers.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Her sweet baby angle.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
I forgot about this. That's my saying hello, all right,
thank you. Yeah, it makes me really sad. But you know,
like I wonder how like there's one thing about hitchhiking
that we are always like down hitchhike, But the other
thing of like putting it. Hey, if anyone's heading to
like fucking Miskeigan, are you ride?

Speaker 1 (27:03):
I mean, in this day and age, I think it's
a little bit better. Right, if you're going to do
the head in nineteen sixty nine, don't get away from
any corkboard of any kind. Yeah, there's nothing good is
happening now, everything's laced with acid. Come on.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Oh those were great quotes. Amazing.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, I'm really mad about it. I had no idea.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
No, it's ridiculous. So her body had been found in
a cemetery atop a grave. She had been and we
learned this from how to say this from Jean Benet
Garrotted correct, Yeah, garreted garretted all right, with a nylon
stalking and it wasn't her own stalking. It has come
to kind of find out. But the way she died

(27:48):
was that she was shot twice in the head with
a twenty two caliber. She hadn't been beaten or sexually
assaulted like the other victims of the co Ed Killer had,
but she did have her dress pulled up showing her underwear,
but it had been carefully covered up with her yellow
rain coat afterwards, and her shoes and and her copy
of Catch twenty two had been carefully placed nearby. So

(28:11):
like this person took care.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
It was like painting a picture.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, and like covering her body is such I mean,
we all know what it means now, but back then,
it was like we didn't understand, like that really meant
caretaking this person.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Right, which means a personal relationship. Usually I didn't Yes,
you're right, all right. I thought that's what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
No, but you're right. I just yeah, it means yeah,
you're so smart. I'm just gonna hand this whole podcast over.
You don't do it, by please don't do it. So
four days after she's discovered the body, another body of
the co ed victim the co Ed killer is found.
Marilyn Skelton. She disappeared while hitchhiking, and Ann Arbor and

(28:57):
her murder more closely resembled the m of the series Killer.
I wrote, fucked up fact. Each woman up until this point,
including Jane Mixer, had been menstruating at the time of
their death. Oh what in the actual fact? What? What
are the chances?

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Okay? Who works at the tampon store is my first
as I'm.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Oh, you think it's a well? They wore sanitary napkins,
like went up to their chins.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Who sold the sanitary napkin belts? Did you just say
that one up to their chin?

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Have you seen these things?

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Can I tell you a hilarious and very quick anecdote
Always my friend Lisa Lanyon, who I went to hydeschool.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
You be saying her full name? Are you about to
tell him now?

Speaker 1 (29:40):
She'd like it?

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
I spent the night at her house one night and
I went in to wash my face before we went
to bed. I couldn't find anything to hold my hair back.
And then I found this this, uh, this white elastic
weird headband that had plastic clips on it. I was like, whatever,
double it up, threw my hair back, wash my face.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Came out of the bathroom. Her mother started laughing so
hard she could not breathe, and then Lisa was like, Karen,
you have a sanitary napkin belt on your head.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
The joke is on man, because of what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (30:13):
It was like some old thing I think she I
think the story was like her mom showed her like,
this is what you used to have to use, and
then threw it in the bathroom drawer. Oh my god,
it was like some old thing she found of, Like, Lisa,
can you believe this used to have? Her mom had
this great Boston accent. Her mom was hilarious.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
That is the most beautiful story I've ever heard.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
I own. Her mom lost her mind when she saw me,
and she was like, you are the funniest girl where
I was like, I was just putting your band in
my hair.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
How embarrassing. Loo good for you for washing your face
before bed. Pro tip as someone who was open adult
acne on her face right now, I always washed her
face before bed.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Seriously, it's something that's very hard to do. Once you're
in your like fourth episode of Rosemary time, you're like,
I'm not getting off this couch.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Who cares. That's why within arm's reach at all times
you have face wipes everywhere.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh girl, tip for the lazy. There'll be more of
those coming out. We're very lazy. That was a great segue.
That was the best story. Okay, sorry, no, don't sorry.
That needs to be the girl who makes those amazing
cartoons of us. Oh yeah, comic strips of us.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, can she can? That lovely girl please make one
of this story.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, and give me a button nose, I demanded.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Everyone keeps commenting when I put photos like drawings on
Instagram of how that you have a button knows an
amazing cheek bone and every drawing because you do. That's right.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
You just bend people to your will. You tell me
I'm pretty hair bless you not. McCarthy actually texted me
button knows the other morning.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
He did shout out to that McCarthy. It was sarcastic. Yeah,
but he listens, He listens and loves. Maybe he sarcastically listens.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
No, I think he genuinely listens, but with being sarcastic
about my button.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Okay, so, Matt McCarthy, of that, we watch wrestling pot do.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
You watch wrestling podcast if you like wrestling?

Speaker 2 (32:06):
All right, all right, back to the story, back to
the murders, back to murdering. All right, so all had
been menstruating, crazy, creepy, fucking weird and like seems linked, right,
what are the chances?

