The Sanity in Sacrifice

In episode 3, The Sanity in Sacrifice we hear from 1st Sgt. Robert Ray on the reality of post-deployment hardships, honest moments of questioning oneself on the battlefield and the stark reality of the toll multiple deployments takes on Soldiers. In the second half, we bring in friends of the show Jason Smith and Darrius White who have made strides for service members, with tangible resources.
If you or a loved one is struggling, please use the resources available at this link: https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/ or call 988.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to AGR. I'll have a guard radio. I'm
Staff Sergeant Jacob.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hearn and I'm Sergeant Megan Terry.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Today we have kind of a heavy episode, guys, So
just a disclaimer that there will be talks of suicide
and suicide ideation.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
If you or any of your loved ones, your friends,
your battle buddies are experiencing any type of mental health crisis,
pick up your phone and call nine eight eight. That's
the Veteran Crisis line. And please do not leave any
of your friends, your loved one, or your battles alone
during a time of crisis.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
In this episode, we're sitting down with First Sergeant Robert Ray,
who's been in.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
The military for a long time.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
He's deployed all over and because of that, he's seen
a lot, including combat, and he's dealt with a lot too,
the mental strain, the physical strain, as well as the
emotional strain that does to somebody. And he's here to
talk about how he's dealt with that in his life
and share some of his stories.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
Looking at the different things that we have to deal
with as soldiers and deal with the sacrifices, you know,
the separation from family, it takes this toll mentally for
you to have to leave your wife and kids, or
it could just be the fact that you're leaving your parents,
or your brother, or your sister, or your nephews and nieces.
You know that that time away really starts working on you.

(01:17):
And there's different things. I think people don't really realize
until we come back.

Speaker 5 (01:22):
Until we come back home.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
We start looking at pictures of family events and like
Halloween costumes or a birthday party, or unwrapping presents at
a Christmas and you're like.

Speaker 5 (01:36):
Why am I not in these pictures?

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:38):
Yeah, this was the year that I was gone.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
Like, you know, just all these memories that you weren't
there physically for and that I think can kind of
take its toll on us. You know, you find in
a way you feel guilty and you don't want to
because you were serving your country and you were protecting
you know, in the essence, you're protecting your family, just
on a different scale. But having to deal with that

(02:03):
and the ramifications that can come from that, I mean,
it's it could take its toll on you mentally.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
I think First Ergeant Rage wined the infantry in nineteen
eighty nine, From that point, he's been all over Afghanistan, Iraq.
If there's a deployment in the Middle East, he probably
did it. Now he finds his home at the Fort
McClellan Training Center taking care of soldiers.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
In the Iraq deployment, there was a lot more danger involved,
and that's where you really you know, when you're out
in the field and you're leaving the safe haven of a.

Speaker 5 (02:36):
FOB or a COB or what they want to call it.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
When you're leaving that base and you're out there unprotected
and you're basing everything on your training, on your wits
and your fellow you know, soldiers that are out there,
and you're going to encounter some things that really will
take its toll on you mentally. When we're driving down roads,
we would get hit with IEDs quite often. The good

(03:01):
thing about the time frame that we were in this
is four time frame four oh five. They were still
kind of learning in the area that we were in,
so the ads weren't like huge, but they could still
rattle you. And which was also their point too. If
they're not gonna if they're not going to kill you,

(03:21):
they're at least going to get in your head. Maybe
we don't want them coming out on these roads and
checking out this particular area, you know, and uh, I
think our vehicle took about seven hits. We always took track,
you know. It's kind of the morbid part of being
in the infantry. You want to you know, we survived
this many IDs on our vehicles and stuff like that,
and uh so you had the protection and everything with that,

(03:42):
but when you're driving down those roads, it does take
its toll after a while. And we're driving down roads
that are in much worse condition than I fifty nine
driving up towards Fort Payne, Like it's there's some holes
in the roads that you're basically having to maneuver through
and we've just to avoid because that's where an ied was.

(04:03):
And so you're driving down these ied ridden roads or
you know, laden roads, and there could be another id
inside the hole that they had already made because you
think you're safe because like, well, they're not going to
use that area again, but they do, and so you're
driving through there and it's just like you know, you're
you're you've got to pardon my phrase, but the pucker

(04:24):
factor is quite high when you're driving down these roads
and you just you're on edge the entire time, and
time after time, day after day, you're having to go
out and do these missions and you're like why am
I doing this, you know? Or why would I want
to do this? And there was a point where I
just didn't want to do it and I was just like,

(04:45):
man's what's going on? Like this is my job as
an Infantryman, I cannot stop doing this job.

Speaker 5 (04:51):
And I just it was like a I don't know.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
At that moment, I really had to because we were
having to get ready to go out in a mission.
I didn't want to go, and I'm like, this is
not going to be the right mind frame that you
have to have when you're going out on the field.
And I just took a moment and I was like
praying to God and it was like a moment of
clarity where this peace came around and over me and said,

(05:16):
you know, your family will be okay. If something were
to happen to you, Everything's going to be all right,
you know. You know they're gonna be saved. And maybe
the time that I spent with them prior to is
enough where they will remember, you know, things that I
was there for them.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
You know, do you And this might be kind of
an unfair question, but do you think that's fair to
think about with families that hey, well.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
I might die and my wife will be fine.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
I knew that, you know, I lived my life right.
I'd done everything to be a model father to my
kids and a model husband to my wife, and so
I didn't have any regrets. I guess was kind of
the perspective I was looking at as well. But the
biggest part, I think was that I could accept if

(06:04):
I were to die in the field, that everything that
I'd left as far as to them being who I
was and in our marriage, was in a great place
and everything. And then after that, I was like, all right,
I think I can do this mission. Now, I think
I can get my focus back. And it was that

(06:25):
moment that you know, just I wouldn't say it got better,
because there were still issues. There were still I ads,
there were still wires that you would find and try
to identify, and you know, warning your troops and being
there for your fellow soldier. But you know, there was
a lot of sacrifice in that. In that sanity, I
think that I finally got hold of I.

Speaker 5 (06:46):
Was about to lose it.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
I really did think I was about to lose my
sanity at that point. But if it wasn't for that
moment of clarity, I just don't know. I don't know
if i'd have been able to make it back. Another
instance shortly after that, just well two instances.

Speaker 6 (07:00):
Really.

Speaker 5 (07:00):
That was the confirmation of.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
Not being invincible, but understanding that I'm okay so far.
And while we're out there.

Speaker 5 (07:11):
We had the furthest out position with our hum V.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
It was just me and my squad and gunner up top.
I was the TC, so I'm in the front on
the radio. We're just kind of getting updates on what's
going on further away from us. But our job was
basically to make sure no one's coming down the street
to interfere with what was going on in the middle,
like we're on the outside. And the mission ended up

(07:33):
going a little bit longer than normal, so we're out
there for a few hours.

Speaker 5 (07:38):
My gunner, even though we come prepared.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
Ran out of water, and I was like, okay, I'll
get out, get over here. We'll pop the top and
get you some water and everything. And as I'm around
the back end of the hum V and I popped
the trunk I dropped the water.

Speaker 5 (07:54):
I was like, ah, and I look down and.

Speaker 4 (07:56):
I'm standing on top of three IEDs, like right there
on top shells. We had submerged them a little bit
when we rode over them to set up where we were,
but we never saw him.