Speaker 1 (32:18):
What are the chances? That's insane.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
So after three more murders of a thirteen year old
named Don Luis Basin and twenty one year old Alice
Elizabeth Callum, with his final victim, which was due to
his capture, being an eighteen year old named Karen Sue Beneman,
John Norman Collins, a former fraternity dude, was caught.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
He's that young, Oh he's just former.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
No, he was. He was, Oh god, I don't know
his age, but he was a young man.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
He was in college yet college age too.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, and honestly, like between you and me, he was
fucking hot.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Oh that's they're the worst, that's the fuck it. It's
the Ted Bundy thing.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Well, that's why these girls would get in his car
and get on his motorcycle. He was a cute college
Dude's not anymore. He's fucking gross but looking an old
photo of right, he was.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
No one's gonna drap thet guy.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
And if a guy rolls up.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
And is like, hey, can you help me with my thing?
And yeah, and they look creepy. People are going to
go no, I can use my very basic senses to
be like no, thanks.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, it's this automatic thing of trusting an attractive face.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
That's right. Giving credit to being attractive. Is that means
you're a good person, trustworthy person. So what does it
mean that people think I'm a terrible person? Does that
mean I'm not attractive? Nobody thinks that you're trying to
give people rides Always you're rolling up and trying to
get people to get into your car to not kill them. Yeah,

(33:55):
just to drive him around and talk about your own stuff.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah. It just seems like to event sometimes when I
say I went to therapy today, all I mean is
I picked someone up and made them drive around with
me for an hour.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
You made them listen to you for an hour.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah, I'm gonna give him twenty bucks and dropped them off.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Hey. So, he had been interviewed by police previously but
had been eliminated as a suspect, and part of the
reason he was caught was due to the identification by
a clerk of the wig shop which his last victim,
named Karen, had visited. Yes, this was an episode of

(34:34):
the crown to remember.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
The one with the car. But it's like the one
thing they knew about him, Like they had no idea
who it was for a long time, but the one
thing they knew it was like a blue car.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
It was a motorcycle. Oh oh, is that the one
where the little girl gets kidnapped like from her driveway? Yeah,
and they knew the car.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, and that turns out it was a guy that
lived right in the neighborhood. Yeah, okay, I'm combining. Sorry,
I'm come by.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
You're right though, So Karen the last Karen.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
I've watched too many crime shows, all the same in
my mind.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Now, So Karen, Hi, Karen the last person who was
murdered by him That day, the day of her disappearance,
had visited a whig shop and the clerk had remembered
that Karen was visiting her store to purchase a hair
piece and there was a young man waiting outside for

(35:30):
her on a blue motorcycle. Ooh, And Karen told the clerk,
I mean, man, this bums me out. Ready, She said
to the clerk to observe the man with whom she
had accepted a ride a cocky in a motorcycle stating
that she had made two foolish errors in her life,
purchasing a wig and accepting a ride from a stranger,

(35:53):
and then she stated, I've got to be either the
bravest or the dumbest girl alive because I've just accepted
a ride from this guy. What are the fucking chances?
She was then seen climbing onto the motorcycle before riding
away with him.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
You know that makes me think of It's like when
you get a bad feeling in your gut and you
make light of it, that's right, and you feel like, oh,
if I just say this to one person, it'll make
it less a bad feeling.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
That's crazy. And exactly you're like, this crazy thing just
happened to me. This person assaulted me, and you're like,
you should be taking it seriously.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Well, no, I just mean it more in the way
of like before anything happened, before anything bad happens. But
you do have the thing of this isn't right like what.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
I was gonna. I mean, from your own life, are
we fighting like what No? I ent from her own life.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Most of the time, if I get a thing, I walk,
I don't do this. But I think probably back when
I drank, I would do it more right, but there
wasn't a lot of information coming in because of like
the gallons of whiskey that I had inside.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah, there's definitely jokes I've made that are like like,
I have a hot date tonight, and it's like, well,
it's just this with this person you don't fucking know. Yeah,
and it's and you're really actually you should be afraid.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah, you're nervous, and you're telling people and you're trying
not to act quote unquote weird by telling them I'm nervous,
So you're just trying to make a joke about it.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
But then Vince and I got married, so it was fun. No,
But one time I did go on a date with someone.
I was going to date with someone, and I gave
his phone number to my best friend. This is before self,
like most before cell phones, to be like, hey, if
I don't show up tomorrow, yeah this here's my and
here's his info.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah that's not cool. Well, but also now because a
lot of people talk about this to us, which is
I don't want to leave my house. I'm so anxious,
I'm so nervous. I think everyone's going to kill me
or whatever. Which I think is people connecting with us
and people reaching out. They have heard us say it,
they're going to just say it too, because they're admitting it.

(38:10):
But there's also that thing of just it's just a
safety precaution. Nobody cares, nobody thinks you're weird. You give
that number, and then you just have a little thing
in place, because it's I think it's a smart thing
to do. It's just taking it's being proactive for yourself. Because, yeah,
you're going to go on a date if you've met
a person, none of the other other alarm bells are going.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
On, right, It doesn't mean you shouldn't. That's a person
you shouldn't go on a date with, because it's just
being precautious.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
But but yeah, but also do that thing that might
feel weird, but you can just do it for with
a friend. You don't have to do it to every person.
You know, then you're being like neurotic. Yea, but you
put a little safety sure measure out there.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Hell yeah, yeah, yeah, all right ready except the ride.
So that's how he one of one of the main
ways he got caught that led to all the other
evidence against him, and in August nineteen seventy, John Norman

(39:15):
Collins was found guilty of first murder of Karen, his
last victim, and he was sentenced to sort of life
imprisonment with hard labor and solitary confinement. He never admitted
his guilt in either the murder of Karen or any
of the other murderers linked to the Michigan murder he
is suspected of committing. So they only tried him for

(39:36):
that one crime, for the one murder that they had
a ton of evidence on and I witnessed evidence, and
then he was never going to get out, so they
didn't try him for the other murderers, which has to
be hard when you're the family of those other victims.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
And how many other people were there.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Well, here's okay, So here's the rest of the story.
So they, I mean, up until two thousand and two,
they figured he had like seven murders in the area.
But the case of Jane Mixer, who was considered solved
by the fact that John Norman Collins had did it

(40:10):
until two thousand and two, when Michigan State detectives noticed
that a lot of the details of her murder didn't
match up with collins crimes. So they took a look
at the case again, and they took three drops of
sweat that had been on Jane Mixer's pantyhose and a
single drop of blood that had been on her hand
to be tested for DNA. All Right, the DNA didn't

(40:33):
match John Norman Collins, the co ed killer, but it
did match sixty two year old Gary Liederman, who was
a former nurse from southwestern Michigan who was a drug
salesman in Michigan at the time of the murders in
the area. It was thought that Liederman was the person

(40:54):
who had responded to Jane's note on the college ride
share bulletin asking for a lift home, because somehow a
dorm room book, a phone book in the dorm rooms
read the words quote Mixer and Muskegon, which is where

(41:14):
she was going, and were linked to his handwriting. But
that was in two thousand and two that they found
those or that they linked those all right, anyways.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
So that they had the evidence, but they just hadn't
kind of put anything orgether sitting somewhere.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yes, And then when his house was searched where he
had lived with his wife of twenty seven years, two
polaroid pictures of a sixteen year old foreign exchange student
who had lived with him and his wife were found.
The girl was drugged, unconscious, lying on his bed with
her clothing pulled back to show her junk and it

(41:56):
was similar to the post that Jane had been left
in the semi terry whoa So the sweatstains linked to Leederman,
not the serial killer, but the drop of blood found
on her hand was linked through DNA to someone else.
It was a Detroit man who was at the time

(42:18):
of the DNA match serving life in prison for murder.
The problem was I'm ready for this that John Ruellis,
whose DNA matched the blood drop, was four years old
at the time of the murder. Right, So the defense
argued that the state police lab had contaminated the samples

(42:41):
when both men's DNA were tested at the lab within
a day of each other. Leaderman's had been tested separately.
He had a recent arrest for forging prescription meds from
where he worked as a nurse, and Ruella's was for murder.

(43:01):
But the cross contamination made the DNA match to Liederman.
It should have made it in the in the court case,
just no one void because if you find someone else's
DNA on this person, that there's no way that person
could have come into the crime, then the rest of
the DNA should be fucking thrown out. Of thrown out?
Is evidence? Right?

Speaker 1 (43:21):
What is that? Are you saying that's the law or not?
Just what I like logic?

Speaker 2 (43:24):
That's logic to me. We can get to that. It
didn't get thrown out. The prosecution argued that rue Wells,
who was four years old at the time and a
chronic nose bleeder, must have been at the crime scene
and somehow got a drop of blood on your face.
That you're making is correct? Is what I feel too.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah, a four year old with the bloody rose wandered
over to a dead body.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
They didn't argue that there was a mistake in the
crime lag, but crime lab. But the other DNA was legitimate.
And here's why they said that there was a four
year old boy in the cemetery and had somehow gotten
his blood on her.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
That in and of itself is the creepiest thing we've
talked about this whole episode. The idea of a four
year old with a bloody nose walking through a cemetery
and stumbling upon a dead body.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
And it's absurd, but he was convicted. Lederman was convicted
of the murder of Jane Mixer based on the DNA
evidence and these other little basic things. According to the
book Inside the Cell, The Dark Side of Forensic DNA
by Aaron Murphy, which we all need to read immediately,

(44:36):
I'm fucking buying, the lab analyst admitted that they routinely
processed samples from different cases at the same time, as
well as one of the negative controls processed in this
case at the time that the pante hoose samples that
was processed had become contaminated, like not even connected to

(44:56):
all of this, but the analyst had tried to hide
that fact. Oh. In addition, Ruyl's DNA wasn't even processed
at that lab. It was sent out for testing in
a different location, but they still were able to cross
contaminate at that at the lab where it had originated.

(45:18):
Like that's a fucked up shit. Yeah, right, So, after
minutes of deliberation, Leaderman was convicted of first degree murder
and got life in prison.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Minutes of deliberation, HM, jesus.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
I know, all right, so I kind of wrote these
things of like here's what's hard to argue with a
Leaderman being guilty is that all of the crimes that
were talking, including mixers, had to do with ride somewhere,
which was the mo of.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
The co ed killer.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
They all had something tied around their necks, some of
which didn't belong to the murder victim, including Jane's you're menstruating,
which is fucking insane, bizarre. They were all left in
locations where they would eventually be found kind of on purpose.
They all were connected to the university, which I mean,
if you live in ann Arborth, it's kind of hard

(46:12):
not to.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, it's a university town.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
A lot of them were strangled and the fifth known
victim was shot in the head as well, so it
wasn't totally against his emo. But at the same time,
the majority of those murders he was never tried and
convicted for, so it's not like we can say that
he did them definitively, right. But according to Leederman's room
main in college, Leaderman owned and liked to shoot at