Speaker 5 (08:06):
It was out of the gunner's view to know.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
So I'm right now on top of these things, and
that good thing. I wasn't wearing white shorts at that
day or anything, but I mean, just what was going
through my head was like, you know, holy cow, you
know what could happen? Is someone watching me right now
and is going to.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Pull that trigger.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
So I very early but not letting anybody know, you know,
hand the water to the gunner, get in the truck,
like okay, we got to move. We need to move
now and get out of here. And we moved further up,
got three hundred yards away. I think that was the
distance that they wanted us to do. We called in
the EOD guys and they came over and they blew

(08:49):
it in place. But they said that was that was
a whopper, Like y'all, y'all literally dodged a bullet on
that one. And that was boy, that's a moment that
you know, again in that mental state, you're like, holy cow,
the other one and this one's relatively funny, but not

(09:09):
in a way when you think about it. But we
we came under a mortar attack and we were in
a potato factory. That's that was our little sub base
because it had already the fencing and everything around, and
we were in one of the storage containers for the potatoes.
So you're looking at the structure, You're thinking, it's like
steel walls. Hey, we're safe in this little area. We can,

(09:31):
you know, lay up our cot You're you're done, You're
you know, this is our little safe haven. And during
the mortar attack, I was laying to just come off mission, really,
and so I was laying down and one of my.

Speaker 5 (09:44):
Escapes was the PSP.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
I don't know if people know what the the old
Sony PlayStation.

Speaker 5 (09:49):
It was a little portable.

Speaker 4 (09:51):
This is my escape, you know, playing this video game.
So I'm sitting there playing this video game and then
the mortar attack occurs and as I'm laying down there,
it was like and the only thing I can compare
this to was if someone took an aluminum baseball bat
and came up and just swung as hard or as
fast as they could and struck me in the leg.

(10:13):
And it was to the point where it immediately had
me come up out of the bed. And then everybody's
like scrambling because we obviously heard the impact and everything
of what was going on, and it didn't register to
me until I tried to stand and my left leg
went a little like I'm like what And I looked

(10:34):
down and I've got a little bit of blood going
and I'm like, man, I'm hit.

Speaker 5 (10:39):
I was like, this is not cool. I was like this,
you know, I'm laying down in a bed.

Speaker 4 (10:44):
This is no glory of being caught by some piece
of shrapnel or something, which is what it ended up being.
And of course, you know, my battle buddies are there
and they're like having me go limp into the little
TMC area that they had established at this little post,
and they're trying to dig through and get any kind
of metal fragments out of me and everything, and so

(11:06):
I'm just just h But it was one of those things.
But at the end of it all, a couple of
guys went up to the roof after everything was done.
The mortar attack only lasts you know, there's only like
three shells at the time, and then it was done.
It was almost like when you watch mash and they
have five o'clock, Charlie comes in, he drops three bombs.
He's gone for the day and may come back in
about a week. That's kind of how it was over there.

(11:27):
You'd get the three shells and then you know, everybody's
on break after that, just.

Speaker 5 (11:32):
Knowing that we're not going to get mortar.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
So afterwards, the guys go up to the roof to
kind of check out the assess the damage, and they
had found the tail fin. And it turns out of
all the things that prevented anybody else getting hurt because
of a couple of people got peppered with some shell
fragments and everything, But there was a huge beam that
had held or part of the structure of the building

(11:56):
that took the brunt of the impact, and that beam
was right above me. So again one of those things
where I'm not trying to feel like I'm invincible, but
at the same.

Speaker 5 (12:06):
Time, I'm like, holy cow.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
You know, it's just all these little things that occur
that you're just like, man, won the world. What have
I gotten into? One am I again, why am I here?
You know, what is this? But but those little things
that we're able to get through, and we had other
people going through the same thing we've had.

Speaker 5 (12:26):
Within our group. We had guys get pretty lit up
with an ID.

Speaker 4 (12:32):
Fortunately no lives were lost in that group, but they
got rattled pretty good. You know, all these things that
are happening, and it just makes you so hyper aware
of what's going on out in front of you and everything.
And so yeah, I say that all that to say this,
you're you're enduring all this, you know, inadvertently being shot at.

(12:52):
There was one really major attack that well, yeah, one
really major attack that we took on at the fove
that we were able to do in door, and there
was some satisfaction in that because all that training that
we had done and everything that we had done had
paid off.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
And since since you were you said that on your
team during that experience, you were older compared to some
of like the you know, fuzzies it sounded like, or
the brand new kids. Did you have any of the
younger soldiers that like look to you for guidance or

(13:27):
was there conversations happening about like how do we how
do we do that, how do we focus in on what.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
We have to do.

Speaker 5 (13:34):
So I don't know if we ever directly.

Speaker 4 (13:37):
Hit with that, but what I did as a leader,
and I was just an E six at the time,
so if anything, I was just a squad leader. I
wasn't like a platoon leader at the time. We had
a great platoon leader though, and he instilled strengthened us
as well. One of the one of the things that

(13:59):
happened after we had taken our first ied and I'll
throw his name out there too, startin Brown. He was
a great master sarn for us. He took me and
my battle buddy, which was and now sart Major Ratcliffe.

Speaker 5 (14:15):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (14:15):
He took us aside and he was like, I'm I
don't want this to sound bad, but I'm glad y'all
got hit with that. I ed, We're like what, and
he's like, well, for one, you're all alive, but two,
now you're going to know how to react because now
that fear of you know, getting hit is somewhat taken away,
so now you will be able to react a little

(14:37):
bit faster on what you're doing. So we have moments
like that. But what Ratcliffe and I did, we joked around.
I wouldn't say it was like mash. We wouldn't like
Hawkeye and you know, but in BJ but we we
tried to keep everything somewhat on an even keel. So

(14:57):
we knew when the stress was up, you'd have to
turn off a little bit on, you know, getting a
little bit of funny in there just to get a
smile or somebody.

Speaker 5 (15:06):
And so we knew as leaders we would have to give.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
Some kind of an example to these these young soldiers
and everything that were going through. We tried to set
that example in that tone that you know, everything's going
to be all right and that we would be there.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
For What was really surprising to Staff Sergeant Herne and
myself was when First Sergeant Race shared with us the
most difficult part of his deployment didn't happen overseas. It
happened when he came home.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
We knew we were there for each other when we
were overseas. When you come back home, it's a different story.
And nowadays, I think when you were looking at some
of the historical aspects the World War Two, the World
War One soldiers, it took quite a while for them
to come back home like they're on ships, it's weeks
could be months in transition from being in the field

(15:57):
to coming back home with us. I think you were
literally three or four days and you're back home, you know,
the turnaround of coming back to Fort Stewart. I think
we were practically done in three three days, and then
we're maybe two or three days of a transition to

(16:20):
get back to your house, house, and then you're home,
and that's not a lot of time to really process
a lot of that stuff that happened while you're out there.

Speaker 5 (16:30):
You know.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
When I was back and in that shorter time, there
were times where I didn't want to leave the house
because I was conditioned for a year to be with
my weapon, like an infantry. God, we're sleeping with the weapon,
and do you have it by your side at all
times when you're leaving outside of your area, you've got

(16:51):
your vest and your hemet on. I realized that for
almost three or four weeks, I didn't want to leave
my house because I didn't have my weapon. I didn't
have my vest, I didn't have my helmet. Like I
didn't want to go outside to even cut the grass
because I was coming out unprotected. I was coming out naked, Like,
how am I going to be able to protect myself

(17:13):
if you know, I was in that mindset still, and
that was tough. My wife got onto me because I'm
driving down the road and I'm in a fifty mile
per hour zone and I'm going thirty and she's like,
what are you doing? And I'm like, I realized, I
was scanning the roads. You know, I'm looking for boxes.
I'm looking for potential threats while I'm on the road

(17:34):
because I'm protecting my family, just like I protected my
family when I was in that home v you know,
those those soldiers were my family. And so I think
there's a lot of issues that we have with that
that we like a turning that switch back on as
far as you know, your life, but b overcoming the
things that you've gone through and you know, just trying

(17:58):
to get in the right mindset of when you're back home.
One of the things we're very proud of is all
of us made it back. N N zero Ki is
within Alpha Company, U of the one six seven. So
we were very proud of ourselves on that cause that's
when you know, all that training paid off and everything,

(18:19):
so you come back home, you got forty five days
worth a leave built up. I think it was the
magic number where we didn't have to do anything. We
were still collecting our check, I didn't have to immediately
go back to work or anything. And so for you know,
those forty five days, you're kind of taking it easy
other than the fact I didn't wanna leave the house
for a couple of weeks. But in that time frame,

(18:42):
about a month into UH one of our guys committed
suicide and he was not very far from me as
far as where I was living, and that was the
most devastating thing I think that could possibly happen.