(46:38):
twenty two caliber and he was obsessed with the serial murders. Ooh,
so it's kind of it's kind of this if any
it reminds me of making a murderer where it's like,
I don't know if he's guilty or innocent, but he
shouldn't have been prosecuted based on these pieces of evidence.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, that's right, And that's the really the only thing
you have at the end of the day, because everything
else is bias and circumstance and kind of judgment.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah. And it was two thousand and two at the
height of like CSI being a big thing and everyone
thinking DNA was like the end all be all and
not realizing that so much of it, like I wouldness,
testimony was flawed because it was because human error.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
And people not admitting like covering up Yeah, and AARs
like good god. Yeah, So that's that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
So you believe that leadermen should not be in jail.
You think that that last death, that the woman that
was found in the graveyard is a co ed killer.
I don't think.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
I can't say that definitively. I think there should have
been more evidence to try. I feel like now in
twenty sixteen, we should go back and look and find
whatever other evidence we can find and DNA tests those
other victims that we are attributing to the co ed
killer kind of cross reference them with Jane Mixer and

(48:05):
see what really happened. But I don't, I'm not. I
can't say definitively that he should be let out. I
just think in the same way Steven Avery was like,
should get a new trial, and you know, Cereal a
Non said, I know it should be. You know, you can't.
You can't convict someone, especially when they have shoddy defense

(48:28):
based on these basic things that you know, in the
future we're going to laugh at as.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Like, I know, and the future could be like four
years right.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Now, right, I mean, two thousand and two seems not
that long ago, right, It's so huge, it's a huge
difference when it comes to like scientific evidence and all this.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Now, where do you think, uh, where do you think
that bloody four year old plays into this?

Speaker 2 (48:54):
I mean, that's the most fun. That's the That's the
only reason I'm talking about this murder is because that
is so fucking insane and so clearly human error of
cross contamination in that lab. I can't believe the trial
went forward after that was found out.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
That lawyer, when he found that out, that that's what
that blood spatter was, must have been so stoked. The
defense who I don't know whoever found that. It was
just like this is I think the defense big reveal
of like is this blood, well it was four years old.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
The defense should have been stoked that was that they
found a four year old's blood who had been whose
DNA had been tested in the same lab a day before.
But for some reason he didn't pursue that enough in
the trial to convince the jury that that was fucking insane.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Because at the time, like you're saying, it's like DNA
is a lock.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah, I mean those prosecutors were good, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Well, and also you get somebody it's like it's you know,
people want a thing like that. People want that story
finished new period. They want they want it closed up,
and they want somebody to pay. Yeah, and that's a
hard position. You know. We've felt that same way. Yeah,

(50:17):
where it's just like erase what's happening, or like somebody
gets justice.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Yeah. Justice is such a fraudulent term.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
All right, Wow, horrifying in every way. Are there updates
on this case?

Speaker 2 (50:33):
There aren't many. Yeah, that story is just like piling
on horrifying things. It's just like too many, yes, too many.
But during my story Karen, you did share a funny
anecdote about misusing a sanitary napkin belt, because like, I
think we were a lot jokier during the stories back
then than we are now.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Well, yeah, we didn't. We just thought we were talking
to each other. So when we would go off on tangents,
which we always do, it would just be like, oh, wait,
this makes me think of this saying okay, now back, yes,
this horrible thing, and it wasn't. Really it didn't read
to us as kind of stark and harsh and insensitive
as it does now right.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
I'd also like to point out, as I mentioned earlier,
that full glass of whiskey, that I don't do that anymore.
Maybe a can of wine, but a full glass of
whiskey does not a good podcast make. So yeah, but
it's great, but good thing you brought it up, because
that iconic story was turned into a work of art

(51:32):
by Nick Terry of course, for MFM Animated. It's called
hair Tie, and you can see it in all its
glory on the exactly right YouTube channel. I mean, if
you're having a bad day and you just go to
the exactly right YouTube channel and binge watch MFM Animated
it's a joy.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Nick Terry has done something that like, as a self
loathing gen xer who just wants to like turn away
most of the time, Nick Terry makes me enjoy what
we have made. Yeah, in a way that's like it
just means the world. It's like being able to see
it in the way of like, oh I get this.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Yeah, Like it points out the special moments that we
miss because we're fucking halfway talking about something else. By
the time it's over, you know.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
We're all sanitary napkin belt, which is like most people
don't know what that is. Also, this is the episode
where I say sweet Baby Angle and for good or bad,
we do have bumper stickers that say that on the
exactly right store if you want to go buy one.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
That's right. I love how sweete Angle has become just
as important as Sweet Baby Angel, the original one. And
it was because someone wrote in right and they accidentally
wrote angle probably I think that's what it was.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
And then there was that I did have the story
from my hometown of somebody wrote when I was in
high school, somebody wrote on a wall in black spray paint,
Angle of Death, and we would my phone would be
like Oh my god, it's the Angle of Death, and.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
My god, I wanted to open a vantage clothing shop
called Hail Satin and not been. Yes, I'm still trademarking that.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Like Cushit's that's very like early Agent Provocateur. Look, we're
still doing it. We can't help it. It is what
we're like, Oh, conversationally, we just can't stop doing it.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Stop it, let's get back into it. The story that
I'm about to introduce that you do is so incredible.
I think it's one of your best. It has an
incredible update at the very end. And I think you
get into this groove right now in this time period
when you're doing like Mary Vincent and the story and
some other really powerful ones that are just like legendary

(53:35):
in the over four hundred episodes we've done.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Also, there's thank you very much. That's a lovely compliment.
But I am ripping off the television show I Survived directly.
I credit them at the time, but especially in retrospect,
I was just trying to get this insane podcast homework
done and so I could not. All of this is
the producing minds of the people who made I Survived.