Speaker 5 (18:58):
You know. One of the things.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
That that we never really thought about was still contacting
each other when we got back home, and I think
that's been improved on now. I think there's a lot
of a lot more access to people that can help
people in turning on that switch and getting that switch
back on. And then I think it's been emphasized more

(19:21):
on the units as well. When you're coming back home
that you are talking that you don't just cut off
and go back to your life, but to still contact
those guys that you were with and see how they're doing,
you know, And I think we did know too, and
it was unfortunate that the suicide brought us back together

(19:41):
a little bit faster in that forty five days that
we were off. But I think we all realize we
need to be talking, like we need.

Speaker 5 (19:51):
To start talking about some of this stuff.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
That maybe we buried or maybe we didn't think about,
or maybe I didn't think about it. But man, this
may have affected this guy, you know, So maybe we
should start talking about some of this stuff, or maybe
I can get you to someone who you need to
talk to, because I'm no professional, but we can talk
about the fact that we went through it together, you know.
And it's amazing how little things will trigger you. I

(20:18):
think it was well after the forty five days because well,
I know it was because I was on my way
to work and it was just a particular piece of music.

Speaker 5 (20:26):
I don't know what it was about that song.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
I don't know if it was in a movie, like
maybe it was in some war movie that I saw
and it made me revert back to something that happened
in Iraq. But I just broke down and I had
to pull off the road because I couldn't concentrate to
drive because I was just bawling.

Speaker 5 (20:45):
And I don't know if it was a little bit
of a mix of just being on the road.

Speaker 4 (20:51):
And listening to the music and referring back to something
that may have been in a movie, or the fact
that I had just lost a friend to suicide, or
if it was just a combination of every thing, but
I couldn't I don't know. A year later and I
relayed that, and I think Radcliffe got on to me immediately, Man,
why didn't you call me, Like right when that happened,

(21:14):
you should have been calling me and talking to me
about it.

Speaker 5 (21:17):
And I was like, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
It was just hard to process trying to figure out
what triggered it in the first place. And then but then,
just you know, after I had my moment there, I
was able to kind of gather myself back up and
get back on the road, and then you know, I
got to work and let work kind of preoccupy my
mind again, so I almost like shut it to the side.
But maybe I should have talked about it. And then, well,

(21:41):
of course we did talk about it. After that, You're like, well,
what do you think triggered it? I have no idea,
you know, we just started going over some of the
things that we went through, and we're like, you know,
we went maybe we went through more than what we
were just thinking, you know, maybe there were some more
instances that we were just like just kind of buried
over over time, and you get and it kind of
is scary in a way, but it makes you really

(22:03):
consider talking to some professionals to see, like, maybe I
need to let some of this stuff out so that
you know, something doesn't happen.

Speaker 5 (22:11):
I think the biggest thing is that this.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
I guess we get caught up on the guard because
it's just one weekend a month that we're seeing these
people in some cases and then two weeks out of
the year. It's getting to know that soldier a little
bit more than just on that weekend, spending time with
them and getting to know a lot of the ins
and outs, and sometimes it can help you in the motivation,
you know, if they're in a moment where they're needing

(22:35):
some clarity, if you know, do you want to you know,
think about the fact that your wife's back home. Let's
get out on this mission. Let's focus on the mission
so that we can get you back home to her,
you know that kind of thing. So I think getting
to know the soldiers more intimately. I think being able
to know more about them and what's making them tick.

(22:58):
Why did they join the army, why are they this,
what do they do on the civilian side, so that
you know more about them, And then in turn, that
person that that soldier is going to sit there and go,
he does know about me, you know, he does care
about me. If he's telling me to do something, maybe
I should do it because he's looking out for me,

(23:19):
and you know the things I have back home because
he knows what things I have back home instead of
just a just a soldier, you know.

Speaker 5 (23:29):
But I mean the.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
Emphasis of resiliency, it's huge, and we see the we
see the numbers still staying steady on people committing suicide
even if they haven't deployed. And I think that's one
of those things where we still have to know ourselves,
like or know that person that you're working with, even
if it's a cubicle dividing, you get over there and

(23:50):
talk to him, you know, get some interaction, have Hawaiian
shirt Friday. I don't know something that's going to entertain,
but I think it's just keeping on looking out for
each other. Not just at while you're at work, but
even after, you know, give a call, give it a
little text, throw of Facebook thumbs up or something, but
just being there for each other all the time. I mean,

(24:12):
just don't don't cut that off, and don't just limit
it to those two days out of the month.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Despite everything first Sergeant Ray went through and how hard
it was for him coming home, he did have a
lot to say about the newfound appreciation he had for
his life here, his life back home, and what going
overseas meant for him, his family, and everyone else he knew.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
I have so much more appreciation for anything, like coming
back home. I don't think I ever had more of
appreciation for green grass, like just being in a desert
the entire time. Have an appreciation for my kids just
to have clothing and shoes on their feet, because you
were seeing so many kids just walking around literally and

(24:55):
garbage day in and day out, like just looking for
something that they could use, looking for scraps of food
or something. And I'm coming back home to where man,
I'm having to watch my weight for a weigh in
or a PT test or something. You know, there's the
appreciation of just what I have and the house doesn't

(25:16):
have to be a glorified house. As long as we
have a roof over his we don't have chickens and
cows in our living room. That's a blessing, you know.
I think there was just a huge appreciation for things,
and I think it helped me.

Speaker 5 (25:30):
I guess I have enough. It instilled with.

Speaker 4 (25:35):
Us a good confidence in the fact that everything that
we'd been doing for so many years, you were going
to a weekend Drew and two weeks out of the year,
if I have to go to Camp Shelby one more
time to do all this training, where's the payoff? And
I think that was the biggest accomplishment that we like.
That was just the biggest thing coming back home, was

(25:56):
this sense of accomplishment that all that training that we
did paid off, and then we're going to keep on
training because you never know what's around the corner, you
know what's going to happen next. But you got that
encouragement that you did everything that you were supposed to do,
that all that training, you didn't think twice when it
came down to the means of having to do something,

(26:19):
to have to act or have to react.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Forst Curtain Ray Thank you so much for taking the
time to sit down and talk with us. Your story
is one that has the potential to impact other people's lives,
and now we get the chance to sit down with
our good friends Jason and Darius.

Speaker 7 (26:37):
Right.

Speaker 8 (26:37):
Yeah, my name is Darius Whites and I do suicide
prevention here for the Alabama Army National Guard.

Speaker 6 (26:42):
My name is Jason Smith.

Speaker 9 (26:43):
I'm the Resiliency risk Reduction of suicide prevention program manager
for the Alabama National Goaler.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Jason and Darius are both suicide prevention coordinators for the state.
You've actually met Darius before if you've listened to the show.
He was on our first episode. But I want to
take a second to describe these two because they're very different,
but they both work in the exact same field. Jason
is an ex marine. He looks the part. Honestly, he
looks a lot like my stepdad. He's an X Marine, bald, goate, tattoos,

(27:10):
the works. You've seen him before if you know an
X marine.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Big Burley seems intimidating at first, but at the end
of the day, he's actually like a big teddy bear.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
And then we also have Darius, young guy dreads earrings,
really cool, really laid back. But he's not a veteran,
he's a military child. But both of them are in
the same field, and although they both come from completely
different backgrounds, you can tell this as a subject that
they care about and they really care about the soldiers
that they're taken care of.

Speaker 9 (27:36):
I'll share my story. I'll share my story a lot.
Most people who have heard me speak, they kind of
know my story and where I'm coming from. And in
twenty years in the Marine Corps, I've got a wife
and two kids.

Speaker 6 (27:48):
Very blessed.

Speaker 9 (27:49):
However, while I was in a Marine Corps back to
back deployments, you know, Iraq Ramadi two and seven, two
thousand and eight, and back to Alisades here on board
in two thousand and nine. Around twenty ten when I
lost my first marine to suicide. And you know, at
the time, that concept was kind of foreign to us.

Speaker 6 (28:09):
We were, you know, in the military. It's kind of that.

Speaker 9 (28:11):
Sucking up buttercup mentality. We don't talk about our problem,
we don't talk about any of that stuff. And that
that started to be one of the biggest things that
led to a lot of my problems. And I would
not talk about things I drank, and I drank for
fun when I got in the Marine Corps. I drank
for funny when I was in high school. But they

(28:31):
turned a point in my career where drinking became a
coping skill. Every night going to work and being high
performer was a coping skill. It was a constant, and
you just couldn't go speak to somebody about mental health,
you know, And that was, I think, trust tragic point
looking back now at, you know, some of the things
that that cost. And then when I got out of

(28:52):
the Marine Corps, that's when things got really different. You
know that we had talked earlier about trying to transition
from the military over to civilian life, and I did
not transition well in the corporate America because you don't
have that tribe, you don't have that environment that you
thrived in for twenty years, and plus anything that you
had going on. You know, for me, I couldn't share
that with anybody. I didn't know how to talk about it.

(29:14):
And finally, you know, there's a point in life where
you hit rock bottom and I can tell you my.

Speaker 6 (29:19):
Story kind of like this.

Speaker 9 (29:22):
We were talking about land Nab earlier, and I tell everybody
man you can go three degrees in the wrong direction
for a short period of time, it won't make that
big of a difference.

Speaker 6 (29:29):
But if you keep.

Speaker 9 (29:29):
Doing land now for fifty to one hundred miles to
a thousand miles three degrees in the wrong direction, it's
going to catch.

Speaker 6 (29:35):
Up with you.

Speaker 9 (29:35):
In the alcohol, the anger, the not wanting to go
get help type stuff eventually called up and it was disastrous.
Two years after I retired and I had to go
in to treatment for alcohol. And it wasn't just the alcohol.
That was just the outside layer of the onion that
I was dealing with, you know. And what I didn't
realize I had two kids. Dar's going to share his
story about being dependent child. And you know, in my mind,

(29:58):
I was in a silo thinking about all the bats
off and then ruminating over these negative things all the time.

Speaker 6 (30:03):
And the alcohol was my coping skill.

Speaker 9 (30:06):
It was supposed to helped me sleep and all, and
it didn't. I know, that stuff really helps, And I
was worried about what my marines would think about me
if I went. You know that I told him I
went and got help, and you know, all that stuff
that we think in our minds sometimes that that imagination
dragon I call it in our head, makes things a
whole hell of a lot worse than they really are.
When I got out of treatment and called my marines
and told them where I'd been, most of them were

(30:27):
going through some of the same stuff. Man, most of
them were dealing with some of the same things I
was dealing with. And they were there was one question
A lot of asking is like why don't you call me?
And why don't you call me to say, man, I
need some help? And right there that's my eyes opened
up and I started pouring myself into this role what
I'm doing now a couple of years ago doing peer support.
So I do peer recurby support, so I help other

(30:47):
veterans and military members who were struggle with alcohol and
drugs and things like that. But it's the residiency piece
that I think I was missing in my life because
we were only taught a few skills in the Marine
Corps and it was like go work out, go to church,
or you gonna drink. Three things about all your coping
skills you hadd and know with your buddies, and man,
there's so much more out there. And then I know
from when I when I got sober. Uh hearing my

(31:10):
kids story. You know, my daughter tell me you know, Dad,
I was watching the news and they were talking about
where you were at, and I'll just go in my
room and cry.

Speaker 6 (31:16):
You know, we don't think about what the kids.

Speaker 9 (31:19):
The families are dealing with from a residency standpoints. So
it's a very unique perspective from them as well. So
but as far as you know where I'm at now
in my life, it's my eyes are definitely open. I'll
make it a point to share the stories. I believe
stories save lives. And a lot of times the checking
the box training doesn't work. It's it's a waste, truly.

Speaker 6 (31:40):
If it did work, we wouldn't have the problems we're
having now, right.

Speaker 9 (31:43):
I think it takes getting neecap and kneecap, being genuine
and telling real stories because somebody in that crowd is
going through that same thing or know somebody and they know, man,
just call this person or just think about doing this
this way, man, you know, reach out. So but yeah, so, man,
I got sober. You know when there was a good
part of this. We're about to college, get my master's degree.

(32:05):
I worked for a great little gun store down here
in Montgomery, walked to Craig. I love them to death.
They you know, my best friend worked there. They took
me in. I went to school, got my master's. I
came here to the National Guard. Worked for a year.

Speaker 6 (32:16):
Now.

Speaker 9 (32:17):
I left here and went to Black Rifle Colbee Company.
It was HR manager there for two years. That was
kind of crazy. I can never do HR again. Left
there and went to Bradford, a place where I got
sober and started helping bets Man and they got a
lot of folks in the treatment man and and then
this position opened up. And so now I'm on the
Zelancy side of the house. And you know, at the
end of the day.

Speaker 6 (32:35):
It's all about building the tribe.

Speaker 9 (32:37):
And I think that's what Dais and I and the
rest of the residency team are trying to do is
building a team of resources and people we can reach
out to at any time of the day and so
everybody know it's okay to reach out and get some help.

Speaker 6 (32:46):
Sore.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Is it different with the Marines?

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Do you feel like the mental health culture is different
or was different or does it all?

Speaker 3 (32:55):
Does it matter? Just this is a military thing.

Speaker 6 (32:58):
Right right.

Speaker 9 (32:58):
I mean, if you look at the numbers you can
see the numbers of the Marine Corps and the Army
are significantly higher than the theyve being the Air Force.
You look at numberwise, you still got a motley crew
of characters in all branches, and we all have our
own stigmas. So I think stigma in general, it one.
It tends to revolve around worried about being viewed as weak.
It revolves around worried about when you lose your security
clearance or somebody find out about your business.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (33:20):
But I think in general it's all about the same.
And I think too, and I like to rope in
our first responder community because a lot of our National
Guard members serve as first responders. That's another that's another
culture that's very similar to ours, and they see a
lot of trauma day in and day out, and don't
you know, they take a lot of that stuff home
and don't know how to get it out, uh, you know,
when they're off work. So uh, I think it's I

(33:41):
think it's just the culture of the people who raise
their right hand and protect others that run into the fight,
not away from it.

Speaker 6 (33:49):
I think that crew just tends to be a.

Speaker 9 (33:52):
Little bit more self reserved about their feelings and about
what they believe and who they can tell. Uh, you know,
I was talking about doing a new higher orientation this morning.
I said, you know, it's weird. It's like, if you
hurt your knee, you'll go to the doctor, you'll get
put on limited duty, and then you'll go to rehab
and get your knee worked out and taken care of
so you get back in the fight.

Speaker 6 (34:10):
But if you're having a mental.