(54:02):
And how brilliantly they made that show so I could
basically tell the Jennifer Mory story because the first time
I saw it, it affected me so deeply that I
never forgot it. So like that day, I'm positive I
was coming from one of my writing jobs and I
was like, oh, I know, just rewatch that and write
down the facts and then just retell it the way
Jennifer Moury herself told this story, which is for the

(54:26):
good or bad. That is how I got through the
year that I worked on this podcast and had a job.
If not too, but I do think it was this
sincere because of my true, genuine like respect and admiration
for that show and the way they tell victim stories.
It was like, well, great, let's tell victim stories and
let's get those.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Yeah, now I know the correct story, not the fucking yes,
you know, over dramatize bullshit.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
The first hand experience of a survivor is one of
the most important things we could hear.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Okay, so let's listen to Karen's story about Jennifer.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
So this week I'm going back to my tried and true,
which is I'm going to retell you one of my
favorite episodes if I survived.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
Well, I never I've never seen this show, so please do.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
And this one I love because this plays on if you,
uh if this, if you have some home alone, as
a young lady fears this is going to cause some problems.
So spoiler alert, trigger alert, scary scary alert. Oh no,
it has all these pieces. And the first time I

(55:39):
saw this on I survived, I was like gripping the couch.
I was so freaked out. So essentially it goes a
little something like this. It's April fifteenth, nineteen ninety five,
and a young, bright, beautiful, successful, twenty five year old

(56:01):
young lawyer named Jennifer morey Is goes out and has
a drink with her friends after work one night.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Big mistake, her fault. She goes.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
She's at the local alehouse, all her friends are there.
She doesn't want to go. At first, they convince her
to stay. Then she ends up having a great time
and she stays until midnight. Then her friend drives her
home and she lives in an apartment complex called Bayou

(56:34):
Park in Houston. And the reason that she picked this
apartment complex to move into was because it was all
about security and it had not just like you know,
the the apartment security guards. They actually hired Pinkerton security
guards to work at this place.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
So we go back in time. That's still a thing.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
No, they've been around, that's how long been around. It's
still like a major company. So and that name means
a lot to people in security. So that's why she
picked that apartment building to live in. So she goes
home at midnight, goes in. Let's say she washed her face,
which is what you should do before you go to
bed ladies. So she goes in, gets ready for bed,

(57:21):
goes to bed, turns out all the lights, wakes up
at four am. There's someone on top of her. No, yeah, yeah,
I get ready for this. It's going to be this
the whole time. So there's someone straddling her, and she
can feel something on her neck and she realizes someone no,

(57:42):
is not. She realizes someone's broken into an apartment and
they're attempting to rape HER's She can't figure out if
she's dreaming at first. It's that horrible in between feelings,
and she finally when she becomes fully awake and she
realizes someone straddling her, they've got a knife to her
throat and they're going to raper, she just starts fighting.
Good for her, so she does everything she can. She

(58:06):
fights this guy. She grabs the knife. It's all the stuff,
all the crazy shit, and she's fighting him so hard
that he cuts her from the cheekbone to the middle
of her neck and he slices her neck over. So
she keeps on fighting, but suddenly it gets very slippery

(58:29):
and there's blood everywhere, and finally she starts losing blood
and like the fight goes out of her. He takes
her by the hair and he pulls her across out
of the bed, across the room, throws her into the
bathroom and says, you stay in here, and you do

(58:50):
not move, and he slams the door, and so she
throws her back up against the door. In the bathroom,
she grabs a washcloth and she puts it up against
her wound. Pressure constant pressure when you have a wound
like that. She throws her feet up against the wall
and she's like jammed herself there so he can't come

(59:10):
back in. And then she sits there and waits and listens,
and she hears him zip his pants up, and then
she waits, and then she hears the door close, and
then she waits a little bit longer to make sure,
and then she goes to open the door, and she
can't open the door because there's so much blood on
her hands that she cannot get a grip on the door,

(59:33):
and she's pulling at it and pulling at it, and
then she actually says in the story she actually started
laughing because she was like, Oh, this is how I'm
going to die. I get stuck. I get stuck in
the bathroom, and that's how I can't get help. So
finally she gets out. She yanks to her open, she
gets out. She fumbles to throw on the hallway light.

(59:53):
The lights are dead. Oh my god, she crawls. She
gets to the phone. Phone's dead.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
No no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
No, yeah. So then she finds her cell phone. It's live.
She brings it back into the bathroom and she calls
time on one. So that night a man named Richard
Everett was working, was the dispatcher. He had just gotten
onto his shift.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Got Heroes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
So this is four am when this started. So uh so,
I guess he was starting a very early morning shift
them maybe middle of nine, I don't know. So she
explains to him what's happened, and he just starts telling her,
You're going to be fine. Just try to stay calm,

(01:00:42):
don't talk that much. We just keep it. The cops
and the ambulance are on their way right now. They're
going to be there really soon. You know, we could
listen to this right now and we're going to be fine.
There's no fucking way I would ever listen to it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
And she's saying, I'm bleeding so much, you please make
sure they hurry or whatever, and he's like, they're come
there as fast as they can. Just hold that washcloth.
You're gonna be okay. And so after like ten minutes,
he's just talking her down and she's actually starting to
calm down and she's feeling okay. There's a knock at
the door. No, no, no, So she's like, there's someone's

(01:01:16):
knocking at the door, and he's like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Who is it?

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
And she goes, well, hold, So she yells from the
bathroom who is it? And he says, this is Brian Gibson,
the security guard that's on duty tonight. No, I just
got attacked by a guy who jumped off your balcony.
Are you okay? Is that true?

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Is it true?

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
And she doesn't know. So she's like, he goes, are
you okay you should let me in? And she goes,
I'm okay, I'm talking to nine one one right now.
And the dispatcher on nine to one one goes, wait,
what's going on and she goes, no, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
It's the security guard. He wants me to let him in.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
And Richard Everett, for no reason and except for gut goes,
do not let him in the door. And she goes, no,
it's Pinkerton's security. That's the whole apartment, like, that's the
whole setup here. And he goes, he said, here's the thing.
We haven't notified security at your apartment complex yet, so

(01:02:19):
unless they have a police scanner.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Yeah, but if he's someone jumping off, that doesn't matter.
What is he gonna do?

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
We don't know about that story. But he goes, we
just don't know what that is, so just don't let
him in. So she's like, I'm not gonna let you
in right now. Like guy's like, it's I swear, it's okay.
Here's my badge, you know. Like he's like, I just
need to help you. Are you you know, are you bleeding?
There's blood out here? You know, I want to make
sure that you're okay. And she's like, I'm fine. The

(01:02:48):
cops are on their way, and he's like, I know
I can hear the alarms, you know, I know CPR,
I can help you whatever, and and and he goes,
I'm sorry, I just the dispatcher to Jennifer, I just
don't think you should let him in. And she's like, okay,
I'm really scared though, I'm starting to lose blood, I'm
getting light headed.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
I gotta have a cooochie twins.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
This is so exciting, Like what if I what if
I pass out and I'm and the door is locked,
they kick it down, and so he's just he just
keeps talking to her, and he's like, just listen to
the sound on my voice. I'm watching the cops drive
up the street. They are three minutes away, so you
just have to hang on for three more minutes. And meanwhile,

(01:03:29):
the guy's like, Jennifer, can you talk to me? Are
you okay? You know, can you just let me in?
And so he.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Wouldn't if he was supposed to be there, he wouldn't
be so insistent. He wouldn't, you know what I mean, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Well, but it's a woman who's bleeding and there's blood.
It's like, clearly there's a scenario. Now, if you were
a security guard and you knew a woman had just
gotten attacked with a knight.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
You would kick the door down.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
And she's in there bleeding out and freaking out and
not letting anybody help her, you might kick the door down. Yeah,
So but Richard's like, I don't know, so just don't
do it. Well, then the knocking starts getting harder. He's like,
you need to let me in here, and she then
she's starting freak out because now she doesn't trust anybody.

(01:04:13):
She has no idea what to do. But then suddenly
she hears the sirens in the background, so she knows
the police. And he's like, do you hear the sirens?
Are they are coming up the driveway road. She's like yes,
and he goes so the ambulance is there, like, you
are going to live, You're fine, so just keep that
door shit and you will be fine. Well the knocking stop,

(01:04:34):
Oh my god, got go. It's totally silent outside of
the door. So now she's more scared because she's like,
what the fuck is it? When the cops pull up
to this apartment complex. This security guard, Brian Gibson, meets
them out there and he is a mess. He is
bleeding from his right hand, there's blood on his face,
there's blood on his uniform. Sure, and he tells the

(01:04:57):
police his story that he walked up, he saw he
jumped down from her second story balcony and attacked him.
They got into this fight, and the guy ran off
into the woods into a field over on the side,
and he didn't see where he went. And then he
went up to check on the lady, who will not
let him in. Who's freaking out right. So the cops

(01:05:17):
are like, all right, stay here, sounds good. They start
to check everything out. There's no trail into the grasses, Dewey,
no at six am, no nothing, So they're like, get
that guy and put him in a room over there.
They go up to Jennifer's apartment that the ambulance has
already taken her away. She's going to live because the

(01:05:38):
show was called I Survived. She told the story herself
with a big old scar in her neck. She's gorgeous.
This woman is like gorgeous and a lawyer, so she's
she's killing it. The cops go into her apartment. There's
blood everywhere. There's also a Pinkerton hat and there's men's
underwear on the ground and a knife. So they pick

(01:06:01):
up all this shit and they go back down to
Brian Gibson, the security the Pinkerton's security guard that worked there.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
How is that in there?

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
And they say can you take your shirt off? Please?
And he's like, no, I no, it's fine. I was
actually the one that was attacked there, Like, take your
shirt off. There's claw marks all over his body. Oh
my god, he's not wearing underwear. Nope, he has shaved
his pubic care no pubic.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Care meaning no hair left behind.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
That's exactly right. And he didn't have a hat because
he was the person the security guard at the apartment
building where she lived.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Did he have keys to everywhere? Was?