Speaker 9 (34:11):
Health issue, you won't say nothing, you know, And that's
really controlling everything, and this stuff all ties together. Drinking
wasn't the thing that my problem was. My problem was
I couldn't sleep, and I couldn't stop thinking about things,
and I had chronic pain, and I wasn't eating right,
and I wasn't peteen like I used to when I
was in the Marine Corps. And I was drinking every
night and I was getting angry. So there's like this

(34:32):
big cycle that you get and it's not just one thing.
And like I said, we can take care of the
broken leg or the missed up knee, but we won't
go take care of that one thing that really controls
all the other aspects of our life.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
So do you think when you were down range, it
was easier to shut it off, and then when he
got home it was much harder.

Speaker 6 (34:50):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 9 (34:51):
When we were Ramadi, we lived in a little house
downtown and downtown Ramadi, and it were seven of us
on my team sleeping in the same room together. We
only had six beds, and so we would rotate out
and we had to cook our meals and we had
like a line to dry our clothes on. But we
ate dinner every night when we weren't out, we ate together.
We were constantly together.

Speaker 6 (35:10):
And I don't know, I tell people.

Speaker 9 (35:12):
Like man, even though we had mortars going off, we
had rounds going off for some nights. Man, I just
slept better there than I did when I got home.
It was just a weird, weird thing because you're around
that group of people and you're.

Speaker 6 (35:23):
So tight and you are talking.

Speaker 9 (35:25):
You do have that connection when you're down range deployed,
and then when you get back you don't have you.

Speaker 6 (35:31):
Know, it's just not something you normally talk about.

Speaker 9 (35:34):
I think one thing is you got to remove the barriers.
You know, we talk about this a lot. There's still
a lot of barriers out there. If you get if
you get a group of marines or soldiers together and
ask them, hey, how many of you probably wouldn't say
anything about your mental health. The half the people still
raise their hand and say, man, I'm worried, and they'll
tell you those things I told you earlier about security cleaning.
So all the other miss I think we got to
remove that and make it clear that this is this

(35:56):
is a big part operationally how you operate. Your mental
health has a lot to do with that, and so
be open about that. Uh to the connection part, you know,
like I said when I was in remody, the first
time that core group of guys, we've been together and
we are like still close friends till now.

Speaker 6 (36:13):
And back to that analogy of World War Two.

Speaker 9 (36:15):
Yeah, they they spent time together, you know, on R
and R for months before they even came back home.

Speaker 6 (36:20):
Whereas you know, yeah, I'm on the site her on
boarder this day.

Speaker 9 (36:23):
Two days later, I'm back in North Carolina camp in June,
you know, with my family.

Speaker 6 (36:28):
Uh, just getting right back at it.

Speaker 9 (36:30):
I don't know if we can do anything about that,
because life just moves that fast nowadays. But I think
before you know, leaving in a combat zone or leaving
an employment like we've got we've got National Guard members
all over the place having some type of stand down
before they leave, before they go there. I know we
do the yellow ribbons and we do a lot of
that stuff like that, But I think commanders need to
take a hard look and I think Staphane shoves and

(36:52):
nco is take a hard look at your platoons and
have those conversations.

Speaker 6 (36:56):
Have a guid of discussion. We have folks and see it.
Just get a thermometer, checks thee other and whatever. I mean,
that's all I can really do. I think building connection
is key. Though.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Do you think that the connection between each other is
enough or do you think that connection needs to be
encouraged between the families as well.

Speaker 6 (37:14):
Yeah, so great question.

Speaker 9 (37:16):
So I think we're not really tall how to communicate
very well with our with our spouses, okay, and so
one of the things I do with a yellow ribbon
and the spouse has there.

Speaker 6 (37:25):
We talk about connection a lot of times. We're going
down range, we're getting ready to go down range. We're
very focused. We're highly focused, super focused on the mission,
what we're doing.

Speaker 9 (37:34):
And then we're down range for nine months to a
year or whatever. We're super focused on all that. It's
hard to translate all of that back and be able
to have that conversation with the spouse or with the kids.
You know, I think professionally, what I could have done
better as a marine, it's just done simple things like

(37:54):
I just told my wife how much.

Speaker 6 (37:56):
I appreciate her more for what she did while I
was gone. See, I was.

Speaker 9 (38:00):
Playing marine down range while she was at home, taking
care of the kids, taking them a daughter's appointments, taking
the baseball football practice, make sure y'are was doing all
the things that I was normally doing when I was there,
and I'd forgotten about that, and I just forgot to
tell her thank you, you know. And I think when
you when you get back, I don't you know. I

(38:23):
think there's a way we can help soldiers and family
members connect on a higher level as far as not just.

Speaker 6 (38:29):
Hey, how you doing connect?

Speaker 9 (38:31):
I mean, I really had those deep conversations and hey,
I'm feeling a certain kind of way I'm glad you
did this, or I'm glad you did that, or.

Speaker 6 (38:37):
Just just simply telling somebody thank you. I think we're
we might be missing a vote on that.

Speaker 7 (38:43):
Of course, I'm not a vet. Jason here.

Speaker 8 (38:45):
He's definitely a VET, but like my dad is a VET.
And when they're talking about all the stories that they're sharing,
it's interesting because like I can provide you the lens
of like a dependent being back home while their parent
is deployed and all that stuff is going on, and
like the worries and anxieties kind of that I have
built up, the fear of, like what could happen, you know,
to a parent when they're gone, you know, like if
you're what's constantly like going on? And this is just

(39:08):
kind of like the through the lens of like the
child I've always imagined you like the life of things,
what they could be, like what my dad.

Speaker 7 (39:16):
Could be experiencing, what he could be seeing.

Speaker 8 (39:19):
But then you know, like you hear the phone calls,
you know, then you'll see what's on TV, and you'll
kind of like put two and two together and be like, wow, Wow, this.

Speaker 7 (39:26):
Is like really happening, you know.

Speaker 8 (39:28):
And again like sometimes the conversations like back home like
are are shorter than others, you know, and it's just
like as a kid, you really don't understand what's happening.
But I think my dad he did prep me at
least well to be able to be like, hey, well
I'm leaving, you know, like so like you're gonna have

(39:49):
to step up, you know, like and do things. It
was it was a weird transition because you know, I
grew up in South Carolina and one of the things
that people really don't understand about, like being a child
of a military service member, you serve just the same
as they serve, you know, like so wherever wherever my
dad's job went, you know, like we had to follow.

Speaker 7 (40:11):
So imagine establishing you know, like your community, your tribe,
your identity, who you are, and.

Speaker 8 (40:17):
Then you know, having all that taken away from you,
so you leave everything that you know, your family, your community,
you're in imagine leaving the country. So now you're isolated
and you're like, hey, why am I doing this? You know,
things kind of change. You start getting used to that,
you know, like, hey, we get comfortable, build the roots,
build a community, and then it's time to leave again, right.

Speaker 7 (40:37):
Three years in Japan, five years in Korea.

Speaker 8 (40:41):
Then they moved back to Japan by and by now
you know, like I'm grown, you know, like I graduated
high school, moved back to the States, I'm going to college, Meanwhile,
they're still doing you know, they're hopping. My life is
still progressing, but like I still don't have the community,
the family, the roots, because I've already been uprooted from that.
So that's kind of just like my lens. But that's

(41:05):
not even you know, calculating, like the worries, the constant
worry of like, hey, well my dad he's gone, he's
over there in the war zone. He might not come back.
You know, Like these are things that are constantly on
your mind. You try to do your best, you know,
not to think about it, especially if you have a
big family, you know, but you know, put on a
brave face for your mom because you can only imagine
what she's going through.

Speaker 7 (41:25):
So it's kind of like carrying the weight of like everything.

Speaker 5 (41:28):
You know.

Speaker 8 (41:29):
And I don't know if like every child feels like that,
but I bet you know, if you looked up the statistics,
you feel me And if you implemented a survey, I
guarantee you like every single military child, you know, they
can they can relate with this feeling.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
Do you have any resentment for like your upbringing?

Speaker 8 (41:44):
MM, that's a very very good question, to be honest,
I'm conflicted and I think it's really right on Q
and right on schedule because while I was blessed to
be able to like travel the world and experience some
various different cultures and you know kind of like live
financially free, you know, like again like I kind of
live with spoiled lifestyle, but I I don't know kind

(42:07):
of what is better, you know, living that lifestyle and
then having to come back to like reality around they
of check and then like things not being the way
that they were growing up, you know, like so like relearning,
re establishing like who you are where you fit in.
So yeah, I think that was really really huge, like
it's always been missing in my life. And so I

(42:27):
guess to answer your question, I I I don't think
I've built up resentment. Can't be mad at my parents,
you know, I can't be mad, you know, like at
my friends and at my family.

Speaker 7 (42:37):
You know, like this isn't they're doing.

Speaker 8 (42:39):
So it's kind of like I'm I've been angry at
the military this whole time, right, if I'm just gonna be.

Speaker 7 (42:44):
Honest, it's just the culture of it.

Speaker 8 (42:45):
But they fail to realize like you have nothing, you know,
like that really makes up your identity with you by
the time you go through the process of like being
a military child, like there's nothing left. Don't get me wrong,
there are a lot of programs you know that that
try to help, uh simply put what we are experiencing
even nowadays and not kind of like related back to
this job and what we do most of the services,

(43:09):
right that we're telling these service members to go out
for these veterans to go out to right, Uh, they're
getting serviced by a civilian, you know, like who has
no idea you know, like what background they come from
or like really what problems they might be experiencing, like
really the depth of like the military family. And so
while the blueprint you know, like for services may adequately
fit you know, like your normal family. Uh, there are

(43:31):
definitely factors that that really you know, like relate to
the m to the military family that are just not
simply being met.

Speaker 7 (43:40):
And so yeah, there's not a lot.

Speaker 8 (43:42):
Uh, but again, like this is kind of one of
the reasons why, uh we're doing what we're doing, cause
we have to we have.

Speaker 7 (43:47):
To change that.

Speaker 8 (43:48):
Like there's a lot of misunderstanding, misrepretation, mis interpretation from
like civilians to the military community, and again the stigma
and all that is, it's it's kind of like the
stuff that we really have to like come back.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
So I had a question.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
There's a lot about prevention and resiliency and all of
our training, all the power points, and there's.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
Not a lot about dealing with people in crisis.

Speaker 6 (44:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
I don't know if that's something you deal with day
to day or.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Month to month either, But how do you prep yourself?

Speaker 3 (44:16):
What do you need to do?

Speaker 1 (44:18):
What is that like to be with somebody who's going
through that life or death crisis in that moment.

Speaker 6 (44:24):
So, you know, I had one yesterday.

Speaker 9 (44:25):
I think I told you all briefly this morning, good
buddy of minds support with Ramadi. Let me tell you this,
it's it's the outBut Apartmental Health's got a program called
peer support. And I'll say that to the masses out
there who have let's say you've you've recovered from alcohol
or you've lived through a mental health crisis and you've recovered,

(44:46):
I would challenge you to go through that five day
course and learn how to be a peer to somebody else.
And we're not the only like the military is picking
up on it, but the law enforcement community is picking
up on the.

Speaker 6 (44:57):
Peer program the peer programs.

Speaker 9 (45:00):
To help you have that tough conversation because you're not
gonna get that.

Speaker 6 (45:04):
Call at three o'clock in the afternoon.

Speaker 9 (45:05):
Most of time, it's gonna be like two in the morning,
Like what do you do?

Speaker 6 (45:08):
Who do you talk? You know, who do you call?
Who you talk to?

Speaker 9 (45:11):
And that's very critical. You know which route to go.
And I know we've got multiple numbers around here with
the EOC line, the nine eight A, with the one
for veterans and all that stuff, But how I go
about doing it? And I've taken multiple calls when I
work for Bradford and when I worked at even when
I worked at Black Rifle, I was still doing peer
recovery support, so I would get those calls with somebody
who's struggling with something. The number one thing you can

(45:33):
do is answer your phone. Answer your phone when somebody
calls you at two in the morning, answer the phone.
And the number two thing you can do, you know,
as a peer, I'm not there to give anybody advice.
I'm out there to tell you what you need to do.
I'm gonna share what worked for me. I'm gonna share
what I've been through, and a lot of people take
from those stories and go, yeah, I do want to
make a change. I can tell you're going to a treatment.

(45:54):
But you know, when you tell somebody to do something,
they don't listen. Right, They're just not gonna listen. You've
got to They bet to make it their own ideas.
So in that moment, let them just do the talking,
you know, share their story, man.

Speaker 6 (46:03):
Like, look I was.

Speaker 9 (46:04):
I was at the bottom of a barrel too, Man,
I get it. I had that bottle of my head
every night I was in that siloed by myself.

Speaker 6 (46:09):
I saw the same things replaying in my mind.

Speaker 9 (46:11):
I couldn't communicate with my wife, couldn't communicate my kids,
wanted to walk out. Like that's how I felt. Man,
I get it. And they end up feeling the same way,
and then before you know it, you've got a common ground. Look, man,
I went to treatment. This is where I went.

Speaker 6 (46:23):
This is what I did. I went to the VA,
you know, and they gave me a referral and.

Speaker 9 (46:28):
I went there for thirty days and I got treatment afterward,
and like I just kind of share my story, you know.
But like initially yesterday when when this marine called me
and he was having a crisis. It was a risk factory,
you know, relationships. It was barrel issues and he was
having an anxiety and I mean bathroom.

Speaker 6 (46:46):
They're like, I've never heard him like this before.

Speaker 9 (46:50):
And the first thing I said to him is, I
want you to go to the VA and making Georgia
right now, and I want you to go go to
the triage and mental health triage. And that's what I
tell somebody to have a crisis. You can go to
any emergency room. You can go to the VA that's
got an emergeny room if you've got a VA, but
get somewhere right away.

Speaker 6 (47:10):
Okay, So that's like but knowing the resources.

Speaker 9 (47:13):
So if you've got a National Guard member who has
got a veteran status.

Speaker 6 (47:16):
They can go to ANYBA, right they can go to.

Speaker 9 (47:18):
Any emergency room. If they've got insurance. They don't have insurance,
they still can go to amergeny room. Get them somewhere
or get to the house. Don't ever pass them.

Speaker 6 (47:25):
But it'll ever give somebody a number and tell them
a call.

Speaker 9 (47:28):
Like that's the like, my biggest gripe is when somebody said, yeah,
here's this number.

Speaker 6 (47:32):
Call then you do a warm handoff.

Speaker 9 (47:35):
If you call that person for them, get them on
a three way call, walk them through that. You will
be surprised how much of a difference that will make
because that builds trust. And I think the community partners
we have now that we're working with, and we had
this work just not too long ago with the Christ's
Intervention Team at the Huntsville Police Department and the Veteran
Recovery Team at the Huntsville BA. They contacted me they

(47:58):
had a veteranal site who was trying to commitsuer side
by cop. And the cop was in one of our
one of our classes we did UH for PTSD and anxiety,
and I said stay on the line and I pulled
in a servant shift from the Huntsville VA. He walked
down to doctor Swanner's office, who was the director of
psychiatry there, got him. They went out, got the guy,

(48:20):
brought him over and got him in. You got him
some help right away, actually took him over to the
mercery room in Huntsville. But it took everybody working together,
you know, because this thing could have gone the wrong.