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Well, he didn't have. Oh yeah, he must have had
keys to get into her house, master or some key
or he could have like I mean, he had total access.
Oh sorry, shit, that was the most upsetting thing that
I read. No, no, no, but I just forgot it.
It's he was calling her by her first name when
he was talking to her, oh before it when he

(01:07:00):
was first on her, which I think is one of
other the other reasons she got so freaked out and
fought so hard is because it's like, what the fuck
is going on?

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Just how much I'm sleeping tonight? Zero?

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
But she survived. It turns out, Yeah, so they arrest him.
He gets twenty years for attempted murder.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Yeah, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
And he's on parole.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Now what No, I'm going to fucking in Texas. Jump
off my second story of balcony.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
He's on parl in Texas.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
When is attempted murder going to be treated like what
it was intended to be?

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Like murder?

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
You mean murder? Right? That is so troubling to me
that it's like, well, you didn't get away with it.
You're not because she live, right, simply because she fought
so you don't. You don't deserve the punishment of what
you were intending to fucking do. Well.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
And also, the cops are positive that if she had
let him in when he came back the next time
to quote unquote check on her, he would have killed
her and picked up all his shit.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
He was totally totally.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
There's that is absolutely there. The cops are positive that's
the reason.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
So did what's the name of the guy, the uh,
the one dispatcher did he hear? Richard Everett, all of
the ribbons and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
They're still friends to this day. He went to her wedding. Yeah,
my god, Yeah, they're they're close friends.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
I'm gonna cry.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Yeah. And she talks about him when in her episode
of I Survived, She the way she talks about him
is like one of the sweetest things you've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
I can't deal with because.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
He and the worst moment of her life like saved
her life essentially in that way that like beautiful things
happened too hideous fucking things. And she went on to
become the Trauma supports the director of Trauma Support Services
of North Texas. Gorgeous and she I read the things
she went around. I mean it was twenty fifteen, I

(01:09:03):
think when the article what the article is from twenty
thirteen or twenty fifteen. She was going around speaking at
schools and telling people horrible things happen in life, but
it's all about what you're prepared, how you're prepared for them.
And basically she gave this talk that was kind of
like the stuff that we talk about, which is like
running scenarios and thinking about these things can actually help

(01:09:26):
you not panic and not completely lose it when something
really upsetting happens because you've kind of run a scenario.
You know where your cell phone is, you have things plant,
you know where flashlights are, like, you have things planned
out a little bit, so you at least can put
a plan together.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
It's a good way to like to make sense of
your anxiety and that like, well, maybe someday this anxiety
or this thing that me thinking about these awful things
happening is going to make me better in a situation
where I need to not fucking panic because I've already
run the scenario through my head.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Or Yeah, and also it can take away from that,
like you don't need to beat yourself up for thinking
about it. Yeah, you don't need to tell yourself you're
crazy for thinking about it. You're smart for thinking about it,
and you're empowered for thinking about it, and you're taking action.
It's not you know, you don't have to live in
it and shut the door. You go out in your
life knowing that you are armed with information.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
And having an awareness and that security that you you
know you've done as much as you can with your
anxiety to prepare yourself, but you're not letting it take
over your life. Yeah, and get in the way, like
you're you're not going to never leave the house again
because you're aware of all these fucking terrible things to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
Well. And also it's like, this isn't a story about
how all security guards are evil. So a lot of
them do just as good shit as Richard Everett the
nine one one dispatch. You did a lot of them.
Have you know good that good intentions of I took
this job because I want to help people for this
exact reason, but you take it on a case by
case basis. Yeah, So if you meet a person you
get the weird feeling in your gut, absolutely trust yourself

(01:11:04):
and just get out of there. You know what I mean,
you don't. That's that's what all that's about.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
It's like to the individual, arm yourself with knowledge, but
don't let that overwhelm you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Yeah, and also take a break every once in a while.
And like the other day is some girls like I
had a She tweeted, I had a hard day at work.
I'm gonna drink wine and watch I survived, And I
wrote back, drink wine and watch Bob's Burger. If you
already had a bad day, relax.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
That's a great suggestion.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Take a break. Watch fucking Rosemary and Time, where it's
a lot of nice flowers, a lot of great accents.
It's chill, you don't live in it, like like visit
and then go somewhere else for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
That's a beautiful take it. Have a glass of wine
and watch Bob's Burgers as like Bob's.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Burgers is the Oh my god, it makes me so happy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
It is the most a perfect show.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
It's positive, it's a family that loves each other. That's
funny that that isn't perfect at all, and it's hilarious relatable.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
My six year old nephew is obsessed with Bob's Burgers.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
The songs they write for that show are the best
comedy songs there are. Yeah, it is my favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
How they come up with those every episode goes my mind.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Whoever their musical I should look it up right now,
whoever their musical director is fucking straight up one thousand
props to Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Nuts And that's Karen. That was You tell those stories
so well.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
It's almost like I'm not cheating, Yeah when I am?