Speaker 6 (48:29):
Direction quick with that police officer.

Speaker 9 (48:31):
Luckily that police officer was trained and how to handle
a veteran, you know. Uh So I think that's key.
I answer your phone, do a warm hand off of somebody,
and know the resources. And these five and one sees
a lot were great, but they're not open past five
o'clock and they're not going to answer the phone. So
you got another right people to call, and it's always
going to be your nine eight eight. A lot of
your police departments are going to have what's called crisis

(48:52):
intervention teams. If you will call your local police or
sheriff's apartment asked him, Hey, y'all have a peer support
of Christ's Intervention team. They can go out to this
house and do a check on one of my guys
or gals.

Speaker 6 (49:01):
They'll go out there and do it, and if they
know they're a vet or a service member, they'll know
how to act with them. So I think that's important.
And then following up with them, go visit them. You know,
they're getting some help. Man. It makes the world different.

Speaker 7 (49:13):
So yeah, I like to kind of like add on,
add on to that.

Speaker 8 (49:17):
I'm I receive calls, you know, like again, very very
frequently oftentimes people are.

Speaker 7 (49:23):
Just you know a little bit too worried or concerned about,
you know, like, am I going to say the right thing?
Am I gonna say the wrong thing?

Speaker 8 (49:30):
Oftentimes I'm approached, you know, like at when I do
go to get briefings on a drill weekend, you know,
someone might be like, hey, this person is or they
have been in this room, you know, like for for
the whole day, and I'm just like, well, uh, that's
not doing them any good, right, So I think just
showing up is number one. You know, Like you said,
the the worst thing that you can do is not

(49:52):
show up, you know. So uh, most people are just say, well, like,
don't go if you don't have to. My thing is like,
like Jason said, I'm not going to send you to
a number or a place, you know, like after a
certain hour, right if I don't trust it. You know,
if you say that you need help, you need help,
and there's probably a reason why they called you, right
or why you were called it's because they trust you.

(50:12):
They don't want to go see a random person at
a random place right after hours.

Speaker 7 (50:17):
Oftentimes all they want to do is just be heard
out right.

Speaker 8 (50:20):
So as Jason was saying, I think affirmation is what
I heard, right. They want to be affirmed like, hey,
knowledge what they're going through. Right, They're going through a
difficult time and right now they cannot see any endto it.

Speaker 7 (50:31):
Right.

Speaker 8 (50:32):
That's I've been there, you know, so I kind of
like understand like where the mental is when it's exhausted
all its resources. It's reached out as much as it can,
it's done all it knows, you know, like, and there's
literally no other options and that hopelessness right that there's
nothing else I can do. That's why it's important to
reach out beyond yourself because there's someone else that knows
more than you do. They know someone that you don't,

(50:54):
and your ability to tap into that resources right right,
that's that's a huge protective factor in itself, just knowing
that there is something, there's some sort of chance that
can help me out. There's some sort of remedy, some
sort of medication, some sort of treatment.

Speaker 7 (51:09):
Right.

Speaker 8 (51:10):
These people are like, hey, they're stuck in their head
and they want to know what their options are really,
you know, so reach out to someone. I would say,
going through suicide and experiencing a mental health crisis like
that is the equivalent of hell, right, And the thing
about saving people from hell is like you have to
you have to go back there, you know, if that
makes sense. And so like one of the things that

(51:31):
I've learned in this is like, hey, every single time
someone like talks about like what it is, it's like
I'm re experiencing, so like it's like the PTSD. So
it's kind of giving me a lens into it. And
so you have to be really really careful in minto
of like how your body is reacting, because like technically
you're taking yourself back to the place where you were
really to meet them where they are, you know, if

(51:52):
that makes sense.

Speaker 9 (51:53):
It takes jumping in the fighting hole with somebody. Somebody's
got the experience. When you can jump the fight in
hole with that military member or that first honor, that veteran,
you are reopening those wounds. And so I tell people
a lot of times that work in this business, man,
watch your boundaries. Okay, you want to help everybody some
and some got to learn to help themselves. And I've
dealt with a lot of veterans on the outside that

(52:13):
just you know what goes back to that habit thing.
They don't want to do, They want to argue about
the v air, They don't want to go. They don't
want to quit doing this. You know, you got to
work with them and meet them halfway. But you can't,
I think sometimes and the problem I has I took
on too much of other people's stuff, and it's it
can be very detrimental. And I experienced that burnout from

(52:35):
doing that. And so you know, I have to keep
my boundaries and I've got to keep my self.

Speaker 6 (52:38):
Care at top tip top shape. Like that's uh.

Speaker 9 (52:42):
I know when I when if I have one at
work where I'm dealing with somebody, I might go to
gym early. I'm sorry, guys, I'm shutting down.

Speaker 6 (52:49):
I gotta go.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (52:50):
And and Dais you know, he's good about it. He'll
see me, hey man, you okay, He'll check it on me.
I'll check it on him. So we're constantly doing that
with each other because in this field, you're putting a
lot of.

Speaker 6 (52:59):
Yourself out there. So your self care.

Speaker 9 (53:01):
Routine, you know, minds get up in the morning, hit
the gym. If I don't hit in the morning, I
hit in the afternoon, do some journaling, do some walking.

Speaker 6 (53:08):
I like the ruck. I love to hunt, love to
shoot my boat.

Speaker 9 (53:11):
I got into fly fishing with Operation Healing Waters this year.
So now I'm a fly fishing fanatic and a bunch
of veterans just get around talk and we get to
go fishing together. I mean, that's that's important because if
you're constantly just putting yourself out there not taking care
of yourself, you really can't help somebody.

Speaker 6 (53:26):
And so it's self care.

Speaker 9 (53:29):
It's probably one of the most important things you can
do for yourself, not only for what we do, but
just anything across the board.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
So yeah, you know, with all this brought it up
a couple of times, nast you specifically, you know, what
are we looking at numbers wise in the state?

Speaker 3 (53:43):
You know, are we better this year? We worse off
this year? You know what is what are we seeing.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
With an out of the National Guard? What are we
doing right? What are we doing wrong? What can leaders
do better? What can soldiers do better? What can the
state headquarters all the way down do better?

Speaker 8 (54:02):
To glad you asked this. So I've been excited really
to port these numbers. This is not really something that's
like official official, but again like as close to the
accurate numbers as we know. How of course, we still
have our great areas and we're trying to be like.

Speaker 7 (54:15):
Respectful, you know, like of the people.

Speaker 8 (54:17):
We're like, this could have been a potential case and
we might not have.

Speaker 7 (54:20):
All the insight.

Speaker 8 (54:22):
But we've basically been tracking these numbers I think since
twenty twenty two, since I got here, and I mean
like tracking attempts, ideations and completed suicides. I am holding
really the numbers of twenty twenty two versus twenty twenty three.
Miss Helena Young, our state BHO, she just emailed me
today the numbers for twenty twenty four.

Speaker 7 (54:41):
Everyone has been wondering, Hey, this is what we're doing working?
Is is it? Is it working?

Speaker 8 (54:46):
Let me let me tell you this first, by the
number across the board. If you just look like look,
if you look at National Guard, I can't really say
if we're making a dent in the numbers, right. That's
because people are looking at general statistics. However, you know,
if you look at Alabama and our numbers in what
they have been doing over the last year, they have

(55:07):
been decreasing significantly. Okay, And I'm just gonna share with
you a few things that we found in twenty twenty two.
In twenty twenty three, we basically have the trends of
all the data laid out. These are completed suicides, attempts,
and ideations. So in twenty twenty two, I think we
ended the year I think was six completed, right. That

(55:29):
was a year when we first established that stand down.

Speaker 7 (55:33):
That's kind of when I think.