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Are you I wouldn't know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
This is a podcast where some of the time I
just retell TV shows.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
But you say that, but you tell them, you don't
read them.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
That's true because I've seen that one. Jennifer's I've watched
probably five times because she tells it. It's it's so compelling.
She's so real, she's upset at certain points, she's very
angry and like very self righteous at certain points. It's
a fucking awesome thing to behold. So she's a great survivor.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
You tell it to me like we're at a party together,
Whereas like if I did mine, it would be like
so many missing elements of it because I can't remember
half the shit that like I have to kind of
like go off my own notes, which I don't copy
and paste, but you know I lead with them, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
But I mean I'm just copying her story. Wow, I mean,
that's that's stories though, you just yeah, that's why I
learned to tell stories, is just both of my parents,
that's all they did. Yeah, It's like we're sitting by
the fire, two cavemen, two cavemen, sitting by fire, tales
as old as time.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
The only thing we have to eat, our cookies.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
Oh and did someone come running from I didn't say
it right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
Oh, he's just he's a job of the hut right now.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
Guys, thanks for listening, do all the things that you're
supposed to do and support. We love you. We couldn't
be doing better. And it's because you guys all listen
and support and do all the things we always ask
you to do. We couldn't thank you more for that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
The best listener like you, guys are the best.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
It's we are so lucky.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
We are so fucking lucky. Just make sure that you
stay sexy and you don't get murdered. Elvis, you want
to cook Key, you want to cook y? Okay, we
are back. Wow, and I know you have an update.
It's epic.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Tell us so, as George was talking about, of course
you listeners really reacted to this story and really loved it.
And then basically Jennifer Morey herself heard about this episode
and this is a story she told us backstage in Dallas.
I believe Dallas. Yeah, when she came on to our

(01:14:58):
live we invited her to the live show, but we
first got an email from her, and that was one
of the scariest moments. Where truly it was fully like,
now I understand what we're doing and the reality of
what we're doing, and I think that this is like
truly the beginning of a shift because all of the
kind of conjecture, far away feeling that we had about

(01:15:21):
the topics we were talking about and the people we
were talking about, it was like the wave after wave
of lessons over and over of like real people, real experiences,
real relatives, real survivors, all those things. So that email
from Jennifer moriy I was like, Oh, she's going to
be I set that down. She said basically, my friend
said that she had heard this podcast and they told

(01:15:44):
my story, and I was really nervous. I sat down
and listened and I loved it and I was so
moved and thank you so much, and it was her
telling us thank you, and it was I was so grateful.
I was like, it was amazing. So then when we
went to we knew that's where she lived, so we're like,
if you in any way want to be there, we

(01:16:05):
would love to. If you want to just watch it,
if you want to come on stage, And so she
came backstage. She walked on stage as our surprise guest,
at the end of that show in Dallas and the
audience went insane, and then she You can listen to
episode ninety five. You can listen to all of it
how it went. Episode ninety five is a live show
called Jesus with a G and Jennifer Moore gives people

(01:16:28):
a pep talk at the end. That's one of the
most beautiful things that I'm so grateful of all the
things I'm grateful for because of this podcast, because of
us doing this and the way it's gone good or bad.
The fact that that moment happened, I think is like,
those are the thing to me. Then it was like, Oh,
we just need to start doing stuff like this and

(01:16:49):
this will be right, this will be the legacy.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
We did her right, and that felt so good. I
remember the whole show. I was so nervous, Yeah, the
entire time to Inviyrn And she's a lawyer too, which
is just like you just are always nervous around lawyers
because we're gonna say the wrong fucking thing.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
That's right, And also like, yeah, she had the right
to come on and say whatever if she wanted to
come on and say, hey, you guys are really insensitive
and I think you should do a different thing. We
would have loved to have received that as well. Definitely,
we just kind of wanted the fact that she even
wanted to be there, we really loved. But then how
she was was just very much what I have seen

(01:17:26):
a lot of times, at least of the survivors on
I Survived, the people who are like truly stronger than
they were before. And it's just like, she is such
an inspirational person, and it kind she got to kind
of represent herself fully and freely. It was great.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
Yeah, yeah, all right, that was powerful. So should we
wrap this up?

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
Yeah, let's wrap it up. When I saw I remember
this title, I love George's cat Mimi a lot. She's
really she's an iconoclast and she's a rebel, and she
has the tiniest cat mouth that's ever existed in the
cat species.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Angry heart, tiny mouth. Yeah, she's gonna live forever out
of spite. Yeah, to cookie and mouth, like just to
spite them.

Speaker 1 (01:18:06):
Yeah, she's mad. But so we named this podcast what
About Mimi?

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Yeah, but if we were naming it today, which we
always name it after something that happened in the episode,
here's a couple options Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
Let's see, I apologize for calling the British the British
crime series Rosemary and Time, which is from probably nineteen
ninety eight. I would guess I called that a Grandma
crime show, and so in corrections corner, I said I
loved seeing people take the time to drink tea and

(01:18:38):
eat cookies and British procedurals. So the suggestion is drink
tea and eat cookies.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
Yeah, that's a solid one. And then our whole gift
conversation and not doing it that would be called friendship rules. Yeah,
and I think friendship rules are an important part of
adult friendships.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
So let's do it very true. How about we respect
some boundaries? Yeah, come on, get involved.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
Thanks for listening, you guys to rewind. We appreciate it.
We hope you like it. We hope you keep listening.
We'll keep making them. If so, let us know in
the comments.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
There's also besides this old episode, there's like four hundred others,
as Georgia was saying, So you know, just enjoy the
back catalog as much as you'd like to, and stay
sexy and don't get murdered. Good Bye, Elvis.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
Do you want a COOKI

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 33: What About Mimi?

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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