Speaker 8 (55:34):
We started getting serious in air quotes, right, started getting
serious about suicide. We had like, I think five back
to back, I think in like within the span of
three months, right, And so that's the reason why we
started doing the standown. In November that year, we had
thirteen ideations and I'm not really sure how many attempts
we had officially by the paper right the following year

(55:56):
after that, though, the ideations they went up. Right now,
most people they would find that alarming, who were like, hey,
this is a bad thing that's going up now. The
fact is we were trying to get people to report
right when they were feeling you know. So the higher
this number is getting, that's a better thing, Which means
people are starting to access these resources, They're starting to

(56:16):
reach out.

Speaker 7 (56:18):
The environment is starting to get.

Speaker 8 (56:19):
A little bit more suitable for people to feel like, hey,
I can reach out when I do need help. The
amount of completed suicides we had officially were two, right,
So we went from six to two in the span
of a year. Okay, Now this is where things get
a little shaky because of the numbers when the fiscal
year begins and the official year starts. So we did

(56:41):
have two suicides. I think that sparked up the beginning
of this fiscal year. Officially, right, it was basically at
the end of the fiscal year of twenty three, beginning
of the fiscal year of twenty four, but I think
they were in October right Now, officially in our numbers
are basically reflecting that we've only had one official suicide
for the year of twenty twenty four, right, which means

(57:03):
that we've now went from six to two to one
pending you know, like us having a successful September into
early or late October. Right, But essentially what we're seeing
is there is about to be a full fiscal year
right where we have not had one completed.

Speaker 6 (57:20):
Right.

Speaker 8 (57:20):
You know, I don't want to get ahead of ourselves,
but I think that's that's showing that here in Alabama.
I can't speak for the GUARD as a whole, but
like here in Alabama, we're doing something where we figured
out something and I'm not going to say this is
the end of suicide. However, whatever it is that we
did for the last two or three years, apparently we
need to.

Speaker 6 (57:36):
Keep it up in our community.

Speaker 9 (57:38):
Partners is pushing this break to stigma kind of platform.
With the introduction of the tac DEC a few years ago,
we started getting you know, most veterans I think it
was like forty five percent we're not enrolled in VA
benefits who rated VA like the people just didn't they
didn't go. We're starting to seeing enrollments increase. We're starting
to see more people ask for help, which the VA

(57:58):
is like, oh wow, we're having when people come to
these our star programs who are VET centers now, and
so I think there is an increase. You know, we
talked about the ideation increase that is.

Speaker 6 (58:08):
A positive thing.

Speaker 9 (58:09):
That means you're you know, I think I just can't
keep thinking about yesterday because I'm so close.

Speaker 6 (58:13):
To this guy.

Speaker 9 (58:14):
Had he not call me, you know, That's all I
can think is he was in the samele tune that
we lost full in. I'm just thinking, like, damn, he
reached out and called me yesterday in a moment of
crisis like that. We got to be doing something right.
Something's happening, and you got to remember these things. Cultural
changes take a long period of time. It's not something
we can change overnight. You know, I don't if you
know the story of John Lister. I mean, we didn't

(58:35):
know that washing hands was a real thing in medicine.
It took it like twelve years and they go, oh
my god, we actually got to wash our hands when
we change you know, class or deliver babies. That's that
stops the spread diseases. It took years for that to change.
And so I think it's a cultural thing, and especially
with this culture, with the military and first responder community,
the way we've been for so long, to try to

(58:56):
change that, you know, and one PowerPoint brief, it's not
gonna happens a lot of time, and I think it
takes a lot of connection and understanding resources and what's
out there and what's available, and being involved, being engaged.
I'll speak to this one real quick. Engaged leadership is
the number one thing you can do in your unit.
Being an engaged leader, be a servant leader, get out

(59:17):
there and know your people. That's the first line of defense.
Prevention wise. We can teach residency prevention wise, we can
do agh training.

Speaker 6 (59:26):
Prevention wise, and do all these other things.

Speaker 9 (59:27):
At the end of the day, boots on the ground,
those NCOs, those young officers, those young commanders, I mean,
they've got they've got their thumb on the pulse in
the units. So just be mindful when you and I think.
Another thing too, is that we're hitting on big this
year is lethal means safety. You've got to add that
tough conversation. Eighty five percent of the suicide in Alabama

(59:48):
in twenty twenty two firearms were the main case.

Speaker 6 (59:52):
We've got a program right now.

Speaker 9 (59:53):
We're working with Governor kiv and the Alabama Challenge, the
Governor's Challenge on a program called Safer Together, and we're
working with local gun stores. We are developing a program
where a veteran or a military member or a first responder,
if they're if they're in transition, having just a time
in their life where maybe they don't need to have
that firearm next to them, maybe they need to still
that fire arm for little while while they when they

(01:00:15):
go seek mental health treatment, they can go take that
firearm into an FFL without fear because it's not a
red flag law, it's not a gun grab.

Speaker 6 (01:00:22):
This is without fear of losing your Second Amendment right
or losing your firearm.

Speaker 9 (01:00:25):
It's a voluntary, temporary confidential program. They can simply walk
into a gun store drop their weapon off for a
certain period of time. There's a five oh one sea
called Beard of Warriors that's involved. They have a peer
support program and a peer from Bear Warriors. We'll reach
out to that veteran, that first responder and then help
them navigate the system.

Speaker 6 (01:00:42):
Whatever they might need. Whatever risk factory are.

Speaker 9 (01:00:45):
Dealing with, whether it's relationship, finances, marriage, whatever it's contributing
to the mental health, they can help out with that.
So right now, we've got a bill that we're working
in the House and the Senate to get passed to
protect the FFL, to protect the gun store owners. We
hope to be able to release the name publicly here
soon of the bill. We're actually going to name the
bill after a marine and a soldier who committed suicide

(01:01:07):
a couple of years ago. They're from Alabama, so I'm
hoping we get named that bill after those two young men,
you know, not forget their families, and then utilize that
as a platform to build more awareness about lethal means
and not just firearms.

Speaker 6 (01:01:22):
We got to talk about medication too.

Speaker 9 (01:01:24):
We know opiates is a big thing, pain pills, all
those things, and there's more prescription medication the homes now today.

Speaker 6 (01:01:31):
Than ever before.

Speaker 9 (01:01:32):
I think it was some of my eight billion prescriptions
were filled last year in America. I mean, it's just
the stuff's everywhere. So I think it's just get building awareness,
building the options, you know, and just keep communicating the
same message through and through.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
So Jason Darius, thank you both so much for everything
that you're doing for our community, for those of us
who are currently serving, for those of us who have
exited the military. Sometimes after we deal with a lot,
it's really easy to just take a step back and
be like, hey, that's not really my problem anymore. But
each of you have stepped up to the plate.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
And again, if you are a loved one are struggling,
please reach out, find support, get help, regardless if you're
a veteran, currently serving, or even just a friend. We'll
be posting links to resources in the episode subscription.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Sergeant Hearn, I'm really interested. Though I never got the
actual name of that song. That touched for Sergeant Ray.
What was that?

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
The song we heard in the episode was a dogio
for strings by Samuel Barber, a nineteen thirty six composition.
First Sergeant Ray says that he first heard that song
in the movie Platoon.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
We just want to say a big thank you to
everyone who took the time to come talk with us
on our podcast, and also to staff Sergeant Thomas Berlow
for doing.

Speaker 7 (01:02:42):
All of the music for this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Thanks again for listening to ag R.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
I'll am a guard Radio.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
You know, as we get more efficient at recording these
we're hoping to get them out faster and faster. That way,
we can actually be on a recording schedule, and I'm
not gonna lie keeping up with these deadlines.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Well, you've got to pardon my praise, but the pucker
factor is quite hot.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
We'll get you next time.